You can pre-order The United States v. I. Lewis Libby here.
One of the several issues that may spark fireworks and the disclosure of new information at Scooter Libby's sentencing tomorrow is the question of Valerie Plame Wilson's status as an undercover CIA officer. That she was covert in the real-world, CIA sense has now been established beyond any doubt. But since Patrick Fitzgerald is arguing that Libby's sentence should be enhanced because he obstructed an investigation of a serious potential crime, the violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act, there is likely to be dispute over whether Plame was a "covert agent" in the IIPA's peculiar definition of the term, which requires service abroad in the five years before the officer's cover was blown, as it was when at least four senior Bush administration officials disclosed Plame's CIA employment to reporters in June-July 2003. Fitzgerald has now made public his conclusion that Plame's covert work abroad qualified as service abroad and therefore she qualified as a "covert agent" under the IIPA. Not surprisingly, the defense is holding to the view that "service abroad" requires that the under cover officer be "stationed" abroad, and therefore that Plame did not qualify for protection under the IIPA.
Last week I showed how, regardless of the disposition of that issue, Fitzgerald's new disclosure that investigators concluded early on that Plame was covert under the IIPA demolished one of the main arguments of critics of his investigation and prosecution of Libby from the right. Because the meaning of "service overseas" in the IIPA definition of a covert agent has never been settled, people will continue to contest what it means and therefore whether the fact that Plame, as the unclassified summary of her career and cover history that Fitzgerald disclosed last week indicated, did intelligence work under cover overseas on seven occasions in the period before her outing qualifies. But what cannot be disputed is that investigators arrived at the conclusion that it did and therefore determined that a violation of IIPA could well have happened. And as I said, there's no reason to doubt that Fitzgerald and investigators came to that perfectly reasonable conclusion in good faith. Part of what I meant is that it's transparent that their understanding of the law was that "service abroad" meant that the relevant officer – Plame, here – had done covert work overseas, without the demand that it be of any lengthy duration in any given instance. Toensing had led the charge that the investigation proceeded without a basis because, Plame not counting as covert, the underlying statute could not conceivably have been violated and Fitzgerald knew it. But that turns out to be factually incorrect.
This seems to have sent the leading conservative commenter on the leak investigation, Tom Maguire, around the bend, and he has now summed up and modified his response to Fitzgerald's disclosures (and my argument) with the claim that Fitzgerald did not proceed in good faith because . . . the CIA did not include information about Plame's pension arrangement in the unclassified summary of her career and cover history they prepared and which Fitzgerald gave to the defense in June 2006, after having it approved by Judge Walton who had access both to the classified materials it was meant to summarize and the summary itself.
Let me explain.
To make a long story short, it turns out the CIA tracks employees' service abroad for the purposes of pension calculations. So, Maguire argues, Plame's personnel file should tell whether the travel abroad in the five years before her cover was blown by the Bush administration was counted by the CIA as "service abroad." The more appropriate question, of course, would be whether it should be included, regardless of whether it was or not – it could have been left out mistakenly. But fair enough.
Now, it may well be useful to consider whether the CIA's standard way of proceeding would be to include the kind of covert work abroad that Plame did in the five years before the Bush administration blew her cover in its pension calculations, though it's far from clear that this should be controlling in the interpretation of the IIPA, as Maguire seems to suggest (and I'll come back to this). And we don't know whether the CIA in fact recorded Plame's temporary travel duty abroad in the five years before her outing as service abroad for her pension calculations. But Maguire is not content to just raise the question. He wants to accuse Fitzgerald of impropriety for withholding that information from the defense:
IF Ms. Plame's formal dates for service abroad buttress the prosecution position, that should be disclosed to the defense so that they will not waste time pursuing a false trail, or so that the prosecution can prepare arguments that the CIA formal procedures do not comport with the language and intent of the IIPA. On the other hand, if her formal dates for service abroad support the defense position, that should be disclosed so that the defense can argue that this represents the best established practice and settles the issue.
But it is simply not appropriate for Fitzgerald to unilaterally conceal this from the defense, especially when it is a reasonable guess that it was concealed because it would aid the defense.
Now, it could well be that in the context of tomorrow's hearing, Fitzgerald has something to say about this. But the idea that Fitzgerald was nefariously withholding this crucial information from the defense is ludicrous. In defense of that accusation Maguire says,
it is safe to say that Fitzgerald was not eager to present Ms. Plame's employment background – maybe an embarrassment with her dates of service was part of the reason.
It couldn't possibly be that he was not eager to present her employment background because, well, it was classified information about work she did under cover, including overseas. But in reality, one need not think that Plame was the secretest of undercover officers to imagine that might explain Fitzgerald's reluctance. And let's recall what Judge Walton said in June 2006 after reviewing the classified information that the summary summarized:
Upon careful review of the government's requests, it supporting declarations from the intelligence community filed ex parte, in camera, and the original documents from which the summaries were created, the Court finds that the documents and information identified in the government's Section 4 CIPA filing are extremely sensitive and their disclosure could cause serious if not grave damage to the national security of the United States.
Walton also observed:
In addition, the proposed unclassified substitutions are more than sufficient to address any obligation the government might have to produce the underlying classified documents and information to the defense.
Now, Tom can rest his new defense on the notion that this was in a different legal context from the one we are considering now, and in fact it could be either that the judge smacks down Fitzgerald's efforts to introduce the notion of a possible underlying IIPA violation at this stage, or forces Fitzgerald to produce some proof of his assertion that Plame was covert under the IIPA. But by that very token, the notion that Fitzgerald proceeded in bad faith earlier falls apart, as does the notion that Fitzgerald did not reach the conclusion that Plame was covert in good faith.
But it is a notion we may hear about at tomorrow's hearing, since, though Maguire is not himself a part of the vast Libby defense empire, he asked one of his frequent commenters, Clarice Feldman, who is a lawyer and the "chief investigative correspondent" for the American Thinker, to convey the information to Libby's defense, which she is evidently advising or at least in touch with.
Or maybe not. Because in fact, in going around this bend and embracing the idea that Valerie Plame Wilson's pension calculations contain the key to determining whether she was covert or not, Maguire seems to have completely abandoned both the defense's position and the position held by Toensing, Thompson, the WSJ editorial page and many others. The defense position is that Plame would need to have been "stationed" abroad. Similarly, Toensing et al claim that Plame would have to have some kind of permanent assignment abroad. But now Tom is telling us that Valerie Plame's pension benefits track her service abroad.
We'll see tomorrow.
Update: Check out Marcy's excellent post on the likely role President Bush played in helping to start the chain of events that led to OVP's blowing of Plame's cover. Libby learned of Bush's interest in the 16 words and Nicholas Kristof's month-old column on the Niger story on June 9, in the wake of Condoleezza Rice's fairly disastrous appearance on the morning talk shows the day before. The day Bush expressed that interest, OVP undertook extensive research into the Niger story, and shortly thereafter Cheney and Libby learned that Wilson's wife worked on the clandestine side of the CIA, and, well, the rest is not yet quite history. This is Marcy's original insight, but rest assured it is reflected in the Libby trial book's extensive editorial apparatus.
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first!
second
third
7th!!!
Never could count worth a crap…
nth!! (that way I don’t need to count)
OT: NYT reports that a military judge just dismissed the case against Gitmo defendant Khadr. Broad implications for the whole f*ing mess down there.
Jeebus, is there any way to get this line of non-thinking shut down? (Just to save our over-parsed brains, you understand.)
Aren’t they almost to the point of counting angels on pinheads to determine the answer to this question?
And if Miss Vickie wants the credit for the IIPA (why?), she also has to take the blame for its lack of clarity.
Valerie Plame Greeted By Standing Ovation At Book Expo
Scooter ought to just bite-the-bullet and show he has at least the cojones of Paris Hilton and go to jail.
This is a new one on me. I’m a Federal employee and this is the first time I’ve seen any mention of the pension system tracking where (as in what country) the employee worked?
I know the payroll system has to know where you are to figure the taxes to be withheld, but I’ve never heard of doing it for the pension system.
I find this pretty hard to swallow. CIA agent undercover (NOC) is going to be compromised by pension records that state where and when she was abroad? Giving the HR department notice of where she was, what she was working on, and when? Wouldn’t there have been some other shorthand code? And wouldn’t such information be guarded closely (for really obvious reasons?).
Hmmm 16-count indictment against Jefferson in the runup to Libby sentencing? They must be expecting the book to be thrown at Scooter.
Oooh, Brisingam…I was wondering if you and other Federal workers (TiredFed I mean YOU) would chime in on this… Reading Jeff’s piece made my head hurt (NOT because of Jeff’s writing mind you!!!) but because of the twisted logic these people will use to try to avoid saying they were wrong and they screwed up.
I’m not sure what “service abroad” would have to do with pension calculations. I think “salary earned” is what drives pension calculations…my mom and father in law’s pensions are based on income invested into the plan over a period of years, not where they worked…
Possibly some sort of “hazardous duty” provision that lets you retire earlier or something?
fox expresses concerns about Clusterfuck bein stolen by aliens:
On Monday, Fox News covered Vladimir Putin’s threat that if the US government goes ahead with setting up a missile defense shield in Eastern Europe, Russia will target its own missiles at European targets.
The discussion led to an unlikely reversal of political positions, with conservative Fox political analyst Tammy Bruce describing the situation as “another glaring example of the growing incompetency of the Bush administration and his foreign policy,” while Democratic strategist Bob Beckel concluded that “I support Bush on this … and it’s a strange day when I do that.”
Bruce began by defending Putin and asked how we in the US would feel if Russian missiles were sited in Cuba or Honduras. She pointed out that the US missiles in the Czech Republic and Poland are supposedly intended to guard against the threat of potential Iranian long-range missiles, even though those missiles don’t yet exist and we’ve said we’re not going to allow Iran to develop them.
She then blew up about immigration and Iraq as well, saying, “I’m waiting to find the space aliens that kidnapped the president that I grew to admire after September 11 and left this tool behind. … I’m furious.”
Larry Johnson explained the pension summary and overseas calculations here.
So the amount of time overseas can affect an employees retirement date. And he slams McGuire too. :)
Prairie Sunshine @ 12
Jefferson indictments in place=”Look over there! Bright shiny object!” Plus “See! They ALL do it.” Cuz as we all know one Dem doing it equals a dozen Redubyacans…
I wondered about the Jefferson indictment too. Don’t they usually do these things on Friday afternoons? Oh, that’s when Republics are being indicted, Jefferson’s a Dem so Monday morning it is!
Martha @13:
Exactly! For Federal retirement (CSRS or FERS) your pension is calculated on your “high three” (3 years of your highest income). It doesn’t have a bloody thing to do with where you were for those 3 years.
We also have the Thrift Savings Plan, which is the Federal equivalent of a 401(k), and while the government matches a certain percentage of the employee’s contribution, again location is not involved.
The more I think about this, the more contrived that arguement seems. I can’t believe the pension plan would track where an NOC was working.
Will Judge Walton:
Reward Loyalty to the President or Punish Obstruction of Justice?
Firepups wanna know! I’ve just made my sixth consecutive monthly contribution of $25.07 to support FireDogLake’s history-making Live-blogging, insightful articles and the best commentarial analysis in the Blogosphere – and it feels great!
Please join Jane and Marcy for Libby Sentencing Live-blogging from Judge Walton’s DC Courtroom on Tuesday!
And Please Donate Today!
[RBG Note; There’s really no need to go there.]
i should know this already… but what time are meeting here to “watch” the libby sentencing (via marcy and jane’s eyes)?
thanks! (been paying way too much attention to the congressional hearing schedule and not enough to other schedules).
TheOtherWA @ 18
this is a blow to teh goopers, now they can’t whine that the DEMOCRAT Jefferson is getting away with corruption and crime.
TheOtherWA @ 16
Emphasis mine — they track “TIME” overseas, not where the agent was — that makes sense. And when you consider that 20 years = 240 months, it wouldn’t be hard to rack up 60 months of overseas duty over the course of a career.
Brisingamen @ 19
what if the pay rate differs when abroad, kinda like hazard pay? It actually makes sense to me, but it has been a while since I was Paymaster General.
AZ Matt @ 9
But he doesn’t. He is, after all, a Bushie.
P J Evans @ 7
I completely agree with the last point here, and the whole thing is well taken – my basic point is that you’re just not going to be able to show that Fitzgerald’s determination that Plame was covert under IIPA was made in anything other than good faith, even if it were eventually to turn out that his interpretation of “service abroad” is not the one that courts settle on definitively.
And you should check out Toensing’s congressional testimony, where she basically acknowledges that the statute is ambiguous at best in some of its terminology, and then blames the media for the ambiguity.
Elliott @ 24
That would show up in the “high 3″ calculation, and I’d be willing to bet that the pay IS higher when you’re overseas. You might even get some housing compensation on top of the pay.
Who cares if Valerie was “covert ” Scooter a high White house offical said she worked in the CIA I’m guessing NOBODY thought she was the cleaning lady. Raise your hands if when Scooter said Valerie Palme worked at the CIA you jumped to the conclusion she was a spy. There are enough people who hate the CIA that “outing ” her DOES POSE a threat to her family. I know Scooter, Fred Thompson and the Neo Cons all think Scooter did nothing wrong after all aside from loosing her job where is the harm? Maybe Scooter will come to understand this example, I wonder if Scooter would like to go to Paris France and be “outed ” as a CIA agent in a city with a Very Angry about the Iraq war 10% muslim population.
If there is a comparison to the private pension system, then the pension plan for the CIA may define an employee classification as being entitled to a certain pension, or, for that matter, being entitled to a pension at all. That clssification would be defined in the plan itself. That would be a justification for referring to the pension plan.
Pensions are (sigh!) my life.
-MS
OK I just read the Larry Johnson’s take-down of Maguire and I get it now. It does sound sort of like a “combat pay” multiplier. I’ll repeat the obvious–they are pathetic in their unwillingness to just admit they screwed up.
I really, really like the neologism montag invented over at Larry’s for people like Tom Magoo: dyslexpert.
> It couldn’t possibly be that he was not eager
> to present her employment background because,
> well, it was classified information about work
> she did under cover, including overseas.
It really and truly does not seem to have sunk in to these Radical Wingnuts that Plame’s cover, including her marriage to Wilson [1] and her travels as a “trailing spouse”, was very carefully constructed to provide multiple layers of indirection and misdirection. And that neither the CIA nor Fitzgerald are going to want to give any more information out about that cover than Libby, Cheney, and Bush have already blown because it still might be operative.
Cranky
[1] Note that I am not implying that Plame married Wilson as part of her job – I don’t know the couple or anything about their relationship.
Brisingamen @ 19
I think that what they’re saying is that the payroll records would show a bump in the pay (bonus or whatever the official term is) for periods when the agent was working somewhere out of the US, thus establishing that, as far as the CIA was concerned, this was officially “service abroad.”
Damn wingnuts. This is all for them. I was over at Maquires site the other day. Love to see what their evil minds are up to. Just keep grasping at those straws. They are pathetic weaving all these stories to cover scooters ass and to smear Fitz. I hope they throw the book at him tomorrow.
radiofreewill @ 20
Done deal!
Bob in HI
why wouldn’t Fitz just ask Judge Walton to take judicial notice of the letter written by Michael Hayden to the SJC(?) that Ms. Plame was, indeed, a covert agent?
Michael in Park Slope @ 30
Actually, the CIA’s pension system is identical to the one at HHS, I just checked the Office of Personnel Management’s website. The “can retire at age 50″ set-up is very similar to the one our investigators are under. (Our guys MUST retire by age 55.)
No matter how much time Cooter gets, he’ll spend no more than one year in his country club prison before he’s pardoned.
Meanwhile, his serial killer Boss Hawg will continue to roam free, terrorizing the world and his hunting buddies as the Poster Boy of Justice Refuted.
martha @ 13
I realize the writing is sort of convoluted here. The subject defied my meager abilities to be clear. But at least it’s accurate.
I would love to know just how the IIPA was constructed/written, by whom, and why. Also, is it still true that only one person has been convicted under it? Interesting law that has only managed to get one person convicted in a quarter century.
If Scooter is convicted does he get to keep his pension?
Oh Jeff–I wasn’t being critical of you AT ALL…it’s those irritating people that are just driving me insane. You took their ranting rambling and made it coherent. You are a better person than I *g* (and more patient…)
selise -
Kick-off is at 9:30 a.m. in Courtroom 16 tomorrow.
Jeff – my remarks were not meant as a criticism of your article. I’ll be retiring in less than 5 years, so I’ve become much more aware of the Federal pension system.
Sparkles the Iguana @ 41
I don’t know many of the details of who wrote it, but we did learn from Toensing’s congressional testimony that, contra the suggestion of her previous public statements, which made it sound like she really played the pivotal role in drafting it, there were already drafts and there had been hearings by the time she got involved as a Senate staffer. But she played some role in the ongoing redrafting of it.
And yes, it appears that it’s only been used once.
And I will add that there are some people, such as Christopher Hitchens, who think the law is really bad – and I think his view on that can be divorced from his rather nasty and personalized hatred of the Wilsons. I hold no brief for the statute per se, one way or the other. I don’t even hold any brief for Fitzgerald. But if you’re going to criticize him, it has to be because he does the job of the aggressive federal prosecutor all too well, not because he fails at it. Maguire et al should take it up with the criminal justice system, and not with the person who is by all accounts outside the Libby defense unit one of the best, if not the best, federal prosecutors in the country.
Sparkles the Iguana @ 41
I’d not be at all surprised to find that the IIPA really was written by Miss Victoria Toestink and that the law has lain unused all these years. Its purpose seems to be specifically to allow betrayers of CIA NOCs to get off.
lolo @ 34
and some tomatoes, too. No, wait, blueberry pie.
things come undone @ 41
Well he’s already been convicted, but interesting question. Here in Illinois Gov. Ryan’s pension has been taken away from him (in the case PJF’s office prosecuted).
pow wow @ 44
Another early morning on the left(y) coast! Thanks for the update.
martha @ 43
I got it, and I appreciate that. I’m criticizing me, gently.
And I do find Maguire entertaining and engaging on the Plame stuff, it’s true. He certainly knows way way more about it and understands it better than the overwhelming majority of folks on the right who comment on it.
Apparently scoots has no financial problems- he’s rollin in it. He did what he did out of pure love of gooperism not for financial gain.
If the potential IIPA-violation stays alive, then Shooter’s gone.
When Roachman pulled the insta-declassification shenanigans to make Wilson’s wife ‘fair game,’ he waved a wand he didn’t have – and now he’s exposed.
Judge Walton knows if this is an IIPA-violation, or not. If he thinks it is, then I wouldn’t be surprised to see him sweep Scooter out of the way – with a 37 month sentence and no leniency – and level his finger right at Shooter tomorrow.
Cheney recklessly, capriciously crossed the line to ‘out’ a WMD-issues Intelligence Asset (and her front company) – then propped his punk Libby in front of him to catch bullets – and now we’ll find out what the message will be from the Judiciary.
I don’t think Judge Walton will ‘look away’ from the – obstructed – underlying crime in his sentencing tomorrow.
rwcole @ 52
Imagine just the fee he got from Marc Rich for the 2001 Clinton pardon.
Can’t see how a judge could declare someone else guilty who wasn’t at trial- but it would be fun if he did.
pow wow @ 43
thank you! meet you-all here then…
TeddySanFran @ 47
I don’t think that’s quite true. But it is true that folks like Toensing do seem committed to the view that if, say, an undercover CIA officer is in Jordan tracking down aluminum tubes and such (which Isikoff and Corn’s book reported Plame in fact did), and meeting with sources and others there, but she’s only there for ten days at a time; and while she’s there, someone who has learned via classified information that that person was a covert CIA officer outs her publicly – then the person who blew her cover, causing who knows what trouble for her and her sources, has not violated the IIPA. Which seems odd. Which again is not to take a view one way or the other on the propriety of the law altogether.
I wonder if Fred Thompson will be in court tomorrow, and can somebody please throw a bucket of pig slop in his face? (only in the most peaceful, nonviolent way)
These semantic contortions are truly becoming tiresome. Are they really trying to argue that it’s okay to betray a covert CIA agent who lives in the US and travels overseas in her capacity as a covert CIA agent, but it’s not okay to betray a covert CIA agent who lives overseas? Is there a single law-and-order conservative out there who will stand up and say, “You know, that sort of interpretation of the law is just plain stupid.”?
TeddySanFran @ 46
Larry Johnson has written a few posts about the IIPA and who was actually involved. She had a minor part. I am sure it is in his archives.
What the hell makes this goofball maguire think the defense was not aware of this? Odds are the Libby defense was fully aware of this information. At the worst, the court would have indicated that it was in possession of certain evidence controlling on the point. That is what happens when there are “ex parte in camera” submissions like happened here. Does Maguire base his whole moronic hypothesis on the thought that because the Libby team never publically announced they knew of this, they truly did not know? Note how Libby addressed this issue in their sentencing papers; they have parsed it totally on the thought that she wasn’t “stationed” overseas. Nowhere do they make arguments consistent with Maguire’s tripe. And one more little nugget for Mr. Maguire, the reason the Libby defense team never mentioned knowing anything is specifically to keep blathering trolls like Maguire out there spewing disingenuous BS. Maguire is a freaking idiot.
The defense argument is going to be great if it passes. Nobody will be held accountable when non-permanent covert CIA employees go abroad for an assignment of less than a few years? Sheesh! What are these people thinking.
Fitzy said that he couldn’t convict Libby of the spy outing charge cause Libby threw sand in his eyes about MOTIVE. So he apparently had no trouble proving that Libby outed Plame- but had trouble proving WHY he did it.
martha @ 13
well, since you asked, my 2 cents: Laws governing CIA pensions and CIPA are completely separate and there is no reason to think one governs the other. Congress tends to define terms within specific statutes, either by direct language, or in the Congressional Record. My understanding is, CIPA quite clearly defines requirements for “being stationed outside the US” for other purposes, and the absence of the same terminology in this section, the one that governs the treasonous act of disclosing an agent’s identity (not her name, her identity) means Congress did NOT intend for “service outside the US” to mean living outside the US. TDY (temporary duty) = stationed in my book. If she got per diem, she was “stationed.” JMO
Frank Probst @ 58
Law and Order conservative – hmmmm….nobody’s coming to mind…..wait…..no. False alarm.
Frank Probst @ 59
Ah for the good ol’ days, when it only depended on what the meaning of “is” is….
Great write-up Jeff. Thanks to you, I found myself wandering further afield in wingnuttia, and stumbled across this by Clarice Feldman–haven’t laughed so hard in a long time. Particularly at this bit of hilarity:
Hard to know how to begin to respond–and apparently this person is a lawyer!
Sparkles the Iguana @ 58
Fred’s support of Scooter could be his Bill Frist Terry Schiavo moment especially if any new information comes out after Scooter is sentenced or Valerie’s book comes out!
TiredFed @ 64
TiredFed, what do you want to bet the travel orders and vouchers are classified? But yeah, per diem = TDY = stationed does seem logical to me.
jayt @ 37 – The government did include the whole Waxman Oversight Committee hearing transcript as one of the exhibits to its Sentencing Guidelines Calculation filing. That transcript includes Waxman reading off the General Hayden-approved language about Plame’s covert status, as well as Valerie’s own sworn testimony about her job obviously. And they also specifically point to Valerie’s testimony in the main body of their sentencing filing(s).
As far as I’m concerned, the plain language of the IIPA statute as to “covert agent” status has absolutely been met in Valerie’s case, based on the details now in the public record, and it would be up to any naysayers to prove otherwise in court. It is not up to the prosecution to justify to bad faith critics its straightforward utilization of the IIPA’s plain language as written, in the process of performing its duty to uphold the laws of the land.
Brisingamen @ 28
NOTE: Overseas pay, that is pay above your base pay that substitutes for the ‘locality pay’ you get while working stateside does not count toward your retirement. Many people come back from overseas to put in their last three years here in the states in order to have the locality pay boost their retirement.
Whatya know, I was right for once.
Let me excerpt what I wrote on my blog right after Fitz told the world that Valerie was, in fact, Covert;
snip
http://ornerybastard.blogspot.com/
I have to thank Jane and Christy, LHP, Emptywheel,Mary and so many others for enlightening me.
It’s great being able to spot check these fuckers.
Hi Sparkles #41,
IIRC, the IIPA was written as a reaction to the book written by former CIA officer Phillip Agee, “Inside the Company”, in which the identities of several covert operatives were revealed. One of these, the chief-of-station in Greece (I forget his name) was subsequently killed. Bush 41 referred to those who revealed the identities of covert agents as “the most insidious of traitors”.
radiofreewill @ 53
I think that Walton really doesn’t know if she was covert. He’s said as much in court, iirc.
But the insta-declassification defense won’t help Libby. If he tries to argue that he remembers Dick Cheney telling him he used his insta-declassification powers to declassify Plame so that Libby could blab her identity to Miller and Cooper, he is essentially admitting to Walton that he is absolutely guilty of the crimes he was convicted of (lying about when and how he learned Valerie Plame worked at the CIA).
My strong suspicion is that Dick Cheney tried to tell Pat Fitzgerald that the Vice-President can declassify the covert status of people he doesn’t like, just for spite. He may have even told Fitz to go fuck himself. I further believe that Fitz’s response was that (a) the Vice-President does not have that authority to begin with, and (b) even if he DID have that authority, there is absolutely no evidence that Dick Cheney ever actually USED that authority to declassify Plame (including the testimony of Libby himself). I think that the Shooter tried to get cute with Fitz, and in response, Fitz nailed his right-hand man to the wall. That would explain Fitz’s not-so-subtle jabs at Cheney in his filings.
OT-on Hardball-Bob Shrum is a weasel.
If I knew someone who worked for the CIA, I would NEVER mention that they were working there to anyone else.
Years ago I was attending a party and one of the attendees mentioned that I worked for Social Security to another party-goer. Whereupon the party-goer attempted to “mock” choke me and scared me half-to-death. Seems he was trying to get disability benefits from SSA.
If someone could get that upset at an SSA employee, I don’t want to think about what they might do to one who works for the CIA!
bmaz @ 61
I’ll do you one better: Forget about what Libby’s lawyers know and just think about what Libby himself knows. On the off-chance that he didn’t know Valerie Plame’s status BEFORE he betrayed her identity to Judy Miller and Matt Cooper, do you think there’s any chance that he didn’t check on her status AFTER the fact? We already know that Addington gave him a copy of the IIPA. Do you think there’s ANY chance that he didn’t check to see if Plame met all the criteria?
Good to see the new book, at the head of the post. My reading tells me that Murray Waas wrote the introduction, and the book is a collection of testimony, etc. Is that right?
I again (as in last thread) late in the game call attention to the extraordinary Murray Waas piece on Todd Graves, the 9th fired USA, over at Huffpo. Waas departs from his usual extraordinary journalism (at the end of the post is a link to his last piece, which breaks down the Rove/Hearn background to Missouri/Graves/Schlozman for tomorrow’s oversight hearing) to show the personal side of Graves’ excellence and commitment to justice as a USA. Weird to read Waas break out the heavy emotional artillery, but all the more powerful because of its rarity.
Jeff, thanks so much for a terrific post. Anyone can confuse me on this stuff, it takes someone really knowlegeable to make it clear.
In the same vein as the CIPA issues, I know there are documents Scooter had to sign wrt his handling of all classified information, per his security clearance, that are much more aggressive than the IIPA. IIRC, those docs required him to notify someone if he was in any way unsure whether information he had been given was classified or not. These docs don’t allow him to say “I don’t know” or “I forgot,” about any classified information with which he comes into contact. Did Fitz’s team ever try to compare Scooter’s leaks wrt these non-IIPA requirements I am so clumsily referring to, as a way to gauge his knowledge of her identity relative to the IIPA?
Frank Probst @ 73
I’m picturing Cheney lecturing Fitz like he did Wolf Blitzer when Wolf asked about the lesbian daughter: “You’re out of line.” Or maybe it was more of a Cheney to Leahy “Fuck you”?
Sigh….but we’ll never know, will we.
Frank Probst @ 77
Um, NO! I am pretty sure Walton has known for some time though because of matters from the grand jury proceeding surrounding the jailing on contempt of Judy Miller among other reasons. I think Jeff disagrees with me in some regards, but that has always been my take.
Holy crap. If that’s true, poor Scooter may get the death penalty.
rwcole @ 52
Still laughing at “love for gooperism”. Is that anything akin to “redneckness”?
No offense to rednecks. It might just surprise you how many real rednecks are Democrats. I know a few of them myself.
What the pension is, is quite beside any point.
I know someone who had an advertising executive job in the 50s-60s in Europe, who occasionally, if asked, did stuff for the CIA, and had since WWII (the man is dead now). I think there are a lot of people like this, who aren’t officially with the CIA who are old, known people who will do something needed when called by their country. Splitting hairs about pensions is an insult, the result will be unwillingness to help the goverment out for people like this man. What a loss for us…
FDL get’s a mention in Consumer Affairs…Blogger, Journalist, Citizen: Which is Which?
By the way, I agree with the other commenters here Jeff; a very nice job on this article. And Frank Probst, I don’t know if I conveyed it, but I agree with everything you said above. This whole “she wasn’t covert” has been an idiot’s ruse from the get go.
John Casper @ 79
Yeah, it’s rather amazing the hoops the nutters have gone through to deny Plame’s status and to attempt to absolve Ol’ Scooter of all blame. Especially to anyone who has ever had a security clearance at whatever level. Most folks get at least annual briefings on protecting classified info, signing that the briefing has been held and information provided is understood under penalty of perjury. It’s always been very simple, if there is a page of a document that is classified the document is classified. And if a paragraph is classified EVERYTHING in that para is classified and the page is classified to hte highest level of informaiton contained.
But then, we also know IOKWYAR.
Swopa @ 82
LOL. Do we know where she went to law school? Or if she has ever tried a case in criminal court?
The special pay for being posted overseas in a hardship/danger location is a percentage differential added to the base pay; i.e., 5%, 10%, etc. The high three is based on the base pay, not the total amount. When you serve overseas, you also may get COLA- cost of living allowance, as well.
dakine01 @ 87
Which leads one to wonder, why there has been no investigation (I don’t have a clue what agency would be in charge of this) as to whether people who outed Plame should be stripped of security clearance or fired. In this instance, not knowing whether or not she was covert is not an issue, since carelessness is not an excuse. I mean even Novak called up the CIA to check to see if she was employed there; you’d think that Armitage, Libby, Rove etc would be expected to do at least that!
No offense to rednecks. It might just surprise you how many real rednecks are Democrats. I know a few of them myself.
Well, I’m a redneck, genetically speaking. Born in Alabama, grew up in Western North Carolina (and will carry the Appalachian long ‘i’ dispite speech classes and theater), live in North Georgia. Work Construction, and have towheaded kids. But I’m also a gay man, classical music lover, and reader. And I vote Librul, which may or may not be Democratic.
Libby would recoil from ‘redneckism’ given his history. What he did is just political evil, in the service to his masters.
Woodhall Hollow @90: I believe this came up at the Congressional Oversight Committee hearing where Valerie Plame testified. There is a White House office that should have investigated this (but did not do so), and the guilty parties should have lost their security clearances and jobs…
Congrats FDL 36,000,000 site visits!
Office Supplies AddictsGeeks R UsBrisingamen @ 92
I remember that well, but there doesn’t have seemed to have been any follow up. I would hope that Waxman would call the dufus’ (can’t remember his name, but his bump on a log schtick was spectacular) predecessor and demand some answers to the question as to why it wasn’t.
As far as I’m concerned Toensing advised the WH on the IIPA, as an expert, probably indirectly through someone like Matalin, prior to their anti-Wilson/Plame offensive press strategy.
This case is about lyin to a grand jury under oath- and to federal investigators. The status of Plame is a highly interesting sideline- but I can’t see the judge wanting to deal with it at sentencing- we already know Scoots is guilty- it’s only a question of punishment.
Brisingamen @ 92
And people are and have asked why Rover still has clearances based on his admitted involvement. Including questions of the Chimpenfuhrer who has declined repeatedly to answer becuz of “the on-gooing investigation,” which is no longer a valid response. Though I’m also sure he wil continue to stonewall.
Shrum is a crumb-bum.
-GSD
Incarcerate the traitor!
Libby putting his personal affairs in order an packin fer the big house—don’t forget yer mittens scooty- might be COLD in there.
Libby preparing a list of his favorite meals for the warden.
rwcole @ 96
The point is, he may have to deal with it in sentencing.
The govt has asked for a cross-reference to the IIPA statute, in an effort to raise his sentence from 17 months to 30 . That is premised on the notion that they were investigating a real IIPA violation. So if Reggie buys their underlying argument–that the cross-reference is possible–then there will be a squabble about whether she was covert.
rwcole @ 96
It’s not just about lying, but lying to keep the prosecutor from getting to the bottom of a much larger crime.
rwcole @ 96
It has some relevance on the sentencing calculation, I’m afraid. Libby’s supporters are trying to argue Libby wasn’t really convicted of obstructing an investigation of a possible IIPA violation, but Valerie Plame wasn’t really covert, so the IIPA couldn’t have been violated, so Fitz couldn’t have been investigating that. Or something along those lines. It’s not terribly convincing.
hi marcy — you in deecee?
Marcy—
If you get a spare moment tomorrow [?] you might inquire about if/when the closing arguments audio can be released. I was led to understand this is a possibility.
—egr
Fertilize those roots Scoots.
-GSD
“Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the supreme leader of Iran, has warned that Iran is prepared “to pay a price” to realise the aims of its nuclear programme.”
Looks like no-one takes Chimpy seriously anymore. All bluster Bush has done wrung out all he can get out of his bellicose ways…Now Iran says F-you, North Korea says F-you and Putin says F-you, China too.
Nice work George….
-GSD
My concern is with Rove and Cheney, primarily. What did they know and when did they know it? Libby is a bottom feeder. Higher up the chain is what I’m after.
egregious @ 93
754,628 of those are mine.
Until Scooter’s finished appealing, won’t the White House claim the case is ongoing/won’t comment?
Woodhall Hollow @ 94
Oh, you mean the predecessor of
NoodleKnodell? Yes, they should call whoever-it-is as a witness, and maybe the equivalent person from a previous administration for contrast.Is CNN gonna scrape Victoria Toensing off the floor for one more go around at lying through her jagged teeth?
-GSD
emptywheel @ 102
My dream scenario is that Walton rejects the “covert” argument (thus taking it off the table in the appeals process), starts with a base sentence of 17 months, and then bumps it up to, oh let’s say 30 months, for Libby’s failure to take any responsibility for his actions. That seems about right to me.
Frank- well it’s only relevant if the judge sees it to be relevant- I don’t think he will.
Marcy, How was the flight? Do you expect the hearing to start right at 9:30?
Obstruction and Lying are what bad guys do when they are hiding something worse.
Libby’s position in the Administration (his job title reported to both Cheney and Bush) makes Obstruction by him particularly serious – as an unempowered lackey himself, it is reasonable to suspect malfeasance on behalf of his superiors.
Libby getting sentenced tomorrow isn’t the end of this sordid affair – it’s just clearing away a barricade.
After tomorrow – Cheney will look nakedly guilty of the leak Scooter obstructed.
An Al Qaeda affiliated groups claims to have killed the two missing, captive US troops.
More victims and bodies in this horrible war.
-GSD
Swopa @ 82
Marcy just laughed out loud when I read that to her. We’re in Virginia at Starbucks and rarin’ to go tomorrow.
Lou Costello @ 85
Media powerhouse? Time for Rupert to make his move.
FDL would make a nice add on to the WSJ Online.
And Jane wouldn’t mind sharing a platform with Nooners.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 108
I disagree. Libby was the point-man on this operation. This was a Cheney/Libby show. I think Rove got involved just because he’s the guy you go to when you play dirty, but I think that Cheney and Libby were the ringleaders here. Mind you, I don’t think he’s MORE guilty than Cheney, but he sure as hell isn’t LESS guilty.
Swopa @ 82
LOL!
Unfortunately, I don’t think she’s giving THAT much help the defense. Libby, in his infinite wisdom, put a Democrat in charge of his defense team; he knows better than to let nutcases like Clarice too close to his future freedom.
pow wow @ 44
That’s the middle of the night here in Hawaii
(3:30 AM?) :-(
I guess I’ll just have to catch up during breakfast.
Bob in HI
Hope the press gives us frequent follow ups on Scoots in jail- following carefully his reformation into a model citizen.
Jane and Marcy—
You guys gonna stick around for the Senate Judiciary Committee hearing at 2:30 about US Attorneys?
Frank Probst @ 120
My concern is politically motivated. Who gave Libby his marching orders?
Sorta OT, but Sen Whitehouse is wondering (like a lot of us) just what Gonzo means by the words “wrongdoing” and “improper,” and is asking the Office of Inspector General to spell it out.
Go Sheldon!
Hi Jane & Marcy,
don’t have much clever to say, but thanks!
luuvv ya!
Frank Probst @ 120
Agreed, Frank. Also and specifically, T/Blossom is the guy you go to when you need a hookup with Novakula.
The impression here is that in this micro-managed Administration Rove, Cheney and Bush knew exactly what Libby was up to. Prior to him being up to it.
Show me some proof that Rove didn’t know what was going on.
OK @ 125: Like I said, I think this was a Cheney/Libby operation. I think Cheney gave the go-ahead, but I’m still not sure if it was Libby’s idea or Cheney’s. Bush isn’t smart enough to engineer something like this. Rove probably is, but Libby and Cheney are the ones who were going down to Langley. This was their show. They wanted to get Wilson and send a message to the CIA at the same time.
emptywheel @ 101
EW, what do you think? Will Reggie buckle under the neocon pressure. The PR is in place. Hey maybe he will bring his children for a sympathy photo op. I think Reggie will THROW the book (s) at him!
lolo
Jane Hamsher @ 118
Crossing state lines for moral purposes, as punaise might say.
I’m not taking about engineering something. I’m talking about prior knowledge.
new thread
OfT: Senator Craig Thomas (R-WY) in serious condition
empty
You think that the Judge will have to rule on whether or not she was covert in order to sentence?
(((((Senator Thomas and family)))))
Oklahoma kiddo @ 130
I think he only got involved after Cheney and Libby had already cooked up the scheme. He’s got plausible (well, not really “plausible”, but “possible”) deniability on the IIPA, because he can say that Libby told him Plame worked at the CIA but forgot to mention that she was covert. I’m betting that that’s what came out in grand jury appearance #5, which is why Team Libby didn’t call Rove to the stand. Libby, on the other hand, found out about Plame directly from Cheney and from a bunch of other official channels. (And frankly, I’m not convinced that he didn’t know who she was from his field trips at Langley.) You can bet your ass that whoever briefed Cheney about Plame remembers that conversation, and it’s very likely that they told him exactly what her status was.
I jis’ wanna say, for the sake of the dirty, farouking hippies around the place: Don’t Forget! The CIA is NOT your friend, not the friend of freedom, or justice, or liberty…
let’s keep this in mind, shall we? the history of the organization is quite antithetical to democracy, personal liberty, and human rights.
/
egregious @ 124
Who knows when we’ll finish? If we get an IIPA debate, we may be there all day.
Though I did tell the PTV guys to bring an extra credential for me–I’d send Jane home to bed and go to the Senate.
We’ll see.
Marcy
Did you see my comment about the Fitz audio of the closing arguments
MR. Bill @ 91
There has been a real disservice done to “rednecks”. Rednecks are the backbone of the country who get their name honestly and working by the sweat of their brow, usually in the outdoors in the sun tanning their skin, hense earning the name redneck. It is honest hard work, whoever does it. One mold does not fit all people. You are certainly an example. Libby may have some hard lessons in store. I hope his sentence fits the crime. That’s all I can ask. Who knows? Maybe he will get some time in the sun instead of under the aspens.
rwcole @ 137
rwcole
I can’t assess the various arguments on applicability of the cross-reference–sometimes folks mistake me for Christy or Jeralyn’s credentials, but I’m really not a lawyer.
But I suspect before he goes to the trouble of ruling on the IIPA, he’ll decide the cross-reference issue. Otherwise, it isn’t important. (The fact that the govt was investigating IIPA is important for an upward for the cost Libby made the govt spend, but that’s a lot easier to prove.)
And I still think it’s best to assume REggie will be somewhat conservative. The Pardon document was REALLY skewed in Libby’s favor, so REggie would really have to justify a big book-throwing soundly.
Sixty Something @ 143
i think there’s a crucial distinction to be made between ‘rednecks’ and ‘peckarwoods’, who are ALOT like rednecks, only dumber, meaner, more inbred, and prouder of it…
Frank Probst @ 131
You may be right. But. I keep coming back to the idea that Bush IS smart enough to engineer something like this. He’s just smart enough to put some distance between himself and the rest of the perpetrators and let them do the dirty work. This man is very vindictive.
New Thread
A more probable reference to the term ‘Redneck’.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck
BTW, I qualify either way.’cept for the Presbyterian part.
Perhaps we shall just have to agree not to agree.
Frank Probst @ 131
I think its also possible that they knew a whole lot more about what Valerie was doing, and didn’t like it. Thus, they weren’t just out to discredit Joe Wilson; they were out to sabotage Valerie’s undercover project.
Cheney’s dislike of the CIA has a long history. He prolly doesn’t like the way they rely on, y’know, real evidence, and logic, and stuff like that.
Bob in HI
Actually I am not a large fan of the CIA. ;0)
John Casper @ 79
I haven’t seen a response to this yet, so here goes: yes, those are the Nondisclosure Agreements Libby had to sign, one of which was entered into evidence by the prosecution – and it’s reproduced in the book. (Did I mention the book?) Anyway, the NDA puts an affirmative obligation on the signer – Libby, in this case – to make sure information whose classification might be uncertain to make sure information is not classified before revealing it. Fitzgerald has alluded on several occasions to this obligation that Libby had, and it was part of his argument about what Libby’s motive for lying was. If he was found to have violated his NDA, he could have his security clearance revoked and be fired, at a minimum.
emptywheel @ 144
I think that’s true, and it’s very clearly put, ew. Thanks for that.
Serving “abroad” not serving “abroad” who gives a flying “Cheney”. Libby, Fleisher, Rove, Cheney, Novak, all outed an undercover agent whose job it was to follow the path and sales of WMD’s (what the Bush administration said they were after in Iraq) in who knows (someone knows) what countries.
My 19 year old daughter (home from college) is trying really hard to understand why people who steal from service stations do more time in
jail than people who out an undercover agent who has put her onwn life on e the line to protect National Security.
Can anyone explain to her why? (Walton, Fitz, Comey) Can anyone explain to her why our justice system operates like this. As Alana has said “that sure does not sound like justice to me”
This line of defense seems spurious at best. The definition of the term “service abroad” for purposes of accumulating pay or pension rights should be unrelated to the purpose for which it’s used under IIPA.
Being “stationed abroad” means living and working abroad for an extended period of time. For reasons of administrative cost and convenience, this must often be for at least six months at a stretch. Anything else is “travel”.
In most government and business circles, the difference between a foreign posting and frequent foreign travel is personal. Expatriate assignments, while exciting, are a headache, and add the problems of moving, living, working and being schooled abroad to every day family life. Returning home or being transferred to a third country is just as hard. Governments and companies deal with it by paying more for it. It’s a cost thingy.
IIPA and clandestine service abroad are about something else entirely: Risk. The personal and organizational risks of secretly operating inside a host country, subject to a foreign government’s laws and politics and police methods.
Even friendly governments resent spies in their midst, even if they’re spying on businesses or criminals rather than on a foreign government. Unfriendly govts sometimes express their resentment by shooting spies, or interrogating and deporting them, or holding them hostage pending a suitable exchange with their home government.
Under IIPA, “service abroad” should include any time an agent is engaged in intelligence activities within the jurisdiction of a foreign government. An unfriendly government can shoot a spy who’s there for a day or week as easily as it can one who’s taken up a year’s lease on a nice flat overlooking the Volga, the Bund or the Nile.
That risk – and the limited protections offered under IIPA – have nothing whatever to do with whether an agent gets paid more now or in retirement for putting life and limb at the service of their country. Mr. Libby’s lawyers may be obligated to make any argument they can to get him off or reduce his sentence; it doesn’t mean that Judge Walton should pay much attention to them.
Jeff at 3:57 pm
Thanks very much.
Jeff @ 153
At the end of Fitz’a closing arguments he went on about Valerie’s status as an agent and how her outing had undermined National Security. I don’t think it will take much for Walton to say yes to her status at the time. It was obvious to me that Fitz had proven that point at least to Walton. ( I was at the trial for several days)
Jeff @ 152
Mr. Bush’s Justice Department seems to have little interest enforcing its exhaustively written Non-Disclosure Agreements against top aides. Now, if Shooter had just worn fatigues at a picnic next to a protest march, that would get him in big… well, it would if he or Big Dick or anyone now serving in the WH had ever spent a day in the armed services. I think that’s called “differential enforcement”, something the USG gets pissed off at the Chinese for.
Fizzle? Nawt.
Fitzle
EPU’d already.
from Bob Schacht at 150:
“I think its also possible that they knew a whole lot more about what Valerie was doing, and didn’t like it. Thus, they weren’t just out to discredit Joe Wilson; they were out to sabotage Valerie’s undercover project.”
My belief all along
1. Thanks for the response.
2. Re this from your post:
Now, it may well be useful to consider whether the CIA’s standard way of proceeding would be to include the kind of covert work abroad that Plame did in the five years before the Bush administration blew her cover in its pension calculations, though it’s far from clear that this should be controlling in the interpretation of the IIPA, as Maguire seems to suggest (and I’ll come back to this).
When would I ever buy a pig in a poke, or expect the defense to? As the excerpt made clear (I hoped…), if the defense doesn’t like the answer they will argue it is irrelevant; if they do like the answer, it’s Gospel. And of course Fitzgerald will argue the opposite.
However, although I don’t think it would be a controlling data point, I think it would be an important one in establishing government practice for recognizing service abroad; I can’t fathom how Fitzgerald could think that it was not a fact that should have been disclosed.
A possible reason for concealing it was suggested here:
It couldn’t possibly be that he was not eager to present her employment background because, well, it was classified information about work she did under cover, including overseas.
Hmm – would an additional sentence i nher employment summary to the effect of “As per Title 50, Section 403r. Ms.Plame received credit for service abroad as late as 2002″ really have impacted national security more than the actual disclosure in the summary that she took seven trips to ten countries? Tough call.
But Maguire is not content to just raise the question. He wants to accuse Fitzgerald of impropriety for withholding that information from the defense:
I am glad I was clear on that point. I could even half-believe that the original DoJ investigators missed the significance of that point in the fall of 2003. But if Fitzgerald really undertook a good-faith investigation of the applicability of the IIPA, he really was incompetent if he overlooked this fairly basic pension info.
At a minimum, he ought to have performed some analysis explaining why the standard government method of recognizing gov’t service abroad is not even worthy of mention, and he should have given the defense a chance to rebut that, since he raised the issue at sentencing.
TeddySanFran @ 50
Hey, ONE good thing re returning home & thus not having to tune in from Hawaii @ 3:30 am.
Sparkles the Iguana @ 41
IIPA was directed at Phil Agee for outing the entire Latin American contingent of the CIA in his book about the agency in 1975. Both Barb and Poppy flew off the handle when it was published. Agee had to find somewhere else to live after it came out.
I think he’s either in Cuba or somewhere in Europe now. He can’t go back to the US.
I wonder if the Bush family gets the irony involved in this whole affair.
Thanks for the time on the sentencing. I’ll make sure I have access to my laptop at 17.30.
Tom Maguire @ 161
Crikey. I came back here just for grins and ran into this drivel. I actually read through your entire comment looking for some semblence of an intelligent response to this post and/or any of it’s comments. I should have known better. You could have used some kind of random word generator program and produced a more coherent response. Vacuous is an understatement.
Tom
I think there are two maybe three distinct arguments going on here. First, there’s the argument about whether the Toensing/Thompson claim that the investigation itself was improper because they knew all along that IIPA could not conceivably have been violated because Plame was not covert under IIPA can be sustained. I think it cannot, and I think I’ve won on that one. And I don’t think anything in your latest argument calls that into question. Because the more emphasis you put on the use of “service abroad” as per 50USC403r to interpret “service abroad” in the definition of a covert agent under IIPA, the more you are rejecting the entire premise of the Toensing/Thompson position, unless you’re claiming that service abroad under 50USC403r only means assignments of quite extended duration. Are you?
(And one side note: remember the caveat that the issue is not simply how Plame’s pension was actually calculated, but how it should have been calculated. It’s possible they made a mistake.)
Second, there’s the issue of whether Fitzgerald was supposed to disclose information from Plame’s pension calculations to the defense at some point in the past. It seems to me the answer is pretty obviously no, given the way things played out with regard to her status, both before and during the trial. Let me recall what I’m sure you know Walton said in his June 2, 2006 protective order:
the materials withheld pursuant to this Order are not discoverable under Rule 16, nor exculpatory within the meaning of Brady v Maryland, 373 U.S. 83 (1963). In addition, the proposed unclassified substitutions are more than sufficient to address any obligation might have to produce the underlying classified documents and information to the defense.
(I’m not quite sure how to square that with what Walton says in the concluding footnote to that protective order, but whatever, it’s not a problem for my argument here.) Now, some information relative to the CIA’s categorization for retirement of her service abroad either was or wasn’t in there, depending on whether Fitzgerald judged it responsive. If it was, then there’s just no problem – Walton ruled on it. If it wasn’t, then there should be some explanation from Fitzgerald as to why he judged it non-responsive, and the judge can rule on that – or at least the defense should have a chance to demand an explanation from Fitzgerald (and let’s hope they took clarice’s advice and read your post!).
I will add on that argument that your read on it is too motivated by your already-established conviction (which I think is frankly ungrounded) that Fitzgerald is prone to improper action. As I think I said, to the extent that there’s something to complain about about Fitzgerald – and this is borne out in virtually all of the instances that you and yours complain about – it’s that he is too good at being a conventional aggressive federal prosecutor. Your complaints are better directed to the criminal justice system. (And I am happy to join you in it. Let’s start with the lousy AIPAC prosecution, for which we can thank the dearly departing DAG and his boss.)
Then there is what Fitzgerald is up to now, which is where I think you’re on the strongest ground. That is, if Fitzgerald is going to be bringing in the issue of other potential crimes now, he has to be prepared to some proving of the relevant stuff, including Plame’s status. (To the degree that Fitzgerald is using her status to rebut the claim from Libby’s official defenders in the context of sentencing that the investigation was not really motivated, I think it’s a somewhat distinct issue, which is not to say he should be allowed to simply assert stuff about Plame’s status. But it is different from asking for cross-referencing and so forth for the purposes of an enhanced sentence. I think.)
In any case, following up on something Marcy mentioned above, I sort of suspect that Walton will want to stay away from this whole mess, and that will be additional incentive to rule against cross-referencing or otherwise evade getting into the business about Plame’s status.
One last thing: I see that clarice is now claiming “TM asked us all to get the word out..knowing the email of a friend of a friend is hardly being in their camp, Jeff.” And that is consistent with her previous denials of connection to Libby’s defense. But in fact, as far as I can tell, you were not asking all of them to get the word out. What you actually did, however, was address a comment to clarice and conclude it with:
Anyway, can you mention this to Libby’s team, and might it still be timely? I have the odd feeling that this is a relevant detail overlooked by all.
For the life of me, this looks to be addressed specifically to clarice, and strongly implies that she is in a position to mention your point to Libby’s team, and to know whether it is still timely. Care to clarify this?
I mean TOTALLY. Like, this was never established. Oh. Ma. Gawd. Fer shure. And anyway, how much time did she actually spend working over the water? I hope she had on some sun block. And which sea was it? She never mentioned it–like it TOTALLY slipped her mind or something.
GAWD!
Hmm – would an additional sentence i nher employment summary to the effect of “As per Title 50, Section 403r. Ms.Plame received credit for service abroad as late as 2002″ really have impacted national security more than the actual disclosure in the summary that she took seven trips to ten countries? Tough call.
I think you’re misunderstanding my point. I took you to be making a general accusation that Fitzgerald was unforthcoming about Plame’s employment history in part because he had something to hide, and then seeing the issue of the pension calculations through that lens. I think the general point is wrong, and that I provided the appropriate explanation for Fitzgerald’s reticence on that score. As for the specific absence of your suggested inclusion of the pension stuff from the June 2006 unclassified summary, note 1)it was prepared by CIA, not Fitzgerald, according to the defense; 2)more importantly, that summary is not dedicated to making an argument that she’s covert, it’s offering a summary of her CIA career and cover history. There’s no particular reason why the argument you suggest Fitzgerald should have included should in fact have been included in a history of her CIA employment and cover.
From Jeff:
First, there’s the argument about whether the Toensing/Thompson claim that the investigation itself was improper because they knew all along that IIPA could not conceivably have been violated because Plame was not covert under IIPA can be sustained. I think it cannot, and I think I’ve won on that one.
I think I am bubbling under water (i.e., losing) and have been for quite some time on this one (I can dig up a post from Dec 2004 guessing that Ms. Toensing would not persuade the judges to quash the Miller subpoena and end the case). First, even if Fitzgerald simply was handed a perjury/obstruction investigation, so what – those are legitimate crimes. Maybe (Probably!) his Miller affidavit was overdone, but we haven’t even seen it.
I think the case can be made that the original investigators never really nailed down the viability of an IIPA charge in the fall of 2003, but I am also pretty sure it doesn’t matter too much. But if I think of something, I won’t be shy.
Because the more emphasis you put on the use of “service abroad” as per 50USC403r to interpret “service abroad” in the definition of a covert agent under IIPA, the more you are rejecting the entire premise of the Toensing/Thompson position, unless you’re claiming that service abroad under 50USC403r only means assignments of quite extended duration. Are you?
I’m arguing that if the DoJ didn’t even kick the tires of the pension rules, it is hard to take seriously the idea that they briefed the IIPA issues carefully. Whether they accept the “service abroad” definition there or not, they really should have addressed it, and given the defense a similar opportunity.
remember the caveat that the issue is not simply how Plame’s pension was actually calculated, but how it should have been calculated. It’s possible they made a mistake.
My open advice to Rep. Hoekstra is to ask when the latest revisions to that calculation were made – the CIA might well adjust her service abroad dates to better fit their goals here.
Second, there’s the issue of whether Fitzgerald was supposed to disclose information from Plame’s pension calculations to the defense at some point in the past. It seems to me the answer is pretty obviously no, given the way things played out with regard to her status, both before and during the trial.
Well, I am not helped by the fact that Walton claims to have reviewed this material. My current dodge – he had a file dump to review and overlooked this. Or, since the trial was perjury, not IIPA, her dates of service were not exculpatory or relevant. I’ve had stronger arguments, but weaker ones too. Maybe we’ll find out tomorrow (and if I moved the needle I will be insufferable. Again. Still.)
to the extent that there’s something to complain about about Fitzgerald – and this is borne out in virtually all of the instances that you and yours complain about – it’s that he is too good at being a conventional aggressive federal prosecutor.
I do occasionally and glumly note that aggressive prosecutors tend to prosecute aggressively.
Re my request to Clarice – she is an experienced Washington attorney, so I figured she was best positioned to know someone on Libby’s team. Whether she does, I have no idea, but here’s hoping.
As to whether it is timely – I don’t know how much back and forth occurs at a sentencing hearing. If the opposing briefs were meant to be the last word and Tuesday is everyone’s day to listen to Walton’s rulings, then this point is not timely at all. I figured as an attorney, Clarice would know better on that, as well.
Just the facts, ma’am, just the facts.
If Fitzgerald filed anything with Judge Walton’s court that was not factually based and supported then I have no doubt that Judge Walton would come down on Fitzgerald like a ton of bricks.
Therefore, Fitzgerald’s statement that Valerie Plame was a covert CIA agent, whose secret identity was being actively protected by the CIA, must be a fact…or Fitzgerald is lying…which would mean that Judge Walton should throw the book at Fitzgerald…which Judge Walton hasn’t done…indicating beyond a reasonable doubt that Fitzgerald’s statement is true.
As far as “service abroad,” I am reminded of generals stationed at the Pentagon who occasionally go overseas, to visit NATO or some of our military bases (like in Iraq), generals who drop in for a short visit and then return to their permanent duty station at the Pentagon. They aren’t taking a vacation overseas, my friends.
They are serving our country by going abroad, as part of their mission function. Just as Valerie Plame did on her “service abroad” missions, no matter the duration of the mission.
In her case, though, divulging anything about her “service abroad” destinations including the dates of the trips abroad would further compromise our national security, which apparently is what Tom Maguire is advocating that Judge Walton and Patrick Fitzgerald do.
Unfortunately, I see the same blindly-partisan mentality in Tom Maguire that I see in George Bush, Dick Cheney, Scooter Libby, Tony Snow and so many others in the Bush admnistration, a blindly-partisan outlook that led to the treasonous act of outing Valerie Plame in the first place, one in which political partisanship trumps even our national security.
Jeff and Tom Maguire – I am glad I wandered back here again. You are now engaging in a very good and honest discussion. I think Jeff was from the outset; Tom, I would like to now withdraw my earlier pretty pointed criticism. I still think that particular comment was vacuous, but you have come back with very decent stuff. I still don’t think you win here, but I certainly appreciate your views. A note to both, you both have these particular details down better than I do anymore, but as to the sentencing hearing tomorrow, it is not just everyone’s day to listen to Walton, however that will certainly be the final act. Unless the parties both approach the Judge together, ask what his inclination is as to sentence to hand down, and are both comfortable with his answer (unlikely), there will be plenty of give and take. And Jeff, given my experience in sentencing hearings, I don’t see that the covert status issue will be seperated for purposes of responding to Libby vis a vis cross-reference category enhancement purposes. Lots of disparate things get conflated at a sentencing hearing and then each side relates their final version of what it means to each element. The only way I would see this being more organized and seperated out like you think is if there was a request for a formal evidentiary hearing in conjunction with the sentencing, and I have seen absolutely no evidence of this. Such a request must be made formally in Federal court as a general rule (usually addressed in the Local District Rules) and i have looked and found no evidence of such a request.
it’s an interesting academic debate but it]s hard to believe the calculation of pension credits would be dispositive in determining the agent’s covertness abroad. wouldn’t some agents’s covert actions be scrubbed from pension records for secrecy’s sake? and were pension credits really at the heart of the IIPA debate when the act was promulgated? this is pretty tepid consomme to serve up in libby’s defense. either plame was working abroad or she wasn’t. the definition of ‘is’ remains “is’.
Horribly EPU’d, I know…but i’m actually in Asia, so getting this in a different heispheric tie zone.
I have a couple of points.
1) The IAPA is not vague on “service abroad”. I one looks at the next section it refers quite clearly to others that the IAPA protects. In that section it refers to US Citizen non-employees of “intelligence agencies” who act as sources that are RESIDENT ABROAD as also being protected.
Thus the Act clearly distinguishes between “SERVICE ABROAD” by CIA agents (and this could include those based abroad, as well as those who are tasked on missions, but not STATIONED abroad).
The fact that the act uses different terminology indicates that there is a clear distinction that was intended to be drawn.
2) McGuire’s effort to use pension evidence as suggesting that the CIA id not consider Plame covert is absurd. The pension criteria the CIA utilizes is one where an individual who reaches a cut-off point of 5-years service abroad and 20-years total service qualifies for early retirement. Thus, once an agent had reached that cut-off the agency really has no need to monitor ADDITIONAL service abroad. Plame’s service in Greece, Belgium, Britain, and elsewhere cumulatively surpassed that 5-year point. Subsequent trips abroad would not need to be tallied. An likely Plame would not have felt a need to complain to have these missions recorded on her pension ordinations.
The standards for the IAPA and the CIA’s pension system are vastly different. On is interested in whether an agent has serve abroad within five years of the violation (and that could be one day, one week, or our years…none of which would even reach the CIA’s early retirement level).
3) McGuire seems to think that Fitz violated the Libby defenses right by not examining these irrelevant pension records, rather taking the summary statement of her employment career (including missions abroad) and CIA request to investigate as sufficient evidence to pusue the prosecution. Recall that all Fitz needed was a prima facie case that a violation of the IAPA could have occurred. Even if there ere legal disputes about the phrasing of the law that would have to be decide in court it was still his duty to pursue the investigation. And it was Mr Libby’s DUTY to cooperate and speak truthfully before the Grand Jury and investigators.
If Mr Libby (and McGuire) argue that Libby felt he could act because he KNEW that Plame was NOT COVERT, then Libby seems to have withheld even further information regarding his knowledge of Plame’s employment (her pension records). Thus he further perjures an obstructs justice.
4) All of this “debate” ignores that the fundamental purpose of the IAPA as to protect our agents who were in foreign lands and thus especially susceptible to being exposed while they could be on a mission or operation, or place in physical danger. Can any sane person think that Congress would withhold that protection from specialized agents who were exposed by a reporter while traveling abroad to kidnap Osama bin Laden in Waziristan, while offering that protection to an agent stationed in Canada who was working with the RCMP to transfer sensitive information?
The pension criteria the CIA utilizes is one where an individual who reaches a cut-off point of 5-years service abroad and 20-years total service qualifies for early retirement. Thus, once an agent had reached that cut-off the agency really has no need to monitor ADDITIONAL service abroad.
Gee, and I provide a link to the statute and everything:
(2) The portion of the annuity relating to service abroad as described in subsection (a) of this section but that is actually performed at any time after the officer’s or employee’s first ten years of total service shall be computed as provided in section 8339(a)(3) of title 5; but, in addition, the officer or employee shall be deemed for annuity computation purposes to have actually performed an equivalent period of service abroad during his or her first ten years of total service, and in calculating the portion of the officer’s or employee’s annuity for his or her first ten years of total service, the computation rate and percent of average pay specified in paragraph (1) shall also be applied to the period of such deemed or equivalent service abroad.McGuire seems to think that Fitz violated the Libby defenses right by not examining these irrelevant pension records, rather taking the summary statement of her employment career (including missions abroad) and CIA request to investigate as sufficient evidence to pusue the prosecution.
No, Maguire seems to think that the DoJ claims to have had access to her file and should have had easy access to those service abroad dates, the most recent of which should have been disclosed to the defense to help pin down the five year rule.
Can any sane person think that Congress would withhold that protection from specialized agents who were exposed by a reporter while traveling abroad to kidnap Osama bin Laden in Waziristan, while offering that protection to an agent stationed in Canada who was working with the RCMP to transfer sensitive information?
I wonder what sanity has to do with gauging legislative language and Congressional intent. Or does c-ape think all of our laws are fully rational, and that none of our laws can be made to look inappropriate to extreme circumstances Possible! Maybe c-ape is insane!
From Jeff:
2)more importantly, that summary is not dedicated to making an argument that she’s covert, it’s offering a summary of her CIA career and cover history.
Hinet Injun – when the summary has passages like (I paraphrase) “the CIA was taking affirmative steps to conceal her identity” or “Ms. Plame was covert”, is it fair to guess they were addressing IIPA issues?
The idea that this summary was prepared in a vacuum in June 2006 with no regard to its IIPA implications is, hmm, not your strongest argument.
From bmaz at 164:
Crikey. I came back here just for grins and ran into this drivel. I actually read through your entire comment looking for some semblence of an intelligent response to this post and/or any of it’s comments. I should have known better. You could have used some kind of random word generator program and produced a more coherent response. Vacuous is an understatement.
Yet you repeated the whole thing! Well, artstunkeldern, hinkschlaffer! Go arsdklinke orkmorky, otchklot. If you can.
Tom Maguire – Did you not see my subsequent contrite comment at 170? I was feeling all warm and fuzzy, don’t make me regret it….