Matt Taibbi has an extraordinary takedown of Rudy Giuliani in Rolling Stone that I am certain has Rudy hissing through his teeth.
Although few people outside of New York know it yet, there is an emerging controversy over Giuliani's heroic 9/11 legacy. Critics charge that Rudy's failure to resolve the feuding between the city's police and firefighters prior to the attack led to untold numbers of deaths, the most tragic example being the inability of firemen to hear warnings from police helicopters about the impending collapse of the South Tower. The 9/11 Commission concluded that the two departments had been "designed to work independently, not together," and that greater coordination would have spared many lives.Given all that, why did Rudy offer this weirdly unsolicited reference to the controversy now? Was he joking? And if so, what the fuck? It was a strange and bitter comment to make, especially right on the heels of his grand-slam performance in the previous night's debate. If this is a guy who chews over a perceived slight in the middle of a victory lap, what's he going to be like with his finger on the button? Even Richard Nixon wasn't wound that tight.
---
Rudy [G]iuliani is a true American hero, and we know this because he does all the things we expect of heroes these days -- like make $16 million a year, and lobby for Hugo Chávez and Rupert Murdoch, and promote wars without ever having served in the military, and hire a lawyer to call his second wife a "stuck pig," and organize absurd, grandstanding pogroms against minor foreign artists, and generally drift through life being a shameless opportunist with an outsize ego who doesn't even bother to conceal the fact that he's had a hard-on for the presidency since he was in diapers. In the media age, we can't have a hero humble enough to actually be one; what is needed is a tireless scoundrel, a cad willing to pose all day long for photos, who'll accept $100,000 to talk about heroism for an hour, who has the balls to take a $2.7 million advance to write a book about himself called Leadership. That's Rudy Giuliani. Our hero. And a perfect choice to uphold the legacy of George W. Bush.
Yes, Rudy is smarter than Bush. But his political strength -- and he knows it -- comes from America's unrelenting passion for never bothering to take that extra step to figure shit out. If you think you know it all already, Rudy agrees with you. And if anyone tries to tell you differently, they're probably traitors, and Rudy, well, he'll keep an eye on 'em for you. Just like Bush, Rudy appeals to the couch-bound bully in all of us, and part of the allure of his campaign is the promise to put the Pentagon and the power of the White House at that bully's disposal....
The Paul incident went to the very heart of who Giuliani is as a politician. To the extent that conservatism in the Bush years has morphed into a celebration of mindless patriotism and the paranoid witch-hunting of liberals and other dissenters, Rudy seems the most anxious of any Republican candidate to take up that mantle. Like Bush, Rudy has repeatedly shown that he has no problem lumping his enemies in with "the terrorists" if that's what it takes to get over. When the 9/11 Commission raised criticisms of his fire department, for instance, Giuliani put the bipartisan panel in its place for daring to question his leadership. "Our anger," he declared, "should clearly be directed at one source and one source alone -- the terrorists who killed our loved ones."...
And that's only a small part of the article. Truly -- go and read the whole thing. But most disturbing, for me at least, is the portrait that Taibbi paints of the Giuliani's callous treatment of workers at the World Trade Center site in the clean-up aftermath.
While the mayor himself flew out of New York on a magic carpet, thousands of cash-strapped cops, firemen and city workers involved with the cleanup at the World Trade Center were developing cancers and infections and mysterious respiratory ailments like the "WTC cough." This is the dirty little secret lurking underneath Rudy's 9/11 hero image -- the most egregious example of his willingness to shape public policy to suit his donors. While the cleanup effort at the Pentagon was turned over to federal agencies like OSHA, which quickly sealed off the site and required relief workers to wear hazmat suits, the World Trade Center cleanup was handed over to Giuliani. The city's Department of Design and Construction (DDC) promptly farmed out the waste-clearing effort to a smattering of politically connected companies, including Bechtel, Bovis and AMEC construction....Although respiratory-mask use was mandatory, the city allowed a macho culture to develop on the site: Even the mayor himself showed up without a mask. By October, it was estimated, masks were being worn on site as little as twenty-nine percent of the time. Rudy proclaimed that there were "no significant problems" with the air at the World Trade Center. But there was something wrong with the air: It was one of the most dangerous toxic-waste sites in human history, full of everything from benzene to asbestos and PCBs to dioxin (the active ingredient in Agent Orange). Since the cleanup ended, police and firefighters have reported a host of serious illnesses -- respiratory ailments like sarcoidosis; leukemia and lymphoma and other cancers; and immune-system problems.
"The likelihood is that more people will eventually die from the cleanup than from the original accident," says David Worby, an attorney representing thousands of cleanup workers in a class-action lawsuit against the city. "Giuliani wears 9/11 like a badge of honor, but he screwed up so badly."
When I first spoke to Worby, he was on his way home from the funeral of a cop. "One thing about Giuliani," he told me. "He's never been to a funeral of a cleanup worker."
America's mayor, my ass. Tula had a great post for us several weeks ago about precisely why the firefighters union was not supporting Rudy's candidacy. I'd suggest folks take a good, long look at it -- and at the larger myth that Guiliani has created for himself. And how he has profited from that myth ever since. And Jane has some great thoughts on deconstructing Rudy which need more thought and discussion as well. We may look him square in the eye and see the good, the bad and the very very ugly core of Kerik and friends who are closest to his bosom -- but a whole swatch of America hears the name Rudy and thinks "strong man with a bullhorn who will keep me safe so I don't have to worry about wetting my pants." And if you think that isn't a powerful sell, still, for a whole host of folks in America, then you are not paying attention.
(Photo via TalkLeft. H/T to Nicole at C&L for the Taibbi link.)
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zed?
That’s two in a row!
Zed and run?
Abner Louima, Amadou Diallo, Patrick Dorismond.
How do these anchors feel Rudy?
But what if I have a good question from the last thread?!
This needs looking into, BTW. :)
Rudy is a bully — it’s that simple. As a New Yorker I’ve been watching this race in disbelief that anyone would elect this man POTUS! There has been a lot of negative things about him in the media recently which gives me hope that his imperial dreams will be dashed. God help us all if he makes it to the White House.
Rudy is thuggy. I’d like to see a thorough outing of his business interests. And I don’t even want to mention Bernie Kerik, the mob connected character Rudy almost mentored into the WH. The hell I don’t! I know what I’m doing ‘not mentioning Kerik’.
I like the idea of celebrating labor day, not just as a tag for unions but as a way of Dems saying we are for people who earn their living, the wage earners….and there is no preference for those who live off investments–maybe unless you are over 65.
nybeachlover at 6 — Do read the whole Taibbi article. It’s a creepy sort of portrait of Rudy — but the Kerik-tainted side of Rudy’s personality comes through loud and clear in it. (Plus, Taibbi’s writing snark is on fire. Who could pass that up?)
credit to CMIKE up the other thread @ 178
“Until the Democrats can unapologetically state they are out to promote the interests of those who earn their income we are going to be governed by default by the champions of unearned income, trickle down economics, and the leisure class.”
nybeachlover @ 6
It must come about via the thinking that if an hard-headed idiot punk like Dubya can get ‘elected’ then Rudy thinks his chances are greater because he’s - more shrewd.
Trust me, when Rudy gets out here in the West, the theocrats will hit him. He’s safe in New York or in New Jersey, but come out here, Rudy.
Wordsmith @ 5
Well I have a l-o-n-g way to go to match lolo…
Christy Hardin Smith @ 9
I get Rolling Stone via paid subscription to Salon.com. I’m amazed at the exposes done. Without getting up from the balcony - there was one entitled, ‘The Phony War’ worth reading as well.
I plan on not brining up Rudy’s realtionship with the organized crime figure Bernie Kerik, or the fact that Rudy pays his wife to be a wife and has her under contract, or Rudy the G’s apparent aversion to family values, a lot.
I can’t imagine the Falwell/Robertson crowd going anywhere near Rudy, big brass balls or not. If he’s the nominee, they’ll take their marbles and go home. Rudy could wind up presiding over the biggest electoral debacle in Republican party history (tee-hee).
Taibbi is incorrect. The active ingredients in Agent Orange were the herbicides 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T. Dioxin was a contaminant.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 14
I however, have NO compunction about bringing up the names Abner Louima, Amadou Diallo, and Patrick Dorismond every chance I get.
Not to mention that he’s now trying to use this JFK “terrorist” plan as a political point, saying that this proves that it’s safer to elect him.
And btw, am I the only one who thinks that this whole JFK, Carribean-Al Queda thing stinks? The daughter of one of the guys said that they got the wrong guy. Then, after making it seem like blowing up this pipeline would set fire to half of NY - “an attack worse than 9/11″ - ConEd says that it wouldn’t have been as bad as that. These guys had no explosives.
Why is it that all a terrorist has to do is say something and the Government has to jump all over it as if they could actually do something like what they claim? And worse, why is it used to blow up the terrorist threat and make it seem like we’re constantly under threat?
rudy cant win his home state or CA., and because he is no Fundie and has really bad family values and dresses in women’s clothes, he can’t win the South–maybe a state or two– and he can’t win in the Plains.
he is toast. nominate rudy.
You think swift boat was ugly–wait till you see the NYFD and NYPD ground zero crowd attack him.
Guys on respirators.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 9
Taibbi is on the money. In the hours after the twin towers came down, Rudy looked strong and decisive. The rest of his tenure as mayor, though, he acted like a tin-pot dictator.
Was Rudy ever in Bernie’s mob financed call girl apartment?
Bernie’s and Rudy’s boys nights-out in “the apartment”. Courtesy of organized crime?
Giuliani, another pockmarked face of the Hydra.
But what enables his ilk to gain and retain power?
How about a great nation morphing from producer to overfed, indolent, complacent consumers…A process decades in the making, and occuring with the full acquiescence of the majority?
A nation so beguiled by forbidden lusts and the pursuit of subjective happiness that it could not excise the political cancers at its core…In fact, allowing them to grow in power again and again, through inertia or selfish direction?
…that trumpeted enshrined freedoms in a self-congratulatory way, yet supported the worst sort of dictators and corrupt politicians available in far flung countries as a method of exerting and retaining global hegemony…And destroying them when they became less compliant?
…And so consumed with unspoken xenophobic fears that one day of catastrophe was all that was needed to justify discarding two centuries of societal touchstones, so that the masses could feel ’safe’ in a world that they barely cared to understand anyway?
‘We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it.
Power is not a means, it is an end.
One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship.’
And so it goes.
Geesh. With these kind of facts, I could do research for Rush or Bill O’Reilly. Too bad I’m from the ‘wrong party’. Just a taste of what’s coming, GOP.
And as for Fred? Bring him on too.
Giuliani isn’t going to happen. McCain is an animated corpse. Romney is too Mormon (and flip-floppy) for the GOPer base. We all know Ron Paul is a no-go. Who will be the GOPer nominee? We all know it will be Fred Thompson, who himself cannot win the Prez because he is a pro-Iraq chickenhawk. He’s a toned-down Giuliani. It will be Thompson vs (gag) Hillary (unless hope of hopes Gore jumps in).
It will be a race between more of the same with yet MORE folksy talk (Thompson) and more of the same with softer edges with the DLC ascendant again and Rahm drooling about being in the WH pushing DLC talking points as policy.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 23
But the thing is, with Rudy, there’s NO NEED to embellish things; the basic truth/facts should be more than enough.
Sorry to go OT, but Wikipedia is proposing that Steve Gilliard’s entry be deleted because he is a “non-notable blogger.”
You can leave your comments on this matter here.
Bring out the papier mache, is there a “Kiss” moment in Fred’s story?
So, we don’t want Rudy to be the GOP nominee? Why is that, exactly? Are we afraid the media machine will engage around his mythology and laugh off the dead and dying firefighters, police officers, and city workers whose families will trail him everywhere?
Are we afraid Rudy will buy up all the Rudy-in-drag YouTubes, so no one south of the Mason-Dixon line will see them?
Are we afraid Rudy will win states George Bush lost? And which states are those, exactly? Are we afraid Rudy will win states John Kerry won? And which states are those, exactly?
Isn’t Rudy our dream nominee?
TeddySanFran @ 29
I am with you, TeddySanFran.
Rudy for Gooper-in-Chief.
Bring on thug values and sell it to the world.
If Rudy gets the nomination, I’m going to
open a ferret suit rental place, and clean up. I’ll also pray the religious wingnuts stay away in droves or run a third party candidate.
Yo, ‘we hate Hollywood’ Republicans. Fred Hollywood Thompson, I’m waiting.
yellowdogD @ 32
Rudy for the Gooper nod
McCain/LIEberman as the Unity08
Tancredo/Brownback as the Nutter ticket
The first sweep in electoral history…
(Congrats, dakine01)
Christy, thanks for taking this creep on.
If someone ever questions Ghouliani about this, he’ll say “the experts didn’t know”.
Bullshit.
The world’s largest Occupational Medicine and Health discussion (OEM-L) is run by a terrific fellow, Dr. Gary N. Greenberg.
On 9/11 the list was full of info and discussion abou the very inhalation risks discussed above.
(and weird wingnut responses - mostly from non-MD’s - that simply talking about the risks was “unpatriotic”….
the War on Reason has been going on a long time.
Works so well for the megacorps, after all.)
That pix at the top. Is Rudy sticking something into Bernie’s back? Looks suspicious.
This country has had way too much lethal cronyism since 2000. The last thing it needs is more of the same and that is exactly what Rudy is about.
I’m ready to kick some Republican ass.
Rudy’s nomination is the most likely to split the GOP. The theocrats will either stay at home or nominate Brownback/Tancredo on a Xtianist/Xenophobe ticket. This makes BlueAmerica’s focus on House and Senate races all the more important: the next President and VicePresident may be chosen there, if no electoral college winner emerges in 2008.
No Democrat will ever say that because they are out to promote the interests of the champions of unearned income, trickle down economics, and the leisure class.
And no one else.
Had enough smoke and mirrors? Vote Democratic.
Had enough abuse and dishonesty? Vote Democratic.
Had enough arrogance and incompetence? Vote Democratic.
Had enough deception and distrust? Vote Democratic.
There is very little danger of Rudy winning the nomination, much less the White House.
Oklahoma kiddo says:
Democrats at one time had a brand. A political brand is what the party stands for. We need a brand.
O.k.
I think Kennedy’s “Ask not what your country can do for you ask what you can do for your country” was the Democrats last strong “brand”
I think in this statement lies the core/the secret to compassion, liberty and true freedom.
This statement/brand taps into that no matter what circumstance that you are in, (on welfare, a struggling single parent, middle class and crazy from driving the kids to dance classes and sports events, living on Park avenue) you can tap into a higher state of being that all humans have the potential to tap into. That statement carried us beyond our own individual circumstances and challenged us all to give. To remember that there is always someone struggling more than you that you can help if you are only willing to “walk in someone elses shoes” or imagine that some people can not even afford shoes.
That if you find some way to give, someone to give to who is struggling more than you. When you exercise this part of human potential you are tapping into the real compassion that lies within all of us. Compassion and true empathy are the path to true freedom. This higher need to give (and all Religions talk about) taps into the source which feeds the people when they can not feed themselves, provides health care and access to a solid education.
When we stop giving and spend our time thinking about getting true compassion and altruism seizes up and turns to rust. Our nation ends up in a state of “greedlock”.
Who ever wrote that line “ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country” tapped into a source of inspiration that Americans are starving for.
The Democrats can do it again. They can call for all Americans to operate out of a sense of the greater good, (not just comfort and greed) and not just for our National interest (oil). Americans are hungry for a brand a message with substance and inspriration.
Praedor Atrebates @ 26
you’re forgetting the mccain/lieberman 3rd party ticket in 08 …
George Will (who I always enjoy reading) had an op/ed out today sayin that the “real” conservatives are comin to the fore in the gooper party and that goopers won’t be tied up in knots about minor issues like abortion this time around. It’s all about Rudy- without mentioning his name.
Fiscal conservative HATE the cultural conservatives and would love ta bury em all.
TeddySanFran @ 30
Abso-fucking-lutely!!!
I am hoping that Rudy does win the nomination. He would be incedibly easy for almost any of teh dems in the feild to beat. I am sure that Hilary is praying that he is the republican nominee, because there is no way in hell that anyome on the right would dare to swift-boat her, with Rudy’s closet as full of old bones as it is.
Nominate Rudy!
(btw–it is worth noting that when Rudy withdrew from the NY Senate race, it was clear that Hilary was going to be an incredibly tough oponent–and very likely would’ve won. He was so incredibly unpopular and haunted by scandal)
OT: Lewis Lapham is coming up on BookTV on C-SPAN2 for those interested.
rwcole @ 45
Actually, Will mentions Rudy’s name a coupla times. It’s a blatant appeal to reward Rudy’s competence, which Will sees in odd places.
Christy, you must be very confused.
George Will has a piece today extolling Giuliani’s
“managerial competence”.
And Conrad Black’s $25,000-a-trick rent boy can’t be wrong, can he?
you’re forgetting the mccain/lieberman 3rd party ticket in 08 …
The “Crazy Pro-War Old Coots” ticket?
I keep forgetting - which is the more insane one?
Teddy
You’re right- I didn’t reread the article before mentioning it.
I think that the dream candidate is whoever is most closely aligned with George W. Bush. At this point- ironically- that’s McCain! (or so it seems to me).
jayt @ 50
flip a coin…
I used to think we oughta hush up about Rudy, but now I agree we need to crack the facade now. The theocrats need to be organized and ready to run a ticket if he’s nominated. Or Romney.
I imagine the GOP will pick Fred Thompson, since he has the BushCo moneyed interests’ loyalty without the dripping stink of Iraq on him. He’s St Ronnie2.0, without the grasping, ambitious wannabe First Lady. All the sexy sizzle of Reagan with none of the scary apocalyptic vision to keep under wraps.
TeddySanFran @ 53
And Dobson has already declared that Ol’ Fred ain’t Xtianist enough for him. And think about the visuals of Ol’ Fred, Mrs T and the puppies going to the fundie churches…
GeorgeSimian @18
Unlike the real bomb found in Austin, Texas recently, but pay no attention to that.
Hagel is coming (that is unless he has too many skeletons in his closet). I believe Hagel is using the same strategy as Gore. Let the candidates beat each other up and he will declare in the fall.
Hagel is one of the only people besides Kucinich who is willing to talk about the Israeli Palestinian conflict. He challenges the U.s.’s lopsided policies
Hagel has challenged Liebermann over and over again. Hagel actually is brave enough to talk about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict on the MSM.
Hagel challenges Liebermann
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/.....ran-syria/
Hagel challenges Liebermann
http://www.crooksandliars.com/.....lieberman/
dakine01 @ 52
“Baghdad Power-Shoppers”!!
dakine01 @ 54
LOL! Though I have a feeling that the puppies might be in the process of some - er - modification, so as to be a little more, shall we say, groomed, by July.
OfT: Rostock’n'roll: Photos of rioting before the G8 summit.
TheOtherWA @ 55
And the ready-to-rumble crazies at Falwell’s funeral, all set to blow up the Phelps demonstrators.
The gooper primaries are going to provide the most entertainment possible without an “adults only” rating.
These guys are going to rip each other to tiny bits- and everyone’s got LOTS to work with. Rudy’ll be the first target- the other candidates are just loadin their shit bags.
Hagel probably has low single digits of jewish voters- and most of em vote dem anyway. He can say whatever he likes about Israel- UNLESS HE GOES NATIONAL.
TeddySanFran @ 60
And let’s not forget the Cheeto-stained Freeper who mailed white powder to
Speaker Pelosi and others from the privacy of his mother’s basement.
His case seems to be a victim of the Memory Hole.
rwcole @ 61
Old Lord McCain has provided a little peek, with his “Guatemalans and the varmint gun” poke at Romney. StRonnie’s Eleventh Commandment is gonna get shredded, unless they drag Nancy all over the country to every GOP debate (not outta the realm of possibility).
jayt @ 50
anyone who votes for either?
With Hagel’s anti-war stance, and pro-XtianXrazy
voting record, he is the one I’d be worried about.
BBQ time here. Hope you all like burgers off the back porch grill with all the trimmin’s. Shroom burgers with avacado etc. available too. Mexican beer and Margarita’s, soda or milk. Angel food w/ strawberries and homemade ice cream for after. We’re gonna talk Demo politics. My family and me.
Goopers would be much better off to have at least one anti war person in the pantheon of candidates- A few bad months in Iraq and the whole pantheon could be destroyed.
I was predicting last year that both parties would nominate candidates who are: 1) governors, 2) STRONG supporters of Israel, 3) war enablers, and 4) wan on corporate reform and campaign finance reform.
Romney and Richardson fit the bill. But I’m beginning to think that element one isn’t necessary. The other three are as operative as ever.
To me, the presidential race this cycle is beyond bizarre, especially the GOP field. None of the Republican candidates are viable as a GOP platform candidate, let alone as a president.
By Dan Balz and Jon Cohen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, June 3, 2007; Page A04
Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York holds a solid lead over her rivals for the Democratic presidential nomination, while the contest for the Republican nomination appears even more unsettled than it did when it began five months ago, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.
Ed
Yeah- it’s an odd assortment that the cat dragged in. I was hopin for a dem governor- they have at least run somethin- and they DON’T have a voting record..
Rudy does have THAT advantage.
Former New York mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani remains the leader in the GOP race, but the poll suggests that the surge in support he received after declaring his candidacy has stalled and that his backing of abortion rights and gay rights has caused more Republicans to turn away from him.
Sen. John McCain of Arizona runs second in the GOP race, but the poll results raise questions about his candidacy. Former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney, who has spent millions on television ads already this year, has in some ways become an attractive alternative over the past few months, and former senator Fred D. Thompson of Tennessee shows the potential to quickly make the GOP contest a four-way battle.
leslie @ 66
Hagel is coming…
I’ll go out on a limb here and pick Romney. He will just need to re-invent himself one more time after he gets the nomination. Don’t really know about the dems- but I’m beginning to think that it will be Hillary- I didn’t think so until recently- but I’ve talked to a lot of rank and file dems who are strongly supporting her.
rwcole @ 71
2006 was as much about the early part of this cascade of GOP scandals as it was about the war. 2008 will be about the war against Iran, which I’m still convinced will be on in one form or another by summer, 2008. And it will be about more GOP scandals.
Actually on the issue of Iraq, I find nothing to quibble with in insofar as pertains to Hagel.
so …. we write all the current rethugs off. and it ends up being either hegel or thompson running? Hillary and Obama mutually destruct,and gore rides in to save the day. mccain and lie-boy split off for a third party spoiled-brat run. and cheney appoints himself veep for eternity no matter what.
Which gives us
hegel/cheney vs. gore/cheney vs. mccain/lierman
OT. From TPM on the idiotic MSM coverage of the JFK plot:
A diabolical plot to destroy the ozone layer, one CFC-leaking Whirlpool at a time.
The only good thing about Hagel is his position on the war. His voting record is at 100% as far as the Xtian coalition is concerned. And that scares the bejebus out of me.
I keep puzzling over Clusterfuck’s statement to his Texas friends in the middle of his rant that he was gonna fix it so the next president couldn’t withdraw from Iraq.
When Cortez invaded Mexico- the first thing he did was the burn his ships- so that his men couldn’t retreat.
What’s the analogue to boat burnin for the shrubberoony?
If Hillary loses Iowa to Edwards, Nevada to Richardson, New Hampshire to Dodd, and South Carolina to Biden — how will she recover for SuperDuperExpialadotious Tuesday, February Fifth? Regardless of national polls, support from the party’s rank-and-file, and attempts to cast 2008 as a new paradigm because of National Primary Day 2/5: no way will TradMed let a four-time loser go into February unscathed.
rwcole @ 80
permanent military bases in iraq …
Lee
MMM- Maybe- alhough a new prez could always turn em into museums and give em to the Iraqis as a goin away gift. Some kinda shootin war where Iraq was a base of operations might fit the bill.
lee5 @ 82
…and an embassy bigger than the Vatican.
It’s the “Burning Bush” analogy, complete with egotistical but inept military stategery and rife with Biblical imagery. A Chimpy twofer.
-GSD
Do you think Guiliani had something to do with getting this JFK attack blown up? He’s got enough pull in the NYPD to get it done, and he was pretty quick about jumping on it for political points. And the plot seems pretty weak for all the attention it’s getting.
OKK@ 67
i’m flying out as we speak to that BBQ!! sounds delish ;)…. taibbi speaks truth to power in more ways than 1… ghouliani has rode the 9 1 1 wave into a fortune and now thinks he can buy the presidency… hmmm methinks not!
in the midst of the iraqi war - the building of the largest embassy goes on….paving the way for the prolonged occupation of iraq for decades ….and we think the iraqis dont want their country back… sooooooo get set for perpetual war in the ME
leslie @ 84
George’s God is bigger than the Pope’s God.
Fundamentally, the only problem I have with Hillary is her views on the Middle East. And lack of courage which, is of course not unique to Senator Clinton in relation to most elected and non-elected members of my party.
rwcole @ 74
Hillary’s unwillingness to admit that she made a mistake on her yes vote for the war resolution in 2002 will take her out.
Kathleen
Well she’s said that had she known then what she knows now she’d have voted differently (I think she said that).
At any rate- we’ll see if she gets the nomination. I think her odds are on the increase. Edwards isn’t making any progress- and it’s gettin pretty late for Gore or someone else to get into the game- they’d enter with empty pockets.
Still plenty of time- nine months or so to the first primary. Time will tell.
Two days after the attack on the World Trade Center, The Environmental Protection Agency released a false statement of reassurance to the people of New York.
Not only was Christine Whitman lying about the poisoned air, she lied about who made the decision.
Bush’s very own Temple of Babylon. If only his followers saw Bush as the false messiah he really is.
-GSD
The only problems I have with Hillary is that I think it might be good to get out of this Bush/Clinton pattern and that I think the Right hates her so much after 12 years of dismal lies against her by the Right crazies that it will be hard for her to get anything done.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 90
Hagel could divide some of the vote. He is willing to talk about the I/P issue out loud on the MSM. A*p*c owns Hillary.
If she were willing to talk about the I/P conflict in a fair and impartial way I get closer to forgiving her for her yes vote on the war resolution and her unwillingness to admit her mistake.
How many times do we have to hear from Israel’s neighbors that the I/P issue is a thorn in their collectives sides. And the fact that Israel has massive stockpiles of nuclear, biological and chemicals weaspons that operate in the shadowa. That Israel is unwilling to sign the Non-Proliferation treaty and will not allow inspections. People in the middle east have been tired of these double standards for quite some time.
on the theory that any dem candidate now is better than the repugs… i’d have to swallow hard and vote for hillary if she’s the choice but oh my i’m still hoping for another to enter - there’s still time for someone else to enter the race….
Kathleen @ 91
If she were smart, she could frame the apology (or at least the admission of a mistake made) as a full scale attack on teh manipulating of intelligence and lies told by the Bushistas which informed said vote. She could say, well, I got hoodwinked that time (even though she probably didn’t, rather was too cowardly to risk being called an unpatriotic coward) but never again, and then start detaling ever single lie ever told by the Bushistas.
It is a mystery why she and the other dems don’t do this. Or is is. Maybe their own hands are are not so clean in some respects on this score. Or something–because this Dem failure to call rethugs on their foreign lies has been going on at least since iran-contra, and likely for far, far longer (dems in Vietnam, for instance…).
It is about framing, presentation, marketing….
Taibbi talks about Rudy speaking to some kids and
And no one answers that kind of bullshit.
I heard on the teevee (CNN this morning with Elizabeth Edwards) that Hillary said she would not have voted the way she did in 2002 if she had known then what she knows now.
But I agree with rw@ 92 that her 2002 vote won’t be useful against her. I do think that voting against this latest supplemental after everyone else had voted may play a larger role in talking points.
On C-Span at this very moment they are showing a focus group talking about the Presidential campaign. (It’s a re-play: I’ve seen it before.) What is scary is that Giuliani is enjoying a lot of support which is what the polls show. The thing that we lefties tend to miss is that these people don’t care — don’t think — about what he stands for. They are reacting with their evisceral devotion to strength and power. This is because they have authoritarian personalities. They are not rational.
It is for this reason that I have changed my position on Rudy. I used to say let’s support him as our Dream Nominee for the G.O.P. Now, I am actually afraid that he could get traction, especially if international events are manipulated to increase the fear factor. (Don’t think the White House would do that? You must be kidding.)
We should go after Giuliani with both barrels. Luckily for us, the Catholics, the firefighter’s union and the cops are already onboard.
Please visit the Schapira blog, “What we know so far …”
“… and tell ‘em Big Mitch sent ya!”
rwcole @ 92
She has used that line “if only I knew then what I know now” many times. It is a pile of horseshit. She did not read the complete National Intelligence Estimate. Many many experts predicted right where we find ourselves in Iraq. She had better come up with a new line and fast.
Edwards has admitted that his war vote was a serious mistake. I appreciate that. But I am sure that those who have family members serving in Iraq and all of the Iraqi people who are suffering and who have lost family members who are dead say “horseshit” in their language.