Continue question on Darfur: Richardson says we need to care more about African generally, but would not use force to stop genocide.
All express concerns, all see broader picture, links to other policies, and as Edwards notes, links to declining moral authority of US. Biden reseizes “moral authority” mantel by saying we need to act
*****
Update: 9:00 p.m.
Q re federal deficits and what do to about them? More taxes or less spending? Richardson talks about balanced budget in New Mexico — favors pay as go, liine-item veto, balanced budged amendment. Talks about cost controls, but not tax issues. Grow the economy.
Dennis K: need to change pro-military spending policies; get rid of NAFTA.
Q re corruption in government and earmarks. Should they be vetoed? Dodd doesnt want to put budgeting into straight jacket. Refocuses on better fiscal policies. Gravel says, get rid of earmarks totally, and use line-tiem veto. No one explains earmark problem is transparency.
Hillary explains presidenting: we have to raise revenues and curtial spending, and that’s how we got balance budges in the past. We did it before; we can do it again. Gravel reminds her about “raiding” the SS fund.
Biden says the problem is private funding of elections; move to public funding.
Q: what is your top priority in first 100 days? Edwards — reestablish prestige of US; speak to world about real american values. Demonstrate US is not just strong, but moral and just.
Hillary — if Bush hasn’t ended the war, that’s the priority
Obama, and then deal with health coverage.
Richardson, — pay teachers more.
Biden = ditto.
Dennis K: reshape American policy for peace, cancel NAFTA and move to fair trade.
Gravel: end the war now, not then.
Dodd — restore respect for Constitutional rights.
Sounds like we have a Democratic agenda for the first 100 days.
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ZED
not the zed
FDL
“Grow the economy?” What the hell does that even mean?
I think the short story on this debate is “Obama lost” frankly. The magic of his rallies is lost in these things.
Richardson would give tax cuts to companies that give decent wages.
I have never seen an Obama rally, and I have never understood his appeal. He certainly doesn’t shine in this format.
Julie Waters @ 5
Give people decent pay and quit outsourcing, imho.
I’d like to see a debate of all the spouses. Especially the Repig. spouses. THAT would be fun!
DK — get outta Nafta
Wolfie: Repubs say big money big spending taxers.
Kucinich: quit borrowing money from china. quit sending it to war…
Kuchinich yelling too much.
RevDeb @ 10
With the ex-es providing commentary afterwards!
TeddySanFran @ 8
It ain’t done but I don’t think it was a good forum for Obama.
Silly question, arriving late:
What’s that on the bottom of Bill Richardson’s shoe? Duct tape?
Bob in HI
Kucinich at bat. Now I am impressed.
Tom Watson @ 5
I dont know how anyone can really win in these debates when there are 8 people up there.
RevDeb @ 9
You just want to see Bill Clinton surrounded by women, don’t you? :)
Dennis – good answer
TeddySanFran @ 8
He exhibits a lot of passion in his speeches which he obviously lacks in this forum.
TeddySanFran @ 13
I’d watch that (with enough wine of course).
TeddySanFran @ 14
Hell let them in as well…add a little extra spice. would be some interesting alliances formed THERE.
Julie Waters @ 19
Actually I’d like to see Fred Thompson’s wife debate the rest of the field. The camera operators would have a field day.
buckley @ 17
Agree with that – there are only losers, bad moments etc. Barry’s not on tonite.
Earmarks, would you outlaw them?
Dodd: More discipline. Not with debt. Currency manipulation possible on the part of China.
“How would you respond to Republicans who would say that all they hear are Democrats who want to raise taxes and governent spending?”
The answer is obvious — they’d say that even if every Democrat sat there and said they’d cut taxes and slash government spending. It’s a Republican talking point offered apropos of nothing.
What a stupid question.
Dodd doing a good job on fiscal responsibility.
Jane Hamsher @ 27
Wolfie at his finest…
Jane Hamsher @ 27
Q. Why is this night different from all other nights?
A. It isn’t.
Line item veto would only remove the opposition party’s earmarks, so that won’t work. The Dems wouldn’t have gotten anything in the last 6 years in that case.
Hill reminds us that Bill left a balanced budget.
Obama and Edwards both did not “shine”, but I don’t think they bombed, either.
Hillary is suprising me by how well she is doing.
I’m liking all of our candidates tonight, makes me glad I’m not a Republican.
Bout time for people to start getting out of the race.
Gravel, get rid of earmarks completely.
Clinton, 6 years ago surplus. No free lunch. Raise revenues and cut spending. Only the wealthy getting cuts, middle class paying. We have done it in recent history and we can do it again.
Gravel deranged.
Yes – speaks to the fact Obama’s not ready for prime time …
’cause stoopid and ambitious are not an appealing mix.
Clinton doing fine now on balanced budget.
To continue with the whole Obama lost tonight..
When there is a debate with so many people no one wins. I dont think Obama was great tonight, but I dont know that anyone has so far. They all made their points, but this format does not lead to a real winner. Winners come out of smaller, real debates about a couple issues. Not these super debates where everyone pats each other on the back and has to spit out an idea in one minute.
Kucinich talking about interest groups divving up Iraqi oil, NAFTA.
What did Biden say to get clapped?
Biden: you want to get away from interest groups? Go to public financing of elections…
Biden says do public financing of elections. Alright Biden!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 37
Clinton hot, OKK. The others are deferring to her too.
Loo Hoo. @ 40
public financing of elections, i think
biden – public funding of elections.
good
Biden answers the question that lies under all other questions.
If you want . .(name it) . . to happen, change the system that finances elections. Federally financed elections is the only way to go.
THAT is the answer to SO MUCH of what is wrong with our system.
JE — America is strong, but also moral and just
RevDeb @ 46
Yeppers!
These debates probably get less than ten percent of the public tuning in. Tomorrow the press will tell us- “there was a debate”. Can’t see how the damned things can make much difference- it’s WAY too early- just a way for cable networks to provide low cost programming.
Well here’s the thing:
1. this is NH which has high viewership tonite
2. this is the base (us) the only people watching tonite.
I’d bet Hillary won a few on both scores – betcha Obama didn’t. Edwards – not sure.
Hill — first 100 days, bring troops home
BA: that and health care
Richardson: schools
Woah! Biden made a good point about public financing of elections. Who knew?
Maybe we invite him on to talk about it?
Richardson says pay teachers more. Hands?
Nothing on global warming I notice.
Loo Hoo. @ 40
National bill on public funding of elections (”Clean” elections bill). His best answer of the night.
Bill Richardson advocating civics in HS as a priority during first hundred days! Good!
Bob in HI
Yes, Hillary is doing a magnificent job. “first 100 days…bring the troops home”
Jane Hamsher @ 52
He’s probably really tired of sucking up to DuPont and the credit card companies.
Loo Hoo. @ 53
Yes please!
Jane Hamsher @ 52
Sure! If he doesn’t yell at us.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 54
earlier
Jane Hamsher @ 52
Check out his personal financials — for a guy who’s been in the congress his whole life, he’s barely a millionaire. unlike some others, like rgjoe.
Tom Watson @ 49
As someone who is not sure who I will vote for in the primary I can say that no one has brought me to their side with this debate. I don’t see how Clinton won, unless CNN and other cable news say that Obama or Edwards did not.
Jane Hamsher @ 52
All things considered I’d rather the invite go to the honorable Al Gore. ;~)
Dodd –restore constitutional rights on day ONE.
Hillary: first 100 days bring troops home assuming that bush has down nothing.
Obama: same assuming nothing changes
Richardson: education education education
Biden: end war in Iraq, defuse possible war in iran.
Kucinich: stop funding war now. cancel nafta cafta bi-laterla trade
Gravel: these people could stop war now
Dodd: restore constitutional rights first day, not leave it any longer.
gravel will restore the constitutional rights to the citizens….
good on him
Dodd: IN first 100 days, would restore Constitutional rights!
Bob in HI
Jane Hamsher @ 52
WHy not? but block the all-caps key
Bob Schacht @ 55
Civics were a requirement in my michigan high school my freshman year! This was 1991 mind you, i have no idea what the hell they’ve done to the curriculum since i’ve graduated. *sighs*
I still remember all those lessons on it. It shocks me that it ISN”T a requirement in other states.
Loo Hoo. @ 52
As a teacher I would like to get paid more for sure. Our gov. (AZ) is trying to raise our pay and I thank her.
I thought that Biden did a good job. Of course with him I set low expectations so..
So, we need to get scarecrow some disinfectant ahead of Tuesday night’s debate. He’ll need a bucket full before that night is over.
I’ll tell you one thing. I love the CNN election music.
-GSD
Hillary certainly did well, I think.
Dodd also.
Not so much Biden or Richardson.
Wolfie: You’re going to want to see that debate as well
STFU Wolfie, maybe I don’t
Jane Hamsher @ 52
Yes! Please!
Bob in HI
I thought Hillary won. Great job!
aliasofwestgate @ 68
As a fellow Michigander, I too had civics in 11th or 12 grade.
Jane Hamsher @ 52
Very, very good idea!
Love Dodd’s last answer.
Well, I thought Obama was great for 40 minutes and then tanked. I thought Edwards was shaky for 40 minutes and then recovered a little bit. Hillary didn’t make any big mistakes, so she probably comes out well.
I think the Democrats came out well in general.
Ha! I didn’t see there was a new thread. For my liveblogging see previous 2 threads. Hope this helps. I’m tired.
RevDeb @ 72
he should probably wear a moonsuit
I’m heading for the spin room, and probably won’t be able to come back on line. See you guys later.
I don’t think I can bear to hear the spin. They are trying to set up a mud wrestling bout between all the dems over the war
Candy Crowley is one big bowl of CW, isn’t she?
Arrow up:
Hilliary
Dodd
Biden (Public funding of elections)
Neutral
Richardson
Edwards
down slightly
Obama
Kucinich
Gravel
My $.02
In my movie the part of candidate Bill Richardson will be played by Horatio Sans.
-GSD
leslie @ 66
That was Dodd…
call-ins on the debate coming up on CSPAN 1
egregious @ 81
you are a roxstar!
I hate to admit it but Clinton did better in this debate than I would have expected. Edwards (my favorite) didn’t do as well as I’d hoped, but he held his own. Obama flubbed some major questions. Dodd did well. Clinton, I think did better on style than on actual substance– was better at giving slogans than saying much meaningful.
This isn’t a good format for thoughtful debate which deals with in-depth issues. It’s easy for thoughtful candidates to get lost in the shuffle.
Where’s Bill clinton? I see Elizabeth.
Scarecrow @ 83
stay safe
Hillary did very well – which doesn’t make me terribly happy. I still see her as the candidate most likely to lose a general election.
GSD @ 87
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001295/
Scarecrow @ 83
Thanks!
More pay for teachers can be achieved through unionization (American Federation of Teachers).
dakine01 @ 88
Yup. i blew it
But it was a great answer.
I remember having American History and Civics related classes in all four years. The last year was devoted to ‘Problems of Democracy’ where we observed the spin and politics and debated it all in class. We had to follow newspapers, magazines, presidential speeches. That was probably the most fun class i had regarding the subject. It was the last mandatory class for seniors! MANDATORY!
If it’s no more, i’m not suprised where this current crop of students is so dense about things.
TeddySanFran @ 64
GREAT!
JPL @ 21
Speeches hide the fact that he is too ill-informed to provide plausible answers, much less viable solutions.
Vets have to go to the VA ’cause the drugs are cheaper?
“Rich” is over $200,000?
Senator Obama, don’t look now, but you’re a registered Democrat.
I know – your DLC heart just couldn’t restrain itself.
You’re in love with the Money Party.
Poor Obama – so ambitious, so ignorant.
If he’d only registered R, they’d be begging him to run for Prez.
With the ambition, entititlement, and ignorance, he’s a perfect Gooper candidate.
Great suits, though.
Musta cost a grand each.
egregious @ 81
I wondered what happened to you!
thank you so much!
TeddySanFran @ 90
Oh, EG. Thanks.
TeddySanFran @ 85
You’re too kind but then we all know what a gentleman you are.
dakine01 says
June 3rd, 2007 at 6:01 pm
down slightly
Obama
Kucinich
Gravel
did you make that call before or after Mrs. Kucinich hit the stage?
leslie @ 98
Yes it was. I think he got it even before he came and vlog’d the other day and saw the concern many here have about the Constitution…
In my obsessed opinion, the single most important issue (after allowing Cuban bands to tour the US), is 100% PUBLIC FINANCING OF ALL ELECTIONS. I may yet vote for Biden. Until we completely cut the corporations out of the electoral process, government is doomed to corruption. It’s so blatantly obvious that I can’t understand why everyone isn’t screaming it from the rooftops.
ESPECIALLY BALLOT INITIATIVES!
And it should be a felony to put anything false or misleading in a campaign commercial.
dakine01 @ 85
Agree with that – tho I’d put Gravel down big-time.
Scarecrow @ 83
THANK YOU!
aliasofwestgate @ 69
Civics has been de-emphasized because English and Math are the keys to assessing schools in NCLB. Of course, Bushies don’t seem to care much about Civics.
Bob in HI
Scarecrow @ 83
Remember to take your Dramamine, Scarecrow.
aliasofwestgate @ 98
In Michigan the only requirement is a civics course. Each district would decide what type of cirriculmm to use…then teacher decide how to teach that class.
So you probably had a different type of class then anyone who did not attend your school.
jayt @ 105
Before
Jim McGovern is on Hillary’s team????
Bowl of CW? Hmmm CW? Country Western? No – that can’t be it. Cow Wedgies?
All but two did well tonight. Yes… Senator Clinton did quite well.
jayt @ 94
Against that batch of whores?
“My grandmother said, the intention to deceive, is the same as a lie”. Elizabeth Edwards (talking about Decider Commander Guy)
aliasofwestgate @ 69
It is required in PA, in 8th grade, though it goes by different names. My future-liberal voter of a daughter regularly torments her Republican civics teacher.
She also torments the ass’t principal who is US Army Reserve and served a year at Guantanamo. On his third day back, she grilled him about whether or not he tortured people.
She’s got a future as a blogger. LOL
TeddySanFran @ 114
Sadly, yes.
I would like to ask the MEDIA which of them read the National Intelligence Estimate, now that they’ve decided it’s so important who read it when we were lied into war.
Tom Watson @ 108
Well, that’s why I had him at the bottom. Unlike the first debate, his crankiness didn’t serve him well tonight.
rwcole @ 115
conventional wisdom
Loo Hoo. @ 117
Been lurking, but Loo Hoo, this was hilarious.
Tuesday night I will be listening for Wolfie to ask the repubs how they would use George W.
Teddy—Ah— well- conventional anyway-
I’m not sure who won, who lost, yadda yadda … but compared to the chest-thumpin’ “Let’s double Gitmo!” tenor of the Republican debate, who can say the Democrats don’t have ideas?
I think overall the Democratic brand (amorphous though it may be) did well in the sense that it looked to the future more than the Republican debate did.
Ya know, JIm McGovern, Hillary doesn’t have but six more months experience in the USSenate than Edwards. I’m tired of people talking about all her experience.
TeddySanFran @ 121
Top Secret!
Loo Hoo. @ 117
As long as they are repig whores, they will vote for them and Hill gives them extra added motivation to do so.
Loo Hoo. @ 117
based on polls showing that at least 45% of the general population wouldn’t vote for Hillary come hell or high water.
Which means that she’d essentially have to run the table with the remaining 55%.
True. We were only one of 3 major high schools in our county seat of a city. The actually had some money to spare for students at the time. But this was also the 90s. *sighs* I would have hoped that they had something similar to that in other places elsewhere though.
At least two of my major classes as a senior were centered on debate and deconstruction of subjects. It makes me very annoyed to hear that classes like that are casualties of NCLB, regardless of individual school district curriculum. They teach the most to students, instead of just rote learning.
Who is Jim McGovern?
TeddySanFran @ 128
Ding!
Goopers are kinda dead in the water- Clusterfuck ruint damn near every gooper idea hatched in the last twenty years- he ruined most of em by tryin em out and provin that they don’t work. He ruint the rest by running em up the flagpole and gettin em shot full of hole. Candidates are having trouble comin up with any recognizable gooper thing ta say that Clusterfuck hasn’t pissed all over.
jeez, AC360 is now interviewing Wolf about how the candidates did.
Loo Hoo. @ 133
Rep from MA who is one of the strongest anti-war advocates. It is PAINFUL that he is already in Hill’s camp. It’s payback for something. . . I can’t remember what.
AC is at least a relief compared to Wolfie..
Wow, Wolfie likes himself.
Loo Hoo. @ 133
US Rep from MA
I am still a Gore supporter.
Wolfie calls the Dems “feisty”. When will this transmogrify into a “shrill” narrative. Just wondering.
Did Wolfie just take somethin out of his beard and put it in his mouth?
Loo Hoo. @ 133
here ya go
obsessed @ 107
As Josh said on ‘The West Wing’, ‘we’ve legalized bribery’
I went to Arianna’s site [and CNN] attempting to locate her live blog but couldn’t find anything. Anyone have a link?
rwcole @ 135
ROTFLMAO
Yah, but they got Law ‘en Order Fred. That’s all they need!
Zee @ 139
Unfortunately, we noticed…
Zee @ 139
That’s news?
solai @ 56
Did she say ALL the troops?
Did she say anything about the permanent bases in Iraq?
I think I’m done with Richardson. Crossing him off my list…now.
Where’s Al Gore? Even Gore Vidal would make this more interesting.
rwcole @ 143
his comb. oh — no, that’s the other wolfie
Sorry to hear that Richardson didn’t do well. I was hoping for a governor.
Clinton did say something about getting out of Iraq. Didn’t she? Actually, I’m glad she has someone like McGovern around.
teeboy @ 142
very soon.
i can’t wait for tuesday’s show, when wolfie gets to slobber over the gopers.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 141
Think Hillary would accept VP if former Pres. Gore asked her? heh heh – I know, I live in a dream world cause reality is just too too nerve wracking.
MarkH @ 150
nope. That day will come when W. admits he made a mistake.
RevDeb @ 149
Nah, that review of how he thought he did was like he was talking to himself in the bathroom mirror. Kinda like Stewart Smalley.
Zee @ 123
Comment of the night – easy call!
rwcole @ 143
You fracture da brat! FOFLOL
In my book, Kucinich won the whole thing, because his wife is simply gorgeous! I’ll vote for him just to see her more often.
newspaperbrat @ 157
na ga happen
Oy, a special on CNN about where the top 3 Dem Pres candidates stand on Faith & Politics. How many times must Thomas Jefferson spin in his grave.
I’ll listen in, though, becuz that softer side of politics thingy is so darn intrestin’
At the end of the day, I will support the nominee of my party.
Listening to CSPAN and a women just said she was for Clinton but now likes Kucinich.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 165
I hope its not worst case scenario for you, OK.
RevDeb @ 136
Nah, he just believes she’d be the best President of the United States. I heard him say so. Or are you calling McGovern a liar?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 164
I agree
buckley @ 166
Any drainage from Hill is a good thing.
AC360 looks really frightened of Bill Richardson. Like a mouse and a bear.
New thread upstairs
Maybe they should have an evening gown and a bathing suit segment to the debates.
I do think the best comment from the candidates tonight was from Biden on public financing of elections.
New thread.
Tom Watson @ 168
Just calling him a politician.
solai @ 145
If Jane gets him to the Lake, the other candidates will find out how important it is to all of us.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 174
I think I agree with that.
Sigh. Why didn’t Wolfie ask this this?
If you could screw Paris Hilton and get away with it, would you?
Jane Hamsher @ 178
With Dodd saying restore the Constitution on first day the runner-up
Biden surprised me most.
Tom Watson @ 160
Just gut, but thanks!
Where’s our lolo?
Just wanted to say, this is my first time live blogging a debate and it was a LOT of fun. Thanks to FDL for hosting it. I’d brought up MyDD, KOS and FDL and by the end of the evening, FDL was the only thread still open in my browser.
Y’all are insane, but in a really good way. Now that it’s bedtime, I can get up and not worry about the cat stealing my chair, so I’ll see y’all later.
–Julie
P.S. Here’s a hummingbird, for good measure:
Biden talking about the money raising because he isn’t raising nearly enough.
Biden now on w/larry king talking about the “obscene” spending on this election already.
I like that. Too bad I’m still not a big Biden fan. But he was right on with this one.
Oops– never mind. The hummingbirds are here :-)
I still feel good about Dodd. We have some strong candidates.
No matter who is the candidate, keep your activism alive. They forget seconds later. The people remember. Terribly disappointed, again.
dakine01 @ 106
LONG before. The Restore-the-Constitution plank has been in his platform for MONTHS. His “Restoring_the_Constitution_Act_of_2007″ was introduced with Sens. Leahy & Menendez on Feb. 12. Sen. Dodd first introduced his bill last Congress and after working with human rights groups and experts in military law, Sen. Dodd was joined by Senators Robert Menendez (D-NJ), Patrick Leahy (D-VT) and Russ Feingold (D-WI) introducing the measure again in the 110th Congress.
Also, Biden on CNN right now talking about the obscene expenses of political campaigning, which follows up on his statement during the debate about passing Clean Elections (public funding) legislation.
Bob in HI
larry king w wolfie – where’s scarecrow????? when’s scarecrow coming on to talk??
I’m with OKkiddo and Jane. Yellow Dog democrat suits me. No Iraq invasion and occupation if not for Nader.
Julie at 183 Y’all are insane, but in a really good way.
We live to serve. Glad you liked what we are doing here at the lake.
I wonder what people saw to criticize about Obama. He seemed very intelligent and capable to me. The only ones that had “passion” were Kucinich and Gravel. And they don’t seem balanced even though they have very good points. I appreciate a candidate who is thoughtful and reasoned. I liked that he questioned the national language question. I believe anyone who criticizes Obama just happens to prefer another candidate. That’s fine.There are a lot of good people, and it is not a zero sum situation — in my opinion.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 116
NOTHING will energize the Republican Base more that Hillary being nominated. For the good of the Party, for the good of the Country, for the good of the World, she should get out now! Stop this vanity campaign project and show some selfless patriotism for once in her life.
“reestablish prestige of US” ?!?
Folks, i’m a furriner, and i gotta say : fat chance. Your moral standing overseas is absolutely FUBAR. To get the moral highground back you need to accomplish the following within about a year :
a) get the heck out of iraq, including donating your “embassy” to the UN
b) ratify Kyoto
c) tell Israel to make peace with Palestine or they’re on their own.
d) quit the “last superpower” stance. sure, you are the last superpower, but you’ve proven that you can’t be trusted. anything less than a 30 minute humility speech in front of the UN won’t cut it.
oh, and before you try to establish democracy abroad, install it in the U.S., cos technically you live in a republic (see ->Electoral College). but that’s less important public relation-wise.