The Democratic Presidential Candidates are all in New Hamshire tonight for a televised debate. CNN, one of the co-sponsors, will have live coverage starting at 7:00 p.m. EDT for the two-hour event, plus a "spin" session afterwards. I'll be there.
At Jane's suggestion, we obtained
need to be asked not only their positions on the occupation but also their explanations for why they've been unable so far to deliver on the implicit promise they made last November to end the occupation. And they need to respond to the White House stories that the US is there to stay. Do they think this is Korea, and if not, then what? What do they intend to do about the ever changing phony stories this White House has created just in the last six months alone? Are the Dems committed to ending the occupation, and if so, how will that be done? And why do a couple of them think that leadership is waiting until the last minute on the funding vote to see how the other votes?
Close behind Iraq should be questions about our intentions and policies toward Iran and the Israeli war with Palestine, along with spreading violence in Lebanon. Do they see that the predictions about simultaneous civil wars in the Middle East are all coming true? How do they explain its causes and solutions? And do they see a link between their own careless rhetoric and the Bush/Cheney regime's Jekyll and Hyde approach to foreign policy? These people owe us answers other than "I can be tough too." Are we really stuck with expecting the incompetent Rice to keep the crazy Cheney in check while the President of the US babbles incoherently and people die?
Domestic issues should receive at least equal time -- universal health proposals, immigration, equal pay for women -- and what about that Supreme Court case, folks? -- just to name a few. The candidates all support the goal of universal health something -- but it's usually not universal care so much as universal insurance coverage requiring and expanding the role of the insurance industry. Why does that make sense? Why are they asking employers to be the vehicle, and why aren't there elements of single payer systems in their proposals. And do we really have to accept a very gradual phase in, as some suggest, and how long will it take to get everyone covered? The could spend the night on global warming, so I'm hoping for more than the obligatory question about whether they support the WH's head fake last week. And how do these candidates connect their climate policies with their energy strategies. Do they have any clue about hard this is and how much leadership it will take? Do any of them it in them?
I'm hoping that Wolf and/or the audience will be concerned enough about the assualt on the rule of law to ask a lot of tough questions on Gonzales, torture and Guantanamo, the MCA, CIA programs, warrantless surveillance and so on. They could spend a whole night on that as far as I'm concerned. But I want to know what the Congress intends to do about these abuses and when, because it's not getting better, it's just getting more embedded in our system. I'm not sure whether the Senators can be asked about impeaching Gonzales, but the issue of his leadership and it's connection to the White House criminality need to be made. There are dozens more questions I'd like to ask these people, and I'm sure all of you have more.
While they were running security check of the venues this afternoon, I drove over to a local restaurant for a late lunch, and couldn't help overhearing some of the locals. They're talking about the debate, they know it's here and they're interested. But the conversations I overheard were about whether Hillary, being a woman, could put aside her innate female emotionalism and be a tough President; about whether they really believed this global warming hoopla; and about whether Obama was really a Muslim. Fox may not be sponsoring the debate, but it sure has framed it. Now I know why the candidates have to say some of the things they do.
I'll add updates as I can during the debates, so feel free to comment along.
******
7:20 p.m. Update: Clintons sees Edward's "it's not a war on terror; that's a bumper sticker" statement as a opportunity to sound tough by reinvoking 9/11, but she's embracing the Bush talking point.
To: Biden: why was he the only one on the group to vote for the Supplemental? Did anyone here an answer? "I'd don't want to judge my friends." Will someone ask how they expect to end this?
Edwards points out that Clinton and Obama waiting to last minute to announce their vote; that's not leadership, but Obama says Edwards is 4 1/2 years late on "leadership." And Hillary says this is George Bush's war -- asserting herself to speak for the group. "The differences between us are minor; the differences between us and the Republicans is major." She's won the rhetorical point and Edwards seems on the defensive, IMO. Iranic that Obama and Clinton join to neutralize Edwards.
Dodd finally gets a chance to speak, 18 minutes in, but his not on the issue they've been discussing, nor is Richardson.
UPDATE: 7:30 p.m.
Biden finally gets to the responsibility of Bush and the Republicans; all the votes are meaningless, he argues, until they get a new President or 60 votes.
Now Hillary tries version 721 of why she got hoodwinked by Bush. So it wasn't here mistake, even though she didn't read the intelligence reports in full. She's left herself open again; if she thought the inspectors needed to finish their job, you shouldn't authorize war -- doesn't anyone know how to vote note or write a condition?
Obama lets Edwards stay in the race even though he voted for authorization. He attacks the "fear mongering," but doesn't take the opportunity to support this reframing away from "war on terror."
Hillary trying version 722. She needs to be asked, why did you trust George Bush when others saw he shouldn't be trusted? Why did you miss this? Gravel says it's a matter of judgment.
UPDATE: 7:45 p.m.
On to immigration -- Richardson argues the proposal is not amnesty. Fence not needed. Biden points out impossibility of rounding up/deporting 12 million. A president sometimes needs to be "practical." "Being practical" draws a laugh from the reporters in the gym. Obama agrees with Richardson, Biden -- but acknowledges need for "securing the border."
Democrats vote against making English the "official language," and people applaud. Obama -- it's a way to divide us. I think Wolf was surprised that this means Lou Dobbs might be a demogague. Dems are united and articulate on this. Well done. A proud moment.
On the health care and how to pay for it. Edwards -- "we can't do it all for nuthin." Obama focuses on driving down costs by "taking on the insurance companies" but doesn't explain how. Clinton thrilled that "universal health care" back on the agenda. What she learned from past: need political will and broad coalition to withstand the challenge from big pharma and big insurance -- she's playing their leader again, and the rest have to listen.
Richardson, Dodd, just piling on the Democratic argument. The message I'm hearing from Democrats is clear; we stand for universal health care, and the rest is details. Edwards hammers on making sure everyone is covered. On this issue, the "debate" is a lovefest. Hillary is beaming to be in the middle, just smiling, to be in the exchange between Obama and Edwards.
Single payor system finally introduced -- and gets an ovation.
(AP Photo/Jim Cole)
Login Here
Share This
Spotlight
Go Al Gore!! (and if not Al, then I think Edwards/Obama would be a winning ticket.)
PS, I have no hope of ZEDitude.
—> added in edit: Where IS everybody? :)
———
(Click on my .SIG above)
Hello Scarecrow and SOS! Can’t wait to see this.
Why, in the pre-debate, do we have Lou Dobbs interviewing Ed Rollins?
Good evening; folks are still back on Book Salon, which is fine; it’s a great discussion. They’ll be along soon.
YeeHaw, let the games begin!!!
Julie Waters @ 3
Good question; earlier they had Carville and Brazille.
I am glad that one of us will be there to report un-spinnedly. Thanks, Scarecrow, for being there so that I (among many others) will not have to watch.
It’s just too damn bad that you won’t be able to question the candidates directly. I just bet their heads would explode!
After seeing the odious Brian Williams doing the questioning on the first debate, I would hope the odious Wolf Blitzer is an improvement.
I won’t be holding my breath…
I’m not even clear on why Carville’s relevant :)
pork chops, taters and gravy, dakine!
Loo Hoo. @ 10
Actually today was meatloaf, potatos, peas, biscuits, and brown gravy.
Will Judge Walton:
Reward Loyalty to the President or Punish Obstruction of Justice?
Firepups wanna know! I’ve just made my sixth consecutive monthly contribution of $25.07 to support FireDogLake’s history-making Live-blogging, insightful articles and the best commentarial analysis in the Blogosphere - and it feels great!
Please join Jane and Marcy for Libby Sentencing Live-blogging from Judge Walton’s DC Courtroom on Tuesday!
And Please Donate Today!
Just a general technical note - when working on a live broadcast any crew that have even a remote chance of being in camera view wear black. It lessens the possibility of being seen, particularly in reflections. It’s neither a fashion statement, nor a funeral observation. Not to nitpick, but just for general knowledge.
Here’s some background and perspective on Iraq, that’s probably way too hot too handle for a corporate television candidacy in America today. But maybe some of the questions from audience members will touch on it, at least, up there in “Live Free or Die” New Hampshire:
Re-acquaint yourselves with Moqtada al-Sadr: the young Shia Iraqi cleric (and Iraqi nationalist) whom Reuters labels a “radical anti-American” in its reporting [imagine the nerve of being opposed to an uninvited occupying Army that is thwarting all attempts by Iraqis to unify Iraq into a whole and intact “unfailed state,” as it simultaneously tries to “legally” steal your immensely valuable natural resources out from under you…].
The UK’s Independent on Sunday interviewed al-Sadr this week. This important article backs up other recent reporting about al-Sadr’s attempts to negotiate with Sunnis (and others, including SCIRI) for a peaceful and more effective resistance to the occupying American military.
Here’s a snip:
Http://news.independent.co.uk/.....609310.ece
The Associated Press also has an article out today, reporting on an interview with a Sunni leader and parliament member (Saleh al-Mutlaq), who is likewise calling for Iraqis to unite in opposition to the American-puppet figurehead Iraqi government in order to resist the occupation and the unwanted foreign influence in their affairs:
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap.....wmaker.php
The solution to our occupation of Iraq really does start with describing our presence in Iraq for what it in fact is: an unwelcome military occupation of a sovereign nation. If a Member of Congress (or candidate for President) can’t or won’t clearly state that, then their underlying premise must be (or must be inferred to be) that Americans have the right, or the obligation, or even the moral authority, to be present with armed force in Iraq against the will of the Iraqi citizens for the good of the Iraqi people if they but knew it and for our own “strategic,” “security” purposes, whatever they may be. That’s supreme “master race” arrogance, flies in the face of international law and treaty, and our own laws and Constitution, yet happens to be the currently operative and highly immoral “foreign policy” of the United States of America, as supported by both the Executive and Legislative Branches of our federal government.
I’ve noticed a tendency by our legislators to wish to see themselves as modern-day “Schindlers” where Israel (or at least A*P*C) is concerned. They seem to think we are still fighting a war of the last century. But this century’s industrial-strength (American) war of choice is instead violently endangering innocent Arabs, not Jews or the nuclear-armed nation of Israel, and thus today’s Schindlers will be those among us who work and strive to safeguard the lives of endangered Arab citizens (see, for example, Sweden and its Iraqi refugees). Notably, neither A*P*C nor Israel’s government appear to be willing to aid in that struggle to save innocent Arab lives, despite the tragic history of their own Semitic peoples in WWII. Will today’s strong though mostly-hidden racism against the Arab and Muslim citizens of the world lead to the same sort of dehumanizing catastrophe that last century’s strong and not-so-hidden racism brought to bear in the German Final Solution decimation of the Jewish citizens of the world?
Or will America finally come to its senses and return in time to its founding principles of liberty and justice for all?
Please excuse the comment “not
related” to post. We are running late and scrambling to get the word out.
NOTICE:
Live Chat Tonight during Dem debate
@ The
Blue State
In a progressive blogosphere first, we will unveil “The Blue
State Live Chat” during the Democratic Debate.� You will be
able to chat in real time with other fellow progressives about your favorite
candidate(s) as you watch on CNN.� We have never tried this before.�
All you need to do is enter a nickname and start yapping away.� We hope
you all will join us at 7 PM ET tonight.
The live chat is in real time
- You can chat with other progressives as the debate happens.
- You don’t need to sign up.� Just enter a nickname and start chatting.
- Debate starts @ 7 PM ET.
�
�
[Mod Note; really? A progressive blogosphere first? Interesting.]
Julie Waters @ 9
He’s not except in his own mind and the minds of his CNN masters.
Scarecrow @ 6
The Corporate Media likes to interview DINOs instead of Democrats.
Scarecrow,
Glad you didn’t get lost on your way there!
Nothing about global warming?
Scarecrow @ 4
Scarecrow~! How exciting to have you there for us today! And they are off…
First stupid question asking about how the Bushies have thwarted terrorism—don’t they deserve credit?
I’m gonna puke.
Good thing I poured myself a double stinger before this started.
oooh, i wanna stinger!
Good thing is right, RevDeb! Daniels here.
TeddySanFran @ 21
come on over!
Edwards good, Teddy.
Hillary looks great!
hopefully cnn won’t f*ck this up….
Wolf to Obama: Does the Bush admin Sen deserve ANY credit for making sure there has been no attack in US since 9/11?
Swallow much kool-aid Wolf?
wolf to Edwards What about calling GWOT a bumper sticker slogan
Edwards: That’s exactly what it is.
To Clinton: Do you agree with Edwards?
Clinton no I do not. I’m senator from NY and seen what they can do.
Why are Clinton and Kucinich on raised platforms?
Hillary looks better (beauty wise) every time I see her.
You sure this isn’t a Pox Noise debate?
Hill, just proved once again, why I won’t vote for her!!!
Kucinich quoting Ben fRanklin on those giving up liberty for security deserve neither…
calling out Biden on his supplemental vote
Biden, hsssssssss
TeddySanFran @ 32
lotta good that’s gonna do.
solai @ 28
Wow. That’s relevant. How about we talk about Biden’s hair now?
Camera work really sloppy
Question for Biden: Why were Hill, Obama Dodd wrong to vote against funding.
Biden: I’ll tell you why I was right to vote for it. We need to tell the truth now. 170k troops in harms way.
Scarecrow—
That’s an amazing list of questions. My question: how can we get YOU onto the talk shows?
wolf pushing Biden on why he won’t say the others wrong on voting against funding.
I couldn’t take 4 years of Biden’s voice.
Never seen Biden angry before
Biden refuses to attack others. Good.
TeddySanFran @ 36
Maybe we shoulda had Fox do it, instead!!! ;-)
I don’t see platforms.
I do not (again) understand the infatuation with Obama the public speaker. This guy is finding his way, word by word.
Hillary: I thought best way to support the troops was to bring them home. We’re all on this stage united in bringing the troops home safely.
Obama? everybody supports the troops. It’s how we do it that matters. Now Presdent talking about Korea where we’ve been sixty years…
Spazeboy just called me from NH, and he said the Lyndon LaRouche “singers” were outside the hall. Anyone who saw the final CT Senate Debate last year will remember those morons interrupting the debate with their singing several times. They were arrested in Hartford a few days later (and gave me some great footage for a fun video).
It’ll amaze me if these guys manage to disrupt this show, but you gotta give them credit for their capacity to cause trouble.
BTW, my blog has been locked by Blogger.com for the last few days because their robot thinks it’s a “spam blog”. Sorry for the lack of updates…I’m working feverishly to get my blog back.
Edwards praising Dodd for his leadership on the funding vote…
JE: “others went quietly to the floor of the Senate; Dodd led, others voted last, although they case the right vote.”
I like Edwards more and more each time I see him in action.
Edwards attacking Obama and Hillary. Hate to see that.
Edwards scolding Hill and Barack for late vote with no speaking to it ahead of time.
Obama is talking himself into a box: “troops on the ground”
Teddy, you told them to say occupation, and they keep saying war!
RevDeb @ 50
So far he’s got my vote, barring a late Gore run!!!
CTuttle @ 55
yep.
Obama trying slap down of Edwards for his initial vote for the original resolution .
Hilliary: This is GWB’s war. He started, he made it worse. We’re all trying to end this war of Bush’s…Our diffenrences are minor. The diffs between us and Repubs is major…
solai @ 51
How is it an attack to discuss their actions?
Hillary just did very well. Attacked Bush….which of course I like.
Dodd should not let them put him next to JE; he looks old.
I like Dodd’s hair, solai.
Loo Hoo. @ 54
Thinking same thing. Such a simple request.
Dodd: This policy in Iraq has failed.
I really like the positioning of Edwards, with Hill/Obama in his direct line of firing!!! :)
TeddySanFran @ 49
I have to say I liked that. Dodd deserves kudos for what he did, I like that Edwards gave it to him.
What about Edwards/Dodd? Joe Trippi is with edwards, that says a lot to me. I’ve been an edwards woman since 2004, go John. And Al.
PS Check out te Daily Howler of June 1 for even more reasons to love Al.
Get Blitzer off the stage. He is sucking up to much oxygen! This is going to be a 3 tier debate.
Richardson: Resolution to de-auth war. Wolf talking over and trying to be a bigger a** than usual.
Loo Hoo. @ 61
Uh oh, am I going to be a target tonight?
solai @ 51
He didn’t attack them– he pointed out a serious difference. Attacking is questioning their motives or their intent.
hey, MB — are you guys back from China? How was the trip?
Connecticut Bob @ 47
Thought you might be in NH too, Bob. Spazeboy was over here yesterday for coffee and said he was going. Just got into the college of his choice, too. I’m so proud of hi!
Gravel — “How do we know what will happen?”
Wolf doesn’t liek the answers he’s getting so is interrupting and talking over.
Gravel: They call it Bush’s war but they facilitated it by voting for it originally.
They talk about dominos sounds like Vietnam
Gravel/Paul 2008– Crazy Coots Who Make Sense!
Michael @ 67
It’s always all about him. From Day 1 in Iraq 1. Nothing has changed.
Scarecrow is evidently sitting next to Miss Laura in the spin room.
He’s worried he might need dramamine before the night is over.
Update at 7:20
solai @ 69
no, hon.
K: “This war has been based on lies” Go Dennis!
“Send no money — the war is over!”
Jane Hamsher @ 77
From the spin, not Miss Laura, by any means. Smart lady.
Hi Teddy! Wonderful, wonderful…loved Hong Kong, would move there in a heart beat. Sprout was THE best traveller, my worst fear went unrealized. Thanks for the tips, I told him and DB what you suggested and they both ROARED.
I still like Kucinich!!! sigh…..
Look, Hillary is tough on terror.
Biden is yelling again.
Biden is being “angry guy from a small state” tonite.
Julie Waters @ 9
I do not think he is relevant and I do not think he is a Democrat. He married Mary Matalin, who conspired with Cheney and Libby as part of the “Iraq Group“.
All Right!!! Some Fireworks!!! Where was the passion on the floors of Congress, last week???
Hill sez she didn’t count on the Prez going to war.
I can’t see any of this so I really appreciate the comments
and it’s cool that Scarecrow is there.
Everythingseemssoneat @ 84
she can terrorize the best of them
Kucinich: I honor the service of those who serve. But war based on lies. Bring em home and stop the funding. I think Dennis being a little unrealistic…
Biden: The repubs have not been telling truth from beginning. Let’s not stop telling the truth here. We have 50 votes in Senate. We need 67 votes. We’ll end war when we have Dem President.
Wolf to Clinton: Do you regret voting for war without reading the briefs?
Hill: I was thoroughly briefed by everyone. Vote was not unreasonable act to use inspectors and follow a process. GWB refused to follow the auth and use inspectors.
I don’t like Hillary saying “I was thoroughly briefed. I knew all the intelligence.”
Uh, no. You were told a lot of shit, girl.
JE: “I think I was wrong. I never should have voted for this war.”
Yep. So far Edwards is the man. I like Dodd more and more every time I hear him as well. Dodd’s profile has definitely been raised recently.
Edward says Obama was right, he was wrong. Imagine GWB EVER saying that.
Edwards saying I was wrong. I admit it. That’s the dif. between me and Hill.
edwards i wasnt on the intelligence committee i read info i had info that i needed. one difference i was wrong, obama deserves credit he was right i was wrong. important for anybody who seeks to be next president given dishonesty we have seen over last few years need president who will be open honest w american people
Edwards: We had plenty of info in vote. But I’ll admit I was wrong in my vote and applaud Sen Obama for being right by opposing from beginning.
obama: people were making best judgments at the time. chairman graham of florida intelligence cited that specifically why he voted against. i appreciate johns comment what i saw was a weak case by admin critical for us moving forward we are not gonna be able to have our troops in civil war and succeed. enormous distraction al Q opportunity to be successful but must finish the job
Wolf is still an a**. He’s obviously trying to stir up fireworks between the candidates.
Jane Hamsher @ 72
I came real close to going, but needed to cancel to do some home remodeling. I would have loved to been there just to torment the LaRouchies!
And YAY for Spazeboy! Good choice, IMO.
St. A’s!
Gravel cites more Americans killed in Iraq than on the eleventh of September
Gravil angry too. More dead Americans from occupation than 9/11.
TeddySanFran @ 86
is he baring his teeth?
Dodd Clock says we’re hearing more from the beard than anyone else.
Gravel: those who voted for the war have no moral judgement.
Gravel: we have killed more american than died on Spt 11. They do not have the moral authority to be President.
Hillary? We trusted the idiot.
gravel: knew 2 sets of intell at same time political decision. we have killed more americans than 11 sept that disqualifies people here for president. they dont have moral judgment
hrc/clinton: if i knew then wht i know now i would never have voted yes. bush made in speeches and in private many other countries sources was wmd what was wrong was the president misused authority we gave him
Mic problems — this is amateur hour. MSNBC is gonna be the star tonite!
How many more debates do we have suffer through with Gravel in attendance???
Jane Hamsher @ 107
cool graphic. Thanx!
I have to say that Hillary pounding the weapons inspector answer regarding the war authorization is about six degrees separated from the question.
I can’t believe 10% of the people who are listening know what she’s talking about.
TeddySanFran @ 111
My guess is infrastructure from WMUR in Manchester.
Richardson is trying for the Scoop Jackson Democrats’ votes. Or vote.
TeddySanFran @ 111
Wolf is the star. just ask him.
Richardson on immigration. I would not support legislation that separates families or walls.
1. Border patrols doubled
2. Earned legalization program
3. Penalize employers
CTuttle @ 112
Are Kucinich and Richardson owed a place in the debate and not Gravel?