zed?

not the zed

I think that if everyone weren’t so damned sick and tired of the Bush Crime family we wouldn’t be paying this much attention this early in the cycle.

That’s what I think.

Gosh I’m glad I’m gonna get to vote for one of them for President — and that one of them will BE President. It’s a helluva crowd.

RevDeb @ 3

I think that if everyone weren’t so damned sick and tired of the Bush Crime family we wouldn’t be paying this much attention this early in the cycle.

That’s what I think.

Yeah we’re all taking a bath in previews of coming attractions to get us through the horror show.

RevDeb @ 3

I think that if everyone weren’t so damned sick and tired of the Bush Crime family we wouldn’t be paying this much attention this early in the cycle.

That’s what I think.

And I think you’re correct. FWIW.

Soooo close! As to the debate, I didn’t watch. Yell at me if you want, but I can’t work up much enthusiasm for the 08 race yet. And no, I haven’t watched the earlier debates either.

I think these candidates so outclassed the opposition the debate was a slam dunk for the party of JFK, etc. et al.

Nice clip, FDLers. Shows how at ease and presidential Clinton was tonight. I’d forgotten the nifty Condi-Cheney dismissal…

Tom Watson @ 10

Nice clip, FDLers. Shows how at ease and presidential Clinton was tonight. I’d forgotten the nifty Condi-Cheney dismissal…

Trying to get Biden clip of public financing of elections up soon.

I think giving Blitzer the ability to craft who got how much time was absolutely lousy. He managed to give time in clear proportion to their standing — which only made the Gravel/Dennis/Biden tier frustrated and angry.

I think each candidate should be given exactly the same amount of time.

Jane Hamsher @ 11

Tom Watson @ 10

Nice clip, FDLers. Shows how at ease and presidential Clinton was tonight. I’d forgotten the nifty Condi-Cheney dismissal…

Trying to get Biden clip of public financing of elections up soon.

Biden is talking about the money raising because he isn’t raising nearly enough.

Biden best response by calling for public fianancing of elections
Dodd runner-up for saying he would restore the constitution first day in office

Wolfie is supposed to moderate the Republics on Tuesday. I would like for someone to do a compare between his performance tonight and his performance on Tuesday and then rub his nose in the discrepancies in treatment that I’m sure will be glaringly obvious to anyone with a brain. Olberman, Stewart or Colbert?

TeddySanFran @ 12

I think giving Blitzer the ability to craft who got how much time was absolutely lousy. He managed to give time in clear proportion to their standing — which only made the Gravel/Dennis/Biden tier frustrated and angry.

I think each candidate should be given exactly the same amount of time.

I think you are right but I am glad there were no bells or whistles or flashing lights. They give the debate a sort of gameshow feel.

JANE! This one was better than the first, stupid questions notwithstanding. And miles ahead of the rethugs. i liked Hill and Edwards. And Kucinich. I’m with Teddy, I could stand any of them (except maybe Toofs) for Prez.

AC360 talking to Dodd now — he never fails to impress.

I just can’t sit through the self-important inanity of the moderators. How bad was Wolf’s beard? (And by this I mean to mock Blitzer, his beard is his most redeeming feature.)

dakine01 @ 14

Biden best response by calling for public fianancing of elections
Dodd runner-up for saying he would restore the constitution first day in office

Wolfie is supposed to moderate the Republics on Tuesday. I would like for someone to do a compare between his performance tonight and his performance on Tuesday and then rub his nose in the discrepancies in treatment that I’m sure will be glaringly obvious to anyone with a brain. Olberman, Stewart or Colbert?

Hopefully all 3! Arianna certainly will.

I think Hillary took it, hands down. Sorry RevDeb.

lolo?

What did I think?

I think watching/reading all the FirePups’ comments FIRST before watching the debate on YouTube is the best way to go.

You guys made me laugh the whole time, so much less stressful to watch it vicariously through you first.

(Family had adverse possession of the tube for a movie — worked out fine. They were out of my hair and I could enjoy the debate comment feed.)

I think I’m still not sure who I support. I was split Edwards/Richardson. Now Richardson’s off my list. But I’m not 100% Edwards. I think I need to hear more about Dodd and Biden. I like some of what I’ve heard, but I haven’t heard enough.

I’m afraid part of why I like Edwards is that I like Elizabeth.

Biden’s comment on public financing was great. Maybe he could get his friends in the credit card industry to help with this from some of their bankruptcy boondoggle he helped set up.

I found Dodd impressive in his limited chances to speak and I also find him to be an honest broker out there (which just probably means my BS factor is down on him). That said, still hard to see him with a chance in this whole thing, but stranger things have happened (actually, they haven’t).

AC says Arianna is coming up on CNN. They make a nice couple I think.

Loo Hoo. @ 21

I think Hillary took it, hands down. Sorry RevDeb.

lolo?

She gets the nomination and I’m sitting this one out.

Jane Hamsher @ 11

Tom Watson @ 10

Nice clip, FDLers. Shows how at ease and presidential Clinton was tonight. I’d forgotten the nifty Condi-Cheney dismissal…

Trying to get Biden clip of public financing of elections up soon.

I think I was in EPUsville when I mentioned that if you can get Biden here, all of the candidates will know how we feel about campaign finance reform.

Blitzer was so HORRIBLE it was it was difficult to watch

RevDeb @ 26

Loo Hoo. @ 21

I think Hillary took it, hands down. Sorry RevDeb.

lolo?

She gets the nomination and I’m sitting this one out.

As long as you vote for Dems down ticket, Rev. They still need you. I sure hope a Repug sits out too, though.

I’m with OK kiddo that I will support the nominee of my party. It will be maybe with enthusiasm or maybe with regret but support the nominee I will.

RevDeb @ 26

Loo Hoo. @ 21

I think Hillary took it, hands down. Sorry RevDeb.

lolo?

She gets the nomination and I’m sitting this one out.

I would ask you not too. If Clinton get the nom we will need every vote we can get in order to keep a Republican out of the white house.

Teddy, can you please call Hillary about using the correct term on the occupation?

Getting here late, I liked Edwards, seems strong, and straight forward. Liked some of Hillary, some of Dodd

Rayne @ 22

What did I think?

I think watching/reading all the FirePups’ comments FIRST before watching the debate on YouTube is the best way to go.

You guys made me laugh the whole time, so much less stressful to watch it vicariously through you first.

(Family had adverse possession of the tube for a movie — worked out fine. They were out of my hair and I could enjoy the debate comment feed.)

gotta agree

Zee @ 23

I think I’m still not sure who I support. I was split Edwards/Richardson. Now Richardson’s off my list. But I’m not 100% Edwards. I think I need to hear more about Dodd and Biden. I like some of what I’ve heard, but I haven’t heard enough.

I’m afraid part of why I like Edwards is that I like Elizabeth.

Don’t be afraid….We’ve been stuck w/Ms Laura and the Lint Twins for the past tooooo many years.

And Elizabeth is a great influence on John.

Larry King should not wear those suit pants without the coat. He should have on a less in your face stripe rather than the gangster look.

So, the first half of the debate they get lecterns, the second half they get what look like seats stolen from the first class section of a TWA flight.

I think they should be given unicycles for the next debate.

Jane Hamsher @ 11

Tom Watson @ 10

Nice clip, FDLers. Shows how at ease and presidential Clinton was tonight. I’d forgotten the nifty Condi-Cheney dismissal…

Trying to get Biden clip of public financing of elections up soon.

That’s Biden’s high-water mark so far

Ugh. Wormtongue.

Rayne @ 29

RevDeb @ 26

She gets the nomination and I’m sitting this one out.

As long as you vote for Dems down ticket, Rev. They still need you. I sure hope a Repug sits out too, though.

No problem with the down ticket dems. But Hill is a DLC hawk.. There’s no way I can support her. And she will rally the wing nuts like there’s no tomorrow.

Gotta turn it off. Carville and Brazille are the dem pundits. Puke time again.

dakine01 @ 36

Larry King should not wear those suit pants without the coat. He should have on a less in your face stripe rather than the gangster look.

Zombies dont have good fashion sense.

I will support the nominee by voting for them but contributing money to them may be another matter.

I think Hillary, Dodd, Biden, and Edwards all did well. Obama and Richardson disappointed, Gravel is done; Kucinich did well-possible VP?

buckley @ 16

TeddySanFran @ 12

I think giving Blitzer the ability to craft who got how much time was absolutely lousy. He managed to give time in clear proportion to their standing — which only made the Gravel/Dennis/Biden tier frustrated and angry.

I think each candidate should be given exactly the same amount of time.

I think you are right but I am glad there were no bells or whistles or flashing lights. They give the debate a sort of gameshow feel.

True. Both of you.

So who does JC Watts want to be the Democratic nominee?

Hillary Clinton will be a disappointing nominee because she’s such a nasty warhawk. But any one of those candidates will be far, far better for this country than the torture-loving fascism dreamers of the GOP.

I have to agree with an earlier comment that it is now time for about 3 of them to drop out, so the rest will have a bit more time to give answers.

If a listener has to read between the lines and doesn’t realize Clinton’s “withdrawal” doesn’t really mean ALL, then they’re never gonna learn what the candidates are about.

I didn’t realize it, but the comments about Obama failing when the answers require more detail is probably an indicator he would fall further and faster if there were only about 4 candidates on-stage.

All supporters on the left of Obama or Hillary should think hard about who they’ll support if their particular candidate withdraws. I can’t see a supporter of Gravel or Kucinich or Dodd or Richardson ever going that far to the right. They’d practically have to repudiate their entire stance on the Iraq occupation.

It’s gonna get interestinger and interestinger.

I think Edwards did as well as Clinton. Most aggressive, straight answers.

buckley @ 31

RevDeb @ 26

She gets the nomination and I’m sitting this one out.

I would ask you not too. If Clinton get the nom we will need every vote we can get in order to keep a Republican out of the white house.

Frank33 @ 25

AC says Arianna is coming up on CNN. They make a nice couple I think.

Speaking of beards. Does Wolfie use the Miami Device?

-GSD

It will also be interesting to see which Dems and consultants analyze the Repub debate aftermath on Tuesday since I’m seeing Wormtongue then JC Watts then Donna Brazile. Yu-u-cch!

Hillary came out okay: perhaps I expected less. She stuck it to Wolf with his stupid hypotheticals. That’s good. Edwards: snippy and tried to hard. barack: kept no 2 slot. Wolf was looking to skewer and got smacked down a couple of times.

Overall ok: but I was not impressed with the questions by the two moderators. Those from the guests/voters/showed their pre-occupations and were sensible.

Tom Watson @ 38

That’s Biden’s high-water mark so far

Agreed. It was one of the few answers in this debate that caught me off guard.

TeddySanFran @ 12

I think giving Blitzer the ability to craft who got how much time was absolutely lousy. He managed to give time in clear proportion to their standing — which only made the Gravel/Dennis/Biden tier frustrated and angry.

I think each candidate should be given exactly the same amount of time.

Is it any different than the networks calling the Presidential election before polls close in the central time zone? Not really.

Democracy is a farce.

[yeah, I said it, but Pat Buchanon said it first.]

Carville reminds me of Fire Marshall Bill

You know, Carville and Kucinich’s ears are remarkably similar.

Hillary looks fantastic – I know, sexist to say so – but wow.

Taped speech of Law ‘n Order Fred on CSPan. inserted caption that he will announce formally “the week of July 2″ Any bets he does it on the 4th? How very patriotic of him to announce on the same date that Adams and Jefferson died.

Gosh, hasn’t the GOP found a good high-profile no real responsibility role for JC Watts? I sure hope so, he’s great!

teeboy @ 37

So, the first half of the debate they get lecterns, the second half they get what look like seats stolen from the first class section of a TWA flight.

I think they should be given unicycles for the next debate.

LOL!!!

J.C. Watts pappy told him what for. He said “A black man voting for a Republican is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders.”

-GSD

teeboy @ 37

So, the first half of the debate they get lecterns, the second half they get what look like seats stolen from the first class section of a TWA flight.

I think they should be given unicycles for the next debate.

707

omg another hour and 24 minutes of this commentary.

jc watts thinks wolf did a great job with all the egos on the stage.

RevDeb @ 40

Rayne @ 29

As long as you vote for Dems down ticket, Rev. They still need you. I sure hope a Repug sits out too, though.

Gotta turn it off. Carville and Brazille are the dem pundits. Puke time again.

Do they have to tell everybody they’re not just Democratic pundits, but supporters/operatives for a particular Dem candidate?

[Inverted quotes repaired by moderator]

buckley @ 31

RevDeb @ 26

She gets the nomination and I’m sitting this one out.

I would ask you not too. If Clinton get the nom we will need every vote we can get in order to keep a Republican out of the white house.

Nope. Electoral college.

In the heavy Dem vote states (I’m in CA), if the Dems anoint another DLC candidate, I’ll vote Green (the party, not Nader) and hope others in “safe states” do the same.

edit – still want to see the Dem win – but divert as much support as possible for Green policies.

Free trade cultists destroy Green policies.

No vote for Hillary here.

After 6000 dead Americans, 655,000 dead Iraqis and half a Trillion dollars I’m really starting to buy into the Hillary is tough on terror thing.

teeboy @ 37

So, the first half of the debate they get lecterns, the second half they get what look like seats stolen from the first class section of a TWA flight.

I think they should be given unicycles for the next debate.

They could get one of those extra tall ones for Dennis so he can be around the same height as the others.

Loo Hoo. @ 59

teeboy @ 37

So, the first half of the debate they get lecterns, the second half they get what look like seats stolen from the first class section of a TWA flight.

I think they should be given unicycles for the next debate.

LOL!!!

I thought they were gonna have naptime for the third round.

Blankies and futons for everyone.

-GSD

RevDeb @ 40

Rayne @ 29

As long as you vote for Dems down ticket, Rev. They still need you. I sure hope a Repug sits out too, though.

No problem with the down ticket dems. But Hill is a DLC hawk.. There’s no way I can support her. And she will rally the wing nuts like there’s no tomorrow.

Gotta turn it off. Carville and Brazille are the dem pundits. Puke time again.

Maybe I misunderstood for I thought Arianna was gonna comment.

GSD @ 60

J.C. Watts pappy told him what for. He said “A black man voting for a Republican is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders.”

-GSD

so does the reverse apply?

RevDeb @ 65

teeboy @ 37

So, the first half of the debate they get lecterns, the second half they get what look like seats stolen from the first class section of a TWA flight.

I think they should be given unicycles for the next debate.

He’d be best on a unicycle of these candidates – he could balance himself by flapping his ears.

They could get one of those extra tall ones for Dennis so he can be around the same height as the others.

Possible tickets:
Clinton/Obama
Edwards/Kucinich
Dodd/Kucinich
Biden/Richardson
Clinton/Richardson
Edwards/Obama

Gravel is insane. NO WAY would I want the Prez to have a line-item veto. ‘Earmarks’ need to be fixed in-house, with the congress

Arianna, Gergen, and some Murphy GOP guy on CNN now.

Everythingseemssoneat @ 64

After 6000 dead Americans, 655,000 dead Iraqis and half a Trillion dollars I’m really starting to buy into the Hillary is tough on terror thing.

don’t forget 25,000 wounded (Americans). Untolled number of Iraqis.

I think obama blew it…He doesn’t think well on his feet. Hillary came out well and knows how to snap a towel. Biden pounded the table with surprising pyth. I think Gore saw this and got closer to deciding to run.

Huff sez it was Hillary’s nite.

jcricket’s boy toy @ 73

I think obama blew it…He doesn’t think well on his feet. Hillary came out well and knows how to snap a towel. Biden pounded the table with surprising pyth. I think Gore saw this and got closer to deciding to run.

I HOPE so!

newspaperbrat @ 67

RevDeb @ 40

No problem with the down ticket dems. But Hill is a DLC hawk.. There’s no way I can support her. And she will rally the wing nuts like there’s no tomorrow.

Gotta turn it off. Carville and Brazille are the dem pundits. Puke time again.

Maybe I misunderstood for I thought Arianna was gonna comment.

They keep teasing her appearance to keep us watching while Wormtongue, Watts, Brazile, Wolfie,, and King try to sound erudite and involved. And aware of reality (V-e-r-y difficult for all of them to do)

lina- Good point.

I liked the replay of Biden saying that “the only one emboldening the enemy is Bush”

And Arianna isn’t being quite as hard on Hillary as usual just now.

Gergin says Hillary won.

Arianna says Hill was very successful.

Other guy: Hill did pretty well, but if you watch her with the sound turned off, she had problems. (???)

AC360 says hill tried to get a laugh on Cheney. I think Hill was surprised they laughed.

This murphy guy’s a boob.

The advertisements for the GOP debate are so CNN. It’s like a boxing match with all of their images popping onto the screen one after another. Gotta make old men look active, I guess.

I think they all should have beat up on W more. And Cheney.

You saw how the crowd reacted to Hill on Cheney’s “diplomacy” — they loved it. We need more active, outright, open mockery of our current Administration, their policies, execution, and hatefulness.

MarkH @ 62

RevDeb @ 40

Do they have to tell everybody they’re not just Democratic pundits, but supporters/operatives for a particular Dem candidate?

Ooh, Mark, be careful with the excising comment content. I didn’t say that bit about Carville and Brazile (although somebody did me the favor of saying it…).

[Mod: fixed]

Zee @ 54

Carville reminds me of Fire Marshall Bill

EPU’d from several exciting threads ago. But Carville is evil, and so is his wife Mary Matalin. She worked with Scooter and Darth Cheney to promote the Iraq War. If she has not committed crimes, she still is a vicious lying neo-con, helping raise money for Libby (as does Fred Thompson).

toobin: Hill’s best nite in public ever.

jcricket’s boy toy @ 73

I think obama blew it…He doesn’t think well on his feet. Hillary came out well and knows how to snap a towel. Biden pounded the table with surprising pyth. I think Gore saw this and got closer to deciding to run.

Did he? I don’t see that. I think Hillary was relxed, I don’t know that she won though. I think the three “top” all did well. I can’t vote for Clinton in the primary though because of her vote on Iraq. She can say she voted for it becuase she wanted to have the inspectors stay, but she voted for the use of force. That was not hidden from her when she voted.

Uh oh

via Atrios

MANCHESTER, New Hampshire (CNN ) – Columnist and author Eric Alterman was arrested Sunday night inside the debate spin room and charged with criminal trespass after police say he refused repeated orders to leave.

there’s more.

eRobin @ 56

Hillary looks fantastic – I know, sexist to say so – but wow.

Fantastic — now, if that were what was really important in a president.

Can you imagine anyone being concerned with whether Teddy Roosevelt was handsome?

Did it seem odd for her to say “we did it before” when talking about Bill Clinton’s administration balancing the budget? It certainly sounded odd to hear Newt Gingrich taking credit for balancing the budget. Why don’t we give credit to Al Gore, after all he broke the tie in the Congress to get the ball rolling despite not a single Repub vote (and Hillary wasn’t yet a Senator). Yay Al!

I was able to watch the first half of the debate and Hillary was great, as was Dodd. Unfortunately I missed the questions from the audience.

Edwards came across as sincerely trying too hard by knocking the others. He was a better fit running as VP with Kerry.

I heard Arianna will be chiming in on CNN so tuned out since she will be busy as usual knocking Hillary nonstop.

And then there’s Candy…and John King. Good Republics, all.

Actually, Teddy Roosevelt’s active Rough Rider public image, carefully crafted by a man who grew up as a sickly lad, was very important to his political success.

You can’t tell me that it was just luck of the draw that Senator Clinton was seated at the center of the stage.

You know, I can tactically agree with Hillary having done well, her answers are polished, blah, blah, blah, but as that MW Crowley said, as a woman she has to project a certain toughness…

Why is that? I’m not quite in RevDeb’s ’sit it out if Hillary wins’ camp, but I’m awful close. Is Hillary locked into this ‘I’m a tough broad’ schtick?

i’ve been in the anybody but hillary camp for awhile, mostly because i’m tired of hearing and reading about the clintons and i think we could all use a break from the clinton/bush endlessness. but geez, i’d love to see hillary on the stage against any republican candidate, she’d be totally dominant, win a lot of voters, and give a ton of ammunition to use against the—you know—sexists, nascar dads, wife beaters, wingnuts, etc.

Alterman got arrested?

eRobin @ 56

Hillary looks fantastic – I know, sexist to say so – but wow.

I thought she looked good, too. And it isn’t important to me, but there are people who do think it important. And they also vorw.

MarkH #88,
You’ve got a good point. It would be wise of the Democrats to take the budget issue away from the R’s by repeating that every time the question comes up-Not One Republican Voted for the Plan That Balanced the Budget.

Arianne trying to respond to Murphy contentions that Dems are weaker than they are…

dakine01 @ 36

Larry King should not wear those suit pants without the coat. He should have on a less in your face stripe rather than the gangster look.

But those suspenders are one of his trademarks, and he’s proud of them.

Bob in HI

The Rep debate was so painful I was ashamed for them. This was a little better. I am hungry for substance. What was there of substance worthy of the presidential seat of power in this debate? Maybe someone found something I missed. Hillary reminds me of the old regulars in Louisiana politics.

vorw = vote

I think I’ll turn on the lights now.

Ha! Gergan…Hillary beat back Blitzer, she won (paraphrasing)

TeddySanFran @ 72

Arianna, Gergen, and some Murphy GOP guy on CNN now.

Let’s see. A former GOP’er, a current GOP’er and and current GOP’er’s media flack.

Fair and balanced.

-GSD

jcricket’s boy toy @ 74

I think obama blew it…He doesn’t think well on his feet. Hillary came out well and knows how to snap a towel. Biden pounded the table with surprising pyth. I think Gore saw this and got closer to deciding to run.

Just the opposite – he saw Senator Clinton take another dogged step toward the nomination and ordered seconds on dessert.

TeddySanFran @ 90

Actually, Teddy Roosevelt’s active Rough Rider public image, carefully crafted by a man who grew up as a sickly lad, was very important to his political success.

Are you really trying to say Teddy Roosevelt was a success because he looked rough? Really? I suppose you also think Dubya is a great leader because he said “Bring it on!”

I didn’t watch the debate but I think it was Curlin by a nose.

Bob Schacht @ 99

dakine01 @ 36

Larry King should not wear those suit pants without the coat. He should have on a less in your face stripe rather than the gangster look.

But those suspenders are one of his trademarks, and he’s proud of them.

Bob in HI

I got no problem with the braces, I mostly wear them myself. Far more comfortable than wearing a belt. But just the look of that bright pin-stripe, gangster suit and the dark shirt was not a good look.

The view from here is that geting rid of the Republicans in 2008 is absolutely critical. People of principle may not be able to find it within themselves to vote for certain candidates. And I respect that.

GSD @ 49

Frank33 @ 25

AC says Arianna is coming up on CNN. They make a nice couple I think.

Speaking of beards. Does Wolfie use the Miami Device?

-GSD

Well, Yassir Arafat’s barber was unemployed. . .

Bob in HI

leslie @ 95

eRobin @ 56

Hillary looks fantastic – I know, sexist to say so – but wow.

I thought she looked good, too. And it isn’t important to me, but there are people who do think it important. And they also vorw.

Well, as long as they don’t biwu it’s cool.

RevDeb @ 88

Uh oh

via Atrios

MANCHESTER, New Hampshire (CNN ) – Columnist and author Eric Alterman was arrested Sunday night inside the debate spin room and charged with criminal trespass after police say he refused repeated orders to leave.

there’s more.

they’ll need one cell for him and one for his ego.

dakine01 @ 39

Ugh. Wormtongue.

Carville?

Bob in HI

No, I don’t think that. But I think that appearance has always mattered in modern Presidential politics. I was making a light point about your Roosevelt comparison, since you brought him up. I hardly deserve the charge of approving of W in any way, form, or forum.

I’m not neccessarily a Hillary fan, but in all fairness she seemed the most ready for primetime tonight.

Edwards’ messaging is much better than Obama’s.

Gore could do well if he decided to make a run.

TeddySanFran @ 90

Are you really trying to say Teddy Roosevelt was a success because he looked rough? Really? I suppose you also think Dubya is a great leader because he said “Bring it on!”

Roosevelt’s father instilled in him a great desire to be a force of good in the world. Things like creating the national park system was a direct result of his father’s great love of nature and the environment. His “rough rider” image gave him the public confidence to be a strong leader but he didn’t forget his past.

You can contrast this with G.W. Bush’s relationship with his father til the cows come home.

Bob Schacht @ 111

dakine01 @ 39

Ugh. Wormtongue.

Carville?

Bob in HI

Yeah. A few weeks ago, someone called his wife Cruella DeCarville and after a little discussion, I decided that Wormtonge was an appropriate name for him so we have Cruella and Wormtongue DeCarville…

I thought Edwards showed the most respect to the people in the audience, which I suppose one could call “authenticity.” Although I liked Hillary’s smackdown of Wolfie just fine.

And why is John King interviewing voters who haven’t decided between Democrats and the GOP? This is a primary debate, CNN, let’s keep it pure. Of course, all the commentators are GOP.

I thought Hillary did a great job. I have to agree with what David Gergen just said on CNN, she looked Presidential (and the other guys didn’t, really). She sounded authoritative, her answers were good. On the “would you assassinate Osama” question, she was able to say that her husband had tried to, which (though it didn’t work, obviously) sort of reinforced that she’s in a different tier than the other guys. She’s been around the block.

I thought Obama sounded somewhat tentative with some of his answers.

Kucinich is insane, obviously.

Edwards’ answer to “what will you do in your first 100 days” kind of stank. Travel the world in order to reassert America’s moral authority. This is dumb – you can assert America’s moral authority by staying in the U.S. and being a good leader. Whether the rest of the world will respect us again will depend on our actions and policies, not whether they get a visit from a President. Unless we’re talking about Gabon.

Dodd actually had one of the better answers to this question: restore the Constitutional rights in our country (he’ll do that on Day One).

I also thought Hillary looked fantastic. Her hair and makeup were really good. That buttery yellow undershirt she was wearing matched her hair exactly, her eyeshadow was subtle but tasteful, and I even like her modified mullet.

Obama looked best in the sitting position.

So, who had the best hair of the night. It should be Edwards hand down….

My rankings:
Top-hair – Obama, Edwards, Clinton, Dodd (I don’t know why, but it works!)
Good hair – Gravel, Biden
Beauty-school dropout – Richardson, Kucinich

Hillary and that make-up. She rocked!! They should have her stylist on Larry King later.

TeddySanFran @ 116

I thought Edwards showed the most respect to the people in the audience, which I suppose one could call “authenticity.” Although I liked Hillary’s smackdown of Wolfie just fine.

And why is John King interviewing voters who haven’t decided between Democrats and the GOP? This is a primary debate, CNN, let’s keep it pure. Of course, all the commentators are GOP.

New Hampshire has open primaries. An independent can go in to vote, declare a party, vote and then declare back to an independent immediately after voting.

CNN has found a woman who can’t decide between Republicans and Democrats.

Where can they have found such a person? I’m gobsmacked.

Uh, IIRC, T.Roosevelt actually took a bullet in the chest, went on to give a speech, and then went to the hospital. IMO, that is a tough guy. An imperialist, but a genuine tough guy.

ty

Damn Liberal press!

Apparently the Dems will just have to find a way to talk past the MSM and directly to the public. Maybe Hillary is wasting her time shooting down Wolf and should just dismiss him and then talk to the public.

I’d recommend that to any candidate so long as they use their time more productively than Blitzer wanted them to. After all, his hypotheticals are just another kind of gotcha wastes of time, aren’t they?

Larry King is having Dr Kevorkian on tomorrow nite! Octogenarian TeeVee!

TeddySanFran @ 122

ty

YW. That’s one of the reasons Pat Buchanan did so well one year. A lot of “independents” did a little sandbagging if you will. :})

TheOtherWA @ 8

Soooo close! As to the debate, I didn’t watch. Yell at me if you want, but I can’t work up much enthusiasm for the 08 race yet. And no, I haven’t watched the earlier debates either.

Me either. I haven’t watched any of them yet. But the Soprano’s was great tonite.

I think Hillary ‘connected’ better than the rest. Which is the whole point, IMO

Arianna has been showing a lot of cleavage lately, is she going through a midlife crisis?

RevDeb @ 88

Uh oh

via Atrios

MANCHESTER, New Hampshire (CNN ) – Columnist and author Eric Alterman was arrested Sunday night inside the debate spin room and charged with criminal trespass after police say he refused repeated orders to leave.

there’s more.

Can’t wait to hear his side of the story.

Obama kind of ignored the idea of continued moral high ground in prosecution of Bin laden.

Maybe he’s afraid there isn’t enough evidence to convict?

Why is Osama still not on the FBI ten most wanted list?

Maybe it points to a mossad cell I saw celebrating the towers collapse…

Why was a missile stirke on a building with children the issue, I think jawbreaker knew a time this was the case and Osama been forgotten…

So nice of Blitzer to forget who let Osama go and spin it vs. Dems, he knew what kind of answer Dennis K. would give.

Where did Arianna go? Was she arrested also?

Sparkles, I’m getting whiplash here.

Be great to see That Woman in the Oval Office. I love seeing her mixing it up with those manly males and she’ll not back down from any fool the Republic nominates.

I expect her answers to be “polished.” She didn’t just fall off the turnip truck, for gosh sake.

And, yes, she looked great. Bill must be beaming.

Candy Crowley with the big picture.

I’ll stop now.

ccmask @ 126

TheOtherWA @ 8

Soooo close! As to the debate, I didn’t watch. Yell at me if you want, but I can’t work up much enthusiasm for the 08 race yet. And no, I haven’t watched the earlier debates either.

Me either. I haven’t watched any of them yet. But the Soprano’s was great tonite.

Holy sh*t! I missed the Soprano’s!!! Forgot all about it, I’ll have to catch the replay. Grrr…

Buchanan ran hard against Pappy Bush and he must have dumped tons of money into a t.v. spot of Poppy Bush saying ‘Read my lips. NO new taxes!’

That spot ran so much I can still hear it.

Buchanan likened his followers to farmers with pitchforks. I likened ‘em Klansmen with torches.

-GSD

dakine01 @ 116

Bob Schacht @ 111

Carville?

Bob in HI

Yeah. A few weeks ago, someone called his wife Cruella DeCarville and after a little discussion, I decided that Wormtonge was an appropriate name for him so we have Cruella and Wormtongue DeCarville…

Well, maybe, but Wormtongue was the craven assistant of an evil master, usually operating in his master’s shadow, rather than in the camp of the opposition. So, while I like the label on one level, it doesn’t work on another level.

Bob in HI

TeddySanFran @ 136

Candy Crowley with the big picture.

I’ll stop now.

Why?

….knew of a time when this was not the case…
t

marshen @ 92

You can’t tell me that it was just luck of the draw that Senator Clinton was seated at the center of the stage.

TeeVee. Kinda like putting the tallest person in the center of a photo.

ccmask @ 126

TheOtherWA @ 8

Soooo close! As to the debate, I didn’t watch. Yell at me if you want, but I can’t work up much enthusiasm for the 08 race yet. And no, I haven’t watched the earlier debates either.

Me either. I haven’t watched any of them yet. But the Soprano’s was great tonite.

If I had HBO, that’s what would be on my tv. So I’m listening to Air America instead. :)

QUICKVOTE:

Deeper thinker?

A) Chris Matthews

B) Elizabeth Hasselbeck

RonD @ 120

Uh, IIRC, T.Roosevelt actually took a bullet in the chest, went on to give a speech, and then went to the hospital. IMO, that is a tough guy. An imperialist, but a genuine tough guy.

Wow! I’d never heard that before. That is indeed tough.

I wouldn’t even whiz on Mr. and Mrs. Carville if they caught on fire in front of me.

May their children join the Green Party.

-GSD

Twain @ 137

TeddySanFran @ 136

Candy Crowley with the big picture.

I’ll stop now.

Why?

Maybe because almost everyone on this partisan board could give a less cloying and more honest response. MW Crowley’s comments are so frickin’ Borderesque.

Everythingseemssoneat @ 141

QUICKVOTE:

Deeper thinker?

A) Chris Matthews

B) Elizabeth Hasselbeck

I vote C.

MarkH @ 144

RonD @ 120

Uh, IIRC, T.Roosevelt actually took a bullet in the chest, went on to give a speech, and then went to the hospital. IMO, that is a tough guy. An imperialist, but a genuine tough guy.

Wow! I’d never heard that before. That is indeed tough.

IIRC, his folded speech in his pocket stopped the bullet

Interesting numbers in DKos poll, before/after…

Pre-debate, Edwards led at 47% at one point.

Post-debate, Edwards still leads at 27%, Obama second at 22%, Clinton third at 17%.

Kos-wise, it looks like Clinton and Obama were about a tie at changing minds.

RevDeb @ 145

Everythingseemssoneat @ 141

QUICKVOTE:

Deeper thinker?

A) Chris Matthews

B) Elizabeth Hasselbeck

I vote C.

Is ‘C’ SpongeBob SquarePants?

MarkH @ 145

RonD @ 120

Uh, IIRC, T.Roosevelt actually took a bullet in the chest, went on to give a speech, and then went to the hospital. IMO, that is a tough guy. An imperialist, but a genuine tough guy.

Wow! I’d never heard that before. That is indeed tough.

George W. Bush took incoming doody from a sparrow and simply smeared it around on his jacket with his chimp-like fingers and opposable thumb.

Almost like being in combat.

-GSD

MarkH @ 144, that sounds like something Biden would do. Keep on talking.

RevDeb- I don’t know, Elizabeth is pretty deep.

What about the comments on whether it was GWB’s war or the Democrats’ war? Thought Hillary lost some ground on that one and I wish I’d been paying better attention at that point. Can anyone fill this in for me/us, please?

Also, was really hoping that the candidates would pick up on NOT calling it war but rather an occupation. Guess these guys haven’t been reading FDL.

CD @ 150

Interesting numbers in DKos poll, before/after…

Pre-debate, Edwards led at 47% at one point.

Post-debate, Edwards still leads at 27%, Obama second at 22%, Clinton third at 17%.

Kos-wise, it looks like Clinton and Obama were about a tie at changing minds.

Or their supporters piled in once the debate began.

teeboy @ 150

RevDeb @ 145

I vote C.

Is ‘C’ SpongeBob SquarePants?

Patrick’s a deeper thinker than those two.

Alterman

MarkH @ 110

leslie @ 95

I thought she looked good, too. And it isn’t important to me, but there are people who do think it important. And they also vorw.

Well, as long as they don’t biwu it’s cool.

I think she looked stunning tonight, but not only because of the hair/make-up aspect. She looked rested, confident, and frankly, presidential. She sounded that way too.

I don’t think a Kos poll would get Hillary a high ranking. Doubt one at FDL would.

Altercationman?

-GSD

P.S. Looks like Castro might outlast Chimpy after all.

TeddySanFran @ 155

Alterman

I hope Scarecrow can get the inside skinny on this since he’s on the scene.

Ouiski, Hillary said it was Bush’s war, loud and clear.

It must be a really peculiar experience to be standing on that stage and thinking of yourself in presidential terms. That’s gotta be a very strange mental trip.

Of course, senators have some experience giving speeches and preening. It’s just the way modern politics works. Maybe that’s one reason Gravel is having trouble. It’s been quite some time since he was a senator.

Mr.Murder @ 131

Obama kind of ignored the idea of continued moral high ground in prosecution of Bin laden.

Maybe he’s afraid there isn’t enough evidence to convict?

Why is Osama still not on the FBI ten most wanted list?

Maybe it points to a mossad cell I saw celebrating the towers collapse…

Why was a missile stirke on a building with children the issue, I think jawbreaker knew a time this was the case and Osama been forgotten…

So nice of Blitzer to forget who let Osama go and spin it vs. Dems, he knew what kind of answer Dennis K. would give.

I thought Osama had been on the list since ‘93.

Sally- Bush’s war that she voted for repeatidly.

No Sopranos SPOILERS !!

E @ 165, that’s not my take on it.

Everythingseemssoneat @ 163

Sally- Bush’s war that she voted for repeatidly.

and still refuses to concede that the vote was in error.

I wonder if Scarecrow is sufficiently spun yet.

Sally @ 162

Ouiski, Hillary said it was Bush’s war, loud and clear.

Thanks, I feel better now! Am glad I misheard. Now I can say I thought she won. She didn’t fall for Blitzer’s trick questions and she also defended the entire panel at several points, she’s looking very presidential to me.

Donna Brazile speaking about DADT with no sense of personal irony whatsoever.

Sally @ 160

Ouiski, Hillary said it was Bush’s war, loud and clear.

Did she say she’d take possession of it if she’s elected, or did she say she’d withdraw ALL the troops?

I have little faith in Clintonian word parsing. Recently I heard a journalist quote Bill and then ask Hillary if she agreed. She said she wasn’t sure what Bill meant and the journalist should ask Bill. Well, if Hillary can’t tell what he meant from his words, then how can I tell what she means when she says “withdraw”?

I hate having to parse any politicians words. It is a perversion of our Democratic system to have absolutely no faith in what our politicians mean when they say something.

Sally @ 160

Ouiski, Hillary said it was Bush’s war, loud and clear.

Yes she did and at the same time she did a wonderful job of triangulating to the center. Why should any Democratic candidate have to parse their answers around Iraq? It was lies that led us into war along with a deterministically blind Congress. To this day, Russ Feingold, a man in office when it started (like Edwards) and a man still in office to this day (like Obama) has had perfect pitch when it comes to this issue. I truly respect Edwards admissions of failure and it would behoove Hillary to take a similar approach (of course, if the gods of triangulation say that’s a good approach…)

Everythingseemssoneat @ 143

QUICKVOTE:

Deeper thinker?

A) Chris Matthews

B) Elizabeth Hasselbeck

I’m torn. This is like asking, Bigger Asshole: Brit Hume, or Bill Kristol?

TeddySanFran @ 172

Donna Brazile speaking about DADT with no sense of personal irony whatsoever.

She had DLC in her veins !

I hate Hillary Clinton and I will vote for my cat before i vote for that evil putz.

She is evil personified.

Jane Hamsher @ 167

I wonder if Scarecrow is sufficiently spun yet.

Do you think he knows about Alterman being arrested? Do you think he can find out anything on the scene? Would it make any sense to call him?

TeddySanFran @ 123

ty

?

Sparkles #179
…Snorts coffee on keyboard..
7070!!

My husband! My dear husband!

She makes me sick.

Sparkles the Iguana @ 166

No Sopranos SPOILERS !!

All in favor of Soprano spoilers, raise your hand!

Jane Hamsher @ 170

I wonder if Scarecrow is sufficiently spun yet.

Hope it hasn’t been chaffing him.

RevDeb @ 176

Jane Hamsher @ 167

I wonder if Scarecrow is sufficiently spun yet.

Do you think he knows about Alterman being arrested? Do you think he can find out anything on the scene? Would it make any sense to call him?

That man has a nose for news. I bet he’s all over it like a cheap suit in the rain.

Scarecrow got roughed up in the Alterman flap. They took his legs and threw them over there and they took his chest and threw it over there.

-GSD

Well, there was one loser — Wolf Blitzer. He was pedantic, rude, dismissive, and had a hardon for warterror blood-and-guts. I was surprised Elizabeth Edwards said he did a great job when asked by Larry King — but not surprised CNN put the story on their “ticker”

Sparkles the Iguana @ 129

Arianna has been showing a lot of cleavage lately, is she going through a midlife crisis?

LOL!

What, you guys didn’t watch Tony choke Uncle Junior to death tonight?

-GSD

P.S. What’s a spoiler?

A haHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I forgot Biden’s funniest line of the night.

“No one asked anyone if they’re gay in those holes. Those foxholes.”

Loo Hoo. @ 183

Sparkles the Iguana @ 129

Arianna has been showing a lot of cleavage lately, is she going through a midlife crisis?

LOL!

Aren’t we all? W’s mid-life crisis, that is.

GSD @ 187

What, you guys didn’t watch Tony choke Uncle Junior to death tonight?

-GSD

P.S. What’s a spoiler?

Someone is going to get punched.

I’m pretty happy. Matt Cooper was my first Facebook friend.

Spazeboy was over here yesterday and I asked him to explain the whole thing to me because he’s, like, twelve years old and supposed to know these things. He just shrugged.

I’m on my own figuring this pig out, aren’t I?

AC360 and Arianna talking about DADT with no sense of personal irony whatsoever. These people are professionals!

kirk murphy @ 63

buckley @ 31

I would ask you not too. If Clinton get the nom we will need every vote we can get in order to keep a Republican out of the white house.

Nope. Electoral college.

In the heavy Dem vote states (I’m in CA), if the Dems anoint another DLC candidate, I’ll vote Green (the party, not Nader) and hope others in “safe states” do the same.

edit – still want to see the Dem win – but divert as much support as possible for Green policies.

Free trade cultists destroy Green policies.

No vote for Hillary here.

No, Kirk, tried that, got Bush (95,000 votes for N. in Fla.), also got invasion, occupation, 3400 dead. Rethink.

Hillary finished by quoting Goldwater????!!!!

Maybe she should have quoted Reagan and longed for the good old days of civil politics.

Here’s a few of the things Chris, Elizabeth and even the President have been known ponder on a daily basis.

http://www.his.com/~z/gibbon.html

She’s a AuH20 grl.

TeddySanFran @ 155

CD @ 150

Interesting numbers in DKos poll, before/after…

Pre-debate, Edwards led at 47% at one point.

Post-debate, Edwards still leads at 27%, Obama second at 22%, Clinton third at 17%.

Kos-wise, it looks like Clinton and Obama were about a tie at changing minds.

Or their supporters piled in once the debate began.

I’ll withhold judgement until the swim suit competition…
These “debates” are such a waste of air.

Jeffrey Toobin sez Obama has never had to come from behind. AC360 does not blink.

teeboy @ 173

Sally @ 160

Ouiski, Hillary said it was Bush’s war, loud and clear.

Yes she did and at the same time she did a wonderful job of triangulating to the center. Why should any Democratic candidate have to parse their answers around Iraq? It was lies that led us into war along with a deterministically blind Congress. To this day, Russ Feingold, a man in office when it started (like Edwards) and a man still in office to this day (like Obama) has had perfect pitch when it comes to this issue. I truly respect Edwards admissions of failure and it would behoove Hillary to take a similar approach (of course, if the gods of triangulation say that’s a good approach…)

not to mention what the Repubs will do with her on this issue in a general election campaign. The Dems need an Iraq-clean candidate, i.e., one who did not vote yes on the war.

GSD @ 151

MarkH @ 145

Wow! I’d never heard that before. That is indeed tough.

George W. Bush took incoming doody from a sparrow and simply smeared it around on his jacket with his chimp-like fingers and opposable thumb.

Almost like being in combat.

-GSD

GSD too funny!

Arianna knocking down this “left-right” “anti-war wing” business right now. Talking about the more than 70% of Americans who want this war ended.

TeddySanFran @ 198

Jeffrey Toobin sez Obama has never had to come from behind. AC360 does not blink.

He’s a professional (didn’t you watch “The Mole?”). He’s laughing inside.

Jane, I thought it was Kobe’s facebook page. Can’t he help you figure it out?

Former head of the Iraq mission General Sanchez says the US can “forget about winning in Iraq”.

Another Clinton General?

-GSD

TeddySanFran @ 196

She’s a AuH20 grl.

It’s always a victory for the left when you can quote Goldwater making a pro-gay statement.

I think this guy Murphy’s credit card got declined half way through his Hairclub for Men treatments.

Murphy-repug-thug talking about how this is all about raising money in future quarters.

Is it just me who thinks this might qualify as the most honest response of the entire evening?

How depressing.

Maybe JC Watts could be Donna Brazile’s merkin.

The Repub candidate will stand side by side with Hillary and say they’re on the same team together with the same policy!

The Repub candidate, in any case, is going to wash his hands of Bush while saying (without irony I suppose) they supported Bush completely.

Hillary would have to fight it out on other policy positions, just as Kerry did. Really, what is the difference between Hillary and Kerry’s positions?

TeddySanFran @ 198

Jeffrey Toobin sez Obama has never had to come from behind. AC360 does not blink.

Is this a callback to the “reacharound” question?

-GSD

Loo Hoo. @ 178

TeddySanFran @ 123

ty

?

Teddy was saying Thank You to my explanation for why John King would be interviewing someone undecided between Dems and Repubs…

ceo @ 95

Alterman got arrested?

What??

sorry if i am late to the discussion, but as i’m reading through i may have more to comment upon than this from the first thread by scarecrow:

“She’s left herself open again; if she thought the inspectors needed to finish their job, you shouldn’t authorize war — doesn’t anyone know how to vote note or write a condition? “

doesn’t the war powers act from 2002 include conditions? i mean, if one reads the “bullets” included in the legislation, completing the inspectors work was/is one of the items listed. the use of military power was the
last and final bullet included. at least that is my memory, but i haven’t reviewed it in the last few months. (sorry if this point was already addressed)

generally speaking, i liked this debate better than the CNBC debate previously held. i’m not a wolf fan, but this format seemed to allow for more response beyond the sound bites we get in the TV ad campaigns (althought there was more of that than i wanted to hear).

i didn’t get what scheme wolf was using to fairly distribute the questions or include each candidate. the “top tier” (i hate that) candidates appeared to get more face time, which i wasn’t real pleased to see. (as scarecrow mentioned, it was nearly 20 minutes before Sen Dodd was asked anything.)

the more i see of richardson, the less inclined i am to consider him a candidate for my vote. i do believe he could be very useful in a democratic cabinet position, if he ever tired of being Govenor of New Mexico.

Gravel still makes me smile outloud. (-;like the idea of having a woman in the oval office for a change. i believe i have seen many progressives automatically write off Hillary for a handful of reasons … i’m not sure at the end of the day that makes the most sense to me.

TeddySanFran @ 201

Jane, I thought it was Kobe’s facebook page. Can’t he help you figure it out?

He said I could have my own, too.

RonD @ 122

Uh, IIRC, T.Roosevelt actually took a bullet in the chest, went on to give a speech, and then went to the hospital. IMO, that is a tough guy. An imperialist, but a genuine tough guy.

TR always fascinated me… Combining unabashed imperialism with trust-busting, environmentalism and that weird Roosevelt royal populism. Good recipe for a dictator though, at the right time and place.

TeddySanFran @ 184

Well, there was one loser — Wolf Blitzer. He was pedantic, rude, dismissive, and had a hardon for warterror blood-and-guts. I was surprised Elizabeth Edwards said he did a great job when asked by Larry King — but not surprised CNN put the story on their “ticker”

Earlier today, Elizabeth Edwards was a solo guest on Blitzer’s show. He was pandering and she likely doesn’t want him to turn on them.

Sparkles the Iguana @ 190

GSD @ 187

What, you guys didn’t watch Tony choke Uncle Junior to death tonight?

-GSD

P.S. What’s a spoiler?

Someone is going to get punched.

I don’t have HBO.

-GSD

Sparkles the Iguana @ 129

Arianna has been showing a lot of cleavage lately, is she going through a midlife crisis?

My thought exactly. When she first came on the screen, the cleavage startled me. Couldn’t she cover up about half of that? She could put someone’s eye out.

Maybe it was another attempt to show how she’s different from Hillary – Hillary certainly showed no cleavage. She did, however, reveal some very, very white ankle (which stood out becuase she’s on stage with a bunch of men who had the foresight to wear dark socks with their dark pants. It made her ankles scream out for the need to see sunshine.)

I missed the first part of the debate. I tuned in in time to see Hillary speaking about the war, and I thought she was the victim of a very bad orange makeup job. Then, I realized the lighting was so bad, everyone looks very orange. It made me think of the really bad self-tanning lotions back in the early 1970s that turned you bright orange. Not flattering.

teeboy @ 194

Hillary finished by quoting Goldwater????!!!!

Maybe she should have quoted Reagan and longed for the good old days of civil politics.

She was using Goldwater quote to slapdown the wing-nuts as he is one of their heroes. The quote “You don’t have to be straight to shoot straight.” was in favor of gays serving honorably in the military and doing away with the ludicrous DADT.

sorry, the end of my 212 looks different than how i thought i wrote it … i’m still trying to get used to the editor here. thanks for your indulgence. {-%

~itunkala @ 219

sorry, the end of my 212 looks different than how i thought i wrote it … i’m still trying to get used to the editor here. thanks for your indulgence. {-%

and welcome!

I thought Edwards won this one. Barack looked pretty good too.

Did anyone else notice Hilliary’s weird facial expressions when she was challenged ?

solai @ 211

ceo @ 95

Alterman got arrested?

What??

They were talking about this on dKos, but it appears the link to the story has been scrubbed from the CNN website. (the story apparently said he was arrested in the media spin room after the debate, as he refused to leave after being approached by security. I’m getting this second hand, btw).

I’m really wondering just what happened.

TeddySanFran @ 192

AC360 and Arianna talking about DADT with no sense of personal irony whatsoever. These people are professionals!

I give up. What’s DADT?

MANCHESTER, New Hampshire (CNN) — Sen. Hillary Clinton’s campaign strategist Mark Penn praised her debate performance to CNN’s Chief National Correspondent John King and said that besides Clinton, Delaware’s Senator Joe Biden “had a strong night.”

“I think the net is she went in a frontrunner and came out a frontrunner,” Penn said.

Former President Bill Clinton was mentioned throughout the debate as someone to fill a role in another administration, with Former Alaska Senator Mike Gravel and New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson naming possible positions for him if they were elected president. Penn said “dial groups” showed a strong response and said that “may have been the most interesting question of the debate.”

I would like to create a new media creature consisting of Brazile’s hair, Carville’s hideous mug and ears, Wolfie’s beard, JC Watts short-sightedness and Larry King’s posture.

It shall live in the darkest regions of Mordor.

Loo Hoo. @ 223

TeddySanFran @ 192

AC360 and Arianna talking about DADT with no sense of personal irony whatsoever. These people are professionals!

I give up. What’s DADT?

don’t ask don’t tell. AC360 and Michael Huffington (Arianna’s ex) aren’t exactly known for being ladies’ men.

landofthefree @ 222

solai @ 211

What??

They were talking about this on dKos, but it appears the link to the story has been scrubbed from the CNN website. (the story apparently said he was arrested in the media spin room after the debate, as he refused to leave after being approached by security. I’m getting this second hand, btw).

I’m really wondering just what happened.

someone upthread had a link to Atrios that the arrest was becuz he wouldn’t leave a private room set up for WMUR staff, not the spin room…

Loo Hoo. @ 223

TeddySanFran @ 192

AC360 and Arianna talking about DADT with no sense of personal irony whatsoever. These people are professionals!

I give up. What’s DADT?

Don’t Ask don’t Tell

teeboy @ 225

I would like to create a new media creature consisting of Brazile’s hair, Carville’s hideous mug and ears, Wolfie’s beard, JC Watts short-sightedness and Larry King’s posture.

It shall live in the darkest regions of Mordor.

How awful! At least pick another beard.

Hillary. A quick schvitz of this on your ankles will do wonders.

-The Fashion Fascists

Blogger coverage of the debates next up on CNN (Larry King)

Bob in HI

teeboy @ 225

I would like to create a new media creature consisting of Brazile’s hair, Carville’s hideous mug and ears, Wolfie’s beard, JC Watts short-sightedness and Larry King’s posture.

It shall live in the darkest regions of Mordor.

And Donna Brazile’s integrity

~itunkala @ 218

sorry, the end of my 212 looks different than how i thought i wrote it … i’m still trying to get used to the editor here. thanks for your indulgence. {-%

“Preview” is your friend before the fact, and “Edit this Comment” is your friend after the fact.

Sparkles the Iguana @ 190

GSD @ 187

What, you guys didn’t watch Tony choke Uncle Junior to death tonight?

-GSD

P.S. What’s a spoiler?

Someone is going to get punched.

Gang punched!

Kidding, I saw the retraction ; )

Barry Goldwater may have been an egregious hawk, but at least you always knew where he stood on an issue. I was pretty disappointed with ALL the dems tonight, but at least Edwards was man enough to admit “I was wrong,” which is about as close to “I fucked up” as we’re even going to hear.

Hillary hasa never said “I was wrong” and until she does, she does not deserve the slightest consideration for anything except unemployment.

Just once, I’d like to see someone in the public eye, be they pol, entertainer, MSM talking head or blogger, just stand up and say “I fucked up, and I’m sorry.”

Just once. I think I could die happy if I saw that.

TeddySanFran @ 221

MANCHESTER, New Hampshire (CNN) — Sen. Hillary Clinton’s campaign strategist Mark Penn praised her debate performance to CNN’s Chief National Correspondent John King and said that besides Clinton, Delaware’s Senator Joe Biden “had a strong night.”

“I think the net is she went in a frontrunner and came out a frontrunner,” Penn said.

Former President Bill Clinton was mentioned throughout the debate as someone to fill a role in another administration, with Former Alaska Senator Mike Gravel and New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson naming possible positions for him if they were elected president. Penn said “dial groups” showed a strong response and said that “may have been the most interesting question of the debate.”

So it’s news that Hill’s campaign strategist sez that she was the best? Boy, that liberal media.

RevDeb @ 168

Everythingseemssoneat @ 163

Sally- Bush’s war that she voted for repeatidly.

and still refuses to concede that the vote was in error.

That actually gives her some credibility with some Georgia conservatives I correspond with. She voted, she didn’t apologize. We want her to, they admire her for not doing so. I don’t know what to make of it, but that’s what they told me.
Will they vote for her?
God knows.

Chris Dodd’s Talk Clock

teeboy @ 222

I would like to create a new media creature consisting of Brazile’s hair, Carville’s hideous mug and ears, Wolfie’s beard, JC Watts short-sightedness and Larry King’s posture.

It shall live in the darkest regions of Mordor.

calling darkblack . . . .

Alterman story

HRC will not get my primary vote, which for now leans towards Edwards.

But she would be competent and sensible, and I’ll have no problem (OK, just a little) voting for her in the general. Particulary given my invetible choices.

She’s good at what she does, just like her husband was, but I find her just slightly unauthentic.

They should all come together, since they’re a fine bunch. HRC/Obama at the top of the ticket, Richardson for Sec. of State; Biden for Sec. of Defense; Bill Clinton for World Ambassodor. I have a hard time thinking even HRC would lose that election, though she is so much the most vulnerable Dem in the race it makes me cringe.

Oh, and Jane, your tribute to S. Gilliard was heartbreaking and lovely. God bless you and keep up the good work.

My feelings for you are not unlike Forrest G.’s feelings toward Jenny. I hope you are thriving and healthy.

Love,

John O

teeboy @ 223

I would like to create a new media creature consisting of Brazile’s hair, Carville’s hideous mug and ears, Wolfie’s beard, JC Watts short-sightedness and Larry King’s posture.

It shall live in the darkest regions of Mordor.

Paging Darkblack.

-GSD

P.S. CNN has the Alterman story front-paged.

boing – swan dive – no splash

g’evening everyone

suzanne!

Former President Bill Clinton was mentioned throughout the debate as someone to fill a role in another administration,

Maybe he could raise money for Katrina victims. Wow, is the destruction of New Orleans gonna hit the radar in future debates? I guess this is an advantage the Republicans have, so many disasters, so little time to cover them.

I think Hillary’s ankles were sheathed in nude-colored hosiery. I don’t think she could’ve worn black hose and looked quite normal.

Oh look, there’s a CNN blog surfer reporting.

Teddy!

Hillary.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

sorry, i’m just not into the bush clinton, bush clinton scenario.

it doesn’t sound very American to me. at all.

Anderson rendered momentarily speechless by the “Hillary looks hot tonight” comment. Quickly segues to Kucinich.

fdl up on cnn!

with this quote from the comments about hillary: she’s hot tonight!

Zee @ 21

I think I’m still not sure who I support. I was split Edwards/Richardson. Now Richardson’s off my list. But I’m not 100% Edwards. I think I need to hear more about Dodd and Biden. I like some of what I’ve heard, but I haven’t heard enough.

I’m afraid part of why I like Edwards is that I like Elizabeth.

Elizabeth Edwards would make a better candidate than half of the persons in that debate. And yes, she is in large part why I’m liking her husband more and more lately.

I take it the CNN blogserf won’t be talking about the blogs ridicule of Wolfie the Beard’s warmongering hypotheticals any time soon?

-GSD

charley @ 248

Hillary.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

sorry, i’m just not into the bush clinton, bush clinton scenario.

it doesn’t sound very American to me. at all.

So you would not have been able to cast a vote for Robert Kennedy?

Just say no to dynastic succession in a democracy. Pretty soon we’ll be hearing talk of Jeb’s drug addled daughter as a running mate.

-GSD

Bob Schacht @ 229

Blogger coverage of the debates next up on CNN (Larry King)

Bob in HI

They quoted mainly DailyKos and MyDD
Their analyst noted that Hillary came in 3rd place and tried to put a nice face on it saying that 3rd place for her was a strong finish, taking a few isolated quotes from the comments about her being “hot” and one other favorable of more substance. Cheez whiz, taking two quotes like that you could probably make Mike Gravel look like a winner. Best point was someone (Dodd’s website?) calculated the amount of time each candidate (and Wolfie) got. Anyone got the linky on that? Ah! Ouisky @ 236 caught it.

Bob in HI

John O @ 239

HRC will not get my primary vote, which for now leans towards Edwards.

But she would be competent and sensible, and I’ll have no problem (OK, just a little) voting for her in the general. Particulary given my invetible choices.

Not me. I have a cat named Brat I’ll vote for before I’d vote for HRC.

I truly hate that person. As much as I hate GWB, and that’s a lot. Of course, there’s almost no difference between them in terms of their policies.

TeddySanFran @ 75

Huff sez it was Hillary’s nite.

no shit??!

wow, you know Hillary must have done extremely well for Arianna to throw her a bone. i’ve never seen such negative Hillary bias as i’ve seen over on HuffPo since she announced.

TeddySanFran @ 226

Loo Hoo. @ 223

I give up. What’s DADT?

don’t ask don’t tell. AC360 and Michael Huffington (Arianna’s ex) aren’t exactly known for being ladies’ men.

Gotcha. Thanks.

~itunkala @ 211

…
i believe i have seen many progressives automatically write off Hillary for a handful of reasons … i’m not sure at the end of the day that makes the most sense to me.

In 2004 we said ABB (anybody but Bush) and we ended up with Kerry, who like Hillary, said the war was okay so long as they’re in charge of winning/ending it. I would’ve been nicer to have gotten Dean, Edwards or Clark to end the war more quickly. Now, in 2007 we have the same chance in the primary to pick just the right candidate. Are we gonna waste this opportunity just to say, “Oh well, just to have somebody different in the WH is all we want.” I don’t think that’s wise. We should seriously debate to get the absolute best candidate because so much is at stake.

And, the fact that some progressives are dismissing Hillary for “a handful of reasons” should make a person wonder if any of those are valid reasons and if maybe the progressives are right. Maybe they’re not “a handful of reasons” to dismiss so casually.

Personally, I don’t think the DLC or Liberal or progressive labels is especially useful when we’re discussing one very specific topic, unless you also broaden the discussion to include a more abstract view of our foreign policy. Saying the war is going badly and we should leave is a heck of a lot different than saying our Middle Eastern policy and energy policy is broken and needs to be fixed. Then you might begin to see some approaches which bear more DLC or Liberal or Progressive trademarks. How would a DLCer like Hillary handle the Middle East differently than a Liberal like Dodd, and how would a newcomer like Obama handle it differently than Edwards? Tell me the big picture you see (”Just the facts ma’am.”) and then your vision of how the overall policy should work. If Hillary is in league with Big Money, then it would become more apparent. If Obama is ‘one righeous dude’ or shallow then it would become apparent. If the Liberals appear too pie in the sky, then you’d see it. But, to say they’re all against the war is really skirting the issue in a big way.

121064 @ 234

Hillary hasa never said “I was wrong” and until she does, she does not deserve the slightest consideration for anything except unemployment.

Hillary can’t say she was wrong because she knew what she was doing all along.

She could have done her due diligence and read the classified NIE. But she didn’t, because she had made her mind up, despite warnings of those that read the whole report.

At least Edwards is being honest when he says he made a mistake. For Hillary to say that would be a lie.

Entirely subjective impressions:

Hillary should stop with the slightly strident tone.

She needs to hire a voice coach. I’m serious.

She talks about the politics way too much.

Obama is spot on about half of the time. To the point, direct, no equivocation. He could and should eliminate the windbag answers he sometimes gives. He shows promise.

Edwards – I’m not sure what to say. He’s solid, but he needs to be more provocative. He’s solid, but need to show a little more uumph.

Dodd – needs to be given more time. A solid presence and a good speaker.

Biden – needs to tone down the anger.

Richardson – over-rehearsed.

Gravel, Kucinich – I hope they are allowed to continue on the debates. They have some refreshing opinions that deserve to be heard.

the CNN review of the blogs was rude. they talked about the blogs as if the only thing of import to us is humor. they were “surprised” that the serious responses of the candidates made a difference to the blogoshpere.
(that was jackie, the blog reviewer)

So you would not have been able to cast a vote for Robert Kennedy?

well, that’s a little before my time. tho i do remember…

and Hillary is no RFK.

Phoenix Woman @ 249

Zee @ 21

I think I’m still not sure who I support. I was split Edwards/Richardson. Now Richardson’s off my list. But I’m not 100% Edwards. I think I need to hear more about Dodd and Biden. I like some of what I’ve heard, but I haven’t heard enough.

I’m afraid part of why I like Edwards is that I like Elizabeth.

Elizabeth Edwards would make a better candidate than half of the persons in that debate. And yes, she is in large part why I’m liking her husband more and more lately.

Associated Press | June 3, 2007 05:30 PM

Elizabeth Edwards, the wife of Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards, says she is writing a letter to her children so they will have her guidance after she is no longer with them.

Phoenix Woman @ 250

Zee @ 21

I think I’m still not sure who I support. I was split Edwards/Richardson. Now Richardson’s off my list. But I’m not 100% Edwards. I think I need to hear more about Dodd and Biden. I like some of what I’ve heard, but I haven’t heard enough.

I’m afraid part of why I like Edwards is that I like Elizabeth.

Elizabeth Edwards would make a better candidate than half of the persons in that debate. And yes, she is in large part why I’m liking her husband more and more lately.

You are right. According to Schrum’s memoir, Elizabeth was against the Iraq War Authorization because she didn’t trust anything said by the Bush Administration. But John got swayed by Democratic political arm twisting. I wish she had been the Senator from NC in 2002, and the Woman running in 2008.

NOTHING will energize the Republican Base more that Hillary being nominated. For the good of the Party, for the good of the Country, for the good of the World, she should get out now! Stop this vanity campaign project and show some selfless patriotism for once in her life.

The candidate that has the most wince potential for me is Richardson. He seems to put his foot in his mouth a lot. His Press the Meat appearance really was horrendous.

GSD @ 228

Hillary. A quick schvitz of this on your ankles will do wonders.

-The Fashion Fascists

snort!
Sparkles @ 247: that made me snort my beer out my nose.

TeddySanFran @ 248

fdl up on cnn!

with this quote from the comments about hillary: she’s hot tonight!

I missed the fdl reference– what did they say?

I thought that the “she’s hot tonight” quote was from MyDD.

Bob

Hi Suzanne!

Eyagh!

Bush may hire Howdy Douchebag-Ed Gillespie to fill Bartletts’ cloven hooves.

More lies and spin coming your way.

-GSD

Sparkles the Iguana @ 265

The candidate that has the most wince potential for me is Richardson. He seems to put his foot in his mouth a lot. His Press the Meat appearance really was horrendous.

but, he’s from New Mexico! Didn’t you hear, he’s the governor of New Mexico!

leslie @ 258

the CNN review of the blogs was rude. they talked about the blogs as if the only thing of import to us is humor. they were “surprised” that the serious responses of the candidates made a difference to the blogoshpere.
(that was jackie, the blog reviewer)

Is that a surprise?

We could have written that piece for them before the debate knowing that’s what they’d be saying.

Yawn.

Shoes4Industry @ 264

NOTHING will energize the Republican Base more that Hillary being nominated. For the good of the Party, for the good of the Country, for the good of the World, she should get out now! Stop this vanity campaign project and show some selfless patriotism for once in her life.

I agree. I think they will rally like the Orcs if she’s the nominee.

-GSD

~itunkala @ 256

TeddySanFran @ 75

Huff sez it was Hillary’s nite.

no shit??!

wow, you know Hillary must have done extremely well for Arianna to throw her a bone. i’ve never seen such negative Hillary bias as i’ve seen over on HuffPo since she announced.

I would give them credit for that. HuffPo is not perfect, but they do a good job. Hillary had a lot of good will from the peace and prosperity til 2001. But she turned toward Rupert Murdoch, A*P*C, K Street. And she turned away from the dirty mocking hippies.

Suzanne @ 241

boing – swan dive – no splash

g’evening everyone

Beautiful dive!

TeddySanFran @ 248

fdl up on cnn!

with this quote from the comments about hillary: she’s hot tonight!

What? I think I said that.

Richardson said he would shut down Abu Ghraib – is Abu Ghraib still open for business? I thought I heard it was closed, but maybe that was all a dream.

OK, Glenn Beck time on CNN. I’m outa there.

BTW, they’re quoting Hillary saying she thinks we’re more secure now than before 9/11. Apparently, she didn’t get the memo. National Security Estimate(?) says we’re LESS safe. Someone should have called her on that baloney. It just serves the Republican lie that Bush made us safer.

Bob in HI

What was the snarkiest stupidest silliest moment of the evening?

Shoes4Industry @ 264

NOTHING will energize the Republican Base more that Hillary being nominated. For the good of the Party, for the good of the Country, for the good of the World, she should get out now! Stop this vanity campaign project and show some selfless patriotism for once in her life.

And de-energize the Democrats.

I will vote for her if nominated, but I won’t campaign for her.

Shoes4Industry @ 264

NOTHING will energize the Republican Base more that Hillary being nominated. For the good of the Party, for the good of the Country, for the good of the World, she should get out now! Stop this vanity campaign project and show some selfless patriotism for once in her life.

i think this hits the nail on the head. she’d have been a good president. as well she may still be. but it won’t be good for the country.

leslie @ 260

the CNN review of the blogs was rude. they talked about the blogs as if the only thing of import to us is humor.

Well, CNN is such a serious news-unit. Anyone know how much time CNN has spent the last week talking about Lindsay Lohan?

Sparkles the Iguana @ 276

Richardson said he would shut down Abu Ghraib – is Abu Ghraib still open for business? I thought I heard it was closed, but maybe that was all a dream.

Snap out of it kid. The US is pouring Iraqis into jail by the hundreds and thousands.

-GSD

TRex singing the Wall Street Blues upstairs

teeboy @ 281

Well, CNN is such a serious news-unit. Anyone know how much time CNN has spent the last week talking about Lindsay Lohan?

A heckuva lot more than we have here at FDL, that’s for sure.

GSD @ 283

Sparkles the Iguana @ 276

Richardson said he would shut down Abu Ghraib – is Abu Ghraib still open for business? I thought I heard it was closed, but maybe that was all a dream.

Snap out of it kid. The US is pouring Iraqis into jail by the hundreds and thousands.

-GSD

Ok, I’m not completely crazy:

“On March 9, 2006, the U.S. military decided to close Abu Ghraib prison and transfer prisoners to other jails in Iraq.[6]The prison was reported emptied of prisoners in August 2006.[7] On September 2, 2006, Abu Ghraib was formally handed over to Iraq’s government. Ali al-Dabbagh, a spokesman for Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, stated “The Abu Ghraib detention facility was handed over to the Iraqi government.” The formal transfer was conducted between Major General Jack Gardner, Commander of Task Force 134, and representatives of the Iraqi Ministry of Justice and the Iraqi army.[8]”

Just listening to the debate. (2 graduation parties) Obama sure messed up the VA question. What the hell was he saying?

Richardson just cut through the crap about the VA!

Why is Wolf asking questions, I thought this was audience participation time.

And, the fact that some progressives are dismissing Hillary for “a handful of reasons” should make a person wonder if any of those are valid reasons and if maybe the progressives are right. Maybe they’re not “a handful of reasons” to dismiss so casually.

i don’t think i said i was, nor am i, dismissing any ones position casually. I’ve heard all, made most, and agree with many, of the arguments regarding Senator Clinton myself.

i still consider Hillary a viable candidate. it appears that you disagree. as i may have mentioned in my original post, she is not my first choice. I’m also not inclined to view her as evil reincarnate, as others are, for whatever their reasons.

I for one, did not like all the talk about Bill in this debate. I really do want to move on. I just can’t tolerate the thought of more Monica, Whitewater and Travelgate. Sure it was a great right wing conspiracy. And the right wing will resurrect it if she is nominated. I just don’t want to hear it anymore. Let’s move on.

So far greatest comment by Hillary “they ocasionally send Dick Cheney around the world that is hardly diplomatic”

John Edwards had a great answer on Iran…

In regard to Iran Biden said we need to take the “Regime change agenda off the table” YES!

Wolf Blitzer pushed the what would you do about the Iran problem.

re: my 287

sorry, it isn’t clear that the first paragraph is quoted from MarkH at 257, with my response following.

Shoes4Industry @ 264

NOTHING will energize the Republican Base more that Hillary being nominated. For the good of the Party, for the good of the Country, for the good of the World, she should get out now! Stop this vanity campaign project and show some selfless patriotism for once in her life.

Andrew Sullivan of the Daily Dish blog put it best:

The only way the GOP can win in 2008 is if Hillary heads the ticket.

Kucinich “OBL should be tried in the INternatinal Criminal Court” and “anyone else that commits crimes against humanity” Yes Congressman Kucinich that would include quite a few people in the Bush administration.

Hillary sure is Presidential. So smart so smooth. Just wish she would admit her mistake in October of 2002.

Wolf Blitzer keeps trying to get them to raise their hands. Hillary keeps objecting to “hypotheticals”

Richardson on Darfur “more Un Peacekeepers in Darfur”
“lean on China” “Possibly tell China that we will not come to the Olympics” “Sanctions” “America should care about Africa and we don’t”

Edwards “America no longer has the moral authority to lead any more” Ouch

Edwards/Obama …now that’s a ticket.

o.k. Wolf enough of the “raise your hand” thing it is not work working.

teeboy @ 283

leslie @ 260

the CNN review of the blogs was rude. they talked about the blogs as if the only thing of import to us is humor.

Well, CNN is such a serious news-unit. Anyone know how much time CNN has spent the last week talking about Lindsay Lohan?

CNN is pretty much (but not completely yet) dead to me. MSNBC for me, except when Tucker is on

Richardson “If I were President I would shut down Guantanmo, shut down Abu Gharib’

Sparkles the Iguana @ 285

GSD @ 283

Snap out of it kid. The US is pouring Iraqis into jail by the hundreds and thousands.

-GSD

Ok, I’m not completely crazy:

“On March 9, 2006, the U.S. military decided to close Abu Ghraib prison and transfer prisoners to other jails in Iraq.[6]The prison was reported emptied of prisoners in August 2006.[7] On September 2, 2006, Abu Ghraib was formally handed over to Iraq’s government. Ali al-Dabbagh, a spokesman for Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, stated “The Abu Ghraib detention facility was handed over to the Iraqi government.” The formal transfer was conducted between Major General Jack Gardner, Commander of Task Force 134, and representatives of the Iraqi Ministry of Justice and the Iraqi army.[8]”

Well, we’re in EPU-ville now, but this shows you the reality: Abu Ghraib has NOT been shut down, just transferred to the Iraqi government. You may remember that it was the Iraqi government that built Abu Ghraib to begin with, and used it to torture people before our guys took it over and decided to use it the same way because Rummy was all hot and bothered about getting “better” intelligence on what was happening in Iraq because all of his policies were failing.

Bob in HI

Monk @ 288

I for one, did not like all the talk about Bill in this debate. I really do want to move on. I just can’t tolerate the thought of more Monica, Whitewater and Travelgate. Sure it was a great right wing conspiracy. And the right wing will resurrect it if she is nominated. I just don’t want to hear it anymore. Let’s move on.

ANOTHER reason Hillary should step aside now.
“Enough is enough.”

(NOTHING will energize the Republican Base more that Hillary being nominated. For the good of the Party, for the good of the Country, for the good of the World, she should get out now! Stop this vanity campaign project and show some selfless patriotism for once in her life.)

Monk @ 295

Edwards/Obama …now that’s a ticket.

My sentiments exactly, and I don’t particularly care in which order either.

I like Edwards but I’ll support whoever the Dem winner is against those Yahoo’s (The Republican winner).

And Arianna, quit trashing Hillary. That kind of ‘help’, we don’t need, savvy?

I would give them credit for that. Huff Po is not perfect, but they do a good job. Hillary had a lot of good will from the peace and prosperity til 2001. But she turned toward Rupert Murdoch, A*P*C, K Street. And she turned away from the dirty mocking hippies.

i agree. i participate over at HuffPo infrequently. less so lately because of what i perceived to be over the top bashing of Democratic Candidate Senator Clinton. i also agree that Hillary deserves much criticism, i just think that HuffPo was/is getting rabid about it (compared to their love-fest with Obama).

it reminds me of how Arianna went after Gore when she was a Bradley supporter in ‘00.

i lived through the Michael Huffington campaign in CA in the mid-90’s, so i’ve witnessed the Arianna spectrum. i have a lot of respect for her, but that doesn’t mean there are areas of disagreement sometimes. i think she goes over the top on her constant critique of Hillary, that’s all.

GSD @ 58

J.C. Watts pappy told him what for. He said “A black man voting for a Republican is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders.”

-GSD

“There are only TWO types of Republicans…Millionaires and Fools”

Well, that ‘tube sounds fine. She did well at her posturing for the A I P A C nod. Clearly, she’s started her general election campaign.

She did sound good, childish with the actions though. She did lead the others, which is only indicative of the fact we gotta find someone better than this crop!

Here’s what I heard:
blah blah blah blah “I didn’t READ the NIE”
blah blah blah “9/11″ blah “9/11″ blah blah “We ARE safer now” blah blah.

Huge error crediting bushco with anything!

How in the hell can you make a decision when you haven’t read the NIE???? Plus, her not reading it, probably ever, demonstrates how she can conclude “We ARE safer now”.

Now that’s just one more reason to add to my hard and fast list of candidate requirements: 1)NO family members, 2)NO one who voted for the war, 3)NO one who doesn’t do their homework and says so, 4) NO one who thinks we’re safer now and says so, 5) NO one who is going to run on the “9/11 terrr terrr fear fear” platform.

Thanks for asking, Jane! :)

Nice puffy little clip, Jane.

Can you find the one where she was pimping for more troops in Iraq, a few months before the mid-terms?

And then she saw which way the poll wind was blowing, and found her inner anti-war self.

But still can’t simply admit that her enabling vote was a mistake?

And that means that she can’t say the INVASION was a mistake.

And, as Iraq implodes, THAT little gumdrop is going to grow to the size of a 70 pound watermelon, when she has to eat it. :o)

It seems these debates are a huge waste of everyones time and energy until GORE gets in and Hillary gets out.

Shoes; the process of getting her out, may be underway in Iowa, as we speak. :o)

Oh, and the ONE thing I did hear tonight was that george bush is responsible for the war and he is the one than can end it…. any old time he wants to. Good.

Tanbark @ 308

Shoes; the process of getting her out, may be underway in Iowa, as we speak. :o)

Well she should have the unselfish sense of partisan patriotism and get out now, take the majority leader position the Harry Reid has offered and be happy with the millions she and Bill now enjoy. If she had one ounce of self-awareness, she would do that. That in itself (her utter-blindness to her own liabilities) should disqualify her from higher office.

Edwards has a strong selling point of states’ rights as the answer to increased regulatory function.

Like a state’s really going to make a corporation stop polluting or see it move somewhere else.

Only a federal regulatory body could enforce that to prevent companies from doing a constant bait and switch, and only a federal agency would have the kind of incentive and independent authority to do so.

It knocks him down, nearly to ‘B lister’ pick, in my opinion.

Sid58 @191 : No, Kirk, tried that, got Bush (95,000 votes for N. in Fla.), also got invasion, occupation, 3400 dead. Rethink.

OK, Sid58, how about YOU rethink: Gore actually won in Florida.

http://archive.democrats.com/display.cfm?id=181

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2001/111201a.html

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2…..-f05.shtml

Just Google “Gore won Florida” for oodles more.

Rethink: Jeb Bush, Katherine Harris, 50,000 voters purged, voter intimidation and suppression, stolen ballot boxes, SCOTUS.

Rethink: “American Blackout” —

http://www.americanblackout.com/background.html

Rethink: Considering all of the above, why continue to blame the 95,000 votes Nader got? Does the Kool-Aid of the Lazy Left taste that good? Make everything easy? No hafta see Dem corruption?

Rethink: in a democracy, you get to vote for the candidate you WANT, rather than the candidate a bunch of loud voices TELL you to vote for. 95,000 people in Florida stood up for real democracy by a) holding the Democratic Party to the same standards as the Republican Party, and b) casting a vote according to their consciences.

Yay democracy.

Edwards quoted TNR, strike two.

Shoes4Industry @ 264

NOTHING will energize the Republican Base more that Hillary being nominated. For the good of the Party, for the good of the Country, for the good of the World, she should get out now! Stop this vanity campaign project and show some selfless patriotism for once in her life.

I totally agree. I know there’s no chance of her “voluntarily” withdrawing from this vanity campaign. I am terrified of how motivated the Repubs will be if she’s nominated and how unmotivated Dems will be. I think even Kucinich would be a better candidate in the “motivates Repubs/discourages Dems” department. A fair portion of those Reps and independents furious at Bush and just dying to vote against him may pause if it means having to vote for Hillary.

Tim Griffin’s resignation does not erase his request to appear. Inf fact he can no longer cite Executive Privilege.

There’s caging lists to account for. He did make false statements about his involvement with election sacandals.

Purchase an AETN(Arkansas PBS affiliate) program archive of “Unconventional Wisdom.”

There was a thirty minute interview of Griffin who took over Cummins’ seat, placed on AETN to try and dispel the perception of him within Arkansas. During said program he denies having taken part in any caging, whilst being a sitting prosecutor on the first federal district, for the twenty fifth state of the union. It’s why he’s one the fast track out, but it removes no obligation to appear and denies him the ability to cite privilege.

He still should face discipline having stated assertions contrary to the facts whilst on federal payroll. It’s about more than impeachment, it’s about taking part in the effort to deny Civil Rights. Using the laws intended to respect such, stated liberties in a way as to reverse the intended shelter of rights, and further shape political outcomes from a post that such acts and intent are not allowed.

Subscribe to http://www.aetn.org/podcast/unconventional.rss

It’s been at least a month back of this. The last program that aired was an interview of a former staffer for Rep.Berry who is a senior position man for one of the various campaign entities(DNC I believe).
He notes the GOP candidate for Berry’s seat in the last election “is currently under investigation by the FBI” and it’s my opinion this has to do with continued efforts to purge voter rolls in said district.

The Guard contingent here was one of the most called upon to serve during the last few years, and it could be there was a concerted effort to purge their votes.

Most of the units’ members have/are working in steel post production/production, and they were the first to salvage scrap from dumps outside Baghdad to ‘armor up’ their vehicles, using their experience in steel fabrication and shaping to do so.

Another relative made appearances to help maintain preparedness of Guard units here. This came before news of another deployment and after the group had maxed out most of its capacity to deploy in Katrina relief.

Griffin resigned for a reason, he was already in deep crap. Now it’s deeper, he’s no longer held by Executive Privlege to avoid answers. He cannot use memory as there are public records that indicate otherwise and if he maintains that defense then he cannot plead the 5th.

He wants to fall back on the 5th, but the other items in his plan of defense are gone if he does.

Please make certain you call Rep.Conyers and emphasize the same points, that Griffin is still bound to appear any request and has less capacity to resist, he must feel compelled by law to answer or remember in full.

Apologies if there are typos, my spellecheck window will not work, must reboot. Hope to hear well of all. Griffin must be held to accountability and not forgotten under the debate spin cycles for the coming week.

Everythingseemssoneat @ 141

QUICKVOTE:

Deeper thinker?

A) Chris Matthews

B) Elizabeth Hasselbeck

Answer: Their lovechild, Tucker Carlson.

Hilary voted for the war bc she “trusted” Bush and thinks we are all safer now, what with the Iraq war – illegal wiretaps – torture etc.

… and she’s touted as the winner?

Wow.

In KY an IN, where I hang around, Hilary is the ONLY Democratic candidate who registered Dems say they will not vote for in 2008. The only one. That doesn’t just hurt the party’s outliook for 2008, it hurts the other candidates on the ticket.

Dodd deserved more time – he really should get some second looks and support. He certainly had The Answer for first thing he’d doin in office.

Mary @ 317

Hilary voted for the war bc she “trusted” Bush and thinks we are all safer now, what with the Iraq war – illegal wiretaps – torture etc.

… and she’s touted as the winner?

Wow.

In KY an IN, where I hang around, Hilary is the ONLY Democratic candidate who registered Dems say they will not vote for in 2008. The only one. That doesn’t just hurt the party’s outliook for 2008, it hurts the other candidates on the ticket.

Dodd deserved more time – he really should get some second looks and support. He certainly had The Answer for first thing he’d doin in office.

Edwards, Dodd and Obama would be my current favorites to look at (unless Gore gets in, of course).

I suppose Dodd voted for the AUMF? What’s his position on the war now and future occupation of the permanent bases? I don’t suppose with these debates we’ll ever hear his views on t.v., unless he survives to the final 4. He has some rep as a Liberal, is he anything like a DLCer? How’d he vote on the bankruptcy bill?

A good question to ask the candidates to clarify their positions is whether they think that getting rid of Saddam and occupying Iraq makes America safer from terrorism.

Only now we get the fire and brimstone…

But where was Little Miss Muppet outrage and criticism over the last seven years… when Feingold was calling Bush on illegal spying, gitmo, elections fraud Alito — you name it…

I felt like I was being forced to watch an episode of American Idol…

God she’s sooo unauthentic.

“inauthentic”

“I think this guy Murphy’s credit card got declined half way through his Hairclub for Men treatments.”

LMAO

GSD @ 228

Hillary. A quick schvitz of this on your ankles will do wonders.

-The Fashion Fascists

shvitz means “sweat” or a “steam bath.”

Did you mean shpritz?

…it’s hard to forget how good things were when the Clintons ran the show. And they now know so much more. Hillary as president would be an astounding thing and having Bill with her, well, we could not do better. Experience, sophistication, brains, diplomacy, compassion and they are eager to give it another shot. Only Gore would as good.
Consider ourselves lucky that they would be willing to do this very hard job again.

spiderpaws @ 323

…it’s hard to forget how good things were when the Clintons ran the show. And they now know so much more. Hillary as president would be an astounding thing and having Bill with her, well, we could not do better. Experience, sophistication, brains, diplomacy, compassion and they are eager to give it another shot. Only Gore would as good.
Consider ourselves lucky that they would be willing to do this very hard job again.

“A snowball’s chance in Hell” = Hillary’s chances of being elected.

Hillary won, in my view, but I am very disturbed by her assertion that we are safer now. What was she thinking?

Edwards improved, and he is still my favorite. He is honest, and he cares about the poor. He’s the real deal.

Obama looked good, but no better than expected. I did like when he answered about English only, to the effect that we have to stop asking divisive questions.

Biden helped himself, but he is still second tier. Ditto for Dodd, though kudos to him for saying he will restore civil rights on day one in office.

Richardson continued the trainwreck he started on Meet the Press.

Here in Alaska we know that Gravel is a dangerous joke.

What to watch for: Next week when Wolf does the republican debate, let’s see if he keeps asking candidates to say that the other repugs are “wrong,” as he did with the dems.

Please visit the Schapira blog, “What we know so far…”

… and tell ‘em Big Mitch sent ya!

lina @ 162

Mr.Murder @ 131

Obama kind of ignored the idea of continued moral high ground in prosecution of Bin laden.

Maybe he’s afraid there isn’t enough evidence to convict?

Why is Osama still not on the FBI ten most wanted list?

Maybe it points to a mossad cell I saw celebrating the towers collapse…

Why was a missile stirke on a building with children the issue, I think jawbreaker knew a time this was the case and Osama been forgotten…

So nice of Blitzer to forget who let Osama go and spin it vs. Dems, he knew what kind of answer Dennis K. would give.

I thought Osama had been on the list since ‘93.

Nope. I don’t think that bin Laden was even under indictment as a co-conspirator until 1999 or thereabouts. And that was after the embassy attacks in Africa.

I don’t think OBL has ever been on an FBI “Most Wanted List”, though. It’s not like he’s here in the USA, or likly to enter the US.

bin Laden is wanted by the FBI but not for having anything to do with 9/11.

spiderpaws @ 323

…it’s hard to forget how good things were when the Clintons ran the show. And they now know so much more. Hillary as president would be an astounding thing and having Bill with her, well, we could not do better. Experience, sophistication, brains, diplomacy, compassion and they are eager to give it another shot. Only Gore would as good.
Consider ourselves lucky that they would be willing to do this very hard job again.

They may have all the brains and diplomacy
but all we are going to hear 24/7 is Monica, Vince Foster, Whitewater, Travelgate. That it was a right wing witch hunt no longer matters to me. I don’t want to hear it anymore. Enough already. It’s time to move on. They don’t have special dibs on the Oval Office.

I thought Phil Leotardo made a convincing case for his ascendancy.

Big Mitch… “What was she thinking?”

Right there is where she’s posturing for the A I P A C and “9/11 terrr terr fear fear” crowd. Its a plank she needs to try and endorse, under the table, the neocon “defense” industry. HUGE HUGE HUGE error. HUGE. Republican.

Mr. Murder @ 315:

Good post. If Edwards thinks that the hard-charging regulatory zeal of the STATES are the answer to corporate excesses, let’s DO move him to the “B” list.

I had been leaning his way, but I’m flooding other compartments and starting to correct the “list”, as we speak. :o)

Jukesgrrrl @ 316:

“Tucker Carlson, their lovechild.”

When you send the new, keyboard, please have it be coffee-proof. :o)

We SHOULD give Edwards a point for saying “War on Terror” is a bumper-sticker slogan.

For which utterance (ahem) Hillary INSTANTLY bashed him.

Apparently Hillary likes the Global War on Terror slogan and would like to take it for a test drive.