The primary power of Congress — funding — has been put into an untouchable box by the rhetoricians of the right. They dare us to cut off funding for the troops if we hate the war so much. Our side's leaders then sputter that they "will never leave our troops in harm's way without everything they need." Their side's mouthpieces accuse our leaders of political cowardice by saying that they want to end the war but won't use their power to do so. But those who vote to close the purse are accused of undermining the troops.
So there is a "power of the purse," you see. Congress can cut off funds for a war that people don't like. In this connection, older readers might recall the Iran-contra affair, in which sources of money were found to keep the contra war going in Nicaragua without Congress's even knowing about it. This met with the enthusiastic approval of the Wall Street Journal, even though funds you do not know about are hard to cut off.
But what happens if you, as a member of Congress, do attempt to use the power of the purse? Sens. Clinton, Obama and Chris Dodd (also running for president) voted against the final Iraq funding bill because all meaningful deadlines and timetables had been stripped out so that President Bush would sign it. That Wall Street Journal editorial accuses these three Democratic senators of "vot[ing] to undermine U.S. troops in the middle of a difficult mission." If this is true of last week's vote, it will always be true of any attempt to cut off a war by cutting off funds. Unless the Journal is in favor of undermining U.S. troops, this makes the alleged "power of the purse" unusable.
Is that clear, Joe Sestak? Is that clear, Carl Levin? Is that clear, Joe Biden? Is that clear?
Advocates of the current war who enjoy the spectacle of war opponents caught in this trap of laws and logic had better hope that every military action a president chooses to engage in from here on out is as wonderful to them as is the war in Iraq. Because there is nothing war-specific about this line of argument. It would work just as well on an invasion of Canada or an aerial bombardment of Portugal. The president can do it if he wants to, and no one can legitimately stop him.
Congress's summer assignment: reframe the debate. Don't let the word "war" pass your lips again. Call this misadventure what it is: an occupation. Occupations aren't won or lost.
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ZED
hear! hear!
Good job Teddy. I think this quote from Joe Wilson earlier is part of your reframe the debate argument:
Cool Post Teddy. I like this part the best. The war is over. We had MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. This is occupation and the Iraqis don’t like us occupying them.
SnarKassandra @ 4
Too bad you are not old enough to run for Congress.
What is it about THIS post that almost makes me feel like fighting again?
TSF — nice post, thanks, very succinct, could easily be faxed to certain Senators (hint, hint).
Left you a reply in EPU last thread, BTW.
Sorry to be very OT and very sad. From The News Blog-
Steve Gilliard, 1966-2007
It is with tremendous sadness that we must convey the news that Steve Gilliard, editor and publisher of The News Blog (www.thenewsblog.net), passed away early this morning. He was 41.
Excellent.
We need to end the Iraqi occupation.
Our team needs to rollout “occupation” aggressively. When Tim Russert, in mid-question, refers to “the War in Iraq” — interrupt him, and ask, “Do you mean the Occupation, Tim?” When Wolf Blitzer asks about the war — reply quizzically “Are you speaking about our Occupation of Iraq, Wolf?”
And stop talking.
Make Tim or Wolf answer the question: “Why yes, Senator, I am.” “Yes, of course, Congressman, the Occupation.”
This is a relatively simple assignment. We in the blogosphere can help. But it’s our TeeVee Democrats who can make this happen — it will help them, it will help America, and it will help Iraq.
Dave Latchaw @ 8
OMG. I have to leave and work in my garden now. Go in peace Steve. There is nothing more to say.
Well said, Teddy.
Dave Latchaw @ 8
I’m so very sorry to hear that. Very sad, indeed.
oh my how awful
Dave Latchaw @ 8
His analysis will so be missed.
TeddySanFran @ 14
I never read his blog but I am sad for all of you who will miss him.
damn. RIP, Steve.
Dave Latchaw @ 8
Oh no.
I’m sure that there are others who started reading Steve’s columns on Kos many years ago. He leaves behind void that can’t be filled.
What a loss. We need more voices like Steve Gilliard’s, not less. My heart goes out to his family.
Call it the trillion dollar mistake, and force a vote to recover all the tax cuts from those who benefited as an Iraq Occupation Tax. Tie the tax to the defense budget.
Call it most expensive military folly ever.
Just don’t call it the War in Iraq, or the War on Terror.
Strip out funding for the Billion Dollar Emerald City Embassy Resort in the middle of Baghdad.
Eliminate any funding for outsourced contractors paid more than twice what an American marine makes.
Make it illegal for war contractors or their employees to contribute to any Congressional campaigns. Make it illegal for lobbyists who take funds from war contractors to contribute to Congressional campaigns. Call it the Troops Before Profit Integrity in Government Act, and keep talking about Duke Cunningham and Tom Delay.
Start coming up with bills like this that expose the corrupt Republicans and their allies.
Defunding the war means you are against the troops? This is a logic trap? Fund the troops retreat Democrats Bush has lost the war! What part of longer than World War 2 and getting worst doesn’t he understand?
Things Come Undone @ 22
I never see that “longer than WW2″ part on regular news sites or on TV. Only here and on liberal radio.
Here are some of my messaging attempts whilst blogging at home in my jammies….
Conservatives: Corporate freedom at your expense
Republicans: Freedom to choose for you
Republicans: Their freedom, your oppression
Republicans: Freedom to ruin the world
Progressives: Freedom to steward the world
Progressives: Freedom to end poverty
Progressives: Freedom to care for one’s
neighbor
Bush – His war: Our loss
Bush – His Decisions: Our Mess
How about some better messages than these fumbles?
I am so so sorry to hear about Steve G. His Iraq posts were the best. I’ll miss those and all his predictions that I so much wanted to come true.
TeddySanFran @ 10
Brilliant.
Is there an accountant in Congress, or do they just throw money at the Pentagon for Rumsfeld/Gates to do with as they wish? Bases in Iraq serving contractors Baskin Robbins? How’s about using the power of the purse a little more judiciously?
N=1 @ 24
What about the union thing and “freedom to get fired?”
Also, freedom to learn how to pass a test vs freedom to learn to think.
I keep saying this, but Congress should fully fund a “Bring the Troops Home Safe Bill”. Instead of non-funding the war, they should pro-fund the withdrawal.
N=1 —- I posted a list of secret Republican vocabulary in April. Maybe some of those words can help here. Also, people left comments and added to the list.
Teddy San Fran, Rarely a day goes by without this firepup taking silent but thankful pause for all you bring to the lake.
Thank you, Teddy.
and RIP Steve
Yes, Teddy, finally people bringing up the fact that the current crisis is NOT A WAR BUT A POLICE ACTION. Pres. Bush admitted it himself….in the photo-op above!! Mission Accomplished, end of war. So, instead of funding “the war” which the republicans try and tie this “war on terror” to, which has already been admitted by Bush at a news conference that there was: no Al Qaeda ties to Hussein, and two, there were no WMDs. So, democrats, get on the offensive! Get tough and say, you cannot call this a war anymore because Bush said we won it, exhibit #1, above-referenced photo-op.
So, we are going to stop this police action we are in, that we did not fund (that is why Cheney continues to trot out the connection to Qaeda and Iraq, because they want the congress to continue funding the “war on terror”, which as mentioned above, is NOT IN IRAQ PER THEIR OWN ADMISSIONS!!) I have read several times that the Viet Nam proponents insisted that we would be a communist state in a decade if we withdrew from Viet Nam….well, I know these two “wars” are not mutually exclusive, but it is a great references point to start from.
RIP Gilliard. Crap.
Great post, Teddy. Bullseye.
Thanks, LooHoo — the stop talking part is toughest for a pol, but the professional head in the split screen will likely fill the void, especially if they are caught off guard. I wish the pols would learn from Biden’s surprisingly successful one-word answer in the first debate.
Oh no…RIP Steve.
Support the Troops – Defund Bush
TSF – Go Teddy Go!!
John Emerson @ 28
I agree. It makes me sick the way the repubs beat the dems when it comes to framing issues or naming bills. We really need to change that. And who couldn’t get behind a ‘Bring the Troops Home Safely’ bill
SnarKassandra @ 29
Thanks, SnarKassandra – I’m going to have some fun with that. Are you by any chance in the National Forensic League? I hope so – for our benefit.
Our Democratic leaders really need to hammer the GOP on this new Korea bullshit from Dear Leader: “Do you agree, Senator, that we will be in Iraq for fifty years?”
I do have one problem though. Just got my t-shirt from John Edwards. You know the one…’Support the Troops..End the War’
Anyone know embroidery?
solai @ 35
But the repubs and media would re-name it the DEFEAT BILL or something.
Thansk, TSF. I commented on your articulate summary on the Sestak thread.
Several people there said “I don’t want there to be a repeat of the scene of people scrambling onto helicopters at the American Embassy in Vietnam.”
Well, I was around for Vietnam. And at this point, I’d give up plenty of “disengage with honor” or whatever bullshit people are “holding out for” to put our kids on helicopters out of Iraq.
Who are we to say they have to die so we can “save face”? Whatever “face” we may have thought we had has been so totally destroyed by Bush that there’s nothing to be lost by “cutting & running.”
Better to “cut & run” and have all those troops ALIVE and the money in our treasury than to “stay and fight” in a hopeless quagmire.
Oh no. May you find peace, Steve.
solai, I share your guarded optimism. In fact, I’ve taken Tuesday as a personal necessity day to
fully attend to the live-blogging.
Hi everyone-
TSF, I think your sugestion for reframing the terms of the debate is brilliant. Language control is thought control, and as long as the Republicans are allowed to get away with the “heads I win, tails you lose” framing you so correctly pointed out, a cut-off of funding will be seen and accepted as a Democratic surrender.
Go in peace, Steve G.
Congress, do not continue to enable the Bush administration to hold our troops hostage in order to implement the neocons’ bloody occupation for future corporate oil profits.
Stop it now!!!!!!!
N=1 @ 36
Nope. Never heard of it. Looking it up now. Ohh!! I am joining debate next semester so maybe I will then.
We should frame the question of funding the war AS FUNDING THE WAR! All new spending on the war should be paid for in the current budget. Finnancing a war on debt that is gathering more interests the longer it does not get paid does not seem like something the WallStreet Journal should support. But if the war doesn’t get paid for now that is exactly what will happen. So I suggest the “Pay for Bush’s oil war tax ” to be levied on oil companies and the Main Stream Media.
This was rumbling around in the back of my mind last year, but I keep wondering if recruiting so many vets to run as Democratic candidates was brilliant politically but bad for policy purposes. Their concern for the men and women of the armed services on a personal level, which I believe to be sincere, seems to make them vulnerable to being boxed in by Republicans who are loud and insincere about it. Paul Reikhoff of IAVA expressed similar sentiements on Countdown, that he thought most of the troops in the field would be glad to know the funding was on the way, and don’t enjoy Congress debating it.
Sometimes you have to be willing to take actions that you might not like right now if you were serving in the field in order to achieve what both you and those in the field want down the road, which is to get out.
Can’t we just say that we support the troops but not Blackwater and Halliburten?
On May 26, I said this:
I’m glad to see that Kinsley (and Teddy!) and and others get it too.
It’s pathetic how the Dems walk into these traps every time. Hell, this isn’t even a good trap – they could get out with nothing but a sentence or two of common sense, but they refuse to do so.
RIP Steve Gilliard. Too much loss around and about, now.
TeddySanFran, I don’t recall seeing your byline on a base blogpost, but I’m certain to be proven wrong. In any case, a fine job… (as usual?) :)
———
‘PupMap (645 people!), Chat, Calendar, Timeline (Click here or on my .SIG above)
There’s also a math issue with regard to the one hundred billion dollar supplemental.
pow wow @ 99
I think $25b was for not-war, but that still leaves $75b, which should fund the occupation at current $2b/week until March 2008, not September 2007.
Or — is the occupation costing more than $2,000,000,000 a week?
May the voter fraud evidence rise up and get them all arrested once and for all – every last one of them. That’ll end it.
645!
Loo Hoo. @ 43
Unbelievably, we rec’d word from our techies on Friday that all computers will be inoperable on Tuesday for some work they’ll be doing. Immediately put in for personal day.
TCU #47,
I agree with your suggestion in everyway but one: terminology. No Democrat should use the word “war” wrt Iraq, ever again. Henceforth, it should be “occupation”. Without exception. How about the “Bush Iraq Occupation Tax”?
From Huffington Post:
California Primary Ballot May Contain Immediate Iraq Withdrawal Initiative!
The “power off the purse” is the second issue, the “authority to fight a war” is the first.
I would really like our Democratic leaders to start saying:
1. The President does not determine whether our military goes to war, Congress does.
2. The “Generals on the ground” do not determine whether the military conducts a war, Congress does. The Generals decide how to fight a war, the Congress decides whether they will conduct one in the first place.
Say it loud & clear boys and girls who serve in Congress (the media that purports to report on this topic) — when it comes to war: the military answers to the commander-in-chief; the commander-in-chief answers to Congress; and Congress answers to the American people.
That is the law. That is the constitutional framework. That is the structure of the U.S. government. Those are also the facts everyone with the responsibility for our troops, the responsibility for our security and the responsibility for the U.S. war & occupation of Iraq continuously fail to acknowledge as they skirt their constitutional responsibilities.
When Congress cuts funding, they are doing their job. If the troops are undermined by the democratic political process, then the President has failed to do his job and failed to be the commander-in-chief.
–End of story–
When are the Democrats going to learn to grab Mister Bush by the scruff of his neck, push his nose into that big fat shit he dropped on the world’s carpet and then whack him feverishly over the nose with a rolled up copy of the Constitution???
I keep waiting.
slainte,
cl
The long and the short of it:
“If not now, When?….Ever?”
The thing I find missing is the Mario Cuomo like speaker who weaves the entire tale into a coherent story for the listening pleasure of the American electorate. Now that the Dems have decided to sit it out until 2008, then there is only one place to make this connect-the-dots summation–and it is the only remaining place. That is the Democratic National Convention. Yes, I know you think “God, what a terrible venue..” but it is the only place left where the microphones are on long enough and the rostrum camera steady enough for anyone to make a speech that counts if you are not already President.
Cheney and Bush are oil men who presented the nation with deception after deception to fool America into a quagmire. It was over oil, not democracy, liberty, terror, or freedom. They arranged escalating the troops at the same time they were under-equipping them to create a funding crisis, and have thereby made permanent occupation a fait accompli. And they did because oil partner Saudi Arabia did not want our presence in their country anymore, but neither they nor Bush-Cheney would level with the public and say it out loud.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 57
Which inspired me to send in a donation to the California Democratic Party.
SnarKassandra @ 49
Yes! Defund the Mercs now Democrats letting Bush have a private army loyal to him and paid for by us is insane. Someday this war will be over and the Mercs will come home looking for work.
Haiku inspired by this morning’s seesion with Joe Sestak
Come fall appraisal,
Petreus and the rest
Congress small once more will make.
Netroot dollars, as
green snow, deep in oh six autumn,
come oh seven drys like tears.
Blue American anger
in packets sent, vents
deeply the fly over country.
So long, Steve. We’ll miss ya, big guy.
Funny, we’ve just been discussing this point in the Blue America Sestak thread ;)
I don’t see why Democrats are letting themselves be framed this way, except that, of course, many voted for the war in the first place. Even so, they didn’t rush into it unprepared, they expected for the inspections to be finished, and they certainly assumed that we wouldn’t be fighting a progressively worsening resistance movement/civil war four years later.
Every time one of Bush’s press sycophants try to push the “Democrats are endangering the troops meme”, they need to push back. Just say that they aren’t the idiot who sent them there without a plan for the aftermath, nor are they the fool who insists on keeping them there four years later even though it’s perfectly clear they’re not doing any good.
And they should remember while they’re saying it that two-thirds of the country who don’t live in Washington, DC are thinking that very thing.
Steve Gilliard, rest in peace.
What a terrible loss. What a mind.
Caoimhin Laochdha @ 57
But I think Cheney and Rove CANCELLED all the laws.
Thank you Steve.
Thank you Steve’s family for sharing him with us.
Rest in peace.
cl
Mauimom @ 41
Wasn’t there just something on the blogs w/in the past few days about ANOTHER bridge being blown/?/damaged? If so, the helicopter scenerio becomes increasingly more likely.
RonD @ 56
agreeded keep reminding me!
DebSnarKassandra @ 46
Debate is good – but if you can, look into extemporaneous speaking – excellent prep for law, journalism, writing, policy, etc. You have obvious talent – and it used to be that you could compete in an individual and a team event. Many national competitors end up at Northwestern – it’s been so long that I have forgotten where some of the other powerhouse colleges and universities are for NFLers.
I will miss Steve for his keen analyses, sharp mind, refusal to accept bullsh*t, and love of great food! Damn.
me @ 50…
Actually, I was thinking of a previous FDL post, not the one I linked to. Result: redundancy.
Ah well.
The problem is that I lisp my SSS a little bit and it’s sometimes hard for people to understand me. But I do have a speech/communications class next semester also.
Has anyone here donated to the democratic party since the May vote? I have not. I did donate to Edwards but the requests I got from the party were refused. I know that the repubs are saying donations are down. I ‘m waiting to see the dems report the same thing.
RonD @ 44
Jim Webb has been doing this consistently, saying that we won the war and the question is now of ending the occupation. His rhetoric has unfortunately not been picked up by other Democrats, as far as I know.
Caoimhin Laochdha @ 58
I agree wholeheartedly. I’ve even written that once or twice (the historians among you will notice I wrote that in January, so it’s not exactly a new thought for me). Yet I’m struck by the number of people, who when you first broach this idea, just say “You can’t do that!”, as though there were some physical law preventing it from occuring. I suppose we’re just so used to the imperial presidency that we don’t know any better.
“Congress’s summer assignment: reframe the debate. Don’t let the word “war” pass your lips again. Call this misadventure what it is: an occupation. Occupations aren’t won or lost.”
Adding my OK! to this sentiment.
I’ll miss Steve Gilliard – he was always so ahead of everything…
Things Come Undone @ 60
A Federal Judge may have done just that…
Veritas78 @ 70
One of his most memorable articles, for me, was the one where he invited his readers to share their meatloaf recipes with Jen.
I will really, really miss Steve. I already do.
SnarKassandra @ 65
SnarKassandra, you are correct, they did cancel them. And by continuing not to use their authority, Congress allows the cancellation to continue.
What is more sickening: (a) Mister Bush and the Penguin canceling our laws or (b) Congress’s unwillingness to use them? Hard to tell sometimes.
cl
Alfred Kelgarries @ 77
YES!!! And let’s call them what they are “mercenaries” not contractors.
Waccamaw @ 67
Perhaps this bridge?
TSF don’t get mad. I know that wiki will tell me the difference between a mercenary and a contractor, but …. aren’t SOME of the contracts for stuff that isn’t mercenary? Like washing clothes and cooking.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 82
Sounds like they’re trying to cut off supplies, and apparently they have been successful recently.
SnarKassandra @ 72
A decent NFL coach/teacher should be able to help you compensate for that, and the upcoming class should include techniques to help, as well. You might nose around the NFL website to see if that’s addressed anywhere – maybe under coaching techniques or delivery techniques. Way back when, the volunteer coaches who assisted the speech teacher/coach were other language teachers, parents who were community professionals and interested adults in the local community theater. You might be able to find someone with experience who would tutor and privately coach you, as well. That was fairly common for many of the speech team competitors.
Didn’t mean to get so OT – if you like, you can email me at univrslhealth at gmail dot com
Caoimhin Laochdha @ 80
There is no contest in my mind. For Joe ‘The Whiner’ Sestak to come on FDL and spout ReThug lies and spin is beyond disgusting…
It’s fukin’ Unacceptable.
He will get no support nor money from me in the future even should he ‘change his position….’
Appeasers are not welcome in my neck of the woods.
SnarKassandra @ 83
Yes, they are. In fact, I think most are for things other than “security”, the rubric that generally covers the hired guns. One of the unsettling things about this war is the number of contractors, of all types, that are being used to support it.
SnarKassandra @ 83
An example of exactly what you are remembering.
As Steve Gilliard said – We Fight Back!
As TRex said – attack Attack ATTACK ATTACK!!!
As Joe Sestak said – I will never vote to make them less safe as I work to redeploy them in a timely and safe manner.
As Joe Wilson said – [we have] an obligation to serve as a guarantor of Israel’s territorial integrity.
As Israel’s Sephardi chief rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu stated, through his son Schmuel on Thursday, regarding innocent Palestinian civilians – “If they don’t stop after we kill 100, then we must kill a thousand,” said Shmuel Eliyahu. “And if they do not stop after 1,000 then we must kill 10,000. If they still don’t stop we must kill 100,000, even a million. Whatever it takes to make them stop.”
I wonder how many Palestinians in Gaza had the time and place to take their little daughters swimming in a nice, safe, clean pool this morning, Joe W?
I hate every minute of this goddam fucking war!
Redshift @ 48
Don’t forget this, from Holy Joe’s recent photo op:
“Contractor” is a dressed-up word used to disguise the combat, force protection, and security roles of the mercenaries. Some families of Blackwater employees killed in Iraq thought their relatives were “contractors” not realizing they were in a combat role. “Contractor” is used deliberately to make the mercenary role sound less lethal.
There are also non-American contractors, some of whom come from countries with laws against their citizens being mercenaries, like South Africa. Highly recommended: Jeremy Scahill’s Blackwater, my current read.
Cujo359 @ 87
We are also subcontracting the CIA!
solai @ 73
Twice since the May vote, set up for 12 hours of volunteer work next week.
Ed*ard Teller @ 89
Brilliant!!! :P
LS @ 81
Wow. That vet is a hero.
I don’t suppose being incompetent and LOOSING a war to A third world nation could be construed as the high crimes and misdemeanours needed to be impeached? I mean he invaded a country with less ties to Al Quieda than Pakistan or Saudia Arabia because they “supposedly ” had ties! He also justifed the war by saying that Iraq had weapons of Mass Destruction, WRONG AGAIN! Now he claims we went in to Iraq to help the Iraqi people because Saddam was killing them! Which to be fair is true Saddam gassed Kurdish villages with Poision Gas that America GAVE HIM after Donald Rumsfeld visited Saddam in Iraq! When will this administration be forced to give us one REAL reason for this war? Incompetence is not a defense for being fired.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 92
Another process that’s been underway for some time, but seems to be reaching its logical conclusion now. I have no direct experience, but from other readings like this one and from folks who used to work in the intelligence area one way or another, dependence on contractors has been increasing for a while. The problem, as the article states, is that many of the better people are getting fed up and leaving the civil service jobs. Soon, if it hasn’t happened already, the government will have no idea what its contractors are really doing.
Things Come Undone @ 96
I’m not sure that fighting, or even losing, a war for no good reason is an impeachable offense. Others can reasonably disagree. However, I think setting up the situation that caused us to enter that conflict by deliberately lying and manipulating intelligence access ought to be.
I missed the story of another bridge being destroyed. The military is succeeding in controlling the message. I know that’s not news to anyone but they’re getting even better at it. Just in the past month they’ve taken several steps to stop bad news from getting out. This administration puts a great deal of energy into creating their own reality. And they are very good at it.
If you can’t be with the war you love, love the war you’re with!
Rumsfeld may have attempted to start a nuclear war with China over Taiwan!
Cheney’s staff attempts to force a confrontation with Iran leading to war!
US Military blythely ignores upcoming war between Kurds and Turkey!
If lying America into a war of choice isn’t an impeachable offense, it’s hard to imagine what would be.
TeddySanFran @ 101
Which makes our current situation all the more mystifying.
Aeolus @ 21
Why not make it even easier:
First vote a multi-billion dollar set aside fund specifically for the logistics of bringing troops home. Whoever votes against that will not be supporting the troops.
The day that is signed, vote to cut off all Iraq war funds.
Cujo359 @ 102
So why can’t the Congress see that?
Off to prepare for a night out. See you all later.
Anybody know what got put in Carl Levin’s drinking water? He used to be one of the good guys, and now every time he opens his flytrap out come neocon talking points. Is he now this year’s Joe Lieberman? Sure looks like it.
I’m not AT ALL impressed with what Rep. Sestak has to say. When you cut through the pretty words and the Republican talking points, you are left with the actions: he voted for a blank check for Bush to continue his war on the nation’s dime. We elected him to work to end the war, and he took the thirty pieces of silver instead. Thanks for that, Congressman Sestak. Some here might forgive you, but I sure as fuck won’t.
solai @ 105
Have fun!!!!
Cujo359 @ 75
Cujo,
Thank you for the references to your blog – very well done. I’ve bookmarked it. Your analysis is spot on!
slainte,
cl
Alfred Kelgarries @ 82 -
The same! Thank you.
Do you mind being called “AK”? My digits seem to be intent on mangling your last name. ;-)
SnarK #104,
Because many, if not most, of our Congreecritters are beholden to the same interests that are benefiting from the current status quo, and many also don’t want to derail the big electric train before they get a chance to drive.
It is very clear that the war was started based on a bunch of lies, and the democrats continue to let this goes on, whatever the casualties that we endure now democrats will have a hand on it, it is so ashame. Yes, when you have the power use it, there is 60% of Americans against this Bush-War, don’t fall into the same trap as in the 2004 elections !
I know that the war is issue #1, but we also have to keep an eye on other priorities,
like the Supreme Court. Who would we rather have voting to confirm judges,
a less-than-perfect Democrat or a Republican?
SnarKassandra @ 104
“Politics is the art of the possible”. Right now, Congress is unlikely to impeach Bush, because there aren’t enough people who care enough about the country there to do it. The Republicans certainly won’t, because they know where their next election budget is coming from, and Karl Rove and Crew control much of that source. Some Democrats won’t for one reason or another. That leaves something like a scant majority or even a minority in favor.
Therefore, when you have other things to get done, it’s a waste of time.
That’s their reasoning, I think. It doesn’t reflect mine.
Waccamaw @ 109
the only time i had a problem with being called AK was when i was 47. stupid russian acronym.
BTW, here is an excellent timeline of the fun and frolic in the Green Zone!
Alfred Kelgarries -
the only time i had a problem with being called AK was when i was 47. stupid russian acronym.
Translation, please?
Wow! I could get buried in that timeline linky for days. Will bookmark, tks.
RIP, Steve Gilliard. RIP.
What sad, sad news. Funny, I have been thinking about him lately–checking the Newsblog for news and such, wondering.
Just a small example of why US Big Oil wants control exerted over Iraq and Iran:
http://www.payvand.com/news/07/may/1093.html
W #115
Avtomat Kalashnikova obrazets 1947, otherwise known as the AK-47. The most prolific assault rifle in the world.
Waccamaw @ 115
The most common soviet-block assault rifle used by insurgents around the world is the Kalashnikov model A47, most commonly referred to by non-russians as….
…The AK47.
Boy did i get a lot of ribbing over that little coinkidink…
Jane upstairs
FYI, All great thread are followed by new and sometimes a little sad great threads
I don’t care if we lose an impeachment vote I just want America to see Democrats ask Bush
1) How long did it take America to win WW2. Now how long have we been in Iraq?
2) If Ossama is in Pakistan? and 15 of the 19 hijackers are Saudi why didn’t we invade those countries? How many Hijackers were Iraq Mr President?
3) what is the bigger number Mr President the tax cuts you gave the rich or the amount of money that it will take to pay for this war which you finnanced ENTIRELY on credit.
How many Americans still think Saddam had ties to Ossama around 50% ? So Bush is in the 30%s even with half of America believing his lies! An impeachment trial would help expose the other half of America to the truth and lower Bush’s poll numbers even more!
RonD & AK -
Color me one cell short a brain. *g*. Tks!
Howard Dean suggested it on Colbert.
The CBS pulled article said it was already a plan.
50,000 troops there beyond 2009.
Sestak did not address this in any form.
Overall: 10% substance/ 90% abstractions (blergh!)
(I am holding back my expletives.)
On par, FDLers posed excellent Qns:
70% of the Oil to be corporate
40% of expenses “blacked out”
and more: What about their economy?
You know, the incentives for human beings
as an alternative to the “best option” of
merely disrupting supply chains?
Concrete answers? Zed. Not the fun kind.
Congress doesn’t have those answers.
The Pentag*n does. And they’re not talking.
In the meantime, Cujo @ 113 is right,
politics is the art of the possible.
Like TSF @ 10 said: Reframe the debate.
Judo what they already have in motion.
Please hear me out – as a member of a military
family, this is the best I can glean at this point, considering all sides:
It’s about changing the mission.
Beginning with calling it an occupation…
It is doubtful that we can bring them all home.
not likely to happen.
It’s about changing how many are over there.
and Why they are there.
If Dem leaders are to “join up with ‘Pubs, if only to change their direction”
then we need to be hearing:
“We’ll only fund X# of troops and only if they are there for Y reason.”
(and with collaboration from A, B, C
who share a vital interest in Y reason)
Please don’t kill the messenger — but:
Our reps can’t twist out of this because
we’re pressing them for something that
will not happen anytime in the near future.
(complete withdrawal).
/rant
just steaming after 2 abstraction-ridden
performances by our guests (Dodd included)
We will be there.
The questions are,
How many? How long? What mission?
Clark on Alan Colmes radio show, 5/30/07:
Full interview HERE.
The unseen debate continues to rage between rational policy makers and Dick Cheney’s “bomb ‘em back to the stone age” team.
I guess when you’re the unconstitutional power behind an empty throne, you have to keep your boss and his team as unsettled and tense as the rest of the world, lest they start asking obvious questions like, “Um, why are you at my meeting? You haven’t any authority and the president hasn’t delegated any to you; please leave.”
Mr. Cheney’s principal deputy assistant for national security affairs seems the guy currently delegated to keep the “Bomb Iran” pot boiling. But I’m curious. Why does the Vice President have any principal deputy assistants, much less one “responsible” for national security?
Is it proof that Commander Codpiece is all inflatable device and no piece? Or is it that everyone knows Shrub lives a caricatured existence? His CEO caricature is the guy who “signs off on stuff”, gets his picture taken, shakes hands, raises a little money, and is off duty at 6.00 pm sharp, minus to the two-hour afternoon workout.
If Mr. Bush were not a MoDo caricature, if he had earned his Harvard MBA and the title of CEO, surely he would never tolerate a competing power center as openly insubordinate as Mr. Cheney’s.
Perhaps MoDO could take a break from slamming “Chanel bags surrounded by Chanel bags” (Catherine Deneuve and friends in Paris) and Mr. Edwards’ hair and point her hot-flashed talons at the oddly Freudian submissiveness of Mr. B, before he lets Mr. C start World War Three.
We are on to something. Accurate terminology. I agree we should use the power of language by calling an act, policy, thing what it is. Mercenaries are hired killers. They love killing for the joy of killing. So, Blackwater is a corporation in the business of killing, not providing security contractors.
I refuse to call this a war. It wasn’t declared by Congress therefore it is an illegal occupation. And there is no such thing as a war on a technique (war on terror). Contact your senators and congressperson and demand they use accurate language. We can keep the calls going by making a call every week about terminology.
Firepups have to do what Dems are incapable of doing – acting with backbone. Just demand accurate terminology.
Let’s do it! Come Monday morning I will call both my senators and congressman (1 Dem and 2 Reps but given the supplemental vote it could be 3 Reps). Who will join me?
I have a new post up about Texas being #1 in carbon emissions. Also, if you want, you can see the writings of our newest writer, Bryce. He is a great writer and really funny. YOUTHINKLEFT
I stopped calling it a war after the “Mission Accomplished” sham. I’ve encouraged anyone I speak to to also refer to the occupation as the “occupation”. You have to start by defunding the language these monsters use.
This has always seemed so obvious to me.
Stagger Lee @ 129
I still think of it as a war. It’s an occupation in the middle of a civil war, I suppose, but it certainly has some aspects of warfare.
Thank you, Teddy – excellent job of channelling rage very productively in this post.
FYI (re TSF @ 52)- I was discounting the $20 billion or so of non-Iraq supplemental funding off the top by using “$100 billion” for the Iraq/Afghanistan part of the supplemental (its official total is actually $120 billion, including the other emergency funds that were included such as farming/drought relief).
I actually wonder how many Members of Congress have any clue as to the details of the Iraq funding they voted for (not to mention the paucity of details the Pentagon provides them with to begin with).
From Shailagh Murray’s account in the Washington Post:
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/22908
Haven’t yet tried to decipher the actual bill language itself to figure out where the extra unexplained $66-odd billion is supposed to be going (MRAP vehicles for one, I think), since ongoing operations through September (if the cost is still around $2 billion a week, at least) seem to be covered by the first $33 billion…
Cujo359 @ 130
We are not at war with the Iraqi citizens. We are not at war with the Iraqi government. We invaded their country, overthrew their government, and continue to occupy their country. Those elements who do not want our country to occupy Iraq create chaos. Most of them are Iraqi citizens resisting the occupation. Some of them are fighting each other in a power struggle. Some of them are people from other countries that have come into Iraq to aid whatever religious or political faction they support. You could say our military personnel are insurgents in Iraq if their purpose is to fight Al-Qaeda. No matter how you turn it around, the only “war” in Iraq is a civil war. We are involved in a military combat occupation operation in a sovereign nation that has resulted in their civil war.
Bless you, Teddy.
I went out to my garden to find a couple of pebbles to mail to Admiral Setsak after his rhetorical contortions here.
If we send him enough pebbles, perhaps by September he’ll find the stones to vote against King George’s occupation.
Maybe he can learn about those Founders and how they intended for Congress to act independently.
It’s in that Constitution thingy he swore to uphold.
Worth a read – even though his King thinks it’s “a goddamned piece of paper”.
Wonder what the Admiral will make of the Constitution when he gets around to meeting it.
Maybe the Admiral’s shy.
Hey – the Lake has Constitutional scholars, right?
We could set up the Admiral and the Constitution to “get together”.
Perhaps we could make their first date at one of the monthly ceremonies…
for the troops who will die on the Admiral’s watch…
after he couldn’t defy the King with even a symbolic vote.
kirk murphy @ 133
Yeah. Hey Congress, just for us citizens, sorry to interrupt your lives, but do you think you could Abide by the Thingy you took an Oath to Protect!!!
“freedom to learn how to pass a test vs freedom to learn to think.”
This what happens when a country dumbs down. When Bush went into his cowboy act America bought. We are so screwed, no politician has the backbone to do anything that isn’r politically Maher correct. Redefining the dialoque would help. Every city and state should be asked by their dem party for an Initiative to de-occupy Iraq and the Middle East. My condolences to those who survived Steve Guilliard… the best tribute to a fallen comrade is getting out there and kicking some neocon ass.
Apparently, you haven’t noticed there has been a COUP.
Apparently you haven’t noticed the massive vote-fraud and caging lists of the last seven years.
Apparently you are unaware that the Dem Congress is the ONLY thing holding back the collapse of the Constitution, and — NO — liberal or leftist propaganda aside, Congress has NEVER defunded a war without the media on it and the populace in the streets on a mass scale.
So blaming these FINE DEMOCRATS for their inability to remove the 109th co-conspirators from their way, or for the existence of the Blue Dogs, who have voted with Bush’s illegal war the whole way down the line.
Assignment for summer: FIGURE OUT HOW TO STOP BLAMING OUR HARD-WORKING DEMOCRATS for the actions of those in the Congress who do not care if the Constitution survives.
NAY VOTES ON HR 2202:
Abercrombie
Ackerman
Allen
Arcuri
Baldwin
Becerra
Bishop (NY)
Blumenauer
Brady (PA)
Braley (IA)
Brown, Corrine
Capps
Capuano
Carnahan
Carson
Castor
Clarke
Clay
Cleaver
Cohen
Conyers
Costello
Courtney
Crowley
Cummings
Davis (AL)
Davis (IL)
DeFazio
Delahunt
DeLauro
Doggett
Doyle
Duncan
Ellison
Eshoo
Farr
Fattah
Filner
Frank (MA)
Green, Al
Grijalva
Gutierrez
Hall (NY)
Hare
Harman
Hastings (FL)
Higgins
Hinchey
Hirono
Hodes
Holt
Honda
Hooley
Inslee
Israel
Jackson (IL)
Jackson-Lee (TX)
Jefferson
Johnson (GA)
Johnson, E. B.
Kaptur
Kennedy
Kilpatrick
Klein (FL)
Kucinich
Langevin
Lantos
Larson (CT)
Lee
Loebsack
Lofgren, Zoe
Lowey
Lynch
Maloney (NY)
Markey
Matsui
McCarthy (NY)
McCollum (MN)
McDermott
McGovern
McNerney
McNulty
Meehan
Meeks (NY)
Michaud
Miller (NC)
Miller, George
Moore (WI)
Moran (VA)
Murphy (CT)
Murphy, Patrick
Nadler
Napolitano
Neal (MA)
Obey
Olver
Pallone
Pascrell
Pastor
Paul
Payne
Pelosi
Perlmutter
Price (NC)
Rangel
Rothman
Roybal-Allard
Rush
Ryan (OH)
Snchez, Linda T.
Sanchez, Loretta
Sarbanes
Schakowsky
Schiff
Scott (VA)
Serrano
Shea-Porter
Sherman
Sires
Slaughter
Smith (WA)
Solis
Stark
Sutton
Tauscher
Thompson (CA)
Tierney
Towns
Udall (NM)
Van Hollen
Velzquez
Waters
Watson
Watt
Waxman
Weiner
Welch (VT)
Wexler
Woolsey
Wu
Wynn
Yarmuth
And 19 Senators.
(I left in the TWO Republicans who voted Nay, Hunter and Ron Paul. Don’t you think your anger might be better directed at the TWO HUNDRED AND EIGHTY yea voters, including the entire R caucus, minus these two?)
OUR part of the Congress, OUR part of the party caucus, DID NOT FAIL.
Find some other way to refer to those who did, rather than to lump them in with our good representatives, especially who have put up with incredible shit since Nine-eleven, like NAY-VOTING Speaker Pelosi.
The unusable power?
‘freedom to learn how to pass a test vs freedom to learn to think.’
To honor the passed is to pickup their weapon and slay the enemy… ignorance, injustice and unkindness.
Congress has the power Waxman and Conyers need stronger support. Every tool available to take back our country the light of the free world. It is darkest before the dawn.
Reading this diary at Kos made me feel better today:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..74554/4267
Paul in LA @ 136
Okay. Great comment!
Ed*ard Teller @ 93
Got a phone call from the DCCC today. Told ‘em in no uncertain terms that while we like VanHollen [our Congressman], there’s NO WAY we’ll be giving to the “national” Dems [other than Dean/DNC]. We said some very nasty words about our “friend” Rahm. Mr. DCCC kept trying to tell us that Rahm wasn’t heading the DCCC any more. We replied, “no matter. Until they each grow a pair, no $. We only give to individual candidates.”
There’s “operational” funding and “redeployment” funding.
BushCo has bundled these two issues together, claiming that any defunding on the “operational” end, especially where any “redeployment” deadlines are concerned, is abandoning our troops.
Thus, an “operational” funding bill just passed, with no “reployment-out-of-Iraq” deadlines attached, an “operational” funding bill that contains plenty of money for “redeploying” our troops out of the middle of a civil war, but which we all know won’t happen, not with Bush and Cheney still running (and ruining) things.
And when the next “operational” funding bill comes up, BushCo will use the same tactics and same language, inferring that anyone not for fully funding their little Iraq occupation (without any deadlines) is endangering our troops in Iraq, potentially leaving them defunded and stranded.
However, Democrats (and any Republicans left with a conscience) can defuse this argument with one fell swoop.
Democrats in Congress MUST pass legislation that specifically focuses on funds for the reployment of our troops out of Iraq, no deadlines, no timetables, just funds set aside as an “escrow” account in the federal treasury, for when the order is finally given to get all of our troops out of Iraq.
This will place BushCo (and their rubber-stamp Republicans in Congress) in a quandary.
Operational funding has already passed. This Democratic “redeployment” funding bill, therefore, doesn’t interfere with day-to-day operational funding in any way, thus there can be no claim that what Democrats have proposed somehow endangers our troops.
On the contrary, this “rainy day redeployment fund” is just on “standby,” waiting to be tapped into someday, hopefully sooner rather than later, a “redeployment” fund established solely for the purpose of making certain that none of our troops are “left behind” in Iraq.
BushCo will still probably veto this bill, but they will have a very hard time defending such a blatantly “endangering the troops” action.
I mean, who wouldn’t be for providing enough money for when the time comes that the order is given for our troops to leave Iraq? Only a complete idiot or fool would be against a “support the troops” funding bill, that pays in advance for redeploying our troops out of Iraq, like the one I’ve just suggested.
Oh, right, we are talking about Bush and Cheney, who want U.S. troops in Iraq, in the middle of a civil war, forever.
TeddySanFran.. Exactly, eh..
DEMs Re-framing and learning to reframe Repubs on TV.
Could the Lake hold a reframe debate here after the Sunday talk shows?
CL at 58
YouTube please!
Do we dare disturb the universe?
OK the Dems folded. It is reasonable to see the 2006 election as a vote against the war. Polls show 70% of us against. Where does that leave us when Congress refuses to act for whatever rationalization?
Anyone interested in defunding Congress or do we pay taxes as usual? We have the hierarchical habit. We do things we don’t like doing because the law says so-Judges who hate the war sentencing protestors or generals who think plans hopelessly deficient marching off anyhow? Employers forwarding withheld taxes though their employees prefer they don’t? The list is endless. Do we individually have any responsibility? Afraid of anarchy? Maybe it’s better than what we have