Shorter George Will: "Ask what you can do to help yourself, and screw everyone else. Do unto others and grab as much as you can along the way, before they get around to doing unto you, that's the conservative way."
Well, that was refreshingly honest and up front, wasn't it?
H/T to Redshift and AZ Matt for the discussion on the Will op-ed. The above YouTube is the second half of Kennedy's inaugural address (link to full written text and audio as well), wherein he says the following:
Now the trumpet summons us again — not as a call to bear arms, though arms we need; not as a call to battle, though embattled we are — but a call to bear the burden of a long twilight struggle, year in and year out, "rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation" — a struggle against the common enemies of man: tyranny, poverty, disease, and war itself.
Can we forge against these enemies a grand and global alliance, North and South, East and West, that can assure a more fruitful life for all mankind? Will you join in that historic effort?
In the long history of the world, only a few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in its hour of maximum danger. I do not shrink from this responsibility — I welcome it. I do not believe that any of us would exchange places with any other people or any other generation. The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavour will light our country and all who serve it — and the glow from that fire can truly light the world.
And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country.
My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.
Ahhh, the good old days when leaders actually tried to lead, to call our nation forth to do the work necessary to secure access to peace and prosperity for all, and not just the gated community few. (The first part of the Kennedy inaugural on YouTube can be found here, for those who would like to watch the whole of it.)
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I ask that our Democratic Party wakes up!
JFK!
I second that motion.
zed
I was just half-listening to the WH daily presser and thought I heard a question posed that indicated that Walton had decided to release the Libby letters, but not sure I heard correctly. Anyone heard anything?
Listening to JFK speeches makes me want to weep for what’s become of political rhetoric in this country.
The public punditry contest deadline is tomorrow, btw.
http://freewayblogger.blogspot…..ntest.html
Even shorter George Will:
I got mine. F*ck you!
How about a little late morning schadenfreunde ?
FAT TONY SCALIA’S DAUGHTER NABBED FOR DUI AND CHILD-ENDANGERMENT!!!
Ok, I clicked over to the link. Do have to read all of his fatuous blather?
[Please say no - I’ll do something else for extra credit.]
Christy!
I noticed yesterday that Bush said something along the lines of to those much has been given, much is expected, but he didn’t see this as a personal mantra, but related it to the whole USA. So he doesn’t point to himself but all of you as on the hook. Much more comfy that way.
As it was related to AIDS funding I found it highly ironic since I doubt he’s changed tying funding to NOT supplying abortion counselling.
And what about condoms?
I tried to read that Will column, but I just do it anymore. I’ve read so many of his columns that my brain is getting soft. I just can’t take anymore.
As soon as he started setting up his false choice and straw man in the third graf, I folded. Sorry.
Hang the code.
Hang the rules.
They’re more like guidelines anyway.
Elizabeth in Pirates of the Caribbean.
We have pirates as so called leaders now. A gentleman thinks of what he should or should not do, a pirate only thinks of what he can and cannot do…
The good old days of Camelot, when propriety and facts still mattered. When our President wasn’t afraid of the press. When the press actually reported. sigh.
Tonster @ 5
You’re right! Think Progress has it.
Walton to release 150 letters.
Did you know that Fred Thompson served valiantly in the military? That’s right. As a younger man this war hawk answered the clarion call of ‘doing for his country’. He was an admiral in “The Hunt for Red October”.
Thank you for the YouTube link to the speech Christy. I remember watching it live although not really paying THAT much attention (I was only eight after all!) The folks were home that day as it was a state holiday and the schools were out as well. Also remember it being quite cold everywhere.
Kennedy did pretty much single handedly destroy a large part of the formal hat industry that day by going bare-headed. Up till then, the well dressed man wore a chapeau of some sort most everywhere…
This contrast really puts the lie to any pretensions by Will’s generation to be as heroic as their fathers (and mothers). How crass!
Tonster @ 5
After the sentencing.
Politicians right and left feel uncomfortable in the shadow of JFK’s eloquence at the microphone. He could also write his own book, without outside help, something few US politicians seem capable of doing. Profiles in Courage, which praised eight US Senators for courageously crossing party lines to solve national issues, received the Pulitzer Prize for biography in 1957. I suppose Kennedy would have been able to write a great post-presidential book about how he stopped the Vietnam War in 1964, had they allowed him to live.
The rare combination of public speaking eloquence and powerful writing capability matches only one major politician on the scene right now…
Bionic @ 14
Bet this is thanks to Jane and Marcy’s letter.
Fight on Ladies!!!
George Will is a stinking hypocrite and a perfect example of conservative pathology. These are people born without a conscience: they are sick and deranged people. As I’ve often argued before, because they lack empathy, they are unable to see how a given policy affects others UNTIL IT HAPPENS TO THEM.
So Will says “conservatives tend to favor freedom, and consequently are inclined to be somewhat sanguine about inequalities of outcomes.”
But that’s a lie: Will is not “somewhat sanguine about inequalities of outcomes” when it comes to his son, who has sever down syndrome. When it’s HIS family on the line, it’s a different matter, testifying on behalf of the national down syndrome society. Why is George “sanguine about inequality” Will trying to get special rights for certain individuals?
And so on down the line: Walter Jones was happy to send hundreds to their death in Iraq, until he personally went to one funeral too many. Arlen Specter, the cancer patient, supports medical marijuana because he benefits from it. McCain is pro-life, but says if his daughter had an unintended pregnancy, he’d allow her to make up her own mind about abortion. Nancy Reagan, a friend of the Falwells and Pat Robertsons, is mysteriously pro-stem cell research. Gee, I wonder why?
Loathesome, sick people. sub-human.
David Ehrenstein @ 8
Would you like fries with that schadenfreunde?
I second Scarlet’s comment. Every time I read or hear one of either JFK’s or RFK’s speeches, I want to cry.
We have been so dumbed down as a nation by the constant assault on progressive values. Literally, we have not progressed, we have regressed as a nation.
Over the last week I couldn’t help a gut reaction of disbelief and cynicism as Bush announced
– sanctions on Sudan (more than 3 years overdue);
– asked for more funds against AIDS (chronically underfunded if funded at all, and only with restrictions related to fundie ideology);
– and today, proposed reductions of greenhouse gases (just sign the years-past-due Kyoto Protocol, moron).
He can barely string together a coherent sentence, engages in such blatant lies and wanton corruption, yet this nation continues to tolerate his presence in its highest office.
What a horribly long way we have fallen since 1963, or 1968.
Bionic @ 11
You know, I saw part of that press conference and it struck me that his demeanor was rather like a petulant child completing a chore.
Being philanthropist isn’t as fun as blowing things up.
David Ehrenstein @ 8
And given probabtion for DUi while the more serious charges were dismissed.
“Let both sides unite to heed in all corners of the earth the command of Isaiah–to “undo the heavy burdens . . . (and) let the oppressed go free.”
_____________
Not much of this referenced in Will’s vomit, eh ?
do-si-do @ 24
W at his best…
When elections started being about “are you personally better of that you were…” and NOT “is the country better off now … ” – THAT’S when we started down this slope.
No sacrifice required – citizenship is all about “gimme -gimme -gimme” the benefits, don’t touch my money, send someone else to die, just don’t ask me. I have a dinner at the club to go to.
Sorry . . . this crap is starting to really get to me.
And, yes, I do remember where I was when it was announced that JFK had been shot.
George W.’s speaking now on CSPAN1, I’d say there’s no comparison with JFK but there are huge ones to be made.
thank you for some extra inspiration, Christy!
Ed*ard Teller @ 19:
You mean the Big Dawg don’t you?
I would like to think that if JFK was here he would take Bush to the woodshed and not come out until his arm was sore.
There has been a significant degradation of public discourse in this country since the halcyon days of the 1950s and 1960s.
Dave E. @ 29
yes, I was at the dentist because my baby son had shut a gate and broken a tooth. I remember the darkened room as we watched TV for days.
David Ehrenstein @ 8
She sure looks scary in that picture…
Biodun at 33:
And that is exactly what Al Gore is talking about in his new book.
Biodun @ 33
“Is this gonna be on the test?” is the pre-cursor to “What’s in it for me?” when it comes to, first, educating and second, discussing.
Oh Christy, glad you put the Will Column up on the firing line. He is supposedly an “intellectual” wingnut but he ought to be embarassed if that is all he can bring to the table. The WaPo is paying him to write this fluff?!
OT, But… yesterday “AIDS, today “Green House Gases”
wtf?
OT–
Libby’s opprobrium:
Opprobrium is one of my favorite words.
May he rest in peace. I tell you all, younger folk: the day JFK died was the start of the long downhill path when the world turned to shit. I have my suspicions as to whence came the fatal blow, but they’re only suspicions.
snowbird42 @ 34
For me, 9th grade geometry class. Mrs. Monroe, the teacher, came in and made the announcement – in tears.
This speech and the broadcast from Apollo 8 on Xmas Eve in 1968, still give me chills to listen to them.
OT New Froomkin up. “50 more years in Iraq?”
Dave E. @ 29
_______________
Sister Mary Philomena broke the news to my third grade class.
An Irish Parish Parochial School, no less.
The New & Improved Golden Rule:
-“Do unto others before they do onto you”
George Will thinks if he puts on a bow-tie, like Ted Sorensen, people will think he’s an intellectual. And oh, BTW, so does that twerp Tucker Carlson. (Although Tucker has stopped wearing them.)
dakine01 @ 7
Just as Jesus said.
If you want to see the effect JFK had in inspiring others, watch the series on Apollo where they interview the controllers like Gene Krantz. When he died, the mission to the moon became personal to each of them.
I have known some of the engineers from that from my AF days. I think they would have worked for free to be part of that effort.
S.O.S. from MA @ 40
Ditto…I could feel it even with my parents, who were Republicans, who were crying. I was in 5th grade. Our teacher told us; she was crying. In fact, they all were crying – which freaked us out.
It just broke something.
S.O.S. from MA @ 40
Amen.
Biodun @ 31
No. I have a fairly low opinion of Bill Clinton. He may have been the most intelligent president since Thomas Jefferson, but he was and is fairly selfish compared to Jimmy Carter, for instance. I can’t imagine him convincingly giving a speech like the one Christy posted. I was speaking of Al Gore. His Cooper Union speech was one of the finest speeches in recent American events. Gore’s three books question the unnatural selfishness of Americans similarly to the ways Kennedy sometimes did. And he wrote them himself.
My feelings toward Bill Clinton are tempered by the fact, acknowledged by the UN, that over 500,000 Iraqis died prematurely during his administration due to the continued destruction of their public health infrastructure during the period 1992-2001. He did very, very little to solve the crisis in Palestine/Israel either.
Dave E. @ 29
Me too, home from school because I had a cold. Mom was watching a soap-opera on CBS, she’d just gone into her bedroom to check on my baby brother when the TV went to a “Special Bulletin” and Cronkite came on and told us JFK was gone…and I thought Walter was going to break into tears on camera.
Here’s a point to ponder. On JFK’s assassination grade schoolers in Texas, when his death was announced, were reported to have stood up in class and cheared. One can’t help but wonder who these children grew up to be.
Dover Bitch @ 12
My health will not allow me to read Will either. Very small doses of Broder, not too often. And a little Debbie Howell just to get the juices flowing. The WaPoO — when you need a little jolt of outrage to get you started in the morning!
Wordsmith @ 49
Broken hearts here, there and everywhere. sigh.
Dave E. @ 28
Interesting point…had never thought of it in those terms before.
As a kid, I remember seeing Will and thinking that he really seems to know what he’s talking about. I’m not 10 anymore, and can see what small, small man he is. It’s comical to watch him on a panel with a strong, smart woman like Katrina Vanden Heuvel, who just calls him on his nonsense very clearly and concisely. You can almost hear his brain short-circuiting through his lapel mic. He resorts to heavy sighs and eye-rolling like a pouty 8 year old.
Thanks for the discussions today about what “conservatism” really means. I think right now is a crucial time for Liberals to understand these distinctions, since the Repub Party has abandoned many of our nation’s conservatives and we could gain a lot of support from those people that feel politically lost. Georgie seems to feel the same way, and I guess that’s why Will decided to write that drivel.
Biodun @ 40
me had to look this one up;
Good morning. I like the JFK speech. I am a Texas student and if I was alive back then I would have cried and not cheered.
I don’t think I would even cheer if Cheney got killed. Maybe smile, but not cheer.
Bluetoe @ 53
I betcha one of them grew up to be my English teacher from last year.
It would be interesting if someone put JFK and Shrubs speechifying side by side just to see how this country has bounced off of the bottom of the barrel.
Bluetoe @ 52
Probably the same ones who knew they wouldn’t be going to Viet Nam because they had enough money to stay in college (or enough family contacts to get the needed exemptions or deferments).
biff diggerence @ 44
I was in 3rd grade too and the Sister of Mercy who was the Principal came to our room and told us the the President had been shot and they were sending us home.
According to a new biography of RFK, the author claims with evidence that Bobby Kennedy felt that the death of his brother was the result of a conspiracy at the highest level of government including the CIA, FBI, military. Publicly RFK supported the Warren Commission but privately believed that Lee Harvey Oswald was not a lone gunmen. He hoped that at some point in time he would have sufficient power to get to the bottom of the conspiracy and hold those responsible accountable.
((((((((((SNARKASSANDRA!))))))))))
They favor it so long as they have no skin in the game. Anyone who still supports this war should put up or STFU. What kind of person calls for another individual to fight and die while they sit in an airconditioned office cheering the death and destruction?
newspaperbrat @ 64
Howdy and ((((hugs back))))
Wordsmith @ 49
I was sixth grade and the principal came to the door and told us. That night I saw my father cry for the first time at the shots of the casket being taken from the plane in DC…
Bustednuckles @ 60
doesn’t Letterman do that regularly?
Bustednuckles @ 60
Does bounced off mean bounced back up to where it will get better again?
Bluetoe @ 62
A couple of months ago someone posted a link to a (long) video of an investigation into JFK’s death. Really well done and very convincing. Can’t find it now.
Bluetoe @ 53
they would be in their early to mid-fifties. hmmmm.
tbsa @ 64
Freedom for the market.
I was in the university cafeteria, eating yogurt and granola when the announcement came over the PA system. What a long strange trip it’s been.
I don’t buy the John Jr. plane crash story either.
Bustednuckles @ 60
lets!
Mutant Poodle @ 9
Hey, MP. Taking a brief break from a truckload of work to read FDL & say “Bon Voyage” to you re: Alaska trip. Looking forward to those pix you’re going to post here :)
I was 3 when JFK died & have no memory of that terrible day, but my older brother has told me many times how he was yanked out of eighth grade by our Mom, who alternately swore & sobbed as she drove him home…
Bustednuckles @ 60
It would be even more interesting to compare the country’s morale and its moral standing in the world during the presidency of JFK and Bush.
Bustednuckles @ 60
_______________
There is a BW videotape out there somewhere of Helen Thomas berating JFK live in the Press Room on what his Administration was going to do about issues affecting women.
His response was something like:
Whatever we’re doing for women, Helen, I’m sure it’s not enough.
The whole damn Press Corps roared.
SnarKassandra @ 68
ah. hope springs eternal in youth. thanks.
tbsa @ 64
Those for whom the concept of service to country has been lost. Like I said, Reagan was the first politician to put it in those exact words, but elections have become about “ARE YOU BETTER OFF NOW?”
JFK, Ted Williams, Clark Gable, Jimmy Stewart, Pat Tillman. Gave up careers to serve in actual combat. My hat’s off to them. Too many of us have forgotten what it’s like for men of prominenece to pull strings to get into a war, NOT out of it.
TiredFed @ 69
Chimpy would have been in high school. Was he in TX at that time?
JFK: “Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.”
GWB WPE: It’s just a damn piece of paper!
OT – Paul Wolfowitz: ‘I’m Not An Architect Of Anything’
I can still see my mom that day. Red hair whipped up in a beehive with white wing-tip sunglasses crying her eyes out with the neighbors when we got off the school bus.
What a crock.
Republicans are quite fond of welfare that benefits themselves. (no bid contracts & so on, the list is long)
They love no rules & regulations until they get hurt as a result. Biggest whiners ever.
If it’s best that health coverage be profitable for pharmas & ins companies, why aren’t they clamoring for the same free enterprise system to run our fire & police depts?
Elliott @ 30
Did Tweety ever ask GW why no more bow-ties?
Dave E. @ 80
Well, Bruce Willis did offer to serve …
Dave E. @ 48
My Dad was stationed at Langley AFB during the time the first seven astronauts were training there. My Mom took me to a parade for them held on the base — all seven were in the back of a convertible, 4 on the seat, 3 on the trunk.
I looked at them and said, “Those aren’t astronauts — Where are their spacesuits?” (Summer in Tidewater Virginia, those poor guys would have roasted if they’d worn them!)
New thread…
I commented several months ago on a thread here at FDL that JFK’s assasination the beginning of the end. I hate what has become of my beloved country since then.
JFK: “We dare not forget today that we are the heirs of that first revolution. Let the word go forth from this time and place, to friend and foe alike, that the torch has been passed to a new generation of Americans–born in this century, tempered by war, disciplined by a hard and bitter peace, proud of our ancient heritage–and unwilling to witness or permit the slow undoing of those human rights to which this nation has always been committed, and to which we are committed today at home and around the world.”
GWB WPE: All we want is your oil. But we might have to hang around for a few decades. Hope ya don’t mind us trampling on your holy sites.
I really, really, REALLY like Al Gore, but as for his jumping in as a candidate, I saw him on Olberman twice this week, and he hasn’t LEARNED that he can’t be so pedantic!! I mean, I love the guy, but even I couldn’t listen to him!!! He needs to go to Sound Bite School, and be tutored that he doesn’t have to get in every single fact he knows in response to a particular question.
Among the remaining candidates, I think Edwards comes the closest to reminding us that we’re all in this together.
And I was a sophomore in college when Kennedy was killed. I think it was not only his death, but also those of Martin Luther King & Bobby Kennedy that really wrung the hope out of us.
TiredFed @ 82
_______________
Just to note that the “pay any price” boast was pre-Vietnam (or, present day Iraq).
“Pay any price” has gone the way of the fins on the ‘59 Dodge.
TiredFed @ 90
TF – brilliant contrast!
Uh. Mr. Will?
Case dismissed.
Brisingamen @ 87
Engineers in NASA made about $3500/year then. People don’t remember that the men that made Apollo happen were mostly in their 20’s. They were inventing the science as they went. And I still believe that they would have worked for almost nothing to be part of that adventure.
I was at Patrick AFB in 1969 as an Airman. Walked down to the beach to watch Apollo 11 launch. Was body-surfing in the Atlantic and watched Apollo 12 go up.
Think about this.
Forget the leadership of JFK; I’d run, (not walk) run back to Nixon vs. this brand of moral degenerates and criminals.
At least Tricky Dick was interested in running the country sometimes.
kdh22 @ 93
No no no. THIS is the GWB:
“We don’t give a flying FFFF how you feel about us trampling around nothin.”
STTP in Ohio @ 97
______________________
Not to mention a 3 digit IQ.
ccmask @ 73
Actually, I do — but I’ve flown small planes. He did one of the things they tell student pilots not to do — fly at night over water.
You lose the horizon, and can’t determine which way is up. At night over land, you can see city lights even through the cloud layer. But there are not enough lights on the ocean to establish what is water and what is sky.
A cock-sure young pilot, marginal weather and a bum leg (bad if you really need to hid the rudder hard). An accident just waiting to happen. Shame, he was a nice kid.
I always list JFK as my number one hero growing up (kinda unavoidable, given who he was and being Irish Catholic and from Boston). Have y’all seen film of his press conferences? Not only was he not afraid of the press, he respected the institution. And man could he give a speech.
TiredFed @ 100
Are those on youtube?
Biff and others,
Please do not use long uninterrupted dashes.
Good length:
——————-
Not good length:
—————————————————–
Thank you!
Mauimom @ 90
No offense, but that’s exactly what he doesn’t need. It’s when he’s over-coached that he is sometimes hard to listen to (and wooden). If he runs again, I hope they’ll just leave him alone.
TiredFed @ 101
Completely agree. Those clips reveal an incredible command of the issues.
And, Christy, thanks for the trip down memory lane with this speech.
It makes the current state of public discourse seem so trivial and superfiicial by comparison.
Brisingamen @ 100
I know a lot of small plane pilots. Almost all of them subscribe to the pilot error scenario in JFK, Jr’s crash.
The Lurking Mod @ 102
Lurking mod – thanks!
I thought that was an aquatic urban myth.
I hear and obey.
Brisingamen @ 98
I’ve always thought that he took after his mother more than his father. His sister Caroline is the spit of JFK.
Ed*ard Teller @ 51:
I agree with you on all the points except for this one: IMO, Bill Clinton did a lot to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. He came really close in 2000 with Ehud Barak and Arafat, but the latter rejected the best deal Palestinians are ever going to get. Barak was even willing to give the Palestinians half of Jerusalem. Ain’t any chance of that happening now.
What is wrong with long sets of dashes?
SnarKassandra @ 109
Maybe they stick together and make the line too long? Just a guess.
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ent-729481
Endless apologies.
Wilco.
Biodun @ 110
Actually Barak never agreed to sign the deal either. Of course the MSM and the Israeli lobby pinned all of the responsibility for the failure of this potential agreement on Arafat….and it has stuck. Anyone surprised? Carter has talked about this extensively.
SnarKassandra @ 58
Cassie’s here in the AM!
OT: 275 diplomas withheld from graduating high school students in Dripping Springs, Texas for blowing bubbles and throwing beach balls. Check it out:
http://www.590klbj.com/News/Story.aspx?ID=68887
SnarKassandra @ 111
I forget what they call it but it has to do with a certain type of troll behavior.
SnarKassandra @ 111
Although unexplained, I imagine it wreaks havoc on margins when comments are nested a few times…
Mutant Poodle @ 114
School ended. Cassie is hanging out for a bit before the pool opens.
LS @ 115
Oh good grief! Teachers and principals can be so STUPID sometimes. Like they forgot what it was like to me a teenager.
Biodun @ 110
From what I knew then, it didn’t appear to be a good deal. Half of Jerusalem? Link, please! The Palestinians were offered 92 percent of the West Bank minus the IDF Military zones, minus 95 percent of the water resources, minus ALL the best farmland, minus “changes to be determined at a later date,” minus freedom of travel from one Bantustan to the next, minus any sense of dignity.
From what I know now, the deal would have ended up even worse than that.
I’ll never understand George Will. He occasionally doesn’t sound like a complete idiot; but those occasions are becoming fewer and farther between. This latest article is bare doggerel, unworthy of even the meanest right wing hack, but it must be poetry to the ears of the right wing base. Or else I cannot perceive his intentions. No real intellect could actually believe this tripe or consider that a logical argument had been made in any way. I sent him this email:
SnarKassandra @ 58
The students who cheered were in the Dallas Public School system. Their teacher told her pastor about it, and when it made the news she was threatened and shunned. (See William Manchester, _Death of A President_)
Hello George wWill how can a person do something for their country when they are making minimum wage, have no health insurance, and can barely pay their bills? Just where does a person find time to pull oneself up by the boot straps when you can not afford to buy and boots? When CEO’s and Multi nationals have gone wild making 300 times what the average worker makes, they have essentially left the American worker in debt up to their necks. and left American workers in the dust
I want the Democrats or Independents to take the word “conservative” back. I want to see one of the party’s conserve the life of our troops, conserve other people on the planets lives> I wanted the Republicans to conserve the surplus after the Clinton Administration and conserve social security.
How in the hell can anyone call anything that the Bush administration has done “conservative”. RADICAL IS MORE LIKE IT!
…and now, as I am 24 hours from Alaska, another preview…
122 John Swiftly. Great letter.
Mutant Poodle @ 124
Pretty!! Can I come?
kathleen @ 124
Radically selfish, that is for sure!
SnarKassandra @ 119
Well, happy swimming. Good to see you in the daylight hours. Was beginning to suspect vampire-like tendencies.
SnarKassandra @ 127
If Ted Stevens will let you…
It seems that there is a whole host of pundits and correspondents who have come to the end of their careers and are passing into a well documented senility before our eyes: George Will, David Broder, Ted Koppel, and Daniel Schorr, for example. They are, of course, not alone. There is a host of younger types: Fred Hiatt, Howard Fineman, Thomas Friedman, Mark Halperin, Chris Matthews, Wolf Blitzer, and so many, many others who seem to have gone straight to dementia without any intervening useful working life.
In any case, what strikes me about the George Will piece besides its self-conscious and stilted philosophical blather is its failure to mention in his exposition of conservatism its epitome George Bush. I’m sure this was just an oversight on George’s (the Will one’s) part.
For Bush with his tax cuts for the wealthy like George Will has done more than anyone to foster the “equality of outcomes” about which George Will is so sanguine. How I wish that George Will would go broke tomorrow so in a year or two he could once again tell us just how sanguine he is feeling.
But, of course, Will does end plumbing the depths of his dishonesty here. Oh no. He gives us a catechism on conservative foreign policy.
Apparently the last 6 years have been all a blur for George (the Will one). He seems not to have noticed that a conservative President George Bush has been President all this time. Or is this just another pathetic effort to dissociate “conservatism” from its most recent failed avatar? “Hubris about controlling what cannot, and should not, be controlled” is there any better description of George Bush and conservatism in general?
Intellectual cowards like George Will with their self satisfied, light weight pseudo-intellectual claptrap can wrap their hypocrisy up anyway they want but it is hollow, empty, bankrupt. It can only be maintained by ignoring the facts and reality, and ends in the senile driveling of the George Will’s of this world.
Mutant Poodle @ 128
I am usually in school during the day. And I have 2 blogs and chores and friends and sports. But now it is summer.
Ed*ard Teller @ 121
The MSM/Israeli lobby went spin spin spin with this one,and then blamed Arafat for the failing.
SnarKassandra @ 132
Details, details.
Enjoy the summer.
I liked Kennedy until I heard about his deceptions of the American people regarding Vietnam… still, Marilyn Monroe was quite a coup…
707
spurious @ 104
The rumour was that his “handlers” advised him not to focus on the enviroment. Were his handlers double agents?
STTP in Ohio @ 97
Have you seen the bumper sticker “I miss Nixon”
kathleen @ 135
Or maybe just idiots.
Hugh @ 131
Ugh, yeah, that’s what I really meant to say!
Marvelously stated!
Damn, now I’ve got to write another letter to Will and get “pseudo-intellectual” and “bankrupt” in there. I think I’ll throw in, “crypto-fascist Nazi,” while I’m at it. Self proclaimed conservatives love that one.
So, as an esoteric side bar, to whom do we owe thanks that the modern day pundit feels absolutely no responsibility for fact, logic or reason of any sort?
Even the prototypical crypto-fascist Nazi (Mr. William F. Buckley Jr.), made what I would call an honest intellectual attempt at logic. I would not agree with most of his base premise, but he at least attempted to construct syllogism which followed from his stated facts. When did it become ok to just make shit up?
Is it all Fox New’s fault?
Haven’t been able to hang out as much lately (this making a living thing gets in the way), but have you all touched on Bill-o’s white Christian Male power structure crack from yesterday yet?
As someone in the comments at Think Progress said, “Off come the gloves, on go the hoods!”
kathleen, ET, biodun,
Clinton’s grand peace initiative took place in 2000, in the 8th and last year of his Presidency. This should tell you a lot about its motivations and failure. Clinton was into his legacy and the idea that he could finesse a Middle East peace deal in his last days was fanciful even delusional thinking on his part, all the more so, since his Middle East negotiator was Dennis Ross with all of his ties to A*PAC. Imagine for a moment how the Israelis would have reacted if our negotiator had been Edward Said.
It should also be remembered that at the same time Barack was making peace offers he was expanding settlements in the West Bank, hardly a measure to inspire confidence in the process.
kathleen @ 138
No, but that sums it up nicely! (And in only 3 words.)
Got Ours, Pissoff
Via @ 142
Nice.
Hugh@131
“Intellectual cowards like George Will with their self satisfied, light weight pseudo-intellectual claptrap“
Well put, indeed!
Hugh, kathleen, ET:
I appreciate all your comments. I was really into MSM (as it’s now known) in those days. I had just started working, as it were, with alternative and progressive media in 2000. So thanks for straightening me out. (No kidding.)
*Sigh*…George Will’s latest attempt to define something he isn’t and claim that his style of conservatism is anything more than an expression of extreme self-interest.
Which reminds me of an old joke, worth revising and retelling…
A boy selling puppies out of a little red wagon camps out in front of the White House…George Bush, delighted at the boy’s entrepreneurship, strolls out to speak with him.
“Say, what kind of puppies are those?” says Bush.
“Republican puppies, sir,” says the boy. George Bush, delighted with the boy’s response, hands him a ten-dollar bill.
A week later, the same boy with the same puppies camps out in front of the White House again. Sensing a possible photo opportunity, George Bush approaches the boy again.
“What kind of puppies were those again?” asks Bush.
“Democratic puppies, sir,” says the boy.
Bush says, “What? Last week you said they were Republican puppies.”
“Yes sir,” replies the boy, “but they’ve opened their eyes since then.”
SnarKassandra @ 120
Right. Have a great day at the pool. That sounds like fun!
grape_crush @ 148
Ain’t that the truth!
Let’s see, Pres. McFlightsuit’s at 28%, Darth’s at a resounding 13%, togedda both yer at 41%.
41%. You really couldn’t make this stuff up!
Biodun @ 147
{{{{Biodun}}}}
johnSwifty @ 140
Nah, Will has been doing this for decades. I used to read him just for the amusement of picking out the obvious logical flaw that undermined his entire argument (there’s at least one in every column!) After a while it just became too easy.
In the immortal words of Charles Pierce, “Oh, Lord, did you have to make the fish so big and the barrel so small?” *g*
Right on, Hugh. It seems Will has forgotten that little maxim of the Bush administration. Perhaps his argument would be more persuasive (doubt it) if he would acknowledge that little fact in his theory.
Will paints liberals as a dirty word once again. The last time I checked, we live in a liberal democracy, one that this administration is attempting to impose on other countries. But what really is left out of his column is that BECAUSE there are groups of people, conservatives is what he labels them, that are out to get what they can get, and with the ends justifying the means, that we have transparency, regulation and government to provide these protections. I love how Will and the others continously cite the Founding Fathers for their principles, as a group, where a little more than 10 minutes of reading the Federalist Papers would show the stark contrasts between Madison and Hamilton ( and Jay for that matter), that the Founding Fathers he refers to as his authority to grant conservatism as glory and gold included one, Thomas Jefferson, probably the most influential, smartest and most revered of all, specifically constructing a wall between church and state to preclude any sort of continous, running majority getting “theirs while they can, and completely sanguine as to the different outcomes.” The Founding Fathers relied on Locke, Voltaire, among others, philosophers that articulated theories that governments are necessary, sometimes necessary evils, but necessary nonetheless to avoid any sort of power to be held by one particular group. They believed in a Hobbesian point of view, and constructed the Constitution, Bill of Rights and other documents to reflect the fear of certain groups getting what they deserve and the consequences be damned.
Will paints liberals as socialists in this column. Liberals are those, in my book, who value transparency in government, nominal regulation of those with power and money due to their natural, Hobbesian instincts, strong middle class society and cultural mores (yes, that means upper class people are alright–it takes upper class people to define middle class people, anyway) and the enumerated freedoms found in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. I know that George is a big baseball fan, but I guarantee that he was one of those dorks that I would pick last for my baseball team. And you know what, maybe that makes me a “conservative” in his eyes, because when I did pick guys like him last and plop them in righfield to pick daisys while me and others went to winning the game, I guess I was “sanguine to the outcome” of that decision, too.
Inspiring, thanks Christy = D
dakine01 @ 67
Mr. Peabody @ 68
Yes, his “Great Moments in Presidential Speeches” runs nightly and contrasts FDR and JFK with numbnuts. It would be hilarious if it weren’t so sad … but that’s the point. Strangely enough Scarborough ofter reruns it on his show too ??
I find it funny when little Georgie tries to do Philosophy; like watching a chicken try to ride a bicycle. Taking one of his main assumptions about the self-interested nature of Mankind and combining it with the obvious assumption that people have the ability to reason (leaving aside the counter example of Bush), then you can use the position articulated by Rawls in his work “Theory of Justice”.
Rawls said that using the minimal assumptions of human self-interest and the ability you would end up with a society that protected the rights of the least advantaged. It goes like this:
1. A society will likely (because of human self-interest) have different social strata with some people at the top and others at the bottom (what George Will would say).
2. You know you will end up in the society at some social level, but you don’t know which one (the Original Position according to Rawls).
3. Because you are self-interested you want to ensure that the society is structured so that no matter where you end up you will do ok.
4. To ensure that you will do ok you would prefer a society that provides for public health, public assistance, distribution of wealth, etc.
The short argument is that Justice (with a capital J) rationally defined by using individual self-interest as the only assumption, would result in just the kind of society that George Will would not want.
What philosophical argument can George Will offer for a “capitalistic” society?
The kind of conservatives I grew up around were big on honesty. Honest relationships were the result — which included a fair shake.
The liberalism I grew up around was pretty indistinguishable from it, really. When the liberals and conservatives in my town got together to decide how to meet the community’s needs, bipartisanship was generally assumed.
People could talk across the aise because they got it that they were all in the same building, so to speak.
If what’s going on in the current administration is conservatism, we’d know what went on in Cheney’s secret oil meeting.
We’d know who committed the felony of outing Valerie Plame and we would have a firing, a trial, and a conviction.
We’d be looking for Bin Laden instead of looting Iraq on transparently false premises and building permanent bases there.
We’d know what “caging” votes means and we’d be prosecuting the criminals who’ve made our electoral process so slimy.
And we’d be taking care of our school system, overhauling health care and cleaning up our carbon act because conservatism means to *conserve.*
What I got out of GFW’s column was that conservatism means the gated are the chosen people.
Galbraith was right: “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”
Christy, other commenters may have already pointed this out, but you’re the subject of the latest screed by
Dr. Sanity. It turns out that calling Will a selfish windbag who really doesn’t give a damn as long as he and his conservative friends get theirs is projecting, according to the good doctor (who uses her shrink credentials to vilify anything vaguely liberal).
I’d be flattered to be the subject of such a long rant, but the doc does them all the time. The woman doesn’t know the meaning of moderation, and her site has turned into quite the hate-talk destination. I pity her patients.