You've come a long way, baby — a long way down the road back toward the 1950s, all over again, it seems. When former Justice Sandra Day O'Connor graduated near the top of her law school class at Stanford, she was offered jobs at law firms as a legal secretary. At least Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who similarly graduated at the top of her Columbia class, was able to secure a position as a lawyer — but only after being turned down by Justice Frankfurter who had no interest in hiring a woman. That's some progress.
Justice Ginsburg went on to found the Women's Rights Project for the ACLU, which has done groundbreaking work on women's issues for years ever since. She is a pioneer in opening the doors that a whole lot of us now take for granted as having been there all the time — she not only opened those doors, in some cases, she helped to build them from the ground up.
Which makes yesterday's Supreme Court decision on women's pay equity all the more profoundly appalling in so many ways. In a spare 5-4 majority, led by Justice Samuel Alito (thanks again to all the fabu Senators who voted for cloture — heckuva job!), ruled that women have a limited window of opportunity to bring a case of pay discrimination — even if they have only recently discovered the differential in pay and that it was attributable to gender.
In an opinion by Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr., the majority rejected the view of the federal agency, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, that each paycheck that reflects the initial discrimination is itself a discriminatory act that resets the clock on the 180-day period, under a rule known as “paycheck accrual.”
“Current effects alone cannot breathe life into prior, uncharged discrimination,” Justice Alito said in an opinion joined by Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. and Justices Antonin Scalia, Anthony M. Kennedy and Clarence Thomas. Justice Thomas once headed the employment commission, the chief enforcer of workers’ rights under the statute at issue in this case, usually referred to simply as Title VII.
Under its longstanding interpretation of the statute, the commission actively supported the plaintiff, Lilly M. Ledbetter, in the lower courts. But after the Supreme Court agreed to hear the case last June, the Bush administration disavowed the agency’s position and filed a brief on the side of the employer.
What this means is this: the Supreme Court has overturned longstanding precedent in the way that it has handled these cases, there is no tolling of the time period any longer as each paycheck is handed out until someone finds out they've been shafted. Because, you know, employers often tell employees flat out that they are breaking the law and why — that's easy as pie to find out in most large corporations. Not. And, as an added bonus, the Bush Administration has reversed the government's longstanding practice of empowering employees who may have been wronged and, instead, filed a brief on behalf of the corporate interests.
Justice Ginsburg, in a stinging rebuke from the bench, read aloud her dissent (I cannot emphasize enough how rare this is.). I wanted to share a bit of her words with everyone:
In our view, the court does not comprehend, or is indifferent to, the insidious way in which women can be victims of pay discrimination.
Title VII was meant to govern real-world employment practices, and that world is what the court today ignores.
There is a reason that legislation on gender pay equity is needed — and needs to be taken seriously. The woman involved in the case that the Supreme Court decided was a supervisor — the only female supervisor — at a Goodyear plant, where she had worked for 20 years. She learned about the pay disparity issue late in her career — but that did not matter to the majority in this decision. As Justice Ginsburg further explained:
In a vigorous dissenting opinion that she read from the bench, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said the majority opinion “overlooks common characteristics of pay discrimination.” She said that given the secrecy in most workplaces about salaries, many employees would have no idea within 180 days that they had received a lower raise than others.An initial disparity, even if known to the employee, might be small, Justice Ginsburg said, leading an employee, particularly a woman or a member of a minority group “trying to succeed in a nontraditional environment” to avoid “making waves.” Justice Ginsburg noted that even a small differential “will expand exponentially over an employee’s working life if raises are set as a percentage of prior pay.”
By the time the litigant in this particular suit learned of the gender inequity in her paycheck compared to her male counterparts, she was making 40 percent less than they were a year. Now, who wants to tell me that gender equity in salaries and benefits is a non-issue and not worth discussing? Anyone? The Supreme Court just threw the ball back into the legislative court — kudos to any legislators who pick it up and run with it.
SCOTUSblog has much more on this, including analysis on the broad impact that this decision is likely to have on all types of discrimination suits: Title VII covers "race, color, religion, sex or national origin." This one is huge.
(Huge thank you to scarecrow who sent me some notes on this case from last night's NewsHour report, which I missed due to getting The Peanut ready for bed. It was incredibly helpful in deciphering some of the info and spin on this.)



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Yay, Justice Ginsburg! And a big fat raspberry to Alito.
5-4 again. We don’t need to ask who the five were…we can just call them “the usual suspects.”
Justice Kennedy is no Sandra Day O’Connor, let me tell you. And Alito? Well, I wasn’t expecting anything less from him.
Question: Can Supreme Court Justices be impeached?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 3
Or anything more. Alito is who he is, and he is a bastard.
Brisingamen @ 4
Yes, but I’m not counting on it happening.
What’s the term? Stare Decsis? NOT.
Notice that Kennedy here was the swing vote.
I wonder why he voted with the conservatives on this issue?
Bob in HI
EvilDrPuma @ 6
Yeah, I grew up in the era of all the wing-nuts hollering “Impeach Earl Warren!” for all those dastardly civil-rights and anti- segregation rulings.
EvilDrPuma @ 6
A better question may be whether this Supreme Court would allow shrub or any of his minions to be impeached… or, for that matter, whether they plan to allow the invalidation of yet another presidential election.
This was an atrocious decision, as is the EEOC’s 180-day rule.
Many companies forbid the sharing of pay information on pain of termination. What if they are not able to share that information until a group of employees are laid off, terminated, released many months or years later? How is discrimination against women as a group last year less less of a damage to women than it is in the next 180 days?
The next Justice should be a woman; the SCOTUS must look more like the United States if there will be real justice.
I think that the answer is changing EEOC’s rules in the short-term. The EEOC is supposed to protect employees, not employers, and its rules should do just that. But as long as Bush is in office, there will likely be cronies appointed to the EEOC who will obstruct and deny any protections for employees.
Ugh.
Are conservatives put on earth solely as impediment?
Eve didn’t eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge. She voted for cloture.
I heard this on the Today Show this morning. I can’t believe this SCOTUS. Praise the Lord for Ginsburg. And let’s pray for her longevity and good health. We also need another progressive woman on the bench. After BushCo that is, ‘coz we know he ain’t gonna do it.
tommy yum @ 12
The snake was a Republican, of course. “Keeping women in their place,” right from the start.
It amazes me how much these guys (and I do mean guys) can twist logic into a pretzel and then claim that they are just following the statutes.
Be interesting to see what Congress does, and if Bush threatens a veto…
I hold NARAL largely responsible for this. Had they been willing to go out and really fight the Alito nomination (not to mention the Holy Joe support), we may have had a fillibuster in the Senate. This was one nomination which was really worth a fight.
Speaking of which, last week I got a hugely expensive fundraising mailer (disguised as always as a petition for abortion rights) from NARAL. I wrote a scathing letter and sent it back in the envelope they provided.
I wonder if women would buy goodyear tires if they knew the facts of this case? I wonder if Goodyear would feel as good about this victory – and the cost of settling it if it cost them dearly in sales and reputation?
Shouldn’t companies feel shameful and regret when this type of evidence is presented? Shouldn’t they be worried about widespread dissemination and publication of this information?
Why isn’t Goodyear ashamed about under paying this woman?
Christy writes:
Although it is becoming a tad less rare as this is the second time she’s done this in less than six weeks.
I dunno, but I’m thinking Mr Justices Roberts, Alito, Kennedy, Scalia, and Thomas are going to wish they hadn’t p*ss’d this fine jurist off.
Bob Schacht @ 8
Because he is an Old. Out-of-touch. White. Conservative. Man.
Rayne at 11 — Exactly, and a lot of corporations and firms run on a blind compensation system for executives and employees, so discovery might hinge on something as simple as someone blabbing at the office Christmas party after too much spiked punch. And you can SO depend on that happening within 180 days of your employment and all…jeebus.
After 01/20/09, perhaps the Congress will take pity on the SCOTUS and provide help with the work load; by adding two more justices. 6/5 rulings sound good to me.
I’m really glad you tackled this.
It does really seem as if a legislative fix is badly needed.
This would be a great, easy thing for Senator Clinton to champion, I would think, though it should be a no brainer for anyone on the side of the angels.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 20
Nobody in their right mind discusses their salary with co-workers.
Also: Shouldn’t Alito’s wife be crying about this decision? Instead of her shameful performance during the confirmation hearing?
EvilDrPuma @ 14
it’s name was Karl.
dakine01 @ 7
Sorry. Should have used der Google before posting:
Stare Decisis
Justice Ginsberg rocks!
She gave the commencement address at George Mason Law School when my husband graduated from there in ‘93. (She was still on the DC Court of Appeals then.) I remember being SO impressed by her comments about being a lawyer and a mother….and by her lovely aura of gentle wisdom.
How she must hate the things that the Court and the country have come to these days.
This is good for Republicans. Female Republicans, that is.
my god we’ve been relegated to ‘barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen’.
Pachacutec @ 22
yeah, let’s give her something EASY to do so she won’t f**k it up. :)
kdh at 29 — Well, I currently have the barefoot and kitchen parts covered… *g* (I know, it isn’t funny, but I’m just too pissed not to crack wise today.)
One of my favorite things about living inthe 2nd circuit, is that Justice Ginsburg is our Ciruit justice.
I don’t know how many of you know this, but each of the 9 Circuits has a Supreme court judge assigned to it and when SCOTUS is not in session emergency petitions ans motions tothe Supreme Court are brought directly to the Justice assigned to that circuit.
Jusrice Ginsburg is our Justice and she is famously generous with her time and her attetnion and remains an active part of the legalcommunity in the Second Circuit. She speaks at events and comes to confernces. She has always been an inspiration.
One of the most important legacies of the LCinton Administration was appointing this wonderful woman.
this is an outrage.
Mutant Poodle @ 15
Congress doesn’t have anything to do with this. Separation of powers.
kdh22 @ 29
Not quite yet. They probably won’t get around to the right to hold property or to vote until next year.
Hell, the Federal agencies are just as guilty of this as private industry.
Case in point: Federal agency hires 3 new employees. The 2 ladies are hired at a lower step-in-grade that the man, for the same position.
The man turns out to be an alcoholic, who pisses away every attempt to help him retain his position. Fortunately, he was still “career-conditional” so it was possible to fire him.
The ladies have been promoted, but I still think they should have been hired at the same grade/step as the guy. (Not that my opinion counts.)
dakine01 @ 18
Although it is becoming a tad less rare as this is the second time she’s done this in less than six weeks.
I dunno, but I’m thinking Mr Justices Roberts, Alito, Kennedy, Scalia, and Thomas are going to wish they hadn’t p*ss’d this fine jurist off.
If she is resorting to this, it says to me, that things in tha halls of SCOTUS may seem eerily similar to life in the hallwasy of a politicized DOJ.
Can you imagine the stress she must be under?
Woodhall Hollow @ 19
And. Unfortunately. In. Control.
Sounds to me like this is an appropriate question for Sen. Dodd this afternoon
Alito, Scalia, and Roberts are law and order guys – so – CHANGE THE LAW!!!
As for Clarence Thomas, what I really wish for, short of impeachment, is the imposition of an IQ test.
Biodun @ 34
Congress can pass legislation fixing the insane 180 day rule. And it should begin to move on this, immediately. I am thinking of all those unmarried women who tend to vote Dem, when they vote. Perhaps if the Dem congress really stood up for their interests and rights, they would feel that they have more at stake.
Hilary? This is a golden opportunity–don’t let it go….
Christy Hardin Smith @ 31
actually I kind of like being barefoot in the kitchen. Pregnant, not so much……but my breeding days are over, anyhoo.
Biodun @ 34
Biodun,
See this from Christy’s post:
Seems to me that this means the Congress CAN come in and fix this mess by legislation.
OK, the question is what to do now. Goodyear owes it to Ledbetter. My next set of tires will NOT be Goodyear tires, nor will my next car be one that comes with them.
The 180 days thing, or within the last six months goes back to language adopted by the National Labor Relations Act in 1935, just FYI…
http://www.nlrb.gov/publicatio…..guide.aspx
jayt @ 39
You mean this Clarence Thomas?
looseheadprop @ 32
I agree. I am too lazy to do the research but IIRC she was opposed by pro-choice groups. NARAL perhaps? At the time, I was amazed at the stupidity.
Odds of getting civil rights out of these 5?
S-T-A-R-K
OT but Greenwald has a good Plame-lies post up at Salon.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 31
*g* — to quote seinfeld, ‘not that there’s anything wrong with that’ (if it’s your choice, that is). ‘pissed’ just isn’t strong enough 4 me tho. i don’t think there is a word that describes my intense feelings at this point wrt teh sh*t we’re having to endure in our country. i am disappointed in myself for being so naive to think that the US would forever be immune to this r*ping of its citizens by these f**kers. o.k. i’m done ranting now.
Blub @ 35
what a comfort! *g*
Coz at 44– Yes, it does. But traditionally, that 180 thing was tolled each and every time the employee received a paycheck because of the difficulty in proving these cases in a closed corporate environment with a history and culture of internal discrimination. That has been the precedent by which these cases have been guided for years – and now? Well, Title VII just got an enormous overhaul in one fell swoop. So this doesn’t merely apply to gender equity — it’s also racial discrimination, religious intolerance, nationality discrimination — anything that Title VII covers is now up for reconsideration. And corporations, who have very deep pockets to litigate just this sort of thing in the face of employees who, for the most part, do not. And, with this ruling, they have also undercut the viability of those cases,which means that lawyers who were taking them on contingent fees for back pay and the like will be less likely to take them now with a lessened potential for success.
And so it goes…
So who’s going to sponsor some new legislation on this?
allan_in_upstate @ 45
Ayup – that’d be the one. The one that hasn’t been on the right side of any S.Ct decision that I can think of.
He’s a lot like Bush – ask him a question, and know that the correct answer is 180 degrees the other way.
Or Cheney, of whom you ask a question, and know that the truth is precisely the opposite.
I’ve written Alito’s statement down
“Current events cannot alone breathe life into prior, unchanged descrimination.”
and put it beside my computer. I’m going to be looking at everything through the eyes of this statement to find more evidence of it’s blind, unfeeling stupidity. I’ll report back what I find.
Here is a bit more from the NYTimes on how this reorders the legal landscape on discrimination suits across the board.
Just went to Goodyear’s website and sent them an email about this. My final line was:
I don’t do business with businesses that discriminate.
Are conservatives put on earth solely as impediment?
No, but they believe they are, which is worse.
jayt @ 53
anyone remember the confirmation hearings? what a circus that was.
Something about a pubic hair on a Coke can sticks in my memory. Eeee-yeeew.
Would it be possible to get Justice Ginsburg to talk here at FDL?
I mean, one should reach high shouldn’t one?
dakine01 @ 42:
Thanks again–also re: Clinton/Gore in last thread. I skipped coffee this morning. (Not kidding.)
This will need congressional action to fix because it won’t change with this court. If we get the presidency in 2008, and hold in the Senate and the House, this can be changed and it should be something we start asking the candidates about. Perhaps Sen. Dodd this afternoon? hint, hint!
itwasntme @ 54
From my experience, trying to rationalize someone else’s obvious stupidity is a futile effort. My stupidity on the other hand…no so much. I await your findings, and good luck! *g*
This is yet another ruling from the Supreme Court that points to a mindset that women are chattel. And to think, it’s likely going to be at least another generation before things will improve. Thanks, Sandra Day O’Connor, for the hand you had in ruining the progress this country was making.
AZ Matt @ 61
Matt
wrt your entire comment…Now there’s some logic!
The Opus Dei gang!
one might wish that ol’fashioned anti-catholic sentiment were still strong enough to disqualify these faucking fascist pigs from office…
.
Clarence Thomas is truly a disgrace on SCOTUS. He was NOT qualified to be nominated, period. And it has NOTHING to do with race. Or maybe it does. Maybe Bush 41 was trying to make a point.
scarecrow @ 57
Conservative and conservatism is not the problem. What is broken is not the liberal – conservative dialectic. We have a new player, the the mafia crime family otherwise know as the Bush family.
OT-Here’s a speech given by Fred Thompson on why Scooter is innocent.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..49926.html
allan_in_upstate @ 45
“the last time Thomas asked a question in court was Feb. 22, 2006…”
But traditionally, that 180 thing was tolled each and every time the employee received a paycheck because of the difficulty in proving these cases in a closed corporate environment with a history and culture of internal discrimination. That has been the precedent by which these cases have been guided for years – and now? Well, Title VII just got an enormous overhaul in one fell swoop.
Surely you don’t mean to impy that Alito, Roberts, Scalia, and Thomas are – GASP
*Activist Judges*!?!
The Fervent 5 re-write law here – I would assume the intent was not to allow employeers to discriminate as long as there was limited chance for the person to know within 180 days. So if the person does not know of one year, then finds out there is no recourse?
Who knows maybe that is the way they wanted it. In any case this just shows what everyone on both sides with a brain that pondered this knows – they will do anything they want and rule for what they want – even having to make a pathetic argument does not deter them since there is no recourse (and I am sure based on history in general that the historical records of the SCOTUS is riddled with falshoods. Looks like we are going to try and keep it going.
ET at 69 — Do I even need to ask how the news on Stevens’ home and potential investigation has you feeling this morning? *g*
Brisingamen @ 56
Thanks for the idea. My final line was “Lies have consequences.”
wgg at 65 — You know, good old fashioned religious discrimination of any sort ought not be the criteria for anything. While this decision undercuts legal recourse on that, I’d appreciate everyone not fostering it in our threads. Thanks.
Gotta wonder — did Justice Ginsburg make Mrs Alito cry?
Shorter Scalito: all your wombs belong to us.
Woodhall Hollow @ 23
Actually, everybody should talk about their salary with co-workers in a constructive, non-confrontational fashion, for the very reason indicated by this issue — or they should be asking their employer why their pay system doesn’t have more transparency, like established and published pay ranges for set job descriptions.
TeddySanFran @ 75
TSF – good question! hehehe
And the “liberal media” ABC Morning News covered this in a little 30 second (if that long) blurb. Didn’t even bring up Ginsburg or the OTHER opinion. Because they were rushing off to do a big update on the WHALES.
Biodun @ 60
Not a problem. We all have those days. Although I can’t really imagine skipping coffee since I’ve been drinking it every day since I was about five years old…
The eminent domain decision is another that bothers me immensely. There was talk that a group was trying to come up with money to build a WalMart (or something) on the site of one of the Justice’s homes. Whatever came of that? I’d donate.
Since Thomas is Scalia’s toady and votes as Scalia instructs, we could save money by dumping Thomas and giving Scalia two votes.
Rayne @ 77
Yes, keeping your employees in the dark about how they are paid is really just a way to manipulate and control them. I like the idea of transparency, it lets the sun in and we all know that sunlight is a powerful disinfectant. Too many cockroaches living in that dark.
looseheadprop @ 32
Nuts, I should know this…who’s the Justice for the 9th?
edit: Nevermind, I found it. Kennedy.
dakine01 @ 18
Although it is becoming a tad less rare as this is the second time she’s done this in less than six weeks.
I dunno, but I’m thinking Mr Justices Roberts, Alito, Kennedy, Scalia, and Thomas are going to wish they hadn’t p*ss’d this fine jurist off.
I don’t think they care. They have moved the court, and there are two years left.
Roberts is going to be chief for about 35 years. He is smart, same as Alito only smart.
goodyearhateswomen @ 17
All good points. Apparently, the trial court found there had been substantial discrimination and the plaintiff was awarded a large amount for back pay. So there is no dispute about Goodyear’s culpability. The issue was whether the Commission’s rule about how much time you had to sue was consistent with the statute — and the court essentially reinterpreted the statute so that almost no one would ever file in time, because the information would be difficult to get before it was too late.
The court basically took a statute designed to protect employees from discrimination and turned it into a statute designed to protect employers from anti-discrimination suits — while claiming that was Congress’ intent. And since this statute applies to more than sex discrimination, and there is similar langauge in other statutes, and these statues apply to discrimination based on sexual orientation, race, national origin, etc, this holding could trigger reinterpretations across the board.
Don’t ever accept the BS about judges that are “strict constructionists.” This is a very “activist” Supreme Court, and they make no bones about what they are up to. They’re going to roll back as much of the progressive legislation of the last 40 years as they can, as quickly as the can, and nothing can stop them until we regain the majority.
In the meantime, Congress will have to fix each decision via revised legislation, and deal with the 60 vote problem in the Senate and finding enough votes for veto overrides.
Solai @ 81
oh man, that was a f****g OUTRAGE.
I heard that rumor too…believe it was about Souter’s house in New Hampshire.
Rayne @ 77
Well, I used to think so–and was at one time, open about such things. But I learned the hard way that talking about what you make with co-workers can lead to some very nasty (envy-based) office politics. Same goes for pissing off the boss by asking/demanding more transparency.
Now–I know that if I were ever in a position to make such a policy, I would be transparent. But when a job that you really need is on the line, risking being subtly sidelined for promotion (for example) is not such a good choice for many.
stare decisis Etymology – latin
def. – (stare) Take a good hard look at settled law and precedent.
(decisis) and decide to change it.
Pach brought up a great point the other day: we have, and have had, a three-party system. The most powerful, which operates behind the curtain, is the Plutocratic party. There are corporatists in both canonical parties who constantly undermine the country’s interest.
This latest SCOTUS ruling is obviously a sop to the corporations, who continue to be viewed in the eyes of the law as individuals.
Haven’t you heard? Greed is good and the sociopath is your best friend.
This is the first time I’ve seen this case discussed at Firedoglake, although it’s been before the courts for years. I’m surprised.
What ever happened to the discovery rule? Footnote 10 to the decision dismisses the issue because it was not properly argued in the Plaintiff’s brief. I don’t do Federal Appellant law, but is the USSC really so restricted in the doctrines it can consider in this situation?
It smells like bullsh*t to me
allan_in_upstate @ 45
Here’s my favorite from the link:
scarecrow @ 86
Exactly, Scarecrow. And, if and until the libs/progressives/Dems? become a stronger majority in the Congress, the neocons will have their way with the less-priviledged in the US.
One more item on the “Fix-It” list for January 20, 2009.
Slothrop at 92 — Yes, we’re just a bunch of slackers.
goodyearhateswomen @ 17
Yes! Goodyear boycott!
itwasntme @ 54
Lost in Translation an equivlent:
- we will never leave Iraq
after all past mistakes and all that. Oh, I am new management here – I don’t even know how much the cogs are getting paid.
You’re exactly right. I never thought of it that way. Excellent.
The NewsHour report, typical these days, was mediocre. And Jim Lehrer is getting senile. He interjected in his commentators talk that the dissenters were “the liberals”, as if it were an off-the-cuff but nevertheless important point of context for his audience, but ignored the corollary observation, that the majority were all staunch conservatives, and that this decision was as much a party-line vote along a political fault-line as legal analysis.
Only at the end did the discussion bring up that this decision could affect millions of workers under this statute, and that its reasoning could affect millions more under other statutes that used similar wording. But that was at the end, with no time to contemplate or follow up that stunning observation!
Woodhall Hollow @ 88
Been there, done that. Actually worked in an environment of 8 female and 2 male staffers with 2 male managers where one of the male managers actually told a female worker that “we” wouldn’t be seeing much of a pay bump since they had to “take care of the boys”. Those boys had families to support, don’t you know.
GRRRR…
That was before threats to sue for discrimination happened, and a new transparent pay system was implemented. Oh, and both the managers were either canned or removed from supervisory roles.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 72
Hi, Redd!
The news broke yesterday in an article in The Anchorage Daily News, and was ignored by almost all radio and TV news around Anchorage and the state. It isn’t a very complicated story, as it appears there’s a big possibility that Stevens was somehow re-compensated by Veco for the money Stevens or his wife paid for the renovations, otherwise the stuff that is being subpoenoed now wouldn’t be.
Most have viewed from the beginning of this – back in August, 2006, that Ben Stevens, not Ted, was one of the ultimate targets here. I’m not so sure now. The grand jury, which meets one week per month, is empaneled through the remainder of 2007.
I have said much of this before but . . .
The deference and even reverence in which the Supreme Court is held are undeserved. Historically, the Court has championed the rights of the haves over the havenots, of the rich over ordinary Americans, of corporations over workers, of the government over individual citizens, and of the powerful over the weak.
When the SCOTUS did budge on an issue it was often decades behind the rest of the country. Most of the time this was not a belated recognition of an injustice but a self serving gesture to avoid irrelevancy. Some may point to the Warren Court (1953-1969) but 16 years out of more than 200 is not a lot.
In more recent times, we have had Bush v. Gore, an its opting for expediency over principle. Rasul too was less about individual rights than the preservation of judicial prerogatives. Finally, Hamdan did not defend habeas corpus so much as give the Congress a blueprint in how to circumvent it.
The Supreme Court, as the decision in the post cites, is neither the friend nor the defender of most Americans and their rights.
Speaking of fix-it lists – do we have some kick-ass judges to put on SCOTUS once dems completely take over in 2009? I understand some of our liberal justices want to retire, but are trying to hang on until then.
scarecrow @ 86
That may be a silver lining in all this. It forces us to re-enforce laws and to make them stronger and less susceptible to being corrupted or undermined.
The same is true for for single males v married males (with kids)
Biodun @ 66
He is doing just what he was put there to do. He is an A to the folks that got him there, and an F for those on the other side, as well as an F for those who would like an independent (driven/investigatory) jurist.
Hugh @ 103
Was that it’s mission in the beginning? To give the Executive a longer reach since, in theory, Executive powers were to be checked by the legislature?
Brisingamen @ 4
yes
OT. NOW the real Froomkin for today is up.
I’ve thought for several years that ’strict constructionist’ just means ‘follows the GOP party line’. Because somehow, whenever it comes to a choice between people and business-or-government, they go with business-or-government, even if it means reinterpreting the law in some tortured, twisted way. (Then they complain about liberal judges interpreting the law when they rule against business-or-government.)
Evil Dr. Puma @ 14
“The snake was a republican, of course.”
Many of the early Renaissance artists portrait the serpent as a woman.
Discrimination is carefully crafted and just as carefully concealed. Consultants and HR staffs speak in code, but know exactly what they’re talking about and sometimes laugh about.
The discrimination is not limited to sex. Age discrimination, for example, is rampant, and sometimes bragged about or knowingly admitted to applicants. Since anyone who’s attended an HR 101 seminar knows that’s patently illegal, it says much about the enforcement [sic] environment crafted by George Bush.
Discrimination is primarily driven by cost, but it’s also about control. Combine it with lemming-like outsourcing (often poorly and irreversibly implemented), companies now have a generation or more of managers who’ve never done it any other way. That snowball with the boulder in the middle is running down hill at gathering speed.
masaccio @ 112
Malkin and Coutlergeist come to mind.
redX @ 108
iirc, the whole Anita Hill/race mess kind of obscured the fact that he was incompetent. And I do recall specifically that he played the race card himself.
Rayne @ 84
Alito’s mine. Yikes!
there are several incompetent and some even openly criminal justices on our supreme court.
ask your legislature to recall them. our federal officials are 90% corrupt, thus making any that are not, impotent at stopping the ongoing criminal enterprise that is our country.
we need to remove all federally elected officials and replace them with people that represent the people of each state. It appears it is long past time our state legislatures begin doing what they were allowed to do by the constitution of this country, create laws and amendments to the constitution. there is no other hope of removing the habitually corrupt public officials we have now.
enact laws preventing lobbying, the shops close
enact laws with very severe penalties for representatives of congress that break the law.
enact prison terms that enable corrupt public officials to devote the remainder of their lives to cleaning toilets in the prisons and hospitals. with no possibility of parole
enact laws requiring a vote of the people of this country to go to war. politicians clearly can’t be trusted to take on such responsibility.
enact the law that says our government provides each citizen with comprehensive health care.
recall any state official that disagrees with the people of their state not having these rights under our constitution.
then see who wants the job of being our elected representatives. How many of those will be the same ones we have today? 1%?
we have clearly exhausted all other means to have a government and society of laws. penalties do not match the crimes. we have a government that has actively conspired to commit treason, bribery, war, and you fill in the remaining blanks. our department of justice is the biggest joke in the world now. There are no stars remaining except those we never hear about. I hope that Pat Fitzgerald merits all the kudos he receives. I trust him, and I hope that this trust isn’t mistaken. What kills me is how congress hasn’t appointed a special prosecutor yet to investigate so many crimes that have affected us all? and how many separate instances do our congress people know of that now demand the appointment? are we short on attorneys that we could appoint?
because of a lethargy that is likely to kill us all, it is time to remove them all.
You will see, if you look closely, that most employee manuals and offer letters now say that compensation is confidential between the employee and the employer, and that open discussion of same in the workplace is grounds for termination. I wonder why?
===
The Supreme Court needs radical surgery. There are two options: impeachment for untruth-telling during confirmation (Alito & Roberts) or expansion of the Court. Expansion can be more easily sold, especially given the workload complaints Rehnquist used to moan about in his final years. Perhaps, to shut down the wingnut complaints, we could call it the William Rehnquist Supreme Court Expansion Act? Add two seats — and do it when there’s a Democratic President. Appoint two young, vigorous, healthy non-corporatist women: Michelle Obama and Sheila Jackson Lee? Get Justice Ginsburg some company — and the rest of us some hope!
oddmommy @ 58
I have no doubt that Thomas, Roberts and Alito all gave false testimony to Congress at their confirmation hearings (re: Anita Hill, the Federalist Society and the Concerned Alumni of Princeton, resp.).
Can someone pleeeeeease tell me why impeachment is off the table?
(Yes, this is a stupid rhetorical question.)
oddmommy @ 116
Yep. When he said “this is high-tech lynching” all the Dems on that committee folded immediately. He really pulled that one off.
Can the Dems some how make this a campaign issue?
I am wondering if we are a democracy?
Teddy – YES! to Sheila Jackson Lee! I worked with her many moons ago before she was elected to Congress. She is a very smart, very thoughtful woman. What can we do to put names like these in the right ears?
I shouldn’t read this stuff right after lunch. Think I’m going to throw up. As Mel Brooks might say, “It’s good to be white” “It’s good to be male” Whada ya know, George, “It’s good to be king”, unless of course you’re Louie.
Blub @ 10
that is one of the coup 08 scenarios …
allan_in_upstate @ 119
It’s complicated, but the Dems are carefully laying the groundwork for impeachment through multiple investigations, all of which are leading inexorably to the White House. It takes time, so be patient. Publicly talking about impeachment is putting the rhetorical cart before the horse and calls into question the legitimacy of the investigative process.
Having said that, the Dems will be ready to bring articles of impeachment by the summer of 2010.
Marcy’s most recent TNH post: Reggie’s Got Mail
kdh22 @ 114
Lest I forget — Toestink, Taylor, Goodling, Doan, Matalin, Bailey-Hutchison, that stupid b*tch SOS from FL that I wanted to slap everytime I heard her voice, Comstock, O’Beirne…just to name a few.
http://www.scotusblog.com/mova…..ays_8.html
Hypocritical decision?
Converting an object of procedure into an object of substance is judicial activism…it’s the court making substantive law by interpreting a procedural rule. It’s what the rightwing has deplored for decades. I thought they wanted strict interpreters of the Constitution? Guess not.
Following the intent of law?
Title VII, not only made employor’s liable current discriminatory practices, it made them liable for past discriminatory practices in order to bring employers that have long engaged in discriminatory practices into compliance with Title VII.
Here, this provision provided encentive for employers currently paying women less because of their sex to immediately make the pay equal in order to aviod having to pay the accrued differences should an employee file action under Title VII.
It has long been established that if an Employor discriminates against Employee by paying him less than another similarly situated employee solely based on one of the Title VII factors…the difference in pay accrues from the moment it occurs after the employee files action and proves discrimination in a Court of law. There are also issues under the Equal Pay Act here, but the Title VII factors aren’t relevant – just unequal pay for same/similar job under the various SCOTUS tests.
Enlarging the sheild or dulling the sword?
To cut off a portion of damages under Title VII that have long served to bring employer’s into compliance of Title VII and/or prevent conspiring to ignore Title VII flies in the face of the intent of Title VII.
Congress’s intent was to end past & curb future employer discrimination in the workplace by providing an action of recourse for employees that is just and warranted under the circumstances.
Who’s winning?
The Corporate interest can’t get rid of Title VII claims, so they are trying to discourage them from being filed in the first place by making it harder if not impossible for discriminated employees to recover all damages incurred as a result of employer discrimination.
Stephen — Jane has something coming up on that shortly as well.
BTW, it is a violation of company policy to tell the ladies what I’m being paid. I believe it’s called don’t ask, don’t tell.
oddmommy @ 41
me too .. at least the barefoot and kitchen parts. I can’t quite do the the pregnant thing …
Cozumel @ 107
Half of us in the department had kids. The other half were trying to buy homes or pay for college, or in my case, both. “Take care of the boys” my eye.
And in this particular case, it was about gender, not marital status. The department ended up in group counseling, ultimately resulting in the termination of the senior manager.
Salary discussions among co-workers are often expressly forbidden by company policies and employment contracts, which often claim that discussing salary is an express reason for firing a worker for cause.
My understanding is that that is illegal and that co-workers may share that information at will. But it takes only a journeyman HR staffer or manager to get someone fired for a more defensible reason, once that person has made themselves a target by discussing pay. Anyone discussing pay is not a “team player”, and is likely to talk about or do other things that anger managers.
This decision is like winning the lottery for corporate backers of George Bush. A fact Karl’s Kids will endlessly remind them about when it comes time to pony up.
lee5 @ 132
Yeah, barefoot and kitchen are mutually exclusive in my home. The problem is that ‘they’ want women reproducing as many little neocons as possible, hence the push to overturn Roe.
Gnome de Plume @ 122
I think we need to expand the Supreme Court question Brian Williams asked at the first Democratic PrezCandi debate — not just what “type” of Justice you’d appoint, but exactly who might you appoint? Additionally, I’d like to hear some questions about Cabinet prospects as well.
ARGH! I cannot tell you how frustrating it is to read this. I didn’t even know this was pending. Try this on for size: “In addition to the original complains Conney had against the school, it was discovered during court proceedings that her UCLA department had a secret reserve of money that they used to supplement the salaries of male faculty members only.”
I don’t know how to link, original here: http://www.aauw.org/newsroom/p…..Conney.cfm
Does that mean, if this woman found this out years later (in this case, she didn’t even know, it was during the TRIAL that the pay discrimination came out), she’d have no recourse for the pay disparity?
kdh22 @ 109
It began almost as an afterthought with little real power. It was Marshall who carved out a place for it by asserting its power to oversee the actions of the Executive while at the same time generally backing up those actions and aligning itself with the interests of the rich and powerful.
When I was hired for my current job, in 1981, I replaced a man. I was paid approximately 55% of his salary. The more things change the more they stay the same. I am enraged/disgusted that this practice continues 26 years later.
This is pukeworthy.
Okay, so 3 months into a new job you’re gonna start sniffing around to find out about other peoples’ salaries.
Riiiiiight.
By law, you can’t ask a female if she’s pregnant during a job interview. But, there are seminars that teach HR people how to get that information without asking the question directly. Nice, huh?
The lovely and talented Ms. Hamsher is up top.
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..s/#respond
any discussions about sharing pay info w/ co-workers lead us directly to corporate ownership questions. As long as we don’t own (part of) the organizations we work for, there’s all kinds of things we can’t talk about, including pay.
Hugh@138
Thanks! I’m going to read up on the SCOTUS.
Basically, though, most of our Presidents have been from the ‘rich and powerful’ camp, so the SCOTUS is another safety net for that camp’s interests? Am I understanding that or am I way off?
noen @ 67
nope. sorry. they are not going to get off that easily. These folks are dyed-in-the-wool country club Republicans. We get these types every time we vote Republican. The end of the Bush dynasty (and I have to believe this is the end) will not change that. Don’t let Republicans off the hook. This is exactly what they want (and then some).
The majority’s logic comes straight from Kafka. It divorces the decision to discriminate from discriminatory behavior, as if only the consipiracy were illegal, not using the weapon on the bank teller. It ties the statute of limitation to acts the employee will never learn about in time, foreclosing his or her ability to enforce rights specifically granted by Congress.
The majority’s logic could be applied to a flotilla of statutes meant to empower labor, sinking them without firing a shot. As with its attacks on Rove v. Wade, gutting the law is more effective than taking it off the books. Among other things, it allows the punditry to argue that no new laws, regulations or decisions are needed, since the statutes “already adequately deal” with the problem.
Ginsburg was very smart to point the finger directly at Congress. This majority is not going anyway anytime in the next decade.
kdh22 @ 144
Well as long as the rich and powerful President represented the interests of his class. FDR has some epic battles with SCOTUS. His court stacking plan was seen as a failure but after it SCOTUS went largely quiet on his actions. Again this wasn’t because they saw the light but was done out of a simple desire to survive.
Solai @ 81
me too, if it was Scalia’s! haha
oddmommy @ 58
Poppy Bush played the race card to prevent liberals from voting against him, despite accusations of sexual harrassment from Anita Hill and his obvious hypocrisy and questionable competence. Thomas played it again in accusing critics of ‘high tech lynching’.
The hearings were colorful; Orrin Hatch posed the question “Did you ever say in words or substance something like there is a pubic hair in my Coke?” and “Did you ever use the term Long Dong Silver in conversation with Professor Hill?”
Wiki has some more interesting tidbits:
A dark day for the Supreme Court, and an intolerable insult to Thurgood Marshall, whom he replaced.
wow, I didn’t realize he replace TM. remarkable …
Earl,
The point you raise (being fired for cause due to an employee’s efforts to discover he or she has been discriminated against) is interesting because if an Employee is fired for cause under these circumstances, he or she will be barred from recovery of the accrued difference in pay when the filing period ends.
In otherwords, the employee gets canned for discovery of employer discrimination…then is unable to recover accrued damages incurred during the course of the entire discrimination when the filing period ends.
What encentive is there for an employee to investigate pay discrimination anymore – considering the chances of a meaningful recovery is slim to none due to a narrow time line in which he claim remains ripe?
Not much. Again the stratergy is to discourge Title VII claims inorder to further make it’s noncompliance less of an liability for employers.
Think of all female workers that haven been discriminated against for years (regarding pay difference) now losing recovery of any damages that normally would have accrued during those years. Will they still file? Will the employer change course without the employee filing if liability is now the current difference in pay?
It’s flat out protecting a thief by limiting the victim from recovering all things stolen from him or her by discouraging the victim from any seeking recovery at all.
They get to keep money that they deprived from women by their own discrimination. How in the world is that justified considering the intent of Title VII?
Dee @ 139
You know what’s really sickening? They blame us because we leave the workforce due to pregnancy, attributing the lower wages we earn to time lost in the workforce.
Yeah, right.
And they have all these happy-happy-bullsh*t articles about women opting out of the workforce. Jeebus, I had to leave my role as an office professional because I would have cleared $20 a week after paying for daycare. But that’s my fault as a woman, and why I’m worth less money than a man? No wonder I’d rather “opt out” and start my own business; it’s all down to me and my performance, and I actually can make more money than relying on some of these corporate jerks.
There are employers out there who don’t indulge in this crap, who are fair, transparent, and clearly believe in paying for performance. I’ve been lucky enough to work for a couple of them. But for every one decent company, I’ve worked for two that were shysters. I can’t believe we’ve slipped this far this fast, that I have to worry about the shysters all over again in my lifetime.
Hugh@
‘Again this wasn’t because they saw the light but was done out of a simple desire to survive.’
Back to the rudimentary effort…survival. We haven’t changed much in thousands of years, have we?
It could be worse. Mine’s Scalia.
scarecrow @ 86
They are just neocon tools, part of the Rove master blueprint. Plans for this takeover were laid long ago.
Who says we don’t need the Equal Rights Admendment?
How many single moms are going to suffer due to this assbackward decision? Pretty soon they will decide we aren’t responsible enough to carry a mortage. This was true in most of the country 35 years ago. Or use birth control. Oh, wait … they already started on that one.
How much fuckin more are we going to have to take????? (In the style of Lewis Black)
Women are the canaries in the coal mine in many more ways that I care to figure out.
The truth is that this is the dance in our democracy.
In periods of progress, laws are passed or decision are handed down that seek to create equality or prevent further inequality.
In periods of conservatism, those laws are weakened by certain limitations of enforcement or burdens upon the oppressed. And even the courts join in this effort by enlarging protections for inequality or minimizing the effectiveness of laws by restraining the quality and quantity of claims created under progressive laws.
And the reverse is true when conservative law makers create conservative laws. The balance of the sum is a body of law that is both conflicting and confusing at times – but encourages participation in the democracy in order to sustain the entire balance of power.
Good law stands and bad law is overturned. Everything in between swings back in forth from period to period.
TeddySanFran @ 119
Christy!?
gobot @ 158
Sure, I can see that from the 50,000 foot level. But when you’re a single working mother struggling to make ends meet, wondering how you’re going to pay for daycare and put food in children’s stomachs tonight, the very last thing you want to know is that you’re buying the “swing of the pendulum” with the 20% differential between your pay and the man sitting next to you doing the same job. There are some things like protecting those that can least do it for themselves that government should do at all times, regardless of where the swing of democracy’s pendulum may be.
lee5 @ 150
It was disgusting. In essence, Bush (Sr) said ‘Ok, here’s a new black justice to replace an old black justice.’ Shameful.
It’s a classic “CATCH 22.” One must protest a pay inequity within 180 days – yet a fellow employee pay is confidential. CATCH 22!
I wonder how Sandra Day O’Connor is feeling these days? Her vote put the Shrub in office and permitted all the damage to our country that’s occurred over the last 6 years. Her resignation allowed the appointment of Alito [with an “assist” by NARAL].
No matter how “conservative” she is, can she really look at this court and this country and be proud of her decisions?
Rayne @ 160
Rayne,
I understand you point. I wasn’t trying to soften what the SCOTUS has ruled. I was trying to express the point there is hope this decision will be overturned or congress will clearly express it’s intent regarding the issue so that the SCOTUS’s decision would be moot by clear expression of intent regarding the applicability of this procedural rule.
That’s the point. Congress was not clear on this specific issue, so the SCOTUS led by conservatives had the means to interpret a limitation on it’s application.
If Congress tommorrow passes a bill that speaks directly on this point, this decision is moot.
This has happened many times in Labor law and other areas when the SCOTUS interprets issues in law where Congress has not expressly stated it’s intent on a procedural rule. In the past, after becoming upset with the ruling, Congress has went back and clearly expressed it’s intent to render the SCOTUS’s decison moot.
Congress can amend law to clearly express it’s intent when they feel the SCOTUS got it wrong.
So there’s hope. This decision isn’t written in stone.
And I agree the government should protect etc at all times. But thats aspirational. Sometimes government unknowingly gets it wrong and sometimes intentionally. That’s reality.
Everyone has a right to pissed about this. No one, certainly not me, is implying you shouldn’t be pissed.
I was just saying we all have method of correcting this decision through Congress. Yes, that’s aspirational too. But thats all we’ve got. Only Congress can fix this.
Senator Clinton won’t get any credit, but here it is.
“In her opinion, Justice Ginsburg invited Congress to overturn the decision, as it did 15 years ago with a series of Supreme Court rulings on civil rights. “Once again, the ball is in Congress’s court,” she said. Within hours, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, who is seeking the Democratic nomination, announced her intention to submit such a bill.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05…..cotus.html
For the record, the idea my post about Congress fixing this didn’t come from reading the NY Times or Hillary.
It’s just the way it is when the SCOTUS interprets a procedural rule when the intent is not clearly expressed by Congress.
When Congress is unclear on an issue of law, the SCOTUS can step in to interpret it using various methods to determine it’s intent.
When Congress doesn’t agree with that interpretation, they can go back and amend the law by expressing their intent – thus making the SCOTUS’s decision on the issue moot.
Like I said, the conservative court took advantages of a door in Title VII left open. Congress generally doesn’t express their intent on every single rule because it’s impracticable and sometimes its a political move.
But Congress has the ability to go back and slam the door shut when Congress believes the SCOTUS wrongly interpreted the procedural rule.
This goes on ALL the time and has for since 1787. Each branch steps on another, the latter can reclaim the power usurped in various ways unique to each branch.
The question now is …will Congress do something?
blockquote>Why isn’t Goodyear ashamed about under paying this woman?
In many companies it is an absolute bitch to find out what someone doing comparable work is being paid. It is grounds for dismissal to even discuss your salary with another employee. I think this is one of the most loathsome decisions SCOTUS has ever made, not at all surprising how Roberts and Alito voted. Thank you again, Sandra Day OConner.
Justice Ginsburg is rapidly becoming my favorite, along with Marshall (of course).
If this is what the SC has ruled, then the information regarding employee pay must be made public in all businesses and government agencies. If the standard is to be that one must know if one is being underpaid in relation to others within 180 days of the underpayment, then no pay information can remain private. Simple.
Sometimes you just have to practice guerilla tactics to get attention when the legal system slams the door in your face. I’m sure Firepups can come up with creative ways to bring tens of thousands of law suits on equal pay to the courts across country and jam the system. Keep them coming. In my executive search days women were systematically paid less always with an excuse as to why they were not as valuable.
It is so hard to prove. Unless you break into HR files in the middle of the night you have no evidence. And, the higher the position the more secretive the negotiations.
Now I am not recommending breaking into HR during the wee m orning hours. But there are more than one way to skin a cat. Where are the male employees vulnerable?
Here is the other side. When men approached fifty years old they are tucked in the back as viable candidates. Younger men get the position because they could be paid less. Men were scared to say anything because they didn’t want to be blackballed in their next job offer. Their kids were now in high school and college.
Beware of the capitalist! There are no ethics, morals, humanity and preservation in the premise of capitalism.