Christy Hardin Smith @ 24

Albatross at 19 — Be careful with that. I happen to be married to a man that does not fit that description, not by a long shot. We should not stereotype this as an “all men versus all women” issue, because it is not.

This is a great point. Let us not forget that many, many women also act as enablers to the male stereotypes. . .

However, I believe men are changing and beginning to appreciate more and more a woman who is confident in her identity and her convictions. It is wildly attractive to men who are secure in their own self-image.

This began happening, what–40 years ago already? The countervailing example (my-husband-is-the-latest-model-with-extra-long-lasting-supportiveness) used to stereotyping men seems like weak tea–and it’s late to the table. Why not try the old ‘what’s saucy for the goose is saucy for the gander’ test instead? It’s rational, it’s empathetic, all at the same time. Essentializing or exceptionalizing either gender is inconsistent with feminism, whether the generalizing is a compliment directed towards women or a put-down directed towards men.

Feminism and sexism have never been limited to either gender. Plenty of women benefit from, defend, and police the patriarchal status quo and historic sexism. Phyllis Schlafly, anyone?

I share Joss’ outrage, but his ‘critique’ is really pretty shallow, and verges on overcompensating stereotypes that flow in both directions. That’s pretty corrosive.

It commits the same error Freud did–merely substituting “Womb Envy” for “P*nis Envy.” Bright.

The battle can’t be won with some grand gesture–consciously engaging on the interpersonal level with anyone and everyone offers limitless opportunities for forging healthier, more feminist relationships.

(MOD NOTE: Edited with * to allow through spam filter)

You can’t? Really?

I can.

What, shall we then be boiling people in oil where it’s a time-honored local tradition? Puh-leese.

Kevster at 3 — I only made it through about a minute. And I’ve seen enough autopsy photos in my day fro violent acts…and I really barely made it that long. That this was intended to be entertaining? Beyond disgusting. Sometimes I wonder how far beyond barbarism we will ever, ever get.

You know Christy, I work in a hospital. I’m in & out ER all during my shift. I’ve been in Radiology for damn near 25 years. I can and have seen things. I think the difference here is watching someone actually being killed. And what also enters into it further (at least for me) is the rationale, the gender of those present, the entertainment value…..

The issue of consent.

Did I get a chance to consent to this government? I’m sure I got the chance and I am equally sure that I said, “No Thanks.” In fact, I am fairly confident that, other than those signors of the magna carta, no one gets to consent to their government. Consent to the draft in times of war? I think not. Consent to taxes? um, I’d rather not.

Unfortunately this is what happens in a democracy in regards to government — or in third-world banana republics where government is corrupt. There are remedies. But I also note you are conflating individual consent with that of the governed, not at all the same things.

You speak of universal human rights and consent to conduct. Your reference is with Pedophilia, but your general tone leads me to conclude you have others in mend as well. I will never defend pedophilia and my discussion should in no way be seen that way. I agree with you and I share your values concerning its vileness. However, that is not so for all cultures. For you and I to profess that we have the correct position contrary to everything they have been taught and know, isnot only insensiitive, its just plain insulting. More teachers, less judges.

I provide for your edification a link to the United Nations’ Conventions on the Rights of the Child, and the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights. I’m sure the UN also has several other accords and treaties specifically addressing the rights of women as well as political freedoms.

And I’m entirely aware this particular country is guilty of numerous breaches.

The issue of consent.

Did I get a chance to consent to this government? I’m sure I got the chance and I am equally sure that I said, “No Thanks.” In fact, I am fairly confident that, other than those signors of the magna carta, no one gets to consent to their government. Consent to the draft in times of war? I think not. Consent to taxes? um, I’d rather not.
You speak of universal human rights and consent to conduct. Your reference is with Pedophilia, but your general tone leads me to conclude you have others in mend as well. I will never defend pedophilia and my discussion should in no way be seen that way. I agree with you and I share your values concerning its vileness. However, that is not so for all cultures. For you and I to profess that we have the correct position contrary to everything they have been taught and know, isnot only insensiitive, its just plain insulting. More teachers, less judges.

It is also incumbent upon you to live this life with that higher consciousness.

Be careful not to be imprisoned by your beliefs.
Might I suggest the writings of Messrs Einstein & Emerson as well as Ouspensky’s “A new Model of the Universe”.
If you must read only one book, make it Louise Hay’s “You Can Heal Your Life”.
My Best to you.
P.

I am and will remain agnostic as to how any of us get to transcendent and then unity consciousness, or any other state of consciousness for that matter; humans are capable of traversing the transitions from numerous points using numerous methods. I’ve already had a kundalini experience during the birthing process for my first child; having been there, someplace between a transcendent and unity state, I’m pretty sure there are limitations to “outreach” backward from that state, shall we say. Until humans emerge to a point where they can directly transfer or communicate the experience of qualia between themselves, it’s only remotely possible.

In exchange let me suggest both Ken Wilber’s A Brief History of Everything and Jenny Wade’s Changes of Mind: A Holonomic Theory of Human Consciousness.

Cultures have been known to abandon certain practices that were once acceptable and “legal”, like slavery or denying women the right to vote or own property.

Pedophilia is an example of a practice where young people are abused at an age where they are unable to consent, in the guise of teaching; it does not matter the culture, it is to be abhorred and reviled.

If you make the case that pedophilia is not to be condemned, then rape is also not to be condemned if normative in a culture, as it is in some cultures that also embrace honor killings. Again, this is another practice where persons are not permitted to object, their right to consent or reject ignored.

This isn’t a matter of religion; it’s about human rights, and they are universal. If one cannot consent, it is beyond cultural approval.

sexism has demonstrated by the video and conversely by the whedon post is not the answer. If this killing had been done by people wearing loincloths in a jungle by a “lost Tribe” would it be more acceptable? Can we not recognize local custom, even if it is “inhumane” by western values? I think the westenized appearance of the participants, with clothing and technology, covers the basic cultural difference that still clearly exist. The definition of a Crime comes from local tradition and values. Just because one culture does not accord with ones own is not reason for condemnation. I hate that a girl was killed and it does make me very sad that her culture does not value life more seriously, but I can not condemn those who carried out the accepted law for the area.

Rayne @ 191

skilly @ 189

…but I can not condemn those who carried out the accepted law for the area.

So to extend the logic, you would not have a problem with slavery if it was the “accepted law for the area”?

Or pedophilia – no problem if it were the “accepted law for the area”?

Sorry, not buying it. There are universal values and ethics that transcend all cultures. Killing and suppressing others is not one of them, anywhere.

Rayne,

Pedophilia is a prime example. There are many parts of Africa where sex is “Taught” by the grandparent. now if that grandparent tries to have a lesson in the U.S. he better not rely on his “customs” as defense to the criminal prosecution, but he wont have to in Africa, b.c it won’t be a crime there. If the value is truly “universal” then it will already be accepted in the village in question. It’s not really universal if its not accepted everywhere. I think you may misunderstand what I mean when I say that, “I can not condemn” another for the pracitce of their tradition. It does not mean that I am approving it, or even condoning it. It means, to me anyway, that I can say, “I don’t approve.” But I am just a guest in their house and I have no standing to tell them what to do or how. I can refuse to partake and I can step up and say, Here is why I think this is wrong! Telling people what values they SHOULD have pisses them off.

I had many, many heated arguments with the sociobiology crowd. My repeated point is that we ARE NOT still animals, even though the animal instinct underlie and explain many of our behaviors. We are rational, thinking beings (with access to DNA testing) and we need to outgrow, or at least deal with, this instinct.

The misogynists who do these things are acting out of their animal nature. WE CAN BE BETTER THAN THIS! On an instinctual level, this behavior makes sense to us (?) and therefor we accept it. It’s the lizard brain thing.

Thank you, yes. Exactly. I tire of what I call “biological mythology” as an excuse or explanation for human behavior. I’ve even heard biomythological explanations to justify the present cultural preference for tall, skinny, large-breasted women: “Women need to be able to feed the children, and run from predators!” Sheesh…

If all we are is slaves to our biology, then why aren’t we up in the trees where we belong? Why do we insist on unnaturally living to twice our biologically-mandated lifespans?

While we are animals, we are more than animals, and part of our responsibility in the world is to overcome our animal natures and make the world a better place.