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	<title>Comments on: Fighting Them There So . . .</title>
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		<title>By: Kairos in Cal</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/05/28/fighting-them-there-so/#comment-723856</link>
		<dc:creator>Kairos in Cal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 May 2007 20:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/05/28/fighting-them-there-so/#comment-723856</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Scarecrow, this may or may not cheer you: the whales have left Rio Vista &amp; are down by Martinez, but again going in circles. Think they’re waiting for their second shot of antibiotics before resuming their journey out to sea. That’s what’s happening in NorCal.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Tried to send you reference to a post from ____ Professor &lt;b&gt;regarding the truth of why we’re still fighting them there. &lt;/b&gt;(the reference from BuzzWatch wouldn’t work.)  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s cuz BushCheneyCo haven’t gotten the oil bill passed in the Iraq parliament.  I hope they never pass it.  But I hope we get the heck out of there.  Article has long quotes from Kucinich and another Dem rep that notes that there are three lines about dividing the oil between the three groups there, and 33 pages about dividing it between the American/Brit oil companies, along with some history back to the 50s. But of course the admin only talks about the three lines.  So typical of their infinite lies &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;When is FDL going to address this issue? And when the heck are the Dem Pres seekers and the MSM going to address this.  When will there be truth telling?  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;b&gt;It’s always been about the oil.  &lt;/b&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
The big old embassy and all the permanent military bases are to protect the big oil cos. infinite future exploitation of the Iraqi oil.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scarecrow, this may or may not cheer you: the whales have left Rio Vista &amp; are down by Martinez, but again going in circles. Think they’re waiting for their second shot of antibiotics before resuming their journey out to sea. That’s what’s happening in NorCal.</p>
<p>Tried to send you reference to a post from ____ Professor <b>regarding the truth of why we’re still fighting them there. </b>(the reference from BuzzWatch wouldn’t work.)  </p>
<p>It’s cuz BushCheneyCo haven’t gotten the oil bill passed in the Iraq parliament.  I hope they never pass it.  But I hope we get the heck out of there.  Article has long quotes from Kucinich and another Dem rep that notes that there are three lines about dividing the oil between the three groups there, and 33 pages about dividing it between the American/Brit oil companies, along with some history back to the 50s. But of course the admin only talks about the three lines.  So typical of their infinite lies </p>
<p>When is FDL going to address this issue? And when the heck are the Dem Pres seekers and the MSM going to address this.  When will there be truth telling?  </p>
<p><b>It’s always been about the oil.  </b><br />
The big old embassy and all the permanent military bases are to protect the big oil cos. infinite future exploitation of the Iraqi oil.</p>
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		<title>By: pre-amerikkkan</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/05/28/fighting-them-there-so/#comment-723781</link>
		<dc:creator>pre-amerikkkan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 May 2007 20:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/05/28/fighting-them-there-so/#comment-723781</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;isn’t there some obscure provision somewhere about being able to enact an emergency draft in wartime of all landowning white males over the age of 18 when it is proved needed to protect our country?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;or did i just dream that?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;someone has got to figure out how we are going to occupy the middle east without live bodies.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;volunteers are not crowding the recruitment centers and we show no signs of EVER leaving any country that has something we want.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;so where are the bodies going to come from when the poor people are all dead?  first, you KNOW that if we do get a draft, there will still be deferments, so middle class? YOU are it!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;happy memorial day, cannon fodder.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>isn’t there some obscure provision somewhere about being able to enact an emergency draft in wartime of all landowning white males over the age of 18 when it is proved needed to protect our country?</p>
<p>or did i just dream that?</p>
<p>someone has got to figure out how we are going to occupy the middle east without live bodies.</p>
<p>volunteers are not crowding the recruitment centers and we show no signs of EVER leaving any country that has something we want.</p>
<p>so where are the bodies going to come from when the poor people are all dead?  first, you KNOW that if we do get a draft, there will still be deferments, so middle class? YOU are it!</p>
<p>happy memorial day, cannon fodder.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/05/28/fighting-them-there-so/#comment-723481</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 May 2007 15:48:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/05/28/fighting-them-there-so/#comment-723481</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I really think the neocons planned it this way.  This isn’t about just about Iraq.  It’s about the whole area.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really think the neocons planned it this way.  This isn’t about just about Iraq.  It’s about the whole area.</p>
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		<title>By: Badwater</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/05/28/fighting-them-there-so/#comment-723343</link>
		<dc:creator>Badwater</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 May 2007 14:17:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/05/28/fighting-them-there-so/#comment-723343</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-723332&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Kathleen @ 83&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Who does Blackwater answer to?  No one&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Private_security_contractor_Blackwater_open_fire_0526.html&quot;&gt;http://rawstory.com/news/2007/....._0526.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;They should change their name to Bloodywater!&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Perhaps they answer to the Carlyle Group.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-723332"><em>Kathleen @ 83</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Who does Blackwater answer to?  No one</p>
<p><a href="http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Private_security_contractor_Blackwater_open_fire_0526.html">http://rawstory.com/news/2007/&#8230;.._0526.html</a></p>
<p>They should change their name to Bloodywater!</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Perhaps they answer to the Carlyle Group.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathleen</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/05/28/fighting-them-there-so/#comment-723332</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 May 2007 14:13:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/05/28/fighting-them-there-so/#comment-723332</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Who does Blackwater answer to?  No one&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Private_security_contractor_Blackwater_open_fire_0526.html&quot;&gt;http://rawstory.com/news/2007/....._0526.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;They should change their name to Bloodywater!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who does Blackwater answer to?  No one</p>
<p><a href="http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Private_security_contractor_Blackwater_open_fire_0526.html">http://rawstory.com/news/2007/&#8230;.._0526.html</a></p>
<p>They should change their name to Bloodywater!</p>
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		<title>By: Poopyman</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/05/28/fighting-them-there-so/#comment-723300</link>
		<dc:creator>Poopyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 May 2007 13:52:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/05/28/fighting-them-there-so/#comment-723300</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;A word on Memorial Day:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;My dad could not serve in WWII with a broken eardrum, but he was already working in a strategic industry - railroads - so he probably wouldn’t have been taken anyway. But in 1950 he and my mother bought one of those post-war houses in a development that was stocked full of returning vets and their young families.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The late 50s and 60s was a fabulous time to be growing up in that environment. Tons of kids of approximately the same age, and stay-at-home moms who as a group looked out for all of us.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But the dads, those vets. It wasn’t until years later that I began to see the them in a new light. Dads staggering home drunk twice a week. One liked to chase his kids around the front yard and laughed to hear them scream. I &lt;i&gt;think &lt;/i&gt; he was fooling around with them, but they weren’t going to hang around to find out. Arguments that could be heard down the block on hot summer nights. This was the environment I was raised in, so to me it was normal, then.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So here’s to the departed dads of my youth. Not all war casualties are counted as such.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A word on Memorial Day:</p>
<p>My dad could not serve in WWII with a broken eardrum, but he was already working in a strategic industry &#8211; railroads &#8211; so he probably wouldn’t have been taken anyway. But in 1950 he and my mother bought one of those post-war houses in a development that was stocked full of returning vets and their young families.</p>
<p>The late 50s and 60s was a fabulous time to be growing up in that environment. Tons of kids of approximately the same age, and stay-at-home moms who as a group looked out for all of us.</p>
<p>But the dads, those vets. It wasn’t until years later that I began to see the them in a new light. Dads staggering home drunk twice a week. One liked to chase his kids around the front yard and laughed to hear them scream. I <i>think </i> he was fooling around with them, but they weren’t going to hang around to find out. Arguments that could be heard down the block on hot summer nights. This was the environment I was raised in, so to me it was normal, then.</p>
<p>So here’s to the departed dads of my youth. Not all war casualties are counted as such.</p>
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		<title>By: perris</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/05/28/fighting-them-there-so/#comment-723297</link>
		<dc:creator>perris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 May 2007 13:50:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/05/28/fighting-them-there-so/#comment-723297</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Since the regime ignored the intelligence reports predicting this would happen, it’s unlikely they’ll now admit their policies are exacerbating the danger. At least Al Gore has the courage to say it straight out (h/t C&amp;L). &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Locked in its bellicose neocon ideology, the regime remains oblivious to the public will, disdainful of intelligence warnings and reckless in ways that are endangering us and our friends
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;we’ve been saying this since before the war, Clarke made it crystal clear in public before everyone’s eyes&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;the president was warned engaging Iraq, would create more terrorism it wouldn’t be fighting it&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;every single military expert, aid, general, was incredulous that the president actually wanted to divert the resources we needed in Afghanistan into Iraq, I country he was told in no uncertain terms posed no threat&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;this president was told and told and told, do NOT engage Iraq, do NOT voluntarily fight two fronts&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;you know, when we were children we were told an Aesop’s fable;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;the king gave each of his children a stack of straw, none of them could break the stack&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;until&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;he gave his sons a little of the stack each, divide and conquer&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;war 101, do not voluntarily engage two fronts&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;this president actually divided our resources deliberately and with intention&lt;br /&gt;
‘&lt;br /&gt;
it’s as if he read bin laden’s play book and led America to do whatever bin laden wanted us to do&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;it looks deliberate, let’s take this “surge”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;every single expert told the president he would be exacerbating the problem…what did that mean to the president”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;it meant “GREAT, I WANT SOME OF THAT”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;look at us today, the military is stretched too thin, we have to be told this from the president’s own generals, we can no longer recruit quality assets, they refuse to be a part of this presidents depraved war&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;our states assets are gone, used in Iraq and no longer available&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;our treasure to replenish is gone, borrowed against our kids future from china and saudi arabia&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;what does it take for congress to do something about what is being done to America?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;what does it take?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;it’s time they de authorised the president’s war&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;pelosi has to go in front of the TEEvee and say’&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“this president tells us he is under the impression he’s doing a good job, this president is tells us he is under the impression he’s figting terrosm&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;he makes these claims inspite of the facts before his very eyes, he makes bizzare claims that have no basis in military strategy and our own inteligence&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;he is under the impression we are going to let him continue making decisions that fly in the face of all military advise, insight and knowledge&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;we will not, he is not to make decisions without our consent, we are here to bring our military back to the strength it was before his diversion, we are here to start the fight against terrorism once more&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;this presient’s policies and decisions are exclusive from those goals”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;enough is enough Nancy, I was impressed with your achievements from the start of your tenure as speaker but Ia’m getting too anxous now, American can’t wait, the world can’t wait&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;it’s time to do something about this now&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Since the regime ignored the intelligence reports predicting this would happen, it’s unlikely they’ll now admit their policies are exacerbating the danger. At least Al Gore has the courage to say it straight out (h/t C&amp;L). </p>
<p>Locked in its bellicose neocon ideology, the regime remains oblivious to the public will, disdainful of intelligence warnings and reckless in ways that are endangering us and our friends
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>we’ve been saying this since before the war, Clarke made it crystal clear in public before everyone’s eyes</p>
<p>the president was warned engaging Iraq, would create more terrorism it wouldn’t be fighting it</p>
<p>every single military expert, aid, general, was incredulous that the president actually wanted to divert the resources we needed in Afghanistan into Iraq, I country he was told in no uncertain terms posed no threat</p>
<p>this president was told and told and told, do NOT engage Iraq, do NOT voluntarily fight two fronts</p>
<p>you know, when we were children we were told an Aesop’s fable;</p>
<p>the king gave each of his children a stack of straw, none of them could break the stack</p>
<p>until</p>
<p>he gave his sons a little of the stack each, divide and conquer</p>
<p>war 101, do not voluntarily engage two fronts</p>
<p>this president actually divided our resources deliberately and with intention<br />
‘<br />
it’s as if he read bin laden’s play book and led America to do whatever bin laden wanted us to do</p>
<p>it looks deliberate, let’s take this “surge”</p>
<p>every single expert told the president he would be exacerbating the problem…what did that mean to the president”</p>
<p>it meant “GREAT, I WANT SOME OF THAT”</p>
<p>look at us today, the military is stretched too thin, we have to be told this from the president’s own generals, we can no longer recruit quality assets, they refuse to be a part of this presidents depraved war</p>
<p>our states assets are gone, used in Iraq and no longer available</p>
<p>our treasure to replenish is gone, borrowed against our kids future from china and saudi arabia</p>
<p>what does it take for congress to do something about what is being done to America?</p>
<p>what does it take?</p>
<p>it’s time they de authorised the president’s war</p>
<p>pelosi has to go in front of the TEEvee and say’</p>
<p>“this president tells us he is under the impression he’s doing a good job, this president is tells us he is under the impression he’s figting terrosm</p>
<p>he makes these claims inspite of the facts before his very eyes, he makes bizzare claims that have no basis in military strategy and our own inteligence</p>
<p>he is under the impression we are going to let him continue making decisions that fly in the face of all military advise, insight and knowledge</p>
<p>we will not, he is not to make decisions without our consent, we are here to bring our military back to the strength it was before his diversion, we are here to start the fight against terrorism once more</p>
<p>this presient’s policies and decisions are exclusive from those goals”</p>
<p>enough is enough Nancy, I was impressed with your achievements from the start of your tenure as speaker but Ia’m getting too anxous now, American can’t wait, the world can’t wait</p>
<p>it’s time to do something about this now</p>
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		<title>By: Badwater</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/05/28/fighting-them-there-so/#comment-723296</link>
		<dc:creator>Badwater</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 May 2007 13:50:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/05/28/fighting-them-there-so/#comment-723296</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-723291&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;solai @ 78&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;And FWIW, anyone who lived through the Vietnam Era knows that joining the National Guard was a means to avoid Vietnam. Rove managed to somehow pretend that pointing that out was akin to dissing the Guard. Bull! It is a fact. Our bully president avoided serving…period.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Now the Decider has made himself feel brave by using the National Guard as cannon fodder.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-723291"><em>solai @ 78</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>And FWIW, anyone who lived through the Vietnam Era knows that joining the National Guard was a means to avoid Vietnam. Rove managed to somehow pretend that pointing that out was akin to dissing the Guard. Bull! It is a fact. Our bully president avoided serving…period.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Now the Decider has made himself feel brave by using the National Guard as cannon fodder.</p>
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		<title>By: Badwater</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/05/28/fighting-them-there-so/#comment-723293</link>
		<dc:creator>Badwater</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 May 2007 13:45:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/05/28/fighting-them-there-so/#comment-723293</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Cheney means “You have to fight them there so you won’t have to fight them here.  We, the Republic elite, do not fight.”&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cheney means “You have to fight them there so you won’t have to fight them here.  We, the Republic elite, do not fight.”</p>
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		<title>By: solai</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/05/28/fighting-them-there-so/#comment-723291</link>
		<dc:creator>solai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 May 2007 13:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/05/28/fighting-them-there-so/#comment-723291</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;And FWIW, anyone who lived through the Vietnam Era knows that joining the National Guard was a means to avoid Vietnam. Rove managed to somehow pretend that pointing that out was akin to dissing the Guard. Bull! It is a fact. Our bully president avoided serving…period.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And FWIW, anyone who lived through the Vietnam Era knows that joining the National Guard was a means to avoid Vietnam. Rove managed to somehow pretend that pointing that out was akin to dissing the Guard. Bull! It is a fact. Our bully president avoided serving…period.</p>
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