I have often heard that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. But perhaps a shorter route is the one paved with hubris, ego, and a belief that the flowing tide of history might be shaped by an inept hand bent on making the world around it conform to how it wishes it to be if everything were perfectly arrayed on the platter before the king, and not how it actually is - messy and in disarray, and as unwilling to bow to invaders of today as it had been for centuries before now. To wit (via WaPo):
In a statement attached to yesterday's 229-page report, the Senate intelligence committee's chairman, John D. Rockefeller IV (W.Va.), and three other Democratic panel members said: "The most chilling and prescient warning from the intelligence community prior to the war was that the American invasion would bring about instability in Iraq that would be exploited by Iran and al Qaeda terrorists."In addition to portraying a terrorist nexus between Iraq and al-Qaeda that did not exist, the Democrats said, the Bush administration "also kept from the American people . . . the sobering intelligence assessments it received at the time" -- that an Iraq war could allow al-Qaeda "to establish the presence in Iraq and opportunity to strike at Americans it did not have prior to the invasion."...
Most of the information in the report was drawn from two lengthy assessments issued by the National Intelligence Council in January 2003, titled "Principal Challenges in Post-Saddam Iraq" and "Regional Consequences of Regime Change in Iraq," both of which the Senate report reprints with only minor redactions. The assessments were requested by Richard N. Haass, then director of policy planning at the State Department, and were written by Paul R. Pillar, the national intelligence officer for the Near East, as a synthesis of views across the 16-agency intelligence community.
The report includes lists indicating that the analyses, which were reported by The Washington Post last week, were distributed at senior levels of the White House and the State and Defense departments and to the congressional armed services and appropriations committees. At the time, the White House and the Pentagon were saying that U.S. troops would be greeted as liberators, democracy would be quickly established and Iraq would become a model for the Middle East. Initial post-invasion plans called for U.S. troop withdrawals to begin in summer 2003.
The classified reports, however, predicted that establishing a stable democratic government would be a long challenge because Iraq's political culture did "not foster liberalism or democracy" and there was "no concept of loyal opposition and no history of alternation of power."
They also said that competing Sunni, Shiite and Kurd factions would "encourage terrorist groups to take advantage of a volatile security environment to launch attacks within Iraq." Because of the divided Iraqi society, there was "a significant chance that domestic groups would engage in violent conflict with each other unless an occupying force prevented them from doing so."
While predicting that terrorist threats heightened by the invasion would probably decline within five years, the assessments said that lines between al-Qaeda and other terrorist groups around the world "could become blurred." U.S. occupation of Iraq "probably would boost proponents of political Islam" throughout the Muslim world and "funds for terrorist groups probably would increase as a result of Muslim outrage over U.S. actions." (emphasis mine)
The LATimes has more, including this, which I think is the most damning thing anyone could ever say about an administration sending soliders off to war:
Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.), said the report demonstrated that "the intelligence community gave the administration plenty of warning about the difficulties we would face if the decision was made to go to war."He added: "These dire warnings were widely distributed at the highest levels of government, and it's clear that the administration didn't plan for any of them." (emphasis mine)
This is what is so unforgiveable. I do not care what your political affiliation might be, I don't care whether you are a militarist or a pacifist -- we ought to all agree, from the get go, that if you are going to send men and women to battle, where they risk losing life and limb, that you have better damn well do everything possible to plan for every worst case scenario about which you have been warned, and any others about which you might think would be possible. Anything less is sloppy and, worse, disrespectful to the lives of the men and women in uniform and to their families.
And on this Memorial Day weekend and every day of dereliction of duty before it and after...the nation certainly deserves better than this. Our soldiers sure as hell deserve more consideration and planning than they were given -- and George Bush's ego is hardly justification enough for any of this.
There are still two more sections of the Phase II analysis in the Senate Intelligence Committee to come. Depite Kit Bond's claims of partisan rancor, the first segment of the report was approved by a bi-partisan majority -- with a 10-5 vote in the commmittee that included two Republicans. The third section, which details the investigation of politicization and misuse of intelligence in public statements by officials is said to be the biggest current hold-up, both for declassification and wording issues on which the various committee factions and staffers cannot seem to agree. But the fact that we know even this little bit of background publicly likely means that the Bush Administration is missing Pat Roberts stranglehold on the whole thing at this point, because even this tiny portion is damning in its portrait of disregard for the fiduciary obligation that ought to be owed to our nation's soldiers.
Laura Rozen has a link to the PDF of the full report, as well as a statement from Sen. Rockefeller on its issuance. Steve Clemons has some interesting bits from Pat Lang and Larry Wilkerson, and their interactions with Feith, Tenet and Wolfowitz -- and it is well worth a read. Larry Johnson adds a bit more, as he was there as well.
Imagine having the curator job at the Bush Presidential Library in about 30 years, let alone being its PR director. History's lens is not going to be kind, no matter how many coats of varnish they may try to give this mess.
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Christy’s on a roll this morning!
INDIANAPOLIS 500!
….and even though I’m still not sure what it means:
Zed!
christy–thanks for this. I was wondering what you thought of my back-at-you @ 158 in the last string?
Isn’t this enough for impeachment or am I just too fucking hopeful?
‘Kept from the American people‘ is just equating at the moment with, oh, I don’t know - LYING.
Hi Christy and everyone!
Kitt Bond is a mealymouthed bush CYA man.
OT
The national average price for regular gasoline has declined over the last 3 days from a high of $3.227 on May 24 to $3.212 today.
Funny how that happens only after the media turn their attention to it and we get a steady drumbeat of stories on it.
Christy, this is something I was aware of for quite awhile, I don’t know where I read about it but I have known this for a long time. My point is that if I, just one of the bozos on the bus knew this then congress and the senate had to know it, which points to a very ugly fact; the disingenuous behavior of all, republicans and democrats, the one filled with hubris and unthinking ignorance, the other a complete lack of balls and I hold them all in contempt.
Hugh,
I fought the gas prices by getting rid of my car, moving closer to work, and walking :D
Democrats who voted with Bush to attack Iraq had to know about these CIA warnings too.
Christy, great post, very informative, but I think you’re being charitable. Yes, certainly, incompetence and hubris on many fronts were big components of the current debacle, but it seems to me that the Rove-Cheney playbook is mighty well-served by a new Cold War, which is obviously what the GWOT was created to be. It provides endless power for them (or so they believed) and endless pork for their and cronies’ bank accounts. The McCarthy era was a grand one for the GOP, why not bring it back? And while we’re at it, why not replay Vietnam? We can demonize the Democrats as (probably gay) wimps and prove once and for all that crushing a Third World country IS doable. I don’t think Iraq was a mistake or that the warnings were ignored inadvertently. What’s happening in Iraq (war without end) is exactly what Rove and Cheney had in mind. And that’s the reason hell will freeze over before they’ll get out.
I saw this last night and downloaded it, and am stunned to realize this is the Phase 2 report we’ve been waiting for! Only been up a few hours today, and so far no mentions on the tv about it at all. None.
What more appropriate day is there to discuss the lies that got us into the war than Memorial Day? Dealing with reality is the best way to honor the people fighting this occupation.
I can’[t for the life of me understand why Rockefeller released the report on the Friday of Memorial Day weekend fer Gawdsakes.
It is depressing how prescient the predictions were and infuriatingly galling how they were ignored.
Yet The Decider say he reads the intelligence. He doesn’t believe any of it, but he reads it.
Heckuva job Shrubya!
I agree that Kit Bond is slime. He helped set up the American Center for Voting Rights whose only purpose was to testify before Congress on the dangers of voter fraud. He is also from Missouri and the fact that Bradley Scholzman who also had a similar mania about voter fraud was named interim US attorney for Western Missouri probably was not an accident.
How much extra air pollution (global warming)does the Indy 500 add? How many tons per day does the Iraq War add?
I had the same conversation with a friend the other night. How in the hell does George Bush feel he’ll be ‘exonerted by History’?
Even IF (a big if) historians come to believe that invading Iraq was ‘the right thing’, this intelligence, together with the idiocy of Bremer and the CPA, negates any possible credit he could receive. He turned a stable country (granted, a dictatorship) into anarchy, he gives al Qaeda a fundraiser and recruitment cause, and single-handledly hands Iran a major strategic victory without them having to lift a finger.
By the way he went about the invasion and the aftermath, he won’t even get the ultimate patronizing historian comment: ‘at least he meant well.’
I have a feeling Napoleon III will be rated as a more effective leader than W, and that’s saying something. Charles I, even–at least a more sympathtic figure, anyway.
Hugh @ 7
It started to go down here (SF bay area) week before last, after a high of $3.56 at my corner 76 (one of the cheaper ones). People were driving in and then driving out as soon as they saw the price, so they lowered it a bit. I think they are playing by ear.
Honor and support the troops. Bring them home.
The Bush Presidential library curator will have a legitimate excuse: It wasn’t Bush’s fault, but ours.
I like what Al Gore said on Letterman a few days ago: we are ALL going to be judged for this fiasco and are capitulation to the administration. And I think it starts with the Boomer generation. Upton Sinclair and other progressives were the true engine behind the 60s’, and so the GWB, Roves, DeLays and Norquists of politics have really defined the Boomer generation, not the 60s counterculture. Either some of the Boomers step up to the plate and put up a fight, or step aside for Obama and the next generation (and don’t give me the Generation X label; that was manufactured by a Candadian hippie and failed author).
cancer_cures @ 9
Bless you.
U.S. Security Contractors Open Fire in Baghdad
Blackwater Employees Were Involved in Two Shooting Incidents in Past Week
dalloway @ 11
And they aren’t building that Vatican-sized embassy for nothing. Cheney still envisions Iraq as the seat of his permanent control of mid eastern oil.
Last paragraph: “it’s” -> “its”
This maybe old news but Al Gore was on C-span with Harry Shearer and very intelligently painted a picture of where we are now. I don’t have a link but it is worth watching.
I do not agree with Chairman Rockefeller’s assessment that the administration didn’t plan for any of the conditions predicted in the report. Why? Because they wanted those conditions to come about. They wanted a weak central government neutered by all of the sectarian strife so that U.S. corporations could rake-in billions of dollars in no-bid contracts without doing any work due to the insurgency and they wanted the oil companies to have relatively free access to plunder Iraq’s oil until it runs out.
All of the talk about democracy and setting an example for other nations in the Middle East to follow was 100% bullshit. Yes, Boy George and his Dick, their neocon enablers, and the delusional rapture crowd are not terribly bright. In fact, they remind me of a string of mostly burned out Christmas lights. However, they are crafty and manipulative liars and they’re not so illiterate or stupid that they didn’t know full well what would happen before they plunged our nation into an illegal and immoral war in Iraq.
It always has been about enriching the rich at the expense of the poor and stealing natural resources that belong to other countries.
Thank you, Christy!
and AMEN.
Still waiting for the front-runners to say something useful.
Gore for president.
I agree with Spurious. Remember in the first few months of this administration, Cheney, Spence Abraham and others met, literally, behind closed doors and constructed this Admins. Energy Plan? The press jumped on it because it was the first time that they were left out of something like this, and it got lost in the shuffle between the numerous nefarious meetings Darth has had since, and 9/11. This is their plan: control the oil region. And control it for a few select families and interest groups, and the rest of the county feed off the scraps.
Does it just kill people in here during George S’s segment, In Memoriam, on This Week? I am tired of watching our soldiers die for a shaky strategy for the world’s oil and safety of Israel.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 27
Wouldn’t it be refreshing if one of these so called candidates for president actually became a human being and spoke from their heart.
Mason @ 25
I agree.
I know this is a little OT … but did anyone see Richardson on with the Big Pumpkin this morning? Is it me or does the BP just save it for Dems? He was never like that with Tenet? Or any of the Republiscum he has on.
Maddy @ 30
;0)
Wordsmith
sorry I didn’t get that crack right last night
:)
One has to wonder what other interesting information will spring forth from the bottom desk drawer of “water carrier” Pat Roberts desk now that Rockefeller has the reins.
It goes without saying that any of this information that might have come to light would have blown a second term for Commander Guy Bunnypants in ‘04. It’s a shame that republicans felt that keeping their hands in the cookie jar was more important than the lives of our troops for the last four-plus years.
I don’t always think the American People have the attention span to get beyond Anna Nicole and Brittany, but this might have gotten their attention.
Get Tough @ 19
Maybe it has already been mentioned, but Gore will be on KO on Tuesday.
FWIW: I have a couple of typically bilious, vituperative, tasteless, profane
posts up, any one of which is certain to offend delicate sensibilities, for which i have been renowned in other venues:
http://walled-in-pond.blogspot.....mbfux.html
http://walled-in-pond.blogspot.....fixin.html
http://thewell-armedlamb.blogs.....pport.html
http://thewell-armedlamb.blogs.....nd-oh.html
Christy sez:
This is why I think BushCo should be charged with, and then tried for their crimes.
say it again, Christy. again and again.
cancer_cures @ 9
Welcome to the club. I’m a pure foot-leather and public transportation man. I really could use a bicycle at some point, though….
Watchout. Bibi is returning soon.
Hugh @ 7
That would be 1.5 cents?
Hey, Get Tough. What’s a Candadian hippie?
I know, I’m just kidding.
BTW, everyone should take a look at page 2 of Patrick Fitzgerald’s sentencing memorandum in Scooter Libby’s case. Check this out:
“It was apparent from early in the investigation that classified information relating to a covert intelligence agent had been disclosed without authorization. Also early in the investigation, investigators learned the identities of three officials–Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage, Senior Adviser to the President Karl Rove, and Mr. Libby, the Vice-President’s Chief of Staff–who had disclosed information regarding Ms. Wilson’s CIA employment to reporters.”
President Karl Rove?
Or how a comma went into a coma that produced a president. You know, kind of like a virgin birth.
I guess that’s what a congressional condemnation can do when consumer advocacy groups tell the oil industry to stop gouging American auto drivers..
Whee, 1.5 pennies. Thank you, losers - I think I’ll have enough for a double cheeseburger in about two months!
“Israel is nostalgic for it’s most dangerous leader”
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/863400.html
TJ @ 40
Somebody was probably hoping you’d only notice that the price was lower. Arithmetic is a level of critical thinking that is not encouraged in American political culture.
Mason @ 41
Somebody who stayed home to dodge the draft?
Get Tough @ 19
It is Bush’s fault. The neocon machine has been orchestrating and laying the groundwork for this takeover for a long time (at least since Clarence Thomas’ installation as a SC justice), and the Senate should have been able to resist the hysterical view engineered by Rove that not giving Bush permission to go to war would be ‘unpatriotic’. But it is still Bush’s fault. Blaming an entire generation that includes Al Gore and the Clintons (as well as many of us here at the Lake) only points to the fact that most currently active politicians fall into this age group. (And I agree, generation labels are stupid.)
Rockefeller, of course, voted yes on the AUMF. He later apologized, but only after the war had turned so bloody and chaotic that the political winds had changed.
On behalf of the hundreds of thousands of people dead and maimed, thanks Rocky!
Please forgive me for catching up with the last thread here.
It would seem to me that Mrs. Ashcroft would be the appropriate person to testify as to the phone calls she received and what was said in her presence. Should we be calling Leahy to encourage that?
30 years from now I don’t think there will be a Bush Presidential Library; but there should be a GWBush wing at the Holocaust museum.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 32
Timmeh sure did hit all the Republican talking points, and came across as the tool that he has become. And I used to like him.
TJ @ 48
I’m a firm believer in less is more. I think her testimony would be anticlimactic. It would be difficult to equal or top the effect of Comey’s. I might consider calling Ashcroft, but probably wouldn’t for the same reason.
I wonder if things would be better had the U.S. government continued to pursue a vigorous Israeli-Palestinian peace settlement after former President Carter left office? And I’m not interested in hearing about President Clinton’s failures along these lines.
TJ @ 40
That’s right. It’s not a lot but does represent a change, at least for the moment, in the trajectory of prices. I’m a believer that this whole recent price spike was manufactured by the oil companies, some of it has been long term non-investment in refinery capacity but a lot of it was a suspicious series of scheduled and unscheduled maintenance outages that took place at an unusual point in the seasonal energy cycle.
Jo Fish @ 35
At least it might have made it more difficult for the neocons to steal the election.
spurious @ 51
MTP is where the rethugs go to control their message. I stopped watching a long time ago.
The Monsignor is irrelevant.
Bill Richardson has a new ad.
is that a “nod” to Feith or something?
EvilDrPuma @ 45
Touche (I can’t figure out how to put the accent on the e)
Nice one, EvilDrPuma. Touche.
Hugh @ 54
I agree. And it has been aided greatly by Bush’s manipulation of the national oil reserve.
What’s up with Rockefeller releasing the report on a Friday, a three day weekend no less, when 38 million people are on the road.
Not to mention the day after a critical vote on war funding?
Propagandee—Friday news dump. We were waiting for something big, precisely because it was a 3 day weekend.
as to the release date—could be just a mistake. But there is an argument among PR/media pros that says releasing it then offers the chance that it would get written about for several days–because there is no other news.
the mere fact that Big Punkin reviled Richardson with GOPuke talking points shouldn’t (in my humble opinion) be taken to make Richardson a martyr…
richardson’s a tough sumbitch, but he’s also a bully and a serial spousal abuser (according to folks in santa fe in a position to know)…
his main draw-back, to me, izzat he’s a latifundista, a big-money/big-land, mexican aristocrat with deep familial ties to the PRI and all its attendant problems with cronieism and corruption…not to mention his father’s ties to big oil and big money…
.
.
the problem with your analysis is that those of us members of the boomer gen who DID follow the counter-culture have records too spotty and chequered to withstand the scrutiny now iimposed on aspirants for higher office; and those of us who didn’t (frankly, the large majority) are the folks like Hilary, Clenis, Bush, Gonzo, et al, who just went after the BEEEEG money, and are too thoroughly corrupted by that experience to be trusted with that much power…
that is true, too, however, of the subsequent generations, and Obama is no frackin paragon of ethics or probity, owing–as he does–at least half his soul to Cargill and ADM
/
Right on, Spurious. Did anyone read Krugman last week about the lack of reinvestment of these killer profits? It was posted in the Lake, I think. These yahoos aren’t reinvesting their profits in infrastructure, but rather balooning the portfolios of CEOs and select hedge funds. Any time these supply-siders start talking about investment in infrastructure versus government regulation, I like to cite Krugman’s article ( I like going into the Wolf’s den on occasion and raising a ruckus). We need a Roosevelt to bust these robber barons up. We need Blumenthal and Spitzer on the national stage.
Kevster @ 56
He is very irritating. But I do like that candidates have to talk for a full hour.
Nine died on Thursday.
Six died on Friday.
Ten died on Satruday.
Three died today.
WHY?
Twain @ 68
unlucky?
Mason wrote at #42:
Mason @ 42
Well, no comma required there between title and proper name, so no coma. Given what we know about the importance of said Adviser to the President, though, it does catch the eye.
TheOtherWA @ 12
The anchors and star reporter are all at the Vineyard this week. No new news until they get back
egregious @ 62
So he should have held it until Tuesday morning.
wgg: tokin lib’rul @ 64
Too bad. His view of the middle east seemed refreshingly educated, and I found a lot to agree with in his approach to immigration. Didn’t care for his views on assault weapons, though.
TexBetsy @ 72
To get the Repugs to vote the report out of committee, he probably had to work with their timeline. Just a thought
Wordsmith @ 1
She is indeed! Go, Christy, Go!!!!
Thanks,
Bob in HI
wgg: token lib’rul. I don’t mean to get on the Boomers. Your generation has done the most in the shortest time than any other in American history (such, as it is). I just would like to see more of what I believe the Boomers are all about: social progressive ideals, individual rights, multiculturism and quasi-secularism. That is what this country needs, and is about. Not the Blue Dogs and not the Clintons. But too often we are relegated to the backroom because we get bullied by the so-called “right” and “moderates” (who are really conservatives of yesteryear) just slink away to fight another day.
As for the checkered past situation, that is a direct result of the paradigm shift to the right on the political spectrum over the last 30 years. As the Boomers have gotten older, naturally Boomers have gotten more “conservative” (I am sure everyone in here knows the Churchill quote), and I think have lost the edge in the cultural wars. Does anyone have a more checkered past than a draft-dodging, habitual cocaine abusing, less than C average student, cheerleader we have as a president right now? I am simply stating that you progressives had it right; that is what this country is about. The New Deal works. Government regulation is a necessity. Social liberlism is what this country is about. I will get off my soapbox now.
Very much worth reading, a piece by Andrew Bacevich, historian, who lost a son this month in Iraq. It brings the responsibility home to even those in Congress who voted against the supplemental, asking them to do more.
“…Money buys access and influence. Money greases the process that will yield us a new president in 2008. When it comes to Iraq, money ensures that the concerns of big business, big oil, bellicose evangelicals and Middle East allies gain a hearing. By comparison, the lives of U.S. soldiers figure as an afterthought.
Memorial Day orators will say that a G.I.’s life is priceless. Don’t believe it. I know what value the U.S. government assigns to a soldier’s life: I’ve been handed the check. It’s roughly what the Yankees will pay Roger Clemens per inning once he starts pitching next month.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....32_pf.html
Who needed an intelligence report? Anybody, anybody with the most basic understanding of history could tell before it began that the US misadventure in Iraq was going to be a disaster. I’m NOT an historian, I’m a science-fiction reading technology nerd, and I knew before it started that getting involved in Iraq would be a disaster.
What more clues does one need? Afghanistan helped end the Soviet Union; India helped end the British Empire; hell, even Vizzini from ‘The Princess Bride’ classified “Never get involved in a land war in Asia” as the number one classic blunder.
No, the Congress cannot legitimately claim that they were misinformed about the facts in Iraq. They were, but that doesn’t excuse them for capitulating to this idiot-president’s Iraq ambitions.
Congress abdicated their responsibility when they authorized this war, and they had all the information they needed to predict that getting involved in Iraq would be a dreadful idea. I only hope the United States can survive the consequences of their negligence.
Dru @ 50
Wrong! The Bush family is negotiation with Michael Jackson in order to purchase and move all of the Neverland Ranch buildings, petting zoo, and amusement park rides to the Bush Brush Ranch. Michael Jackson doesn’t go there anymore and a Bush library is not going to be housing books and papers.
Through History’s Lenses, eh? Even cartoonists with a lot of time on their hands got the possible consequences of war with Iraq better than anyone in the Bush administration.
This was created in November 2002 - it looks like Mark Fiore’s work but I don’t think that’s who made it. Somebody sent it to me in December, 2002, and I sent it out to everybody I knew in the first three months of 2003 - the leadup period to the war.
Sad as it is, it is also quite hilarious.
I think a combination of arrogance and the political realization that sending hundreds of thousands of troops to Iraq to keep the peace after invasion would have hurt the Bush administration’s deceptive case for going into Iraq. They don’t give a sh*t about the troops, only their own marketing plan.
Sick, disgusting people in the White House. BARF!!!
- Tom
Wordsmith @ 5
Well, some folks think so.
Bob in HI
Prime the Pump!
Get Tough @ 76
Nothing wrong with soapboxes, but you are lumping an awful lot of people into one category. The ‘boomer’ generation, as you call it, includes everyone born between 1946 and 1964, but within that 18-year period there are a lot of sub-generations and widely varying socio-geographical environments. Lumping all these people together politically is problematic.
Get Tough @ 76
Some of us have moved on to other issues to exercise our new social order. I chose Organics, and there are quite a few SDS, Zippies and Back to the Landers who’s goal has been to change the face of Agriculture in the world. But now we have to do battle with GMO’s and it’s analogous to the Bush administration. Products approved by a small group that answers to big Ag. USDA is owned my Monsanto, if a person at USDA were to question the safety of GMO’s there would lose their job.
But many in the Organic cannot be considered for the federal National Organics Standards Board, due to their rap sheets form the Vietnam era. It’s just a fact.
Good afternoon, all.
Great posts today, Christy.
I just thought I’d drop in quickly between work & a child’s birthday party to see what’s up at the lake. I also thought I’d share this statistic I heard on CBS radio this morning:
Since Memorial Day 2006, over 1,000 U.S. soldiers have been killed in Iraq.
Like many of you, I pray that we bring our troops home before Memorial Day 2008.
This weekend, let’s remember all of our fallen military men and women from every conflict America has faced, and let’s keep their families in our hearts.
Albatross @ 78
Amen. And they all made speeches about why they didn’t want to vote for it, and then voted for it anyway.
Not sure if this has been highlighted here at FDL, but this video made me tear up.
http://www.crooksandliars.com/.....mencement/
I’m increasingly hopeful with future generations after seeing this kind of activity. The war criminals, let’s just say Repubelickins in general, keep thinking they’re pulling wool of America’s eyes since their messaging still dominates the media, and Shrub was “elected” again. Well, the UMass graduation was really a thing of beauty. Make sure you watch the longer, updated version.
UMass gave Andrew Card an honorary degree, and the place just erupted in booing and signs, even on stage. They couldn’t even carry on with his part of the ceremony. People, especially younger people, are really aware of who the crooks are and what they do. Absolutely beautiful.
wgg: tokin lib’rul @ 69
I call bullshit on “unlucky” They were killed by this fucking madman in the WH
I agree with you, again, spurious. I use the term loosely, and only as a reference. But I harken back to the Time magazine cover a year (months?) ago with George W. on the cover, and proclaiming, “the Boomers are 60!” It had most of the usual suspects (and liza minelli (sp?), good to see she is getting some work, albeit a magazine cover). In general terms, Time (I know, no authority on anything, really) stated that the Boomers, once proud torchbearers for the counterculture, are now as “conservative” as their parents’ generation. As I have parused the well-informed and wholly enlightened posters in the Lake, I only hope that the post-WWII generation/Boomers have some proverbial gas in the tank for the stretch run, and can pass on what the county stands for to the next generations, and not what this current crop of “conservatives” have constructed.
Wil @ 88
they are victims of the busheviks’ insane blood-lust…of course…
but they, like any casualty in combat, were also unlucky…
just sayin’
/
Jane’s upstairs taking down Rahm.
From the Boston Globe, GOP wankers all:
Wanker Link
Wil @ 88
you’re quite right: they are victims of the busheviks’ blood lust…
that said, anybody killed in combat is, pretty much by definition, unlucky–cuz, of course, there were all those folks who didn’t get killed…
they were the lucky ones…
.
Pfft - and you think I got mine right! ;)
wgg: tokin lib’rul @ 90
Just sayin’ they should have never fucking been there. My dad is a combat vet, my step-dad is a combat vet and my ex is a combat vet - I find “unlucky” to have been killed in an illegal, immoral war a tad offensive
new thread
I was stuck listening to NPR this morning. NPR has become a rightwing spin machine like all the other media outlets.
LeeAnn Hansen was interviewing Rockefeller about the report and relentlessly hammering him with Rovian talking points to the point where I just turned it off. I miss the old days when you could listen to PBS and NPR. Even if we eventually run all the turncoat rats like LeeAnn Hansen out of public radio, I will never trust them again.
FYI, Jane is upstairs and I see a HUGE problem.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 18
damn-straight.
there are two very worthy reads
on the opinion pages on all of this
this morning — and, i have sourced
two recent photos — one of a dis-
tinguishedly graying professor; the
other, his solid, square-jawed son,
with his unit, in iraq. . . seeing
these two, and reading the opinion. . .
well — just go see it. . .
then read the whole of the opinions
at the sources linked. . .
p e a c e
ps: indeed — why did rockefeller bury
it this weekend? i understand it relates
to war dead — and thus memorial day, but
it is getting so very little play. . .
s h e s s h. . .
My questions are ” Who got the reports?” and “Did anyone read them?”
Because if they were read, it would have been impossible to vote for the war.
Get Tough @ 89
You said it yourself, Time is no authority on anything. It will be a good start if younger people will at least vote, and hopefully inform themselves on the issues before they do. This administration’s success would not have been possible without massive apathy and willful ignorance on the part of a huge number of people.
you’re right…they never should have been there in the first place…
just as with the poor sumbitches got killed in Nam 40 years ago: shouldnt have been there…a lotta folks were lucky and dint hafta go (i was not among that happy lot, myself)…
.
Chauncey Gardner @ 97
You mean National Public Relations? The changeover happened quite some time ago, but the positive is that any money you would ever give to them, you can now give to places like FDL. If you like this “new media,” make it stronger, and get everyone you know reading and listening to it.
BTW, remember that,
“As long as the roots are not severed, all is well. And all will be well in the garden.” (I use that name sometimes on blogs also)
Ol’ Chauncey is more appropiate then ever nowadaze…
Christy, love the post. I got a boss. I think she’s crazy and unqualified to do her job. And she’s crazy in all sorts of ways. but the link I would make is between her and GWB and anyone else who grab at positions of power but hardly ever see them as jobs to be administered. She seems to be uncomfortable if the work environment is stable and the status quo is adequate for things to run smoothly. On a daily basis, she creates chaos or perhaps I should say that she needs to extend the chaos in her head to everyone that she has control over. You could say she suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder. For some time, America, as represented to the world by its government, seems to behave in the same way. It is uncomfortable unless it is creating chaos. I think boredom and stability are threatening (to the politicians) and we go about stirring the pot. The covert and overt destabilization of the third world, this absurd need to politically evangelize American style “freedom and democracy” to all other cultures and fighting wars and military incursions that are nothing other than phony misdirection so that the inadequacies of our so called leaders are not recognized. Narcissistic Personality Disorder is epidemic in this country and those that suffer from it are running the show.
Imagine being a judge and having as a defendant a man charged with negligent homicide. The defendant says, yes, your honor, I explicitly told my people to open the dam’s floodgates. Yes, your honor, that was after all my engineers told me that if I did that, the dam would crack, the valley would be inundated, and thousands would die. Of course, we didn’t tell anybody before we did it. In fact, we told them it would be OK, to enjoy their Memorial Day picnics at home.
Yes, your honor, I fired a whole shift of my employees because they wouldn’t open the gates. I hid the engineers’ reports, and threatened to fire them and my lawyers if they leaked the contents.
No, your honor, I’m not an engineer and have no training in science or emergency services. I studied history, and spent a few years in government and bidness. But I’m a confident guy and I know when to take advice and when to ignore it. I ignored it.
No, your honor, executives don’t kill people. Neither do their companies. The water killed people who were foolish enough to live in their little green valley. I can’t be held accountable for their choices. Everything I do or say is about company policy. I can’t be held accountable for company policies or actions; that’s why they call it a “limited liability company”.
Well, says the judge. I’m a confident woman, I went to law school and practiced as a lawyer and judge for over twenty years, and I do know the law. I suggest you put your affairs in order because you’re going to have a few years in prison with nothing better to do than ponder why you think you’re smart and how much you don’t really want to drop the soap.
Before I decide how many years that will be, I’ll spend some time listening to the engineers you didn’t pay attention to, the employees you fired and threatened to fire, and the families of those who used to live in that little green valley you flooded. Then we’ll have another chat, Dick.
I’ll bet most of you were enthusiastic supporters of Bill Clinton’s military cuts.
You fight the war with army you have when the war comes. The war came on 9.11 and we should be in Syria and Iran right now.
One would aspire to think and believe the U.S.Senate,100 people given in the American form of government very large swaths of power to form, move and reform the process of close oversight,governance and consequence follow-up would do this with integrity,honor and sober,scaled judgement. If 100 Americans elected to the American Senate cannot do this who can in America today?
Pat Roberts displayed a venal willingness to delay and not do what was right. He should be fully scorned/dishonored for it too. This guy,one out of 100,was/is a disgrace to himself and the American people. But he sadly is part of a large group of American Senators who seem to be largely unable or unwilling to do what is right,strive to be honest or to exercise the position of U.S.Senator to the lasting and real benefit of Americans domestically or internationally. This is the greater disgrace.
It should be plainly evident that G.W.Bush and Dick Cheney should have been curbed,reprimanded and brought to a short leash very early on over their views and desires over Iraq. That this did not happen fully led and still leads all Americans to a very bad outcome in Iraq,the ME and then throughout the world.
This is the genesis of the Iraq debacle and more tragic outcomes still to come for all Americans. When 100 fully empowered,fully vested Americans fail to conduct their office/position with ethical,moral and political honesty,integrity and farsighted wisdom it points to an America that does not deserve to do well in the world and will not do well in the world.
The human debacle that now is Iraq is the result of terrible decision making,terrible desires and terrible levels of dishonesty and rampant run-amok American militarism.
Americans should stop telling themselves how we were the moral betters of Germany and Japan in WW2. Because we are no different now.
Don’t trust Rockefeller. He’s one of my senators, and he’s as DLC/Corporatist as they come. His main interest (ala RG Joe L.) appears to be just keeping his cozy seat. He’s *certainly* not listening to his Democratic constituents, at all, at all. He couldn’t have buried the lede any better on the Iraq quagmire prediction if he’d been, ah, I dunno… PAID to or something.
Propagandee @ 61
Can you say Good Cop/Bad Cop? Seems they’re still on the same team. Hey Rocky, How many subpoenas has your committee issued?
Pelosi 2007 or start the Velour Revolution!
New Senate Report Is Worst Betrayal Yet:
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/22933
Oklahoma kiddo @ 53
It’s certainly been confusing, hasn’t it.
One thing to always recall is that we have two major political parties and the ways they run foreign policy are as different as the ways they run domestic policy. Add the strange, but idealistic, idea that our foreign policy should be bi-partisan and you end up in some strange places.
Our policies to be a ‘fair broker’ between Palestinians and Israel has led us to small wars with Libya and Lebanon (during Reagan’s time), Afghanistan to help the mujahideen fight Soviets, almost to Bosnia under Clinton, to Kosovo, perhaps Chechnya and to the Persian Gulf war to liberate and protect Kuwait monarchs. It’s definately been a strange journey.
Then, add on top of that the general idea that after the Soviet Union fell we’d need a new Hitler to oppose, so our military-industrial-congressional complex could flouish and it leads to the major secular powers of the Islamic world whom we could depose in order to be a ‘fair broker’/supporter of the Islamic countries (including Iran). This is complicated by our support of Saddam’s war effort against Iran. It appears we were playing both sides against one another for our own gain.
Now we’ve deposed Hitler, er uh, Saddam and Iran will likely play a large role in establishing the new Shia-majority government in Iraq. This isn’t an awful thing in and of itself. Of course, the Israelis might disagree. But, stability and order, even if Sharia-like, is to be preferred to unending bloodletting and anarchy.
This complex multi-layered foreign policy is something amazing to behold and in that context I don’t think it’s always useful for Carter to focus so narrowly on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but it’s hard to disagree with him.
Where things get ugly is when the Republican administrations begin using wars and trickery to advance the foreign policy while stuffing their own pockets with money. Perhaps the ugliest was the original arms for hostages deal with Iran (brokered by Israelis). Disgusting.
I think Clinton advanced the policy, but was wise to avoid too much involvement in the focal point around Israel. His late effort failed because of the mess Palestinians called a government. In light of their duplicity and double-dealing we ended up ending discussions with them and letting Israel slaughter ‘em. It was a de facto invitation to war when Arafat took the deal offered to his “government” and they rejected it. I don’t think they’ve done too well in this one-sided war and they ought to reconsider the deal.
What’s next? Well, we’ve got a dilemma, don’t we? On the one hand we’re trying to be a fair broker, but on the other we’re using events for profit and we’re currently letting Israel slaughter anybody they choose. I think the next step is to complete the Green Line ‘wall’ and to simply prevent Al Qaeda (if it isn’t just a CIA front) from stirring up trouble and let the Islamic world decide how they’re going to step up to the plate and find a way to peace. It’s in their hands if they want it. Otherwise there’s simply going to be blood in the streets. It’s tragic, but inevitable. [ See also, IRA v. UK. ]
Twain @ 68
V.P. Cheney has other priorities and
President Bush is serving in the White House (where it’s safe).
What more could you want from those guys?
This is what comes from having insane, greedy corporatists in the White House running (and ruining) our foreign policy.
Bush’s Iraq War just represents a “hostile takeover” of a competing corporate interest. In the case, the country of Iraq, run by Saddam Hussein, with oil being it’s major “corporate” asset.
So, just like in any corporate “hostile takeover” of another corporation, the goal of Bush’s Iraq War was to invade Iraq, depose Saddam Hussein, secure Iraq’s major asset (oil), and to hell with all the little people lower in the corporate food chain…that is, to hell with the Iraqi people.
Once Bush and Cheney supplanted Saddam Hussein and planted one of their corporate flunkies in Baghdad to rule Iraq, then Iraqi citizens would either bow to their new “corporate” masters, or leave.
In other words, Bush and Cheney, being corporatist warhawks have a “hostile takeover” mentality. So, what the hell would they care about warnings that their “hostile takeover” of Iraq would lead to what the intelligence analysts predicted would happen? The “hostile takeover” of Iraq was the only consideration on Bush and Cheney’s corporatist calendar.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 10
My belief is that many, including John Kerry and Hillary Clinton, allowed cynical political calculation to override their duty to vote their consciences and serve the interests of the public at large. They were obviously too clever for their own good. The supreme irony is that, had they voted their consciences and opposed the war, they would be now be flipping heroes. Sic transit gloria mundi.
The Real Sporer @ 106
Looney Tunes.
The hell in Iraq was completely predictable! Indeed it was. Iaea’s El Baradei, Scott Ritter, Madeline Albright, Jimmy Carter, Zbigniew Brezenski, CIA analyst, Flynt Leverett and many many more warned against the illegal invasion and questioned the validity of the intelligence. Diane Rehms, Amy Goodman, Neil Conan had many of these people on their programs prior to the invasion.
Now if you were watching only the main main stream media outlets. All one saw or heard was Cheney, Bush, Bill Kristol, Rice, Wolfowitz, Perle, Reuel Marc Gerecht, Micheal Rubin, Ledeen repeating the lies about WMD’s, fearmongering “mushroom clouds, smoking gun” etc. It was easy to understand why many Americans were convinced that Iraq had something to do with 9/11 (Cheney is still repeating these lies) and posessed WMD’s.
Although when Senator Hillary Clinton and others say “if only we knew then what we know now” I say horseshit! That is unless they were given other “false” intelligence which the public was not privy to.
Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi people and Americans are now dead and injured. Millions in Iraq are displaced due to our invasion of Iraq. Holding those responsible for creating and dessiminating this false intelligence is the very least that our reps can do for those who have needlessly lost their lives in this illegal and immoral war of choice!
The whole world is watching. PHASE II OF THE SENATE SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE PLEASE!
The American public was led to believe that the Silberman/Robb report and Phase I of the SSCI had examined all of the “alleged” false pre-war intelligence. We know it was not.
Republican Senator Pat Roberts did everything is his power to divert and delay the most critical investigations and findings of Phase II of the SSCI!
The Pentagons’s Inspector General calling the use of false intelligence by Feith and others “inappropriate” is a slap on the hand! Let’s hope we witness more serious repercussions for those with yellow cake all over their faces and Iraqi and American blood up to their necks!
We are waiting for those responsible for the false intelligence to be held accountable.
GabrielOak @ 113
Kerry, Clinton and others who have repeated “if only we knew then what we know now” hogwash will pay the consequences of their unwillingness to come clean.
When Gore announces that he will be running for President this fall…he will take Clinton out based on Gore’s consistent and honorable stand against the invasion.
Run Al Run!
spurious @ 22
A friend who has been to Iraq 6 times over the last four years has shared that many of the Iraqi people believe chaos in Iraq is just what the “cakewalk in Iraq” zealots wanted. The U.S.’s “Sabra and Shatilla”. Create an enviroment by taking the lid off the Religious hatred where ethnic killings can take place, and millions of refugees are the result. Micheal “creative destruction” “fucking drowning in blood” Micheal Ledeen, Micheal Rubin, Bolton, Perle, Rhode, Cheney, Feith, etc. could care less about Iraqi lives.
The Israel/Oil/ crowd have a price to pay for all of this unnecessary death and destruction!