This keeps up, and I'm going to need more coffee. Michael Isikoff and Evan Thomas have quite the interesting article in Newsweek, but it requires a closer read because there is some connect the dots that needs to be done and several points where obvious information is, inadvertantly I'm sure, omitted where it is very important to know it in order to fully understand the quote and/or the particulars. Thought I'd walk through the article a bit and show you what I mean.
So consider these scenes from March 2004, described by two former top Justice officials who, like other ex-officials interviewed by NEWSWEEK, did not wish to be identified discussing sensitive internal matters. Attorney General John Ashcroft is really sick. About to give a press conference in Virginia, he is stricken with pain so severe he has to lie down on the floor. Taken to the hospital for an emergency gallbladder operation, he hallucinates under medication as he lies, near death, in intensive care. On the night after his operation, he has two visitors: White House chief of staff Andrew Card and presidential counsel Alberto Gonzales. As described in public testimony, they want Ashcroft to sign a document authorizing the government's top-secret eavesdropping program to go on. The attorney general, who thinks the program is illegal, refuses.
Back at the Justice Department, there is an equally extraordinary scene. Appalled by the White House's heavy-handed attempt to coerce the gravely ill attorney general, virtually the entire top leadership of the Justice Department is threatening to resign. The group includes the director of the FBI, Robert Mueller, Associate Attorney General Robert McCallum and the chief of the Criminal Division, Chris Wray. Some of them gather in the conference room of Deputy Attorney General James Comey, who describes Ashcroft's bravely turning away the president's men from his hospital bed. The mood that night in the conference room was tense—and sober. "This was a showdown," says a former senior Justice Department official who was there. "Everybody understood the choice they were making and the gravity of the situation. Everybody knew what the stakes were." A different source estimated that as many as 30 top DOJ officials would have resigned.
The next day Comey is summoned to the White House to meet with President Bush. The details remain murky. But it takes two weeks before a compromise is reached—averting the spectacle of mass resignation by putting more legal controls on the eavesdropping program.
Well, isn't THAT interesting, if accurate? Not only was there a threat of mass resignations at the DOJ, according to the article, once the WH end-run of the FISA court was learned about — which suggests that the WH actions on this were closely held among Presidential cronies until this showdown with Ashcroft and Comey at the hospital blew that out of the water among the professional class at the upper echelons of the DoJ and the FBI. But wait, there's more:
Under oath (and given immunity from prosecution), she seemed shy and a little overwhelmed, more Rosemary Woods than Madame Defarge, although she never got rattled or resorted to histrionics. Wringing her hands beneath the witness table, she acknowledged that she may have improperly used political considerations to choose career prosecutors. "I crossed the line," she said, taking a deep breath, a Christian girl who succumbed to temptation. Carefully prepared by a shrewd lawyer, John Dowd, she suggested, almost in passing, that Gonzales may have crossed another line by discussing with her his account of how the U.S. attorneys were fired. The implication was that Gonzales had been subtly trying to coach her testimony. "I just thought maybe we shouldn't have that conversation," she said.If Goodling's testimony helps to bring down Gonzales, a distinct possibility, President Bush will be exposed to more questions and dragged into a messy confirmation battle over Gonzales's successor. And so Goodling, like Nixon's unfortunate secretary Rosemary Woods, may be destined to be a footnote in history—but an important one.
Goodling admitted checking the political donations of some job applicants before hiring them for jobs that are supposed to be apolitical. While crass, her actions did not threaten to bring down the re-public. Still, they are part of a broader and more troubling picture—a slow and stealthy erosion of the independence of the Justice Department. President Bush's personal involvement remains uncertain, as does the precise role of his chief political adviser, Karl Rove. Nonetheless, the clearest evidence of legal subversion comes not from congressional Democrats, but from once loyal Bush conservatives who worked at the Justice Department.
This is not, nor has it ever been, a partisan issue. This is about wrong and right — and what the folks who have attempted to subvert the justice department to a political machinations branch did not count on is that people who truly believe in the justice system will not sit back silently forever and watch. The question that keeps coming up, over and over, in my mind is this: the loyal Republicans who are coming forward now are the sort of people, in at least several cases to my knowledge, who would have come forward at the first signs of problems, at least to others in the GOP who might have had some influence to demand changes.
Coming forward to, say, the chairmen of the Senate and House Judiciary Committees with their substantial concerns. Except, at the time this was all occurring, who they had to depend on to then turn around and perform their constitutional duty of oversight were Arlen Specter and James Sensenbrenner. And, as Sensenbrenner opened his yap to brag in last week's Goodling hearing, he didn't find anything worthy of issuing a subpoena over for accountability questions of the Bush Administration during his tenure in the power chair at the House. Say hello to accountability and integrity in the Age of Bush.
And then there is this:
Yoo was increasingly seen as a rogue operator inside the Justice Department. Officials were suspicious of his ties to David Addington, counsel to Vice President Cheney. The vice president's office took a hard-line view that the executive branch should not be trammeled in the war on terror by legislators and bureaucrats. Yoo was "out of control," recalled a former Ashcroft aide. Almost without exception, this conflict stayed behind closed doors. (Yoo declined to respond on the record, but he has told others that Ashcroft was fully briefed by him and approved his memos, and that his critics are now engaged in creative "Monday-morning quarterbacking.")
The bad feelings seemed to come to a head in 2003, when there was a vacancy to head OLC. At the White House, Gonzales wanted Yoo, and was so insistent that he took the matter to Bush. According to the former Ashcroft aide who did not want to openly discuss matters involving the president, Bush was surprised to learn that Ashcroft opposed Yoo as a renegade. A compromise was reached: a conservative lawyer named Jack Goldsmith was put in charge of OLC.
But the fight was really just beginning. Carefully reviewing Yoo's carte blanche memos, Goldsmith became convinced that the Justice Department had been signing off on memos approving initiatives, like wiretapping and water boarding, that were not legally supportable. Goldsmith took the matter to Ashcroft's deputy, Comey, and to Patrick Philbin, Comey's No. 2. Philbin's sterling conservative legal résumé tracked Yoo's—they had both clerked for Justice Clarence Thomas at the U.S. Supreme Court. But Philbin and Goldsmith were adamant. The Justice Department could no longer sign off on the wiretapping program, which had been expanded to wiretap more U.S. residents. "This was not ideological," recalled a former Ashcroft aide. "This was about the difference between pushing the limits to the edge of the line and crossing the line."
Bush's role has remained shadowy throughout the controversy over the eavesdropping program. But there are strong suggestions that he was an active presence. On the night after Ashcroft's operation, as Ashcroft lay groggy in his bed, his wife, Janet, took a phone call. It was Andy Card, asking if he could come over with Gonzales to speak to the attorney general. Mrs. Ashcroft said no, her husband was too sick for visitors. The phone rang again, and this time Mrs. Ashcroft acquiesced to a visit from the White House officials. Who was the second caller, one with enough power to persuade Mrs. Ashcroft to relent? The former Ashcroft aide who described this scene would not say, but senior DOJ officials had little doubt who it was—the president. (The White House would not comment on the president's role.) Ashcroft's chief of staff, David Ayres, then called Comey, Ashcroft's deputy, to warn him that the White House duo was on the way. With an FBI escort, Comey raced to the hospital to try to stop them, but Ashcroft himself was strong enough to turn down his White House visitors' request.
The morning after the scene at Ashcroft's hospital bed, the president met with Comey. "We had a full and frank discussion, very informed. He was very focused," Comey later testified, choosing his words carefully. But it wasn't until Bush had met with Mueller that the president agreed to take steps (still unspecified, but probably involving more oversight) to bring the eavesdropping program back inside the boundaries of the law. Mueller has never said what he told the president, but it is a good bet that he said he would resign if the changes were not made. Bush could not afford to see Mueller go, nor could he risk losing the rest of the Justice Department leadership over a matter of principle in an election year.
The confrontation over the eavesdropping program "seared" the relationship between the White House and Ashcroft's team at Justice, according to a former senior Justice official. Within months, many of the top officials had resigned or started making plans to do so. Solicitor General Ted Olson was the first to go that summer. On Election Day 2004, Ashcroft—sensing that he would not be asked to stay for a second term—personally wrote his letter of resignation, and Bush promptly tapped Gonzales to replace him. Comey announced his resignation the next summer.
It is telling that the plans that Rove had for the Department of Justice couldn't even be stomached by a conservative operative and ideologue like Ted Olsen, isn't it? Did President Bush force his aides into the sickroom of his Attorney General to try and force his delerious and medicated hand to sign-off on a program he had already informed him was illegal? And, if so, how sickened are you now?
But it is this particular part of the article that really pissed me off. It suggests that sly slip-in of so-called balance, without any regard to honesty on the facts or full disclosure to the public, and it is incredibly sloppy in an otherwise straightforward piece.
Goodling's only crime was her lack of subtlety, said Mark Corallo, the Justice Department's chief of public affairs under Ashcroft, and Goodling's onetime boss. "She probably was a little too overt about it," Corallo told NEWSWEEK. "But let's face it—the Democrats do this, too, they all do it. The idea that career employees are above politics is total crap. The so-called career employees are mostly liberal Democrats." He noted that in the U.S. Attorney's Office in San Francisco, career employees refused for months to hang portraits of Bush, Cheney and Ashcroft.
Still, there were some former Justice officials who took a loftier view. One of them was Comey. Every day, he told the House Judiciary Committee, prosecutors must argue cases before juries of all political stripes; if they are seen as little more than political apparatchiks, it will be the death knell for many legitimate cases. To him, the charge that prosecutors were being picked for their politics was the "worst" allegation he had heard yet about the Justice Department. "If that's what was going on," he said, "that strikes at the core of what the Department of Justice is." Or was.
Morak Corallo is and always has been a PR flack and political operative for the Republican party. He was primarily an official at the DOJ doing PR for them, not having substantial prosecutorial or investigative responsibilities. And using him as a public rebuttal quote gives him a legitimacy that he has neither earned nor deserves in terms of constitutional or legal commentary. Further, he has been and remains a PR flack for Karl Rove, who has a substantial interest in how the DOJ story is spun publicly, given that his fetid fingerprints are all over the behind-the-scenes aide machinations eminating from his office in the WH.
That Isikoff and Thomas don't even bother mentioning this is beyond lazy. Worse, they slip in the snotty "some former Justice officials who took a loftier view," insinuating as they have previously on the attempted portrayal of Pat Fizgerald as a "boy scout" that there is something downright quaint about officials at the Department of Justice demanding that the rule of law be upheld. Perhaps it was meant to be a comparison in tone and, if so, Corallo does come off as quite the crass GOP aparatchik who would justify any piss poor conduct by blaming someone else for doing it first. But the double entendre potential on this pissed me off.
Hello, fellas, it is the Department of Justice. Of course they want the rule of law to be followed to the letter — that is their job. Just because you have some jaded view from wading through the sewer that is the Beltway doesn't mean that the rest of the folks who spent a lifetime working their asses off outside that stinking gutter don't still remember that the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the laws of the land are more than simply pieces of paper to be brushed aside when they are deemed to be inconvenient or in the way of a good faux monarchy beachhead.
The fact that even conservatives are running away from the Bush-tainted DoJ in droves, and refusing to be considered for positions either at the Department itself or as USAs ought to be of great concern to all of us. (H/T TPM.) Prosecutions for criminal conduct must be undertaken with seriousness, and where positions remain unfilled, the communities that are meant to be served suffer. Everywhere. After reading through all of this, and considering that Rep. Conyers has asked for more testimony from Moschella and McNulty, and has expressed concerns about testimonial veracity questions about AG Gonzales as well, I can only say: more of this openness from folks who are fed up and disgusted, please. It is about damned time — because only full and complete sunshine on all of this is going to save the DoJ.
(Photo of some tasty looking cafe con leche y napolitana via Proggie.)
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is this thing working?
The toobz outta whack? Or is it me?
Thanks Christy!
the toobz back on?
Morning kids — we were having a server problem for a bit there, but I think it has been
beaten…er…tweaked back into submission.ah, ok — thanks Christy!
Good morning, Christy!
Nice to have you and the Lake back.
Leahy and Conyers know that the DOJ scandal is all about the White House. They need to get Karl’s turdly butt in front of their committees pronto. They are wasting time-get the subpoenas rolling and initiate the legal action that will be necessary to overcome the WH stonewalling. I am not happy with the pace of this-Bush thinks he can just run out the clock.
Get GOING!
And, by the way, where are all of Rove’s e-mails??? If Bushco wants to stick by their “the dog ate my homework” strategery, the Congress needs to come back with an impeachment proceeding. These bloody bastards need to be held to account for the sake of our republic.
The next time a GOP flak talks about “the rule of law” regarding behavior of a democrat, let’s throw the laundry list of Bush malfeasance in their face and tell them to STFU!.
In fraternities and crime famiies, there is the initiation into law-breaking that binds the small group together outside the norms of society.
Ashcroft, Comey et. al. didn’t “make their bones” by subverting the constitution, and in the values of the Bush White House, could not be trusted.
Reading this gave me that itchy feeling like waking up in a bed full of blood.
No one will comment in fear of getting an offer they can’t refuse.
This is by far the scariest movie I’ve ever seen.
Excellent post Christy. What a scandal! So glad that Newsweek is bringing it to the REST of America, the ones who didn’t have CSpan 3 up for days at a time.
Stella at 11 — The whole article is that way. I had to read the whole thing twice this morning and there are SO many questions left unanswered in it — and so little recourse to get answers outside the White House at this point. And they have not been talking.
The thing that I found most telling was that when faced with a threat of mass resignations from people whom the WH knew would absolutely follow through, Bush blinked and changed the program. It took two weeks, but it was changed. Which raises a whole other set of tactical questions in my mind about a whole range of issues and how they have been handled.
Great piece, Christy. As always.
You write:
There is no way to think of Michael Isikoff as a straight shooter. During Whitewater, he functioned as an orifice for Ken Starr to leak raw grand jury testimony onto the pages of Newsweek.
TexBetsy at 12 — Well, as I said above, it is Isikoff and Thomas. So, as always, take everything with some big grains of salt…but I do that with pretty much everything I read these days anyway. There is so much just simmering under the surface in all the reports lately, though, I can feel a whole host of issues ready to burst forth…and not just from DoJ. I think the enforced cronyism and self-dealing political dam is about to burst. At least, I hope it is. More sunshine please.
Christy, I wish this were in neon over the Washington Press Club.
In the sentence below, “delirious” may be more precise than “delusional” [ a delirium is a condition of fluctuating levels of consciousness (what Comey described in Ashcroft). a delusion is a fixed belief - not supported by cultural norms or subgroup norms - that cannot be supported by empirical reality. (the moon is made of green cheese).]
Apologies for nit-picking re diagnostic nomenclature.
Thanks, Kirk — I’ll fix it. This is why I always got medical experts in cases where that sort of thing needed explaining. *g*
The Bushies will stall, stall, stall until their plants in the DOJ can steal the next election.
Notice how the article describes the effect of the Comey intervention as bringing the programs back under the law — even though we have no evidence that was true and the President’s own statements that he continued a program of surveillance without warrants and outside the FISA courts’ oversight.
And what happened to the statutes/regulations — laws — that Goodie Goodie admits she violated — laws designed to prevent miscarriage of justice — are these trivial? And is it okay even if the corrosive Mark is right that “everybody does it?”
Awesome post, Christy.
Oh yeah the Dems are SO ready to do that –
NOT!!!
Christy writes:
Kinda like the notions that the government should serve ALL the people, that the least of us need support, and that “honor and integrity” are ideals to be strived for.
Of course, these are the same administration apologists that brought us the war in Iraq by refusing to fact check the selective leaks and were insulted that Stephen Colbert had the audacity to call BullSh*t on their a**es.
The difference between right and wrong. The difference between being in possession of principles and having no principles. And criminal investigations, prosecution and jail time with heavy fines for convicted offenders is what it has always been about. For me. On this issue, there exists no gray area.
Glorfindel @ 18
IF we the people let them.
kirk murphy @ 16
I see. So, the Republican party is delirious
while the Neocons are delusional.
Thank you for the clarification.
dakine01 @ 21
Kinda like the notions that the government should serve ALL the people, that the least of us need support, and that “honor and integrity” are ideals to be strived for.
Of course, these are the same administration apologists that brought us the war in Iraq by refusing to fact check the selective leaks and were insulted that Stephen Colbert had the audacity to call BullSh*t on their a**es.
I kinda like LOFTY in my justice department. Quaint old me.
Christy, there is something that has been troubling me all along through all of this, and you touched on it in the quote above. Could it be that key leaders in the House and Senate had active knowledge of what was going on — and were a party to covering it up? In other words, we had no government with checks and balances — only the Republican Party with Rove, Cheney, etc. pulling the strings. If people like Specter and Sensenbrenner knew in detail what was going on, it is only by sheer luck that this has come to light.
What it boils down to is this: Our entire government is part of a plan to destroy the United States as we have known it — and the Republican Party is behind it. I might add that I state this as a registered (moderate) Republican.
What’s the OLC?
sojourner @ 26
Wow. I hadn’t considered that. Maybe Mueller and Comey and others did talk with senators and congress critters about their concerns at the time and were told to lay low.
Actually Christy, I read the piece before your comments and got it all pretty clear, except that it missed out, and you haven’t commented upon, the fact that the hospital visit only happened because the man in charge in Ashcroft’s absence, AGA Comey, wouldn’t play ball, which I think is rather important.
OK maybe the word “loftier” is a bit arch, but they put Corallo in direct quotes, and I think you can see the authors knew that was no way to discuss such a serious issue.
Don’t be too greedy, it’s getting there gradually.
TexBetsy @ 25
You and me both, ma’am, you and me both.
I was raised in the world that said truth justice and the ‘Murikan way were good things. I lived through the H2Ogate morass and all the lies of ‘Nam. I will NOT allow these feckless idiots to destroy that which is good and noble about our land. “Everybody does it” has NEVER been an acceptable response at any time. I seem to recall my folks cautioning me that “if everybody is running off a cliff, does that mean you have to do it?” And they were correct.
Perhaps the piece that may play over the next few days is the revelation that it was not just a handful of top DoJ official, but up to 30 of them, who were prepared to resign. — that’s astounding.
But that also means that 30 people within DoJ knew enough about the illegal aspects and the thuggery to end their DoJ careers. Now contrast that with the argument the WH and Gonzales made that they could not have the DoJ’s inspector general (?) investigate the DoJ’s handling of the legality, because knowledge of the surveillance program was too tightly guarded among a tiny group of people and needed to remain so. So reporter needs to ask Tony snowjob about that Tuesday morning.
sojourner at 26 — You know, that has been troubling me as well all along, and I don’t know the answer. I do know that there were so many subversive little slip=ins that came from Specter’s office — such as the appintment without Senate approval on USAs from his chief of staff with the Patiot Act amendment, or Specter going back on his agreement and end-running Leahy on habeas in the MCA, and that’s for starters. But Sensenbrenner’s almost bragging comment, in the snearing tone of his, during the Goodling hearing really lit a fire for me to do some digging.
If I come up with anything concrete on this, you can bet I’ll be talking about it. And if anyone knows an avenue I ought to investigate, please let me know. If there was collusion between the WH and the GOP leadership in Congress on these issues…well, that’s pretty much unforgiveable in my book.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 17
No worries – happy to help :)
Scarecrow @ 31
EXCELLENT point.
I hope Waxman’s staffer are awake and reading this this morning. I think this will get Henry’s interest so it had better be on his desk Tuesday morning.
Christy, a great and passionate post, thank you!
TexBetsy @ 28
Well, I think we’ve seen that Snarlin’ Arlen is a windbag who caved at the first sign of trouble. And Senslessbrenner showed his colors once again last week. Party over country at all times…
Time is running short. Once the Bush people are gone no one will hardly care. Rise up lawyers of America. Do something!
kirk murphy @ 33
kirk — I was out yesterday and missed your thread, but the post was excellent. Thanks much.
This bit from the Newsweek article pisses me off:
In some ways, the squabbling over political appointments to the Justice Department seems small time, at least in comparison with the dramatic constitutional confrontations over wiretapping and torture.
The corrosion of the DOJ for partisan purposes is small time??
Nowhere in the piece do they mention what the DOJ has been doing under Bush and why it was so important to them to have only “loyal Bushies”. It is obvious that only the true believers would be willing to do Rove’s political bidding. This is an affront to me, not as a Democrat, but as an American citizen.
This is by no means a small time scandal.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 37
Hear, hear!
Kevster @ 39
That slant also just happens to divert attention away from the aspects directly involving Rove. But of course, Isikoff would never do that deliberately. Nah.
since the day of their installation in the ShiteHouse, the sole and only agenda of the Bushevik regime has been to attack, undermine, and if possible disable every and any instrument or institution of democratic republican self-government, along with the trust and confidence of the People, in order to deliver them as willing hostages to the corpoRatocracy of which the Regime was/is a necessary adjunct.
there is not a single institution of democratic self-govenance which they have not shat upon. NOT ONE!
and it is working brilliantly…
./
March 2004… gee wasn’t that a Presidential election year?
What kind of spying program would benefit Bush?
Oh gee….. maybe spying on Democrats and the whole DNC network?
Just add Spector and Hagel who sound independent BUT vote 97% with BushCo….
AND just what do they have on Sensenbrenner, McCain and Kyl to continually be the BushCo enablers….
Rove’s plan has always been 100 year BushCo rule using any method and means.
Scorched Earth is there MO
I think key Republicans found out what was going on in a very unpleasant way: if, as I and many others believe, the warrantless wiretapping by the Bushies included not only foreigners and suspected terrorists, but communications between U.S. citizens in this country, doesn’t it follow that Rove’s vaunted party discipline was perhaps at least partially enforced by blackmail with unsavory information gleaned from said wiretaps? I’m just asking…
this was destined for the previous thread, but is NOT irrelevant to the current discussion:
Bob Schacht @ 45
exposing dirty tricks is needful of course, but it hardly counts as a successful strategy, imho…
the GOPukes are masters of “The BIG Lie,” which works on the assumption that everybody lies, but usually about only minor stuff…the BIG Lie works because folks hearing it, and knowing their own proclivity to lie about little, but not really beeg stuff, believe it to be true. Then the BEEEEG lie is repeated, endlessly, so that it becomes part of the ‘common parlance.’
as the experiences with the BEEG Lie in Iraq have shown–wmd, saddam’s alqaeda links, reconstruction–it doesn’t MATTER that the contradictory information is available, or even public, as long as the BEEEG Lie is “out there,” cuz it can never really be rebutted as loudly or aas pervasively as it was promulgated…
Christy Hardin Smith @ 32
You said it much better than I could: collusion. And, that opens up such a can of rattlesnakes… There had to be knowledge of some of this on the legislative side to stanch the questions that might start arising. Except — you also have the congressional people who are walking in such lockstep with the White House. Maybe they know nothing but party loyalty — a party that is controlling their futures through the power of the purse. I read something last week about Rove threatening some Republican congressman with finding a stronger candidate to replace him in the next election, meaning the incumbent would suddenly find himself with no party support.
I just pray that someone will totally spill the beans soon — and these people will become an awful memory!
Scarecrow @ 41
That slant also just happens to divert attention away from the aspects directly involving Rove. But of course, Isikoff would never do that deliberately. Nah.
That Evans and Isikoff didn’t go harder after the WH on the DOJ scandal itself is apparently their “balance” in the piece. Can’t come across as being “partisan” now can we?
The sunshine that is coming on all of this will ultimately remove all the fig leafs covering this worst-ever administration.
Kevster @ 47
That Evans and Isikoff didn’t go harder after the WH on the DOJ scandal itself is apparently their “balance” in the piece. Can’t come across as being “partisan” now can we?
The sunshine that is coming on all of this will ultimately remove all the fig leafs covering this worst-ever administration.
Didn’t ya hear? The truth is partisan these days.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 32
Christy – start with Oren Hatch.
During AbuG’s Senate testimony, Senator Whitehouse dropped the DOJ–> ChimpCo contacts issue in (the chart). While introducing the topic, he took particular care to mention that “The distinguished Senator Hatch” had a very keen interest in these matters.
How is it that Oren had his radar so finely tuned between, say, January 1993 and December 2000, but virtually ignored this type of DOJ & Executive scrutiny since? Of course we know the answer to that question, but Hatch had to turn away from this and other fuckery for it to happen at all.
It’s more difficult to overthrow the country when folks are watching.
BTW, has Specter’s “aide” been fired and strung up?
Hello, Oren? Hello, Arlen?
The second sentence of the Newsweek article says that JFK appointed his brother “and consigliere” to be AG. Wonder where/why they got that lead?
Christy, can you please contact me by email at your convenience? Thanks, Betsy
From the lede of the Newsweek article
That statement right there, while true, sets the tone of “everybody does it.” Yes, JFK appointed his brother as AG. But unlike AGAG, RFK actually had a level of experience as lawyer to JUSTIFY his appointment. But pointing THAT out would not have allowed them to do “nothing to see here, move along.”
And appointing RFK as AG, did NOT politicize the DoJ. It meant that JFK had an AG he felt he could trust to follow the ENFORCEMENT of the alw as it is written.
Scarecrow, thank you.
And thaks for your point about the 30 “in the loop”.
The “Green Scare” trials in Eugene haqve reached the sentencing phase; this week one of the people who burt the Vail ski resort was sentenced.
Her sentencing mentioned she went to a public library and sent out the communique about the Vail fire.
Dead end for investigators – the eco communique was never traced (not were those of many other ELF/ALF actions).
We’ve been hearing these eco-sabotage cases are the bigggest domestic theat to our national security.
And here 30 top DOJ officials know of systematic abuse – and couldn’t tell the public about it.
I keep wondering if they ever really wanted the DOJ government to work, or if they merely wished to avoid personal and political repercussions for illegality likely to be exposed.
Scarecrow @ 50
JINX!!! LOL.
dakine01 @ 52
That statement right there, while true, sets the tone of “everybody does it.” Yes, JFK appointed his brother as AG. But unlike AGAG, RFK actually had a level of experience as lawyer to JUSTIFY his appointment. But pointing THAT out would not have allowed them to do “nothing to see here, move along.”
And appointing RFK as AG, did NOT politicize the DoJ. It meant that JFK had an AG he felt he could trust to follow the ENFORCEMENT of the alw as it is written.
it’s the use of the term “consigliere” that is the real shot. Implication: Bobby = crime family lawyer. But do they ever say (as I have), that Gonzales was Bush’s consigliere?
Betsy — feel free to e-mail me at ReddHedd at firedoglake dot com.
america the bushified/
O beautiful in spite of loyal-bushies/For ever waves of blue/For corrupt mountain judiciary/Above the broken plains/America! the bushified/God shed this disgrace on us/And crown this king of chimphood/From grinning ear to ear!
kirk — The difference is that this was a classified program and if they had revealed it publicly, they would have been breaking the very laws they had sworn to uphold. Not the best of positions to find yourself in when you are a prosecutor. But there were lawful ways to get oversight on it — and those avenues would have been through the GOP-controlled Congress. But they weren’t exactly performing oversight, now were they? And I keep coming back to that question every single time we have a hearing now — how much do they know behind the public masks — and how long have they known it?
OT, unless perhaps you zoom out for a wide-angle view; the best bridge is the one that goes through Yoo to Cheney, which I hadn’t known about and is why I am writing this here:
What do the best minds in the community think about the dot-connecting advocated by sites like http://www.oilempire.us and http://www.911proof.com? That is, can a line be drawn through Cheney’s secret meetings with oil execs to curious aspects of 9/11 (simultaneous and rescheduled wargames drawing interceptors out of the northeast; a hole in the Pentagon apparently smaller than the wingspan of a 757; Cheney actively monitorng the progress of the plane-into-building game) to Iraq to the placement of large, permanent-appearing bases in the vicinity of oil fields to a drive for “a permanent Republican majority” to the DoJ perversion?
This story is an indictment of the press corp. Look at how many people were knew about this atrocity. There had to be scores of people in DC who knew. [ DOJ attorneys, their staff, FBI agents, Ashcroft family, hospital employees, many of their spousesand on and on]. Yet, we don’t hear about it for three damn years!
Great one, Christy. One of your best.
Despite the cheap shots, the Newsweek piece is an indication that the traditional media is starting to tell the story, and, more importantly, that it’s safe to do so.
They could write a dozen more, about similar upheavals at the CIA, EPA, State, &c.
Someone needs to connect the real dots: voter fraud starting in 2000 and going forward being the rotten heart of this administration.
Tommy — you think this is good, wait until Book Salon. This is one book that I could nto put down, start to finish.
btw, how is Esten? Good to see you this morning. :)
“Mark Corallo, the Justice Department’s chief of public affairs under Ashcroft”
so Mark was at Justice when the showdown happened?
The Google tells me the OLC is the Ohio Library Council.
Morning Redd
I had just finished reading this article when I found your great analysis. We’re starting to get the tiniest peek at what’s goin on inside the White House- and it’s pretty damned ugly.
I’m about 2/3 of the way through Suskind’s book- very interesting. Bottom line is that those who think that Cheney has been totally running the show are probably making a big mistake. The mess that we see is the result of a lot of things coming together and the most important is what we can charitably call Bush’s “Management Style”.
Bush believes in being aggressive- but he also lacks the patience to figure anything out before acting. He is constantly pressuring everyone he comes into contact with to “act not talk” He doesn’t appear to much care what exactly it is they do- as long as it’s aggressive and quick. He also won’t pay any attention to anything over three pages- so tryin to get him to see “the big picture” is hopeless.
He has only a few close aids who know him well enough to be let in on his “thought process” These half a dozen people are pretty sure that if the american public knew what he was really doing and thinking, they would be horrified- so they conspire to hide him from anyone else- even cabinet members like Todd Whitman and Collin Powell.
Cheney has the theory that it’s best if the president doesn’t know much- so he has plausible deniability. Bush doesn’t WANT to know much- so this is a match made in heaven.
Bush has created a “culture” where everyone runs around like chickens with their heads cut off- constantly “acting aggressively” with not a bit of attention being paid to figuring out what oughta be done first. To the extent there’s ANY rationale- it’s political.
It’s a God forsaken fucked up mess- and it cannot get better.
Pray.
tommy yum @ 61
Maybe, but Isikoff in particular is of a breed that thinks a lede like the on in this piece is for “balance”, and not a misleading strike at the heart of the truth that underlies. He’s a lot like BoBo, but not all the way there.
blue e at 62 – Yes, and think he may have been passing on any tips on how to handle things from, say, the WH political office. Given that Ms. Goodling was busy setting up hockey meet and greets and such for DoJ employees, you know someone was a better conduit for “helpful hints.” I say that is worth asking under oath of Mr. Corallo, myself.
sojourner, 26:
This is only partly correct. The Republican plan to make over the America into a theocracy is part and parcel of the religious right’s plan to Christianize America according to their definition of Christianity.
Monica Goodling is Exhibit A. In the past few years, over 150 key government positions have been filled by graduates from the quasi-Christian law schools that have been popping up like mushrooms, particularly in the Bible Belt.
The express mission of these schools is to produce lawyers who will use their skills to supplant the separation between church and state into an outright fundamentalist Christian theocracy. The Republican party is just the vehicle of choice to do it, but the impulse comes from fundamentalist Christians.
The aim is no less than to subvert the Constitution. With an overarching goal like this, it is no surprise that infiltrating the DOJ with lawyers who have this as their goal is considered no big deal. “The end justifies the means.”
You may have already seen this Walt Handesman animation about NSA wiretapping.
It’s a hoot
http://www.newsday.com/news/op…..6650.flash
Loo Hoo at 63 — It’s Office of Legal Counsel. They do legal opinions for governmental agencies on constitutionality and applications of rules and regs, as well as appeals advice, among a lot of other things.
As many as 30 DOJ officials were threatening to resign, and we’re only hearing about this now?! Geez. “The Washington Post” should really open a news bureau in Washington.
The obvious question I’d like an answer to: How many of those who threatened to resign are still at the DOJ?
For those of you who missed this Rawstory link, Andy Card got loudly booed when Amherst tried to give him an honorary degree. “No honor, no degree,” they all shouted. Amazing video. The bookend is Cheney getting standing Os for his warmongering speech at West Point. Culture clash.
Loo Hoo. @ 64
Office of Legal Counsel which I assume is the AG’s lawyer
O/T but tangentally related:
Did Comey appoint PJF to the Plame investigation before or after “the hospital incident”? If it’s after, I see PFJ’s selection as not only a big FU to the White House, but a “you better watch it or I’ll send him after you next” type thing. Comey could have sent a Republican player to sweep it all under the rug, but he sent the scariest player around: one who wants the truth.
Another good maneuver by Comey (after helping to circumvent the “hospital incident”.)
okay…going back to lurkercity…you all are amazing!
old gold @ 60
shite like this sher does make it more difficult to plausibly sustain the myth that conspiracies–IX/XI, or election theft, to bring up two of the most egregious examples–are impossible to perpetuate, donnit?
just aaskin’
tommy yum @ 61
That used to be done by 60 Minutes — until Viacom bought CBS and Sumner Redstone stifled all criticism of his Bush buddies. One of the most insidious things Rove has done is co-opt the traditional media outlets (remember the massive fines for Janet Jackson’s wardrobe malfunction?), so that any real criticism that appears (Olbemermann, Maher, etc.) can be dismissed as “leftie rants” that we allow because after all, we have a free press in this country!
Scarecrow @ 72
Chilling sight, that.
citysquirrelly @ 74
Sorry to disappoint you citysquirrelly, but once ya start, ya can’t quit with just one comment. Kinda addictive in a positive way…And welcome to the da lake…
Christy, have you been following Tom Heffelfinger’s reaction to Goodling’s testimony?
For over a year, despite various provocations, he’s been a good soldier and refused to go after Main Justice, much less Rachel Paulose.
But then Goodling said that he’d been zapped for spending too much time on Indian issues.
That burst the dam.
As Heffelfinger tartly points out here, this was in the aftermath of the Red Lake school shootings, which were one of the worst school shootings in US history. He would have been derelict in his duty not to be handling them.
In fact, he uses language very similar to that of James Comey’s before Congress to describe the current state of the DoJ.
Even more interesting is how Goodling, Sampson and Gonzales paid far more attention to the ideology of current and proposed USAs than to their rsums or job histories. Check this out:
Brief digression: One of the charges Paulose’s defenders have hurled at Heffelfinger is that his office doesn’t like her because she’s a woman. Yet if that was the case, how come Heffelfinger’s first choice to replace himself was a woman as well?
But anyway:
citysquirrelly @ 74
Before – way before: December, 2003.
Yoo- is exactly the sort of cowboy that the Bush administration encourages- shoot first and ask questions later- run it up the flagpole and see if anyone salutes it- better ta ask forgiveness than permission- etc. We’ve heard it all before- but this type personality is properly wedged down in the lower levels of most organizations- they’re too dangerous to have in positions of influence- but in the Clusterfuck administration they end up running the show.
Clauswitz said:
“You have four kinds of people in your army.
You have the dull and lazy- they are very important- they will be your foot soldiers
Then you have the bright and ambitious- they will be your generals
You also have the bright and lazy- they will be your staff officers.
But beware- you also have the dull and ambitious- get them our of your army at all costs- they will fuck up everything.
So there ya have it- Clusterfuck should have been drummed out of this army years ago.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 62
Oh, he’s doing so well, thanks for asking. We’re at the tail-end of the last big treatment push before maintenance. The 21-day run of steroids sucked, hard, but that’s over.
He’s such a beautiful, happy dude, and has been playing and laughing with his sister, which hasn’t happened for such a long time. The doctors gave me hope with his excellent prognosis, but his resilience confirmed that he’s beaten this.
What’s the book? I haven’t been out in the deep parts of the Lake recently.
thanks Christy …. I’ve got to start another timeline
citysquirrelly – PJF was appointed at the end of 2003 – before the hospital showdown
citysquirrelly @ 74
As per Marcy: Comey appoints Fitz Dec. 30, 2003.
And once you’ve dived, there’s no going back. Welcome.
This is from the ACLU website regarding their legal actions against the NSA program:
http://blog.aclu.org/index.php…..swers.html
Good on the ACLU.
Scarecrow @ 72
Correction needed here: It was at the University of Massachusetts that Card was booed. Massachusetts did not try to give card an honorary degree, he got it.
Amherst bestowed an honorary degree on Patrick Fitzgerald on the same day.
The unintended irony here is that both schools are part of the Five College Consortium, only a couple of miles apart in Amherst, MA.
Yoo was increasingly seen as a rogue operator inside the Justice Department.
I call BS.
He has realiably defended the Admin ever since he left. Yoo is gone now. So he’s fair game, as some would say, and they’ll try impugn his tenure at DoJ. But he performed every last perverted act on our Constitution as his bosses so desired – without “protection”.
I am beginning to think of this whole mess differently. I don’t think it was really an attempt to install a fascist or nazi government. It was an inside job. They make movies and TV shows about the inside guy at the bank or the warehouse or wherever all the time. Everybody understands plain simple greed. With this framework, it can’t be brushed off as partisan differences, it’s just the plundering of the treasury. All the DoJ stuff is just a way of covering their tracks as the truck with the loot goes past the city limit sign.
I think it is a perfect target for RICO prosecutions. All the rest is just a distraction. Find what happened to the missing 9 billion dollars in Iraq, then find someone who will break the Omerta code.
dreamcatcher @ 86
thanks, I was using “Amherst” as short for U of Mass, at Amherst — and I should have been more precise, as would one famous alumnus, emptywheel. But I am not she.
Wolf Blitzer and Joe Biden. Some quotes from this interview:
“I think it would be wrong to cut the funding off.” — Biden.
“Iraq and al-Qaeda have become a Bush fulfilling prophecy.” — Biden.
Scarecrow @ 72
For what it is worth, Amherst and the USMA are two different places. You’ll never see a President or Vice-President booed at West Point.
I believe that when the book is written on this administration it will be a story of a President who was damaged goods- everything else stems from that.
Sure there were pet conservative projects afoot- sure there were ambitious people tryin to crawl over each other- sure there was greed and avarice aplenty- these things are always present “at court” but when you have a head honcho who is hopelessly over his head- those things cease being a part of the interesting texture of an administration and start being the major themes of a nightmare.
If ya wanna understand this administration- you’ve gotta understand Bush.
Sojourner @ 26: You are definitely on to something:
I am about half way through reading Michael Weinstein’s With God On Our Side: One Man’s War against an Evangelical Coup in America’s Military and I’ve gotta tell you that this is the scariest thing I’ve read yet. I’d read and heard about the dust-up at the Air Force Academy that took place several years ago, but totally missed at the time the pervasiveness of the problem, not only at the USAFA but throughout entire Air Force and the military as a whole as described by Weinstein and his co-author. Especially alarming is the tenacity and fanaticism of the push-back from both the senior uniformed and civilian leaderships to the basic idea that using the authority inherent in superior to force your religious views on a subordinate might be treading on the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment.
When one reads something like Weinstein’s book against the background of the slime that is emerging about the deeds of the Bush administration and the facilitation thereof by many of the Republicans in Congress, it leads to the conclusion that the Republican Party has become a subversive organization, and that the danger to the future of our democracy that was posed by the Red Menace of the 1940s and 1950s pales in comparison.
Considering the breadth and depth of the Talibangelical penetration of the Armed Forces, if impeachment does rise on the radar, citizens of the USA have to be seriously concerned about the possiblility of a military coup in the event of a conviction. It’s sad to have to say it, but people should begin paying attention to the religious affiliations of the officers in command of units in and around the nation’s capital.
I view myself as a somewhat left-leaning centrist but have voted for the occasional GOP candidate over the years, most recently Jim Ramstad in 2000 (but not since), the moderate Republican who has represented my right-of-center district since 1991. But I will not be voting for any candidate who runs for office under the GOP banner for any office whatsoever unless and until I am positive that the subversive virus now at the heart of that party has been fully and completely exterminated. I frankly doubt that this will happen within the remaining 15 or 20 or more years that I hope to remain alive and somewhat sentient.
Amazing post Christy.
I’d like to see Spector and Sensenbrenner under oath and ask them if any DOJ person spoke with them about any of this at any time.
“WH actions on this were closely held among Presidential cronies…”
“…a slow and stealthy erosion of the independence of the Justice Department.”
It’s pretty clear that the officials in the room making these decisions were Cheney, Rove, Addington, Yoo, maybe Gonzales and Card. Only they know the plan. Bush was briefed, Super Top Secret.
The Congress as a whole should look at the executive branch favorability polls, schedule a date soon and take a no-confidence vote on Bush/Cheney.
Scarecrow @ 89
I think the students and faculty of UMass-Amherst were trying to assure that they do NOT wind up in the same boat as UMass-Boston which is still trying to justify and get out from having given Robert Mugabe an honorary a couple of years ago…
Mass resignations at the DOJ from those initially involved would have been more effective. More dramatic too. Instead they seemed to have placed their careers over the welfare of this country. So familiar a theme lately.
newtonusr @ 49
newtonusr, I can’t figure out if this was at the bottom of Hatch’s motivations, but it’s close.
One whole underlay of the DOJ Attorneys scandal is the natural resources angles. Oren’s nest moved from Seante staffers to DOI/WH/DOJ positions, bouncing back and forth through Executive Branch positions (and a Federal judiciary appt IIRC).
Off the top of my head Sampson and Taylor spawned in Oren’s test – Griles/ Abramoff/ Woodridge definitely crawled there. IIRC even without Cobell the resource loot is worth billions.
great post, christy. you-all are on such a roll.
one thing i want to add about injustice in our justice system – even though i know you-all already know it:
the politicalization of the doj and the nsa spying are only the latest outrages…
the rounding up of hundreds of muslims and people from the ME after 911, the torture and lack of due proccess, what happened to padilla, arar and to so many people tarnished with the taint of “terrorist” by bogus investigations and alerts – we’ve known these things have been going on for years. innocent people have been harmed and people who’ve committed small infractions have been punished way out of proportion to their crimes.
this was happening before bush (see luer, jeff) but with 911 injustice become far more common place… and during the last few years, my remaining faith in the system was mostly destroyed. now, while i’m very glad to see that maybe concern for real justice has started to go mainstream to the general public, it saddens me that it didn’t happen until republicans with real politcal clout were professionally harmed.
justice is supposed to protect the “little” person too.
there’s such a long way to go – and making justice safe for important republicans is not far enough.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 32
Even without active collusion, Congressional Reps put party above country and abandoned their oaths to the Constitution by refusing to stand up to Bush.
That holds true even now, as the Goodling talking points were recited in HJC just last week.
I wonder what some of our expert Plame-ologists will think of this?
The wingnuts are all up in arms about how this article from Byron York shows that PLAME LIED!!11!one! And deserves at least the same fate as poor Scooter, if not worse. Of course the highlighted email (if accurate) doesn’t explicitly say “Send Joe” it simply highlights his qualification for the trip. But I suspect that this meme will be appearing on Drudge soon if it hasn’t already and therefore will be the lead in the MSM political news next week, so I suspect it would be advisable to understand the question ASAP.
New York Times editorial:
NYT Link
I truly believe all of this leads directly to Bush himself. He orders it, and other loyalists and handlers like Rove figure out how to execute his orders. They keep telling us that “they serve at the pleasure of the president” – they do his bidding. Repeating that justification over and over publicly is not an accident. It is and was Bush all along. When Mrs. Ashcroft was called by Card and refused the visit, Bush who told Card to call her, called her personally. Hello…He is not stupid. He has a very specific agenda. Everyone around him protects him by buffering him by portraying him as oblivious. He is not. It is Bush.
When John Ashcroft becomes a heroic figure, you know you’re fucked…
sojourner @ 26
Spector has so often said he was going to do the right thing then rolled over. I have been convinced for years now that these people are being blackmailed into compliance. (Ref illegal wiretapping and who knows what other means.)
LOL when Comey becomes a heroic figure, you know you’re fucked…
BTW no one is capable of absolute evil 100 percent of the time. There are certain lines on certain issues. Ashcroft and Comey, loyal republicans, even have their lines when it comes to wiretapping political opposition.
rwcole @ 92
This may be an urban myth, but you may have to begin Bush’s pathology in the womb. While carrying Bush, it has been said that Bars did enjoy the sauce, perhaps more than her doctor would have wanted.
I would have no way to validate this urban legend, but if true, then soaking a foetus’ brain in alcholic vapors can hardly be salutary for the child’s future health. If it’s in the mother’s bloodstream, there is no way you can filter it all out before it gets to the child’s developing brain.
“George W.Bush, with his demonstrative firmness, his willed unflinching certainty, shows vulnerability and consfusion only to those in a very small secretive circle, just a handful of people. He is very good at some things that presidents are prized for, and startingly deficient in others. No one in his innermost circle trusts that those imbalances would be well received by a knowledgeable public, especially at a time of crisis. So they are protective of him- astonishingly so- and forgiving. That goes for Cheney, Rove, Rice, Card, Rumsfeld, and Tenet, the trusting half dozen In fact that may be the only impulse they all share”
Suskind “The One Percent Doctrine”
I really have trouble with the portrayal of Monica G in the press.
First we were told that she cried uncontrollably when first confronted by committee staff. Then on the witness stand she did her lost girl scout routine.
This woman worked as a nut-cutter during the Bush presidential campaign, at RNC, at the WH and then DOJ.
She got immunity then pleaded the fifth at the hearings. WTF?
Does anyone have a good bio on this chick?
so, US Attorneys serve at the pleasure of the President (and isnt that becoming an icky phrase). at what point did they displease the President, since after all only he has the authority to fire them? dont these folks write anything down? where’s the memo with the President’s signature? where are there notes from the meeting where this was approved (you know, after he got back from Mexico and Harriet asked if he was ok with it)?
Rheinhard @ 101
Oh, that’s hilarious. It’s been known that Plame’s advice was asked on who should take that trip to Niger (which, as the poorest nation on Earth, is not exactly the desirable tourist destination Dick Cheney seems to think it is). The key point which they so desperately want to obscure is this: She wasn’t the decisionmaker. Her input was sought (as it should have been, since this was her friggin field of expertise), but she didn’t have authority over the final decision.
kirk murphy @ 98
When I heard Whitehouse’s comment about Hatch’s “purity” on Executive Branch –> DOJ contacts, I just thought it was a well-placed finger in the eye from a Freshman Senator who knows a lot about this stuff from being a USA. But after hearing his first exam of AbuG on that day, and repeated listenings of the complete hearing, I think he was trying to send a shockwave through the GOP, and with good reason.
I had not even considered the “resource” angle. Thanks.
catcher- Yeah I’ve heard that too- but I don’t mean “understand” in that sense. Maybe he was dropped on his head- maybe he was fed opium for breakfast at an early age- and maybe that all CAUSED him to be the way he is- but what we need is more information on HOW he behaves- then we can understand why things are so fucked up!! It’s not so much a matter of him giving specific orders- it isn’t clear that he does much of that- it’s a matter of the model he presents and the culture he creates that leads to the wise getting cut off at the knees and the reckless getting free reign.
Funny how Byron York turns this:
Into “Valerie Plame unilaterally sent her husband on a junket to Niger for the sole purpose of embarrassing kindly old Mr. Cheney in direct contradiction of her sworn congressional testimony and here’s the smoking gun to prove it”…
Well, not “haha” funny…
I could not help weighing in on the consigliere issue.
A consigliere is just Italian for “counselor”.
In the Godfather sense, it is a legal counselor to the crime family, its No. 2 man chosen for his competency not his blood connection to the family, aware of but not necessarily directly involved in the day to day criminal operations of the family, i.e. Tom Hagen. His counterpart in the Bush family is Jim Baker.
Robert Kennedy was certainly an attorney and close advisor to JFK but he wasn’t his consigliere. He was his heir, the next in line to be don. Being No. 2 in the organization and being No. 2 in the family are not the same thing.
Alberto Gonzales also is not a consigliere to Bush. He never had the smarts to be Bush’s principal advisor. He was never the No. 2. If you want to keep the Mafia analogy, I would say he was more of a capo who was sent to the DOJ to run it for his don.
Rheinhard at 101 — You mean, the segment that was specifically inserted into the report by the GOP minority, at the direction of Kit Bond, which excerpts only a portion of e-mails involved? I’m sure Marcy will get to details on this in a post at some point, but she’s already ripped this in her book. Byron ought to have read it by now.
albert fall @ 100
I hope the democratic challengers use video clips of these hearings to drive the point home to voters in’08.
kirk murphy @ 98
oo please, let this lead to the public downfall of Orrin the Hatch …
and Abramoff & Friends are sitting right in the middle of natural resource abuse
the pieces dovetailing all around, I hope
Organic George @ 109
The fifth amendment plea at the beginning of the hearing was a procedural move that allowed for her immunity to be placed specifically into the record. She answered the quesitons after that. At least as well as her lawyers had prepped her for doing. I’m hopeful that some of the committee members had valid reasons for not following up aggressively on some of her non-answers.
LS @ 103
Of course it does. It’s Bush, Rove or Cheney — and since Cheney handles the fopo angle, that leaves Rove and Bush.
This is why they don’t dare let Gonzo go — he’s their last firewall. Once he goes, there’s nothing between them and accountability.
Finally de-lurking … because:
I’ve been following this BushCo madness for years now and reading FDL etc. for at least a year.
Christy!!!! It’s obvious to me that the congresscritters have had marching orders all along on everything, *even* when they disagreed. All in the cause of keeping the party strong at the very least. I see no reason open minds should think the background on this was any different. Where do you think they draw the line on American values? Like, ok well, party power forever but corrupting the DOJ is just going too far? No way. They don’t care. They are told not to care and they don’t dream up their own 5 minute rounds either. Feh.
Spector is the kabooki master arteest! And a fool, too. Making fools of us all!
Love the lake, love the ladies. You are hope. And vlogging is the future of progressive campaigning !!!!!
Goodling is not a “girl”. She is a women who in her own words was
a Type Atoo bitchy to work with another strong and formidable female attorney.I find it incredibly sexist that Isikoff & Thomas describe Goodling as shy and a little overwhelmed . . . Christian girl. This lets her off the hook. For political reasons she derailed or “delayed” (her own words) the career of professional and competent attorneys. And she didn’t do this because she believed that she was strengthening the quality of attorneys at DOJ; she did it because she knew what would advance her own career. Pack the DOJ with people more comminted to GOP / “Christian” causes then rule of law and be rewarded by BushCo.
Thanks for the greetings everyone!
Awww, my first “political theory” blown to bits!
pwrlght @ 123
Uh-huh. Over at TPM, persons from DoJ who know her describe her as tough as nails and utterly dedicated to her cause. Imagine Dick Cheney in a wig and after a crash diet.
Kathryn in MA @ 105
I’m with you on this – Specter is “Mr. red herring”.
But, his comments in the Abu hearings, whether or not he said he would suggest to Chimpy that he fire Abu, and his seething opening statement with Comey – Specter now has virtually no wiggle-room – he’s as much as said that working for this particular DOJ is an embarrassment for professionals (speaking about McNulty’s resignation). Arlen is now locked in.
Didn’t Abu Gonzales lie when he testified before Congress that there was no “large” controversy within the government concerning the domestic wiretapping program?
Aren’t there consequences for lying to Congress under oath?
Dems should order up an Iraq War Memorial in Washington on the mall in which the names of the freshly fallen are carved daily- it would be a monument of non specific dimensions as no one knows how big the thing will need to be.
The photo ops of the daily engraving should be sobering for america.
fdl reader @ 121
and if only this washes away that blight on justice that is Specktor
He is right. The ‘Lifers” ofyten are Liberals. The reason?
Ambitious Republicans use service as an AUSA as a resume building stepping stone. You poften hear them complaining about the work (Fran Fragos was famous for this–you could hear her btuchig down the other end of the hallway–used to set my teeth totally on edge)
So, they serve their 3 year commitment and then go on to lucrative careers at big fancy lawfirms.
It is the true believers in Justice who contine to toil away at civil service salaries trying to make the system work who tend to be the sorts who would otherwise be working for Legal Aide, or be in academia, or the Peace Corps or in an earlier time, the clergy.
“lifers” are held in some contempt by their so called “smarter” (and by smart I don’t mean intellectually, I mean cunningly) colleagues and often regarded as hopeless romantics.
the list of folks who were wire tapped will be astounding. Does anyone think for one minute that this crowd would not include in the list of those who should be tapped and taped anyone who ever attended a rally against the war, signed a petition against it or sent money to groups such as doctors without borders, amnesty international, etc?
The list of those surveilled and whose electronic transmissions and calls and mail that were tapped should be made public.
You can well imagine, brothers and sisters, that all of us are on the list.
Think of Bolton and his request and receipt of information on former diplomats and others who were in touch with leaders of foreign countries.
I wish they would call me to a federal jury–I would be the example of what Comey is afraid of. No prosecution by these folks is supportable by my oath as a juror–reasonable doubt.
Every week more and more Washington pundits announce that it’s all over for Gonzo- and every monday he climbs back into the saddle for another wild ride. This fucker has no nerve endings.
Scarecrow @ 31
Nice pickup!
Organic George @ 109
Nothing so far. And if she’s actually been a good Christian soldier, there won’t be any dirt, only a chain of datapoints that confirm Goodling was incapable of critical thought, only a blind obedience giving evidence to her brainwashed condition. She has likely been told her entire life that “Liberal = Evil” and that evil must be plucked out like the proverbial offending eye. No thinking required, only automatic response towards any indication that someone is liberal.
And she is no poor little thing; she did what she did with utter ruthlessness, a complete disregard for the personal conditions of each of the employees she plucked out. That she couldn’t be bothered to familiarize herself with employees’ CV’s says much about this blind ruthlessness as it does her own evil; there was no attempt whatsoever to rehabilitate any previously praised employee. They were simply treated like detritus.
How amusing that she didn’t seek out one of her own kind to cry out her very little heart when she realized she would be caught up in an investigation led by the people she utterly despised.
rwcole @ 130
He goes when he’s told to go – not before.
I’ve predicted his ouster and self-ouster half a dozon times – how can he survive Kyle Sampson? How can he survive Comey, or Goodling, or Mueller? How can he look himself in the mirror?
Until the GOP Senators take that walk up the hill, he won’t budge. And maybe not even then. Can we all say, “Baker-Hamilton”?
I can easily envision Bush saying things like:
We have 8 years to get this job done, and it is going to be hard work. I want conservatives permanently in control in all departments. I want to be able to know what is going on in every house, in every phone call, in every email in this country and abroad – I don’t care how you do it, but I want it done. If we need to torture or kill to get information, then find out a way to do it. I want total loyalty and total secrecy as to how to execute my mandate. I’ll be damned if I’m going to allow Dems back in the WH, this is our one shot at this, etc., etc……on and on and on.
looseheadprop @ 128
lhp – i assume you’ve listened to fitz’s remarks on “public service” to amerherst grads this weekend?
rwcole @ 132
gonzo’s job is to be a bright, sparkly object, to distract the Congress and the (easily distractable) SCUM…or, more aptly, perhaps, the laser-pen beam for the the house pets to chase so charmingly…
.
peterboy at 131 — Then I hope to hell that you are never on a jury, because that is as stunningly appalling as politicizing the DOJ is. Either you take your public duty seriously, or you should not do it. Period. If you think allowing a murderer or other criminal to go free because of anger at the Bush Administration is appropriate, then you fail to understand what exactly most USAs and AUSAs are striving for — and how they ought to be supported when they are doing the right thing just as the ones doing the wrong thing ought to be called out. Punish the Bushies, but don’t punish the communities who have to deal with the aftereffects of this — they don’t deserve it, any more than the citizens in them deserve more crime in the streets because mistrust seeps into the system. THIS is exactly why this whole mess pisses me off — because, by and large, most people in the prosecutors’ offices are simply trying to do their damned job and protect the public and punish wrongdoers. And that Karl Rove’s craven hand of manipulation has even called that into question at all is beyond appalling.
And if you let him get away with that, and you don’t execute your jury duty based on the law and the evidence and nothing else? Then you let Rove win.
i hope this doesn’t seem too OT. i just spent five days in Normandy chaperoning twenty three teenagers most of which were German. there were a lot of people visiting the various sites and museums about the 1944 invasion. i met an American veteran who was making his first visit, with his daughter who had convinced him to come after all these years. he was talking with a Brit whose father had been in the invasion as well. the British fellow finally asked him a question he didn’t have an answer for and he turned to me and said “Why don’t you ask him? Maybe he was here.” i had to confess that i was only seven at the time.
last week there were lots of Americans and British and French people of all ages there. there was a group of Spanish tourists as well. There are 9,000 white crosses and stars of davids at Colville. In Bayeux there is a cemetary sponsored by the UK that has mostly British military but also a number of Germans, some Russians and a few Muslims from Morrocco and Egypt.
at Omaha Beach i found a rusted bullet fused to a piece of rock. i had never been to the invasion sites before. i’ve never even seen the films about it. i started to reflect on this experience yesterday. i wondered what the vet i met thinks about what has happened to America over the past seven years. i wonder what our young women and men in Iraq think about it.
last Saturday night i was in a museum in Caen. a French woman there asked if i was Norweigian. i said, “no, i’m American.” i wasn’t sure how she would react. she kissed me. somehow i don’t think that such a thing will ever happen in Iraq . Ever ……….
rwcole @ 113
rw, as long as you and I seem to be on this armchair psychologist mode, Bush has an overweening need to be approved and elevated, and a patholical fear of dissension (anything that suggest he could be wrong).
The people around him know this perfectly well, so in the interest of self-promotion and survival, they are going to tell Bush what he wants to hear. Those who stand on principle and speak their mind are cast away as waste trimmings from a spoiled ham.
Now, following this kind of leadership style, there is no other possible outcome than to implement the boss’s preconceived ideas, however bad they are. If in fact Bush was a true leader with a practical agenda, the same style of leadership could make him a historical hero, a great leader, maybe a Roosevelt.
Problem is, his entire vision is wrong from start to finish, and that is why we are here.
newtonusr @ 49
Orrin Hatch wrote a letter demanding information about Jose Padilla. Get past your outrage over the happy talk that Comey used to get that information out, and think about why Hatch would write the letter and why Comey would spend so much time getting the info de-classifed when DOJ could have simply written back “sorry-all classified”
That letter was clearly a set up to cover for Comey getting the info out.
BTW, my depiction of Bush psychology I believe is consistent with how the mind of an alcoholic works, especially an untreated one. (Bush was never treated. He just went off the wagon, not a cure.)
OT
Michael Gordon has an article up at the New York Times which I slammed yesterday. It originally had the title and blurb:
“Increased Strife Is Foreseen in Iraq if U.S. Troops Leave”
Today it has been changed to:
“Strife Foreseen in Iraq Exit, but Experts Split on Degree”
Maybe it’s just me but this seems a significant toning down of the initial inflammatory headline. It makes me wonder who and how editing gets done at the Times, especially in reference to someone who has the track record and established biases of a Michael Gordon.
Besides the number of DOJ leadership that were going to resign, I am also surprised at TWO phonecalls.
Both Card and alledgedly Bush.
I don’t remember hearing there were TWO calls; this means it was not only coordinated and part of a conspiracy, but that they were determined to violate the sanctity of the hospital room and intrude on Ashcroft. No wonder they were so protective of Schiavo; she was a model of their belief system that citizens are still useful tools to them even in extremis.
Utterly disgusting.
What if a huge number of Democrats called and said no more money. That we will vote Independent until something is done that requires spine.
In enough number until notice is taken.
We can give to candidates that vote right.
kirk murphy @ 53
On what planet do think it is OK for people charged with upholding the law, to themselves break the law, in the name of saving it?
You want people in gov’t with integrity to put themsleves about the law (when they are not legally entitled to be whistleblowers)because someone else put themselves above the law.
How do 2 wrongs make a right? there are bigger principles at stake here
I’m with pwright: calling Goodling a “Christian girl” is doubly disgusting: it is sexist, relating her problems to being a girl, which she influences with that dopey haircut; but it also cuts her slack with the adjective. To me, the word Christian in this context is pointless: why use it? It cannot be that her admissions of criminal behavior fit the Christian model, or that her political activities were justified by her Christian beliefs in any objective way. If she felt justified in imposing her religion on the country by her appointment and firing pracices, what are we to conclude? Maybe she was manipulated into this view by the idiot “education” she got in her Christian college and law school. Maybe she is a secret Straussian. Maybe she is a true believer, who thinks she knows best because Jesus is whispering in her ear.
Even now, she isn’t really telling the truth, and this makes me think she is a true believer in the new republicanism exemplified by Bush and Gonzales and Yoo. This is a good enough reason to destroy her future.
Hugh @ 143
Good catch, Hugh; I only saw the original and figured it was an extension of the WH line — after Bush went out of his way in the presser to discredit the Edward’s speech that “war on terror” was the wrong frame.
This is serious business. I disagree with Christy in this sense: This is purely political. There is very little these people know or care about right and wrong. And it’s not lost on me that this is a re-pug driven scandal. They are certainly not above disgraceful practices if it will either get them elected, keep them in office or divert media attention away from pending embarrassment. see: http://www.commondreams.org/ar…..5/26/1481/
This whole thing stinks.
Frank Probst @ 71
Hardly any.
In light of all this information why do we not have a special prosecutor going after Card and Gonzales?
cancer_cures @ 90
Glenn Greenwald had an excellent piece up yesterday about how bogus the cutting off funding issue is and how Democrats have bought into it hook, line, and sinker.
Biden is an *ss. No one is talking about cutting off funding for the troops. No one. What we are talking about is how to end the war in Iraq and remove our troops from there. I know it’s futile but it would be great if Biden for once in his life got a clue.
Why is no one talking about the Greg Palast article at truthout?
The Goods on Goodling and the Keys to the Kingdom
By Greg Palast
BradBlog.com
Thursday 24 May 2007
And the no longer “missing” Rove emails revealing the cagey scheme to steal 2008…
catcher
Yes I’m very interested in the topic. I studied “management” and “leadership” formally and informally for many years and I have had plenty of opportunity to see how the guy at the top influences an organization.
His “vision” will have some effect as will his direct “marching orders” but his BIGGEST effect will be more subtle- He values certain types of behavior- certain kind of people- certain kinds of information- certain kinds of counsel–and this will become common knowledge in a VERY short period of time- and all will be playing toward the preffered behavior set- which in this case is “hair trigger cowboy”.
Hugh, there was more as well.
For example, Biden gave the reason that even if they cut war funding, he said along the lines ‘Do you think Bush enforce it?’
Basically, he was using the logic that even if the war funding was cut, that Bush would keep our troops there, without ammunitions, foods, and other supplies.
This is a very retarded argument and we have to counter this with a strong, bold Yes, the president would.
I’m not saying that Bush is not capable of letting our troops have a worse situation, but you have to realize that there are generals and mid-level officers who would detest this so vehemently, that a coup would most likely take place. I do not doubt this for a second. There’s no way career generals would let their troops starve or fight without proper munitions. There would be an immediate withdrawal, whether Bush authorizes it or not.
What’s the score now? In terms of dead bodies. Saddam; how many? Bush; how many?
Mr. President on this Memorial Day weekend I ask you: will your apparent thirst for blood ever be satiated?
“START YO ENGINES” INDIANAPOLIS 500 KICKIN OFF!
Christy backat me @ 138.
Isn’t that why we have juries, so that peers can be the final redoubt against a corrupt and prejudiced prosecutor; a politicized prosecutorial system?
I think we agree, Christy, that undermining the DOJ is what Rove wants and to use jury nullification is to say Rove wins.
But at this point, what we disgree on is whether he has succeeded. I think he has and I do not trust the DOJ. In my mind, it no longer exists. It has become an adjunct to the WH political operation.
I understand that from the experiences you have had in life, that you know good prosecutors and that they still are there. I trust that knowledge. But I don’t share it, because I don’t have your intimate experience inside the AG office.
We could have the same discussion about reporters. I spent 30 years in that world; many at a major MSM paper and know the passion so many of my former colleagues bring. SO I disagree with your view of including Corallo in their “otherwise straigthforward piece.”
They had to do it and it was just a tiny splinter in a large structure that stands against Bush.
But I get what you are saying. Sadly, I agree with Comey–and for me there have been a host of prosecutions–medical pot people, soon doctors who do abortions, voter fraud cases around the country, probably Padilla–that are just part of the GOOPER political operation.
Rheinhard @ 101
It’s a bright shiney object and I do not think that this story will have legs. I assume Valerie would not have testified as she did if the @ other people in the conversation were not prepared to back her up.
jim talcott @ 153
If he has them, he should present them to the oversight committee, and supposedly he is. He’s been bragging about this for quite awhile. He needs to walk the walk. We’ll see.
looseheadprop @ 140
If I’m not mistaken, you’re suggesting that Hatch is an honest broker here – Justice must prevail, and all that. I’m sorry, but I watched and listened to his exams of Gonzales – or I’m missing the point. I’m not so naive to think that others motivations are either pure or not – There is very little Black and White here…
BTW, Would love to see that letter. Got a link?
Organizations pay a little attention to what the head person SAYS- but a lot MORE attention to what they DO. If ya want to know what the head person REALLY wants- look to see who gets promoted- that’s what they really want- whether they KNOW it or NOT.
In Bush’s case- it’s LOYALTY first- everything else second.
Performance is WAY down the list- it isn’t clear that he even knows what that looks like- since he’s never been guilty of committing it himself.
The “National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive,” with the dual designation of NSPD-51, as a National Security Presidential Directive, and HSPD-20, as a Homeland Security Presidential Directive, establishes under the office of president a new National Continuity Coordinator.
cancer_cures @ 157
go Ladies!
Goodling’s performance in the House hearings was exactly that, a performance. It says a lot that Isikoff buys so easily into it. I think reporters nowadays are chosen precisely for their lack of critical thinking abilities. So Isikoff has no problem with Goodling as a Pollyanna, even if she is carrying a shiv.
Elliott @ 163
Go Sara Fisher :D
Comey should have resigned the minute he heard about the ‘hospital visit’. He is certainly no Elliot Richardson. Neither is Ascroft.
cancer_cures @ 165
:D !
Phoenix Woman @ 124
Did anyone notice how she described her faith? “I had a faith system in place.” Something like that. It sounds like a weight loss program or doing a certain number of crunches, leg lifts, lunges, etc. a day. Just plug your faith system in, you’re good to go.
Rayne @ 133
Monica is a ruthless, devious, cold little bitch. If she’s a Christian, I’m a Zorastrian hootchie kootchie dancer. She was not overwhelmed, she is just playing the victim. She’s playing a part to save her hypocritical ass. It’s as simple as that.
Margot
There is a certain crass literalness about the “language of faith” current among the fundies that can set one’s teeth on edge. Seems decidedly NON spiritual- more like a recipe book than a painful spiritual struggle to live a Godly life.
dakine01 @ 52
That statement right there, while true, sets the tone of “everybody does it.” Yes, JFK appointed his brother as AG. But unlike AGAG, RFK actually had a level of experience as lawyer to JUSTIFY his appointment. But pointing THAT out would not have allowed them to do “nothing to see here, move along.”
And appointing RFK as AG, did NOT politicize the DoJ. It meant that JFK had an AG he felt he could trust to follow the ENFORCEMENT of the alw as it is written.
Don’t ask the Amish how politicized was the JFK administration. After the elections, JFK cohorts fell on the Amish like a ton of brick for their solid anti-catholic vote.
I’m not suggesting that two wrongs make a right. I am wondering whether there is any point where the Bushies’ criminality would compel DOJ officers to illegally disclose classified activities simply to protect the public from their own government’s secret illegal activities.
If the answer is a categorical “no”, what is the de facto barrier to DHS “snatch and grab” squads against American dissidents? Snatch ‘em, declare ‘em terrorists, abuse ‘em in detention, get a jailhouse snitch to confirm their “confession”, convict them of something trivial in a plea bargain – then hit them with the multi-decade “terrorist enhancement”.
And all classified “secret”.
And one party controls Executive / Legislative – for years – stifling investigations.
So our officials sworn to protect and uphold the Constitution keep silent – they uphold the law about secrets that applies to them.
And know the illegal snatch and grab of dissidents continues.
Precisely what are the purposes of the “bigger principles” the DOJ attorneys uphold when they keep the secrets about blatant ongoing abuses of power?
Have they become attorneys and joined the Bar and sworn an Oath to protect and uphold the Constitution for any reason related to the welfare of the citizens of the United States, or are these factors transcended by the “bigger priniciples”?
I thought “bigger principles” were what philosophy departments were for.
(looseheadprop, here’s why I’m asking the question; I did not flesh it out fully above, and am just finising comment below as you commented. rushing with lap full o cats)
Christy Hardin Smith @ 58
That is a really valid and scary question; I fear the answer would disappoint the Founding Fathers.
I’m not trying to be snarky with the following question, and I respect the very real weight of criminal penalties for unauthorized disclosure.
We’ve seen the Bushie regime breaks any laws with impunity. Overseas the regime abducts without judicial process; the disappeared are tortured.
If/when the Bushies begin abductions and extra-judicial violence on American soil, would the DOJ/DOD senior attorneys still keep silent for fear of disclosing government secrets – even when the secrets are (political) crimes of violence?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 138
Lawyers and judges fear jury nullification for good reason. It’s the lynchpin that holds the whole thing together and the most vunerable part of the way things work. If peterboy is thinking this way you can be sure that others are too. I admit it has crossed my mind in death penalty cases.
new thread, folks!
Sonoma Rus @ 174
All the more reason to be upfront about your biases. I am against the death penalty and would so state form the beginning if called for a DP case.
I was called to jury duty when I was living outside of Tampa. It was a state civil case for an extended commitment for a man who had served his criminal penalty for sexual abuse of a minor. I do not know the specifics of Florida law but was under the impression that they state can hold someone after certain crimes due to the likelihood of another act. I stated up front that due to the work I have done in support of child welfare, even if just from the technology side, I could not be unbiased in my opinion which is that he should stay in jail until hell freezes over in the summertime. I was released from the jury as I should have been.
newtonusr @ 161
No, I don’t think for a minute that Hatch is a good guy. But there is some backstory that caused Hatch to agree to send the letter.
Having a devoted shill like Hatch send the letter gives the kind of coverage that would have been needed in order to actually ANSWER the letter instead of stonewalling it
Christy Hardin Smith @ 137
i don’t think this generalized issue is due to “anger at the Bush Administration” but rather, distrust of the administration and the justice system in general.
how many times do we have to hear police (even/especially police chiefs) lie before we start doubting the honesty of other police?
how many times do we have to hear doj officials hype terrorist threats (for example, comey’s and ashcroft’s padilla pressers) before we start doubting the honesty of other prosecutors?
i wish it wasn’t so… :(
Kirk Murphy
If the answer is a categorical “no”, what is the de facto barrier to DHS “snatch and grab” squads against American dissidents? Snatch ‘em, declare ‘em terrorists, abuse ‘em in detention, get a jailhouse snitch to confirm their “confession”, convict them of something trivial in a plea bargain – then hit them with the multi-decade “terrorist enhancement”.
And all classified “secret”.
And one party controls Executive / Legislative – for years – stifling investigations.
So our officials sworn to protect and uphold the Constitution keep silent – they uphold the law about secrets that applies to them.
And know the illegal snatch and grab of dissidents continues.
That has been the point I have been trying –and failing–to make.
People of integrity are rule followers, not iconoclasts.
This Administration has used that very personality trait to maipulate them. They get hamstrung and occasionaly paralyzed by indecision trying to figure out how to do the right thing without preaking the rules.
ANd I think there is merit to that in the long term. You can’t just talk about repsect for the rule of law, you have to do it.
In the sort term, yes, is produces disaster and there is always the danger that we will fall over the precipice and rule of law will be lost for ever.
But there is no correct way for someone to break the law in the name of preserving it short of Revolution.
Excellent, exhaustive and inspiring. Great work, tying together so many related parts that the MSM tries at all costs to avoid joining.
Karlulu’s political slime-prints are showing up in every one of our federal branches.
Isikoff’s reverse Electra complex for Goodling was telling, you could see her having the same effect on Lungren and Cannon during the hearings.
Is Goodling the only Ashcroft protege’ who stayed-on after the DOJ purge, which was marked most notably by Ashcroft’s resignation? Seems as if Monica II had much less of a Constitutional conscience than even Ted Olsson.
Which suggests her recent testimonial “act 1″ should be scrutinized very, very closely for contrivance. The lunch-break coaching influence EW pointed out just after the hearings suggests Ms. Goodling is a very responsive and malleable performer, which may not bode well for the validity of her immunity agreement.
She sure seems to have kept climbing right on up the Bushie ladder, even after many other, more honorable “Federalist Society” (R)ats had jumped off that s(t)inking ship.
Thanks looseheadprop.
That really helps me to understand the perspective and values of the people of integrity who may have stayed at DOJ.
On a practical basis, I’m still kinda frightened:
My goddess, I wonder how much they’ve been manipulated into concealing even now?
This rendition’s collapsing of the action allows it to be more easily manipulated. Its “back at the ranch” lingo suggests this is just a daily soap; if you don’t like it, change the channel.
Most damningly, it understates the enormity of the problem. I believe that at no time before in American history has the entire top echelon of the Department of Justice, as many as thirty conservative Republican lawyers, including the government’s chief law enforcement officer and the director of the FBI, all appointed by the sitting President, threatened to resign.
John le Carre would describe that without exaggeration as an attempt to stop a coup. Seven Days in March?
The article also repeats the unsupported assumption that this unprecedented lawyers’ revolt was over “the” spying program. We don’t know that. There may be many programs, including one or more that Congress has specifically prohibited, that continue in ways that grossly violate the law of the land, with nothing more to support them than the President’s assertion that the Vice President said that it was OK for him to say, “Because I said so”.
x-posted w/ mods @ The Next Hurrah
PS –
I may spend too much time around civil disobedients (if I ever see my unredacted FBI file, I’ll figure up the hours and let you know:), but I do know many people of integrity who are also rule breakers in the civil disobedience sense.
I would politely disagree with the statement “People of integrity are rule followers, not iconoclasts.” if it were to be extended globally.
In professions with ethical rules (like law and medicine) following those rules is an operational definition of integrity – so on that level, I agree with the quoted statement :)
dakine01 @ 119
Thanks for the explanation.
But do you believe that she is that naive? Did not know what was going on around her? Just stepped over the line when she used right wing alliances; Federalist.. Etc. to chose people to serve in the DOJ?
Can a person be that cold blooded and still be clueless?
I’m just not buying it.
looseheadprop @ 175
I have read the Comey presser, and I know what you’re alluding to now. But my original point to Christy, who asked for suggestions about where to look and who to look at (comment 32)…
was that, by turning away from anything resembling DOJ oversight, especially in the face of such egregious lawlessness, Hatch might be a place to start.
looseheadprop @ 178
i think i’m getting it – but that i disagree.
(though, if i’m missing something and still not getting it, i hope you will keep trying to get through my thick skull)
i’d say that people of the highest integrity are neither always rule followers or iconoclasts.
i think sometimes acting with integrity means breaking the rules – well known examples include the civil rights movement here and gandhi’s satyagraha in india. an outrageous example is that there is no integrity to making the the trains run on schedule when they are bringing people to death camps.
always following the rules is abdicating our own moral responsibility. always being an iconoclast is to reject the moral authority and wisdom of others in tradition, law and society.
following either of these paths alone, does not, imo, lead to a life of integrity.
we are left with the struggle to be wise as well as courageous.
selise @ 186
Wow, Selise, that is awesome!.
deleted redundant comment
selise @ 184
Outstanding.
Senator Durbin has said, on the Senate floor, that he saw and heard information in closed security briefings that would shock those who were not parties to the information, prior to the start of the Iraq war. He brayed that he had to keep his mouth shut while the votes on AUMF were taken, knowing what was true and what was bullshit.
I have heard it said that, as a matter of conscience, that he should have risked jail and leaked the information.
Tough call, since the original source of the data could be a covered agent, classified intelligence asset, etc. He would have, in any case, been flayed by DOJ and ChimpCo.
But if he had stepped up, he would have had a constituiency of outraged citizens, and his sacrafice could have saved at least 2 nations.
So, what is a National Security leak, and who is a Patriot?
Kathryn in MA @ 187 –
thanks kathryn. i hope lhp (and kirk) see it… there has been some “talking past each other”, and the chance to address that is not something i want to miss.
newtonusr @ 188
exactly… sometimes it’s just not clear (at least to me). but, imo, saying “i had to follow the rules” is a cop-out…
if durbin had said something like, “in this case, because of the risks to national security, i thought following the law was more important than speaking truthfully to my collegues and the american people”… i would have a lot more sympathy (and respect) for him.
For those of you that don’t automatically check The Next Hurrah compulsively (if any), Marcy/emptywheel’s got an interesting piece on the same article posted over there.
thanks selise – and newtonusr and lhp -
I do apologize if I’ve talked past you lhp (or if I seem to disagree with you personally). I don’t intend either.
The collision between ethical rules and public protection is the question I was stumbling towards. I appreciate lhp’s patience with my questions and selise I much appreciate your incisive observations.
far better than my muddle on this foggy am:)
off to the market…
Glad to see these issues get play in the MSM. But the smarmy tone of this article dumbs down what happened and understates important aspects of the incidents it describes. Just two items:
One, the authors’ reference to France’s post-revolutionary Terror was appropriate, but not their conclusions. They excuse Goodling too quickly, for example. She was sharp enough not to appear like Madame Defarge. But she wasn’t just knitting while heads rolled in the Place de la Revolution. She operated Madame Guillotine, cutting off the careers of the too bright, the too liberal, the too irreligious and too Democratic. Bureaucratic jokes often hide grim realities, and having a “Monica problem” was not about wondering where to dryclean that blue dress.
Two, John Yoo’s critics are not just disgruntled “Monday morning quarterbacks”. First, many of his most far-fetched legal opinions were and are secret, which makes it hard to criticize them during the game. Second, those who knew about them and knew the law, such as Professor Goldsmith, quickly relegated them to the dustbin as bad law and bad policy.
It was this taking away of their legal fig leaf that gave Cheney and Addington such biblical dyspepsia. They have since fought prolonged and bitter bureaucratic disputes to keep the public from finding out that their marvelous purple pill was just coated sugar.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 32
I hope this will be FDL’s next foray into justice. There is something so rotten here and it was left untouched for so long. But it must be uncovered.
Kevster @ 39
I agree. The AGs are almost a diversion from the real stuff.
It’s easy to be paranoid about all of this, but the issues raised in Christy’s piece and by her readers deserve much more attention by Congress. The justifications for impeachment are everywhere, and I have finally decided for myself that letting BushCo off because the Clinton impeachment was so sick is not enough justification to let all of this slide. Keep working folks!
kirk murphy @ 181
I suspect, quite a lot
kirk murphy @ 183
You are right, and I was imprecise. You put much better than I did
selise @ 186
I agree, and I think I am closer to Kirk Murphy here.
Most people gravitate toward one or the other of these paths in their attempt to lead a life of integrity. Very few can do both methods well. Or consistently.
newtonusr @ 189
Exactly, which is how people of good concsience end up hesitating trying to find the right answer, and why they are paralyzed with the desicion making process–Thugs and criminals take over our government
THAT is the manipulation!
looseheadprop @ 199
Point taken. Who ya gonna call – your priest or your lawyer?
Hello Congress? When does Mrs. Ashcroft testify under oath???
Harriett @ 201
I’m trying to remember if Chimpy has cited ExecPriv to prevent it… *g*
looseheadprop @ 178 -
some follow on thoughts to my reponse to you above…
with regard to “rule followers”, you write:
i know you’re right on this because i have experienced the paralysis you describe – in a situation that is slightly similar involving intellectual dishonesty in science (actually i’m still struggling with it).
i don’t have a problem with speaking up within the organization, but i was manipulated just as you describe… and even though my stupid/ feeble attempts only corrected the problem once out of the 5 different times it happened – i didn’t blow the whistle externally… maybe i should have, indeed maybe i still should (in an effort to make amends). so, i’m still trying to figure this out – but i don’t think following the rules laid down by one’s boss and mentor is always the right thing to do.
and i sure hope comey is angsting about what to do as much as (or preferably more than) i am.
looseheadprop @ 199
lhp – many, many thanks for your response!
….
of course. i’m describing the goal we strive towards as we aspire to live with integrity. i wasn’t saying that it was achievable (mostly, i think i fail miserably).
what i took issue with was your statement “People of integrity are rule followers”…. which you said, i think, was the point you were trying to make.
if we look to examples of people who exemplify the highest level of integrity – it is those who knew exactly when to break the rules… and when not to.
that is the standard, i think, integrity requires we aspire to – regardless of which path we might reflexively choose if we were to act without reflection.
if we agree on this point… then i think i’m still not getting something.
Christy at 32,
Somewhere in comments to blogs in the last couple of weeks I read someone speculating that perhaps the reason Specter talks up his outrage at the administration’s illegal practices but then never translates that into a vote against them is that “they” (read Rove and his minions) have something on him and he’s being blackmailed. It makes sense to me! That’s exactly how Rove got this clown into the White House in the first place. Correction, that’s exactly how Rove got this clown to be governor of Texas. Dig up dirt on your opponents if you can; if you can’t find any dirt, fabricate smears; stoop to anything to win, no matter how low; just make sure you can’t be connected to the lies and dirty tricks.
Am getting here way too late, as usual, but just want to mention this.
Did y’all notice how the Newsweak (misspelling intentional) article neglected to call Comey by his proper name at the time of the hospital visit, namely ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAL?
Instead, they just keep calling him “Deputy” — and neglect to tell readers of this article the final word uttered by the deathly ill Ashcroft:
“It doesn’t matter anyway. I’m not the Attorney General, he (Comey) is.”
Why would the authors want to avoid highlighting yet another HIGHLY ILLEGAL aspect of this nefarious mafioso bullying episode?
the thing that slays me and never seems to be mentioned is the sheer audacity of Bush. Ashcroft in intensive care stands up to Bush in favor of the rule of law.
What happens after that..???
Ashcroft ends up resigning and Bush appoints in his place
the guy who was sent to Ashcrofts hospital room!!!!
What a gigantic F*** you from
Bush to Ashcroft and to the American people.
By this appointment Bush has told us in no uncertain terms that to him the rule of law means nothing….
Here’s an idea. Can’t congress, through the power of the purse, simply suspend Gonzalez’ salary? As in, while he may serve at the “pleasure of the president” he works for the American people. He’s taken “responsibility” and “accountability” Surely our representatives can say, fine, this is your disciplinary action. And to Bush, you can keep him, but we ain’t paying for him….
I just wonder what Ashcroft’s doctor was doing the night of March 10, 2004? Did the White House call him, too? Did George W. Bush personally call him? Did Mrs. Ashcroft call him to let him know that visitors from the White House were about to descend upon her gravely ill husband in his intensive care hospital bed?
For this to remain a secret for over three years, the doctors and nurses at the hospital must have been ordered not to discuss what happened that night. Many, on other floors and in other departments, would not have known about Gonzales’ and Card’s visit, but any on duty at the time of their visit to ICU would have been witnesses to Gonzales’ and Card’s arrival shortly after the arrival of Comey and apparently a bunch of FBI agents. They would have known who Ashcroft was and definitely would have realized something significant was happening with all these “after-hours” visitors showing up.
Of course, there is the issue of hospital confidentiality, but one still has to wonder what role Ashcroft’s doctor played in this, or the hospital administrators, for that matter.
Phoenix Woman @ 124
NO, imagine Anne Colter after she gained 40 lbs.
I have been wondering about this: suppose 30 DOJ officials had resigned over points of law when confronting the President. Ashcroft, it seems, did exactly that when he got well enough to see his days were numbered, as did others. So what did the President do? He puts Gonzales in position. Almost as bold and baldfaced as nominating Harriet Miers. My point is this: 30 DOJ officials resigning probably would have generated headlines for a week, but it would have altered nothing. I do not know Mueller’s political history, but everything I read suggests these sterling 30 were principled, but Republican to the core for the most part, and would have simply kept their mouths shut and let it all play out on Bush’s watch without uttering a word. Look, they’re doing it NOW. Why is it we still don’t know who authored the language inserted in Homeland Security at Specter’s office and whose brainchild it was? Why is it USA’s are still reluctant to speak to the Press about what went on during their tenure? Why is it everyone is being so polite to Monica Goodling and Kyle Sampson? Why is it Gonzales is still in office? For all this hand-wringing about how what we know is only the tip of scary iceberg, you have to ask what all these principled neo-heroes think they are doing by zipping their lips.