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	<title>Comments on: Trashing Organic Standards</title>
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		<title>By: kirk murphy</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/05/26/trashing-organic-standards/#comment-722192</link>
		<dc:creator>kirk murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2007 21:41:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/05/26/trashing-organic-standards/#comment-722192</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;swissffun, perhaps you have had not had the opportunity to review the links in 150 and the toxicity described therein.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;after review of the links and referenced studies, please do feel free to share with us the results of studies (NOT funded / designed by industry) in peer-reviewed journals which replicate the cited studies and fail to demonstrate toxicity.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I thank you for your dedicication to the scientific method, and await the results of your good faith research into these matters.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>swissffun, perhaps you have had not had the opportunity to review the links in 150 and the toxicity described therein.</p>
<p>after review of the links and referenced studies, please do feel free to share with us the results of studies (NOT funded / designed by industry) in peer-reviewed journals which replicate the cited studies and fail to demonstrate toxicity.</p>
<p>I thank you for your dedicication to the scientific method, and await the results of your good faith research into these matters.</p>
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		<title>By: swissffun</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/05/26/trashing-organic-standards/#comment-721776</link>
		<dc:creator>swissffun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2007 16:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/05/26/trashing-organic-standards/#comment-721776</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;hmm MD doesn’t mean intelligent nor factual. GMOs are NOT toxic food. You may not want them, but stop using misinformation to argue your point. Well not toxic to humans, but I assume you’re not arguing against toxicity to insects!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;and in fact the ORGANIC industry has vigourously fought to retain the use of copper pesticides and antibiotics in plant agriculture. In the US, organic fruit growers are the single largest consumers of both copper and antibiotics, both of which have genuine environmental toxicity problems!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hmm MD doesn’t mean intelligent nor factual. GMOs are NOT toxic food. You may not want them, but stop using misinformation to argue your point. Well not toxic to humans, but I assume you’re not arguing against toxicity to insects!</p>
<p>and in fact the ORGANIC industry has vigourously fought to retain the use of copper pesticides and antibiotics in plant agriculture. In the US, organic fruit growers are the single largest consumers of both copper and antibiotics, both of which have genuine environmental toxicity problems!</p>
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		<title>By: McWyrm</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/05/26/trashing-organic-standards/#comment-721562</link>
		<dc:creator>McWyrm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2007 11:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/05/26/trashing-organic-standards/#comment-721562</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-720727&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Kirk James Murphy, M.D. @ 33&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Wow.  Thanks for the thoughtful response.  I agree that GM food presents potential risks that should be throughly investigated, though  I tend to find that a great deal of anti-GM rhetoric tends to veer dangerously close to xenophobic hysteria.   I’m happy to see that your stance is more substantive.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;My questions re:chemical fish were sincere.  Thanks for the details.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-720727"><em>Kirk James Murphy, M.D. @ 33</em></a></p>
<p>Wow.  Thanks for the thoughtful response.  I agree that GM food presents potential risks that should be throughly investigated, though  I tend to find that a great deal of anti-GM rhetoric tends to veer dangerously close to xenophobic hysteria.   I’m happy to see that your stance is more substantive.</p>
<p>My questions re:chemical fish were sincere.  Thanks for the details.</p>
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		<title>By: farang</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/05/26/trashing-organic-standards/#comment-721553</link>
		<dc:creator>farang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2007 10:39:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/05/26/trashing-organic-standards/#comment-721553</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Good God, I had no idea of these level of poisoning we are doing to ourselves.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thanks for this post.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Eat veggies and fruit from Round Valley, (Covelo) California, they have had a ban on spraying in their valley for decades, and Gerbers purchases the pear from their orchards for baby food.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I always wondered why I felt so “fresh” eating and breathing up in that mountain valley, now I know.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Man, scary stuff.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good God, I had no idea of these level of poisoning we are doing to ourselves.</p>
<p>Thanks for this post.</p>
<p>Eat veggies and fruit from Round Valley, (Covelo) California, they have had a ban on spraying in their valley for decades, and Gerbers purchases the pear from their orchards for baby food.</p>
<p>I always wondered why I felt so “fresh” eating and breathing up in that mountain valley, now I know.</p>
<p>Man, scary stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Arnie</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/05/26/trashing-organic-standards/#comment-721549</link>
		<dc:creator>Arnie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2007 09:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/05/26/trashing-organic-standards/#comment-721549</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;What a magnificent posting to greet the day (with). Anything written under the marque kirk murphy was guaranteed good stuff, now there is a new/improved marque to recognise, adaptations. But then, almost all commentators have that quality at fdl with rare exception. Thanks for such informative and essential sharing of information.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The gas used to ripen produce iirc is ethylene which is an &lt;a href=&quot;http://http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene&quot;&gt;organic hormone&lt;/a&gt; found in ripening bananas (for instance).&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a magnificent posting to greet the day (with). Anything written under the marque kirk murphy was guaranteed good stuff, now there is a new/improved marque to recognise, adaptations. But then, almost all commentators have that quality at fdl with rare exception. Thanks for such informative and essential sharing of information.</p>
<p>The gas used to ripen produce iirc is ethylene which is an <a href="http://http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene">organic hormone</a> found in ripening bananas (for instance).</p>
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		<title>By: spiderpaws</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/05/26/trashing-organic-standards/#comment-721453</link>
		<dc:creator>spiderpaws</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2007 05:46:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/05/26/trashing-organic-standards/#comment-721453</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Bravo for writing this and showing us the statisitcs. If I didn’t spend all my spare time rescuing abandoned animals I would take up this cause. I have been ranting about it for 25 years and now I will use your statistics when I rant… thanks.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bravo for writing this and showing us the statisitcs. If I didn’t spend all my spare time rescuing abandoned animals I would take up this cause. I have been ranting about it for 25 years and now I will use your statistics when I rant… thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: cancer_cures</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/05/26/trashing-organic-standards/#comment-721116</link>
		<dc:creator>cancer_cures</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2007 03:12:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/05/26/trashing-organic-standards/#comment-721116</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This is more than just this administration’s problem. When it comes to low costs, corporations will of course take the bait. And with the money they ’save’ it goes to buying congress so they don’t create laws which would punish their profits. Both aisles are filled with sellouts. Sellouts to big media, software, oil, auto industry, China, agriculture, security, industry, pharmaceuticals, and yes, pesticides..&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Can we do something about political contributions? Ethics comittees are always busting congress members because they are profitting from these contributions. Even if they do not directly profit, it is certainly fun to go to political parties, conventions, and meetings, where it is a $500 or $1000 per head event.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s seeming as if congress are the gate keepers to economic progress in this country. You don’t pay, you don’t stay.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is more than just this administration’s problem. When it comes to low costs, corporations will of course take the bait. And with the money they ’save’ it goes to buying congress so they don’t create laws which would punish their profits. Both aisles are filled with sellouts. Sellouts to big media, software, oil, auto industry, China, agriculture, security, industry, pharmaceuticals, and yes, pesticides..</p>
<p>Can we do something about political contributions? Ethics comittees are always busting congress members because they are profitting from these contributions. Even if they do not directly profit, it is certainly fun to go to political parties, conventions, and meetings, where it is a $500 or $1000 per head event.</p>
<p>It’s seeming as if congress are the gate keepers to economic progress in this country. You don’t pay, you don’t stay.</p>
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		<title>By: kirk murphy</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/05/26/trashing-organic-standards/#comment-721066</link>
		<dc:creator>kirk murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2007 02:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/05/26/trashing-organic-standards/#comment-721066</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-720987&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;gary1 @ 149&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;While most of this seemed to make pretty good sense, this unsupported (and, I suspect, insupportable) statement leaped out at me:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;
 . . . protecting against &lt;b&gt;foods that are themselves toxic (genetically engineered/modified foods – aka GMOs)&lt;/b&gt; . . . &lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Surprising that someone trained in science (i.e., as an M.D.) would make such an obviously controversial claim, but provide no supporting documentation.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Doc?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Thanks for your question, gary1.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;GMO &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/031307T.shtml&quot;&gt;corn&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href=&quot;http://environment.independent.co.uk/article337253.ece&quot;&gt;soy&lt;/a&gt;, and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.grain.org/seedling/?id=49&quot;&gt;potatoes&lt;/a&gt; show toxic effects on living animals.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hope this helps and these links help.  And I hope I don’t seem rude in being so rushed, but just caught your question before other tasks call.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Happy to discuss more in the future - thanks again for your question.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-720987"><em>gary1 @ 149</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>While most of this seemed to make pretty good sense, this unsupported (and, I suspect, insupportable) statement leaped out at me:
</p>
<blockquote><p>
 . . . protecting against <b>foods that are themselves toxic (genetically engineered/modified foods – aka GMOs)</b> . . . </p></blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p>Surprising that someone trained in science (i.e., as an M.D.) would make such an obviously controversial claim, but provide no supporting documentation.</p>
<p>Doc?</p>
<p>Thanks for your question, gary1.</p>
<p>GMO <a href="http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/031307T.shtml">corn</a>, <a href="http://environment.independent.co.uk/article337253.ece">soy</a>, and <a href="http://www.grain.org/seedling/?id=49">potatoes</a> show toxic effects on living animals.  </p>
<p>Hope this helps and these links help.  And I hope I don’t seem rude in being so rushed, but just caught your question before other tasks call.  </p>
<p>Happy to discuss more in the future &#8211; thanks again for your question.</p>
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		<title>By: gary1</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/05/26/trashing-organic-standards/#comment-720987</link>
		<dc:creator>gary1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2007 01:46:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/05/26/trashing-organic-standards/#comment-720987</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;While most of this seemed to make pretty good sense, this unsupported (and, I suspect, insupportable) statement leaped out at me:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;
 . . . protecting against &lt;b&gt;foods that are themselves toxic (genetically engineered/modified foods – aka GMOs)&lt;/b&gt; . . . &lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Surprising that someone trained in science (i.e., as an M.D.) would make such an obviously controversial claim, but provide no supporting documentation.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Doc?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While most of this seemed to make pretty good sense, this unsupported (and, I suspect, insupportable) statement leaped out at me:
</p>
<blockquote><p>
 . . . protecting against <b>foods that are themselves toxic (genetically engineered/modified foods – aka GMOs)</b> . . . </p></blockquote>
<p>Surprising that someone trained in science (i.e., as an M.D.) would make such an obviously controversial claim, but provide no supporting documentation.</p>
<p>Doc?</p>
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		<title>By: Kirk James Murphy, M.D.</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/05/26/trashing-organic-standards/#comment-720950</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk James Murphy, M.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 May 2007 01:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/05/26/trashing-organic-standards/#comment-720950</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-720749&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;juslin @ 52&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;again BIG AG overrules us…toxic foods are reasonable so folks will buy them particularly if there’s a large family involved. it’d be nice if the local farmers markets would be able to accept “family first” cards - but i guess that’d be too much to ask&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;juslin - just saw your comment.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Many farmers markets here in CA accept WIC and Food Stamps, and farmers at Santa Monica’s (very well-established) Arizona St. markets were discussing how to do cards when I was last there.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The cards are a real puzzle.  As part of the War on the Poor, electronic cards for public benefits demand precision and accuracy at the risk of criminal sanctions.  The usual farmer’s stall practice of rounding down to the nearest dime or quarter “misrepresents” pricing - but if the farmers charge precisely to the benefit cards, yet keep the same practices with everyone else, they may be discriminating against Federal beneficiaries.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Precisely charging for every weighed item and toting up all the cents - and making change - is realllly slow.  At peak hours the Arizona St. markets are already clogged to maximal safe densities….&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A card-swipe terminal for each farmer would be ruinously expensive (no mains electricity or landlines available).  A “check-out” station for  dozens of farmers over four blocks doesn’t work: supermarkets have walls for a reason.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You are raising a realy good point.  I’d sure love to see someone on the Lake come up with the answer.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;(no snark intended.  I sure haven’t imagined the solution, so my hat’s off to the first woman - or advanced guy :) - who can)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-720749"><em>juslin @ 52</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>again BIG AG overrules us…toxic foods are reasonable so folks will buy them particularly if there’s a large family involved. it’d be nice if the local farmers markets would be able to accept “family first” cards &#8211; but i guess that’d be too much to ask</p>
</blockquote>
<p>juslin &#8211; just saw your comment.</p>
<p>Many farmers markets here in CA accept WIC and Food Stamps, and farmers at Santa Monica’s (very well-established) Arizona St. markets were discussing how to do cards when I was last there.</p>
<p>The cards are a real puzzle.  As part of the War on the Poor, electronic cards for public benefits demand precision and accuracy at the risk of criminal sanctions.  The usual farmer’s stall practice of rounding down to the nearest dime or quarter “misrepresents” pricing &#8211; but if the farmers charge precisely to the benefit cards, yet keep the same practices with everyone else, they may be discriminating against Federal beneficiaries.  </p>
<p>Precisely charging for every weighed item and toting up all the cents &#8211; and making change &#8211; is realllly slow.  At peak hours the Arizona St. markets are already clogged to maximal safe densities….</p>
<p>A card-swipe terminal for each farmer would be ruinously expensive (no mains electricity or landlines available).  A “check-out” station for  dozens of farmers over four blocks doesn’t work: supermarkets have walls for a reason.</p>
<p>You are raising a realy good point.  I’d sure love to see someone on the Lake come up with the answer.</p>
<p>(no snark intended.  I sure haven’t imagined the solution, so my hat’s off to the first woman &#8211; or advanced guy :) &#8211; who can)</p>
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