There has been a lot of grist from the Beltway rumor mill of late on Scooter Libby and his upcoming sentencing hearing -- but it has amounted to a whole lot of speculation and innuendo and wishful thinking, and not much substance with any real factual basis in which to dig. But today, Josh Gerstein has a piece in the NYSun which hits some of the legal points that I've been mulling recently as well, and so I want to go over a few things that Josh is writing about in more detail. (And a H/T to reader Helen who caught the article around the same time that I did.)
Let me start by saying that Josh has done some great reporting on the Libby case all along -- even though I don't always agree with his conclusions -- and that he has especially good sources in the "Team Libby" donation front (I will note for the record that Barbara Comstock was especially keen to chat up all the reporters in the courtroom -- well, except for me and Marcy and Jane, who were recipients only of her stink-eye glare -- to build media ties where she could, but I don't know that she succeeded with Josh or, more likely, whether he built up those contacts independently over the more than two years that he's been closely following the case. But I take any reporting and quotes with a grain of salt, as should all of you.). Anyway, here are the things that I think are worth either dissecting or amplifying.
Prosecutors and defense lawyers for a former White House aide, I. Lewis Libby Jr., face a deadline Friday to give their final recommendations on the sentence he should receive for his conviction on charges of perjury, obstruction of justice, and lying to the FBI.However, the real cliffhanger at the sentencing hearing, set for June 5, is not what punishment Judge Reggie Walton imposes, but whether he allows Libby to remain free while pursuing his appeal. (emphasis mine)
I checked the Pacer system this morning and didn't find any filings on this as yet. Lawyers tend to work right up to the deadline, though, so I'd expect things to be filed sometime this afternoon. I will keep an eye out for them this weekend and report back if and when they go live. If any readers catch them, and are willing to send me a copy, I would truly appreciate it: reddhedd at firedoglake dot com.
Gerstein's sources are correct that the question of Libby being allowed to remain free on bond awaiting appeal is a big one -- because, generally speaking, such bond is only granted where a substantial question of law or fairness is substantially at issue in the case. Here is former USA Roscoe Howard Jr. in Gerstein's article:
A former U.S. attorney for the capital, Roscoe Howard Jr., said he doubts Judge Walton will allow Libby to delay serving his sentence until his appeals are resolved. "I don't see that here," the ex-prosecutor said.Federal law dictates that bail pending appeal be denied unless the appeal raises "a substantial question of law or fact" that could reverse the conviction or have a significant affect on Libby's sentence.
"Most people I talked to who followed the trial thought that the government's evidence, regardless of whether you though the prosecution was proper, was pretty strong," Mr. Howard said.
And, in the case of Mr. Libby, who was a public official in a substantial position of trust and a practicing lawyer to boot, the question of catching a break for bond in a conviction of multiple felonies involving deception and an attempt to subvert the integrity of the legal process is low, in my opinion -- not impossible, but it is a very, very steep hurdle for Libby's defense team to leap.
There is also some discussion of sentencing in the article:
Libby faces a maximum possible sentence of 25 years in prison. However, lawyers not involved in the case said federal sentencing guidelines seem to call for 15 to 21 months of incarceration. Mr. Berman said there could be "a lot of flex" in the calculations, but not enough to allow the judge to impose probation instead of jail. "I would be shocked if the guidelines add up to allow for a non-prison sentence," the professor said.Under a 2005 Supreme Court decision, Judge Walton has to consider the guidelines, but is not obligated to follow them. "He'd have to say, ‘I don't think the guidelines are appropriate under the circumstances,' and he'd have to explain," Mr. Berman said. Prosecutors would be free to appeal a sentence below the range and the defense could appeal one above it.
This matches up with the sentencing guidelines calculations that Jeralyn did shortly after conviction, and from my read and my own calculations I think this is about right. I'd look for there to be no downward departure, unless there has been some behind-the-scenes proffer of assistance from Libby for further prosecutions down the road and, as we have heard nothing -- and I mean NOTHING -- about that, I doubt it has happened. Just based on my own observations of Libby, I doubt he'll give up the "loyal soldier" persona that he has adopted to shield the Vice President from any further questioning, whether or not Cheney deserves the loyalty from him.
The fact is that where you have a defendant who has not admitted guilt, where the government has had to go through a full trial, and where part of the defense strategy was to maintain a full claim of innocence -- it is very, very difficult for the judge to then accept a proffer of acceptance of responsibility from the defense. Libby will have an opportunity at the sentencing hearing to take the stand and place an acceptance of responsibility on the record and, also, will have had an opportunity to do so during the presentence investigation meetings with the federal probation officer who will have prepared the report for the judge with sentencing recommendations to the court.
But, in my experience with clients, doing so once you have already been convicted on multiple counts and where you try to skate the line of claiming innocence for appeal but appearing to have remorse -- not for what you did, but more for getting caught at it? Judges don't take too kindly to that...not at all. And Judge Walton has a reputation for issuing tough sentences, so we'll see on June 5th, I suppose, how much of an acceptance proffer that Libby was willing and able to give, and whether anyone bought it.
And then, there is this bit:
The defense is expected to give Judge Walton letters written on Libby's behalf by his friends and supporters. "I just basically outlined all Scooter Libby's virtues and strong points and talked about his integrity," a former ambassador who has raised money for Libby's defense, Richard Carlson, said. " Libby's been a great public servant and I hope the judge takes that into consideration, particularly when deciding whether he can stay home with his family and continue working on all of the appeals."
Why yes, that is Tucker Carlson's daddy, who is one of the big shots in the Libby defense fund and yet, strangely, Tucker never bothers to publicly acknowledge that fact when he rants about what a meanie Pat Fitzgerald is on MSNBC. Can you say "conflict of interest"? I know that I can. How about "blatant self-dealing and parental interest promotion without a disclaimer"? Or "public relations collusion"? But I digress...
Mr. Howard noted that the emphasis on Libby's history of public service, which dates back to a State Department stint in the 1980s, could hurt the former official by underscoring that he abused a position of trust. "They don't reward you for that. They punish you for it," the former prosecutor said.Libby's claim of innocence also makes it difficult for him to express the contrition that can bring a lenient sentence. "It's tough to sit up there and say … ‘None of this happened,' but he needs to address the court somehow. He's got to," Mr. Howard said. (emphasis mine)
This is exactly right. When you are in a substantial position of public trust, and you abuse that position and, further, you do so in a manner that attempts to undercut the system of justice, you generally are not given a lot of sympathy from judges during sentencing. If anything, you are punished for abusing the public's trust because you ought to have known better and you have a duty to live up to a higher standard of conduct by virtue of that public trust.
Indeed, Mr. Libby is doubly cursed in this because he is also a lawyer who worked with clients on white collar criminal cases and should have been very well versed in the penalties for perjury, obstruction and lying to federal investigators. Lawyers are expected to live up to their own standards of ethics and Libby's failure -- and, truly, his blatant, repeated lying on tape before the grand jury which everyone got to hear throughout the trial -- is something that Judge Walton will consider when making a determination on an upward or downward sentencing departure.
The Bush Administration may not take ethical considerations, the rule of law or a failure to live up to their fiduciary obligations to the public or the Constitution seriously but, in my experience, most federal judges are sticklers for that sort of thing. How inconvenient for Libby, eh?
But it is this bit at the very end of the article that most fascinated me:
Mr. Carlson said he wants Mr. Bush to offer a pardon, even if there is some political fallout. "People I know and admire are hoping the president will step up and do the right thing," Mr. Carlson said.
Well, that's as blatant a nudge at Dick Cheney and George Bush to "do right by Scooter" as I have ever seen in print. Could it be that the Veep has washed his hands of his loyal boy and the defense fund folks have soured on covering his bets? You will recall the Cheney I haven't spoken to Scooter since his conviction line in an interview some weeks ago. Or, more likely by my read, could it be that this was meant instead as a nudge to the White House -- by inference from pals of Scooter and/or Cheney, if not by name -- about what could come out should they (or at least people that Mr. Carlson "knows and admires" -- read: pals of Scooter and/or Cheney) be displeased? In other words, is this a sort of politely worded veiled nudge?
My oh my, the possibilities here are quite interesting. And I will be keeping my ear to the ground on this one in the coming days. More as I get it.
One more news bit of note: Judge Walton has also recently been appointed to the FISA court. No surprise there, given his breadth of experience in handling classified matters (especially after the nightmare rounds of CIPA hearings for the Libby case alone). This is a separate duty, above and beyond his regular work at the DC Circuit, and will not change his status as a judge in the Libby matter. I had some questions on that earlier (from reader despairing and others), and wanted to be certain that was clear.
(H/T to Extreme Accounting for the graphic. Priceless.)
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Fitz and Waxman
My lucky day. A Zed while on a road trip and poaching WiFi from a house 250′ away.
Little Scooter Libby in a tiny orange jumpsuit would cheer me up some.
Shorter Cheney: We don’t have time right now for your petty little problems, Scooter.
-S
I can’t comment, as there is an on-going investigation. Or, an on-going sentence consideration. An on-going something or other.
Must have been a short letter, filled with lots of bright shiny things.
Given Walton’s general performance during the trial, I’d say he’s pretty good at not getting distracted by BSTs.
Honestly- after yesterdays desaster, the death sentence for tens of thousands: Who really cares if “Libby” gets behind bars for a few weeks/months or not? (I bet my sweet … he will get away. So what- who would be surprised?)
Strategerie @ 5
Yeah - Too busy taking care of the new grandson…
June 5th, hmm. Anyone going to blog this?
If the people who make the law (politicans, lawyers and the rich) are held to a higher standard of punishment then everyone will think the system is fair. I’m guessing Libby does less time than a first time burglar caught with a car stereo its easy to be merciful when you can see yourself in a Defendants shoes.
Strategerie @ 5
Amen to that.
No tbecause I relish the though of any man having to go to jail, but because it’s about time one of these trust-fund neocons had an accountability moment.
First of many, I pray.
I bet KKKarl is watching what happens to Scooter very closely.
Huh, Karl?
Rainer at 8 — Well, aren’t you a proactive little ray of sunshine today?
lisadawn82 @ 9
Proof that God has a sense of humor.
OldCoastie @ 4
Darth Cheney in a tiny orange jumpsuit would cheer many of us far more.
Isn’t everyone in this administration deathly allergic to this?
***Bush fantasies are a threat to my children.***
Christy,
I assume the PSI Report is finished and in Walton’s hands. Does the report, along with letters of recommendation and other enclosures, become public record after the sentencing hearing?
So, did Mrs. Scooter back off of her angrily muttered comments post-verdict?
Is Scooter stupid enough to suffer disbarment and a stint in prison for people who now pretend to not know him, and refuse to stand up for him after he did their dirty work?
Inquiring minds want to know.
-S
Walton on the FISA court?
I never really trusted him after seeing how the Sibel Edmonds thing unfolded…
I wonder if he will ever disclose his financial records
LINK
Ed*ard at 18 — I think the way those are handled varies by jurisdiction — and I’m sorry, but I didn’t practice in the DC Cir. so I don’t know how they generally handle PSI disclosure post-sentencing. Here, they go into the file in a somewhat redacted form so you don’t have addresses and phone numbers and such, as I recall (although it has been several years since I represented a criminal defendant in federal court, so that may also have changed here as well). Anyone currently practicing in the DC Cir. who can speak to their practice on PSIs? I’d love to know the answer on this as well.
When Scouter told the Press Valerie Palme was a Spy, Scooter told Al Queida that Valerie Palme was a Spy! When Scouter told the Press that Valerie Palme was a spy Scouter told the Iranians! I REALLY HOPE THE JUDGE KEEPS THIS IN MIND WHEN HE SENTENCES THIS WORM. I want him in County No Club Fed! In County “accidents ” happen and nobody sees a thing. If normal Americans have to go to regular jail then so should our politicans!
Thank you for all this Christy,
I’m kinda looking forward to seeing him in an orange jumpsuit on the 5th.
Immediately following the trial/conviction, notwithstanding the neocon push to get Libby pardoned, I thought the political price to Bush was too high. Now I’m not so sure. With every scandal, Bush seems to be pushing back the boundaries of what he can do and get away with, and I’m afraid our collective ability to be outraged and have it make a difference is weaker now than it was then. Maybe it’s just yesterday. The man has subverted the entire administration of justice and his AG is still AG; would we bring out the pitchforks for a pardon?
Strategerie @ 19
maybe she’s the one calling the tabloids claiming that Laura Bush is staying at a hotel ;)
scarecrow @ 25
You just channeled what I was thinking.
Elliott at 24 — Here’s hoping. You can never be certain of anything in criminal matters, to be honest, and I’ve learned to not hold my breath but just wait and see what happens. But I think precedent weighs in favor of a remand to custody in this case — but then I haven’t seen the pre-sentence investigation report either. Guess we’ll see one way or the other on the 5th, but I thought you all would appreciate an update. :)
scarecrow @ 25
I’d get out the scythe for that!
scarecrow @ 25
That’s just utterly depressing.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 28
oh you KNOW we do!! Thanks for laying it out.
Question for the kind folks here. Sorta o/t, sorta not.
If PR is what matters since Reagan was in office, it seems like there’s been copious amounts of negative PR for Bushco. And it still doesn’t matter. In the past, the tainted official would have resigned when caught out. Nowadays it seems they auger in (Rove, Gonzales, Wolfie, etc.)
I mean, the whole posture is oh yeah, whatdya gonna do about it? So what’s left when reason has left long ago and PR is now irrelevant?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 22
That’s what I thought. I used to read unredacted PSI reports sent to me by the Dept. of Corrections when I had to review inmate files to determine if they were acceptable to place in a halfway house I ran, but when I was doing research on my own on felons or ex-felons, the microfiche files sometimes had name or other redactions, but not all that often.
lisa — Sorry. I’m going back to my cornfield and pretend to scare birds.
OK, disregard #32…
…read what scarecrow said @ 25
I wonder how many people are thinking this cuz I know I wonder about it. What happened to honor?
I just don’t see how a bunch of letters attesting to Scooter’s integrity are going to help him here. He’s a convicted liar, based on evidence from more than half a dozen witnesses that convinced a jury beyond a reasonable doubt. The evidence against him was so overwhelming that his own defense team hardly bothered to defend him from the charges. Mother Teresa would have had a hard time asserting a reputation for integrity after a trial like this. There’s just no way in hell that Dick Cheney’s right-hand-man is going to pull it off.
Add to that the fact that this supposed paragon of virtue knew that, if he testified in his own defense, he’d end up looking EVEN MORE guilty. His team has gamed this trial at every step. Judge Walton should start off his sentencing ruling by saying, “Mr Libby should sit in jail for at least as long as he’s been wasting this court’s valuable time.”
I vote for Libby to spend his sentence in Guantanamo. Call it a test run for the rest of the bilges in this administration.
Let me make myself perfectly clear. I don’t like what Jerome Corsi did to John Kerry. However, I heard him interviewed this morning on Washington Journal, and his argument regarding the recent continuance of government directive is compelling. The reason I’m posting it in this thread is because it lays out a case for the Administration’s hubris mindset of which the Libby case such an example. Here is his article:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/n.....E_ID=55824
June Fifth should be an exciting day — but does anyone think TradMed will cover the Libby sentencing with the wall-to-wall gravitas they’ll devote to the Paris Hilton and Tom Sizemore reporting-to-jail stories?
Hoping for a three-fer on June Fifth: all miscreants go directly to jail!
Teddy at 39 — Good lord, man — Tom Sizemore is going to jail again? Nooooooooo…
/snark (Seriously, though, I hadn’t heard that one for the 5th as well. Will be interesting to see which perp walk gets the most wall to wall…)
Phule @ 37
Amen.
Scooter please eat the brown peaches they have such a healthy cleansing effect of the bowls. Which surprisingly won’t be a problem after all the Dept of Corrections seems to think that the same amount of food that leaves a short seventeen yr old hungry will feed a 6 1/2 foot 300 pound inmate who will ” ask” if you have any extra food (or so I observed). Just think about how much weight you will lose, the stomache cramps you get from the food YOU DO eat will make you completly forget about eating. Oh and that rummor about getting respect in jail by picking a fight with the biggest guy COMPLETELY TRUE Honest! “fingers crossed”
Jwoods @ 20
What does Judge Walton’s appointment to the FISA court start? What’s the deal with Sibel Edmonds?
I want Karl, Dick, George, Condi, Donald, Karen, Alberto, Harriet and some others “on the verge”.
TeddySanFran @ 39
I dunno, but I sure hope there’s at least one camera there so I get to see that smug mug booked.
Hi Christy
Do yo know if Scooter has any previous convictions for anything that might enter into the decision on sentencing?
scarecrow @ 34
As long as you keep scaring the shit outta the White House sparrows, you’re A-OK in my book, scarecrow!
We’ve got Libby. Wow!
did someone say PACER? haha. will check again this evening and manana. not to worry, Redd. we are on it.
Milan at 46 — Not that I’m aware of…
From Minn. Star Tribune:
LINK
I think he is pissed.
TeddySanFran @ 47
Had a chat with that bird; it was a miss; aiming for head. Need more practice runs, which is why I’ve changed shirts. It’s the least I can do.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 40
TMZ on Sizemore
And my party continues to move in mysterious ways.
Things Come Undone—I think that’s kind of mean-spirited. We can hope for Libby to get his punishment without additionally wishing that he would get sick or attacked.
LS @ 38
Too frightening.
Cspan 2 seems to be rerunning the Conyers Goodling hearing now and has scheduled a program on post-Katrina housing for 8pm eastern.
LS @ 38
It scares me to death that no one seems able to counter this directive. Where is Congress in all this? Isn’t there any way to prevent this obviously planned takeover from happening?
“Attorney Thomas Heffelfinger on Thursday defended his work on Indian issues and accused Justice Department………..”
Guest appearance at the lake, perhaps? I’d like to see just how pissed he is.
“People I know and admire are hoping the president will step up and do the right thing,” Mr. Carlson said.
hearing Aspens turning again.
OT, but I’ve been thinking about the Goodling case this morning and wanted to get this observation out into the discourse.
Over and over again we use the word ‘politicization’ to describe what’s been going on at the DoJ. It’s not wrong, but there are two problems with using this description so frequently.
1) It creates a perception, especially among people who would rather downplay it or remain uninterested, that, “Well, it’s *all* just politics, innit?”
2) It’s becoming seriously ‘one-note’. Yes, it’s an important note, probably the most important note. But we need to get some variety in our language, or people will just tune out.
The thing is, Monica Goodling described actions that she admits included: researching and verifying the political affiliation of job applicants *for non-political career positions*, and using that information to reward Republicans and conservatives, and to exclude Democrats and liberals.
We have a word for this. It’s called patronage.
And when it’s done on a consistent basis, we call that a patronage machine.
It all sounds very Tammany Hall, but it’s not for nothing that we frequently accuse the Bush administration of following and implementing policies that take us right back to the 19th Century.
So I’d like to see this talking point raised and discussed more often: Monica Goodling was running a patronage machine.
It’s a problem that permeates the entire Bush administration; Goodling is just the first to so openly confess to it.
So we need to characterize the politicization of the civil service and non-political branches for what it is, the Bush Patronage Machine. It will give context to what we mean when we say ‘politicization’.
And, frankly, ‘patronage’ more appropriately and more strongly connotes the corruption of the Bush administration than the rather bland and bureaucratic sounding ‘politicization’.
Patronage. Use it. Patronage is the new black.
TiredFed @ 60
Yeah, that Carlson quote is one for the Libby Trial Scrapbook
TiredFed at 60 — I know. That sentence just leapt right off the page at me. Interesting, no?
Someone at .02 cents at SF Gate recommends that Libby’s sentence should be as long as any US soldier is in Iraq.
egregious @ 55
I think he should become the Birdman of Gitmo. In a better world, Scooter’s sole prison duty would be to train various birds to fly over Dick Cheney’s open-roofed cell and drop loads of guano on the Shooter.
Here are two books I will not be buying.
Books Paint Critical Portraits of Clinton
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....79_pf.html
TiredFed @ 60
I’ll bet that’s a lovely list of well-meaning folks.
Ed*ard Teller @ 65
so who is Scooter’s Burt Lancaster?
something is fundamentally broken in EVERY SINGLE BRANCH, DIVISION, AGENCY, and BUREAU of the US Govt, at least insofar as those institutions might once have been thought to be instruments of democratic self-governance…
the mandate of the busheviks from DAY ONE has been to attack, disable, and/or undermine any and everything to which the people could turn to oppose the wholesale corporate buy-out of the country.
Mission FUUKIN ACCOMPLISHED, friends…
.
Christy a question: is the opinion by the reporter in the MSNBC article you cite that Libby would likely not go to jail prior to the conclusion of the appeal be wrong? Wouldn’t the very fact that the case is high profile and do present substantial issues of law do so? If I recall, both Ollie North and Poindexter did not serve jail time pending their appeals.
AZ Matt @ 10
I thought Marcy was coming to town. Jane, too, perhaps, if she is up to it.
spurious @ 58
When he was interviewed by Brian Lamb this morning, he was basically pleading for Congress to investigate this, because they are again out of the loop. Furthermore, Lamb had a director of a “continuance” committee from the American Enterprise Institute on, who ultimately was agreeing with Corsi. This directive is similar to the idea that Bush can personally determine who is a terrorist in that he can personally decide what is an “emergency”. It says in the event of an emergency he deems an emergency, he will have sole control over everything. It is extremely important that this directive be publicized and examined.
So what we have to show for many years of Bush lawlessness is a third rate Cheney flunky. Who apparently doesn’t have enough sense to ‘come in’ out of the rain.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 63
in a spine tingling, hair-raising sort of way, yeas.
Scooter the sparrow.
Heres the letter from Move-on. I am waiting for my Congressperson to set up a meeting next week for me and my fellow Dems. As I reminded them He represents me too.
TiredFed at 73 — Yes, it is altogether too clear to me now when Tucker gets his penchant for subtlety. Ahem.
Great update Christy! I always love to read your analysis–while they are not ever dumbed down, they do lay out some complicated proceedures in very clear (and often clever!) language.
I don’t know if you have ever thought of this–but you would be a great teacher. I envision a sort of “Civics for Everybody” kind of class.
As for Bush, I think his back is up against the wall and he is screwed either way (and knows it). If he pardons Libby, he opens the door to even more attention on his disregard for the spirit and the letter of the law, and if he doesn’t, he pisses off his “real” base–by which I mean the likes of Mr Carlson and Babs Comstock. My guess is that he will do nothing until he leaves office, by which time Libby will have spent at least most of his sentence sitting in the clink and hopefully will have lost his law license.
TiredFed @ 73
Am I wrong, or is Dan Abram’s father also an attorney that has been involved in the Plame case? I might be mixing him up with Tucker. Which attorney originally represented Judith Miller?
egregious @ 55
County is like that for everyone sick you get used to, attacked well don’t be a jerk make a few friends. I don’t see why politicans got the priviledge to go “special jail”. Just think of what the deterrent effect would be like on Bushies if they had to go to County let alone Real Prison. The problem with Bushies is they think they are above the law and even if they are caught they won’t be punished. Yet they have no problem pushing for more time for the crimes committed by regular people!
LS at 78 — You would be correct. Floyd Abrams is Dan’s father, and also was the attorney who initially represented Judy Miller on her first amendment claims.
Thompson headlines Prescott Bush Awards
Character actor and former Sen. Fred Dalton Thompson’s next role is as president — he’s playing Ulysses S. Grant in the HBO film “Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee.”
Nope…
the foregoing brought to you by the Dept. of Short, Obvious Answers…which reminds you:
“In the Corporate State, ‘corporate’ media ARE the State Media.”
rinse and repeat
Woodhall at 77 - I think the pardon analysis you lay out is essentially on target. Especially with the overlay of the Wilsons’ civil suit and the renewed vigor with which Congress has been willing to provide oversight. A pardoned Libby would no longer be free to claim a 5th amendment privilege against self-incrimination in any hearing proceedings.
And thanks much for the kind words. :)
Thompson, a conservative from Tennessee inspired by the Barry Goldwater book “Conscience of a Conservative,” sought to rally party members for next year’s national elections.
“There’s a rumbling out in the country, my friends. I think they’re calling to us,” Thompson said.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 72
I suppose that’s one way to look at it. I prefer to look at it like this: Even with no Congressional oversight, the Vice-President’s right-hand man was convicted of four felonies and is now facing jail time. With the re-institution of Congressional oversight this past January–less than six months, if you’re counting–a number of the thugs at the Department of Justice have resigned, their vote-fixing scam is more or less neutralized, one high-ranking official has already cut an immunity deal to cover her rampant lawlessness, the Attorney General is facing no-confidence votes in the House and the Senate, and the President is yearning for Jimmy Carter’s approval ratings. So there’s definitely a silver lining here.
I actually commented awhile back that for me, the only suspense will be if Libby goes to jail or stays out on bail during appeal. Ms. Smith seems to think that there’s a strong chance he’ll go straight to jail. I hope she’s right!
But my only hesitation is the Martha Stewart case. Martha didn’t go straight to jail, and I “think” she was convicted of lying and so forth. BUT….she didn’t work for gov’t….maybe that’s the key.
Ghostman
What, nobody likes ‘patronage machine’?
I though it was good point, and an accurate characterization of Bush administration corruption.
Ah, well.
wgg: tokin liberal @ 69
Ths groundwork has systematically been laid for a takeover, and it must be prevented. But how? Bush controls the military and has subverted the justice system. Assuming that it could be made to act responsibly, what can congress do?
OKK at 84 — Thompson said “a rumbling out there in the country”? Maybe it was just gas… *g*
Just reading the bottom of the screen at cspan 2, Sec. Gates at the Naval Academy speaks of Congress and the press as being important to our freedom.
Signal?
OT and perfectly ridiculous, but my praying mantises finally hatched! I’ve been worried that the whacky winter did them in, but they just hatched out! they’re so teeny and tiny!
of course they’ll eat each other up, but there’s always at least one left standing to eat another day, that’s the way of the world.
woohoo!
egregious @ 90
That is interesting. It brings to mind the rumblings in the last couple of days of conflict in the WH between the Cheney camp and the Bush camp.
Elliott at 91 — How adorable. Kind of like the Bush minions at the DOJ are doing to themselves at the moment (do I hear a bus?)…
Kos has a post up about Liebermann.
Reid, fire his butt from his committees and let him go.
Elliott @ 92
Uh, you might want to try hamsters.
Elliott @ 91
Wow. Do they only eat each other? Do they eat other food? Can you separate them? Do you breed them or are they outside?
snowbird42 @ 94
I think they should literally run him out on an Amtrak rail.
Frank @ 85 — I’ve been concerned that “their vote-fixing scam” has not be neutralized. Why do you think it has? It seems to me that Monica’s hires are all still in place and ready for ‘08, but I’d love to believe otherwise.
What, resign?
OK–my guess is that Libby is going to spend his jail time writing a book, which will not “explain” anything about anything other than the fact that his friends Dick and the Chimp abandoned him in his time of need.
Or maybe another lurid novel about bears in cages.
It’s time for another round of “Tucker’s got an Irve conflict” emails to his supervisor, Dan Abrams, at dabrams@msnbc.com.
Emails may also be sent to letters@msnbc.com and feedback@msnbc.com.
Here’s mine:
Lakota!
Now I need to find some brain bleach.
then we gotta be extra-careful not be squashed flat by dem silver linings fallin outta dem clouds, brudda…
the vote-fixing scam may or may not be ‘neutralized.’ the fascist fux have run off all the USAttys whom they believed to be unreliable in the matter of pursuing ‘voter fraud.’ there were 8, or 9, or 10…out of 93…which means they were perfectly content with the reliability and loyalty of the other 85 or so…
there have been hearings a-plenty, but every effort to actually hold the Busheviks accountable legislatively has been short-circuited, either by the Pukes or by the ‘conservatard’ dems…even if libby’s sentenced, and his conviction is upheld on appeal (which i doubt), there has been absolutely no consequence to the fascist bastards as a result of his conviction…
nothing has changed, a few cosmetic details to the contrary notwithstanding…
the busheviks are still laughing at the puny efforts of the opposition to rein ‘em in…
we got hearings…
kewl…
now, is anybody gonna go to jail on accounta?
is anybody gonna lose their juicy federal pensions, or other perqs?
is anybody gonna suffer ANY punishment?
imho: Not a fuukin chance, frienz…
Milan River @ 46
Did Cheney or Bush, with their collective total of three DUI convictions, write on behalf of Libby? Libby will never serve a day in jail or prison for these convictions.
scarecrow @ 95
Ah, yes, the lessons of stress environments inadvertandly taught to seven-year olds.
but also it may be what’s happening in the adminstration right now, I hope I hope!
Elliott @ 92
Not totally ridiculous. My wife brought eight small (10 to 12 mm) praying mantises home from a friend’s classroom yesterday. We put them in my greenhouse, where they’ll join the ladybugs in competition for whatever they can find. If your baby mantises are roaming in a room, vacuum up ALL the spider webs in the area the mantises will be traveling. When they’re hatchlings, they easily get stuck in the smallest webs, or even in the teeny thorn-like protrusions on tomato stalks and vines.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 85
No, Fred, change the batteries on your hearing aid. We’re cursing at you.
Bush was selected to be the pResident of the United States.
Elliott @ 92
Uh, there’s a political analogy in there somewhere…but congratulations, Elliott! ;)
Lahoma Lakota is my sweet thing’s name. She is Cherokee. And she is angry with her party. The Democrats.
I wonder if Judge Walton still remembers scolding the defense for deceiving him into thinking Libby would testify in his own behalf?
JGabriel @ 87
just not evil enough sounding to me. sorry. patronage is a way of life in the government. Schedule C appointments are pure patronage jobs. in some administrations, there is some thought put to competence, in others, not so much.
TiredFed @ 71
Marcy is, according to her TNH post about Harriet Miers: Harriet
Milan at 112 — I’m sure he does. Judges don’t tend to forget it — ever — when an attorney is caught lying to them. Period.
LS @ 97
Elliott, here’s your candidate for a mantis-sitter when you go on vacation… ;) j/k LS!
I like a good memory.
Milan River @ 113
Christy Hardin Smith @ 116
It’s nice to know who has a stimulated supoenal gland and who doesn’t.
Now with immunity! “Immunity…I like that…”
ROFL.
JGabriel @ 88
Just one person’s take…
Your points about the weak connotation associated with the term “politicization” are good ones. The word just does not adequately describe the level of wrong involved.
However, “patronage” and “patronage machine” don’t convey appropriate sinisterness, either. “Don’t patronize me” is used in movies and in real life to register offense at condescension and such. It sounds rather ordinary.
Again, just my take. I don’t have a better substitute for “politicization,” though I agree with your dissatisfaction for it.
LS @ 96
yeah, they eat the first thing they can get a hold of, which is usu a sibling.
They’re outside. I always have at least one at the front door, my little green guardian.
Anyway, after they mate, which I happened to witness last year, she eats him, head first. Then she lays little foam egg cases, they look like mini hornet’s nests, kinda.
And then after Spring comes, they hatch out, and get to work.
If Paris goes to jail for her crime, shouldn’t Monica?
Bush’s control of the military isn’t absolute. Sure, he’s Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces, and he seems to have bubbled himself off from anyone who strongly disagrees with his approach. But if it came to a clear-cut choice between obeying the C-in-C and their sworn duty, I think the tamed ones would be far outnumbered.
There’ve been rumors about a quiet revolt in the military over applying the Bush Doctrine to Iran. It wouldn’t surprise me a bit.
TeddySanFran @ 101
exilente!
Monica Goodling is what passes for an attorney?
Milan River @ 113
This has nothing to do with the sentencing or the decision to release Libbyon bail pending appeal. Libby will not be punished for representations made by his lawyers.
Jean2k @ 121
How about “infiltrated DOJ with law-breaking loyalists” ?
Elliott @ 121
It gives soylent green new meaning!
or “subverted” justice or even better “perverted” justice (that one might piss off a few fundies, who knows).
The letter to Abrams about Tucker cracks me up bc it is so true.
We’re on the threshold of a world war. Based upon lies told to Congress and the American people by Bush, Rove and Cheney, among others. And Scooter is giong to jail. And thats it?
you wil recall that DOJ even tried to institute a fundie-friendly hiring program for PERMANENT civil service jobs right out of college? wonder where that idea came from.
wgg: tokin liberal @ 69
A researcher friend at a major public university learned 4 years ago that government agents descended on the CDC in Atlanta and were “interviewing” scientists she knows on their feelings about GWB. These people have been planning this for years and they wasted no time once they came into power to begin the corruption of all Depts., Bureaus, and Agencies of the government. They are totallitarians at heart.
TiredFed @ 131
ooooh, I love it when you talk dirty, TF. So does MSM. This could catch on.
Elliott:
I had a big praying mantis (a good four inches or so) living in a little evergreen shrub alongside my garden last year. I named him Big Al. He stayed in that shrub all summer and would turn his head to watch me as I would walk by. Really cool.
TiredFed @ 134
Jaysus.
Craving justice is too much to ask. I suppose. Just ask my party.
Milan River @ 132
I love the way he points out the information about the Carlsons to Abrams as if he has no idea.
TiredFed @ 129
Both. (And what’s wrong with pissing off a few fundies?)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 132
OK, I wish it were more by this time, but one step at a time (and I wish it weren’t three steps backwards for every step forward). Harriet and Karl are next. Then Gonzo. Then…
spurious @ 140
not a thing. if we can get this across to them (and a few Republicans), we may be on to something.
DOJ Widens Internal Investigation After Goodling’s Testimony…
Jayt and others who were looking at the Phase II info from earlier, Froomkin has a great rundown of news stories on it today in his White House Watch column. Just FYI…
kinmo @ 137
it is neat how one’ll watch you, turning that little head as if curious, and I guess, in a mantid way is.
It’s been a long, and frustrating, week but that is no reason to start sniping at our fellow commenters.
The mods have, and will continue to, delete any comment that offers no content other than taking swipes at other commenters.
in which there’s a lengthy section in which some 10 or so critical luminaries assess the damages wrought by the busheviks on the major segments of the Federal Govt…
all the authors, to me, seem to be entirely too optimistic about expunging the malign elements the Busheviks have planted on every level of the bureaucracy, and which will be GENERATIONS’ work to expel…
DoJ is only the tip of the iceberg, so to speak. there’s EPA, and CDC, the FCC, and the FEC, and the myriad thousands of little commissions and boards where career secularists have been driven away and replaced by doctinairre fascist/theocratic shiotwhistles and furcknozzles who’ll still be plaguing the regulatory process for another 25 years, at least…
.
1,526 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hardin Smith and the Firepup Patriots:
If the sentence isn’t imposed immediately and does not fall in the top end a the guidelines, will you then capitulate and agree that those of us who have been warnin’ about takin’ the “justice system” seriously are right?
When are we gunna get it…after yesterday, anyone who thinks that any part of our political system includin’ justice can be trusted to work as it was intended has been livin’ on another planet. Even elections do not mean a thing unless the power to enforce the judgement at the polls is held over the politicians…that power is the power of direct action, non-violent civil disobedience which forces the majority to stand behind the people or lose their seats.
I repeat the question Christy…when do we go to plan be which Jefferson thought was the only way people could keep tyrannical factions from consolidating power?
KEEP THE FAITH AND CARRY IT WITH YOU TO THE NEXT DEMONSTRATION!!
I’m getting wound up. My lady says she likes it when I’m mad. I tell her she’s lucky this isn’t 1838. Because we’d be on the run. She laughs and says… I know.
Unless we impeach and convict Bush, Cheney, and many of their appointees, Irve Libby will return to government service as the grey eminence of the Prescott Bush Administration in the 2020s. This brand, and its far-reaching tentacles, must be stomped into the ground under the bootheel of populist rage.
And we must not, next year, elect a Democrat to the White House who’ll let bygones be bygones like Bill did in 1993. These investigations need to continue until their natural life is over. I include impeachments of Roberts and Alito for lying in their confirmation hearings.
Uproot, upend, upheave.
OT
Leaving to see Schrek 111 w/ Mr. Milan.
Everyone have a fun holiday week-end.
Raining in northern Ohio now. Thank goodness.
Learned a lot again. Thanks.
If, according to his new National Security Directive, Bush can now assume dictatorial powers in an ‘emergency’ and, if Cheney really can talk the Israelis into attacking Iran so the US would be forced to come to their defense, who still thinks there would be an election in 2008?
JH
Instead of “patronage” or “politicization” how about “Sovietization of the Federal government.” “Stalinization” would work as well, but “Sovietization” rings lotsa evil bells with teh Base still.
GulfCoastPirate @ 152
That is what I fear the most.
ThinkProgress: Bush Administration To ‘Skim Off Border Patrol Agents’ For Duty In Iraq
The Bush political dynasty is insidious. It must be dealt with.
tbsa @ 154
Me too.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 156
and perfidious
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 155
yep, anyone with a uniform and a badge is going to get conscripted…
TeddySanFran @ 150
I know! This is one thing that makes me very nervous about Hilary. And Obama. For different reasons. Hilary has the fire and the experience to keep things “open” but I am afraid she is too scared (and scarred) from her husband’s tenure. Obama just doesn’t have the fire.
Now Gore on the other hand….he has as much personal experience with this crowd as Hil, but he doesn’t carry the personal baggage. And he’s got some fire in his loins, as well as the appropriate gravitas. As time passes, I find myself really hoping he’ll find a way to jump into this race.
This is not a time to let bygones be bygones. No, we need a domestic version of the Nuremburg trials.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 155
Oh that’s gonna go over really well with the base. FEWER border patrol agents?
Hasselbeck drives Rosie outta The View early.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 131
I guess that’s what is getting to me. We’re worrying about whether the system will work properly and Libby will go to jail; that would represent a round of the game that we would have won. But this is like playing chess with a smirking idiot who refuses to pay attention to the rules, and knows that if he loses he can just kick over the chessboard. (Taking off tinfoil hat, but feeling a bit nekkid without it.)
I blogged about this early in the week.
just sayin’
GulfCoastPirate @ 152
there’s plenty of ways to prevent an election, if you have the nerve to try ‘em…
i don’t think the Busheviks lack nerve…
in stealing two presidential ‘elections’, and launching a pre-emptive war against an innocent, sovereign state, they’ve ‘crossed the rubicon.’ they’re not gonna turn back…
.
tbsa @ 144
Do you have a link, please?
egregious - you have mail -
NorskeFlamethrower @ 148
John Lennon’s ‘Working Class Hero’ came on my ipod when I was at the gym earlier. When he got to the part that says ‘… you’re still fracking peasants to me …’ all I could think about was yesterday’s disappointments.
Maybe he knew something about us that we haven’t figured out ourselves as of yet.
JH
egregious @ 162
It’s already turning into a huge deal here in Caliornia. With our National Guard already in Iraq, and bushco trying to send the border patrol over too, even the governator is up in arms about it.
TeddySanFran @ 162
Good! Her heart may be in the right place, but everytime she opened her mouth she managed to not only make herself look like an idiot, but everyone who agrees with her. She almost always mangled “facts.”
TiredFed @ 142
I don’t think yer average fundie knows the meaning of politicized, patronage, or subverted. Perverted is the best, because that is exactly what they’ve done. Bastardized would work too.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 155
SHEESH
And Border protection is why Carol Lam was canned. Ay-che-wawa!
and I’m afeard he’s lookin’ to tap the Coast Guard, too
and that reminds me, what was that in Monica’s appearance about stalling immirgation judges?
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 165
[Mod: Please take care to close your quotes with [/blockquote] thanks]
TeddySanFran @ 162
Hi TSF: Is this one of the stupidest news stories evah? I watched part of it (couldn’t believe how much air time it got on ‘news’ shows). The whole thing turned on Rosie’s remarks being misinterpreted and EH not acknowledging or agreeing that Rosie was misinterpreted. It was so stupid. Even The Donald (honorary member of the View) called out Hasselbeck as being “out of her depth on many issues”. hahaha!
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 155
geez. next he’ll be taking 50 year old bureaucrats. Yikes!
Christy
I think if you look at them like dubya does, by that I mean everything relates to the Godfather, ok at that starting point you look at the fact that he’s said out loud that AG is Fredo, Libby has got to be Frank Pentangeli and somebody (a Tom Hagen type) is talking to Libby behind closed doors and saying he better not talk if he knows what’s good for his family, implied or otherwise, like when they brought in Frank’s brother from Sicily during the Congressional hearing and Tom Hagen’s visit to the Army base and Frank’s subsequent suicide.
[sorry for the run-on sentence]
I think Libby’s being told to keep his trap shut if he knows what’s good for him no matter what his spokespeople say.
leftdcin72 @ 119
Throw in judicial notice of the wholesale demolition of the DoJ, and a recollection of how Judge Sirica cracked the Watergate burglars, and you have all the reasons in the world to throw the book at Scooter.
“25 years, start today. See ya.”
1,526 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen TeddySanFran and the Firepup Patriots:
Hey Teddy, you are so right on…the only way we get outta this fascist nightmare is to get a Democratic president with the political skills and broad national legitimacy to impose democracy on the Democratic Party. There is only one person out there who can win a national election and forge the national consensus necessary to deconstruct the corporate oligarchy and make them like it…and that person is Al Gore.
I think that Gore’s plan is to let the existin’ Democratic candidates spend the summer dodgin’ the bullets from yesterday’s surrender and then hit the ground runnin’ on Labor Day. There is no amount of money that can keep Gore from sweepin’ the super Tuesday primaries if he comes in fresh on Labor Day.
And we ken help ‘im do it by keepin’ the entire Democratic Party hierarchy dodgin’ the slings and arrows of righteous anger thru the summer…don’t let a single elected Democrat sleep soundly until Labor Day, by then they’ll either get it or get out.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T LET ‘EM FERGET YER HERE!!
Elliott @ 171
I don’t think borders matter anymore as Bush is trying to take over the whole world since it’s a threat to my children…
wgg: tokin liberal @ 165
Please read Article I, Section 4 of the Constitution. Does it provide for suspension of elections - a draconian measure that is unprecedented in this nation’s history?
albert fall @ 177
Stop my pounding heart!
This is the end part of the LA TImes article. How long do you think it will take for Monica to get hit with perjury?
NorskeFlamethrower @ 177
Man o’ man, I hope you are right Mr NFT’er. Here’s to keeping up the faith in an Al Gore Super Tuesday!
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 179
I keep confusing the legislation passed by Congress for “Continuity of Government” with the recent executive order signed by President Bush, which iirc bypasses Congress.
wgg: tokin liberal @ 164
As depressing a thought as it is I think I agree with your analysis. They won’t allow themselves to be voted out of power when they all know what that could possibly mean - jail.
I think I’m going to start stocking up on tequila. :)
JH
Norske at 148 — No. And this is because I have actually worked in the justice system, and know the good and the bad of it from personal experience — not just from the outside looking in. Sorry, don’t agree with you.
JGabriel @ 87
TiredFed @ 114
Jean2k @ 121
Hmm. If people agree that ‘patronage machine’ no longer connotes corruption, or that it isn’t sinister enough, I don’t suppose I can argue with that. Of course — I will anyway. Patronage is typically used to describe the awarding of non-political jobs and contracts to political supporters. Patronage is corruption, by definition. Also, it assigns a definite course of actions to define what we mean by ‘politicization’ and ‘corruption’ in the Bush administration. It’s a more concrete description, less abstract; it’s a good example of using language politically, as opposed to the bland bullshit Orwell corruscated in ‘Politics and the English Language’.
That said, if patronage is now regarded by most people as an inevitable and proper consequence of rewarding a political party with power, then you’re right — characterizing Bush departmental politicization as a patronage machine won’t have the compelling narrative power to focus the meaning of corruption in the Bush administration.
But it’s still an accurate description and provides a *specific* alternative to overuse of the abstract ‘politicization’. At least we can get more variety in our rhetoric.
Did anyone kick around the story about how most Western states are seriously short of Nat’l Guard equipment…except of course for Texas and Wyoming…Why they have 70% of their equipment.
I am reminded of General Batiste….Bush is making us all eat chicken shit.
-GSD
Chicken Dick’n George.
Prosecutor Asks for up to 3 Year Sentence for Libby
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003301.php
hope y’all don’t mind if I ruminate some about yesterday’s hearing. why didn’t they look at the evidence they already had and follow the leads? why did they keep asking Delilah what others thought or knew, instead of sticking to what she did, knew or said? Delilah had ongoing input into the list of USAs to be fired. not enough questions about that. Here’s a quote from one of (many) Kyle Sampson’s email to William Kelley and Dabney Friedrich of Harriet Miers’s staff: “I’d have 3-5 additional names that the White House might want to consider.” Does this sound like Sampson and Delilah made ANY decisions here? I know that Delilah managed to get two names removed early on (DC and NC I think), but that’s because she knew the incumbents could be counted on to do the “Bushie” thing (as opposed to the right thing).
Thanks for your insights, Christy. This piece is very well done.
Senator Clinton will not say she blew her vote on attacking Iraq. I will finally accept this is not stubborness on the Senator’s part. Senator Clinton apparently believes her vote was right. Well Senator, accept the fact… I will not be voting for you.
Politization, patronage…why not just call it what it is, the corruption of the justice system. Or the corruption of the political process.
And begin to stand up and tell those who excuse it with “everybody does it” or “it’s nothing new” that these facts don’t make corruption right or inevitable!
honestly, estimable sir, i do not see where the issue of constitutionality comes into it. the fascists have overturned–by the simple expedient of a late-night amendment to a bill nobody obthered to read–the most hallowed of constitutional protections, habeas corpus; which, unless i missed the news, has yet to be restored, despite a lot of hearings and other meaningless noise.
the constitution is nothing but a piece of shit-paper to these folks, brotha; or haven’cha noticed?
Posted almost ten minutes ago at ThinkProgress: Fitzgerald: Libby deserves 2-3 years in prison
did Monica not say in her testimony, right before whatzisname interrupted Davis and started that motion to table sideshow, that GONZALES lied to Congress? I.e., he said that he wasn;t involved in discussions about things he attended meetings about?
I ask this because I haven’t seen that part of her testimony highlighted anywhere…..they talk about the “coaching” and her accusations against McNulty, but not what appears to be clear evidence of perjury by Gonzo.
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 194
Smart Fitz. With that sentence, and time off for good behavior, he will be getting out right around the time Bush leaves office, which would undermine plans for pardons. Haha!
dang. gotta run. maybe see y’all later in the threads. I know how I’m gonna spend my day off. Doing more research on this criminal enterprise. and taking a few moments to remember vets (my dad and brother among them) who have passed. too many of late. peace.
wgg: tokin liberal @ 193
Please do not call the Constitution a piece of shit-paper here. Either in using it as an analogy for the Bush Administration’s feeling or otherwise. While they may have little respect for it in their actions, I do and I would appreciate if everyone else would treat it with a bit more respect as well. Thank you.
TeddySanFran @ 153
That would just be looked at as overheated rhetoric — like ‘Nazification’. Besides, it isn’t accurate, in that there was no ‘opposing’ party in the USSR Comunist system.
One thing you have proved Senator Clinton. That you are just as adept at bull…t as any male politician I have ever run across.
TeddySanFran @ 150
Agree completely. Democrats and the people let the Republicans off the hook after Watergate and Iran-Contra. A knife should have been put in their hearts, metaphorically of course, after these corruptions but the Democrats wanted to show how magniminious they could be and allowed them to survice. The sooner the current Republican Party exits the political scene the better America will be. No quarter should be given to any and all found guilty of crimes from perjury to treason.
egregious @ 12:51 pm -
…but does not bypass the Constitution. And let us recall that Congress can countermand an executive order with appropriate legislation.
oddmommy @ 195
It was amazing to watch. It was lungren who tried to derail the thing. Right when Davis got to that part, DOWD stood up! and tried to give her some docs or take some from the witness table (can’t remember) and Davis told him that he was not allowed to participate in the hearings due to the immunity and that is when Lungren went to work–which gave Monica a good 15-20 minutes to get more coaching from Dowd. I felt certain, as I was watching it, that Dowd was signaling the rethugs to intervene on his behalf. It seemed all too carefully choreographed. Whatwithall the insistence that the votes to table Lungren’s motion (to quash Davis’ question) be counted by the clerk who wasn’t even in the room!
JGabriel @ 186
Dude. your description is right on. And I agree with you. And patronage is a correct way to describe what is going on. But it’s academic and doesn’t accomplish anything any more than “politicization” does.
But if you are looking to get some traction on this point, people here are trying to help find the term that is most provocative and most easily understood in our soundbite world. No harm in that.
If only we could get AG the AG convicted of perjury and see them BOTH in jail I would start to regain a little hope in our judicial system.
JGabriel @ 199
To be honest there isn’t much of an opposition party in America.
egregious @ 161
A bird shit on bush yesterday durring the presser.
http://www.rawstory.com/showar.....ush-karma/
Christy Hardin Smith @ 198
I respect the Constitution too. In fact I think the system of tripartite government with checks and balances that it created is a brilliant concept.
However, is it ok to say that the Bush administration has TRASHED it? Because they clearly have.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 191
Hi OKK, ITA that I don’t want another president that won’t admit or acknowledge mistakes.
GulfCoastPirate @ 167
Umm, ‘fracking’? I’m pretty sure that line is, “You’re still *fucking* peasants to me”.
Perhaps I’m just being nitpicky, but I really do hate to see great artists misquoted.
Especially when it robs them of their obscenity.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 198
my dear madam, i do NOT regard the Constitution in those terms, at all. it pains me to write them;
i bow to none in my own respect for it.
i am a vietnam vet, and i once swore an oath to uphold it–with my life if necessary–and i never shirked.
that said, to remark that such is the view of the document by the regime in power in the Nation’s capital dishonors no one but them who obviously regard and treat it as such.
.
Woodhall Hollow @ 203
Yep. I heard that part on XM CSPAN when I was driving homeward to pick up my son and I was mesmerized. Dowd was acting just like a typical street thug litigator at a deposition. That’s what he gets paid a gazillion $$ an hour for.
You can bet the Republicans choreographed the HJC hearings along with Goodling the Quisling’s attorney’s. Republicans leave nothing to chance despite the meme the pundits like to push that they are merely incompetent. They know exactly what they are doing and why.
EPU’d from two threads back (and in danger of having it happen again, I fear) . . .
From the past:
First Inaugural Address
Grover Cleveland
March 4, 1885
Cleveland wasn’t perfect, by any means, but he had no stomach for government by crony.
wgg: tokin liberal @ 193
Didn’t one of ‘them’ refer to the Constitution as quaint?
Did a bird really poop on the smirk’s head yesterday? Must have been when he was telling that reporter his kids were in danger. Even the birds know the guy is full of shit. I wonder when the Democrats will figure it out?
tbsa @ 208
best damn thing that’s happened in DC since last century.
New thread from Jane
Woodhall Hollow @ 192
I do. But there are many different types of corruption, and without a specific description of the ‘corruption’ it can be diregarded as simply an ad hominem attack.
‘Patronage’ provides a supportable and self-evident charge of corruption. That’s why, I think, it’s important to get into the mix.
Yep . . . EPU’d again: Jane’s up with Can I Have an Amen?
And I thought that was my line.
JGabriel @ 211
Nitpicky or not you are correct and I stand corrected.
I wonder what Lennon would have to say these days?
GulfCoastPirate @ 221
you kiddin? they’d have him in Gitmo by now.
The bird poop: Karma from Heaven?
Speaking of Scooter Libby, it turns out that likely GOP presidential candidate Fred Thompson is a charter member of the Scooter Libby Legal Defense Trust. Quite a reversal his days as a hero of the Watergate hearings.
For the sad story of another Republican who no longer believes in “law and order,” see:
“Fred Thompson: Watergate Hero Turned Plamegate Villain.”
It all started with Dylan…
How does it feel?
Bluetoe @ 206
Sad, but true…
Bay State Librul @ 223
TRex and the Late Night crew had boatloads of fun with this one.
I especially liked the comment about the story of Jesus and John the Baptist.
Peterr @ 226
“Fair is foul, and foul fair.”
Macbethm I.i
Why do some folks think that David Gregory’s
question was somehow out of line?
What hold does Bush have on the MSM.
The Presidency is worth of respect, not the occupant…
do-si-do @ 204
Thanks, do-si-do. I think ‘patronage’ and especially ‘patronage machine’ *are* provocative concepts that most Americans find disgusting and easily understand. I think we underestimate the American public to assume otherwise.
Jwoods @ 20
The Sibel Edmonds thing got punked by greymail
Hey lhp—
Are we finally making headway on the judges issue? Or are there many more areas to look into besides immigration judges?
And come on up to the new thread.
OT
It’s probably been remarked on already but there is a new Times/CBS poll out.
61% say we should have stayed out of Iraq.
76% say that the surge is having no effect or making things worse
72% say the country is seriously offtrack
69% support funding but with conditions
63% support withdrawal in 2008
23% approve of Bush’s handling of the war
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05.....5view.html
AZ Matt @ 10
Does the Pope wear a funny hat? :-)
Christy, apologies if someone has already posted this.
“At Firedoglake, Christy Hardin Smith finds Goodling not very believable:
‘After sitting through the hours of ‘if I broke the law, I didn’t mean to’ from Monica Goodling, there are a whole lot of questions that I want answered . . . still.
“Such as: how can someone who worked in a building full of experienced prosecutors possibly think that is remotely credible? My ignorance of the law made me politicize the hiring of multiple career justice employees? Puh-leese. (Any cops in the audience want to tell me how well that works in the real world? ‘I’m sorry officer, I didn’t know the speed limit was 65 here.’ Um . . . yeah.)
“Or this gem — the whole ‘I was student council president in college, so I’m highly qualified to judge career professionals who have dedicated their lives to the Constitution and the rule of law and fire their asses if they aren’t Republican enough.’ “
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....id=topnews
I’m sure the guys in prison will love the nickname Scooter…
TiredFed @ 130
How about:
Dismantled the justice part of the justice department where regular career employees have been replaced by Rovian Republican operatives.
Is that too long?
Stephen Parrish, CPA @ 194
Well then, that would be a departure upward from the Guidlines. If the upper range of the Guidelines is only 21 months, and the lower end of the sentance the Govermnet proposes is 24 months–hey, even I can do that math!
tbsa @ 153
Me too.
Well, Fitzgerald’s memorandum is out. He’s asking for 30-37 months.
But to me the more interesting news is this:
first, it was clear from very early in the investigation that Ms. Wilson qualified under the relevant statute (Title 50, United States Code, Section 421) as a covert agent whose identity had been disclosed by public officials, including Mr. Libby, to the press.
That’s the IIPA. So that means beyond any doubt that from early on Fitzgerald had determined that Plame qualified as covert under the IIPA. Toensing is definitively wrong on that count, and cannot continue to claim that Fitzgerald must have known she was not covert and therefore that the investigation should have been terminated because IIPA could not have been violated. That doesn’t mean Libby did violate IIPA; as Fitzgerald notes, that would require determining what LIbby knew about her status and what his intent was in disclosing the classified information about her to reporters. It obviously also doesn’t settle definitively whether Plame was covert under IIPA - that would require being proven in court, since it’s a statutory definition or whatever.
But it means beyond a shadow of a doubt that the investigators were convinced from early on that Plame was covert under the statute, contra one of the main arguments that Toensing, and Novak and others have been propagating.
i am uploading key parts,
in easily searchable, plain text, of
patrick fitzgerald’s sentencing
memorandum, in u.s. v. libby
right now, at the above link. . .
one juicy bit:
“. . .the law is entitled to every man’s
evidence. Inherent in this principle is the
obligation of a witness to tell the truth,
particularly under oath. . .“
i’ll be adding more of the 21 pages,
some partially redacted, as the afternoon
wears on. . .
keep it spinnin’ in good karma!
one more:
. . .It is against this background that Mr. Libby’s conduct must be judged. As an experienced attorney, Mr. Libby knew well both the seriousness of this investigation and the range of options available to him as the investigation progressed. He, of course, could have told the truth, even if, as was the case for many other witnesses, doing so risked the possibility of criminal prosecution, or personal or political embarrassment. He also could have declined to speak to the FBI agents, invoked his Fifth Amendment rights before the grand jury, or challenged any lines of inquiry he believed improper. . .
but he chose to lie, and obstruct, instead.
My aging brain seems to remember something about Abramoff possibly getting a reduced sentence? Anybody have a update on when that may occur? Also is the Griles case completely over? Thanks.
I noticed the AP’s little dig in their article this afternoon:
“…No one was charged with the leak itself, including the initial source of the disclosure, former Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage. Fitzgerald was aware early on that Armitage was the original source of the leak….”
“Original source” makes it sound like Armitage was the sole instigator or initiator of the leak, and of course totally sidesteps the chain of command of the entire anti-Wilson smear campaign. Nice going, AP. You’re still welcome on the plane.
I always filed my sentencing recommendations in federal court under seal due to the invariably sensitive nature of their contents, such as sensitive personal information about the client or the client’s family and psych evaluations. I’d be surprised if Libby does otherwise.
Unless Libby has flipped and provided substantial assistance, which I seriously doubt, I think Jeralyn’s calculations are correct. If he did, the government’s motion for a downward departure will have been filed under seal.
I doubt that Judge Walton will permit him to remain on bond while his appeal is pending, but he probably will permit him to self-surrender after the Bureau of Prisons decides which camp fed to send him to.
Hank Essay @ 236
It won’t matter at Club Fed.
JGabriel @ 186
It seems that you just want to fight. Lighten up. Learn to say “Thank you.”
You throw out a topic, and invite people to respond. OK, fine. Then, when nobody responds quick enough for you, you throw a little fit, essentially telling us that this is the right info that we should be applauding.
Then, when a couple of people overlook your impatience, take the time to think about your topic, and compose a thoughtful reply, both of which largely AGREED with you, you STILL want to argue. You mischaracterize what both of us say, remake your argument in a wholely different way, and restate your conviction for the best choice of terms.
If you don’t want your ideas discussed, and you can’t handle others’ rejections of parts (small parts, at that) of your whole argument, then you shouldn’t ask.
Bluetoe @ 214
Coordinated and choreographed. They all lie and destroy the evidence and leave a path of confusion. That has been the method of their maddness from day 1.
Woodhall Hollow @ 101
He will get a multi-million dollar advance for it, and it will wind up on the remainder tables within 8 months.
Is Judge Walton the replacement for the FISA court Republican-appointed judge who resigned in protest several years ago because the Bush administration (and the “loyal Bushie” Republican-appointed FISA court headmistress) kept all the other Republican-appointed FISA court judges in the dark about the scope of the Bush administration’s illegal wiretapping programs?
Just wondering.