President Bush’s press conference was an opportunity for him to address issues that are deeply troubling the country and to explain himself in light of dismal job approval ratings, record high opposition to his Iraq policies and major concerns about the integrity of the Justice Department. But the non-answers he gave to reporters’ questions on these topics may have breached even his own minimal standards for candor, responsiveness and coherence. The entire transcript is here; Crooks and Liars has this select video, and more examples are below.
In what may have been his most fear-mongering performance to date, the President mentioned al Qaeda about 20 times. But when reporters asked why his Administration had not caught Osama bin Laden, Bush evaded the question except to say that bin Laden had not been caught because he was hiding.
THE PRESIDENT: Why is he at large? Because we haven’t got him yet, Jim. That’s why. And he’s hiding, and we’re looking, and we will continue to look until we bring him to justice. . . .
That was followed by this non-responsive exchange:
Q Mr. President, moments ago you said that al Qaeda attacked us before we were in Iraq. Since then Iraq has become much less stable; al Qaeda has used it as a recruiting tool, apparently with some success. So what would you say to those who would argue that what we’ve done in Iraq has simply enhanced al Qaeda and made the situation worse?
THE PRESIDENT: Oh, so, in other words, the option would have been just let Saddam Hussein stay there? Your question is, should we not have left Saddam Hussein in power? And the answer is, absolutely not. . . .
Well, no, that wasn’t the question at all, so he filibustered a few minutes to avoid having to say, “they were right.”
As Swopa told us yesterday, Bush also warned two reporters about al Qaeda: “They are a threat to your children, David” he told a stunned David Gregory, and then repeated that threat to another reporter.
He then repeated his mantra that we should leave all decisions to General Petraeus rather than the politicians in Washington. But what about ignoring warnings he received before invading Iraq?
Q Mr. President, a new Senate report this morning contends that your administration was warned before the war that by invading Iraq you would actually give Iran and al Qaeda a golden opportunity to expand their influence, . . . Why did you ignore those warnings, sir?
THE PRESIDENT: Ed, going into Iraq we were warned about a lot of things, some of which happened, some of which didn’t happen. And, obviously, as I made a decision as consequential as that, I weighed the risks and rewards of any decision. I firmly believe the world is better off without Saddam Hussein in power. I know the Iraqis are better off without Saddam Hussein in power. I think America is safer without Saddam Hussein in power.
And what about the damage his White House and Attorney General have done to the Justice Department?
Q Good morning, Mr. President. I’d like to ask you about the Justice Department. In the last couple months, we have heard disturbing evidence about senior officials of the Justice Department misleading Congress. We heard disturbing evidence yesterday that a senior official at the Justice Department improperly took, by her own admission, political considerations into effect in evaluating career employees of the Justice Department.
We’ve also had evidence from the former Deputy Attorney General of the White House strong-arming a sick man into trying to approve an illegal spying program. I’m curious, Mr. President, if you are concerned about the cumulative picture that’s being drawn about your Justice Department? And what assurances can you give the American people that the department is delivering impartial justice to the American people?
THE PRESIDENT: Yes, thank you, Michael. There is a — an internal investigation taking place at the Justice Department. And this will be an exhaustive investigation. And if there’s wrongdoing, it will be taken care of.
I thought it was interesting how you started your question, “over the months,” I think you said, “over the last months.” This investigation is taking a long time, kind of being drug out, I suspect for political question — for political reasons. In other words, as I mentioned the other day, it’s just grand political theater.
So there you have it: You should be afraid; very afraid. Al Qaeda is an existential threat to the United States and a direct threat to your children, but we haven’t caught bin Laden because he’s hiding. However, we’ve left the defense of the United States and your children up to a General in Iraq, and he’ll tell us how we’re doing in September. The warnings that invading Iraq would allow al Qaeda to metasticize into an even greater regional threat than it was while strengthening Iran probably weren’t considered, but never mind that; we’re better off without Saddam than with him, even though Saddam was not an existential threat to the United States or our children. And this Justice Department thing is so serious that it’s being investigated internally, so he can’t talk about it, but it’s really just the Democrats using it for political theater.
In the coming weeks, this nation must examine itself and what this man has done to our collective ability to think rationally and act with courage, wisdom and humanity. We need to struggle with why it is that a substantial majority of our Congress just voted — again — to give this dangerous, juvenile and deeply unpopular man another license to do whatever he wants, with whatever weapons he wants, to whomever he wants with no meaningful checks, while many of those we counted on to stop this madness looked into the camera and said this was a good thing. There are many theories, but I’m not convinced we’ve plumbed the depths of the institutional weakness, corruption and ideological sickness that have brought our country to this shameful moment.
Thank you, Mr. President.
Related posts:
- Saddam Interrogation: US Still Trying to Show 9/11 Connection as Late as Mid-2004
- FDL Book Salon: Dear President Obama With Bruce Kluger And David Tabatsky
- Do We Expect Too Much From The President?
- Ending Torture: Wrong Agency, Mr. President
- Frank Gaffney: Obama is America’s First Muslim President, and Just Like Hitler. Also.





Spotlight








Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search

coffee-less zed?
now – off to fix that – then read
Jerome Corsi on c-span right now talking about Chimp’s directive on emergency powers.
“Cuz ah’m the deSIGHder, Jim, David, Kelly, and ah sed sew.” That’s all the answer we need for any policy, including the upcoming invasion of Iran.
Good morning Scarecrow!
“…this Justice Department thing is so serious that it’s being investigated internally, so he can’t talk about it, but it’s really just the Democrats using it for political theater.”
This is what I appreciate about your writing, your ability to pull together two contradictory administration ideas in a way that makes obvious their insanity.
Thanks for all that you do.
THE PRESIDENT: Ed, going into Iraq we were warned about a lot of things, some of which happened, some of which didn’t happen. And, obviously, as I made a decision as consequential as that, I weighed the risks and rewards of any decision. I firmly believe the world is better off without Saddam Hussein in power. I know the Iraqis are better off without Saddam Hussein in power. I think America is safer without Saddam Hussein in power.
and then there’s the video out-take of GWB, as he’s getting ready to publicly announce that he’s taking the country to war, smiling and saying “this is fun”.
GWB’s gotta be the country’s biggest fan of “ongoing investigations”.
Which he can’t talk about, ya unnerstand.
I’ve got issues with the president implying that some of our children are expendible in exchange for others. Let’s keep them all at home — “safer, but not yet safe.” What. An. Idiot.
Good morning everyone. I need a smile. Any good news out there today? I’m not picky.
Scarecrow @ 9
Yep a bird shat on the chimpinchief
Scarecrow @ 9
Pirates? (the movie)
from al gore:
i think this is right… blaming bush is not the answer.
don’t know if gore’s answer is all of it… but it deserves some thought…
egregious — did you see the article about the journalists’ conference in Russia — gathering to protest the suppression and even murders of their colleague? I think it was in the NYT.
Scarecrow @ 9
good moring scarecrow. it’s a beautiful sunny morning here in MA, hope you get a chance to enjoy it.
I don’t care about triangulation or congresscritters trying to keep their jobs.
IT. IS. ON.
Hillary Clinton – COWARD (voted no on the supplemental after the issue had already been decided
Barack Obama – SEE ABOVE
Our men and women are dying, bleeding and killing innocence.
ALL OF YOU in DC
COWARDS
nomolos @ 10
yeah, and the WH told us it’s a sign of good luck. We have to shoot them down over there or they will bring us good luck here.
Bush is an embarrassment to this country. As you pointed out in your post, he contradicted himself or used circular reasoning throughout his presser. I am fearful of what he (or Cheney) is going to do with Iran before his term runs out.
The way things are going, social security, trade, health care, etc. are not going to matter too much. I’m afraid we are in a state of emergency right now, and the nature of that emergency is this administration.
Bush is an idiot yet the Congressional Dems are afraid of him. But the Congressional Dems are NOT afraid of us or they wouldn’t have sent that ludicrous e-mail yesterday claiming success in the war vote. If nothing else, it appears that just about EVERYBODY in DC is delusional in one form or another.
Great Post Scarecrow. I can’t imagine this Press conference is going to do any good for Bush’s approval rating. Historically, Bush holds press conferences and speaches to help bolster his approval ratings. In the past this has worked to give him a 5 or 6 point bump in the ratings. Lately, I think the opposite is happening. Everytime Bush comes out, the public and MSM is seeing how flawed his thinking is. IMO.
Marshall Law anyone…
This is very dangerous in light of the beligerence toward Iran… well it is dangerous no matter what.
Scarecrow @ 9
Don’t hold yer breath waiting for some, you might die. And, we need you.
This is exactly right, Scarecrow. How did America get so duped and by whom?
And how does America awaken and never repeat this lunacy again?
Scarecrow @ 9
Eugene Robinson has an interesting perspective on the R’s on the HJC committee. I think it falls under the category of good news in the MSM domain. Link
Scarecrow @ 9
You can get a new appliance this weekend at bargain-basement prices…
hope this helps…
.
nomolos @20
That’s what they’re talking about on c-span. It’s almost over.
“Osama’s wants to kill your children, David.”
On the other hand…
BUSH ACTUALLY IS
Will nothing stop this decent into sheer madness? Will nothing stop the crazies in Washington and out in middle America from following this vile sick human being into the abyss of endless war?
How long can American withstand this onslaught of deceit, lies and murderous rampage through the middle east? Will we stand by as they attack Iran or use Israel as a proxy to start a conflict with Iran? The constitution is now irrelevant…quaint I guess might be the correct term. Our leaders are sworn to protect the constitution…what happened to that oath?
6 more soldiers are reported blown up this morning. I assume another 10-20 were injured in those attacks but we never hear about the wounded. We should be marching to Washington to demand the removal of the war criminals in power. WE THE PEOPLE should demand an end to this maniacal regime even if it means going into the White House ourselves and dragging the MFs out kicking and screaming (oh what a beautiful vision). If ever there was a moment when this type of action would be justified it is NOW. We now know our dem leaders are spineless and unable to stop this. Its up to us folks. If this is going to stop it is solely up to us. Shall we begin the march?
yellowdogD @ 25
Damn, sorry I missed it.
Scarecrow… The sun is up, the tide is in, the lawn is mowed, the garden is growing but, but there is still that arse*ole in the WH, f**k
nomolos @ 20
I’m reading It Can’t Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis. SCARY STUFF.
Personally:
selise at 12 — yes, I had Gore’s book in mind when I wrote that paragraph.
wgg: tokin liberal @ 24
I just moved and realized I had too much stuff. would you like a toaster oven?
Since the president is so concerned about the children again, here’s a kindergarten constitutional question for him and the rest of us:
If you’re the president of the United States, does that mean you can do anything you want to, even kill anyone you want to, and nobody can make you stop until you decide to stop?
We owe an answer to the children Bush is trying to frighten. Congress obviously doesn’t understand.
nomolos @ 28
I always liked that line in Cast Away, when he says at the end you have to get up, every day, and breath, because you never know what the tide will bring in. “And one day, it brought me a sail.”
So there you have it: You should be afraid; very afraid. Al Qaeda is an existential threat to the United States and a direct threat to your children, but we haven’t caught bin Laden because he’s hiding. However, we’ve left the defense of the United States and your children up to a General in Iraq, and he’ll tell us how we’re doing in September. The warnings that invading Iraq would allow al Qaeda to metasticize into an even greater regional threat than it was while strengthening Iran probably weren’t considered, but never mind that; we’re better off without Saddam than with him, even though Saddam was not an existential threat to the United States or our children. And this Justice Department thing is so serious that it’s being investigated internally, so he can’t talk about it, but it’s really just the Democrats using it for political theater.
Scarecrow -
You get an A plus for both brevity AND snark. What’d it take bush?…….something like 50 minutes?…….and you nailed it in less than 50 seconds.
clem — so true; there are more than David’s children involved, and many face death every day.
IrishJim @ 23
This is a fine column. Robinson gets it.
the busheviks made a bet:
they bet they could put a plasma screen on the wall in ever house in the USofA, fill it with the astonishing plethora of trivial crap–American Idol/Nascar/Oprah–shove a 30-pak of Bud in the mini-fridge, and have the pizza boy at the door with that steaming hot pile of shit,
and the majority of the PEOPLE would ignore whatsoever else the fascists decided to do…
they won…
./
Mornin’ all. Haven’t read the post, yet, but I wanted to make a note of the interview with Hank Johnson (D-GA) in today’s Atlanta Journal Constitution. I’ve just skimmed it, but it’s about the AG/USA scandal. Johnson is one of the really good representatives on the House Judiciary Committee.
jonnyra @ 27
No, as long as there is no draft there will be no massive protests. The rich are too rich the poor are working too hard and the middle class does not exist.
I too would not be at all suprised if the bloody Israelis attacked Iran… why not they seem to thrive on bombing and killing.
The arms dealers will make billions and the innocents will die.
He says that he think that “America is safer without Saddam Hussein in power.” But Saddam never attacked and lacked weapons with which to attack us. (I’m told that we supplied him with the nerve gas he used on his own people.)
It’s almost as if the talk about the dangers to the U.S. posed by Saddam Hussein is meant to distract us from the real reason for invading Iraq. I wonder what that could be.
JF @ 38
It would help if I posted the link:
Q&A / REP. HANK JOHNSON: ‘The buck will stop somewhere’
well Good Morning Scarecrow and Firedogs,
need a smile Scarecrow ???
hey ya said you weren’t picky !
something to listen to whilst bangin your head on the desk
i’m sorry . . .what year is it again ?!?!?
There was an extraordinary article in the NYT on US troops in Iraq, with a video that was later shown on PBS Newshour. C&L has it up and it’s definitely worth a read/listen.
My anger doesn’t seem to be subsiding. I tell myself all the things I can think of to get beyond fury, but I can’t. I’m pissed. At so many people. I don’t trust the people who are representing me, or who are supposed to be looking out for my best interests. I don’t trust the people who are running for office.
Attaturk @ 26
Nice…but was there anything he said during the course of his presser yesterday that wasn’t just as hypocritical and ironic?
He was asked numerous times yesterday about al Qaeda — because the idiot’s administration tried to use it as a shiny object to distract us from Goodling’s confession about her role in politicizing the USDOJ.
He was called the investigation into the USDOJ’s politicization “grand political theater”, when virtually everything he has ever done has been just that, “grand political theater”. Standing with firemen with a bullhorn in NYC; flying to and standing on the deck of a carrier with the ‘Mission Accomplished’ banner; feeding ‘turkey’ to the troops in Iraq; speaking in front of Jackson Square in NOLA; mourning the loss of VA Tech students, all of it empty, hollow theater.
He is the President of the Potemkin Village.
I wish I could laugh about it.
Scarecrow @ 16
See, everything the WH says is the opposite.
Interesting that Corsi is so against this directive when he is the guy who tried to destroy Kerry. Hes the swift boater
selise@12
“It is too easy—and too partisan—to simply place the blame on the policies of President George W. Bush…”
Gore’s right- he has no policies. The blame goes to Darth & MC Rove.
“We have an independent judiciary…”
Really? You mean the one that started this nightmare in 2000?
“We have free speech…”
Yeah, as long as the NSA can monitor every word and e-mail.
“We have a free press…”
That makes sure not to ruffle feathers lest they blow their invitations to dine with the queen.
Scarecrow @ 33
The evening Nixon was going to give his “I quit” speech or declare marshall law we had the boat at the dock in Marblehead with our wordly goods aboard ready to take off into the sunset…outa here. Right now I wish we had gone then
JF @ 38
Here’s the link to Hank Johnson’s interview.
Zee @ 44
that’s called ‘becoming a grown-up’…
sorry ’bout dat…
./
snowbird42 @ 47
Verrrrrrrrrrrry interesting indeedy.
[waves~~~~~~~~~~ at snowbird]
Attaturk @ 26
Wow! It is amazing sometimes how profound the simple truth can be.
scarecrow @9,
Well, seeing as how I went to Yosemite last week, was chased across the 900ft-wide Hetch Hetchy Dam by a black bear and lived to tell the tale (even though I’ve died a thousand times since thinking about it) how about a little Yogi Bear to brighten the day? Here he is in “Scooter Looter” (not to be confused with Scooter Libby). Still slumming Jellystone. Still smarter than the average bear. And way smarter than the President of the United States of America. Yogi.
Scarecrow @ 9
Possibly. Josh Gerstein in the NY Sun quotes a former US Attorney who says that there’s a real possibility that Libby will not be allowed to stay free during his appeal. It certainly made me happy.
Libby’s a Jail Bird
This morning is troubling for me, on so many different fronts. But re our current worry about our very own elected dem people in D.C., I have given up on them. I wonder what Howard Dean is thinking this morning.
But as Dean and Kos have been saying, this is going to be a long struggle to get rid of these people. And if we back up and go home and sit and grump, then the corporatists have won and will win everything in the future.
So Dean will probably stay and fight, as will SOME of our new freshman congresscritters. And so the battle continues … until everyone is disgusted enough, or the fascists have won all power and we become a dictatorship with a permanment Rove dominated government.
Good news? ummmm, sorry. I was NOT invited to my grandson’s pre-school graduation and I am grumpy. Family scabbles can be so wearing. Losing a nation’s morality, is deeply troubling. It is sunny today however. How’s that.
Scarecrow @ 30
you did a good job of evoking it.
but, since i haven’t read gore’s new book (only excerpts posted online), i don’t know if he has any good ideas i could use to figure out what to do today.
i’m thinking of a letter to the editor along the lines of either:
1) the fakery of the house rule
or
2) the fakery of calling the iraq supplemental bill a “victory” for dems
if citizens are going use the power of reason to engage in the political process, i think we need to call our politicians out whenever they try to resort to spin or subterfuge… don’t let them get away with it – continue to demand honesty and transparency.
I love the line from Johnson
It appears that he testified in such a way as to be deceptive…
Why is it that politicians in general feel they must use euphemisms. Speak the direct truth dammit, scream from the rooftops “HE LIED”
Morning Scarecrow.
Wonderful post. I share your frump.
Good news? hmmmm.
Our Barred Owls apparently nested successfully in our woods this year.
It’s a real HOOT around here most nights at about midnight to 3am.
That’s about it…
P.S. to my #56, I am going to call my two senators Coleman and Klobuchar. No need to call my rep, MN 6th rep — you know, the one who kissed Bush on the lips at the SOTU. I will tell them what I think of their actions. Amy Klobuchar hasn’t been heard from (at least in my part of the state) lately. Let’s see what her staff has to say for her.
Just dropping in quickly to thank all of you for the hugs in the previous thread. You are all treasures. I honestly can’t tell you how much it means to me.
Scarecrow—
Good news department, one of my kids is about to come home for the summer. My niece is getting married to a terrific fellow. My nephew is participating in the CERN particle collider experiments, I tease him that his job is to count the particles as they go by. One…two…
As for your question about Russia, I have always tried to minimize my involvement in political situations for the good of our hospital work. Let me just say that things are not always what they seem on the surface. People can create problems and blame them on others. Gee why does that sound distressingly familiar?
(((((hoosierville)))))
melfeasance — for some reason, I never watched Yogi. However, I’ve been to Yosemite many times, and the best time was in early May, before the crowds; the first blossoms are out and the falls are roaring. Just being there renews your spirit.
Zee @ 44
me too. had trouble sleeping.
jane, i think, wrote yesterday that she was suprised by the depth of the anger at congress.
today, i’m surprised at my own anger – which is more rightly characterized as a real rage.
that’s a lot of energy to be carrying around… all i know is that in the past, taking constructive action is the only thing that helps.
gonna be away from y’all most of today but hoping some one keeps an eye out for this -
remember this ?
5/6/7
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..democrats/
nothing new on the moveon site this morning –
guess we gonna find out who’s zoomin’ who
Scarecrow @ 8
Good morning everyone. I need a smile. Any good news out there today? I’m not picky.
Mary Matalin was on the Imus-for-a-day show this morning. And I found out that my “mute” button is still working quite nicely.
EG, my father in law came home from the hospital Tuesday after his dbl valve replacement. Plenty of issues remain but it is still pretty good news for us.
GrandmaJ –Good news? ummmm, sorry. I was NOT invited to my grandson’s pre-school graduation and I am grumpy. Sorry about that; I think you just have to show up because you care, and not worry about whether they’ve thought it through.
raven @ 68
Hooray!!!! Keep us posted. I’m glad he’s back home, so good for morale.
jayt @ 67
Mary Matalin was on the Imus-for-a-day show this morning. And I found out that my “mute” button is still working quite nicely.
Jesus, you still had to SEE that mug!
If a democrat voted “yes” on the rule measure and “no” on the funding measure (as I understand Clinton did), how should I judge them and why? (To put this in context, it seems to me that this “rules” protocol simply gave Republicans a chance to claim that they voted against the pork but to still force it onto Bush along with the troop funding. Please let me know if I’ve go that wrong.)
Hooray!!!! Keep us posted. I’m glad he’s back home, so good for morale.
Will do, thx.
GrandmaJ @ 56
In November of 2004, three weeks after a darker day than that we experienced yesterday, I had the good fortune to meet Dean along with about two dozen other Dean supporters in my state. He asked what he should do next: run in 2008, start a 3rd party, or run for DNC chair.
We agreed unanimously, as I recall it, that he stood a chance in hell to win in 2008 if the facts on the ground remained unchanged.
We agreed a third party sounded appetizing, but it would take more than 4 years to become a powerhouse with which to reckon, and might serve only to replicate the drain on progressive votes in 2008, a la Green Party 2004.
So DNC chair it was; it would be long, hard, challenging work, but we would remake the party from the inside out.
You are seeing a convulsion right now, the next death throe of the old Democratic Party. The grassroots of the party are PISSED and are going to take the next step in rebirth — removing the old schoolers from leadership roles in the party. And we have plenty of impetus to do it, especially when Republicans who’ve lost their religion are also asking for this.
I feel confident that Dean will continue with the strategy we discussed in the dark days of 2004. We are only half-way at best to our goal, and it will take more than 2 years to achieve it. It’s time to double-down and fight like hell because lives depend on it.
And Grammy, you aren’t really missing anything today at the preschool. It’s too crowded, it gets too warm, the kids are too wound up, and it’s simply too tight a place for all that tension. Been there, done that. ;-)
Wigwam @ 72
You can put lipstick on it but it still oinks.
GrandmaJ @ 60
When I called my right wing tool’s office yesterday his flackey tried to lecture me instead of simply letting me give my opinion. After about five minutes me me telling him I didn’t call to discuss it, just give my opinion, I had to hang up and call the DC office.
jane, i think, wrote yesterday that she was suprised by the depth of the anger at congress.
Was she surprised by the anger or surprised that Congress was surprised?
There’s a DCCC letter e-mail out today talking about how much progress we made yesterday and asking for money — You can imagine some of the reactions.
egregious @ 70
That counts.
Scarecrow @ 16
Did someone say ’shoot’? Let me grab my shotgun. I’ll be right there!!
–Dick ‘Shooter’ Cheney
egregious @ 63
Make that a dubble!
{{{{{{Hoosierville}}}}}}
egreg! how you doin’, thru all this?
Scarecrow,
My righteous anger grows daily with this senseless war and the political posturing while good men and women of many nations die in a preemptive war based on lies.
Good news, Edwards is 30 miles away three times this weekend and I will be there to listen to the war talk. Like I said yesterday, this Republican stronghold is filled with anger against this war.
Adie @ 59
Me frumpy? Scarecrows don’t get frumpy. They just lose stuffing.
Owls are good.
The Democratic Party — SEE ABOVE.
That’s what we’re facing folks — the massive failure of the Democratic Party to represent any manner of opposition to BushCo.
Consequently the propect before us is plain: The entire system need to be dismantled.
Sweet spirited souls like Kos genuinely feel participatory democracy is still possible and all you have to do is elect Democrats.
Well they’re wrong.
Lieberman’s ascendancy over Lamont wasn’t an accident. The Democratic Party wants Lieberman the same way that James Carville wanted Mary Matalin.
It wants this war because it’s in the tank with Big Oil and Big Everyhting Else.
We are living in a state of Corporate Fascism in which our “opinion” (expressed by “free elections”) is part of the charade.
I don’t want to hear any more pious lectures about “saving” this gaping shit-hole of a society.
It’s beyond “saving.” It is the enemy of us all.
It is a threat to our children.
(((raven and family))))
good to hear !
egregious -
your nephew’s posting at CERN is impressive as hell !
link
ok awready, the grown up link
{{{{{Raven}}}}}
Here’s hoping all goes well with recovery!
to tokin liberal at 37. AMEN
selise @ 65
I’m right there with you. I edited my comment before submitting it by changing “rage” to “anger”. I woke up at 4:45 this morning – just stewing about this.
You’re spot on about positive action being the best outlet for this kind of anger, in fact, I told hubby last night that I’m taking a break from school to focus on anti-war activities. Now I need to figure out just how to do that. I’m ready to put my skin in the game. I think taking to the streets is the only answer now. (Hey, do you guys have bail money if I need it?)
raven @ 75
I was callin’ it perfume on a bucket of sh*t that still smells like a bucket of sh*t.
Scarecrow @ 77
There are probably a whole lot fewer of those things going out in the future with all the clicks on “unsubscribe.”
Scarecrow @ 64,
Exactly that. To kick things off, I went to pay my respects to the Ancient Bristlecone Pines just south of Yosemite. They are the oldest living trees in the world. Methuselah is 4767 years old and still looks terrific.
Adie @ 85
Thanks ya’ll. It’s scary, I watched my own pop go through it three years ago and I hope what they go through is worth it. . .no way to know but to do it I guess.
Scarecrow @ 77
here’s her comment:
Scarecrow @ 77
yeah – like this dkos diary from Bill in Portland Maine.
anyone have a rundown of the exact votes yestidie?
i’m meaning specific yays & nays on each measure by each critter….
got me some checkin’ to do before firing off some msgs. thanks.
Rep. Boner (R) still thinks Saddam was responsible for 9/11.
Funny, that he is asking this question but blaming the Democrats for not taking on the “terrists” instead of at Bush, who not only is not taking on terrorists, but creating them in Iraq.
How did this bonehead ever become a congressman? I hear the people in his district are still shaking their heads wondering how this dope ever made it to DC and become a big shot in the House.
Boehner Bloviates
This press conference was frightening. When Bush is this incoherent and then tops that off with a barrel of fearmongering statements, there is absolutely no reason to wonder why people around the world fear the u.s. more now than ever before in our history.
If folks have any questions about the original game plan that the “cakewalk in Iraq” zealots continue to implement go refresh your memory at the PNAC website, read the Defense and National Security strategies section (read it all) the plans are all there.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/
If you have not read the document that Richard Perle, Doug Feith, and David and Liv Wurmser produced for regime plans in the middle east refresh your memory.
http://www.iasps.org/strat1.htm
With yellow cake all over their faces Reuel Marc Gerecht, James Woolsey, Cheney, Bolton, Micheal Ledeen etc., have been repeating these unsubstantiated claims about Iran and have generally gone unchallenged. (I have heard Diane Rehms allow these statements to be repeated on her program). MSNBC’s Chris Matthews has consistently been the one mainstreamer who has challenged these unsubstantiated claims about Iran.
Cheney, Woolsey, Perle and the yellow cake team have been and continue to be marching our nation towards a confrontation with Iran.
Polls now report that 70% of the American people believe that Iran posesses nuclear weapons. This belief did not come to be via osmosis.
Many of the same people who warned against the pre-emptive invasion of Iraq based on highly questionable intelligence (which turned out to be completely false) are warning against a confrontation with Iran)including Iaea’s El Baradei, General Zinni, General Wesley Clark, Scott Ritter, Flynt Leverett
http://www.newamerica.net/pres…..n_and_iraq (Served in the CIA, state department, middle east expert, resgined from the Bush administration just before the invasion of Iraq etc. etc.
How many people are killed, injured or displaced is of no concern to these warmongers. It is the regime change and “creative destruction”
http://www.nationalreview.com/…..2001.shtml in the middle east that they are after and so far they are winning, and the people of Iraq are losing their lives by the hundreds of thousands in this psychopathic process.
Deja Fucking Vu folks! Deja Fucking Vu!
Thank you Mr. Pigeon.
Even the birds can spot BS.
GrandmaJ @ 60
I was dumbfounded to learn that Amy Klobuchar had voted yes but I expected as much from Coleman. And I haven’t heard much from Amy Klobuchar either but then this is her first term. I’ll call her to let her know it’s also her last.
David Ehrenstein @ 83
NO. They aren’t wrong.
It’s about electing REAL DEMOCRATS.
Not Joe Lieberman, or Hillary Clinton, or the Nelsons, or Landrieu, or Emmanuel.
It’s about REAL DEMOCRATS.
When REAL DEMOCRATS bail out of their own party and refuse to take the trash in their party to the curb, this is what you get instead.
It’s not time to give up on the party of FDR and JFK and RFK. It’s time to roll up the sleeves, put on the rubber gloves and the gas mask as necessary, and TAKE THE F*CKING TRASH TO THE CURB.
They can get the hell out of MY PARTY.
This is a lousy morning after a stinking awful day wherein we were treated to the Democratic surrender and the Chimpereor’s incoherent musings.
Why didn’t David Gregory follow up and say :”Mr President, how can you stand there and say my children aren’t safe when it is your policies, recklessness and cluelessnes that are making them unsafe?”
Get out your angst, anger, and venom and then, take a big deep breath and offer yourself this mantra:
We will fight the GOP bastards here, we will fight them in Hell and when when Hell freezes over we will fight them on the ice.
Let’s remember who the enemy is here. It’s not sorry sacks of shit in our party who voted for the suppleemntal. It is the GOP, Bush, Rove, Cheney and its media enablers. It’s Instaputz, Limbaugh, and Fred Hiatt.
We will not go away, we will only get louder and smarter, and, ultimately we will prevail.
Adie @ 93
Senate and House
Scarecrow @ 82
hang in there, good fella ;->
I am thinking people should take to the streets here in DC…..mobs and mobs of them.
I know some folks in the progressive blogosphere think protests marches are like, soooooo ’60’s……but I believe there is power in the sight and sound of masses of humanity, voices raised in united outrage.
Here are the 80 Democrats
who voted FOR:
What were they thinking?
Lincoln D-AR
Pryor D-AR
Feinstein D-CA
Salazar D-CO
Biden D-DE
Carper D-DE
Nelson D-FL
Akaka D-HI
Inouye D-HI
Harkin D-IA
Durbin D-IL
Bayh D-IN
Landrieu D-LA
Cardin D-MD
Mikulski D-MD
Levin D-MI
Stabenow D-MI
Klobuchar D-MN
McCaskill D-MO
Baucus D-MT
Tester D-MT
Conrad D-ND
Dorgan D-ND
Nelson D-NE
Lautenberg D-NJ
Menendez D-NJ
Bingaman D-NM
Reid D-NV
Brown D-OH
Casey D-PA
Reed D-RI
Webb D-VA
Cantwell D-WA
Murray D-WA
Kohl D-WI
Byrd D-WV
Rockefeller D-WV
Lieberman ID-CT
Scarecrow @ 9
Pandas?
For what it’s worth, these were the headlines (and appropriate paraphrase) when I first logged this morning:
Six more U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq [shrub losing his war evermore]
U.S. rejects German climate position: G8 draft [shrub sabotages the environment]
Al-Sadr makes public appearance in Iraq [shrub losing the war even worse]
Senators battle for immigration pact [shrub’s immigration policy collapsing]
China’s Wu pushes back after U.S. trade demands[shrub’s trade policy collapses]
Divided Congress approves Iraq war funds [shrub’s ever-worse war to continue]
Frustrated House panel threatens to subpoena FDA over food safety [shrub has sold our food safety to agribusiness and doesn’t want us to know about it]
House Lifts Veil Over Donations From Lobbyists [shrub’s corrupt rethug buddies]
Folks, the state our nation, under shrub.
zee, noen THANKS MUCH!
… ohhh… da#*!!!!
Somehow this capitulation by the democrats reminds me of their capitulation on the MCA vote last September. It makes absolutely no sense to me. In both cases, the principled stand would have been very popular with the voters, but in both cases they went with a DLC tactic of leaving no daylight between themselves and their republican opponents. If it hadn’t been for Howard Dean, that tactic would have handed the republicans yet two years of control of congress. What’s up with these people?
The thing is that excerpting text doesn’t convey just how incoherent and awful he was. See the stream at CSPAN. This man is beyond being an embarrassment.
Rayne at 74, thanks for sharing the conversation with Dean. It is interesting that he was, indeed, thinking about running again. But as he has stated, rather emphatically if I remember, he wanted his country back and will take any road open to him to achieve that. He is not quitting and neither will I. Sooooo…
As for the preschool, yeah, I probably won’t get too worked up. But the tensions are running very high in my family right now, and everyone is hiding in their respective corners. Which is tough when I now live with my daughter and am currently hiding out in my basement room, albeit with wireless internet, T.V. and my beloved quilting.
My oldest son is having even more problems. This is the son who lost his wife in February of ‘06 and he has been lost ever since. So, options are moving forward, or … well just that I guess. Same with our country.
Thanks for the response.
Umm, clearly that isn’t 80 Dems. I cut and pasted from a comment at Huffington Post. Perhaps someone has a better list.
Maybe everytime a soldier is killed in Iraq we should let our Reps know it is their fault and responsibility. Maybe let them know the names of the kids they have killed.
wgg: tokin liberal @ 24
We could be in Iraq wondering if we were going to have our heads blown off or having our doors kicked down by American and Blackwater forces. Instead we get to be the country doing the kicking. Fucked up!
As my father who served in WWII says “are you breathing ? count your blessings”. I really did not get this until I watched friends go off to Vietnam and not return, watched too many friends to mention die of cancer at young ages and watch my country export bloody wars to other people around the world.
cbl—Nephew at CERN is only 25. We have high hopes for his career in physics.
Adie—Thanks for asking. I am doing surprisingly well during this period of political ups and downs. I’m pretty calm, my health is good, am taking care of myself.
I am calm because I have already passed thru the white hot anger stage a while ago. This accounts for the some of the disparity in our reactions here, people are at different points along the path of political disillusionment.
Anger is energy. Learn to focus.
raven @ 75
I could be mistaken on this, but I believe the “rule” moment came in the House, followed by the two separate votes on parts 1 and 2. I believe the Senate then took the House bill as a whole and voted on it — just one vote. Anyone know for sure?
Kevster @ 99
Because the president doesn’t allow followups.
“Shameful moment” for sure Scarecrow, for sure!
the rude pundit yesterday: Democrats: Punk-Ass Bitches or Hostages to Lieberman?
Sounding more than a little beleaguered, Bush responded “I thought it was interesting how you started your question, ‘over the months,’ I think you said, ‘over the last months’… this investigation is taking a long time…. kind of being drug (sic) out, I suspect for political reasons… as I mentioned it the other day, it’s ‘grand political theater.’”–GW BUSH
Rayne @ 98
Yep. We need a leadershop moment right now. A “real democrat” to stand up and say, this is not what our party should be doing, and we’re not going to follow that path any more.
twolf1 @ 117
I LOVE the rude one.
okay…. that’s it.
Dodd for Prez.!
i wuz trying to hold back till they all had a chance to let dust settle.
there’s no dust. just mud. ick
dreamcatcher @ 94
snowbird42 @ 111
When I finally talked to someone in my reps office, I asked them how different the vote would be if they had to submit a war budget that listed names of the people who would die in the war, rather than just line items.
Maybe that’s why they don’t like when I call them.
GrandmaJ @ 109
Very sorry to hear your son is still struggling. If I could make a suggestion here, I would recommend reading The Year of Magical Thinking by Joan Didion. Heartbreaking pain, but amazing how she managed to emerge on the other side of it to explain how she lived in that first year following her husband’s sudden death. It might help with understanding where your son’s head is at.
Is traveling an option? Maybe you could travel around the country and stay with FirePups a few days at a time, be with kindred spirits and away from the fray.
It is still so difficult to comprehend that we have a completely spoiled child for a president. It’s makes me cringe to even watch him. He walks like he has a loaded diaper.
noen @ 103
Voted for what? I really don’t understand. Some of those people are very much against the war and are not idiots. What the hell is going on?
Adie @ 93
house votes:
senate vote is here.
not barak obama, or jack murtha, or steny hoyer, or just about any of the dumb, numbing f*ckers except mebbe dennis kucenich…
we are SOOOOOOOO f*cked…
bush’s manner of communicating is “crazy-making.”
We would never do this to a human. But if a child grew up interacting with someone who communicated in this way, the child would either become crazy or choose some other form of mental illness.
The kind of nonsensical, obfuscating, mind “bending into a pretzel” thinking that this man uses is not only enraging, but causes people to tune out or go nuts!
Scarecrow @ 120
And it ain’t Clinton…and it ain’t Obama.
Thanks Scarecrow for the post…my anger and frustration are reaching new heights again. I do believe that the Cowardly Lion had more courage than this wimpy, lying Congress!!!
Good news: KO made me smile last night showing the bird shitting on Bushie’s sleeve @ the press conference…Now if only the eagles or the vultures would just swoop down and grab this crook’s @ss and dispose of him…
Wigwam @ 126
That is a list of those who purportedly vote for continued funding of the war with no timelines. I pasted it from a comment at the Huffington. I’m looking now for a better or more authoritative list but I though I would give you what I had at the moment.
My mother and I have regular conversations about how “unhinged” this man is and how, with each press conference, this becomes ever more glaringly apparent. The man is completely gone, out there, la-la land. I still blame the msm for a lot of our woes. Even on KO, you have guys from Newsweek and WaPo talking about the man as if he is a sane, sentient being. What does it take? Does he have to approach the podium with a fake arrow sticking through his head, strumming a banjo, a al Steve Martin?
The msm was the date-rape drug for this administration’s lustful attacks upon our citizens’ basic constitutional rights, not to mention the robbing of treasury and lives for an illegal war.
Not too long ago, the people who were sleeping finally starting climbing out of their stupor with a really bad hangover and the uncomfortable sensation that they had been violated, but couldn’t figure out exactly how or why it happened.
Repeat after me:
In the Corporate State, ‘corporate’ media are State media.
rinse, repeat
.
I guess in spite of my fury at this mess, along with complete and utter disgust with my two Democratic Senators, I can see a light at the end of the tunnel.
The tunnel is unfortunately very, very long.
A good friend of mine told me yesterday she is going to run for state office. She is one of those grassroots activists who cut their teeth on Dean and worked with MoveOn in 2004, has put in the hard work and long hours to take back the party here locally. And now she’s going to run.
I could see her running for the Senate in 12 years. And I would give my right arm to help her get there, because she would kick some serious motherf*cking *ss.
I refuse to let these dirtbags who’ve sentenced our troops to horror of undetermined length stop her from running, stop her from being the kind of Democrat we need in office. They can lead, follow or get the f*ck out of our way.
Rayne said: Is traveling an option? Maybe you could travel around the country and stay with FirePups a few days at a time, be with kindred spirits and away from the fray.
Wouldn’t that be super? I was in Texas before the latest problem with my son and visited GrandmaJo in Corpus Christy and we had a great time. And That was the original plan in staying with my daughter. BUT money is needed for attorneys and now all available money I had is gone.
Still trying to salvage money for the Chicago trip. Rooms are booked, roommate (GrandmaJo) is sharing expenses, just need airfare money. Working on squeezing it in. Don’t want to miss an FDL breakfast if there is one this year. hint hint
But when I think of all the families who have AND WILL lose loved ones, to families who are struggling to reengage with wounded members, I sit down and shut up. My problems are very, very small compared to those.
kevster@99 David Gregory had a starring role in Bill Moyer’s PBS indictment of journalists in the buildup to the Iraq war.
Even the sparrow know Chimpy is full of sh*t
noen @ 131
Thanks.
I have great difficulty believing that Webb (for example) voted to continue the war with no restrictions, given all that he has said and the fact that he has a son there. I’m very confused by all of this.
Folks, our collective frumpiness has upset the Toobz goddess. Appreciate the patience while we kill a goat, or whatever it is we do.
oddmommy @ 102
I agree completely. 2 million people marching on Washington should send a message. The MSM might even cover it, unless of course they have appointments with their hair stylists. The only way things change in this country is when the politicians are pressured by masses of people to force them to act in the peoples interests and not in the interests of their reelections. Look at the labor movement, voting for women, civil rights, Viet Nam. The only thing that moves politicians are people in their outrage willing to fill the streets. They are either motivated by fear or self interest and it’s time to put the fear of God in them.
Toobz seem to be okay. Goat lived.
GrandmaJ @ 135
If you and GrandmaJo don’t smoke, SharonRB and I are looking for two more roomies to keep the expenses down. ??
Scarecrow at 138, please don’t kill anything to make the toobz better. Lay an offering at the feet of the toobz goddess. But an offering of sweet herbs and wine, not a bloody carcus. Cannot. Stand. Anymore. Blood.
thanks
Roll call on the Iraq supplemental
Jane Hamsher @ 140
But is the goat telling about it?
;-)
scarecrow, I’m not sure if this counts toward good news, but…
Now, OTOH, there’s this:
http://www.billingsgazette.net…..torney.txt
Oh. There’s also:
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/standings/index.jsp
thanks selise & all.
that vote is unbelievagable!
whu? where’d all the dems go????
they can’t ALL be on madam’s list, can they?!
I am unable to choose which of George Bush’s attributes impress me more. His arrogance, his unquestionable ability to lie, his ruthlessness, or his hypocrisy.
Wigwam @ 137
But he did. Webb voted yea.
Rayne, actually, neither of us do smoke. Altho my granddaughter accuses me of making ‘funny’ noises when I sleep. I will talk to Grandma Jo. Do you have rooms at the Hyatt? And we are planning to get to Chicago on the 1st and be bright and alert for the start of the convetion.
Let me talk to GrandmaJo.
dreamcatcher 94
omg, i caught boen-head’s performance yestidie.
what.an.idiot!
wuz makin’ dinner at the time, & i gotta be hungry to cook worth a darn – just totally destroyed me appetite.
i guess i now know how to go on a diet, oooogh!
Grouped By Vote Position
YEAs —80
Akaka (D-HI)
Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Bond (R-MO)
Brown (D-OH)
Bunning (R-KY)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Cochran (R-MS)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Dole (R-NC)
Domenici (R-NM)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Ensign (R-NV)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Inouye (D-HI)
Isakson (R-GA)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Kohl (D-WI)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McCaskill (D-MO)
McConnell (R-KY)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Roberts (R-KS)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Stevens (R-AK)
Sununu (R-NH)
Tester (D-MT)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)
Webb (D-VA
wgg: tokin liberal @ 133
See me @132
George Bush lectures us on what is right and what is wrong. This man obviously knows he is smarter than the American people.
you’ve got to have a dream, if you don’t have a dream . . .how you gonna make a dream come true
Gore/Dean ‘08 !!!
Dean/Gore ‘16 !!!
oh Adie,
been having those same thoughts – am loving Edwards to date, but as a sitting US Senator running for Pres – Dodd deserves our attention
Rayne -
the folks at moveon sent Senator Levin some, um, love:)
moveon – radio ad
Scarecrow @ 138
No sacrifices. A little incense and a candle will work just as well.
NAYs —14
Boxer (D-CA)
Burr (R-NC)
Clinton (D-NY)
Coburn (R-OK)
Dodd (D-CT)
Enzi (R-WY)
Feingold (D-WI)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Obama (D-IL)
Sanders (I-VT)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wyden (D-OR)
to summarize my comment 125 on the votes, here are our congress critters who did the right thing:
senators who voted against the funding supplemental for the iraq occupation:
Boxer (D-CA)
Burr (R-NC)
Clinton (D-NY)
Coburn (R-OK)
Dodd (D-CT)
Enzi (R-WY)
Feingold (D-WI)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Obama (D-IL)
Sanders (I-VT)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wyden (D-OR)
dem representatives who voted against the house rule allowing the vote for the funding supplemental for the iraq occupation:
Clay
Harman
Kucinich
McNerney
Moore (WI)
Stark
Waters
that’s it. imo, every other dem in congress deserves to be given an earful while they’re home next week.
On the eve of this Memorial Day weekend, let’s take a moment to “Salute the Troops”, pledge our loyalty to our common “Commander-in-Chief”, and celebrate those American patriots commemorated on the Stone Mountain frieze.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..02164.html
Your penultimate sentence hits home, scarecrow.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 146
total inability to exert a smidgeon of self awareness & reflection?
i keep trying to spot the windup key in ‘is back…
I am getting angrier by the day with my party.
selise at #157:
Harman? Amazing. Brava!
noen @ 151
It almost doesn’t make sense for me to call. I have Dodd on one hand and Lieberman on the other working at polar opposites. Personally I feel that Dodd is my only real senator. Lieberman took his seat by a corrupt, votebuying, BS campaign. He’s illegitimate. And we have no US Attorney to investigate because he’s to busy wiping Gonzo’s nose.
mui @ 154
noooooooooo! i luvs goats! candle’s fine…
I do not like it when another Democrat advises me I have no choice.
Good morning, everybody…or, good as can be. Still hung over from this godawful bill.
Getting a DCCC e-mail crowing about their victory really didn’t help.
Why anyone thinks the bully will stop hitting them when they give up their lunch money is beyond me.
Ladies and Genetelmen how about a big hand for George W(orse President Ever) Bush! He’s here till the end of 2008! Please tip your waitresses and try the veal….
Actually I think I will congratualte Dodd.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 147
But his lies are a thin as onion paper – he can’t even get out a good lie without sounding completely uninvested in that lie. Cheney laid out the talking points and it’s all he can do to remember them and spit them out. He doesn’t have what it takes “up there” to finesse them into a Reagan-like meringue. I think his few remaining brain cells are simply overtaxed and the meds are probably not helping all that much.
mui @ 155
Okay, okay. I see I’m the only pagan here.
GrandmaJ @ 148
Okay, keep me posted. I don’t know when SharonRB is arriving, guess I didn’t think to ask. I’m arriving on the 2nd in the morning, will leave on the 5th in the morning as well.
Is taking a train an option? much longer travel, but the fares can be very attractive. You may be eligible for senior or AAA fare rates, too. (Just looked into fares for another friend from KS to MI; was $400 round-trip for both her and her son.)
Wigwam @ 125
Fear that the VRWC wurlitzer MIGHT paint them as weak, soft, and not supporting the troops. Which it is going to do anyway, regardless.
People should also remember that Clinton and Obama waited to vote at the last minute when to supplemental had already passed.
Scarecrow @ 169
Oh see, that’s like saying one denomination is more Christian than the other. Hmm trying to write a nice lettter to Dodd right now.
New thread…
selise @ 157
My critter couldn’t be bothered to show up to vote, but I’m pretty sure he would have been 0-for-2. [Berman, CA-28 for the curious]
“Anger is energy. Learn to focus.”
Eg. love this. thanks. am very focused today!
noen @ 148
when I get done with work today I’m gonna call his office and see if they will tell me what is up.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 147
For me, its his BMI. Under 7% you know.
Scarecrow @ 9
Bush was not in a good mood during yesterday’s presser. I think there’s something going on. Then Rove and Fielding were spotted at the Capitol last night.
Bush should have been positively gleeful. That he was not may mean things are moving faster than we realize.
Scarecrow @ 168
Look at it this way…. every goat i ever met, bar none, is smarter and more sensible than whut we gots in the bigwhytehoose at the moment, or for the forseeable future.
if i need to vote for a goat, i’ll DO it!
so-help-me-goddess!
Scarecrow @ 169
are you really a pagan? Cool!
Scarecrow @ 169
If we need a virgin sacrifice, I’m sure all unmarried children of GOP candidates would qualify…
new thread by Christy upstairs
Christy’s new thread is ready.
Mutant Poodle @ 165
It is interesting, or sad I guess, that the DCCC is clueless about the netroots and the revolution in the base. This e-mail would make sense pre-2000, not today. They still think the political environment is as it was last century when people didn’t have access outside of the corporate controlled media.
A possibly idle query…
It drives me nuts to hear, “We just didn’t have the votes.” They knew in January they didn’t have the votes. They knew Bush would veto the bill. Did they really not consider what they would do after Bush vetoed the bill and they lacked the votes?
What was the thinking when this all started? Because if you read what Dem staffers have been saying privately, they seem all to have been caught by surprise in what a bad political bind they got caught in. (Let’s leave aside the apparently clear fact that there’s no actual bind here when 65%-plus support you.)
Planning, folks. Planning.
Solai @ 178
ray of hope? yes? whu?
Wigwam @ 137
webb has said many times that he opposes withdrawal timelines. even voted against reid-feingold.
Adie @ 150
Wasn’t that just the cherry on the f-ing sundae!! I threw several things at the teevee yesterday. Boner’s weeping was the target of the kleenex box.
Since last fall, i have been curious about why the doctrinnaire Dems have been so optimistic about their future in the Congress.
due to small ‘majorities’ and fractious caucuses within the Party, they NEVER had a chance to effect the policy agenda of the Congress.
and, paradoxically, their ability to impose accountability through hearings and other means makes their INABILITY to move an agenda all the more revealing of their weakness…
.
REAL DEMOCRATS like Al Gore — right Rayne? And look what happened the last time he ran. The teamed him with Joe Lieberman!!!!
Why do you think he’s not running, Rayne?
Because Al’s no fool, that’s why.
The system is not only corrupt — it’s beyond repair!
WAKE UP!!!!!
Mutant Poodle @ 182
pssssssst! They aren’t really virgins.
Professor Foland @ 186
don’t know, but here’s my guess…. it was all kabuki to convince the base that they had “done everything they could” to stand up to bush.
needless to say – we aren’t convinced.
(what do you think?)
McCain Returns to Senate
-via ThinkProgress
Mutant Poodle @ 182
or Monica?? Hee hee.
GrandmaJ, don’t know if you’re still in here — seriously think about the train. Have no idea where closest terminal is for you…but I just checked fare from Dallas (DAL) to Chicago (CHI), was $204 round trip with an afternoon departure on 31-JUL and afternoon arrival 01-AUG, return on 05-AUG.
David Ehrenstein @ 190
and? go on. don’t mince words with us.
falling silent at that point won’t work either.
spit it out, wizard…
Of course George Bush is a complete and utter disaster but keep in mind that the MSM has been his enabler for 7 years. Remember he’s the guy the MSM sold as “someone you would want to have a beer with” and since that point they have given him a pass on every screw up his administration has made. Why, because the MSM is as corrupt as this Administrationl. Not only does Bush need to be taken down but the MSM as well. They are nothing more than sychophants to power and priviledge. They are members of a ruling elite that have a vested interest in the status quo.
nebbermine. i’m off to see Christy…
Rayne @ 170
and look into greyhound or trailways. sometimes they have amazing deals (might take a while to get there)
David Ehrenstein @ 190
That happened for the very reasons Markos and Jerome outlined in Crashing the Gates. He listened to the f*cking consultants.
The f*cking consultants probably told Dems how to vote yesterday, too. The f*cking consultants need to go to the damned curb in a vacuum sealed bag NOW.
And the reason Al Gore isn’t running at this very moment is because he’s not listening to f*cking consultants.
Professor Foland @ 186
From their point of view they were successful because they were able to leverage opposition to the war to get other initiatives passed, like raising the min wage. They knew that there was zero chance of over riding Bush’s veto so they used that to their advantage. That is what the DCCC email is crowing about.
Normally I would say this was good. But I believe the situation called for the dems to stand their ground even in the face of Bush’s veto.
noen @ 191
But we could use them for practice until we got the sacrifice thing down pat.
David Ehrenstein @ 191
david -
could it be that this is a two pronged (or more) effort…. requiring both inside and outside the party effort?
for example, if the dems haven’t ended the war by the DNC next year some of us here plan to be outside protesting. and i expect some of us here will be inside…. both groups trying to push for change.
i plan to be outside for the DNC…. and i honor those who are working inside. we get leverage from eachother – if we can work together… instead of throwing accusations at each other.
Scarecrow, sounds like you should head over to Tanglewood, or at least spin some Vivaldi :)
Scarecrow @ 9
our morning paper reports discovery of a new set of baby stegosaurus tracks. if that doesn’t bring a smile to yr face, I don’t know what would!
selise @ 203
You know what would be great, selise? if from the outside you could vet the Greens and Libertarians and other party folks who are running. REAL Democrats lost seats to Republicans in districts where third party folks were funded by Republicans; I can think of two highly questionable races, one of which has cost my state dearly. The folks were not viable candidates — were not running real races. One avoided filing any papers, the other announced, filed, and did almost nothing in the way of campaigning.
I don’t have a problem with third party candidates; it’s my personal goal to work on establishing a viable third party once the Republicans have had their majority powers completely removed. But fake third party candidates hurt the democratic (little d) process. It would be groovy to have folks find, vet and ensure real races if they aren’t participating inside the Democratic Party.
And in the meantime, I’m going to continue to work on taking back the party from the inside out. My candidate just asked if I’ll do the website. Woohoo!!!
Bluetoe @ 139
So Bush will leave town and everyone will go home. What we need are tent cities with people staying for weeks.
Fresh thread for everyone. Just FYI…
Osama bin Laden is a really good hider.
Rayne @ 207
i don’t support fake candidates of any party (so i’m definately with you one that)…
but i don’t typically support third party candidates – so, at this time i’m really not interested in vetting their candidates (although i honor people who do that work).
but my overall point was that, imo, both electoral and non-electoral politics are part of the whole. regardless of party affiliation.
and for better or worse, right now i’m a D, and trying to change my party.
Jack Murtha has a post over at Huffington Post citing that this vote is ‘progress.’ I cannot post there, so will vent here.
No, Rep. Murtha, it is not progress. And every person who dies or is maimed from this date, will be on your collective consciences. No, sir, we are no longer buying the spin you are so vigorously spinning. Not. This. Time.
Rayne @ 201
Are you the “real” David Ehrenstein?
Commenting sure is hard on some websites (not this one) all of a sudden.
A local dj felt like fishing with Duke Ellington and Peggy Lee this morning:
It was a lovely presser Scarecrow.
Bin Laden may not be caught, but the President did take the opportunity to let us know that he is a) not traipsing around and b) not leading parades.
I know the traipsing and parade leading were the things that had me most concerned, so I’m very reassured now.
Rayne @ 201
I’m skeptical of the notion he “listened to” consultants. I think that someone put a figurative gun to Gore’s head, to saddle him Lieberman treacherous, leaking sack of shit Donna Brazile. It’s like the notion that Clinton wanted to “listen” to the other side when he allowed Republicans Richard Cohen, Dick Morris and David Gergen in his administration. It’s the Republicans who wanted to “listen” to the secrets of Clinton’s administration and Gore’s campaign. Sometimes I’m so baffled by the seemingly inexplicable cowardice of Democrats that I have to suspect there’s an element of coercion or blackmail.
brendan @ 216
You don’t really think the NSA is listening for terrorists, do you?
selise @ 211
This is why vetting — actively checking out third-party candidates — is a two-fer for you.
If they check out (have actually filed their paperwork on a timely basis, have actual donors, actually go out and campaign, have real positions on issues besides “Vote against X by voting for me”, have real literature that reflects their campaign, so on), then you may find another party and candidate to support. Good for you.
But if you check out a candidate who has done none of those things, AND they refuse to answer questions or followup with real changes to their campaign, then you know that the other candidates in the same race have a problem. That’s a fake candidate who’ll peel away enough votes for other good and solid candidates to win. This happened right here in my backyard, and I regret that I didn’t do the check on this candidate myself, as the loss of the seat by a few hundred votes that went to a fake candidate has plunged our state into a fiscal crisis because that same seat would have changed the majority in the state senate.
You can do it, selise; you may make a really big difference.
jonnyra @ 27
Your congresscritters will be home. Visit them. Often. Take friends. Take signs (the Freeway Blogger has some suggestions. Keep somone on duty with a sign or T-shirt and a light 7-24.
Cheaper and easier than a jillion-person demo in DC. More effective, too, and much better for the environment.
Rayne @ 218
i suspect it’s different in your state. here, in MA, our state leg is about 80% D, my rep and my senators are D, my state reps and city council reps are D. there just isn’t that big a risk from third parties (or even usually Rs) here. occasionally we get an R gov. but that’s it… we’re a D state.
not saying your strategy isn’t a good one for your situation… but where i’m at, it’s just not, usually, a good use of my time.
We need to struggle with why it is that a substantial majority of our Congress just voted — again — to give this dangerous, juvenile and deeply unpopular man another license to do whatever he wants…
Strange, isn’t it? It’s difficult to believe that so many Democrats are afraid of their constituents, with the war being so unpopular. Instead, they fear losing the support of the military-industrial lobbyists and donors on whom they depend. Also of Beltway journalists; they don’t want to be tarred with the loss of this war.
What the hell is the purpose of being in Congress if you are just there to follow the pack?
The only prong I’m interested in is the one that brings this bloody farce to an end.
And yes, I’m the real David Ehrenstein.
FYI:
(The Other) David Ehrenstein
dakine01 @ 171
If they defeated this bill, that fear might prove valid. But, once it became clear that this bill was going to pass, any individual senator could “bravely” side with the American People and cast a token vote against the war. And the mighty Wurlitzer would have drawn attention to his/her courageous stand against this unpopular president and his unpopular war. But only fourteen took advantage of that no-cost opportunity (and thee of them were Republicans).
Obviously, I’m missing something.
Wigwam @ 107
All I can imagine is they think that letting the Iraq war go a little longer will perhaps prevent Bush&Co from starting an Iran war.
It’s a stretch, but that’s all I see which would bring together so many different Dems.
In the midst of growing despair, disgust and rage, my good news is the aftermath of a Bowen Therapy treatment yesterday. Suddenly the gross, chronic level 7-8, crippling thigh pains have disappeared and I’m breathing better! Glad there is grace and healing power in some areas of my life and parts of my body. thanks be to God! But Lord, when will you bring grace and healing to our American public life?
Thanks for another terrific post, Scarecrow, even if you conclude that the worst may yet be to come.
(((((Kairos)))))
noen @ 103
I think I know the answer for these 2 —
These are highly-respected, straight-shooting fellows, WWII veterans (Inouye was 442nd, Akaka ACE). They have each been in DC for ages, and are no stranger to swapping their votes on a losing proposition for someone’s vote on what they hold dear. In 2005, for example, they voted for another doomed attempt at drilling in ANWR in exchange for Ted Stevens’ support for Akaka’s Native Hawaiian Recognition Act.
I can’t say I categorically approve of this sort of horse-trading, but I look at these men’s overall record before I condemn them for taking a strategic tack. They DID, take note, vote against going into Iraq in the first place!
As for all the wailing and rending of garments I’ve witnessed across Left Blogistan in the last 48, I also DO NOT BELIEVE that our Progressive interests are served by anyone having a hissyfit, taking their toys home, sitting in their rooms sulking. Better, like the boys in Animal House, put our energies into encouraging our wingnut friends to stay home and pout!
FWIW, politics is my chosen spectator sport, the Blues are my team of choice, and yes, like a Mets fan, I’m determined to stay loyal, keep up the tuff love, and STAY ON THEIR ASSES TILL THEY GET IT RIGHT.
The Dems aren’yet the party we want, but they’re the party we got — unless you think reforming the GOP would be an easier undertaking? (hang in there, Ron Paul!)
We wish our congresscritters were all “never give a inch”-ers, but we need to pick them up, apply bandaids, kleenex, or a paddle as needed, and send ‘em back with a renewed sense of purpose, and a reminder that pink slips start getting issued early next year at primary time.
egregious @ 227
How sweet of you!
I’m always fascinated by your comments.
Blessings,