In 1856 the Presidential election featured three parties, and the incumbent President ran on a platform of nativism. Indeed, slavery may have been the issue that people remember, but it was nativism which raised passions and caused a divide. In New York, the conflicts between English, Irish and German immigrants caused both social and physical conflict. "The Gangs of New York" is fiction, but it is based on real life struggles between competing interests groups.
In a fair world, there would be no illegal immigration, because there would not be economic disparities between countries sufficiently large to cause problems. While there are illegal immigrants from Canada in the United States, and illegal immigrants from the United States in Canada, and people do get into trouble for visa problems, there are scarcely enough stones thrown in that pond to matter. While there is some concern about illegal immigration from across the Pacific, largely what people mean when they talk about the "illegal immigration problem" is immigration of people from Latin America.
Estimates of how many illegal immigrants in the United States vary, with the lower end being approximately 7 million and the highest being 20 million. Which ever number one selects, this means that around 5% of the resident population in the United States is not here within confines of our system of documentation and recognition. As many as half again are illegal migrants. This means that there are probably 11 to 12 million people who are in one way or another, in the United States, and not part of system.
The law makes a distinction between laws that prohibit acts that are wrong in themselves, and acts that are wrong because there must be regulation and order. There is nothing intrinsically wicked about driving down the left hand side of the road – as long as everyone else is. There is nothing wrong with, and a great deal right with, wanting to go to a new country and make a new life, and participate in a vibrant and rich economy and society. We are not dealing then with a question where moral outrage is appropriate. The screaming and hand ringing from the hard right on the question comes from people who regularly violate laws such as speed limits and income taxes, and think nothing of it.
This is the first point we have to hold in mind about immigration: the numbers of people we let in, the ways we do so, and the means by which we give discretion, are all open to debate, just as the speed limit on a highway is. This means that articles on immigration which begin from the numbers, and then argue about reducing them miss the point: the question is not how to keep people out, but how many to let in, and how give incentives to others not to come and instead try and make a living in their own homeland. This means that the immigration debate is really a trade debate. Immigration is, after all, trade in labor. If immigration is broken, then it is our trading system which is broken, and people are voting with their feet.
In the 1990's NAFTA and a large bailout for Mexico, combined with continued neo-conservative policies at the top of Mexico's political system were the proposed remedy for the immigration problem from Mexico. Clearly they have not worked. Instead net undocumented migration has increased, with most estimates being that almost a million people attempt to settle or work as migrants, with only a quarter of that many removed. In fact the most effective way of getting an undocumented worker or resident to leave the country is to have them die. Only about 100,000 people are removed each year, while approximately 200,000 undocumented workers and residents die in the US each year
The economic impact of this population is astonishing. Consider that more money is sent home as remittances to other countries than the US spends on foreign aid to those countries. Consider that this population pays into Social Security, but cannot draw on that money. At the same time, the costs of this immigration fall heavily on localities. California, Texas, Florida, New York, Illinois, New Jersey, Georgia and North Carolina account for half of the undocumented population. Within these states a handful of metropolitan areas represent the bulk of the undocumented population.
This creates a classic political dilemma. Immigration, on net, benefits every one. Consider the iceberg lettuce in your cart. That was almost certainly picked by someone who was not documented. Likewise the cherries that you feast on, or the apples you give to your children. However, its burdens fall disproportionately on a smaller number of people, and those people know who they are. When the American economy was growing rapidly and wages were rising, more people saw undocumented workers as cheap labor, and were happy to leave behind those jobs. Now that construction is contracting, and the economy is generally stagnant for most workers, the positions of Americans on immigrants, in fact all immigrants, has reversed. It isn't that immigrants are depressing wages, it is that the collapse of housing construction is putting American citizens and legal residents in economic competition with illegal immigrants. Immigrants aren't taking up jobs, jobs are simply not appearing fast enough to absorb the growth in population.
Taking the hourly wage picture across the United States, there is no correlation between increases or decreases in wages, and concentration of illegal or undocumented workers. In fact, many of the fastest growing areas of the country, are also areas with high concentrations of illegal immigrants. This makes sense, people coming here to make more money working, are going to go to those areas where there are jobs to be had.
That wage pressure is not the concern in Washington DC can be seen from the current immigration bill. It will not remove anyone from the US who is not going to be removed anyway. By creating a "guest worker" program, it will create a flood of opportunities for people to disappear into the vast world of the American underground economy, increasing, not decreasing the number of people who can stay in the United States beyond their visa or other permission to be in the United States. In short, if wages were the concern, this would not be the bill to address them. Nor does the plight of localities in education and service providing cross Washington's mind very much either, there is no net new funding for localities affected by immigration.
As the election of 1856 should remind us, immigration is not a "problem" but a symptom of other problems. Our response to immigration as a symptom has to be based on having a plan to reduce the pressures that immigration creates in the present, so that we can deal with the root causes of immigration at large. In the United States, those problems are a trade regime which has failed to elevate living standards in Latin America, and economic policy here at home which has concentrated economic growth around a few industries.
With the present legislation, Washington has largely decided to "kick the can down the road" on all of this, and pretend that hiring a few out of work people along the border to drive back and forth will alter a Mexican economy which is corrupt and bleeding money, even in the middle of a huge oil boom. The best course would have been to provide aid to localities bearing the costs of immigration, and begin a process of integration into the US society. Instead, we are likely to see the reverse, an attempt to create a non citizen migrant laboring class. Europe has tried this, and without success – indeed despite guest worker programs and attempts to export people back out of the core European nations, their immigration problem, social and economic, has continued to expand.
Ultimately the solution is a more prosperous planet. Countries that grow rapidly and have broad and deep expansion in opportunity, don't create immigration problems. However, that ultimately is going to be delayed, not improved, by another round of "kick butt and take names" showmanship. This showmanship has been tried with many anit-immigrant bills in the past, which seek to deny upward mobility to incoming immigrants. This is precisely the wrong thing to do, and is even illogical. How, if the problem of immigration is depressing wages and creating social service burdens of a low end competition, is keeping people in that low end a solution. The reality is that the very people pushing immigration as a problem are really saying that the problem is that the people coming into the US don't know their place.
The political reality is that approximately every decade during a wage squeeze, immigration becomes "a problem" and the solution is some form of amenesty, and a promise to "do something." We've reached that point in the cycle, and very little can be done about it in the short term. However, having reached this point, we should take the lesson, and begin a program of absorbing, and not submerging, the immigrant population in the US.
Related posts:
- Harsh Immigration Provision in Senate Health Care Bill Denounced by Catholic Bishops
- GRITtv Live: Is Immigration Reform Dead?
- Minuteman Killer Co-Hosted Anti-Immigration Event in 2007 Featuring Tom Tancredo, Duncan Hunter and Fred Thompson
- Joe Wilson: Both Lying and Stupid; Immigrants Buying Insurance Makes Sense
- Obama (and John Boehner) on Al Punto





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100% STIRLING!
Hi Everybody!
I hate this war
Good discussion. I like to argue the abortion issue in terms of a more comprehensive framework of social and economic justice, but I really hadn’t thought of immigration in similar terms…until reading this.
Thanks for this Sterling. Now to read…
Hold the businesses that demand cheap imported labor responsible.
The obvious solution that naturally will never be done.
I’ll admit to having supported NAFTA, on the belief that it would improve the Mexican economy enough so illegal immigration would drop to a non-issue like with Canada. Living in California, that just made sense to me.
It turned out, of course, that NAFTA didn’t even end up helping the Mexican economy.
Phule @ 5
That’s also why the integration Stirling suggests would be so hard to achieve. The corporations that benefit from undocumented labor don’t want it documented–they want to pay pennies on the dollar compared to above-board labor and have no responsibility for workplace conditions, benefits, or indeed any commitment to their workers’ longer-term situation. Integration means regulation, and these “people” will never support that.
excellent analysis, brotha!
that ‘more prosperous planet’ thing?
i read someplace that in order to provide the WORLD’S poor with the same standard of living enjoyed by the USer poor, there’d hafta be two whole other planets just like earth nearby to supply the resources…
such helpful astronomical phenomena have not been noted recently in the firmament of space, i believe?
Welcome, Stirling!
OT, but EPU’d from thread just prior…
MEG @ 135
***
And that scandal would be…?
Excellent overview of immigration, Stirling. Thank you for sharing this with us. I agree. When did we become America who turns away people instead of America who welcomes everyone?
Christ if I hear one more upper class twit talk about Americans being too lazy to pick lettuce, I swear to god I’ll never vote for another Democrat for the rest of my life. If business can’t find enough employees, they aren’t paying enough. Let them dip into those record profits that the average Americans hears about, but never sees. illegal immigration only helps union-busting employers avoid paying a fair wage.
From the various “immigration reform” proposals from the right over the years, you can see what the real goal is: a disposable menial labor force that cannot vote, drive, get services such as health care, or gain in education.
As Stirling Newberry writes, immigration will take long term, thoughtful, and expensive solutions. It’s why the current immigration bill is a deadletter. Either it will be picked apart in June or it will pass and be ineffective.
CD @ 9
Please, God, let it involve a blow job.
I’d like to see these anti-immigration blow hards mow their own lawns.
Stirling Newberry @ 12
That was the purpose of NAFTA, cheap labor, no benefits.
Stirling – thanks for sharing this post with us – it’s great to have you at the Lake!
Siun @ 17
Seconded!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 15
I have to draw a line there. There are too many sweaty, morbidly obese topless middle-aged American males as it is.
Go to Cali or Florida and take a look at who is putting on the new roofs or pouring the concrete. People who don’t speak English. That’s who. And for not much pay and no bennies too.
OT-Any chance that there’s something hidden in the spending bill that no one knows about?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 20
Shhhh! How’d you know?
And for all those well off wine drinkers who complain about illegals. Who the hell do you think picks those grapes?
TRex @ 18
Third-ed! ;~)
Fourthed.
OT: Senate is voting right now.
Can you just imagine “A Day Without a Mexican”?
soullite@11
“If business can’t find enough employees, they aren’t paying enough. Let them dip into those record profits that the average Americans hears about, but never sees”
Bingo!
Let’s also not forget that immigration – and the US is far from unique in being a popular venue for immigrants – spans the breadth of the populace, from hired hands on a farm, to specialist programmers. The former often have few legal means of relocating, if any; for the latter, in the case of an H-1B, the hurdles include: having a four-year degree of suitable equivalency; the employer must be willing to wait several months until they can begin work; the employer also faces a few thousand dollars in governmental and legal costs.
Even if such an accommodating employer can be found, the cap may ensure both employer and prospective employee lose. One provision of S.1348 is raising the limit from the current 65,000 (some being reserved for particular purposes) to 115,000 per year.
I fully support an individual’s ability to move where they wish to be, providing they pay their way, and comply with whatever taxation may be required of them. Such freedom ought not be solely the realm of the corporation.
Olbermann tells Turley that “it’s a shame they don’t have any lawyers over at Justice”.
Senate passed it, god dammit.
Oft, sorry – Turley on KO “when you strike out the lines (of Abus’ testimony) that appear to be false, you’re left with little more than his introduction as Alberto Gonzales”.
heh.
The F*cking Senate has caved too!!! ARGHHH!!!!
One of the few smile inducing moments was seeing Sen. Salazar help turn back Coleman’s gag order provision.
beth – they are still voting, the question I’m watching is who votes no.
Stirling Newberry @ 33
Missed it what was the gag order provision?
newspaperbrat @ 24
Fouthed???
Obama – No …
thank you Chris Dodd for forcing at least one of them to vote no, still unsure about Clinton
Obama NO
It turns out that not only do things like NAFTA and CAFTA not help but they actively harm the economies of those non-industrial nations foolish enough to sign on to them.
The neo-liberal boosters of these free trade pacts mention off handedly that there will most likely be some short term economic pain before the long term economic gain sets in.
The truth of the matter is that the short term pain is far longer and far more painful than many of these countries and their people are able to bear and the long term gain has rarely proved out.
Free trade is written to benefit one entity and them alone- large multi-national corporations who really could give a damn about the host country as long as they can exploit the resources and labor of the country without regulation which is what these free trade deals are set up to do.
When you can’t feed your family, of course you resort to something desperate.
Clinton – No
so she did wait to see what Obama would do
Per KO, Clinton and Obama voted NO after issue already decided…
80 aye
14 nay
Afraid I need to disagree with you Stirling.
To my mind, the solution is a more equitable and caring distribution of the resources this planet already has.
dakine01 @ 41
They weren’t my first two choices to begin with….
14 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Siun @ 37
At least some of the Presidentials glance at the polls!!! Evening, Firepups!!! :-)
Siun @ 42
Who were the fourteen redeemables?
EvilDrPuma @ 44
The issue was decided long before the vote took place, so waiting didn’t make any difference.
Today’s WPITW is: DoD for discharging 58 gay arabic language spec*alists
(Mod Note: *edited to allow through spam filter)
Used to work with a one-worlder ‘pub.
According to him, everything’s going as planned.
Skyrocketing world pop major factor.
I’ve been out of it. Did the house already vote?
Besides Johnson who else did not vote?
Loo Hoo. @ 50
yep. we done been had.
F*ck I went into moderation with WPITW
TexBetsy @ 43
Evening, TB!!! A fair and equitable distribution of the Planet’s Finite resources!!! *g*
Facist cowards. Face it folks, we are living in facists times. Like Orwell and Kafka wrote about only with a fast food joint on every corner. As Orwell wrote:
I wonder at what point the brain dead masses will get up and do something? Maybe when they start prying the greasy cheeseburgers from there fat swolen fingers.
Score in the house, TB?
dakine01 @ 53
freed – refresh your page
Clinton and Obama have made a serious political mistake. Voting NO wasn’t enough. They should have been on every talk show and should have been showing leadership. They will be booed from now until something is done to end this war. Hillary is my Senator. I will boo her.
CTuttle @ 55
DingDingDing!!!
Isn’t Hillary the slick one.
I have been teaching legal and illegal immigrants age 7-19 for the past 15 years. My experience is that most of them want to learn, want to learn English, and have a better respect for authority and the learning process than students born in the U.S.
Suzanne @ 58
Thank you Suzanne for saving us from ourselves these days. Not thinking clearly at all…
Loo Hoo. @ 56
what score?
Loo Hoo. @ 51
Miserable results, only 73 Nays, Repugs had 72 nays, only 1 Dem!!! WTF!!!!
EvilDrPuma @ 47
From memory…
Obama
Clinton
Whitehouse
Kennedy
Kerry
Dodd
(I swore I heard Coburn)
and others…
Of course Obama and Hillary waited. Clinton/Obama in 2008.
CTuttle @ 65
That was one of the amendments The House secretary reversed things.
Boxer, too.
What kills me about immigration of the brown folks from South and Central America is this –
the selfsame people who scream about all the horrors brought by this migration of people looking for a way to survive economically will simultaneously be the ones who back all the South and Central American fascist ruling classes who make life so hideous for their serfs that the serfs pick up and move North.
This makes sense exactly how?
Oh I get it! The serfs are supposed to shut up and just LOVE their serfdom.
I guess their desire to see their children do better in life than they have is somehow an example of awful selfishness, when that same desire in the American middle class is a virtue leading to the vital economic engine of the “American dream.”
So to take the brain off the stress of the idiots on Capital Hill, TCM is showin a decent old John Wayne war movie right now. Not quite halfway through it. In Harm’s Way in case you’re interested. Or not.
CTuttle @ 64
Maybe the business about following what the Iraqi people decide has some merit? Or are the dems saying-your war, republicans/Bush. enjoy it? I can’t see anything that makes sense here.
dakine01 @ 68
Oops, missed that Bra!!! Howzit!!! It’s still a frickin, miserable performance by our Body Politic!!!!
Who were the fourteen redeemables?
make it twelve. Obama’s and Clinton’s votes didn’t really count.
They first had to check the weatherman to know which way the wind blowed.
totally spineless. Come on, Mr. Gore, can’t ya help a brother out here?
A bird shit on the President today during the press conference.
just got this from the DCCC. want to be sick
CTuttle @ 73
Trueness. But I’m all wore out with the outrage all day which is why I’ll watch a couple of hours of John Wayne instead…
lolo @ 75
I wonder who sent the bird …
lolo @ 75
And a wondrous site it was. C&L I believe has the video up as does ABC. There were some links to the ABC version a couple of threads ago.
The well to do in this country supporting corrupt right wing regimes in third world countries makes perfect financial sense. For the well to do.
Hillary & Obama = Day late and a dollar short.
Edwards showed more leadership then both of them combined.
TexBetsy @ 78
A patriotic sparrow…
Oklahoma kiddo @ 80
And since they care nothing at all for the rest of us … it continues.
solai @ 59
I’m not so sure. They both realized they needed to cancel each other out, so they did. As cynical as that is, they cannot attack each other, and serve to give each other cover. Crazy.
We’d all like to give Bush the bird.
lolo @ 74
Did Boosh call the bird an illegal immigrant?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 80
Yeah, we’re at war, just not the war most folks think we’re involved in.
If Hillary gets the Demo nod, she’ll choose Obama as the veep. Yuk. Two yuks.
LooHoo@72, Wouldn’t that be either, poetic justice and/or bitter irony, for our puppet govt installed in Iraq, overwhelmingly, requests our prompt departure??? Things that make you go; HMMMM…!!!
CTuttle @ 89
That would be lovely. Do you think Bush would listen?
dakine01 @ 77
I hear ya, Pilgrim… ;)
bird poop link
Clinton Aide Doubles As PR Rep For Coal Company
Draft Whitehouse!!!
As for a new scandal brewing bigger than all the others, per EPU’d Meg 135,
that is probably the only thing that will make me feel better…
Bush is an illegal alien? Bush is an alien?
What is it with the New York Times? They had a very good editorial on Goodling’s testimony, but this week they have had not only op-eds from Max Boot but Reuel Marc Gerecht. What is it old home week for unregenerate and relentlessly wrong neocons? Is Keller afraid the country might be on the verge of a sane foreign policy? Not to worry, Bill, just look at the House and Senate votes today. Plenty of unreality there to comfort you. Or are you with Gerecht’s piece doing your bit to beat the war drums with Iran? That hawkishness sure must be addictive because you never seem to get over it, do you?
TexBetsy @ 90
The smirkin chimp has repeatedly told us; “We’ll leave, when they ask us to…”, I’m more inclined to think it is merely a Repug Talkie, however, hope springs eternal!!! :P
Hugh @ 95
Gerecht’s pure evil
CTuttle @ 91
Actually that movie was Tuesday afternoon. But also one of Wayne’s best. In fact my favorite of his westerns with only one thing missing.
dakine01 @ 98
Uhoh, dare I ask???
Randi Rhodes said today that we can do two things. Send e-mails,faxes and calls or go a million strong to Washington.
When will we finally stop the madness? We worked our hearts out last year for our Dems and they betrayed us tonight. For what?
Biden on the floor justifying his vote. He,ll never get mine.
I will only give money now to candidates who are anti-war. I will check their voting records too.
lolo @ 74
Shit happens.
lolo @ 75
Then he wiped it away with his fingers. Then picked up a glass of water. eewwwww
solai @ 102
He is no more mature than my 13 yr old.
Coultergiest on Faux News raggging on Edwards.
Obama, Clinton, Whitehouse, Kennedy, Kerry, Dodd, Boxer
(I swore I heard Coburn, maybe Coleman??)
I didn’t hear Feingold, but I’m thinking he’s on the list of No’s. Also, I seem to remember Rockefeller being a No.
Oh yeah, Leahy.
CTuttle @ 99
He only used the lines with “Pilgrim” in two movies, in McClintock (on yesterday afternoon, he used it once. The movie I’m talking about he used it seventy some times. The movie you ask? The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance with Jimmy Stewart and Lee Marvin. The one thing missing is the movie did not use the song.
Mrs. K8 @ 70
One of the few good points about Bush’s economic policy is that the flood of dollars for energy into South America has pushed politics there sharply to the left.
snowbird42 @ 100
A few arguments I had heard bandied about, was every congresscritter wanted this over before the Memorial break because they didn’t want the critters to be swayed by their constituencies over the break!!! Now, they only have to face an even more infuriated constituency!!! Will they ever learn? (Sorry, rhetorical ques.)
Loo Hoo. @ 101
Couldn’t happen to a nicer Feller!!! :P
TexBetsy @ 91
ewwwww he touched it
dakine01 @ 106
Capiche!!!
Whitehouse on C-Span now.
lolo @ 110
How dumb do you have to be to not recognize that the mess on your arm is from a bird and it’s best to use a tissue?
Hi CTuttle and Dakine. Any pork chops lately?
Remember the avian flu scare? I wonder. Hmmmmm.
Hmmm, feeling a little better. Ridiculing our pres is good for my mood.
Or, maybe it’s the wine.
solai, some disadvantages to having lived an entirely sheltered life. You don’t know what to do with bird shit.
Hi, TexBetsy…yes, I remember it…?
RonD @ 118
If an infected bird pooped and someone touched it and then touched their water ….. what would happen?
Loo Hoo. @ 114
haven’t had any for a few weeks. Made a teriyaki london broil this past Sunday and Sunday before that was fried chicken…
7070707!
Vote’s up. The 14 are:
Boxer (D-CA)
Burr (R-NC)
Clinton (D-NY)
Coburn (R-OK)
Dodd (D-CT)
Enzi (R-WY)
Feingold (D-WI)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Obama (D-IL)
Sanders (I-VT)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wyden (D-OR)
http://www.senate.gov/legislat…..vote=00181
y’all know there’s a new thread on rudy?
newtonusr @ 111
From the emails…”If you want to meet with the AG you must be cheerful and respectful”
Oh, brother
Cozumel @ 124
I know. Astounding what we’ve seen happen to the proud institution.
Stirling — sorry to catch this so late, but what a great post; this one my rabidly red-state father-in-law will have a difficult time not agreeing with in principle.
fat people are the reason we can’t get the congress or administration to listen to the 70% populace who demand troops out of Iraq?
damn, that’s a leap i hadn’t seen. yet.
i managed to email and call rep and both senators during lunch, (yes, a cheeseburger.), for all the good it did me.
Go Edwards. you seem to be the only one Who Gets It.
My letter to my Democratic senator tonight…
Shame. I helped to elect you as part of the Democratic wave of 2006. High on the agenda that got that wave elected was the mandate to get us out of Iraq. President Bush needed to be stopped, not enabled merely because he held his breath and stomped his feet. You joined in the capitulation, against the mandate that worked hard to elect you. I’m not as ashamed of Kit Bond, though I will also work to see him retired at the end of his current term.
America needs a new direction, but sadly, you chose the same path that is killing our sons and daughters. Every IED, every suicide bomb, every ambush that kills our kids is now partly on the Democratic party’s…and by extension your….shoulders. Shame.
Before this vote occurred I was wondering about Ohio’s own Sherrod Brown, who clearly rode the disgust of all things rethug into office last November.
Don’t see his name on the list above.
Not good.
Screw immigration and the fascist Catholic church that comes with it. They have already coalesced with the Evangelicals and Fundamentalists and with that union they’ll be knocking on your door to see if you’ve read your bible today, or to borrow one of your kids for excercise.
pitman | 05.24.07 – 8:40 pm | #
pitman @ 130
That is totally insulting and I resent it as a Roman Catholic.
Franklin Pierce was the incumbent in 1856 and he didn’t run again after the Democrats declined to renominate him. Millard Filmore ran as a Know-Nothing, but he was a former President, not the incumbent at the time.
Dang it, ikl3, beat me to it.
Firstly I am appalled that Tester voted for this piece of crap. Folks here in Helena MT are really wondering what our wonder boy is doing out there in DC…
And as a Canadian I understand why some Canucks want to come to the US – they think that the wide open capitalist system will allow them to make the megabucks that they are denied back home. Doesn’t really happen – I live here because my husband is American, and there is many a day I would like to be back in BC. Whatever. But there are just as many Americans who want to move to Canada – a country with a social conscience, and just as difficult to get into LOL
The reality in this country is that manufacturers and processors need cheap labor. Do any of YOU want to work in the chicken processing plant? Not likely. But some dude from Guerrero in Mexico, who was living in a palapa with a dirt floor, cooking in said palapa over wood scrounged from the surrounding scrub, with absolutely no way of making any money, would be prepared to scrape his way across the border with just the clothes on his back and find his way to some dreadfully dangerous job which pays like $4 an hour. We simply have no idea of how desperate these folks are. I lived in Mexico for a year, and understand their plight.
This immigration bill is a piece of shit. Guest worker program = get them in here to work for nothing, and don’t let them have their families with them. This is slavery in the 21st century, and all that crap Bush spews about “helping” immigrants is nothing more than helping his corporate buddies get cheap labor with the worst working conditions imaginable.
Any more we only eat meat raised and processed in Montana. I wouldn’t eat chicken from Safeway if my life depended on it – which it probably would.
These poor people from south of the border who think they are lucky to have a job are being exploited just like the slaves were when the country was in its infancy.
Every one talks about Illegal immigration but for legal immigrants there is no voice. I came to US in 97 when after finishing my under grad. I always wanted to come here. (my mom used to tell me that I used to say when I grow big I want to go to US of A when I was in middle school. I started preparing for GRE even before I got out of school). Some sheer luck (getting student’s visa in 97 was pure luck)I got here finished my MS. I got job (the h-1 that everyone talks about) with H-1 you cannot move to a different employer and you cannot get a big promotion and you basically keep working more and getting paid the same salary. I got married (wife cannot work, even though she is University topper and Gold medalist in her field). I got very good offers from different
companies but I cannot move as I am stuck with the employer (I have to get my Green Card).
I always used to have very high regard for this country and believe me I still do but now with this new bill I may have to wait around 13 to 4 5 years to get my green card. I believe this country has failed everyone who believed in it like me. Now I don’t have any regrets before I used to contemplate going back to my country but now. I am going to make some more money (I already invested back home which I would have put here in a house and it grew twice) and with out any regrets I will say bye forever to this country which I desperately wanted to make home.
http://immigrationvoice.org/fo…..php?t=4684
That is totally insulting and I resent it as a Roman Catholic.
That’s your problem lady – I never could figure out who could belong to this fascist organization that has hid child molestors for over 2000 years – ask Cardinal Law who was promoted by the Pope after hiding some of these modern day molestors. The church just lost its first case in Jersey where I think a Deacon was screwing little kids – you must be a proud Catholic.
so when are you forming a third option to the bipartisan monopsony (not sure its a real word) of military occupation of countries where you never had any business to go into and destroy that actually believes in rebuilding civic society?
k… that last post was out of sheer exasperation…. migration to improve one’s or one’s children’s chances in life can never be eradicated as long as economic disparities across national borders remain a reality and we remain humans. Would it not be cheaper and more productive to boot to invest in the Mexican economy? Or even to disenfranchise Monsanto and et al from destroying the rural infrastructure of other countries that compels the impoverished to seek survival at whatever cost? Lets face it, building an even higher prison population of non criminals and border fences are hardly productive uses of taxpayer dollars – so what are you fighting for?
ferg @ 6
Republican DLC-Dem policies, what did you expect?
What was the effect you saw? Was there no good that came from it at all? Did only the Rich benefit at everyone else’s expense?
Surprise me.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 26
Excellent movie. I highly recommend it.