The Bush Justice Department has had more than five full years to prepare a case against Jose Padilla. And each time it does, it falls apart. The “dirty bomber” charges didn’t stick. Charges of blowing up high-rise apartment buildings blew away in the wind. Now, that Padilla is receiving a full trial, armed with his own lawyers, ther prosecutorial skills seem to flee like so many vampires before the dawn.
In 2004, the Justice Department knew for certain that Padilla would soon be free. How did they know that? The Supreme Court told Padilla’s attorneys and then provided them with a legal roadmap showing how – if they made a few minor technical changes in the lawsuit – the Court would vote just as they had for U.S. citizen Yaser Esam Hamdi who also had been denied his constitutional rights.
But in 2004, following the Supreme Court notification, the Justice Department cheated. They mooted (dropped) the terrorism charges against Padilla (the ones that garnered those Bush-foils- dirty-bomb headlines.)
Instead those Federalist Society legal minds at Justice came up with fresh (er, make that stale) charges for Padilla: “conspiracy to murder, kidnap and maim” unnamed people outside the United States. They made those charges in a Federal Court in Florida because the government already had two people there, Adham Hassoun, a computer programmer in Broward County, Fla. and civil engineer Kifah Jayyousi, already under indictment in Florida for those same charges.
* * *
Days into the Padilla trial the prosecution presented what was to be their key witness. This was a repentant Yahya Goba, sentenced in his 20s to 10 years in prison for being a terrorist and testifying, he said, in hopes of leniency. Goba, was the prosecutors' “second” serious witness and had been a member of Yemeni-American Al Qaeda “sleeper cell” in Lackawanna, N.Y. (The first had been a “disguised” CIA agent who, though only able to speak and read English, miraculously made his way through a truck load of documents given to him by an anonymous Afghani whereupon, our intrepid CIA agent just happens upon an Al Qaeda recruitment document (in Afghani) signed by Padilla.)
Warren Richey of The Christian Science Monitor captured the chaos of the government’s case brilliantly in his May 21, 2007 story.
… [T]he picture of Goba that is emerging from the witness stand at Padilla's trial is less menacing than federal prosecutors had hoped. Rather than boosting the government's case, his testimony appears to be helping Padilla make his..
The government had hoped to use the fact of Goba’s “terrorist training” in Afghanistan as a replica of the training Padilla had undergone.
In this cross examination, captured by Richey, we see why the Justice Department never wanted Padilla to have his own attorneys.
"Are you now, or have you ever been a terrorist?" Padilla defense lawyer Michael Caruso asked."No," [Yahya] Goba answered.
"You felt that it was necessary to do this training so that if called upon, you could help your [Muslim] brothers and sisters facing atrocities all over the world?" Mr. Caruso asked.
"Yes," Goba said.
Defense lawyers asked Goba to explain his beliefs about jihad, or Islamic holy war. He agreed that jihad can represent an inner struggle within a Muslim and that when it takes the form of physical fighting, it is only acceptable in defense of Islam and Muslims. (Emphasis added)
"So murder is not jihad?" asked William Swor, a lawyer for a Padilla codefendant. "Unfairly injuring someone is not jihad?"
"Yes," Goba answered to both questions.
Richey summed up how well the prosecutors had done.
By the end of the cross examination, prosecutors knew they were in trouble…”
So – what do we have, so far?. A CIA agent who can’t read any Afghani finds a recruiting application in Afghani signed by Padilla. Goba? He says jihad is not murder, so saying Padilla was bent on jihad didn’t mean all that much.
What does the Justice Department have in the way of evidence?.
They have 300,000 taped phone conversations, of which 230 phone calls are the heart of its case. Of those 230 calls, 21 make reference to Jose Padilla. Of those 21 phone conversations, Padilla’s voice is heard on seven. Of those 7, there are discussions about having some “picnics,” so they could “smell fresh air and eat cheese” and oh, yes, a very “significant” blather when Padilla talks about spending $3500 on “zucchini.” No talks of terrorists acts, no bombs. Nothing.
The government claims the food references were code.
Even if this conjecture is true, can the government prove zucchini translates to terrorist bombs? What vegetables are code for murder, kidnapping, and maiming?
(With Rachel M. Koch)
Lew can be reached at lew dot koch at gmail dot com.
(Still from Exhibit E, Docket No. 695, Filed December 1st, 2006 – USA et al vs. Hassoun et al, U.S. District Court, Southern District of Florida;)
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To or not to ?
Zed??
LEW!!!
Welcome Lew! Apologies for not coming up sooner, we are all a bit peeved at the party tonight…
whoa. terrorist zucchini? who knew? god help us if they get to the eggplant…
And Patrick Fitzgerald is a mediocre attorney. Something tells me that the man who got the convictions on the first WTC bombing would not have bothered to make an attempt on this sorry excuse for a prosecution.
Keith!
Alfred Kelgarries @4
Thanks for the welcome.
Alfred Kelgarries @5 — Wait till they get to the shrooms.
Lew Koch @ 8
IMHO, THEY were the ones on shrooms…or at least federalist society peyote buttons (red white and blue, how patriotic!)
Every time I think of Jose Padilla, I shrink from shame.
Every time I hear of another of our service people killed in Iraq, I boil with anger.
AAAArrrrggggh!!! Will no one free us from this anguish??
… and from the chilling effect of feeling it necessary to make the object of the preceding sentence general rather than deservedly specific?
Yes! The eggplant! You’ve seen photos of the bombs dropped on Japan at the end of WWII? Roughly spherical, with one end larger. Ever seen an eggplant? The same!!! There it is, the smoking gun! Or smoking eggplant. Or mushroom cloud. Or, um, something.
Steve T. @ 11
hey, you meet the minimum qualifications for the WAR CZAR! Fax your resume to KommisarKarlosivitch@RNC.neener.neener
Lew Koch @ 8
Thanks for focusing on this, Lew. So much of the alleged liberal media can be counted on to not even do their homework.
Jihad in the Slaw Lane.
Nice work, Lew.
Isn’t Al Qaeda a subsidiary of Western intelligence?
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 13
isn’t that the truth? try finding ANY of the things Lew describes in the MSM…go ahead, we’ll wait…
….crickets….
Here’s yet another story showing that the only thing good about this Republic era will be its end.
Sshhhh…the kids are TERRIFIED of zucchini. They’ll freak out if you talk about them too loudly.
They’ll whine and cry and ask me to promise, please, please, not to cook them for dinner but to make chocolate zucchini bread for dessert.
And now the NSA has me on storage in a second talking about zucchini…
S.O.S. from MA @10
Think about how Andrew Patel — Padilla’s attorney –must feel these past five years. Talk about rolling the ball up the hill, only to have it roll back again, and again, and again.
Everythingseemssoneat @ 15
no they’re independent contractors hired through Musharaff of Pakistan; unfortunately, Mad Dictator Mushie may be about to have a comeuppance courtesy of his own people…
Whoa!
Since when has *that* been illegal?
Because, um, I hate to break it to everyone, but if *that* is illegal, then the entire fucking Bush Administration, Department of Defense, and Central Intelligence Agency are, all, um, how do you say, ah, yes…
GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY.
(and one for the road: guiiiiiiiiilty!)
Steve T. @ 11
we’ve got to fight the terrists aubergine so we don’t have to fight ‘em over here.
I really hope I am wrong about this but despite all reason and justice I predict he will be convicted. No one is going to set some one who the government says is a terrorist free. Remember that the only way witches could be acquitted is if they drowned. “We have met the enemy and he is us!”
I think Keith showed a picture of fat Osama tonight.
Lew — it’s not clear to me where the trial stands. Has the prosecution rested? Will the defense put on a case?
Lew Koch @ 19
positively sissyphean…
BTW, not to go OT, but if anyone has relatives or friends near the coastline in indonesia, they just had another quake and now a tsunami warning…
Lew, your work is so important. It so goes along with what we witnessed today with Monica. The Justice department turned upside down by this administration.
I hope Olbermann, Froomkin or Dionne gets a chance to get you on the record soon.
VictorLaszlo @ 7
Tonight’s “special comment” will be required viewing for school children for generations to come … if our constitution survives.
Rayne @ 18
worse that than that. “Chocolate Zucchini Bread” is code for a 5 megaton russian suitcase nuke…:>
Chris @21
Haven’t seen so many “guiltys” since Doonesbury was writing about Nixon.
punaise @ 22
Try to keep up, eh? We now call them “Freedom Ovoids.” So much for yer pun!! /snark
S.O.S. from MA @ 31
Try to keep up, eh? We now call them “Freedom Ovoids.” So much for your pun!! /snark
and with sarkozy in power in france, “french fries” are again acceptable ‘merikun fare…
Thanks, Lew – I appreciate the reference.
Do you think it was overkill, or underkill, or, like Goldilocks, juuuuust right?
Lew- thanks so much for your hard work on this.
I’m sure there are lots of people reading your post who are not making comments. A lot to absorb over the past few days.
If an attentive CIA agent was reviewing documents it seems that he would spot English handwriting fairly easily if all the other documents were signed with Persian based writing.
I wouldn’t rest my case on the assertation that the CIA signature find was fabricated. Especially since the CIA wouldn’t be stupid enough to present the Padilla signature without comparing it to other examples of Padilla’s handwriting/signature that are easily obtainable under our Patriot Act regime.
I’m sure the case is weak but not based on this information.
Since we were torturing captives I wouldn’t be surprised if somebody disclosed the location where we might find old paperwork of interest.
re: Instead those Federalist Society legal minds at Justice came up with fresh (er, make that stale) charges for Padilla:
Care to name any names?
Lew Koch @ 30
for those of us too young to get the reference:
Guilty! Guilty! Guilty!
This is only tangentially related but I wonder why we don’t hear more of the meme: These guys fucked up everything they touched so bad, why would you give them another chance at anything.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 32
U meant Snarkozy, dincha? :)
Scarecrow @ 25
The prosecution is still presenting its case and the defense continues to shatter it. That is not an early call. The prosecutors, who have had years and years to prepare, seem very uncertain about the viability of their case. Most of the reporters make the defense an integral part of their stories. The reporters also always note how many times the charges have changed. The press seems right on target (at least in this case.)
S.O.S. from MA @ 31
legume my ego… :~)
I don’t want to sound like a pedant here, but there ain’t no such language. It’s like saying
Perhaps you mean Pashtun?
S.O.S. from MA @ 39
U meant Snarkozy, dincha? :)
no, unfortunately that is his real name. the late night comics have been offering prayers of gratitude for weeks…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Sarkozy
Who did Gonzo put in charge of trial strategy development for DOJ in the Padilla trial–Monica Goodling?
Lew Koch @ 40
Thanks Lew. Really appreciate you tracking this and sharing your insights.
Yay! Lew and terrorist vegetables…
300,000 phone call intercepts? that’s a lotta wiretapping
Well, 3500 is a lot of zuchini – but was he really even talking about zuchini?
There have been all kind of discussions and posts and stories about the issues of translations. For example, the story from the GITMO interrogations of the approx 15 yo they were interrogating. They asked him where all he got cash and he listed place after place. SO they decided that, despite his age, he was a serious financial al-Qaeda cog. Until they figured out that there was a dialect problem: what meant cahs to their interrogator, meant tomatoes to their 15 yo interviewee.
I don’t think Padilla was a choir boy. Still, after 300,000 calls, you’d think they’d be able to crack the zuchini code. It also reminds you of the story about the guy under surveillance who was grabbed bc of chatter that he was going to wedding – which had been used before as a reference to a terrorist event. However, more than one cook (US Dept) was watching him and no one communicated among them and it turns out that at least one knew he actually was going to a real wedding. SO that surveillance effort tanked.
I’m all for getting the bad guys.
Just not so much for being the bad guys.
Really not so much for being stupid AND the bad guys.
Thanks for the coverage.
Everythingseemssoneat @ 24
too much zucchini with cheese?
I thought the vegetables of mass destruction were reserved for dkos on Sundays. I keep getting my websites mixed up!
Anyway, even if he is “freed” Padilla will never be free. It sounds like his personality has been all but destroyed by his abusive treatment and he will probably be pretty much a vegetable himself for the rest of his life.
So Condi Rice’s purchases of $5,000 worth of cucumbers counts as terrorism now?
wasn’t the Zucchini Atoll the site of some nuclear tests long ago?
O/T
When is the late night thread coming up?? I want to hear more response/discussion to the Legally Blonde IV show we saw today. I need smarter brains than mine to explain how all of this Abu is going to work given the wussiness the Dems are showing!
“Even if this conjecture is true, can the government prove zucchini translates to terrorist bombs? What vegetables are code for murder, kidnapping, and maiming?”
The velveeta loving American Public is voting for American Idol tonight…
I need some meatier matters. Anyone up for helping dispell my fears that the Dems are in Deep Doo Doo since being right doesn’t mean a damn in this court of (re) pulican opinion.
What can we do to make the public start paying attention? Obviously killing our children isn’t enough…
allan – Lew talked about the language issue in his last post – in case you missed it, here’s the link
Japanese Hentai Manga will never be the same after this.
Phule @ 50
Cucumis ferragomis
Lew Koch @ 30
My favorite Doonesbury/Watergate illustration is of the security guard calling his wife saying he’ll be home late, gotta check something out, and a doorknob and lock are covered in tape…
Thanks for the update, Lew. Sounds like some good defense lawyering going on for now…
Wrong Gender, Think Bikinis.
queenies daughter — I am so stealing your reference to the MG testimony as Legally Blonde IV. Except that maybe it should be Illegally Blonde, eh?
OT – raw story:
veritas10 @35
Please don’t misunderstand me(or perhaps I have to make myself clearer.) I don’t for a moment think Jose Padilla was without his fantasies. He is the height of grandiosity, a term the psychoanalyst Heinz Kohut used forthose whose fantasies have become vastly unreal. I think others, here and abroad, abused this part of his character.
realworld @ 23 says:
Actually, iirc, only one or two of the so-called terrorists charged by the gov’t since 9/11 have been convicted. John Walker Lindh took a plea and I think most of the so-called terrorist in Detroit, Buffalo and Florida have been acquited, charges dismissed or convicted of only a very minor charge while acquited of the more serious charges.
Phule @ 57
I could atoll you so.
Lew Koch @ 30
Ain’t it sweet!!! T. Tomorrow is having a similar field day!!! Soo… What’s next, Scotus, virtually has to recuse itself!!! Truly, What’s next??? :-(
allan@55
Cucumis sativus
Siun @ 53
Thanks! Had not seen that. Truly incredible.
35 – well, the fingerprint evidence was bizarre. They didn’t get around to even doing it until recently and then they found Padilla’s prints ont he front of the front page and back of the back page – like if you where handed something – and nowhere else.
SO they don’t look at prints on any of this stuff until years after they have it? Doesn’t sound like they’re trying very hard to track anyone down. Then when they do dust -who knows how many times Padilla might have been handed the document after they got it? But no internal prints on all the pages he filled out? Sure seems “off”
The more “off” part, imo, is that we even have a trial, though after a) an arrest warrant that was based on torture and b) the Comey presser where he told the country that they had done a thorough review and Padilla was a rabid threat to the nation and reciting all kinds of evidence (that they knew was either fibby or could never be used against him)to a lap doggy press corps.
fwiw
punise@62
Do not ask for who the bell tolls. It atolls for thee, not me.
Phule @ 64
Don’t mind me – I’m just ridiculing our Secretary of Shopping.
punaise @ 51
Groannnn… Man’s favorite form of attire, Atoll!!! ;)
Alfred Kelgarries @ 29
Oh CRAP. I made a mess of those last year. ‘Splains the dark sedans parked out in the street when I had the bread maker running…
5-Megaton Russian Suitcase WMD
(a.k.a. Quick Chocolate Zucchini Bread)
Ingredients:
2 cups Bisquick or similar baking mix
1/2 cup cocoa
1 1/2 cup zucchini, grated (1 medium)
1/2 cup brown sugar
1/4 cup white sugar
1/4 cup Vegetable Oil
3 Eggs
1 teaspoon Vanilla
1 teaspoons Cinnamon
1/2 cup Chopped Nuts (optional)
Directions:
Heat oven to 350 and Grease the bottom of 9×5×3 Loaf Pan Beat all ingredients in medium bowl with electric mixer at low speed for 30 seconds, scraping bowl constantly. Beat at medium speed for 1 minute, scraping bowl occasionally. Pour into pan.
Bake 50 to 55 minutes or until toothpick comes out clean. Cool 10 minutes.
Loosen sides of pan and remove and place on wire rack top side up. Cool completely for about 2 hours before slicing.
-OR- Make in your bread maker, following instructions for quick bread preparation (most makers call for moist ingredients first, followed by dry ingredients).
NOTE: Recommend sifting baking mix and cocoa together before mixing with other ingredients for best results
This is one of only ways I can get the kids to eat zucchini. [sigh] Zuke-lear Weapon on picky kids’ diets.
I must say, though, that $3500 is a lot of zucchini bread. Hmm.
Lew Koch @ 60
so you think Mr. Padilla “thought” he was a big-time terrorist, but really wasn’t? That they went on his “confessions” assuming the phsical evidence would stack up to support them? and when it didn’t they’d already hung so much of their careers on this that they had to come up with something? that MO certainly fits other prosecutions we’re recently learned about in england…
Rayne @ 70
have just printed out this recipe for my daughter. I’m going to start looking for bread pans shaped like MIRV’s to bake it in.. daughter says thanks, but that’ll she’ll leave out the plutonium because it tends to make the bread “too heavy”….
dakine01 @ 61 The May 2007 Esquire Magazine has a heartbreaking story by Tom Junod. It’s online
I sincerely hope that if I ever have my day in court, I’m facing this bunch of prosecutors across the aisle.
Its like watching a race to the bottom as to what charge they can’t make stick.
Rayne @ 70
Actual video of the effect of this recipe on an unsuspecting village.
What’s “vanilla” code for? I must say it makes all the difference to have the real thing.
Poor Padilla. Delusional before, completely over the edge now, and we’re no safer for it, only have now a dangerous proliferation of zucchini bread.
Mary @66
Friday’s column deals with James Comey.
Anyone else get an error message (HTTP Status 404) on Lew’s Christian Science Monitor story link?
Why am I so reminded of Doris Lessing and her Martha Quest Series.
La plus ca change…
allan_in_upstate @ 75
Are you insinuating my cooking is that bad?
Heh. Actually, there was the time I added chocolate chips to this recipe…sank to the bottom, scorched, rather odiferous. (Teenager loved it, though.)
Hey Rayne- guess you’re no longer worried about the USAtty story flying under the radar ;) I keep remembering your head’s up about this.
pow wow @ 78
Here’s the link. I thought I had it right in my piece. It seems too long for this box, but a Google with Christian Science Monitor Jose Padilla will take you to it.
pow wow @ 78
Try this link to the CSM story.
Thanks, Lew and Scarecrow.
Lew, thanks for your work.
As a bonus, now I know why food not bombs gets raided all the time.
Zucchinis
PS:
Though some may say lemons (or onions – blergh) in kerchiefs can help with tear gas,
the lemons and onions in convergence space kitchens REALLY are for cooking and salads.
Discussing the distinction is fruitful.
And – when discussed with the folks who wear guns to work – memorable.
PPS: Onions burn your skin. Same with vinegar – but more so. Lemon juice is better.
Lew- I had a question for you at #36. You’ve been so good about answering questions, I wondered if you missed it, or didn’t want to name names. Or, maybe it’s an obvious answer that any informed person should know…
Lew, are there any TradMed reporters covering this trial in Miami? I’m not seeing any stories but your bulletins here at FDL. I suppose the USA won’t hear anything until the big conviction — and if there is no conviction, the trial will just fade away?
Thank you so much for your reports.
Scarecrow @ 83
The link in the post is now fixed. Refresh.
Valley Girl — yeah, I was worried it would get buried. They own the media, they own law enforcement, they almost own the judiciary…if Congress were any weaker, it would have been a fait accompli.
Thank goodness for our few bright lights.
The bigger problem is the narrative; the average Joe Sixpack doesn’t yet understand it, in part because our culture has been so compromised by partisanship that they expect this stuff and shrug their shoulders. How nice to hear from looseheadprop that at least the legal community on both sides of the aisle are offended; likely why the Repugs were no shows at Comey’s hearing.
OT- TSF did you see this? WaPo chat summary at DWT from keninny
Zucchini must be Arabic, all or in part, for first class plane ticket to Miami, no kosher meal please.
Rayne @ 89
emptywheel is on this like a duck on a junebug: (yes i live in texas, why do you ask?)
http://thenexthurrah.typepad.c…..kicke.html
Valley Girl @ 36 and 86
Under the Freedom of Information Act I received the bio/vitas of the entire Office of Legal Counsel in the Bush administration. This is the place where the torture memos were first developed. Many members of the OLC did and do indeed belong to the Federalist Society. They may not play a personal role in the pursuit of Padilla but they have shaped the think of the Department of Justice. Sorry to have neglected the first @ 36.
I’m certainly prepared to believe that Padilla is a minor figure at best and probably mentally unstable even before his incarceration and bad treatment by the government.
On the other hand, that people who have undergone military training in Islamist camps in Afghanistan claim that jihad really means inner struggle is even more meaningless.
Dover Bitch @ 14
Is that by Kip Adotta?
Lew Koch @ 93
can you take a quick pass at mine @71?
TeddySanFran @87
Not aware of any TradMed folks at the trial
Lew Koch @ 93
Thanks Lew! And, for doing what reporters *should* be doing as a matter of course. Ah… a google task for me. Look up the members of the OLC… look up the members of the Federalist Society… compile…
larry birnbaum @ 94
As far as terrorist training goes (and I am by nop means equating the two) the United States Ranger training — some very serious training indeed — last almost a couple of years. Terrorist training
in Islamist camps in Afghanistan seem to be about six weeks. It’s sort of like on-the-job Darwinian
training, like the people who took flight training long enough to steer the plane.
punaise @ 51
Actually, it was Bikini. No zucchini at all.
Unless Rudy is wearing them.
Valley Girl @ 98
You won’t find them on Google. Their social security numbers,their personal data (address, phone etc.) have been redacted. You’ll have to file a Freedom of Information request.
Lew Koch @ 97
So it’s just you and Richey from the CSM?
Also, is the jury sequestered? (not that it matters much, if there’s so little coverage, I suppose)
Apologies if these have been covered already.
How not to run a justice system:
Who could blame him? That sort of incentive might just help a person exaggerate his value to the prosecution.
Oops… Unintended consequences of ignoring the likelihood of the (now-realized) Constitutional check on a reckless Executive by a still-conscientious Judicial Branch.
Doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in all the vaunted torture-for-intelligence results, does it?
[All excerpts are from Warren Richey’s linked CSM article.]
Lew Koch @ 73
Lew just went and read that article. Strange dude that zeke. I think I saw a headline on cnn.com about him (nuclear manager who claimed to be an assasin). Sounds like a definite wanna be bad guy.
TeddySanFran @ 103
Only Richey from the CSM. Curt Anderson of the AP Very good coverage from the Sun-Sentinal and the Los Angeles Times. The New York Times has done a few, very, very critical pieces (like getting the tape transcripts of Padilla’s seven calls — believe me I ate my heart out.) The jury is not sequestered. It would have been a burden on the jurors since the case is expected to run past the summer. But to quote Judge Cooke, the evidence against Padilla is very thin.
How can such a thin case possibly run past the summer? By showing films of OBL?
Lew! I think you are saying that there is no public list of those who work for OLC. Geez! Why am I surprised?
I just went to the doj/ olc site.
And, I got invited to participate in an online survey! Seriously!
text to part of the message–
~~Thank you for visiting U.S. Department of Justice!
You have been randomly selected to take part in a survey, presented by Foresee Results, to let us know what we are doing well and where we need to do better.
Once you leave this site, the survey will appear in this window. In the meantime, please ignore this window and continue browsing our site in the other window.~~~~
pow wow @ 104
That’s why I linked to Richey’s piece. It was just so damn solid and analytical. He’s one smart dude who obviously has done some serous research.
Valley Girl @ 108
valley girl, run a spyware check. i’m not kidding. DOJ and DEA sites routinely slip spyware in via fake “polls” and “free downloads”….they can track your entire web surfing activity afterwards, and use it to decide if you are suitably for inclusion on various TIA lists…
Valley Girl @ 108
If you think that was a random survey, you’re terribly mistaken. That was the NSA wanting just a tad more information about you.
oops I got moderated!
Valley Girl @ 108
Run a check on your computer for bad stuff. government web sites have been known to try to slip some in to visitors…
So, anyone, should I take the survey?
~~~~Thank you for visiting U.S. Department of Justice!
You have been randomly selected to take part in a survey, presented by Foresee Results, to let us know what we are doing well and where we need to do better.
Once you leave this site, the survey will appear in this window. In the meantime, please ignore this window and continue browsing our site in the other window.
Participation in this survey is completely voluntary. Your participation in and responses to this survey are confidential, and the survey does not collect personal information about you. Your responses will be sent to Foresee Results, whose privacy policy can be found at http://www.foreseeresults.com/Privacy.html . This survey does not use persistent cookies, but does use session cookies that are automatically deleted at the end of your session. The feedback you provide will help us enhance the Department of Justice site and serve you better in the future.
They said ‘zuchini’ was code for some terrorist stuff and that somehow gave them permission to literally turn the guy into a vegetable.
If they capture me I’m gonna tell them the secret code words are: Rich, Penthouse, Bentley and Girls. Let’s see ‘em work on that for a while!
Lew Koch @ 111
what Lew said. and more so.
Loo Hoo. @ 27
OT: Here’s a tidbit from the SJC’s agenday for tomorrow:
Senate Judiciary Committee
Senate Dirksen Office Building Room 226
Thursday, May 24, 2007 at 10:00 a.m.
I. Committee Authorization
Authorization of Subpoenas in Connection with Investigation into Replacement of U.S. Attorneys
I’ve got a 9:30 meeting so I’ll miss it but I wonder who they’re going to subpoena? Anyone know who’s on their list?
Valley Girl @ 113
my advice is: Don’t! see Lew at 111
allan_in_upstate @ 42
Had to look it up but for the record, according to the CIA factbook more Afghanis speak Persian.
Loo Hoo. @ 116
second that, big time.
Lew Koch @ 110
Lew!!! No, I am not quite that dumb!
But, it was quite a revelation to have that pop up. I am curious to see what questions are asked, but I suspect that I can’t get all of those unless I actually take the survey.
Siun @ 53
Wow! Should have read the earlier post first.
Oh great. Do you know how many times I’ve been to DOJ website. Never took a poll, though. I’m frightened by my government.
Alfred @117
It’s worse than your best nightmare. I believe privacy vanished about fifteen, maybe twenty years ago.
Any one have any idea how long this “random survey” has been going on?
And, if anyone wants to try the site now, are you also “randomly selected”?
How many U.S. citizens are currently being denied habeas? Abu was asked. He had never thought about it.
solai- same for me. Maybe it was because I was checking out the OLC.
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/
Valley Girl @ 128
No, thank you.
Lew Koch @ 111
This is truly scary.
Zucchini. $3500 of the kindest and skunkiest.
Mmm. That zucchini sure smell good. Yup. This ain’t no Mexican zucchini, I can tell you that. This has got to be hydroponic zucchini. Maybe some of that Linear G strain.
/funk is a joint rolled in toilet paper
/funk is chitlin foo young
You know what? This freeking sucks. Did you ever imagine that we would lose our constitutional rights and be afraid of what the govt might do next?
This used to be America, land of the free. WTF happened?
solai @ 125
That is a GREAT question. Seven years ago, after god knows how many Law & Order programs, you’d thought any half wit would know to ask to get lawyered up after their first “Hello, I’m with the…” But what has surprised me was that I think nowthere is a determined effort to undermine Miranda. See Gary L. Stuart’s “Miranda –The Story of America’s Right to Remain Silent. Published in 2004, I think the book may need updating.
Lew Koch @ 124
ECHELON? CARNIVORE? they were DERIVATIVE programs based on earlier work….
BTW, do you think Padilla was already delusional when he was picked up, or did that come afterward?
Valley Girl @ 125
no thanks!
Valley Girl @ 127
i didn’t get the survey
Back on topic…How many U.S. citizens are currently detained and being denied their constitutional rights?
spurious @ 119
But how many speak Moosewood ?
(Amazingly, not a single zucchini recipe in their online archive.)
Lew Koch @ 111
ding!
tw3k @ 134
***
Me, either. (Waaaahhh.)
solai @ 128
But geez, I wish some computer stealth person could go there and get the questions.
Of course, the fact that I’ve posted the link here has probably been noted, and they’re checking me out at this moment.
solai @ 136
About 298,000,000.
Valley Girl @ 113
Valley Girl, if that’s the way the survey is worded, they need serious help. “Where we need to do better” should read “Where we need to improve.”
Lew, i just want to thank you for your ongoing work.
Valley Girl @ 139
might be browser based, a lot of .gov stuff only works with IE.
Valley Girl @ 140
Three-term Senator defeated in re-election primary.
tw3k @ 135
Me either
Someone months ago was talking about these ID cards that they want to give to immigrants. The problem that he pointed out was that any US citizen can be asked for one. They could honestly claim that they’re born and raised US citizens. Nothing to stop the authorities from saying that they don’t believe that and off you go to a detention center. Imagine the power that will give the govt.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 132
Quoting from my Jan/Feb 2004 Bulletin of Atomic Scientists piece, Padilla as a 15-year-old kicked to death a man he had been robbing. He kicked him as he lay unconscious on the concrete. When asked why he did that by the police, he replied, “Because I felt like it.” This is a man does not understand the concept of delayed satisfaction. Padilla punched a policeman in a dispute over a donut. He was he did 303 days in the Broward County Jail in Florida for firing pistol shots at a motorist who had cut him off. This is a nasty, nasty young thug who would had he not converted been a lifetime crim. And that had its downside as well.
Valley Girl @ 128
Thanks anyway, I’ll pass… ;})
Lew Koch @ 147
okay, so if not delusional, certainly dysfunctional. ripe meat for jihadists, and BTW any evidence he was approached by the jihadists during his jail stay?
OK! I found a link! has the questions. But I haven’t read them yet. link
If anyone is willing to try the link, I’d like to know if it works for you.
Valley Girl @ 149
yeah, i can see it.
OT, sorry.
WTF is the deal with the yellow ties EVERYWHERE WE LOOK?
allan_in_upstate @ 137
Can’t get in! Too many of us peeking?
Alfred Kelgarries @ 148
I really don’t have any handle on life in prison, conversions etc. But the place is obviously ripe for plucking.
still not finished reading…. but this one… ARRRGHHHH
16: How likely are you to use this site as your primary resource in obtaining information about this agency?
CD @ 139
You’re not random enough.
Lew Koch @ 154
thanks. i am saving all your posts here, and presume you’ll favor us with a book once the whole travesty is finished. will look forward to it!
tw3k @ 151
Thanks! BTW, I use FireFox, not IE, so that’s not the issue with “random”
spurious @ 152
lol, now fdl can produce the slashdot effect!!!111
Alfred Kelgarries @ 157
A book? Yeah…I have been thinking about it. Now if there’s a book editor lurking….
where is TRex????? I want late night!!!
Lew Koch @ 160
you never know…:>
(peeking head from behind the curtain) TRex is working on Late Nite – there are flames coming from his claws.
Suzanne @ 163
ruh roh
Valley Girl @ 151
Looks harmless and in keeping with government regulations, this time ; )
“This survey does not use persistent cookies, but does use session cookies that are automatically deleted at the end of your session.”
Lew Koch @ 160
I wouldn’t be surprised. Wonder what how many lurkers there are for each poster (lurker factor)?
tw3k – well maybe not slashdot but we did drive KOs book to #1
FDL is some powerful stuff
Suzanne @ 164
hiya suzanne! Go read my new post??
He’s here!!
Alfred Kelgarries @ 110
Thanks! I missed that particular comment of yours earlier.
I will have to look into spyware. I tried to install something like that a few years ago, but some how it lead to weird computer problems, so I will have to do it with expert local advice.
He’s there, but I missed the zed.
SnarKassandra @ 162
Is there something wrong with this conversation?
Cozumel @ 165
except that they LIE LIKE A RUG. run appropriate sp*w*re checker afterwards, you’ll be amazed at what you find…
Lew Koch @ 132
Bless you, Lew.
Harvard law grad and former Federal Prison inmate Katya Komisaruk’s Beat The Heat is a great “user’s guide”.
[”know” summary kjm. book info AK press.]
Valley Girl @ 172
Yes, I don’t know enough about the topic.
spurious – we’ve had about 10,000 visitors since Lew’s post went up … so a factor of hmmmmm….58 readers to 1 commenter *if* commenters only commented once (which we never do)
Siun @ 166
:)
I went fishing on a whim found this stuff the other day…google ‘harvard law school federalist society’ (Also Yale law school came up..I haven’t looked there, though…)
Put this in an overnight thread (copied/pasted from where I had posted it elsewhere…I’m an addict on DoJ/USA/Gonzo…and connections to FedSoc. (Copied/pasted again..links may be hinky…but I looked one up and guess where she works?
—————-
How do ya like dem apples?
Will Goodling Hunt? (not up to punaise’s quality…but that’s what I got.)
tw3k @ 159
Bigger and bigger! It’s because here everybody checks out all the links.
Kirk – precisely right!
but remember that they do not have to mirandize you *if* they do not question you …
we had many unpleasant moments back in the days when I did legal support for civil disobedience with folks who were simply busted for sitting in, etc and were not mirandized … because they were not questioned.
learn your rights … aclu has great info, see the link Kirk sent, but learn your rights … and if someone official knocks on the door and “just wants to talk” say no until you have a lawyer there!
So I guess the NSA is now checking out all of my comments at FDL…
Alfred Kelgarries @ 174
I can’t find the story but not all spyware is blocked or deletable or detectable. There was a big ‘to do’ about it a couple of years ago I think with Lavasoft and others. I can’t remember the reason why but Lavasoft and others capitulated
FYI,
new thread.
Siun @ 176
Wow. Is that 10,000 people, or hits measured some other way? The result of having really good people like Lew on! (Does make one think about minding ones language!)
kirk murphy @ 175
Wow. Beat The Heat. Never knew of it. Thanks.
BTW, I did not take the survey.
last bit:
“Thank you for your time in completing this survey. Your input is very valuable and will be taken into consideration.”
Spurious – 10,000 unique visitors
Lew Koch @ 30
(Megaphone Mark)SLACKERMEYER!!!
EDP She is a delight!
I tell you, they were just whacked after watching too many VeggieTales!
oops. wrote that on her computer. moving back across the room now. red face.
Siun @ 186
I’m blown away. I was thinking a few hundred!
Siun @ 181
Absolutely right. When they knock at the door and very pleasantly introduce themselves and ask if they could come in for a moment and talk, the answer is “No.” If you want, you can step OUT and see what they want. But the moment they are inside, they can look around and FIND WHAT THEY WANT. No warrent, no lookie.
Siun @ 188
I’ve got the ’site meter’ on my business web site. I don’t see a ‘unique visitors’ thing!? Where is that? ; )
Lew Koch @ 192
Making a mental note. Who would have thought that one would need to know something like that?
Valley Girl @ 36
Our diverse threads converge: What with Monica replacing seasoned professionals with political cronies who are still wet behind the ears, why should we expect them to conduct a competent trial?
Besides, their opportunity to present a credible case has been compromised by handlers who have obtained “evidence” by such unsavory means that much of it can’t be presented in court, right? And in the course of obtaining that evidence, they turned Padilla into a vegetable. Ooops! Is it cruel and unusual punishment if it is dished out before the trial?
Oh, sorry, I meant to say IIRC. I look forward to reading more Lewis and getting my facts straight.
Bob in HI
That prison photo never ceases to amaze me.
Look at the security detail around this blinded, shackled kid. Who the hell is this guy, Magneto?
veritas101 @ 35
We have a president with a staff stupid enough to try passing off forged, and poorly at that, documents intimating that Hussein wanted to get uranium from another nation which the idiot then used as justification for an illegal invasion of another country.
We have a CIA which actually planted forged, and, again, poorly at that, documents in a safe trying to pin the JFK assassination on Cuba.
You really think some dickwad trying to score points with this criminal administration wouldn’t stoop to forging something or lying about its contents if it served dear leader’s agenda?
_______________
Lew, thanks for all the hard work. You know how I feel about what’s been done to Padilla and what continues to be done to the other mind control experiment subjects in Gitmo and our various gulags.
Lew Koch @ 148
I don’t think that Padilla’s life previous to this is that easy to characterize or sum up in one word. Deborah Sontag’s 2004 NYT article. Note the slightly differnet version of events in the dispute with the other motorist. In which the other driver followed him to a gas station and Padilla fired shots into the air and not at the other motorist. And the 10 years of no jail time previous to the arrest. And the conversion –which seems to have started way after he got out of jail. It seems his boss was the mentor.