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(Please welcome author and Air America radio host Laura Flanders who is here to discuss her new book, Blue Grit: True Democrats Take Back Politics From the Politicans — JH)
Laura Flanders gets it. And by that I don't mean in a "yeah, I think Bush sucks but don't we all" kind of way — rather, in her new book she displays a deep and penetrating understanding of the challenges that face progressives these days, and the systemic problems within the Democratic party that keep it from being responsive to those challenges.
Harkening back to the absurd headlines about 2006 victories when Rahm Emmanuel was credited with "remaking the Democratic party in his own image," she notes that this "training of public attention upwards" when it comes to election analysis ignores the 3.5 million people on MoveOn's mailing list, thousands of small contributors, hundreds of DNC staffers, grassroots activists, unions and volunteer vote protectors who all worked to help the Democrats take back congress.
She says:
It's time for a definition of terms. This book advises party Democrats to develop, not ditch, their base, by which I mean those demographic groups that vote disproportionately blue (the Democrats' color on those TV maps on eleciotn night). That includes members of trade unions, African Americans, Native Americans, Latinos, young voters (in 2006, a startling 70% of Hispanic voters voted Democratic), unmarried women (66 percent voted blue in 2006), religious minorities and city dwellers.
Couldn't agree more. As Tom Shaller's analysis makes clear, there is no "center" any more, and the Republicans know it — witness one white man after another competing to be more torture lovin', more war mongering and more ruthlessly authoritarian than the next at the GOP debates, despite the fact that fewer and fewer people want to identify as Republicans and George Bush is outrageously unpopular. It's the Democrats who are slow to catch up, who want to turn the party's identity into a lukewarm bowl of oatmeal by handing it over to the Blue Dogs and don't realize their strength lies in those who are wiling to put boots on the ground and want their party to stand for something. As Laura says:
The problems with see-no-people politics aren't only political, they're also pragmatic. Under the leadership of the centrist wing of the Democratic Party (those aligned with the neoliberal Democratic Leadership Council and Bill Clinton), the party bottled up money and power and elecision-making in Washington, and chased big donations and centrist voters, leaving the majority of state party organizations to stumble along or rot. What they built is a Penthouse Party: all top-floor suites, no load-bearing walls, no foundations, no functioning stairway to the street.
Blue Grit is an extraordinary chronicle of people who are utterly disinterested in the Blue Dog vision of a corporatized, value free, "meet the new boss" Democratic party. Her section on choice, and the Democratic "big tenters" willing to barter it away, made me want to stand up and cheer:
The Democrats believe it's only pragmatic to talk about abortion as tragic and rare; in South Dakota, they call it "respecting" South Dakotans' views. But paying all that respect to those who would criminalize abortion is the opposite of standing up for women, their doctors and their advocates. As McGovern's research shows, attitudes toward abortion spill over onto those who conduct the procedure, endangering doctors, isolating those who depend them, and demonizing the women they serve. Reaching out to the "profile" movement, Democrats are weakening their own.
As I've said before, I'm sure that Republicans are much more anxious to embrace a future that depends on pandering to white men than the Democrats are to envision one that doesn't. As Schaller says, the 2006 Democratic victories "were fueled by votes from their base: union families and households, women, nonwhite voters and younger voters." Laura's book is an amazing, insightful testament to those people and their stories. I highly recommend it, it's extremely well-written and perceptive.
Please welcome her to the Book Salon.
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Hi Laura, and welcome to the FDL book salon!
YA! Laura Flanders!! Love your radio program!
Welcome, Laura, it’s really wonderful to have you here today, and it was great to meet you yesterday.
For all commenters: Please stay on topic during book salon. If you want to go OT, feel free to do it in the previous thread.
Laura, I was inspired by your book–but I have a (possibly tough) question for you. You chronicle at length the successes that progressive Democrats have had in some unlikely places like Utah and Mississippi. Yet there seems to be some kind barrier that prevents breakthroughs in those places into the U.S. House and Senate (with the exception of Montana) and the Presidential contests. Do you see such a barrier in those places, and if so, what does it consist of, and how can we surmount it?
THANK YOU JANE
For the welcome and the enthusiasm about the book. I’m excited to be here at FDL. You are Blue Gritters through and through. By which I mean- you’ve got the mettle to make things happen. Blue Gritters are also like gravel in the shoe of the establishment. You discomfort the bigwigs.
Come on by, folks! Let’s talk.
Welcome Laura!
Glad you could join us.
Hi Laura
Would you speak about the importance of finding people to nominate for office?
Somewhere out there are the future Webbs, Testers, but we have to ASK them to run.
Laura and I met yesterday at a Media Consortium panel in New York. I have to say, Laura, those things sometimes depress me. As hopeful as people are, as you note in your book, there is a real problem with progressive infrastructure and the lack of funding.
You say in your book:
I know it’s been said that left-leaning funders are loath to fund political action, while those on the right certainly are not. How much of that do you think it attributable to the fact that this is a serious threat to Democrats?
James F. Trumm @ 5
Good question James. Utah slapped me upside the head. The big lesson from the place was – don’t write anyone off. Progressives in Utah can’t, and don’t, and they’ve scored some surprising wins – even recently, like stopping that pseudo nuclear Divine Strake test.
Yet your question’s on target. When Rocky Anderson lost his bid for Congress the party scoffed — see, a lefty can’t win. He says he’d have had a better chance if the party had helped, rather than hindered his run. They didn’t give him a penny and wouldn’t mention him in party lit. It’s an open question I think. In NV and MT we’ve seen statewide victories but not presidential ones yet. The folks there say it’s a matter of candidates talking to local issues. On the other hand, our MT winners keep pretty darn quiet about the fact that they’re Democrats — as FDL has been first to point out.
Laura,
The Native American vote is unfortunately seen as being attached to cas*no $$’s. Many politicians pay attenion to gaming tribes but few to tribes with miimal resources. At the sametime those tribes without resources – energy, water, etc…, don’t feel the need to get involved because of past issues. How do we get the Democratic Party off its rear and engaged in Indian Country? You have to do that to bring in tribal votes and in places like South Dakota that does matter.
So you see it primarily as a question of devoting more party resources to those contests?
Hi Laura-great to have you here at FDL.
What does it take, in your view, to motivate the unmarried women to vote and how can the netroots help?
Hey, everybody, hey Laura!
I just wanted to call everyone’s attention to Ms. Flanders completely sinking Lou Dobbs’s battleship on CNN the other day. Nice work. I understand there was some post-show fallout. Would the estimable Ms. Flanders care to comment?
I was going to write about this incident tonight for Late Nite so anything you’d like to add, Laura, I would welcome with open claws.
James F. Trumm @ 12
I think it’s also a matter of getting rid of the DINOs in power in places like Kentucky, as was covered in yesterday’s discussions.
And thanks for your work and efforts Ms Flanders.
Hi Laura:
I haven’t read the book yet, so I would love to know how to address those who want to make abortion the primary issue.
Do we say “Sorry, the majority of Americans don’t agree with you” and quickly move on, or…?
Arizona will now have the Congressional District 1 race wide open. Renzi will not be there after this investigation throws his butt into Republican retirement hotel. We need mo’money in a district that is about half the state of Arizona geographically. I agree with Jane @ 9 that the lack of constant resources hurts us everytime in races like this.
Jane Hamsher @ 10
I’m afraid I’m with Paget. There’s simply NOTHING FOR IT folks: we on the left have got to fund ourselves differently from the right.
Sure, there are liberal foundations that keep many important projects ticking over and maintain critical services in an era of slashed safety nets. But when it comes to making real, political change, like changing our electoral system to cut corporate contributors out — or changing our taxation system, or – heavens – ending our for-profit health system — the left can’t honestly believe that profit-financed philanthropy will help them do it. It’s crazy that the first thing every ostensibly radical group does is apply to the government (THE IRS) for “approval” to operate as a non-profit. It’s a leash. Unions- and some media – have the right approach: we have to be independent from our own membership contributions. Plus, that means we’d have to serve our members.
Welcome, Laura and thanks for joining us — if you could change one policy position of the Democratic leadership, what would it be? What do you think would have the most beneficial impact?
James F. Trumm @ 4
Having not yet read the book, I’m intrigued by your question. I’m in Idaho and in this last mid-term election, Democrats did unusually well in traditional Republican outposts though not winning. In the 1980’s there was a huge push to flatly outlaw abortion here. We went house to house to get signatures to place a referendum on the ballot for voters. What I found was the number of Republicans who were not necessarily pro-choice or even pro-abortion but anti-government imposition into personal/private matters.
Yard Signs For Sale
In the book you relate the frustration of supporters who couldn’t get yardsigns for Kerry. You then go on to list all the DIY ways voters can create there own political media.
Are there any changes you see recently the Dems are going to get serious in matching the size of the Republican’s “megaphone”? Or will we see more independently produced messages from voters?
TRex @ 14
Nicely done, and cheers Laura. Thanks as well for having Paul Sullivan of Veterans for Common Sense on your program last night. And absolutely love the term Blue Gritters.
TRex @ 14
I just watched that; thanks for the link. Laura, how do you keep from lunging across the table and smacking guys like that upside the head?
“It’s the Democrats who are slow to catch up, who want to turn the party’s identity into a lukewarm bowl of oatmeal by handing it over to the Blue Dogs and don’t realize their strength lies in those who are wiling to put boots on the ground and want their party to stand for something.”
In light of this do I rightly, or wrongly assume that Senator Clinton and the DLC are oatmeal cookers?
Laura Flanders @ 18
Yep, it’s something we’re coming up against as well, a funding model that doesn’t depend on a Richard Mellon Scaife of the left suddenly appearing. For a whole lot of reasons that model won’t work on the left, so it’s a matter of looking for a new model to keep things afloat. I’m keenly aware there is only so long we can ask people in the blogosphere (and esp. here at FDL) to do this kind of day-in, day-out work for the love of it. They shouldn’t have to.
That’s one of the reasons MoveOn is so inspirational. They’ve managed to stay really independent and progressive as well as responsive to their donor base. I think there is a lot to be learned from their experience.
James F. Trumm @ 13
Not exactly. At the level of the presidential races, what I learned in Nevada was that while everyone in the state was talking about raising minimum wages — and the powerhouse unions were running all-out on that ballot initiative — the Kerry/Edwards campaign came in talking about Yucca Mountain. Fine issue, but everyone in NV made their mind up about it years ago. Activists (in the book) told me it was “like pulling teeth” to get the K/E campaign even to talk about it. Plus, by the time the campaign rolled into town, in August, the Bush team had been advertising for months on Spanish speaking radio, and the word on the street was the Democratic candidates didn’t care about latinos. My point: yes, more party $ needs to go into local infrastucture, then the national campaigns need to take the lead from the locals, not the other way around.
Well, the creepy thing about it was that he managed to rope the rest of the all-male panel in with him. As soon as Laura started talking about immigrants as human beings, they all groaned and moved to “burn-the-witch” mode because she dared to call them out on their hypocrisy.
Why is it that to posit that these are people with lives and families and feelings is somehow dirty pool in these men’s discussions?
thank you Laura
and welcome to the Lake!
unfortunately mr. cbl is making me go out – can’t wait to read y’all later
pssst Scarecrow – left you note downstairs
Nice intro, Jane, and welcome, Laura.
I’m especially encouraged by your book because it recognizes an essential aspect of progressive politics I’ve been harping on for some time — namely, the abandonment of the Democratic Party’s grassroots, especially its rural roots, and the role that played in its decline, and now its revival.
A lot of this has simply to do with standing up to the bully boys who have taken over the GOP. There are too many Democrats who think they still get to set the rules, and they somehow imagine it’s all still Marquess of Queensbury competing with the Duke of York, and the reality is that they’re up against a bunch of ruthless thugs who’ve mastered the dark art of Newspeak.
I thought you did a nice job of standing up to them yourself recently when you called out Lou Dobbs on the ugly “illegal aliens” pejorative, BTW. So I blogged about that last night.
Hi Laura,
I’ve listened to your show since the beginning, and I’m sad I won’t be able to any longer and pretty miffed at AAR. I feel too often that I’m an armchair progressive and what I really liked about your show is that I always felt motivated and inspired and often got ideas of practical things to do. I feel lots of outrage and have lots of energy, but I just don’t know where/how to direct it.
Ilona Meagher @ 22
BTW, we had Laura on early today because the regular book salon time conflicts with her radio show. We have a fabulous double header and Taylor is hosting Ilona’s book Moving a Nation to Care: Posttraumatic Stress Disorder and America’s Returning Troops at our regular 2pm PT time. Please stick around!
TRex @ 15
Oops — I meant to say: he flipped. It was as if no one had ever challenged him on the use of the word “alien” before. He followed me into the make up room berating me, “How dare you…” then down the hall and to the elevator. His point: it’s a government term. My point. It’s dehumanizing no matter what. Being a government term doesn’t make it better. It was dehumanizing vs. Germans and Italians too and he has a megaphone he’s using to beat immigrants with. He wouldn’t give way, but neither would I. In the end to his credit, when I said “i guess i won’t be back any time soon” he invited me right back, which he did.
Laura Flanders @ 26
Given the portrait you paint of those committed locals, that sounds like a GREAT idea.
Hi Laura
I’m the guy who pimped your interview with Fisk some time ago. I’m complaining to airamerica for cutting one of their two shows that focus on us plain folks in the hinterlands. Sat. you asked for good stories. We just recently got a “peanut whistle” progressive radio station here in Aberdeen. Hope you, your work do well.
dan stabel
Mr. Niewart! Always an honor and a pleasure.
I was on Dave Goodstein’s show on KIRO-am in Seattle last night and we were pointing his listeners to your blog.
It’s always good to see you at the Lake.
Laura Flanders @ 26 says:
How about we tell the “national campaigns,” whether the DLC, Rahm, whomever, that they’re managing the campaigns just like Bush has managed his invasions, by IGNORING the opinions of those who actually know what’s going on.
Maybe by comparing their idiotic actions to the Chimpenfuhrer’s actions, it would work like the ol’ two-by-four upside the head of the mule.
Word choice seems most important. Take, for example, this latest under-discussion no-confidence vote of the attorney general.
Immediately, the Republicans have labeled it a “politcal stunt.” We’ll hear that term repeatedly, which accomplishes the following: Those only paying half-attention have a label for it and an opinion of it, regardless of the facts; in addition, the label reflects poorly on those who disagree with the administration. This has been their M.O. for six years-plus. Stick a degrading label on it; use it over and over: “artificial time tables,” “micro-managing” are current labels that come to mind.
The Democrats would do well, it seems, to capitalize on this. Political stunt? Political stunt with truth on its side. We’ll call it Political truth.
I’d take every one of their charges, bring it around to include the word “truth” and serve it right back at them.
In an all-too-imperfect world, not all are well read, not all are well informed. All, though, have an opinion.
David Neiwert @ 29
Wow, that’s an amazing clip. That was fabulous, Laura. You were awesome. If anyone hasn’t seen it, click through.
Did he really follow you into the dressing room hollering at you?
Oht…left off my question – when in places considered ‘republican strongholds’ is this the kind of thinking Laura ran into (if actually physically in those locales) when dealing with places like UT, NV, MT, etc.?
Other Pat @ 37
The Dems still need to do a better job of framing issues. Cf. George Lakoff.
On abortion…
You should all talk to Lynn Paltrow of National Pregnant Women’s Advocates about this stuff sometime. She’s been a stupendous guest on my (sniff sniff, soon to RIP) show on Air America.
On the Carhart case, for example, she says the point is – every pregnant woman now faces intervention by the courts. If she chooses a c-section or refuses one, if she chooses homebirth or midwife, you name it. The point isn’t to down play the importance of legal available abortion, it’s to draw more people to see the implications of criminalizing women’s choices. Talking about the “tragedy” of abortion does neither. Abortion’s too rare already. If women could get safe, legal early abortions, you wouldn’t have these ghastly late-term stories in any case.
James F. Trumm @ 40
They absolutely do – it’s maddening.
I watched that clip, bearded the lion in his den! Poor Lou, ego shattered quickly!
Laura Flanders @ 41
Thanks, Laura, well said. I may use that quote for my blog. it’s so concise.
Wow Laura! It is great to have you here with us at the Lake … and Blue Grit is precisely what’s needed.
We’re so often afraid to do what you did with Dobbs – stand up and speak clear – so Bravo! (and it’s great to know that it leads to another invite – see what happens when you do show ‘Grit!’)
TRex @ 35
Hey TRex-It’s Goldstein not Goodstein.
Sorry I missed your appearance-I stream Goldy’s show when I can. A good example of local progressive radio.
Perhaps Laura has some thoughts about how the local blogs fit into the “Blue Grit” picture?
Laura – I often wonder, is the problem on our side the lack of good framing as James is pointing to – or the lack of commitment to real progressive values themselves?
The two can look so similar and I go back and forth on that – would love to know what you think.
Laura 10–
Laura you spoke about not funding progressives like Rocky Anderson. Well, in Michigan 09, the club for Growth sponsored candidate, extreme wrongie Tim Walberg ran against Democratic progressive underdog candidate Sharon Renier.
Lenard Smagolski (spelling?) Jackson County Democratic Party Chairperson and the DCCC DID NOT fund her candidacy at all. They made no calls on her behalf. They had no signs.
They did nothing at all. Sharon Renier lost by just under 10,000 votes. She could have won had she had any help from that county. Also, Cheney popped in just over the county line and fundraised 2500/ person lunches for Walberg while Renier went across the county earning a donation of %5 per person.
This district is said to be a ‘top tier’ in 08. And Smagalski is telling candidates to soak up at least major donations from now until the end of the November election.
Now, if it’s all about the money, then just where is a honest candidate suppose to get donations and not be indepted to those who donated?
And this district is a prime example of old-time DCCC politics and oldtime creeps in charge of the organization while the underdog and the ‘netroots’ candidate is fighting both the Repubican and the corrupt system.
What can we do?
Chris 21
Chris you spoke about the inability to get Kerry yard signs in 04. My understanding was that was a huge problem. So we had neighborhood parties. We had the kids make unofficial yard signs.
I still have a homemade sign in my yard. (Actually it was originally made for freeway blogging. It reads, (edited 3 times. I guess Bush and truth won’t show up in the same sentence. It should read (arrow to the right BUSH…. then below it…arrow to the left TRUTH…showing visually that Bush and Truth are opposite directions)
“Bush ————->>>>>
< <<<<<—————-Truth"</p>
…
Duh.
Thanks for the correction.
We had a blast. I work in radio, but I’ve never gotten to just freely hold forth for an hour like that. It was really kind of exhilarating. We had great callers, too.
Jane Hamsher @ 26
This is really the HUGE challenge — and it speaks to the question about movement media too. There is a legislative front to the fight: we simply HAVE to have government funding and legal protection for non-profit media — net neutrality, public service space on satellite and digital spectrum have to be fought for. Then we have to fight for appropriations that are self-sustaining (from taxes on advertising on commercial media perhaps?) rather than at the whim of right wingers in Congress.
But the structural stuff aside, how do we keep our indep media alive? Air America’s shown that liberals want media but aren’t willing to invest in it (no tax-deduction.) Public and community radio — how many of us actually pledge? Do people remember to buy books through FDL if they’re using Amazon? etc etc.
Ahem.
Please contribute to your local NPR and PRI outlets.
Laura, PRI is still going to carry your show, aren’t they?
Is your show really going to be off Air America?
Actually we have people buy books through Amazon. In addition to getting $$ back it also helps authors get their Amazon book sales up which helps them onto the NYT best seller lists (which in turn helps sales, etc.)
There is a progressive book club starting up and hopefully we’ll be working to support them and urge people to buy through them but for the time being Amazon, though not a superb choice, seems to be the best one we have.
silence is complicity @ 49
Lots to talk about here, of course, I wish I could type faster. I was heartsick over Cegelis, as were you all I bet. Good news is- as in Pittsburgh last week (on the show last night) grassroots groups like the League of Young Voters — are putting up progressive, locally based primary candidates and winning, doing lots of footwork. It can’t be top down – candidates selected by outsiders. Has to be bottom up. Then we have to support those candidates once they’re in some stinking office. (Many talked to me about being treated like the enemy by their friends as soon as they were on the other side of the fence.) Sad news is, the League just lost 1/3 of its budget — cut off by one of hte big supposedly progressive new Democraticg funding consortiums you hear so much about. No reason for it. Disaster for them. Back to the funding question.
So much to say, so little time. Check out indyvoter.org.
It’s ok to buy through Amazon, but click through from FDL or another site you like… that’s my point. That way you get a little cut, right?
silence is complicity @ 48
Exactly what happened here in Idaho, & now Bill Sali is in the House rather than Grant (who lost by some 11500 votes), and it IS THE reason Rahm Emanuel’s organization didn’t get a cent from me and many others ‘like me.’ Bill Sali is a freakin’ NUT.
The live show, three hours on the weekends, has been ended by Air America. We’ll still have a show one hour on Sundays at 1 pm, to platform the best of what’s in the Nation magazine that week.
YES the show will still be carried on non-commercial stations. Available free, sans ads.
Laura Flanders @ 56
Not the original topic to be sure, but the “new Air America” really seems to be losing its way.
Sad to see your time cut down, glad you still have some.
Laura Flanders @ 56
Might we help them change their minds?
Just watched the terrific clip. While denying the impact of his own language, Lou also let his other guests chime in on his criticism. I always find it extraordinary that the men who host and appear on these programs find it acceptable to talk over, belittle, and gang up on women.
Your statements were absolutely correct about Lou Dobbs’ language used to demean and dehumanize the families at the May First demonstrations, Ms. Flanders. However, it sure seemed to me that the men were all primed to jump you regardless of what you said.
Why have producers of these programs decided that good teevee requires male commentators to talk over, interrupt and scoff at the commentation presented by women?
Siun @ 48
We hear a lot about framing. I write a good bit about it in Blue Grit. We need to talk more about ORGANIZING. A brilliant message is useless if it has no way to get out.
TeddySanFran @ 61
EXCELLENT friggin question. And often the producers are women.I fear it’s an age-old way of proving to higher ups that you’re safe, you’re not a scary feminist.
Laura Flanders @ 54
Yep, that’s where the links in the left hand column will take you.
Laura Flanders @ 62
That Dobbs clip with all the men patronizingly and smugly laughing and talking over you is infuriating. Your composure was exemplary.
Jane Hamsher @ 64
EXACTLY my point. BUY YOUR BOOKS HERE!
Answer my questions and I’ll buy two books.
Hi Laura!
Oh my yes, yard signs and even bumper stickers were so hard to get here in Ohio.
I asked a Kerry staffer on the phone if she didn’t realize how much free advertising bumper stickers would give the candidate. Penny wise, pound foolish.
Don’t give him that much credit. His following you down the hall to berate you is geuinely creepy. These characters truly believe their anal excretions give no olifactory offense. When you go on next time give him no quarter.
Am I right Spudboy?
Wordsmith @ 67
Dang, well… YES in so-called “red” states — South Dakota for example, Native Americans, (for example) responded well to a message on abortion that talked about government intervention in their lives and way of life. Yet most of the pro-choice organizers wrote the reservations off — didn’t know enuf about them or enough locals… Back to the point of the book. Listen, don’t lecture, to the base.
On Rahm — we’ve got a fight on our hands. Not enough analysis of ‘06 left people giving too much credit to the top. What was Dean and DNC’s role? It deserves a much closer look. Beyond that, the 50 state strategy is just a start. Having hired staff, what is the state party’s relationship with local, organic groups. Is it itself organic? 20 years from now will we see a process that produces different candidates for national office or do we need to build something else?
Wordsmith — Can I mark you down for two books, bought through the FDL site? :)
This site and other progressive blogs raised a fair bit of $$’s for the 2006 elections and scored more than a few hits. Some of the folks who lost like Charlie Brown in California and Victoria Wulsin in Ohio are coming back again for repeat runs and are starting their fund raising much earlier. This should help them greatly in their chances for 2008. The whole Act Blue fundraising should have more available because it has started fundraising and support earlier.
Laura Flanders @ 69
What do you think about that new book that seems to credit Rahm singlehandedly for 2006?
I’m going to buy Blue Grit from the FDL website as soon as the salon is done.
Unfortunaltely, it looks like Laura is leaving or being forced out of her afternoon show on Air America. Along with the insertion of jock Lionel in the morning for my hero Sam Seder, AA is becoming increasingly irrelevant to my political interests.
It’s too bad too, because AA was the most important place on my blogosphere to find out the truth when it first started up…
Laura Flanders @ 69
Paul Lukasiak did a great deconstruction of the Rahm self-mythologizing over at DownWithTyranny. It’s a terrific analysis that supports everything you’re saying.
On the question about framing vs. issues. I write, it’s not the Democratic party’s frame that has to change, it’s what’s IN the frame. As I traveled to research the book (and yes, I was physically in those places. Loved it) I found issues riling people up, and bringing them together that never or rarely pass the lips of national candidates — things like sentencing reform for drug addicts, and predatory lending, and biofuels. Stuff that’s considered too “out there” for national debate IS the stuff of local debate. If Mormon dads can talk about ending the boondoggle war on drugs, we can all talk about it.. and do more than talk. We have to. People can smell a frame think-tanked in Washington, surrounding nothing. All that talk about “Democratic values” means precious little to most folks I met.
TeddySanFran @ 60
Even from the opening shot. Compositionally, his female co-host is rendered small in scale to the mighty luo.
Jane Hamsher @ 74
Paul Lukasiak did a great deconstruction of the Rahm self-mythologizing over at DownWithTyranny. It’s a terrific analysis that supports everything you’re saying.
I’ll check it out. One of the challenges for the blogosphere is getting the debate off the blog-sites and into the national debate. It’d be interesting to see which stuff makes the leap and which doesn’t. That’ll be key in ‘08.
Laura Flanders @ 70
Going there now, Ms Smartypants!
I just emailed one of our local bloggers who worked on Grant’s campaign, and another who worked on Grady’s (governor) – which was actually harder fought than Repubs wanted. Dean came a couple of times. I went to a dinner where he was our guest. I donated to help Dean’s strategy. And what’s even crazier, I donated money to campaigns like Vic Wulsin (OH), Jon Tester (MT), Jim Webb (VA)….as well as my own state’s candidates. I spend just about every dime I make on living so I’m not one who easily parts with money.
Yes – SD & the issue of the tribes….. similar here though not as stupidly.
Laura Flanders @ 75
I was very impressed with that. Yes you really DID travel around talking to people and taking a close look at what people are doing on the ground. The depth it brings to the book is wonderful. Again, I can’t recommend the book highly enough.
Laura Flanders @ 77
Good point. How can liberal bloggers make that leap?
We can but Timmeh won’t. And neither will anyone else in the “Mainstream.” That’s where “framing” comes inot the picture. You’ve GOT to force them off their game.
lilybelle @ 73
I’ve been offering to debate the “Thumping” guy with the Rahm book, but no pick up yet. I’ve been trying to get on Bill Maher’s show too, to no avail just yet. It’s a mysterious media world out there.
May I just say what fun this is? You FDLers are great.
Oh yeah! And we worked for MoveOn.org as volunteers. I’ll donate time and money any time with them.
The “Thumping” guy wouldn’t be on here either. And I know it’s tough to crack the shows like Maher (we couldn’t do it with Marcy), but you’re really good, I hope you keep on it because we need you there.
Laura Flanders @ 83
Aw. We like you, too!
You should do a column with us, if I may be so bold. I bet Jane would back me up on that.
Whether it’s Bill Maher or Bill Moyers, please let those of us on your RadioNation mailing list when you’re scheduled to appear.
p.s. Just purchased 2 more copies of Blue Grit as they make a great gift! :)
AZ Matt @ 71
Hard work and near-success in some other districts (Musgrave and Hastert, for example) has brought the DCCC and GOP-lite candidates sniffing around. Seems hardly fair that true grassroots progressives — who got no help in their first race against truly odious GOPers — now have also to worry about a corporatist-Dem to primary their well-deserved second run.
On another subject, but on-topic, Laura — do you know if the DeeCee Democrats have noticed the polls that show the success of directly challenging BushCo? Accommodationist language when dealing with a President who’s sinking to 1-in-4 support seems absurd. Why do our Senate and House leaders buy into the “support-the-troops” meme about ending this war, for instance? It’s an inside-the-Beltway holdover from the seventies that America’s moved away from. Our leaders need to speak more authentically while better aligned with what America wants.
Jane Hamsher @ 85
Talk shows, even those that lean left, seem to have pretty schizophrenic casting rules. And Maher is really pretty quixotic.
But I’ll bet Colbert would take Laura on.
Laura Flanders @ 75
I’m in a place that’s heavily populated with those who are LDS (Mormon) and evangelical. They are even in my family – ya know what they say ’bout families. I don’t think the Dems should ‘write people off’ simply because of religion. You tie it in. I know what they talk about and the war in Iraq is a big one, as are other things like health care, abortion, etc. Like you said above: Stuff that’s considered too “out there” for national debate IS the stuff of local debate.
SteveAudio @ 89
Hey, I’d watch that if it were on Pay Per View!
Indeed it is. Last March I wrote this op-ed for the Los Angeles Times. In April AM Radio’s most beloved drug addict, Rush Limbaugh, had a “song parody” presumeably inspired by it. Since then I’ve been on thtree different call-in shows, had several op-eds wirtten about my op-ed, and tomoorw morning I’m going to be on the “Today” show.
Why?
Not because of Obama, but because of the Oxycontin Creep.
That still seems high to me. I walk through the world and it just blows me away that one in every four people I see are just that out of it. What are they thinking?
Actually, I know exactly what they’re thinking. They’re walking around thinking, “Mmmmm. Potato salad…”
I hope something smart and useful comes from the media consortium. It was great to see you there yesterday. It’s refreshing to see indy media types figuring out how to collaborate and at least keep abreast of what one another is doing. Air America could have done a better from the start if we’d had more of a team behind us. Being hamstrung by money from the start means all sorts of (in my view) bad short term decisions have been made to save – or make – a buck.
TRex @ 92
No, actually, if they’re guys, they’re thinking…never mind. Potato salad would be an improvement.
Laura Flanders @ 93
Thanks, much, Laura, for doing what you do.
Am on the phone with C&L world headquarters. They’re gonna put up the Lou Dobbs clip. It really is remarkable.
Seconded! Please come by any time. There’s always something going on at the Lake, any time of the day or night.
C&L world HQ lol
Jane Hamsher @ 96
Excellent!
egregious @ 98
aka The Batcave
TeddySanFran @ 89
Smart points, both. I think we’re at an interesting moment in history (Richard Viguerie of all people, calls it “historic” on the back of Blue Grit.) A whole lot of Blue Gritters are gaining the skills and savvy — and the means (thanks to Act Blue and FDL etc) — to run for office and gain a seat at the Democratic party table. Now — will they be allowed to remake that table? Or will they be asked to remain loyal foot soldiers. The go-along footsoldiers took a hit from their voters after they voted for the lame Supplemental. That’s why it was important that they got a chance to vote on McGovern and Feingold’s tougher bills last week, and vote more from their heart. They were sending messages to their angry base. That all the pres candidates did the same was significant.
My question –
What will be the point of the Democratic Convention in Denver in ‘08? What can Blue Gritters use the occasion for, do you think?
Jane Hamsher @ 96
Dave Neiwert at Orcinus has a great post about it as well. (BTW, he’s originally from Idaho and has some terrific books out about our – at times – ‘unseemly’ history.)
Dobb is a particularly scary example of the “Voice of the Common Man” meat puppet. O’Reilly is a very obvious clown, but Dobbs came out of right field by a quite different route. Politics wasn’t his balliwick. Now it is.
He’s right on the edge of overt racism — as you so deftly point out with his use of “alien,” Laura.
The real killer is his Leprosy meme.
Any thoughts yet on your next book? Personally I’d like to see Blue Grit II to see how much of the “bottom up” made it to the top and what new strategies and organizing come from 2006’s experiences.
David Ehrenstein @ 92
David E.! You’re gonna be on the Today Show?
Hi Laura…
While cooking the Sunday roast I enjoyed listening to your programme. Really really sad they (the Green’s?) changed the weekend format.
Anyways, in your travels do you really think this country is ready for a female president? (that said, is the Middle East).
Could Hillary in your opinion be sold as our conservative pro-war (friend of Reagan) Thatcher (with the help of Murdoch), and then at the same time be held as a liberal progressive democrat (apparently supported by the polls?).
Finally, I’ve heard your reservations in the past about Gore. If he did put a toe into the race would you change your mind about him?
Laura Flanders @ 103
Good question. I was just mulling over yesterday at the conference if I was going to have to go, not too anxious to do so, seems like a bit of a geek fest.
Another major malfunction for Dems has been their consultant corps. An interesting article in Rolling Stone recently pointed out how the GOP hitmen/consultants draw a flat fee while those that work with the Democrat candidates base rip-off fees on television time buys – like they think they’re just an ad agency. And some poor ads and poor selection of time buys and media they’ve been too.
I love Bob Shrum, but what a maroon.
whizkid @ 110
Someone just told me Bob Shrum was going to have a new show on Air America. And then they took all the sharp objects out of the room.
Just a rumor, mind you, but it was enough to send me over the edge.
Micahel Ohku and a two ma crew was here all Friday afternoon. He was late so the crew guys pent two hours on the lighting — making my dining room look like Hearst Castle or something.
They did the “walking shot” of Ohku and I going past my bookshelf. The crew guy asked for “a book on politics” to pan up from — so I gave him Noam Chomsky’s Manufacturing Consent. If they use that shot, I’ve given Chomsky a plug on a network that would rather sell their firstborn on ebay than book him.
whizkid @ 110
This was something Markos and Jerome mentioned in Crashing The Gates. There’s such an obvious conflict of interest in that arrangement that you wonder how they can get away with it. At least I, as an outsider, certainly wonder.
Frankly, I think Lou was so rattled precisely because implicitly I brought racism up. He knows there’s a white-supremacist strain to the populist wave he’s riding and playing to. But it’s not just him. He’s playing to a base that’s all over the country — liberal even left on working issues, and simply rotten on so called “cultural” stuff which is code for changing the table of America such that white men are not always at the head, speaking English. Shorthand, but you know what I mean, I bet. I hear those voices a lot — on radio and in my email box.
Hi Laura, I just wanted to parachute in to say that I love your broadcasts on Air America Radio. Thanks for speaking the truth so well.
Laura Flanders @ 102
Progressive taxation, Universal Health Care, Public Works
Precisely! That’s the beating heart of this whole thing: Lou Dobbs wondering just how racist he wants to appear.
S.O.S. from MA @ 114
This brings up a question regarding Laura’s broadcasts – are they going to be available on the Internet (streaming audio, podcast)?
Jane Hamsher @ 111
If that’s true, I’ll take the Air America button off my car radio. Bob Shrum is the posterboy for what has been wrong with the Democratic Party and their inability to effectively fight the Bush Regime and the Republican jihad against American values.
Shrum, seriously?
Jihad.
Laura Flanders @ 102
Avoiding plague-infested squirrels would be my highest priority.
Seriously, though, we have some veterans of the demonstrations at the 2000 convention here at FDL who plan to be outsiders if this war hasn’t been stopped by next summer. Additionally, some FDLers’ll probably be elected delegates to their state conventions next year, and maybe nationally as well.
BlueGritters are just as likely to be outsiders as insiders. Partly it depends on where you’re from, but I learned last winter that a very progressive area (like mine) is just as susceptible to machine politics as a very conservative area. Losing, like winning, can be the singular province of a finely tuned Democratic party machine wary of newcomers and outsiders. Having a monopoly on the organization is one goal of a political machine; not having very well organized opposition on the actual other side doesn’t dim their enthusiasm for real fights.
egregious @ 118
Isn’t he on all the TV news channels already?
whizkid @ 110
Kos and Armstrong dealt so well with Shrum (as have others)that I barely touched the topic in Blue Grit. I was struck, though, but how much better the GOP’s campaign consultants are treated at the state level. They’re kept in work, from season to season, and hired to work on national campaigns if their work is good. There’s a sense among local consultants on the Dem side that there’s no room whatsoever at the top. Not all consultants suck. But some fail resolutely upwards — like Shrum. Others, usually the smartest ones, are cut off on the day after the campaign, regardless. I even found some who’d gone to work for the “other” side — and taken their lists and expertise with them — simply because their “own” had no work for them and didn’t seem to give a fig what they thought.
The divide between the “Mainstream” and Greater Blogistan couldn’t be starker than today. We’re all about Comey’s testimony and they’re all about Reagan’s “Diaries” — doubtless carefully confected by his Rove, Michael Deaver.
Laura Flanders @ 113
What I meant to say was such that white men are NOT always at the head, speaking English.
[Fixed by moderator]
Oh my heavens. If Shrum comes to AAR, that’s it for me.
Laura Flanders @ 114
Indeed he does, in a sotto voce way – Speaking to his white investor class viewers and their emulators, who, like certain ‘liberal causes’ financiers talk a good game about race relations and iniquities…But come up short on the action side when such action cuts into the cash flow.
howieklein @ 118
I’ll second that!
Hi Laura, you kicked a little booty on Lou Dobbs. I agree that Lou knows he’s got the White KKK’ers tagging along with him and he tries to play it down. And he knows the power of words so good for you on calling him out.
True. They often have, uh surrogates — like Clarence, Colin and Condi.
(See? I’m on my very best behavior, as them’s that know me can tell.)
Dobbs on immigration.
Seems to me that Dobbs figured he needed a defining issue and chose to adopt this one as his signature agenda item.
He may not have thought his way through it when he made his decision- but he’s way too far down the road to become sane on the issue.
He’s got to keep beatin the same ol drum.
David, do you have any more songs to share with us? hehe
David Ehrenstein @ 129
Indeed. That was the topic of BUSHWOMEN; Tales of a Cynical Species — my last book. People wanted me to write a bio of Condi after that. Glad I didn’t. What will I do next? Dunno quite. I’m fascinated by what happens to Blue Gritters who get into office, what happens to their spirit, their work, their relationships. As to Hillary, in many ways, she seems like the anti-grit. Every where I went, I looked for Hillary support. Couldn’t find any well of it. Where is the well of Hillary support? Outside of corporate America, I can’t find it.
Jane Hamsher @ 109
ProgressNowAction.org is activist/blogger central for the Democratic Convention in 2008. They have a great track record, taking down one rotten GOoPer after another — the current target is our crook employing Secretary of State, Mike Coffman.
SquareState.net on the Democratic Convention.
JohnE’s ProgressNow blogpost on the Convention. (JohnE is the Denver Drinking Liberally organizer — yea, johne!!!)
rwcole @ 131
The thing that makes Dobbs disingenuous is not his call for immigration reform but his denial of the racist element that he tacitly stokes. His insistence that the Minutemen are just good, honest, hardworking Americans without any acknowledgment of what they really want and where they come from allows Lou to pretend he’s not pandering to good old fashioned bigots when he clearly is. Laura calling him out on his language obviously hit a sore spot because Lou is not stupid and somewhere he has to know that this is what he’s doing. It brought out all his worst, most patronizing bully qualities.
Laura – thank you so much for the focus on *local* issues and actually listening to what real people are saying. There’s been such an arrogance to the political process – and it kills our chances for real change. Just look at the clear rejection of the Iraq occupation by the majority of americans – and the refusal of our “leadership” to act.
Changing the table – wonderful! thank you!
Welcome, Laura! I just got home and now have to catch up on all the discussion and goodness.
So good to have you here.
You had mentioned Dobbs on immigration. What is your take on the O’Reilly/Rivera battle? I never thought I would say this, but I agree with some of Rivera’s points: it wasn’t about illegal immigration, it was about the offense. Additionally, it’s not the state’s job to deport immigrants.
My current favorite is a new one by Rufus Wainwright:
“I’m going to a town that has already been burned down
I’m going to a place that is already been disgraced
I’m gonna see some folks who have already been let down.
I’m so tired of America
I’m gonna make it up for all of the Sunday Times
I’m gonna make it up for all of the nursery rhymes
They never really seem to want to tell the truth
I’m so tired of you America
Making my own way home
Ain’t gonna be alone
I got a life to lead America
I got a life to lead
Tell me do you really think you go to hell for having loved?
Tell me and not for thinking every thing that you’ve done is good
(I really need to know)
After soaking the body of Jesus Christ in blood
I’m so tired of America
(I really need to know)
I may just never see you again or might as well
You took advantage of a world that loved you well
I’m going to a town that has already been burned down
I’m so tired of you America
Making my own way home
Ain’t gonna be alone
I got a life to lead America
I got a life to lead
I got a soul to feed
I got a dream to heed
And that’s all I need
Making my own way home
Ain’t gonna be alone
I’m going to a town that has already been burned down”
137
One smart way to think about that “offense” is that under current law it’s a misdemeanor just about equivalent to a speeding ticket. As one person told me, people drive over the limit all time. If they get ticketed we don’t call them — and their families — “illegal drivers” for the rest of their lives. Pay the fine. Move on. If you’re worried about downward pressure on wages, defend unions and enforce workplace laws, don’t encourage powerless worker (”guest worker”) programs.
I’ve had a wonderful time swimming the FDLake.
Now I’m off to do the last live RadioNation broadcast — we’ll return to one of our continuing topics — the Katrina/Broken Levee scandal. Tune in folks and join the broadcast. We’ll also be talking about Hillary Inc.
Call in # is 866 303 2270.
And sign up for my email list at lauraflanders.com so I can alert you to where I’ll pop up next.
Laura Flanders @ 133
Laura, I think it ill be fascinating to track the Blue Gritters once they have a few months in office. The process of capitulation is often swift – as far as I can tell, very few hold on to their Grit once they’re ensconced. Your take?
Jane- Agree- he’s quite aware that he’s digging into the bowels of tribalism for personal gain- and it is disgusting. Goes well with his “populist” schtick about protectionism- americans first- save american jobs-etc.
Thanks Laura, see you later on Radio(sniff,sniff)Nation
Great posting with you, Laura!
Laura Flanders @ 123
I read that before the 2004 election, Morton Blackwell sent out a memo — stating that HE would evaluate the performance of GOP consultants. Those who produced would be rewarded, those who didn’t — would be fired.
What a concept — rewarding success, and penalizing failure.
Morton Blackwell’s Political Friendster page.
Karl Rove’s Political Friendster page.
If Karl Rove is the Darth Vader of the GOP, then Morton Blackwell is the Evil Emperor.
Laura Flanders: You Rock!!
David Ehrenstein @ 129
That’s mighty, um, white of you David :)
Laura Flanders @ 141
Thanks so much for being here today, Laura. The book is great and we’ve really enjoyed having you.
So sorry its the last RadioNation. You’ve done incredible work and should be really proud.
Jane Hamsher @ 64
Yes! The composure. How I admire and envy that ability. It’s tough when the composure falls apart and the seething contempt creeps out.
Saw you on C-Span very early this morning, Laura, speaking in a bookstore. Very much enjoyed your talk.
How about a look at a targeted campaign to re-instate the Fairness Doctrine ? That could be a way to mainstream progressive ideology.
Thanks for having Laura.
Jane Hamsher @ 134
Exactly.
He comes across all ‘liberal’ in re: middle class workers, but then these tirades show him to care about workers only as cogs in the machinery of manufacturing.
Jane Hamsher @ 52
amazon.com is about as far from progressive as you can get as far as politics goes.
I buy my stuff from alibris or independent booksellers online. If amazon does give an author a leg up for the NYT lists it is at the expense of contributions being made to GOP causes which I am not willing to support.
Thanks Lakers…
What a great way to kick off today.
There will be no sniff-sniffing from me. And don’t forget RadioNation will still be heard, Sundays at 1pm ET and streaming, and podcasting. (you betcha.) Thanks for your help and support, Jane.
As far as I can see, this Blue Grit wave is just getting started. As am I. Don’t forget: The bull-rider’s 8 seconds only count if the bull is WILD….
Onward and upward.
L
first bull riding analogy ever on
FDL that I can recall.
SteveAudio @ 152
Addleminded, unruly children who would never have it so good if only they would capitulate to the all-knowing corporate paterfamilias.
;>)
Great job Laura! I’m at the C&L World Headquarters now..hehe..I’m posting the Dobbs vid …David E, nice to see you too…
((((((((((LAURA))))))))))
clichy @ 153
I buy my stuff from alibris or independent booksellers online. If amazon does give an author a leg up for the NYT lists it is at the expense of contributions being made to GOP causes which I am not willing to support.
You’re absolutely correct. I have a couple of online booksellers or, like today, I have a couple of independent booksellers in town, both woman-owned, where I ordered the two books of Laura I bought today.
To me it’s akin to shopping at Wal-Mart; it’ not going to happen.
good old billjpa comes lately but what the hell. Hey there Laura, it appears that from what I can see based on the above, what you are saying is that Deans 50 state initiative is what the dems should be focusing on. Now that is what I believe wholeheartedly but ya know what? Its not who we vote for– it who get the vote! Ya get that?
Remember- its not who votes Laura, it is who counts the vote!
Honestly, I don’t understand why the outrage about Dobb’s program. Are you against his advocacy journalistic style, or do you object his voice out against illegal immigration? They aren’t called illegal immigrants for no reason; their stay in the country is illegal. They are entitled to human rights, but by no mean civil rights of the United States. Before you call me racist let me tell you this: I am an international student from Asia (yes I got into this country legally). I have an Asian friend who just got pregnant, and now she’s going through the torturous legal procedures to get her mom into the States, so that she can help taking care of the new born. I am not a fan of all the complicated legal procedures; but I understand the US is a sovereign nation and it’s the government’s job to protect it, and so I respect it. But now you’re telling me hundreds of aliens get through the southern border unchecked daily? Very interesting. And there’s no outrage from American citizens? You guys are really generous people. But in this case please also let my friend’s mom get here easier.
tg @ 161
I am not outraged at Lou Dobbs. I simply do not listen to anyone who gives their guest less then 15 seconds to speak.
If you are a citizen then YOU take care of your pregnant friend and the child is a citizen and you are not and YOU cry to the immigration judge boo hoo. Change the rules, protect the borders.