There probably aren't that many people who know there's an election in 3 days, let alone a really important election. In fact, I wasn't terribly shocked when I read that the turn-out could be as low as 15%. I'm talking about the gubernatorial primary in Kentucky and it's this Tuesday. The backstory is that the incumbent, Republican Ernie Fletcher was indicted last May on 3 misdemeanor charges stemming from out-of-control corruption in his administration which includes him issuing blanket pardons to many of his closest political cronies. Even after indictment he refused to resign and was arraigned on June 7, 2006. He weaseled out of a prison sentence when a judge ruled that he was protected by executive immunity until after he leaves office. Fletcher has had some of the lowest approval ratings of any governor anywhere for the last few years. The latest SUSA Survey (May 17) shows him with a 38% approval rating, overall.
Among Kentucky Republicans, however, his approval rating is 53%. And therein lies an incredible opportunity for Democrats. The least popular governor in America is almost certain to lose the general election, but is probably going to win the Republican primary. His opponent is Anne Northup, a pathetic GOP rubber stamp who was ousted from her congressional seat in November by John Yarmuth. She is so incompetent that her bungling is actually making Fletcher look ok– at least to wingnuts. The latest polls show Fletcher beating her convincingly, 41-26%.
And that brings us to the golden opportunity for Democrats… almost. One of the two front runners, Bruce Lunsford, is as much a Democrat as Joe Lieberman or Zell Miller. Sounds strong? It's meant to. In Kentucky, Lunsford is the quintessential representative of the rotten, reactionary and corrupt old Democratic Establishment that still hasn't quite decided to go over to the GOP. He is a DLC Democrat who is always endorsing and donating money to Republicans– from George Bush to Ernie Fletcher to Anne Northup. He's a corrupt businessman and scam-artist who is absolutely loaded. He's outspent his rival, former Lt. Governor and Attorney General Steve Beshear, 3 to 1.
We'll talk about Steve Beshear with our guest today, Cliff Schecter, but I want to say something else about why this race is so important. Even above and beyond the kind of corrupt practices and arch-reactionary policies Lunsford is promising to bring to Kentucky– such as teaching creationism in the public schools– this is a hack who is as damaging to the Democratic brand as any of the DLC players who have only the most tangential relationship with Democratic Party values and principles.
And there's another factor to consider every bit as important. There is no one in the Congress who has been more of an obstructionist, especially in terms of ending the occupation of Iraq, than Kentucky Senator Mitch McConnell, the Minority Leader. McConnell is a close friend and political ally of Lunsford. If Lunsford is elected, the chances of defeating McConnell in 2008 will become considerably slimmer. Steve Beshear already opposed McConnell for Senate– while Lunsford was out campaigning for him (and appointing his equally corrupt "wife" to the Board of Directors of his crooked corporation– fined for cheating Medicare of over a BILLION dollars).
Earlier I mentioned that turnout Tuesday could be as low as 15%. Lunsford has dumped a small fortune into a GOTV operation which will feature plenty of free-flowing cash. Even though the most recent polls show that Beshear has pulled ahead (27-21%), this will come down to the wire. It is unlikely that whoever gets the most votes Tuesday will avoid a June runoff. If you know anyone in Kentucky– relatives, old school friends, former colleagues…– please consider getting in touch with them in the next couple of days and talking to them about this race. And to help us understand it, we've got our old pal Cliff Schecter, a man who once worked for the odious Lunsford, here to answer questions about Kentucky politics in general and about Lunsford and Beshear in particular.



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howie!
Howie!
Howie!
Howie!! Cliffie!! Firepups!!
Hi everyone. Good to be back at The Lake. Pummel me with your questions, I’ll do my best…
Hey Paddy,
I do you miss you for the 2-3 hours we sometimes go without talking.
Hi. I want to welcome Cliff back to FDL. And before we get started I’d like to ask Cliff if Beshear is any good. I mean I mostly concentrated on how terrible and Liebermanesque Lunsford is. What about Steve Beshear? Will he make a good governor, Cliff?
Hey Cliff!
Welcome back. And hello to Howie.
Howie!
Thank you for covering this election. I’m a native of the Bluegrass living away. Fortunately, most of my family votes strong, PROGRESSIVE D and I’d be quite surprised if any of them are with Lunsford. But I will follow up with them again just to be on the safe side…
Hiya, Cliff!
So, do Kentuckians *know* that Lunsford is a Republican and just not care, or are they just misinformed?
Just here to see if I can learn anything mister! (plus Howie is teh cool)
Cliff Schecter @ 4
welcome cliff! i’m afraid that all i know about kentucky politics is what i just read in howie’s post… so, while i won’t be able to ask any useful questions, i’m looking forward to reading what you, howie and the rest have to write…
Hi egregious and thanks…
And yes Howie, Steve Beshear will make a very good governor in my opinion. Most importantly, there the man in charge of the Democratic Party in Kentucky is a corrupt hack named Jerry Ludergan. Beshear, who favors good government measures, has promised to replace him. He is a big fan of Howard Dean’s 50 state project, and wants to build up the grassroots of the party.
Specifically, on issues, he wants universal healthcare for children immediately, scholarships that will pay for all kids in KY to go to college if they stay around upon graduation, wants a major raise in the minimum wage, is very pro-union, is pro-choice, believes in equality for everyone, and would veto a bill that would ban domestic partner benefits at the U of Kentucky and U. of Louisville and thinks Iraq was a disastrous mistake….I am not saying he’s perfect (against gay marriage for example, but we need to be realistic here), but still, how’s that for a pretty progressive Southern Governor?
Hey Howie
Howie:
That this race is strategic is clear from the way you described it. Unfortunately, even though I’m blessed with friends and relatives around the globe, KY is the one state in which I know no one, zilch. Nor do I know anyone connected to someone in Kentucky.
My question: is public education considered important in Kentucky? Would people care what kind of biology is being taught?
My dad’s family left there so he would get a decent education. Hope things have changed since then.
[Breathitt Co.]
Folks as Howie said, this is a classic race of a DLCer faux Dem against a guy who will fight for our side and shares our core values, even if we disagree on some specifics.
The Kentucky Party will benefit, and we will all benefit, when he helps us rid the US Senate of Mitch McConnell by actually backing our efforts, unlike his opponents…
Eli’s question @ 10 is a good one though, if anyone can answer it.
Cliff, is there anything we can do to influence this race’s outcome? I have a feeling Biodun (comment #15) isn’t the only one he’s describing.
egregious @ 16
egregious,
Public education has been pretty good in KY, when compared to much of the South (I know that is not always saying much). But Beshear is dedicated to improving it. It is a hallmark of what he wishes to accomplish.
egregious @ 16
I’m from Harrison Co and had teacher on both sides of the family from way back (my aunt graduated with a math degree from Transylvania in 1929). Like everywhere, there are both good and bad districts.
Eli @ 10
Many Kentuckians just don’t know. He has spent gazillions on slick ads (as he did in 2003) to clean up his image. If we help everyone know the breadth of his support for the GOP, I think they will definitely make the right choice.
Look, when I joined him in 2003, I believed him that he had supported GOPers in the past because of business reasons. Maybe I was naive. But I bought it. Yet, since his last run, he has endorsed Fletcher, given 77% of donations to GOPers and gave more money to Northrup than Yarmuth. So it is a pretty easy choice now if we can just get the info out.
Cliff Schecter @ 20
So no teaching creationism and other Buy Bull stories in public schools, like Lunsford is promising?
howieklein @ 19
I think everyone here needs to contact every friend, relative, pet, neighbor–everyone you can in Kentucky and let them know the stakes. Beshear is the only Democrat, and this will be so important in 2008 (well I suppose Steve Henry is a Dem, but he is personally corrupt and will keep the corrupt Dem Chairman in power).
The key here is for people to do what Moveon did in the last election…”Liquid phone banks,” which means wherever you are, you are a phone bank. Call everyone you know in the state who is a Dem!
Small turnout election should favor the dem base I would think- and those who are more politically informed. Should work out well
It is tough keeping up folks. Because I am not that bright to be honest. So if I miss anything, please ask again, I want to answer as many questions as possible…
What kind of media opportunities do you have at this point, radio interviews, local television?
Cliff,
As a Kentuckian living away, I have followed and kept in touch politically through BluegrassReport and Hillbilly Report as well as the Herald, Courier-Journal, BG Daily News and the hometown weekly. The Herald and Courier have both done a semi-reasonable job, not great, but adequate coverage of Fletcher and Lunsfords lies and mis-directions.
rwcole @ 25
Yeah it will be low turnout. So the more people know that Lunsford is not a Dem, the less we have to worry about. Polls look good. But you guys know how crazy things can turn out. Nothing is for sure in these things.
How strong are the connections between Lunsford and McConnell? I mean if he gets elected as a Democratic governor, how can that make McConnell safer in his seat?
egregious @ 27
I am not doing local media for them because I am not affiliated with this race in any way. I suppose if they were to ask me, as I am now based in Columbus, I would definitely head on down there. But It think they are doing a good job on that front.
dakine01 @ 28
I agree with this. Sadly, as we know, not enough people read the newspapers. But they have done a good job of shedding a light on Lunsford, as media goes.
Cliff Schecter @ 26
Too funny!
You are one of the only good guys on television who has a fast comeback on every issue. Keep up the good work.
Any pictures available of the dino huggin McConnell?- Or better- Clusterfuck?
Hi Cliff,
Good to see you again! :)
Is there a grassroots effort there on Beshear’s behalf? What about ads?
Cliff Schecter @ 29
Are Beshear’s supporters as energized as Lamont’s were? Or does Lunsford benefit from not being an incumbent, so there isn’t that backlash of people desperate to get rid of him?
howieklein @ 30
Well, Howie, Lunsford has given McConnell, and his machine a huge amount of money. Until he became an embarassment, Fletcher was McConnell’s golden boy. And Lunsford dropped out of the race in ‘03 and endorsed (I found out afterwards of course). Lunsford has supported McConnell personally with money, and the local machine.
I dont’ see how he takes him on even if he wanted to, as a past supporter, but don’t suspect he’ll want to.
Thanks, Howie and Cliff — any signs on where the candidate stands on religion in schools/public places. Is this a big issue in Kentucky?
howieklein @ 30
Howie, I know in the last week or so, I read something on one of the KY blogs about the connections between Lunsford/McConnell, and Lundergan. But Lunsford has given I believe the max to McConnell in contributions most every year.
Audrey @ 35
Because Lunsford has been so anti-labor, there is a labor 527 which formed just to remind voters of his Fletcher support. He also has ads up and on the grassroots front, a number of groups like Change For Kentucky have endorsed Beshear and are getting the message out.
I guess I can contact my Senator, Amy Klobuchar, and tell her about this thread. Maybe she knows someone in KY.
Scarecrow @ 38
This is an issue. Lunsford thinks Creationism should be in schools. And Henry actually attacks Beshear in a commercial because during the time he as LG in the late 80s they took the Ten Commandments out of schools. He is not averse to relgion. Just believes in that crazy separation of Chuch and State thing.
Biodun @ 41
Sure, everyone matters!
Cliff,
Can you talk a little about the importance of posting and spreading the word to the MSM about how much of a blow it will be to McConnell is Lunsford and Northup go down on Tuesday? How can we influence reporters on framing that story?
Eli @ 36
I think Beshear’s supporters have become more energized, when Jonathan Miller, the State Treasurer and a great guy, dropped out and supported him. Progressives were split before. But now they realize there is only one choice.
Folks, this may be an opportunity for us to use SPOTLIGHT to get this out to the media in Kentucky.
Let’s do it!
Biodun @ 41
Be careful, with that. Many in the DC Establishment support Lunsford, just like they supported Lieberman and Zell Miller. The Clintons have been big supporters of Lieberman and ole Zell and there are rumors that there are MANY ties between Hillary and Lunsford.
Is support for/opposition to Bush playing a role in the Dem primary?
Note that Rasumussen now has Bush at all time low = 34% vs 64% disapproval.
Cliff Schecter @ 40
Thanks, Cliff. I don’t know anyone there, but some of us may be connected through the internet through social networking groups like MySpace, Yahoo, etc. where the message can be spread. Worth a look-see.
DitchMitch @ 44
Great question from my friends at Ditch Mitch (I contribute there, now and again, and recommend the site for 2008 if you want to take down McConnell).
The great thing these days is that reporters read blogs, like Bluegrass Report and national ones. So this stuff gets out there. When I called the Beshear folks they knew this was taking place.
But you can use the Spotlight function at certain blogs (like mine) to send posts directly to certain reporters. You can call or email. You can create YouTubes. There are many ways to make sure they understand grassroots sentiment.
Now specifically on McCOnnell, remind them that he HAND PICKED Ernie Fletcher for the nomination. ANd all his people aer now supporting Northrup. After her loss to Yarmuth, her losing again would be a big blow. But the frame is that either way McConnell loses. And if Lunsford loses, then we know we’ll have a Dem who is ready to take him on, in terms of helping our nominee from the statehouse.
Yes, we must frame this as a McConnell loss. Because that is what it is…
rwcole @ 34
Like another Kiss Float?
Is crossover voting allowed in the Kentucky primary?
Scarecrow @ 48
I think some as many know of Lunsford’s support for Bush. Hell, he held a tribute to his dad in 1995. That is certainly motivating core Dems.
To give credit where it is due. At my site, our guy on the beat, The Hounddog, who is from Kentucky wrote a great post on the whole thing we are talking about. http://cliffschecter.blogspot……es-in.html when you have a chance later.
rwcole @ 52
No. Registration is by party or indy and no cross-overs at all.
MayDaze @ 51
Yes, there is a picture out there of Lunsford with McCOnnell and Fletcher floating around. I am sure there are many more. Definitely search teh KY blogs and see waht you can find. A float would actually be a great idea, hint hint, for any of you who live in KY.
Looks like in the Rasmussen JAR for Bush, Bush just took a huge hit on immigration, with “amnesty” opponents moving from “strongly approve” to strongly disapprove (my guess). Is the immigration proposed deal a factor in Kentucky?
MSNBC
Reporting possible curfews in urban america.
GOnzo’s been to at least 17 LA philly, boston, NOLA, NYC, detroit since the election. note they want gun, gang and other things aside votes.
I-Conn has his back.
just reporting.
ps-> twolf1 -
got that lil giftie a while back, #146ish. Helluva coincidecne.
Try…
http://www.searchlores.org/contract.html
Mary4 liked it waaay back. And I sure do like her. Need a music group sumptin like Firedog and the rants. Loosehead and the props….
ET – once again. see previous…likely intriguing. Talented helpeth. Astonding stories…
http://www.spaceref.com/
[Mod Note; let’s keep completely off topic comments on the previous thread. Thanks.]
Cliff – as someone who has spent time in both DC and KY – can you tell us more about the local reports of Lunsford’s consultants – specifically this Penn Schoen & Berland firm that was also written about by Ari Berman in The Nation this week?
dakine01 @ 39
Yes, he contributes big to them all. Remember, 77% of political donations to GOPers, including Bush and McConnell and Northup for that matter. He gave more to her than Yarmuth. So if she were the nominee, how could he effectively run against her?
These are links to a couple of KY blogs which have subsections on Lunsford, McConnell, Fletcher et al:
http://bluegrassreport.org/
http://www.hillbillyreport.com/
There was originally another progressive in the race, Jonathan Miller. He dropped out and endorsed Beshear so that he wouldn’t split the vote and make Kentuckians wind up chosing between Henry and Lunsford, two corrupt fake-Dems. I just got this quote e-mailed to me from Jonathan:
If there’s a run-off in June, between Hounddog, Cliff and myself, we’re going to try to get Jonathan to come on to FDL and talk about the race and KY politics from his perspective.
DitchMitch @ 58
Sure. Wherever their is slime in our party, there are Penn and Schoen. Yes, I also worked for them. You now know my two dirtiest political secrets. Although it was ‘96, I was young, and we were trying to reelect a Dem president. But, in any case, Penn and Schoen were his consultants in 2003, now they have split, and Schoen still is. These are guys who have worked for Republicans (Bloomberg), neo-fascists (Belusconi) and every crappy company you can think of (Texaco, Pharma, etc.)…Ari’s piece hit the nail on the head and I recommend you all read it.
Because this is one part of a large fight in our party. Will we let the Penns, Schoens, Liebermans and Lunsfords speak for us, or will get back to our progressive roots.
Mitch “Don’t Ask” McConnell and Elaine “Don’t Tell” Chao appear to have a great marriage.
Interesting about the creationism shit.
I have an unconfirmed hunch that this sort of thing is becoming a losing strategy.
Lots of people go to church and put some money in the plate and drink the grape juice- and if ya asked em “is the Bible literally true? they’d probably hem and haw and then say “guess so”- but they also know many who are flipped out on religion- people who can’t open their mouths without the Lord jumpin out of it- and they know that these people tend ta be a little unbalanced and unreliable- with shiavo and some of the other bullshit goin down lately- I’m not so sure this is a winner.
howieklein @ 47
Thanks, Howie…I just learned all I need to know about why I should support Steve Beshear.
Scarecrow @ 56
Good question. I am pretty sure Beshear is progressive on this issue, and takes the labor position against expoitation of immigrants by business supporters of Bush. Not sure entirely, I must admit though.
Picture of Lunsford and friends. May be photoshopped but unknown…
Cliff, what high value dems are down there helping out?
Howie @ 47:
Oops. Thanks for that warning. I actually haven’t done that yet but would have if I hadn’t been distracted. I guess I have my 17-year-old to thank for that. Ah, these labyrinthine political tangles we don’t know about. Glad you guys are on top of all that.
David Robinson @ 63
No comment of course. But Howie has many great posts on this that involve a closet and appliances.
Rasmussen is VERY unreliable- his numbers are higher than average- but that’s not the problem- the problem is that they go up and down for no particular reason and out of synch with other polls. Maybe he combines his polling for prune juice with his political stuff with uncertain results.
Loo Hoo. @ 68
A lot of KY Dems are. Most of Jonathan Miller’s supporters have joined with Beshear. Nationally most are staying out of it. But I can tell you this. I have heard from reliable sources that if Beshear wins Howard Dean is going to put real money into the party. If he loses and one of the other stooges wins, thereby keeping Jerry Lundergan in power, it ain’t gonna happen.
David Robinson @ 63
Cliff Schecter @ 70
I had a comment, back in July, 2003.
“that involve a closet and appliances. “
That’s funny!!
One more thing on big name Dems. Former Guv Brereton Jones has endorsed him, and the only Openly gay Kentucky legislator, State Sen Ernesto Scorsone of Lexington, has also strongly endorsed Steve.
rwcole @ 74
I try my best :)
rwcole @ 64
I agree. And it’s a pander on Lunsford’s part. He simply doesn’t believe it. So it’s bad politics and bad faith.
Please use the previous thread for comments that are not on topic.
Thanks.
My Kentucky cousins are all GOP. At family events, there’s always a moratorium on politics, unless of course there’s a Clinton impeachment afoot. In which case they won’t stop talking about politics. Now — not so much, though.
My guess is they are disillusioned Fletcherites, perhaps for Northup now. Not interested in stirring them up, but I sure appreciate the heat Cliff and Howie are generating on this race today — no zeal like a once-misled convert’s, eh, laddies?
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 73:
707!
Chao on MacDonald’s and expanding waistlines, especially in light of one of the topic strands on junk food and low-income people in the last thread.
TeddySanFran @ 79
I agree. Never hurts to remind those who are still with the GOP how bad they all are. With some, the message eventually gets through. I have seen it with family and friends…
We’ve seen — in Florida and Ohio — how a friendly governor can help his own party cheat and win. Would Kentucky Democrats actually put up a weak candidate against Mr. Mitch Chao, or would they be able to actively undermine Mr. Chao’s Democratic opponent next year, if Lunsford won the governor’s chair?
dakine01 @ 67
Why do you think it’s photoshopped? Is it because McConnell looks like a zombie? He always looks like a zombie. If you lived your whole life in a closet, you’d look like a zombie too.
I want to make sure to say this for the record. I hold no ill will towards Mr. Lunsford personally. We left on good terms and he was always personally nice to me. So this is not about that.
This is about progressives taking back this country.
TeddySanFran @ 79
TSF, Fletcher was to Frankfort as The Chimpenfuhrer was to DC. Made all sorts of promises and did almost exactly the opposite of what he promised.
howieklein @ 83
Howie, c’mon, he leaves the closet every so often to accept a brown bag filled with money from his Chinese Communist benefactors.
howieklein @ 83
The original poster and commenters were not sure is all so I basically was repeating their caveats.
Cliff Schecter @ 86
OMG! Don’t tell me McConnell is hooked up with the Chinese Commies. How is that possible? On O’Reilly and Hannity they always say the Republicans are patriotic. Could O’Reilly and Hannity have been duped?
TeddySanFran @ 82
Unfortunately there are large numbers of DINOs in KY who are supporting McConnell, some overtly, most covertly.
TeddySanFran @ 82
This is the key issue, if I understand correctly. Beshear ran against McConnell in ‘96. He is a real Dem, even if you disagree with him on this issue or that. When Jerry Lundergan was voted in as the head of the Kentucky Dem Party, he resigned in protest as party counsel.
He will support Dems in their efforts to bring good government to KY and the country by beating McConnell, among other things. Lunsford, for all we know, has business interests that will benefit more by having McConnell there, like in the past. And he will keep Lundergan there, who doesn’t want anything close to good government. So you can figure it all out from that.
howieklein @ 87
Now that’s just crazy talk.
howieklein @ 88
Sadly yes. Google McConnell and Chinese Government or something to that effect and you may just be surprised at what you find. A very dirty relationship there indeed.
Cliff Schecter @ 92
Even more so because how could such Mensa candidates like O’Reilly and Hannity ever be duped…I thought it wasn’t possible. Or maybe they’re on the take and don’t care.
Eli @ 91
if they were, it was through self-deception…
dakine01 @ 89
Absolutely true, he has bribed many a Dem with dirty campaign contributions
Cliff Schecter @ 95
In fact, Congressman Whitfield, until he met Mitch, was a Democrat. I think he was president of The Young Dems in KY or something like that. But he is now a reactionary, because, well, it pays well.
Cliff Schecter @ 29
Cliff, the only problem with this is that we know Lunsford has a lot of money, and he’s spent a lot of it on field operations. We don’t have any reason to believe that Lundergan (the state party chair) will be doing any independent turnout, so there’s some legitimate concern that Lunsford’s field ops will be able to improve on his poll numbers. It’s frankly just really hard to tell how things are going to play out on Tuesday.
Yeah- like good athletes- everyone wants to play fer the team that pays the most- the Yankees!
Cliff Schecter @ 86
this sounds like the origins of the both the etymology and practice of ‘tea-bagging’…
.
Dave Meyer @ 97
That is a great point Dave. And it is worrisome. It’s why we need to do all we can to get this message out now. So it is such a blowout that whatever he does cannot effect the numbers, or not enough.
rwcole @ 98
Ooh that hurts. I am a New Yorker by birth and a Yankees fan by family inheritance. But sadly yes, we resemble that remark…
egregious @ 16
Education was terrible in Kentucky through the early nineties. We were typically ranked 49th in most performance measures, from standardized testing to teacher pay — “thank god for Mississippi” was a common saying. Eventually, though, the very progressive education reforms pushed through in 1990 (the Kentucky Education Reform Act) started returning results, and KY steadily moved up the rankings. We’ve backslid a bit since Fletcher came in, but things don’t look terrible.
Cliff Schecter @ 100
Hopefully the Republicans’ money will work as well for them as it currently is for the Yankees…
(Also a transplanted New York fan, although I love the NY/NJ Giants best of all)
Dave Meyer @ 102
For all of you who don’t know Dave, he’s a Kentuckian and knows his stuff. So you can take this to the bank. When I was there 2002-2003 was probably a highpoint, when it had steadily been getting better but before Fletcher took office.
Cliff- My cousin’s son played for the pinstripers (who I have NEVER liked- they’re in the wrong fuck LEAGUE for one thing and their pitchers don’t have ta hit)- but at any rate he led the yanks to beat my Padres in the World Series-
Eli @ 103
Agreed. The GOP money worked much for them in 2006 like the Yankees money currently has. And there are many other examples (think that slime DeVos in Michigan)…So let’s hope that trend continues.
rwcole @ 105
I don’t want to get too far off politics here lest Howie kick my ass. So last question on this: Who was your cousin’s son?
Here’s the Poll from last week (copied from Bluegrass Report)
Dem:
Beshear 27%
Lunsford 21%
Henry 13%
Richards 7%
Galbraith 4%
Hensley 1%
Henry former Lt Gov, Richards Speaker of the House, Galbraith perenial candidate and mar*juana advocate
Rep:
Fletcher 41%
Northup 26%
Harper 10%
Northup former congress critter from Louisville, defeated by Blue America candidate John Yarmouth.
Cliff
Scott Brosius
dakine01 @ 108
Yup, it looks good, but again, we must stay energized. One never knows with these things, as I have learned on way too many election days…
Cliff Schecter @ 104
Dave,
Is Lt Gov still elected independently from Governor? I remember back in the day when the last R gov prior to Fletcher (Louie B) had Wendell Ford as his Lt. Interesting times to say the least…
rwcole @ 109
Wow. Now I’m impressed. Too bad Mr. Amato of C&L isn’t here. He is also a big fan.
Ok, done with baseball talk. Back to why we must win this race!
CBL, we’re getting two refresh comments options. Is one more progressive than the other?
dakine01 @ 111
Don’t know if Dave is still here. Wanted to let him answer. But the answer is that they are now elected together. They also, like in Viginia, used to be able to serve only one term. That changed in the 90s.
Cliff Schecter @ 110
The threshold for avoiding a run-off is 40%. I know there was some discussion about maybe changing it during the recent legislative session but it got shot down.
Just dropped a note to an appropriate Yahoo political group about this. The group has a large membership. Bound to be some there who can help.
rwcole @ 52
No, unless it’s changed in the last few years. KY has partisan registration, and doesn’t allow crossover.
Cliff Schecter @ 90
This is very much correct: if we are going to take on Mitch in 08, we at minimum need someone who’s not going to stand in the way in Frankfort. We can at least count on that from Beshear, while it’s probably the opposite case with Lunsford.
As important, though, is the fact that Jerry Lundergan — the state party chair — can’t be counted on to run an effective political operation. In a strong D cycle last year, the state Senate made no gains, and the state house only picked up 6 or 7. The state party invested heavily in two Congressional races — Lucas-Davis and Weaver-Lewis, both of which ended up bombing. Our Congressional pickup — John Yarmuth — was achieved with virtually no help from Lundergan. Aside from his ethical issues, Lundergan just isn’t up to the task of running the party effectively.
howieklein @ 83
He looks like my dead grandma, if she were a zombie with no morals whatsoever.
Cliff Schecter @ 114
I knew the term had changed. Although it was actually only one term at a time the reality was usually only one term period. I think Happy Chandler (former Baseball Commissioner when jackie Robinson came in AND grandfather of Congressman Ben Chandler) had been the last to get elected to two terms with a term out of office between.
Loo Hoo. @ 113
Sounds like it may be time to clear your browser cache. We can go back to the previous thread if that doesn’t resolve the issue.
dakine01 @ 115
That is true. To me the key thing is to make sure we win the primary with a commanding number, to get all the good press that will go along with it, so we can pick up the supporters of those who don’t make the runoff if we need to.
Obviously my preference would be no runoff. Adn two other polls show Beshear surging to 32% and 35%. So we’ve got a very good chance here with Jonathan’s dropping out and supporting Steve.
Dave Meyer @ 116
And Yarmuth partially self-financed, didn’t he? I know that the netroots were also behind him to an extent. (He’s also proof that DINOism isn’t the key to electoral success in KY. Beshear would reinforce that lesson, should he survive the primary.)
howieklein @ 47
Amy K is not to worry about. Last I checked her voting record was 100% progressive.
dakine01 @ 111
The Lieutenant Governor and Governor run on a slate, together. Ironically, Lunsford’s LG, Greg Stumbo, is far better than Lunsford himself. He’s still a good-old-boy, but he’s at least strongly pro-labor and a fairly partisan Dem. People back in the state are sort of at a loss for why he agreed to run with Lunsford. And Stumbo’s pro-labor record hasn’t stopped the locals from coming out strongly against the slate.
dakine01 @ 119
True. Many KY governors would leave after one term and then they would try and run forever again after being out a term…it made things interesting, if not overly efficient.
More polls:
Courier-Journal conducted May 10 to 14:
Beshear/Mongiardo 27.4%
Lunsford/Stumbo 21.1%
Henry/True 12.8%
Richards/Brown 7.3%
WHAS-TV & SurveyUSA conducted May12 to 14:
Beshear/Mongiardo 32%
Lunsford/Stumbo 23%
Henry/True 18%
Richards/Brown 12%
Click here for the WHAS-TV video clip.
GarinHartYang Research Group conducted May 14 to 15:
Beshear/Mongiardo 35%
Lunsford/Stumbo 23%
Henry/True 13%
Richards/Brown 12%
*Beshear/Mongiardo internal tracking poll
Audrey @ 116
Thanks Audrey. Every bit helps. That’s why we’re doing this…
Phoenix Woman @ 122
That is exactly correct oh Woman of the Phoenix. Yarmuth proved populists can win there (as if one should need to prove this anymore, but as we know the media and many beltway Dems are idiots). Beshear would further that narrative, absolutely.
Cliff Schecter @ 125
I was living in New England during/after John Y Brown’s term. All the folks in KY were afraid that John Y was going to run for Preznit. My sister and I (also in New England) took great delight in informing them that John Y could not get elected to dog catcher anywhere in NE because of what he’d done when he owned the Celtics.
I’ve talked to both Cliff Schecter and Ditch Mitch and although they are both strong progressives, I can personally assure you they are NOT the same person. It looks like someone deleted that troll’s post.
Cliff Schecter @ 128
As a caveat, Yarmouth is from a fairly Blue Louisville. Unfortunately my hometown is now in Davis’ CD which is in fairly red Northern KY. I’m still surprised that Nick Clooney could not win that district in ‘04.
Phoenix Woman @ 121
Yarmuth did largely self finance, though I don’t recall the specific numbers. He spent 1.5 million to Northup’s 2.1. Mor importantly, he developed a strong ground operation in Louisville, something missing from both the Tony Miller-Anne Northup race in 2004 and the Lucas 06 and Weaver 06 campaigns.
howieklein @ 130
I didn’t even see that Howie. LOL. Someone thinks we’re the same? They have the picture of the guy who runs Ditch Mitch up at the site. And of me, a contributor there. So unless I am really good at changing my DNA it would be a hard one to pull off…but they’re making enormous strides with stem cells…
dakine01 @ 130
Yeah, I’m from Covington. The transformation of Northern Kentucky from strong D to unbelievably strong R over the last 15 years is a testament to the organizing power of the religious right. There is still a sizeable D registration advantage in the District, but Rs consistently perform at 65% and above. I can remember back to when the general election was an afterthought, and all the play was in the primary, for local elections in Northern KY — it was the case even in the late eighties, early nineties. Now we’re building the world’s largest creationist museum.
The Nick Clooney loss still hurts. Such a decent man, especially in comparison to Geoff Davis. What a twit.
Cliff Schecter @ 131
In this case, I think it would be Dem cells.
Eli @ 135
Well said my friend :)
If more schools taught creationism there would be far fewer mass shootings. A lot more stonings and burnings, but far fewer shootings.
-GSD
Dave Meyer @ 134
I came of age during that period. Graduated HS in ‘70 and cast my first vote in congressional primary that year for John Watts. That’s when harrison Co was part of 6th CD (central KY – now Ben Chandler and formerly Fletcher’s)
“organizing power of the religious right”
Similar to what happened in Kansas I guess.
Things seem to be slippin a bit for the religious right in Kansas- and it’s a bit dangerous for goopers to be too closely tied to these people. Part of the reason, perhaps, why Rove shook the reins of the texas gooper party from their hot little hands when clusterfuck turned political.
GSD @ 137
Stones don’t kill people. People do.
From the Nation, on Yarmuth’s victory and what it meant strategically for the Dems:
GSD @ 137
ROTFLMAO
Dave Meyer @ 141
If you could put that to music, it would be the Blue America theme song!
Dave Meyer @ 141
Amen. In my new state we have a guy like that too, named Sherrod Brown. Pro-choice, anti-war, for gay marriage (I think) and for some gun control. As you can see, he also got his clock cleaned.
Tangentially on topic
For Howie
Chris Carney used to work for Douglas Feith
john in sacramento @ 145
I know. He gave me a good song-and-dance about that too. By the way, I hope everyone remembers Eric Massa, one of our great Fightin’ Dem candidates from last year. He nearly beat rubber stamp Republican Shotgun Randy Kuhl (NY-29) and he’s challenging him again next year. Eric will be our guest next week. I had a great talk with him about the perfidy of Chris Carney; their districts border each other. I think you’ll like what Eric had to say about Carney’s behavior. Also coming up in the next few weeks: Rep. Joe Sestak, Rep. Tom Allen (who is battling Susan Collins/Lieberman), Ellen Simon (AZ-01) and… ANGIE!
rwcole @ 138
Actually, the KY organizing happened much later than Kansas. Ralph Reed and the Christian Coalition sent advisers to the region in the early nineties, and they organized some vicious under-the-table organizing campaigns. Here’s how he described his strategy at the time:
It worked to a T. They were able to radicalize the Catholic Right to Life organizations, splitting what had been the Dem base, then organize the evangelical emigrants from across the river, exurbanites fleeing Cincinnati. They took over quickly.
howieklein @ 146
You do get the good ones Howie. Sorry you got stuck with me today :)
Cliff Schecter @ 146
I don’t see anyone complainin’.
Eli @ 149
Thanks my friend. Just kiddin and doin a bit of self depracatin…
GSD @ 137
Did you see the stoning over at C&L?
Cliff Schecter @ 148
I wish everyone was as well-informed, entertaining and fluent as you are, Cliff and I’m sure I speak for the whole community in saying we wish you’d come by more often.
Another OT gem.
Clarence Thomas, the dimwitted bitter conservative on the Supreme Court hasn’t asked a question out loud at the court since sometime in 2006.
Why ask a question when he can just look over at Scalias’ notes?
Clarence Thomas, total dick.
-GSD
P.S. MCornhole, err, McConnell looks like that horrible talking doll Mrs. Beasely.
howieklein @ 152
You are too kind Howie. But how about this, when I finish by book manuscript on June 1, and can stop putting in insane days, I PROMISE to be around here more often…
Oh, Cliff — we are very happy to have you here today, and not just because of the little downtime my debit card gets between Howie’s irresistible appeals and extraordinary candidates. It’s great to hear from someone who knows the ground game in a state like Kentucky, and to have these grassroots activists join us for the chat as well.
Thanks to you and to Howie for a swell BlueAmerica Saturday!
Cliff Schecter @ 153
Sheesh, what a love fest. I’m going to tell your wife, Cliff.
Stonings– and people turned into salt pillars.
howieklein @ 152
Shore ’nuff!!
Loo Hoo. @ 151
Yeah.
Bush and the neo-con gangsters pried the lid off of the brutality bin when they launched their shock and awe shitstorm in Iraq.
Now all of the fanatics and monsters have been given free reign…..It’s just horrible.
-GSD
TeddySanFran @ 155
My pleasure Teddy. And thanks for the compliment. Kentucky happens to be one of about five or six states I have worked in politically and know at least somewhat well, so when these opportunities come up, and I feel I can be helpful, I feel like it is just something I have to do.
We all have to do our little part.
Cliff Schecter @ 154
book? what book? I hope it isn’t about Paris Hilton or someone like that
By the way.
Welcome Cliff and Howie.
-GSD
Dave Meyer @ 156
Well, for myself, I always like talking about Kentucky; hell, even the idiots from Kentucky. After all, they’re OUR idiots (speaking as a native living away but most likely to return sometime down the road aways.)
Dave Meyer @ 156
Hey Dave – I got the little boy on my lap right now and am being a good dad. Besides I am not a Republican, so I don’t have good access to all the good massage-giving hookers.
howieklein @ 151
Hear! Hear! :D
Cliff Schecter @ 142
brown didn’t vote for reid-feingold this week. do you know why?
howieklein @ 161
Nah, someone dirtier than her. A guy I think you have heard of, John McCain. There will be some Paris Hilton jokes in the book, and others, but mostly we dispel the myths that surround Mr. McCain. Due out in September through PoliPoint Press, if anyone is interested…I’ll keep you updated.
selise @ 166
I think he might have been absent for personal reasons. But not sure. Would have to check.
Cliff Schecter @ 167
And a sequel on Giuliani I hope. Good luck with your book, hope you will be coming here to Book Salon, if that’s good with the powers that be.
Cliff Schecter @ 168
Daughter graduating from college, if I have the right guy.
Cliff Schecter @ 166 –
thanks cliff, i hope so…. i’m a little suspicious after his vote for the MCA.
Cliff Schecter @ 163
I was just teasing. You’ve been incredible on KY Cliff, and all of us natives appreciate it deeply.
As for the massages, I don’t think you should make light of those who have stress issues. Leading a double life can be quite difficult.
egregious @ 169
Would love to if they’ll have me. And if the McCain one goes well, as I am expecting and hoping, Giuliani would be a lot of fun too…or Fred Thompson perhaps.
Thanks Cliff, Howie, and GSD.
Cliff Schecter @ 168
I think I saw where he was at daughter’s college graduation but may be mistaken.
Groundswell of support for a Book Salon appearance by author Schecter this fall!
Cliff Schecter @ 165
yes, please do keep us updated. good luck with it!
Dave Meyer @ 172
Thanks Dave. I appreciate it. Again, just doing what I can. As for the massages, those I do prefer not to pay DC Madames for. But hey, that’s just me.
And BTW you have also been fantastic on this Dave. Thanks for joining here, with your encyclopedic knowledge of KY.
Siun is upstairs chatting about dinosaurs.
I appreciate all the compliments guys. I will definitely keep you updated on the book. And hope to be here for Book Salon. Keep on fighting the good fight.
I think we are about up. And I got a little baby crying here I need to make silly faces at…So, thanks so much to Howie and the FDL community. I really appreciate this chance to be here.
Now onto victory for Beshear on Tuesday. Don’t forget to contact every Kentucky Dem you know!
Cliff
By the way Cliff, your new state is also my new state (Columbus, OH, as of 12/31/2005).
There’s quite a few of us Buckeyes on this blog. (Buckeye = a useless nut, according to the dictionary.)
Thank you Cliff!
Come back real soon.
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 181
Hopefully I catch you at a Drinking Liberally one of these days my friend!
Thanks Cliff and Howie and Dave as well!
Cliff Schecter @ 177
And Dave, extending the invitation. Please keep us updated about the goings-on in the race…or just hang out anytime. :)
Thanks again guys! I enjoy these things so much I have a hard time leaving. So I had better just head on off in to the sunset…Take care my friends!
Thanks for coming by and hipping us to the race in Kentucky, Cliff– and you too Dave and DitchMitch. Good luck Tuesday.
Cliff Schecter @ 183
Would that be at Byrne’s Pub?
One more thing. I wouldn’t be a good blogger if I didn’t at least plug my blog at the end. So please all come by and visit at cliffschecter.blogspot.com
We’d love to have you!
Hey KYers, don’t be shy about returning, and please let us know what’s happened on Tuesday nite! Best of luck, and thanks to Howie and Cliff….
thank you cliff and howie! and dave too!
A pretty amusing read of the woes concerning Ky Gov Fletcher, and one kicker is that Fletcher’s had to promise he won’t pardon himself
Republican Meltdown in Kentucky
Something not in that link, but it shows how slimey Fletcher is, in that after pre-emptively pardoning a number of aides on misdemeanor charges, and after talking them up as real “salt of the earth” types, Fletcher fired them afterwards with no warning whatsoever
And Howie, you had a pretty lively read on Fletcher as well, and boy, the overtones with the purge & cover-up scandal over the fired US Attorneys sure come out with your post as well-Dems being sacrificed to a political patronage system of what was supposed to be as politics-free as possible-is almost too perfect in its timeliness
Also thanks all. If anyone wants to reach me, I can be contacted here:
Edit: looks like images are disabled. I can be reached at davemeyer at gmail
Thanks Dave!
Nice to meet you!
I was a Miller/Maze supporter, but I’ll vote Beshears now. He has no GOTV or ad effort in Western KY though.
Dave Meyer @ 172
heh, heh!
KingCranky @ 191
Hi King Cranky,
Welcome and thanks for the links. :)
I live in Louisville, KY. Thanks for the great post. I’ve just emailed it to friends & family asking them to pass it on.
I think a lot of Kentucky voters are confused about Lunsford because he has Grady Stumbo running with him as his Lt. Governor. For those not familiar with Kentucky politics Stumbo is the current Atty. General who pursued our current Governor, Ernie Fletcher, on charges of evading the merit system law to hire political cronies. The average voter in Kentucky won’t think Stumbo is in cahoots with the Republicans because of his dogged pursuit of Fletcher.