This AP photo of the nearly complete US embassy in Iraq, reported to be the largest embassy in the world, reminded me of a conversation I had recently on a flight to the midwest. I was fortunate to sit next to a young National Guard Airman just returning from a tour in Iraq. He was a very decent fellow, and we had a long chat.
I won’t go into details about who he is or what his specific job was in Iraq, because I didn’t tell him I might write about the conversation, let alone on Firedoglake, and we had a fairly candid conversation. He wanted to talk. And the conversation brought home some realities that are often lost in the discussion about troop withdrawals, timetables, benchmarks and levels of violence.
Back to the AP story about the embassy. Why, you might ask, would we need to build this:
The $592 million embassy occupies a chunk of prime real estate two-thirds the size of Washington’s National Mall, with desk space for about 1,000 people behind high, blast-resistant walls. The compound is a symbol both of how much the United States has invested in Iraq and how the circumstances of its involvement are changing.
The embassy is one of the few major projects the administration has undertaken in Iraq that is on schedule and within budget. Still, not all has gone according to plan.
The 21-building complex on the Tigris River was envisioned three years ago partly as a headquarters for the democratic expansion in the Middle East that President Bush identified as the organizing principle for foreign policy in his second term.
My Airman friend has done three tours in Iraq so far, and he wants to go back. He’s proud of what he’s done. He’s an engineer, and engineers build things. They make things work. And they take pride in making them work and building things to last. They would understand the Bridge on the River Kwai.
If my friend is right — and this is just one anecdote from one Airman, but he’s been there three times, all over the country doing the same thing, building what he builds — we are building a huge, permanent infrastructure in Iraq. We are putting in the latest equipment, and it is not there to support some temporary military presence. What’s going up is not something to be taken down and removed when our troops withdraw or respond to some uncertain Congressional appropriation. And the facilities that are being constructed, and the way they are being linked, indicate a more or less permanent military presence.
We’re spending billions upon billions on this, and it’s not slowing down. My friend has been there three times, and each time he goes back, he marvels at the tremendous change — in how much more there is now than there was last time. Much more sophisticated; more permanent.
We did not talk much about the violence; where he worked, and what he did, did not require him to face that. He knew Iraqis but these were Iraqis who had essentially “joined us,” in the sense that once they were inside the US infrastructure, they stayed there. They were helping to building this American infrastructure in their country. Their families were there, “inside,” and no one talked about going “outside” because it was too dangerous. There are two different worlds: the Iraq we see on our televisions each night, with scores of people being blown to bits and pools of blood under devastated cars and buildings – and the American one “inside” the US infrastructure. A country within a country. America inside Iraq.
I could tell that my friend did not want to talk about the politics here, or the violence there. He gave no indication that it might all have been a waste of time, lives and money. There was no moral judgment. There was only the pride in what he had built, and the desire to go back and keep building it.



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Zed!
Zed!
[Sorry, lolo]
Mutant Poodle @ 2
Almost!!!! Arghh!!!
Scarecrow!!! You’re on Fire!!!
You’ve been busy…I can completely understand the young man’s pride, and I think it’s understandable and good.
And, if some of his work makes the Iraqis better off (in the long haul), then double good for him. Just seems like the cost (and I’m not talking dollars) is awfully high…
We’ve got this wrong. That’s not the biggest US embassy.. it’s the smallest imperial viceroy’s palace :P
CTuttle @ 5
Yikes! PUT HIM OUT!
The washington post says it isn’t big enough.
Scarecrow, thanks for the fine brace o’ posts.
Hope the straw is OK and drying nicely.
and check this out:
Besides, the Largest Embassy in the world, why not mention the 4 hardened Mega-Forts, that will constitute our Military presence in Iraq, into the distant future!!!
Mutant Poodle @ 6
I couldn’t help but be impressed by this young man — and yet feel I lived in a very different world. I don’t think what’s being built has anything to do with whether it makes the Iraqis better or worse off. They just happen to live in the country where we’ve decided to build this huge American infrastructure. Everything else is just collateral damage — and once you’re “inside” you don’t see that. Only the combat troops have to face that.
Excellent anecdote, Scarecrow, and one more indication of why communication between Iraq and the USA is slowly being squeezed off. As this infrastructure comes online, and the violence ratchets up outside, The Regime cannot and will not tolerate such a free exchange of ideas. No YouTube, no MySpace, no photographers or reporters at bombing sites, no firsthand narratives of the Embassy and its tentacles throughout the Occupied Countryside.
Best for all involved that your Airman engineer acquaintance, and the city to which you flew, remain cloaked in mystery.
the professional was proud of the torture chambers he built; he didn’t know who it was being built for, and didn’t care, he just built the best torture chambers he could…
the professional was proud of joining an organization whose entire purpose was to kill people; he didn’t know who he was going to kill, and didn’t care, he just wanted to kill the best he knew how…
*snicker*
‘professionalism’ without conscience is evil…
art guerrilla
aka ann archy
eof
CTuttle @ 12
That was part of our conversation.
I’ve known about this “EMBASY” for a while, it’s bigger then the vadican (I learned about it from my fav radio personality, randi rhodes, she’s been talking about it for over a year I believe)
once that is exposed and the real purpose the rest of bush’s house of cards fall
art guerrilla @ 15
this man did not build torture chambers, or prisons. I don’t think he could have.
I support the troops. That is, I want an end to the Iraq War now and our soldiers brought home. And to those considering enlisting, I say to you, don’t do it. Our President is a criminal. He is responsible for at least 3/4 of a million Iraqi deaths, and has sent 4,000 American soldiers to their deaths and untold of our troops are disabled as a result of his lunacy. And he lied, lied, lied to us about the reasons for attacking Iraq. This president should be in jail, awaiting trial for his crimes against men, women and children.
And to advance at State, apparently one must now serve here:
Is the embassy big enough to house oil drilling equipment?
The mods have been helping me find and fix typos. If you refresh, only the really hard to spot ones will be left. Thanks for your patience.
Scarecrow, that sounds ominous.
Is it all about the oil?
twolf1 @ 21
It’s big enough to have a refinery inside. Who says the US hasn’t built a refinery in years?
The Bridge on the River Kwai, great metaphor scarecrow.
They are already taking turns lobbing mortar rounds into the Green Zone. I’m betting that DeadEye’s US Embassy will soon resemble the Reichstag at the end of WWII.
Elliott @ 23
it’s about who profits from the oil….
but it is also about defending israel’s northern border…
and it’s about establishing land-based aircraft carriers within striking distance of the resources of central asia…
.
Elliott @ 23
Yes, and more. If you see yourself as “the last hope of western civilization,” which is what Tancredo said to applause in the debate this week, you can justify huge military/diplomatic fortications all over the world to protect the American empire. Ordinary Americans are not used to thinking in these terms, but I think our tough guy Cheney and the neocons can’t think in any other terms.
boing full twisting one and a half sommersault into the lake
evening everyone – Scarecrow, another fine post.
Suzanne @ 28
hiya suzanne!
It’s always easier, when you don’t ask yourself any hard questions.
[Sorry, but that’s my opinion]
twolf1 @ 21
probably big enoough to build a ski lodge complete with man made snow
Scarecrow @ 18
Is there a water-boarding room under the embassy?
Also, did anyone check to make sure that there isn’t a regional headquarters for ExxonMobil buried somewhere in that building?
How wonderful for the Iranians — all these spectacular facilities, ready-made for them when they overrun the country as we leave.
SnarKassandra @ 29
Suzanne always makes a splash
Scarecrow @ 16
Can we hear more about that?
The embassy is being built in accordance with an Iraq policy that has already failed. It is a white elephant, a dead embassy walking.
In this, it is rather like the increase in the size of the Army and Marine Corps, by 65,000 and 27,000 respectively. Once we are out of Iraq these troop increases will not be needed.
It would be nice if we had an Administration that based its policies on facts not fantasies but this is unlikely to happen before January 2009.
TeddySanFran @ 33
I suspect they see this effort as (1) a sign we are not leaving and (2) a provocation, designed to prevent them from taking over
Suzanne always makes a splash
That Bulgarian judge has it in for me, I tell ya.
Suzanne @ 28
Evening, Ma’am!!! Long time no see….
Scarecrow, this is in addition to the permanent bases, correct?
Well, I think Senator Clinton’s made it clear we’re staying for some time under her watch, should she be granted one.
I want Hillary Clinton to admit she blew it on voting with Bush in favor of killing the people of Iraq and our soldiers. I want this individual to admit her responsibility for the carnage she helped wrought. And to call for this illegal and immoral war to end immediately. Senator, your vote to attack Iraq was wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. You have blood on your hands. Senator, read a bit about Bobby Kennedy and his views on very bad wars. And the courage he displayed in opposing LBJ and that other illegal war (Gulf of Tonkin Resolution), the Vietnam War. Senator Clinton, your triangulating and arrogance (’if you don’t like my vote on attacking Iraq, then vote for someone else’) on this issue (Iraq) is disgusting and demeaning to this Democrat. And you Senator want to portray yourself as a friend of children. I suggest you tell that to the mothers and fathers of our soldiers and the mothers of those innocent children killed in Iraq. Frankly Senator, I’m sick to death of you crap on the Middle East.
It’s big enough to have a refinery inside. Who says the US hasn’t built a refinery in years?
I just had a discussion today about the refineries in CA that are not used or acknowledged. OMFG. What a sham.
Isn’t it in the bill that the congress was working on, or maybe the one they already sent for funding the occupation, that we WON’T build any more permanent bases?
cal @ 35
The military bases are becoming hardened and expanded. Everything you might find on a US base at home, with all the facilities, and all the links to a command structured — hardened, permanent, state of the art. but there was a hint of concern about when civilian contractors came in to run facilities build by the military/Guard engineers.
TeddySanFran @ 41
…which is why I don’t think she will be granted one.
I don’t even think she’ll get the Dem nomination.
However, that and $100,000 won’t even bribe a congressman.
Great place for the Repug RICO trial. It won’t be good for much else.
Now to read the post.
cal @ 35
He must have participated in some of the construction on at least one of them!!! Any remarks from him on Halliburton/KBR’s performance/activities???
SnarKassandra @ 9
That’s this Ryan Crocker:
http://steveaudio.blogspot.com…..-fine.html
Bastard.
Suzanne @ 40
No, it seemed to be about the permanent bases.
how would we feel when another country built a building equivalent to this ????? on our soil? the equivalent to the size of the vatican??
it would never happen.
do you comprehend what that is? the parameters of it?????
we get upset when toyota builds a car plant, couple hundred acres..
the embassy is much more intrusive in many ways than this……
what is all says is, we rule….what do we rule? what are we ruling?
all for an oil contract? my god, my god.
outrageous. i would be so pissed and outraged and defeated if i were an iraqi
i so hope they get their shit together and DON’T pass an oil trade pact and DO pass for us to leave their friggin’ country.
Why is it Bush thinks he can keep from having time lines and benchmarks or any accountability whatsoever?
Does he think the Iraqi people are as gullible as the American people? Does he think that the American people would stand for an occupation?
THAT, my friends, is the George W. Bush Memorial Library.
“There are two different worlds: the Iraq we see on our televisions each night, with scores of people being blown to bits and pools of blood under devastated cars and buildings – and the American one “inside” the US infrastructure.”
Now, given the controlled nature of our press coverage, i.e., that what we see on TV is pretty much what the guvmint wants us to see, what does this tell us? Could it be that we’re not really supposed to know about this? Otherwise, why wouldn’t news crews be treated to daily walk-throughs of our spanking-new embassy complex, paid for with our tax dollars? Obviously, that would be a much easier story to cover than the ones outside the Green Zone, with the blood and guts and all. And maybe even a happier one.
Wassupwithat?
Under a future President Clinton do you think there will be a fair settlement to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict? I don’t think so.
Rayne @ 53
That is the funniest thing I’ve read all day.
Scarecrow, so this Embassy is on the grounds of one of the permanent bases?
Elliot @ 23
Not answering for Scarecrow, but it’s been about oil from the beginning. After our 2003 Shock & Awe campaign, while Baghdad was being looted to the bone, one and only one building was secured…the Ministry of Oil. Now, 4 years later, the #1 non-negotiable benchmark that Bush is pressing on the Iraq government is the oil allotment agreement (constitution? amendment? whatever).
It’s always been about oil, from the beginning.
And our new bunker-embassy? Simply prep for the post-petro-apocalyptic ‘Road Warrior’ sequel that we’ll be living in the not too distant future.
spaghetti happens @ 54
Are there more pictures of what it looks like inside the green zone? I haven’t looked.
Suzanne, I’ve enjoyed each and every dive that you’ve done. Well done; thanks.
mhpcr @ 60
I left you a question on the end of the last thread. Did you see it?
spaghetti happens @ 54
Really good questions. Despite all the complaintst that the media don’t give us the “good” stories, this is apparently not the one the Administration wants us to see.
SteveAudio @ 56
Seem a little large for two books.
SnarKassandra @ 61
I’ll go there now.
mhpcr @ 60
Thank you :)
Scarecrow,
I don’t doubt this guy’s good intentions, and let’s hope that at least some of the 100,000 troops there are doing something good and worthwhile with their time and our billions of dollars, but the fact is that we bombed the infrastructure before we rebuilt it. We designed what we rebuilt and we did it with very little Iraqi involvement. And built it with US contractors, who got nearly all the money, leaving very little to go into the Iraqi economy, where unemployment is around 50 per cent.
It’s nice that this guy takes pride in his work, but if Iraq had a choice, don’t you think they might choose some of their people to do some of this work? Sounds like they have a real immigration problem on their hands there.
To paraphrase Jon Paul Repug from the debate, if China came over here and started building bridges, I don’t think we’d be too happy about it.
This is the math for this: It cost billions to bomb the shit out of Iraq, and billions to rebuild it to a shadow of what it was. Wouldn’t his time have been better spent fixing some of our bridges? Wouldn’t our money have gone to some good uses fixing our infrastructure?
Rayne @ 53
707!!! Why not? There’s no more fitting place, course, no one else wants to host the Worst President’s shrine!!! OT How much paperwork would reside in it??? A slim dime-book volume???
Suzanne @ 57
No, the embassy is in Baghdad, in/near the Green Zone. The large bases are outside. This man worked on the various US bases, some of which were what we call “permanent” others not so, and other facilities.
Scarecrow @ 63
Indeed, but the rest is for the playground equipment.
And the bar.
And the coca processing plant, fully functional.
Georgesimian @ 66
that makes way too much sense for these guys
SteveAudio @ 69
Don’t forget the industrial size paper shredders.
Your friend is right.
ok kiddo
and i think this one is meant to be read to someone ok kiddo
Presidential candidates:
Obama: 202-224-2854
Clinton: 202-224-4451
Edwards: 919-636-3131
Richardson: 505-982-2291
Kucinich: 877-413-3664
Gravel: 703-652-4698
OT The national average for regular gasoline today May 19, 2007 is $3.157.
The break down is as follows (50 states plus DC):
$2.90 plus 7 states
$3.00 plus 15 states
$3.10 plus 7 states
$3.20 plus 10 states
$3.30 plus 8 states
$3.40 plus 4 states
South Carolina is cheapest at $2.940.
California is most expensive at $3.457.
My bet was that the price would begin to moderate at this point due mainly to consumer anger and political pushback since the refinery squeeze, the main purported driver, is largely contrived. We should know by early next week if we are plateauing or if we are still on an upward trend. There is a lot going on here, especially if you look at what is happening now as a setup for what is likely to happen later this summer.
Scarecrow @ 63
OK, My Pet Goat and what else?
Hugh @ 74
It just hit $3 here. Today.
Suzanne @ 57
Actually, M’dear, the Green Zone Embassy is apart from the 4 Mega-Fortresses!!! *g*Suzanne @ 65
F*ck the Bulgarians!!! ;)
Mutant Poodle @ 75
No Exit
Mutant Poodle @ 75
Three histories of George Washington.
Suzanne @ 28
Is that an Olympic event?
If Hillary is the nominee and we vote for her for prez we will voting for continuing the occupation of Iraq. If we elect to vote for the Senator’s Republican opponent, we will be voting for continuing the occupation of Iraq. Some choice.
Scarecrow @ 50
Thought it was the Embassy.
Chalmers Johnson has been saying since 2003 that the US was gonna build between 5 and 14 NEW military bases in Iraq.
these would be among the most important bases in the world (outside those in afghanistan). in concert with the latter installations, these baqses were designed to be a check upon chinese energy aspirations in central asia…
we are NOT gonna leave iraq,
unless it is to build new bases in iran…
./
Scarecrow @ 78
Sartre seems a bit highbrow for him, no? I was thinking these would be books he’s actually read.
hmm… turns out jay bookman was right….
i can remembering reading this for the first time in september 2002 – it was the first time someone had proposed a reason for the coming war in iraq that didn’t seem like an obvious lie…
worth reading the whole thing again.
Loo Hoo. @ 80
No but the “GWBush Memorial (insert name here) ‘You’re doing a heckuva job’ with full reach-around” should be.
Georgesimian — yes, but I’m not trying to make a judgment about him. What I thought was interesting was the perception of a different world inside Iraq that he knew about and could describe, without making a moral judgment about it. I spend plenty of time doing that on other posts. It just struck me that this other world seems completely divorced from the US debate.
Rayne @ 53
ROFLMAO.
Scarecrow, are you from Romney Marsh?
Mutant Poodle @ 84
Do you think he got through “Fun with Dick & “Jane”
spaghetti happens @ 54
Al Jazeera doesn’t give us much either.
For a full set of the full set of renderings for this particular White Elephant, check out http://bergerdevineyaeger.com/…..bassy.html (complete illustrations of this beautiful building)
A little bit of architectural comparison:
Bucharest’s Ceaucesku Palace of the People, Romania
http://www.anchovy.durge.org/h…..os/096.jpg
Pyongyang’s Kumsumsam Memorial Palace, North Korea
http://www.theodora.com/wfb/ph…..os_19.html
…ah, the monuments of despots…
SteveAudio @ 86
Ooh – maybe it’s bald-head molesting…
Mutant Poodle @ 84
There are two versions of “No Exit” — one by Sartre; one by Cheney.
Blub @ 91
Spectacular links, thanks.
Sometimes, the best of Intel on “enemy intentions” comes thru bits and pieces and scraps of information. Anecdotal stories such as this one by Mr. Scarecrow can be far more powerful and telling than a dozen Sat photos.
It’s very clear now that Bush has absolutely no intention of vacating Iraq. Whatever his words….we’ll wait for the surge…wait till September….some benchmarks may be ok….and on and on…his words are all a fiction. Bush plays out an immaculate deception upon us all to this very day.
Good work, Mr. Scarecow. In a simple air flight conversation you amassed more real news than any of the MSM have done in 5 years. Good job; but your news is not so good. But that’s not your fault.
Ghostman
Elliott @ 89
No, I am not a sheep. You have 19 questions left.
Scarecrow @ 96
I better use them wisely!
This is one of those stories/posts that gives you a little chill, and confirms the worst quiet fears that you try to forget, the ones where the bad guys have a real plan and the money and they’re not just stubborn idiots.
The part that scares me is that the Engineer/Airman is very happy with all the work that has been accomplished, how every time he goes back he’s amazed at how much more has been built, and the scale and sophistication of the construction is incredible.
Yikes.
And yes, we’re definitely not supposed to know about this. It’s not one of the “good stories” that repubs complain we’re not getting enough of, because it’s about the permanent occupation and military presence.
Ghostman — I think you’re right about Bush/Cheney. They have no intention of ever leaving, and their reasons, whatever they are, have nothing to do with the level of violence in Iraq, or benchmarks, or democracy there or peace/stability in the ME.
Be care whom you elect President.
Be care whom you elect President.
‘we’ didn’t ‘elect’ this one…
and you’re right: we ain’t goin’ nowhere!
Why is it that the ongoing construction of these fortresses is never, ever mentioned in the “debate” on Iraq? Are our electeds unaware (and I’m not being sarcastic) of these expenditures on maintaining a permanent presence? Or do they think the public is unaware of the logical disconnect, of how hollow the fact of this American infrastrucure building makes their own posturing for for or against troop withdrawal?
Scarecrow @ 87
Well, like I said, let’s hope he’s doing a good job.
I met a guy who works as a private contractor for some intelligent service. His company is hired to spy on phone lines. (I can’t believe they are farming that out, but that’s another story.) Anyway, he thinks he’s doing his job and protecting America. And because he’s listening to this stuff all day, he thinks the Islamists are going to blow up everything all the time. I guess, at least he’s working hard.
wgg: tokin librul @ 83 –
thanks for mentioning chalmers johnson… he also has been right – since before 9/11/2001… i read his book “blowback” shortly after 911… very helpful. “the sorrows of empire” was also very good (about our worldwide permanent bases – no, it’s not just iraq)… haven’t yet read his latest, “nemesis” – but plan to. he’s a must read.
SteveAudio @ 69
I think there’s a songbook in there.
“Oh Lord, it’s hard to be humble
When you’re perfect in every way….”
Who sang that? Mac Davis?
Scarecrow @ 99
Shrub plans to torment us forever from yet another $500 million white elephant monument he plans to build for himself.. the shrub library and Institute for GW Bush Studies at SMU. Heck, he’s probably planning on running a private state dept from there, in the name of the RNC. We’ll just have to learn to ignore him… and Dallas.
Folks – the immigration arrests are going on all over the country and have been for the last few weeks. OMG
http://minnesota.publicradio.o…..migration/
OK, folks, looseheadprop challenged us to Prime the Pump. In a recent set of comments, I tried to follow up with some ideas on how to implement looseheadprop’s suggestions. Selise suggested using “wikispaces” for our workspace on developing articles of impeachment, so I have taken that suggestion and have started an impeachment wikispace for this purpose. Anyone can drop in and view what we’ve developed so far.
But more importantly, come help! The workspace also has an associated discussion page, and I believe I’ve set it up so that anyone can leave a message. If you’d like to help prime the pump, and I hope you will, let me know by leaving a message there.
Even more importantly, I’d like to invite looseheadprop, Christy, Mary4, and others to become co-editors of this workspace. In fact, I hope one of them will take on the job of being editor in chief, because they are more qualified than I am. I’m just trying to help looseheadprop implement the “Prime the pump” vision.
Let me know what you think. This will be an ongoing project until Gonzo, Cheney and the Chimpfuhrer are out of office and are no longer a threat to our Constitutional democracy.
If I’m not here, I might be over there. First to go up are Articles of Impeachment against VP Cheney, starting with the documentation provided by Rep. Kucinich.
BTW, I think wikispaces can be linked to blogs. I don’t know what that means, but I would of course love to see it linked to FDL.
Bob in HI
This fortress would be a good place for the Iraqi government when we’re out of there. I’m sure they can come up with plenty of good military men, even though somehow we have been unable to train many.
even the faculty at smu is not pleased…
i do not demean the faculty at smu…we all went through the same process.
./
JML @ 101
JML, I can’t find the linky, but Congress has voted on proposals to include text forbidding any expenditures for permanent bases.
(the proposals were defeated)
The Congress knows; readers of Counterpunch or Indymedia have known for years.
American MSM viewers don’t know.
Steve Gilliard’s talked about the monumental hubris involved in this sort of thinking — the idea that we could go into Iraq and set up permanent bases to replace the ones lost next door in Iran in 1979 when our puppet the Shah was forced into, ah, early retirement.
The Saudi-backed Sunni insurgents repeatedly show, as they did when Blair was in town yesterday, that there is no place, even in the Green Zone, that they cannot strike at will. The one thing that’s saving our asses is that the Sunnis are too busy fighting the Shiites and the Kurds to give their full attention to us.
But let Bush attack (Shiite-majority) Iran and the Shiites will rise up en masse and attack the Green Zone; meanwhile, the Sunnis, emboldened by the US’ suddenly having its hands full with the Green Zone, will attack the airport, leaving the tens of thousands of foreigners in the Green Zone in a situation nastily reminiscent of Khartoum when the Mahdi took out Gordon, or Peking during the Boxer Rebellion.
What’s worse is that same scene, in varying scales, will be replayed in hundreds of locations throughout Iraq. It will be so bad that you’ll even be seeing some extremely stupid and amoral Republican legislators call for the use of nuclear weapons to “settle things down”.
And that’s just for starters.
Blub @ 105
Well the front yard of Shrub’s ranch in Texas should become a National Cemetery, you know, kinda like the one in Robert E. Lee’s front yard.
we will long remember.
JML @ 101
The media won’t allow such talk. Not on a sustained basis.
Superbases,a monstrous embassy fortress in the heart of Baghdad and corporatists fingerprints all over the “Iraq” Oil Law point to American “presence” in Iraq being a fact for many years(decades?) to come. Would likely have made more sense to simply declare Iraq the 51st American state as that appears to be the deeper intent of BushWorld anyway.
Chalmers Johnson,author of NEMESIS:THE LAST DAYS OF THE AMERICAN REPUBLIC has a useful and pertinent article at Zmag.org in the Znet site.
It is worthy of time taken to read. Dated May 18th,2007 and titled JOHNSON/EVIL EMPIRE.
With all those billions being spent on building the world’s largest embassy in Iraq, no wonder there isn’t any money to rebuild New Orleans from the devastating hurricane Katrina, no money to rebuild Kansas from the devastating tornados.
can someone explain to me why our foreign policiy elite think these bases are a good idea?
wgg: tokin librul @ 83
Well, this apparently was the true reason for the Iraq invasion. It’s logical as a geopolitical strategy for the neocons.
And these bases are also logical targets for dramatic insurgent/Al Qaeda/whomever bomb attacks.
Margot @ 104
Mac Davis wrote it. But the hit version may have been by someone else. Kris Kristofferson? Mel Tillis?
Bob in HI
we’re still having fun with Monica in the last thread if anyone is interested (hahaha. just signed on).
selise @ 116
’cause people like shrub like building great big monuments to themselves, and, more importantly, awarding great big construction constracts to their cronies. That’s reason enough, I think.
selise @ 116
Would these be the same foreign policy elites that got us into Iraq? Because, if so, I think we have our answer…
I left you a question on the end of the last thread. Did you see it?
I’ll go there now.
You are the future; your questioning and diligence is impressive. You make my heart glad that young people are taking an interest in politics and that they have an opinion. Whatever that opinion matters to our country now and to come. Your involvement and dedication is extraordinary, and your writing skills are excellent. Calling bull may have a deeper meaning for you, as it may for most of us. Be careful, as you are so young. I give you a big kiss and hug: I have experienced some of what you have experienced, and it is painful to recognize myself in your life.
You do my heart good because you are surviving and thriving and being wonderfully brilliant. You amaze me, and I rejoice in your sucess.
The embassy in Baghdad, let alone the facilities built elsewhere, is a statement of imperial dominance. It couldn’t be read as anything else by Iraqis and visiting foreign nationals. That is surely its purpose, just as was monopolizing the “reconstruction” contracts, and what appears to be an attempt to control the national oil law. It is like Cheney and Bush lefting their legs, urinating on the city, and saying, “It’s mine”.
Had his occupation gone well, these buildings would be still be inappropriate. As it is, it is as if Mr. Bush had built the Emerald City and gifted it to the Wicked Witch. The origins of these buildings will taint any use made of them, however long they stand.
Here’s one of my favorite pieces from right before the war. 60 Minutes did a piece on the cost of reconstruction. Listen to Armitage’s twisted rationales.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories…..rchStories
I notice an employment ad on the embassy website
seeking an Iraqi resident to be an embassy driver, full time, for $4.30 an hour.
Blub @ 91
If only we can have a picture of GWB on the outside of the embassy. Preferably the Mad Magazine shot.
Bluebird @ 115
New Orleans? Why the hell do our schools have to beg to get their budgets passed? Why the hell are we cutting fire departments, police departments ,etc? Why do the Republicans want to make our Government smaller here, and bigger in Iraq? None of it makes sense.
Bob Schacht @ 107 –
i should mention that i think using wikispaces is much easier than using a wiki. sorta like wikis for the novice user – no special knowledge needed to start (recommend firefox over safari for the mac users, though).
let’s all go join bob and at least do two things:
1) click the link on the top left that says “join this space”
2) take a look around
Phoenix Woman @ 113
Any takers on a sustained effort to get someone (Hilary?) “on the record” on this topic?
Jane has a new thread ready Mr. Self Awareness
Hugh @ 74
For averages, maybe, but two gas stations near the interstate in northern Colorado this morning were pegged at $3.479 for standard unleaded.
Steve Pordon @ 131
I saw a sign for $4.0509 the other day in Socal (Shell)
Bob Schacht @ 118
No, I believe Mac did the singing as well.
earlofhuntingdon @ 123
No, no, no…everything is just ducky…they serve tea at 4:00 P.M (Baghdaaaaad time) precisely. Only a minor inconvenience that if you are fortunate enough to be considered for such illustrious employment as to spend your days occupying such a delightful building, one must merely appear suitably dressed for the occasion in the requisite flack jacket. Daytime or nighttime official attire not excepted.
Mutant Poodle @ 121
they’re a bunch of morally and intellectually bankrupt lunatics?
Loo Hoo. @ 126
One with his little boy blue shirt with the buttons askew like the one he wore when he promised to help the victims of Katrina in NOLA. I’ll bet Karen Hughes dressed him for that one.
EPU’d, but what the heck:
F*ck the Bulgarians!!! ;)
YEAH!!
I’ve never had a pleasant encounter with a Bulgarian.
ummm, but I guess I’ve never had an unpleasant one, either….
You guys know this site, right?
http://costofwar.com/
selise @ 116
It’s really only the neocons. Saudi Arabia filled the role of oil supplier and base leaser during and after the first Gulf War but it was viewed as highly unstable. The neocons looked around for an alternative, a country that was stabler that could provide a reliable source of oil and permanent bases from which American power could be projected. They thought that Iraq filled the bill perfectly. They saw it as a secular government run by a dictator. The plan was to replace Saddam with their own man, Chalabi, and moderate the worst of his excesses. The Iraqis would be better off and the neocons would get what they wanted. There was only one minor catch to the whole scheme, reality. Except for that, everything would have worked out perfectly.
PW@111, Once again, excellent point!!! There is only one corridor between Saddam International and the Green Zone, a rather lengthy and bloody one at that!!! In expanding the historical references, how about Apr. ‘75, Saigon, a similar helicopter scene is highly probable under similar deteriorated conditions!!!
Thank you Scarecrow!
except that you freaked me out.
selise @ 116
Because the guy’s with the private 737’s don’t think ‘dirty camel jockeys’ deserve to own all that oil?
Just a guess.
I think the real issue here is that the neocon paymasters have decided that we’re staying in Baghdad forever (hence the need for these bases and fortress-like monoliths), while the outside game is to convince the American people that we’re leaving just as soon as they patch up the country just a tad. This embassy is proof of the existence of an inside game very different than the “we’ll leave when we win and we will win” meme that they sell they American people.
Scarecrow,
This has been clear for a very long time–that the reason this war took place is provide a secure base for American operations in Iraq.
That the construction is continuing is no surprise.
What bothers, and has bothered me for some time, is that the presidential candidates, especially the senators, have to know about the plans for a permanent presence in an Iraq without a government.
Yet they never speak of it. They never say that these bases and the embassy exists, that it is being secured against Iraqis, and will be used as the power base for forward operations in the Middle East. I believe a lot of the early unwillingness of the candidates to say, unequivocally, that the US would leave Iraq under their presidencies. Further, I believe that even now many of them, especially Biden and Clinton, intend to determine, upon further reflection in the Oval Office that this presence will be necessary indefinitely–at about the 50,000 troop level that was the plan at the outset.
None of this is secret–yet none of it is talked about. The funds for this embassy and for the enduring bases have been voted on by these same senators. Yet none of this talked about.
One thing I hope we can do in more open communication forums that are developing is get some more citizen questions into the mix. The media won’t ask difficult questions like these.
jayackroyd @ 144
Hi jayakroyd –
See comment at #129
Are the NYers on for this?
jayackrody — I share the same concerns about the silence. Your questions should be asked of all the candidates.
Mark Twain @ 125
Benefits to include funeral costs at the going rate for a tasteful affair, no doubt.
I’m holding out hope that reality will prove stronger than the evident intentions of these dry-preserved and reconstituted imperialists.
Elliott @ 141
sorry — you should never take me seriously in the comments. ;) I had to look up the “place” and found the “sheep.”
Scarecrow @ 146
YES, YES, YES, AND YES!!!!!
Hugh @ 139
that darn reality.
can we please get a new foreign policy elite who can at least recognize reality? the ability to think things through would be nice too. oh, and tell the truth… that would be an improvement.
it’s so depressing to realize the the people with poltical authority are a bunch of blithering idiots.
JML @ 101
A very simple answer–the MIC (Military-Industrial Complex).
It gets 40 cents of every tax dollar.
It’s like that plant in “Little Shop of Horrors” that constantly cries “Feed Me!”
Until we address that beast, little will change.
Bush is such an idiot. What a waste of money when the avearge Amefican can barely make their mortgage, or rent, payments.
OZYMANDIAS
I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
Half sunk, a shatter’d visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamp’d on these lifeless things,
The hand that mock’d them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
“My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!”
Nothing beside remains: round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
Yow! No “decent B&B’s”? Wha happen? Somebody in charge screwed up if there’s no room for Pickles to do some easy shopping?
earlofhuntingdon @ 123
Well put.
Remember that in the first draft of Ike’s speech, he referred to the “Military-Industrial-Congressional” complex.
He knew that without Congress, there would be no taxpayer-funded monies for the military and its govt contractors to put to such good use.
Scarecrow @ 148
I thought perhaps you were the Scarecrow of Romney Marsh ;)
and it was your post that freaked me out!
I just feel that there’s so much in motion that we are not aware of, but from which we will suffer the consequences. Millions, maybe billions, will suffer the consequences of these martial machinations. Guess I’m fashioning a tin foil hat for myself here, but I’ve no trust left for these guys. (as if I’m alone in that)
Bob Schacht @ 107
Bob, it said my username is too long even though it is the same as here.
Gunga Djinn @ 30
Aren’t moral judgements what is most lacking about Iraq? Morality was clearly the last thing on President Bush’s mind when he ordered the invasion and occupation.
And the American people aren’t being asked to think about the morality of this murderous fiasco. Similarly, we’re deliberately not being told about the permanance of our occupation. On the contrary, the administration goes out of it’s way to pretend that they don’t intend to stay a day longer than is necessary.
Loo Hoo. @ 157
wikispaces and wordpress have different rules. but loo hoo isn’t too long…. maybe try it without the space?
The embassy is an important fact Scarecrow – thanks for reminding folks of it!
Loo Hoo. @ 52
He has gotten away with everything so far, and we are already occupying, but no one calls it that (except here). Part of it was the exploitation of the nine eleven shock. Who has said so much as ‘booh’? Not many. It is really interesting why that is. Meanwhile, a culture of hatred, crudeness and lack of civility came to rule public dialogue. This is a time not of revolt, but of authoritarianism. A time which requires tedious slow detailled chipping away at the lies, again and again and then some more. (see Richard Tarnac, Cosmos and Psyche). Ok, philosophy off.
Phoenix Woman @ 111
Looks like US equipment can still leave through Basra…
if Iran says OK.
All large cities are built over (or contain) massive underground sewer systems. I’ve seen some of the older structures in a couple of the largest US cities. They are incredibly complex and all encompassing.
I don’t doubt for a minute that Baghdad has similar structures.
In short, things things could be blown up in a spectacular fashion. Plans are probably already in the works to do just that for a couple of places. Of course, Iraq would probably want to keep some for future use.
They should make some space in that big new embassy for the George W. Bush Presidential Library because that’s where it belongs. When the US comes to liberate your country, the problem is they never leave. Like a big elephant that comes to visit and breaks all your furniture, so it goes go out and buys you big elephant sized furniture to make up for it, but it is always stuff that is too big and much more suited for the elephant and a few of the natives that want desperately for somewhere to sit so not to make the elephant nervous.
OK @ 158
That snip I used in #30 was from Scarecrow up top. But yes, I agree with you. Too many people not asking questions of themeselves or others, for whatever reasons.
[I had a similar experience to Scarecrow’s, flying back from Europe seated next to an oil rig fire fighter after Gulf War I. He was a nice enough guy, and was thoroughly rich after doing two “tours of duty” in Kuwait for some outfit like Haliburton. Proud of what he had accomplished, and giddy over the fact that he could retire now at about age 40.]
It all works, as long as you don’t ask any questions.
Questions for anyone:
Are the oil fields still productive in Bush-war Iraq?
Who is getting the money?
Where is it going?
“And the facilities that are being constructed, and the way they are being linked, indicate a more or less permanent military presence.”
anybody who hears about this building knows Bushco will use it as a “permanent military presence.”
they did not count on losing the November elections and having this come to light. do you really think the war mongering, power hungry, greedy neo-cons would get this close to all that ‘Black Gold’ and then have to give it up?
SnarKassandra @ 11
Idiots. Do they really think that the plans for the entire complex haven’t been sold to al Qaeda and the Mahdi Army months ago? Just how do our forces expect to protect such high-value targets from mortar attacks?
The embassy is a probable white elephant. An absurdity ,given the green light soon after Saddam’s fall and continued to completion mostly because of inertia one might suppose. Someday the Green Zone will be over run, it seems almost certain. That will make the fall of Saigon look like a picnic.
However it is the four of five giant bases which are the big deal. They are primarily air bases. When they were being built a not insignificant portion of all the worlds cement was going into them. Multiple square miles of foot deep concrete.
The bases are huge and remote, with easily defended perimeters. Self contained in as much as all supplies can be flown in, which is the point. Also the point is, from them we can project our air power anywhere in the region. Ground troops too to a lesser degree. Large stores of ground equipment as well can be stored there.
The bases are a huge logistical acheivement. An unmatched foothold with military implications reaching as far as China. To boot they are totally unfettered by any host country meddling or limits. They are like little Americas.
There is no way we are going to withdraw from them, period. Establishing large forward bases in the Gulf was one of the prime reasons for the invasion and there is no way we will ever give them up, till the oil runs out. No politican with real decision making power would ever have the guts to abandon them. That’s just the way the world works and everyone here probably knows it in their guts.
The fighting and the nation building and the counter insurgendy are in a certain sense just a diversion. The bases are the big enchalda.
Suzanne @ 28
Pretty low degree of difficulty. Is that all you got?
A country within a country. America inside Iraq.
Well, if you didn’t expect us to colonize them, how did you think we would take all of their oil? Did you think they would just GIVE it to us? Colonization was clearly the plan all along. Once the House of Saud kicked our troops out of their country, we needed somewhere else over there to park our air force. We can’t trust Israel, and nobody else trusted us.
I think that this whole charade would have been much better recieved by Americans if we had just announced 6 years ago that we were invading Iraq to take their oil, and that we were going to kill a lot of Iraquis to do it, but, hey, fuck them. They don’t have Escalades and we do, so we need their oil more than they do.
Bush’s mistake in pushing this war was that he failed to make the direct appeal to American materialism. If they had just announced upfront that this was about oil and empire, there still would have been outrage, but if they made it past the first six months they could have justified staying as long as it took. The brits stayed in india for what, 50 years after the Indians made it pretty clear that they were no longer welcome…
I remain convinced that if Bush and Wolfie and Feith had just said, “Fuck all this terrorism shit, we’re annexing Iraq. We’ll nuke you if you try to stop us.” and then made the case for why Peak Oil leaves us with no other choice, they’d be looking at 60% approval ratings now. Yes, the war is immoral and wrong, but a whole lot of Americans would be willing to overlook that if it meant they could fill their tank with unleaded for less than $30.
I was thinking that fortresses became obsolete in feudal times but I guess the previous comment about self contained concrete encampments knocks that out. Still, how long can you maintain these kind of bases when surrounded by a thousands of people who loathe you.
Mutant Poodle @ 75
A complete set of Girls Gone Wild DVDs?
rapier @ 169
Perfect strategy
for a world without surface to air missles.
Did the Russians believe their Afghan bases were impregnable….
….before we distributed Stingers?
Our Stingers now menace global civil aviation, and SAM’s fly over Iraq.
Our airborne warriors fall.
Blowback squared.
Blub @ 132
go see the gas temp map at gasbuddy.com:
http://www.gasbuddy.com/gb_gastemperaturemap.aspx
I’ve been keeping track for a couple of weeks, here:
http://tekel.wordpress.com/200…..he-nation/
Well, I hope the engineer didn’t forget to install an escape hatch to the rooftop so when the inevitable moment arrives, the 1000 or so fortress Americana tenants will not be hard pressed to make a quick exit by way of the ubiquitous whirlybird.
This is about colonization of the whole fucking world. These folks do think big.
I’ve been told directly a military officer that we have a “lifetime” plan in Iraq–not a 10-year or a 20-year. A “lifetime.”
Orwell had his faults, but everyone should read his brilliant essay “Politics and the English Language.” He notes that an insidious thing in political speech is the use of weasel words and cotton batting phrases intended to steer minds away from brutal reality, to sugar-coat it by disguising it with vagueness and jargon. Like saying “collateral damage” instead of “accidentally killing civilians.”
BushCo get grumpy enough when you talk about the “occupation” of Iraq. Too harsh a phrase. “Helping out” might be better, mmkay? But maybe it would focus minds better if we used the more accurate term, no matter how much it pisses off Cheney: CONQUEST
That is what we did. We conquered Iraq. The sooner we understand that, the sooner we can figure out just what the fuck to do next.
Meanwhile, it is hard to notice since the Press doesn’t really seem that interested in Iraq now, but attacks on the Green Zone are now a daily occurrence.
Whatever we plan to do is rapidly becoming irrelevant.
1. dmac got it right; as did some others who commented on the basic ethical aspects whose immoral premises are often unchallenged (even among pwogwessives)…
2. you missed both my general and specific points in this regard, and took me too literallly with respect to this one soldier…
A. given the scant info (’engineer’), it is impossible to make a judgment as to whether THIS soldier’s particular contribution is a net plus or minus for the iraqi’s (or us)…
(maybe he builds hospitals for the iraqi babies we’ve blown up, that would be nice, wouldn’t it ? awwwww ) *snicker*
B. *EVEN IF* we had more info, that doesn’t mean that the ‘innocent’ motor pools, steno pools, or swimming pools our heroic engineer is building (in another peoples’ country against their will, but no matter, no moral quandry there), are not used directly or indirectly for the continued occupation/oppression of the iraqis… in fact, their mere EXISTENCE is an offense against them…
(as you seem willing to entertain, yet refuse to see the connection to this one soldier’s moral choices… how uncomfortable for you to be so inconsistent…)
C. *REGARDLESS* of whether he is building torture chambers literally or not, he IS a willing -even enthusiastic- participant in an organization whose job is to kill/destroy the enemy… he *could* have chosen to join the peace corps, he didn’t, he wanted to ’serve his country’ by helping destroy others (but no moral quandry there; keep moving, sheeple, avert your gaze)…
3. which leads to the overall point that -given your overweening sycophancy to *this* soldier- you demonstrated the all too easy, all too safe, all too insidious meme of assuming militarism is a-okay, gi joe; and that all these brave young (innocent) trained killers are due an automatic respect for CHOOSING to kill people in service to The State…
(in this case, it is compounded by the fact that it is an unjust, illegal, and immoral war; but the point obtains otherwise as well…)
even self-defined prwogwessives are all too eager to jump on the ‘we support our troops’ (which essentially means ‘The Military’) bandwagon, and to trump repugs with their bellicosity and sabre rattling…
disgusting…
militarism is the problem, NOT the solution…
art guerrilla
aka ann archy
eof
I’m so glad to hear your friend feels “pride” in the illegal occupation of another country in which he has no business being. I’m glad he feels “pride” in destroying other human beings’ lifestyle and being an accomplice in the destruction of their country and their people.
Perhaps he could feel pride in building something in the U.S….such as peace and democracy?
Give me a break.
Maybe when dub’ya says we can’t leave . . . we can’t. All those WMD’s Saddam didn’t have, we’ve imported.
The Grand Emperor Dub’ya has essentially laid stake to and established a middle-east ground zero.
Thanx dumbo.
Airman,
Appreciate your honesty . . . but honestly, the Gulf Coast could use a good builder.
the airman is proud to be engaged in the rape of iraq!? america is toast.
peas!
This information appalls me, all over again. Thank you, Scarecrow, for telling it like it is, as a result of your chance firsthand encounter with an eyewitness.
Congress, stop lying to us, PLEASE. You MUST know that this is what America is doing in and to Iraq.
If Members of Congress told Americans we were turning Iraq into our permanent property, in every way but name, and there was nothing they could or were willing to try to do to prevent it, at least we could stop the fraud of pretending we have the remotest resemblance left to the nation our Founders forged. We would have to face the fact that we are brutal American Empire oppressors of the first order, in the name of all that is corporate wealth. That at least would be confronting reality as it is, not as Hollywood and John Wayne would have it, or as the American Constitution once defined our role to be.
Corporations Uber Alles.
zhiv @ 98
In the end, your engineer will be equally professional about drilling holes in the right places, filling them with C4, and blowing the installations up to keep the Iraqis or Iranians from getting them.
How can the mighty American empire dominate anything after it has so totally and publicly fucked up in Iraq?
No, it’s the old road crew scam. The first set of workers digs holes, the second set fills them up. Endlessly recycling work, and the contractor gets rich. Apart from its vast scale, this is a very small-time scam.
Bring it On! Blog Archive Bush Administration to Iraq: “We’re here to stay, bitches!” @ 180
NO.
You spend $592 million and more when you want to put that amount of public money in your friends’ pockets, far from curious home-town busybodies who might notice all the graft if it were going on under their noses.
These people are not smart. They’re running ancient scams.