
Looseheadprop offered some thoughts this morning on the importance of next Wednesday's no confidence vote in the Senate. As she says, the point of the "meaningless political stunt" is to test whether we have the votes to impeach Gonzales. We need 66 votes, but with Joementum in our caucus and Senator Johnson still recuperating, that means we're looking for 18 votes from Republicans on Wednesday, assuming the rest of our caucus remains loyal (hopefully, the Blue Dogs will look at the way Gonzales and Bush used and abused Pryor's bipartisan good faith, and think seriously about supporting the no confidence vote). A formidable task, certainly. But when you consider how many Republicans have already voiced their disapproval of Gonzales, are hopelessly implicated in the USA Scandal, or are up for a tough re-election in 2008, we've got plenty to work with.
Unfortunately, Senator "Colonize Your Womb for the Fatherland," Coburn, has already backed off his tough statements on Gonzales, saying that while he thinks Gonzales should resign, he would vote against a no confidence vote. I guess we know how valuable Coburn's tough talk really is.
In the meantime, here are my evolving thoughts of who, in the Republican caucus, might be persuaded to use the no confidence vote as a graceful way to escort Gonzales out of the Justice Department.
Republicans Calling for Gonzales to Leave
First, there are those Republicans who have already called for Gonzales to step down, but have not yet–like Coburn–recanted their tough talk (this list is basd on TPMM's own list along with Bond who came out against Gonzales in the interim).
Sen. Norm Coleman (R-MN): Coleman is up for a tough re-election fight, after having given the collosally incompetent Rachel Paulose the green light. Since Rove–who is the guy who usually coaxes discipline out of Norm–isn't that crazy about Gonzales staying, I'd count Norm as a possible yes no confidence.
Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE): Chuck Hagel wants his party back–or, more likely, to run as a third party candidate to make it act more sanely. I'm guessing him as a yes on no confidence.
Sen. John McCain (R-AZ): Ah, John McCain, the "Maverick." If he votes, he'll vote yes for no confidence, and go whichever way the wind blows on impeachment, I think. Though he ought to be susceptible to pressure on account of the fact that BushCo told McCain and Kyl to fuck off regarding their one choice for USA to replace Charlton. But since McCain doesn't actually, you know, vote anymore, we probably can't rely on him.
Sen. Pat Roberts (R-KS): Given his statements, Roberts might vote yes on no confidence, but he's more likely to follow Coburn's cowardly example and vote no. Further, he's in Bush's back pocket and susceptible to his own implication in some of BushCo's crimes. Roberts is up for re-election in 2008, but Kansas has not been impacted by the USA Scandal, which would make it hard to pressure him.
Sen. John Sununu (R-NH): It'll be a tough, tough re-election fight for Sununu in 2008, particularly without the benefit of phone-jamming to lower turnout. So I think Sununu might vote yes on no confidence. And if he balks, his pro-civil liberties constituents ought to point out that Gonzales was responsible for implementing an illegal extension to the domestic spying program.
Sen. Gordon Smith (R-OR): Smith, like Sununu, has a really tough re-election fight in 2008. So he might vote yes on no confidence.
Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL): Normally, I'd say Sessions would do whatever Bush told him to do (indeed, at one point he was getting talking points from DOJ on this matter). But he is a former USA. Also, one of Alabama's USAs was on the firing list at one point, though perhaps for cause (he was being investigated internally). I say he might vote yes on no confidence, though he'd follow the prevailing wind on impeachment.
Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC): Someone who has called for Gonzales' resignation, often believes in the rule of law, and sometime cares about civil liberties, he may vote yes on no confidence.
Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA): Specter will water down the no confidence language, then vote yes on it. But, since Specter has never met a courageous decision he didn't run from, he'll almost certainly vote "present" or "Scottish Haggis" or some such nonsense on impeachment.
Bond: Missouri is knee-deep in the USA scandal, and we know BushCo overrode Bond's wishes when he asked for Todd Graves to be kept on long enough to finish some cases. Yesterday, Bond said "The president might decide that the current leadership remaining at DOJ is doing more harm than good." And Bond is very close to John Ashcroft who, as it turns out, was 10 times the AG that Gonzales is. He might be persuaded to vote yes on no confidence, though he'll be much tougher to sell on a vote for impeachment.
Moderates and Reality-Based Conservatives
While these guys have so far refrained from telling Gonzales to go, they are also the Senators who, from time to time, exhibit some independence or rationality. Who knows? We might pick up some of these votes.
Grassley: Grassley, in particular, has been outspoken against Gonzales on the SJC committee (his Sampson questions were the ones interrupted by Republican attempt to shut down the Sampson hearing).
Snowe, Collins: Maine's USA was on the firing list at one point–making ME's Senators persuadable. Collins, who has a real challenge in 2008, is most likely to vote yes on a no confidence vote, though she'd surely do the partisan thing if it came to impeachment anytime soon.
Gregg: Another Republican in an increasingly blue state, he might vote yes on no confidence because of NH's fondness for civil liberties.
Alexander: Sometimes does the rational thing.
Warner: Sometimes does the rational thing, plus is retiring, so he doesn't owe anyone any favors.
Lugar: Sometimes does the rational thing. And heck–if they're really talking about sending him to the World Bank, he would have a good deal of freedom himself.
Murkowski: AK is a special case, since BushCo refused both Murkowski's and Stevens' choice for USA. Turns out an immediate family member of both (daddy in Murkowski's case, son in Stevens') may be implicated in the AK-sized Republican corruption in AK, so Murkowski may vote yes on both to avoid any scandal taint.
Voinovich: Voinovich should be on a list of possible yes votes on both.
Nutcase Republicans Implicated in the Scandal
Then there are the nutcases and Koolaid drinkers. While I don't expect these guys to vote yes on a no confidence vote, they might think more seriously about it if constituents reminded them how implicated the scandal they are. And if not, it'd be fun to keep reminding them of it.
Domenici: Faces real ethical and legal problems because of his involvement. Normally, he'd do whatever BushCo told him to do, but he might vote yes on both to avoid looking like he's scared. Particularly with a re-election bid coming up.
Stevens: As I said, Stevens' son is involved in an AK-sized corruption scandal. Stevens's choice was ignored for USA last year, in what would have been a timely USA appoint to fix Ben's scandal. Plus, Stevens is up for re-election. Probable no votes, but you never know.
Kyl: Kyl has expressed mixed feelings about Charlton's firing. And BushCo rejected Kyl's and McCain's one choice for USA. For both of those reasons, Kyl ought to be reminded that his actions–and Gonzales' actions–have hurt AZ and hurt Senatorial privilege.
Ensign: Ensign was pretty pissed about the way Bogden was treated. I think he could–and should–be pressured to vote yes on both no confidence and impeachment.
Anyway, as I said, it's a formidable task to move any of these Republicans by Wednesday. But if you happen to be one of their constituents, you might call them and emphasize how badly Bush screwed your state over with his USA Purge shenanigans. And in case your Republican Senator actually believes in civil liberties, you might stress
that Gonzales tried to gut our civil liberties at the expense of a good Christian lying in the ICU.



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ZeD☼
Hi EW!
Nice idea, but I really doubt the Democrats would support a no confidence vote. After all, 19 Democrats switched over last week to the Republican side just to defeat the fairly weak Feingold-Reid bill on Iraq. As long as the Democrats aren’t united, I doubt we’ll see many Republicans willing to cross the line.
Marcy!
Haggis !!
As with anything republican…its not what they say its what they do. Betchya the Fredo Bushco strongarmers are already using tactics to keep them all in line if a vote of no confidence even makes it to the floor.
Thanks, Marcy, for all you do!
Hi emptywheel!
e.w., not sure about the JWarner-retiring part; he’s kicked the decision to September and hasn’t raised much money, but that’s viewed as keeping Allen outta the race should he retire. Have you some new info on Warner? Because a retiring Warner would be a powerful vote (and persuader) on not only Abu but the war.
Emptywheel!
(haggis?…Bwahaha)
As I mentioned in comments at Marcy’s cross-post at The Next Hurrah:
If one of these folks is your Senator, use their status as an incumbent candidate as leverage to request their compliance with the public’s need for truly blind justice.
DiFi has connections and relationships with lotsa GOPers on your list. Schumer getting her on board with this was very smart; there are GOPers who won’t give Chuck the time of day who have a lot of respect for DiFi (and Mr. Blum’s $$)
Marcie,
Good analysis, but I think you are overly optimistic in hoping that we can get that many GOP Senators to vote the right way on the ‘no confidence’ resolution.
In the end, the Republicans always circle the wagons and do what is politically expedient. They are tribal, first and foremost. We aren’t going to get them to cross the line until the political downside of supporting Gonzales is greater than the alternative.
I’d prefer that the Democrats wait awhile until even more incriminating material about what transpired in the Justice Department is revealed.
Marcy! have been compiling and refining questions to suggest to John Conyers. The hearing is Wednesday. Would like to send them by Monday morning latest (maybe the main set tomorrow). Have you seen them over at my place?
First things first. Do we even have the 60 votes to get it to the floor for a vote.
Well, I’ll call Voinovich and Brown on Monday.
This week I talked to Brown’s office asking why he didn’t vote on Feingold’s amendment — turns out his daughter was graduating from college that day…sigh.
Marcy, you don’t really think the Republicans are suddenly going to grow backbones, do you? Maybe Hagel and Sununu plus a few others who have reelections coming up, but 18? No way. We’ll see a lot of backpedaling like that jellyfish Coburn – think Specter and NSA.
global yokel @ 13
Yes… but what’s politically expedient for GOP Senators may no longer be what’s politically expedient for BushCo and Abu. More importantly, GOP Senators may see — and act on — this fact of life.
TiredFed @ 14
Strongly urge you to send an early draft of them NOW which you can update later. Give them time to read, think, and process. Not everyone is Marcy :)
Missing word?
“… they might think more seriously about it if constituents reminded them how implicated [IN] the scandal they are.”
I have to admit that I’m quite curious as to how all of this is going to play out. Gonzo needs to go, but I’m still not convinced the Dems have the spine to finally put a fork in him. He’s clearly the key player in Rove’s voter suppression scheme, and they want him in place in 2008 for the elections. There are two big problems with this plan, though. First of all, everyone now knows that this is the plan, which is going to make it vastly harder to implement. Second of all, this had to have been the same plan for the 2006 election, and things didn’t go very well for Team Rove during that one.
So if you’re a Republican Senator, what do you do at this point? On the one hand, you obviously don’t want black people to vote, but on the other hand, you don’t want to be caught trying to suppress the black vote. It’s one thing to be a wink-wink-nudge-nudge racist, but it’s quite another to be a caught-red-handed racist. You also have to factor in the fact that there are probably several more Gonzales scandals in the wings. (When your defense against a perjury charge is, “I was talking about a TOTALLY DIFFERENT illegal program,” you probably shouldn’t be speaking as the nation’s top law enforcement officer.) I suspect that quite a few Senators are hoping that Bush just hands Gonzo a Medal of Failure and ships him back to Texas. I don’t think it’s going to happen, though.
This is a way for GOP Senators to show daylight between themselves and BushCo — a nonbinding vote that makes them look like they are not rubberstamps for a failing Regime. They can justify the vote against Abu to teh base (”it didn’t matter”) while selling their newfound independence to the low-info swing voter.
Rove may set them free to vote as they wish — letting Abu take the heat for Dear Leader again, and again, and again.
Excellent work, ew. I like lhp’s notion that an initial vote is “practice,” or like warming up before you start to throw hard. I don’t see how the Dems can lose; they’ll surely get 50 votes, so a majority will be on record; and those who vote no will have to explain why they have “confidence” in the guy who did the “Wednesday Night Ambush.”
It keeps Gonzales resignation in the news cycle, and then Tony Snow has to answer questions about why, when their AG enjoy’s “no confidence” the President still tolerates him.
The unfolding of this chapter of the drama is going to be very interesting to watch. The question will be is when (not if) will be politically expedient for Rethugs to cut Bush loose.
Perhaps Goodling’s testimony will be helpful in this respect. Let’s hope that Conyers committee is better organized than it was with Gonzales. Hopefully the rethugs will stay away as they did with Comey. Esp since their disruptions in the Gonzo hearing didn’t accomplish a thing other than to stress Gonzo out even more than he already was.
Do you think maybe Wayne Allard (R-CO) or Jeff Sessions (R-AL) could join the list? Dont know much about Allard, but he is up for reelection in 2008 and one of the newly added USAs was in Colorado (Bill Leone). Sessions made some pretty strong statements to Gonzo (out of character for him) and was a former USA. Sessions is also up for reelection in 2008 plus USA David York was from Alabama. Could be pressure points there somewhere. Isnt Colorado half blue?
I would find it extremely doubtful for Dudd Gregg to vote in favor of “no confidence.” He’s Toothless Mitch’s stalking horse and pretty much does what Mitch says.
The only caveat I’d have is IF the Union-Leader came out for a “no confidence” vote and said Abu needed to go, Dudd MIGHT, MAYBE vote for it. Otherwise prol’ly not.
My $.02
Thanks, Frank, that about sums it up.
Pectopah @ 15
Shrug. I say let them filibuster. The Dems can turn that around and say, “We can’t pass an Iraq funding bill until the Repubs stop their filibuster supporting Bush’s thoroughly corrupt Attorney General.”
TeddySanFran @ 9
Nope, it’s the money and some other stuff, all dated.
Allard is retiring.
Has Lieberman said anything? Sounds like a good bipartisan issue for him.
I’m sure Stevens vote will be NO!
Thanks for the post, ew,thanks for laying it out so clearly for us.
scarecrow @ 31
MWAHAHAHAHA
scarecrow funny
egregious @ 19
it’s ready to go any time. maybe a Friday afternoon dump can go in the other direction for a change!
TiredFed @ 35
Go for it. The perfect is the enemy of the good.
The fate of the nation may depend on it.
No pressure :)
TiredFed @ 25
Sessions is in the first group–he has already called for Gonzales to go, and I think his background on a USA might prompt him to be dramatically less disciplined than usual (though that’s not saying much, so he’ll probably follow Coburn’s lead).
WRT CO, Allard would be pissed that BushCo made him put off his favored choice for USA. But Leone was an interim when he was on the list. And they’ve put in an Abramoff crony. More important, Allard may not run.
OT. Froomkin has a great read today; especially, the Joseph L. Galloway excerpt.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00879.html
I’m doubtful we have the votes. Party loyalty comes before all with this group (if they want to see any moolah for their reelection campaigns from the RNC, that is).
OT to Marcy: Any rumbles on what Libby’s presentencing report said?
TiredFed @ 25
I think Allard has said he’d abide by his self-imposed two term limit and is not running in ‘08. From checking the Denver papers online, it looks like Mark Udall for the Dems and Bob Schaeffer(sp?) for the Rs (IIRC Schaeffer was a congress critter who left office to run for governor and lost – Ds I believe picked up his former seat which was designed to be competititive with an even distribution of D, R, and I).
got this from think progress, don’t know if it’s referanced here
I’ve been sayin the administration can NOT let abu torture go, if he goes it will be a water shed bringing a revisit to every one of his bizzare statements, if they ever needed to dig in their heels, this is the person to do it with
now we have this from think progress;
[Mod:If you are going to use quotes, please take care to close with [/blockquote] with the all important “/” sometimes this is erased by backspacing, thanks]
TeddySanFran @ 22
Perhaps it is a way for GOP senators to show daylight between themselves and AGAG, but that’s a one-way street. Anyone who votes for a resolution of no confidence but then later backs off and votes against a later, more binding proposal (like impeachment, for example) will immediately get slapped silly by everyone within earshot. “What, you had no confidence in AGAG when it didn’t carry any weight, but now that it matters, you have confidence in him after all?” They’ll hear it from Dems, they’ll hear it from GOPer challengers, they’ll hear it from the press, and they will most certainly hear about it from the Toobz.
There’s no way Rove is going to set them free to vote against AGAG. The resolution may have Gonzales’ name on it, but the real subject of the “no confidence” statement is Bush, and Rove — more than anyone else — knows it.
Not gonna happen.
The measure will fail to come to a vote, thereby giving the GOP Senators cover. They can say they would have voted no confidence had it reached the floor. But since they did not actually vote they protect the president and their standing with conservatives.
Expect a lot of Haggis votes, and out-campaigning votes on cloture.
dakine01 @ 26
Sounds like someone needs to get some LTEs into the Union Leader by Monday or Tuesday…
;-p
TeddySanFran @ 30
ah. so no leverage and no need for him to vote against the caucus except maybe his conscience and everlasting soul. oh well.
scarecrow @ 31
He’s too busy raising money for the GOP.
OT
House Dem Staffer: Liberals Are Worried That Leadership Will Cave On Iraq
http://electioncentral.tpmcafe…..8/liberals
A no confidence vote?
Hell, why don’t they just have the principal compose a stern note and send it to his mother?
FWIW
WONKETTE is saying Gonzales is the Friday Night Dump, maybe
Friday Night Dump
Considering Liarman is out raising funds for the wingnuts, I’d say ice cubes have a better chance in hell than liarman voting against Abu.
Elliott @ 50
Bursting into song:
“When you wish upon a star….”
Elliott @ 50
Stop playing with my emotions.
Elliott @ 50
Hmmm. I’m thinking about how the closer Wolfie got to resignation, the more support he had from the Pres, according to Tony Snow anyway.
We can always hope!
egregious @ 52
Please, please, please, let it be true….
Elliott @ 50
Wow. As soon as Marcy starting counting votes, they folded.
Totally OT — and from nowhere but my own curdled brain — the replacement for Wolfie….see nytimes link
How about….Larry Summers!!!!!
scarecrow @ 56
what choice did they have?
scarecrow @ 56
The Lioness has spoken.
tbsa @ 55
personally I would rather the man get impeached then be resigned
by the way;
why do these people get to resign?…they’re being fired…FY YERED
canned
axed
errr
fired
Elliott @ 50
Bush needs someone to run the World Bank.
plainjane @ 57
Sure, because he’s so diplomatic that the Harvard College faculty went into rebellion against him. Nice try.
Eh, probably the World Bank job doesn’t require someone who is sensitive to other people of various cultures from around the world?
I hope someone is getting the Snoopy Dance video ready, just in case.
I want the Democrats to read into the record the questions Monica asked justice dept employees and then change the no confidence vote on Gonzo into an Either/ Or vote. Vote against Gonzo Or if the Republicans vote to support Gonzo then they ONLY and their staff would be Voting to submit Themselves to that kind of treatment and be fired/removed from office based on their answers. Just like employees at the Justice Dept were. The have you ever cheated on your wife question alone could scare a lot of Republicans. The whats good for the goose (justice Dept) should be good for the (gander) Congress. If all Republicans who vote no on kicking out Gonzo know that a No vote means they have just voted to treat themselves that way they won’t vote for Gonzo. If they stop the vote then they look like they have something to hide, Plus lie detectors could be set up in Congress to test their willingness to put their convictions to the test right away on TV. Crime does tend to go down if punishment is swift and certain. The Republicans will be left hidding behind the Consitituion running from lie detectors on TV or they could make a deal.
egregious @ 62
Isn’t John Bolton free?
Pectopah @ 61
into the ground
Elliott @ 50
I had said to a friend earlier in the afternoon that my schadenfreude senses were twitching … please let it be so!
egregious @ 62
And his opening speech at WB will be to ask why there aren’t more women working for the World Bank.
I don’t know about Roberts. The removal of the KC USA affects the KS residents on the KS side of the MO/KS border, where the GOP has been bleeding badly already. The folks there have had it with the GOP KS TheoCons bent on changing the science curriculum to eliminate evolution and eliminating even discussions of abortion. If Roberts hears from his constituents about this, it might stiffen his spine.
The other senator from KS, Sam Brownback, is in an interesting position. He is looking to move from the second tier of GOP presidential candidates into the top tier, and I can envision several scenarios where he might come to the conclusion that loudly slamming AGAG might gain him some press and some credibility in the non-TheoCon parts of the GOP — which he desperately needs.
The question is, therefore, how desperate is he?
Mission accomplished!
njr @ 7
Seconded.
egregious @ 52
Egregious, you crack me up!
Emptywheel,
You’re assuming that McCain is going to vote? That’s going out on a limb right there.
enjoying David Schuster sitting in for Tucker today!
scarecrow @ 68
Touche!
TeddySanFran @ 74
I would too if Bay Buchanan wasn’t there.
Tithonia @ 72
In real life I’m a very serious person.
Pectopah @ 61
John Perkins is perfect!
(a confessed “hit-man“)
egregious @ 75
But he’ll go on to explain how they’re lacking in the particular monetary senses necessary. ;})
Yu know, the other day Heather Wilson was on Washington Journal (I didn’t see much actually). she was asked if she thought Gonazales should resign.
Surprisngly, she didn’t give the standard BushCo response about not commenting on an ongoing investigation; she said the President had the right to choose his people, and she pick her staff.
But if Abu goes today, who’s the new AG? Chimp never announces a departure without having the new guy (it’s always a guy) there to soak up the spotlight.
Uh oh. This isn’t real life?
I can’t see Gonzo leaving. He’s the only man for the job. He’s been an accomplice in the corruption of the whole DOJ. There aren’t many who are willing to do that. Now that it’s been discovered, he needs to stay to protect himself, Rove, Bush, Cheney and who knows who else. Self-preservation is a powerful motivater.
dakine01 @ 79
Poor Larry violated one of the cardinal rules for men when discussing women: Don’t.
U.S. Attorney Repeatedly Pressured Doyle Aide To ‘Implicate Others’ In Political Witch Hunt
Well it’s only a rumor from WONKETTE, let’s hope they can get the votes for the no confindence resolution.
I agree about Brownback and also about Knsas/Knsas City, too.
egregious @ 36
Ok. sent them. 13 pages of qs and some background. emailed to Conyers at his House.gov address. copies are at my place (TiredFed) any stragglers can be sent on Monday. I covered some of the politicization issue, but not as hard hitting as Things Come Undone above. suggest everyone send their own questions to Conyers or to member on the full committee if one is your Congressperson.
Peterr @ 69
I was wondering about the KC dynamic, Peterr. Thanks for the comment.
And as to Brownback. I used to think Brownback was shrewd enough to make those kind of calculations. Until he called Peyton Manning the best quarterback ever. In Wisconsin.
DrenchedOtter @ 3
This is a little different from the Iraq amendment. I don’t see any downside to any Democrat voting for no confidence.
completely OT, but i think of interest to firepups… from Nell, i see that this week we did get our vote in the house on the “don’t attack iran w/o congressional approval” notion (thomas link):
it was submitted as an amendment to the defense appropriations bill, h.r.1585. here is the roll call vote. yep, you read that right. 99 dems voted against this amendment – and speaker pelosi didn’t even cast her vote. voting no were many of the usual suspects, and sadly also some of our “friends”: Paul Hodes, Chris Van Hollen, Patrick Murphy, John Murtha, Joe Sestak, Carol Shea-Porter, Henry Waxman. read the list and weep.
can anyone please tell me i read this incorrectly? please, please let me be full of shit on this.
Tithonia @ 82
You’re having a conversation with people named egregious, emptywheel and scarecrow and you have to ask?
Pectopah @ 61
How about Neil for the World Bank and Jeb for AG.
Tithonia @ 82
[Shhh…yes but don’t tell anyone]
TiredFed @ 87
good for you!
Alright firepups.
McCaffrey the MilleniaLab is long overdue for a walk and he’s beginning to smell like it and I promised to let him swin in the river, too.
If Gonzales resigns at 5, will someone please call me on my batphone?
I have a question for the folks who know more about the behind-the-scenes stuff on Capitol Hill than I am. (And apologies if this has already been asked or answered and I missed it.)
It’s getting towards the end of May which means, of course, that Congress goes into recess. Which means — of course! — that it’s time for recess appointments! What better way to replace an embattled Attorney General without having to answer questions during a bitter confirmation hearing than a recess appointment?
So, does anyone know if they’re actually going to recess, or whether they’re going to have a pro forma staff on hand to keep ‘in session’?
TiredFed @ 87
See? It’s so easy to make me happy. Well and zingy shoes of course.
FDL Louboutins: the shoes that saved a nation. Well we did get a lot of attention during the trial from the other reporters…and showed them we are just regular babes. Who knows? Such things could tip the balance ever so slightly. We use ALL our weapons.
TiredFed @ 87
thank you tiredfed! great work… off to read…
Peterr @ 69
Oh man, I think that he hasn’t broken through the upper bound of second tier, and that the hordes are still praying for Fred Thompson to enter the race is not a good sign. He’s desperate. I think he’s a 50/50 or better toward No Confidence and Impeachment.
The other question is Roberts’ exposure since he was in favor of warrantless wiretapping to a degree and has squelched reporting that might have revealed details about “the program(s)”; is the NSA warrantless wiretapping a risk for him? Would he vote against No Confidence and Impeachment to save his own backside?
Maybe constituence can put it to him: Are you corrupt and siding with Gonzo, or are you clean and willing to help clean house?
emptywheel @ 45
LTE of the Union-Leader ALL get published but they have editorial page types similar to the WaPoo and WSJ. The timing would be six months from now.
scarecrow @ 84
Larry has education. That doesn’t mean he’s smart.
Internet runors? It is being rumored that Wayne Madsen is a weird and lonely blogger.
emptywheel @ 95
/do not have your bat phone number but I can yell at frequencies only bats can hear
/will give ultra high yel when news comes down, let me know if you hear it
You have to think Blair was here to get his pay off. They can’t do any business on the phone because of wire taping problems (of their own making). Everything is done in person now. Cheney goes to Middle East. Bush holds court in White House or in Crawford.
Doesn’t Blair’s resignation become effective June 30th…as well as Wittle Wolfie’s. Seems like the perfect payoff for Tony Blair’s lap dancing on DimSon.
Helen @ 53
What does it say? Wonkette is blocked in these parts.
I’m still not convinced that anything short of impeachment and removal of AbuG will get him to leave. If he goes, Bush has too much to lose. The floodgates of investigative fervor must needs burst open if Gonzo goes. Any candidate for a replacement would have to clear this Congress. And anyone with half a brain and half a scruple could not bring themselves to continue the sand bagging and machine politics G has done.
I think if we could get him removed, this presidency would be done by Christmas.
TeddySanFran @ 74
Dang I missed him. I hate Tucker so I turned off the teevee. Repeat at 3:00!!! : )
so why will abu torture have the priviledge and dignity of a resignation?
if he goes he’s being fired he’s not resigning
I can’t WAIT to see the president actually praise abu torture when he accepts the resignation
in the same breath he will blame congress for getting him canned
the democrats have to be prepared for the scenario where the president praises abu and blames congress and they have to EMBARRASS the notion and take the oportunity to POUND the president for remaining “loyal”
Loo Hoo @ 104
it says
bless you, TiredFed
Marcy — I’ll send an SMS as soon as we hear something. I promise. Have a nice walk!
The Spook Here with a click-by posting:
wonkette claims tip gonzo resigning today at 5 EDT. Linky:
http://wonkette.com/politics/d…..261767.php
almost certainly bs….but what if it isn’t? what if the comey thing has hurt them more than we know?
I’m hoping the Goodling hearing will permanently cook Gone-zo’s goose and put Karl Rove on ice.
Remember all roads lead to Rove.
dammint here’s the right link:
please please let it be true!
[Mod: the original was fine, just looks weird when the software truncates it]
You know if it is true that Gone-zo’s resigning tonight, could it be that Goodling’s testimony is going to be so devastating that there’s no point in AGAG staying?
Alfred Kelgarries @ 111
You have to think the Bushies don’t want this scandal getting any closer to Rove and Cheney and Bush. Bush was none too happy to have to duck question about who sent Fredo and Cardo to the hospital to intimidate Ashcroft. Obvious questions are none to pleasant for the first crime family.
Brisingamen @ 114
let’s hope that testimony goes forward regardless
perris @ 116
absolutely. Goodling leads to Rove and Miers.
off topic and just thiking out load
from now on when we refer to the war in Iraq I want all democrats to use the following term;
“the republican war in Iraq” or something similar that tags it on the republcan party and their inept ability handling national security
perris @ 116
Oh, it will — that’s why Goodling was granted immunity; even if AGsquared is out, there are still a lot of questions to be answered.
ok. now i’m really depressed. from greg at tmp cafe: “House Dem Staffer: Liberals Are Worried That Leadership Will Cave On Iraq“
the abu gone at 5pm rumor better be true. i want some good news…
perris @ 118
I like that idea…Branding it with the big GOP label. Always link the Republicans and Bush and the Iraq War and Corruption.
it’s 3 minutes past 5
any news dumpage?
Brisingamen @ 118
Yeah, it’s not about Abu anymore, it’s about Bush and the politicization of the DOJ. Leahy and Schumer won’t stop their oversight just because Abu leaves.
perris @ 117
How about we call it was it really was/is: “The Republican invasion and occupation of Iraq.”
I have 5:05 pm EDT…see nothing but Hardball…nothing on the crawl.
Anybody? Anybody?
Rayne @ 99
My new campaign song:
Clean up, clean up
everybody, everywhere!
Clean up, clean up
everybody do your share…
Followed by the cheer:
Rule. Of. Law.
Rule. Of. Law.
and a crowd wave…
perris @ 121
They’ve been going late lately. The Wolfie thing didn’t come down until about 6, iirc.
The Friday afternoon dump is getting too well covered now, too predictable. Maybe later..Sat AM?
abu bin gonzo isn’t gonna resign…he’s gonna be the Regime’s stalking horse…he’ll run interference for the rest of ‘em for the next year or so, by which time the politics of the election year will have so taken over that his peccadillos will diminish to insignificance.
and any effort to impeach him will only lead to further difficulties in oversight of the rest of the regime…
pursuing impeachment of Abu Bin Gonzo only abets the criminal fascist f*ckers…
Brisingamen @ 124
NICE
I’m sure we can come up with a host of terminology that tags the miserable polices where they belong
It was a tip from the White House and we know the White House is a liar.
but I’m still hopin’
twolf1 @ 85, didn’t Comey during his testimony this week vouch for Biskupic? The following is from your link.
“A new report in the Isthmus Daily Paper shows that Biskupic “repeatedly offered to go easy on her [Thompson] if she were to implicate others in the administration of Wisconsin Gov. Jim Doyle,” indicating that Biskupic’s case was based on partisan politics. Similarly, Thompson “repeatedly rejected the plea agreements because she said she had no information” about improprieties in the Doyle administration:….
“Documents indicate that Biskupic went after the Bush administration’s political opponents to avoid the Justice Department’s list attorneys targeted for removal. In 2005, the Wisconsin state Republican party prepared a report for Karl Rove that attacked Biskupic for not going after voter fraud aggressively enough.”
TiredFed @ 87
Tired Fed,
I peeked this is exactly what they need! I am going to make a copy and use it during the hearing as a checklist. Tiredfed, excellent job!
lolo
do-si-do @ 126
V.I.C.T.O.R.Y.
Sally @ 131
check this out, the new tactic from the neo fascists is to say comey broke the law by discussing a top secret program
tools aren’t they?
OT a little levity on a Friday. From Bob Geiger, the Bentsen slapdown of Quayle
Ever since about the end of April, 2003, i have tried consistently to refer to it as the “ICORP” if Iraq: Invasion, Conquest, Occupation, Rape & Pillage…
if terrorism is defined as the application of mortal force to bring about political change, it is impossible to regard the US imperium in Iraq as anything other than terrorists of the first water…
/
I have been calling it the War on Iraq for some time, and I’m happy to call it the GOP War on Iraq and Illegal Occupation.
FDL, sorry for the intrusion. I only post here occasionally, but read every day. Trust me. This thought has been consuming me this day, and I thought I would share.
Yesterday I wrote about Bush’s guilt for this war. I did it casually but the thought has consumed me. It has been with me ever since. This war. This damnation of reason and diplomacy. The sad farcical tragedy is Bush’s war. There is not a doubt in my mind that it is his. He wanted it. He promoted it. It is his. If he wanted to stop it tomorrow, he could. All he has to do is say the word and the healing in Iraq could begin. The soldiers could begin making plans for coming home. The Iraqi government – as lame as they are – would have to look around and go, OMG! We had better do something.
But he will not. Even today the Dems offered him everything he wanted (against most of our wishes) and he disrespected them. At this point what do the American people owe this petulant asshole? Not a damned thing.
Let him have his war but take away the funding and the troops and the trappings of the USA. If he wants to fight it, let him take HIS money and his FRIENDS’ money and hire their own army (there is one there now I believe) and fight on. He can hire General Cheney to lead the troops into battle. He can fly a plane and bomb all of the women and children he would like to. He can stroke his manhood while telling his wife of the babies he blew up this day.
But let him do it alone and without sanction. I am tired of the charade. I owe him nothing. It is a war I never wanted and fought to prevent. Now, I fight to end it. Let it end now with a whimper from the lips of the miserable failure.
Just remind anyone who brings up the topic, “The war on terrorism ended the day we invaded Iraq.”
Hey, a follow-up to my earlier question: Assume for a minute that Congress does go into recess, and AG2 is still in office at the time.
What are the rules regarding resignations and replacements during the recess period? Can Gonzales resign and BushCo recess-appoint someone ten minutes later, thus completely bypassing the confirmation process? Or is there some rule that prevents that?
edited for content not appropriate for this blog.
:~>
meep! @ 140
This can happen. No more recesses!
perris @ 135
THAT is exactly what Comey (and Schumer) expected if Comey came forward on his own, if Comey divulged anything more specific, if Comey had not expressed several waivers and disclaimers at the beginning of his testimony. Schumer walked him carefully around the land mines. Can you imagine hanging on to this knowledged for 3 years, wondering if and when they’d be stupid enough to disappear you into Gitmo or elsewhere because you said too much? they’d do it if they were willing to strong-arm a sick man.
Do we have any hopes for the Friday afternoon follies? We’re right in the middle of the newsdump sweet spot, after a fairly busy week…
lolo @ 133
from the zed queen herself. thanks. let’s hope Conyers gets them and uses some of them. If any of the members of the committee are your congressperson, suggest you send a copy to him/her.
Tired Fed, super questions. Hope Monica is not reading them which surely would spook her.
dakine01 @ 136
dont even have to – it’s the “you’re no Jack Kennedy” line. it was a killer!
Sally @ 146
i can’t read the questions…. this is the error msg i keep getting:
anyone else?
TeddySanFran says: This can happen. No more recesses!
bwahahahahahahahaha (gasp) hahahahahahahaha (gasp) hahahahaha
right… the Dims in congress are NEVER gonna sacrifice their vacations for the sake of thwarting the Busheviks’ fell plans…
i remain convinced that Abu bin Gonzo won’t resign…but if he did, it would be a day before the next scheduled recess, and the Chimp would use the recess appointment to install Santorum as interim AG…
Gay-ron-F**KIN-TEED, chers…
I never did hear anything else about Ralston.
She must not have been the one I wanted to finger Rove.
Dammit.
meep! @ 141
Bush can recess appoint anytime he wants. vacancy? congress in recess? done.
From cnn on the immigration bill:
Why is it ALWAYS the landscaper? Is that the GOP elite’s only interaction with the “illegals”? Do they not eat produce, ever?
selise @ 149
I can email them to you. spaces probably has a much smaller user limit than FDL’s servers.
meep! @ 139
To the best of my knowledge, ALL Cabinet Level positions (i.e., Attorney General) MUST be confirmed by the Senate, no ifs, ands, or buts.
The Deputy AG becomes the Acting AG if/when the AG resigns, is incapacitated, or dies.
The Deputy AG is McNulty, who just turned in his resignation, but I think he intended to stay until there was a Senate-confirmed replacement.
Frances’ Sarkozy has appointed 7 women to his cabinet giving almost 50/50 parity to women in his government. He is also considering a French style affirmative action program to enfranchise minorities.
“PARIS – Rachida Dati, a woman with North African roots, was named justice minister in France’s new Cabinet on Friday, an appointment rich with symbolism that the law will be colorblind in a nation still coping with the fallout from riots across immigrant-heavy neighborhoods two years ago.”
He is also planning on pushing the issue of global warming.
So much for the American rightwing triumphalism. He’ still French after all.
-GSD
TeddySanFran @ 143
B*stards. Okay, then I say AG2 isn’t resigning this afternoon. Why bother when, if he holds out another week, there’s a chance for a recess appointment that allows the stonewalling to continue? B*stards.
TiredFed @ 152
yes please, that would be lovely! i think you already have my email? at speakeasy dot net.
Any Senate-confirmed position is subject to a recess appointment, which lasts until the end of the current session (or the current Congress, I forget which).
Any Cabinet position can be recess-appointed, just as John Bolton was at the UN and Sam Fox to the Court of the King of the Belgians. Nothing to stop it except not having a recess.
Perris, they are tools. I marvel at the efficiency of their slime machine.
Rayne, I expect to hear very soon that Comey has left Lockheed-Martin to spend more time with his family. Then the usual denials from the thugs that they had anything to do with it.
selise @ 157
already on its way. :)
Sally @ 159
Depends…some of the Wall Street Repugs are VERY unhappy with Bush. There’s a rift inside the administration that mirrors this, SecTreasury aligned apart from the Bushies. I think as long as Mr. Comey is productive, he’ll be fine.
Thanks EW. As much as I cannot stand Sen. Bond — I will be calling his office Monday about the vote!
Wolfie successor names being floated:
Some indicate impeaching the AG is laying the ground work for impeaching the prez. Perhaps so. But is there enough time left after frying all the smaller fish, (Gonzales, Cheney and Rove etc.) to deal with GWB while this man is still in office? I’m sure I don’t know. I might be inclined to lance the boil (Bush) now, while there is still time.
I can see this bill not even making it to the floor. I think if it does, it’ll pass, depending on how much Bush lays it on. But Bush seems to be on his own with Gonzo. I’m thinking that if the Repugs don’t fillibuster, it’ll pass by a large majority. Esp. by Repugs wanting to look like they’re cleaning up their act, like you said.
Emptywheel – great post!
(I read your comment mid-thread and thought it said to call you on your -batphone- bathphone if Gonzo resigns – lol. I thought “what a leisurely way to spend Friday evening – a bubble bath! And here, I would think Marcy would even have a TV hooked up near the tub so she could hear the announcement live!”)
I’m not holding my breath that Gonzo will retire today. I think he’ll stick around as long as possible – maybe even through the rest of the term, since there is no real way to force him out. I’ll be happy to be wrong on this.
Brisingamen @ 154
Thanks, Brisingamen. ::blatantly showing my civic ignorance here:: Does anyone know if this is actually written down somewhere, or is this one of those quaint traditions that
RoveBush can ignore?Re comments at 25, 37, 41 about Wayne Allard, R-CO.
Am listening to local news on KUNC {public radio, northern Colorado}. Wayne Allard’s spokesman told interviewer here that, because of the developments in the Leone situation, Allard is reconsidering his position on AG AG. He had suggested Leone, who was interim, to be permanent , and was ignored.
Also story at Fort Collins Coloradoan
As a newly registered Colorado voter, I can contact him. Any suggestions as to what I should say to encourage his vote of no-confidence?
I continue to support my Speaker. And I would support the Speaker if the Speaker decided to change the Speaker’s mind as to impeaching the President of the United States.
TiredFed @ 159 –
got it! many thanks!
TiredFed – great work on the questions. Don’t know if I can watch, but will someone be keeping score?
This is way o/t, but I can’t stop being pissed about this NPR story I heard yesterday on All Things considered. Here’s the link…
http://www.npr.org/templates/s…..d=10239431
It’s such propaganda, I can’t stand it. It hits every Bush talking point about how the surge is just starting to work and that we are succeeding one block at a time. There’s one point where Anne Garrels nearly cries.
I know that All Things Considered is fluff, but this one really made me sick and it goes a long way in showing how the press in Iraq have been manipulated at will.
If the US soldiers are really going through the streets of Iraq saying that they will protect them indefinitely, then that is irresponsible. Because no matter what, we’re not sticking around there forever.
Mutant Poodle @ 170
holy cow, no kidding – awesome work by tiredfed!
for the hearing, i will attempt to record the audio (as i did for comey hearing)… but hope it will be covered by c-span for later broadcast.
I have a theory:
it is that the reason the GOPukes aren’t falling all over themselves to get away from Abu bin Gonzo as far and as fast as possible is that they’ve got inside information that the fix for the 2008 race is in, and the GOPhascists are gonna steal it again…somehow…
Don’t ask me how. Anything I’d answer would be automatically be regarded as ‘tin-foil hat’ territory. I just think that, if the Pukes REALLY thought they’d face tough opposition in ‘08, there’d be a LOT more defections by now…
.
What we don’t know is what color horse head he found in his bed when he woke up this morning…
I would exclaim ‘get rid of the Attorney General of the United States’! But do we seriously think that his replacement would be any more interested in the rule of law?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 175
Whoever it is would have to make it past a D controlled Senate, with R’s (supposedly) pissed about Abu.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 175
At least his replacement would have to be confirmed by a Democratic Senate Judiciary Committee.
TeddySanFran @ 158
Okay, thanks. And thanks for putting up with ignorant questions ::grin::. I actually did extremely well in my civics classes, but they were many, many years ago …
Mushuweasel is apparently a faster typist than I am.
Must depart my wifi hub at the Santa Monica Coffee Bean for a 3:00 appt. Later, ‘pups.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 164
Impeaching Bush isn’t just about getting rid of Bush, it’s about discovering everything that has gone on for the last several years. It’s about exposing all the evildoers around and behind Bush who will continue Doing Bad Deeds in the future unless they’re held to account. The one thing this country must not do is shrug its shoulders and walk away from the “Bush years” when 2009 rolls around. There must be a true reckoning, even if we’re still cleaning up the mess years from now, because God knows we will still be cleaning up the mess years from now. Our mottoes should be, “Find the truth,” “Fix the problems,” and “Restore the Constitution.”
Oh I realize the confirmation thing. But until then, with perhaps a possible recess appointment, wouldn’t Mr. G’s deputy fill in? Or some other Bush Admin. affectionado?
The view here is that affixing responsibility might be a worthy goal. As in setting examples, for example.
emptywheel, an honest question — you state that “Rove […] isn’t that crazy about Gonzales staying.”
What’s your cite for this? I haven’t actually seen this in the MSM or on a prominent blog that I can recall.
And I would tend to think myself that, given Gonzo’s value as a firewall, in office and exec-privileged-up as a stonewall, as a distraction from whatever the hell else the admin is up to, and as a bulwark against the slow-drip of a new AG confirmation hearing, Rove wants — no, *needs* — Gonzo to stay on board.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 184
Silly me.. Not thinking. I wonder if Bush could manage to provoke the entire DoJ to resign in disgust.
meep! @ 156
Maybe KO will have breaking news with an exclusive from Pumpkinhead. Unfortunately, wonkettes little fib may be a dirty trik from kkkarl. Next friday for Abu’s step down and the recess appt.
now,
more than ever:
the campaign to Impeach Gonzales.
Act for Change makes it easy to express yourself to your representative,
and to conyers and pelosi, too.
The Confidence Man @ 185
Think Marcy is still out walking her dog. Can’t recall seeing a cite from her on this, but IMO, there’s a balancing act going on.
Gonzo may be the firewall they need in place, since as long as he’s there he draws fire, but he also stands to increase the drain on Bush’s JAR. His JAR is a direct measure of Rove’s own JAR, and there is not much between that number and the concrete slab of the basement. Rove’s pointed avoidance of every congressional delegations’ recommendation on replacement USA’s certainly made him no friends, either.
At what point do they cut Abu loose to reduce the drag?
edit: Ooh…Gonzo’s the topic at this point on Hardball!!
scarecrow @ 23
Bingo! It’s a win-win for Dems.
Is there anything barring simultaneous impeachment hearings?
MSNBC: 5 more troops killed in Iraq today
Frank Probst @ 28
OMG, this is soooo good. God, I love to watch Republicans squirm.
It’s a win-win-win for Dems!
“Watergate” is the ‘political precedent’.
global yokel @ 13
I think you are right. I am waiting to hear what Monica has to say-not so much next week in the House hearings, but when Leahy and Whitehouse get a crack at her in the Senate hearngs.
Oh good God, they are really f*cking stupid.
MSNBC’s crawl just said Bill Frist’s name has come up for Wolfie’s replacement.
Jeebus. They are so corrupt they can’t see their way out.
no offense, pardner, but “wanna bet?”
their protestations to the contrary notwithstanding, i cannot frankly believe that the USer imperium will walk away form somewhere between 6 and 14 spanking new military bases, the establishment of which provided at least one third of the practical reasons why “we” invaded, conquered, occupied, raped, & plundered (ICORP’d) Iraq to begin with…
(the other two being to secure disposative authority over the oil, and the protection of israel’s northern flank).
i dunno how old you are, but if you haven’t already gathered s shock of gray hair, you’ll have it, and your children, too, before the US imperium wiothdraws all its forces from Iraq…
.
TiredFed
I like the snark in the question about her understanding of limited immunity!
Rayne @ 197
Oh please oh please oh please…
Since Norm Coleman is facing a tough election in ‘08, he wants to vote for no confidence. But he will do so ONLY if Bushco doesn’t need his vote. He’s shown in the past that he votes 95% for Bushco. The bottom line is that the only thing Norm cares about is the creature he sees in the mirror every morning. That sorry excuse for a human being has NEVER done anything that did not promote him & his political carreer. Never. Ever.
ps: I’m a resident of MN. GO FRANKEN!
Off topic/EPU’d but an important word from Erdla [mfi/du]:
Erdla @ 102
Oklahoma kiddo @ 164
While I agree that getting Bush and Cheney out of office is a priority, and I want everything this administration has ever done exposed to the light of day (and completely undone), the fact is that neither of them will ever again hold a position of such power.
But I think one of the results of impeachment is that folks who are impeached are forbidden from holding public office again, and that’s something that I desperately want to see with pretty much everyone in this administration. So many of the folks now making the decisions came out of the Nixon cancer, and they’re much worse than Nixon was. I hate to think about the folks who are being shaped *now* and what *their* actions will be in 20-30 years.
OT FYI-
shorter chimp – protect yourself, you’re on your own.
Frank Probst @ 199
Would make sense from the WH perspective as Frist is a former senator. Other than that he is money-grubbing fool.
Solai @ 83
Well, they could always move Gonzales to the World Bank … because Bush needs more competence real quick.
Bwaahhhaaahahahah.
perris @ 118
It’s an occupation
New Thread with Donita!
Interesting…more on AGAG in the MSNBC crawl, this time from Sen. Roberts (R-KS), quoting him as saying something to the effect that “if you have to spend more time on the Hill than you do running Justice, you have to think about it”.
Hmm. Maybe some folks in KS/MO should be writing letters to the editor to lean on the incumbent-candidate from KS.
(BTW, David Schuster is a HUGE improvement over that dork Tucker.)
Perhaps Senator Coburn just became more comfortable with Gonzales when he discovered that he was in favor of illegal emergency room interventions?
Looks ike Bush is pumping up his weather machine. Batten down the hatches!
The more I think about it, the Republican’s partisan-driven impeachment of Bill Clinton was the best precursor action to Bush’s presidency. If Clinton had not been impeached in such a ridiculous partisan fashion for a completely unnecessary reason, the American public would not be shy about the I word. The Democrats would not be afraid that people might say it’s a partisan payback, a political game. People would not be weary of the notion of bogging down the government to impeach the president for the crimes he appears to have committed (heck, he’s even publically admitted to breaking the FISA laws).
It was a lucky break for Bush. It has enabled Bush to do whatever he wants, knowing that it will be very difficult to get the votes and the public support for an impeachment fight.
I still think the general public would get behind it en masse if the MSM would report the misdeeds and illegal activity of Gonzales, Bush, Cheney, and their minions. The tide is breaking our way… here’s hoping that the calls for Gonzo’s ouster will result in his leaving. I still think he’ll stay on no matter what, since he cannot be forced out except by the President, who has every legal reason to protect Gonzo.
Frank Probst @ 199
Frist is as good a GOP crook as any perhaps. What with all his health industry shenanigans. Not to mention his pious dignosis, for purely political motives of that poor woman in Florida. Without ever seeing the patient.
lolo @ 188
we can’t let Congress take a recess, not even one for a Day of Remembrance.
Rayne @ 208
David Schuster is always good. We should e-mail MSNBC and let them know we think he is so better than Tucker. Schuster can actually formulate a logical argument. The stuff that comes out of Tucker’s mouth often makes no logical sense at all.
There’s one bit I don’t get in Marcy’s great post: the part where Coleman will vote yes on no confidence because Rove “isn’t that crazy about Gonzales staying”.
No one has more to lose than Rove if Gonzales leaves. Rove has told the press he’s not crazy about keeping Abu, but that’s just classic misdirection and briar-patchism.
On the other hand, I expect it is true that Rove will (within limits, the numbers can’t be allowed too close to the magic 67) allow Publican senators to vote for no-confidence. It costs nothing, and helps them out in ‘08.
They can easily justify a later vote against impeachment. That’s been the whole point of Gonzales’s ridiculous “I am an idiot, I remember nothing, I never gave an order in my life and I let my underlings run roughshod over me” schtick. He had a choice: tell the truth (suicide), tell direct lies (legally dangerous and tends to “advance the issue”), or pretend to have an IQ about 60 points below his real one.
So the Goopers released by Rove can vote Yes on no confidence – on the grounds that Fredo is an incompetent boob. And then vote no on impeachment, because you don’t impeach for incompetence, only for malfeasance, and Gonzales is plainly an honest and upright man.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 212
A sick payback to teh World Bank. Stick them with Frist for what they did to poor Wolfie.
Dems are going to arrange a whole series of votes in which goopers will get to decide whether to throw in with their hated president or toss him under the bus.
The rubber stamp label has ceased to become a “DOWNSIDE” and has begun to be a death knell. It’s a great trick and dems can do it over and over again.
to clarify the first sentence of my post at 210, I’m not saying that I’m glad clinton was impeached – I’m saying Bush should be damn glad. It helped him to get away with a lot of illegal activity with little fear of impeachment, since every time the word is raised by Democrats, the Republicans just whine “it would a political witchunt, a payback for Clinton’s impeachment that would shut down our government and distract us from protecting America from the Terrarists!”. What good fortune for Bush.
Ugh.
Oh, please, everyone, don’t go upstairs!
I was kicking some of these ideas around locally, and got this response from a Honolulu attorney:
This idea goes back to an earlier post by looseheadprop, priming the pump. In order to do some of the things our local attorney suggests, we need a good “list of impeachable offenses”. This is exactly what the priming the pump idea was all about. We need a public workspace on this, and FDL threads just don’t fill the bill. Look at what has NOT happened following LHP’s Priming the Pump post: The idea was good, but we have not had the right kind of workspace to follow up.
How can we create that workspace?
DailyKos has some wiki space for projects like this; it would basically take someone who knows enough to set it up. Once started, any of us could contribute.
How about it?
Bob in HI
landofthefree @ 211
I think this is spot on correct – even many, many Dems are fearful of looking like we are just interested in paybacks. I also think this has contributed greatly to the President’s ability to avoid scrutiny for so long – don’t want to look like the Clinton era Republicans!
nicteis (214) — okay, we’ll put you down for the same concerns The Confidence Man (185) expressed.
Marcy’s still not back as far as I can tell, only been over an hour and she’s got a big dog that needs a long walk. If she let the pooch romp in the river, she’s also got to deal with a wet dog.
nicteis: I believe Norm Coleman came out yesterday saying publically that he has no confidence in gonzales. Of course, the fact that he’s clearly going to have to fight very hard to keep his seat in 2008 is probably the real reason he’s willing to turn on Gonzo. He’s just stepping on the bandwagon.
Bob: I say we go for it. Nice letter.
Bob Schacht @ 216 –
might consider using wikispaces. it’s a bit easier to use for the non-wiki literate among us.
just a thought…
Bob in HI – post that upstairs! It deserves a good read by everyone who has moved on.
Another interesting number of senators is 60 – the number necessary to override a filibuster and allow the bill to be submitted for a vote.
Bob Schacht — I think the other answer to this is to press for deeper and wider investigations, to develop the list of PROSECUTABLE offenses.
If crimes have clearly been committed, the kind that the average Joe SixPack can understand, then we can short cut making a list of impeachable offenses.
Impeachment of a political appointee is a political solution; prosecution is a solution to a criminal problem. These don’t necessarily align as we saw in the Clinton impeachment; was he really guilty of a criminal offense that was free of entrapment? Or was he guilty of a political offense? I think that’s the problem that many Americans and nearly ALL the Repugs will have with considering the impeachment of Bush; he may be a political pain-in-the-ass, but we have to show him to be a criminal beyond a resonable doubt before they will move to impeachment. In other words, Repugs’ impeachment of Clinton forced the bar higher for us.
But WE know that Bush has been criminal; it may take less time if we contribute collaboratively to producing the narrative and helping with the investigative work (a la Marcy’s efforts, or ePluribus Media, and so on).
We can also raise hell with Republicans running for office and make the failure to rein in Bush a reflection on their inability to lead. Write those LTE’s, folks!!
1. hard to believe that AGAG is going to resign. He’s the firewall, and that smirk won’t let him.
2. TiredFed’s questions are an impressive piece of work. No wonder he’s Tired! Get some rest!
Sen. Allard ‘weighing’ Gonzales resignation call
I’m not moving upstairs. i’m staying here.
Bay Buchanan has a mouth that won’t stop, a f*cking harpy on MSNBC. Pirahna going to town on HRC, will not stop chewing on her.
Schuster should step in here and tell her to STHFP. Ah, sweet relief, they move on to ad…
Bob @ 220
Hugh’s list of scandals might be a good place to look.
And, if not Bush, then Gonzo, Addington, Rove, Cheney… (take away Shrub’s braintrust and handlers)
Rayne I like the idea of a High Crimes List. Sort of like Hugh’s Scandals List.
twolf1 @ 230
Salazar came out against his friend AGA
Rayne – I was thinking the same thing! I loved it when Shuster basically did so by saying (paraphrased here) “you say Hillary Clinton isn’t straightforward, but how about the number of false things that have come out of this president just this week!” Then, he went on about the war we entered on false pretenses… Oh, that felt good to hear!
BTW, i just noticed on thinkprogress that Coleman has said he believes gonzo must resign, but he also says he will NOT vote yes on “no confidence” for Gonzo, as he says it’s a partisan stunt. That’s funny. So, he wants AG to step down from his job because he doesn’t believe he is doing it properly, but won’t vote for “no confidence.” yeah, dance on that line, stupid.
Coleman: I have no idea what I think, so I’ll keep contradicting myself
lolo @ 1:45 pm -
Jeb doesn’t have a law degree. Even if he did have a law degree, what are the chances that he would be confirmed?
Raw Story: House to join Senate in seeking ‘no confidence’ vote on Attorney General
From thread below, sorry off topic but need to think out loud here:
egregious @ 105
randiego @ 234
Nice idea!
Yesterday on the Thom Hartmann program, a listener suggested that they have a weekly update on the current scandals and investigations underway. Sort of a quick update on what Congress has been investigating. My first thought is that it might take a half-hour or more of Thom’s show. He’s going to try to make it happen!
fyi – upstairs they are just chatting about music
randiego @ 231
How are you going to get ZED with that attitude, RanDiego? And I assume you live in San Diego?
Damn, egregious. That is sobering, and it makes my stomach turn. Where the hell did our American ideals go? So much for supporting democracy and freedom. I’m sickened by what my government has done in our names.
Oh. My. F*cking. Dog.
Hit the damned mute button, PLEASE.
Bay Buchanan needs to have her mouth sewn shut for a rest.
I want to know why that bitch hasn’t tried to run for POTUS. Is it because she knows she’s an even bigger bitch than she claims Hillary is?
egregious @ 238
An interesting point. Are we waiting until we get their agreement before we get out?
Loo Hoo. @ 241
yes, I don’t just live here, I AM San Diego. And the pleasure of getting a zed must be fleeting, on a level lower than kissing your sister…
P J Evans @ 233
Could Hugh’s list be put into order by who was the greatest offender? Bob in HI, I think Hugh has already done the bulk of the work here.
randiego @ 243
Greg Palast makes this point in great detail in Armed Madhouse. It’s really worth a read.
randiego @ 244
Hey!
Rayne @ 243
I swear, you’re taking the words out of my mouth!!! I’ve been swearing at my TV almost every time she opens her whiny, self-important yap. And, it fascinates me to see women who love to go after other women in politics. Bay Buchanan is playing exactly the same cards that the sexist pigs would play against her if she were running, and as a woman, I find it even more repugnant to see her join in their sexist game.
hugh’s list
not every scandal is worthy of impeachment… but you will find some of them are… hugh’s up to 179.
lolo! Did you make Zed?
RanDiego, I’m in Fallbrook.
Rayne, she’s jealous of Hillary. She wanted to be the other Monica.
bill press, bring the truth to the table! Make Bay Buchanan shut her pie hole for at least 10 seconds, PLEASE!
egregious @ 238
This also reminds me of an article I read in harpers a couple years back, about how the original plan was to sell off all the Iraqi assets (factories, etc) to the highest bidder, until – woops – some genius pointed out that it would be against international law to do so. I wish I had kept that issue, it was a really great article.
No I missed it. MattAZ got it.
lolo @ 254
We still love you.
lolo @ 248
Woops that’s right – you’re the ZED MASTER!! So sorry…
landofthefree @ 249
She is used goods, like a spent box of Kleenex. She is cut from the same cloth as the rest of the shrieking right-wing monkey females like Laura Ingraham, Michelle Malkin, Ole 60 Grit, Ann Coulter…cripes, she could be harpy Mary Matalin’s much older sister.
But these women don’t have a vested interest in helping women get ahead; they are rewarded for being shiv-carrying anti-woman shrews.
There, you must have been thinking that, too. ;-)
egregious @ 255
Love you too egregious.
LooHoo,
I left a zed at Cassie’s blog last night. teeheehee
lolo @ 258
(((((FDL group hug)))))
Loo Hoo. @ 251
Wow, that’s way out there. When I worked in Rancho Bernardo I used to think THAT was out there… did you know Marcy spent some time in Poway?
emptywheel @ 88
Ouch. Not smart.
Current Generation Cheeseheads will compare him to Bart Favre, of course, but us older cheeseheads will compare him to Bart Starr. Starr was the only player to quarterback a team to five NFL championships. And that was before the Superbowls got started. He also led his team to victory in two of those. Peyton Manning is just a doofus to cheeseheads.
Bob in HI
Born a cheesehead
Nothing better than a fdl group hug!
you pretty much gotta go back to McKinley for the full answer to that–read wain’s stuff from the Anti-Imperialist Society…but the truth of the matter is that there haven’t been any, to speak of, since at least 1848 and Polk’s Mexican War…
Hugs all! Egregious, did you hear from the Iraqi doctor?
It is nearly 7 pm EST and the news has been running for an hour or so saying Dems cannot budge Bush on the funding bill—woe to the Dems—they will cave to the truculent President. Some of the blogs are carrying that message: Liberal Dems fear Leadership Will Give the President funding, no benchmarks, no timetable.
I think that is entirely possible, but I also think it is time to hit the President where it hurts.
As Digby and others have noted: The President ordered Gonzales and Card to twist Ashcroft’s arm as he lay in the hospital. He did not deny it when asked. Keep pressing and while you’re there, start asking about the whether the US Government has used domestic spying to spy on the Dems–naming them one-by-one. Get it on the record.
Think laterally. Per Digby–
“In any case, Bush was deeply involved. He met with both Comey and Mueller on the issue after they all said they’d resign. The spinners are trying to say that their Dear Leader finally overruled others who had nefarious intentions , but his refusal to answer the question today should put that to rest. There’s no reason for him to launch into such outdated 2003 gibberish about enemies lurking who “would like to strike” if he didn’t order it. It’s obvious that he did.
It would be nice of all the “Democratic strategists” pushed this today when they appear on the gasbag shows. Bush is personally on the run, now. They should chase him.”
Loo Hoo. @ 264
That’s right! What happened to the Iraqi doctor? Did his family hear from him yet?
I agree, dude. I want to see the Senate Judiciary Committee have chats with Meuller, Mrs. Ashcroft, Card, and some of the people under Comey. Oh, and of course, Gonzo himself.
Rayne @ 257
Yes ma’am!
These types of women fascinate me (in the same way a bad accident fascinates you – you find yourself watching even though you know it’s going to upset you and be horrible and senseless). It’s like the African Americans who are vocally anti-Affirmative Action and make racially divisive and demeaning statements against black politicians just to get attention. All I can think of is that they’re trying to further their careers by selling out, playing the cards they know will resonate in the media to line their own pockets.
Granted, I don’t care if people criticise Hillary Clinton or other female politicians based on FACTS and HONEST information. Bay and the other women you mention instead lie and inflame, create complete nonsense that they know is nasty, hurtful, tinged with sexism, and effective to a vast majority of voters who might have a little doubt about how “strong” and “decisive” and “reliable” a female candidate could be as president. Challenge Hillary on the facts – there’s plenty to go on there. But to allege Clinton has had an “extreme makeover” and she lies and is evasive and erratic on all topics, so you can’t trust this witchy, hormone-driven woman with the Presidency really pisses me off.
Ok, now that I’m really riled up, I have to go to work! Have a good one!
HA!
Beer O:clock comes an hour early today.
Have a great weekend everybody, see you Monday.
lolo @ 263
Some of us have been trying to do the group hug when we reach 200 comments. It’s kind of like getting up and stretching during a long conference.
Did EW ever get back from walking her dog? And, more importantly, did her dog go in the river?
EG, the Iraqi doctor?
randiego @ 252
You mean Baghdad Year Zero?
john in sacramento @ 273
John, now THAT was impressive! That’s exactly the article, and it’s an important read for everyone interested in how/why we ended up where we are today.
lolo @ 266
No news. He’s not on my immediate team but over the next few years thousands of children will die because he isn’t there, from death or flight.
USA—Beacon of Freedom!! Mission Accomplished, er, not yet, gotta squeeze them til they give up their oil rights.
I think that’s what they mean when they say the Iraqi gov’t “isn’t cooperating.”
And if it takes attacking hospitals and doctors [FOR SHAME] and wrecking clean water supplies and cutting electricity—ooops, did I say that, I meant “enhancing” the electricial supply and killing journalists who are reporting all this and…do you get the picture?
randiego @ 271
landofthefree @ 252
Have we ever see Bay and Pat on TV at the same time?
Pat plus a wig equals rethug diversity.
For the latest news, document dumps, email archives, hearing transcripts and other essential materials in the firings of U.S. attorneys, see:
“The U.S. Attorney Scandal Documents.”
kirk murphy @ 276
Yeah, you put that together with some of the stuff that Michael Moore did in F-911, along with this oil stuff that Eg is ruminating about… conclusions are inescapable. Sick. Embarrassing.
randiego @ 274
I have a curse … useless and semi-useless trivia (sometimes important facts) find a dark recess in my brain and come out in times like this
Lew Koch has a Padilla update two flights up.
If congress needs to go on vacation can they deputize some of us to hold the fort?
To think that any Republican would vote against a fellow traveler is naive at best. Depsite the bluster from Specter et al when push comes to shove they will come through for their Party.
dakine01 @ 281
I left a comment up there for Egregious. I’m outtie – headed to happy hour. peace y’all!
Rayne @ 227
This is exactly right. That’s why Hugh’s List won’t work– it’s too long, and many of those offenses are probably not prosecutable. I take the Molly Ivins approach here: She criticized Democrats for trying to run on their 49 favorite issues, which no one can remember, and she suggested instead picking just 3. That’s the approach we should use here: No more than 5 Articles of Impeachment for each target person, each one supported by firm evidence already in the public domain. At this point, the most important targets are Cheney (must go before Bush) and Gonzo (DOJ is the key to the cover-up), then Bush. AG, VP, & Pres. are all impeachable positions; not sure about Rove.
Bob in HI
landofthefree @ 238
That’s the idea of a Wiki: Like anything in Wikipedia, it can be updated at any time. The current version could be archived once a week. That’s why I call it a “workspace’– because its a product in process.
I think maybe this workspace needs to be in at least 3 parts: One for Bush, one for Cheney, and one for Gonzales. Each of those 3 parts could be stratified: Principal Articles of Impeachment at the top, separated by a divider from “Additional potential articles.” If one of the potential articles gets a flood of new, rock solid evidence, then it could be moved up to replace the weakest of the principal Articles of Impeachment. Each article would be footnoted with critical documents (”Exhibits”), preferably with links to the source.
Bob in HI
Sally @ 132
Alternate explaination:
You know that technique used in mob investigations? start with the little fish, flip him (or prosecute him if he won’t flip) and then move up the food chain?
It’s used in public corruption cases. Maybe they were just trying to flip her and got backed into a corner and had to prosecute her because she wouldn’t flip.
You know, like libby.
Loo Hoo. @ 245
His list is a great place to start, if divided up by Offender and stratified by evidentiary legal support. But his list is way too long.
Five Articles of Impeachment per offender, chosen for having the strongest evidence, and the clearest criminal case (with links to statutory language).
Bob in HI
I realize that no one is probably reading this thread now, but Bob in HI, you rock. I love your idea, especially how we need to focus on actual legal offenses that can result in a conviction. It needs to be a clear, simple list Joe Sixpack can understand. Afterall, almost every Joe Sixpack knows that Bush is a liar, but doesn’t want to be bothered with the minutia that gets people like us really excited. We need to focus on just a few major points in a clear and consice matter.
“Bill Clinton lied about having sex with that woman.” That was to the point. Everyone got it.
the question is, how to you boil down the most important impeachable offenses by each person?
I guess my first stab at it would be for Bush, to say: “George Bush tried to get a nearly comatose Attorney General to certify a domestic spying program so he could continue to spy on political enemies before the 2004 election.”
“Alberto Gonzales fired US Attorneys who were investigating Republicans before the 2006 elections, and he and other political allies threatened the nonpartisan US Attorneys that they’d be fired if they didn’t start investigations of Democrats running for Congress before the 2004 elections. Then, he lied about it to Congress.”
“Dick Cheney lied about Saddam Hussein’s involvement in 9/11 – not only before we invaded and occupied iraq, but even four years later. He lied to the American people to get us into war, and he continues to lie to us to keep us there.”
Okay, these need a lot of work… but it’s a start!
landofthefree @ 290
Thanks! I dropped by to check for follow-up.
Your suggestion makes sense. I’d take it this way: For every impeachable offense, we need several versions:
* The condensed, simplified, Joe SixPack version; and
* The precise, legalistic technical version, with citations and footnotes.
That way, everyone can get it: Joe SixPack, Patrick Fitzgerald, Representative Daftin TheHead, (R-Whoville) and Senator Whitehouse (D-Goodguy)
:-)
Bob in HI
…John Ashcroft who, as it turns out, was 10 times the AG that Gonzales is….
Did ya ever in a billion years think you would read (or write) something like that and agree with it?
The mind boggles.
-mistress
Re Sen. Smith (OR): He *would* be in a tough re-election fight, but there is no prominent Democrat willing to take him on at this point. So far, two of the Dem. US Congressmen have said no (Blumenauer, DeFazio, and there are only two more). And a very popular former Dem. governor (Kitzhaber) has also said no. The congressmen are happy to be in the majority in the congress (finally) and Kitzhaber (an MD) is working on a statewide health plan.