
A few weeks ago, I wondered out loud why Republicans were allowed to lie without consequence in the letters section of my local paper, the StarTribune — especially since I grew up being told by the people who run the letters sections of various papers that letters to the editor had to have a basis in fact. (In fact, it's not just the letters section, and it's not just in the Strib, where Republicans and conservatives and their enablers are held to a lower standard or none at all. But I digress.)
Well, they did it again. Actually, they've done it many times, but this one, done as a slimy response to an excellent column by Joe Conason, whose feet the letter writer is unworthy to lick, was so egregious that I couldn't let it pass unchallenged:
REWRITING HISTORY
The Iraq threat was real
Joe Conason's May 6 column about George Tenet's book took the liberty of furthering the media message of alleged lies by our government when in reality it is his own lies that are most astounding.
He makes generalizations about CIA analysts who didn't believe the warnings of Iraq — where was he when all our allies' intelligence communities had the same analysis about Iraqi weapons of mass destruction? Does he know WMDs were not moved to Syria?
Has Conason conveniently forgotten that Iraq was shooting at U.S. and coalition surveillance jets nearly every day during the period between the Gulf War and the final round of U.N. resolutions?
TERRY W. BRANHAM, LAKEVILLE
Hoo boy. Where do we start here?
First off, there's the bald-faced accusation — an accusation that letter writer Branham utterly fails to back up with actual proof — that Joe Conason lied. That offense alone, back in the old days, would have kept this letter from seeing the light of day.
Second off, our allies didn't exactly put much faith in the war rationales that Bush and Blair were trumpeting. They had good reason to be suspicious, as "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy" instead of the other way around. The only leaders of major European countries to back Bush and his war were the UK's Tony Blair and Italy's Silvio Berlusconi — and both leaders were brought low because of it.
Third off: The whole Syria-has-the-WMD bullshit was eviscerated back in 2005.
Fourth off: Ever since the "no-fly zones" over Iraq were established, Saddam's pilots had been trading potshots with the US and UN pilots in charge of monitoring the no-fly zones, but the US and UN jets were so superior that the Iraqis never came close to shooting any planes down — if they had, Iraq would have been invaded (again) much earlier than March of 2003. Bush was in fact desperate for just such a pretext for war, and at one point considered a scheme involving repainted American U2 reconnaisance planes to lure Saddam into providing Bush with a semi-legitimate casus belli.
Yes, I know that none of this will penetrate the skulls of anyone still making excuses for Bush after six years of his disastrous ineptitude. But I don't want the propagandists who programmed Mr. Branham to think that their bullshit would go unchallenged.
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oh my gosh. there is no shame in denialville.
wow!
I was decvastated for a couple of minutes. Whew!
just a quick add: this entire “move to syria” meme, even when it was new, MADE NO SENSE.
as if saddam would turn over arms to an unfriendly neighbor, let alone at a time when if he had them he would need them to defend against a coming invasion.
the argument was always really the depth of desperate stupidity.
Whatever you do…PLEASE, no pictures: Iraq is ‘facing collapse.’
So great – you didn’t let it go unchallenged. But you challenged it in a forum where Star Tribune readers are unlikely to find it.
Please tell me you sent a reply to Mr Branham to the paper itself.
Don’t you understand, Iraq had to have WMD…Rummy has the reciept!
Plame Seeks Showdown With Cheney
here we go…. A lawsuit brought by a CIA agent whose cover was blown by Bush administration officials, Valerie Plame, is expected to face a withering attack this morning at a court hearing in Washington.
Murray Waas Against the World
A National Journal reporter has fashioned a reputation among his peers: He’s a tough act to follow.
article here
and it was our side that took too much acid ?!?!?
ccmask @ 8
Go Valerie!
Timing couldn’t be better. Temptation on the part of a loyal Bush-appointed judge to sweep it under the rug might be minimized by the current scandals swirling around the DOJ and the White House. The era of Bush is rapidly coming to a close–the pay-offs of continuing to be blindly loyal are evaporating.
I bet this guy, TERRY W. BRANHAM, doesn’t even exist, or, if he does, he works for some REthuglicans. Whatchu bet?
dmg @ 4
You all probably forgot: Saddam SENT HIS ENTIRE AIR FORCE to his real enemy, IRAN, in 1990 to save it from the US Air Force. The General who sent the WMDs to Syria always said it was “off the books”. The ISG just said they could not confirm an official transfer but said they didn’t even try to investigate the unofficial transfers.
Do you not even read the sources you link to?
Hey, you’re back. Firedoflake has been missing all morning, I thought perhaps someone had confused you with Estonia.
Speaking of half truths, the WSJ editorial page has a hooter about msm grabbing onto half truths from the Comey hearing. It basically says that there is nothing to see here, that what Comey really said was that there was no crime committed.
It’s amazing reading through it, it’s longer than usual, trying to figure out how they’re going to turn the facts around to suit them. They do this with economic news all the time – ie. tax cuts are working. It’s nice to see the WaPo editorial page actually have a different point of view for a change.
I don’t have a link because is subscription.
No Consequences –
Do you think that the reason that people aren’t up in arms over the tons of lying that the Republicans have done in the print, on broadcast and to our faces is because we, the Dems, do not publicly call them on it. I’m talking impeachment, if not of the president, then of the Attorney General. If the public does not see a direct correlation between lying your butt off to the public or lying under oath to Congress by being fired or sent to jail then why should they feel the outrage.
Are the Dems actually hurting themselves and helping out the Repubs by not going after them more aggressively?
ccmask @ 9
ccmask–did you actually read the full article? What a nasty piece of work–a real hit job.
The Iraq-DID-SO-have-WMD miscreants remind me of those Japanese soldiers they would find isolated on some island 15-20 years after WWII that never knew the war had ended.
The idea that Syria accept a slew of WMD’s from Iraq would have been sheer suicide for Syria. People who hang onto that fantasy cannot accept that their “American Idol” and his handlers, willfully accepted them and their children as volunteers to fight their fabricated strategic oil war. To see and accept the truth of this entire debacle is unthinkable because, quite frankly, it is humiliating.
Woodhall Hollow @ 11
Gerstein is right–it’ll be a tough slog for the Wilson’s to make their case today. Not because their complaint doesn’t have a lot to back it up. But because it’s a really really tough case to make, and this is not a friendly judge.
Brief ThinkProgress post: Iraq is ‘facing collapse.’
completely OT, but here’s a must read… an excerpt from gore’s new book “The Assault on Reason”… here’s a bit:
What I would have posted earlier.
One, remember Alan Johnson. It is his forty fifth birthday today, and it is 9 weeks since he was kidnapped. The courageous BBC journalist was the only Westerner who lived in Gaza and told it like it was. Whoever is holding him are either incredibly stupid, he was a lifeline to Gaza, or they have another agenda.
Two, and this is back on topic. John Bolton (remember him) on the BBC Today programme this morning accused British Ambassador Greenstock of disloyalty to Tony Blair for seeking a second UN resolution prior to the Iraq war(!!), said much the same thing about the US State Department, advocated bombing the Iran nuclear facilities, denied that the US disbanded the Iraq infrastructure (apparently they left the Ministry of Agriculture alone!!)and denied they disbanded the army. Then for good measure, he said he wasn’t a neocon, that Wolfowitz had done nothing to get fired for, that George Soros was an extreme left-winger, and accused the interviewer John Humphreys, who attacks his targets forcefully whoever they are, of being an extreme left winger, being a superior Brit and being anti-American. The real anti-Americans in the UK, and they are many and increasing by the day, cannot get enough of this. The neocons are manufacturing hatred of the USA and should be stopped.
I want Congress to start the Gonzales impeachment proceeding today. Is there any hope of that?
Woodhall Hollow @ 17
No, not all of it. It’s like 11 pages and I’m at work :))
Hi everyone! Everybody got all the zeds they need?
Woodhall Hollow @ 16
Funny quote, though: Jonathan Broder to Murray in 1998:
Phoenix Woman @ 25
Better red than zed.
This is a great diary over at Kos that examines where we stand as a nation today and the plans that got us here:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/5/17/82615/0119
lisadawn82 @ 16
Part of the problem is that even now, when the Democrats are in the majority, the media refuses to cover them half of the time — whereas any Republican doofus whose spewage reinforces the Bush/GOP party line is guaranteed face time on TV.
BTW what happened to FDL? I was trying to catch up on Late Night when it disappeared, and went missing till a few minutes ago. DOS attack?
dmg @ 1
Exactly.
spurious @ 31
Dunno — I’ll ask the mods. Mods?
lisadawn82 @ 15
Yes, Ds should call them on it all the time. No correlation or consequences, no outrage. And yes, Ds are hurting themselves. Ds should do more. But we do have an inept, lazy, and corrupt media in this country that seems to have become institutionalized and will outlast the age of Bush.
o/t
Iraq-Iranian agreement to lay oil pipeline
link
gets better -
Iran to build 4 Refineries in southern Iraq
link
would certainly explain the renewed sabre rattling now wouldn’t it ?!?!?
Phoenix Woman @ 29
And unfortunately this (plus Rush, et al) is where 95% of the public get their ‘information’.
Sandman @ 23
Are you a Congressman?
As if there isn’t enough bad news:
NPR is reporting that Bo Diddley has suffered a stroke and is in intensive care after a concert in Iowa.
GabrielOak @ 34
yes, make no mistake. the relentless tilting of coverage in msm has not ended with a democratic congress and will not end with a democrat in the white house.
if anything, the yelping hounds will bay with more gusto, convinced that they are behaving “toughly” with any democrat, when really they long ago merely became pliant conduits of repug talking points.
spurious @ 31
cbl (if you’re still about) -
Tied to above question……….couldn’t get to, couldn’t get to, couldn’t get to the Lake so went to the Pond but didn’t find any way to leave a message other than posting to old thread. (This was long before you put up today’s flag). Was gonna do that but the number of comments never changed so figured no one was home. Suggestions for similar occurances in future?
LaFourmiRouge @ 38
:( sad news
CNN tv covering the Comey story…
ccmask @ 24
It is a total hatchet job–the title is completely misleading. The point is to rip poor Murray to shreds, digs into every single personal skelaton that the guy has. I used to live in DC and read the City Paper every week–I am shocked that they have become a Murdoch wanna-be. Really shameful stuff.
GabrielOak @ 33
I agree. The right wing noise machine has ranted about the ‘leftist media’ for so long that most people believe it. The Dems need to continually point out its preference for the right-wing perspective, and use concrete examples; otherwise it just degenerates into name-calling.
morning lakers :o} – amazing that people still buy into repug fallacies…. reinforces my belief that we americans are soooooo STOOPID!!
twolf1 @ 42
more please?
spurious @31
Thought it was just me? Do we know what happened?
This ties into the recent article by a Mr. Sowell for the national review where he says all left wingers are irrationally angry.
I wonder freakin’ why.
I for one am sick of the disinformation, smears and outright lies.
I used Hugh’s list to point out we have 175 reasons and counting to be pissed off.
That doesn’t include things like the Swiftboat vets or the Mighty Wurlitzer cranking out lies 24/7.
twolf1 @ 42
They left out that the President made the call.
They left out that Comey attempted to get Ashcroft to respond coherently.
They left out that Gonzo and Card ignored him.
They left out that Card demanded Comey to come to the WH that night.
They left out that Comey refused to go without a witness.
So sad.
twolf1 @ 43
Bless you, twolf. Had gotten so sick of the “news” that I switched to something less threatening to blood pressure……………
Well, what I caught of it was a rawwwwther nicely damning coverage. *g*
selise @ 47
It was was basically a recap of some of the events that Comey brought to light — the hospital visit et al. No new insight.
you can always go over to http://www.windcatpond.blogspot.com
and
in the past, I have clicked on rss feed here at the lake and added it to my yahoo. from my yahoo, I go to latest thread posted, go to it’s comments section, click on the next post listed, and keep doing that until one arrives at the current thread – a bit tedious, but it usually works when nothing else will :)
So we’re up to 26 US Attorneys—26%.
juslin @ 45
It’s a form of brainwashing. If the right-wing story is all you ever hear all day long, you start to think that maybe that’s the way it is and there’s something wrong with you. That’s why FDL et al. are the only hope of getting us out of this mess.
Spurious: You don’t know how many times I have questioned myself over whether FDL and several other websites was crazy and the rest of the world was sane. I’m still here.
emptywheel says:
May 17th, 2007 at 7:28 am
Gerstein is right–it’ll be a tough slog for the Wilson’s to make their case today. Not because their complaint doesn’t have a lot to back it up. But because it’s a really really tough case to make, and this is not a friendly judge.
But the admin is on record all over the place as saying that this was not official policy, but that their striking back at Joe Wilson was “political hardball”.
Just where is it written that part of the Veep’s job description is political? He presides oveer the Senate and hangs around in case the prez cannot serve – that’s it.
I think they may have a harder time claiming privilege or immunity than they seem to think. (if not in front of this judge, then at the appellate level).
great post, great links which I will save for furture referance, but for one quote which gives too much credit to the claim;
you do point out that our pilots were tasked with getting sadam to fire at us which means my bold shouldn’t even be mentioned, instead the fact that our pilots deliberately caused sadams pilots to fire
OT: Another Bush insider nomination – conflict of interest:
http://www.ombwatch.org/article/blogs/entry/2952/7
cbl @ 10
Exactly. This is true Lizard Brainism in action.
LS @ 7:56 -
Hey, at least they covered it to some degree………it’s reached the stage that I’ll take ANYTHING that gets a bit of truth out.
perris @ 57
Yeah. I knew that our pilots, under orders from Bush/Rummy, had been egging on the Iraqis, but couldn’t find links explicitly showing this.
Waccamaw @ 60
You’re right. I just get ticked off when they leave out the points that made the story the story, if you know what I mean. We deserve more.
Phoenix Woman @ 26
I’ve only gotten one zed evah, and it’s not right!
ccmask @ 55
Me too. And I’m aware that when I try to talk to some people they’re thinking that I’m the one whose brainwashed, or paranoid! What a relief to find others here who see things the same way.
Mods — Your choice on posting this one.
I really wish you’d either disemvowel Liberty Lee’s posts or just ban them completely.
I come to Firedoglake for sensible conversation and to find out what can be done to drag our government out of the Rethugs clutches. If I want to read Republican talking points, all I have to do is look at my local paper.
Please do something about the troll. Thanks!
Brisingamen, I don’t know if it’s fair to call LL a troll. S/he seems polite enough. If we can’t listen to an opposing viewpoint then I would suggest a weakness in our convictions.
I’m just saying.
LS @ 19
And they somehow never, ever think about Bush’s sending “terror suspects” to Syria to be tortured. Why is BushCo so eager to attack Syria when they depend on Syria for much of their dirty work?
ccmask @ 53
What?
cbl @ 53
I DID go to the Pond but there was no place to comment other than old thread. My question was if it was O.K. to add on old thread?
Re. the rss feed stuff…………somehow the idea of trying this on dial-up is making me slightly queasy.
Phoenix Woman @ 30
I totally agree with you on press coverage. But I’m also thinking about stuff like renewing deadlines for subpoena requests and letting the Administration get away with thumbing their noses at us. That makes us look weak. It’s time to aggressively go after the organizations that are balking at handing over Rove’s emails. Also, we should have gone after Monica Goodling. And I mean make her claim her fifth amendment rights before Congress.
While I am usually tolerant and think LL serves a purpose to know the opposition Br# 65 has a valid point that at some point LL is here to disrupt our great discussions.
Phoenix Woman @ 67
You are right. It’s almost as if the U.S. and Syria agree to disagree behind the scenes or something.
debit @ 66
There are already plenty of places we can go to listen to an opposing viewpoint. You know…FOX, CNN, most of MSNBC, NYT, the Washington Post-It…
debit @ 66
I agree. And to be honest, to LibertyLee’s credit s/he has never responded in kind to some of the ad hominum attacks which have been launched at him/her. In my book, trolls are mean nasty people. LibertyLee may be wrong or mislead or ill-informed, but that is not the same thing as nasty.
We are *supposed* to be better than “them” in that respect.
debit @ 66
“One man’s meat…etc.” I live in an area where I hear/see/read this sort of stuff day in, day out. One of the reasons I continued visiting the Lake after the Libby trial is that I didn’t have to read it here too. I’m just tired of it…
OT, but had to ask if anyone caught Hitchens on H&C last night? Wonder what his blood alcohol level was when he went off on Ralph Reed & kept repeating an Abramoff mantra.
Help me figure something out. If the WMDs are in Syria, then what’s Condi doing there? And why did five Republican congressmen-Reps. Frank Wolf, Robert Aderholt, Joseph Pitts, David Hobson, and Darrell Issa-go to Syria the same week Nancy Pelosi did?
They’re not all looking for those WMDs, are they?
Perhaps there’s a troll out there who can riddle me that one.
Jim Clausen @ 72
I won’t argue with you there. But there is always the option to ignore.
Hey Mods, is there anyway we could get an option to flag a poster to auto hide his/her posts?
debit @ 66
Perhaps it’s really satire and not to be taken seriously….just like Rush or Colter.
sorry Waccamaw – a little fuzzy this am -
yes. you can always use the latest open thread
go gotta ‘dogs!
Have a FDL day
mad progressive love to all
Phoenix Woman:
Just rememeber that the letter writer lives in Lakeville, and that he/she probaby elected Norm Coleman to the Senate and John Kline to be his/her CongressCritter. ‘nuf said.
Brisingamen @ 65
Nah, just let her be. Trolls are kind of cute as long as you don’t feed them.
LibertyLee @ 13
Funny, Liberty Lee: None of the sources says what you say they do.
If you can go through any of my links and show where they say point-blank what you say they do, please show us. I dare you.
If you refuse to do so, we’ll take that as an admission that you’re not interested in discussion, but just here to dive-bomb posts and then run away rather than engage.
C’mon, we’re waiting.
There is no conclusive proof that Sadaam did not arrange with his ally Mxyzptlk to store all the WMD in the 5th dimension.
Until we convince him to utter his name backwards we will never know for certain.
Phoenix Woman @ 59
You should know you’re in deep denial when you start channeling the narrator from Plan 9 From Outer Space (”Can you prove it didn’t happen?”)
mc @ 77
I’m not a troll, but I’ll gladly take a crack at that one.
They wanted to get into the actual offices, so they could check where all WMD’s and missing items lurk. Under the desks!
Sandman @ 23
You wish. (So do I.)
I’m getting tired of ‘It will take too long.’ How much public testimony, with or without swearing to tell the truth, do we have to have before we have enough to impeach these guys?
Phoenix Woman @ 83
Please forgive me for not holding my breath.
Mack @ 84
I knew it! The Klingons are hiding the WMD.
oh damn…surfacing just for a sec here — some folks here call me LL for short, but I’m not the LL being discussed here this morning — scout’s honor!
LS at #86 — Issue a spew alert will you?!
*g*g*g*
Thank heavens I’d only picked up my coffee cup, my keyboard and monitor would not have been happy!
Loo Hoo @ 68
Josh
OT – Chimpy/Blair live on CNN/MSNBC from the White House…
mc @ 77
Save that question and shove it all LL next time he/she/it shows up. Watch how fast it runs away. (Don’t forget to ask LL why Bush is poor-mouthing Syria and yet is depending on the Syrians to do what our Constitution, no matter how many holes Bush and Co. have ripped into it, still keeps them from doing on US soil.)
OT but TPM has posted an excellent Comey timeline and his life at the DOJ.
Redshift @ 85
Yeah. None of these have ever heard of William of Ockham.
Mack @ 84
I cannot say with certainty that Saddam did not shrink all his WMD to HO scale and cleverly hide them in his model railroad. Were those inspectors looking for WMD shrunk to HO scale? No! That’s why they didn’t find them!
Good Morning, PW,
regarding the WMD’s being tranferred to Syria, I got into a discussion with a rightard at work about this very thing and asked him to follow the logic of such a preposterous claim.
A ruthless dictator willing to do absolutely anything to maintain his grip on power is facing the most lethal army on the planet with the express goal of “regime change” is planning to go all “shock and awe” all upside his head–and his answer is to ship his weapons out of the country and climb into a hideyhole?
Uh, yeah, that sounds like a plan.
Mack @ 85
I think you misspelled “Mxyzptlk”, but I’m not sure…
Me @ 81:
This says it all. Lakeville Demographics:
PW: Try him with this argument!
The no-fly zones were not legal and violated Iraqui sovereignty, qed Iraq had every right to protect their air-space.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wor…..490361.stm
-snip-
However, unlike the military campaign to expel Iraqi forces from Kuwait, the no-fly zones were not authorised by the United Nations and they are not specifically sanctioned by any Security Council resolution.
-snip-
B & B look like two Manchurian bruthas – one British version and one Mercan version.
JeffinBerlin @ 101
But, but, America has the right to fly anywhere and bomb anyone in order to protect our nation from terrorists. Bush said so.
Okay, EPU’d, but I’m slapping this puppy up here in response to the Ron Paul warnings in previous post comments:
Disclaimer: Just because I think Ron Paul is sane does not mean that I believe everything he believes. I am not a libertarian. I am aware of that fact that, although I agree with him on the Iraq war and his foreign policy stance in general, his principles on domestic issues do not match mine. However, I appreciated very much his candor in the debates and I still think the rest of them are off their proverbial nuts.
I am not an expert on Ron Paul, but I know a little bit about libertarianism.
LS @ 86
Was it a Press Club dinner a couple years ago where they showed a video of Bush looking under the desk and behind the drapes in the Oval Office for the WMD? Ha, ha funny.
Fucking prick.
Perhaps LL can defend that one, too.
debit @ 66
Trolling (think fishing) is not to engage in intelligent discussion, but to throw out a lure to attract (or distract) fish. One post from one troll, and look at all the space that has been wasted already–including this! Back to nonfeeding regimen.
These poor bastards go through all this convoluted bullshit just to avoid the conclusion that they were idiots when they voted for Bush.
Mandrake @ 104
I agree with you. He has a right to have his viewpoint, some of which I agree with. He is not a neocon and is not a rubberstamp game player like the rest of them.
There were weapons of mass destruction. They were ignored, from 2003
Diane @ 76
Didn’t catch that but, boy did he lay the wood to Falwell on Anderson Cooper’s show!
Hitchens slams Falwell’s life
Badwater @ 79
Yeah, I wish all those wingnuts realized that.
O/t (but this one is too good to hold) -
Sherffius produces many jewels……..this one belongs in his crown:
(image dated 5-16-07 since this is not a permalink)
http://cagle.msnbc.com/politic…..rffius.asp
rwcole @ 107
It can’t be good for the environment to generate so much waste heat inside one’s skull, can it?
Waccamaw @ 112
That is hilarious!
Frank33 @ 109
Since when does a rocket-propelled grenade count as a WMD?
spurious, but is it wasted sapce? I’m not saying we should engage (I’m a huge fan of ignoring) but seeing our fine posters calmly prove him/her wrong with simple facts is refreshing.
If we could get this to happen on the news, I’d be over the moon.
OT – Chimpy/Blair being asked questions now…
Waccamaw @ 112
Good one!
Mack @ 84
I hope there are enough old school Superman fans out there to catch that one. Excellent!
twolf1 @ 117
“Question for President Bush. Have you spoken with Rick Santorum about the moral implications of being sucked off by a poodle?”
I have a question. When did Comey say that the “program reauthorization” was about the wiretapping program?
Waving to Mandrake……….
Question for firepups: What *is* the emoti-thingie for waving?
Alrighty, along the same lines, I have a real big problem with Washington Journal failing to correct callers that continue to equate 911 with Iraq.
Now before anyone here instructs me that the moderators are not supposed to comment, I have seen Brian Lamb ask callers who have stated some bit of misinformation, something along the lines of “what do you think about the findings of such-and-such commission which contradicts that?”
He or any of the other moderators could do the same, at least once in a blue moon. Such as “What do you think about the 911 Commission report that states there was no connection between Iraq and 911?”
I realize that the function of the moderators is not to disagree with callers, but sometimes they do ask follow-up questions. And if Lamb, the Father of Cspan, didn’t ask the same kind of questions of callers spouting outright falsehoods on other issues, which I have seen him do many times, I wouldn’t complain.
EvilDrPuma
Some people confuse a mass of destructive weapons with weapons of mass destruction.
That said, hundreds, if not thousands have likely been killed as a result of this negligence.
Phoenix Woman @ 83
All they say is that there is no “official” confirmation they were not moved to Syria. Saddam’s chief General who emigrated to the USA immediately after the invasion wrote a book on the subject…Gen Ali Ibrahim Al-Tikriti confirmed by the No. 2 Air Force Commander Georges Sadr. These were moved outside the Damascus airport in an industrial dump. The Mossad knows where they are…
On topic. From AP:
WMD were beamed up, Scotty is guarding them now.
LS @ 121
I don’t think he specified what exactly was being reauthorized. That it might have been wiretapping seems just to be the “common wisdom.”
LS @ 121
He didn’t. In fact, he steadfastly refused to say what he was talking about. On the other hand, several Senators including Specter and Feinstein made it clear that they understood that it was the wiretapping program which was being discussed. Comey did not contradict them.
Fools, everyone knows the germ-phobic Saddam had the biological labs built underneath his palaces.
Where else would he put them.
-GSD
Mack @ 124
I won’t dispute the casualty count; but it does no good to blur the meanings of words.
LS @ 102
Don’t you mean ‘Merkin?’
Better description? 707!
GeorgeSimian @ 15
Doesn’t matter. I appreciate you sharing because I can not stomach the read!
Hi, Waccamaw! I don’t think there’s a wave emoti-thingie but I could be wrong. I could make one up but I’m not that clever today.
Jim Clausen @ 71
Disrupting your discussions is not what I have in mind. I would like to think I bring facts that are sometimes omitted.
EvilDrPuma @ 127
I never heard him say what kind of program it was. It is being widely “assumed” and broadly reported that was what he was referring to, but until I hear evidence about what program he was referring to really was, I’m going to sit on the fence. Gonzo insisted in his testimony that it was about other “operations” not about wiretapping (not that he has an ounce of credibility, but still).
EvilDrPuma @ 115
It was the US’s (non)post-invasion policy that allowed the weapons to fall into insurgent’s hands in the first place. My understanding was that US troops protected only the Iraqi Oil Ministry building, thus
encouragingallowing looting on a massive scale, not just musuems and office buildings, but the ammo dumps Frank33 mentions.With unprecedented numbers of small arms readily available and the dissolution of the Iraqi Army, what did policy makers think would happen, we’d be greeted as liberators?
Woodhall Hollow @ 128
What Digby Said.
Let’s not forget what the dear Rev. Lowry said about the purported WMD’s. He said it in front of George W. Bush.
Amen to that.
-GSD
Frank33 @ 109
Sorry but RGPs, grenades, mines and other small arms are not “Weapons of Mass Destruction.”
The term “Weapons of Mass Destruction” is a code phrase for Nuclear Weapons, and the US has stated that chemical and biological weapons are the equivalent of WMD.
No WMD were ever found ANYWHERE inside Iraq.
I agree that the items mentioned in the above article should have been secured when we invaded, but then plans should have been in place to prevent the looting of the museums and archaeological sites as well.
STTP in Ohio @ 110
I’m sorry, but that neocon-enabling Hitchens has got a lotta nerve rapping on their fellow enablers: the rapturists.
LS @ 134
I think it’s wise to avoid assumptions on this. It’s enough for us to know, for now, that Comey wouldn’t sign off because there was no basis in law to do so, and that Bush and Gonzo tried to coerce Ashcroft into doing so under highly shifty circumstances. That’s plenty damning for the moment; the details can wait.
mc @ 135
Well, now that you mention it…
Waccamaw @ 123
I haven’t seen anything official, so I am going to propose this;
~~~~~~~ Name ~~~~~~~
EvilDrPuma @ 140
That is exactly what I think.
I like this from Countdown last night:
My bold.
debit @ 116
Me too, on the mainstream news. But not here.
Mandrake (probably get epu’d but will respond anyway) -
Agree with you completely wrt the WashJourno about the lies left floating around. And have you noticed that young female they’ve been having on? Now I know somebody’s gonna slap me down about the *young* and *female* part and I know they gotta bring newcomers along at some point in time but there are plenty of other places I can go on the idiot box if all I want is someone who can read articles from the paper. grrrrrrr.
LS @ 121
I still think Comey’s reticence was about something that we don’t yet know about. Scary.
new threadage, peeps.
Reporter just asked Bush if he sent Gonzo and Card to Ashcroft’s bedside – he answered by fillibustering about the importance of “the program”.
New Thread
~~~~~~~~~~Bustednuckles~~~~~~~~~~
Works for me! *g*
twolf1 @ 93
Is Sarkosy the new Blair?
I consider 600,000 dead Iraqis to be “mass destruction”, and I think 250,000 tons of weapons to be enough to be “weapons of mass destruction”. Which neo-cons allowed the looting of weapons depots ?
do-si-do @ 154
the new thatcher, i fear.
LoudounLib @ 90
We know, LoudounLib. Fear not. :-)
LibertyLee @ 135
Then why haven’t you shown proof of your assertions?
You said that the very links I cited showed that the Iranians allowed Saddam Hussein (their mortal enemy, by the way) to stash his air force in Iran in 1990. Then you ran away without showing a single example to prove your assertions. (Oh, and extra credit to anyone who can tell me what Iran and Iraq had been doing for the ten years from 1980 to 1990 that would have made Iranian cooperation with Saddam’s wishes highly unlikely.)
C’mon, we’re waiting.
STTP in Ohio @ 119
I caught it, just didn’t reply in time. *grins* One of Superman’s more whimsical villians, that one.
Phoenix Woman @ 158
See my post #125. Georges Sada, Number 2 in Saddam’s Air Force wrote a book
Saddam’s Secrets about the WMDs secreted to Syria.
Frank33 @ 155
Oh, Frank: Before your hero Bush invaded Iraq, the ammo dumps were all being monitored and guarded by the IAEA — and they were sealed. Saddam couldn’t have used them.
They only became available to the insurgents AFTER your lovely neocons Bush and Rummy and Cheney had Iraq invaded. But you knew that, right?
Biodun @ 81
A-yep. Typical “don’t you dare spend my tax dollars on black people!” white-flighter, I reckon.
Phoenix Woman @ 161
You KNOW that cannot be right. el-Barradai’s IAEA had only sealed those nuclear sites Saddam TOLD them about. Not the ones he secreted to Syria. Besides the other weapons caches were all chemical and other lethal munitions but the terrorists have converted dual use sites to IEDs now with Iranian help.
Dumbwya @ 12
easy enough to check on whitepages.com…
No!, not my hero!
But again paranoia about the looting, I think “Imperial Life…” by Chandrasekaran mentions a list of Iraqi institutions that needed protection. Once it got to Rumsfeld’s Shop the list was thrown away. I have no doubt that the Army guys knew that weapons depots would also be looted. Take your pick: Too few troops or well armed chaos?
Great catch and great post.
OMEGA?
Everyone knows the weapons are buried in Iraq somewhere north, east, south, and west.
“The only leaders of major European countries to back Bush and his war were the UK’s Tony Blair and Italy’s Silvio Berlusconi…”
YOU FORGOT POLAND
or have I heard that before somewhere?
Also Espaa? Remember what happened to Aznar?
Liberty Lee, please go and read the Iraq Study Group report or, if you prefer, the Report to the President on WMD, which states:
Extensive post-war investigations
were carried out by the Iraq Survey Group (ISG). The ISG found no evidence
that Iraq had tried to reconstitute its capability to produce nuclear weapons
after 1991; no evidence of BW agent stockpiles or of mobile biological weapons production facilities; and no substantial chemical warfare (CW) stockpiles or credible indications that Baghdad had resumed production of CW after 1991. Just about the only thing that the Intelligence Community got right was its pre-war conclusion that Iraq had deployed missiles with ranges exceeding United Nations limitations.
I am embarrassed that any American would be so totally ignorant of such well-known facts as to whether there were WMDs in Iraq.
libertylee lol!The Mossad knows where they are… Yes, yes! Those cunning jews know the truth!
The truth was saddam was a defanged dictator who served as a bullwark against al-queda and iran – the shia in the south are now iran’s natural allies and bush having opened pandora’s box has created the shiite crescent and helped his enemy – he has also weaked american power and influence around the world with this folly and the horrors it prodiced like abu ghraib which was on HIS watch – enjoy what you’ve been cheering for ll – it comes at a cost none of us can imagine because the consequences will still be reverbating for far longer than we can predict -
You KNOW that cannot be right. el-Barradai’s IAEA had only sealed those nuclear sites Saddam TOLD them about. Not the ones he secreted to Syria. Besides the other weapons caches were all chemical and other lethal munitions but the terrorists have converted dual use sites to IEDs now with Iranian help.
astounding! what a tool you are and a victim of propaganda too. I’ll bet you never noticed on fux news that rummy left an enormous cache of weapons unguarded after the invasion and they were stolen and some people think they’ve been used to help arm the insurgents and those that are waging civil war. google it – someone at this board will post the link for you no doubt if you wank enough (not me:) – stop with the iranian crap too – bush made them stronger and they didn’t have to lift a finger! say it with me, “the shiite crescent!” phrase didn’t exist before bush’s war mongering crusade.
LS @ 49
Let’s hear it for PBS, then. Last night’s news gave it 10 mins, covered most of the above, PLUS Mueller’s instructions to the FBI guys not to allow Comey to be removed from the room,
PLUS the smackdown:
COMEY: “After the way you behaved… I want a witness”
GONZO & CARD: “We only came to wish him well”
COMEY: “I said, after the way you behaved, I want a witness”
So who DOESN’T want to impeach Gonzo today? And why?
selise @ #156 is spot on in her answer to do-si-do’s question “Is Sarkosy the new Blair?” (#154).
He will entrench the divides already apparent among the haves and have nots and stoke communal tensions along religious and racial lines just as Thatcher did. The French, however, have a penchant for storming the Bastille.
France has always craved the role of leadership in continental Europe and Sarkozy is not going to play the poodle to a powerless eunuch across the pond. He is too astute for that.
The French Constitution does not grant the President the same executive licence to establish his/her fiefdom as civil service and judicial appointments must be based on peer selections, vetted by the Parlement which the President approves. A lot depends on what happens in the forthcoming elections to the Assemblee Nationale of the Parlement – the French Right may not have an outright majority forcing the Prime Minister to seek compromises, even if the PM is a Presidential appointee.
LibertyLee @ 163
Why in heaven’s name would Saddam dream of secreting his nuclear capabilities in Syria when Syrian and Iraqi Ba’ath parties were at each others’ throats for 30 years? What would be the point of developing a nuclear capability for your enemy?
LL – you really ought to read The Prince by Machiavelli – you divide your enemy to weaken not strengthen.
ps – Iraqis don’t need Iranian help to for bombs. Never mind the fancy lingo of IEDs, they are bombs, you know the sort the IRA used to use and Basque sepapratists still do sporadically?
Sorry LL, I’m curious as to your background – you sound so hopelessly uneducated and uninformed.
PW, you make me proud to be a woman. TY for all of your work here of late. It has been illuminating, indeed. Just expressing my thanks.
sona @ 172
Sorry to point this out, but we had that here, too.