I invited Tom Schaller (author of Whistling Past Dixie) here today to discuss his recent article in the Baltiore Sun because I think what he's saying is extremely important and deserving of much more attention, especially as we head toward the '08 election and misguided pollsters seem to be urging Democratic candidates into a "center" which Schaller contends no longer exists.
I'm going to quote extensively from the article here because I can't say it any better:
We are fast approaching a critical moment in American politics. To fully appreciate what's happening, you need only to understand the difference between a camel and a dromedary.
The one thing media talking heads agree upon is that the center prevails. Turn on almost any of the nation's political talk shows and pretty soon somebody will say how crucial it is for politicians to appeal to registered independents and self-described moderate voters.
They conjure for us an image of the distribution of the American electorate as that of a dromedary's single hump with a large, vital center of thoughtful citizens in the middle, flanked by a downward-sloping share of shrill, radical liberals on one side and grumbling, reactionary conservatives on the other.
In fact, the American electorate has for some time been bifurcating into two rather distinct camps, with fewer centrist voters. The true image is that of the two-humped camel.
On a panel at a Chicago convention of political scientists recently, Emory University's Alan Abramowitz explained what's happening.
"Independents made up 35 percent of the 2006 voters, more than either Democrats or Republicans," Mr. Abramowitz said, based on his analysis of data from the 2006 Cooperative Congressional Election Study. "But most of these independent identifiers were not true swing voters – most of them leaned toward one party or the other, and these leaning independents voted overwhelmingly for their preferred party."
Mr. Abramowitz added this key point: "Moreover, Democratic leaners were just as liberal as other Democrats, and Republican leaners were just as conservative as other Republicans."
Sure, millions of Americans refuse to register with either of the major parties, and they avoid the labels "liberal" or "conservative" to describe themselves ideologically. But what matters more than how they fill out registration forms at their county board of elections or define themselves when pollsters call is the policy opinions and attitudes they espouse and how those opinions translate into votes.
On that score, Mr. Abramowitz demonstrates that not only are liberals and conservatives voting more predictably for Democrats and Republicans, respectively, but their social and economic attitudes are becoming more internally consistent. He says it is easier today to predict, say, how a voter feels about stem cells based on her position on tax policy.
"To a much greater extent than in the past, voters' opinions on economic, cultural and foreign policy issues are closely interconnected with Democrats overwhelmingly on the liberal side of almost every issue and Republicans overwhelmingly on the conservative side of almost every issue," Mr. Abramowitz says.
America seems to be coming to the end of a period of partisan dealignment that began with the civil rights movement and the Vietnam War. The so-called vital center is collapsing.
This completely flies in the face of every bit of conventional wisdom (meager though it is) floating around DC which says that the Democrats should stand for nothing, limp toward the center and throw a "big tent" over every principle so as not to "alienate" a constituency it appears does not really exist. Cue the GOP:
Republicans figured this out years ago. Before the 2000 recount had concluded, Bush campaign pollster Matt Dowd wrote Karl Rove a game-changing memo in which Mr. Dowd marveled that the center of the American electorate had disappeared. They had expected split-ticket voters to account for about one-quarter of the electorate, but the figure was closer to 6 percent.
Mr. Rove promptly announced he would target for mobilization millions of evangelicals who did not turn out to vote in 2000.
Bush is monumentally unpopular, the Republicans are still trying to shake off the '06 whipping they got, and yet witness each of the candidates in the GOP debates competing to be more extreme, more authoritarian, more torture lovin' and woman-hating than the next ("double Guantanamo?" Did he really say that?) Not a one of them trying to enfranchise some mythical centrist vote. They know where the numbers are.
Now I realize that it's probably easier for the GOP to come to grips with the fact that their future rests with white males than for Democrats to acknowledge that theirs doesn't. Witness this report by Third Way (PDF) (summed up by Chris Cillizza here ) which concludes that the future of the Democratic party rests with "white, higher-income, male and rural voters." Schaller effectively dismantles this balderdash here, but the report is embarrassing in its short-sighted, shallow massaging of statistics to achieve a conclusion that is breathtaking in its ignorance.
Schaller has another piece up today in the Sun which asserts that single women are a "sleeping giant" for the Democratic party, something we've been pushing for a long time (and a bandwagon onto which Hillary Clinton climbed yesterday).
Schaller:
Whether they are divorced, separated, widowed, not yet married, or legally prevented from marrying their same-sex partner, almost half of all American women over 18 are unmarried. Soon they will be a majority.
But turnout among unmarried women – just 59 percent in the 2004 presidential cycle – was significantly lower than the 71 percent rate among married women. In the 16 states where Women's Voices ran targeted mobilization campaigns, however, the rate of increased turnout for what the group prefers to call "women on their own" was twice the rate of increase in the other 34 states.
Everybody knows Democrats fare better among women than men. But Republicans win among white women and married women.
Even in 2006, the best Democratic midterm cycle since 1974, Republicans narrowly won both groups.
The Democrats' gender gap thus derives from the party's wide support among unmarried women and nonwhite women. In fact, in 2006 unmarried women chose Democratic congressional candidates by the eye-popping margin of 66 percent to 32 percent.
Along with union households and racial minorities, these unmarried women helped the Democrats erase Republican majorities in Congress, among governors and in the state legislatures.
After the election, Greenberg Quinlan Rosner Research conducted a poll for Women's Voices of 1,000 unmarried American women. They found that unmarried women are particularly motivated by "an agenda for change," specifically on issues related to health care and ending the war in Iraq.
"It is clear that these women can and should be reached," the report stated about the 20 million such women who are either unregistered or who are registered but do not vote. "By gender and marital status, they are the largest group on the sidelines of democracy, and they have an agenda that calls for major change."
Attitudes among unmarried women are hardly monolithic. Younger and minority women, who are less likely to vote, especially in off-year congressional cycles, are more concerned with education and employment issues. Not surprisingly, older women express greater interest in the war, prescription drugs and pay equity.
What unifies this emergent bloc of potentially pivotal voters is their dissatisfaction with the direction of the country. They also have a dismal view of politicians and the political system: More than half say that politicians "don't listen to people like me," and almost half agree that "government doesn't do anything to solve my problems, whether I vote or not."
Social scientists call this phenomenon "low-efficacy." But Democrats should translate it into three words: huge electoral opportunity.
Please welcome Tom Schaller in the comments. His political insights are something that the DC establishment resists mightily, but the fact remains that there is a strong argument to be made that speaking to the progressive concerns of the party's base does not drive the Democrats over the liberal cliff but is rather the road that leads to electoral victory.
Related posts:
- Election 2009: What Happened in Virginia?
- GOP Fearmongering Succeeds in Casting Doubt on Legitimacy of the Electoral Process
- Political Expert Steve McMahon Advises Democrats How to Fail On Health Reform
- RNC Ad Compares Pelosi to Pussy Galore — Time For Women to Exit the GOP?
- Obama’s Numbers Driving Democrats Down





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ZeD☼
Hi Tom! Welcome!
Welcome, Tom. Thanks so much for being with us today.
As with all chats, please stay on topic and take all OT comments to the previous thread.
thanks, all, and thanks especially to jane for inviting me and always supporting me and my work. she is, as we can all agree, a national treasure.
so, let’s get to debating….fire away when you’re ready!
I can well imagine that your conclusions have not been readily embraced by those who want to nudge the party into standing for nothing, but such “leadership” always sounds like the Unity ‘08 crowd — “the party can only survive if it agrees with me.”
Hi Tom and welcome.
I am wondering if this potential voting bloc could somehow be wooed in a manner similar to the fifty state model,your thoughts?
Jane Hamsher @ 5
Well, Jane, I find it interesting that Dems are always rewarded or legitimated by the conventionally wise and the talking heads when they move right, and the GOP is too when they move….right!
the country is polarizing, and that’s NOT a bad thing. we are, i hope, finally bifurcating into two, increasingly distinct parties and that, to borrow a phrase from a famous conservative, provides a choice rather than an echo.
What will it take to get the Democrats in Congress (and in the leadership elsewhere) to recognize that the moderates they keep trying to appeal to aren’t there any more, and that the base of the party is all to the left of them?
Bustednuckles @ 6
Sure, why not, although I haven’t dug deeper into the stats to see if there are state-level effects, thought surely there must be some. Obviously, widows are going to be more common in states with greater retiree populations, e.g.; on the other hand, younger states with young women may have unmarried women who are just not yet married b/c they are pursuing professional agendas and grad school and otherwise delaying marriage; and then states with high divorce rates (ironically, the southern states among them) will have high shares of unmarried women.
but, you’ve now given me more work to do!
Hi, Tom! Welcome to the Lake!
Your thesis is interesting, but I’m having trouble with it. First, I associate it too much with the wedge politics of Newt Gingrich and Karl Rove, so for starters its distasteful.
More importantly, however, it ignores a recent fact of over-riding importance: What do you do with the people who voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004, but who voted for Democratic representatives in 2006? Weren’t there millions of those?
I’d say that there are indeed two major voting blocks: Those who vote Democratic 95% of the time, and those who vote Republican 95% of the time. But I think that leaves a whole lot of people left over who don’t vote a straight party line. There are Greens, there are Libertarians, there are Independents, and there are plain old ticket splitters. I really think we ought to be paying more attention to them.
Bob in HI
P J Evans @ 8
It appears that the Joe Liebermans and the Unity ‘08 crowd who use disingenuous appeals to “bipartisanship” get more airtime than their constituencies deserve. Nice buzzwords that probably poll well but really have no political impact.
P J Evans @ 8
Well, for one thing, an occassional protest vote by the liberals and the Progressive Caucus wouldn’t hurt. Second, it will help that Media Matters and other groups are (finally, if slowly) convincing the natl media that there is a severe under-representation of liberal-progressive voices on radio and tv.
overall, it’s a self-feeding loop–more power means more voice and more votes which means more power. we’ve seen this model work for the conservative base of the GOP, and now it’s time to flip the script, as they say.
So then, it is not a good idea for any political candidate for any office to play to the ‘center’?
Tom,
What do you think of the economic populism or fairness message as a way to mobilize voters. Would you consider that just another way of moving to the center? Or is it a true progressive vision for America. It seems that a lot of the nascar types or white working class people can be moved by this. even in the south.(Webb in VA) or in the West (Schwietzer or Tester)
Hello and welcome!
How important is the platform of the party in the success of an individual candidate? For example, Landrieu is thought to be the most vulnerable dem senator- another victim of Katina perhaps. How important will the party platform (as negotiated at the convention) be in her success or failure?
Bob Schacht @ 10
Hey Bob in HI…with all due respect, don’t underestimate the power of wedge politics: they work. and right now i think the wedge issues, which used to work against dems, are working for them, including immigration, which is eating the GOP alive, and stem cell research.
the tip of the wedge is the progressive movement–dems should force the GOP to make hard choices between, say, religio-conservatives who hate stem cell research and their soccer moms; or cultural, english-only types who want giant border fences and wall street types who want cheap, dominatable labor supplies.
wedge politics work, and should work better if dems knew how to play tougher.
hey tom, billy here. how do we make this group of unmarried females who don’t tend to vote as much and as often start to vote more? and we still need to realize that the south is going to continue growing in population so we have to deal with it sooner or later! hopefully some of the growth will be in outsiders who are more favorable to our side!
Mr Schaller…
It seems to me that Third Way is really little more than a front group for investment bankers who are “liberals”. Heres the background of their board of trustees.. (financial industry background is bolded…the three people with no listed financial industry background are italicized.)
the founder and president of Cullman Ventures, Inc., a diversified corporation…..
oversaw investments in private equity funds and hedge funds…
Chairman of Millbrook Capital Management, Inc., a private investment firm…
Chairman and CEO of the Dyson-Kissner-Moran Corp., a privately owned, diversified investment holding company…
global head of equity trading for Goldman, Sachs…
has directed investments in industries [and was formerly an] investment banker at Quadrex Securities Group and an attorney specializing in corporate and securities law…
Chief Executive Officer of Vail Resorts [and formerly] associated with Apollo Management L.P., a New York based investment fund [and] in the Mergers and Acquisitions department of Drexel Burnham Lambert…
the first woman to achieve the rank of three-star general…
Managing Director and Co-head of the Global Financial Institutions Group at Morgan Stanley’s Financial Institutions Group…
President of Lincoln Center for the Performing Arts…
…partner at Bingham McCutchen LLP [and] developed legislative and regulatory strategies for clients involved in corporate mergers, professional and amateur sports, commercial aviation, utility and banking regulation, and legal process reforms…
President & CEO of the ONE Campaign [formerly] Chief of Staff to Senator Harry Reid…
one of America’s most innovative and successful mall developers…
responsible for all aspects of fund management, including manager due diligence, strategy analysis and asset allocation…
chairman and CEO of BLS Investments [and formerly] chairman of the board and chief executive officer of Loral Space & Communications Inc…
Chairman of StoneWater Capital LLC, a fund-of-funds management firm…
24 years of experience in venture capital and specialized equity investing…
active in the field of finance for more than 50 years…
one of the leading attorneys practicing in the merger and acquisition arena…
Third Way’s administrative management is heavy on former officials at Americans for Gun Safety, which bills itself as a “bringing a new, centrist perspective” [not progressive perspective] to the gun control debate. Its talking points on the Estate Tax instruct progressives to pretty much ignore the estate tax, and concentrate on other issues. And one need only look at their New Rules Report and its criticism of what it calls “neo-progressives” to see the clear pro-corporation bias of Third Way.
Given the need for funding of a multitude of pre-existing truly progressive “think tanks”, would we be justified in suspecting that Third Way is “faux-progressive” and was created a little over two years ago primarily to advance the interests of the financial industries.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 13
I think every time we get “sista soulja’d” it plays into right wing narratives and disempowers and fragments the base. It may reap short-term political gain for a particular candidate but if I understand what Tom is saying it does nothing to build a strong, solid constituency that will support the Democratic party consistenly over time.
His article indicates that single women don’t think anyone speaks to them. They are overwhelmingly progressive. That’s a problem.
Tom, What happened to the middle? Was it ever there? If so, where did it go and why?
“the center” is, of course, a logical fiction. The degree to which a candidate is seen as LEFT RIGHT or center depends on their position on a variety of issues.
Should a congressional candidate in rural Idaho take a position in favor of gun control?
Willie Stark @ 14
No, no, no….I don’t think economic populism is moving the center. I just don’t think it will work as well in the (white) south, and for two reasons—racial polarization and low unionization. but here’s a quick excerpt from a piece I wrote not long ago in response to Bob Moser (whom I respect) aftet his Nation piece last fall:
The problem, however, is that the transformation Moser envisions is easier to prescribe than effect. The reasons are manifold, but space permits me to handle just two: race and unionization.
Moser brushes quickly past race, a curious oversight given that most every study of political tolerance (racial or otherwise) reveals a strong, positive relationship between socioeconomic status and tolerance. As Steve Jarding and Dave “Mudcat” Saunders painstakingly chronicle in Foxes in the Henhouse, poverty in the rural white South is both appalling and appallingly resilient. Combine high poverty rates with their concomitant lower levels of racial tolerance, mix in residual tensions from the civil rights movement, and you understand why the poorest region of the country is the most Republican–despite the massive head start African-American voters provide Democrats.
In fact, analyses of the 2004 National Election Study reveal that neither attitudes on national defense nor abortion explained the Republican presidential preferences of white Southerners; negative racial attitudes did. How else to explain that in Mississippi, where poor whites and blacks live alongside each other, the former vote overwhelmingly Republican while the latter just the opposite? If economic populist appeals were unmediated by race, such glaring polarities simply could not exist.
Organized labor’s meager presence in the South also reduces the appeal of economic populism. For the past half-century, the Southern states have consistently ranked among the least unionized. The GOP’s chokehold on working-class white males is significantly weaker among retirees, union members and those living in union households. Because labor leaders organize voters around populist themes, their relative absence makes the “old South” economic appeal a much harder sell.
In 2006 nonunion-household voters split between the parties (49 percent each), but union households broke for the Democrats 64 percent to 34 percent. Connect this fact with low Southern unionization and, sure enough, in their party’s best midterm cycle in thirty-two years, Democrats carried every region but one–the South, which they lost by eight points, according to exit polls.
paul lukasiak, you are a treasure
I’m curious about the notion of “Moderate” vs the notion of someone being true to their beliefs.
I think the Dems get pilloried (and rightly so, I think) for abandoning their beliefs to find common ground, when there are times that the common ground is noxious and you need to stand fast to your principles. I also believe that people respect those who have principles and stand by them. (I think it got Bush re-elected because he seemed to have a spine and Kerry, sadly, did not.)
So, after that wordy build-up, is part of the issue that not only are people flocking to the edges of the political spectrum, but that they are intolerant of those who don’t have any idea where they stand?
Hi, Tom. I think your two-humped camel describes me pretty well–I am not, and do not anticipate ever being, registered as a member of a political party. This is not because I think both of the big parties are the same (although there seem to be more Democrats who want to play at being Republicans than vice versa!). Rather, I see too much historical pattern of corruption when any political party gains the ascendancy to really feel happy about offering that degree of support. But, I invariably choose the Democratic candidate in any two-way race, and my personal politics are somewhere in a Gandhiesque neighborhood.
I won’t copy P.Lukusiak’s whole post, but shit–even I had not bothered to look at who’s who behind Third Way. Very, very revealing.
Incidentally, I sent a personal email to JIm Kessler and Ann (forget her last name) at Third Way telling them that I was taking issues with their report, and that they should feel free to reach out to me directly. I fight hard, but fair.
So far, no word as of yet.
I’m also having lunch next monday with Bill Galston, who i respect but with whom I have some fundamental disagreements. Lunch was set up but mutual friend Jon Rauch, who is not partisn but is generally centrist. I hope to persuade them they’re a few years behind in their narratives. The both believe the center is huge and meaningful.
rwcole @ 21
“The center” is also defined by the person or group speaking about or defining it. Faux News has a much different assessment than KO.
So I can equate the over dramatization of the center to be as actual as the proverbial 200 MPG carburetor?
Hi Tom, welcome to the Lake. I have been saying for some time the more people would vote Dem if there was actually a Dem candidate, not just Republican lite. And it seems that you have numbers to support my admittedly not scientific gut feelings.
In my experience, the grassroots hunger and thirst for a real alternative. But over and over I see a the ‘grownups’ in the Dem party giving us nice, polite, moderate candidates. I am beginning to feel that this is not simply resistance to change. Do you have any sense that this is so, or where it might be coming from?
Mutant Poodle @ 24
AHHHHH…THIS IS EXACTLY THE POINT. One person’s definition of “moderate” differs from another’s. Giving people just three choices–liberal, conservo or mod–on a poll almost automatically steers a whole bunch of folks toward “moderate.”
but the real question is “what do people, no matter their label of self-description, think or believe?” the answer is that a majority of moderates are really liberals who prefer not to call themselves moderates.
read this powerful piece by my good friend Paul Waldman:
http://www.prospect.org/cs/art….._moderates
hey tom, billy again. back in the 06 elections, much was made of the fact that quite a few of the Dem new winners were from a more moderate wing of the party, such as Shulers win in NC, and they got elected by appealing to social traditional, almost conservative voters, rural folks. if we polarize to the 2 ends, how do we keep them on our side?
tom schaller @ 26
Go on.
JANE!!! – hey tom welcome to the lake
No one I know is in the center. They are on one side or the other. I think rwcole is right when he says it is a logical fiction. It is where “the wise men of Washington” think they are when they pontificate to the rest of us. Like so much else in media it is a construct which we are in the process of tearing down.
Tom. Welcome to FDL on behalf of us pups. Glad to see you in my local paper (we got a typo upstairs). I’m hoping that both parties will appeal to their bases: Republicans to warmongering country-clubbers and Dems to everyone else. Ought to be an interesting race, especially if we have several impeachments going on at once.
Have we stalled out? IF so, I’m entitled to make shameless plugs:
Barring edits that leave me on the cutting room floor, I should be quoted as part of a segment taped today for this Saturday’s CBS Evening News on 2008 and the significance of the South. Check it out!
I am interested in seeing Mary Bono knocked off in the California Desert. She is in a district that has a three percent republican advantage according to Cook. How can a dem candidate take her on successfully. Will the successful candidate position themself to her left on all major issues- or try to blur differences on all issues but the one they choose to run on?
In other words, how do actual politicians running in actual races make use of the two humped camel metaphore?
I find this topic very interesting.
The center seems a dull and flaccid place to live.
if the dems would be DEMS all this talk would become moot – dems will never be overwhelmingly elected if they equivocate and try to run as repugs-lite….
tom schaller @ 22
I like to think that the base of my party, the Democratic Party is left of center, or if you will “progressive”. Is my perception on target? This is a serious question. A very serious question, for one who is just about feed up with his party.
Tom, I live in the south, but was raised in the bluest of northern states. I would be very pleased to see the South become irrelevant in terms of national politics. We as a country have been held hostage by these thugs since reconstruction. Can we please let go of the 19th Century, people?
Gnome de Plume @ 34
The real key finding in Alan Abramowitz’s new study is how much greater correlation there is now between the SOCIAL and ECONOMIC dimensions of the public. That is, there used to be more of what we called libertarians (conservative on economics, liberal on social issues) and what we might call traditionalist progressives (just the reverse). so, while it was always pretty easy to figure out where somebody stood on choice based on where they were on gay rights, but not where they stood on choice based on tax cuts, it’s increasingly easier to discern voters’ social positions from their economic opinions and vice versa.
all of which means that not only is the center collapsing b/c of bifurcating coalitions, but each coalition is more INTERNALLY cohesive and consistent. like i said, good news for those of us who want a system with two, strong, distinct parties. (with one stronger than the other!)
Welcome, Tom.
How do I go about persuading women to register to vote?
What I hear over and over is “my one vote doesn’t matter” and “all politicians are dirty” and “the election is fixed anyway.”
Jane Hamsher @ 23
fools gold, perhaps ;)
****************
Tom, it seems to me that the idea that there is not much “center” to speak of is based in large part on the lack of ticket splitters.
Could this phenomenom not be attributable to the lack of a center, but rather to the sense that the parties themselves are increasingly polarized, and that there is a “center” that will change their “party line” vote based on which party is more to their liking?
It seems to me that the Pacific Northwest tends to lean liberal Dem as Bush gets waxed evry chance we get.
Saying this , I see pockets of die hard Republicans here and there.
Could it be feasable for a Dem to use your observations to succesfully pull moderate Repubs across the line?
What would you recommend as a strategy?
Thanks for stopping by.
Why are ‘Democratic-leaning independents who vote Democratic’ (and Republicans on the other side) labeled ‘Independents’ at all? Doesn’t the fact that they vote Democratic pretty much make them Democrats? Especially if the concept of ticket-splitting is as much of a fiction as it seems? Who are these ‘independent voters?’
the center is for those with backbone imo stand for something – already they’re backing off bench marks to end the war
Willie Stark @ 40
Seems a bit dangerous to speak about “the south” in global terms. Florida is different- Virginia is different. North Carolina is different. Arkansas is different- and so is Louisiana..
Dem candidates can and have won in these states- and in many cases things are moving in their direction.
There are votes there that should not be abandoned.
Margot @ 44
Margot, when I hear this I tell the person that that is exactly what they want you to think. They made it dirty and unappealing so that you won’t pay attention and won’t vote.
Tom Schaller 30 — that Waldman article is interesting:
Then you hear Chuck Schumer saying stuff like:
You have to wonder who he’s appealing to, and at what cost.
I remember in 2004, when I was in charge of the county precinct structure. We were targeting single women then. But that consisted of making them the top priority calls–not in reaching out to them differently or with a tailored message. Kerry’s message, as it was, just wasn’t doing it. Had he emphasized a key issue for him–energy independence–we might have been better. I don’t know what else would have made these women get jazzed over Kerry’s canned presentation.
Part of which makes me think our emphasis needs to be on getting these women to primaries, not general elections. If we let the male CW-fans pick our candidate, no wonder that candidate isn’t going to appeal to the single women.
And then I think about knocking doors for Dean in IA. We got a lot of people–women and men–who were working night jobs who at least SAID they’d love to vote for Dean at a caucus. Of course, in IA, people who work nights are effectively disenfranchised, as are people who can’t/can’t afford to get a babysitter. What are the other institutional factors that make it a lot harder for this democgraphic to get involved early in the process?
tom schaller @ 36
We’ll keep an eye out. I’ll alert the Amato.
tommytimp @ 47
Well, keep in mind that “independent” in reference to voters is a BEHAVIORAL measure–it’s quite literally which party they register with; whereas “moderate” is an ATTITUDINAL measure. so, w/r/t to indies, we can say these people are registered Indy, but of course they either don’t have indy or third-party candidate to vote for, or when they do, still choose largely from the two majors. so, what really matters (just like the underlying attitudes of “moderates” is what matters) is their prevailing voting behaviors.
on that count, sure, indies are more likely to split tickets or crossover than registered Rs or Ds….but as alan abramowitz has shown, most are increasingly behaving (because voting, too, is a behavioral measure) like R’s or D’s when it comes to vote.
which, after all, is what really matters, at least insofar as elections and control of government is concerned. (it’s not everything, but it’s a big deal…you know, voting and shit.)
seriously, though, what matters most is how people vote–not how they register or describe themselves. if 10% of the population identify themsleves as “banana splits” but they voted uniformly democratic, which matters more?
The choice question is a very valid one to ask when trying to penetrate the South.
But with candidates like Rudy G. (pro choice) or McCain or Romney, neither of which are very strong on choice, at least from the perspective of those hard social conservatives who care enough about choice that it is their single issue …I like our chances.
the link to the Center for Rural Strategies poll is here: http://www.ruralstrategies.org…..006.2.html
And what about so called “moderates”. Is that the same as being in the center? When I ask my self-proclaimed moderate friends to define what exactly a moderate is, they come up with answers like ‘I’m conservative on some issues and liberal on others, and in between on most’. How do we deal with that?
Gnome de Plume @ 51
How to get women registered and voting? There’s lots of new ideas about this, and this is somewhat out of my field (pun intended) of expertise. but much of it has to do with individual contacting by, usually, other women. i would recommend consulting page gardner and the smart folks at Women’s Voices about this. I also know that, whatever else one thinks of hillary, her team is gearing up for one of the most amazing voter registration and mobilization drives for women (particularly under-35 women) in american history. if she runs, that is a major upside of her candidacy.
Willie Stark @ 56
Thanks, WIllie. Rock on…
RANDOM SCHALLER PREDICTION:
IF WE HAVE A SAME-STATE GENERAL ELECTION MATCHUP, IT’S MORE LIKELY TO BE TENN V. TENN THAN NY V. NY.
emptywheel @ 53
And what do you think is the best way for candidates to try and enfranchise single women voters? Or is it anything that they can effect? Is it going to be more of an infrastructure problem?
I appreciate Hillary Clinton going after them, and her position as a woman does help, but her message is often not necessarily in line with issues that single women care about. Is anyone going to be able to speak to this constituency enough to make them believe that they have a voice?
tom schaller @ 60
Bingo!
“centerist” can be applied to political parties- and to individual candidates.
A candidate running in San Francisco, say, is unlikely to want to be seen as a centerist. A dem running in Nebraska may well wish to be seen that way.
What determines who a PARTY is seen? Is it the sum perception of all the candidates running? Or is it the “platform” that the party lathers over the top of the whole shebang to make it look like a cake?
Welcome, Tom. Great article. Is the “center” really just a collection of folks who haven’t the time or inclination to figure out just which side they are on?
Does anyone think that one way to increase the turnout of unmarried women would be to point out that the higher turnout by women like themselves can have a strong impact on elections?
tom schaller 58 — we’ve long supported WVWV’s efforts. Some (and I think it was Markos, but don’t quote me) actually suggested that with so many single women unregistered that NARAL and PP get into doing this. I really don’t know what kind of limitations would be on them getting involved in this arena, but it seems like it might be effective.
Jane Hamsher @ 61
HEY, MARCY!
i leave it to the experts to figure out unique ways to register these women, but the key, as ever, is reaching people where they live (literally and metaphorically). that means day care centers, that means community colleges, that means senior centers.
“moderates’ and ‘centrists’ are admired by people who don’t vote for them.
emptywheel @ 53
Do you think that the lead for the campaign might have set the tone for that? I have a suspicion that happened. Gender-blindness based in one’s social capital, I thought at the time…
Margot @ 44
Margot, I am going to do my best to hunt down a document that laid out the case for why one vote matters. I know it was the difference in many key elections, just one vote could have changed history. In my state, in my county, six precincts that undervoted by 100 votes each cost us the state senate and put us in a financial crisis (emptywheel can vouch for the seriousness of the crisis). That was 1 in every 12 voters saying the same thing: My vote doesn’t count; why should I vote? Because it does make a huge difference.
I’ll also point to AAUW’s Woman-to-Woman Voter Turnout GOTV effort. AAUW is a strong proponent of equity in education for women, but it’s not just education for which they fight. It’s about equity in opportunity, equity in pay, equity in society. I would love it if we could do more to help AAUW since they have a platform already built and ready to use — and they are women.
Rayne — happy you’re here to talk about registering single women.
Looooong overdue conversation.
Jane Hamsher @ 66
well, NARAL and PP will be part of it, and emily’s list, too. but i’d like to see new and more inventive methods–getting to women as they graduate from community colleges or law school, or through their professional associations, or working-class women in their work and daycare environments.
Fainting couches all around DC.
Does this mean Rahm can show us how tough he is by swearing at us some more?
Let’s hope so.
Welcome, Tom!
tom schaller @ 55
I have wondered, though, whether there is a second split, between those who institutionally support the party (the Kerry/Hillary candidate) and those who are going to be very attracted to the non-party candidate (Dean, McCain in 2000, Nader, Perot). And whether the election of Dean and Van Hollen’s seeming embrace of Dean will be able to attract these people to the party itself. The whole thing would be helped by a Gore candidacy (bc the DLC types are too stupid to figure out that Gore 2000 does not equal Gore 2008). But is there such a correlation in voting patters?
I would tend to agree. Women who affiliate with NARAL/PP are probably already voting… its the ones who don’t get involved that need to be reached out to.
Tom Schaller raises the subject of race in #22. I think reminders of racial rifts are a generally a loser for Democrats, because whites, male and female, get defensive about charges of “racism”, especially when they often make race-informed decisions on where to live and send their kids to school.
There is one area where bringing up race is a winner, however: Republicans cheat in elections by stealing black and Hispanic votes. They are actively, empirically racist in the matter. I would like to see this issue put front and center as a way both to mobilize our black and Hispanic base and to tar the Republicans with a simple label that will violate the great majority of people’s all-American sense of fair play: Republicans Are Cheaters.
I have been advocating registering and voting by telephone for years. Usually I get jeered. But in addition to single woman, there’s a huge pool of working and non working poor and retired, who many times just can’t get to the voting booths who might otherwise vote if it was as easy as picking up the phone. I do think the larger the turnout, the better for left of center candidates and issues.
Pachacutec @ 72
HEY, PACH….let me piggyback on pach’s comment by pulling in something from the news, oh, today…not to mention something the gang at this site is following very closely: the us attorney firings.
the effort by rove and company to get rid of USA’s that didn’t prosecute “fraud” cases is testament to the fact that they can count, too, and they know the demographics are working against them, and in a fair fight or with anything NEAR equal participation, they are doomed to second-party status for a long, long time.
unmarried women voters (who are younger and less white than married voters) are not part of their coalition, and any effort to start moving them toward the polls is viewed with panic and alarm. (and fraud charges!)
Welcome Tom!The Bush administrations policies have taken our country so far to the right (wrong), I knew I was in trouble 4 and a half years ago when I found myself agreeing with Pat Buchanan on quite a few issues (especiallly his stance against the invasion). It looked as if Pat Buchanan represented the middle. Oy Vey!
It seems to me that even if our country swings back to the center tens of thousands of Iraqi people have been killed, injured and millions have been displaced as a direct result of our invasion. The whole world is aware of this crime against humanity.
How can we ever regain any moral integrity (that our country may have had) due to this this tragedy that we are responsible for?
Zbigniew Brezinski, Schlesinger and more think we may never recover from the illegal invasion of Iraq.
Will it really matter if the next elected or selected administration are Democrats or Republicans?
Tom – do you see the two-humped distribution as among informed voters (like those who read this blog) as opposed to the larger mass of low-info citizens?
IIRC, Howard Dean said on TV a while back that 18% of the population think they’re in the top 1% of income earners, and the next 18% think they’re in the top 10%. Is it realistic to take a populist stance when faced with this kind of misinformation?
Gnome de Plume @ 34
The “center” is wherever the particular speaker’s position is located, nothing more nor less.
Tom,
I am a native southerner and would like to expound a littel on the exconic populism. I understand the lack of unions in the south; that’s why many of the manufacturing companies moved there in the first place.
But can’t the economic populism be used to build on the off-shoring of jobs? It is ironic that many of the textiles moved to the south to escape unions and then watched the jobs move to the Caribbean and/or China/VietNam/Korea/etc in the next generation with no recourse. It seems that even wothout unions, the basic fairness (I know nothing in life is fair) would have SOME groups joining the protests.
p.lukasiak @ 74
Universal health care will make Democratic voters of any woman, single or married, who has kids. Kids get sick a lot, and fear for their health, and the accompanying fear of bills, is omnipresent in any parent.
How much are changes in the media responsible for collapse of the center? One’s news sources would seem to reinforce one’s political leanings. FoxNews and talk radio for the Right, blogs and Olbermann for the left. I know I have gone from liberal-leaning to radicalized after discovering blogs in 03. These news sources have come at the expense of newspapers and network news broadcasts, which by design, are meant to cater to the common denominator, the mythical center. (And I realize it is not just in news consumption but in all manner of commerce that the marketplace has become more and more segmented, with, e.g., Walmart and Saks increasingly taking market share from the great middle served by Penney’s or the downtown department store.)
Tom….
Is there any data on unmarried women with children, and how long lines at the polling place resulted in lower voter turnout among that group in places like Ohio in 2004? Do you think that setting up election day child care centers near polling places would increase turnout among these women?
My experience with other women is that you need to recognize that each woman has one or two issues that are really important to them, whether or not (and usually not) they think they of themselves as political. When I told an apolitical girl friend of mine that it was only an executive order by Rod Blagojevich standing between us and the right of pharmacists to deny us contraception prescriptions, she immediately said that Blago’s position on that one issue was enough to convince her to vote for him. Bottom line, I think that normally apolitical women have hot-button issues that will get them to the polls, much more so than men.
dakine01 @ 80
I think the moment is ripe for unions to start agitating down South. it would get people’s attention, and i don’t see how it could hurt. at the very least, corporate american and the chamber of commerce would suddenly have to start spending time down there, easing the burden on union folks outside the south. this notion of “keeping them honest down there” is a counterpoint i often get to my book, but this is different, because union victories do not require one to meet some threshold (50%) as elections do.
Mr. Schaller –
somewhat related to p.lukasiak’s comment above (on who’s behind third way)…
i wonder why the Ds are not pandering to their base… witness today’s vote (20 D senators voted to continue Bush’s occupation of iraq).
your analysis is on where the vote come from… what do you think the analysis would look like for dollars (for funding candidates and ideological “think tanks”)?
i confess to a stong bias for your conclusions – i want to politicians to pay attention to my interests!
Single women are often the working poor and have been greatly and gravely effected by lack of healthcare, etc. Meeting and talking to these women in person would make a big difference. Sort of like walking a precinct. Finding these small bands of women is the trick. It seems to me that women are much more unified, fairminded and passionate than men. Once women are energized and feel listened to they can become proactive.
p.lukasiak @ 65
I believe it was OilFieldGuy who had a goal of getting three new voters out… seems he got more… listening to neighbors and aquaintances, not making promises, but wondering with them if their vote might effect some change
will check to see if that post is still at his site…
p.lukasiak @ 83
Sorry, I don’t know the answer to this, but I wouldn’t be surprised if suburban soccer moms were able to cruise through faster than unmarried mothers in working class neighborhoods.
tom schaller @ 71
Hair and nail salons. I’m tellin’ ya.
Tried it last year, need to keep picking at this one…
We need to identify all the progressive nail and hair techs, but I figure that’s the least of my problems…
p.lukasiak @ 74
Don’t think that’s true. According to ABC news, many women across the country who are receiving aboriton services have never lived in a world where they were not available, frequently don’t know what Roe v. Wade is and don’t believe their rights are under assault.
selise @ 86
well, this is what i find most puzzling: even when the polls shift behind them, they still can’t do the right thing on the war. the country has moved to the left of the democrats, and they haven’t noticed. sad.
Hi Tom,
Just watching John Kerry trying to appeal
to the middle in his hunting outfit ought
to give anyone pause with this approach.
I’m hopeful that Democrats will have the guts
to do what is right and honest for our country,and end this terrible war.
Rayne — always liked that hair and nail salon idea.
gotta run in a minute…time for one last question?
“More than half say that politicians “don’t listen to people like me,” and almost half agree that “government doesn’t do anything to solve my problems, whether I vote or not.”
This is sure the repeated chorus of minorites, and the poor. ( I have heard this in inner city Columbus and Cincinnnati and in rural communites like Glouster, Chanucey and Trimble Ohio)
Tom What have you found to be the most effective way of convincing people that they can be heard if they vote, lobby and use the system that is still somewhat intact? How to empower the voter? How to convince them that it is our job to be vigilant?
What’s the gender breakdown on opposition to the war?
Whew! Thanks so much, Tom, for all your work, and for taking the time to discuss it with us today.
Gnome de Plume
and Tom Schaller
Thanks to you both, great ideas!
tom schaller @ 16
Tom,
First, I agree with you that sometimes wedge politics can work well, and can represent the “high road”: I am inclined to put stem cell research in this category. But one of the things I like about the stem cell research wedge is that it actually argues for a more nuanced than usual point of view; opposition to stem cell research is based on a hard-line, oversimplified, overgeneralized “pro-life” paradigm with no room for nuance.
I am not arguing that wedge politics don’t work. What I am arguing is that the way wedge politics is usually done (NOT talking about stem cell research) is morally repugnant to me, whether it is done by the right, or the left. That is, what I see wedge politics mostly doing is to over-simplify an issue, creating stark alternatives neither of which is realistic, and forcing people to choose between these artificials.
Perhaps another example would be helpful. One of the prime examples of wedge politics that I can think of is the abortion debate, framed in terms of “Pro-life” vs. “Pro-choice.” This is one case where I like the Clintonian alternative– i.e. that abortion should be safe, legal, and rare, IIRC. I think Bill got good mileage out of that, and so is Hillary.
I think the public is already encouraged too much to over-simplify complicated issues, so that we wind up with an electorate that thinks in 5 second sound bites. I worry about the long range consequences of wedge politics in terms of what it does to the body politic: It forces everyone into a George Bush level mindset that avoids nuance and embraces over-simplification. I don’t think that’s healthy, even if it might win some elections.
And I don’t like the argument that we superior political thinkers can indulge in nuance, but we need to manipulate the hoi polloi by simplistic message management– that’s the kind of elitist thinking that Karl Rove is so good at, and that I find odious.
There are times when I’d rather educate the public with arguments that promote more nuanced thinking, even when it means losing an election here or there, than to seek advantage by over-simplification and distortion.
That is why, for example, I find the speeches of Martin Luther King, Jr. so inspiring. He didn’t try to dumb things down and drive wedges between people; he sought to lift everyone up to a more exalted vision of who we can be as a people.
I gather that this is something we may have to “agree to disagree” about. I have stated my points, and have no need to belabor them.
Once again, welcome again to the Lake! It is good to discuss these things openly, and with good will.
Bob in HI
fran @ 93
well, i write about this in my book, WHISTLING PAST DIXIE (which i hope some of you support me by picking up), this is exactly the kind of “cultural contortionism” the centrists say dems ahve to do. it doesn’t work because those to whom kerry panders don’t vote for him, the media pile on and make fun, costing him votes of some who otherwise might but find him to be a phony.
you didn’t see bush wearing Rocawear and a turned-sideways all-red Indians hat talking to single minority mothers in east cleveland….but you always hear pundits say democrats need to wear boots and appeal to NASCAR voters. absurd double standard—especially since the electorate is getting more female, more non-white, more secular, more urban/inner suburban, and more non-traditional in its families: exactly the opposite of the profile of a Nascar dad.
until we feel confident that a candidate will do as much as he/she can has promised … and not kick us voters to the curb when elected – there’ll be a problem attracting all people to vote. its disturbing to see how calls aren’t returned once elected as before one could reach the candidate…
tom schaller @ 89
Tom and all
If you have not seen this amazing documentary about Ohio’s 2004 s-election, it is a must!
http://www.howohiopulleditoff.com/
thanks, gang, and especially to Jane and the FDL crew.
see you all in the funny papers.
cheers, tom
email always available at: schaller67@hotmail.com
Thanks for stopping by Tom!!!!
and keep doing that numbers crunching stuff for those of us who are statistically illiterate (innumerate?) :)
Bob Schacht @ 100 summarizes what I think is the root problem.
This may be a serious generalization, but it seems to me that Republicans think the point of an election is to divide people, while liberals see division as the result of an election. The purpose is to attract people to a set of ideas.
I think that’s going to be largely impossible to change.
Thanks Mr. Schaller–and FDL. This is political dialogue at its best.
Hi Tom,
What are the reasons that married and Euro-American women tend to be more republican?
Thanks Tom, I think..) I feel so, so moderate now.
These guys say they’re at the ‘center’.
In the United States, Third Way adherents emphasize fiscal conservatism, some replacement of welfare with workfare, and a stronger preference for market solutions to traditional problems…
The Democratic Leadership Council and the New Democrats are adherents of Third Way politics.
tom schaller @ 101
Jane, you didn’t warn us he was going to be funny, too! Heh…Rocawear. Indeed.
Thanks for stopping in and chatting with us, Tom. I’ll be picking up your book, sounds like one that my Dem organization would love to read.
Jane do you think Kucinich would be willing to come visit FDL? I bet he would!
found his first post
I believe it was OilFieldGuy who had a goal of getting three new voters out… seems he got more… listening to neighbors and aquaintances, not making promises, but wondering with them if their vote might effect some change
will check to see if that post is still at his site…
Dover Bitch @ 106
Think of John F. Kennedy: “Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.”
He called us all to be Americans, and not progressives or conservatives or independents. When announcing that we would go to the moon, he asked us to seek space as a higher mission that united us as humans in a common goal.
It can be done. It has been done. And we must do it again.
I wish I had found this earlier.
Via DWT, it is up right now.
snip
http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/
sometimes the ideas here can be a bit over one’s head – sooo how will women voters be invited to come out and vote in greater numbers?? i’m just curious……..
Oops. Whats the opposite of near-zed?
Third Way adherents emphasize fiscal conservatism… stronger preference for market solutions to traditional problems (as in pollution markets)…
This is not center politics. This is Republicanism.
I don’t see how Hillary Clinton’s subscription to Third Way ideology and DLC tactics are a help to single women or any non-wealthy women for that matter.
Milan River @ 108
I think you mean “white” women, a rephrasing, which, by itself, answers part of the question.
I think that some of the biggest things that make people gravitate towards Republicans when they might otherwise be vote Democratic are features of the suburban lifestyle (I’m not talking about the poor rural whites Schaller describes in #22). I remember seeing a replay of a Mark Russell show from the 1976 campaign where he referred to the “lily white liberal suburbs”. That seems funny now. I think Republicans have exploited property taxes and worries about public schools (and part of this is having an acutely race-conscious notion of what an acceptable school is) to great benefit. What you have to do is counter with policies that appeal to people’s vital self interest. I think universal health care would trump any other worries among anyone who’s not rich or upper middle class.
Crap late again!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 119
They’re not, but she hopes her sex trumps the substance of her political program. I think she’ll be very successful in this, at least.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 110
May I respectfully disagree to this extent: Fiscal conservatism, i.e, pay-as-you-go or not spending more than the income is a security issue as much as anything. Especially with the KSA and China holding as much paper as they do.
I would dearly love to have fully funded single-payer healthcare as well as many other initiatives but the money has to be there to pay rather than on the future generations. I don’t thing that is necessarily a “third-way”/DLC position, partly becausee I would repeal most all of the Chimpenfuhrer’s tax cuts to start paying for it. Which puts us in the “tax and spend” sound bite that the Redubyacans love so much.
OK Kiddo,
Many of the women I talk to like Hillary.
They want universal health care and they think she went through fire during the last few years of her husband’s term in office, so they know she’s a fighter.
Just getting them to register to vote is a challenge, though.
Thanks brendan- please explain more re your first paragraph in #120.
I guess uneducated with degree here. :-)
tom schaller @ 104
Thanks so much for stopping by, Tom. Much appreciated. We’ll be revisiting this subject again — often.
registering to vote isdnt the problem imo its getting women to the polls to ACTUALLY VOTE!!
Exit Plan for Wolfowitz…too bad Wolfowitz did not plan an exit strategy from his illegal,bloody and immoral war in Iraq.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thebl…..to_re.html
Rayne @ 114
And we ended up just using the moon as a golf course.Milan River @ 125
I’m just saying race informs whites’ decision making more than we like to acknowledge and Republicans exploit it.
A white married woman is more likely to be Republican because of, among other things, these factors:
1. Her household has a higher income
2. Her family own a house
3. Race
I’m winging it here on the house thing, but in my youthful flirtation with Republicanism (I never voted Republican mind you, I just “listened to their arguments”) one of the most effective things I ever hear Newt Gingrich say was, “Bill and Hillary Clinton have never paid a mortgage” (whether this was true or not was a secondary consideration).
Margot @ 124
I have said it before and will say it again. I will vote for Hillary Clinton if she’s the nominee of my party. I will not vote for the Senator in the primaries.
Great post, thanks.
Just wondering, any statistics regarding the voting rates of unmarried/single men?
One other thingy. What about holding the national election on a Sunday like the French? They had something like a 82% national turnout afew weeks ago.
jjk @ 131
Constitutional issue.
Dover Bitch @ 106
I disagree with Bob on this – we can attract people to our ideas by showing how they differ – that is what the “wedge” is – And I don’t understand why one should get so over wrought and hung up on causing a riff over standing ones ground to the point of prefering to give up and lose “an election here or there” – I say step aside or get over it. I have no intention giving up the fight in 2008 – it’s women’s reproductive rights that are at risk.
jjk at #131
I’m wrong about that.
But, in any, case Republicans, for obvious reasons, wouldn’t allow it. You’d have to have a filibuster proof majority.
Voting by mail is a way around this.
OK Kiddo,I hear you.
Juslin, registering is the first step!
Right smack on the money, Tom Schaller. I’ve seen this coming for years now, and the fact that the “experts” stick with their “vital middle” schtick does not surprise me a whit. David Broder and his ilk are completely irrelevant in today’s political reality, along with the bush apologists like Fred Hiatt and the Washington Post.
Personally, I will never, ever consider voting for any republican – ever again. I don’t believe that the repub party bigshots have the sightest idea of the intense damage that this administration has done to their party. Tom Schaller gets it.
here in north jersey there’s voting registration all the time – translating that into actual voting – BIG PROBLEM!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 130
Me neither!
Whoa, I just found out from the post above that I’m a sleeping giant! Woohoo!
I think that’s interesting because as loyal as I have been to the Democratic party, I have felt completely, totally, utterly ignored in their rhetoric. It’s all “working families, working families, blah, blah, blah.” Which is fine. I support working families. But how about “working human beings.” Are we only valuable if we have kids?
How about those of us who made the decision not to have kids for economic reasons? Not out of selfishness, but because we knew would be unable to provide a comfortable life for those children. We get no stinkin’ credit for that. America is very baby-centric. I love babies. But the marketing aspect is a bit overboard. And babies grow up and have to go to college . . .
RagingGurrl @ 133
I think this talk is a bit abstract. People vote largely out of perceived economic self interest, and part of encouraging them to vote is bringing the economic benefit to their attention. The reason other issues, particularly social ones, are given such weight is that the Democrats haven’t presented a dramatic alternative to Republicans, for systemic and structural reasons (i.e., where the money comes from). Universal health would pay the Democratic Party compounding benefits in the same way Social Security once did. As Republican boilerplate would have it, it would create a “a culture of dependency”, or a “class of people dependent on a government program”. In other words, most people are surprisingly rational and recognize their own self interest, and would end up Democrats.
FYI, New thread
New Jane upstairs. On Cochran Amendment…
Oh, and thank you to Tom Schaller, although I am sure he is long gone. I very much appreciated this post. It was very enlightening.
I am particularly interested in the potential of women barred by law from marrying their same-gender partners, and I wonder if any PrezCandi’s campaign is staffed to outreach to this group.
OK kiddo, on Hillary
Irrespective of my objections to her stance on the war, I am very concerned what would happen if she won the primary.
She has so much baggage on the right (most of it undeserved, but there it is – Rupert Murdoch has done his job well in demonizing her and then she cuddles with him, I mean, WTF is up with that!*) She is also VERY unpopular with progressives. So she has many enemies on the right AND the left.
There are many on the right who have this undying hatred for all things Clinton and there is nothing anyone can do about it. They can’t stop talking about them to this day. It doesn’t makes sense, it’s totally irrational, but again, you can’t pretend it’s not there.
TOO . . . MUCH . . . BAGGAGE . . . BOTH SIDES. To me it’s a recipe for disaster. But what do I know?
*Footnote: Fraternizing with the enemy, may be a smart move, I just don’t know. I’m too idealistic to understand how that works.
Mandrake @ 138
I think “working families” is a hoary phrase market tested to combine the former notion of “working” or “working” class with the newer notion of “family values”. You’re right: fewer and fewer are married, and people are having fewer and fewer kids. The rhetoric of the Democratic Party is targeted at a narrowing sector of the population. My comments were themselves “family”-centric: I think have kids animates decision making the way few other things do, and I suspect that health care, particularly, is a much more visceral concern to someone with kids, married or not, than to one who doesn’t have them.
tom schaller @ 7
A-yep. The GOP/Media Complex at work, shoving those Overton Windows further towards fascism.
Hi Professor Schaller. I just want to say that I saw you on cspan a few months ago and your verbal smackdown of the southern conservative who was attempting to lecture you on “real America” was one of the most inspiring things I’ve ever seen.
I immediately jumped on Amazon and ordered your terrific book. Thanks for all you do and for participating in this chat.
Greg
brendan @ 134
thanks Brendan, you inspired me to look it up. Here is a quote from the Federal Election Commission (sounding like my 8th grade social studies book):
“. . . For much of our history, America was a predominantly agrarian society. Law makers therefore took into account that November was perhaps the most convenient month for farmers and rural workers to be able to travel to the polls. The fall harvest was over, (remember that spring was planting time and summer was taken up with working the fields and tending the crops) but in the majority of the nation the weather was still mild enough to permit travel over unimproved roads.
Why Tuesday? Since most residents of rural America had to travel a significant distance to the county seat in order to vote, Monday was not considered reasonable since many people would need to begin travel on Sunday. This would, of course, have conflicted with Church services and Sunday worship.
Why the first Tuesday after the first Monday? Lawmakers wanted to prevent election day from falling on the first of November for two reasons. First, November 1st is All Saints Day, a Holy Day of Obligation for Roman Catholics. Second, most merchants were in the habit of doing their books from the preceding month on the 1st. Apparently, Congress was worried that the economic success or failure of the previous month might prove an undue influence on the vote!”
http://www.fec.gov
Shorter: the first Tuesday in November is federal law, but I did not see that the date is situated in the Constitution itself. I could be wrong, of course-
I agree with you Brendan on the chances of ever getting the law changed. But, if the dems ever wake up one fine sunny day and find themselves with a fillibuster-proof majority- *g*, this would be a good one.
Mandrake #138
If you think about the phrase, “working families” reminds one of “The Jungle”.
I still don’t get it, how can you draw conclusions about an electorate when most people don’t vote, voter turnout wildly varies from election to election, and most of all, just because you register as independent doesn’t mean you really are independent.
I have a co-worker who swears “they are all crooks” and doesn’t vote, but I can tell by the way he talks that he watches Bill O’Reilly regularly, has very strong conservative leanings and is definitely a Republican. And we have a very friendly relationship because I avoid antagonizing him, and even find points that I agree with him on. If he feels that strongly about issues so dear to his heart (abortion for one), I know he must be voting.
Phoenix Woman @ 146
The MSM has never been liberal. It’s all an O’Falafel conjob on the rubes out there that are stupid enough to believe him.
RagingGurrl @ 133
I have no problem with standing one’s ground, and pointing out differences. In fact, that often seems to correlate with “backbone”, something that Democrats sometimes seem to lack.
But I do have a problem with over-simplifying my position in order to draw a starker contrast with political opponents, to the point of distorting my position as well as theirs.
Bob in HI
If someone’s already addressed this, please ignore, but I think Dems should pick a two or three (or more if they could swing it) National Get Registered Days. Given the stuff about single women in the featured article of this post, organizing such a day around themes important to this group would help, too. There’s such a push to get out the vote on election day itself, but I bet if Dems could engineer a party/protest/happening around registration, they could not only sign up a bunch of unregistered voters, but also make it easier to mobilize these newbies come election day.
rwcole @ 21
Oh yes! The left/right frame oversimplifies a reality that has three, four, five or more dimensions. Why don’t (single) women vote more? Because no candidate has so far given them any reason to.
brendan @ 81
Brendan, these ladies are very used to bein lied to. Promises will not win them (aka ‘us’). Show us a trustworthy politician, one who keeps her/his promises, and just see what happens.
selise @ 86
Yes! I for one definitely do not feel pandered to! Who are they trying to please? Not their ‘base’.
Hey Jane — I got called away, wish we could have spent more time on this one.
What if we launched a project where we identified towns with two things: a cosmetology school (where most students are likely women) and a 2-year or 4-year college (where at least 55% of students will be women, based on national averages). We raise money to pay the cosmetologist students going-rates, to provide services to female students for reduced rates, provided they register to vote or show their voter registration and take candidate/issue lit.
That might work, been stewing on this since I left earlier…??
brendan (129) — you really need a trip to John F. Kennedy Space Center. You really need to sit through the IMAX movie. Golfing? hardly, only a temporary gag that lasted for minutes for men who risked life and limb to prove to us that we can be far more than we are. I look forward to the day I can see a woman on the surface of the moon, and a woman traveling to Mars.
If it isn’t too EPU’ed…
I have some experience organizing Lower Income Women — some of it dates back to the early 1970’s when I first started working with Paul Wellstone organizing county by county in Rural Minnesota lower income, single and divorced women, women needing county services, and women on welfare. Before that Campaign in 1990 we had about forty such county organizations and part of my job on the campaign was to get them all involved and working for Paul. My other experience is with women in the cities, again mostly single and low income, and either in Public Housing or recently in Public Housing.
OK — the key is to begin where people are — not with voting, but with asking them to talk about what they need, want, and how they feel about politics in general. We need organizers in the party who can do this kind of listening, and then move the messages they hear into the political message. Once you find someone who is articulate — recruit and train them as an organizer. Connect them with things larger than their own circle.
Our Democratic Candidates need to be trained to relate properly with this lower income service group. If a candidate fails to go into the kitchen of a cafe where they have a meeting and shake hands, listen for a time, and actually ask for votes from the Kitchen Help and the Servers — they are failing as a candidate. If the event organizer fails to distribute buttons and information about voting and registeration, again — a failure. The message needs to be laid hard — these service workers are not the lesser invisable help, they are potential voters, and their vote is worth as much as someone who makes a big contribution. Every cafe and auto repair place Wellstone ever went into had new voters — and we got them. And moreover, if the organizer takes their names and sends them something in the mail — they will deliver the whole family plus friends at the polls. They don’t have money to contribute — but if you ask them to do a pot-luck for the campaign, they will shine. They shy away from the upscale, but asked to help for the right reasons and in the right way — it works. But it has to be authentic.
The Issues: You have to be something of an economic populist, which includes expectations about the quality of public services, and their general availabilty. But you have to ask people about their needs, and experiences with public services. For instance, about the local schools, about recreation opportunity, about how the police treat them when they need them, and yes about health care. Jobs and Job training are likely issues — does the local voc tech school have relevant programs? If, for instance, Hillary wants to make the matter of comparing women’s wages with men’s a campaign issue, she needs to make certain her organizers localize it. Most important, we have to be willing to leave party organizers behind to help further organize such women — and make them a factor beyond the immediate election. And that is something the 50 State Project ought to be seeding.
There is no difference between a camel and a dromedary. All dromedaries are camels. A two humped camel is known as a Bactrian camel. Doesn’t change the discussion a whit, but I thought we should strive for zoological precision.