Yesterday, we discussed Sen. Chris Dodd's statement calling on the Senate leadership to have an up or down vote on Feingold-Reid instead of attaching it as an amendment to the Water Resources Development Act Reauthorization currently on the floor. The vote on the amendment is expected tomorrow. Senator Dodd's position is that Feingold-Reid should get a direct vote – not a cloture vote which he believes does not represent a position on the contents of the amendment but simply on the continuation of discussion and voting.
Senator Dodd called on the other presidentials to co-sponsor Feingold-Reid and/or express their position on it. So today, we wanted to update everyone on the other candidate's statements and see what you think.
You'll also see mention of the Reid-Levin amendment so first a little primer from Government Executive:
Feingold-Reid:
Reid is allowing his party's liberals to vent their frustration by voting on an amendment similar to legislation sponsored by Reid and Sen. Russell Feingold, D-Wis., that would require withdrawal of forces by March 31, 2008, other than for more limited roles such as training Iraqi forces, protecting U.S. facilities and conducting anti-terrorism operations.
That amendment is unlikely to get 60 votes, but Reid will have given senators a chance to vote on their preferred approach before having to settle for something less strict.
and Reid-Levin:
The placeholder bill would provide $120 billion for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and some domestic projects. It would retain the same Oct. 1 deadline for beginning the troop pullout from Iraq but allow Bush to waive the requirement.
"By providing for the presidential waiver, we are removing any reason for the president to veto the supplemental funding bill," Levin said in a statement.
Here's what what the other candidates* said today (please take a minute to read their full statements which give much more background on their overall positions):
"I would actually go further than Reid-Feingold and use the funding authority, not just to set an ultimate deadline, but to force an immediate withdrawal of 40-50,000 troops, followed by a complete withdrawal in about a year. But using the funding authority to bring this war to an end is exactly the right thing to do. Every Senator who believes this war is wrong and wants to end it should support Reid-Feingold."
"Tomorrow, I will cast my vote to send the President a clear message: Democrats are united in fighting to change course, redeploy our troops out of Iraq, and end this war as soon as possible.
When the Senate votes on motions to allow debate on both the Feingold-Reid and Reed-Levin Amendments, I will vote for cloture on both. I do so because we, as a united party, must work together with clarity of purpose and mission to begin bringing our troops home and end this war."
“Tomorrow, I expect cloture votes on two other proposals. One is the Reid-Feingold plan, which would begin a withdrawal of troops in 120 days and end all combat operations on April 1. The other is Senator Levin's proposal, which would create standards and benchmarks for additional funding.
“I will support both, not because I believe either is the best answer, but because I want to send a strong statement to the Iraqi government, the President and my Republican colleagues that it's long past time to change course.
“Meanwhile, I'll continue to press for my own plan, and work to find the 16 votes in the Senate to pass it with a veto-proof majority and bring our troops home quickly, safely and responsibly."
"Reid-Feingold is another step in the right direction, but it still leaves too many troops in Iraq.
"The most recent House funding bill finances the war through August 1st. This extends the war longer than it should –we can and should de-authorize this war today, and start bringing our troops home tomorrow.
Then the controversy begins: Apparently, Senator Reid feels this is the best way to give senators opportunity to vote on Feingold-Reid. Senator Feingold's statement says:
“I appreciate the Majority Leader’s work to bring up the Feingold-Reid legislation for a vote. The American people deserve to have the Senate go on record about whether or not it wants to end our misguided mission in Iraq and safely redeploy our brave troops.”
While Senator Obama is being criticized for his position over at TalkLeft, I'd personally question both Sen. Clinton and Sen. Obama's positions – voting for cloture on both Feingold-Reid and Reid-Levin – seems to talk around the issue rather than answer it head on.
The parliamentary manuevering makes it hard for us all to understand. Is attaching the amendment a good idea? Does it give some candidates a pass on actually voting on Feingold-Reid while having the "cover" of the cloture vote? Or is it a way to continue to press the White House to end the war? What do you think?
(*Sen. Biden's campaign referred us to his senate office and we will update if we receive a response. We also were unable to get a comment from Sen. Gravel's office before this post.)
Photo: US President George W. Bush walks to his Marine One helicopter in Washington, DC. The showdown between Bush and lawmakers over Iraq was headed to the Senate, after the House of Representatives voted to fund the war in segments of just a few months.(AFP/Saul Loeb)




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Zed!
#2
…and now, to let people know.
Sorry, Cassie – the Gods were with me.
Sorry ’bout length gang – wanted to make sure we were fair to everyone by including their positions in their own words.
another post i don’t understand yet. will sit and listen to comments till something comes up that i DO understand.
I think it would be very helpful to ask the presidential hopefuls in the Senate to cosponsor any bills or amendments they support.
Let’s get everyone on the record.
I am torn – because I think, realistically, we’re in Iraq until George W. Bush flies back to Crawford, TX on January 20, 2009. I think since that’s the case, you just have to keep saying, however you can, we do not approve of this war.
I think you should try for Feingold-Reid; it will, sadly, fail, and then try Reid-Levin. Anything to make it clear that the extension of the war is the responsibility of the GOP, which is trying to learn how to swim as it circles the drain.
But it all makes my head hurt for so many reasons.
Is anybody proposing that they do nothing at all?
TERROR IN NEW YORK! BOMB EXPLODES IN FRONT OF NYSE! MANY VAPORIZED INSTANTLY IN HEAT OF MASSIVE DETONATION WHICH SPRAYED THOUSANDS OF RED HOT NICKEL SLUGS THROUGH HUNDREDS OF VICTIMS! IMMIGRANT TERRORISTS SUSPECTED, CRACKDOWN TO BEGIN WITHOUT THE PROTECTION OF LEGAL RIGHTS!
The only problem: it was about one hundred years ago!
http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=847#more-847
If the Senate can’t vote us out of Iraq by March of next year…
I had no Idea the House bill was this far ahead of what Feingold dares to try in the Senate.
Has Senator Russ met our Speaker? *s*
SnarKassandra @ 8
That would be the Grand Old Party.
Eureka Springs @ 10
In fairness, the realities of the house make it impossible for the Republicans to block a bill that the Dems, en mass, want. Not so in the senate, plus you have pseudo-dem Joe Lieberman (aaagh-my fingers burn when I type his name!) there, too.
Mutant Poodle @ 12
I meant to not send the prez a new bill at all. just let the veto stand.
…and, by the way…
[waves at Cassie]
Hi Cassie!
For all of the good people here who are going to look at the second Republican Presidential Debate. I admire your courage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xocvGX0S6s
Mutant Poodle @ 15
Hiya MP! (I know your real name but I don’t know if I can say it.)
SnarKassandra @ 13
I think the politics of that are tricky – not that it wouldn’t serve Bush right, but de-funding the war that way probably makes for a withdrawal in a manner that’s not optimal from the standpoint of troop safety and all that. Given the Dem’s sensitivity to the “you hate our trrops” meme, I don’t think it’s a likely strategy, and I don’t know of anyone who is proposing it.
Mutant Poodle @ 13
Also in fairness to all patriotic Americans, and our long suffering troops, using Lieberman and Senate rules as an excuse allows far too many Senators to duck when they ought to be standing tall.
Interesting take on Reid’s strategy in re Feingold et al at DKOS:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..181214/406
SnarKassandra @ 16
Only if someone offers you lots of money.
[Lots = (think Austin Powers), One Million Dollars!]
Alfred – I think McJoan(who I adore)may be misreading this. A vote for cloture does not necessarily signal support of the content of the bill – that’s why I agree with Pach that supporters should step up and co-sponsor.
It just looks too much like having it both ways to me.
Auction! Who will give me $5000 for me to tell them Mutant Poodle’s real name?
With every passing day, I’m liking Edwards more. I dig the quote above from Edwards. It’s cool. He da man.
Siun @ 22
interesting. hopefully others will offer insights as well. me, i gave up on understanding congress when i read about a filibuster in the early 1980’s to prevent “debate about whether to have a debate on whether to pass a bill which would cut off debate…” my poor brain vanished into a recursion black hole and hasn’t been seen since.
SnarKassandra @ 23
will you take a check? (name to be revealed upon receipt of check…)
It’s a bit difficult to read anything proposed above and consider it to be anything but a bottle of poison pills. (For our troops and innocents in Iraq.)
SnarKassandra @ 22
I say this with all sincerity: Good luck. I think getting that $5,000 multiplied by 200 is going to be a bit of a stretch.
Bob in HI – i left a note downstairs re the Spotlight function.
If I had to vote I would vote for all of the end war legislation, hoping that enough votes would end up in one of them.
Personally, I still think all of the Dems and Repubs against the war should show some cojones and enter the chambers and begin a sit-in, stay silent, but block any other legislation (except for Katrina, Veterans funds, or other emergency issues) until they have enough votes to send back and overrule a veto of the original bill sent to the president.
Siun @ 22
amen.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 24
I’m with ya on that!
I am thinking holding Democrats feet to the fire is beginning to have an effect. And I intend to keep doing just that.
selise, thanks again for the audio of Comey
Here’s an idea that might work, even better: The Dems should announce that as of Sept 1 if there is not a 25% downsizing of the troops (or pick your number) that 25% of the war costs now off-budget will be inserted into the budget. If Dec 1 there is not a 50% reduction in troop levels that 50% of the Iraq war costs will be added to the budget as a line item etc. And, to make the point even more strong, to pay for these “new” (actual) budget costs, a special war tax will be imposed on those making above say $250,000. In the end, only something like this is going to make any real difference in how this administration runs things. Considering that there are now a quarter million troops in Iraq the impact would be sizable.
Is cloture the term for a vote to have a vote?
Siun – Did you happen to notice if Reid Feingold funds everything through March of next year?
Suzanne @ 36
cloture is a vote to cut off debate. a fillibuster is an endless debate that prevents bringing a bill to a vote (or doing anything else…)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster
Wolfowitz and the rest of the Bush Administration. Ever met a bigger bunch of cry babies and girlie boys?
Thats how we got f*cked on Alito.
OOPS! Sorry, I forgot about Snarkassandra being here.
War Czar? Pure window dressing.
Richmond @ 35
Great idea!!!
Elliott @ 34
you are most welcome.
Bustednuckles @ 40
Like I can’t hear the word ALITO yet? I am 15, not 5!
Thanks L.S. I am totally frustrated with how this continues to play out!
I think it’s too much of a smoke screen. The Feingold-Reid bill would leave something like 60,000 troops in Iraq indefinitely. It says nothing about the 100,000 private mercenaries that we’re currently funding, they could stay too. And it allows the US to keep its military bases inside Iraq.
The McGovern bill in the House was a real withdrawal bill, it explicitly says that all contractors would need to be withdrawn as well as all US military forces. Of course, 59 Democrats voted with the Republicans to defeat that bill.
It seems to me that this bill has been intentionally watered down so that pro-war Democrats can vote for it. The last time there was a straight up-or-down vote on a REAL withdrawal bill (Kerry-Feingold in 2006), Clinton, Obama, Biden, and Dodd all voted AGAINST withdrawal. I think they just want a way to spin their vote as “looking tough” while continuing to support the war.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 16
Since I try to avoid the Faux Noise at all costs, I ain’t one of ‘em. I’ll watch their sports under protest. I’ll watch their movies. I’ll even sometimes watch their Fx but not the Noise.
Eureka Springs @ 37
i haven’t read either amendment/bill yet. anyone have links – or should i go looking for them?
Richmond @ 45
You and me and all the people that voted. I want to see some “earthy” action. No more of this prissy polite stuff. Grrrrrr…woof :) Meeeooww!
Eureka:
Here’s the text acc to Sen Feingold’s site:
The language of the legislation reads:
(a) Transition of Mission – The President shall promptly transition the mission of United States forces in Iraq to the limited purposes set forth in subsection (d).
(b) Commencement of Safe, Phased Redeployment from Iraq – The President shall commence the safe, phased redeployment of United States forces from Iraq that are not essential to the purposes set forth in subsection (d). Such redeployment shall begin not later than 120 days after the date of the enactment of this Act.
(c) Prohibition on Use of Funds – No funds appropriated or otherwise made available under any provision of law may be obligated or expended to continue the deployment in Iraq of members of the United States Armed Forces after March 31, 2008.
(d) Exception for Limited Purposes – The prohibition under subsection (c) shall not apply to the obligation or expenditure of funds for the limited purposes as follows:
(1) To conduct targeted operations, limited in duration and scope, against members of al Qaeda and other international terrorist organizations.
(2) To provide security for United States infrastructure and personnel.
(3) To train and equip Iraqi security services.
May I digress for a moment? Downstairs Kathryn kindly explained to me,
There’s a woman I know who, without benefit of spotlighting software, sends me (and many others, including Congresspersons and media types) the personal equivalent of about 20 ’spotlights’ a day. At some point, these become like spam. I should think that to be effective, the comment should be something more informative than “FYI,” or words to that effect.
Has anyone done some kind of study on effective spotlighting?
Bob in HI
SnarKassandra @ 43
Alito is fine. Sc*lia is problematic.
Bob Schacht @ 51
yea, some of my friends get tired of all the great rock and roll YouTubes I send!
Somehow in all this horse-tradin’ — I’D insisst that Fiengold’s Presidential Censuer Res got a vot. Even tie it to a funding bill.
Make ‘em vote on that, even if the spoiled brat gets the allowace, and more deaths with it.
Anyone else interested in the fact that no one actually voting is saying get everybody out already? At least I find it somewhat interesting that Edwards and Richardson are saying get all out soonest. At best Dodd seems to be willing to say up or down on Feingold-Reid and use the timetable. (Which he just said on an ad on Countdown).
The similarities to Alito are rather stunning …
shiny almost new thread upstairs …
Its past my beer time.
See ya’s tomorrow.
Siun @ 50 – thanks for the text to feingold’s proposal.
nothing about withdrawing contractors? nothing about no permanent bases?
and a vote that won’t pass on this bill is the best the senate can do? arrrrgh!
Bustednuckles @ 58
bye
g’bye busted – enjoy!
Siun @ 56
i think we were kabuki’ed then.
is that what is happening now?
Siun – Thanks for the linky..and the whole post..)
SnarKassandra @ 9
Cassie, that is an excellent point!
The Preznit gets NO money for his war if Congress does nothing. I think Congress should be in NO hurry to push any of bills forward at all. Let him hold his breath and pout for as long as he wants to. Make him say “I WANT MY WAR MONEY” over and over. People will get sick of it.
Bob in HI
SnarKassandra @ 9, Me for one. See me at 30.
LS @ 42
What LS said!
OT – Gonzalez on CSPAN now. At National Press Club this morning. You know, where he throws McNulty under the bus
Richmond @ 35
Sounds good to me.
Bob in HI
Bob Schacht @ 68
Truly using the power of the purse. This will wake-up a lot of people in the nation who are on oblivious cruise control right now.
Talking to his helicoptor!
I read a rare poll today that covered the die hard republican corner of my state…where the really rich wal-mart fundies rule..
That is from a die hard Republican Kool aid area!
The D Senators are screwing their own pooch if this is all they will do… they should do nothing before playing these deadly games, imo.
What do you think, Siun?
Oh, I see, suin, walking to his helicopter.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 24
Me too, OKK, but it’s easier for him to speak out than for someone looking to be re-elected to the Senate. Know what I mean? I don’t know which of the candidates will seek re-election though.
I personally think they (Senators) are all cowards in not calling for a direct vote. I find nothing cleaver or honorable in hiding behind cloture.
I don’t imagine this comment is particularly productive, but oh man, Mr. Levin, are you ever causing seething fury in this camp with comments like this:
Why the hell is that your objective, Levin?! That’s called capitulation to a warmonger. Does that make you proud of your Senate service? Gifting Bush every damn dime he wants of new debt for our suicidal mission in Iraq, and then some, with no strings attached? Talk about a cop-out, talk about a sell-out, talk about despicable.
I’m chalking it up to naked hostility toward the “ungrateful” Arabs of Iraq on your part, Levin, because I see no other justification anywhere in sight for a savvy, competent Democrat from Michigan to be promoting this savage madness (the excuses you’ve offered up publicly for your Iraq positions of late have been beyond pathetic). And because for every Member of Congress, I know that there’s an underlying reason for key actions like this vote, and we can’t counter-act effectively without understanding those reasons. So that’s my working theory (and it certainly doesn’t incline me favorably toward the guy) about Levin’s motivation (which is carefully in line with A*P*C’s motives, of course), until he gives us a better reason, and an explanation that doesn’t insult our intelligence.
The least the Senate should do is to hold the line on the progress they had made with Hagel’s and Smith’s help, since the Senate is the weakest link in this chain. But no – Levin apparently convinced Reid to offer Bush everything he wanted on a silver platter, as the Senate’s new fallback position. To what end??? Looks like Cheney had Levin & Co.’s number exactly right during his Sunday show predictions about Levin’s upcoming fold. Levin appears eager to write this emergency supplemental off as a done deal – and to go forward to the regular process of budgeting next year, starting October 1, that removes all leverage on the funding front from the Senate Democrats regarding Iraq. And Levin no doubt pretends to think that Republicans will “get principle” come September (for no particular reason, except maybe that the Republicans can then claim to be the ones ending the occupation), even without the oil plundering law yet in place… I think that’s called willful ignorance in service to an unseen agenda, and I absolutely condemn such duplicity from the likes of Carl Levin.
Wouldn’t it be sort of a nice idea if somebody in the Senate finally decided to tell us what is actually going on behind the scenes (within limits)? The reasoning above is the meager result of what I can deduce from the very limited information our federal legislators have condescended to share with us about our illegal invasion – which is an ongoing national disaster, on two continents, that ricochets with bad faith all the way back to our nation’s founding. All historical sense and perspective have apparently gone missing in Washington, D.C., and Round Two of the appalling 2002 AUMF approval process seems to be upon us, unless wiser heads in the House can somehow prevail, against all odds.
I equate Dodd, Richardson, and Edwards statement as near the same. It would have been nice if Richardson and Edwards had said
“Dodd is damn right!” I find nothing wrong with giving praise when praise is due.
Clinton and Obama are dancing. I don’t like waltzes.
I would actually go further than Reid-Feingold and use the funding authority, not just to set an ultimate deadline, but to force an immediate withdrawal of 40-50,000 troops, followed by a complete withdrawal in about a year. But using the funding authority to bring this war to an end is exactly the right thing to do. Every Senator who believes this war is wrong and wants to end it should support Reid-Feingold.”
I’m with Edwards on this.
Thanks, pow wow, once again, for saying it so damn well.
What the hell is the senate thinking?
pow wow, your comment rocks.
deserves nationwie spotlighting
DrenchedOtter @ 46
There you have it folks. That’s the fault line within the Democratic party and it’s represented in the list of candidates for President too.
There are three positions I suppose:
1 The Republican stand mostly — For the GWOT (in all it’s glory), occupation of Iraq and oil theft.
2 The DLC position — Against the war in Iraq, but for a continued presence in Iraq (out from the cities in our fortress bases) and probably to steal the oil (that has yet to be debated).
3 The position all Democrats say they support, but only a few really do — Against war in Iraq, against occupation, against continued presence in bases and against the theft of oil.
Where do Democrats REALLY stand?