While Congressional Democrats struggle with how to fund the troops now but force an eventual end to occupation, two other efforts are surreptitiously undermining their efforts. First, occupation supporters want to delay any decision on whether to continue funding from September, a date embraced by nervous Republicans, until next April. Second, the President’s supporters are decoupling the definition of “progress” from the level of violence, so that whenever the next “decision date” occurs, there is a greater chance they can claim progress. The public is thus being prepared to tolerate continued occupation even if the surge fails to significantly stop Iraqis from killing each other.
In this Washington Post article, we find that the Pentagon is already planning to continue the troop escalation well into next year:
The Pentagon announced yesterday that 35,000 soldiers in 10 Army combat brigades will begin deploying to Iraq in August as replacements, making it possible to sustain the increase of U.S. troops there until at least the end of this year.
U.S. commanders in Iraq are increasingly convinced that heightened troop levels, announced by President Bush in January, will need to last into the spring of 2008. The military has said it would assess in September how well its counterinsurgency strategy, intended to pacify Baghdad and other parts of Iraq, is working.
“The surge needs to go through the beginning of next year for sure,” said Lt. Gen. Raymond T. Odierno, the day-to-day commander for U.S. military operations in Iraq. The new requirement of up to 15-month tours for active-duty soldiers will allow the troop increase to last until spring, said Odierno, who favors keeping experienced forces in place for now.
“What I am trying to do is to get until April so we can decide whether to keep it going or not,” he said in an interview in Baghdad last week. “Are we making progress? If we’re not making any progress, we need to change our strategy. If we’re making progress, then we need to make a decision on whether we continue to surge.”
So while Congress (and the WaPo) are under the impression that the key evaluation about whether the surge plan is working will occur in September, Odierno is telling us, “no, it can’t occur until next April.” Another Friedman Unit, anyone?
After Secretary Gates failed to commit to this view, General Odierno claimed he was “misquoted,” suggesting a continuing debate inside the Pentagon. Those who argued for the surge appear to be jockeying to push the decision month into next year, while skeptics like Gates are keeping their options open. But there are also those who are concerned about the condition of the US military. I suspect this latter group is leaking reports to the media that the evidence on the surge is already coming in, and it isn’t good. From the same WaPo article:
Commanders said that even with the ongoing increase in Iraq of tens of thousands of American troops, violence could increase in coming months, and some indicators in Baghdad suggest that is already happening.
Partial data on attacks gathered from five U.S. brigades operating in Baghdad showed that total attacks since the new strategy began in February were either steady or increasing. In some cases, certain kinds of attacks dipped as the U.S. troop increase began, only to begin rising again in recent weeks. Overall, “the number of attacks has stayed relatively constant” in Baghdad, said one U.S. officer, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to be quoted by name.
The U.S. military commands that oversee Baghdad and Iraq as a whole have so far failed to meet requests to release current statistics on attack trends, with some U.S. officers voicing concern that the information would be skewed by critics to argue that the strategy is not working.
How reassuring. But if violence is likely to increase, then the occupation’s supporters cannot have continued funding depend on a decrease in violence, because that would imply that the escalation strategy is already failing. Realizing they may not be able to control the violence, both the President and Secretary Gates made statements this week suggesting that the level of violence should not be the litmus test for sustaining the escalation. The President introduced this argument early in the week by stating that success does not mean an end to violence but only a reduction in violence to levels that allow the Iraqis to go on with their lives. Secretary Gates then clarified the Administration’s position:
“The question is whether the level of violence is such that the political process can go forward in Iraq. And that then sets the stage for us to begin drawing down our troops,” he said.
Got it? September (never mind July) is too early to decide whether the surge is working, and success does not require any definable reduction in the level of violence. The stage is now set for last night.
Last night, after defeating the McGovern bill (171-255) to force a troop withdrawal to begin in 90 days, the House adopted (221 – 205) an Iraq funding bill that would provide about $43 billion of the President’s $100 billion request, enough to cover expenses into July, but then require another vote to release the remaining funds for operations through September. You can watch closing arguments of Democratic leaders here (Pelosi, Obey) and here (Murtha). The bill also requires the President to report in July on Iraqi progress in meeting certain political “benchmarks,” a report that would presumably inform the vote on whether to release the remaining funds. (Selise provided a quick bill summary in last night’s comments.)
Before the House vote, the President made it clear he would veto any two-month funding bill, calling it a dangerous piecemeal approach to waging war — which of course, it is, since the point of the bill is to end the occupation, not continue it without limits. He also signaled his willingness to consider “benchmarks.” That ought to raise red flags to Democrats about the wisdom of linking funding with benchmarks that directly undermine Iraqi sovereignty, even though polls suggest the public agrees with imposing benchmarks on the Iraqis.
It is not clear how the House bill will affect negotiations with the Senate over a final bill. But embracing the benchmarks path is risky when dealing with the Bush/Cheney regime. It is folly to give this regime the leverage to put pressure on the Iraqis to determine important questions about their country’s future. Our direct assault on Iraqi sovereignty is, after all, the principal reason many of the Iraqi insurgents and militias (and Muslims generally) view the US as the enemy. And to hand this leverage to a US regime that has so little judgment and respect for principle is as irresponsible as would be giving them another 100,000 troops to deploy at will. For Congress to give Bush/Cheney any more power, leverage, or influence would only compound the original mistake in voting for the Authorization to Use Military Force.
And what about the Iraqis? If it were your country, would you want Bush/Cheney in a position to strongly influence how to revise your constitution on where to draw the line between federal and provincial authority? Or how to structure your elections? Or dictate the conditions under which your oil resources will be developed and your oil revenues distributed? Would you want this White House influencing hiring decisions, including whether officials from a prior lawless regime should be rehired? The Iraqis desperately need reconciliation, but on their terms, not ours. If the concept of national sovereignty means anything, none of these decisions should be made or influenced by the US government, let alone this US Administration. And if that means that we cannot justify another American death because we can’t control these outcomes, well, welcome to the original folly and illegality of this war.
Photo credit: Gerald Herbert/Pool/Reuters — Cheney greeted by General Petreus in Iraq.
Related posts:
- Changing of the Guard: US Troops Withdraw from Iraqi Cities; Maliki Declares “Sovereignty Day”
- Jim McGovern Catches #RahmFlu, Flips His Vote
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Thomas Ricks – The Gamble: General David Petraeus and the American Military Adventure in Iraq, 2006-2008
- Torture: Obama Heeded Maliki on Abuse Photos, Says McClatchy; What That Says for Our Occupation
- In Iraq, As in So Many Contexts, Withdrawal is Victory





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whoop tee doo
There’s no time like the present to bring the troops home, I humbly suggest.
it’s wrong to do this without reading the post first. but still.
dmg @ 2
Do what?
Boy, did I ever get EPU’ed!
THe V-P looks like a penguin in that photo.
“success is not no violence”
as always, scarecrow, you are on top of things.
your piece a couple months ago about the ever-shifting nature of the defined enemy in iraq stands up as a moment of unshakeable clarity:
the mission is impossible, therefore the mission must end.
dmg @ 8
Applying logic is unfair!
AZ Matt @ 6
few months, if not years, ago, someone photoshopped cheney as The Penguin in the Batman Returns movie. it was perfect: i’ve never shaken that image or the criminal dementia it captured.
raven @ 9
yes, logic has a well-known liberal bias.
AZ Matt @ 6
my first reaction was the little Monopoly guy
F*ck ‘em! Wanna know what I think? SUPPORT THE TROOPS! Especially well respected generals who KNOW what they’re talking about. Don’t play their games anymore. We’ve got them on the run. Keep up the pressure. General John Batiste speaks for me!
Oh yeah: Good Morning ALL.
scarecrow -
thank you for pointing out what i wish was obvious to congress:
this is a message our congress needs to hear.
STTP in Ohio @ 5
No, we just started. ;)
Experts tally Iraq war’s health cost
Few saw it coming, but six years into combat in Iraq and Afghanistan, health care providers are overwhelmed by the demand of returning veterans suffering from mental health stress or traumatic brain injury.
Few understood the financial impact war would have on the Veterans Affairs medical system, projected by a Harvard economist’s study earlier this year to be as much as $600 billion.
article here…
Follow the bouncing demigod. Listen for the drip, drip, drip of plundered oil. Look at the BIG PICTURE!
I was re-reading Glenn Greenwalds book “How Would A Patriot Act?”.
The section that dealt with the days of Nixon and his ilk captured me again. It took about 14 mos. from the break-in before the public was convinced that he was a liar and a crook.
It is that ‘curve’ that has me wondering. 39% support impeachment and that number is rising every day. When do we reach critical mass, at 50%….55%….60%.
It is up to the American public to help break the Camels back.
twolf1 @ 7
Ah — great link; thanks twolf1; I’ve added it to the post.
Iraq may demand timetable for U.S. to get out
BAGHDAD — A majority of Iraq’s parliament has expressed support for a proposed bill that would require a timetable for the withdrawal of U.S. soldiers from Iraq and freeze current troop levels.
what was it that wheatcroft, the brit reporter, wrote about the administration? “in office but not in power.”
well, yes and no. congress is still conflicted on the way to triangulate around the idea that cheney-bush has tightened its grip on the war wheel like a trucker with a bad case of road rage. meanwhile our troops, and iraqis of all stripes, continue to die or be maimed. and for what?
i understand that, up on capitol hill, it’s all about incrementalism, but the pace is supposed to quicken. otherwise, there’s a
growing responsibility about enabling the psychotic.
speaking of the “Tuesday Group,” Ray LaHood will be on Washington Journal (CSPAN1) at 9 this morning. (Raddatz is on now)
Worried Republicans warn Bush that support is on line
If any person ever had a doubt about continuing this war this post should end all doubt.
Good morning, Scarecrow. Excellent post to start the day. Cheney is indeed the Penguin- all that kisser needs is a monocle & top hat…
OT- Fun & games in the Iraqi parliament yesterday, courtesy of Juan Cole:
“Thursday’s session of parliament had to be cut short when a rancorous debate broke out. The initial issue was Shiites displaced from Diyala province to the holy city of Karbala. Speaker Muhammad al-Mashhadani was accused of smiling at a time when grief was more appropriate. He was then upbraided by a fellow Sunni from a different party. He slapped the MP before pounding his gavel and closing the session.”
Oh, sorry. Good morning everyone. The mods have been distracting me. Lovely Spring day in Boston.
A real problem here is that a WAR is being treated like it was a business venture. (Of course in an important sense, it is one.) Setting checkpoints to assess how were doing, is the plan succeeding, do we have the right measures are all metaphors from the business world. War is about survival or it is a criminal adventure. If we are in a war for our survival, we need to put all available resources to it. Increase taxes to pay for it, rationing and the draft would be no-brainers. But were not in a war for survival were in a war for what? We’re in a war so we can be in a war and so all the rest of the talk is a lie.
Get us out now, period. No benchmarks, not checkpoints, nothing. Try our war criminals and let hope the rest of the world doesn’t come looking to us for reparations since we probably couldn’t pay them anymore anyways.
Elliott @ 12
heh, poster boy for the plutocracy.
Thanks Scarecrow for another spot-on hit.
A thought about: “I listen to the commanders in the field and they make the decisions about the progress of the war,” and its variations used by Mister Bush.
First, Bush does not listen, we all know that.
Second, neither Bush nor his “commanders in the field” are EVER the proper authority to decide whether we go to war. That is Congress’ role only.
I wish everytime the GOP threw out this BS about commanders in the field, which is another way they pass the buck on their failures, the Democrats who are working to end the U.S. occupation and war on Iraq would point out
OR
slainte,
cl
Hi Scarecrow. Another great and scary post.
General Batiste noted last night on Countdown that four of the eleven Republics who went to the White House are targeted in the VoteVet ads and (rather gleefully) asked, “What does that tell you?”.
Wasn’t Petraeus the last yes-man left standing? What’s his word worth? If Iraq is a woman, this is one long gang-rape.
AZ Matt @ 6
That was my first thought, too, upon opening this post. Just needs a little hair color and he’s Danny DeVito as The Penguin.
Rayne @ 32
Initially, I too thought of the Penguin, then I remembered that Mr. Cobblepot was never afraid to fight his own battles and perished the thought.
cl
on h.r.2206 – i have a bunch of questions for the collective firepup’s mind.
here’s one of my questions…
$43 billion funds seems like much more than 2 months of funding for the occupation(s)… at a ‘burn rate’ of 2 billion/wk (is that correct?), that would give almost 5 months of funding.
what am i missing?
It’s all PNAC … PERIOD!
Pay attention…there will be a test and this counts for 100% of your grade.
ccmask @ 29
Yeah sorry about the downer, and right after Pach told me to stop being so dreary. However, I do appreciate good humor. From digby’s place, Tristero had one of the funniest posts I’ve read lately.
Next up, a joint advertisement for GM and the RNC
Hummer: Our boys die in them over there so you can take your family to the mall in them over here.
Support the troops.
Completely off topic….
Public release date: 7-May-2007
Contact: Cindy Fox Aisen
caisen@iupui.edu
317-274-7722
Indiana University
Premature births may be linked to seasonal levels of pesticides and nitrates in surface water
INDIANAPOLIS –The growing premature birth rate in the United States appears to be strongly associated with increased use of pesticides and nitrates, according to work conducted by Paul Winchester, M.D., professor of clinical pediatrics at the Indiana University School of Medicine. He reports his findings May 7 at the Pediatric Academic Societies’ annual meeting, a combined gathering of the American Pediatric Society, the Society for Pediatric Research, the Ambulatory Pediatric Association and the American Academy of Pediatrics.
Dr. Winchester and colleagues found that preterm birth rates peaked when pesticides and nitrates measurements in surface water were highest (April-July) and were lowest when nitrates and pesticides were lowest (Aug.-Sept.).
More than 27 million U.S. live births were studied from 1996-2002. Preterm birth varied from a high of 12.03% in June to a low of 10.44% in September. The highest rate of prematurity occurred in May-June (11.91%) and the lowest for Aug-Sept (10.79%) regardless of maternal age, race, education, marital status, alcohol or cigarette use, or whether the mother was an urban, suburban or rural resident. Pesticide and nitrate levels in surface water were also highest in May-June and lowest in August –September, according to the U.S. Geological Survey.
For the past four years, Dr. Winchester and colleagues have focused attention on the outcomes of pregnancy in Indiana and the United States in relation to environmental pesticides and nitrates in surface and drinking water. Last year at the Pediatric Academic Societies’ annual meeting, Dr Winchester reported that birth defects peak in Indiana and in the United States as a whole during April through July, the same months as pesticides and nitrates reach their maximum concentrations in surface water. This year’s presentation expands upon that work.
“A growing body of evidence suggests that the consequence of prenatal exposure to pesticides and nitrates as well as to other environmental contaminants is detrimental to many outcomes of pregnancy. As a neonatologist, I am seeing a growing number of birth defects, and preterm births, and I think we need to face up to environmental causes,” said Dr Winchester, who is also director of Newborn Intensive Care Services at St. Francis Hospital in Indianapolis.
“Preterm births in the United States vary month to month in a recurrent and seasonal manner. Pesticides and nitrates similarly vary seasonally in surface water throughout the U.S. Nitrates and pesticides can disrupt endocrine hormones and nitric oxide pathways in the developing fetus,” he said.
“I believe this work may lay the foundation for some of the most important basic and clinical research, and public health initiatives of our time. To recognize that what we put into our environment has potential pandemic effects on pregnancy outcome and possibly on child development is a momentous observation, which hopefully will help transform the way humanity cares for its world,” said James Lemons, M.D., Hugh McK. Landon Professor of Pediatrics at the IU School of Medicine. Dr. Lemons is director of the section of neonatal-perinatal medicine at the IU School of Medicine and heads the Riley Hospital for Children of Clarian Health’s section of neonatal-perinatal medicine.
###
Collaborating with Dr. Winchester on this study were Akosua Boadiwaa Adu-Boahene and Sarah L. Kosten of the IU School of Medicine, Alex K Williamson of the U.S. Geological Survey, and Ying Jun, Ph.D. of the University of Cincinnati. The work was funded by the Division of Neonatology, Department of Pediatrics of the IU School of Medicine.
Somewhat OT.
I find this article from Raw Story to be very disturbing. Why is the White House worried about taking control in case of a catastrophic incident? I am bothered by this announcement.
Raw Story
Whatever happened to “while their troops stand up, our troops will stand down”? That’s not even part of the plan anymore, is it? What about the fact that we are no longer funding any rebuilding in Iraq?
Does anybody really know what we’re even aiming for in Iraq?
hesikastor @ 31
The Republican reps are setting up Petraeus to now take the fall for the war. Why would they want Petraeus to be the spokesperson for the war? Why not Gates?
It has NEVER been about __________ (fill in whatever lie you’ve heard the Neo-con crowd)
Know the by their actions and imagine a “Permanent Republican Majority”. They must be stopped.
Jackie—The study makes sense for birth defects, but as for causing prematurity I would like to see a comparison from a low-pesticide society. Maybe this is normal seasonal variation.
I don’t think Patraeus’s word is worth much; especially, when the warlord will undoubtedly dictate what Patraeus would say.
If the Iraqis ever get their act together, they’ll show us the way out. That way they can fight among themselves over the oil and everything else we want to “share” with them. What they have to do is safely escort our troops out. That scenario is the most we can hope for at the present.
jackie @ 38
The flaw I see in that report on first pass is that birth defects should be coincident with environmental exposures at conception and in first trimester, not at birth. Not surprised at premature birth rates reported, but what are background or typical rates in comparison across the country and in non-farming areas?
IrishJim @ 39
They’ve been working on that since 9/11. See the text of The Real ID Act and the provision it contains authorizing the AG to suspend all laws without judicial review to protect the borders. And virtually nobody lifted a finger to stop that bit in the bill (save for Ron Paul (R-TX)).
IrishJim @ 39
I view this announcement in a more positive light. Somewhere in the WH there is a grownup who realized handing all government power over to DHS in an emergency was dangerous. A little too tempting to help create an emergency.
GeorgeSimian @ 40
best as i can figure, the bush/cheney/rove regime was going for:
1. control of oil resources
2. demonstration of their awesome power so that the whole world will sit up, take notice, and do what they’re told
3. political cover to permit enactment of their domestic agenda – an imperial presidency and the role back of any social saftey net (social security, fda oversight,…) while enriching themselves and their friends.
Good Morning Scarecrow and Firedogs,
agree, agree, agree, do not allow them leverage on anything – I can’t think of a single instance of Constitutional or legal mandates these criminals have complied with – even when they do ‘comply’ eg, budgets, it is either out of the required standard/format or on their timetable
I did some digging and even the signing statements are so hamfisted they don’t bother to magically sign away the reporting requirements in the bills
Rayne @ 45
yep – first trimester is when i’d exposure to occur.
Bush will never end the war until Iraq is secure enough for US oil companies to invest there. That requires both a political solution (allowance of if not preference to US interests) and a military solution (no sabotage). Then there is the continuing issue of the permanent bases…
Cheney spends a day in a war zone? What happened? Run out of deferments?
selise @ 47
I think you’re spot on with those. Esp. number 3. I think that the war on terror was proving too vague to stand up to scrutiny, so they needed a real war to consolidate their power.
But I imagine all of these reasons coming up in the meetings so that they ended up thinking it was a great idea.
Martha Raddatz was just on CSpan WJ.
Ray Lahood (WH vistit R congressman) up now.
Josh Marshall thinks the Fort Dix Six were in need of remedial terrorist training. Funny.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/
AZ Matt @ 6
Kind of like this?
IrishJim @ 39
Every law they change, they use. Witness what’s happening with Abu and the PatAct and installed political USAs.
They changed the shoot-down order before 9ll and the got us…Cheney in charge of NORAD that fateful day. THINK!
Calling All Bloggers, No Vacations for Anyone
If it is important for the Iraqi Parliament to remain at work and not take a vacation this summer, how about the U.S. Congress and the President? Why should anyone in America take a vacation while our boys and girls are giving their all with repeated tours, extended stays, and stop loss in Iraq?
If our troops can’t take a vacation over there, then neither should we over here. Taking a vacation is a traitorous act. If you are planning on going to the beach or Disneyworld this summer, you are an agent for terrorist. Support the troops, stay home.
“Stay the course”, don’t desert, “surge” your work in the “new way forward” by not taking a vacation.
With U.S. Iraqi policy in its last throes, there is no time for vacations. No vacations for anyone until the mission is over whether it is accomplished or not.
another question on h.r.2206 -
why would the senate or the POTUS object to this bill? no timeline for withdrawal – that’s been stripped right out… and the only benchmarks look, to me, like reporting requiments.
why not just take the money? i have three candidates for bush/cheney’s objections:
1. SEC. 1312 – None of the funds made available in this Act may be used in contravention of the following laws enacted or regulations promulgated to implement the United Nations Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment
2. SEC. 1327 – units may not be deployed unless they are “mission ready”
3. SEC. 1328 – limits the permissible length of combat deployment
Gunga Djinn @ 51
No, he’s just an honorary member of the Bush family member. Real family members never serve.
Prince Harry applied for family membership, but his application has yet to be approved. It looks like he’s going to have to serve.
The Daily Show did a nice segment on what success means in Iraq. Now. According to Bush.
Scout29c @ 57
The Iraqi Parliament is going on a working vacation with Bush. THey are going to help him bring in the current brush crop at his brush ranch.
egregious @ 46
I guess I am more sceptical. I find it scary that Karl Rove and his minions would be the ones responsible for the coordination of government functions in the event of a catastrophic attack. I would think that career Homeland Security personnell would be better able to handle a catastrophic event. IMHO.
Mudge @ 50
there is a bit on permanent bases in h.r.2206, but i don’t understand it:
why is such a (comparatively) small amount being withheld as penalty for the use of funds for permanent bases?
i suppose it’s better than nothing.
They’re playing for keeps and we’re ALL IN. Cheney’s Middle East Trip and the Iraq Oil Law.
Attention female FirePups:
Need one or two more roomies to share a room for YearlyKos to help keep costs down. Looking for non-smokers who don’t mind Michiganders like me.
Drop a note at my blog if you’re interested, or leave a comment for follow-up. Thanks!!
1,512 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Scarecrow and the Firepup Patriots:
Listen, the drums are silent…stop the execution, end the war NOW!!
It is clear that there is a terrible tear in the fabric of our democracy and it is in one of the vital seams, the relationship between the military and the “elected” civilian leadership. Indeed, our situation today has some eery similarities to Nazi Germany. This happened early on in WWII after the Battle of Stalingrad …indeed, like our current situation, the German professional military had great reservations from the beginning about Germany’s ability to sustain a continent-wide war for any length of time.
Here in our country, instead of lookin’ to Watergate and the Nixon administration for parallels, I think we should look to Nazi Germany. Hitler came to power in a tainted election with less than 35% of the vote, he spent the next few years consolidating power through terror and dismantling the political structures of the “rule of law” and instituting unitary executive authority demanding loyalty to “the leader”.
The ruling elite that included the families of the professional military leadership thought that they could control the little paper-hanger until Germany got re-armed but when things got serious and they realized that “the leader” was out of his fuckin’ mind, they couldn’t stop the relentless excelleration to disaster that was the success of the Blitzkreig and the inevitable attack on the Soviet Union. When the handwriting was on the wall after the Battle of Stalinrad, powerful members of the German military General Rommel actually tried an assination-coup but the rest, as they say is history.
We are at the point that Germany was after Stalingrad, our military leadership is hopelessly divided among those who will stay out of loyalty to their troops and those who must resign in order to try and influence a political change in course. In the meantime, like Germany, the physical resourses of the Army have been exausted and even with a draft and taxation to build the equipment necessary, there is not enough time to train the soldiers and get the eq
selise @ 14
But but but but … didn’t we just pass a bill with benchmarks? I thought I heard a chorus of cheers.
I’m all for pulling the troops out beginning now, and I’m all for Iraqis making there own choices about their country. But the leverage you speak of is available to the administration anytime they want to use it, bill or no bill.
I think the longer we stay the less influence we ahve on the Iraqi regime. As time marches on the Saudi and Irainian influence over Iraqi internal matters will continue to grow, IMHO.
Our troop presence in Iraq —threat of withdrawal, and the ’surge’– is less about what the Iraqi government will do, and more about what regional players will do. From Stratfor:
Nuri Al-Maliki is still consolidating his power and is of little help in this regard until he does. There just isn’t much to leverage here, unless the point is to hasten the sharp drawing of sectarian lines. More from Stratfor:
This sounds right to me.
When troops are pulled out of Iraq, the US military will have a mess on its hands because there is no evacuation plan. Congress should attach funds to whatever bills it passes requiring the Pentagon to prepare and present its evacuation plan in 90 days.
What? Did you say that the US military has no intentions of leaving Iraq? Response #1. Without a plan, there is no option for its leaving Iraq. With a plan, it becomes an option. Response #2. US forces may not have a choice about departure in the future, so a plan would be handy in case the issue is forced.
(P.S. I bet the Marines have an evacuation plan.)
All the politics, ALL THE POLITICS, are just time wasting distractioins, a shell game……TRUE LIES!
…uipment to the theater of operations in time toprevent disaster. The former Soviet Union experienced something similar in Afghanistan and it led to the collapse of that state.
It’s time to realize that we are suffering a full-blown fascist takeover and “the leader” has no intension of leaving the field until all our soldiers and another half a million Iraqis are dead.
Our politicians need a mass movement of direct action in the street to force this regime out of power.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, THIS IS OUR FIGHT NOW, WE OWE IT TO THE CHILDREN!!
Lou Costello @ 64
That’s a sobering assessment.
Although I understand your fervor, Scarecrow, your unwaivering steadfastness in this opinion is not dissimilar from the admin’s unwaivering steadfastness in virtually every misstep of its tenure. There are something like 400 people in the US Congress. A majority of them must come to an agreement on something. And all must remain flexible in their ideals in order to come to an agreement. If all remained so hardened in their opinions nothing would get done.
This benchmark thing is a Bush creation presented in the SOTU speech in January. It’s something the congress can agree to hold him to account on. This is an incremental step, clearly. One that may give something in order to get, but I believe that once an inch is given this congress will take and take and take from this administration until there is nothing left. Think reverse Friedman Unit. Every few months another chunk of power removed. Every time he fights to get out of his cage the smaller it gets.
I’m optimistic that this legislation will pass (perhaps even override a veto) and we’ll revisit this in July when, ideally, the Congress will not back down and fund according to benchmark progress and force troop withdrawals.
Dear Mr. President,
Seeing it as my patriotic effort to stay on script with the Global War on Terr, I just want to make sure I’m on the same page as you and your administration, which continues to serve at your pleasure:
1. We were about weapons of mass destruction; then we weren’t, but we still needed to bring democracy to Iraq by staying the course.
2. We were never about stay the course.
3. We’re moving forward. Always.
4. We define “democracy” as holding elections and drawing up a Constitution, plus some pesky oil-related who-gets-how-much issues.
5. We don’t torture.
6. Except enemy combatants.
7. We need access to Americans’ phone records and mail, but only the ones doing bad things internationally.
8. Or who may be enemy combatants.
7. “Enemy combatants” are anyone you say fits the description.
8. The enemy is bent on destroying our way of life, so we have to hold them and since they’re not part of a country’s army, they’re not entitled to rights.
9. We don’t torture.
10. Our goal is an Iraq that can “govern, sustain and defend” itself.
11. Plus, be a partner in the Global War on Terr.
12. We can’t say we support the troops but not the war.
13. Progress is too tough to measure to try and set measures.
14. If we leave, the enemy will follow us home.
15. Success is an acceptable level of violence.
16. This is not a civil war; this is the work of al Quaida.
17. The billions upon billions of dollars needed are well-spent; trust you.
Have I left anything out, Mr. President?
infoshaman @ 68
Marine Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff…No U.S. Backup Strategy For Iraq
They ain’t leaving. The ’surge’ was an escalation. Already out of the news. Wonder why? Pentagon Tells 35,000: Prepare to Deploy Iran here we come. Have a nice day.
I just love a blast of north wind in the morning
1,512 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Jason:
“I’m optimistic that this legislation will pass…and we’ll revisit this in July
when, ideally, the Congress won’t back down and…force troop withdrawals.”
I love you, man, but you have been smokin’ some seriously wild shit. There will be no change in this war without massive direct action to force the Congress to act…even if the Congress were to defund today, the administration would ignore the legislation , stick out it’s tongue and give the country the bird. No, friend, the Congress is gunna hafta be convinced that the mass of people are behind ‘em (and in front of ‘em)…and more importantly, they are gunna hafta understand that this administration is not goin’ anywhere unless we toss ‘em out.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION …GOD IS WAITIN’ FOR THE BASTARDS!!
Jason — it’s not clear that last night’s bill will survive in the Senate, and obviously some compromise between this and whatever the Senate might create on its own will have to be struck. I see two opposing forces — one trying to force another decision in July, rather than September, and the other trying to kick the can into 2008. So perhaps the House strategy is to get the Senate to agree to forcing another vote in between — September.
wrt to the benchmarks, if they become conditions that move us towards withdrawal, and not an empowerment of this regime, that’s fine. But I don’t know how one does the first without risking the second.
“our obligations”? Listen you stupid SOB: Get out of there. Now!
You want to try reconcilliation and development? Try a little on the Palestininian-Israeli stalemate. Geez. What does it take with you guys?
AP – Gordon Brown launched his campaign to become Britain’s next prime minister on Friday, pledging to learn from the mistakes of the Iraq war while honoring “our obligations to the Iraqi people.” Brown, who faces no serious opposition after waiting more than a decade for his chance to lead the country, said there needed to be a stronger emphasis on political reconciliation and economic development in Iraq.
Anyone that Blair endorses as his successor, is as suspect as anyone George Bush would anoint.
The concept of giving benchmarks to the Iraqi government would only make sense if they wanted us to stay and we wanted to leave. Then we could say, “if you want us to stay, you have to do x”
They don’t want us to stay and with the exception of BushCo, we want to leave. So benchmarks are just another way of moving the goalposts so Bush can leave office and have his mess cleaned up by someone else.
The “cakewalk in Iraq” zealots/liars are pushing hard for “Divest from Iran” legislation across the nation. They need to be stopped!
Iaea’s El Baradei (who called the liars out on the carpet before the invasion, but our MSM ignored him) has said that there is no “hard evidence” to back up the unsubstantiated claims about Iran’s “alleged” nuclear weapons program. El Bardei has asked that the zealots/liars “inflammatory rhetoric” about Iran’s “alleged” nuclear weapons program to be “turned down”
General Wesley Clark, General Zinn, Madeline Albright, Zbigniew Brezinski, Flynt Leverett, Scott Ritter and many more have all said that diplomacy is what is needed in regard to Iran.
Please read this article at Anti-war.com
http://www.antiwar.com/lobe/?articleid=10949
If you won’t listen to me…hear KO: PROGRESS? All BS. Piles and piles of it! A Look Back at the “Mission” We’ve “Accomplished”
Cheney looks as if he is going to implode in that picture above! I can dream and pray!
Jason @ 72
At the current rate, between now and July when you so cooly and dispassionately say we’ll ostensibly revisit this matter, at least 200 more troops will die.
There’s a reason for unwavering steadfastness.
There are at least 200 of them.
I predict that Petraeus, like Westmoreland, in September will see light at the end of the tunnel.
Yo mods. If you have the time and inclination would you please clean up my typooos on my #78. I can be so untidy. Thx. ;0)
NOVEL IRAQ SOLUTION:
1. Declare the escapade in Iraq “a school.”
2. Apply the “No child left behind” law to it.
3. Clearly, the school will be closed.
Yeah right the invasion of Iraq was not about “oil and Israel”. Iraqi oil was nationalized in the early 60’s and now we are busy (hello drowning in blood Paul Bremer) trying to privatize.
A sea of Iraqi blood all for access and control of their oil. Outrageous and criminal!
Petraeus reacts to the story about US troop willingness to use torture, not report civilian deaths, etc. Says US troops can’t use torture, no matter what. WaPo link.
got your benchmarks right here
sent this one to McNierney and told him to go ‘refresh’ himself
egregious @ 43
Also, a fetus would be most vulnerable to pesticides etc much earlier in the pregnancy.
Christy has a new thread up.
From a thread yesterday…
jayt @ 68
BRILLIANT! Send it back! J.Edwards/We the People
1,512 dayz and the killin’ goez on and on and..
Firepup Patriots:
My heart is broken…I realize that my promise to my children that I would keep them safe and nothing and no one would take their future from them is lost.
We don’t have time here folks, to pretend that the serious, frantic actions of representative politics means a good Goddamn. WAKE UP PEOPLE…these bastards have already moved their finances and headquarters to Dubai and have retirement estates in Paraguay. The military is broken and the only trained and equipped military force capable of enforcing any civil order belongs to a Christianist zealot whose hands drip with blood.
This nightmare is real and it won’t stop until we force our elected leadership to lead and haul the bastards to Leavenworth.
KEEP THE FAITH, THE BUCK STOPPED A LONG TIME AGO IN A BANK IN SWITZERLAND!!
If we pull out of Iraq and we do not address the issue of a Palestinian homeland, this unjust situation, which our government helped to foment (failure to support UN Res. 242, etc.) will continue to fester. And give a grand, and valid reason for most of those in the Middle East to continue hating us. Of course there are other reasons why the peoples of the region dislike us so. But real work to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian situation by us, would be a good place for America to begin working toward healing the wounds we have caused.
Fresh thread, kids — and now for a second cuppa coffee…
Amen, brother kiddo, a-fuckin’-men!!
*sigh*
Alls I can say is that I hope this will lead to something positive at some point. I’m exhausted with trying to pick apart what is really going on.
Other than to say I found it very ironic that so many Repubican Congressmen were pleading the case, last night, for the farming/fishery/wildfire prevention bill. I feel for their constituents, but I found it ironic that their representatives would be up there begging for federal assistance (which sounds like it’s badly needed) when Newt wanted to drown the federal gov’t in the bathttub and their stinkin’ party thought that was an awesome idea, as long as the fed gov’t continues to help big business, of course.
I am so disgusted with Publicans that I just can’t pick on Dems right now. And that’s saying a lot, coming from “radical” ole me. I guess I’m just worn down with daily outrages and frustration.
Scarecrow: you might want to think about just exactly how we are going to get our people out of that sand pit. I worry that we will have to fight our way out. The requirement that the pentagon develop a withdrawal plan seems like a good place to start.
And don’t worry about dreary. Feels like reality to me, and I like that before I go to work.
Oh, yeah, Chimphead had to repeat, last night, the whole “Al-Qaeda attacked us on 911 and so we must continue the fight in Iraq” for the gazillionth time. I guess that’s his only card left so he’s humping it for all it’s worth since reporters, I guess, are tired of confronting him with that “phallacy” time and time again. Not that they don’t have an obligation to do so, but geez, again, it’s exhausting to have to do their jobs for them all the time which is why I appreciate so much FDL’s commitment to doing just that.
I am so glad I am going home for Mother’s Day so I can vent to my family, I’m so mad and disgusted.
NorskeFlamethrower @ 94
Tap, tap, tap…is this thing on? I couldn’t have said it better. Or maybe I did with all the links above. Anyone who still thinks they’re gonna go peaceful into that good night in ‘08 has a rude awakening coming…SOON. May I suggest gold and silver coins? *wink
I wish more “opinion leaders” would speak up about the complete moral bankruptcy of benchmarks.
I mean, we destroy the Iraqis’ country, fail utterly to rebuild it, and then issue deadlines for them to get their shit together. And Dems and Rethugs engage in self-congratulatory pissfests on who can set the most stringent deadlines on the vanquished, because acknowledging their own culpability for this massive crime would…I don’t know… raise whiffs of Nuremberg?
Does Cheney look like the Penguin?
oddball @ 18
On of those moderate Republicans that spoke with the President said in one area of his District only 5% of those surveyed in his private polling supported the President anymore. That means in that area one could ask 20 people and only one would say that they supported Bush!
In the highly partisan Rasmussen poll Bush’s support has dwindled to 16% for those that “strongly support” Bush. 45% “strongly oppose” Bush. That means for every one that still think Bush can do no wrong…there are three that think he and his administration are a bunch of corrupt vermin.
ccmask @ 20
Okay…it’s the “end game”. How can anyone think that there can be any attainment of “benchmarks” or improvement of the situation if a large majority of the Iraqi Parliament can simply vote against the “benchmarks” or decide to “take a vacation” this summer until the US gives a date when we will leave.
Bush may think that he and Maliki are “Gods” (i.e. Dictators, Tyrants, Despots, Emperors, Czars, Kings, etc.) but the legislatures are now holding the cards.
Both the Iraqi Parliament and the US Congress (either House) can simply NOT pass measures and end US participation. Short of an Unconstitutional coup-de-tat there is nothing these Presidents can do about it.
Congress has now got to realize that a majority of Iraq’s parliament are DEMANDING a timetable…and that unless such a timetable is passed by the US Congress they will simple not move toward a political resolution.
Sally @ 54
It seems that the absence of terrorists in the US required the FBI to have to arrange training and supply of them…as well as ideological classes (which they were not getting from their imam).
“No terrorist left behind”.
Badwater @ 61
That’s not just brush…it’s BIO-ENERGY. Arbusto Unlimited is about to establish a brush processing plant at Crawford thus reducing their taxes while assisting Americas energy needs.
Jackie @ 38:
Stockholm Treaty: in 2001 or therafter, more than 150 nations signed the treaty which seeks to curb pesticides, and EXPORTING those. The US did not sign, and continues export hundreds of thousands of tons of them to developing countries.
Was, for example, in a resort in Bali, and what they sprayed in order to keep their Westerns guests bug free was god-awful.
selise @ 63
why is such a (comparatively) small amount being withheld as penalty for the use of funds for permanent bases?
i suppose it’s better than nothing.
I think that is the total amount being issued in the bill (2 months = $275 billion). So it would effectively deny the use of any of this supplemental for the use in producing permanent basing.
cinnamonape @ 105
Why are you against the Iraq War? Are you against the crassness and duplicity of a spoiled Bush and the privileged life he has led leading us into this debacle? What would you have done to oppose Bush that was not done in 2002/3? On what terms or conditions or events could the Iraq War have been avoided when Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice/Hadley were pulling the trigger? Have you considered whether the Iraq War could have been avoided at all? Would it have happened if there had been no 9/11?
Just carping about what a bunch of shitheads Bush and his wife, Cheney and his wife, Rice, Rumsfeld and his wife and Hadley and his wife are avoids the real issues. By the way I do refer to wife in the possessive tense with a purpose?
IrishJim @ 39
What it could mean is fewer people knowing about a potential attack. Actual practice is to start moving the ’shadow government’ out of the District when a situation begins to heat up. (Sort of an extreme version of Cheney and his secret bunker.)
The bad news about this is, if the White House is in charge, they might only alert members of their political party when an attack could be on the way.
And this is how the new troops will get there:
Military in Iraq tags U.S. airlines
Carriers now prohibited from flying into country would augment transit missions
Paul J. Caffera, Special to The Chronicle
Tuesday, May 8, 2007
If the military gets its way, U.S.-flagged air carriers soon may be allowed to fly into Iraq.
Since October 1996, aircraft registered in the United States have been prohibited from operating in Iraq by the Federal Aviation Administration’s Special Federal Air Regulation Number 77. U.S. aircraft have only been permitted to make overflights at altitudes exceeding 20,000 feet.
Since the run-up to the war in Iraq, U.S. airlines have played an integral part in moving personnel and material overseas for deployment in Iraq.
An estimated 90 percent of the people, and about half of the equipment, deployed to Iraq flew to the region aboard commercial airlines…
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/arti…..PMR6S1.DTL
This article appeared on page A – 16 of the San Francisco Chronicle
[Mod Note; Interesting article. However, to help keep the FDL servers running smoothly and to avoid any possible copyright issues, please don’t post entire articles. An excerpt and a link is just fine. Thank you.]
cinnamonape @ 109
I think that is the total amount being issued in the bill (2 months = $275 billion). So it would effectively deny the use of any of this supplemental for the use in producing permanent basing.
i don’t think so (if i’m counting zero’s correctly). it’s $275 million – less than a week’s worth of occupation funding.
cinnamonape @ 109
I think that is the total amount being issued in the bill (2 months = $275 billion). So it would effectively deny the use of any of this supplemental for the use in producing permanent basing.
I don’t think so. The figure Selise quotes of $275 million, not billion. My guess is that there was an item in the budget request that was ambiguous and could be construed to support permanent bases; so the bill says, in effect, “you can’t spend this until you clarify what this is for, and if it’s for permanent bases, you can’t have it.” Just a guess.
I think the congress should do whatever it can to bring the troops home as soon as possible – deadlines, benchmarks, whatever. But since Bush seems to be saying no way, I think they should also make sure he pays for it (literally). Put this war back on the books. Take the money allocated for Iraq out of the Strategic Defense funds (aka Star Wars), place a war surtax on the upper income levels (the lower and middle class have already paid with their children), and if the troops aren’t out by the end of the year – tell Bush that there will be a draft (to stop the breaking of the armed forces). Maybe if it would hurt HIS constituents some action will be taken.
You’re right…I TOTALLY misread that. It is odd! Unless this is expenditures specified for a specific purpose related to base construction or something….and that the other funds are allocations for other items. But unless it applies to the full supplemental it is pretty much useless.
The problem is that once Bush gets the money allocated, my understanding is that he can shift things around as he sees fit unless it specifically says he CAN’T. Thus he could take money from the budget for MRE’s and put it into “permanent base construction”, and then shift money from another pool into MRE’s.
They needed to block ANY permanent base construction with this bill (and future bills), including with moneys that are going to the Iraqis so they can build bases (and shouldn’t that be coming from their own oil revenues?).
leftdcin72 @ 110
Since you seem to be scolding ME for “carping” I would ask what YOU THINK YOU should have done in 2002/3 to stop this war from occurring? I was working with groups in California (including Veteran’s groups against the war) protesting and trying to educate people about the absurdity of the claims of WMD’s and Al Qaida links.
I agree that this isn’t just about Bush (or any other personality). There are larger INSTITUTIONAL issues. But such personalities are necessary because they are the ones that are dependant upon the need to “act tough”, are generally incompetant at finding other solutions and pograms to bolster their self-esteem, fail to look at the consequences of their actions beyond the benefits that will accrue to their cronies, etc.
But since you are scolding me…I can ask the same question of you…after all YOU also failed to stop the war. What happened?
extraneous comment made to avoid dusting furniture:
anyone else notice the shooter has some colour in his face in video/pix from this trip?
he gets a rush outta diving into green spots unannounced, even without a cardboard turkey?
his regulation styrofoam-padded vest is pressing on the ticker/regulator?
he likes surges?
-um-
*okayyyyy honeyyyyy! coming! just a sec!
i’m dusting the ‘puter!*
Scarecrow – I second the comments about “dreary”. Don’t fret over that, imo. We need your scrutiny of the facts and the facts are dreary on a good day.
Also I think you intended to link to the vote count via Janes post… if so, that doesn’t end up where you intended.. (her link doesn’t go to the vote tally.)
Here is the link to the House votes on the McGovern amendment.
Upon noticing R.Perle had another “I didn’t say that-I wasn’t thinking that” Op-Ed WAPO moment earlier today I tried lots of “suspended belief” but it didn’t take hold.
It is beyond amazing that Perle–a PNAC NeoCon/Lets Invade Iraq gamer/player gets to twist,spin and distort his record on WAPO Op-Ed page despite the factual smoke and mirrors he engages in with no apparent sense of shame or honesty in evidence. Shame on the WaPo Op-Ed Page.
It should be plainly evident the idea of Americans actually leaving Iraq and letting the Iraqis run Iraq is going to be long in coming about. There is a sizeable DC mob who seem to truly think Iraq is now an American sandbox and Americans can meddle,muddle and piddle all they want in Iraq. It is no longer Shock and Awe –it has become Muck-It-Up Badly and Maybe Die Too for lots of American soldiers,contracted workers and certainly for way too many Iraqis with no letup to be seen.
Getting in was so insanely easy back there in early 2003–insanely easy–getting out will be a passage back through the Gates of Hell.
For Iraq and Iraqis Hell has come to Earth. The Americans can’t kill their way out,can’t spend their way out and certainly are showing little evidence of political ability to face the truth and fact of having created a debacle that will require genuine sacrifice and admission of American failure and defeat.
For those of us looking for some heartfelt compassion and profiles in/of courage to do what is morally,ethically and politically forthright from WashDC it is so sadly likely the wait will indeed be a long,arduous one.
Why does everybody get so excited about benchmarks. The Boy King will just tack on a signing statement about how he doesn’t have to pay attention to them.
Eureka Springs — I meant to link to Jane’s post generally, which announced the defeat of the bill, then I added the vote count in parenthesis. Sorry that wasn’t clear.
cinnamonape @ 117
I was so disillusioned by what you refer to as the larger instituional issues that I copped out so to speak. When Bush outdebated Gore, I stopped giving money. I am totally disillusioned by the Democratic party and the Clintons. I worked hard for McGovern and was directly involved in a staff position in that campaign. But that was because there was no one better and McGovern was not a competent Presidential candidate.
But one of things I did to attempt to stop the Iraq war was to write repeatedly to Clinton, my Senator complaining about the incompetence of Tenet and her “reliance” on Tenet. She never answered.
One of my problems with how do you stop people like Bush is whay did we ever have to have the Clintons. The answer seems to be that we should have skipped the Vietnam War generation and the political “leaders” who emerged from that generation. The only politicians to come out of that generation are self serving and basically dishonest because that generation, my generation, was emasculated by the Vietnam war. And now we have to live with the legacy of George Bush and Bill Clinton.
My solution, move on to Obama’s generation and try not to look back.
leftdcin72 @ 123
a bit too convenient, no?
Lou Costello @ 35
Yep. Since Leo Strauss took his first breath, since Newt Contracted On Us. This admin WILL make a grasp for extended Executive Control beyond 2008. PNAC ensures us of that.
IrishJim @ 39
That’s VERY interesting because today the SF Chron/SF GATE had THIS to publish:
Article About Nuke Attack.
Two articles about a similar subject, that gets almost NO airplay?
And these are not small briefcase nuke scenerio’s.
These scenerio’s are big as Hiroshima nukes.
I smell rats and penquins . . .
Harumph.
Last thing I wanna see is THIS Admin shifting more power in the future to the Executive Branch . . . it’s an open invitation for THEM to let loose a nuke on someone, and blame terrorists. Just to grab power, impose martial law, etc. I mean, this tinfoil stuff is getting more and more real every day they are in power.
egregious @ 45
But you have EXACTLY that same issue, EVEN MORE SO, with the present admin . . . which is the GOD CHILD of PNAC, and whose goal IS to establish a neverending Shrubonia!
Consolidation of too much centralized power is really, really becoming a scary reality. The Supreme’s are no longer tempered. The DOJ is hopelessly staffed and politicized . . . this is NOT tinfoil histrionics (don’t mean to imply you said it was) . . . scary.
dmg @ 124
Ok you treat Gore, Kerry and the Clintons as the inconvenient truth, no pun intended, and now you can support Hillary, the hard way.
Lou Costello @ 64
Thanks Lou, I hadn’t seen that link and info, although one just KNOWS Cheney is there for oil, and leverage.
Here’s the ONE thing I just don’t get about all this.
Wouldn’t the PRIVATIZATION of Iraqi Oil be a direct threat to OPEC, UAE, House of Saud, et al?
Or, are there back door deals to sell them weapons and keep oil prices high for their profits, and a promise of ‘protection’ from Iran (including an imminent invasion of Iran)?
That’s the ONLY thing I can’t quite reconcile about all of this . . . how House Of Saud has allowed us to do what we’ve done which SHOULD be a direct threat to them in SO many ways . . . . thanks in advance for any feedback. Great info, links and thoughts FDL Pups, I sure appreciate it all.
It seems to me the heat under the pan of water us frogs are Hot Tubbing in has been kicked up MORE than an Emeril BAM!
EllenG @ 80
Beg to differ.
The Dem’s are no different than BoyKing and PNAC. Only the NeoCons and BoyKing HAVE a PNAC. The Dem’s are gonna fall along with it, as they take money from the same sources that the NeoCons and BoyKing and ReThug/Fundie’s do.
Our current situation is one of the USA having BECOME Big Brother, and who rules the ‘roost’ is almost irrelavent.
And I DO think the present admin, on behalf of Big Brother, will make a concerted grab for permanent power concentrated within the Executive by staging the next MOST HORRIFIC domestic terror act to do so.
I don’t believe for ONE minute that anything that goes on in the House or Senate with a slim Dem Majority means anything to our futures other than a dance to see who will wear the crown . . . . the end results are all gonna be the same. It just makes for good Goebbel’s like PR to have it SEEM like there’s still two party’s involved in running this country. There aren’t.
Kathleen @ 81
I hadn’t gotten to AW.com today yet, so thanks for Lobe’s read, he’s always on spot.
My Devil’s Advocate tells me, this action Lobe is writing about is code for “We’re goin in, boys, get yer $ outta there now, and we’ll cut you back in when things settle down.” I don’t see Lobe’s article in ANY positive light as to bringing economic pressure on Iran, I see it as saving US business interests and giving them a heads up.
Kathleen @ 88
Absolutely! And aided and abetted and funded by both sides of the aisle and their Big Brother.
GeorgeSimian @ 40
We can’t read their minds, but their actions indicate some clear goals.
They want to make money off the war.
They want to lock in future oil profits too.
They want to drag it out as long as possible to make more money.
They want to end it when they choose for political purposes, to claim victory and run the parade through the 2008 Republican Convention to win the presidency again and continue the war forever.
They want to claim victory, in the end, to avoid having to admit defeat, so the next time they’re in power they can do it all over again without any hesitation or shame.
They are simply using it as a tool to achieve nefarious goals which had nothing to do with national defense. They’re all war criminals — including the whole lot of them in the administration and in the wider ranging Republican party support structure.
Brisingamen @ 111
The best evidence of which I’m aware (which is publicly known) that our government knew 9/11 was going to happen was the short-selling of stocks (an indication someone thought those stocks were going to lose value in the very short term). The reason it’s very clear is that the short-selling occurred in the airlines whose airplanes were actually hijacked. That means we didn’t just suspect they were going to use airplanes, we knew specifically which airlines would be involved. Then there is the specific dates when the short-selling occurred. That tell us they knew to within a day or two when it was going to happen. Finally, if anyone looked at the records they would discover who did the short-selling and that would lead, like a trail of bread crumbs, to those in government who knew and spread the word.
It’s all there for those who want to connect the dots.
I saw Lee Hamilton and Tom Kean on a talk show last night and couldn’t stand it. Hamilton was saying how the 9/11 wives were great. I was wondering why everyone wasn’t calling for the investigation. What did Hamilton and his bunch have to hide. Hamilton was saying how those wives didn’t always agree with the commission findings. I was wondering how there could be any difference of opinion if the facts were clearly identified or why they didn’t investigate further to clarify issues. Clearly the commission wasn’t wanted and had to cover up things while doing their work almost in full public.
Why would anyone in America want to hide stuff about the 9/11 attacks? I can’t imagine why unless they would be embarassed or indicted as a result.
So, to tie this in to the story about the ’shadow government’, who gives a flying f***. They have no shame and they’re already crapping on us. What more could a shadow government do? It’s just different faces (or shadows, I suppose) of the same government running things now.
MONEY, POWER, FOREVER are the goals.
ANYTHING GOES is the tactical attitude.
Or, to paraphrase Karl Rove, America is fair game.
Lou Costello @ 101
Unfortunately, I agree. They’re gonna “attack” this country themselves, just like they did on 9/11. Only this time, they’re gonna kill a hell of a lot more people.
cynic @ 135
And you WON’T hear about it, or get a dialogue about it, on the MSM, or the blogs, it seems.
Maybe On AW.com . . . . .
Like A*P*C, it’s not to be uttered, anywhere else . . . . .
N that, is horse shit. Pure horse donkey doo doo. Cuz It IS the first issue at hand. We have LOST our country, and I don’t hear anywhere enuff about THAT, here and now. HMMMMM????
Harumph.
(MOD NOTE: *edited to allow through filters)
It’s a waste of time talking about it. The Dems don’t have the cojones to stand up to the Toddler in Chief. It should be the same bill, time after time, until he gives in or runs out of money.
Dear FDL I sent this to Move on:
Kos,FDL,Next Hurrah,TPM and other blogs keep exposing more Bush administration and Republican crime against the People of the USA. The public trust is in shambles. It is time for a new contract with America, The US Constitution. No more rule by Faith based values that the Bush Cabal and the Oligarchy are hiding behind. Those values are long tarnished by missing virtue. The media is not telling the story. They have spent our International political capital and world credibility. We no longer have a credible military detente in the Middle East. Our National treasury has been given to the corporations that supply the war machine. Our domestic policy is neglected and basic FEMA due diligence does not exist for our Nation. There is great reason for republican Congress people to join you. They are in peril of losing more seats in Congress. Some may care more about their country than their party. The Impeachment will hold their feet to the fire in front of the American people.
The rule of law is ignored. While in The Color of Law
Police officers, prison guards and other government officials who improperly abuse the rights of individual Americans have long been recognized in federal law as a threat to society as a whole. That’s why, immediately after the Civil War, Congress approved Title 18 USC 242 — a statute making it a crime to deprive any person of their rights “under color of law.” (Habeus Corpus)
On this basis alone Bush, Cheney and the rest of the rat pack that comprises the administration must be relieved of command. Bush like any other commander has culpability for the abuse of war powers.
As chief Federal law enforcement Officer AG Gonzales must be Impeached next week for Contempt of Congress as well as Condelezza Rice for snubbing Congress. Bush like the Enlightened Despots of Europe has usurped the Sovereignty of the People and must be relieved of command as well as Cheney immediately. The window of opportunity is a fleeting chance and must be used now.
Congress has the podium and must reveal the offenses this administration is engaged in. Please Move On this important concern.
Thank You,
Al Barrow, President, Citizens for Affordable and Safe Environment