
Oh, lawdy, here we go again.
From today's New York Times:
After months of conflicting signals on abortion, Rudolph W. Giuliani is planning to offer a forthright affirmation of his support for abortion rights in public forums, television appearances and interviews in the coming days, despite the potential for bad consequences among some conservative voters already wary of his views, aides said yesterday.
… Mr. Giuliani’s aides were concerned both because the responses opened him up to a new round of criticism from abortion critics, who have never been happy with the prospect of a Republican presidential candidate who supports abortion rights, while threatening to undercut his image as a tough-talking iconoclast who does not equivocate on tough issues.
Oh, my aching neck! How does one say in one breath that "after months of conflicting signals on abortion," Rudy Giuliani is planning to offer a forthright affirmation of abortion rights, and then in the next, say he doesn't equivocate on tough issues? 404 Error, dude! Rudy doesn't waffle? Giuliani should be in a cage death match with Alberto Gonzales for the title of Best Non-Answer Answers.
I'm assuming that because the multiple versions of his position on abortion supplied thus far haven't polled very well, his campaign advisors figured, why the hell NOT just come out and say that he's pro-choice? How much worse could it get? (I suppose Rudy Giuliani can't pass the twenty bucks off the way Mitt Romney just did and claim that it wasn't he, but his wife, who made the donation to Planned Parenthood.)
Mr. Giuliani’s aides argued that Republican voters had been aware of his support for abortion rights before last Thursday’s debate. And they argued that abortion and other social issues were not as decisive for Republican primary voters in this election, providing Mr. Giuliani with an opportunity to break from a 30-year tradition and run as a Republican nominee who supports abortion rights.
Helloooooo? This is the United States of America we're talking about. Y'know, the place that fears change almost as much as it fears brown-skinned people who aren't members of "The Congregation"? And quite frankly, Mr. Giuliani was all over the map in his appearance at the debate last week, even with Chris Matthews lobbing slobbery softballs at him. In fact, the only thing missing from Giuliani's dramatic performance was his tossing a feather boa over his shoulder and declaring "I'm ready for my close-up, Mr. DeMille!"
His aides said polling had found a relatively small number of voters who would base their vote solely on abortion. They argued that Mr. Giuliani’s appeal was based on what many Americans see as a tough leadership style that helped turn New York City around in the 1990s, and carry it through the attacks of Sept. 11.
And what happens, Mr. Giuliani, when the bloom is off your 9/11 Rose? When more people see that there is no milk chocolate beneath your hard candy shell? I'm starting to question whether Giuliani's heart is really in this, or if he's purposely surrounded himself with ambivalent, fatalistic advisors who simply don't understand the game and have thus doomed him to failure as they shrug their shoulders and say, in effect, "eh, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it."
Yes, it takes courage to assume an unpopular stand on a subject with the greatest voltage in Republican politics. Yes, you're going to alienate approximately 43% of Republican voters who are anti-choice. Maybe you'll pick up some Reagan Democrats, but not enough to cover the difference. But the point is this: you want to hold yourself out as the "tough talking iconoclast who doesn't equivocate on tough issues"? Maybe you should have contemplated ALL of the angles playing that part would require before you threw your famously fickle pillbox hat into the ring. (And yes, this applies to the Democratic candidates, as well.)
P.S. Oh, and speaking of incompetent aides, Rudy, I really don't think it's a good idea to shit on the good folks in "the heartland." Via Greg Sargent:
OLIN–Last weekend Deb and Jerry VonSprecken of Olin received a call from former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani’s campaign office asking them if they would be interested in holding a campaign rally on May 4, after she had donated to his campaign.
“We thought it would be an honor and agreed,” said Jerry.
…
On Tuesday Deb received a call from Giuliani’s Des Monies office and was asked to call New York. “They wanted to know our assets,” she revealed, and added that she and Jerry have a modest 80 acre farm and raise cattle.
Later she received a call from Tony Delgado at the Des Monies location.
“Tony said, ‘I’m sorry, you aren’t worth a million dollars and he is campaigning on the Death Tax right now.’ then he said they weren’t going to be able to come,” Deb continued.
Oh, well-played, Rudy. Exceedingly classy, indeed. I think you should give your campaign staff raises for that one.
Related posts:
- Early Morning Swim: Rachel Interviews NWHF President Who Fears More Anti-Choice Violence
- Health Care: White House Discourages Making Waves on Reproductive Health and Choice
- Anti-Choice Men: The Go-To Source for Abortion Opinion
- Late Night: Sarah Palin Consults Her Little Black Book
- Late Night: Among the Republicans’ Chief Weaponry is Lying, Hypocrisy, and a Fanatical Devotion to Torture





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ZeD☼
water tiger!
zeh!
Hi Watertiger!
Rudy – class act all the way.
punaise @ 2
love it!
OK, Lolo, I am going to keep a zed at my fingertips to compete with you and stop typing out the author’s name first.
lolo @ 6
artistic license (plate)
dez.
for the dyslexics in the crowd.
pantaloons!
punaise @ 10
Heh. I should have just linked that site and saved some time.
Jane, Christy or anyone.. Where can I find the list of the complete names of the Freshman who voted nay on H.R, 2237. Is the Wilson on the list Charlie Wilson from Ohio? I went to his website and could not find how he had voted.
This is the guy who took our dear Congressman Strickland spot when Strickland ran and won Ohio Governor. Wilson ran on the basis that he would follow in Stricklands foot steps. Does not appear to be so?
punaise @ 8
I know. I laugh every time I think of you opening up that license plate and finding Zeh. Punaise it’s amazing.
watertiger @ 11
edited my comment to include link.
Kathleen @ 12
try here.
watertiger writes
I think he did very similarly during the senate run in Y2K when he quit after it became apparent Hillary was going to stomp hi a**. He seems to start off hot and then flames out quick.
And, oh yeah: Abner Louima, Amadou DIallo, and Patrick Dorismond. We have to keep those names and “Giuliani Time” before everyone’s eyes.
The Giuliani perspective on choice. ‘Personally I hate it. But, hey… it’s cool.’
dakine01 @ 16
I think he did very similarly during the senate run in Y2K when he quit after it became apparent Hillary was going to stomp hi a**. He seems to start off hot and then flames out quick.
And, oh yeah: Abner Louima, Amadou DIallo, and Patrick Dorismond. We have to keep those names and “Giuliani Time” before everyone’s eyes.
exactly what I was thinking, dakine. He’s a sprinter in a marathon. Can’t sustain the pace.
OT though the name’s not
Via Froomkin:
So do you think Bush’s Plan B is call Daddy or call Mommy or is it just to soil himself?
I have never heard anything good about Guliani. Has he done anything good?
folks, mrs. VS is ONLINE at TPM. she is not amused. see my email below quoting her two (so far) comments. note the tone, folks. i think this may end up being rudy’s maccaca moment (TM).
Folks, we may have our Maccaca Moment here for Rudy G!
Ms. VonSprecken is ONLINE and COMMENTING on the lede story at TPM. She is not amused. And she has recorded phone calls, saved emails, the works. I smell a meltdown here.
Hello,
I am the snubbed Iowa farm-wife where this whole mess began. To my neighbor, I am truly sorry that you feel that way. I would be happy to continue the conversation in person, as I have some serious choices ahead of me. Please give me a call.
To the “red-flag” guy, don’t lose any sleep over me. I do suffer extreme pain, but did explain to Greg that I also suffer from Minier’s disease which affects my ability to balance.
The constant calls from the Rudy managers drained me of energy. As far as fixing up, we made hours of phone calls, I drove the back roads to the neighbors and we were picking up broken limbs in a pasture for parking. I did “NOT” get around to painting the front of the barn yet….We cancelled the port-a-potties and contacted the Sheriff to cancel traffic control.
As for the Rudy campaigne, they were aware that we are far from “Well-off or Rich” and that I have great difficulty getting around.
I am grateful my Mom, sister and niece flew up, as I was needing emotional support and a hug.
I will get past this, I don’t know about Rudy.
Thanks for listening,
Debi VonSprecken
Posted by: Deborah
Date: May 10, 2007 08:35 PM
As far as your comment about being approved and cleared by security, I still have the telephone recording and the emails. Unfortunately, it was approved. Approved on Monday, cancelled on Tuesday when the asset check was completed.
Posted by: Deborah VonSprecken
Date: May 10, 2007 08:51 PM
–
watertiger @ 18 says:
I don’t recall how he actually got elected mayor as I was in upstate (Rome) at the time and not really paying attention to the city but seem to recall that it was a lot closer at the end than it was expected to be.
“Forthright” = stubborn
“Not an equivocator” = uniter, not a divider
“Strong leader” = cartoon urban cowboy
“Good judge of character” = Bernie Kerik’s mentor
“9/11″ = 9/11
“Ethnic” = mobbed up
Can we please have Rudolph as the GOP nominee?
Please?
dakine01 @ 22
I don’t recall how he actually got elected mayor as I was in upstate (Rome) at the time and not really paying attention to the city but seem to recall that it was a lot closer at the end than it was expected to be.
Slimmest margin in NYC history, IIRC. And to answer Snarkassandra, for the first two years he was in office, there was a marked improvement in “street quality”, which in reality was not attributable to anything Giuliani did, per se (it was Dinkins who actually initiated the “Broken Windows” policing), but he got the benefits.
SK, he made a lot of friends early in is career as a NY prosecutor by going after the NY mafia, and got some credit for “cleaning up” NY after he became mayor, but made a lot of enemies by using Draconian methods to do it. He was finished in 2000, dropped out of the Senate race after having cancer and cheating on his wife, but got a new lease on life by “being strong”(?)on 9/11. Good thumbnail?
watertiger @ 18
he’s a splinter in the ass of the body politic.
SnarKassandra @ 20
Some would say driving pr0n out of Times Square so Disney could move in was good, but it wound up just letting it go wherever in the city they could find space. For everything he is supposed tto have done that was good, there was a negative effect as well. Google the three names in my comment @ 16 and you’ll see why some of us dislike the man intensely.
pantaloon punaise.
dakine01 @ 27
Actually, Ed Koch was the catalyst for that particular change, but Giuliani took sadistic pleasure in driving the small businesses out of the area.
SnarKassandra @ 20
He started spending a lot of time outside of New York State.
OK. Weird question. Why is PRON so bad? I mean what does it hurt? I don’t want naked pictures of me in a magazine, but some people do.
My brother used to have a bunch of magazines in the back of his closet and they were gross, but so what?
Is this one of the things that repubs hate because it isn’t “christian”?
I put nothing on the younger generation but I like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6pphVs8bF0
Hugh @ 19
It appears that running out the clock is Rove’s strategy. The longer it takes to get a bill passed the farther into the future goes the war and the potential for any withdrawal shall be put on the next president.
The Media is helping Bushco and hurting Democrats. The message should be that the Democrats are providing the funding and warmongering Bush refuses to sign the bill (because he is insane).
Of course, the 59 DINOS that voted with Republicans are also a big problem. Only 2 Rethugs defected.
As far as any war plan, there is no plan as usual, just more of the same – war profiteering and death for profit.
I bet THAT is why TRex likes to be called a therapod and not a dinosaur. So you don’t confuse him with one of THOSE.
gah you all read too fast :)
Hugh says
May 10th, 2007 at 6:14 pm
So do you think Bush’s Plan B is call Daddy or call Mommy or is it just to soil himself?
I think Plan B is to hold his breath and stomp his feet until the generals figure out a way to make Plan A work.
That pic is like watch the shinny object
Listening to the rest of the hearing. Congresswoman Lee ripped. Why not stop her until the mike was fixed. What the hell was that about?
SnarKassandra @ 34
Cassie you are way tooo smart. I hope you’re contagious to your friends. BTW: it’s ‘therOpod’.
AP – The Democratic-controlled House voted Thursday night to pay for military operations in Iraq on an installment plan, defying President Bush’s threat of a second straight veto in a fierce test of wills over the unpopular war.
Zig?
Kathleen @ 38
i had much lag :(
Patrick 4/4 @ 42
lmao, thats prize :)
SnarKassandra @ 31
To answer your last question first, pretty much.
To your first question: Many on both the right and left consider it to be demeaning to women. However, some women feel it empowers them to appear in it so it’s not an easy issue. It’s a battle that has been fought since the dawn of time and there is no right answer IMO.
Patrick 4/4 @ 42
“we will fight the terrace-ists over there so we don’t have to fight them over here”
tw3k @ 44
yeah, well it sure put him in the doghouse in Late Nite last night…
I don’t think he cares if any plan works. He’s already got what he wants. He gets to wear costumes and be called Mr. President and have dinner with all kinds of queens. And when it’s over, he’ll be cutting brush in Paraguay, drinking beers, and for the rest of his life, having pulled out the plum, say “oh, what a good boy am I.”
punaise @ 47
:(
Idjit — no wonder Giuliani assumed they were loaded, he just loves him da smell of Des Monies!
jayt @ 36
His plan B might just be to quit his job. He doesn’t have a lot of stick-to -it-iveness in his background.
Rep Cannon said “urinate on the President’s leg”
I second that! Can we take a vote?
LindaR @ 48
“Mah plan wuz workin’.”
(just pic)
Phase II at last
http://www.antiwar.com/blog/20…..o-at-last/
tw3k @ 49
I think all is forgiven by the moderators by now …
Didn’t Arnold VINICK pull this on The West Wing?
watertiger @ 53
LindaR @ 48
yay, i needed that :D
There’s a great Giuliani piece up on HuffPost.
Vintage — the rules apply to others, not to him. Where have we heard that before?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..48120.html
And as a longtime NYC resident, no…..he didn’t/hasn’t done anything good.
Kathleen @ 52
“P*ssin’ in the wind, P*ssin’ on all of my friends…”
punaise @ 55
Thanks, i know. won’t happen again.
Giuliani’s flip-flopping makes John Kerry look like a paragon of consistency…
I may have broken the margins, but please note I split no infinitives…
SnarKassandra @ 31
It seems to be a holdover from the Puritans. Many other cultures seem to be able to treat sex as if, oh, well as if it were a normal part of life, and that books and magazines about sex and naked folks *can* be as plesant and unapologetic as books about cooking or woodworking.
Things that are repressed don’t go away, but they often go crooked. That’s a lot of what is wrong with authoritarians, I think.
watertiger @ 29
He took
credit fordown the five mafia family heads. Nah, I really have to give him that one.Good article about the oil in Iraq.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/050707D.shtml#
Rep Watt from North Carolina dug deep!
If I were an employee of Mr. Bush, and in trouble, and the prez came out publicly in support of me keeping my job, that’s the time I’d be typing a new resume.
tw3k @ 60
I’m grateful of all the important topic you have addressed since.
Kathleen @ 52
Can we take a leak?
Patrick 4/4 @ 62
New Theme! Design should not be broken by content!
OT: This is important, somebody download this now, it is “Barack the Magic Negro” that was played on Rush Limbaugh before it goes away, it is being wiped off the net by Premier – this is outrageous:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4cH2gopa5I
Rudy the G has ‘connections’.
It’s also what’s wrong with porn.
Loo Hoo says
May 10th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
His plan B might just be to quit his job.
Nah, ya can’t quit your job when you’re on a mission from God.
Didn’t you learn anything from “The Blues Brothers”?
j/k
LS @ 69
Is this Rush’s “Imus moment”?
watertiger @ 53 — tee hee.
If anybody thinks that Rudy Giuliani doesn’t have organized crime connections, think Bernie Kerik, etc.
Kathleen @ 73
As bad or worse.
Does not quite sound like Rush.
Kathleen @ 65
makes me angery as hell cause we _WE_ have sooo much intelect to make the point mute.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 75
Hell, his father was mobbed up.
AkaDad @ 61
He’s Oklahoma kiddo @ 76
Let’s not forget his dad.
But I repeat myself.
Kathleen @ 77
It was played on Limbaugh. It is not Limbaugh singing, it was put together by Paul Shanklin who has been working with Limbaugh since 1993. I don’t know who’s actually singing.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 40
i just skimmed through the bill (h.r.2206) and posted my summary in epu-land a couple of threads back.
Kathleen @ 73
I will send the link to KO. If anyone makes a copy they should consider sending it his way as well, imo.
The Democrats should be pounding Rudy along the lines of what the GOP did to Geraldine Ferraro.
watertiger @ 81
bagman for the mob? Bag-Dad, in the green zone.
Kathleen @ 74
i hope so
Oklahoma kiddo @ 84
Why bother? Let his own party do it. Think popcorn ; )
Oklahoma kiddo @ 84
Which is what they were planning to do to Mario as well, if he’d ever gotten off his Hamlet schtick.
Cozumel @ 87
Do the dems realize exactly how serious this is?
dakine, you’re from Rome? I’m 20 miles away. You notice that Mike Arcuri voted against the war today?
Rep Waters was on fire! Whew! She was lightening and thunder all rolled into one!
“Have you reviewed the files” “Did you meet with the President about these politically motivated firings?’
Can you imagine. Rudy Giuliani was a U.S. Attorney. I thought these things only happened in the movies.
LS @ 81
Oy Vey! Is Rush going to get into trouble?
TexBetsy (formerly Texas Betsy) @ 90
I think they’re hoping Rudy does their work for them.
Kathleen @ 91
That’s good!
Where did you get that Rudy’s father was in the Mafia? I’d like to read that. Please tell me, though, that you’re not just assuming that because he’s Italian.
Was this mentioned? C-SPAN 2 is replaying the hearing right now.
solai @ 90
solai,
I lived in Rome from 5/89-1/95. Since then I’ve lived in Wallingford, CT, Montgomery, AL, Albany, NY, Manchester, CT, Springfield, IL, Albany, NY, Denver, CO, Apollo Beach, Fl and now San Antonio, TX.
I’m not all that surprised about Arcuri though. For all it’s upstate conservativeness, that district wasn’t all that conservative. Boehlert was not real conservative. And even though Meier purported to be conservative, I think it was more in name than actions. And Rome did elect Roann to the state house of reps.
Gnome de Plume @ 7
I saw on another thread that you had a family member with fainting and heart fibrillation. How is everyone? OK I hope.
solai @ 97
It’s in wikipedia, solai. His father was an ex-con wiseguy.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 92
Bill Weld was his chief deputy IIRC.
Kathleen @ 93
If we shine the big light on it, justice will take care of it. Kharma is a BIATCH!!!!
Hugh @ 19
EPU’d from last thread:
laurie9 @ 157
(Removing tinfoil hat but keeping it handy)
I am against judging any candidate based on their parents’ lives.
selise @ 83
ingenuity
ingenuity
ingenuity
WTF we _WE_ are smarter than this sh?t.
Hydorcarbon?
Bucky my balls but WTF this is misspent!!!!111
THEY ARE TRYING TO BURY THE RUSH STORY. DON’T LET IT HAPPEN FOLKS!
Still wondering if FDL will be brave enough to open up a discussion on the upcoming A*P*C trial that is coming up. Why cover the Libby trial but not this trial?
http://www.amconmag.com/2007/2…..ticle.html
TexBetsy (formerly Texas Betsy) @ 105
The reason I raised it in my first post was that it colored Giuliani’s worldview. I think it’s relevant if it affects the way he makes decisions.
Let Rudy be judged on his record. Right Bernie.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 109
I’m sure that Abner, Amadou, and Patrick would have something to say about Rudy. But only Abner can still make the statement.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 109
I lived in NYC for Rudy’s entire fascist regime. (Plus some extra before and after.)
His record sux!
I agree with TexBetsy #105. I know if you judged ME by my parents, you’d be on another planet.
This is what got Lush Limpdick pissed: CBS13 polls Barack…TMN!
Kathleen @ 107
I’m not sure bravery is the issue. Jane had been following the Fitz trial, long before it was the Fitz trial. aka Plame outing. Notebooks, timelines, every bit of published evidence.
May not want to do same for trial where there is not the same bank of stored knowledge, stored by Jane and co. Stuff they can pull up at their fingertips. Know it inside and out.
Not saying that it’s not important, but expert knowledge is the trumper. FDL can’t be all things to all people.
OT, but Kathleen, if you could throw out one reference on the A*P*C trial for those of us who are NOT up to speed, what would it be?
Edited * and released by Mod
Franklin, Rosen, Weismann timeline
http://www.newsfollowup.com/ti…..st_Entries
Seems like the only base they have left to appeal to are the racists (of which unfortunately there are still some in this country – thank goodness they are in the minority!!). In fact, someone blogged that somewhere yesterday.
dakine01 @ 110
Keep it out there. I still am sick at what that poor man endured. Predecessor to Abu Gharib.
I don’t know anything about Rudy’s relatives. But I do know about Rudy and Bernie.
LS @ 117 says:
I’m trying. Every time I see someone talking about him, I try to bring those names into the picture and shed the light.
Actually I hope the Republicans nominate Rudy. As a Dem, I am licking my chops at the prospect.
Valley Girl @ 114
I am not asking FDL “to be all things to all people”. I am asking if they will be brave enough to set up a platform to discuss this critical trial. We know that no one in the MSM will be brave enough to cover this upcoming trial in a fair and balanced way. Will FDL?
Valley Girl: YGM
FDl is willing to tackle many different topics. Why not this one?
I lived in NY in the 90’s and Rudy was somewhat popular among my white friends and completely hated by my black & Hispanic friends.
Valley Girl I will guarantee you that “bravery” is indeed the issue!
When is that trial? What is needed in the way of a place for discussion?
I want a Palestinian homeland. Anything less will not do.
Here is Rush’s intro to the vicious Obama rhetoric:
http://www.bsalert.com/media/b….._negro.mp3
dakine01 @ 120
I’m trying. Every time I see someone talking about him, I try to bring those names into the picture and shed the light.
that image has stuck with me. might i say indelibly.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 127
They were offered one in 1948 and again at Oslo. Problem was that they didn’t want to share the land. They wanted all of it with no Israel.
spurious @ 104
also epu’d:
kirk murphy @ 206
HotFlash @ 189
Should Americans ever need to defend against unconstitutional overthrow of lawful domestic power by foreign mercenaries, they would find the techniques in Ecodefense most valuable.
As I believe no enemy of our democracy would ever (again) be so foolish as to usurp Federal power through unconstitutional means, I offer the reference for anyone considering writing speculative fiction about Americans’ capacity to resist and disrupt occupying military forces on American soil.
An unimaginable situation, to be sure.
For those considering speculaive fiction, the link above takes you to the full text of Ecodefense.
Let’s let Mr. Giuliani’s record as a law enforcement officer in NY speak for itself. And lets look at Mr. Giuliani’s support of Mr. Kerik, and Kerik’s business associates, and Bernie’s relationship with Rudy too.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 120
Me, too. I don’t think he has a chance. But…if we’re wrong, or if they steal the election, we’d have to leave the country.
LS @ 129
I lost bush I when he started to pronouce saddam as sodom
TexBetsy (formerly Texas Betsy) @ 131
Perhaps the Palestinians didn’t want to be run off their land in 1948. I don’t want to get started on this tonight, but if you insist, I will tomorrow. Remind me.
spurious @ 103
as a starter of a previous tinfoil thread, i would like to now take a contrarian position after some fresh info came into view. Simply put, Bu$hco did ALL of this for the oil. Check out this post at DKOS and you’ll see how its going down. Add in this element and this one and suddenly all becomes clear. Iran is no longer relevant, although it remains a backup. what is likely to happen is much neater. Turkey takes down the Kurds, destroys their militias, and the Iraqi army moves in and “secures” the oil fields there near Kirkuk. Meanwhile, sunnis are ethnically cleansed and driven out of baghdad and other areas, leaving a clear shia majority. they agree to permit BC massive profits from iraqi oil in return for being propped up. Bush “withdraws” to kuwait and SA and all is well. If he’s in a peeved mood he bombs Iran just to mess up their oil export ability and make the iraqi oil more valuable.
Then as he leaves office, he pardons himself, cheney, and a few other key players (condi) and rides off smiling into the sunset.
Q. E. D.
Luis Posada Carriles is free as a bird. http://www.newshounds.us He had excellent connections.
Ever hear of UN Security Council Resolution 242? Gawd. I’m sucking myself into this.
Warren Buffet on Stock Market show Monday said he liked Hillary or Obama and donated the maximum to each. He said that either of them would make a great president. The looks on the talking heads’ faces were priceless.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 85
I seduced, er, WOOED my lovely bride of 23 years this June in a restaurant bar by way of GUSHING about Geraldine Ferraro (I was working part time for NPR Affiliate KCSM-FM, San Mateo) because I was ALL over the news of the day. Man, them was heady days, hoping for a Woman VP . . . . she would have been a dandy, too. Alas, Fritzed by Rayguns.
Wexler is questioning Gonzales on C-SPAN 2 now.
TexBetsy (formerly Texas Betsy) @ 132
Texas Betsy, I so want to believe this is a first venture in speculative fiction.
Factual, it is not.
hackworth @ 140
Go, Warren!
hackworth @ 138
Delahunt of MA was all over Abu on Carriles today. Asked him since Abu had called Carriles a terrorist and the Patriot Act gives ability to put non-citizen/suspected terrorists away without trial, Why is Cariles walking around free. Abu, as usual played Sgt Schultz.
kirk murphy @ 131
Just because conspiracy theories sound silly doesn’t mean that conspiracies never occur. While I grant that such a scenario seems outlandish, I wouldn’t have guessed six years ago that I’d have spent the day listening to an absolutely lawless AG try to protect a delusional president from reality.
Murray Waas is getting documents from a Senior Administration Official. Yet another Nixon parallel, the Deep Throat of the new century.
IRT our tinfoil hahackworth @ 139
sigh…not John Edwards?
dakine01 @ 145
I had to turn off the hearings. I just couldn’t listen to Gonzales’ prevaricating. Infuriating bastard.
IRT conspiracy theories. I know that I sound extreme. But everyone here knows that they DID cheat in 2 elections. And they tried their damnedest last year also.
She left. But she will come home in an hour.
Alfred Kelgarries @ 136
Lordy. Interesting. Will read all the links after dinner.
Anyone heard from Gnome???
masaccio @ 147
Greetings masaccio. I think that was the most significant part of the Waas piece. We knew most of it already from piecing together the inferences from the document dumps; but the fact that two “Senior Administration Officials” are coming forward to “Deep Throat” the malfactors is VERY encouraging. Sounds like the two may be sitting on several goodies too.
hey guys-
just catching up on threads.
need a definition-
on Howie’s post on his site about dems who voted no on McGovern bill, linked from Jane’s post called No Withdrawal, he listed after their names-reactionary and or electoral whore
what do those mean? in accordance of type of dem/vote they are?
kinda know what reactionary may mean in this tense, but electoral whore? no clue.
tried to post comment at his site to ask, but won’t let me submit it, submit button is a dead zone. must be my browser.
soooooooo, if anyone knows………
RonD @ 112
My parents were great, but, man, I don’t subscribe to alot of what they were about. Too many social issues between us, and the Puritan factor on which they based their lives. Worked well for them. For me and some of my siblings…not so much. Love ‘em and miss ‘em every day tho.
Kathleen @ 108
Raimondo is one of my favorite’s out here.
Say what will the critics, he’s got a link and attribution for every point he sticks into the reader. NOTHING is vague, and when it’s vague for him, his ‘bullshit’ detector is formidible.
Taking down the A*P*C putz’s, integrating THEM all into PlameGate, The Iraq War, the loading up of Fundie’s in DOJ, GAO, and thruout the government will paint a portrait of PNAC and the neocons back to Newt In ‘84.
It will also blow up the sickness behind the Fundie’s Push for Int. Des, the elimination of seperation of church and state they strive for, and THEIR general quest to remake the world in their image.
And, at some point, the ‘hidden agenda’ of a South that will Rise Again (Blackwater’s CEO? HMMMMMM?) thru Christian Fundamentalism will be exposed for the snake it really is.
A snake that wants to, and has, curtailed and subjugated civil rights, women’s rights, people of color and all things not Confederate.
Yep, the A*P*C Trials are gonna be quite bewitching . . . . I sure hope FDL jumps in with all feets first!
Thanks to the VRWC, the Mil Ind Complex and its media arm (an arm that encompasses 95 percent of teevee newspapers and radio) and a clueless American public b/c of it, Posada Carriles and his horrible acts are virtually unknown.
watertiger @ 149
dakine01 @ 145
hackworth @ 138
Luis Posada Carriles is free as a bird. http://www.newshounds.us He had excellent connections.
Delahunt of MA was all over Abu on Carriles today. Asked him since Abu had called Carriles a terrorist and the Patriot Act gives ability to put non-citizen/suspected terrorists away without trial, Why is Cariles walking around free. Abu, as usual played Sgt Schultz.
I had to turn off the hearings. I just couldn’t listen to Gonzales’ prevaricating. Infuriating bastard.
I was in and out. usually I tried to pay some attention when it was a Dem up as about a half dozen or so really made him sweat. Unfortunately, most of the redubyacans were just tossing softballs from the apporved talking points:
Where’s indictment of Jefferson
Boy, there’s a whole lot of people working for DoJ aren’t there
Save the kids
Intellectual property rights
Serving the preznit
a dna couple of others.
The Dems were a little more disjointed but some of them were laying in. Unfortuantely, five minutes per just wasn’t long enough to get some meat as Abu kept squiriming out of the clutches by going off on tangents and such. He does have the art of obfuscation nailed down.
Zig freed by Mod
solai @ 150
With all we know about the DOJ they clearly cheated in the last election. (I would wager in ‘02 as well via machines, DOJ and or something else) So, 3 out of 4 elections have been..aw heck, illegally handled.
I suspect Rudy’s people have to tell him which way is east every morning. And possibly also which way is up. He keeps trying to face all directions at the same time, and it’s obviously hampering his thought processes (suce as they may be).
[/snark]
Evening. What’s been happening?
hackworth @ 158
And, Duvalier (Papa and Baby). Same ilk. They walk among us.
Balrog @ 162
S2D2, wha’s up wit chu?
Balrog @ 162
Whazzz up Balrog? Talking about conspiracy theorists, Palestine/Israel land fight, Guliani’s parental influence and other light and fun topics.
spurious, I never thought that you are silly or under a mistaken belief in conspiracy theories. I very much apologize for anything I’ve written suggesting otherwise.
and solai, I apologize if I have seemed to pass any judgement on your views. None was intended (or felt!)
spurious @ 147
solai @ 151
solai @ 149
Anytime you find yourself wondering about ‘conspiracy theories’, say to yourself “Permanent Republican Majority”! Then think again.
New post about the US marines that killed civilians in Haditha.
LATE NIGHT
Solai #150, I feel the same way. But if anyone had said 6 years ago that the Admin would be able to claim unlimited surveillance, detention, and so on, we all would have thought they were nuts.
New Thread lolo got the ZeD☼
watertiger @ 144
Given Warren’s 18% stake in WaPo and apparent happiness with the
Donald Graham/Len Downie/Fred Hiatt mafia running the place,
maybe you should curb your enthusiasm.
I wasn’t offended. Sometimes I scare myself.
TexBetsy (formerly Texas Betsy) @ 130
Bullshit Tex Betsy. Who controlled Water rights was a very serious and unresolved issue during Oslo and the “right of return”. Israel agreed to dismantle the illegal settlements and not to expand. They not only did not begin to dismantle they went right ahead and expanded settlements. The MSM spins any failing of Israeli Palestinian agreements on the Palestinians.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Accords
This is a great website “If Americans only knew”
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
OT Sorry,
Balrog, any baby news?
kirk murphy @ 165
No problem, Kirk. No offense taken.
Dude, he’s not LEAVING office.
And, your scenerio does not factor in domestic issues, martial law, yadda yadda . . . why do you THINK Blackwater is building a HUGE facility in the deserts outside of San Diego?
The Detention Pens?
They ain’t for Mexican’s, or roving farm workers.
TexBetsy (formerly Texas Betsy) @ 126
The trial is June 5 . This upcoming trial should be discussed like any other topic that comes up here at FDL. here
Modification by Mod
kirk murphy @ 132
Sorry about choppin up yer post, but, my point would be to FIRMLY state, it ain’t no outside merc’s we need to worry about, it’s the admin du jour and their henchlings . . . From NeoCon, to Fundie, to Big Brother, Wall Street, to MIC, etc.
We ARE the enemy, Pogo. We are our OWN worst enemy. And the republic is at stake, and we are only a few baby steps from Permanent Executive Control.
The Dem’s are getting played, for they will be reduced to a role of being The Show Pony’s to let the masses know, it’s still a two party democracy (not).
larue @ 177
*black helicopters*
yawn
Trial
http://www.newsfollowup.com/aipac.htm
Whole lotta blog whoring going on here, nite all.
Cozumel @ 182
nite
Cozumel @ 183
and i am doing half of it
Kathleen @ 183
Tough topic Hmmmm
LS @ 106
It’s bubbled up to the MSM because the CBS Affiliate in Sacto Channel 13 (ironically the former Sinclair station that consistently attacked Kerry) asked their- OH MY GOD! – their viewers what THEY thought!
And Rush went ICBM ballistic when the survey results were stating that many people DID feel it was “racist”.
So Rush had to send his hordes of flying monkeys out to flood the poll and the CBS website! He announced both on his show…and told them…ATTACK!!!
http://mediamatters.org/items/…..?f=h_topic
http://cbs13.com/topstories/lo…..91135.html
Kathleen @ 122
Well it took a phenomenal yearlong effort for FDL to be allowed access to the Libby trial. ASFAIK it was the first trial that was actually allowed to be actively blogged LIVE in real time.
The judge in this case may not be very willing to do so. The US Atty may not be willing to place documents on a website so that they can be examined…in addition, there are likely to be even more classified documents in this case than in the Libby trial. Plus the FDL team had to rent the “Plame House” for the duration of the trial and fundraise to afford it. That took a lot of planning and committments of time and energy.
There is no reason that those at American Conservative or other bloggers who are already “experts” on the issue couldn’t have done this much better than FDL, whose expertise lies elsewhere.
So why aren’t they doing it?
hackworth @ 138
Apparently the prosecutors in Florida muffed the case…perhaps intentionally. It seems pretty easy as he was a) a confessed terrorist, b) a fugitive from justice, and c) an illegal immigrant.
But then again he has a bunch of right-wing Cuban exile politicians (Ros-Lehtinen) and their lapdogs (Gov. Jeb Bush)…pulling strings,
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