Attorney General Alberto Gonzales is testifying today before the House Judiciary Committee. The committee website is streaming video and C-Span3 is broadcasting it as well. During liveblogging, please stay on topic in the comments, and please try to hold yourself back from extraneous comments where possible to be kind to our servers. Thanks!
REP. NADLER QUESTIONS: Discussion of Goodling potentially using a political litmus test for hiring career employees, how that is a violation of the Hatch Act — and Gonzales agrees that this is a very serious matter. If most people do not believe that you are not telling the trugh about all of this, how can they trust how the DoJ is performing its duties? AG says he doesn't believe that people mistrust him on this. If it is true, as you testified that you didn't have much involvement in this process in a hands on manner, how can we beleive that you really know what is going on in the DoJ? Gonzales says that he thinks he was justified in relying on underlings to do this job, but in hindsight he might rely on underlings in a different way. Nadler now gets into the National Security Letter issue — AG says that NSL's are indespensible. Nadler says that isn't the point — if they are properly used, they can be useful, but why are you using them improperly? Why is there no process for destroying information wrongly collected on innocent Americans? AG says that they failed to use the NSLs in a responsible manner and that they are taking steps to ensure that this doesn't happen again.
REP. COBLE QUESTIONS: Talking about intellectual property laws, using stolen IP as a means to fund nefarious enterprises, and how we can prevent counterfeiting and IP crimes here and around the world. The AG is now taking about the different kinds of counterfeiting: drugs, music, movies, etc., etc. These are very complicated cases. (CHS notes: operation change the subject and show how the AG's busy job makes him lie is up and running. Gee, worked so well for Libby…) Coble says that he really appreciates the AG talking about this. Have you implemented any process that is new in how you deal with dismissal of USAs since all of this has come to light? AG says he would use a more formal process. USAs want to be told if there are issues with their performance, and to give them an opportunity to address those issues before being fired. (CHS notes: well…duh!) But we all serve at the pleasure of the President, AG says, so no formal process. But he'll try to actually talk with the USAs instead of just kicking them out on their ass with no notice as to why.
10:35 am ET
REP. BOBBY SCOTT: Starts with need to enforce laws on domestic prostitution, and employment discrimination in Head Start based on religion. AG says that the Administration speaks with one voice, so he'll have to check with someone else as to what he should say about this (CHS notes: because, you know, legal requirements be damned, there are political ramifications with evangelical voters to consider here). Did the WH ask you to seek the removal of any USAtty. AG says that he has a recollection that Mr. Rove raised concerns about voter fraud prosecutions in three districts. Has been told that the President talked to him about one as well. Conceivable that in meetings with people at the WH that someone might have mentioned something, but he doesn't recall anything specifically. Rep. Scott says that over the last 25 years, only 10 USAs were riffed (other than at the beginning of an Administration with the normal political turnover) and that all of those forlks were removed for scandal or for cause. AG not sure what he is talking about with the CRS investigation on this. (CHS notes: Anyone have a link on this CRS study of the issue?) Do you recall any USAttys who were contacted about political pressure/voter fraud questions who were then not fired? AG says he'd have to go back and look at that. Scott talks about Yang having been on the list by Miers, AG doesn't recall her being on a list for Ms. Miers, says that Yang had financial problems that went into this question.
REP. GALLEGLY QUESTIONS: We're now talking about making the nation as safe as possible as relating to a potential terrorist attack. Talking about the Ft. Dix arrestees with two of them having been "illegal aliens" who had been repeatedly stopped for traffic violations but were still here. Discusses eerie similarity to Mohammad Atta. AG says some jurisdictions are better about this than others, and it being a question of resources in some jurisdictions not being available. Says he isn't in the habit of reading the WaPo, but this was an article that said bad things about immigrants so he read this particular "illegal alien absconder" article. What are you doing about this scary scourge of illegal immigrants who have flouted deportation orders? AG again goes back to resources and lack of space in prisons for holding these people. This is why the President is supporting comprehensive immigration legislation that is workable. Gallegly doesn't seem cheered by that response. Now asks about illegal aliens as drug smugglers and traffickers. AG says they are working on it in terms of finding more prison bed space. Gallegly says that the laws aren't the problem that the willingness to enforce the laws is the problem here.
REP. LOFGREN QUESTIONS: Begins talking about FBI name checks — have pending 300,000 plus names, with 155,000 of those name checks pending for more that 6 months. You need to look into this. Then gets into the question of getting rid of Graves as being related to particular prosecution on a voter fraud case. Didn't Mr. Schlotzman pursue a case close to an election in contravention of the DoJ's own internal regs on not bringing these cases close to an election so as not to skew the outcome. Gonzales says the civil rights division chief stands by the case, and Lofgren points out that Schlozman works at the civil rights division currently and has been accused by career people of politicizing that section. Asks for response in writing to that.
REP. LUNGREN QUESTIONS:Lungren walking through the "ooooh, you have a big job that requires you to monitor a lot of employees" line of defense, and goes on to say that it's a horrible thing when one's employees let you down in not doing their job as well as they might have. (CHS notes: Anyone else wondering if the discredit Sampson tactic may be because they fear something that Sampson knows but may not have yet shared?) Should voter fraud be investigated for dead people still on the rolls? AG says that it is the law and that they have an obligation to investigate true voter fraud cases. (CHS notes: Yes, they do. Ann Coulter, anyone?) And now we are walking through the "pleasure of the President" discussion again. Says no one at the WH directly asked him to fire anyone because of a politically sensitive investigation that was ongoing.
Recess for votes onthe floor of the House. Will resume immediately after voting has concluded.
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ZeD☼
Dick Cheney Controls Tim Russert
zed?
Excellent question
You didn’t know why 8 USAs were fired, so how can we believe that you know shit about what’s going on in the Department?
Only he didn’t say “shit.”
I’m missing something here. The SJC felt it necessary to put AGAG under oath – why not the HJC?
ReElect President Al Gore in 2008. Accept no substitutes.
emptywheel @ 4
Oh yes he did – at least in your mind and my mind ;)
Sorry to say it, but these House committee members are nowhere near as good as the Senators were in questioning the lying, pseudo-amnesiac weasel.
Please someone, on follow-up. Ask this question:
Can I just take a moment to say (stands up) JERRY NADLER IS MY CONGRESSMAN AND I COULDN’T BE PROUDER OF HIM!!!!!!
IMHO, he has always shown himself to be easily the most prepared member of this committee.
So there.
As I said the last time he testified (use that term loosely), he’s either lying or has been negligent in his role as AG (or both, now that I think about it!) Either way, he’s squeezed, or should be. Get some balls people. Take him out!
Coble (R – NC)- different line of questioning if time permits I’ll come back to this silly USA stuff. Computers??????????? Intellectual property????????
Coble: intellectual property crimes. blah blah.
Coble convoluted.
Good Grief these OT questions are pathetic.
Jesus – can the Repub’s get any farther away from the issue in front of this committee?
goddammit, Rep Conyers – take control of this effing hearing!!
Helen @ 12
Time does not permit a**hole!
Did the Republicans not get the memo on what the hearing was about?
Why are these idiot Congressmen allowed to ask questions that have nothing to do what they are investigating??? Talk about obstructing justice — P*sses me off!
OT, but it’s the first time I’ve been on-thread with Marcy for a couple weeks. (Sorry!)
Marcy, if you get stuck on PDF viewing again, try here
http://view.samurajdata.se/
They’ll convert PDFs to images, and since it’s online it works on all platforms/situations.
Back to the hearings, sorry again for OT.
This guy wouldn’t make a good private, let alone a general…even the name is besmirched with him wearing it
Good point. Gonzales asserts he doesn’t know except when he does.
Re NSLs: An inspector general report at the DOJ estimated that 143,000 NSLs had been issued between 2003 and 2005. An exact number was not possible because recordkeeping was so bad that an unknown number were never properly recorded.
The promise was made at the time that NSL legislation was enacted that it would not be abused. Now Abu is saying that they are shocked, shocked I tell you that they were.
So is it the Senator Kyl type of questioning making appointments and golf dates found in the Senate Hearings?
Need to do a OT rule…. OMG…
WTF does Gonzo know about intellectual property?
It’s clear that the Repubs are terrified of this hearing and are doing everything they can to keep Gonzo off topic.
lolo @ 15
Yeah – I’m gonna rest my fingers thru this. Just follow along; they are saying: BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT.
I’ll be back when they get serious.
My husband is an intellectual property professor; he got all excited. Everyone has problems in their marriage…
Oh this is pure bullshit.
Get back on the damn topic!
emptywheel @ 9
I’m with you. And Abu keeps saying the standard is impropriety and no one seems interested his in gross incompetence.
It sure seems that the Goopers have caucused and decided that they are going to throw every impediment that they have to sabotage this hearing. If Conyers doesn’t weild his gavel and take control soon, this hearing is going to degenerate fast.
dratty @ 10
He did actually do a good job after all. Ok, I’ll vote for him again :-)
He knows he doesn’t possess any intellectual property
Question….. for once did all the Repugs show up for the hearing?
If so…. Did all the Dems? Need a packed house because it seems to be all Repugs OT obstruction
isnt there a way to let the dems. ask the questions and forget the repugs. who change the subject and waste valuble time. damn.
Quzi @ 18
YOu are so right. What the hell. HJC should get a handle on this quick.
Abu: the USA’s don’t want a formal review process. I spoke to them.
Coble: Now let’s get back to the USA situation. (Lovely.)
dratty @ 30
Well known tactic when you’re in the minority.
down that shot he said
We all serve at the pleasure of the president!
Coble: What have you done to address the problem.
Abu: I have thought about it. But no formal process, in fact nothing.
Jane Hamsher @ 18
They got their own memo:
1. Waste time
2. Obfuscate
3. accuse democrats of whatever you can dream up.
I’ve been waiting for ‘the pleasure of the President’ to pop out. There it is.
They need to question him about statements to US Attys that they “work for the White House”….
Jane Hamsher @ 18
They sure did. That’s why they prepared the time wasting questions
FirePups can join in with other FDL chatters to save the servers at:
gabbly link
See you there for your one-liners!
These guys are really losing sleep over piracy.
Hugh @ 40
Are you serious? This was his response?
Nadler flubbed on that last question: if AGAG was so out of the loop, how can he be confident that nothing improper happened? And who should we be talking to instead?
And someone still needs to ask who, specifically, he would consider having the authority to add or remove names to the list. Take your time, Alberto, and name them all, one by one. Because the Magic Consensus Pixie doesn’t do it.
Gonzo: “pleasure of the President… process… process… candid conversation… we can do better.”
yea, shut up…
Conyers is too laid back…..
Lundgren and Cannon should have their seats changed…they are a disruptive presence and the teacher needs to separate them.
Scott of VA.
Helen @ 36
Yes, Abu speaks to the USAs except when he doesn’t.
Scott (D VA) Adam Walsh. Head start.
WTF–Even the Dems are going off topic! Who is this guy Bobby Scott and who the hell is he pandering to, other than his own ego?
Somebody gave Abu extra caffeine this morning and rehearsed him well enough to talk faster so that his non-answers don’t appear to be quite so moronic. And primed the Repug pump with non-issues that he can show off on.
“I work for the White House…you work for the White House.”
How can you possibly move forward unless you clean up the past?
Are there e-mails (other communications to ask about)?
This is infuriating. What a bunch of clowns. When is someone going to ask a substantive question? What is going on here?
This House committee is not really up to the job…
Ooops!
Did the WH ask you to remove any USA?
Gonzales stumbles.
I’m going to take that as a “yes, but I won’t tell you who it was.”
w/o benefit of video, where can I find a list of who is on committee/questioning this morning?
Force the AG to step down? And then what do we get? Another Gates. Unless you can tie the AG directly to Bush, Cheney, Rove and their criminal behavior and activities, and perhaps promote impeachment, well… I’d like to see Gonzales stay. Lightning rod and all. To employ a bit of Rove think; Mr. Gonzales’ presence helps the progressive agenda.
ok – here’s the problem – the official title/subject of this hearing is Oversight Hearing on the United States Department of Justice
Too broad.
And my C-Span is cutting in and out – making me even more grouchy.
kdh22 @ 47
The nothing part is my conclusion. Abu says only that things have been thought about. He does not say one thing that has been actually done.
Speaking of Voter fraud–why doesn’t someone ask Abu why allegations of caging–which is illegal–are not being investigated in Ohio, New Mexico and Florida–among many other places I bet.
Christ All Mighty I am a soccer mom and peasant and I could ask better questions! For the lawyers out there are these questions “milktoast”?
Want somebody to ask if there has ever been a delegation of hiring/firing authority to subordinate staff in USDOJ — and if so, was it for other than illness or if it was not to DAG.
Grrr…
jayt @ 64
I switched to the HJC feed — it is better. CHS has link above.
Nanz @ 34
I wonder if Dems want Rs to use up their time?…anyway, the MSM will have something to air.
Now that’s an excellent question!!
Are you aware of any who were pressured politically who weren’t fired?
Abu can’t answer it.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 63
OKK – that makes sense. I’m just so frustrated and impatient. I want justice now, but there probably is long-term benefit for Abu to stay right where he is…for now.
Did I hear that right? There was a meeting with BUSH and Rove and AG concerning voter fraud cases in OCTOBER 2006?
The committee Dems need to accept that Gonzo will not voluntarily provide actual truthful answers to straightforward questions. They need to lead him more indirectly, and ask follow-ups promptly when he answers hypothetically (”I wouldn’t do that” instead of “I didn’t do that”).
Are there e-mails that they are waiting for?
Scott – Harriet Miers. How did Yang get on the list?
Abu: Can’t recall
Scott – was she on a HM target list?
Abu: Yang said she could not live on the USA salary
Gonzo: I haven’t read the NYTimes editorial.
Gallergy: Welcome General Gonzales.
Gallegy (R) – The NJ guys were just like Mohammed Atta
jayt @ 16
Terroist, money in the freezer, pedophiles, what is the topic here? These are our reps?
The Cover-up is in full gear.
Gonzo almost admitted White House involvement in USA evaluations — closest he’s come yet to actually cooperating with the Committee. Sorry, can’t remember the details.
Bob in HI
Gallegly: Brown-skinned terrorists!
Gallergy: Illegal aliens stopped for traffic violations. (Moron.)
#63 & #72–Except it leaves our justice department in shambles to leave this incompetent hack there. And it gives the petulant 3 year old running our country a further feeling of invincibility.
Jane S. @ 69
Where is that link?
I have to say this for the Republicans. They’ve arranged their filibustering so it looks novel each time:
For a bunch of automatons, they can sure be creative when they need to be.
For a guy who knows nothing about nobody and can’t even remember what he was thinking or remembered at any given time, he suddenly seems to know a lot about what was going on in Harriet’s head wrt Yang.
This needs to be followed up on: How do you know that Harriet was concerned with Yang’s financial worries? And if you can remember that–why don’t you remember anything else?
He instinctively jumped to Harriet’s defense on that one–showing his hand–I hope someone has the cojones to follow up on that.
Helen @ 76
First I’ve heard that Debra Wong Yang was worried about going broke on a USA’s salary. Is there an interview I missed?
Gallegry – this past Sat the WP talked about illegal immigrant
Gallegly: Illegal immigrants who have evaded deportation orders. (Moron.)
Gonzo: DoJ doesn’t have enough resources to go after all the illegal aliens committing traffic offenses on their way to molesting children!
Kathleen–
http://judiciary.house.gov/
“history has a … uh… long history of repeating itself.”
They give limited time to people who are ON message, yet allow all this Repug sidebars on other issues??
EW — see Helen (76) — do you take that as a suggestion that Yang asked for compensation?
are these questions “milktoast”?
No – milquetoast
As I suggested before, memmbers of the Committee who are not former litigators should cede their time to those who were.
My C-Span link is getting worse and worse – and totally screwing up my “I don’t recall” count. I’m about ready to break something…
Gonzo: Dead prison space for illegal aliens.
Oh YES, we should jail and TORTURE traffic violators because they may be “hiding in our neighborhoods”…
JEEZ
Representatives are by and large slightly dumber than the drunk at the end of the bar who holds forth on politics and what (and who) the real problems are.
Mr. Peabody @ 62
The full committee roster is here — even w/ the house feed, I’m having trouble keeping up w/ who’s questioning.
Right now, it’s Gallegly, R-CA
Gal – “In the last 18 months of your term…”
BWA HA HA HA HA
Woodhall Hollow @ 87
That’s a very good spot. That Yang wasn’t part of the Sampson and Delilah purge suggests she was marked out for special treatment, and what could be more special than a cool $1.4m from Ted Olson’s law firm?
jayt @ 96
Try the HJC feed, link above at #92.
emptywheel @ 9
Protecting our children.
Jane Hamsher @ 18
I am convinced Rove held a conference call with all of them Sensenbrenner Kotex, Coble &tc. and told them to pick an issue, any issue, illegal immigrants, the rights of Disney and warner bros, and change the subject so that Abu can look like he’s *in charge*. Anything but Goodling and the Lewis case and . . .
I guess the Repubs need lies under oath about a b/j to stay on topic. What the hell is going on. If they lose their seats they only have themselves to blame.
30% of Repubs in Ohio voted for Strickland for Governor. Don’t they get this yet this is beyond party lines.
Gallegly: Drug smugglers and human trafficking. (Moron.)
Jane S. @ 84
Are you saying that George Bush will bring in an honest AG to clean up the mess after Gonzales?
wrt the HJC – they probably have some behind the scenes info that has freed them up to let the Rs do this song and dance. You all know that trump cards are held close to the vest. I’m thinking (hoping) they have a ulterior strategy.
The Repubs are trying to shift the focus to issues of competence, presumably to demonstrate that Gonzo’s presence is essential to our national safety (or that if we have to get rid of him, we can blame it on something other than the USA scandal).
Zoe Lofgren. (yikes.)
& what is all this “poor Yang” stuff. No, a USA does not earn as much as a big law firm atty but they know that when they take the job. And USA saleries are higher than the median American salery–it would be fun to ask why she was so freaked out about $$. Like, did she have a credit card problem? Which would loop back around to the willingness (or the desperation) to accept a 1 mil $
bribebonus.Jane S. @ 69
I don’t see the link? :-(
Lofgren (D 0 CA) talking about name checks
brendan @ 104
from what?
emptywheel @ 86
Maybe the Republics can ask Abu how he feels about dressing Chihuahuas in tutus.
just got back from a reboot – of course Galleghy asked him about DOJ’s participation in the consolidatioin of the 13 different watch lists – right ?!?!?
This is a generic oversight hearing before the whole judiciary committee.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 108
I’m not trying to pick a fight–and I’m nervous about Christy’s servers. I don’t think he can get a clown AG confirmed at this point. And I don’t see why this country should have an AG who is either a criminal/liar or an incompetent fool.
brendan @ 104
Yeah, he sure protected all those House pages from those REpublican Congressmen.
Lofgren asking about ninth USA…
I agree. Gonzales can’t recall squat about 8…er, 9 USAs or anything about the process, having signed everything over to a tier 4 lawyer, yet suddenly recalls specifics about Yang’s financial situation.
Huh????
Lofgren – 9th name Graves refused to sign onto a lawsuit re voter fraud.
Abu: That case had nothing to do with his departure. Spoke to Civil rights division. Nothing to see here.
The pace of our comments is beginning to take it’s toll on the servers…and Christy’s fingers.
Let’s be judicious with our comments during live blog.
Thanks.
Lofgren brings up Graves. He refused to sign onto . . . What voter card?
Woodhall — USA salaries are significantly below what lawyers earn in the private sector. Significantly. Especially in jurisdictions where the cost of living is substantial, such as where Yang is in CA. It’s a huge problem in attracting good personnel both in USA offices and in judgeships. Unless you are independently wealthy, is can be very difficult to take a huge pay cut to take the jobs — and that raises questions about diversity of experience and background in hiring, among a lot of other things, in terms of what evaluative factors people in the office have in looking at cases.
Gonzales wanted Lofgren to help purge voters? Is that it?
Gonzales: We are evaluating whether to appeal the MO voter fraud case that was thrown out.
Shorter Abu G: Damn! We didn’t pull off our disenfranchisement efforts the first time, but never you worry, we’re going to keep trying!!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 108
Are you saying that George Bush will bring in an honest AG to clean up the mess after Gonzales?
Only by accident.
Watching hearing on ‘mute’ at work. Must say Gonzo looks a lot more relaxed now than when he first came in.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 126
Christy: devil’s advocate? j/k.
How would you define “reasonable”
I had to get up for a while. Have any Republicans asked questions on the topic? One?
emptywheel @ 128
This is revolting. ? of Civil Rights Division stands behind litigation? Schlotzman. I am sick. MO. As if the history of Jim Crow ain’t bad enough.
How did this hearing get so sandbagged, hijacked, and corrupted so easily by Republicans? I thought the Dems had won control of Congress last fall?
Lets just hope it’s not Lungren replacing Gonzo…
“Delegate THIS!”
Rev Deb at #115:
I was being sarcastic. He often hides behind “the children”. I’d be curious if Bush DOJ, from a statistical perspective, has been agressive about child pornography and other crimes against children, though I suspect I know the answer.
Lungren: former AG of CA. How many employees? Do you delegate?
Abu: yep
Lungren: In terms of USAs should they reflect what pres wants?
AG isn’t your job really, really hard? You couldn’t possibly know what goes on in your own department could you?
So USA salaries do’t match what can be made on the outside. So what? USAs know this going in. And it isn’t exactly like it’s starvation wages. And Yang’s leaving one month before the firing of the 8 USAs is not an accident or coincidence.
Lungren: total reach-around.
McNulty leaving?
TPMuckraker
Elliott @ 39
Ole !
One Tequila, two Tequila, three Tequila, FLOOR !
brendan @ RonD @ 140
Is Abu smiling now?
emptywheel at #120:
Sorry to make you build a ziggurat. I should have put that in ironic quotes: “Protecting our children”.
Lungren: Voter fraud.
Lungren: voter fraud
Abu: People are stealing votes.
REALLY Abu; Who would that be?
Could they pan in on Lundgren a little closer so we can see the earpiece connecting him to Karl? He sure spouted his lines on-topic.
lundergan giving him total leading quesitons
Is this an all day hearing?
Maybe ok for repugs. to come on alternately, gives chance for potty break, get coffee, stretch legs, scream out loud
good morning. wow, lungren is sure earning his scooby snack.
CSpan has Conyers live in a window awaiting US House vote on small business contracting.
1,511 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hardin Smith and the Firepup Patriots:
Our Democrats on this committee , including Mr. Conyers, are pathetically unprepared. This is the first time I have EVER heard Conters sputter when the respondent doesn’t answer his question…he always has another follow up question that provides the answer to the first for listeners. Why are the Democrats lettin’ this fascist bastard off the hook??!!!
KEEP THE FAITH, MAYBE IT’S TIME TO GO AFTER SOME DEMOCRATS IN ‘08!!!
Now seeing the complete conflation of policy and politics in the choosing and retention of USAs.
Who is spoon feeding Gonzales at the moment?
Gonzo conflating voter suppression and vote fraud.
lundergan acting confuesd
And here it is! “Abu: we serve, I serve at the pleasure of the preznit”
Lungren is trying to give Abu a blankie to hide under. Sorry Danny and Abu, but I had 635 employees under my wing at a former position, I knew all of their names, knew stats about their job performances, off the top of my head. Now if I can do that, and I don’t even have a fancy Ivy League (or any other kind of) degree, what is the problem with knowing whether or not any number of 93 employees–93 of my most important employees–were asked to resign? I know how many of my 635 were asked to do that, and they were just worker bees. That number, by the way, was 1.
Lungren: Did anyone in WH tell you to fire someone cuz of prosecutions
Abu: they didn’t say that to me.
Break for a vote
Hugh @ 139
Ah, they’re trying the Heffelfinger Defense, eh? (He claims that he left ‘cuz he needed the money, yet his family is one of the richest in Minnesota!)
Gonzo: I have the privilege of serving…
Karl “what the dickens is this hearing about”?
Terroist,illegal immigrants, pedophiles, money in freezers? Can they please ask a question about the topic.
The Repubs need a b.j. to investigate to stay on topic. They are losing don’t they get it?
Argh. Now I’m just disgusted.
Sometime this morning, I’m sure, Abu G made a decision to take voter fraud on head on–that is, in the face of allegations about Todd Graves being fired, he was going to make a concerted case that their vote fraud cases were legitimate. He just made a full court press, making the requisite appeal to being a minority.
That’s what this administration is going to stake their last effort on: an attempt to disenfranchise people of color.
This hearing is not worth the popcorn.
Any idea how long the recess will be?
Recess.
dakine01 @ 146
That’s exactly what Gonzo said!
LJ/Aquaria @ 157
Ah, but you were actually doing your job as it is supposed to be done, not trying to protect a dweeb that you’ve built a career out of protecting.
link to CRS report on USAs: CRS USAs 81-06
So what is a quick synopsis of what is going on?
-GSD
Lungren’s Karl connection is for real, they were very happy to get him to Washington, he’s “one of them.”
Lou Costello @ 165
Lou: that’s funny!
Lou Costello @ 165
Short version without all the elaboration and convulsions
Recess. I hope the Dems use the time to get their act together.
The Yang thing needs to be followed up on. As well as questions as to whether a guy who doesn’t have a clue about almost everything can manage.
I think Rove saw to it that Abu was well prepped to answer the questions about everything else–and then faxed the questions and the follow-ups to the Repubs. Clever in that way, that Karl.
GSD @ 168
“I work for the White House…you work for the White House.”
GSD @ 168
Dems: Are you a lying weasel?
Gonzo: Not to my knowledge.
Repubs: Is DoJ working hard to protect us from brown-skinned terrorist child molesters attempting to vote fraudulently?
Gonzo: We’re trying to.
GSD @ 168
SHAM
DISGRACE
FARCE
MOCKERY
replaying….
Wonder if Sanchez actually did say ‘target’ or not…
Lundgren and the republicans are playing spoiler, taking issue with minor points, but also elevating Gonzales by asking questions designed to make him appear more “attorney general-ish” in his capacity of public ‘crimefighter.’
Makes sense why Gonzo felt more confident, probably informed that the republicans would churn up the silt to obscure the blatant partisan shenanigans of Abu-G’s tinkering with the Justice department.
I fully expected one of the republican butt-kissers to ask Gonzales to expound on how he was personally saved our children from drugs, terrorists and illegal immigrants.
Oy….
Republican marching orders: “Tongue the Bung”
dakine01 @ 166
My bold, because this is the very essence of what Abu is all about, and it couldn’t be put in simpler terms…
bookwoman @ 134
I just tuned in but I could see immediately that some of his smugness has returned so it figures the Publicans have been massaging his nether regions gratuitously. Blech.
JEP @ 169
I’m sorry to be so blunt but I am from California.
Lungren is a HUGE piece of shit. Always has been, always will be.
GSD @ 168
Most dems scatter shot. Most reduyacans are lobbing OT questions so Abu can look professional and concerned
Phoenix Woman @ 159
That was my point. No–it is not what a lawyer can earn in the private sector, but it is still a decent salary by MOST people’s standards. And they do know what the deal is before they take the job. I think there could be some dirt there–perhaps she was “vulnerable” (and money issues can make a person quite vulnerable) and that vulnerability was used to pry her away from her job and the Lewis investigation. What do we know about her replacement?
GSD @ 168
ABu is confident and relaxed. (He has the full confidence of Le Moron Stupide). Most on-topic questions have no time for answers, which are to be submitted in writing. Repugs trying to change the subject by bringing up *Intellectual Property Rights* (which Abu allegedly worries about constantly), terrorism, and traffic stops of terra-ists. Recess.
emptywheel @ 162
Note to Democratic HJC staffers: Go to http://tpmmuckraker.com/ and start reading. The rebuttal evidence is all there.
emptywheel @ 162
Marcy, I got sick during that part of the testimony on Graves. Really, really sick. It’s like these nutbags are sending us back to Jim Crow days.
Helen @ 147
This is not the move of a cool Rove, but rather the angry one who freaked out on Sheryl Crow. Gonzalez was effective as a punching dummy. Why provoke his adverseries into digging into election tampering any more than they already are.
Repubs smarter about hijacking the process.
the “Target” issue was another shiny object…
Lewis is toast after this, when the other R’s rush so desperately to protect him from besmirchment, they transparetnly give away where their biggest lies are all hiding.
They just brought Lewis into the big spotlight all by themselves, Sanchez’ statement would have faded into the MSM’s confusion if they had not mad such an issue out of it.
Stupid Chess players, the R’s.
Helen @ 158
The proper follow up should be:
“So who did they say it to? The person you delegated your authority in this matter to?”
emptywheel @ 162
They are morally despicable.
And slow learners.
When the CA Rethugs did this with 187, they ensured Hispanic voters would identify as Dems – just as a whole generation of US born Hispanics reached voting age in CA.
Nice to see the Rethugs’ hatred of minorities launch them into permanent minority status.
dakine01 @ 166
The USPS is not without the same empire builders and megalomaniacs. There’s a reason I walked away from being management. I was a Patrick Fitzgerald having to deal with a fellow aspiree who was a Schlozman. She kissed ass. I didn’t. Guess who was “valued” more?
very shortly, i’ll have
posted a youtube’d mash-up
video of these highly-ironic,
and tragically-comic, testimony
moments — check back soon!
jIg @ 187
they’re scrupulesser
That does not answer the question.
tbsa @ 180
When he shut down the canabis clubs on the eve of state legalization, he was working for the Feds, not California. They tackled and handcuffed wheel-chair bound club members, it is a very sad tale.
Lungren and Edwin Meese are conjoined twins separated at birth…
You know at the end of the day, I’m afraid this is going nowhere. Unless somebody really talks (highly doubtful), Gonzales, et al will just keep spinning until the clock runs out.
tbsa @ 180
Amen.
The word for day should be “caging” – it is highly illegal, yet the Rethugs have been getting away with it for years becuause NO ONE in the rethug justice dept as seriously iinvestigated it. Including in New Mexico where it was rampant in the last 2 elections. Iglesisias may not have been willing to bring spurious indictments against Acorn etc, but he was willing to be a good boy and not notice when there was real voter fraud going on right under his nose, managed by Karl Rove’s shop.
I wish Conyers would focus on it.
noen @ 189
Did Harriet tell Kyle to tell you?
The Republicans are seeking to muddy the waters by bringing up extraneous issues and making egregious objections.
The Democrats need more focus. Conyers nailed the central question. Who came up with the idea for this list in the first place? They need to keep hammering away at this. Why specifically did Abu do what he did? How come he knows only the details that are convenient but then has dense amnesia on everything else? How can Abu lead an organization when he has failed so miserably in doing so?
I’m sorry, been out of the loop, but when is Goodling testifying?
Did Sanches actually say “target?”
LJ/Aquaria @ 191
I’ve been in the same position. Also had a cousin who was a union rep with USPS after moving over from VA. We prefer to rabble rouse from below. A little more satisfying than being management. ;})
The Chicago Tribune wrote an article about John Nowacki today informing that he is now a target in the Attorney Firing Probe…
http://www.chicagotribune.com/…..;cset=true
I have been writing about John Nowacki since March 30th on my blog:
http://misterapologist.blogspot.com
I have pictures of every relevant document pertaining to John Nowacki that was released by the Justice Department in their document dumps. I also have links to his stories written at the Free Congress Foundation and background information- in a true muckraker fashion…
Mandrake @ 201
no date set, yet.
subpoena for her testimony,
with a date certain, may issue,
tomorrow, friday, may 11, 2007.
Nola Sue @ 100
tanks
all 40 of them? did I count that right?
Woodhall Hollow @ 172
Word. Someone ought to bring up the solicitation of softballs from Sen Sessions in a previous hearing, and ask if there’s been any coordination this time around.
‘Not tuh mah knawledge.’
But this is disappointing so far. Perhaps House staffers don’t have the time to be as clued, or perhaps the Senate just attracts the smarter ones. But instead of every Dem wanting his/her three minutes, I’d rather one or two members who are engaged with this investigation be yielded sufficient time to conduct a sustained line of questioning.
And the big stinking question is, as Hugh said, who had the authority to add names to the list. They don’t just appear like in the Book of Daniel.
GreenstoneMedia.net Womens radio
Colbert with Gloria and Jane
http://colbertondemand.com/vid…..jane_fonda
No wonder the nation is in such dire straits.
When corruption collides with fecklessness, corruption wins hands down.
-GSD
Woodhall Hollow @ 198
Please define caging. Thanks.
This hijacking should be stopped by Conyers shouldn’t it?
I do think that Abu vaguely pointed to the WH a couple of times in this hearing. I thought I heard him refer to the judicial committee in the WH making decisions on what judges to appoint and that USAs were discussed in those meetings as well. At the end, he was asked if the WH had recommended USAs to be fired and he said not to him personally. So, I think he is definitely connecting Sampson/Goodling to Rove and Miers. He got really flustered when asked about when Goodling came on board. I wish they would pursue that questioning more to establish how closely they interacted. What about the authorization documents. Why aren’t the Dems asking when and if he signed them himself. What is his understanding of the role of WH Liaison? Stay on topic.
Got the audio of Sanchez/Lewis/target:
Sanchez referred to Lewis as “target” when summarizing the question after first asking about Yang “conducting an active investigation”.
Point from the re-play: Why did Abu leave AFA? Wonder if he was booted or just couldn’t hack it?
JEP @ 195
I was trying to remember why Lungren rang so many ugly bells in my mind, and this was it. The handcuffed people in wheel chairs brought it all back.
And that twerp is in Congress now. Figures. I think he’s from Sacto, which would make sense.
pseudonymous in nc @ 206
And have experience as excellent prosecutors.
back on. simpering repub commentary, mentioning 9/11, natch. that alone should make conyers go atomic on gonzo’s ass.
whoops, not back on. replaying beginning of hearing.
spurious @ 197
So when is he up to be taken out?
Capital J at #209:
Use wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caging
Woodhall Hollow @ 198
Woodhall, I’m completely ignorant about “caging”. Could you posssibly point to a linky or definition?
(At first I wondered if caging is something Gannon was paid for…)
_________
saw answers – off to Wiki – thanks!
Catch Rove between doses, and you get the angry maniac “Mr.Hyde” instead of the evil genius “Dr. Jekyll.”
I predict Goodling is the firewall, and will take the fall. (Oh. THAT reason for citing the FIfth? It was all me. Everything. That memo gave me the authority…etc)
The R openning statement just replayed put her in the spotlight. It means something.
star chamber!
Capital J @ 210
A political party challenges the validity of a voter’s registration; for the voter’s ballot to be counted, the voter must prove that their registration is valid.
Voters targeted by caging are often the most vulnerable: those who are unfamiliar with their rights under the law, and those who cannot spare the time, effort, and expense of proving that their registration is valid. Ultimately, caging works by dissuading a voter from casting a ballot, or by ensuring that they cast a provisional ballot, which is less likely to be counted.
kirk murphy at #219:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caging
Republicans have a never endings supply of underlings who will commit political hari kari for the greater cause.
Libby’s and Liddy’s if you will.
-GSD
LS @ 211
Conyers really cant stop Repubs from going OT (hearing is pretty broad) but he could get Dems to donate their time to one or two (tag team) really good questioners (Nadler and Sanchez maybe) to hammer it home. Would be more effective than this.
pseudonymous in nc @ 206
Two points:
One, the best way to counter the repubs when they are going off topic is simply to call attention to it. That is the best way to deal with any opponent who is being disingenuous, You counter by pulling the frame back and to basically call them on their shit.
Two, most representatives are egotistical morons. This goes double in congress.
Kathleen @ 217: This is a house hearing so it’s ‘08 like all representatives. ALL house seats up every two years, senate staggers so that 33/34 up every two years but all up in six year period.
Blank Kludge @ 221
Which is why there needs to be sufficient evidence gathered before she testifies to prevent an Ollie North rerun.
Kathleen @ 218
spurious @ 197
tbsa @ 180
I’m sorry to be so blunt but I am from California.
Lungren is a HUGE piece of shit. Always has been, always will be.
-
Amen.
-
So when is he up to be taken out?
-
every 2 years, hon.
Kathleen @ 218
spurious @ 197
tbsa @ 180
I’m sorry to be so blunt but I am from California.
Lungren is a HUGE piece of shit. Always has been, always will be.
-
Amen.
-
So when is he up to be taken out?
-
The steaming pile that is Lungren was just re-elected.
Caging is challenging the registration and right to vote of someone. The targets are usually the poor who have the fewest resources to contest the accusation. The aim is to discourage voters from voting or fight the challenge.
GSD #226, you’re absolutely right: the question is why? What is it about the modern Republican Party that produces this endless stream of totally devoted stormtroopers willing to die for the cause?
PS-I love reading your stuff.
GSD @ 208
But the combination is even more effective.
brendan @ 219
gregpalast.com is another source
mui @105
great point about the Rove organizing distracting questions. The oppisite can be said for the Dems. It doesn’t look at all like Conyers or anyone had any meeting to organize a line of questioning that follows a thread of logic.
I would suggest Dems cooperate with each other give the balance of their time to the best inquisitor of the group and actually get somewhere. And put this lying bastard Abu under oath.
I like Conyers, his heart is in the right place but he is a terrible chairman.
This from MSNBC:
WASHINGTON – Democrats pressed for more answers on the firings of U.S. attorneys Thursday even as Attorney General Alberto Gonzales insisted he hasn’t remembered any new details and Republicans called for an end to the congressional probe.
Not watching the hearings. Is my party doing a good job this morning?
Yeah! at last! Conyers asks who suggested the nmes on the list!
Gonz. :more bullshit, same old stuff
C: Answer the goddamn question!
I only caught the last 20 minutes or so before the break, but the Dems seem really unprepared — Don’t they have staffers who are supposed to bring them up to speed and prep them for this?
Capital J @ 210
Here is a wiki link. For more on what has happened in the last 2 elections google caging, Greg Palast and RFK JR. It IS illegal.
The most insidious part about KKKarl’s little scheme is that they use these caging lists to challenge individual voters at the polls (just rethug operatives sitting there with their list) and so the voter is given a “provisional ballot” which will supposedly be counted later if it can be verified that the voter is not voting fraudulently. But the truth of the matter is that provisional ballots are almost never dealt with or counted, due to a variety of reasons, including lack of resources at local precincts. And a failure on the part of the Dem Party to make sure that provisional ballots are counted, even if that means challenging an election result.
Much more damaging to our democracy that the little so-called voter fraud cases that KKKarl wants the DOJ to use to harrass local Dem voter registration drives. And to use as a justification for a required voter ID card–which is a huge disincentive for people voting, particularly those who lead more chaotic lives like young people, the poor, etc.
Lungren: Did anyone in WH tell you to fire someone cuz of prosecutions
Abu: they didn’t say that to me.”
Follow-up Question: Do you know if they said it to Monica Goodling?
Ron,
Thanks.
It is weird how the Republicans claim to loathe Al Qaeda suicide ethic, but it seems to be the one credo deep down……. they love, seeing people sacrificed for a cause…Physically, politically or spiritually.
What worries me is that hey seem to be applying this ethic to America as a whole.
When I see the leader of Russia calling America a pack of Nazi’s, I know the train has run off the tracks.
-GSD
Thanks, tbsa @223, for defining caging. I was a poll worker last fall and a woman from the Republican Party sat behind the voter check-in desk for much of the day waiting to challenge someone. It didn’t happen; our precinct is full of prosperous Republicans.
conniptionfit @ 239
If you are watching c-span this is a rerun of the opening this morning.
Members are voting and will return soon.
Okay, question for the legal eagles here: how does the immunity process work? I know there was a vote passed to grant Goodling limited immunity, but I assume there’s some process where the immunity is then profferred and accepted? Can Congress decide that they don’t want to give her immunity and just have things ‘reset’ back to she gets subpeona’d and refuses to testify under Fifth Amendment rights? Basicly, if Congress decides that granting her immunity was a bad idea, can they revoke the immunity before she testifies? Or is there some point at which immunity is set in stone?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 238
They’re a little scattered, except for conyers who is currently bitching G out for not anwering his question about who put the names on the list.
tbsa @ 232
-
Amen.
-
So when is he up to be taken out?
-
The steaming pile that is Lungren was just re-elected.
Lungren’s district is a red as California gets (Sacramento suburbs and Sierra foothills gold country) but they also have had a very hard time finding a top-tier candidate to take him on, Lungren’s buried like a tick in the California Republican party machine, when I say “he’s one ot ‘them’” it is meant in the darkest, most dangerous terms.
Lungren is one of “them.”
[modnote: protect mod sanity, no more quote nesting]
Oklahoma kiddo @ 237
It would appear the answer to that is no, the Dems decided that their own interests are more important than getting to the bottom of this.
GSD @ 225
Suicide bombers.
dakine01 @ 228
Feeding the take him out time’s up!
Fresh thread to keep everyone going until live testimony resumes.
RonD @ 233
Well the short answer is that they don’t expct to. Abu is after all still Attorney General. He is looking forward to a future of well paid wingnut welfare. As for the Monica Goodlings of this world, they are rather like cockroaches. They feel they are too small to be noticed. They don’t expect to get caught and are always shocked when someone turns the light on.
The R’s conspired to toss fluff at GonZo, while the Dems apparently did not confer or conspire…
1970cs @ 237
He is a decent man, but I think that his nimbleness has been worn down.
Time for some go getters.
-GSD
spurious @ 250
They have career suicide bombers.
-GSD
What is status of the subpoena of RNC on emails?
Having those emails would change the content of the questions PDQ.
McKay and Iglesias tired of the lies and intimidation! This has nothing to do with party lines…this has to do with the truth! Something Rove would not recognize even if he is put in an orange suit and frog marched into prison.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c…..um09m.html
1,511 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Blank Kludge and the Firepup Patriots:
“I predict Goodling is the firewall and will take the fall.”
I think you are absolutely right on, brother. So the members of this committee better hire a staff person to coordinate the cross examination and put Goodling on notice that she can be put away for perjury if her testimony is proven false, especially as it relates to contacts and instructions from the White House. This is why all the missing E-mails and lack of subpoenas for documents and the people behind them are so important. The Democrats thru their total lack of competence and lack of top flight staff attorneys have let these criminals off the hook and in so doing have let the American people down. These criminals are goin’ ta skate and we are gunna be left with a completely corrupted federal Civil Service because of the incompetence of this committee.
KEEP THE FAITH BUT START USIN’ THAT AMMUNITION!!
GSD, again I agree. One can draw a direct line from Liddy, to North & Poindexter, to DeLay, to Libby, Gonzo et al, even incuding Fielding. This has been a long-term, generational effort to put Party ahead of country. I just don’t understand how some of these people don’t look in the mirror and say,” I’m a disgusting partisan pig! I’m not going to do this anymore! Some things are more important!”
Remember when Liddy offered to stand on the corner and be assassinated, so Watergate could all be blamed on him, and thus deflected? That’s the ethic in its purest form.
GSD @ 243
*snort* I think it was the WaPo that included a definition of ’shock and awe’ in one of it’s recent articles. I’m afraid I don’t remember the exact phrases they used to elucidate the meaning of the phrase, but I remember being stunned when I read the phrases. I sat there thinking, “There’s a perfectly good word that means ’shock and awe’ and they had to go coin a phrase that means the same thing?! That’s really annoying!”
Of course, that word is ‘blitzkrieg’, so I can see why they avoid it …
A propos “caging” — you have to understand the mentality of the rank and file Republican who approves of this. Besides believing the law is for suckers, they also don’t believe in the principle of “one man, one vote”. They don’t even think of it asdiscriminating by race. The way they see it, blacks are a lazy, shiftless, “dependent” bunch who let Dem ward bosses herd them to the polls: how else to explain that 90% affiliation? If they don’t have the gumption to overcome minor obstacles to voting, why make it easier for them? To this essentially patrician mindset the concocted voter fraud stories add the requisite dose of grievance and hysteria to animate the actual illegal acts we’re seeing.
brendan says @ 219
Thanks for the wiki link. I had heard of this practice before, but had never heard the term “caging” associated with it.
Blair resigns…
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/s…..TE=DEFAULT
kirk murphy @ 190
Excellent point (I’m proud that my first astute political judgment was that 187 would sink the CA Republicans).
Except that we need to MAKE this an issue. They’re criminalizing the registration of people of color in this country, and it’s on that justification that AGAG wants to legitimize firing some good USAs.
bookwoman @ 134
Conyers opening was on target, Sanchez hit hard, and then it seemed they drank some of the kool-aid.
Lundgren had better pay attention some Republicans are tired of this hogwash, some are losing their seats. Get to the truth folks, this is beyond party lines!
1,511 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Firepup Patriots:
What we have witnessed this morning is nuthin’ short of the complete collapse of Democratic opposition to this fascist administration…the only way we the people are gunna get our democracy and our Democrats back is thru MORE DEMOCRACY. We need massive nationwide voter registration drives and targeted videos like what the Edwards campaign has begun on ALL the issues of this next election cycle. I am convinced that only Al Gore or John Edwards (in that order) can reclaim our Constitution…if any other Democrat is elected it will be the last meaningful federal election. I think that a wingnut President with a large majority Democratic Congress would be safer than Mrs. Clinton.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T WAIT FOR ANY ORDERS!!
albert fall @ 256
I have asked this several times. Why not ask about the e-mails? Are they still waiting?
Good God.
Get a couple of moonbat bloggers on staff in congress.
We’ll get some biting questions to Alberto.
-GSD
noen @ 249
It would not be in their best interests to NOT get to the bottom of this, considering the importance of the issue at hand and also the protracted whining from Publicans that this is all a political witchhunt.
It would be helpful if they could exhibit to the American public their passion for truth and democracy by exposing the criminality of what has happened. Otherwise, whiny Repubes win with their “we are the victims” argument, which I find increasingly ironic considering what tuff guys they were supposed to be in Mission Accomplished days.
Since becoming a minority, all they can do is whine, bitch and obfuscate. I certainly don’t want a bunch of mewling pansies trying to protect MY homeland and freedoms that are being threatened by the brown enemy as we speak!!! ;|
Just like the spin about the “brave band of Republics” who just “confronted” Bush in the Whitehouse…
Gee, they must be tough to stand up to Bush in the face of lemming march off the cliffs.
-GSD
Holy CRAP is this hearing useless so far. The Republicans are running cover by yapping about everything BUT the issue at hand (except when they’re yapping about how they shouldn’t be investigating the US Attorney issue) and the Democrats all seem to be sleepwalking through the whole thing, almost as though somebody tranked them before the hearing.
And God love Conyers, but he’s running this hearing like an elderly substitute teacher.
Now the Republicans are filibustering over a single word from a previous member’s questioning, and Conyers’ response was a laconic, almost pleading “Aw, come on…”
This whole thing is just uncomfortable as hell to watch, and quite honestly I think that if it’s having any effect at all it’s to undermine the investigation as a whole. The Senate had their shit together SO much better.
Big difference between voter fraud and election fraud. In the last six years, in the face of a full-court press by Rove and co. only 20 cases of voter fraud have been established. Doing like Ann Coulter and registering at the wrong address. The impact on elections are non-existant. However, the 2000 election perked up Rovers ears to a potential classical tactic. Wide-spread election fraud perpertrated by the Bush crime family was the genesis of using voter fraud, which is microscopic by comparison, as a tool to set the table that has permeated our DoJ and civil rights division.
Election fraud is massive–voter fraud is Coulteresque.
I read comments criticizing Coble (R-NC).
Dead on. He is Republican hack and a a very stupid man besides. He is trying to look like a faithful Republican. As to to brains: there is no there there.
kdh22 @ 17
Yeah I am not so proud of the current tarheel representatives. Wankers.
Cannon trashing Lam.
Someone needs to ask Gonzales if he respected Comey’s judgement re Lam.
God–no he is slaying Iglesias. “Not exactly paragons of competence”
These guys have no shame and they are dumb to boot–just going to piss the fired ones off even more.
What votes?
LJ/Aquaria @ 214
JEP @ 195
Lundgren’s originally from the OC…Long Beach, was a “Nixon Youth”…but moved to Sac’to when he served as California Atty General back when Deukmejian was Gov. He didn’t want to run in a primary vs. Dana “I’m a lunatic, hear me …” Rorhabacher…so he ran for Doug Ose’s vacated seat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Lungren