At the opening of this morning's hearing, John Conyers had one main question he put to Alberto Gonzales — who put the names of the 8 US attorneys on thefiring list? It was a question others repeated throughout the day and over and over again, Gonzales claimed that it was a "collaborative" recommendation made by career Justice Department officials. In response to questioning by Rep. Cohen, Gonzales claimed that neither Bush, Cheney, Rove nor Harriet Miers put their names on the list, not based on any specific information but just because he knows they wouldn't do something like that.
Right-o.
So who were those were "consulted?" From Paul Kiel:
Under questioning by Rep. Hank Johnson (D-GA), Gonzales cited Kyle Sampson's consultation of then-Deputy Attorney General James Comey in early of 2005 as proof that there had been a process of consulting career Justice Department officials on their views of U.S. attorneys. Of course, Comey testified last week that he had not known that there was any sort of effort to target U.S. attorneys for removal when he offered his views to Sampson (views that Sampson totally ignored).
Gonzales admitted as much: "There were people that were being consulted… they may not have known they were providing information that would then form the basis of some kind of list."
So there you have it: Comey was part of a collaborative review process that he didn't know he was a part of.
Gonzales gave much the same response to questions about Paul McNulty:
Later in the hearing, Rep. Linda Sanchez (D-CA) questioned Gonzales about Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty's comment to a fired U.S. attorney that McNulty had had "limited input" in the process. And here Gonzales said that "it was my understanding or belief" that Sampson was giving McNulty plenty of input. Sampson just let him down.
That's dandy. I think we can all sleep well in the knowledge that John Conyers' original question has been answered satisfactorily by Gonzales. Who put the names of the 8 fired US attorneys on the list? As best as Gonzales can recall, a bunch of people who didn't know that's what they were doing.
More Abu: "Habeus corpus? Say what?"
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ZeD☼
Hi Jane!
But Comey’s list and the final list didn’t match, so even though they were consulted, there was no intention by those who made the final list to take their recommendations.
Zeded Title?
Consulted but not listened too
I am not pleased. Who decides who is called? Get Rove up there under oath. Depending on the pursuit, the questions, and who is doing the pursuing, I might change my mind. About being pleased, I mean.
This is the disappearing post. Teeheehee
Did anyone ask him if Rove and Cheney and Bush got CONSULTED?
where is everybody. I get the second ZED :)
SnarKassandra @ 8
We could have used you on the Committee.
Scarecrow @ 10
I think you have to be 30 for that.
Hi Snarkassandra. I missed most of the hearing but I am listening to it now online.
lolo @ 12
but you got the zed
Most of Gonzales’ appearance today was just white noise. Giving factual or even truthful answers wasn’t part of the game plan. Like so many others in this Administration when push comes to shove they either don’t remember or they make stuff up.
Democratic officials, speaking privately, said Pelosi had agreed to allow the vote on the withdrawal measure in the hope that her rank-and-file would then unite behind the funding bill.
Click for related content
Cheney defends longer deployments
Bush told war is harming GOP
Bush would veto new Iraq funding bill
But in an increasingly complex political environment, even that measure was deemed to be dead on arrival in the Senate, where Democrats hold a narrow advantage and the rules give Republicans leverage to block legislation.
Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev. has met privately in recent days with White House Chief of Staff Josh Bolten and Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the beginning of talks aimed at producing a compromise funding bill that the president would sign.
SnarKassandra @ 13
I got some earlier today and this one. This thread reappeared it went poof before Pach’s post.
SnarKassandra @ 8
IIRC Cohen asked if Bush and Cheney were involved. Abu replied that they weren’t. When asked how he knew this, he answered because he didn’t think they would be. When pressed further he admitted that he had no factual knowledge to support this.
Hugh @ 14
I don’t think they just make stuff up. I think wht they do is they surround a half-truth with conditionals so that it isn’t readily apparent that it is not the whole truth.
“I looked at the documents available to this committee”
They embed a truth between two lies or irrelevant half-truths. It’s all bullshit in the end.
The format doesn’t help.
Just like Condi in front of the 9/11 commission, Abu tries to run out the clock with the Dems
and then gets a breather from the Repubs,
(who apparently haven’t gotten the memo about the dangers of this kind of behavior).
Oh yuk
Christian, Mr Land on Tweety just said hed support a McCain/Leiberman independent bid!
rwcole @ 15
The problem I have with this kind of analysis is that ignores the fact that this is a spending bill, a must pass piece of legislation. The Senate can only seek to modify it. It can’t kill it because something has to pass.
Hi everyone-I couldn’t help but notice how similar, when Abu said (the President) “just wouldn’t do that” he sounded to Scotty McClellan saying Rove and Libby, et al, wouldn’t do that wrt the Plame leak. Same tone and everything.
OT-will there be a vote on the ’short leash’ bill tonight?
Jane and Everyone,
Thanks so much for keeping us posted today. I could sense everyone’s disappointment over the lack of answers on Gonzales’ part. And on the lack of tough questions. Someone earlier (Rayne?) said just keep calling him back to answer the same questions along with a homework assignment of getting the answers. I thought that was a good idea. I sure hope congress will not allow him to keep on giving them the finger. At least not without serious consequences.
The other thought I had, and I would need help on this, is that they’ve got him and are just allowing him to perjure himself further and further and further. That is a fun thought!
snowbird42 @ 20
If that ticket ever won… I think I’d have to kill myself.
What is Abu thinking? Or any of them? How long do they think they can hold back the tide?
They have to see that the train wreck is coming. I mean, they’re stupid but they’re not *that* stupid. Even if it’s not here till January 2009, they’ve got to know in their heart of hearts that they can’t keep up this charade forever. And when that train finally jumps those tracks, they’ve got to know it won’t be pretty, and they’ll be in some very deep doo-doo.
What do they think they’re gaining here? Besides (at most) an 18 month reprieve.
Does anyone see any longterm logic in all these shenanigans? What do these guys see as their longterm path out of the mess they’ve created for themselves?
This is not a rhetorical question – I’m just totally stumped by this one. Any ideas?
Hugh
Well the senate will draft their OWN bill- and then there will be a conference (if I understand the process properly.)
They don’t HAVE to pass a supplemental spending bill- if they don’t- then the funding stops.
I just received a fat advance for my derisive unauthorized biography of Karl Rove, in which it will be revealed that he was involved in a series of lobbyist invoicing improprieties. The working title:
“To Mock a Billing Turd”
/s
punaise @ 28
Ha ha ha ha ha!!!!
Loo Hoo @ 24
They didn’t even swear him in today. (I think I got that right.) Expecting Dems to grow a spine seems… unrealistic… I’d say.
I’m pondering if there were discussions regarding firing any of these US Atty’s BEFORE Gonzo became AG…while he was WH Counsellor? It would seem odd that he would NOT HAVE known about some of these complaints back then as he was the LEGAL advisor on Presidential power at that time. He was the guy that would have been responsible for making sure that the WH staff didn’t violate the Hatch Act, and thus HE would have been the one to make sure that any efforts to fire or request the resignations of USAG’s was not politically based.
curiousgeorge @ 26
I think they’re stilling trying to get a one-party country. Then everyone skates. And they get even richer.
curiousgeorge @ 26
Protecting Rove at all cost. …and Bush
snowbird42 @ 20
Fixed.
And say, wasn’t the fix in on those Oxycontin drug pushers. And the difference between them and the Colombian drug cartels is?????
Select from this list:
* They have a BushCo Ranger get-out-of-jail-free card?
* Hadassah is their lobbyist?
* They’re secretly resupplying Rush in the cigars he picks up in the Dominican?
* All of the above?
punaise @ 28
LOL!!!
Can any congressional committee call in Abu for a hearing that is not timed? How’s about we’re all going to sit here together until our questions are answered?
It’s a symptom of genuine panic that Clusterfuck mentioned “oil” a few days ago in the same sentence as Iraq. It will eventually become clear that we’re there for the fuckin oil and we need troops to “protect” it. We protect oil before Iraqis EVERY TIME. Then we may finally have the REAL debate about Iraq. It’s awkward- cause it won’t quite do to let the Iraqis know that we’re fightin over their oil.
curiousgeorge @ 26
They hope that a miracle will occur. That has worked for them so far.
punaise @ 28
elegant!
Solai #32. You’ve nailed it. They still think they can win the whole thing. Not the war-the US.
Move on has warned the dems that if they even LOOK like they’re compromisin with Clusterfuck- Move On will become their worst nightmare.
Touchy political problem eh what?
rwcole @ 37
rw, I think they’ve noticed.
The Bush administration has withheld a series of e-mails from Congress showing that senior White House and Justice Department officials worked together to conceal the role of Karl Rove in installing Timothy Griffin, a protg of Rove’s, as U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Arkansas.
http://news.nationaljournal.co…..510nj1.htm
noen @ 18
True, he also couldn’t remember some things one minute and the next was citing details of what he said he couldn’t recall. Gonzales also leaves stuff out like not mentioning his delegation of authority to Goodling and Sampson until it got leaked. I wish someone had asked him why he hadn’t talked about that in his previous Senate testimony and public statements. It is all such a dishonest performance on so many levels and this from the highest law officer in the land.
curiousgeorge @ 26
They think they can stall long enough until the public gets bored or the situation in Iraq changes or the next election cycle comes around. Odds are, they are probably right.
There is also an immense machine behind them, don’t forget that.
221 aye
205 no
curiousgeorge @ 26
This entire reasonable question rests upon the (unspoken) premise of free and fair elections in 2008 and of a peaceful and voluntary transfer of Presidential power after GOP defeat in the Electoral College.
And no martial law.
Those are my ideas. Sadly.
MSNBC – House just passed a bill to fund Iraq – half now – half in two months
Loo Hoo @ 36
That is something a teacher would do. AFTER school. UGH! It will work, especially on a nice day outside.
kdh22 @ 46
Are they going to vote on the ’short leash’ bill tonight?
Breaking News House Passes Bill To Fund WAr
for Half now Half later.
jayt @ 48
Is that good?
jayt @ 48
Well, that answers that.
replaying on cspan 2 right now
SnarKassandra @ 52
Not only good, great.
Yeah that’s good- but it apparently won’t make it through the senate- and the pres would veto it anyway.
KO’s stoked!
Responding to Maxine Waters today:
“Again, congresswoman, I’m, I’m, I’m not involved in making decisions about the documenta-, the documents to be provided or not provided.”
~El Generalissimo
From the Murray Waas story:
If this weren’t so consequential, I’d guess we are left somewhere between this question (posed by novelist Tom Robbins), and this one.
Tweety was in fine birdsong tonight with the Moonie pundit. Oooooh, oooooh, if we leave Iraq, what then, it’ll be total chaos, it’ll be worse…
If we don’t put leaving on the table, we never have the conversation about how to do it. Like say a multinational peacekeeping force.
Cause guess what, the whole world knew what Pol Pot was up to after Vietnam…the whole world had the opportunity to do something.
Or we can be like last night’s PBS show pointed out about the Muslim-Christian stalemate in Spain. 700 years toe to toe. Plenty of dying. Nobody gained another inch.
Maybe armageddon’s aftermath is the Big Boys coming back and saying okay, children, you refused to learn, we’re taking back our planet…. and you don’t get to come out in the universe.
rwcole @ 56
I love Nancy Pelosi
Olbermann is doing work tonight.
Fineman on MSNBC:
Like watching a supertanker turning around inch by inch. Bush has conceded the obvious. Bolton met with McConnell and Reid. Benchmark talk has been planned.
rwcole @ 27
The don’t have to is purely theoretical because then the troops really wouldn’t be funded and that would be political suicide. And yes this is definitely headed for a conference committee. It’s just that I saw the coverage of the original supplemental spun as if those who were writing the article were totally clueless about the legislative process. They kept making it sound like everything at each stage was make or break when it really wasn’t.
Bush purpose at this point. Leave troops in Iraq, run out the clock, and leave it to the Democrats.
jayt @ 48
Good for them.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 64
OKKiddo, I really think they plan to win in 2008.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 64
Absolutely, it’s what he’s done all his life: screwed up and left it to others to clean up his messes.
SnarKassandra @ 52
Well it won’t get past the Senate, or the veto crayon of the prez, but I like their style.
Reverse bargaining:
Seller: I need to sell this truck.
Buyer: I’ll give you $500
Seller: I need at least $750
Buyer: $400
Seller: $600?
Buyer: $300
Selller: okay let’s go back to the orignal. I’ll take your first offer of $500
Buyer: Offer is now $200 – wanna keep playing this game?
RonD @ 40
1) Invade Iran
2) Blowback allows for martial law in USA
3) State Of Emergency is declared, ShrubCo retains Executive Power unencumbered by elections.
Blackwater On Your Street Corners.
Simple, and will most likely, succeed.
Next Demo president should give John Dean a pardon.
John Dean on KO:
Symbolic republican meeting with Bush yesterday. Bush knew exactly what they were going to say ahead of time. I doubt if much fresh air came in. Bush knows he has to do something, and he is bargaining for all the time he can get.
HotFlash @ 66
No, they know the real truth by now!
Our buddy Rahm on the vote:
“And so the need for a political solution, and the Iraqi answer? We’re taking the summer off, going fishing. This bill says no way. You have got to be accountable for your country and get off the sidelines and get on to the playing field and take ownership of your country’s future.”
Gosh, maybe we should have noticed who owned Iraq before we decided to take over?
larue @ 69
I hope you are just completely paranoyed.
SnarKassandra @ 11 says:
Thirty for the Senate, Twenty-five for the House. Thirty-five for Preznit. that is, actual chronological age. As we all know, Little Boots is your age emotionally.
On the Senate floor today, Biden was advocating sending the 1st Iraq Accountability Act back to the shrub, “again, and again, and again, and again.” I get tired of listening to Joe easily (no? really?), but he explained his position and strategy so that anyone with 1/2 a brain could understand.
We’ll see how many Rs go come on board with this 50/50 bill. Prolly not enough to get over the hump, but some will cross the bridge.
It’s a long drawn-out process. Regardless of what some think, the Dems are doing everything within their limited power to achieve the stated goals. We all have to remember the legislative process isn’t a 30-minute sit-com (although sometimes it appears that way). Instant gratification is rarely achieved. And, when dealing with the current egregious events, the process will inevitably take much longer.
Lastly, keep the faith!
Anyone else caught that bit in the testimony about Debra Wong Yang, the former LA US Attorney, who accepted an outrageous $1.5 million signing bonus to leave her job to join the law firm representing Jerry Lewis (R-CA), who she just happened to be investigating? Queried about whether he found this troubling, Abu said “Not at all… any firm getting Ms. Yang’s services is lucky because of her outstanding abilities.”
Ummmm….. huh?
dakine01 @ 75
Thirty for the Senate, Twenty-five for the House. Thirty-five for Preznit. that is, actual chronological age. As we all know, Little Boots is your age emotionally.
Do not insult me! (please)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 70
I support this message.
dakine01 @ 75
Thirty for the Senate, Twenty-five for the House. Thirty-five for Preznit. that is, actual chronological age. As we all know, Little Boots is your age emotionally.
No way, Cassie beats The Decider by a mile.
Today’s scripted-for-the-Republicans Gonzalez hearing showed me that the Rubberstamp Republicans are still the Go-Along Republicans.
They’ll enable and spin and further the agenda of the Radical Republican cabal currently occupying the White House until it finally occurs to them they’re swimming in the same sewer of swill.
No matter what the issue — Iraq, Abu, environment, food supply, “war” on drugs — BRovushe corrupt and debase everything they touch.
BRING OUR TROOPS HOME
TO TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN.
jayt @ 68
I don’t know about the Senate. It will be interesting to see. As for Bush, each time he vetoes another bill to fund the troops more people see him and not the Congress as the problem. And the political pressure will be extreme on the White House to sign this bill if it gets to Bush in something like its present form.
The media like to talk about the dangers to Democrats if they don’t kowtow to Bush but the truth is that the costs to the Republicans are likely to be far higher and they know it.
OT~ But apparently much of the “evil acts” that demonstrated those arrested Ft. Dix terrorists weren’t acts done by the guys arrested…but by the planted FBI informant.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..t_dix_plot
HE was the one who “scouted out” Ft. Dix. [Q. Was HE the one who suggested and planned the attack on Ft. Dix, too?]
HE was the one that said he could obtain and was going to buy the automatic weapons and rocket launchers…the other guys asked “aren’t those illegal”?
HE claimed that he had the experience to plan the attacks…the others said that, given his background, he should be the leader!
” One of the men, Tatar, called a Philadelphia police officer in November, saying that he had been approached by someone who was pressuring him to obtain a map of Fort Dix, and that he feared the incident was terrorist-related, according to court documents.”
Heck…maybe the FBI should have planted a guy that said he had access to a nuke that could destroy the Universe…that would have made even a more spectacular story. “Islamic Terrorsists plotting to destroy Universe! About to obtain ‘Secret’ weapon from arms dealer! Stopped in the nick of time!”
If Pach or Mutant Poodle is lurking, can one of you email me please?
Larue … you miss the real message I think. W does not need to stay in the WH if the same thinking pervades DC … martial law tends to upset people but keeping americans comfortable while they go about their plans keeps it all from getting too messy …
I’m hoping that there’s a miracle and it does make it through the senate. And if the pres vetoes it I think he’ll drop below 25% approval. There is NO justification for a veto. It would just magnify how stubborn and unreasonable he is. And petulant and stubborn and pig-headed and spoiled rotten and most importantly ‘the one who is denying funding to our troops.’
Blub @ 77
Abu is a loyal Bushie. He wouldn’t know ethics if it kicked him.
SnarKassandra @ 78
Do not insult me! (please)
Sorry! I should have qualified that as you are far more mature emotionally and intellectually than Little Boots.
Siun @ 73
Bushie’s going fishin’–guess they thought they could do the same… Maybe Bush and the Congress should all give up their vacations and junkets and August recess and every other cushy creature comfort of their pampered lives and get busy making a common sense plan to
BRING OUR TROOPS HOME.
’bout time we demand the Congress take care of our own. The troops deserve better.
Larue #69, the problem with that scenario is that we can’t invade Iran-we don’t have enough troops. The ten divisions of the active-duty Army are fully engaged, and the Guard and Reserves are stretched to the limit. We can only wage an air campaign, but having said that, remember Iran-Contra?IIRC, Ollie North had a plan put together to do just what you’ve suggested(if they deemed it necessary). I agree with SnarKassandra. I would like to hope that avenue of thought is paranoia-but hey! It’s not paranoia if they really are out to get you, is it?
SnarKassandra @ 74
Me too. But I’m worried.
cinnamonape @ 83
The more things change, the more they remain the same. FBI used to pull that same cr*p back in the sixties/seventies.
dakine01 @ 75
Thirty for the Senate, Twenty-five for the House. Thirty-five for Preznit. that is, actual chronological age. As we all know, Little Boots is your age emotionally.
Don’t insult Cassie. He’s under 12 if he’s a day.
RonD @ 90
What about the mercs? They’re always up for a covert mission and/or catalyst event.
I’m liking Olbermann particularly tonight. Batiste, Dean, etc.
Prairie Sunshine @ 89
Nah. I would much rather the shrubbies just take a long extended vacation, until January 2009…. Meanwhile, Congress can end the war and reverse shrub’s six year campaign to subvert the constitution and destroy the republic.
Batiste: I have no ties to the defense industry so I can speak honestly. I’m speaking out. RIGHT ON and ROGER THAT!!!
Cinnamonape – great catch on the “terrorist” story – thank you!
The line:
Also, one of the men, Tatar, called a Philadelphia police officer in November, saying that he had been approached by someone who was pressuring him to obtain a map of Fort Dix, and that he feared the incident was terrorist-related, according to court documents.
sorta messes with the picture, eh?
I find Rahm very distasteful.
kdh22 #94, you are of course correct. Frightening.
RonD – the plans for Iran that seem to be in play are for sustained carpet bombing not for troops on the ground. Would that work … nope but it would make W feel manly.
Will the troops/military familys/vets listen to Batiste?
At the end of today’s hearing, when Conyers told him to provide documents, and Gonzales said he would take the request back, who was he going to take the request back TO? Cuz it sounded like he was tellig Conyers to Cheney himself.
Also – How in the hell could he know all the people who didn’t put names on the list of the 8 USAs without knowing who did?
Siun @ 101
Wouldn’t it be cheaper just to prescribe him some V*agra?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 99
He’s a fox in the hens house…and that’s putting it kindly.
Siun @ 101
Hear! Hear! And that’s what it’s all about anyway, isn’t it? Shrub with the big ba**s.
Hugh @ 104
Think of the children!
blerghFern @ 103
Well as Wexler pointed out it’s because he does know.
RonD @ 100
That’s why I lose sleep at night. 126,000 in Iraq. Yeah, right! More for sure. And, then all the other proteges in the wings.
kdh22 @ 94
Well, if they go into Iran, maybe they will all be too busy to invade Canada.
SnarKassandra @ 74
Brother, can you spare a noyed?
I abhor what the Israeli government, with the U.S. government’s tacit approval has, and is doing, to the Palestinian people.
Fern @ 110
I think that’s a safe bet.
dakine01 # is all over it-the FBI did used to do all sorts of things like that. COINTELPRO, wasn’t it? When they tried to accuse the VVAW of essentially terrorist-type actions, IIRC, didn’t it turn out that all of the most radical VVAW leaders were FBI agents provocateurs?
It is PARANOIA & PARANOID and not PARANOYA & PARANOYED. Ooops.
Where are the former prosecutors in Congress? Why aren’t they doing something of the questioning here? Every time Gonzalez gives a non-answer they should be slamming him for non-responsiveness. Over and over, are you refusing to answer the question, Mr. Attorney General. The question calls for a yes or no answer Mr. Attorney General. Not, I believe or as far as I can recall. This frustrates me beyond measure because it looks to me like he’s going to skate. Maybe I need more patience.
I just want to know, when does Gonzo get abducted off the streets by the FBI for a hot and sweaty interrogation without a lawyer present?
If it’s good enough for the person on the street to go through, it’s good enough for him.
Can someone explain why it was right to take Palestinian land away from the Palestinians in 1948, but not give the Palestinians a homeland today?
Phule @ 117
At Gitmo?
Phule @ 117
Will that be on CSpan3?
Phule @ 117
The moment he turns on his boss, and he knows it too…
Ian @ 116
They should have been putting in the box of which is it? Are you dishonest or incompetent?
Had to leave the blog/hearing around 12 going back through comments.
This one is great!
RWCOLE “Have you ever been with the president when one or both of you were not wearing trousers?”
RonD @ 114
Naw, I was just like everyone else, watching it all come out in the news. Back when the corporate owned media actually reported the bad acts of the administration.
AP – Attorney General Alberto Gonzales confidently deflected House Democrats’ demands Thursday for details in the firings of U.S. attorneys, appearing ever more likely to survive accusations that the dismissals were politically motivated.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 118
You know the answer to that. But, it’s not a legitmate justification, that’s for sure.
Kathleen @ 123
are shorts the same as trousers? :) :)
Ian @ 116
Most of the former prosecutors on the dem side today were asking questions in that fashion. But they only had five minutes per to ask and abu has perfected the art of obfuscation and mis-direction.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 125
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA ~ THX, I NEEDED THAT!
and this:
RWCOLE “Have you ever been with the president when one or both of you were not wearing trousers?”
and KO tonight…SMOKIN’
KO is killin’ me wrt the split screen Abu testimonies. Tehehehe!
There IS some evidence that the last Clusterfuck veto may have caused his rock bottom JAR to sink a bit lower. Assuming that’s true- it may be that further vetoes will continue the process of total destruction.
Does that matter? Well probably–Goopers are already willing to cross his impulsiveness when it suits em. Further erosion could cause them to ignore him altogether.
Siun @ 98
Yeah…did the Feds tell the Philly cop to back off? Here we have a bunch of guys from the war zones of Bosnia who go to a legally licensed gun range…that allows them to fire semi-automatic weapons. The guys say the Arabic equivalent of “H0T DAMN!” [Allahu Akbar] and want their CD copied…it’s not clear that there is any diatribe on it about the US or attacking Ft. Dix or anything else at that point. THEN the FBI plants, not just one, but several moles and informants (of 10 members of the group 4 were NOT arrested). So it will be interesting to parse out just which of these plants were actually making the statement, plans or undertaking the actions that the Government is charging the OTHERS with!
Glenn Greenwald
sparringtoying with Joe Klein – it’s just not a fair match-up.kdh22 @ 130
That was brilliant! (and infuriating)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 125
The media are spinning like crazy, Iraq, Abu, you name it. Anything for our 28% wonder.
punaise @ 133
Joke Line is unarmed in a battle of wits with Greenwald. Hell, Joke Line would be unarmed in a battle of wits with SnarKassandra. Or me even.
Since Gonzo doesn’t believe habus is an enshrined right for others…why should he receive the benefit of having it at all? What’s stopping some enterprising officials with Congress’s blessing from getting the truth out of GG and Monica and the others using the very powers that these administration shills have oh so loudly defended?
It’s not like they can complain about it, no can they?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 125
Is the AP insane? just the one answer in this clip is enough for me to see that it’s the same old “nothing to see here, let me just blather a bit more and get to the next repub who will give me a free pass and a pat on the back”. Excellent liveblogging today, so many thanks for it.
Can’t be here much right now but look forward to reentering in a big way soon. I’m an “oldie” from the original leak case days 18 months ago (Wow), for those who don’t know me and the liveblog days are great ones here at the Lake.
Hi siun, if you’re still here.
Abu [In todays opening statement]: “I did not ask these people to resign for improper political gain. I did not do that, nor would I.”
I wonder what he considers PROPER political gains within the DOJ to be????
Zenn!!! So good to see you!
Was speaking of you just a few days ago with a mutual friend.
Shoot me an email and let me know what’s up.
dakine01 @ 136
Poor Cassie! You’re earnin’ your keep around here. Don’t take it personally. That which doesn’t kill ya will make ya stronger, young one. We appreciate (read: envy) your youthfulness!
I will not be cranky tonight. But…
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t…..774532.ece
no comment
cinnamonape @ 139
Properness is relative, like so many things in life. He wouldn’t know proper if it slapped him upside his head!
We need young people to help us carry the water. The young who know the score are seemingly rare.
Siun @ 143
US Marine ’shot dead Iraqis who had their hands up’
Tim Reid
A US Marine yesterday told a court investigating an alleged massacre in the Iraqi town of Haditha that he watched a superior officer shoot and kill five civilians as they held their hands up in an attempt to surrender.
Sergeant Sanick Dela Cruz, testifying after being given immunity from prosecution, admitted lying about events in Haditha in November 2005, and said that he urinated on the head of one of the 24 Iraqi civilians killed by his unit.
The Haditha killings have prompted the biggest US criminal case involving civilian deaths in Iraq. Seven US Marines face charges, including three who have been charged with murder.
Four have been accused of trying to cover up the incident, including Captain Randy Stone, who was sent to Iraq only weeks before the killings. His lawyer claims that Captain Stone did nothing wrong because Marines throughout the command chain knew about the killings but agreed not to order an investigation because the deaths were deemed to have been lawful.
Sergeant Dela Cruz was charged initially with murder but the prosecution dropped the case after he agreed to testify against members of his former unit.
At a pre-trial hearing in Camp Pendleton, California, he said that he watched how his squad leader, Staff Sergeant Frank Wuterich, shot five Iraqis who were trying to surrender and then told his men to lie about the killings.
“He [Seargeant Wuterich] told me that if anybody asked, they were running away and the Iraqi Army shot them,” Sergeant Dela Cruz said.
Siun @ 98
Far out!
rwcole says
May 10th, 2007 at 5:35 pm
Further erosion could cause them to ignore him altogether.
I already do.
okay – I *try* to.
Goddammit – he’s on the effin teevee every damn day! He’s omnipresent and cannot be ignored.
I try to keep calm via the
hoperealization that after Jan of 2009, no one will ever again have to pay him any attention whatsoever.Oklahoma kiddo @ 145
Definitely agree. My water-hauling days have long passed. Ahhh, the memories!
nobody could have predicted that the usa’s would have been fired
noen @ 18
I agree. The language is very careful; they imply ‘no’ but don’t actually say it.
RonD @ 22
Yup. Same Coach.
kdh22 @ 149
You should help sponsor the young dem groups on college and HS campuses. Sometimes we can’t all go to a protest together because we don’t have enough adult drivers or enough money to get a school bus on a saturday.
kdh22 @ 106
Except that it would be a clarion call for the SCIRI militias and Badr’s Mahdiu Army to unite and go “ape Shiite” against each and every US soldier and Marine in IRAQ! There would be massive riots, a collapse of the government, and utter anarchy in Iraq.
Bush would prove once again that he “is a UNITER not a DIVIDER” by uniting these factions against us!
The GOOD NEWS is that whatever remains of the US military would likely be out of Iraq by the end of the year.
@151
Are we talking about he whom we cannot mention by name?
Hey. siun, good to see you too, sweetie, will do but after Sat, OK? I’m writing and officiating at the wedding of my best friend’s daughter and I’m about ready to scream. If anyone has a great love poem or essay about marriage, I’m all ears. (my name at gmail) I have been an RN for 26 years and this is more responsibility than anything I have experienced in my career! But such an honor!!!!
Anyway, just so grateful to know that the progressive wheels are rolling along here, I’ve missed everyone a lot.
How is it a person like Alan Johnston can be kidnapped for 8 weeks without a trace but a slime like Abu gets a free ride? I can’t understand things like that.
zennurse… ;0)
If we really should be worried about this, then now is the time to plan how to defeat this scenario.
kdh22 @ 141 says:
I’m not pickin’ on Cassie, honest! She’s our future and dog love her and take care of her, we need more of her type around.
Blub @ 121
I can imagine the waterboarding now:
Interrogator dunking AGAG: What do you remember about the firings?
AGAG: It was Rove. He did it.
I: Not the right answer. dunk dunk dunk
AGAG: Alright alright, I give in. I can’t remember anything.
I: There ya go. See, it wasn’t that hard to forget. Now go tell Congress you can’t remember anything.
SnarKassandra @ 152
I am raising a water-carrier-in-training. We have been dipping into those activities recently. Hard to find young ones around here who haven’t been brainwashed by the evil opposition. But we keep tryin’.
RonD @ 114
And they continued to use the tactic:
When the FBI set up Dave Foreman and other EarthFirst!ers: An FBI provacateur infiltrated the group and vigorously pushed vandalism of a powerline pylon. All the EarthFirst! ‘ers were arrested:
When Judi Bari and Darryl Cherney were set up for the bomb which exploded in Bari’s car in 1990. While the two were in Oakland, CA…where the local PD had illegally investigated EarthFirst! for years. And the Oakland PD obligingly charged Bari and Cherney with the bombing. The Alameda County DA wouldn’t file charges; Bari/Cheney sued the FBI and Oakland PD in Federal Court.
The jury awarded the pair 4.4 million against four FBI “lawmen” and three Oakland PD officers.
The FBI and Oakland settled for 2 million each.
The bombers are still free.
And COINTELPRO – under whatever name – is very much alive, malign, and well.
dakine01 @ 158
I’m not pickin’ on Cassie, honest! She’s our future and dog love her and take care of her, we need more of her type around.
I know you’re not. I don’t want her to think you are. She’s a precious treasure here. Aunt Betsy’s pretty cool too!
WTF? Why did I just have to see a Mitt Romney for Preznit commercial where he brags about all the vetos he issued as Governor? THAT’S supposed to make him a great leader? Give. Me. A. F*ckin’. Break.
SnarKassandra @ 152
Yes. We don’t have to invent politically active young people, they are doing that themselves. We just need to find out what they need. Wheels, check.
zennurse @ 138
Hi zennurse. Great to see you here!
solai @ 91
Me too. But I’m worried.
Me too. It’s really bothering me. Wonder if there’s any way we can suggest to congress that it investigate Blackwater without sounding totally paranoid.
If you can get to KO now…Family guy talks politics
laurie9 @ 157
That’s what we’re doing here. PEACE!
OKKIddo@118
No, no one can explain it.
My 8th grade SS teacher had a zillion speakers come in. People came to talk about the issues we were learning about and the countries and even stuff like protests. Aunt Betsy brought in the SGT jacket from my great uncle from world war II.
You folks who were in the protests in the 70’s could go to middle schools or high schools and teach kids about them.
This year would have been MUCH cooler if we had more speakers and less videos.
dakine01 @ 163
Well…it would make him a great TYRANT…obstructing the will of the majority! In fact, I wonder how many of those were actually overridden by supermajorities of the Massachusetts legislature?
Another L’il Boots?
Meant to post about this a long time ago, but my work schedule got in the way. Still, some of the “good guys” could use some help, so, better late than never…
Scott’s sues eco-friendly startup
IMO, every time people see those crazy Mitt eyes and that wax museum look about him, they’ll get chills and not really know why.
I see a Rasmussen report from April that says he was at 12% then.
cinnamonape @ 170
Maybe he could be installed as the 21st century Iraq tyrant? You know, like what Sadaam was to the 20th century.
SnarKassandra @ 169
Interesting. How does one get a speaking gig at a school? Through a student? Teacher? Send a letter to the admint or school board? Are speakers ‘checked out’ or censored?
gonzo is so nervous and so anxious…he probably believes what he is saying…what a joke…RFK must be rolling in his grave
cinnamonape @ 170
It was on MSNBC so I don’t know if it was a national buy or not. But it must have been a national run as Texas primaries are not too high up in the schedule I don’t believe.
I don’t think he’s another lil boots. More like a dubya’s daddy type. Ghouliani on the other hand has those “unitary executive” fantasies exacerbated by some competence.
This may have been one of many Gotcha’s today but I think that they caught Abu in a trap today. Nader asked him the following with regard to Monica. “She was worried that her testimony would implicate her in a crime. Do you know what crime she might have been worried about being implicated in?” To which Abu replies that he doesn’t know. Nadar smiles, says right, so you don’t know. and goes on.
The way I read this is they have something from Monica and that she will testify that Abu knows about it.
Gotcha.
Let’s hope!
laurie9 @ 157
I am really worried about this. I also know that it’s a bit ‘out there’. But if you look at the changes BushCo. has put in place, a pattern begins to emerge.
-easier to declare martial (the lawyers need to explain this)
-Blackwater
-Contracts to have detention centers built
-No more pesky Habeus Corpus to worry about
-Politicizing EVERY dept. in the govt. to gear up for another dishonest election
-Falcon I,II and III which involved massive sweeps that arrested thousands. (a practice run?)
And, to answer your question, I don’t know what to do other than alert people.
realworld @ 177
I think Nadler, Maxine Waters, Wexler, Davis of AL, and Schiff all laid some subtle traps for Abu today.
Or I may be an idiot.
New Thread
watertiger is upstairs
HotFlash @ 174
I dunno. Call a school and ask for a social studies teacher.
Jane, Christy or anyone.. Where can I find the list of the complete names of the Freshman who voted nay on H.R, 2237. Is the Wilson on the list Charlie Wilson from Ohio? I went to his website and could not find how he had voted.
This is the guy who took our dear Congressman Strickland spot when Strickland ran and won Ohio Governor. Wilson ran on the basis that he would follow in Stricklands foot steps. Does not appear to be so?
1,511 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen oklahoma kiddo and kdh22:
“we need young people to help[ us carry the water…my water haulin’ days have long passed.”
The kids today are far more understandin’ of what is goin on than any of you folks seem ta understand. We boomers have the responsibility to LEAD them to the well, trust me, if they hear us call and we’re willin’ ta put our asses on the line, they will haul a lot more’n water into the street. I have a son who is 34 years old and a high school English teacher, a 22 year old daughter who will be a high school math teacher next year and a 19 year old daughter who is workin’ to be a clinical psychologist ta take care of folks in the aftermath of this insane war. I made a promise to my 34 year old when he was 9 months old that he would never be asked to deal with the criminal horror I was lucky enough to survive. And my daughters have grown up understanding just how we got into the mess in Vietnam and why we are in Iraq (oil). All three of ‘em will hit the streets if us old folks who created the mess show the balls ta take responsibility for our actions or inaction’s.
Don’t put this on the younger generation…we have created this mess and have poisoned the world that these kidz will hafta save. They can not be asked ta put themselves into the line of fire if we’re not willing to lead them!!
We have had enough equivocating, enough rationalizing, enough furrow-wrinkling and enough passin’ the buck…step up baby-boomers, it is our responsibility to lead the children!!
KEEP THE FAITH, IT IS TIME TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY!!
here you go Kathleen…this might help
Eureka Springs @ 185
Thanks so much
solai @ 178
I find video helps see what could be “The Future”: Shattered Union …and I said ‘could’.
who knew, brown coup
solai at 178
Think about what to do if such a thing should happen. Read up on what other people have done in similar situations — Amer Revolution, for instance, invasions of Poland, Hungary, Tibet or Iraq. Anything useful there? People can push back. Plan what you would do if BlackH2O showed up in your town and your Toobz stopped working or were censored or monitored. Decide what resources — stuff, books,contact info, instruction manuals — you would wish you had gotten when you could have. And get them now. And then forget about it as much as possible, continue on with life. It’s not that it’s all that likely, but in risk mgmt you factor liklihood x impact, so a 95% bad thing that has a 5% chance of happening is gets taken as seriously as a 5% bad thing that has a 95% chance of happening.
Prairie Sunshine @ 89
At least the Congress should skip its recess this year, given Bush’s propensity for appalling recess appointments.
Hey, let’s stop pickin’ on Cassie! She’s got more brains than I did at her age. I respect her greatly for coming here, so be nice to the up-and-coming bright ones who will be taking over for us oldsters one day.
Thanks for posting Cass. I’ve visited your site, and even commented once (hope I met the age limit).
And stock up on tinfoil, of course.
Cassie’s got more sense than I had at any aage.
itwasntme @ 191
It is the bloggers that are limited to 12-21. Visitors and subscribers can be any age.
HotFlash @ 189
It’s like getting ready for hurricane season…only way more important. Can I suggest gold and silver coins? *wink
OK, thanks Cassie.
laurie9 @ 157
I’m game, but how? Congress’s law-making capability is crippled by its Republican members.
HotFlash @ 192
Tinfoil doesn’t help. Gotta go titanium or better. *grin
NorskeFlamethrower @ 184
You “boomers” have to carry the torch for a few more years before I take over, but I get your drift. I’m not a boomer, but grew up with a couple of ‘em. My association with your generation molded my current mindset. I will do my best to keep the flame alive once it’s passed to me and groom the next generation. I work with several youngsters on the brink of understanding their responsibility. I impart as much knowledge and experience that I can when I’m around them. Influence is earned, I’ve learned. Teaching them has been very rewarding, so I don’t do a hard sell on them cuz they pick up on that and it reminds them of their parents’ pressure. And, most of them are very smart and receptive.
spurious @ 197
The best thing is to stay informed and clear headed. Observe/pay attention/build connections outside the net/act when it FEELS right!
dam it’s hard getting behind yous guys reading lvl :)
no comments yet
imma gonna free float here 4 a bit
lmao EUP’d
dakine01 @ 163
Did some quick research. Mitt has almost set a record as being one of the most OVERRIDEN Governors in history!
He’s vetoed stuff like Stem Cell Research, Mininum Wage, Emergency Contraception for Rape Victims, Needle Replacement for Drug Addicts, $$$ for Blind Work Programs, School Breakfast Supplements, Special Olympics, Handicapped Work Programs, HIV/AIDs Prevention Programs, and many others. The good legislature of Massachusetts has repeatedly overridden his actions by 2/3rds supermajorities in both their Senate and House. Some of those overrides were by 37-0 in the Senate; and 39-16 in the House!
http://www.democrats.org/a/200…..romney.php
http://www.massscorecard.org/MA-Senate_votes.htm
How any of this indicates that Romney is anything but a extremist obstructionist is beyond me???
spurious @ 190
HAR! Like THAT would ever happen. Why don’t you ask them to give up their parking spaces & free postage while you’re at it?
[feeling particularly gnarly towards our Congress pooches after today’s poodle show]
HotFlash @ 189
Should Americans ever need to defend against unconstitutional overthrow of lawful domestic power by foreign mercenaries, they would find the techniques in Ecodefense most valuable.
As I believe no enemy of our democracy would ever (again) be so foolish as to usurp Federal power through unconstitutional means, I offer the reference for anyone considering writing speculative fiction about Americans’ capacity to resist and disrupt occupying military forces on American soil.
An unimaginable situation, to be sure.
Rep Cannon “urinate on the President’s leg”
I second that
Now I am convinced that the only way these thugs will ever understand concepts like habeas corpus and the rule of law is to strip them of such rights. We must do to them what they are trying to do to us. I promise that their memories will improve dramatically and they’ll get a whole lot more passionate about the Constitution. Yes, it’s just a piece of paper. I can’t wait until Abu and Dubya cry out for its protection.
One of the things we can do to protect ourselves from a complete takeover is to educate ourselves and everyone we know on the bullshi* that is the bird flu scare.
It’s either that virus or some other little bioweapon that will be released that will open the door for a public health emergency, quarantines, and Blackwater in the streets.
People need to understand how viruses mutate and get out, what is a natural virus and what is something that just shouldn’t be here, how passages through hosts increase the pathogenicity of a virus .
We are being set up. We have an idiot embarrassing us throughout the world, a bunch of criminals looting the treasury, and 28% of the country are OK with all of this.
And in the 60s the saying was “Even paranoid people have enemies,” updated to “Only the paranoid people are paying attention.”
I’m paying such close attention I don’t even trust myself anymore.
How could they NOT swear in a proven liar and prevaricator. I would not believe him if he told me that the White House was in the District of Columbia. And with few exceptions, the Democrats asked some very wimpy, softball questions and then allowed the Republicans to insult and attack them. Thank God for Maxine Waters. She has more testosterone than the whole panel. What a joke.