Login HereAt the opening of this morning's hearing, John Conyers had one main question he put to Alberto Gonzales -- who put the names of the 8 US attorneys on thefiring list? It was a question others repeated throughout the day and over and over again, Gonzales claimed that it was a "collaborative" recommendation made by career Justice Department officials. In response to questioning by Rep. Cohen, Gonzales claimed that neither Bush, Cheney, Rove nor Harriet Miers put their names on the list, not based on any specific information but just because he knows they wouldn't do something like that.
Right-o.
So who were those were "consulted?" From Paul Kiel:
Under questioning by Rep. Hank Johnson (D-GA), Gonzales cited Kyle Sampson's consultation of then-Deputy Attorney General James Comey in early of 2005 as proof that there had been a process of consulting career Justice Department officials on their views of U.S. attorneys. Of course, Comey testified last week that he had not known that there was any sort of effort to target U.S. attorneys for removal when he offered his views to Sampson (views that Sampson totally ignored).
Gonzales admitted as much: "There were people that were being consulted... they may not have known they were providing information that would then form the basis of some kind of list."
So there you have it: Comey was part of a collaborative review process that he didn't know he was a part of.
Gonzales gave much the same response to questions about Paul McNulty:
Later in the hearing, Rep. Linda Sanchez (D-CA) questioned Gonzales about Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty's comment to a fired U.S. attorney that McNulty had had "limited input" in the process. And here Gonzales said that "it was my understanding or belief" that Sampson was giving McNulty plenty of input. Sampson just let him down.
That's dandy. I think we can all sleep well in the knowledge that John Conyers' original question has been answered satisfactorily by Gonzales. Who put the names of the 8 fired US attorneys on the list? As best as Gonzales can recall, a bunch of people who didn't know that's what they were doing.
More Abu: "Habeus corpus? Say what?"
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ZeD☼
Hi Jane!
But Comey’s list and the final list didn’t match, so even though they were consulted, there was no intention by those who made the final list to take their recommendations.
Zeded Title?
Consulted but not listened too
I am not pleased. Who decides who is called? Get Rove up there under oath. Depending on the pursuit, the questions, and who is doing the pursuing, I might change my mind. About being pleased, I mean.
This is the disappearing post. Teeheehee
Did anyone ask him if Rove and Cheney and Bush got CONSULTED?
where is everybody. I get the second ZED :)
SnarKassandra @ 8
We could have used you on the Committee.
Scarecrow @ 10
I think you have to be 30 for that.
Hi Snarkassandra. I missed most of the hearing but I am listening to it now online.
lolo @ 12
but you got the zed
Most of Gonzales’ appearance today was just white noise. Giving factual or even truthful answers wasn’t part of the game plan. Like so many others in this Administration when push comes to shove they either don’t remember or they make stuff up.
Democratic officials, speaking privately, said Pelosi had agreed to allow the vote on the withdrawal measure in the hope that her rank-and-file would then unite behind the funding bill.
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But in an increasingly complex political environment, even that measure was deemed to be dead on arrival in the Senate, where Democrats hold a narrow advantage and the rules give Republicans leverage to block legislation.
Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev. has met privately in recent days with White House Chief of Staff Josh Bolten and Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the beginning of talks aimed at producing a compromise funding bill that the president would sign.
SnarKassandra @ 13
I got some earlier today and this one. This thread reappeared it went poof before Pach’s post.
SnarKassandra @ 8
IIRC Cohen asked if Bush and Cheney were involved. Abu replied that they weren’t. When asked how he knew this, he answered because he didn’t think they would be. When pressed further he admitted that he had no factual knowledge to support this.
Hugh @ 14
I don’t think they just make stuff up. I think wht they do is they surround a half-truth with conditionals so that it isn’t readily apparent that it is not the whole truth.
“I looked at the documents available to this committee”
They embed a truth between two lies or irrelevant half-truths. It’s all bullshit in the end.
The format doesn’t help.
Just like Condi in front of the 9/11 commission, Abu tries to run out the clock with the Dems
and then gets a breather from the Repubs,
(who apparently haven’t gotten the memo about the dangers of this kind of behavior).
Oh yuk
Christian, Mr Land on Tweety just said hed support a McCain/Leiberman independent bid!
rwcole @ 15
The problem I have with this kind of analysis is that ignores the fact that this is a spending bill, a must pass piece of legislation. The Senate can only seek to modify it. It can’t kill it because something has to pass.
Hi everyone-I couldn’t help but notice how similar, when Abu said (the President) “just wouldn’t do that” he sounded to Scotty McClellan saying Rove and Libby, et al, wouldn’t do that wrt the Plame leak. Same tone and everything.
OT-will there be a vote on the ’short leash’ bill tonight?
Jane and Everyone,
Thanks so much for keeping us posted today. I could sense everyone’s disappointment over the lack of answers on Gonzales’ part. And on the lack of tough questions. Someone earlier (Rayne?) said just keep calling him back to answer the same questions along with a homework assignment of getting the answers. I thought that was a good idea. I sure hope congress will not allow him to keep on giving them the finger. At least not without serious consequences.
The other thought I had, and I would need help on this, is that they’ve got him and are just allowing him to perjure himself further and further and further. That is a fun thought!
snowbird42 @ 20
If that ticket ever won… I think I’d have to kill myself.
What is Abu thinking? Or any of them? How long do they think they can hold back the tide?
They have to see that the train wreck is coming. I mean, they’re stupid but they’re not *that* stupid. Even if it’s not here till January 2009, they’ve got to know in their heart of hearts that they can’t keep up this charade forever. And when that train finally jumps those tracks, they’ve got to know it won’t be pretty, and they’ll be in some very deep doo-doo.
What do they think they’re gaining here? Besides (at most) an 18 month reprieve.
Does anyone see any longterm logic in all these shenanigans? What do these guys see as their longterm path out of the mess they’ve created for themselves?
This is not a rhetorical question - I’m just totally stumped by this one. Any ideas?
Hugh
Well the senate will draft their OWN bill- and then there will be a conference (if I understand the process properly.)
They don’t HAVE to pass a supplemental spending bill- if they don’t- then the funding stops.
I just received a fat advance for my derisive unauthorized biography of Karl Rove, in which it will be revealed that he was involved in a series of lobbyist invoicing improprieties. The working title:
“To Mock a Billing Turd”
/s
punaise @ 28
Ha ha ha ha ha!!!!
Loo Hoo @ 24
They didn’t even swear him in today. (I think I got that right.) Expecting Dems to grow a spine seems… unrealistic… I’d say.
I’m pondering if there were discussions regarding firing any of these US Atty’s BEFORE Gonzo became AG…while he was WH Counsellor? It would seem odd that he would NOT HAVE known about some of these complaints back then as he was the LEGAL advisor on Presidential power at that time. He was the guy that would have been responsible for making sure that the WH staff didn’t violate the Hatch Act, and thus HE would have been the one to make sure that any efforts to fire or request the resignations of USAG’s was not politically based.
curiousgeorge @ 26
I think they’re stilling trying to get a one-party country. Then everyone skates. And they get even richer.
curiousgeorge @ 26
Protecting Rove at all cost. …and Bush
snowbird42 @ 20
Fixed.
And say, wasn’t the fix in on those Oxycontin drug pushers. And the difference between them and the Colombian drug cartels is?????
Select from this list:
* They have a BushCo Ranger get-out-of-jail-free card?
* Hadassah is their lobbyist?
* They’re secretly resupplying Rush in the cigars he picks up in the Dominican?
* All of the above?
punaise @ 28
LOL!!!
Can any congressional committee call in Abu for a hearing that is not timed? How’s about we’re all going to sit here together until our questions are answered?
It’s a symptom of genuine panic that Clusterfuck mentioned “oil” a few days ago in the same sentence as Iraq. It will eventually become clear that we’re there for the fuckin oil and we need troops to “protect” it. We protect oil before Iraqis EVERY TIME. Then we may finally have the REAL debate about Iraq. It’s awkward- cause it won’t quite do to let the Iraqis know that we’re fightin over their oil.
curiousgeorge @ 26
They hope that a miracle will occur. That has worked for them so far.
punaise @ 28
elegant!
Solai #32. You’ve nailed it. They still think they can win the whole thing. Not the war-the US.
Move on has warned the dems that if they even LOOK like they’re compromisin with Clusterfuck- Move On will become their worst nightmare.
Touchy political problem eh what?
rwcole @ 37
rw, I think they’ve noticed.
The Bush administration has withheld a series of e-mails from Congress showing that senior White House and Justice Department officials worked together to conceal the role of Karl Rove in installing Timothy Griffin, a protg of Rove’s, as U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Arkansas.
http://news.nationaljournal.co.....510nj1.htm
noen @ 18
True, he also couldn’t remember some things one minute and the next was citing details of what he said he couldn’t recall. Gonzales also leaves stuff out like not mentioning his delegation of authority to Goodling and Sampson until it got leaked. I wish someone had asked him why he hadn’t talked about that in his previous Senate testimony and public statements. It is all such a dishonest performance on so many levels and this from the highest law officer in the land.
curiousgeorge @ 26
They think they can stall long enough until the public gets bored or the situation in Iraq changes or the next election cycle comes around. Odds are, they are probably right.
There is also an immense machine behind them, don’t forget that.
221 aye
205 no
curiousgeorge @ 26
This entire reasonable question rests upon the (unspoken) premise of free and fair elections in 2008 and of a peaceful and voluntary transfer of Presidential power after GOP defeat in the Electoral College.
And no martial law.
Those are my ideas. Sadly.
MSNBC - House just passed a bill to fund Iraq - half now - half in two months
Loo Hoo @ 36
That is something a teacher would do. AFTER school. UGH! It will work, especially on a nice day outside.
kdh22 @ 46
Are they going to vote on the ’short leash’ bill tonight?
Breaking News House Passes Bill To Fund WAr
for Half now Half later.
jayt @ 48
Is that good?
jayt @ 48
Well, that answers that.
replaying on cspan 2 right now
SnarKassandra @ 52
Not only good, great.
Yeah that’s good- but it apparently won’t make it through the senate- and the pres would veto it anyway.
KO’s stoked!
Responding to Maxine Waters today:
“Again, congresswoman, I’m, I’m, I’m not involved in making decisions about the documenta-, the documents to be provided or not provided.”
~El Generalissimo
From the Murray Waas story:
If this weren’t so consequential, I’d guess we are left somewhere between this question (posed by novelist Tom Robbins), and this one.
Tweety was in fine birdsong tonight with the Moonie pundit. Oooooh, oooooh, if we leave Iraq, what then, it’ll be total chaos, it’ll be worse…
If we don’t put leaving on the table, we never have the conversation about how to do it. Like say a multinational peacekeeping force.
Cause guess what, the whole world knew what Pol Pot was up to after Vietnam…the whole world had the opportunity to do something.
Or we can be like last night’s PBS show pointed out about the Muslim-Christian stalemate in Spain. 700 years toe to toe. Plenty of dying. Nobody gained another inch.
Maybe armageddon’s aftermath is the Big Boys coming back and saying okay, children, you refused to learn, we’re taking back our planet…. and you don’t get to come out in the universe.
rwcole @ 56
I love Nancy Pelosi
Olbermann is doing work tonight.
Fineman on MSNBC:
Like watching a supertanker turning around inch by inch. Bush has conceded the obvious. Bolton met with McConnell and Reid. Benchmark talk has been planned.
rwcole @ 27
The don’t have to is purely theoretical because then the troops really wouldn’t be funded and that would be political suicide. And yes this is definitely headed for a conference committee. It’s just that I saw the coverage of the original supplemental spun as if those who were writing the article were totally clueless about the legislative process. They kept making it sound like everything at each stage was make or break when it really wasn’t.
Bush purpose at this point. Leave troops in Iraq, run out the clock, and leave it to the Democrats.
jayt @ 48
Good for them.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 64
OKKiddo, I really think they plan to win in 2008.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 64
Absolutely, it’s what he’s done all his life: screwed up and left it to others to clean up his messes.
SnarKassandra @ 52
Well it won’t get past the Senate, or the veto crayon of the prez, but I like their style.
Reverse bargaining:
Seller: I need to sell this truck.
Buyer: I’ll give you $500
Seller: I need at least $750
Buyer: $400
Seller: $600?
Buyer: $300
Selller: okay let’s go back to the orignal. I’ll take your first offer of $500
Buyer: Offer is now $200 - wanna keep playing this game?
RonD @ 40
1) Invade Iran
2) Blowback allows for martial law in USA
3) State Of Emergency is declared, ShrubCo retains Executive Power unencumbered by elections.
Blackwater On Your Street Corners.
Simple, and will most likely, succeed.
Next Demo president should give John Dean a pardon.
John Dean on KO:
Symbolic republican meeting with Bush yesterday. Bush knew exactly what they were going to say ahead of time. I doubt if much fresh air came in. Bush knows he has to do something, and he is bargaining for all the time he can get.
HotFlash @ 66
No, they know the real truth by now!
Our buddy Rahm on the vote:
“And so the need for a political solution, and the Iraqi answer? We’re taking the summer off, going fishing. This bill says no way. You have got to be accountable for your country and get off the sidelines and get on to the playing field and take ownership of your country’s future.”
Gosh, maybe we should have noticed who owned Iraq before we decided to take over?
larue @ 69
I hope you are just completely paranoyed.
SnarKassandra @ 11 says:
Thirty for the Senate, Twenty-five for the House. Thirty-five for Preznit. that is, actual chronological age. As we all know, Little Boots is your age emotionally.
On the Senate floor today, Biden was advocating sending the 1st Iraq Accountability Act back to the shrub, “again, and again, and again, and again.” I get tired of listening to Joe easily (no? really?), but he explained his position and strategy so that anyone with 1/2 a brain could understand.
We’ll see how many Rs go come on board with this 50/50 bill. Prolly not enough to get over the hump, but some will cross the bridge.
It’s a long drawn-out process. Regardless of what some think, the Dems are doing everything within their limited power to achieve the stated goals. We all have to remember the legislative process isn’t a 30-minute sit-com (although sometimes it appears that way). Instant gratification is rarely achieved. And, when dealing with the current egregious events, the process will inevitably take much longer.
Lastly, keep the faith!
Anyone else caught that bit in the testimony about Debra Wong Yang, the former LA US Attorney, who accepted an outrageous $1.5 million signing bonus to leave her job to join the law firm representing Jerry Lewis (R-CA), who she just happened to be investigating? Queried about whether he found this troubling, Abu said “Not at all… any firm getting Ms. Yang’s services is lucky because of her outstanding abilities.”
Ummmm….. huh?
dakine01 @ 75
Thirty for the Senate, Twenty-five for the House. Thirty-five for Preznit. that is, actual chronological age. As we all know, Little Boots is your age emotionally.
Do not insult me! (please)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 70
I support this message.
dakine01 @ 75
Thirty for the Senate, Twenty-five for the House. Thirty-five for Preznit. that is, actual chronological age. As we all know, Little Boots is your age emotionally.
No way, Cassie beats The Decider by a mile.
Today’s scripted-for-the-Republicans Gonzalez hearing showed me that the Rubberstamp Republicans are still the Go-Along Republicans.
They’ll enable and spin and further the agenda of the Radical Republican cabal currently occupying the White House until it finally occurs to them they’re swimming in the same sewer of swill.
No matter what the issue — Iraq, Abu, environment, food supply, “war” on drugs — BRovushe corrupt and debase everything they touch.
BRING OUR TROOPS HOME
TO TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN.
jayt @ 68
I don’t know about the Senate. It will be interesting to see. As for Bush, each time he vetoes another bill to fund the troops more people see him and not the Congress as the problem. And the political pressure will be extreme on the White House to sign this bill if it gets to Bush in something like its present form.
The media like to talk about the dangers to Democrats if they don’t kowtow to Bush but the truth is that the costs to the Republicans are likely to be far higher and they know it.
OT~ But apparently much of the “evil acts” that demonstrated those arrested Ft. Dix terrorists weren’t acts done by the guys arrested…but by the planted FBI informant.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....t_dix_plot
HE was the one who “scouted out” Ft. Dix. [Q. Was HE the one who suggested and planned the attack on Ft. Dix, too?]
HE was the one that said he could obtain and was going to buy the automatic weapons and rocket launchers…the other guys asked “aren’t those illegal”?
HE claimed that he had the experience to plan the attacks…the others said that, given his background, he should be the leader!
” One of the men, Tatar, called a Philadelphia police officer in November, saying that he had been approached by someone who was pressuring him to obtain a map of Fort Dix, and that he feared the incident was terrorist-related, according to court documents.”
Heck…maybe the FBI should have planted a guy that said he had access to a nuke that could destroy the Universe…that would have made even a more spectacular story. “Islamic Terrorsists plotting to destroy Universe! About to obtain ‘Secret’ weapon from arms dealer! Stopped in the nick of time!”
If Pach or Mutant Poodle is lurking, can one of you email me please?
Larue … you miss the real message I think. W does not need to stay in the WH if the same thinking pervades DC … martial law tends to upset people but keeping americans comfortable while they go about their plans keeps it all from getting too messy …
I’m hoping that there’s a miracle and it does make it through the senate. And if the pres vetoes it I think he’ll drop below 25% approval. There is NO justification for a veto. It would just magnify how stubborn and unreasonable he is. And petulant and stubborn and pig-headed and spoiled rotten and most importantly ‘the one who is denying funding to our troops.’
Blub @ 77
Abu is a loyal Bushie. He wouldn’t know ethics if it kicked him.
SnarKassandra @ 78
Do not insult me! (please)
Sorry! I should have qualified that as you are far more mature emotionally and intellectually than Little Boots.
Siun @ 73
Bushie’s going fishin’–guess they thought they could do the same… Maybe Bush and the Congress should all give up their vacations and junkets and August recess and every other cushy creature comfort of their pampered lives and get busy making a common sense plan to
BRING OUR TROOPS HOME.
’bout time we demand the Congress take care of our own. The troops deserve better.
Larue #69, the problem with that scenario is that we can’t invade Iran-we don’t have enough troops. The ten divisions of the active-duty Army are fully engaged, and the Guard and Reserves are stretched to the limit. We can only wage an air campaign, but having said that, remember Iran-Contra?IIRC, Ollie North had a plan put together to do just what you’ve suggested(if they deemed it necessary). I agree with SnarKassandra. I would like to hope that avenue of thought is paranoia-but hey! It’s not paranoia if they really are out to get you, is it?
SnarKassandra @ 74
Me too. But I’m worried.
cinnamonape @ 83
The more things change, the more they remain the same. FBI used to pull that same cr*p back in the sixties/seventies.
dakine01 @ 75
Thirty for the Senate, Twenty-five for the House. Thirty-five for Preznit. that is, actual chronological age. As we all know, Little Boots is your age emotionally.
Don’t insult Cassie. He’s under 12 if he’s a day.
RonD @ 90
What about the mercs? They’re always up for a covert mission and/or catalyst event.
I’m liking Olbermann particularly tonight. Batiste, Dean, etc.
Prairie Sunshine @ 89
Nah. I would much rather the shrubbies just take a long extended vacation, until January 2009…. Meanwhile, Congress can end the war and reverse shrub’s six year campaign to subvert the constitution and destroy the republic.
Batiste: I have no ties to the defense industry so I can speak honestly. I’m speaking out. RIGHT ON and ROGER THAT!!!
Cinnamonape - great catch on the “terrorist” story - thank you!
The line:
Also, one of the men, Tatar, called a Philadelphia police officer in November, saying that he had been approached by someone who was pressuring him to obtain a map of Fort Dix, and that he feared the incident was terrorist-related, according to court documents.
sorta messes with the picture, eh?
I find Rahm very distasteful.
kdh22 #94, you are of course correct. Frightening.
RonD - the plans for Iran that seem to be in play are for sustained carpet bombing not for troops on the ground. Would that work … nope but it would make W feel manly.
Will the troops/military familys/vets listen to Batiste?
At the end of today’s hearing, when Conyers told him to provide documents, and Gonzales said he would take the request back, who was he going to take the request back TO? Cuz it sounded like he was tellig Conyers to Cheney himself.
Also - How in the hell could he know all the people who didn’t put names on the list of the 8 USAs without knowing who did?
Siun @ 101
Wouldn’t it be cheaper just to prescribe him some V*agra?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 99
He’s a fox in the hens house…and that’s putting it kindly.
Siun @ 101
Hear! Hear! And that’s what it’s all about anyway, isn’t it? Shrub with the big ba**s.
Hugh @ 104
Think of the children!
blerghFern @ 103
Well as Wexler pointed out it’s because he does know.
RonD @ 100
That’s why I lose sleep at night. 126,000 in Iraq. Yeah, right! More for sure. And, then all the other proteges in the wings.
kdh22 @ 94