Iraqis take part in a funeral procession for victims of a helicopter rocket attack, in Baghdad, Iraq, Saturday, May 5, 2007. Residents and police in a Shiite area in eastern Baghdad said U.S. helicopters early Saturday fired on three houses, killing six men and wounding a woman and five children. The U.S. military, which says it does its best to avoid civilian casualties, said it was looking into the report. (AP Photo/Ali al-Khazali) On Friday, the Pentagon released the findings of their fourth study of the mental health of US Troops in Iraq. According to the New York Times the report was submitted in November but Pentagon officials have not explained why the public release of the report was delayed, a move that kept the data out of the public debate as the Bush administration developed its plan to build up troops in Iraq and extend combat tours. Rear Adm. Richard R. Jeffries, a medical officer, told reporters on Friday that the timing was decided by civilian Pentagon officials. Editor and Publisher summarizes the findings: • Sixty-two percent of soldiers and 66 percent of Marines said that they knew someone seriously injured or killed, or that a member of their team had become a casualty. • The 2006 adjusted rate of suicides per 100,000 soldiers was 17.3 soldiers, lower than the 19.9 rate reported in 2005. • Only 47 percent of the soldiers and 38 percent of Marines said noncombatants should be treated with dignity and respect. • About a third of troops said they had insulted or cursed at civilians in their presence. • About 10 percent of soldiers and Marines reported mistreating civilians or damaging property when it was not necessary. Mistreatment includes hitting or kicking a civilian. • Forty-four percent of Marines and 41 percent of soldiers said torture should be allowed to save the life of a soldier or Marine. • Thirty-nine percent of Marines and 36 percent of soldiers said torture should be allowed to gather important information from insurgents. One of the key findings of the report is that these ethics problems are more pronounced the longer tours are extended and the more tours soldiers serve. And the Guardian notes: There are about 150,000 US troops in Iraq. Many have been complaining in emails and blogs about President George Bush's decision this year to extend deployment from one year to 15 months as part of an attempt to pacify Baghdad and Anbar province. The Pentagon this week imposed restrictions on internet postings from war zones, and claimed it was because of the risk of providing sensitive information to insurgents. (snip) Reacting to the ban, soldiers said that the real reason for the curb was their negative comments about the war, including scepticism about Mr Bush's claims about progress. Most of the reports on this new study focus on how the extended tours are leading to "stress" among American troops and I am sure the stress is horrific – but that is missing the point. We spend so much time talking about the toll on "our troops" and these articles are prime examples. Where is the mention of what this complete break with honorable behavior means for the people of Iraq? It's not surprising that BushCo's rhetoric and criminal behavior leads to a military where honor and discipline give way to torture and abuse. Yet nothing justifies the immorality of the way our soldiers are acting in Iraq. Look closely at what we did just today: Iraqis inspect remains of their home in Sadr City Shiite district of Baghdad, Iraq, Sunday, May 6, 2007. U.S. and Iraqi forces raided Sadr City, bombing four houses and wounding six civilians, Iraqi police said. (AP Photo/Adil al-Khazali) Note that Reuters reports that one civilian was killed, 8 were wounded in this US air strike. Or read this from today's issue of the Guardian, by Karzan Sherabayani, a British journalist. Karzan reports on the murder of his 75 year old uncle by American troops in Kirkuk and describes the reaction of his cousin Sabah: Kakarash Ali Khalid was a family man. He had recently retired after working all his life as a lorry driver, a job which took him all over Iraq. Like most Kurds, he suffered under Saddam, with many relatives – myself included – imprisoned and tortured. He had eight children and was still helping to provide for the family by doing odd driving jobs. Sabah remembers him telling the young ones to be careful at checkpoints – although he was not hostile to the US presence. 'He was happy they took Saddam away from power, and was saying we will finally have a good life,' Sabah told me. 'Before, I too was very happy about seeing the Americans here, but not any more. Anyone submitted to this injustice will dislike them. Have they come here to save us from Saddam or to kill us?' 

Related posts:
- Electrocution Deaths: DOD IG Finds Multiple Failures by KBR, Military
- Afghanistan: 21,000 Plus 13,000 – or Plus 115,000?
- The Enhanced Ticking Technique Timebomb
- “You Came Too Close, We Lit You Up” – The Lethal Warriors Come Home
- Report Confirms Poor Electrical Work by KBR Endangers US Troops in Iraq and Afghanistan





Spotlight







Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Advanced search

ZeD
Suin,
powerful post!
Good Evening Siun!
Doug Ireland (who has spent a considerable amount of time in France) on what Sarko’s victory really means.
Thank AZ Matt – I was talking to a friend last night saying I was looking for something upbeat but there is no happy news from Iraq …
Hi Lolo!
I have a nephew in the Air Force who will soon be doing duty guarding prisoners in Iraq because the Army is stretched thin. Supposedly Air Force tours are only 6 months. I do worry even if he doesn’t.
That’s rough Matt – there are at least 30,000 Iraqis being held by US forces and the number jumps each day. Scary times.
As recruiting standards are degraded the “mental heath” and civilian abuse issues will only increase. We are seeing a repeat of the Vietnam era “100 thousand program.”
Here is a USA Today article about US soldiers lamenting how many Iraqis are being held in prison by Iraqis.
Apple, meet tree.
-GSD
Siun @ 6
It should be an eye opener for him and nothing more than that I hope. Had another nephew get back from Afghaniztan about a month ago with the CANG, did MP duty in Kabul and fortunately didn’t see any action except Hillary coming through the gate.
AZ Matt @ 6
I have a friend with same story. Air-force reserves, military police. Just got back from his second one year deployment. My nephew is in the navy, they put his ass in a Marine uniform and sent him to Iraq. He got back several months ago. I don’t think there will be any more six month tours.
Interesting link GSD – esp since we turn them over the Iraqis as well as hold some ourselves … and for very long times.
The article’s mention of a rebuke of one officer for releasing 35 wrongly detained Iraqis is emblematic of the big problem – our military leadership is reinforcing the worst.
Stop the killing. I want out of Iraq. I want no more unprovoked attacks on other nations. I want a fair solution to the Palestinian ‘question’. Which means I want a Palestinian homeland. I want no more babies to die by our hand. And I want justice for the killers. None of this is even remotely negotiable. I am serious.
Madness. It is the internal voice of conscience that tortures one endlessly even though one deals with and attempts to adopt every external rationality of an action. The gut rules. You can order someone, cajole someone, create rationalizations for justifying behavior, and superficially create a million reasons why someone should do something; but if it goes against the intuition of the person assigned to an agenda or action, intuition will win and torture the soul. PTSD is often guilt driven or powerlessness driven. It is unfair and perhaps criminal to bind people by rules and brainwashing in order to accomplish an agenda that goes against the gut of its agents. IMHO.
I was pretty horrified by the captions of the two pictures and reports coming from friends on the ground … we are walling in Iraqis and then we’re bombing them in their new walled in neighborhoods. Both pics are from this weekend and reflect two seperate air attacks on Sadr City but that is not the only location getting hit.
These are bombing raids on civilian neighborhoods …
Tell me again why we don’t have a draft. Congress needs to decide. Leave==now OR Stay==draft. It’s ridiculous to have this burden borne by a minority of American families. If war==draft had been in place in 2002 we would never have invaded Iraq in the first place.
The other darkly amusing option is we call every household on the phone and if they respond that they still support Bush, we send off all family members between the ages of 18 and 42, right then. That would be justice.
If you haven’t heard it already, there was a really good episode of This American Life that was rebroadcast last week that addresses the issue of holding prisoners without hearings or charges and torturing them. It is still available for listening or downloading at this link.
Disgraceful. All of it. We should be bringing those soldiers home, not assigning them to things that aren’t their jobs.
Walls? Walls for the Palestinians; walls for the Iraqis. Who gets the wall treatment next? Us? I am thinking about becoming angry.
Hi all. My brother’s original unit that he was with came back from Iraq 3 weeks ago. But 3 are injured and one died. And they are all truck mechanics not infantry.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 17
Well, there is that wall between us and Mexico… .
AZ Matt @ 20
They’re not doing too much building on that.
SnarKassandra @ 18
Is your brother finished with his Army commitment?
AZ Matt @ 22
No. He was army nat’l guard but is now army, but assigned here to oversee logistics and preparing the trucks that go from here to Iraq. He has 2 more yrs. They let him make the change so he can take care of me since Aunt Betsy can’t be my full time guardian.
Darkie @ 16
i like that a lot.
greenwarrior @ 24
And make sure you send all the Bush 18-42 yr olds.
Rightwinger wins French presidential election after massive turnout.
As rioting broke out at Bastille, on the other side of central Paris, the rightwing former interior minister promised to make France love itself again.
“love itself again” Code words?
Hi all. Siun, extremely powerful, disturbing post. Precedents abound, and all are negative-from America’s “Phoenix Program” in ‘Nam, to Soviet behavior in Afghanistan, to a million other instancs where soldiers’ character is corrupted by the inherent immorality of their mission.
Check out the screen capture of Lou Dobbs: Pentagon Casts Report Of Increased Combat Stress Among Troops As Positive News
All building a wall does is select for people with ladders.
Steve @ 11
I don’t think they can justify the 15 month tours that Gates just mandated for the Army while keeping Marine tours at 7 months. There will too many complaints about the inequity all up and down the heirarchy.
Not a pleasant read: LINK
Negroponte’s ugly hand.
The remains of more than 105 people killed by right-wing paramilitaries have been discovered in the jungles of southern Colombia, government officials have said.
RonD … the fear amongst Iraqis is that the walls allow for easy mass slaughter to put it bluntly. And we are seeing the first steps with these air attacks …
At the same time, there is talk in the Arab press and over at GorillasGuides of moves to unify the tribes … we are about to learn about the real price of treating people this way in their own land.
Negroponte’s presence should always be seen as a bad sign. He reminds me of the cleaner “the wolf” in Pulp Fiction.
Black bridge, bridge to blackness…Helllooooo!?
Siun#33, they have good reason to fear-I would recommend a study of the Warsaw Ghetto in which the Nazis corralled the Jews, for convenient extermination, and how it was used.
RonD @ 36
or, the battle for Stalingrad, whichever..
I was watching reports from the tornado-destroyed Kansas town earlier this evening. It was very moving.
I would really like for the big three American networks to also put reporters on the streets of Iraqi cities where we see equal devastation, and devote an equal amount of broadcast minutes to the anguished voices of the homeowners as they talk of what they have lost.
I don’t see any reason to feel more sorry for the people of Greensberg than for the people sitting on that pile of rubble in the picture above.
SnarKassandra @ 21
Ya, but I bet you someone is making money doing nothing!
Bill Hicks Youtube…any of it.
We’re sitting here under a tornado watch now and for the rest of night. Piece of cake. Wanna bet how many folks in Iraq or Palestine would love to trade places with us? Most of them I’ll wager.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 18
Georgie fell in love with Ariel Sharon. Golly, doesn’t he sound so … decisive? Georgie fell in love with Ariel’s method for dealing with terrorism. So we’re doing lots of things in Iraq that Israel has done to the Palestinians. Problem is, Sharon’s method of dealing with terrorists in Lebanon (years ago) and Palestine hasn’t worked. And will never work. When we imitate Israeli tactics in Iraq, we can expect the same result.
Bob in HI
AZ Matt …another view of Iraqi hospitals – and the blog this is from, Missing Links, if very worth following:
Missing Links
What happened at Naaman Hospital yesterday ?
Resistance web-site albasrah.net summarizes reports about what happened at Naaman Hospital in the walled-off area of Adhamiya yesterday, beginning with a summary of remarks by a Dr Ahmad Mahmoud, a doctor at the hospital, to AlJazeera TV. Dr Mahmoud said Iraqi troops, supported by American troops, stormed into the hospital and said there was an order from the Health Ministry to close the hospital, following which they arrested or expelled all patients in the hospital except for three who were in intensive care, and posted snipers on the roof of the hospital and on the roofs of neighboring buildings. The basrah.net writer notes that the Health Ministry has long been in the bailiwick of the Sadrists. And there were hearsay reports that many of those expelled or arrested had been executed.
There were similar reports on the resistance website iraqirabita.org and the website of the Association of Muslim Scholars. Some of the reports say this is or was the only hospital serving Sunnis on the east side of the Tigris. What actually happened? In the absense of any explanation, the logical conclusion would be that this event and the silence surrounding it are part of the sectarian strategy behind the building of the wall.
The American policy elite is instead being treated today to a piece by a senior US military adviser in Iraq who says the opponents of the Adhamiya wall are not the residents of Adhamiya at all, but AlQaeda! “The urban tourniquet”, counterinsurgency adviser David Kilkullen calls it.
SnarKassandra, I sent my 17-year old stepdaughter your way — the youth are aware and interested.
I interviewed a 71 year old army sergeant in 1961. Precursor of things to come?
But … an honest draft is a delusion, always was, always will be. Universal military service is a myth.
Bob in HI – good point and RonD … sadly yes.
Hi, LS-had the Nazis walled in Stalingrad, they may have won (they nearly did anyway). The inability of the Nazis to cut off Chuikov’s supplies is what held them up long enough to be encircled. The Warsaw ghetto parallel is the one that I find most appropriate, as I can’t find a historical precedent for a minority group being walled in like that that hasn’t ultimately led to a campaign of extermination.
For the most part Americans have not been allowed to see every day images like this in the msm. It’s about time we faced what is happening in our name on the other side of the world. It’s hard to look it. It’s despicable. We are bad guys there. No better sometimes than the terrorists we hunt.
RonD @ 34
Can you explain Negroponte’s giving up the #1 intelligence job in the country to take a position in the state department? Doesn’t make sense to me, unless he got cross-wise with Cheney. Since Tenet’s departure, what’s been the average length of tenure of the head of the CIA? (Different position than head of National Intelligence). Looks like everyone finds it an impossible job.
Bob in HI
LS @ 44
Thank you. We are always looking for guest writers also.
LS-Bill Hicks RULES!
SnarKassandra @ 19
Hi, Cassie!!! With a brother deployed I empathize with Ya!!! My last unit, after I had safely retired, HI-ARNG, was deployed to Iraq, fortunately, none of my immediate Brothers in Arms were significantly harmed, but I hovered over all reporting and talked with some of my boys while deployed!!! They were just given the 120 day notification to deploy, !!! Again!!! Out of Iraq, NOW!!!
Bob S#49, I don’t have any data, but my gut tells me this: Negroponte may be ruthless and amoral, but he is perversely competent. I suspect the current batch is so incompetent that he wished to avoid being mistaken for one of them.
LS @ 40
I was just watching this…VERY, VERY DIRTY! 707
Can someone point out to me why the Palestinians are treated by the Israeli and American governments as something less than human? Same with Iraqis and Iranians.
dear Siun,
have been reading these posts as long as you have been posting them – I just never have anything to add
I am doing everything I can outside of parking myself in front of the US Capitol – and yet I never feel more powerless than to read what is being done in our name
now this will make me sound somewhat magical in my thinking but can’t help but feel there would be a lot more active outrage on the part of the 78% who now oppose the Occupation – IF – they were exposed to realtime horrors – I want us all to see the air raids on Sadr City, the babies missing limbs, the Marines lying dead from the IED and the very real grief of those poor American familes being handed that god damn flag at the graveside
have actually written to MoveOn among others, suggesting they put up just a 30 second clip to be shown at movie theatres during the summer’s blockbusters – with a Call Your Congresscritter Now ending (have yet to be in a filled theatre that didn’t solicit pre movie ad space)
CTuttle @ 52
He is not deployed. He got to be assigned to TX because he is my only guardian and I have no other family that can take me.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 55
They are treated bad by the govt in Jordan too.
Didn’t the PLO try to overthrow the government in Jordan some years ago? Or at least that was the story-anyone know the truth?
This from the blog of an Iraqi woman in Baghdad who frequently blogged at the beginning of the war and now rarely does. It’s heartbreaking.
“The Great Wall of Segregation…
…Which is the wall the current Iraqi government is building (with the support and guidance of the Americans). It’s a wall that is intended to separate and isolate what is now considered the largest ‘Sunni’ area in Baghdad- let no one say the Americans are not building anything. According to plans the Iraqi puppets and Americans cooked up, it will ‘protect’ A’adhamiya, a residential/mercantile area that the current Iraqi government and their death squads couldn’t empty of Sunnis.
The wall, of course, will protect no one. I sometimes wonder if this is how the concentration camps began in Europe. The Nazi government probably said, “Oh look- we’re just going to protect the Jews with this little wall here- it will be difficult for people to get into their special area to hurt them!” And yet, it will also be difficult to get out. …”
snip
Link:
http://www.riverbendblog.blogspot.com/
About the blackout on showing caskets arriving on US soil? Does the President poltroon have sole discretion on this policy or could congress include an order to allow media to show the returning dead? If congress can return this freedom to the press I would write several letters this week asking them to do so.
RonD @ 47
That is precisely what I am worried about. This must be a frequently repeated crucial battle game tactic by those that believe war solves anything. Saddam Hussein studied those tactics also – especially Soviet tactics. The remaining loyalists of his army surely are aware of what he was thinking. Sucking our army into a cushy “green zone” and then suddenly cutting off supplies could entrap the troops. This war must end. This scenario troubles me greatly.
P.S. Siun, Awesome Post!!! Less than half the Army troops say Noncombatants should be treated with Respect! I am deeply saddened with that Poll result!!! I feel ashamed for the Army! However, The worst Frigging poll result is ; the 62% of Soldiers, and 66% of Gyrines, knowing somebody who was a Casuality!!! We need to stop this Madness, Now!!!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 18
OKK, thinking? I think you are beyond angry. Me too.Oklahoma kiddo @ 41
Best wishes OKK.
Hi LS-I agree with you. I think it would go something like this:
Green Zone Tet
CTuttle @ 63
This is an occupation and not a war, so there is no battlefield. Soldiers are trained for combat and trained to kill. They are not trained to build societies and enforce a peace that has not been settled. And these soldiers have very bad role models for how to value life and many of them are getting orders that don’t tell them to be kind. They are afraid for their lives and they are in a situation that they can’t control and they have no training for. They don’t belong in a 4-yr-long occupation with no real military mission anymore. So cut them some slack and go after their commanders instead. Start with “The Commander Guy”.
Former President Carter has it right on Israeli racism toward the Palestinians. Mindful of the history of the struggle of the Jewish people, the Israelis should know better than to practice apartheid and torture. Apparently they don’t.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 55
I don’t know how much better it is since ‘05…
Palestinians ‘terrorised’ by sonic boom flights
Jonno @ 48
And the caskets of American soldiers should be shown. I can’t believe the dems capitulated on that.
Loo Hoo @ 69
They had a vote?
SnarKassandra @ 57
CTuttle @ 52
SnarKassandra @ 19
Hi all. My brother’s original unit that he was with came back from Iraq 3 weeks ago. But 3 are injured and one died. And they are all truck mechanics not infantry.
Hi, Cassie!!! With a brother deployed I empathize with Ya!!! My last unit, after I had safely retired, HI-ARNG, was deployed to Iraq, fortunately, none of my immediate Brothers in Arms were significantly harmed, but I hovered over all reporting and talked with some of my boys while deployed!!! They were just given the 120 day notification to deploy, !!! Again!!! Out of Iraq, NOW!!!
He is not deployed. He got to be assigned to TX because he is my only guardian and I have no other family that can take me.
Whoa, God Bless My Dear! I’ve also witnessed travesties in squaring away the familial situations, prior to deployment, many were as F**ked up as your’s seems!!!
My family is wonderful. We love each other and we help each other. It just is not the same family I was born in, but the biggest problem with my current family is that my cousin is 12 and leaves the bathroom messy. And he is gross when he eats. But…. We are a great family.
RonD @ 65
very VERY interesting.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 67
Hmmm. I tend to disagree a bit on this. I think that most Israelis would be quite happy with a Palestinian state. The problem is that they have a vocal minority that vehemently opposes it, and they don’t seem to have any partners on the Palestinian side that they can truly work with. If you’re going to use the “apartheid” analogy, I’d say that there isn’t going to be a Palestinian state until we can find a Palestinian Nelson Mandela.
Bush is banking on that “concrete walls” will stop success by the resistance, because THEY (the resistance) have not attempted a surge. What think you? I am uncertain. So far, they are either patient or disorganized. Which is it?
Hi greenwarrior-it just seems logical, the longer the supply lines are, the more vulnerable they are.
Eureka Springs @ 61
That policy dates back to Bush1. When the first KIA’s came back to Dover AFB, Bush1 was shown on split screen yucking it up with his buddies on a gulf course. No more pictures of dead GIs on the tee-vee.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 55
Dehumanization of the “other” to justify whatever heinous exploitation they are up to is my assumption.
Aside from the obvious insanity. Sure suggests just how awful the US leadership must be on so many levels. It’s an astonishing number, imo.
LS @ 75
It could be a little of each, but I’d bank on patience being the bigger factor. It’s pretty clear to me that the Iraqi resistance can do anything it pleases anytime it pleases, and that Bush’s people can’t conceive of any approach that doesn’t amount to trying to swat flies with a sledgehammer. So, they can afford to wait. Anything the occupiers do adds support to them, so why stick their necks out?
Siun, in the study you quoted, did they do any correlations between number/length of tours and the attitudes and behaviours described?
cbl @ 56
That is a GREAT idea!
Eureka Springs @ 79
And, a problem with the question- assumes torture “works”.
Just Imagine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEOkxRLzBf0
Fern @ 81
This site may have more.
SnarkKassandra,
There was no vote on not showing caskets, but during the 2006 campaign, dems showed them at first. Sean Hannity decided that they shouldn’t be shown, that it was really rude of the dems to do so, so the dems stopped showing them. Talk about chickenshit…
Eureka Springs @ 79
I bet they all watch 24.
Valley Girl @ 83
I can’t figure out which is the more damning condemnation–that torture is immoral on its face, or that it never worked to begin with. May as well rub the bastards’ faces in both facts.
Loo Hoo @ 86
Cowards.
SnarKassandra @ 57
Hey Cassie,
I was just wondering, are you the Cassie who called Mike Malloy a few months ago about your situation?
SnarKassandra @ 72
Sounds like a classic American Family, Dynsfunctional, yet, a Family!!!
SnarKassandra @ 87
I hate Kiefer Sutherland for his willingness to prostitute himself to the neocons with that piece of crap show.
john in sacramento @ 90
Yes. My first call to him was March 2006 when my brother was supposed to go to Iraq. Then I have called a bunch more times but not about that.
Don’t cry for the people of Iraq, or the American GI’s who are coming back broken in body or mind.
Cry instead for Doug Feith and George Tenet, who are forced to teach dualing courses at Georgetown University.
Life within the Beltway can be so harsh, when even a former BFF no longer wants to do lunch.
EvilDoc, SnarKassandra, I have no link, but there were news reports several months ago saying that reps of the DoD had met with producers of “24″ and asked them to chill on the torture scenes because they WERE being emulated by the soldiers.
RonD @ 95
I heard about that.
allan_in_upstate @ 94
Well, that was a fucking waste of column-inches. I wouldn’t pay either one to teach dog obedience.
allan_in_upstate @ 94
This is the mystery of life!!!!!!!!!Wake me up and explain to me please…Tell me somethin’ good!!!
Eureka Springs @ 79
I am surprised the numbers are not a lot higher. I suspect that the other 59% were giving the answer they were expected to give. There are very few REMFs in this war; most of these men and women are going out in an urban warfare environment, day after day, expecting to be blown up. The psychological stress is huge; and the senior leadership sucks. Bring them home.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 84
you found it!
SnarKassandra @ 96
Me too. It’s despicable that the show even exists to emulate.
RonD @ 95
True, The Commandant of WestPoint, in person, told the Producers; “It was counter-productive to our goals in inculcating the Cadet Corps…” Or along those lines…
EvilDrPuma @ 88
Yes. Words can be used and twisted. I was thinking back to Hillary’s approval of torture “under certain circumstances”. i.e. it’s okay if it’s immoral, if it works. (which it doesn’t).
RonD @ 59
The PLO and Jordan had a war all right and the PLO lost. One of the reasons the PLO leadership was in Tripoli for a long time.
SnarKassandra @ 93
I just wanted to say how well-spoken and impressive you were/are in the calls; and I hope your brother will never have to go over there
Glad to see you’re highlighting the “mental health” report siun — I’ll pick it up again.
Thank you! I hope so too. I am amazed how many people remember when I called in.
Yes Steve… Bring them home now!
cbl @56 – Has a good idea about movie theaters. I think photos like the one over at gorrillas guides of the little boy walking through a pool of bloody water while picking up pieces of human flesh should be shown far and wide.
History has shown us that what goes around comes around. We, the American people, are going to have to deal with the enemies the Boy King is making for years. Remember one thing. BushCo has grossly underestimated the enemy. One thing that kept our group alive in Vietnam was, that we did not. At the national level, I think they have forgotten those lessons. They may have to learn them agian, the hard way.
This is quite the opaque report:
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WO…..iraq.main/
Part of a compiled ‘war across Iraq’ summary:
Strange occurence. With a few loose ends.
I am always impressed with the number of veterans who comment here and just would like to say thank you for your service. And thank you for your patriotism in speaking your minds.
siun — why do you have (sic) on the title? What is the mistake?
SnarKassandra @ 112
I presume it means that the phrase “mental health” does not exactly fit the attitudes described in the survey. (In my opinion, “moral degeneracy” might be more accurate!)
OUR GLORIOUS BLUEPRINT – WILL THEY NEVER LEARN (that’s next): World War I
Over There
Johnnie, get your gun,
Get your gun, get your gun,
Take it on the run,
On the run, on the run.
Hear them calling, you and me,
Every son of liberty.
Hurry right away,
No delay, go today,
Make your daddy glad
To have had such a lad.
Tell your sweetheart not to pine,
To be proud her boy’s in line.
(chorus sung twice)
Johnnie, get your gun,
Get your gun, get your gun,
Johnnie show the Hun
Who’s a son of a gun.
Hoist the flag and let her fly,
Yankee Doodle do or die.
Pack your little kit,
Show your grit, do your bit.
Yankee to the ranks,
From the towns and the tanks.
Make your mother proud of you,
And the old Red, White and Blue.
(chorus sung twice)
Chorus
Over there, over there,
Send the word, send the word over there -
That the Yanks are coming,
The Yanks are coming,
The drums rum-tumming
Ev’rywhere.
So prepare, say a pray’r,
Send the word, send the word to beware.
We’ll be over, we’re coming over,
And we won’t come back till it’s over
Over there.
LS – I’m voting patience and I think it’s about to end.
Plus mortar attacks on the Green Zone are picking up and … a report I read either at Pat Lang’s or Juan Cole’s mentioned that that accuracy was being calibrated and improved.
Cassie – I put “sic” because I do not see any “health” in this report. I am so glad your brother is home with you rather than there!
On supply lines – MarkfromIreland of GorillasGuides has been writing for … well several years … about the fragility of those supply lines. If/when the resistance choses to cut them (and remember they are also the way out of Iraq) it will be very rough indeed.
WHERE HAVE ALL THE FLOWERS GONE
words and music by Pete Seeger
performed by Pete Seeger and Tao Rodriguez-Seeger
Where have all the flowers gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the flowers gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the flowers gone?
Girls have picked them every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?
Where have all the young girls gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the young girls gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the young girls gone?
Taken husbands every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?
Where have all the young men gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the young men gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the young men gone?
Gone for soldiers every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?
Where have all the soldiers gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the soldiers gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the soldiers gone?
Gone to graveyards every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?
Where have all the graveyards gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the graveyards gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the graveyards gone?
Covered with flowers every one
When will we ever learn?
When will we ever learn?
LS @ 114,
I think that World War One was one of the few my relatives missed on. The Revolution, the Civil War(both sides), WWII, and Korea. No one in Vietnam or First Gulf. I wish we were skipping this one too.
CBL – I like you idea and I agree that it is very important that we look closely at what is being done in our name, with out tax dollars, with our forces. W depends on keeping the occupation a sanitized idea here at home … and we cooperate with that in many ways because we do not like to face what we have become.
Blank Kludge @ 110
Just in time, ain’t that sweet…
Siun @ 119
GoodMrsPuma and I have recently been coping with the revelation of some major physical and sexual abuse of one of our nieces/nephews. I’d love not to have to face what some people have turned out to be in the face of that, too. And as with Iraq, I do not believe in the luxury of denial.
David Ehrenstein @ 4
Dave,
Thanks for the link. Good articles by Doug! I’ve got to admit that I’m less informed on French politics than I should be. No doubt Sarko will do his utmost to put us all up to speed…
EvilDrPuma @ 121
Are they safe now?
CTuttle @ 52
One of the things that hasn’t gotten enough attention is how the Preznit has ABUSED the National Guard. He is using them in a way they were never meant to be used. For example, local security forces have relied on part time help from National Guard personnel, and they have been short-handed ever since. National Guard equipment such as Medicopters have contributed greatly to emergency medical evaluation in communities– but many of these resources have been co-opted by the Bush War Machine. This was exposed during Katrina, when the Louisiana National Guard was short-handed and short of equipment. Yes, the National Guard is supposed to be available to help in a National Emergency, but this is a War of Choice, and its gone on for longer that WW-II! I think every Governor ought to be calling their NG back home, and denying any future rotations to Iraq.
Bob in HI
EvilDr … so sorry for your relative … sexual abuse is so devastating.
And you are so right … hiding our eyes does not change reality, it just makes us conspirators.
LS, I teach the old folk songs to my students.
This war is wearing out our military. From casualties to mental health, it is on the verge of breaking. These politicians need to wake up!
Re: the origin of “Over There”:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sons_of_Liberty
Facists everywhere:LINK
Steve @ 8
Yes, and almost no mental hospitals that take long-term inpatients now.
Evening, everyone. Siun, your Sunday posts are painful, but necessary, reading. Thank you.
SnarKassandra @ 123
The child’s mother is trying, but at my last knowledge the probable perpetrator and that person’s spouse were trying to stalk the victim, whom I think is unlikely to tell the story to investigators until and unless they can offer more safety than this. There may have been action taken on the stalking since we last spoke to the mother, but that has been a few days.
I’m very worried for the kid. There are members of the extended family who have already shown a willingness to stick up for the perp, and that makes me sick. It’s likely to produce some big fissures, but as far as I’m concerned, that’s just their tough luck. I say protect and encourage the victim, and that is all I say.
And or bringing impeachment to their legislature for a vote.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEOkxRLzBf0
Siun @ 125
Yup. There is a certain analogy here. And I find myself with a very low tolerance for denial and ass-covering in both cases.
Level of organization
“In the popular imagination (as in the novel Johnny Tremain by Esther Forbes), the Sons of Liberty was a formal underground organization with recognized members and leaders. More likely, the name was an umbrella term for any men resisting new Crown taxes “…
Clusterfuck has turned the US military into a patched up used 1937 pickup truck with bad valves and a leaky headgasket. He should not be trusted with a bicycle. Ignorant man- a VERY ignorant man.
EDP, as the mother of a childhood sexual abuse survivor, I agree. Protect and encourage the victim.
EvilDrPuma @ 132
You have our email address right? Aunt Betsy said you may want to call or email her.
AZ Matt – do you know the books of Kim Stanley Robinson? You might enjoy his latest trilogy on global warming which has some very interesting tibetan aspects … I am a KSR fanatic and love his Three Californias and Mars series even more but the latest – beginning with 40Degree – is very timely and now that all three are out, it’s a great read. Just thought you’d enjoy given your other interests.
Suzanne @ 138
Even when they are too embarressed to talk about anything tell them you love them and they will be safe now.
SnarKassandra @ 139
Actually, I think I lost the email addy.
EvilDrPuma @ 142
I will tell her to write to you :)
SnarKassandra @ 23
Best of luck to your brother, SnarKassandra. My father had a similar job in the army during wwii. He was stationed at various times both stateside and overseas. Since there were no computers then, part of his job was to supervise a big database of parts, ammunition, or other supplies, depending on where he was based. Of course, there were no computers then, so the database consisted of actual index cards that had to be filed in a proper system, updated, and occasionally validated.
It was actually pretty interesting and challenging work, he said, and definitely not as bad as the front lines. Still, it apparently took its toll, as it was only about ten years ago that, out of the blue, he shuddered and exclaimed, “Good Lord, I spent months sitting on top of an ammo dump!”
To repeat, I hope your brother is as lucky.
SnarKassandra @ 141
That’s what we’re trying to do, but it’s hard to tell them they’re safe if one can’t truly guarantee that.
Siun @ 140
Don’t no the books but will check them out.
SnarKassandra @ 143
Thanks!
Suzanne @ 138
Thanks for the vote of confidence. Believe me, it helps.
Suzanne @ 131
so true.
Siun @ 140
Delurking to give another shoutout for KSR. I just finished reading 60 Days & Counting, and absolutely loved it. Another of my favorites is Years of Rice and Salt.
Back to lurk mode.
1,508 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Siun and the Firepup Patriots:
MarkfromIreland has indeed been doin’ heroic work tryin’ ta get the message out about just how vulnerable our troops are in this mess but even here on FDL, people don’t seem to get it. There should be no dancing around about political strategies to get the troops out…there is no exit without a major infusion of troops just to enable an evacuation and such an operation would cost tens of thousands.
The only way we are gunna get our people home is to engage the Syrians and Iranians to provide the cover for us to leave. The only way we get to negotiate with the Syrians and Iranians is to get rid of our existing administration. If our troops are still in Iraq in January of 2009 and Mrs. Clinton is President then we are lookin’ at regional war because her corporate handlers will never allow her to pull the troops out. The only thing Clinton will negotiate with the Iranians and Syrians is the partitioning of Iraq and by that time even the Iranians and Syrians won’t be able to control events.
The anti-war movement must carry forth the message that our troops are in danger and we have lost the war we won in 2003!
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION, GOD IS WATCHIN’ AND WE HAVE PENANCE TO SERVE!!!
Simple fools.
This is what progress looks like.
CLAP HARDER, DAMMIT!!!
Loo Hoo @ 126
I bet you know “Johnny has gone for a soldier.” Or maybe it’s called Buttermilk Hill?
ET,
I am watching with interesting the Alaska Repubs -go-to-jail but interested in your take on the hard-on the AK repubs have for the Federally recognised Native Villages. They want the land, the resources or what?
Fight them over there, not ove here!!!!
http://www.firstworldwar.com/audio/Billy Murray – Over There.mp3
A little off topic, but, not really.
One thing this whole terrible business seems to be doing is bringing young people into the political dialog that is essential to defend and protect the Constitution. Nothing to teach the real meaning of morality than to watch the results of the wholesale violation of said morality, both in Washington and overseas. Yes, we have to stop it, yes, we have to deal with what the Boy King has done to this country for generations, but we have managed to bring the young people into this in a far more serious way than when I picked up a gun and went off to South East Asia. Serious young people. If you haven’t dropped in on SnarKassandra’s blog I highly reccomend it. If, and I’m sure it’s true, they’re youngest blogger is 12, then I think I’m a little less worried that we have utterly failed to pass on a real sense of what America is, and we have left them a country full of people who are not willing to be quiet in the face of a king, who are not willing to be accused of treason for disagreeing with that king. It gives me a little hope, and a much better feeling about some of my friends whose names are on that fearsome black wall in Washington. In general, if any good has come of this horrible war, this one in particular, it is that people like my 18-year old son and his girl-friend can quote the Constitution of the United States and its amendments without out blinking an eye…… And tell you why it is important. It took a log-ago war to get me to come home and sit down and do that.
Hi, Prostartedragon! I don’t know if you remember, but you sent me some links a week or two ago…they wound up being the root of this:
A History of Violence
I hope you approve. This piece would not have been written without you. Thanks.
kristine! don’t lurk! I’m so happy to see another KSR reader!
I need to reread Rice and Salt – read it too fast on a bad flight and need to go back and savor. That said, I reread Mars once a year at least and always learn something new and remember why I must keep going.
So happy to have you on board!
LS @ 155
“over”.
Here is their STRATERGY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
rwcole @ 137
Haven’t you heard? We’re winning, I heard it on CNN!
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, U.S. ARMY (RET): I think it’s been done before in smaller areas and locales and it may not work throughout all of Iraq, but I think this is a typical way to handle irregular warfare, which we’re involved in here. And since you use the other quote and since Major McFarland used to work for me, here’s another one. By indirection find direction out. That’s Shakespeare and that’s what McFarland is doing. He’s taking uncommon approach to what’s been done in this area in a conventional mindset and that will not work. You have to try something, because what was happening before did not work and I’m very confident that McFarland’s tactic here is the way to go.
FOREMAN: I can’t make enough of how big the change is. Look at what the “New York Times” wrote, one year ago about al Anbar province. In a recent province by province review by the military command and the embassy, Anbar received the worst score of overall stability and was rated critical. One year later, this is what they are writing. Anbar province is undergoing a surprising transformation. Violence is ebbing in many areas and the insurgency appears to be in retreat. Michael, where is the bad news in this?
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRA…..ww.01.html
Idiot
rwcole @ 137
I know they didn’t have 1937 Edsel pickup trucks, but he seems to have managed to retro-engineer one, eh?
Bought my first pickup truck in 25 years yesterday. A 1990 Chevy 3/4-ton 4×4.
Sorry for the misspelling, ProstrateDragon. Preview used to be my friend…
FYI, late nite is up.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 55
There are parallels between the Israel treatment of Palestine and the American treatment of Native Americans in the 19th Century. The idea has been to confine them to Reservations, or drive them off their land. And like the American West, where Native Americans were treated as less than human, so is the attitude by some Israelis towards Palestinians. However, this sentiment is not universal, and there are other voices, such as Jewish Voice for Peace (info@jewishvoiceforpeace.org), and American Jewish World Service , who view things differently, and Ha’aretz, the Israeli version of the New York Times, often has good press analysis. Also, for a helpful Jewish debate on Palestinian issues, see the Tikkun web site. You won’t see much of that in the American MSM, however.
Bob in HI
Good God.. what the hell are they doing!?
Play # 159.
Trex is prowling upstairs and lolo got the Zed again!!
lolo got the ZeD
There’s a new Thread
The other day I berated an American couple here in Canada by saying ” no wonder you Americans are despised all over the world “. I`m loseing it too . Completely uncalled for . Sorry
1,508 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Cynic and the Firepup Patriots:
You are right on,brother, about the youngsters growin up in this shit. I have two daughters, one about to graduate from college and go teach and one finishin’ her first year, they are both much more “serious” than alotta us were when we were caught in the switches in the last corporate war in Vietnam. Unfortunately, their political understandin’ is much less developed than was ours but then they didn’t have a draft to educate them about political economy.
These “kids” are learnin’ very fast, I jest hope we don’t fuck the whole thing up before they have a chance ta do something about it.
KEEP THE FAITH, WE DO IT FOR THE CHILDREN, WE ARE EXPENDABLE!!
AZ Matt @ 154
The levels of racism against Alaska Natives are more subtle than up-front. My 13 years working in public safety taught me many things, but the thing that I carried away from it which made me the most bitter was finally understanding how the dynamic of institutionalized racism really works thoughout our country.
In Alaska, the Dems support the Natives far, far more than the GOP, but throughout the political spectrum, Alaska natives are there. Diane Benson, who ran against Don Young, is a Tlinget princess. But Don’s wife is Gwich’in. Ted Stevens’s first wife was Tanana. The governor’s husband is Athabaskan.
Native Sovereignty works on many levels here. Those who fight it are usually motivated by a mix of beliefs, most obvious of which – especially when it comes from the Right – are greed, envy and unwillingness to surrender control.
prostratedragon -
Your father’s WWII job is part of what drove what we’re using now, as you say – pre-computer. At least, the need to simplify access and cross-reference, not just parts, but all the info on the wave of discharged GI’s…
(no relation to the crime family)
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/194507/bush
Which was read by Ivan Sutherland:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Sutherland
Sorry for the off topic, but it is one of my subjects of interest.
Frank Probst @ 74
I think it is also a problem that Israel has no Yitzhak Rabin. And when they had him, an Israeli wingnut killed him.
On the Palestinian side, check this story: Maxine Kaufman-Lacusta examines the growing Palestinian non-violence movement.
Bob in HI
EvilDrPuma:
I work for a psychiatrist who has dealt with sexual abuse specifically child sexual abuse for years. I don’t know if she can help you, but both Christy and Jane have my e-mail address. If you want to ask them, I’ll be happy to put you in touch with the psychiatrist. She practices in the Midwest, but she has written extensively on the subject, and she’s a very comforting person to talk to. Of course, I’ll provide you with an introduction too.
good luck
Cynic
Eureka Springs @ 79
Pretty much demolishes the Abu Ghraib claim that it was “just a few bad apples,” doesn’t it?
Bob in HI
siun @ 158
I need to go back and re-read Years of Rice and Salt as well. It’s not a book one can slip into easily. I’ve known a couple of people who’d given up reading it because they found the structure of the book too challenging, which is too bad. I thought the book had a lot to say.
ah kristine – we can read it together! my son and a friend adore it and quote it often …
good to meet you here!
NorskeFlamethrower:
And it is the young women of the country who are stepping up! (not to disparage the contribution of any of the young men or the “older women,”) but my son’s girl-friend drags him to all the political events.
Yeah, the women in Vietnam (and I’m talking about the nurses) stepped up, and many of them died for it, but, but in this country, I’m told, they were few and far between. There was no Marla Ruzika who put her life on the line and went to the Song Valley. And no one I know who, like the young woman (and I am ashamed that I cannot remember her name) was sent to gitmo and told to torture people, and went out (sadly) and killed herself instead.
Ed*ard Teller @ 170
My sister married a Tlingit. He calls tourists “terrorists”.
Bob in HI
Siun @ 176
Glad meeting you as well.
Siun @ 140
I just got the 3rd in the global warming trilogy, haven’t read it yet. Agree on 3 CAs and Mars series.
lee5 – ah, another wise reader!
Good to meet you!
We’ll have to have a KSR post/discussion sometime!
Another shout out for KSR … love his books!
Bob Schacht @ 178
I know a couple of Alaska Natives who have only been to Alaska, Hawaii, Mexico and Central America. They have no desire to go to the lower 48 – ever. One calls the lower 48 “an evil planet.”
eyes of the world! welcome!
We really will need a KSR discussion … I’ll see what I can do!
{{{{Siun}}}}
ET – hugs to you too!
thank you.
Siun @ 186
I’ve almost finished Ilan Pappe’s The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. Hard to find the words. He would love to know what you’ve started here on Sunday afternoons.
ET – thank you, I will add that to my reading list. I am in the midst of Scahill’s Blackwater which is brilliant.
I know I’m late to the party, but I’ve been saying this over and over for years: We have placed our troops in moral jeopardy – by sending them into an immoral war.
Moral Jeopardy. New reality show. Called: Iraq.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 26
Voting machines in France and a right winger wins…Hmmm?… coincidence?
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/El….._in_France
Wrote a comment and lost it to digital hell. Essence being: this is what happens when the military and intelligence services become privatized. Started long before Shrub, but Cheney was in on this back as Secretary of Defense under George H.W. Bush…
Private Armies, Captive People (Warning, .PDF file)
O.K. I give up.
What does it mean if after posting a comment, it appears with a red background header (191 in this case) upon the auto refresh after clicking “submit”?
Thanks in advance.
Inhumane behavior is part of every war and confict. Brainwashing works. You train people to kill and maim with impugnity, and are horrified that there’s no “on” and “off” switch. The enemy is portrayed as sub-human. We Americans have at least SOME healthcare to return to if left alive. The Iraqis , as well as other Middle East countries don’t HAVE military hospitals for their own soldiers. They’re on their own. It’s madness to throw human beings into this meat grinder. Civilians are caught with nowhere to go. I wish someone would actually try regional diplomacy, for God’s sake.