zed

♥lOvE teh ZeD

Congratulations Snarkassandra!

Hi Phoenix Woman! got us some good dirt???

PW!

And now I have nothing else to add because I did not understand the post. Will sit and listen for a bit and enjoy my first zed. :)

lolo @ 3

Congratulations Snarkassandra!

And you beat lolo to get your first zed. Congrats, indeed!

OH. The Gridlock Myth myth. Like the Voter Fraud fraud. Same tool belt.

Congratulations SnarKassandra!

SnarKassandra @ 6

And now I have nothing else to add because I did not understand the post. Will sit and listen for a bit and enjoy my first zed. :)

Click on the links and all will be revealed. :-)

Short version: “Polls say that the public wants Dems to do MORE investigations and to do MORE opposition to Bush. Leon Panetta — who is supposed to be a Democrat — is pretending they say the opposite, and telling Harry and Nancy they need to cool their jets. Why?”

This Dem is not over-reaching. Hillary is under-reaching. And over-reaching at the same time. Sound familiar? Leon. I think it’s called triangulation, or some variation thereof.

gridlock audio (grdlk) KEY

NOUN:

1. A traffic jam in which no vehicular movement is possible, especially one caused by the blockage of key intersections within a grid of streets.
2. A complete lack of movement or progress resulting in a backup or stagnation: “the political gridlock that prevented … the President and Congress from moving expeditiously to cut the budget” (Robert D. Hormats).

http://education.yahoo.com/ref…..y/gridlock

Leon Panetta is right!

If Americans wanted more partisanship, how do you explain Joe Lieberman’s victory in Connecticut?

/channelling McCain, Cheney, et al.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 10

This Dem is not over-reaching. Hillary is under-reaching. And over-reaching at the same time. Sound familiar? Leon. I think it’s called triangulation, or some variation thereof.

Panetta’s giving somebody a reacharound, and I suspect his first name is “George”.

It worries me that some dems might actually be listening to this asshat panetta. I hope to god Nancy and Harry do not give an inch on the war appropriations. I want it to be crystal clear who’s war this is, come ‘08 there will be no way for the republic party to blame the dems.

Could this be part of his problem?

Panetta started politics in 1966 as a legislative assistant to Republican Senator Thomas Kuchel, the United States Senate Minority Whip from California, whom Panetta has called “a tremendous role model”

From wiki

I am beginning to suspect somebody is trying to make fools of some of us.

Panetta, and by association Hillary Clinton, seem to serve corporatist interests. “Gridlock” or “bipartisanship” is good for business because it maintains the status quo, which is currently defined by the corporate-friendly anti-worker economy put into place by Ronald Reagan.

Hillary Clinton may have liberal tendencies, but she seems very much to be courting the big money in this country. At best we can expect a Clinton presidency to resemble the previous one, where social issues may or may not be addressed but the economic policies will be bad for the average American.

So what, exactly, is his major malfunction? Whose agenda is he pushing, when he tries to undermine Nancy and Harry this way?

WAG – trying to show his wisdom/experience/pragmatism while angling for a campaign consultant job?

He is pushing the DLC agenda, which the
Dems must resist at all costs.
Listen to the voters. Do not suck
up to corporate interests.

Part of Panetta’s perspective is from his days in the Clinton White House as Chief of Staff when the government shut down over the budget clash between the White House and Gingrich’s Congress. By and large, most observers think the White House came out of that clash better off than the Congress, and Gingrich — not Clinton — took the blame for shutting down the government.

Does that mean that every time there’s a big confrontation between Congress and the White House over the budget, Congress will lose? No. But Panetta was at the middle of the biggest such confrontation in recent history, and I think he’s reading too much of that battle into the present one. As you note, the polls indicate that right now, the Dems have the support of the general public, and not by a couple of percentage points. That was clearly not the case in 1996.

I detest the DLC.

Panetta is turning into the go-to Chicken Little:

“Look, the American people expect you to fight for what you believe in,” says Leon Panetta, Mr. Clinton’s chief of staff in 1995. “But they don’t expect you to be stupid about it. If in the end, this is going to hurt our troops, [Democrats] have got to be very careful. There’s a point at which they are going to have to compromise.”

HoJo can’t do all the heavy lifting, dammit.

Panetta was the US Rep from the district just south of the bay area. He used to be a Republican (in the 60s)and is very close to the Clintons. I assume he thinks he’s helping HRC, but who knows. The D’s need to ignore him as they should ignore all the other consultants who seek to dilute the message of the voters in 11/06.

This has been said here b4, including by me…….but the real villains here are the craven tools at WaPoop. A month or so ago, Weisman had a front page article that said something about Bush “holding firm” against those pesty, anti-war (oh, THAT again) Democrats….and I had an e-mail exchange with him in which he said, in essence, that “holding firm” actually COULD be perceived as a pejorative term, and that I construed it otherwise only through the “prism” of my own political views.

So, tomorrow I’ll send another e-mail: “Yo, a**hole! Tell me how “Democrats Momentum is Stalling” is objective journalism that I’m distorting through MY prism, again?”

ok, now this is really OT, but here’s a post that got left behind last thread. so for what it’s worth (with same apologies for horrid formatting)….
*******

Off topic, but somewhat related: this is a kind of cross-post from a TPM Muckraker thread (see http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003157.php) on Bradley Schlozman’s phony voter fraud indictments in Missouri. Thought it might be of interest here as well, and maybe someone can shed additional light on it. Also, my comment there (under a different handle) is stuck in moderation, and in the meantime I hope to get more feedback. (Apologies in advance for what may be ugly formatting.)

Anyway, what sparked my interest was the claim that the indictments in Missouri of four voter registration workers just 5 days before the 2006 elections was approved by “officials in the department’s Public Integrity Section.” I found it somewhat hard to think that the Public Integrity I was familiar with — i.e., during Bush’s first term — would sign off on such a thing given the general policy of not bringing indictments so close to an election, among other things, absent turnover leading to the placement of hacks at Public Integrity.

paul lukasiak, who if I remember correctly comments here, noted that Public Integrity has a new chief (previous chief Noel Hillman, if you recall, was appointed to the bench). His name is Edward Nucci. I came up with these links on him which seem to give a rough recent chronology of his career:

http://www.bizjournals.com/sou…..ily72.html

http://memphis.fbi.gov/dojpres…..061306.htm

http://www.marchforjustice.com/8.11.02.fbi.php

His comments from the last link led me to think that Nucci might be more in the mold of a “loyal Bushie”, to the extent that he seemed to be much more aggressively defensive about how the Bush admin’s antiterrorism investigation methods are disparately and unfairly affecting Muslims and racial minorities:

—–
“Many things that I heard tonight I take issue with, if not offense,”said Edward Nucci, of the U.S. Attorney’s office. “I don’t think it helps advance our understanding of each others concerns,” he said, responding to the issues raised by the panel and community of racial profiling, institutional racism and the U.S. Attorney’s office being labeled as racist.

“Concepts like dual process, equal protection, reasonableness, they vary in context,” and should be taken into consideration, Mr. Nucci said, dismissing the earlier assertion of Mr. Rameu concerning the profiling and targeting of non-Whites, Arabs and Muslims.

—-
Granted, his comments here are brief, so it may be unfair to draw any conclusions from them, but the FBI agent quoted later seemed to be somewhat more conciliatory, which shows to me that he didn’t have to be so aggressive about his defense of the investigative methods.

Anyway, if anyone has any thoughts or insight into Nucci, and his relationship, if any, to Schlozman and the Missouri voting fraud business, would be much appreciated. And paul, if you’re reading this, my response is still stuck in moderation at TPM Muckraker!

OT-But not really. Richardson has a post on HuffPo saying that Congress can end the war tomorrow by de-authorizing it. Hillary is introducing something like that but not fo r a few months. Overreaching??? I think not. End this war tomorrow. For the sake of our soldiers and for the sake of this country.

He’s just irked because the ISG report was treated with complete indifference by…well, everyone. They interviewed Tom Friedman but nobody who had the good judgment to oppose the war in the first place, for fuck’s sake. What did he expect?

I do not like Carville, Panetta, Rubin, Emanuel, and a bunch more.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 28

I do not like Carville, Panetta, Rubin, Emanuel, and a bunch more.

WORD!!!

puppethead @ 17

Panetta, and by association Hillary Clinton, seem to serve corporatist interests. “Gridlock” or “bipartisanship” is good for business because it maintains the status quo, which is currently defined by the corporate-friendly anti-worker economy put into place by Ronald Reagan.

Hillary Clinton may have liberal tendencies, but she seems very much to be courting the big money in this country. At best we can expect a Clinton presidency to resemble the previous one, where social issues may or may not be addressed but the economic policies will be bad for the average American.

Bingo. And Peterr is probably right too. Leon is projecting his own stuff onto the present state of the state. He’s DLC through to the core. Run, don’t walk away from him and all the rest of the corporate shills.

Hi Cassie! How’s things? and congrats, your first zed?

Peterr @ 20

Part of Panetta’s perspective is from his days in the Clinton White House as Chief of Staff when the government shut down over the budget clash between the White House and Gingrich’s Congress. By and large, most observers think the White House came out of that clash better off than the Congress, and Gingrich — not Clinton — took the blame for shutting down the government.

Does that mean that every time there’s a big confrontation between Congress and the White House over the budget, Congress will lose? No. But Panetta was at the middle of the biggest such confrontation in recent history, and I think he’s reading too much of that battle into the present one. As you note, the polls indicate that right now, the Dems have the support of the general public, and not by a couple of percentage points. That was clearly not the case in 1996.

Exactly. People in 1995 and 1996 knew that Newt was full of crap. They also know now that Bush is full of crap — he’s at a 28% approval rating, for Pete’s sake. Bill Clinton’s ratings never went that low.

“Whose agenda is he pushing, when he tries to undermine Nancy and Harry this way?”

Sounds like standard DLC crap to me. Rahm Emmanuel?

Bob in HI

Jane Hamsher @ 27

He’s just irked because the ISG report was treated with complete indifference by…well, everyone. They interviewed Tom Friedman but nobody who had the good judgment to oppose the war in the first place, for fuck’s sake. What did he expect?

Yeah, what did they expect? Everyone who hates the Iraq Occupation saw the ISG for exactly what it was, a masturbatory exercise. And we all knew Bush the Lesser would immediately ignore it, so it served even less purpose. Oh gee, the DFH crowd was right again, huh? It must really peeve the self-appointed intellectual giants like Panetta.

Jane Hamsher @ 27

He’s just irked because the ISG report was treated with complete indifference by…well, everyone. They interviewed Tom Friedman but nobody who had the good judgment to oppose the war in the first place, for fuck’s sake. What did he expect?

Yup. The whole reason for the ISG was to give the Boy-King a relatively dignified escape hatch from Iraq. Bush’s response was to call it a “flaming turd”. The American people know that there’s no point in trying to coddle someone like Bush; he needs the Congressional version of the swat on the nose with the rolled-up newspaper.

I voted for Bill Clinton twice. And have no regrets about that. In retrospect, Mr. Clinton was not my kind of Democrat.

I actually have that button…

PW are these DLC talking points via Panetta or from HRC?

Hi Jane!

OT In PA. The vote is tomorrow but it looks like I’ll be moving. We made an offer on a house. We shall see. It’s in Sestack’s CD!

Now to plug into the PA Roots group and make some connections.

I remain supportive of our Speaker.

dakine01 @ 15

Could this be part of his problem?

Panetta started politics in 1966 as a legislative assistant to Republican Senator Thomas Kuchel, the United States Senate Minority Whip from California, whom Panetta has called “a tremendous role model”

From wiki

I read that as “legislative asshat”. Go figure.

puppethead @ 33

Jane Hamsher @ 27

He’s just irked because the ISG report was treated with complete indifference by…well, everyone. They interviewed Tom Friedman but nobody who had the good judgment to oppose the war in the first place, for fuck’s sake. What did he expect?

Yeah, what did they expect? Everyone who hates the Iraq Occupation saw the ISG for exactly what it was, a masturbatory exercise. And we all knew Bush the Lesser would immediately ignore it, so it served even less purpose. Oh gee, the DFH crowd was right again, huh? It must really peeve the self-appointed intellectual giants like Panetta.

All of Daddy’s friends got together to slap Junya around and tell him what he really ought to do. Yeah that was gonna work.

Leon does not seem to understand that if congress is Democratic then IF Bush wants ANYTHING passed then HE needs to comprimise! Hi Cassie!

puppethead @ 17

Panetta, and by association Hillary Clinton, seem to serve corporatist interests. “Gridlock” or “bipartisanship” is good for business because it maintains the status quo, which is currently defined by the corporate-friendly anti-worker economy put into place by Ronald Reagan.

Hillary Clinton may have liberal tendencies, but she seems very much to be courting the big money in this country. At best we can expect a Clinton presidency to resemble the previous one, where social issues may or may not be addressed but the economic policies will be bad for the average American.

Welcome Senator, is impeachment still off the table?

RevDeb @ 38

Hi Jane!

OT In PA. The vote is tomorrow but it looks like I’ll be moving. We made an offer on a house. We shall see. It’s in Sestack’s CD!

Now to plug into the PA Roots group and make some connections.

Hi RevDeb! What, you moving? MASS won’t be the same.

oddmommy @ 24

This has been said here b4, including by me…….but the real villains here are the craven tools at WaPoop. A month or so ago, Weisman had a front page article that said something about Bush “holding firm” against those pesty, anti-war (oh, THAT again) Democrats….and I had an e-mail exchange with him in which he said, in essence, that “holding firm” actually COULD be perceived as a pejorative term, and that I construed it otherwise only through the “prism” of my own political views.

So, tomorrow I’ll send another e-mail: “Yo, a**hole! Tell me how “Democrats Momentum is Stalling” is objective journalism that I’m distorting through MY prism, again?”

Who wrote the column about Dem’s Stalling? Interesting, that on c-span this AM, Pedro used that as his talking point. And limited the callers to Dems. Most callers thought the article was nuts and some wondered why Pedro had wanted to focus on it.

Josh Marshall picks up on the McKay/Wales connection. Calls Wale’s murder an assassination. Links to WaPo.

The plot gets thicker by the day, doesn’t it?

I have often suspected that so-called “Democratic strategists” are actually working for the other side.

They told Gore and Kerry not to say this, not to do that, until both men were utterly paralyzed and unable to be themselves or be honest about who they were. Then the other side derided them for being “wooden”. Strategists advised Kerry not to contest that stolen election, lest he appear to be a “sore loser”. Don’t rock the boat, they said, don’t hurt the party. Think about that next election—just make nice for now, be a good little Democrat, and maybe NEXT TIME….

Dem candidates should all get a backbone—and the first step toward backbone-acquisition ought to be giving old-line party hacks the royal boot. Let’s hear some REAL ideas from REAL people, for a change. And don’t back down when the other side attacks what you’ve said: come back and say it harder.

Oh, fuck The Post.

Corporatist appeasement.

“Nothing to see here, easily swayed electorate! Let the Head Looters In Charge continue with their ordained-on-high malfeasance…and go shopping!“

;>)

Eli @ 36

I actually have that button…

Maybe its a chicken and egg thing, but I’ve seen the quote on that button in a cartoon (New Yorker?) The setting is a board room table. Sitting around the table are a bunch of men with heads all the same shape except for one, who is leaning back and smiling. The speaker is a very cross-looking person at the head of the table.

Its one of my favorite cartoons.

Bob in HI

pheonix women, this post you authored is SPOT on

since hilary was a guest here I think somebody should get this thread over to her including comments

I’ve said this before;

EVERY time a democrat critisizes the president or vice president, EVERY time they embarrass the administration, that democrats approval rating SOARS

this country YEARNS for the oversite that has been missing from the fascist policies of this administration

for instance, clinton’s stock SOARED when she announced (or re anounced) her proposal to decommision the presidents “war” authority

feingolds approval ratings SOARED when he called the vice president a military moron, when he called the neo fascists that contructed this war military morons

web’s approval ratings SOARED when he EMBARRASED the president

democrats, pay SPECIAL heed, this country NEEDS you and WANTS you to call the fascists in the administation OUT

The reason the DLC does not like progressives and liberals is because they are afraid and know we will come after them should we have the chance and expose this group for what they are.

Eli @ 40

dakine01 @ 15

Could this be part of his problem?

Panetta started politics in 1966 as a legislative assistant to Republican Senator Thomas Kuchel, the United States Senate Minority Whip from California, whom Panetta has called “a tremendous role model”

From wiki

I read that as “legislative asshat”. Go figure.

Bottomline for me is that he is coming at things from an old-time Republican perspective. He’s maybe been a Dem since the early ’70s, but his heart is still Republican and to the right of most of the things I always believed Dems stand for.

darkblack @ 49

Corporatist appeasement.

“Nothing to see here, easily swayed electorate! Let the Head Looters In Charge continue with their ordained-on-high malfeasance…and go shopping!“

;>)

I went shopping.

*hangs head*

Jane Hamsher @ 44

RevDeb @ 38

Hi Jane!

OT In PA. The vote is tomorrow but it looks like I’ll be moving. We made an offer on a house. We shall see. It’s in Sestack’s CD!

Now to plug into the PA Roots group and make some connections.

Hi RevDeb! What, you moving? MASS won’t be the same.

Yeppers. All but signed and sealed. That should happen tomorrow. So anytime you are near Philly, you will have to come over. Big house, plenty of room and fenced in yard for the trio.

“So what, exactly, is his major malfunction? Whose agenda is he pushing…”

Clinton’s?

That was a question, wasn’t it?

From where does the DLC get it’s operating money? What does the DLC promote?

TRex @ 54

I went shopping.

*hangs head*

A boy needs shoes

;>)

Jane Hamsher @ 44

RevDeb @ 38

Hi Jane!

OT In PA. The vote is tomorrow but it looks like I’ll be moving. We made an offer on a house. We shall see. It’s in Sestack’s CD!

Now to plug into the PA Roots group and make some connections.

Hi RevDeb! What, you moving? MASS won’t be the same.

Neither will PA.

;)

oddmommy @ 24

This has been said here b4, including by me…….but the real villains here are the craven tools at WaPoop. A month or so ago, Weisman had a front page article that said something about Bush “holding firm” against those pesty, anti-war (oh, THAT again) Democrats….and I had an e-mail exchange with him in which he said, in essence, that “holding firm” actually COULD be perceived as a pejorative term, and that I construed it otherwise only through the “prism” of my own political views.

So, tomorrow I’ll send another e-mail: “Yo, a**hole! Tell me how “Democrats Momentum is Stalling” is objective journalism that I’m distorting through MY prism, again?”

This is what I posted in comments on the Wapo article itself:

his reminds me on the famous quote from JFK – asked at a news conference if he was aware that concensus among Republicans was that his administration was a failure, he quipped, I bet it was unanimous.

So Jon Kyl thinks the Democrats will have trouble if they can’t get past GOP obstruction. He’s certainly what I’d call an unbiased observer.

Do you guys simply retype the Republican press releases, or do you take a few minutes to reword them as well?

Anyone listen to that schmuck Harold Ford on Bill Maher? Sean Penn was so passionate and Harold Ford was like an automaton merging GOP talking points with every trite phrase in the world. The worst lie he told was Al Queada being most of the insurgents in Iraq. Can you believe that remark. Almost makes one glad he lost. Mr DLC himself!

If you look at the Clinton “alumni club” and where they all are now, most of them are working for the corps and lobbyists and making big bucks. Follow the money. They never really did anything while in office to build up the party and certainly tried to find other corp. friendly dems to run rather than real liberals or progressives.

It took me a long time to realize this and I’m pretty well informed. Dems for the most part do not put these pieces together. Most of the voting public doesn’t know the difference.

TRex @ 48

Oh, fuck The Post.

Hemimgway would be proud.

Eli @ 36

I actually have that button…

So do I. I was goofing around with the macro setting of my new digital camera and hauled out one of my many old buttons.

My desire is to say adios DLC. Who needs ya!?

Phoenix Woman @ 64

Eli @ 36

I actually have that button…

So do I. I was goofing around with the macro setting of my new digital camera and hauled out one of my many old buttons.

I wish I knew what happened to my “Go ahead, chew my clothes off” button…

TRex @ 48

Oh, fuck The Post.

Dude. Gimme a BREAK. This is a one-horse town when it comes to newspapers…..and I’m old enough that I NEED to start my day with some good old fashioned print on my fingers.

Alice B @ 61

Anyone listen to that schmuck Harold Ford on Bill Maher? Sean Penn was so passionate and Harold Ford was like an automaton merging GOP talking points with every trite phrase in the world. The worst lie he told was Al Queada being most of the insurgents in Iraq. Can you believe that remark. Almost makes one glad he lost. Mr DLC himself!

Between you, me, and the lamp post, I’m glad he lost. We seem to have made the numbers without him and in any other era he would be a loyal repug.

Just to add:

It lowers expectations about her. Seems her agenda, at times, is a lot like whatshisname.

Jane Hamsher @ 44

RevDeb @ 38

Hi Jane!

OT In PA. The vote is tomorrow but it looks like I’ll be moving. We made an offer on a house. We shall see. It’s in Sestack’s CD!

Now to plug into the PA Roots group and make some connections.

Hi RevDeb! What, you moving? MASS won’t be the same.

we are very jealous of the people of PA. :(

darkblack @ 49

Corporatist appeasement.

“Nothing to see here, easily swayed electorate! Let the Head Looters In Charge continue with their ordained-on-high malfeasance…and go shopping!“

;>)

Sounds about right to me. Military-Industrial Complex anyone?

Alice B @ 61

Anyone listen to that schmuck Harold Ford on Bill Maher? Sean Penn was so passionate and Harold Ford was like an automaton merging GOP talking points with every trite phrase in the world. The worst lie he told was Al Queada being most of the insurgents in Iraq. Can you believe that remark. Almost makes one glad he lost. Mr DLC himself!

Harold Ford. Don’t. Get. Me. Started.

selise @ 70

we are very jealous of the people of PA. :(

Pittsburgh is the most livable city in America, you know.

Leon Panetta is an asshole. I first saw him at constituent greeter he had at a high school in Santa Cruz in the mid ’80s. He was pontificating about the evils of the contras (which I knew well) too a very receptive audience. A Central American fellow stood up to question Panetta’s blanket endorsement of the Sandinistas. Panetta rose up, pounded the table and shouted him down before he could finish speaking. This in front of a totally friendly audience. After the young man had been shouted out of the auditorium, Panetta sat there w/ a look like he had just conquered a great warrior. I left. With friends like that, I thought, who needs enemies.

Panetta is a tame Democrat. That’s why he made it on to the ISG panel.

From the last thread, a transcript of Comey’s press conference on Padilla can be found here:

http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..s-enemies/

The key quote for me is this:

Had we tried to make a case against Jose Padilla through our criminal justice system, something that I, as the United States attorney in New York, could not do at that time without jeopardizing intelligence sources, he would very likely have followed his lawyer’s advice and said nothing, which would have been his constitutional right.

So Comey didn’t have a case and rather than follow the Constitution he decided a la Jack Bauer that he needed to serve a higher good, one that wasn’t in the job description, one in which the rule of law didn’t play much of a role. I have difficulties in squaring Comey’s image as a straight arrow with this.

Phoenix Woman @ 64

Eli @ 36

I actually have that button…

So do I. I was goofing around with the macro setting of my new digital camera and hauled out one of my many old buttons.

I still have my old McGovern for President button. I also have a “peanut” with the Carter face.

And I have two buttons that are perfect for little boots: hands pointing in both directions and the caption “Forge Ahead!”

TRex @ 54

darkblack @ 49

Corporatist appeasement.

“Nothing to see here, easily swayed electorate! Let the Head Looters In Charge continue with their ordained-on-high malfeasance…and go shopping!“

;>)

I went shopping.

*hangs head*

SPEW Alert

If Senator Clinton wins the WH the DLC will become stronger.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 35

I voted for Bill Clinton twice. And have no regrets about that. In retrospect, Mr. Clinton was not my kind of Democrat.

He wasn’t my kind of Democrat at that time, but he was a hell of a lot better than any Republican, and Bill knew how to win.

Phoenix Woman @ 72

Alice B @ 61

Anyone listen to that schmuck Harold Ford on Bill Maher? Sean Penn was so passionate and Harold Ford was like an automaton merging GOP talking points with every trite phrase in the world. The worst lie he told was Al Queada being most of the insurgents in Iraq. Can you believe that remark. Almost makes one glad he lost. Mr DLC himself!

Harold Ford. Don’t. Get. Me. Started.

The only reason to wish he hadn’t lost is that with him in the Senate the Dems could lock Lieberman in a closet without worrying that he’ll take his ball and go home.

Plus, really, Bob Corker?

dakine01 @ 76

I still have my old McGovern for President button. I have a “peanut” with the Carter face.

And I have two buttons that are perfect for little boots: hands pointing in both directions and the caption “Forge Ahead!”

I, um, have a Nixon-Agnew button. I got it second-hand, tho…

closing tags if I can

Ooops! Mixed up my links. The Comey presser is here:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/06…..ranscript/

PW, What is your theory as to why Panetta is behaving like he is?

I e-mailed him about a month ago, and while he was polite, he sounded like he thought I was way out in left field.

Leon is warning US and the Dems that Corporate Money which buys advertising is probably thinking about supporting/paying for with advertising Dollars another big Main Stream Media proBush/AntiLiberal media campaign. Unless of course we start “comprimising” and get laws? a budget? maybe more military spending passed? What exactly are the Democrats holding up that his Corporate friends want passed? Or is what concerns him something he does not want the Democrats to pass a reform of Bankrupcy law, Payday loan restrictions? Who is buttering Leon’s toast now? I need a scorecard to keep up with all the fake Dems conflicts of interests!

Eli @ 81

dakine01 @ 76

I still have my old McGovern for President button. I have a “peanut” with the Carter face.

And I have two buttons that are perfect for little boots: hands pointing in both directions and the caption “Forge Ahead!”

I, um, have a Nixon-Agnew button. I got it second-hand, tho…

I used to have a sign that I got from McGovern HQ in NYC. It read:

Nixon has a secret plan for ending the war. He is going to vote for McGovern.

Eli @ 81

dakine01 @ 76

I still have my old McGovern for President button. I have a “peanut” with the Carter face.

And I have two buttons that are perfect for little boots: hands pointing in both directions and the caption “Forge Ahead!”

I, um, have a Nixon-Agnew button. I got it second-hand, tho…

I think we may have had one in the house at one time but it was only to save for my brother who had (has?) a polical campaign button collection. He prol’ly does still have it as he seems to have become a total wing-nutter/ditto head.

I plan to hear him speak end of the month at santa Clara University.

IRT Harold Ford: He voted for the Military Commisions Act. I don’t care what party he is. That’s a deal breaker for me.

Mutant Poodle @ 80

Phoenix Woman @ 72

Alice B @ 61

Anyone listen to that schmuck Harold Ford on Bill Maher? Sean Penn was so passionate and Harold Ford was like an automaton merging GOP talking points with every trite phrase in the world. The worst lie he told was Al Queada being most of the insurgents in Iraq. Can you believe that remark. Almost makes one glad he lost. Mr DLC himself!

Harold Ford. Don’t. Get. Me. Started.

The only reason to wish he hadn’t lost is that with him in the Senate the Dems could lock Lieberman in a closet without worrying that he’ll take his ball and go home.

Plus, really, Bob Corker?

We really don’t have to worry about LIEberman taking anything and going anywhere. He is practically irrelevant now and come 2009 he can sit in the corner all by himself and amuse himself because no one else will want to have anything to do with him.

Fortunately Harry Reid knew how to write the organizing resolutions for this Senate to render JoeLIE effectively neutered.

hi again

Loo Hoo @ 84

PW, What is your theory as to why Panetta is behaving like he is?

I e-mailed him about a month ago, and while he was polite, he sounded like he thought I was way out in left field.

Loo Hoo, see my comment @ 15. According to wiki, he was a republican and worked in the Nixon admin before switching parties. I said earlier, his heart is not a Democratic heart.

Mr. Panetta sounds strangely like Joe Benedict Arnold Lieberman. Leon has become a scold. He also has no concept at all of the internet.

Ghostman

Hi Cassie!

I am so stinking tired of so called centrist Demos. What is a center Demomcrat anyway? Perhaps a moderate Republican?

Cassandra @ 47

I have often suspected that so-called “Democratic strategists” are actually working for the other side.

They told Gore and Kerry not to say this, not to do that, until both men were utterly paralyzed and unable to be themselves or be honest about who they were. Then the other side derided them for being “wooden”. Strategists advised Kerry not to contest that stolen election, lest he appear to be a “sore loser”. Don’t rock the boat, they said, don’t hurt the party. Think about that next election—just make nice for now, be a good little Democrat, and maybe NEXT TIME….

Dem candidates should all get a backbone—and the first step toward backbone-acquisition ought to be giving old-line party hacks the royal boot. Let’s hear some REAL ideas from REAL people, for a change. And don’t back down when the other side attacks what you’ve said: come back and say it harder.

There is a titanic battle going on right now for the soul of the Democratic Party. I agree with your assessment that the DLC was a millstone around the neck of Gore and then Kerry. If Hillary wins the primaries, the DLC will have won.

But the opposition to the DLC is divided. What unity it has is the netroots. People like us. If Obama wins, they will try to seduce him, and may succeed in sucking the lifeblood out of him. They will try to do the same to whoever wins the nomination. They will dangle bundles of money as bait.

Edwards knows the score on this, as does Gore, of course. Edwards has the best ties to the netroots, IMHO. Obama is cultivating a new generation netroots. They have got to have a strategy for dealing with the DLC if they win the nomination that will enable them to resist the siren songs of the DLC.

Bill Clinton’s genius was that he figured out how to use the DLC without being its slave. But even he sold out in a number of ways.

Bob in HI

Loo Hoo @ 84

PW, What is your theory as to why Panetta is behaving like he is?

I e-mailed him about a month ago, and while he was polite, he sounded like he thought I was way out in left field.

I wish I knew, Loo Hoo.

RevDeb @ 89 says:

We really don’t have to worry about LIEberman taking anything and going anywhere. He is practically irrelevant now and come 2009 he can sit in the corner all by himself and amuse himself because no one else will want to have anything to do with him.

Fortunately Harry Reid knew how to write the organizing resolutions for this Senate to render JoeLIE effectively neutered.

Which may be why Harry acquiesced to HoJo and let him have the Homeland Security committee, knowing that Waxman would be able to take up any slack. I have to believe that Madame Speaker and Mr Majority Leader and their staffs are in VERY close communications.

RevDeb @ 92

Hi Cassie!

Where are you moving to?

Remember, now that the Republicans have sullied their brand, they will try and have Republicans change party and run as Democrats. Easier to win as a changed party candidate than as a f**king republican. I have noticed that the candidates who are running in the local elections here, seem to have the label “Democrat” in big bold letters and Republicans don’t have any label on their ads. I am from Murtha’s District….excuse me for bragging.

dakine01 @ 97

RevDeb @ 89 says:

We really don’t have to worry about LIEberman taking anything and going anywhere. He is practically irrelevant now and come 2009 he can sit in the corner all by himself and amuse himself because no one else will want to have anything to do with him.

Fortunately Harry Reid knew how to write the organizing resolutions for this Senate to render JoeLIE effectively neutered.

Which may be why Harry acquiesced to HoJo and let him have the Homeland Security committee, knowing that Waxman would be able to take up any slack. I have to believe that Madame Speaker and Mr Majority Leader and their staffs are in VERY close communications.

Yes. St. Henry the WaxMan is the antidote to HoJo. A POWERFUL antidote.

SnarKassandra @ 91

hi again

Welcome back. I’ve been lurking and de-lurking – Dodgers are beating the Braves, one of the few teams I like less than the Angelenos. And yes, I live in LA.

SnarKassandra @ 98

RevDeb @ 92

Hi Cassie!

Where are you moving to?

Outside of Philadelphia. I met the church youth group last night. Awesome! and I told them about you. Hope you are doing well. Maybe I can steer a bit of traffic to your blog.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 57

From where does the DLC get it’s operating money? What does the DLC promote?

The DLC was financed by the strategic plan of Terry McAuliffe. The whole K-Street Lobby idea began with him. Under the Republicans, they took the K-Street Lobby idea and fed it on steroids. DLC represents Big Money.

Bob in HI

SnarKassandra @ 6

And now I have nothing else to add because I did not understand the post. Will sit and listen for a bit and enjoy my first zed. :)

Congrats, Snarkassandra, (((Whoa))) All the FDL Literati are commenting on your first Zed Thread!!! Rad!!! Aloha from the Aina Pups!!! *g*

RevDeb @ 90

We really don’t have to worry about LIEberman taking anything and going anywhere. He is practically irrelevant now and come 2009 he can sit in the corner all by himself and amuse himself because no one else will want to have anything to do with him.

Fortunately Harry Reid knew how to write the organizing resolutions for this Senate to render JoeLIE effectively neutered.

Well, if by “corner” you mean “on Fox News all the time”. I think of that as the sewer.

Mutant Poodle @ 100

SnarKassandra @ 91

hi again

Welcome back. I’ve been lurking and de-lurking – Dodgers are beating the Braves, one of the few teams I like less than the Angelenos. And yes, I live in LA.

I was eating and then on the phone.

Phoenix Woman @ 95

Loo Hoo @ 84

PW, What is your theory as to why Panetta is behaving like he is?

I e-mailed him about a month ago, and while he was polite, he sounded like he thought I was way out in left field.

I wish I knew, Loo Hoo.

PW — are you famous that you have the email adds of people like this?

RevDeb — Cute new animal pix at my site. And lots of new posts this past week at http://youthinkleft.com

Bob Schacht@ 96

There is a titanic battle going on right now for the soul of the Democratic Party. I agree with your assessment that the DLC was a millstone around the neck of Gore and then Kerry. If Hillary wins the primaries, the DLC will have won.

But the opposition to the DLC is divided. What unity it has is the netroots. People like us. If Obama wins, they will try to seduce him, and may succeed in sucking the lifeblood out of him. They will try to do the same to whoever wins the nomination. They will dangle bundles of money as bait.

Edwards knows the score on this, as does Gore, of course. Edwards has the best ties to the netroots, IMHO. Obama is cultivating a new generation netroots. They have got to have a strategy for dealing with the DLC if they win the nomination that will enable them to resist the siren songs of the DLC.

Bill Clinton’s genius was that he figured out how to use the DLC without being its slave. But even he sold out in a number of ways.

Well, said, sir. I don’t condone selling out in any way…..and I don’t like Hillary….but given the extreme circumstances we are in I don’t see how we can win without finding a way to work with EVERY resource we have……within reason.

I will be hearing him speak at Santa Clara University end of this month.

SnarKassandra @ 108

RevDeb — Cute new animal pix at my site. And lots of new posts this past week at http://youthinkleft.com

You e-mailed me all the animal pix. Yes. cute.

Haven’t had time this week to catch up on anything other than meeting the folks in the new church. I may never catch up!

Sometimes when I don’t understand something, I do research.

Eli @ 36

I actually have that button…

Anyone else have the daisy sticker, white with blue in the middle for Eugene McCarthy?

Um, actually, anyone else REMEMBER it?

Hillary and the DLC are joined at the ‘brain’, and the pocketbook.

CTuttle @ 105

SnarKassandra @ 6

And now I have nothing else to add because I did not understand the post. Will sit and listen for a bit and enjoy my first zed. :)

Congrats, Snarkassandra, (((Whoa))) All the FDL Literati are commenting on your first Zed Thread!!! Rad!!! Aloha from the Aina Pups!!! *g*

Good evening CTuttle

“SEND IT BACK” – J.Edwards

Leon and the DLC seem to share with the GOP a view of the people that we are an uneducated mob who must not become really involved in politics. The GOP would turn us into a nation of southern plantations by ussing their divide and conquer strategy poor whites against blacks, FundeMENTALISTs vs non believers plus fear lets not forget that. The DLC would be nicer they would pay us better but they want to keep the reigns of power firmly in their own hands. If the DLC which has many of the same probusiness ideas as the GOP had only fought the GOP harder most Americans would still not care about politics. The DLC did not fight Bush on the war, FAILURE at war is getting America interested in politics because OUR interests are threatened. The DLC now needs Bush to have a “WIN ” in Iraq as much as the GOP does!

lolo @ 116

CTuttle @ 105

SnarKassandra @ 6

And now I have nothing else to add because I did not understand the post. Will sit and listen for a bit and enjoy my first zed. :)

Congrats, Snarkassandra, (((Whoa))) All the FDL Literati are commenting on your first Zed Thread!!! Rad!!! Aloha from the Aina Pups!!! *g*

Good evening CTuttle

Evening, lolo, I noticed you were ooh so close on a few threads, but, you’re still the Zed Meister!!!

TRex @ 48

Oh, fuck The Post.

Where’d that come from, T? Just in general?

If we accept that the DLC represents big money, and I believe they do, how does this mesh with traditional Democratic values?

Peterr @ 20

Part of Panetta’s perspective is from his days in the Clinton White House as Chief of Staff when the government shut down over the budget clash between the White House and Gingrich’s Congress. By and large, most observers think the White House came out of that clash better off than the Congress, and Gingrich — not Clinton — took the blame for shutting down the government.

Does that mean that every time there’s a big confrontation between Congress and the White House over the budget, Congress will lose? No. But Panetta was at the middle of the biggest such confrontation in recent history, and I think he’s reading too much of that battle into the present one. As you note, the polls indicate that right now, the Dems have the support of the general public, and not by a couple of percentage points. That was clearly not the case in 1996.

Panetta seems to forget that Clinton’s approval ratings were never this low, not even close. I say he is a tool, because he obviously isn’t that sharp of a political operator. He is another DLC’er. A wolf in sheep’s clothing. He wants to ruin the Democratic party.

Peterr @ 59

Jane Hamsher @ 44

RevDeb @ 38

Hi Jane!

OT In PA. The vote is tomorrow but it looks like I’ll be moving. We made an offer on a house. We shall see. It’s in Sestack’s CD!

Now to plug into the PA Roots group and make some connections.

Hi RevDeb! What, you moving? MASS won’t be the same.

Neither will PA.

;)

Ain’t that the truth.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 120

If we accept that the DLC represents big money, and I believe they do, how does this mesh with traditional Democratic values?

It doesn’t. It never did. Look at the present DLC chair. Harold Ford Jr. was gay bashing last fall. He trying to out Republican Corker on that issue.

Two things I very much want to rid my party of. Joe Lieberman and the DLC.

Joe Klein’s conscience @ 121

Panetta seems to forget that Clinton’s approval ratings were never this low, not even close. I say he is a tool, because he obviously isn’t that sharp of a political operator. He is another DLC’er. A wolf in sheep’s clothing. He wants to ruin the Democratic party.

The DLC doesn’t consciously want to ruin the Democratic party – they just want to reclaim it from the unwashed rabble.

Snarkassandra,
Balkinization
is an interesting blog written by a group of lawyers, I believe they’re law professors.
It’s not boring at all, and I always learn something. (I am most definitely not a lawyer!)

EPU’d message for Cassie

Eli @ 124

Joe Klein’s conscience @ 121

Panetta seems to forget that Clinton’s approval ratings were never this low, not even close. I say he is a tool, because he obviously isn’t that sharp of a political operator. He is another DLC’er. A wolf in sheep’s clothing. He wants to ruin the Democratic party.

The DLC doesn’t consciously want to ruin the Democratic party – they just want to reclaim it from the unwashed rabble.

Yes, they want nothing to do with the DFHs that they imagine us to be.

You know, this post really cries out for Spotlighting. Great job!

Leon’s having too many 1998 flashbacks.

lolo @ 124

Snarkassandra,
Balkinization
is an interesting blog written by a group of lawyers, I believe they’re law professors.
It’s not boring at all, and I always learn something. (I am most definitely not a lawyer!)

EPU’d message for Cassie

what is the link?

Loo Hoo @ 84

PW, What is your theory as to why Panetta is behaving like he is?

I e-mailed him about a month ago, and while he was polite, he sounded like he thought I was way out in left field.

He is a corporatist. I believe he is on a few corporate boards now. The funny thing is, the 2nd richest man in America is pretty damn progressive, probably one of the very few of that stature.

Off to dinner. Later, pups.

SnarKassandra @ 129

lolo @ 124

Snarkassandra,
Balkinization
is an interesting blog written by a group of lawyers, I believe they’re law professors.
It’s not boring at all, and I always learn something. (I am most definitely not a lawyer!)

EPU’d message for Cassie

what is the link?

Try this.

With all due respect to fdl. Gridlock is no myth. The American public handed the Reps their shoehorn when they got tired of having to do the endless hard word of squaring the circle of making sense of the political speak of wash. that really has degenerated into a with us against us mentality that people on the extremes cannot see. Part of why TPMs work has such traction is that it driven by facts, relentless factfinding. Look at the exit polls it was not a Dem. mandate it was a mandate to end the war. The veto was the end of chapt. 1 and panetta is giving people who really want to see this thing over a few tips–don’t make it about politics, don’t make it about bush, make it about ending the war. check your reps schedule and make sure you’re there at his or her town meeting to ask him or her (on camera), how many u.s. casualties would they be willing to accept before they change their vote–regardless of what the others do. post to youtube. link to the webpage. that’s how we end this debacle. who cares about bush, it’s not his war anymore. it’s our war and we’d better own up to it.

Eli @ 125

But isn’t it the rabble that made the Democratic party? It’s not the corporate whores like the DLC. If we wanted to be corporate whores, we would have been Republiscum.

Time to call it a day. Gotta do my thing in the am. Big day tomorrow.

Good night all.

Makes you wonder how anyone could vote for a clinton any clinton

RevDeb @ 134

Time to call it a day. Gotta do my thing in the am. Big day tomorrow.

Good night all.

Good night. Happy new job!

Joe Klein’s conscience @ 124

Oklahoma kiddo @ 120

If we accept that the DLC represents big money, and I believe they do, how does this mesh with traditional Democratic values?

It doesn’t. It never did. Look at the present DLC chair. Harold Ford Jr. was gay bashing last fall. He trying to out Republican Corker on that issue.

I dislike Ford. More now than before.

RevDeb @ 128 says:

Yes, they want nothing to do with the DFHs that they imagine us to be.

Too bad for them. I’m guessing there are far more DFHs than DLCers. And I’m also guessing that most of us have managed to clean-up fairly well and can even look halfway presentable in public.

Leon Panetta? Wasn’t he one of the little people?

SnarKassandra @ 131

lolo @ 124

Snarkassandra,
Balkinization
is an interesting blog written by a group of lawyers, I believe they’re law professors.
It’s not boring at all, and I always learn something. (I am most definitely not a lawyer!)

EPU’d message for Cassie

what is the link?

linkylinky

Margo left you the message not me. I am the messenger.

Joe Klein’s conscience @ 135

Eli @ 125

But isn’t it the rabble that made the Democratic party? It’s not the corporate whores like the DLC. If we wanted to be corporate whores, we would have been Republiscum.

I think there are two strains of thought in the DLC: The DLCers who are pro-corporate to the core, and pretend that their corporatism is pragmatic centrism, and the DLCers who actually believe them.

But both groups believe that us commoners are totally screwing it up for them.

Eli @ 125

The DLC doesn’t consciously want to ruin the Democratic party – they just want to reclaim it from the unwashed rabble.

That would be us. :-)

things come undone @ 85

Leon is warning US and the Dems that Corporate Money which buys advertising is probably thinking about supporting/paying for with advertising Dollars another big Main Stream Media proBush/AntiLiberal media campaign. Unless of course we start “comprimising” and get laws? a budget? maybe more military spending passed? What exactly are the Democrats holding up that his Corporate friends want passed? Or is what concerns him something he does not want the Democrats to pass a reform of Bankrupcy law, Payday loan restrictions? Who is buttering Leon’s toast now? I need a scorecard to keep up with all the fake Dems conflicts of interests!

What it seems is that many citizens in govt are “warning” us about any tendencies that are too contrary to conventional wisdom, aka Official Story. Comey, in another thread at FDL, comes to mind. Panetta was also on the ISG, and was on C-SPAN (i think) with some Republican, advocating for us to accept the half-a-loaf it represented.

What are these warnings all about? It seems like code for something. Comey’s “I really miss DOJ” comment is parsed to be taken as “I was pushed out”. Am I crazy or are these coded messages a little too creepy? There is fear out there, fear of retaliation, fear of saying their truth in the open.

I guess this is why politics is so interesting. But the warnings…

Seems to me that they’re issued when the public gets a little too interested in, and perhaps too close to uncovering, the operators of the levers of power. And what is the biggest shift in power? The Dems have power of oversight. To subpoena. To investigate. To necessarily be contrary to the status quo. In BushCo Land, that’s a capital offense.

Someone powerful is scared.

Bush is full of crap — he’s at a 28% approval rating, for Pete’s sake.

as much as I’m loving the 28 per cent JAR, the same poll says HRC can beat any of the Repub contenders. So it’s hard for me to fully credit that particular poll. HRC isn’t going to beat anyone.

I think I’ll choose to believe the 28% part, because it makes me happy, and ignore the rest.

Phoenix Woman @ 145

Eli @ 125

The DLC doesn’t consciously want to ruin the Democratic party – they just want to reclaim it from the unwashed rabble.

That would be us. :-)

What!?! I resent that! I take my shower every morning whether I need it or not!

Phoenix Woman @ 145

Eli @ 125

The DLC doesn’t consciously want to ruin the Democratic party – they just want to reclaim it from the unwashed rabble.

That would be us. :-)

Nothing wrong with a little unwashed rabble. The DLC types have just spent too much time hanging out with clean-cut corporate hacks, that’s all.

jayt @ 144

Bush is full of crap — he’s at a 28% approval rating, for Pete’s sake.

as much as I’m loving the 28 per cent JAR, the same poll says HRC can beat any of the Repub contenders. So it’s hard for me to fully credit that particular poll. HRC isn’t going to beat anyone.

I think I’ll choose to believe the 28% part, because it makes me happy, and ignore the rest.

If he is at 28% then why are the dems giving him what he wants instead of being strong?

SnarKassandra @ 150

If he is at 28% then why are the dems giving him what he wants instead of being strong?

You’re still young enough not to understand, but some people, as middle age sets in, turn into pansies.

SnarKassandra @ 149

If he is at 28% then why are the dems giving him what he wants instead of being strong?

That’s what this post is about…

The DLC better hope a progressive or real Democrat, never captures the WH.

Eli @ 149

SnarKassandra @ 149

If he is at 28% then why are the dems giving him what he wants instead of being strong?

That’s what this post is about…

And it only took an hour!

bg @ 114

Anyone else have the daisy sticker, white with blue in the middle for Eugene McCarthy?

Um, actually, anyone else REMEMBER it?

No, I don’t remember it or have it, and I canvassed in Santa Fe for McCarthy when I was 14 or 15.
“Neat and clean for Gene.” lol

Oklahoma kiddo @ 152

The DLC better hope a progressive or real Democrat, never captures the WH.

Or anything else that conclusively proves that progressivism is more effective than centrism as a campaign strategy.

Of course, I kinda thought 2006 did…

SnarKassandra says
May 5th, 2007 at 7:17 pm

If he is at 28% then why are the dems giving him what he wants instead of being strong?

Well, that is what used to be known as the Sixty-Four Thousand Dollar Question.

(trying to shake off that nasty “God I’m old” vibe that just hit me.)

Our Countries problem is that being a millionaire, having an Ivy League School degree (even if you only got a gentlemen’s C) or being an obvious puppet for Corporate America has become the ticket to political advancment regardless of qualifications. Lying about your postions on the issues to get elected, the say anything to the masses campaign promises are meant to be broken attitude shows their contempt for Democracy! We need leaders who beleive in Democracy by the people. We have already seen the failure of a shamocracy rule by cough supposed elites!

Eli @ 156

Of course, I kinda thought 2006 did…

And here I thought Rahm Emanuel had saved the day by strategically choosing races to lose.

If he is at 28% then why are the dems giving him what he wants instead of being strong?

The sad answer is that the will of the majority does not dictate what the government does in these very sad times.

It’s not about party affiliation. It’s about ideology and goals.

oddmommy @ 160

The sad answer is that the will of the majority does not dictate what the government does in these very sad times.

You’re not likely to catch me saying that the will of the majority is always the best thing. Currently, it just happens that the majority has (finally!) come around to the correct realization that George W. Bush and his henchman-handlers are just about as phony and corrupt as you can be while existing in this space-time.

SnarKassandra @ 154

Eli @ 149

SnarKassandra @ 149

If he is at 28% then why are the dems giving him what he wants instead of being strong?

That’s what this post is about…

And it only took an hour!

But some people never figure it out. ;>)

Lying about your postions on the issues to get elected, the say anything to the masses campaign promises are meant to be broken attitude shows their contempt for Democracy.

I’ve already offered to do just that, running as a Republican, to show my contempt for *them*.

I figure if I were to get elected everything would be fine until the first time I voted on something.

Maybe I’d name my strategy “the Reverse One-and-a-Half Lieberman with a Twist”.

Someone powerful is scared.

I’m a little scared too. Corps have waaay too much to lose if the grassroots/netroots become powerful.

boc @ 146

things come undone @ 85

Leon is warning US and the Dems that Corporate Money which buys advertising is probably thinking about supporting/paying for with advertising Dollars another big Main Stream Media proBush/AntiLiberal media campaign. Unless of course we start “comprimising” and get laws? a budget? maybe more military spending passed? What exactly are the Democrats holding up that his Corporate friends want passed? Or is what concerns him something he does not want the Democrats to pass a reform of Bankrupcy law, Payday loan restrictions? Who is buttering Leon’s toast now? I need a scorecard to keep up with all the fake Dems conflicts of interests!

What it seems is that many citizens in govt are “warning” us about any tendencies that are too contrary to conventional wisdom, aka Official Story. Comey, in another thread at FDL, comes to mind. Panetta was also on the ISG, and was on C-SPAN (i think) with some Republican, advocating for us to accept the half-a-loaf it represented.

What are these warnings all about? It seems like code for something. Comey’s “I really miss DOJ” comment is parsed to be taken as “I was pushed out”. Am I crazy or are these coded messages a little too creepy? There is fear out there, fear of retaliation, fear of saying their truth in the open.

I guess this is why politics is so interesting. But the warnings…

Seems to me that they’re issued when the public gets a little too interested in, and perhaps too close to uncovering, the operators of the levers of power. And what is the biggest shift in power? The Dems have power of oversight. To subpoena. To investigate. To necessarily be contrary to the status quo. In BushCo Land, that’s a capital offense.

Someone powerful is scared.

but of what? That is the question driving me nuts!

slightly OT but tomorrow’s NY TImes has headline With New Clout, Antiwar Groups push Dems

jcsylvan @ 135

With all due respect to fdl. Gridlock is no myth. . . .

There’s a difference between the do-nothing, see nothing, hear nothing Republican dominated Congress, and what you are calling gridlock, which is actually not an accurate label. Have you already forgotten the bills passed during the ‘first 100 hours’? Besides, I would not call the series of hearings by Waxman, Leahy, et al. “gridlock.”

Actually, I suspect that our country works best when party control of Congress and the Presidency is divided [ducks behind couch]. Before you start throwing things, take the Hawaii State Legislature– Please! Majority Democrats by large numbers in both chambers. Should be good news, right? Not necessarily. We’ve got our own version of Blue Dog DLC Democrats here. Furthermore, many key decisions get made in caucus behind closed doors. That’s where the sausage-making is done. We’ve had Clean Elections bills in the last 8 years, like the one in Arizona. Every year, it dies a mysterious death somewhere in the process. It is always done in such a way that you can’t figure out who’s killing it. And that’s despite having grassroots support for 8 years in a row. It’s pretty disgusting.

Bob in HI

Exactly how would a Democratic president, assuming he or she wanted to, fire the DLC?

Oklahoma kiddo @ 169

Exactly how would a Democratic president, assuming he or she wanted to, fire the DLC?

Ignore their advice and let them wither away for lack of influence.

Margot: “Neat and clean for Gene.”

Yes, the DFH image had to be beat back then too.

I might be wrong, maybe the daisy was for McGovern. . .I just looked for my file box from back then, and I couldn’t find the box. I have another reason to be looking for it, so I guess I’ll look tomorrow.

My dad organized an anti-war effort for the SF Fiesta parade sometime back then. We painted figures from Peanuts for placards. The security blanket for Linus (LBJ) was labeled “Vietnam.”

Oklahoma kiddo @ 169

Exactly how would a Democratic president, assuming he or she wanted to, fire the DLC?

Probably by ignoring them for cabinet positions and other appointments and making all their “connectedness” irrelevant.

SnarKassandra @ 154

Eli @ 149

SnarKassandra @ 149

If he is at 28% then why are the dems giving him what he wants instead of being strong?

That’s what this post is about…

And it only took an hour!

Blogs are a group effort it takes time for all these talented people to talk, evaluate the information, argue..er discus like adults and then reach a consensus. Once we understand an issue though we are pretty quick with our informed opinions. Getting informed takes time.

SnarKassandra @ 150

jayt @ 144

Bush is full of crap — he’s at a 28% approval rating, for Pete’s sake.

as much as I’m loving the 28 per cent JAR, the same poll says HRC can beat any of the Repub contenders. So it’s hard for me to fully credit that particular poll. HRC isn’t going to beat anyone.

I think I’ll choose to believe the 28% part, because it makes me happy, and ignore the rest.

If he is at 28% then why are the dems giving him what he wants instead of being strong?

Cassie, you are showing the skills of a good list moderator: A good question is better than a good answer!

Someone posted up a ways that if someone has questions, they ought to do some research before asking. That’s true, but sometimes a good question, even if it sounds naive, draws people out, and encourages participation.

So please keep sharpening your skills at asking good questions. It is a skill that will serve you well.

But to try to answer your question, it isn’t “the dems giving him what he wants,” its the DLC Democrats. If you actually check around, the Democrats are NOT giving him what he wants, and Pelosi and Reid, not Panetta, are the ones who are spokesmen for the Democrats.

Bob in HI

oddmommy @ 67

TRex @ 48

Oh, fuck The Post.

Dude. Gimme a BREAK. This is a one-horse town when it comes to newspapers…..and I’m old enough that I NEED to start my day with some good old fashioned print on my fingers.

My theory is that when Reagan and his minions came to town, and filled thousands of patronage positions with their cronies (which got worse with the election of the Gingerich-led House and then Dubya) the Post decided to compete with the Moonington Times for subscribers. Plus it was easier to use intentional leaks (aka unattributed Press releases) than to actually do real investigative reporting. Greshams First Law of Mediocre Media Promulgation.

A long time ago my mom gave me a silver pin that is Adlai Stevenson’s shoe with a hole in it. She had me on Oct 29 so she could get to the polls to vote for him.

RevDeb @ 38

Hi Jane!

OT In PA. The vote is tomorrow but it looks like I’ll be moving. We made an offer on a house. We shall see. It’s in Sestack’s CD!

Now to plug into the PA Roots group and make some connections.

Outside AGITATOR!

Jonno @ 173

A long time ago my mom gave me a silver pin that is Adlai Stevenson’s shoe with a hole in it. She had me on Oct 29 so she could get to the polls to vote for him.

I am a Nov 1st baby and I went with my mom to vote when I was a few days old.

dakine01 @ 167

slightly OT but tomorrow’s NY TImes has headline With New Clout, Antiwar Groups push Dems

Wow! Hurray. I didn’t know this group existed!

Bob Schacht @ 174

SnarKassandra @ 150

jayt @ 144

Bush is full of crap — he’s at a 28% approval rating, for Pete’s sake.

as much as I’m loving the 28 per cent JAR, the same poll says HRC can beat any of the Repub contenders. So it’s hard for me to fully credit that particular poll. HRC isn’t going to beat anyone.

I think I’ll choose to believe the 28% part, because it makes me happy, and ignore the rest.

If he is at 28% then why are the dems giving him what he wants instead of being strong?

Cassie, you are showing the skills of a good list moderator: A good question is better than a good answer!

Someone posted up a ways that if someone has questions, they ought to do some research before asking. That’s true, but sometimes a good question, even if it sounds naive, draws people out, and encourages participation.

So please keep sharpening your skills at asking good questions. It is a skill that will serve you well.

Bob in HI

I’m the one who commented about doing research.

I hear (Democratic) Senators speaking on the floor about our “closely divided nation” and I wonder in what country they live…

That so-called division is maintained (and promoted) only in the artificial hothouse that is Washington, D.C., where the tides of American public opinion don’t reach, thanks to the moated walls constructed of corporate campaign ad cash barricading “our” representatives carefully away from us. That’s the same hothouse where the Legislative Branch disappears under the jackboots of a political party operating out of the Executive Branch. Our federal government (as opposed to our nation’s people) is “divided” by design but for decades now the two political parties have been doing their best to merge the Legislative and Executive Branches into one, every chance they get.

The 33% core of regularly-incited haters make a lot of noise, and the corporate press keeps the lid on the facts and the truth about our government to keep the fury in check, but it’s damn well past time for those behind the barricades in D.C. to look beyond their immediate, pampered environment and to start to do the business of the country as a whole.

OKiddo @ 161 – You’re damn right it’s not about party affiliation. Our two “parties” are an artificial construct stifling this country in so many ways, it’s unreal. jcsylvan @ 135 is pointing in that direction. We’re stuck with the Two-and-ONLY-Two-Party System until major reform can be enacted, but it sure doesn’t mean we have to believe in it, and I’d wager easily more than 50% of the voting-age population doesn’t (which is why so many of them don’t vote).

SnarKassandra says
May 5th, 2007 at 7:42 pm

I am a Nov 1st baby and I went with my mom to vote when I was a few days old.

Kassie: Wow! That would be a great TV spot for your first presidential campaign…

things come undone @ 165

boc @ 146

things come undone @ 85

Leon is warning US and the Dems that Corporate Money which buys advertising is probably thinking about supporting/paying for with advertising Dollars another big Main Stream Media proBush/AntiLiberal media campaign. Unless of course we start “comprimising” and get laws? a budget? maybe more military spending passed? What exactly are the Democrats holding up that his Corporate friends want passed? Or is what concerns him something he does not want the Democrats to pass a reform of Bankrupcy law, Payday loan restrictions? Who is buttering Leon’s toast now? I need a scorecard to keep up with all the fake Dems conflicts of interests!

What it seems is that many citizens in govt are “warning” us about any tendencies that are too contrary to conventional wisdom, aka Official Story. Comey, in another thread at FDL, comes to mind. Panetta was also on the ISG, and was on C-SPAN (i think) with some Republican, advocating for us to accept the half-a-loaf it represented.

What are these warnings all about? It seems like code for something. Comey’s “I really miss DOJ” comment is parsed to be taken as “I was pushed out”. Am I crazy or are these coded messages a little too creepy? There is fear out there, fear of retaliation, fear of saying their truth in the open.

I guess this is why politics is so interesting. But the warnings…

Seems to me that they’re issued when the public gets a little too interested in, and perhaps too close to uncovering, the operators of the levers of power. And what is the biggest shift in power? The Dems have power of oversight. To subpoena. To investigate. To necessarily be contrary to the status quo. In BushCo Land, that’s a capital offense.

Someone powerful is scared.

but of what? That is the question driving me nuts!

Boy, I wish I knew. NWO-ish. Solai at 164, the Corp power is solidified in that Ike thing, but Ike wanted to include Military Industrial Congress Complex. And the rotating doors have never stopped. The integration of the legal and corporate worlds is nearly complete, from what I can tell.

So if the Netroots/Grassroots (us) begin to demand accountability, and begin to see success through oversight, the RealPolitik kicks into gear big time. Power buys protection.

Ever since the shift from Afghanistan to Iraq, I’ve wanted to know “why”. Might be just the perfect storm when forces of religion, empire and corporatism find common cause, with a bone for each dog. Unsettling to say the least.

CD @ 179

SnarKassandra says
May 5th, 2007 at 7:42 pm

I am a Nov 1st baby and I went with my mom to vote when I was a few days old.

Kassie: Wow! That would be a great TV spot for your first presidential campaign…

I don’t think there’s a pic of me that day.

If things generally remain as they are, a Hillary Clinton candidacy might well be the *only* thing that would sufficiently motivate the R’s to get out and vote en masse in 2008.

dakine01 @ 167

slightly OT but tomorrow’s NY TImes has headline With New Clout, Antiwar Groups push Dems

I have heard Greg Palast say that if the people lead, the leaders will show up and get in front of the parade.

Or something similar.

I think we have got our lead going.

A good friend of mine, a civil engineer, passed away just about a year ago. Mark Dawson. Helluva a piledriver! He was a roommate with Panetta in college. They both came from Catholic school K through masters degree backgrounds. When Panetta was elevated in the Clinton administration, Mark told me something like “Leon’s too good a Catholic to be able to put up with people like the Clintons for very long.”

I replied with something like “What makes you think he’ll think the Clintons are really liberal?” That was back round late 1994. Panetta is an inveterate triangulator, just like both Clintons.

People have been talking about lawyers all fucking day here!

Gridlock means we can’t restore the Constitution back to the way our Founding Fathers envisioned. It means we will continue to see 50 million Americans without Health Care. It means we won’t get clean from our addiction to oil, or other priorities that need to be addressed.

Democrats need to be reminded that the voters elected them to represent the will of the people, not the DLC.

lolo,
Thank you for giving my way-EPU’d message to Snarkassandra, you are a sweetie. ;)

SnarKassandra says
May 5th, 2007 at 7:50 pm

I don’t think there’s a pic of me that day.

Aw, piece of cake. You think digital video effects are good now, just wait till you see what they’re cranking out by then… *G*

Ed*ard Teller @ 184

A good friend of mine, a civil engineer, passed away just about a year ago. Mark Dawson. Helluva a piledriver! He was a roommate with Panetta in college. They both came from Catholic school K through masters degree backgrounds. When Panetta was elevated in the Clinton administration, Mark told me something like “Leon’s too good a Catholic to be able to put up with people like the Clintons for very long.”

I replied with something like “What makes you think he’ll think the Clintons are really liberal?” That was back round late 1994. Panetta is an inveterate triangulator, just like both Clintons.

People have been talking about lawyers all fucking day here!

I looked this up in the dictionary, but what I found doesn’t help me understand what people are saying about Leon Panetta or the Clintons.

Main Entry: triangulation
Pronunciation: (”)trI-”a[ng]-gy&-’lA-sh&n
Function: noun
: the measurement of the elements necessary to determine the network of triangles into which any part of the earth’s surface is divided in surveying; broadly : any similar trigonometric operation for finding a position or location by means of bearings from two fixed points a known distance apart

jayt @ 185

If things generally remain as they are, a Hillary Clinton candidacy might well be the *only* thing that would sufficiently motivate the R’s to get out and vote en masse in 2008.

While simultaneously depressing the *Democratic* base.

I’m surprised Leon and the DLC are not quoting Reagan after all the reach back to the past when you don’t have any ideas of your own is not only a sign of desperation, the idealized past the “horrible” present can never live up to is always used whenever people want to stop progress and take a step backwards. It’s funny how its always a conservative/DLC cause that wants to stop progress. Like stopping Civil Rights, Women’s right to Vote, Choose, Minorites getting into college, stopping a war. Its never about Corporate CEO’s going back to getting paid as a percentage of what their workers made in the Seventies. Its never about taxing the rich the same percentage we did the last time we won a big war.

Snarkassie
that makes us both Scorpios.
we are just plain lucky for that

What I’m afraid of is what lengths the PTB will go to to maintain their control. I fear the provision in the Patriot Act giving the pres more power to declare martial law. I fear Blackwater. I fear that they will shut down the internet. No one has yet figured out what all those ‘detention centers’ are for that they plan to build, so that adds to my fear.
I fear that there will be another terrorist attack that will set this all in motion.
Their backs are against the wall. They are liked cornered animals. Their lies and crimes are all being revealed. They will not go down quietly. They will fight with everything they’ve got. That is what I am afraid of.

petedownunder @ 23

Panetta was the US Rep from the district just south of the bay area. He used to be a Republican (in the 60s)and is very close to the Clintons. I assume he thinks he’s helping HRC, but who knows. The D’s need to ignore him as they should ignore all the other consultants who seek to dilute the message of the voters in 11/06.

Amen.

AI*PAC wants Hillary to win the primary. Leon is their point man. As is the Washington Post.

Lolo got the zed:

http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..o-edition/

Kass: To me, triangulation refers to politicians who are obsessed with advisors and polls and focus groups, and use those to calculate what position on any given topic would get the most votes, rather than arriving at their positions by logic and principle.

In other words, being “calculating” and opportunistic rather than relying on personal integrity. Just my two cents.

Cassie,

from ETapedia definitions:

inveterate triangulator: one who continually, almost addictively reevaluates political relationships on the basis of dominating the middle ground and moving rapidly to where that ground is perceived to be.

SnarKassandra @ 191 asks:

I looked this up in the dictionary, but what I found doesn’t help me understand what people are saying about Leon Panetta or the Clintons.

Main Entry: tri�an�gu�la�tion
Pronunciation: (”)trI-”a[ng]-gy&-’lA-sh&n
Function: noun
: the measurement of the elements necessary to determine the network of triangles into which any part of the earth’s surface is divided in surveying; broadly : any similar trigonometric operation for finding a position or location by means of bearings from two fixed points a known distance apart

In the political sense, the triangulations aspect is supposedly trying to find a way that is not the traditional Liberal Democrat way nor is it the Right wing Republican Way. David Broder of the WaPoo also keeps trying to spout this “third way.” But what they are doing is re-inforcing all of the inside the Wahington Beltway biases that says that Democrats can not be elected because of everything that went on from the mid-60s on. Starting in 1968, the myth has been that anti-war protestors are just dirty hippies and the “average, middle American” voter is turned off by that. The Republicans have been counting on this myth to build themselves up for decades. We’re just trying to re-establish the original heart and soul of the Democratic party that has sold out to big business.

dakine01 @ 197

SnarKassandra @ 191 asks:

I looked this up in the dictionary, but what I found doesn’t help me understand what people are saying about Leon Panetta or the Clintons.

Main Entry: tri�an�gu�la�tion
Pronunciation: (”)trI-”a[ng]-gy&-’lA-sh&n
Function: noun
: the measurement of the elements necessary to determine the network of triangles into which any part of the earth’s surface is divided in surveying; broadly : any similar trigonometric operation for finding a position or location by means of bearings from two fixed points a known distance apart

In the political sense, the triangulations aspect is supposedly trying to find a way that is not the traditional Liberal Democrat way nor is it the Right wing Republican Way. David Broder of the WaPoo also keeps trying to spout this “third way.” But what they are doing is re-inforcing all of the inside the Wahington Beltway biases that says that Democrats can not be elected because of everything that went on from the mid-60s on. Starting in 1968, the myth has been that anti-war protestors are just dirty hippies and the “average, middle American” voter is turned off by that. The Republicans have been counting on this myth to build themselves up for decades. We’re just trying to re-establish the original heart and soul of the Democratic party that has sold out to big business.

But wasn’t the stuff from the 60’s the BEST stuff from the dems (besides New Deal)?

Ed*ard Teller @ 199

Cassie,

from ETapedia definitions:

inveterate triangulator: one who continually, almost addictively reevaluates political relationships on the basis of dominating the middle ground and moving rapidly to where that ground is perceived to be.

EPU’d now but boy, that sure describes more accurately and succintly than my attempt.

solai #194: “What I’m afraid of is what lengths the PTB will go to to maintain their control.”

Any length at all, I’m afraid. There is the sneaking suspicion that some really important piece of info is being withheld. Well, duh to me.

What’s in plain sight, yet not talked about?

Bush was sent a funding bill. He complains that it had timetables and rules that restricted his ability to send troops into the bloodbath.

Congress is merely expressing its responsibilities as enunciated in Article 2 of the Constitution.

Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States…

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water…

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States , reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

[Militias are generally viewed to be the National Gaurds]

The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

[And this for “He who would be emperor” George!]

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.

It’s quite clear that Congress has the right and responsibility to provide guidelines and regulations to the Armed Forces. So when Bush asserts that politicians should not interfere with the Generals in running the war he is asserting that the Constitutional powers of Congress should be emasculated. In fact, he himself is a POLITICIAN.

Of course, George has been so inept in this war, and appears to be losing interest in taking responsibility for it, that he is appointing a “War Czar”…an individual that has no Constitutional Status…and merely will take the herat for Bush failing to get things worked out at the Cabinet level between Condi and Gates (and before that Rummy). Why he needs someone else to be the “Decider” and “Commander” is odd if things are going so well in his war!

cinnamonape @ 201

Bush was sent a funding bill. He complains that it had timetables and rules that restricted his ability to send troops into the bloodbath.

Congress is merely expressing its responsibilities as enunciated in Article 2 of the Constitution.

Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States…

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water…

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States , reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

[Militias are generally viewed to be the National Gaurds]

The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

[And this for “He who would be emperor” George!]

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.

It’s quite clear that Congress has the right and responsibility to provide guidelines and regulations to the Armed Forces. So when Bush asserts that politicians should not interfere with the Generals in running the war he is asserting that the Constitutional powers of Congress should be emasculated. In fact, he himself is a POLITICIAN.

Of course, George has been so inept in this war, and appears to be losing interest in taking responsibility for it, that he is appointing a “War Czar”…an individual that has no Constitutional Status…and merely will take the herat for Bush failing to get things worked out at the Cabinet level between Condi and Gates (and before that Rummy). Why he needs someone else to be the “Decider” and “Commander” is odd if things are going so well in his war!

But I bet he doesn’t read that G-D piece of paper?

SnarKassandra @ 191

I looked this up in the dictionary, but what I found doesn’t help me understand what people are saying about Leon Panetta or the Clintons.

Main Entry: triangulation

Well now

Take one political stance. Now visualize another one, for our purposes diametrically opposed.

What’s in the space between?

A triangulation strategy presumes that between the two diametrically opposed points are a greater mass (of potentially receptive ratepayers/voters/gullible schmucks)who may be swayed toward a policy by playing to the center.

It’s self-defeating nonsense, of course, but you’re young enough to understand that.

;>)

SnarKassandra @ 201

But wasn’t the stuff from the 60’s the BEST stuff from the dems (besides New Deal)?

If that’s what the next generations are thinking, there’s hope for us yet!

Cassie – I’ll give it a shot. The “triangulation” generally attributed to the Clintons goes like this:
Say that there’s one group of people who are passionate in their belief about a particular issue (war in Iraq, e.g.). On the other side is an equally passionate group whose beliefs are just the opposite.

A skilled triangulator stakes out a middle position on that issue, which would hopefully have the effect of leaving both of the passionate groups partly mollified, and still partly angry, but ultimately fully satisfying no one.

The middle position staked out by the (in this case Clintons) becomes the third point of the triangle.

The triangulating politician lives to remain in office another day.

SnarKassandra @ 201 asks:

But wasn’t the stuff from the 60’s the BEST stuff from the dems (besides New Deal)?

Yes, but we often went about it in a not so great fashion, whether through the street protests, demonstrations or everything else. It was a different time, although not too dissimliar in many ways to today.

From the police riots in Chicago during the ‘68 Dem convention to the anti-war protests that shut down campuses, the killings at Kent and Jackson State, there was a true gulf between the older, WWII generation that had not yet grasped that the government could and would lie to us.

It’s quite clear that Congress has the right and responsibility to provide guidelines and regulations to the Armed Forces. So when Bush asserts that politicians should not interfere with the Generals in running the war he is asserting that the Constitutional powers of Congress should be emasculated. In fact, he himself is a POLITICIAN.

THANK YOU, cinnamonape @ 201. I couldn’t believe Bush made that assertion, and I’ve been waiting for the Members of Congress to jump on it, as you have here, and explain our Constitution and form of government to the occupant of the Presidency. No such luck, yet (they all seemed to take it as a reference to “micro-managing” the war, instead of grasping the broader and more menacing implications that you’ve pointed out here).

U.S. attorney candidate can’t practice law
By Mike Carter

Seattle Times staff reporter

Former Republican congressman Rick White, one of three candidates the Republicans have submitted to replace John McKay as U.S. attorney for Western Washington, cannot practice law in the state.
White’s license was suspended by the state Supreme Court in August 2003 for failure to pay his bar dues. He was reinstated to the bar in 2005 after paying a small fee, but currently holds an “inactive” status.

White said late Friday that he was working toward reactivating his status as an attorney in the state of Washington. He said he needs to complete about “20 to 30 hours” of Continuing Legal Education (CLE) before he can reclaim his license.

“I understand I’m in a bad position,” he said.

I just thought I’d drop this here.

jcsylvan @ 135

Look at the exit polls it was not a Dem. mandate it was a mandate to end the war. The veto was the end of chapt. 1 and panetta is giving people who really want to see this thing over a few tips–don’t make it about politics, don’t make it about bush, make it about ending the war. check your reps schedule and make sure you’re there at his or her town meeting to ask him or her (on camera), how many u.s. casualties would they be willing to accept before they change their vote–regardless of what the others do. post to youtube. link to the webpage. that’s how we end this debacle. who cares about bush, it’s not his war anymore. it’s our war and we’d better own up to it.

I’d also advise people to point out the recent report that shows that the longer troops stay in the war zone the greater (in fact exponential increase) in the chance of stress related mental illness, war crimes, violence when the soldier/marine returns home, suicide, and battlefield injury or death.

Bush has exceeded the Pentagon-stipulated preparedness guidelines just to get bodies in the filed for the surge. Tours are now 15 months for the Army, and home deployments are being cut. In addition divisions are being sent back, again and again.

There are tremendous social costs that this “surge” and the length of this war will have on this country. It is ultimately destroying the military. And contrary to folks on the Republican side of the aisle (or isle) it’s not the Appropriations Bill that stipulates enough rest and training for urban combat and proper equipment that is causing “morale issues”. It’s the long tours, the failure to accomplish anything that resembles a viable Iraqi government, and the fact that the longer and MORE AGGRESSIVE, we are the more we create an opposition to what appears to be an occupation.

It’s quite clear that we are no longer merely fighting a few Baathist “hangers on” or a handful of foreign al-Qaida fighters. We are now taking sides in a civil war, a sectarian conflict that we can’t really succeed in suppressing.

Ed*ard Teller @ 199

Cassie,

from ETapedia definitions:

inveterate triangulator: one who continually, almost addictively reevaluates political relationships on the basis of dominating the middle ground and moving rapidly to where that ground is perceived to be.

Thanks for this.

Cassie, this is very important for understanding the national politics of the late 1990s. Clinton was a pragmatist, and Triangulation is how he did his pragmatism. The Republicans hated him for that. They interpreted is pragmatism as a lack of principles, and that is why the whole Monica scandal (sorry, Cassie– different Monica (Lewinsky); not Monica Goodling) confirmed their interpretation that Clintonian pragmatism was immoral. However, looked at another way, Clinton had a gift for reflecting the will of the people, in stark contrast to the Republicans, who don’t care what the public thinks. They would say it is because they are standing on their “principles.” Only now we are finding out what their real principles are.

Bob in HI
PS tonight we are honoring the life of Don Ho. If you want to understand something about Hawaii, tune into Channel 9 (KGMB) on the Internet for the next few hours.

Bush has once again gotten a free pass. How many mercenaries (Blackwater, etc.) have been killed since the beginning of the war, and how many Halliburton employees? Could the number be as high as American soldiers and the total be cose to 7,000? There are 24,314 US wounded and 3,362 US military deaths.

How do we find out these numbers?

Panetta’s right!

The only way this country can move forward after 2008 is if more Democrats are elected. Crashing the party into the rocks in 2007 with repeated attempts to stop a war that it can’t stop does the party no good.

GET BACK TO THE AGENDA!

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/

ccmask @ 214

Bush has once again gotten a free pass. How many mercenaries (Blackwater, etc.) have been killed since the beginning of the war, and how many Halliburton employees? Could the number be as high as American soldiers and the total be cose to 7,000? There are 24,314 US wounded and 3,362 US military deaths.

How do we find out these numbers?

I agree we need a post on this topic Mercs and American workers killed in Iraq congress should hold a hearing because by just focusing on the troops we are not getting the whole count or cost of the war.

pow wow @ 210

It’s quite clear that Congress has the right and responsibility to provide guidelines and regulations to the Armed Forces. So when Bush asserts that politicians should not interfere with the Generals in running the war he is asserting that the Constitutional powers of Congress should be emasculated. In fact, he himself is a POLITICIAN.

THANK YOU, cinnamonape @ 201. I couldn’t believe Bush made that assertion, and I’ve been waiting for the Members of Congress to jump on it, as you have here, and explain our Constitution and form of government to the occupant of the Presidency. No such luck, yet (they all seemed to take it as a reference to “micro-managing” the war, instead of grasping the broader and more menacing implications that you’ve pointed out here).

That “Piece of Paper” remains the main reason I can call myself an American with some degree of respect. And that’s despite all the stuff about slavery, and restricting the right to vote to white males. That’s because it allows for amendment and interpretation to the understanding of the times. It’s evolutionary yet rich with traditional knowledge of human nature at the same time.

Yet, with perhaps the period of the Civil War, I don’t think that has been a greater threat to its integrity from internal forces.

ccmask @ 214

Bush has once again gotten a free pass. How many mercenaries (Blackwater, etc.) have been killed since the beginning of the war, and how many Halliburton employees? Could the number be as high as American soldiers and the total be cose to 7,000? There are 24,314 US wounded and 3,362 US military deaths.

How do we find out these numbers?

A lot of these will be foreign mercenaries, just because American deaths would be more likely to be exposed in the media. Still, I’ve heard that many Blackwater and other “Security Consultants” have been lured in at treble the salaries of US armed forces. They are paid as part of the contracts for reconstruction, and the contractors have admitted that “security costs” are what have doubled or tripled the original bids.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 10

This Dem is not over-reaching. Hillary is under-reaching. And over-reaching at the same time. Sound familiar? Leon. I think it’s called triangulation, or some variation thereof.

So yer sayin once a Clintonian Shill, always? I’d buy into that. Triangle, pho sho. Divide the Dem’s and Shillary winds the dems.

Problem we all know, Shillary is unelectable in the natoinal. She sho won’t get MY vote, one way or the other. Not even against a REthug.

Independent, I like that party. We should ALL switch from Dem, to Ind., just to scare the SHAT outta them. Now THAT’S some fuckery, I’ll manner!

Oklahoma kiddo @ 28

I do not like Carville, Panetta, Rubin, Emanuel, and a bunch more.

S’heah, I’ll oink that one, two. Shills for the A*P*C Shilary’s of the DLC.

Scum.

They should all be lined up and Harumped In Public, hands and feet in stocks of the non Wall Type.

RevDeb @ 46

Josh Marshall picks up on the McKay/Wales connection. Calls Wale’s murder an assassination. Links to WaPo.

The plot gets thicker by the day, doesn’t it?

It occurs to me, with all the talk about A*P*C $, MIC $, and all the general corporatist and fundie religious buckaroonie’s, we’ve lost track of The Moonie Money.

And I’d bet MY phat white un tanned honky butt that THEM greenbacks are behind Shilary, and a lot of the BROWBEATING of normal people.

“Than Man Moon?”
“He’s A BAD Mothuh!”
“DOWN MOON!”

Oklahoma kiddo @ 52

The reason the DLC does not like progressives and liberals is because they are afraid and know we will come after them should we have the chance and expose this group for what they are.

No, the reason the DLC is and does what it does, its that it’s as guilty as the Rethugs, their names are IN the DC Madame Phone Logs, and they’ve supplied drugs, hookers, underage boys and girls and much, much more crap and poison to both Repub and Dem PTB and their aides.

BOTH PARTY’S are guilty as SIN for this kind of shit!!!! It’s why the Dem’s are scared to move too fast, cus the Pub’s will out them as being as Romanly Ugly as the Pub’s themselves are.

Toss out the DLC, get RID of it. Tell the Dem’s, WE THE PHREAKIN PEOPLE, will only support politicians who DON’T take PAC Money from . . . (make a list).

Shut it all down, in one fell phrellin swoop! Draw the line! Come ON people, someone have the right mix of testosterone and estrogen to SHUT IT DOWN! But no, no balls, no vagina’s, shouting it out loud, what’s needed.

We need to cut them off!!!!
Of course, then, we need to feed the one’s who WILL go without PAC’S, and THAT’S gonna take billions of dollars.

WTF, so we take it from Soros . . . :grin:

We really don’t have to worry about LIEberman taking anything and going anywhere. He is practically irrelevant now and come 2009 he can sit in the corner all by himself and amuse himself because no one else will want to have anything to do with him.

Fortunately Harry Reid knew how to write the organizing resolutions for this Senate to render JoeLIE effectively neutered.

He will have BOTH hands in his lap, too. They will be busy hands. As they ALWAYS have been.

solai @ 165

Someone powerful is scared.

I’m a little scared too. Corps have waaay too much to lose if the grassroots/netroots become powerful.

Just consider, the netroots are predicting that Monica Goodling ends up with TWO bullets in the back of the head in a tragic suicide that NO ONE knows the reason for.

I truly believe, there is a ‘disappearing’ force already in action. N that’s why Dem’s are fearful. Since ‘98 there have been any NUMBER of ‘unexplained’ deaths, of key people involved in key things. Even BEYOND the percentage one would allow for ‘conspiracy’ theorists.

Fear. A Great Motivator.

dakine01 @ 172

Oklahoma kiddo @ 169

Exactly how would a Democratic president, assuming he or she wanted to, fire the DLC?

Probably by ignoring them for cabinet positions and other appointments and making all their “connectedness” irrelevant.

DON’T TAKE THEIR PHREAKIN MONEY!

Loo Hoo @ 179

dakine01 @ 167

slightly OT but tomorrow’s NY TImes has headline With New Clout, Antiwar Groups push Dems

Wow! Hurray. I didn’t know this group existed!

Pure Fuckery!!! Why wasn’t this told to the people that MoveOn.org emailed to? Including me? Why wasn’t this process shared to the little people? Why is this the first I’ve heard of it?

I’m very disappointed this information was NOT widespread in a PR email to all MoveOn.org members.

That means they concealed their intentions. Not good. Really not good.

They are constrained for some reason, follow the money, I bet.

Are there NO honest men and women left to lead, and be followed?

pow wow @ 181

I hear (Democratic) Senators speaking on the floor about our “closely divided nation” and I wonder in what country they live…

That so-called division is maintained (and promoted) only in the artificial hothouse that is Washington, D.C., where the tides of American public opinion don’t reach, thanks to the moated walls constructed of corporate campaign ad cash barricading “our” representatives carefully away from us. That’s the same hothouse where the Legislative Branch disappears under the jackboots of a political party operating out of the Executive Branch. Our federal government (as opposed to our nation’s people) is “divided” by design but for decades now the two political parties have been doing their best to merge the Legislative and Executive Branches into one, every chance they get.

The 33% core of regularly-incited haters make a lot of noise, and the corporate press keeps the lid on the facts and the truth about our government to keep the fury in check, but it’s damn well past time for those behind the barricades in D.C. to look beyond their immediate, pampered environment and to start to do the business of the country as a whole.

OKiddo @ 161 – You’re damn right it’s not about party affiliation. Our two “parties” are an artificial construct stifling this country in so many ways, it’s unreal. jcsylvan @ 135 is pointing in that direction. We’re stuck with the Two-and-ONLY-Two-Party System until major reform can be enacted, but it sure doesn’t mean we have to believe in it, and I’d wager easily more than 50% of the voting-age population doesn’t (which is why so many of them don’t vote).

Good rant. Right on to all.

boc @ 203

solai #194: “What I’m afraid of is what lengths the PTB will go to to maintain their control.”

Any length at all, I’m afraid. There is the sneaking suspicion that some really important piece of info is being withheld. Well, duh to me.

What’s in plain sight, yet not talked about?

Martial law, suspension of elections, and continuation of the PTB.

Should be our biggest fear. Above all others. And when I see the Dem’s waffle, it worries me.

. . . Yes, but we often went about it in a not so great fashion, . . . . . there was a true gulf between the older, WWII generation that had not yet grasped that the government could and would lie to us.

So true, the divide tween Vets and those of us in the streets, in the yester years. Those Vets of yester year and NOW, now know, they ARE lied to, about their sacrifices. Hell hath no fury like a human spurned.

cinnamonape @ 218

. . . . A lot of these will be foreign mercenaries, just because American deaths would be more likely to be exposed in the media. Still, I’ve heard that many Blackwater and other “Security Consultants” have been lured in at treble the salaries of US armed forces. They are paid as part of the contracts for reconstruction, and the contractors have admitted that “security costs” are what have doubled or tripled the original bids.

Of COURSE that’s true. Merc’s get a TON of money just to drive trucks. I recruited truck drivers for a while, as a job. Some of those who applied were VETS of Iraq. They got paid OBSCENELY!

But they were quaking in their boots during interviews, when asked about the situations they drove in. Why they quit.

The one’s I recruited, interviewed, were wounded, greatly.

But this ain’t about the dead, dying, and crippled. This is about our country, and what’s happened to it.

It’s been hijacked, and will continue to be, unless we get off our asses about Hilary and DLC, and take a mighty united stand against all the ‘bad’ things.

Of which, there are many.

Our government has already been usurped. Who will get it back, and how?

Dang, where’d everyone go?

Mexican Food?

Happy Puebla Memory Day.
I supported MY share. :grin:

klyde @ 138

Makes you wonder how anyone could vote for a clinton any clinton

I didn’t vote for him, but I understand. It’s perhaps summed up best by, “I feel your pain.”

Yeah yeah, I know it’s silly, but Bill is extremely bright, very eloquent, charming, charismatic at times and governed no worse than Nixon. For all the silly talk about him he governed pretty much the way he said he would, as a Conservative Democrat. He respected gay rights in the military, but took away welfare for some people. He may have bungled health care reform, but he did good on the budget. He was acceptable for the times.

That doesn’t mean we should stay the course. We should always seek to improve our lives and if that means getting someone a bit more Progressive, then that’s what we do.

larue, most are over at the late late night thread.

Leon Panetta was an advisor to the Lieberman campaign last fall. He was here in CT and gave numerous interviews during which he was rude and obnoxious to anyone who didn’t agree that Joe Lieberman walks on water.

And, don’t forget, Bill Clinton campaigned for Lieberman during the primary. Hilary Clinton gave Ned Lamont $5,000 after he won the primary but, after that, neither of the Clintons lifted a finger in support of the DEMOCRATIC nominee.

It seems clear to me that Panetta, Lieberman and the Clintons are “birds of a feather.”

A BIGGER TENT AND A BROADER AGENDA!

PANETTA’S RIGHT!

The only way this country can move forward after 2008 is if more Democrats are elected. Crashing the party into the rocks in 2007 with repeated attempts to stop a war that it can’t stop does the party no good.

The Democrats need to be smarter on how they spend their little political capital.

Panetta is beginning to challenge Lanny Davis as the Dem’s champion Concern Troll.

Don’t these people read polls? 71% are disatisfied with the direction the country is heading. A firm majority support a timeline for withdrawal from Iraq.

As T-Rex points out, Bush’s approval rating (28%) is a point below where O.J. Simpson was in ‘95. And but 4 points from where Nixon was at his nadir.

Get a clue, Leon!

Oops! I made a mistake. It was Lanny Davis who was working for Lieberman, not Panetta. Sorry, everyone!!!

Greg Palast is saying Corporate Hill sat on the board of Wal Mart for 6 years. So between Wal Mart and Bill’s NAFTA, manufacturing is wiped out. Why would anyone even think for a minute anybody from the Clinton era can be trusted.