I mentioned earlier my objection to the way in which Brian Williams phrased his abortion question to the Democratic candidates during the first debate (whereas the GOP candidates got lightly scented, gift-wrapped soft balls). Bob Somerby looks even deeper into Williams' hackery:
[H]ow about this astounding question to Edwards, concerning that recent Supreme Court decision:
WILLIAMS: Our most recent NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll indicated a majority of Americans approved of last week's Supreme Court decision to make so-called partial birth or late-term abortions illegal.
Most of the people on this stage put out statements and criticized the ruling. A lot of American families find this just a hideous topic for a discussion.Is this a case, do you think, of the Supreme Court and the public with opinions in one place, and yet a lot of elected officials [i.e., Democrats] in another?
Good God! Unfortunately, that question has so many glaring problems it’s hard to get them all straightened out.First, of course, Williams’ use of the term “partial-birth abortion” was a political choice. That’s the language of conservative pols, not of medical people. Beyond that, Williams’ conflation of “partial-birth” and “late-term” abortion was one of the many conceptual blunders the handsome hunk would author this evening. So-called “partial-birth abortion” is only one form of “late-term abortion;” the terms are not interchangeable. Yes, it’s a fairly minor point. But in the course of the debate, Williams would make many small blunders like this, as we will point out below.
But the most remarkable part of this question to Edwards was the section where Williams informed the world that “a lot of American families find this just a hideous topic for a discussion.” With this statement, Williams put his thumb firmly on the scale, producing an absurdly “loaded” question. Almost surely, his statement was technically accurate; the vagueness of the phrase “a lot” is very useful in spinning such matters. But once again, Williams had his thumb firmly on the scale as he offered this highly-charged aside. In this question, the word “hideous” played the same sort of role that “treasonous” had played earlier on. It served to put an obvious political slant on an otherwise valid question.
“American families” found this thing “hideous!” Edwards had criticized the Court’s decision—and here was Williams, plainly saying that this put him, and his fellow Democrats, severely at odds with these families. After all, “a majority of Americans” approved the Court’s decision, Williams said at the start of his question. But uh-oh! There too, he was tilting his presentation. In fact, he was making a claim about that new NBC poll that is just untrue.
In fact, it isn’t clear from that NBC poll that “a majority of Americans” agree with the Court’s new ruling. In its poll, NBC asked about the ruling in two different ways. And as NBC’s results clearly show, when pollsters mentioned the lack of “an exception for the health of the mother,” the public favored the Court’s ruling by a very slender plurality; 47 percent favored the ruling, 43 percent opposed it. (For poll results, click here.) Indeed, only 50 percent favor the ruling when results from NBC’s two questions are combined. But so what? Williams built an aggressive framework around his question, putting Edwards on the defensive. In his next question, he repeated his framework, asking for Obama’s “reaction to most of the public agreeing with the court’s holding.”
“American families” think this whole thing is “hideous!” Aside from that, Mr. Edwards, how do you like your opposition to this new, highly popular ruling?
What do you expect from a guy who thinks Rush Limbaugh hasn't had his due. I might actually say that myself, though I doubt we mean the same thing.
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As Eric Boehlert pointed out at Media Matters, Brian Williams makes $14 million a year, lives in a mansion in a ritzy neighborhood, and drives a sports car. No way he pays $10 for a haircut!
Zed?
———
Aargh! ;)
OT zed,
… and she stayed at a Holiday Inn last night
Phoenix Woman @ 1
I didn’t see until your post went up that you had the same Daily Howler link. Lots of Somerby love today.
Good evening everyone.
The media’s unswerving dedication to fairness and objectivity is demonstrated by the fact that both the Democratic and Republican debates had right-wing shills for their moderators.
KO - the repub debate = political seance (sp?)
EPUd:
The Alaska legislature is considering suspending activities until the current set of raids in Juneau is over. Wasilla Representative Vic Kohring, who so far today has evaded FBI teams at his Juneau and Wasilla offices, was last seen driving toward Mt. McKinley in a white Bronco. No, not THAT white bronco.
links coming soon.
Phoenix Woman @ 1
I pay $10 for a haircut and I’m BALD! The ONE haircut I got in Manhattan cost me $35 and was 25% off (supposed to be 10% but I mentioned the place outside Albany where I could get half price, not that I was driving to Albany just for a haircut…)
S.O.S. from MA @ 2
Just an FYI - several firepups do not have photos w/their entries. I found that I had to upload my doggy twice for it to “take”. Could that have happened to yours? Just sayin’. Not that I’m a psycho-stalker that needs people’s photos or anything…
Phoenix Woman @ 1
That putz makes $14 million a year? And ratings for the newscasts are going into the toilet? NBC isn’t getting their money’s worth, that is for sure.
BTW Jane, I think an appropriate name for the “gentleman” is The Odious Brian Williams.
OT - KO is covering the 600 empty seat prayer meeting that was hosted by Guckert/Gannon with Milbank.
I think you’re right, there was a big difference between the chummy, congenial questions in the Republican debate and the silly theatrics of the Democratic debate. I actually don’t mind softball questions this early in the game, let’s give the candidates a chance to speak for themselves, but if that’s good enough for the Republicans, it’s good enough for the Democrats too.
The one thing that stood out for me besides the congenial let’s bomb everybody next fourth of july atmosphere was how they kept the questions at quite a snappy pace. No time to stick one’s foot in one’s mouth although it was attempted.
I didn’t watch either of the debates (it’s waaay too early) and I buzz cut my hair.
Answers to questions nobody asked.
Okay, so when the dems are practicing for the debates, they need to learn to respond first by stating the bias of the question. Then answer the question using their own terms.
Loo Hoo @ 16
They need some prep from Dr. Dean.
What drives me nuts about Williams (and his ilk) is that he’s a well-educated, worldly, experienced professional and it’s his job to seek truth and tell it, yet he’s either a fan of or outright endorses Rush Limbaugh. There is simply no excuse for this. What reason, aside from tremendous greed and an overwhelming sense of superiority would bring a man with such obvious talent to such a despicable place? I don’t get it.
What time do we find out who was payin’ for the whooooaaahhh’s?
Jay @ 18
You need more?
Eli @ 6
Dave Broder got raked over the coals today.
Somewhat. I would have liked to add to that discussion (i.e. what about the Americans who voted for Gore in 2000 in larger numbers than those who voted for shrub, and were rewarded by a radical right wing regime?), but I was at work. And my laptop at work spies on me.
Loo Hoo @ 16
Yeah, they really need to challenge the questions a little more. I notice Mitt gushed about how he loved America when asked what he hated most, and another guy (forget which red tie it was) said I don’t want to answer that question, I want to answer this one on Iran (to that effect)so he could agree that he wanted to bomb the crap out of them too.
Jay @ 18
Given that IIRC, Williams was one of Imus’s enablers, it is no surprise to see that he admires LimpBalls.
Eli @ 17
Bingo. I was just thinking about exactly that because of something outrageous Chris Matthews said last night that really got me steamed. (b/w)
Phoenix Woman @ 1
I think this is exactly why the MSM sucks up to the right. Socioeconomically, they’re the same. People who make millions of dollars a year have different problems than the majority of americans. They don’t have to worry about medical care, child care, how to pay for college, etc.
As a broad generalization, Reps address the interests of the MSM (at least the MSM people who determine which stories to tell and how to tell them).
Eli @ 19,
I guess not, it’s just incredibly disappointing.
Helen @ 7
And; ‘the Ten whitest men you’ll ever meet!’ LOL!!! Evening, Fire Pups!!! ;)
dakine01 @ 22
Speaking of Limpballs … I just signed up over at that wingnut equivalent to YouTube .. I am gonna upload all sorts of stuff embarassing to the wingnuts … and my handle … DickCheneyownsTimRussert …. lol
Alaska Legislator Vic Kohring (R-Wasilla) quietly turned himself in to the Feds in Juneau at noon today. For some reason, the Feds kept his surrender quiet for over four hours. Two former legislators were arrested this morning. Many more arrests are expected, including that of Veco Alaska CEO Bill Allen, the most powerful GOP behind-the-scenes player in the state, and of the former president of the Alaska Senate, Ben Stevens, son of US Sen. Ted Stevens.
Interestingly, the Feds have had all the information contained in the idictments since last summer, have had a GJ convened in the matter since last spring, but the indictments are just coming down now.
Jane, loving your work today
his post is exactly what we need to start getting the democrats to do;
re frame the debate to the correct terms, NOT the republican terms
when they say;
“partial birth abortion” we say;
“are you nuts?…it’s NOT “partial birth abortion” it’s the “life saving technique used only when neccessary”..what, are you some kind of marionette that just repeats the lies puppeteers put into your mouth?”
hehe…not so dramatic but you get the idea, we have to ATTACK them where they CLAIM the high ground, we have to demonstrate the principle they make believe they stand on becomes the exact opposite
for instance, when they say “republicans want to fight terrorism” we say;
“then why the HELL are you supporting the man that ABANDONED the fight against terrorism, why the HELL are you supporting the man that CREATED terrorists with his DEPRAVED decisions AND HE WAS TOLD HE’D BE CREATING TERRORS-TS?”
we have to attack them at their very base principles and BURDEN their claims with the facts but presented in an ATTACK against what they claim they stand for
bing..embarras their claims so they don’t use the lie again
jane thank you for your perserverance.
dakine and ok kiddo thank you for your comments in the previous thread on this subject. you guys have a place in my heart with your posts on this subject–deep love sent your way.
i am directly involved in this subject
my father approached me about an abortion after being raped–which he knew nothing about-he only knew i was pregnant-he took me for a late term abortion. i was 17…….i knew nothing, i didn’t know what the hell happened to me…….i was taught not to talk….i was numb…i was raised in an atmosphere that it all looked pretty…….and you kept your mouth shut…….i had no idea what was going on…….i was 17……..i asked the nurse what sex the fetus was, and she acted like i was crazy……it was the circumstance, and the times.
you can’t tell me that moneyed republicans haven’t taken their daughters for the same abortion i had………my dad held my hand, took care of me at the cleveland clinic which offered it……..any money could buy it, i thought at the time, what happens to people who can’t afford it? my life changed then…….not because of regret, but because of the dichotemy(sp?) of what is available………..
i later became pregnant and gave him up for private adoption, i was never supposed to be a parent, i felt, i make a much better aunt……..and have no regrets either way…….i often thought, what is the matter with me that i have no regrets? my best friend said when you make the right choice, you have no regrets, that must be it.
so, i’ve seen both sides, and they ought to both be available, it was my choice, either way.
thanks to all of you who fight for the right of choice, i made the choice both ways, and it was my right to do so………..
Why did Williams ask such a hideous question, especially under the roof of his Alma Papa?
CTuttle @ 26
I don’t want them to be white men. I want to find a way to classify them as something entirely different that I can justify being prejudiced against.
Probably OT: If you live in West Coast Florida and you’re free tomorrow afternoon, we plan to “greet” Karl Rove in a vocal, robust fashion. He’ll be at the Best Western in Punta Gorda around 4 PM.
Please tell FL friends. We’d like Karl to know how we feel about him and his works!
Ed*ard Teller @ 28
Sounds like Teddy the Hulkster may have been busy!!!
EvilDrPuma @ 32
Umm… Republicans?
Ed*ard Teller @ 28
what did these people do? Alaska news is a bit scarce here in Dixie….
Eli @ 35
Now we’re cookin’!
Ed*ard Teller @ 28
The GOP: one ginormous criminal conspiracy. The DoJ has been really lacksadaiscal about those corrupt California Redubyacans, as well.
I guess we all know why.
If the media couldn’t speak in talking points, they would be mute.
I think that if a question had been asked: Do you think that legally permitted abortions for medical reasons should be left to a woman and her doctor? the result might have been different.
Williams is as clueless as most people are in the media about medical issues. He fails to understand that delivery of a terminated fetus is still legal as is the regular dilation and extraction and neither is for the faint hearted. Nothing surprising there, most surgeries are not for the squeamish.
Nor does Williams understand that both of the currently sanctioned alternatives are probably more dangerous than the now prohibited Intact Dilation and Extraction.
In other words, Williams is a dope. He simplifies and distorts the issue to the point of caricature. It’s what most journalists do nowadays.
EvilDrPuma @ 32
Not enough attention is paid to the plight of the rich white man!
DING DING DING!
This is especially true for the ones in broadcast/cable media.
((((((dmac))))))
EvilDrPuma @ 32
I thought it was already hashed out, Alien Excrement, or something along those lines….!!!
Zee @ 40
If it were, “socialism” wouldn’t be a dirty word in this country.
Governor Palin’s press release.
tip of the iceberg…
my 30-
you wouldn’t believe how hard it was to finally spit that out…..
you couldn’t speak out for years…….
demonized.
bumper stickers, billboards……..
time for people to say what all happened during those years and thank those that made abortion legal and safe.
i had a friend annie, older than me, now deceased, who had a back alley abortion and was sterile because of it……sick for months from it……..i never forgot her telling me about it……..for her, and for me, i scream, stand strong for healthy termination of pregnancies where necessary.
Phoenix Woman @ 41
while they might not have to worry about health care and education for now but if the fascists have their way it won’t be true for their children
the fascists want a robber baron economics, they want the haves, the have nots and that’s it…no have mores, just haves and have nots
they DESPISE public education, they DESPISE 40 hour work Weeks, they DESPISE retirement, they DESPISE public roads, public water, public ANYTHING
and if the “neuvoux rich” don’t figure that out soon their children will become members of the have nots
they WANT to be able to charge usery rates for money, they NEED to be able to collect debt from heirs even if no assets exist, they HATE debt relief
they LOVE taxes on everyone but themselves, they HATE the middle class
EvilDrPuma @ 44
One Stat: Top 1% : 50% of Wealth!!! Ding, Ding!!!
I just found out that I’m not getting PBS tonite. I called my cable company because Moyer’s at 9:00 tonite wasn’t in the guide…they told me the provider didn’t order it. In order for me to get PBS, they have to send in a waiver. They told me to call them back in 45 days. Is this normal for anyone else?
Doverbitch at 27-
Wow. I didn’t stick around to hear tweets.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 27
provide links when you can pleeze
Jacqrat @ 10
Thx for the Q, but imho we shouldn’t discuss FDL map stuff here in the “regular FDL.” That’s why there’s a separate discussion area — you can get to it by clicking here. I’ll repeat your question there, and answer it :)
EvilDrPuma @ 44
One Stat; Top 1% : 50% of net Wealth!!! Enuf said!!!
In order to get a fair hearing from Brian Williams, the Dem candidates would each have to mail their positions (in the form of a multimedia manifesto) to the NBC studio, then go on a murderous rampage.
dmac, totally your choice and it was the right one for you. Your dad loves you big time.
dmac @ 46
{{{{{{{{{{dmac}}}}}}}}}}
Your story is one of the reasons I believe as I do. And unfortunately, too many other old white guys feel exactly the opposite which is why we’re getting back into this mess.
Abortions have always gone on. I grew up in a small town in KY and know that some of the doctors were performing them. Money usually had a bearing. I’ve had family members who gave a child up and had the abortion both although at different times of life. It was one of the items that has to be in the category (to me) of a “nunya” as it is one of the most intensely personal decisions that anyone can make.
I’m glad/proud that I can help provide some small measure of moral support to you.
dmac @ 46
Sweetie - see me at 42. And what else do you need from us? I agree with you. While I have not been through what you have been -I am a much better Aunt than I ever could have been a mother. Thank the Goddess that I realized that early on. Who said it first? “Abortion on demand, without excuse and without apology”
Pat9 @ 33
Punta Gorda? For what?
OK, I got this crazy perfect world idea for ‘debates’.
Tape two at the same time Dems/Repubs. Then run them back to back, no editing.
The questions have to come from a variety of sources, determined by some random lottery process, and the same damn question, phrased the exact same way, has to be asked at both debates concurrently. The candidates could answer questions by another random draw. Details could be fiddled with.
Maybe then we could get some data similar enough to compare with some confidence.
Oh, and all video must be released under a Creative Commons license within three hours.
OK, Ok, I know no candidate, let alone a media outlet, would ever agree to some scheme like this, but it’s been a few lovely days of May, and there’s so much going on with a Democratic Congress, I’m just a little giddy.
CTuttle @ 48
It appears that my use of the “s” word got that comment into moderation. See what I mean? At least I can still say “fuck.”
ccmask @ 49
What new fuckery is that? Where do you live ccmask? Makes me feel guilty - here on the Monterey coast we get SF & San Jose public channels.
Ed*ard Teller @ 45
Keep us posted!
newspaperbrat @ 61
Florida. Where else?
((((((dmac)))))))
Words fail me.
Loo Hoo @ 49
I went out for a while, but left the tape recording. Then, when I played it back to write up some observations late last night, I heard him say that.
He’s actually done it before. A few days after that interview with Dean, he interviewed Jimmy Carter and told him that Dean said the Democrats were “no longer the pro-choice party” because Dean wouldn’t let him frame the conversation.
But after complaining that Dean wouldn’t accept the label, he then referred to his conversations with Ken Mehlman, where he complained that we would be “better off if we didn’t have the pro-life crazies and the pro-choice crazies.”
Direct TV
oddmommy @ 36
During Republican ex-governor Frank Murkowski’s 2005-2006 push to force the Republican state legislature to accept his big oil-crafted natural gas pipeline legislation, the biggies called upon their major Alaska-based power broker, Veco, to do the dirty work. Their CEO, Bill Allen has been notorious for years in his bragging of “owning” the legislature. He was finally taped, along with some of his minions, bribing a number of GOP legislators, telling one of them - after accepting the bribe - “I own your ass.”
Last year, as the indictments were about to start coming down right before the election, the HQ for the investigation was moved from the Alaska US Atty office to DC, where it was put under the control of Alice Fisher - before her promotion to head the DOJ criminal division (that term has even MORE recently been redefined, eh?). From August 2006 until now, the investigation and grand jury activity appeared to be languishing, but?
EvilDrPuma @ 60
Say it loud, say it proud, doc.
If I pay $79.00 a month, why do I have to talk to a girl from another country about PBS and then wait 45 days for them to plug me in.
OT
The national average price for regular gasoline today is $3.012.
The highest price last year (you know when we were all freaking out) was $3.036 around August 10, 2006.
The highest price ever was $3.057 on September 5, 2005.
We’re already in the highest price range and the summer driving season hasn’t even begun officially.
I wonder why Brian Williams couldn’t ask about this and what the Republicans would tell the oil companies they are in bed with.
perris @ 51
http://www.qubetv.tv/videos/detail/188
http://www.qubetv.tv/videos/detail/189
More to come.
EvilDrPuma @ 60
Marxist terms hit the NSA’s Moderator and viola! Lost in transmission, err, translation!!! Where’s Big Brother when you need him?!!!
ccmask @ 49
The revolution will not be televised.
When George looked into Putin’s soul, he got some good tips on media management.
Ruby Tuesday @ 59
I like it!
Hugh @ 70
Its around $3.50 here in Orange County
ccmask @ 66
The satellite deals have been fighting which “local” channels they can or will carry and how much they’ll pay. IIRC, for a time, they would use the broadcast channels for the networks from Atlanta and that’s what the folks say in Wichita would get. Sounds like it’s still a bit screwed up.
You might see if you can disconnect your TV from the Direct connection and hook up an old antenna and pull in the local PBS that way.
Zee @ 75
mr. brat reports $3.60 in Monterey an hour ago.
Allan & Newspaperbrat: I swear PBS Moyers was just added to my guide. Isn’t that something? I am on it now. Wow. How about them oversea workers?
I had no idea that Williams BFF was Rush… very interesting. I knew Williams was very biased in his reporting, but this is new territory to me.
That loaded question to Edwards pissed me off too, along with his other accusatory, hideous questions.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 27 — I want to see a link too!
ccmask @ 78
woo hoo! and don’t forget to give yourself credit as well.
I was pissed though…I had her on the phone for 15 minutes asking her to explain it to me.
S.O.S. from MA @ 52
… there’s a separate discussion area — you can get to it by clicking here. I’ll repeat your question there, and answer it :)
Just done :)
ccmask @ 69
My girlfriends and I, in high school, had a saying when something like this happened:
Man, this place is fucked.
Hey boys and girls - are we live-blogging the 20/20 DC Madam story? ROFL
The average for California today is $3.455.
http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/sbsavg.asp
I’ve seen/heard Williams speak unscripted on a handful of occasions and he’s certainly not stupid. It takes a certain level of talent to create and maintain a parallel universe in the face of an unending stream of facts that put the lie to it. Limbaugh wrote that book.
Ed*ard Teller @ 28
Wow. Just — wow.
LooHoo: I went to an all girl high school and I can tell you stories…
Helen @ 84
I’d rather watch O’ Brother Where Art Thou again. Which I am doing. It’s just starting on IFC if anyone is interested.
ccmask @ 88
I went to an all boys military school in the late ’60s so I can prol’ly match your stories. ;})
Phoenix Woman @ 86
After the 2006 elections before the 2008 ones, I would call that impeccable timing. Who is the USA in Alaska and what does anyone know about them?
I’m skipping the tube tonight but I’d love to know what time 20/20 airs so that I can surf over for some instant reaction. What time are the fireworks? Is anyone else concerned that the higher-ups at ABC have put the kibosh on too many inconvenient names being reported in Ross’ reportage? ABC is as bad as CNN IMHO.
Phoenix Woman @ 87
yeah. My son and I just watched the evening news. Vic Kohring sold his vote in exchange for Veco paying off $17K in credit card debt. He changed his vote. They reneged. How pathetic! I always thought Lynn Westmoreland reminded me of Vic. Now I know why.
Jay @ 92
It’s on 20/20 at 10:00 PM ET. It’s probably going to be like Al Capone’s vault. nada ; )
ccmask @ 88
Out with them! dakine too.
The Roast of Larry King, hosted by Bill Maher, is worth a gander!!! Dubya’s cutup was just on after Dr. Phil, and was a hoot!!!
Hugh @ 91
from my #67 above:
Last year, as the indictments were about to start coming down right before the election, the HQ for the investigation was moved from the Alaska US Atty office to DC, where it was put under the control of Alice Fisher - before her promotion to head the DOJ criminal division (that term has even MORE recently been redefined, eh?). From August 2006 until now, the investigation and grand jury activity appeared to be languishing, but?
I’m not ready to comment yet on the current AK US Atty and that office’s relationship to the investigation at this point, other than I don’t think they’ve been involved since late last summer. This is being controlled out of DC as far as I know.
thanks all for the love-
i just wanted to give the first ‘call out’ to people that it is finally ok to say i had one and how it affected me……..never been ok before, that is what i want people to understand, never been ok before to say you had an abortion….was a huge repurcussion….no matter what the reason…….mine was rape, others, may not have been, but ok, no matter the reason, obviously was not a reason to bring a child into the world……..is ok now to speak out and reserve the right to others…….please start speaking.
Quzi @ 79
I noticed you already found me over there ;-) It seems they don’t like files over 7mb … so that is a little problem … if anyone has video of Rudy in drag .. can you email me at randle_p_mcmurphy@yahoo.com .. and put FDL in the subject line … please
dakine01 @ 90
Anytime.
Joe Klein’s conscience @71…nothing like some good clean Repugnant fun on a Friday night. Good choice of videos.
Hugh: I like this part of your link:
In another conversation later that day, Kott told the same executive, “I just want to be the warden in Barbados,” the indictment says. The unnamed company was building a private prison in Barbados.
FOR WHO? Outsourcing American prisoners?