Thomas Schaller once again steps to the plate and points out something that Republicans and netroots Democrats know but which too many "centrist" Democrats have yet to understand: There is no center any more.
Before the 2000 recount had concluded, Bush campaign pollster Matt Dowd wrote Karl Rove a game-changing memo in which Mr. Dowd marveled that the center of the American electorate had disappeared. They had expected split-ticket voters to account for about one-quarter of the electorate, but the figure was closer to 6 percent.
Mr. Rove promptly announced he would target for mobilization millions of evangelicals who did not turn out to vote in 2000.
And guess who gave the Republicans that crushing margin of midterm victory in 2002? Yupper, the evangelicals.
Schaller continues:
After the 2006 elections, one might expect Democrats to respond in kind. Their victories were fueled by votes from their base: union families and households, women, nonwhite voters and younger voters.
Indeed, if Democrats are looking for their counterpart to the evangelical vote, they should turn to unmarried women: They are a majority of American women, they will soon be a majority of female voters, and when they vote, they vote overwhelmingly Democratic. But millions remain unregistered.
Instead, wrongheaded Democratic strategists continue to believe "NASCAR dads" or "soccer moms" hold the keys to a future majority.
That sound you hear is me banging my head against the wall.
You have to wonder: Why haven't the "centrists" and DLCers and Blue Doggers figured this out? Is it that hard to get unmarried women to vote? Do they feel that it's more "manly" to go after the Southern white males, or more "virtuous" to target suburban/exurban white-flight homemakers?
Do they worry that the GOP/Media Complex will attack them for it? (Which they will — but that's SOP; look at how the press made sure recently that Republican talking-points disseminator Brian Williams "moderated" the first Democratic Presidential debate, and Republican talking-points disseminator Chris Matthews "moderated" the Republican Presidential debate.)
Or are they less interested in seeing the Democrats actually win lasting (and progressive) victories because they get their money from the same corporate donors that fund the Republicans? Or is it that decades of gaslighting from the GOP/Media Complex have instilled a sort of learned helplessness in them?
If you look at Schaller's facts and figures, and then look at the polls, you see that the smart thing for the "centrist" Blue Dogs, the Steny Hoyers and the DLC types is not to cave to Bush, but to hit him again, harder. (Especially as their increasingly-worried Republican colleagues are now openly discussing breaking with Bush on Iraq.) Instead, they seek to cave. One has to wonder why.
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Dick Cheney Controls Tim Russert.
Hi there Phoenix !
Phoenix Woman!
(are you OK – you let the Zed escape? :)
I am not a centrist.
*xyz @ 1
Yupper.
kirk murphy @ 3
I felt like letting youse guyz have it for a change. (Sorry about the improvised graphic — it’s the best I could do!)
Rove controls Cheney.
Naturally this begs the question: who controls Rove?
Because that’s their own base and they think if they wish hard enough it will reappear?
a zed? a zed? My kingdom for a zed!
: (
zed shmed … dish!
If anybody didn’t catch the discussion with Schaller on the book salon, it was incredibly enlightening.
Nobody wants to credit him for it but Schaller successfully called much of what happened in the ‘04 election. He may piss off Mudcat Saunders but he should be listened to much more.
Instead, they seek to cave. One has to wonder why.
Since there doesn’t seem to be sex involved, I’ll go with P.D. James’ other motivation for criminal behavior: money. As you’ve noted, the big bucks are in supporting the corporate interests in this country, which seem to be interested in keeping the rest of us as poor and pliable as possible. The “Democratic” consultants who toe the corporate line are going to be the ones you see on CNN and MSNBC.
That might sound cynical, but I’m feeling pretty cynical today.
Or are they less interested in seeing the Democrats actually win lasting (and progressive) victories because they get their money from the same corporate donors that fund the Republicans?
That’s certainly true of a bunch of ‘em. And too many of those are in the ‘leadership’.
Three more indictments – these of current, not former AK legislators – rumored to be coming out any minute. One, Vic Kohring (
Corrupt Bastards’ Club– R – Wasilla), is a longtime adversary and friend. Friday afternoon legislator dump…tip of the iceberg.
Get rid of the DLC!
Four years ago I knew I was in trouble when Pat Buchanan started sounding like he was in the middle.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 8
Rove called Bush’s brain I had read somewhere that on the middle east Ledeen was Rove’s brain!
EPU’d, actually, from two threads ago, is this:
Mind you, we’d want to skip the Regent University precision female subordination squad in this outreach…
Why’s a good question, but I’m more interested in the how…any thoughts?
The DLC is not in the center. This little group is way right of center. Eject them. Along with Lieberman.
Is there a higher power than Rove?
Jane Hamsher @ 13
Yup. The thing is that lots of guys who depend on things staying the way they WRT Democratic consulting (and sucking up to the corporate world) are against Schaller’s book. They’re trying to spread the myth that Schaller’s against the fifty-state strategy when what he’s really against is:
a) trying to win in the South and elsewhere by having Democratic candidates beat up on those other Democrats who are the party’s core-values keepers (you never see any Republicans run in NYC by beating up on Bush, do you?), and:
b) thinking that it’s better to try and win in the South by corrupting our core values instead of catering to, say, the virtually untapped unmarried-woman demographic (which when it votes, votes Democratic) and other demographics nationwide.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 21
The Democratic Losership Conference? Who will tell us dirty hippies to behave?
Somewhat germane: in the course of calling out the NRA for its sudden (and, one suspects, quite insincere) solicitousness for the rights of suspected terrorists, Sandy Levinson suggest that the real divide in American politics is now between statists and individualists.
It’s an interesting thought, worthy of spending some time with.
http://balkin.blogspot.com/200…..cence.html
kathleen @ 18
It is funny but I felt the same way. I remember reading Buchanan in the 80’s on the op-ed pages of the Manchester Union Leader and he seemed so far to the right he was scary…
Nowadays he sounds like a moderate centrist on many issues when compared to the Bill Kristols, Michael Savages and Michelle Malkins of the day.
-GSD
kathleen @ 19
Ledeen’s recent stool sample turned up with large amounts of brain tissue…..Ledeen is one warmongering son of neo-con.
-GSD
GSD @ 26
We,ve gone a long way in the wrong direction sense then…
Cujo359 @ 14
i think this is exactly right. the money and the votes don’t come from the same place. they’re trying to find votes that will support positions that their funding sources will like – not maximize their voting public support.
Nope.
ding!
Phoenix woman,
I have to disagree, even though we’ve both got Arizona in our background (G). The “Center” consists, for example, of people who voted for Bush in 2004 but voted for Democrats in 2006. There are lots of those people– apparently, at least 20% of the electorate.
The problem is that the DLC thinks they know the Center, and they want to brand it a certain way. They know less than they think they do, because they identify themselves as Center, and assume that Centrists must be like them.
What we need is some good polling analysis of people who vote for split tickets at the top. Those are the true centrists.
Bob in HI
kirk murphy @ 3
Yeah – but what about lolo? I hope she didn’t fall off the couch doing the zed dance.
kirk murphy @ 30
But why would we want to depend on the DNC to do this? Why wouldn’t an organization like NARAL (but not, obviously, the evil national NARAL) want to take this on to protect their interests?
If any of those folks who voted yes on the war resolution in 2002 are floating through FDL land or anyone who supported this invasion or any of us who didn’t…take a look at the crisis that our invasion of Iraq has caused. Because we sure as hell are not seeing any of these pictures of the hell on earth that we created for the Iraqi people on Chris Matthews, Olbermann, Lou Dobbs or Scarborough country
go on take a look
http://www.robert-fisk.com/ira…..ar2003.htm
How do any of us sleep at night?
Speaking of “Center”…this just in, from Josh Marshall. Who knew that You-tube was a tool of the Left? Now there’s a video site for conservatives only.
***
This should provide no end of entertainment. Some right-wingers apparently think Youtube is biased against them. So a crew of them have created Qubetv, a right-wing only Youtube, basically like a digital innertube for folks who can’t hack it out on the actual internet. –Josh Marshall
Hey! I’ve almost never been in the majority! Is there a majorette party?
there hasn’t been a center since 2000. And the conclusion that unmarried women could well be the power controllers- well then do it. Go for it.But instead of omiting the married women in this country, just think for one second if both groups joined together. The leadership is there. Screw every single dirty old man who obviously has proven incapable of thinking with anything but his Little Head”
My only warning is: Ya better hurry up cause at the rate that these bastards are destroying the Constitution it won’t take much more for this country to collapse.
billjpa
Phoenix Woman @ 5
One more time so we know for sure.
Loo Hoo @ 36
I joined the Dems for the first time in my life three weeks ago. The way things are going, I might even be in the majority in Alaska by the end of 2008.
kathleen @ 19
It’s all corporate.
Loo Hoo @ 36
Hey Loo Hoo; let’s start one.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 17
No kidding! Why the Democrats think they can beat the Republicans at their own game when they have repeatedly lost elections that way is quite beyond my comprehension. Howard Dean has the right idea. And there is NO WAY I’m voting for Hillary. In fact, the poorer, the better.
CD @ 35
Wonder if this is a reaction to Word Salam Pam Oshry’s stomping off YouTube in a huff after one of her vlog entries got zapped for inappropriate content?
Mutant Poodle @ 33
Kos has been pushing for this for years, saying that this is a great way for NARAL and PP to get women involved. It’s an very good pragmatic idea but he never gets credit for it.
Elizabeth B. @ 42
The Dems must, *MUST* get rid of strategists. They are owned by the same people who own the R’s. When they deign to notice grassroots it’s only to suck up scarce campaign dollars and give local candidates horrible advice. Who needs em?
CD @ 35
Kind of like Conservapedia, huh? Like Stephen Colbert says “Facts have a liberal bias”
(Slightly O/T):
A horse is a horse, of course, of course...
The secretary for Monica Goodling’s lawyer moonlighted as an escort for the D.C. madam.
Instead, wrongheaded Democratic strategists continue to believe “NASCAR dads” or “soccer moms” hold the keys to a future majority.
This really is the only place where Howard Dean gets it wrong.
His statement about finding a way to appeal to white guys with confederate flags on their pickups is just silly. I wager that if Pew does a survey of confederate flag owners they’ll find fewer than 5% vote democrat. Similar for members of extremist right wing congregations. (The surveys of self-described “evangelicals” don’t count, because that is a broader term than most people realize.)
Better is to hit — and hit hard — the issues the Democratic base loves. Interestingly, most of those issues also reasonate with the non-aligned middle.
Openly gay Headline News anchor Thomas Roberts has just been shitcanned by CNN.
Why am I not surprised?
Hit ‘em again, hit ‘em again, harder, harder.
It’s more fun, too.
Coupla threads late, but I wanted to tell y’all: I got a NARAL mailing yesterday, very big and important-looking with that silly not-really-hand-written stuff on it, with a return envelope. I folded up all the parts of the mailing, wrote LIEBERMAN and FIRE NANCY KEENAN all over it, stuffed it in the envelope, stuck a coupla stamps on it and dropped it in the mail today.
Oh, and I heard Andy Stern speak today. The man has a plan for our future.
Elizabeth B. @ 42
The DLC/Blue Dog/”centrist” types emulate Republican policies instead of strategies. The only time they’re tough is when they’re beating up on other Democrats.
In a perfect world, the Democratic establishment would like to control the government *and* receive tons of easy corporate money, and that’s the path they’ve been trying to map out for the past 15 years or so.
But failing that, they want to at least make sure they get that corporate money.
Phoenix Woman @ 23
Maybe I am wrong, but isn’t one of Mudcat’s pet peeves the gun issue? I don’t think he’s arguing for appealing wholesale to the NASCAR dad as much as drop the gun issue in the south and be more Webb type populist, and you can drive the stake into the Republiscum in the South as well. Basically there are a bunch of one issue voters down there.
WRONG!
The center is where the donkey is now. The elephant has fallen off the right edge of the earth. The line is crumpled and burned where the elephant used to be. The right wing noise machine has pulled the donkey right by characterizing websites (such as this) of adopting the (very reasonable) position of holding the government to account for its choices as “far left.” Our democratic politicians move right to appear “centrist”, while republicans abandon traditional conservative positions for madness.
masaccio @ 50
Yup. Don’t emulate their policies — if you must emulate anything about them, emulate their strategies and tactics.
And as I think I have posted here before, the DLC’s role is to give the Democrats a fig leaf for pursuing pro-corporate, pro-military policies: “No, no, we’re not in the tank for corporate interests – we’re appealing to the center! It’s STRATEGY!”
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 47
Republics have been in charge for far too long.
Jane Hamsher @ 44
Kos has been pushing for this for years, saying that this is a great way for NARAL and PP to get women involved. It’s an very good pragmatic idea but he never gets credit for it.
Just to clarify – is anyone doing it, whether or not Kos gets the credit? Is it something Emily’s list might raise funds for (even though, I agree, NARAL & PP have the infrastructure to get it going faster)?
Now would be the time to get this going…
I had a wonderful converstation tonite with a 16 year old girl by the Lean Cuisines. She reminded me of Cassie! Interested, worried, knew her politics (except she didn’t know about the Prayer Fest/Government Affair or Gannon), but now she does. Before I opened the freezer door, she was conversing with a gentleman who told her she could one day be president. We all talked for 10 minutes and it was great. I told them not to buy Exxon/Mobil and they thought that was a pretty good idea.
wthii @ 55
Go check the latest polls and the links in my post. (As well as the results of the last election.) Not wrong.
Badwater @ 58
I’m currently trying to decide between “Redubyacans” and “Rebubblicans”, which amount to much the same thing.
OT: paris hilton sentenced to 45 days in jail. judge threw the book. there is justice.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..ris_hilton
Phoenix Woman @ 61
Had we known the elephant was going to fall….
rosalind @ 63
But who will look after her current novelty toy dog now?
Phoenix Woman @ 52
The DLC types are just wolves in sheep’s clothing … they are big business types .. who want to look cool .. to look like they are looking out for the little guy .. when they are f–king the little guy over behind his back
Whoever’s winning figures (correctly) that they’ve got to steal some votes from the team that’s winning- the team that’s winning always figures that they can keep goin in the direction they’re goin. Now that the dems have won one- goopers will start with the “steal” calculation.
Lots of money has been lost in business trying to enlarge the market and pull in current “non-users”. Turns out that it takes ten times as much effort to bring in someone who is not currently a customer for your product (say bicycles) than it is to take a bike customer away from the competition. I suspect that similar numbers hold true in politics. Adding non-voters is VERY expensive and not very rewarding. Effort is better spent elsewhere- but this game will continue to be played.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 66
They are basically corporatists masquerading as pragmatic centrists.
Eli @ 57
::laughs:: And they think we believe it, too. I really loathe the DLC. It is poison to the Democratic party.
Eli @ 65
Are you serious? That’s the best thing to ever happen to that dog!
I don’t think any organization can be depended on for anything.
This past election, the president of VA NOW wrote a letter to the WaPoop about how the “smart, savvy women” she knew weren’t gonna bother to vote because George Allen and Jim Webb were like, too macho for them. I sent her an e-mail pointing out just a few of the ten thousand ways Webb was, uh, better for women’s issues than Allen, and what a disservice she was doing to the women of Virginia by encouraging them to not vote. I also asked her to endorse Webb.
The response, in essence: “Oh, we’re a nonpolitical organization. It’s not our job to endorse candidates. It’s up to the Democratic party to get Webb elected.
“Well……except for Frank Wolff’s opponent. We like her.”
Idiot.
The Democratic Party moved way to the right under Bill Clinton. Bush just moved the right so far to right that everything looks crooked. By the way, I don’t think invading foreign countries in the name of spreading Democracy, or even to enforce UN sanctions falls under any Right Wing Policy. Bush just made that one up.
Oops- I screwed that last one up. Should read- team that’s losing figures it’s got to steal voters from the team that’s winning.
Eli @ 65
Thank the heavens, there is a DOG.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 66
I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this, but in addition to the DLC, I think also lobbies like A*P*C are cozied up to at this countrys peril.
[Mod Note; edited to clear the filters]
“A senior U.S. commander was wounded Thursday by small arms fire while inspecting a controversial security barrier being built by the military to separate a Sunni enclave from surrounding Shiite areas in northern Baghdad, the U.S. said Friday. The officer’s name was not released”
I wonder who the commander is?
This surge had better start working quick….now the Shiites are fighting the Shiites and the Sunnis are fighting the Sunnis…and they call THAT progress.
If you read the article note the big push on Iranian weaponry…The old conservative addage about not blaming the weapons dealers don’t apply in Iraq.
-GSD
P.S. Note the commander was inspecting the wall that the “democratic government” of Iraq said they didn’t want built.
CNN interviewed CARNE ROSS, former British expert on Iraq. He confirms what the murdered British diplomat David Kelly claimed. Iraq War was based on a fraud cooked up by Bush and the neo-cons. I think his book is called “Independent Diplomat”.
Cujo359 @ 14
I agree. I also think that what is missing in the American political spectrum is not the centre but the left.
Eli @ 65
The help.
Loo Hoo @ 78
But where’s the love? The connection? The being carried around all day in a handbag?
Eli @ 62
Redubyacans!
Notice (at the debate last night, for instance) that they all wanted to avoid talking about Bush. Chain that turkey and his war to their necks.
Loo Hoo @ 79
She should totally sneak Tinkerbell (the dog) into prison. For Protection. You know how it is when you get into jail. You got to have your bitch.
Also, as predicted, the Democrats have been in congressional power for a few months and the far right wing-nut fringe is gearing up for violence.
The recent arrest of a well armed militia in Alabama, I believe, was planning on machine gunning some immigrants..
Also a threat against Hillary Clinton from someone in Louisiana and also Obama has been placed under SS protection.
Thomas Sowell is getting a chubby just thinking about a coup detat.
-GSD
Fern @ 77
Why do you think the only Democratic “Strategists” you see on Leslie Blizter’s program are Donna Brazile and that Robert Zimmerman imposter?
Fern @ 77
Yes, I’d say that’s true. Even proponents of single-payer or other “socialized” forms of medical establishments are often considered crazy leftists here, even though much of the civilized world uses such systems and they certainly have advantages over ours.
Mark Shields and David Brooks were just on the NewsHour doing their weekly Dumb and Dumber routine. Shields admits yet again how much he likes McCain. The man (Shields) is a radical I tell you. Both agree that the Republicans have a strong field, which is no doubt why they spent most of the rest of their time talking about how most Republicans are looking for anybody other than the 10 guys who debated last night. Somehow that disconnect never registered on them but then disconnects never do.
In some ways I wish I had seen the debate Shields and Brooks did because the one I saw had nothing but lame clowns.
Eli @ 80
Right here:
http://glamourdog.com/
Eli @ 80
Have you ever looked closely? It’s not the same dog, ever. They are, um, disposable.
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 80
I also invented the word “Dubyatross”, but it’s not getting much traction…
Dump Terry McCauliffe!
Broder “center” = ( Joe Lieberman plus Ellen Tauscher plus Stenny Hoyer) / 3
Broder “angry left” = ( Jim Webb plus John Tester plus Russ Feingold)/3
I really don’t understand the failure of democratic politicians to hit harder. It clearly works for the jerks on the other side, so why don’t we?
In October, 1992, I was taking my excellent daughter to school, with NPR on the radio, talking about some scurrilous attack from the rs on Bill Clinton, and she asked my why we didn’t hit back harder. I gave a silly explanation about how democrats tried to campaign on the issues. What a wuss I was. Fortunately, my now-grown excellent daughter believes in stomping them while they are down, and is learning how to put that into practice.
On a range of “No” to “Some” to “A Lot” to “Total” government *control* over our lives the following is how the political labels have been used (often more in rhetoric than in practice).
Used to be: Libertarians, Conservative Repubs (think Goldwater), North Eastern Liberal Repubs (think Nixon or GHW Bush), DLC Dems (think Clinton), Dems (think Carter), Liberals (think McGovern or Jerry Brown), Socialists, Soviet Commies
Bush 2000: Libert., Repubs, Compassionate Conservative Bush, Dems (Gore), Liberals, Socialists, Soviet Commies
Actual: Libert., Repubs, Dems, Liberals, Socialists, Bushies, Soviet Commies
Thus, those who voted for Bush in 2000 were voting based on a PR lie. Later ( much later, after the war in Iraq became unpopular ) they saw the “Actual” positioning of Dubya and voted their hearts again — and seeing no real Compassionate Conservatives they voted for Dems of all stripes.
Of course, in terms of protecting individual rights the value attributed to governmental *regulation* (as opposed to *control*) is viewed by most Dems as being very good.
Where I see things going is that we Dems need to regulate, but without controlling or being ‘tax & spenders’, so we can relate better to Liberal Repubs and Libertarians. To me this might help Dems control larger numbers of the electorate.
I can imagine Progressives finding some kind of common ground that true Liberals might abhor.
So, this is one area for which I’d like to see a better assessment of our current Dem candidates.
How would you align them on ‘government control over our lives’ or on ‘upholding civil rights’?
I don’t wonder why…
Dem Blue Dogs are bein’ paid to help the ReThugs make Murkkka safe fer da
Corporate Slave State
That is why we must Get us some ‘BLue Dogs’!
[Mod Note; edited to removed violence]
The Alaska legislature is considering suspending activities until the current set of raids in Juneau is over. Wasilla Representative Vic Kohring, who so far today has evaded FBI teams at his Juneau and Wasilla offices, was last seen driving toward Mt. McKinley in a white Bronco.
masaccio @ 91
I think they’re gunshy because the Republicans and media always accuse them of being Teh Shrill every time they say something truthful.
It’s not a good excuse, but I think that’s where they’re coming from. I want more Webbs and Hacketts.
Ed*ard Teller @ 95
Isn’t that what OJ Simpson was driving?
Washington Week in Review: John Harris of the Politico, Zeleny of the NYT, and Dufy from Time. In other words, it is the attack of the corporate yawns.
HotFlash @ 45
Good time for a book plug: Crashing the Gates, Jerome Armstrong and Markos Moulitsas
Hugh at 86: “. . .Both agree that the Republicans have a strong field, which is no doubt why they spent most of the rest of their time talking about how most Republicans are looking for anybody other than the 10 guys who debated last night.”
This is the kind of succcess I wish for all them over there, on the far down side of the abyss.
Hugh – Poor Mark Shields rarely finds a punch that he can’t convinced himself to hold back. Alas, he’s increasingly tone deaf to the political realities. I used to carve out time to listen to Shields and Bobo on Friday afternoons, to get the pulse of the convention wisdom, occasionally relishing Shields’ historical anaologies. Doesn’t happen much any more.
Hugh @ 85
I haven’t seen it, but I’ve seen parts, and I wasn’t too impressed. In fact, one could say I have the exact opposite impression of Shields and Brookes, which is that if those ten are the best and the brightest of one major party in this country, we’re in a lot of trouble.
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 47
Interesting..was she in the $40-60 tier
or the $300 fantasy tier?
Phoenix Woman you have hit the nail on the head.
The one thing the the Republicans have always had and used was their base.
It is about time that the powers that be in the Democratic party understand that we have one too and its time that we use it.
That means grassroots and netroots. IMHO, there is no difference.
A. Citizen at 94 – would you mind rephrasing that exhortation?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 4
Way EPU’d but neither am I. Never have been and probably never will be.
K.O., on last night’s debate; “…Ten of the whitest men you’ll ever meet!” Bwaahahaha!!! Evening, Fellow Pups!
CTuttle @ 106
God, I hope not.
At a time when the electorate is moving left, when all eyes are on the Democrats to see what they are going to do with the power they just won, the Democratic “leadership” is hell-bent on alienating their base and dragging the party to the right. It is just insane.
Six more months of this and the Democrats might as well concede the 2008 election to the Republicans. People will take the devil they know over someone who can’t make up their mind every time.
read no comments yet.
OT: KO: lmao Ron vs. Hillery
wthii@55 I tend to agree with.
honestly, i have some mildly conservative friends and neighbors, and the more decent among them have been buffaloed by 2 decades of the right wing scream machine. when you engage them on actual policy they show there’s much more of a center than we currently think.
ironically the DLC and beltway consultant types prevent Dems from gaining their support. instead of articulating actual policies that sane people agree on, Dems are advised to sell out those policies in an attempt to be non-offensive to the 28% who would throw us all in a concentration camp if they had their way. and in the process, the people in the middle see – rightly, i believe – a lack of ethics, of sincerity, of values, of leadership – and won’t vote for the Dem, even though someone with better leadership skills, Kennedy, say, would still get their vote, even today.
the center does exist, but you cannot capture it by evasiveness and mealy-mouthed proclamations. you can capture it by stating what you believe and leaving the door open for people who disagree with you sometimes to work with you the rest of the time.
and isn’t that a great way to be the opposite of the Republican authoritarian cultists?
wthii@55 I tend to agree with.
honestly, i have some mildly conservative friends and neighbors, and the more decent among them have been buffaloed by 2 decades of the right wing scream machine. when you engage them on actual policy they show there’s much more of a center than we currently think.
ironically the DLC and beltway consultant types prevent Dems from gaining their support. instead of articulating actual policies that sane people agree on, Dems are advised to sell out those policies in an attempt to be non-offensive to the 28% who would throw us all in a concentration camp if they had their way. and in the process, the people in the middle see – rightly, i believe – a lack of ethics, of sincerity, of values, of leadership – and won’t vote for the Dem, even though someone with better leadership skills, Kennedy, say, would still get their vote, even today.
the center does exist, but you cannot capture it by evasiveness and mealy-mouthed proclamations. you can capture it by stating what you believe and leaving the door open for people who disagree with you sometimes to work with you the rest of the time.
and isn’t that a great way to be the opposite of the Republican authoritarian cultists?
The Dems have to reach every voter group in 2008. Another Republican administration is unthinkable!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 17
w3rd
That’s not cynical. It’s pure plain and simple truth.
It don’t take a lawyer, or a psychoanalyst, or a a bunch of corporate consultants to figger it out, either.
It’s war. Have’s, v. Have Less. Simple.
Want your country back?
Gonna have to fight for it, and not count on ANY established political mindset, including the Pseudo Dem’s. They are as much in love with Leo Strauss, as are the ReThugs.
They are people of wealth, people of property, and they dont want’ anyone else gettin anymore than THEY have.
Harumph.
Ed*ard Teller @ 16
TPM is ALL over this. Check them out.
In keeping with the John Wayne imaging:
“The Sons Of Leo Strauss”
I think it a big mistake to depend on existing advocacy organizations to do any sort of outreach to non-voting women between the ages of 18 and 30. I also think it a huge mistake to assume that Reproductive Rights issues are what will move them to vote.
Let’s face it — most who read this and other progressive blogs are people who vote in virtually every election. We are high-information voters — know the issues, and understand process and how candidate choices might impact those issues.
Let’s be honest — we don’t know a whole lot about younger non-voting women — so what needs to be done is to study this part of the population, try to find out what would motivate greater information gathering followed by a response of registering and voting Democrat.
We don’t need this information universally, but we do need to get good information about various demographic indicators. Rural/Urban/Suburban, 4 year college/voc-tech 2 year program/High School only/didn’t finish High School. Lives at parents home/lives independently. Income levels.
Then we need to know something about alienation from existing politics — what kind of Campaign presentations turn off or disinterest this group. What issues do they believe should be addressed that would interest them? Do they have a sense of what is a political issue and what is not something that can be addressed politically? There are more questions — but this is a start.
I think we should talk to Howard Dean about putting together a small study of this sort — find some good Democratic Sociologists who could design the study, design an interview schedule, and then perhaps train and use women in College Democrats to actually do the interviews. It does not have to be a national study — in fact it should be done in a selection of states where we already are developing good data bases, and where we can find professional volunteers who could process and do an analysis of the data. Then state parties where we really need these votes can construct a more intelligent outreach campaign that is finely concentrated on this under represented voter pool. If I were selecting states right now, I would look at the purple ones — Ohio, Virginia, maybe Kentucky, West Virginia, Iowa, Missouri, Wisconsin, Nevada, New Mexico, Colorado.
To be effective, we have to know why these women do not participate in politics — and we need to be honest and recognize we don’t know. It may be that assumptions we make in campaign design actually turn this group off.
We also don’t know how to organize among them, do we? My guess is we have to find people recognizable as part of this group to take up the organizational work. We may need several strategies — the same approach to Urban non voting women may be inappropriate to Rural non voting women. I suspect many in this group are single mom’s raising children alone — what are our candidates across the ticket saying that might attract these women? I doubt if family values talk attracts them if it is presented in Ozzie and Harriet terms — and if they decided to have a child alone, they would be turned off by Reproductive Choice talk. But discussion of Day Care, Health Care for Kids, and Family Leave might be very salient. In otherwords, if we don’t understand this culture — or set of sub-cultures, we aren’t going to get the message right.
I think Howard Dean is savey enough that he would see the point of this, but could also see how it should be “spun off” to an independent group to research the potential voter segments. Then it would be just appropriate to organize within targeted states, the approach to outreach. It might also be necessary to connect with Campaign officials so as to help them understand how to focus the message.
But right now we need to understand that as activist bloggers and voters — we really don’t know this population well — and if we want to mine it as a source of potential voters, we need to learn why they are turned off politics.
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 47
Oh SWEET Justice!!!!!
I can’t wait till it comes out that the ReThuggery Wimmen’s used the same services, too . . . . ya NEVER get to hear racy tales of ReThug Lesbian Lust!!!! And you KNOW, it’s out there.
Getting them outed will pretty much wipe out the Family Values Joke options, and kill the theo’s.
Be nice to find, they are just like the REST of american and the world!!! NORMAL!
Dont’ depend too much upon the young or single women. The Repugs constantly shout hate and make the democratic process all scary and war-like. But a lot of people simply don’t like being told they have to go to war and they’ll just curl up in little balls of fear and wait out the war/election.
Being loving and supportive, as Dems tend to be, can help bring more people to the polls, but don’t expect much more than that.
Looks like a dead thread, but what the hell…
Seems to me it’s not the center that’s disappeared: there is no Left. Conservatives have moved the discourse very far to the right while simultaneously attacking “liberals” who had to move to the center or be defined by the Great Right Wing Noise Machine as “the far left fringe.” The Left represents stuff like socialism (gasp!): that’s strictly off-limits in today’s media atmosphere. (Maybe because the media are controlled by large-monied interests, ie, capitalists?)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 22
Though fired by (for being caught?) Papa Turd, there would be Papa Turd, who is part and parcel of Council of Foreign Relations which in turn is controlled by The stellar big money families (Rockefellers, Morgans, Mellons, etc.). Read America Rules by Tom Hannahoe, obtainable through http://www.amazon.co.uk
Terribly EPU’d, by multi-time zones
kathleen @ 28
Pat Buchanan hasn’t changed at all. He’s still the extreme right wing populist nationalist he’s always been. What you’re hearing nowadays are the beefs he has with the neoconservatives. He’s an isolationist, and they aren’t.
As the diagram clearly shows, this is why it’s important for both Republican and Democrats to stay out of a woman’s uterus.
- Tom
May Dem honchos don’t organize their base because of simple sexism. Much like racism, nobody ever actually thinks THEY are guilty of it,no matter how flagrant the evidence. Frankly, I even get a recurring whiff of it from one of your regular posters on this blog.