Not to mention dazed and confused…
Via Steve Benen, here's Dana Milbank in the Washington Post today, proving that Dubya truly believes in recycling:
President Bush is at odds with the American public and a restive congressional majority over the Iraq war, and even some Republicans talk about imposing new requirements that could trigger a troop withdrawal.
It's time to play the Qaeda card.
In a speech about Iraq yesterday morning at the Willard Hotel, the president mentioned Osama bin Laden's group — 27 times. "For America, the decision we face in Iraq is not whether we ought to take sides in a civil war, it's whether we stay in the fight against the same international terrorist network that attacked us on 9/11," Bush told a group of construction contractors.
. . . "I don't need to remind you who al-Qaeda is," Bush reminded. "Al-Qaeda is the group that plot and planned and trained killers to come and kill people on our soil. The same bunch that is causing havoc in Iraq were the ones who came and murdered our citizens."
As Milbank notes, even Fox News was having trouble buying the new-old spin:
These awkward truths left White House press secretary Tony Snow with hard work at the podium in his first televised briefing since returning from cancer surgery.
Fox News Channel's Bret Baier noted: "This morning the president said that al-Qaeda seems to be a bigger problem than sectarian violence. That seems to fly in the face of what we've heard in recent weeks and months on the ground in Iraq."
"Well," the game press secretary replied, "you've got a shifting series of circumstances."
In other words, they even lose support from their wingnut base in the polls when they admit Iraq is in the middle of a civil war.
Elsewhere on the denial and reused-slogans front, another WaPo story reports from Egypt, where Condoleezza Rice is attending a multi-nation conference and an anonymous aide briefed reporters:
For their part, the official said, Arab governments need to show more appreciation of the problems Maliki faces and the progress, however slow, he has made. Iraq's Sunni Arab neighbors, including Saudi Arabia, do not understand "what's really happening in Iraq," he said.
Yes, that was an American official accusing others of not knowing what's going on in Iraq. For the sake of irony, the article goes on to quote Condi:
This week's gathering of foreign ministers, following a preparatory "neighbors conference" in Baghdad in March, is the beginning of a lengthy process, Rice said. "The most important message I'll be delivering is that a stable, unified and democratic Iraq is an Iraq that will be a pillar of stability in the Middle East," she said.
Yes, and owning a unicorn will help me get to work without spending money on gas (and give me a handy place to hang my jacket). If, that is, a unicorn existed in the first place.
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Swopa!
Babs Comstock alert! MSNBC right now.
Swopa!
Woo! Got the first, and I’d read it.
I keep thinking we’re about to see this man’s head actually short-circuit. I mean, “I’m the commander guy”?!?! I hope the people who voted for him are quite proud of themselves. As a former Texan, I want a bumper sticker that says “Don’t blame me, I voted for Richards, Mauro, Gore & Kerry.”
It probably wouldn’t help family relations if I suggest to my brothers-in-law that they just let me tell them who to vote for from here on out, huh?
-from above
This whole thing’s the collossal disaster it is because our Commandant-in-Chief NEVER understood what was really happening in Iraq
What a turd. There was NO Al Qaeda operating in Iraq b4 Bush2 invaded it!
The manifest dysfunction of this administration is more apparent each day. They are like drug addicts who in “diseased and distorted reason,” believe their own lies…………….
Flush these irresponsible hypocrites away!!!!!!!
BTW, I supported impeachment of Bubba also.
He lied under oath as the chief executive.
But his lies did not result in the death of half a million iraqis and 3200 Americans. Bases on an invasion of lies made to America
May his spectacular, public meltdown happen soon. Not by degrees, please.
Isn’t this a completely different Al Qaeda group?
another layer of irony added when you consider that the terrible attacks were, at minimum, allowed to happed by the VP, Darth Cheney.
see http://georgewashington.blogspot.com/
James Joyce at 7
Yes, the addiction analogy is glaring, isn’t it?
Bil @ 6
There was Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, but we knew exactly where his camp was. And it was in the no-fly zone in the north so we could have taken him out before the war even started. or at first strike.
Did BushCo leave him in place so they could always point to him as the Al Qaeda connection?
Loyal to Oil vs. the Constitution
which will prevail?
Geoff Hoon, who was UK defence secretary at the time of the invasion of Iraq, said “We didn’t plan for the right sort of aftermath,” adding that with hindsight the UK should have anticipated the Sunni-Shia violence.
“we perhaps didn’t do enough to see it through the Sunni perspective. Perhaps we should have done more to understand their position,” he said.
*******
No one could have anticipated Sunni Shia violence — unless they took a freshman level World History class.
Stability will get you…stability!
Now, I ain’t had no drugs recently so it can’t be a hallucination, but wasn’t there a post from Jane up a little while ago? I’m sure I didn’t imagine it.
Al Qaeda is the gift that keeps giving.
9/11 was the best thing that ever happened to him. Without it his ratings would have continued their inexorable decline, so he could have whittled down to his core 25% support a lot sooner.
Makes you wonder if he ever planned to get Osama at all.
I do like the way they attribute attacks in Iraq to Al Qaeda, the Baath party or Al Sadr, depending on their needs of the moment. I think they’ve moved past caring whether any of their statements passes the ludicrous test any longer.
And the press is content to parrot any of these lies and idiocy. Bush could be recounting his tripped out vision of the animals he can see in the clouds and the press would regurgitate it all breathlessly, bill it as a ’stunning new development’.
I could wallow in voyeuristic glee at this slow motion train wreck – except for the lives, money and damage to the world this has been racking up.
dakine01 @
16
My bad brain, forgot Swopa was posting. It’ll be up soon.
OT The NYT is naming Clark Hoyt as its new public editor replacing Calame. It’s apparently a 2 year position. Hoyt IIRC was at Knight-Ridder and is the guy who tasked Warren Stroebel and Jonathan Landay to investigate Bush Admistration claims in the run up to the Iraq war. Their reporting did all the things that other newspapers, oh say like the Times itself, could have done to debunk the Bush case for war but didn’t do. We shall have to see how Hoyt performs in his new position but it may be that the NYT and Bill Keller may have finally done something right.
do-si-do @ 13
it will not be Bush/Cheney
do-si-do @ 11
yes yes addiction.
I know all about that, can’t seem to stay away from the lake long enough to get any work done ;)
must.post.now.must.post.now.must.post
do-si-do @ 13
Duh?
Bil @ 6
Well, there was Zarqawi? who was operating in the Kurdish area where Saddam had no control and we did. Then they got to claim he was the leader of AlQuaeda in Iraq after the invasion.
I did a quick content analysis of the president’s veto speech the other night. Eight uses of “Al Qaeda”, eight uses of “Iraq.”
I’m so tired of this horseshit. Isn’t there a news organization in the country who thinks it might be good for business to demonstrate Bush is a liar, and ask him and his message factory questions about nothing else but this until they fess up?
Nothing is more deserving of a media frenzy than this grand lie, especially when the president himself admitted there was no Iraqi connection to the 9/11 attacks only a few months ago.
Well, I saw my first ‘Republicans for Voldemort’ bumpersticker yesterday. It may count as progress toward something-or-other.
Hugh @ 19
that is encouraging. thanks for posting.
spurious @ 15
too bad BushCo never took this truth into consideration
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident
Jane Hamsher @
18
Did you read the story in Sunday’s NYTimes on Chemo brain? I sent the link to my sister and she’s three years plus but still feeling the effects.
Heh. Did you ever get your jacket back?
Makes you wonder if he ever planned to get Osama at all.
I have wondered about this myself. Bin Laden definitely put him over the top in 04.
Fearmongering requires a bogeyman.
dakine01 @
16
Maybe you’re psychic, and it was a premonition…
Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama has been placed under the protection of the U.S. Secret Service, reportedly because of a threat against him, the Secret Service said Thursday.
from CNN
Swopa @ 32
There was, it was about the WAPO article on the dems surrendering.
Swopa @ 32
Prol’ly more like psychotic when I see what the idiot in the WH has done to my country and constitution.
OT-but funny!
LINK
Good on ya, Steny!
I have a theory as to why the presidential campaign began so very early this election cycle. It is that most people recognize, more on the left, but also the clear-eyed on the right, that we do not have a President. As we all know nature and politics abhor a vacuum. Given the lack of will and insufficient time to impeach, this early campaigning is about all the body politic can do to address the vacuum.
And if I could shit Tiffany cufflinks, I’d be a snappy dresser!
EPU’d – Anybody watching the Publican debates tonight?
P J Evans @
25
I actually have seen people in a debate forum post that. These are people who are sort of distancing themselves from Bush; they say he isn’t a “real” conservative.
raven @ 33
here we go
Elliott @ 21
I know! The more I read the more alarmed I am and the more reassurance I need that these terrific truthseekers are ON IT! And they are…thank goodness.
I feel like someone has died and no one is talking about it (except here on the toobz). I went to a school function and looked around the room wondering, do these people know our very way of governing ourselves is in serious trouble? Do they know?
This is my support group. Thanks firedogs!
Every argument for staying in Iraq is an even better argument for why it was a blunder of colossal proportions to have invaded in the first place.
Since there were no al-Qaeda in Iraq before we overthrew the government and created a failed state, if it made sense to fight them militarily at all, it would have been better to do it in Afghanistan than on multiple fronts.
(And that’s without even getting into how small a portion of the violence in Iraq is “al-Qaeda.”)
The probability of your owning a Unicorn are much better than any chance of Condi&Bush producing “a stable, unified and democratic Iraq”.
TheOtherWA @ 36
cute!
Mandrake @ 39
Blood pressure would NOT stand up to it without some REAL good buds.
jayackroyd @ 31
Bogeyman
raven @ 33
I wonder who threatened him?
Exxon Mobile, ConocoPhillips, SHell…….
A bit OT, but has it occurred to anyone that the most effective response for the Democrats in Congress to Bush’s veto might be to pass a “clean” special appropriation that lasts only until the regular defense appropriation bill is passed (roughly October, I believe). At that point, all Iraq war spending would be folded into the regular DOD bill, with withdrawal timetables attached. If the Chimperor vetoes it, he can say good-bye to all regular defense spending, in which all war spending should have been included all along anyway.
gman @ 49
I think that’s probably Murtha’s plan.
john in sacramento @ 47
“THE POWER OF NIGHTMARES” If it is not the commies it is the islamic commies or something like that??????
On the Clock @ 24
No, because ownership is concentrated in the hands of those who are enriched by Bush’s iniquitous activities.
old gold @ 37
Oh, yes. I do agree. Even my thirteen year old agrees. The other day, when I pointed out to him how much time there is between now and the next election (ahhhh, must be patient) that people are SOOOOO ready for the next election, he said Well, I guess they just all hate Bush so much, they just can’t wait.
From the mouths of babes. Well, we talk a lot of politics in our house. His favorite is The Word on Stephen Colbert. Just to say, all TV is not bad.
And…Commander Guy? Did y’all see the NYT? And, what’s next? Veto Man. Yeah. With his trusty, rusty WMD, The Rubber Stamp!
spurious @ 52
Except for maybe the folks at McClatchey who seem to be voices in the wilderness.
do-si-do @ 42
I know! I’d still be under the bed if it weren’t for the lake, and you, and you’all!
And now I’m DOing things that go to fixing “the problem” instead of just crabbing and fretting about it all.
Bush avoided attacking Zarqawi on three occasions before the invasion so he could claim that Iraq was harboring terrorists. Saddam Hussein was hostile to Al Qaeda and tried to capture Zarqawi.
AN AMERICAN SOLUTION
If there be no greater sacrifice than to lay down one’s life in defense of freedom so others may live; then it stands that the intentional manipulation of “reason” and the ‘systematic instillation; of “falsehoods,” leading to war triggering unwarranted death and destruction constitutes a high crime. In moments of crisis the rule of law provided guidance. The wisdom of our founders provides a path less taken. America has always reaffirmed the values we hold dear, like, “…. liberty and justice for all.” Given its plain and ordinary meaning, not some twisted legalese designed to deny someone protection from government policies, good or bad?
Our founders laid the foundation for America’s solution to our devastated credibility and moral authority in this world. It is a demonstrative corrective measure. A growing consensus of Americans now understand, not unlike our founders understood, with great reluctance, what was their duty. This duty is now, ours. It does not require the loss of life encountered when charging a hill, to take the enemy position. It does not require the loss of one’s limbs in fulfilling the obligations of one’s duty. It does require the exercise of logic, purposeful reasoning and the sanctity of quiet introspection afforded by our freedoms, protected by the rule of law. The name given to this process, enabled by constitutional law is, impeachment.
Impeachment of Bush/Cheney on charges of high crimes and misdemeanors against the United States for the willful and intentional manipulation of Iraqi pre war intelligence, for morphing a legitimate war against terrorist into an unwarranted military invasion / occupation of Iraq for oil. Driven by short term economic expediency, failed policies as applied to America’s / the World’s Global energy needs, its deleterious effect on this planet’s bios, all, while lining the pockets of the interests they represent, at the expense of life. Four hundred billions dollars spent and all this death and destruction.
“Faith, ” alone, in the absence of “reason,” the supreme beings greatest gift to man, is extinction. Duty to the “Constitution” no matter how ugly requires impeachment and is a necessary first step in reestablishing America’s credibility and moral authority before the “governed” and the nations of the world, but most important of all, for the people of Iraq whose “liberation” has been a misguided evisceration of life from Iraqi society. If the actions of the current occupants of this executive branch are not deemed sufficient to warrant impeachment, what will? For the failure to follow the rule of law, to fight a war where the reasons proffered but in the end, valid not, except for the fact of the continued senseless Slaughter, in Iraq, at the hands of policy makers who utilized our nations pride and those who had died, when America cried.
April #104 Good men, now gone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident
Rocket Scientist @ 44
out of the mouths of rocket scientists come great truths
I know Harvard and Yale somehow cover the concept of irony in the course of getting an advanced degree. And any high school before that. Bush missed every single lesson.
~~~~~~~
For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
April 24, 2007
President Bush Discusses Iraq War Supplemental
“Precipitous withdrawal from Iraq is not a plan to bring peace to the region or to make our people safer at home. Instead, it would embolden our enemies and confirm their belief that America is weak. It could unleash chaos in Iraq that could spread across the entire region.”
~~~~~~
Yes, we have to stop chaos from occurring in Iraq. None there now and it isn’t about to start by golly!
What happened to Jane’s post?
maunga @ 59
I discovered it was an early almost hallucination that will return later for all of us. :})
Mandrake @ 39
I’ll be watching. And I’m waiting to see if the questions are the same type that the Dems were asked.
Yes, and owning a unicorn will help me get to work without spending money on gas (and give me a handy place to hang my jacket). If, that is, a unicorn existed in the first place.
and if we had some ham, we could make a ham omelette…except we don’t have any eggs
UNICORN! http://www.unicorncentre.co.uk…..ng-for.jpg
jayackroyd @ 31
If he hadn’t existed they would have had to invent him.
gman
Giving a short leash to the spending bill accomplishes everything the dems want to accomplish- they can separately say that any future appropriation depends on progress against benchmarks. Since the bill itself would be “clean”- it would be very difficult for Clusterfuck to veto it- and it would be on his head if he did.
I think that’s the best way to go from here. Dems would walk away with a major victory and probably bring a lot of goopers on board WHICH IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO DO RIGHT NOW.
Okay, I just have to point out something weird I’ve noticed here. When I started writing letters and such about the war, back in 2004 up to now, I always used the term, “the American public” instead of “the American people” which was so overused by the Bush admin. and all Repubs to whip up war fever and such. I didn’t read it anywhere, I just started to use it of my own volition. I did not want to associate myself with their language and framing of things (or rather, marketing of wars).
It’s just funny because I have noticed for a while that commentators and writers on our side have been using the “American public” term as opposed to the “American people” since November.
Are we all sharing the same brain?? :)
P.S. — The “War on Terror” has been rebranded as the “War Against Islamic Jihadism” — listen up for the new “label”
you guys have to watch this clip
bush has a freudian slip and cannot hold in the laughter when he says we have a chance of winning in Iraq
you HAVE to watch that video
I hope the Democratic Leadership pushes back hard on this AL Qaeda talk. If it is Al Qaeda we are after then why not put the resources into Afghanistan/Pakistan and go after the Leadership, Mr. President? Why have you not gone after the Al Qaeda leadership in Pakistan, Mr. President? Why did you tell us we were invading Iraq because of WMD’s Mr. President? There need to be serious blow back on this Al Qaeda drum beating being fancied by Bush.
dakine01 @ 46
But when you think about what a sorry line-up of characters they have as a whole, doncha think it might be kinda fun to see ‘em go at each other?
in my neck of the woods, there are still many people who drive around with “Bush/Cheney” or “W” stickers on their cars. It’s like living in a Dawn of the Dead movie.
dakine01 @
60
Jane goes for a walk, CHS is in NY, and look what the mice get up to!
the Unitary preznit has been a bit ornery of late.
ladies and germs, I present the Unicornery preznitcy
P J Evans @ 25
Scary to contemplate exactly what the author/purchaser intends to communicate.
so, those of us that posted on Janes future post have been eEpu’d
Do you think the Israel would spend 400 billion $$$ to snuff out a terrorist network??????????
Texas Betsy @ 74
Honesty is the best policy.
Who actually writes these lies for Bush? Is is Rove? Who actually programs him each day? This guy actually made a fool of Gore in a debate and Kerry made a fool of himself, running against Bush. Bush has all this bitter energy but who actually controls him?
P J Evans @
25
Truth and honesty in politics?
Bob in HI
Fern @ 65
Had the Democrats attacked Bush and the Republicans for not catching him, you wouldn’t be offering these speculations. The same would be true if the Demcrats had nominated an anti-war candidate instead of Kerry, or if they hadn’t provided the Republicans a filibuster proof majority for the authorization to begin with.
Mandrake @ 70 asks:
Not really. Too much sadness knowing that there will be millions of the brain deads who will believe anything these (insert favorite pejorative here) say.
oddmommy @ 71
Fixed.
leftdcin72 @ 77
CORPORATE OIL………………
james joyce @ 76
I think they might use police work instead of all this crap.
Delusional.
Mandrake @
39
From Carla Marinucci @ the Chronicle
Can you say, “pandering”?
and
I’ll go with the over on that bet
perris @ 74
Yes, it genuinely exists in a parallel universe at this point (where, for all I know, people are still commenting on it).
Texas Betsy @ 83
Yes sir…………
I’m in the twilight zone. First I was on a thread by Jane, now I’m on a different one by Swopa. Weird.
leftdcin72 @ 78
Whoever is on the other end of that ear piece he has to wear when he speaks…
Sir????
“…a stable, unified and democratic Iraq…”
____
Right. I’ll just hold my fucking breath.
That may someday become a reality. But, it’ll be long after I’m gone, and I expect to be around another 30 years, given my genetics.
.
If it weren’t so sad I’d laugh.
This bunch has done gone round the bend.
Telling the neighbors of Iraq not to believe their own lying eyes.
Good Grief.
Who in the hell is actually swallowing this codswap?
cathy @ 89
You got kidnapped by the toobz.
Please people, Check out this link and comment!!!!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident
Texas Betsy @ 91
In the sense that Radar O’Reilly called everyone Sir. ;})
james joyce @ 83
No seriously on a day to day basis, who programs Bush and tells him what to say?
Swopa @ 87
Is it an Evil Parallel Universe?
[Sorry, couldn’t resist. ;) ]
Stupid, delusional, evil. Evil, delusional, stupid. Hard to pick.
The Al Qaeda talk jogged my memory that I promised cinnamonape a link on the weekend. The conv was:
And here is the source: from Ummat, a Pakistani newspaper. Translated into English (original in Urdu). Wiki notes there is some skepticism, says reporter didn’t meet OBL, just submitted written questions. So it’s he says he says vs he says he says.
But a lotof what’s in the article seems pretty close to what I have come to believe, eg, his take on what the US is up to, how and why the DEA is playing with the drug market, etc. Looks at least as trustworthy as anything I’ve read in the US media or US govt reports.
Texas Betsy @ 83
“counter-insurgency”, “aid of the civil power” and “police work” cannot work with almost none of the population on our side. Malaya took all the money needed, all the soldiers needed, and 16 years, to succeed, and the maximum proportion of the population they were fighting was 25% of the total. Only the Romans succeeded: they killed every Jew in Palestine in 70-77AD.
P J Evans @ 97
it’s an evil, EVIL parrallel universe, thus eEpu
Seems to me the last vestiges of the Gestapo may have infiltrated the NEOCONS………….
old gold @ 37
Exactly what I thought when I read Raven’s comment about Obama having Secret Service protection.
Is it true that Bin Ladin is not on the FBI most wanted?
Completely off topic, but they might want to expand the study to include our troops returning from the current conflict in Iraq to see if there is a DU exposure connection
By ED SUSMAN
UPI Correspondent
BOSTON, May 1 (UPI)
Something is happening to the brain structure of the 1991 Gulf War veterans — especially among those soldiers who complain of multiple symptoms arising from duty performed in routing Iraqi troops that had occupied Kuwait.
“We found that two regions of the brain had significant shrinking compared with other soldiers who have lower levels of symptoms,” Roberta White, chairman of environmental health at the Boston University School of Public Health, said at the 59th annual meeting of the American Academy of Neurology in Boston.
The two regions of the brain — the rostral anterior cingulate gyrus and the overall cortex — are involved in thinking and memory. The rostral anterior cingulate gyrus was 6 percent smaller and the overall cortex was 5 percent smaller in the brains of veterans who complained of at least five symptoms, when compared with veterans who returned from the Gulf with fewer than five complaints.
http://www.upi.com/Health_Busi…..ns_shrink/
james joyce @ 102
the neo cons have ALWAYS been fascists, they are coporatists and they want a robber baron economy
they are extremeists not concervatives even though the claim they are concervative
Torn and Frayed
Goopers: Scorned and ‘Fraid
croatoan @ 56
you made me cry reading that. It gets me thinking of all those people who died, all those people who suffer now and will suffer forever, all because of decisions made by
our governmentpersons heading our government.perris @ 107
They’re the ones trying to repeal all the laws passed during the New Deal and believe that Herbert Hoover was a great, mis-judged preznit.
Fern @ 65
And what will be the next excuse to invoke Patriot Act powers and possibly marshall law? How about “terrorists”, on our own soil, trying to blow up the Golden Gate bridge? Jeebus, reassure me that I’m being paranoid.
BobbyG @ 92
you know, this is another illustration of how f*****d up this whole mess is. IANAE on middle east history, but my understanding is that the “nation” of Iraq was an artificial construction (by the Brits?) in the first place, and that only a brutal dictator COULD keep it together.
It seems to me that if there IS a solution to the nightmare, it would be a Sunni/Shiite/Kurd partition…..I know that is opposed by the Bushites, not quite sure why, except for the fact that it might actually make sense.
What War on Terrorism?
The War on Terrorism ended the day we invaded Iraq.
have you guys seen him try to say we might win in Iraq?
check it ouy
he can’t keep a straight face
Loo Hoo @ 64
Unicorns are great transportation, but moose are better coatracks.
Brisingamen @ 112
that is exactly correct, however repphrased if you don’t mind;
“the president tricked us and ended the war on terrorism when he invaded Iraq”
jayackroyd @
31
We DID sort of invent him. We funded him and encouraged to attack the Russians!
cathy @ 89
Quick, call Ted Stevens, he can sort it all out.
punaise @ 108
And marching proudly behind the Commander Guy.
Elliott @
12
Mesquite had a similar response. I think this would give WAY too much intelligence to the Bush2 Iraq War Invasion machine, considering the lack of long term planning particularly as concerns postwar. Plus there was certainly NO cooperation between Al Qaeda and Hussein.
No seriously on a day to day basis, who programs Bush and tells him what to say?
Cheney and Rove.
Texas Betsy @ 105
I don’t know if he is now (should be on the FBI website) but I do recall that he was when Clinton was president.
Yeah but just try using a moose to attract a virgin.
punaise @ 73
That’s corny, punaise.
spurious @ 111
On the bright side, the Rightwinger Terrorists prefer to use blowtorches for blowing things up.
Texas Betsy @ 105
I just looked and he’s there.
oddmommy @ 121
WOW!!!
if this is true it would make a GREAT graphic at the top of a post at firedog lake, no?
picture;
fbi most wanted with the date, and president, highlighting bin laden
contrast that with the most wanted today, date and stamped across;
BIN LADEN NOT ON THIS PREISDENT’S LIST
that would be one effective add
oddmommy @ 112
“Iraqi Nationalism” I wonder what kind of nationalism the iraqis would show if the Iraqi National Men’s Soccer team played the US national mens Soccer team?
Religion and ethnicity would be obliterated by Iraqi Flags and Nationalism for sure………..
oddmommy @ 111
That’s right, under the Sykes-Picot Agreement, TE Lawrence’s map for a Shi’astan, Sunnistan and Kurdistan was igonred and this idiocy set up.
Sir Arnold Wilson, Controller of Iraq wrote a paper in 1926? 27? pointing out Iraq could not work, probably ever, because Sunni, Shi’a and Kurd had been at each others’ throats forever and would continue to do so for the forseeable future. Since no one reads history any more, “They” did not know any of this. Only a strong bully can keep the three more or less quiet…. and that means a dictator.
oddmommy @ 122
Bin Laden is listed as the “Most Wanted Terrorist” on the FBI site.
spurious @ 110
I’m hoping that there are enough honest grunts in homeland security, police forces, etc. that they can’t spring a terrorist attack here at home. And my guess is that the chimpster has so alienated the armed forces that they wouldn’t’ support martial law here at home. fingers crossed … cause I’m sure they;ve thought of it.
Badwater @ 129
spoiled my fun
Loo Hoo @
124
so…you’re still upset about that Late Nite UK WC thing, huh? :~)
HotFlash @ 115
The problem with moose is that they attract annoying flying squirrels.
perris @ 116
He didn’t trick all of us. But he sure as hell invaded.
Hugh @ 134
and moose and squirrel attracts boris and natasha
punaise @ 73
Things have really gotten bad when I’m driven to potty humor but I’ve come to think of him as this as the urinary presidency. Their theory is to piss all over the country. (and everyone else’s too.)
Dee @ 90
Harlan McCraney
Here’s another little gem that might fall out once the e-mails are found:
Are Rove’s Missing Emails the Smoking Guns of the Stolen 2004 Election?
Boy, what a two-fer-one that would be!
Was this visit by the Queen planned?? I think something is coming down tomorrow night.
maunga @ 129
thank you.
Now, can anyone tell me why Bush and his “brains” are against partition? I’m sure it’s going to make me sick, but at least I haven’t eaten recently.
The Bush Goal Timeline
2003: Grateful Free Iraq which will give our soldiers b10wjobs and candy when they arrive in Baghdad.
2004: Democratic Free Iraq which will be run by handpicked Iraqis chosen by the USA
2005: Democratic Iraq who will drive away the enemy with purple fingers
2006: Stable Iraq which will not turn on the USA
2007: A livable level of violence.
2008: Less then 100 US troops killed a month
2009: Stop shooting at us already!
maunga @
129
Of course, there was the delightful experience of watching Tweety the other night when he proclaimed that prior to the invasion he had NO idea that the Shi’a and Sunni hated each other.
I wonder, did he get his degree at Regent U to be so uninformed?
MSNBC.com – WH to veto Hate Crimes bill
Elliott @ 136
And hats and rabbits
Hugh @ 134
And then Boris and Natasha show up, and everything goes …
brendan @ 80
And WWE requires a good guy and a bad guy, too. The Dems get to play good enough to attract progressive types, but gosh, they just can’t seem to get elected. Everybody knows nice guys finish last. News flash: The same people who own the R’s own the Dems, or at least the ones who lead. Grassroots, primary their sorry asses out and get in real Dems, progressive ones.
kdh22 @ 144
what about magic bags?
never mind, that’s a cat not a squirrel
Solai @ 140
Yeah, she’s going to the Derby Saturday. They announced the visit at least six months or so ago.
Solai @ 140
Yes — the celebration of Jamestown’s 400th anniversary has been has been planned for 3-5 years now. Since it was the first permanent English settlement, an invitation to the Queen would have been inevitable.
Elliott @ 136
No, please, not Boris and Natasha!
Jane Hamsher @
18
Zed!!
Keep the Idiot in Chief away from the Queen!
Just what we need, another international incident from that clodhopper jackass.
Brisingamen @ 150
Perhaps you can repeal the declaration of independance and get her stay on!!
JF @ 144
you gotta be kidding me!
STTP in Ohio @ 139
if it really is as bad as it seems, that BushCo is so totally and entirely and completely corrupt; what happens now that their cards are falling down? How will they react? Strike Iran? Be too preoocupied to strike Iran? Do they accept it’s over with resignation and resignations? Do we have to drag them out of the White House one by one? Do they run and hide Paraguay Way?
How bad will they make it before they go? What if they won’t go, even in January 2009?
JF @ 144
Why does George Bush hate Americans?
OT:
“Norway is … pulling investments out of Wal-Mart and other big companies like Boeing and Lockheed Martin for what it claims are ethical failings.
Norway has amassed a fortune in excess of $300 billion over the last decade, thanks to its profits from oil exports. Yet few countries are more ambivalent about their vast wealth than this modest, socially-conscious society of less than five million people.
So rather than managing their gigantic nest egg simply for the best returns, the reluctant billionaires of Norway are using the money to advance an ambitious ethical code they established in 2004 for their oil reserve, known as the Government Pension Fund.”
linky
I spent some time early this century working in Norway and seriously thought about moving there — real interesting and socially conscious place. (However, I did not see anyone toting flamethrowers in the streets … :-)
gman @ 49
Not bad, but I think this would be even better. Invite Pace up to the Hill, and ask him how much it would cost to run an orderly withdrawal of all American forces in Iraq in 60 days. Whatever his answer is, appropriate exactly that much money, and require that it be spent in 60 days.
spurious @
111
Fern @ 65
jayackroyd @ 31
Makes you wonder if he ever planned to get Osama at all.
I have wondered about this myself. Bin Laden definitely put him over the top in 04.
Fearmongering requires a bogeyman.
If he hadn’t existed they would have had to invent him.
And what will be the next excuse to invoke Patriot Act powers and possibly marshall law? How about “terrorists”, on our own soil, trying to blow up the Golden Gate bridge? Jeebus, reassure me that I’m being paranoid.
Rove’s main job since last November is planning the End Game– only that’s probably not the way he is framing it. I can’t pretend to know all of what lies in that evil mind, but I’ll bet it includes some of the following:
1. Gonzo stays in office as long as possible. He’s absolutely essential to the cover-up of Rove’s control of the entire system of justice. If Gonzo is removed from office, they’ll name one of the current high-ranking DOJ persons as “acting” AG and then stonewall the process of finding a replacement as long as possible. Someone might check into the fate of Nixon’s AG, John Mitchell, BTW.
2. Thanks to some sneaky midnite insert last year, Pres. Bush has the authority to declare martial (!) law, and move National Guard forces from state to state without their governor’s permission. Look for something to happen (Wag the Dog) in Sept-Oct of 2008. He will be looking for an excuse to “postpone” the elections. If he does this, however, Republicans up for re-election will face a gut check.
Rove probably has a lot more devious schemes up his sleeves. But these are some that I worry about.
Bob in HI
punaise @ 133
Huh? No requerdo.
IMPEACHMENT NOW!!!!!!
OldCoastie @ 155
Don’t you know them thar gays are baaaad! They’ll get nothin from Chimpy. Nothin’ Nothin’ I wanna scream!
mc @ 157
Why does he only veto bills that have a majority support? Is it his way of saying “I don’t watch the polls?” In other word, FU America.
HotFlash @ 151
yes, that Boris and Natasha
Elliott @ 55
Hi Elliott, had to step away and now I’m back to give you a belated pat on the back and a hug. Good on ya, firedoggy.
JF @ 164
George Bush is pro-death for gay people.
Loo Hoo @ 161
some tangential reference to toilets in England, I said “Who’s Loo?”, you said my name would be mud if you had to change yours again.
all in jesting, of course.
JF @
164
mc @ 157
JF @ 144
MSNBC.com – WH to veto Hate Crimes bill
Why does George Bush hate Americans?
Why does he only veto bills that have a majority support? Is it his way of saying “I don’t watch the polls?” In other word, FU America.
he has to play to the 28% kool-aid drinkers
lee5 @ 158
this is great news!
leftdcin72 @ 78
Dee @ 90
john in sacramento @38
or Johannes Schluter
Bob Schacht, Add to this that Blackwater is ready to act w/o any ethical/legal restrictions.
brendan @79
Right that! Hey, I did my part in ‘04 towards that end. But I was just ignored or laughed at (from both sides). I still want my effing apology from those people.
;)
dakine01 @ 168
it is all he has after all, he better hang on to at least them
Elliott @
156
Good questions.
While I often state “It’s over”, the way they will leave office is open to much debate (and sleepless nights).
Just a thought, if Bubba had not been spending so much time defending himself from the politically motivated impeachment by the Repubs about lying under oath and DNA on dresses he could have spent more time on Al Qaeda.
Looking back, if Bill could be impeached in the house for his follies, what of Bush and Cheney????? Degrees of severity!!! Who has done more damage. IMPEACHMENT AND CONVICTION OF BUSH/CHENEY NOW!!!!!!!!!!
“prior to the invasion he had NO idea”
Who said that on Tweety?
HotFlash @ 126
Interesting that the crimes he’s wanted for don’t include the 9/11 attack on the WTC.
do-si-do @ 166
Hi back! “waves“
Solai @ 171
now that’s actually an interesting twist …
practice deploying in NOLA, get ready for the big show in 08. geez … scary …
perris @ 113
Really weird affect.
Arkansas has four US Congressmen, three are Dems and one theo-nut. Anyway two Dems voted for hate along with the theo-nut.. Mike Ross and Marrion Barry.
It’s ok to terrorize gay people, I guess.
for shame
james joyce @ 176
Don’t forget, the idiots who COMPLAINED because Bubba paid attention to bin Laden and accused him of using al Qaeda as a distraction from Monica I. Of course, Bubba could actually do more than one thing at a time, unlike the current idiot in charge.
mo2 @ 177
Tweety.
Owning a unicorn???!!!
you made my afternoon. thanks
lee5 @ 131
But there’s always Blackwater.
Solai @ 172
Exactly! And they will be mixed in with NatGuard troops. BTW, anybody know what the desertion rates are? I read some humonguous number a while back. IIRC the article said some turned up in Canada and Sweden, but that most had ‘disappeared’. I didn’t think at the time that they might be defecting to Blackwater, but now I wonder.
USAMA BIN LADEN IS WANTED IN CONNECTION WITH THE AUGUST 7, 1998, BOMBINGS OF THE UNITED STATES EMBASSIES IN DAR ES SALAAM, TANZANIA, AND NAIROBI, KENYA. THESE ATTACKS KILLED OVER 200 PEOPLE. IN ADDITION, BIN LADEN IS A SUSPECT IN OTHER TERRORIST ATTACKS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.
The FBI won’t say that they think Usama bin Laden was responsible for 9-11-2001. Very interesting. Could it be because of evidence to the contrary?
Oddmommy@112
Apparently, partition would be worse because then Turkey would flow into Kurdish areas and wipe them out, Iran would invade and take over Shiite areas and that might bring in Saudi, etc., so partition would likely bring the whole area into warfare.
Jwoods @ 185
Well, one owns a unicorn in the same sense that one owns a cat.
HotFlash @ 187
in that vein:
dakine01 @ 183
Remember Clinton appointed Tenet at CIA, Louis Freeh at FBI and Sandy Berger at NSC. This is not the “A” team. Clinton will tell you he could not do better. But Hillary Clinton knew damn well that Tenet was ridiculous and could not be relied upon when she voted for the Iraq War. Hillary Clinton defends her vote based on what she “knew” then. This is a fraud. The issue is what Hillary believed when she voted for the war and she had to believe that Tenet was a complete farce.
HotFlash @ 190
We own the cats? You might want to interview my clowder — I’m sure they think they own me.
james joyce @ 48
I recall that the Secret Service has sent out agents pulling teenage girls from school for posting pictures of unicorns (speaking of which) attacking Bush.
I wonder if the Secret Service and DOJ has even bothered to consider the hundreds of thousands of similar threats to Democrats and progressives as equally “viable threats”.
Betcha not a chance!
spurious @ 178
I’m not sure if he was ever indicted on 9/11. But of course, the current administration goes by a different set of rules on law enforcement these days…
punaise, I know. We have had several in our neighbourhood but under Bush’s buddy Harper they are mostly getting shipped back.
Brisingamen @ 193
HotFlash @ 190
Jwoods @ 185
Owning a unicorn???!!!
you made my afternoon. thanks
Well, one owns a unicorn in the same sense that one owns a cat.
We own the cats? You might want to interview my clowder — I’m sure they think they own me.
My point exactly ;)
leftdcin72 @ 192 says:
Tenet and Freeh were nominated because they could be confirmed by a Republic congress and no other reason.
lee5 @
158
Don’t have time today to restart the “US should get into the oil refining business” discussion we had here a few days ago, but Norway’s success as noted above should be our model as the inevitable development of oil shale on US land takes place.
We could pay for universal health care in the US if we kept the money vs. letting Darth and his oil patch buddies get to it first.
dakine01 @ 198
Tenet and Freeh were nominated because they could be confirmed by a Republic congress and no other reason.
Click! Another piece of the puzzle falls into place.
mo2 @ 188
or, it could just be that they’re so busy listening to phone calls
they haven’t updated their website in 8 years. Oooops…
Guy like Bush might just decide America don’t need no estinking elections!
Brisingamen @ 193 says:
At best the cats tolerate us as easy targets for food and head rubs.
HotFlash @ 196
Hasn’t Parliament gotten around to Vote of No Confidencing Harper out yet? Or are they just laying groundwork? They’ve told him to stuff it more than once on other issues, if i remember.
Re Osama Bin Laden and the FBI: if you click on his name you’ll see the crimes he is wanted for. 9/11 is not one of them. Makes one wonder….
cynic @ 202
Not to make myself more of a target but if that decision is made, it will make the ’60s look like the fifties. The revolution would just have been delayed a few decades is all.
spurious @ 186
This is why we have a second amendment!!!!
Come to my neck of the woods blackwater or whoever. Remember those dirty uneducated members of the Continental Army.
leftdcin72 @ 78
I suggest that you actually go back and read the transcripts of those debates. Gore and Kerry were reasonable and intelligent and far-seeing….Bush simply spewed out lies, false promises (that he would use the surplus to save Social Security, return 25% to “the hardest working Americans” and use 25% for (ahem) SPECIAL PROJECTS), and slogans.
Bring morality back to the White House? The false lie that Gore ever claimed that he “invented” the internet (how many years did THAT meme get spread by the nutcases on the “internets”), etc.
Peeking out from under the covers; are they still in power? Sigh.
aliasofwestgate @ 203
Wait til this whole handing-prisoners-over-to-Afghanis-to-be-tortured comes to fruition.
jayackroyd @
31
When they wanted to rev up a war in the past they used the Soviet threat and briefly they used the China threat and then they began to run out of really big serious threats, so they invented the Axis of Evil and Al Qaeda. Now they just repeat whichever happens to be useful, so they can continue WAR FOREVER.
Nice folks, eh?
I still wonder when Saddam went from friend to enemy and why there isn’t clear-cut evidence of how 9/11 happened (no steel buildings like those ever collapsed in a fire before or since).
It makes me think we oughta cut the Defense budget by about two-thirds. They didn’t find any way with the current forces to defend us on 9/11 anyway.
dakine01 @ 198
Tenet and Freeh were nominated because they could be confirmed by a Republic congress and no other reason.
Accepting your view, Hillary knew Tenet was a joke and yet she claimed that she relied on the NIE provided by him. She had the opportunity to show real courage in challenging Tenet and she didn’t. Tenet was the guy who claimed that the Chinese Embassy was bombed in Belgrade by mistake because the CIA screwed up using an out of date tourist street map. The Clintons are too much like Tenet. That is one of the problems we face.
Tweety: “at least students of the region knew—I did not know personally—that there was a long-standing dispute between the Shia and the Sunni portions of Islam, and that that‘s been going on for 1,300 years…So if you put it all together, Paul, everything was predictable, except the American people were not prepared for this.”
Then Tweety says that torture is the only way to get information from the occupied and the guest says no, the way to get truthful information is “to cultivate that organic intelligence, that human intelligence from within the community.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18438589/
Once Tweety said he had no knowledge one of the world’s four top religions, he should have realized that his “opinion” was worthless. But no, he just kept talking like a stupid idiot!
Remember Clinton appointed Tenet at CIA, Louis
Scott Ritter had an article up on Raw a while back, not sure if it is still there but it explains this issue very nicely. HRC has no excuse. Even if she were to apologize it would ring hollow to me.
MarkH @ 211
Orwell would have been both proud and appalled at his prescience.
It seems to me that if there IS a solution to the nightmare, it would be a Sunni/Shiite/Kurd partition…..I know that is opposed by the Bushites, not quite sure why, except for the fact that it might actually make sense.
That is assuming that the goal is peace or stability. It is not. Bushies have box of index cards full of excuses to stay, only one real reason (oil), and none to leave.
OT–Haven’t gotten caught up today on all the threads. Has this been mentioned?
Whihte Houe Threatens to Veto Hate Crimes Law
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18473074/
james joyce @ 176
I blame the Republicans for distracting the country back then, as they selfishly grabbed for more power, thus leaving us vulnerable to the attack that came.
And I worry that dealing with this very real problem from BushCo, whether it goes to impeachment or not, again leaves us vulnerable to an attack that is surely planned. SO I’m OK if we don’t go all the way to impeachment, not that he and others don’t deserve it: Bush, Cheney, Alberto.
And I also know that the principals from Iran/Contra are woven throughout today’s troubles, excaberating the damage to our Constitution, the damage to our rights. They should have been jailed back then, and certainly never allowed back in to the halls of our government. I’m just so all conflicted about what is the best way to stop the ever worsening damage they are doing, and bring them to justice.
raven @ 33
Scary! I remember all too well when John Kennedy, Robert Kennedy, and Martin Luther King were killed, also not forgetting Ronald Reagan who was shot and survived.
Hopefully Obama and the Secret Service is taking this seriously.
dakine01 @ 203
At best the cats tolerate us as easy targets for food and head rubs.
They also think we’re saps.
Why?
Because if you and your cats’ sizes were reversed, you wouldn’t last 15 minutes.
HotFlash @ 190
clearly you “own” a cat or two.
Sixty Something @ 219
It is about time. I saw him speak in Austin, and he was walking around on a ramp in the middle of 22,000 people, and that scared me then.
FYI, wedge into an old new thread
pb @ 217
Are Dems protected by this bill?
This is almost as ironic as W declaring Law Day this week.
aliasofwestgate @ 204
The opposition parties won’t call him out until they are sure they can win. So, we just sit. Meanwhile, it looks like Canada the Good has been “>torturing, too. Maybe this will be enough to do it.
cinnamonape @ 208
cinnamonape, did you see the link I left for you re Bin Laden at 100
dakine01 @ 198
Tenet and Freeh were nominated because they could be confirmed by a Republic congress and no other reason.
Funny that Clinton didn’t use George’s (Rove’s) method of putting in someone the Republicans considered ideologically anathema ~like Noam Chomsky or Hillary~ by using an interim appointment while they were out on one of their long holidays!
Oh, and Jane’s back upstairs.
Where is your copy of the Constitution?
George Washington blog has some interesting explanations about that. There is a ton of stuff about 9-11 on there. I think there is a link at HuffPo. It’s located in a box on the right edge.
STTP in Ohio @ 220 says:
Why?
Because if you and your cats’ sizes were reversed, you wouldn’t last 15 minutes.
My best friend’s ex worked at a “big cat” refuge in Florida a few years ago. I was visiting and we went over for his daughter’s b’day. The ex still had one cage of tigers to feed and I walked out with her. She went to the back of the cage and the two females went along. The male stayed up front pacing, and never took his eyes off me as I was an unknown intruder. I finally walked to the back so he would follow and he decided then to go ahead and eat.
It was fascinating to see all the traits of my in house feline being replicated by tigers, leopards, panthers and other exotic felines, Knowing that the games I play with my companion would send me to the morgue if it were one of the big fellas.
Eureka Springs @ 182
Isn’t yours the theo-nut?
do-si-do @ 216
That is assuming that the goal is peace or stability. It is not. Bushies have box of index cards full of excuses to stay, only one real reason (oil), and none to leave.
Ditto
dakine01 @ 231
My best friend’s ex worked at a “big cat” refuge in Florida a few years ago. I was visiting and we went over for his daughter’s b’day. The ex still had one cage of tigers to feed and I walked out with her. She went to the back of the cage and the two females went along. The male stayed up front pacing, and never took his eyes off me as I was an unknown intruder. I finally walked to the back so he would follow and he decided then to go ahead and eat.
It was fascinating to see all the traits of my in house feline being replicated by tigers, leopards, panthers and other exotic felines, Knowing that the games I play with my companion would send me to the morgue if it were one of the big fellas.
[my bold]
even purring, in some
Steve @ 232
yes indeed.
.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleiwitz_incident
lokijohn @ 205
It’s the new policy of this Administration NOT TO consider these individuals as Criminals. Those indictments were issued by Fitz, as part of the Nairobi/Dar Es investigation.
The Bushies want these things as far away from the courts as possible. If they actually indicted anyone involved in the 9/11 incidents these individualssuddenly become subject to legal protections rather than being “enemy combatants”.
But, as well, indictment would mean having to submit the evidence to public scrutiny…and this is something that the Bushies don’t want to do…as it may show where they were utterly incompetant or even compliant in allowing actions to occur that they could have stopped.
Bob Schacht @ 160
Can’t congress change this quickly, as they did the bit about appointing USAs without senate approval?
spurious @
111
Notice it was NYC, Washington DC and New Orleans — all Democratic stronghold cities — which were attacked or allowed to collapse. Why woouldn’t the next city to experience a ‘terrorist’ attack be Boston, Chicago, San Francisco, Oakland or Philadelphia?
See, terrists hate Democrats! Get it.
running thru the airport, I did hear Hillary on the TV saying it was time to end the war now. Just a snippet, but the most definite thing I’ve heard her say … given her triangulation ways, that really tells you where slightly right of center is currently
Bin Ladin is NOT wanted for Sept. 11
If there be no greater sacrifice than to lay down one’s life in defense of freedom so others may live; then it stands that the intentional manipulation of “reason” and the ‘systematic instillation; of “falsehoods,” leading to war triggering unwarranted death and destruction constitutes a high crime.
Ockham’s razor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam’s_Razor
if all these people were to shut up when they didn’t know what the f**k they were talking about, the silence would be deafening.
Eureka Springs @ 182
The white house “also noted that the bill leaves other classes, such as the elderly, the military and police officers, without similar special status.” Yes, hate crimes against these groups are a real problem! According to Molly Ivins (in Shrub), Bush opposed a hate crime bill while governor of Texas for the same reason–inclusion of gender and sexual preference.
oddmommy @
112
Before modern Iraq, the area was held as part of the Ottoman Empire, which made the mistake of getting mixed up in WW-I, after which it was defeated and dismembered. The British occupied Iraq for a while (British Mandate period), during which they discovered, as we are discovering now, that they could not govern it. So, being a monarchy and all, they arranged to turn the country over to an Arab monarchy, the “Hashemites,” in 1932. But then at the beginning of WW-II, the British re-invaded the country to keep it out of Hitler’s hands, relinquishing control to the Hashemites in 1947. This British cllent lasted until 1958, when it was replaced by a coup d’etat.
So let’s review the bidding: The British tried to govern Iraq twice, unsuccessfully. Twice, they tried turning the government of Iraq over to a friendly client (the Hashemites), who were able to last about 10 years each time before being replaced.
The people over in Colin Powell’s state department knew all this, and wrote ponderous volumes on what would be necessary if we invaded Iraq and achieved regime change. The Pentagon apparently dumped the State Department’s analysis and planning, claiming that we wouldn’t need it. That’s why the U.S. occupation has gone so badly ever since, as we clumsily tried to re-invent the British wheel.
The Iraq occupation is not redeemable. It is kaput. They never had a decent plan to succeed, and now things have gone past reclamation. Arrogance hubris = disaster.
Iraq can be a democracy. But this was not the way to do it.
Bob in HI
maunga @ 129
Good points all, except for the “only” in the last sentence, IMHO. It is true more or less that Sultans, kings and dictators are the only form of leadership that has worked in Iraq, but it is not necessarily their destiny. But THEY must want it, and take their own path to it.
Bob in HI
HotFlash @ 226
cinnamonape @ 208
leftdcin72 @ 78
Who actually writes these lies for Bush? Is is Rove? Who actually programs him each day? This guy actually made a fool of Gore in a debate and Kerry made a fool of himself, running against Bush. Bush has all this bitter energy but who actually controls him?
I suggest that you actually go back and read the transcripts of those debates. Gore and Kerry were reasonable and intelligent and far-seeing….Bush simply spewed out lies, false promises (that he would use the surplus to save Social Security, return 25% to “the hardest working Americans” and use 25% for (ahem) SPECIAL PROJECTS), and slogans.
Bring morality back to the White House? The false lie that Gore ever claimed that he “invented” the internet (how many years did THAT meme get spread by the nutcases on the “internets”), etc.
cinnamonape, did you see the link I left for you re Bin Laden at 100
Yeah. Not very convincing, I’d say. I do recall several videos in which OBL and Al Zawahiri have both stated that those involved were Al Qaida people. and had been blessed by Bin Laden beforehand.
I mentioned another video in which OBL was visited by the legless Imam from Saudi Arabia who recalled how he had been messaged to watch the TV on the night of the attacks by OBL…the imam claimed that they were cheering and dancing as if their team had scored a goal in football! Then he talked about how he recalled dreaming of this before it happened. Bin Laden never denied his involvement in that video, and merely stated that these things were the beginnings of the great conflict with the West and supporters of the Zionists.
Of course, one can argue that these videos are all fakes…that the CIA has actors that look like bin Laden, Zawahiri, the legless Imam (who has returned and confessed to the authenticity of the video…of course maybe HE is an imposter, as well). That the distinctive Arabic of SE Saudi Arabia was learned by these imposters.
And why would the US request SPADA missiles to be placed around the G8 Summit that July in Genoa because of threats to US “interests” from an alleged Al Qaida hijacking “crash” threat? Wouldn’t it seem more likely that they would have “ignored” the Genoa threat (since it was nonexistant)? Condi knew about this threat…and it implies that she is incompetant and didn’t act on the threats in the US. Why would she release such information?
And we know that even during the Clinton era that the threats made by al Qaida to try and hijack and crash planes in suicide attacks were tangible. Recall the Gore Hearings on Aircraft Security that took seriously a terrorist controlling an aircraft and deliberately crashing it. Al, sorts of steps were suggested to prevent that, as well as to reduce the risk of weapons and explosives, but were squelched by airline industry lobbyists and the Republican party.
Have to say that I seriously doubt the veracity of some article in a Pakistani paper that has been translated into English and passed on third or fourth hand. I have acquaintances (not here, but in SE Asia) that have said that bin Laden could not have done this simply because “he is a Muslim”…as if those car bombings that occur everyday in Iraq are not being done by “Muslims”? [Perhaps not by “good, devout Muslims” but they seem to think that anyone that professes Islam can’t get it wrong…just as many evangelicals seem to think that someone who professes to be a Christian could “NEVER” do anything Wrong!]
Yet at the same time they also said that the attacks were justified because of Israeli and American attacks on Muslims. Go figure.
My take on this is that the Bushies are utter ideologues. They will do anything for power and ideology…yet are really incompetant when it comes to successfully untertaking any real task that requires actual competance.
That’s why I seriously doubt that they would have been capable of pulling of the sort of actions that the extreme 9/11 conspiracy theorists profess. Conspiracies that would have required hundreds of co-conspirators to keep silent, are, in my opinion, simply not on the books.
But if there were already a group wanting to attack the US, and those in power wanted to “allow” that act to occur…they could do so by simply NOT ACTING with adequate speed and diligence. IMHO there is substantial evidence of culpability on that front.
And it may be that the Bushies wanted enough of an attack to allow Bush to become “the War President”, introduce the Patriot Act, and even direct things toward Iraq. But the scale of the attack, and the media attention, actually may have impeded that.
Zig freed by Mod
Elliott @ 229
I have a couplke of printed copies and use versions on the net (easily searchable) as well. I am always finding something new and interesting in them. Pity that Congress has surrendered much of their responsibilities mandated by that document…and have allowed even further erosion under this regime.
I’m wondering if they will acquiesce further, allowing Bush to veto parts of bills by Presidential Signing Statements, pulling money for the War in Iraq from other Departments, and by allowing him to ignore the specific terms of the Iraq Military Force Authorization of 2002 (which was already a major retreat on Congresses role in declaring war).
Elliott @ 234
[my bold]
even purring, in some
I think only pumas purr…other Big Cats don’t.
oddmommy @ 141
Biden is betting on the partition plan, too.
The problem is that it leaves the Sunni without any oil, and therefore basically no source of income. They’ll never agree to it. They will fight the Kurds for the oil in the Erbil area, where there is a mixed population, and they’ll fight the Shi’a for some of the desert oilfields in the south.
Another reason it won’t work is that it would leave the Kurds with their own country in the North, which Turkey won’t allow because of their own Kurdish minority, and Iran won’t like because of their Kurdish minority. The breakup of the Ottoman Empire after WW-II trisected the Kurds into 3 more or less equal segments, split among Turkey, Iraq and Iran. So the Turkish problem would have to be dealt with.
One of the current plans is for tripartition in a federal structure that guarantees the Sunni a portion of the oil revenue, but autonomy in everything else. This will keep Turkey quiet because northern Iraq won’t be an independent Kurdish country.
Sounds complicated? Welcome to the Middle East!!!
Bob in HI
Solai @
172
Yeah, that’s part of my “martial law” scenario.
Scary.
Bob in HI
TheOtherWA @
36
Very apropos….Wasn’t this Mussolini’s claim to fame?
James Joyce @236 What are you saying, a parallel to 9/11 or something else? And do I recall that Bush studied history? I have always suspected he read things other than the Bible, maybe some history books caught his imagination?
spurious @ 238
Sure and Bush would attach a signing statement mooting Congress’s actions which Westlaw would enter into its books making the Chimp’s signing statement part of the legislative history of the act so that Federalist Society judges can cite the statement in decisions which will then be used to further erode our rights and the Constitution.
Those pesky little signing statements aren’t going away any time soon; they’ll be around for years and years and years like depleted uranium right here in our own legal books.
Bob Schacht @ 251
Knowing this is EPU’ed, saying it any way. Is there anyone other than myself thinking that Blackwater, aka guns for hire, would not be subject to the highest bidder? The thought is scary to say the least.
Makes you wonder if the Bushies haven’t created a monster that will be hard to put back in the box.
cinnamonape @ 237
Every terrorist action prior to this was considered a crime.
This action against the WTC and the Pentagon was also a crime, but the crime scene was never established and the Bushies and their PNAC friends wanted an excuse for a war…Chimpie needed to be a “war president.”
As a former criminal investigator I was furious watching the evidence of the crime being carted away from the WTC while rescue workers were forced to go in and out of that hole until all the gold from the Zurich bank was removed NOT until all the remains had been found. So many people contaminated that scene it was ridiculous. Robert DeFuckinNiro gets a walk through? WTF??
Once the gold was retrieved the “rescue” effort was called off.
And the great crusade was begun.
MoveOn is finally polling on impeachment!
They ask “Should Congress should impeach George W. Bush?”
Take the poll here: http://pol.moveon.org/bushsurv…..ZW&t=1
Nanz @ 253
Events at Gleiwitz
“Much of what is known about the Gleiwitz incident comes from the sworn affidavit of Alfred Naujocks at the Nuremberg Trials. According to his testimony, the incident was organised by Naujocks under orders from Reinhard Heydrich and Heinrich M�ller, the chief of the Gestapo. This provocation was one of several actions in Operation Himmler, a Nazi Germany project to create the appearance of Polish aggression against Germany, which would be used to justify the subsequent invasion of Poland.”
Nazi’s invasion of Poland was a preemptive military invasion, in they eye’s of the German people. “Predicated on falsehoods”
911 inside job or not, doesn’t matter. Bush et als tied al-qeada to Iraq and Saddam in addition to the threat of a Mushroom cloud over a Major US City, probably the same logic used by the Nazi’s, to protect Germany from the terrorist in Poland! Yeh right…..
Ask the half a million dead Iraqi’s if there is a difference……… and the 400 billion dollars……
BTW, Terrorist are for real, and the American people are not acting like Nazi’s and our leaders are not Nazi’s. They have borrowed the techniques of the dysfunctional……… That is the commonality I see………
A military invasion / occupation rationalized and sold to America on insufficient and fabricated evidence. And we were warned, by Colin Powell. Powell’s actions speak louder than any words……….
HE KNOWS IT WAS A LIE!!!!!!!!!!
VIVA “EXECUTIVE OIL”
The Power of Nightmares…………………….