I have no idea of the veracity (or lack thereof) of the Washington Post's sourcing on the "Democrats Back Down on Iraq Timetable" story. Their source(s) may be perfectly solid. But to say that the Washington Post has no agenda with regard to the war is like saying the fox has no agenda when guarding the henhouse. For years, reporters like Steno Sue Schmidt have been rewarded with front page placement and choice story assignments for promulgating utter bullshit like the Whitewater and Jessica Lynch stories that flatter the Administration and make Democrats look bad. It is well within reason to suspect that the Post, like the Washington Times, have an agenda in portraying Democrats as weak, divided and in dissaray, and that there are many incentives offered to reporters willing to do just that.
In fact, when it comes to the supplemental bill the wedge that is successfully being driven — and under reported — is between George Bush and the members of his own party, who feel they need to run for cover.
Republicans like Olympia Snowe:
A likely sticking point is whether to include consequences if the Iraqi government fails to meet the benchmarks. Democrats, and some Republicans such as Senator Olympia Snowe of Maine, insist that there be penalties for falling short, such as a loss of U.S. financial support or the withdrawal of some coalition forces.
Like George Voinovich:
Sen. George Voinovich, R-Ohio, a member of the Foreign Relations Committee, is even less delicate as he acknowledges that the President has no choice but to compromise with congressional Democrats and accept conditions under which the war can continue. At a minimum, the Iraqi government — or what passes for one — must reduce the sectarian anarchy and bloodshed that make the U.S. military presence in that country so dangerous.
"That's how it's done," explains Mr. Voinovich. "Everybody holds their nose and maybe a couple of times vomits, but you get it done.
Like Susan Collins:
"Obviously, the president would prefer a straight funding bill with no benchmarks, no conditions, no reports," said Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine). "Many of us, on both sides of the aisle, don't see that as viable."
Now I perfectly well expect them all do do the Arlen Specter two-step and try to use such language as cover with their constituents even as they fold and back Bush, but a wedge is a wedge and it continues to be hammered by groups like Americans United for Change, who produced the above ad and will continue to make Republican candidates running for office in 2008 pay a price for their support of Fearless Leader. It's a story that has Republicans tearing their hair out as they fight for their political lives, and yet "Democrats in Disaray" — even as they act on the will of the majority of the American people — curiously continues to dominate the headlines.
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TeH zEd
Would someone tell me please, why we went to war with Iraq?
Hi Jane how are you feeling today??
It was also reported a week or two back that journalists were invited to the White House for the specific purpose of hammering on them to report the “Democrats in disarray” message.
Commander Guy Here.
Just stay the success-is-not-no-violence course. That’s an order.
TPM has denials of the WaPo article from Pelosi’s office here.
Fairfax @ 1
(stands up)
Profits.
(sits back down)
lolo @
3
Very good. It’s a beautiful day. Gonna go for a walk with the poodles.
This is a phenomenon that I can’t understand. And I am very surprised that more “Armstrong Williams” episodes are not unearthed. What motivates these “reporters” to do this?
It has to be loads of secret cash……
Jane Hamsher @ 7
Good girl don’t forget to smell the roses.
lolo @ 10
Not many roses out, but lots of forsythia, tulips and jonquils.
It could still make a difference to phone our representatives and Pelosi and Hoyer and just for fun the WhiteHouse. Toll free number for the capitol is 800-828-0498. My rep, Donald Manzullo, walks lockstep with the Bush repubs, but I contact him anyway.
Hoyer’s office was very courteous, probably got lots of grief for being rude to callers yesterday. They seemed to take note of the fact that we would work hard to defeat him in 2008, if he didn’t represent our wishes.
The press wants to believe that dubya’s veto is all it takes to make the Dems back down and play right – hope there is more backbone in our party on the Hill.
in re: statement in the ad about The Chimp’s inability to face reality: Where the Chimpenfuhrer is involved and concerned, we can only surmise that reality is an unreal concept.
Fairfax @ 2
Because the Idiot-in-Chief wanted to prove he had a bigger you-know-what than his sire…
Fairfax @
2
What Swopa said, but mainly because IsraelPNAC/the neocons wanted it. See “A Clean Break” – http://www.iasps.org/strat1.htm
Fact is the Demo bill appears to have been a sellout from the start: Tomgram: Scahill, A Democratic Sell-out on Bush’s Mercenaries
When is a withdrawal not a withdrawal? When you stay in. (The democrats notion of withdrawal looks kind of like being a little bit pregnant, when withdrawal is claimed but not in fact accomplished in any meaningful sense. Mixed metaphor, sorry…)
So, snookered again, hoodwinked by my own party, fuckin politicians…..
It would be interesting to know if/how much WaPo Corp has benefited from the Bush corrupt Dept of Education. Kaplan educational services is a 300 million dollar part of the corp.
It’s only recently that the Post has become so overtly partisan, to the point of recklessness, in promoting its war agenda and attacking Democrats. When everyone was rah rahing it there was less desperation and less need for unethical “journalism”. But look at the unusual ugliness of recent maneuvers: Broder’s attack on Reid, the multiple Elizabeth Cheney op-eds, and, most importantly, the sustained and concerted smear on Pelosi (which echoed A*P*C’s booing of her) for visiting Syria.
The Post is showing an unreconstructed neocon face more and more. It’s all got to end in the discovery of some tawdriness, a la Black and Wolfowitz.
Edited * by Mod
I know I did a naughty thing, but I left a message on Weisman’s voicemail and told him to get his head out of Rove’s ass. He’s either quoting a knucklehead like Lieberman(or his surrogate Dangerstein) or lying.
Is “Do Do” before the Sainted Arlen’s name deliberate or Pavolvian, Jane?
Fairfax @
2
DOD wanted reliable bases to replace the Saudi bases.
State wanted a compliant secular ally to balance out Iran.
Cheney wanted to get money to Halliburton and other companies, and establish an permanent authoritarian republican presidency that governed through fearmongering and rigging elections.
The idiot neocons really thought they could parachute Chalabi in.
Rove wanted a wartime presidency.
Of course, these goals were unspeakable and unattainable. So they made up a buncha lies, including a ridiculous claim that they were going to establish a democratic state. al Sistani called them on that, and it’s been straight downhill ever since.
Just want to boast about my US Rep.
Jan Schakowsky, U.S. Rep from Illinois, today announced that she is co-sponsoring Kucinich’s motion to impeach Cheney.
Go Jan!
That makes three members of Congress who think there is a problem with the Vice President lying to the American people and acting like the laws do not apply to him.
Don’t you wish you had a cool Rep like mine? Why not phone yours and tell them to get with the program?
jayackroyd @ 22
Forgetting something?
After reading the TPM link, I have to ask why the Dem’s havent’ asked for and gotten major tv time to bring this FALSE accusation on the part of Moonie’s WAPO to the attention of the american public!
Oh, Moon. Rich and powerful. Proven dirty and nasty too.
Just like ReThugs. People disappear.
Dem’s need some more spine, and need to go for jugular on these issues. SOMEONE will publish their voices. The People WANT to hear their voices. And we get. Silence.
Madame Speaker, I hope yer pullin levers behind that curtain, I really, really, hope you are. Cuz this waitin’s the hardest part and I’m goin bonkers waitin, and waitin, and waitin, for to get my country back.
Harumph.
jayackroyd @ 20
That is absolutely the case. It was all gonna be so easy.
The correct response to Clusterfuck is:
1) For four years you have given us nothing but hot air about the war. You are always “making progress” and all the time- things are getting worse- so you have ZERO credibility on this- or any other issue. You are all show and no go. All talk and no walk. So just shut the fuck up.
2) It’s been over four years. It’s been 3,300 troops, it’s been 500 billion dollars. It’s obvious that you will continue to suck us dry until you leave office if we allow it. You are a failed executive promoting a failed experiment.
3) You have until the end of the year to make progress against these benchmarks–including military and political progress. If you don’t- don’t bother to blame the military or the Iraqis- it’s YOUR military and YOUR Iraqi government. If you don’t make progress- there will be NO MORE MONEY- except to bring our troops home safely.
We are sending you the following
- a bill funding the war through December
-a separate sense of the congress resolution laying out the benchmarks and expressing the sense of the majority of congress that unless the benchmarks are met- there will be no more money- period.
We trust that this is all clear to you. Now quit fuckin squackin and start working- and don’t even THINK about vetoing this legislation or we will squash you like the bug that you are.
With all due respect
The congress of the people of the United States of America.
BTW, thank you Mizz Jane for the thread . . . up to date and all over it as can be. This pup thanks you for that.
it’s just a snippet and way out of context but watch this
the president tries to say “either we’re gonna win or we we’ll loose
he can’t hold in the laughter as he tries to say we might win
talk about freudian slips, you have to watch that
Jayackroyd & BobbyG
Please look at 16 above.
1,505 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hamsher and the Firepup Patriots:
The “shock and awe” is gone from the Wurlitzer keyboard so they’re left with shoutin’ at the top of their lungs about how the limp-wristed liberals are all confused and in disarray…I only hope that a few of the limp-wristed pseudo Democrats don’t listen to that shit.
But seriously, who inside the Democratic leadership is feedin’ the Pravda Post this crap? I think if the blog journalists and muckrakers (are you listening Josh Marshall)can expose the Quislings who are tryin’ to undermine the leadership (first names of Rahm and Steny, maybe) we might go a long way to disenfranchisin’ ‘em in the next election.
What do you hear from your well-placed people about this Jane? Have you spoken to Howie Klein about where Rahm has been on this…it seems that the only folks to benefit from the Democrats losin’ here (besides the corporations and their families) are the Clintonistas.
I think it’s time for a nationwide one-day strike in support of the Democrats here…after all, the Democrats don’t need a super majority to keep passin’ the same supplemental and if the fascists in the congress stop a new bill then the Department of Defense can go until the end of the fiscal year by scavenging from their 2007 appropriations.
KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T BELIEVE A WORD THEY SAY!!
NorskeFlamethrower
To which country do you think that perhaps Steny and Rahm owe greater loyalty?
The Dems just need to play “High-Low” with the deadlines.
Start with, say, 2100, just to pick a round number. “OK, Mr. President, will you commit the US to withdrawing troops by 2100?”
If “no”, well we’ve got quite a headline for the noosepapers, don’t we?
PRESIDENT REFUSES TO COMMIT TO TROOP WITHDRAWAL THIS CENTURY.
If, a sputtering “Yes”, then we try a more recent date.
2090? Stupid question.
2069? Stop already.
2040? I see where you’re going with this but…
2015? I can’t imagine we wouldn’t, but…
OK, then. The President has acknowledged his personal idea of when might be a reasonable , erm, timetable. Now how about just listen to some other ideas, like say TOMORROW and compromise on something the American People can live with like, say, Thanksgiving.
That doesn’t do it for you? here’s another idea: come to an agreement on the deadline with Congressional leadership. Hard deadlines and all that. THEN…
DON’T TELL ANYONE!
Imagine Pelosi, Reid and W at a joint conference where Plosi and Reid are smiling like canary-fed felines and W announces we have agreed on a timetable that everyone can live with. We won’t tell you right now, so’s we don’t tip off the evil schemers and all, but it’s in writing and enforceable. If we don’t abide by it and haven’t agreed with the Congressional Leadership to adjust it based on events on the ground or in the world, they can go public and hold my administration really accountable.
How ’bout that, firepups? I know it isn’t as satisfactory as the Prez just rolling over or the Congress getting enough votes to override, but it’ll do as a tactic for now, won’t it. Better than some milquetoast compromise that holds the Iraqi government accountable rather than our own. IMHO.
The Washington Post, with its reporters so close to the objects of their attention, regularly allows insiders to whisper in its ears. It must be hard to say no.
But the Post often ends up repeating what it hears rather than reporting what it sees. This is a newspaper that imagines that it is authoritative on local news as well as on national and international news. It acts like it owns Washington, D.C., and it has a very inflated idea of the power that derives from covering the U.S. Empire’s central real estate.
I’m sure that the story about the Democrats knuckling under came from the whisperings of Democrats and Republicans who fear that we might actually reach a legislative impasse (or worse) over the prolongation of Bush’s Bloodbath.
The Post is fascinated by the whisperings and the machinations and the perquisites of power, but it has a hard time stringing a story out of the anecdotes that it loves to collect and repeat.
Since Bush’s appointment to the presidency by the Supreme Court, we have been living through a constitutional crisis that the Post has refused to cover, let alone protest. And the story was unfolding right in front of it, most of it within walking distance.
Another simple story: Congress presented Bush with the legislation he needed to bow out of the war in Iraq; Bush refused to heed the best advice he has received in years. Congress wants to end the war; Bush wants to prolong it. Yet the Post covers it like it’s a game, just as it mistakes presidential politics for horseracing.
froggermarch @ 32
NICE!!!!
send this off to the first female president of this country, she’ll LOVE IT
jackackroyd:
I think it was Scowcroft who said of Cheney, “I don’t recognize him any more”. Cheney’s desire for this war has always confused me. I recall a kind of trial balloon floated by Cheney in the 90’s about lifting the sanctions on Iraq, as a good way of getting that oil, obviously — I tried to dig up something on this and found a link to an archived Washington Post article (http://www.usaengage.org/archives/resources/journals.html). I also remember George Will, a convservative/neoconservative fence sitter, broaching the same idea, asking (rightly) at what point the Clinton sanctions policy could be deemed “immoral”. Meanwhile, Cheney’s long-standing desire to lift sanctions on Libya was ultimately a success. Add to all this the fact that Halliburton illegally does business in Iran.
At some point Cheney threw in with the neoconservatives. Granted, at this point it’s of academic interest, but it’s a relatively recent phenomenon that the Republican Party (of which I am not one) become the home of neoconservaties. By the same token, despite Pelosi’s pretty sincere efforts, the neocon swamps in the Democratic Party have not been drained, as evidenced by Rahm’s or Hoyer’s or whoever’s schemings.
1,505 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen rwcole:
It seems that the only difference between your suggestion and the existing vetoed proposal is you actually move the date forward from March of ‘08 to this December…this will never fly in the Congress but it doesn’t hafta. This is the end-game. The Democrats are drivin’ a deuce and a half toward the fascist Pinto in this game of chicken…all they hafta do is hold firm and send ‘im another bill with the same conditions or declare that they won’t issue a supplemental allocation and let the Department of Defense fund the war on their existin’ budget and then request funds in the ‘08 budget to include the war. This puts the war back on the front page of the regular budget where it belongs and locks Clusterfuck in the outhouse with the Sears catalogue.
This is a game of chicken that the Democrats can’t lose unless they look down at their own shadows.
KEEP THE FAITH AND MAKE ‘EM PAY FOR IT WITH THEIR OWN MONEY!!
perris @ 35
“Joint” conference? hahahahaha Freudian slip?
Dang! It’s been pre-zeded!
brendan @
36
Halliburton is part of the masterplan, too. And they are moving the HQ to Dubai, which indicates that Oil is big in their future plans.
And we’re back to the future once again. {{{{{{{{{{Jane!!!}}}}}}}}}}
dakine01 @ 41
Yep, here we are.
It’s a story that has Republicans tearing their hair out as they fight for their political lives, and yet “Democrats in Disaray” — even as they act on the will of the majority of the American people — curiously continues to dominate the headlines.
It’s worth pointing out, though, that in almost all of these stories, the reporter says something like “Democrats, along with some Republicans, are looking to…” fill in the blank.
Yes, the wurlitzer is still humping and thumming along nicely. But still, even the mention of “some Republicans” must have the lock-step party elders going insane.
Also, more real stories are coming out (too, too slowly) and the daily pressers at the WH are becoming actually contentious. I was honestly shocked to read (over at ThinkProgress) that reporters are giving it to Tony Snow. I was just sure he came back because the WH figured nobody would dare challenge him, now that he’s sick and all.
After all, it worked so well for Elizabeth Edwards and Jane Hamsher. Oh, wait…
*merciless hopes you have a lovely walk, Jane!*
Fairfax @ 2
It all about the profiteering. A lot of folks are raking in a lot of money.
evanstonian @
23
Unfortunately with the not so honorable Lamar Smith as my congress critter, he’ll be one of the last ones still saying “but, but, but, but CLINTON…”
Don’t get me started on Snowe and Collins; I’m an unwilling constituent and I’m highly skeptical as to the effective that any wedge might have on either of them – they’re continually touted as ‘moderates’, but their voting records tell a different story.
OT – you will not believe how this young man has “Commander-guy” nailed:
http://www.jibjab.com/jokebox/…..eid/125614
Hello {{{{{Jane}}}}}}, thank you.
In the interim it seems that Speker Nancy and Leader Harry have told the Dem caucus that they didn’t cave, or at least not yet.
So, who’s talking to WaPo? Steny? Rahm? Who else? Undermining Nancy? WTF?
Anybody else sick of the “St. Ronald Reagan” crap? “There you go again” was brilliant? It was about as “masterful” as Arnold Schwarennegger saying “make my day.”
Carter told people they had to look to the future and tighten the oil belt. Reagan told everyone they could keep driving gas hogs and do what the hell they want. He “vision” was to convince Americans that all government was bad.
Jeebus I can’t wait for that batch of hogwash to be rewritten by history.
dakine01 @ 45
My Rep. Devin Nunez, is as worthless as tits on a pig. His tongue is so far up bushco’s ass, it may require surgical extraction next year.
George Bush has himself a heck of a wedgie.
OT – Rice, Syrian leader talk.
MSNBC, AP, NPR, CNN apologize to Pelosi for “Talking to Terrorists” smears.
Not.
Jane Hamsher @ 48
Reagan talking = Nero fiddling
…and the mind reels with metaphors for Bush!
Jane Hamsher @
48
My take was always that Carter tried to force us to live up to our professed ideals while Ray-guns made everyone feel good about their hates.
EPU’d from below:
Bin Ladin is NOT wanted for Sept. 11
Republicans like Olympia Snowe:
A likely sticking point is whether to include consequences if the Iraqi government fails to meet the benchmarks.
snip
How can you reach benchmarks when you’re on a two month vacation like the Iraqi Parliment–you tube video Wolf & Rice.
Texas Betsy @ 54
Perhaps because he isn’t really responsible.
Jane Hamsher @ 48
Me, too. I am sick of the “St. Ronald Reagan” crap; knowing the damage his crew did to the poeple and the country. And frankly, there are many still actively gnawing away at our good government. ..termites..
Loo Hoo @ 50
lol
Hotflash – Watching Pelosi and Reid speak after the veto I could not help but notice Rahm was in the group behind them.. He had a disturbing smirk on his face and could not wipe it off even when it looked like he was trying.
OT Goodling’s Attorney gives the DOJ a big Smack Down:
“What disturbs us most is that the Department chose to make its announcement about Ms. Goodling in the midst of Congress’s ongoing investigation into the Department’s affairs, and less than two weeks after the House Judiciary Committee passed a resolution authorizing the House General Counsel to apply for an order of immunity for Ms. Goodling. The timing of your release smacks of retribution and intimidation.”
TPM Lionk
allan_in_upstate @ 51
you had me going there for a minute
epu’d from twilight zone thread:
running thru the airport, I did hear Hillary on the TV saying it was time to end the war now. Just a snippet, but the most definite thing I’ve heard her say … given her triangulation ways, that really tells you where slightly right of center is currently
ccmask @ 55
Simple: Bush uses the Iraqi Parliment’s two month break to make some recess appointments.
We don’t just export democracy, we also export the Unitary Executive.
Eureka Springs @ 59
I’m sorry, but Rahm is a disturbing smirk.
Fairfax @ 2
To protect “our” oil.
But beyond that, ironically, it is to keep the US (and by extension) the world economy from collapsing. We need oil to heat our houses, run our cars, build our buildings and highways, get food to the supermarkets, make our chips and computers.
The problem of course is that, as Gore is trying to teach, we need to reduce our carbon output from fossil fuels and completely overhaul our economy. To survive we (the US and the rest of the world) need a green economy. And we will never get there, if governmental policies don’t start reflecting, and dealing with, these realities such as peak oil, climate change, factory farming, etc.
These are excruciating choices. As long as the current administration continues to look backwards, those choices will become even more deadly in the future, even long after Bush is gone. The current Iraq war is only the second in what I fear will be a series of oil wars over the next several decades. Anyone else notice how it’s the Texas Bush oil family starting these wars. God help us, and our kids if Jeb ever makes it to the White House.
Why did we go to war in Iraq? It’s simple, but oh so complicated.
They are getting ready on MSNBC to crown the next president tonight based on a one-liner. That’s why they keep repeating Reagan, Reagan. I’m guessing it will be Giuliani or Romney tonight, but Gingrich will come out and run later (unless he visited the DC Madam).
I have a BFH to use on that wedge,drive it deep.
IrishJim @ 60
Hmmm. Maybe she should just tell her story to ABC and be done with it.
IrishJim @
60
EPU’d from a couple of threads down, AkinGump Secretary fired for working partime for DC Madam. Link originally posted by Stephen_Parish CPA. Goodling’s attorney is parner at AkinGump.
I rewrote this article for Fox, substituting Condi for Pelosi.
WASHINGTON — An apparently botched message during a widely discouraged visit by House Condi Rice to Syria this week has U.S. officials criticizing rogue efforts at diplomacy among U.S. politicians.
State Department officials said Thursday they made it quite clear they did not want Condi Rice to visit Syria, a nation that is listed as a state sponsor of terror and is home to terror group Hezbollah, which started a low-grade war with Israel last summer.
Olmert’s office also issued a statement saying it had specified to Rice that Israel considers Syria “part of the axis of evil and a party encouraging terrorism in the entire Middle East.”
Even The Washington Post editorialized in Thursday editions that “Ms. Rice’s attempt to establish a shadow presidency is not only counterproductive, it is foolish.”
BAD CONDI, BAD CONDI……
http://rawstory.com/
tbsa @ 44
it was about stealing the treasure of an entire country, (Iraq) and stealing the treasure and assets aquired over generations of the American middle class
it’s about creating a robber baron society.
it’s not so much about having middle east oil as it is about controlling middle east oil
think about that, we invaded one of the oil richest lands on the planet, do not protect the infrastructure and wind up with less oil
think about that
ccmask @ 70
Made slight correction for you. Please forgive.
Hillary on CNN moments ago; “President won’t face reality, Congress will bring reality to him” wrt Sen Byrd cutting off funding for Iraq war.
Bustednuckles @ 71
CNN has been talking about that all afternoon. The White House has already issued a snotty statement about it.
If the Democrats back down, it will be very bad for our soldiers, who will continue to be maimed and killed for nothing. And it will be very bad for the Democrats as well. The Republicans, of course, are finished because they have no credible excuse for the disaster they’ve created and continue to support.
Look for Democrats to stand their ground and stop the war…or face fierce challenges in primaries around the country from candidates who actually have guts…and a conscience.
Eureka Springs @ 59
Well, his official picture looks pretty smirky, maybe it’s just his face. But according to Greg Sargant, who emailed Post reporter Weisman and requested comment, Weisman said:
It’s like 1 x 2 x 4 all over again. Who are these people? I want Christine Cegelis in Rahm’s office. What would it take to get her to run again?
Sorry, at work, no teevee.
Publicus @ 76
We have to do the right thing
lee5 @ 62
Gravel might not have a snowball’s chance, and ET seems to think he’s a flake, but if he drags the candidate’s discourse to the left, that’s a bonus.
What about splitting the appropriation? Send a clean bill for Afghanistan, but cut off funds for Iraq?
Just a thought.
Any acknowledgement of reality places gooey facts at the feet of the President. I don’t see him capable of accepting their existence, let alone taking action to deal with them, no matter how badly it affects Repbulican candidates in 2008. His whole life, his whole presidency, is tightly bound up in doing the opposite.
RonD @ 81
Within DoD, they can re-arrange the funds once they’ve been appropriated so it would not accomplish much unless the funds were specified to ONLY be used in Afghanistan which prol’ly wouldn’t fly.
earlofhuntingdon @ 82
It’s simpler than that — the Idiot-in-Chief does not give a damn about the Republican Party. The question is — when will the GOP face that fact?
excellent post Jane.
I almost never watch network news (and I don’t have cable/satellite)… but for some reason I tuned in to ABC new last night… cus occasionally they are sane.
But Charles Gibson jumped on the bandwagon… while interviewing Stephanopolus (the louse).. Gibson repeated the “Democrats are all over the place” mantra at least twice..
plus they played a soundbite from Pelosi that (admittedly) was a bit weird, and then Gibson ridiculed it.
The media have the American public (well those that are partially paying attention) by the balls… and the Americans by and large are too dumb to figure it out.
RonD @ 81
Why you think Afghanistan war is OK? It’s a crock, too.
someone had a GREAT idea downstairs somewhwere;
secret timelines
this way the president can’t claim the terrorists will just hang for us to leave and the president will be able to say he got his way and worked with the democrats on funding
and if the president refuses that pelosi can use his refusal as capitol to prove he’s not willing to make any steps toward bringing the troops home
WaPo: Pravda
I was thinking about this whole Bush situation… and how do we get him out or even how do we get his atrocious, treasonous acts brought out into the light of day, so all Americans see them… and I reflected on how Watergate became a big issue and how it finally led to Nixon being ousted.
And, obviously, it was because the media back then were on the side of truth… at least enough of them to keep the spotlight on the story. Of course, having a secret source called Deep Throat regularly leaking information helped as well.
But I don’t see any of that happening with Bush… first and foremost the corporate media of today will not coalesce around the treasonous acts of Bush… too many of them are more concerned about their celebrity status and multi-million dollar salaries to upset their personal applecarts.
That’s really what it comes down to… there are not enough mainstream media outlets willing to tell the truth to power so that average Americans can know it.
PBS … at least the Newshour and Gwen Awful… = Pravda Broadcasting Service
Their reporting is SO biased these days it’s really hard to believe.
Made slight correction for you. Please forgive.
If I didn’t have IE, I would have made it myself :))
Gasoline prices at about $3.20/gallon and climbing. What was the price when Shrub took office?
Bustednuckles @ 71
I watched Senator Byrd propose this idea on the Senate floor this afternoon. Sounds like a plan to me.
Byrd proposes making the date of October 11, 2007 the official end of the authority Congress granted the Executive Branch with its (disastrous) October 11, 2002 Authorization to use Military Force in Iraq resolution. Byrd says let Bush come back to Congress and ask for authority for a different mission, if he still wants to do something in Iraq, since the original 2002 AUMF objectives are now moot. Time for a “cease-fire” in Congress says Byrd – and asks for other Senators to support this effort to officially end the president’s authority to use our Armed Forces in Iraq, thereby putting the DOD on notice that they must pull our military out by 10/11/07.
earlofhuntingdon @ 93
Here’s California 1996 to now.
earlofhuntingdon @ 92
Where I live in California it’s 3.87 for the cheapest octane. Not to mention absolutely everything is costing more because of it. Insane!
Hi Jane!—typo in last paragraph
“Now I perfectly well expect them all do do the Arlen Specter two-step” did you mean “to do”?
even though doing the arlen spector two-step does involve stepping around do-do………
Another thing–isn’t it something how Congress are now identified by the word “politicians”.
If you look above in post #70 and also Bush said it the other night when he vetoed the bill. I know they are politicians, but shouldn’t he show some respect of their office?
earlofhuntingdon @ 92
I guess it’s time for the US to make another payment to ExxonMobil’s profitabliity fund.
EarlofH.#92-It’d be interesting to compare total inflation since Shrub took over to oil price increase since Shrub took over. Consider the % difference to be the “Gouge Index”.
If I didn’t have a free gas card from work I don’t know how I could afford $3.00 a gallon today. I am luckier than most.
I get an Error when I try to go to the new thread. Is it just me?
LS @ 101
Ditto.
Help! Jane just disappeared again. I hit refresh and got 404′d.
Seriously,New Thread
Mod Note; the new thread went up a little prematurely and will be back soon.]
Fairfax @ 98
Real Mission Accomplised!
I still get Error 404 Eureka Springs.
Eureka Springs @ 104
seriously – not there.
?
tbsa @
102
as well. but at least we know what the topic is. :})
Texas Betty at #54:
On July 4, 2006, the CIA announced it had disbanded its Osama Bin Laden division and reassigned those agents: in 2005. Curiouser and curiouser.
LS @ 106
Me too. WTF!
RonD @ 100
Did you see this article on adjusting the DJ for inflation? Puts things in an interesting perspective. And record profits for corps just means that less of our earnings are staying with the poor and middle class ending up in the pockets of the top 5%.
dakine01 @ 108
The photo is priceless!!!
earlofhuntingdon @ 92
I believe it was about 1.40 at the start of 2001.
Oops, that is this article from goldsilver.com
I guess Jane is playing with us again ….)
Must be a glitch, I do not see a new thread yet.
cc in nm @ 90
I second that comment. Lehrer and his team used to retain more command of their interviews and challenge their interviewees more when they told whoppers. Judy Woodruff, in particular, seems to only challenge those who oppose her personal views. Even in the OpEd portion, Lehrer used to challenge Babbling Brooks; now he just listens. The News Hour generally seems to have fallen into death trap of talking heads; it uses competing advocates instead of traditional experts.
I suspect that the administration’s budget shenanigans have had their intended impact. Another foundation undercut.
lokijohn @ 109
The Bush family has always taken care of their cronies. (It is, after all, the family business.) The Bin Laden family have long been Bush cronies. There’ll be no Bin Landens harmed on The Commander Guy’s watch.
Okay, let’s see: If they crown,
Giuliani – we get police state.
Romney – business as usual and more Kyles.
Brownback – more Rubber stamping.
McCain – POW revenge wars.
I don’t see Reagan yet. Who else is running? There are 10 of them.
Today’s propaganda from the White House: Setting the Record Straight: Iraq Is The Central Front Of Al Qaeda’s Global Campaign
Today’s personnel changes at the White House: Personnel Announcement
Thanks, Hotflash.
tbsa @
110
I blame Ted Stevens
Guess Jane’s time-travelling again.
LS @
119
Tancredo: It’s all the immigrant’s and illegal aliens fault
Ron Paul: End the war and kill the gov’t.
Tommy Thompson: Who knows?
Eureka Springs @ 104
The Thread link is not working 404 Not Found Error
Maybe they are going to have a Reagan hologram making quips running for president.
LS#126, I beat my brains out to defeat Reagan, but a Reagan hologram would still be better than what we’ve had for the last 6 years.
Even Chris Matthews is dissing The Washington Post these days. Frankly, I wouldn’t even trust them to get the date right each morning.
RonD @ 127
I agree. Bush = worst 2 term, not-president ever.
Frank Probst @ 128
Well, that would depend on what date the White House wanted it to be.
Wouldn’t it be hilarious if the nominees for ‘08 were Kucinich vs Ron Paul!!!!!!!!!
twolf1 @ 122
The Link to Nowhere.
The WaPo just gets more slimy by the day.
I wonder whether Ghouliani will do his Count Dracula impression tonight…
twolf1 @
122
As I’ve said before, techno miracles sometimes aren’t.
neurophius @ 134
I hope they ask him why he put his offices in the WTC, and also ask him why the NYFD is so pissed at him. (they won’t)
When I was a kid I volunteered for Ron Paul’s ‘88 campaign
evanstonian @
23
I used to have a cool Rep like yours. Now we have a great Speaker instead. Thanks to your Rep for joining Dennis in his quest.
evabaruk @
137
Nice to see you’ve left the dark side for the light. ;})
As everyone seems poised to attempt to beat lolo to the zed…
IrishJim @ 113
Mission accomplished.
I blame Steny Hoyer.
The potentially pivotal debate, the Republicans’ first, is hosted by the library in conjunction with MSNBC and Politico.com.
Chris “Hardball” Matthews will be the moderator and Politico Editor-in-Chief John F. Harris will join him in asking questions.
During the unique interactive rounds, Politico executive editor Jim VandeHei will present questions chosen by popular vote of Politico.com users.
Our readers submitted more than 3,200 questions and those were narrowed to 90 in a first round of voting by visitors to the site.
During the debate, our readers will get the chance to act as moderator.
You’ll be able to come to the site, click on one of the 10 candidates, then vote on one of three questions that will be under each candidate, for each of three potential interactive rounds.
The wizard behind all this, Politico.com managing editor and associate publisher Dan Kunitz, says the site can handle 25,000 votes a second, so don’t hold back. In the debate hall, Jim will see a bar chart of results so he can tell at a glance which question is most popular.
*cough*
LS asks, who are the rest of the 10 GOP candidates? Here’s a new “hottie rundown”–with photos, natch–from a Salon columnist…
GOP Debate ‘Hottie Rundown’
I got a robo call about an hour ago to Rep Ehler (MI-12)’s Town Hall meeting this coming saturday. It’s only an hour long and i’m tempted to go.
If only to see if i can get a question in to that idiot that points out his idiocy. He’s a rubber stamper, not quite as fanatical as Hoekstra, but still a lock step republican.
I just sincerely doubt i’d get a word in, because the old coot would likely speak for 45 minutes and screen questions before hand. I really wouldn’t past them. Besides, i’m ‘brown’ so i’d bet i’d get ignored.
(My cynicism for this knows no bounds. An hour isn’t enough time to get anything worthwhile done when speaking to your own constituents.)
evabaruk @ 137
OK, I can’t take it anymore.
A lot of you know what my name is, now you get to know my last name.
Every time I see this guy’s name and he is running for President I crack up.
Thats because he has the same name as my Dad.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com…..81024.aspx
California gas prices are whopping. The cost of oil in the ground, represented by reserves held by big oil, hasn’t changed much since George took office.
Extraction costs may have gone up, possibly refining, but there’s a good argument that capacity has been purposely constrained. Most of that higher price at the pump seems a function of increasing competition with China – something this administration has avoided discussing as rabidly as withdrawing from Iraq – and heightened political risk caused by Mr. Bush’s wars. Big Oil and big terrorist funding families seem to benefit most. Oh, and the portfolios of Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney.
The average grocery store item travels 1300 miles between source and store. What’s the average for those jeans at Wal-Mart, made in SE Asia and on Pacific Islands, the white goods at Sears, whose many parts are made in China, Singapore and Malaysia, the car parts from China and Hungar, ad nauseum.
The global economy is dependent on sourcing models that require goods to travel multiple of thousands of miles, sometimes back and forth, before final assembly or delivery. Mr. Bush could not have made more money for his oil buddies if that had been the primary focus of his presidency.
Next time, let’s elect a president who knows how to put the toilet seat down and can think more than one step ahead.
CD @ 144
THAT is funny!!
mc @
141
I think it was $2.87 or so today in San Antonio
Jane Hamsher @
48
Nancy will be in the front row this evening, as well. I hope she wears her signature color: AIDS-Blood Red!
I liked the Salon rundown too, LS. Especially nice touch, I thought, giving the ratings in number of fetuses rather than stars.
anyone know where a girl might find a link to a video of the Comey testimony today?
ccmask @ 143
Will Chris Matthews get the ball rolling by measuring each of the candidates’ pectorals?
This new polling just in, from AP…Giuliani has slipped 13 points in recent weeks…
THE NUMBERS, DEMOCRATS
Hillary Rodham Clinton, 32 percent
Barack Obama, 18 percent
Al Gore, 14 percent
John Edwards, 12 percent
___
THE NUMBERS, REPUBLICANS
Rudy Giuliani, 27 percent
John McCain, 19 percent
Fred Thompson, 14 percent
Mitt Romney, 8 percent
allan_in_upstate @
154
Nah, their codpieces so he can know who to have the biggest man-crush on.
InCurious George Tenet is on Lehrer’s News Hour. Incredibly softball interview. Tenet “did not expect” the harsh reaction to his book. The CIA doesn’t make policy, it crafts good intelligence from the facts. They made mistakes, but unintentionally. CIA are good people. It wasn’t my job to say go, no go into Iraq. Yadadada.
Mr. Tenet doesn’t seem to distinguish between what his analysts do and what the agency director does. What an ass.
http://judiciary.house.gov/oversight.aspx?ID=310
ERIC MASSA NEEDS YOUR HELP
A self-funding millionaire is running against Massa for the Dem nomination in NY-29. We need your help. Here’s the Kos diary I wrote about this. Please help if you can.
Mr. Tenet has discovered the notion that there’s “no unilateral solution” in response to terrorists/extremists.
raven @ 158
thanks raven!
How In HELL can the Republican Congressmen NOT support strict guidelines on al- Maliki after reports like these!
“BAGHDAD, April 29 — A department of the Iraqi prime minister’s office is playing a leading role in the arrest and removal of senior Iraqi army and national police officers, some of whom had apparently worked too aggressively to combat violent Shiite militias, according to U.S. military officials in Baghdad.
Since March 1, at least 16 army and national police commanders have been fired, detained or pressured to resign; at least nine of them are Sunnis, according to U.S. military documents shown to The Washington Post…several were considered to be among the better Iraqi officers in the field. The dismissals have angered U.S. and Iraqi leaders who say the Shiite-led government is sabotaging the military to achieve sectarian goals.
“Their only crimes or offenses were they were successful” against the Mahdi Army, a powerful Shiite militia, said Brig. Gen. Dana J.H. Pittard, commanding general of the Iraq Assistance Group, which works with Iraqi security forces. “I’m tired of seeing good Iraqi officers having to look over their shoulders when they’re trying to do the right thing.”
The issue strikes at a central question about the fledgling government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki: whether it can put sectarian differences aside to deliver justice fairly.
Col. Ehrich Rose, chief of the Military Transition Team with the 4th Iraqi Army Division, who has spent several years working with foreign armies, said the Iraqi officer corps is riddled with divergent loyalties to different sects, tribes and political groups.”The Iraqi army, as far as capability goes, I’d stack them up against just about any Latin American army I’ve dealt with,” he said. “However, the politicization of their officer corps is the worst I’ve ever seen.”
At the national level, some U.S. officials are increasingly concerned about the Office of the Commander in Chief, a behind-the-scenes department that works on military issues for the prime minister.
One adviser in the office, Bassima Luay Hasun al-Jaidri, has enough influence to remove and intimidate senior commanders, and her work has “stifled” many officers who are afraid of angering her, a senior U.S. military official said. U.S. commanders are considering installing a U.S. liaison officer in the department to better understand its influence.”
Fairfax @
2
I do not recall. I do not recall. I do not recall…
Frank33 @ 163
Cause Cheney said the 19 hijackers were from Iraq?
Frank33 @ 163
An instant classic!
earlofhuntingdon @ 157
No one could have anticipated the shock of a few Americans over a war criminal pimping more lies and a book.
Tenet is saying everything but “please buy my book”. Why didn’t he speak out before now? Took him “a long while to think about what he went through”. Patiently, methodically [,lucratively].
His legacy: He had a tough job, he did it to the best of his ability, and led his people honestly.
Excuse me while I find a brown paper bag.
Jane Hamsher @
11
The road to enjoyment is paved by knowing the names for things. Unfortunately for me, I wouldn’t know what jonquils smell like unless I was standing in a field of jonquils, with an obvious sign in 6″ type saying “Field of Jonquils.” (sigh) So much to learn, so little time.
Bob in HI
thank you, raven :)
aReader @ 165
If you recall
Hi Jane,
Jonquils are the ones that look like daffodils only smaller. They smell kinda like lettuce.
You don’t have to know the names of things to know what they are.
Webb on lou dobbs…
sorry mods oops
preview is my friend.preview is my friend.
In what was meant to be a trust-building gesture of goodwill, German Chancellor Angela Merkel officially handed over to the United States a 500-year-old map that was the first such document to use the word “America”. Unfortunately, the map, completed by the German cartographer Martin Waldseemueller in 1507, was also the first such document to use the words “home of the warmongering American earth rapists and cultureless capitalistic and puritan bourgeois Yankee imperialists”, although written in much smaller writing, or course, in red ink, and barely noticeable down there in the bottom left corner. No, over there. More to the left.
….right after Christopher Columbus shortened his name to Christ and discovered America.
Bob – They don’t have daffodils aka jonquils in Hawaii?
SEND IT BACK ! – J Edwards
maunga @ 16
Gotta support that military-production and supply system somehow. A peacetime economy meant that a lot of these companies would have to pare down immensely. After the fall of the USSR they had little or no hope in generating the types ofd tax-supported profits that maintained the salaries of their Executives or the residuals paid to their stockholders.
Even a strike against the Taliban and Al Qaida in Afghanistan wouldn’t generate the incomes they desired (even if the war there was drawn out as long as possible). Iraq and a perpetual war would gaurantee just the sort of dip into the tax-payers pocketbook that they could thrive on!
Eureka Springs @
175
Hawaii has little flowers like orchids, anthiriums, poinsettias and such
As I recall, CNN, or some other bullshitters, said just before the vote on bill Commander Guy vetoed—they said it was unlikely Dems had the vote and that it was unlikely Rethugs were voting with them.
I’d sure like to try whatever it is they’re smoking.
Scarborough is an idiot. He says the winning candidate has to push the we haven’t been attacked since 9/11 because of Bush.
Joe.
Bush was the fake Republican president on 9/11.
Cheney was the fake Republican president on 9/11.
Giuliani was the Republican Mayor of NYC on 9/11.
Congress was a Republican majority on 9/11.
The Republicans did not protect us from 9/11 even though they were warned that something like it would happen. See 8/6/01 PDB. What a crock.
So STFU already.
I see a new thread, I promise I do…)
Eureka Springs @ 181
you are a visionary
Hey, Jane!!
Better late than never I get to read over things.
This is a wonderful way to unwind.
mc @ 65
Oil production and exports from Iraq are actually LOWER now than they were before the invasion. Saddam could not control who received the oil once it lkeft his borders. The petroleum market is one where there is fungibility in pricing. If you sell oil to one country that opens up oil shipments of the oil that you would have bought to some other country.
And, like most dictators, Saddam was perfectly happy to export oil to anyone willing to pay him (often at ridiculously discounted prices). To obtain his oil they simply had to pay reasonably small “supplements” (far less than the Iraqi oil ministry under Bremer embezzled away).
In addition, the amount of fuel used in the Iraq War was equivalent to that of a moderate-sized nation…all of this paid for by the taxpayer at a premium, I should say.
I was wondering if people might be ignoring these facts. Gasoline companies actually can make MORE MONEY by having less gasoline… provided they can increase demand. They didn’t want Iraq’s Oil, they wanted to REDUCE it’s production while increasing demand.
That’s why the expensive gasoline today can generate vast profits for Arco, BP, Shell, etc.
My Republican congresscritter (Wayne Gilcrest) has now voted
o to override Bush’s veto on the war spending bill
o against the Military Commissions Act
o in favor of the repeal of “don’t ask don’t tell”
o In favor of District of Columbuia voting rights
and is catching flak from the Washington Times (big surprise).
But he’s a Vietnam Veteran and I think those hard earned lessons have not been lost on him. The reason I bring this up is that I think there are more than a few wavering Republicans who are coming to the the realization that with regard to their loyalty to BushCo (as the Mary Chapin Carpenter song goes)
It’s so hard admittin’
That it’s quittin’ time.
HotFlash @
86
No; I’ve always felt that Afghanistan and Iraq were different. We had good reason to go into Afghanistan: there was a real enemy there. And we had a real reason to stay: a somewhat legitimate new Afghan government under Karzai. Unfortunately, we made the mistake of thinking “Mission accomplished” too soon, and diverted our troops to Iraq before finishing the job.
Again, it was the anti-historical hubris of the Bush administration, that glanced for a few milli-seconds at the British and Russian defeats in Afghanistan, and foolishly proclaimed ourselves different and immune from the problems encountered by the Brits and Russkies. And now, Afghanistan is slipping back into chaos again. But at least in Afghanistan, we have a UN/NATO mission that has taken over most of the work (but is still woefully undermanned).
The ignorance of the Bush-Cheney administration in the field of foreign policy is vast, and wide, and deep. Cheney *should* know better, but his policies don’t show it. Powell knew better, but he was cast aside and ignored.
Bob in HI
twolf1 @ 75
The 2002 Resolution did not authorize an occupation, involving our forces in sectarian conflict, or even defending Iraq from enemies.
It simply authorized the use of force to compel Iraq to abide by the UN Resolutions on WMD’s and sanctions.
That’s it.
Any further use of troops would require a NEW RESOLUTION!
That’s been my mantra all along! Otherwise you simply allow a President to use one Authorization for anything, anywhere. The conditions and terms already exist in the 2002 Authorization. Bush has violated them.
Frank33 @
163
And nothing improper was done. [*/snark*]
Bob in HI
HotFlash @
171
Jane knows, and thank goodness that she knows and thereby enjoys them better. I’m the ignoramus who doesn’t know, so I appreciate your comment. Are jonquils a NE yankee thing?
I do know what daffodils look like– I had them in my yard in Flagstaff, and looked forward to their emergence from the winter snows around Easter time.
But not here in Hawaii. Except around Easter, when people get them at the flower shops to remind them of spring in the northern U.S.
Bob in HI
Here’s the thing about an oil company. It doesn’t make any money without oil to sell. Now it can always go out and BUY some oil on the open market- and refine it and sell it- but that’s small potatoes compared to owning it when it comes out of the ground. Oil companies aren’t run by retailers or refiners- they’re run by geologists. Findin and pumpin is what they are about. They would love ta pump Iraq dry.
Eureka Springs @
175
Ah! is it just a difference in name only?
Daffodils are bulbs that require freezing temperatures, IIRC, because they bloom when the soil thaws. The soil doesn’t freeze here, except up in the mountains. Maybe they have daffodils in Maui upcountry, or on Big Island. But there aren’t that many people who live at elevations high enough to grow them. So far as I know. But then, I’m just a mainland haole who’s only been here for about 3 years.
Bob in HI
Clusterfucker wants a “clean bill” with no benchmarks or measures of accountability.
OK give him one- but the funding only lasts for six months. After six months, congress will assess the Clusterfucker’s progress (using the very same benchmarks that he hates- and which are not actually IN the bill) and if he hasn’t made progress- no more dough…
This really isn’t hard.
dakine01 @
178
“Little” HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-A-A-A-A-A! That’s a good one. Flowers in Hawaii, some of them imports from other tropical lands, are BIG, GAUDY, IN YOUR FACE and about as meek and demure as Roseanna-danna-danna. Since I moved here from Arizona, the contrast with the fragile, ephemeral and delicate beauty of the flowers of the dry grasslands of the north part of Arizona were quite a contrast with the flowers of Hawaii.
Bob in HI
Clusterfucker now says that the measure of winning in Iraq is violence reduction.. OK- so let’s see the fuckin measure over the last four years of his war- what’s happened to the level of violence since the first year of the occupation. If it’s goin up- well then Clusterfuck’s losin the fuckin war- right?
Now Clusterfuck wouldn’t be one to CHANGE the criteria of success in midstream- right? So violence reduction has ALWAYS been his goal- so how’s he doin?
Trends since 2003.Following the six week “Shock and Awe” invasion phase (March 19 – May 1, 2003), which alone caused the deaths of some 7,400 civilians, the violent death toll has steadily risen year-on-year. There were 6,332 reported civilian deaths in the 10.5 months following the initial invasion in year one, or 20 per day; 11,312 in year two, 55% up on year one’s daily rate; 14,910 in year three (32% up on year two); and a staggering 26,540 in year four (78% up on year three, and averaging 74 per day). Not counting the 7,400 invasion-phase deaths, four times as many people were killed in the last year as in the first. And from the invasion to the present, at least 110,000 civilians have been wounded, 38,000 of them during year four.
(Iraq body count.org)
So we have a president of the United States standin up sayin that victory consists of violnce reduction- who has INCREASED violence FOURFOLD in four year’s time- and not one fucker from the press even MENTIONS this obscure fact.
rwcole @ 197
But they have their yellow armbands on, though, don’t they?
cc in nm @ 85
I will not stand for the American people being called “dumb.” 56% of the American people opposed the invasion of Iraq. Feb. ‘03. 56%! And that number has now grown to 75%! They have been resisting and rejecting relentless 24/7 war propaganda, and have been from the beginning. This is so wonderful! Why are you not celebrating it? The American people are not dumb. What the American people are is disempowered, and, above all, DISENFRANCHISED!
Sorry to jump in 8 hours later. Been at work. Just caught up with this thread. Had to say it. I really, really object when people say that the American people are stupid sheeple, etc. And it is a big strategic mistake. If the American people were succumbing to the war propaganda, that would be one problem. But their amazing and growing resistance to it poses a very different strategic problem: how to re-empower and RE-ENFRANCHISE them?
Think about the rightwing Bushite electronic voting corporations counting all the votes under a veil of corporate secrecy. Think of the purges of black and other Democratic voters, the vote suppression (Greg Palast puts it at 4 to 6 million votes).
This is a very, very important strategic question and it doesn’t help to keep throwing the word “stupid” at the American people. That is not their problem (except maybe being stupid–or uninformed–about WHO is counting their votes, and HOW). If the votes were being counted in a way that everyone can see and understand, I guarantee you we would have no war in Iraq, and none of this other fascist crap.
Whatever the conservatives talk about Dems doing, they are doing. They tell us all the time what they’re doing – election fraud, flip flop, sex, corruption and on and on… Always listen to their talking points, then go back and find where they are doing the same damn thing.