Steny Hoyer and his Republican friends (PDF) may think that "benchmarks for the Iraqi government" is an acceptable "compromise" as they hand over to George Bush all the money he wants, but others don't.
"President Bush vetoed a bill that supports our troops and ends the war in Iraq that he declared won four years ago," said Edwards. "Congress needs to stand firm and strong. Congress should answer the president's veto by sending him another bill with a timetable for withdrawal. And if he vetoes that one, Congress should send him another and another until we end this war and bring our troops home."
I won't support a supplemental spending bill that doesn't have binding language to redeploy U.S. troops from Iraq. There's a lot of talk right now about Democrats getting the President to sign a bill that only has benchmarks for the Iraqi government to meet. But we're long past the point when just setting benchmarks was enough. Even if funding for the Iraqi government is conditioned on it meeting those benchmarks, that misses the main point — which is that, whether or not the Iraqis meet their benchmarks, we need to get out of Iraq so that we can focus on the national security threats we face around the world. And if those benchmarks aren't binding, then they are nothing more than suggestions. The American people aren't asking us to offer suggestions to the Iraqis — they are asking us to bring our troops out of Iraq.
The next step to ending the war isn't to give in, but to step up the pressure on the President. I'm pleased to be working with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid on a bill to end our open-ended military commitment in Iraq. Now that the President has rejected the will of the American people with this veto, our bill, or some other proposal to end funding for a failed policy, should be the next step to end the war.
MoveOn is sponsoring a series of emergency veto rallies tonight. You can find one in your area here. And if you haven't contacted your represenentative yet, please do so. Let them know that David Broder's stamp of approval for Steny Hoyer's plan is not exactly what the American people have in mind.
The House is debating the override of the President's temper tantrum on CSPAN now. Use the comments thread for discussion.
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MalKKKin?
Boehner’s logic is so convoluted it’s painful just listening to him contort himself.
kdh22 @
1
Thankfully no.
Sorry, my mistake. Should have viewed the video first.
Jane Hamsher @ 1
He is soooo infuriating (and nauseating)!
Jane Hamsher @ 2
C’mon Jane, you know better than to expect any logic or coherency from anyone in the Republic party.
GO MURTHA!
I keep resisting any other course other than to impeach Cheney first, but maybe I am wrong.
It’s a good ad, and a very good message for Edwards to send to his primary rivals. If the congress caves, Edwards can tie this around both Clinton’s and Obama’s necks, and help differentiate himself, possibly to break out.
Cool ad!
But I think that the congress should just move on and not send him anything right now.
kdh22 @
1
Her non-evil twin?
I just sent moveon.org my first money to them ever. not much, ’cause I’ve been leery of their positioning of several issues. but this IS important.
Pachacutec @
9
Its a good ad even if you dont support Edward, which I do
The Dems should do what Bush does with the Supreme Court when they rule against him. Change a couple words and then send it back and see if it flies.
I suggest changing the word Benchmark to something else because I’m tired of hearing Bush say it. Maybe one of these…
barometer, basis, benchmark, bore, capacity, check, criterion, degree, depth, example, exemplar, extent, guide, guideline, height, indicator, magnitude, mark, meter, model, norm, pattern, rule, sample, scale, scope, size, span, standard, test, thickness, touchstone, type, width, yardstick
The Democrats have to remember that they passed a funding bill. It is Bush who vetoed it, so when he tries to blame them it’s bullshit.
It’s like if I gave you dinner and you said, I don’t like the peas, so I’m not eating it. That’s fine, but you can’t blame me for not giving you dinner! (Unless you’re Bush).
He’s trying to micromanage the lawmakers!
who will rid me of this troublesome Hoyer?
Edwards and Feingold doing the job. Oh Hillary…….. where are you?
Glenn Greenwald has another must read on Salon. He dissects Harvey Mansfield’s argument in today’s WSJ that what America needs is a strong man. No, not Jeff Gannon, though that may be Mansfield’s underlying theme (no pun intended).
As Glenn points out, Mansfield is openly articulating the Bush Co., logic, that the President is and should be above the law. Not just during emergencies, but all the time. The President’s oath to obey the law is just one of his duties, and is subject to exigent circumstances thaty may exist permanently.
He also points out, as if needed, that the MSM is not covering this.
Can any FDLers be tempted?:
Appreciate the heads up.
I just called Steny’s office. I told the woman that answered that if Steny wanted me to contribute to a primary opponent against him in 2008, he was doing a terrific job. Then I asked if she wanted my name and phone number. She said she “no” she didn’t need it.
I was on hold for awhile, so I don’t think that I was the only one calling Steny today.
The time to end the War is now. Let us stand up to the liars now. Peace does indeed take courage. Peace is always honorable. Let us take back our language and our liberty now! Let us take to the streets and bring our troops home. Silence equals consent!
In terms of war, the two Democratic front runners do not inspire confidence or fortitude.
Terrific ad.
I’ll be at work when my local rally is happening, but I called my rep (Pryce-R) and told her no funds without timelines, or not to pass a supplemental at all.
Also emailed my Senators this morning, same sentiments.
OT – New Froomkin
At this point, it’s really difficult not to scream obscenities into the phone to every democrat that would cave in. Since when is caving in a negotiating tactic?
TJ @ 25
That has been the problem with the dems for quite some time now.
I sent faxes to my representatives. Sometimes I think that’s better than phone calls.
I am a member of my County Democratic Committee and we are involved in my town’s local council elections which happen Tuesday the 8th. There is a candidate forum this evening which I am committed to attending and can’t attend a rally.
I will certainly catch up on all the happenings via the internets.
Wonder why Bushie didn’t sign the funding legislation and then do his “signing statement” trick voiding the troop withdrawals? Has he lost his nerve? Would that have made him more vulnerable to impeachment?
I’m for just tweaking the bill a little and sending it back. Let him veto it again. and again. September comes soon.
“The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.” Thomas Jefferson
Marilyn In Texas @ 28
Agreed. Where in Texas?
I’m at work listening to CSPAN (don’t tell my boss) and I am amazed at how strong the anti-war/anti-repuglican sentiment is at the moment. In the past I’ve really wondered at the high percentage of right wing callers on the various CSPAN lines but right now things have totally swung in the other direction. Perhaps a glimmer of hope?
Pachacutec @
9
Yupper.
Marilyn – I say move the date one week sooner, and sooner again if he vetoes again. The president should see that the more he vetoes, the less he gets.
Dems don’t back down. It’s Bush’s war. You have presented him with a bill that funds the troops. He wants to get the upper hand. Don’t compromise. Let him sit on it and spin for awhile. Repubs who vote to continue the war do not speak for the American people. Let them live with that. Keep throwing the ball back at him. When you meet with him, just smile and hang tough. If you back down, the American people will equate that with legitimately-elected presidents who concede to soon…Make him agree to the Katrina and veteran’s language.
RealWorld @ 30
Yup. Now if they would call their congresscritters, too!
By the way: I’ve heard that if the House fails to override, the bill is dead — is that so?
Good ad.
commenter on youtube used the surrender word. so here is the logic police:
McCain (re Reid on TDS): If we’ve lost, who won?
My reply: If we surrender, who are we surrendering to?
anyone?
Marilyn In Texas @ 28
No changes to the bill, it’s fine the way it is. The Democrats should send it again and again and again.
Rep. Shimkus loves the Cubs…Uses silly Baseball analogy about the Iraq War
No more war forever!
No more war
No more
No
Jane, Round up a CT reggae band… I think you have a hit! (again!)
do-si-do @ 35
“THE ENEMY” according to Georgie.
Edwards/Feingold 08?
Makes the ganglia twitch!
Great ad, and IT WORKS!
GO JRE! We need to stand up to Bush RIGHT NOW, not next month…
Someone has to say it, and that ad says it quite well. It is a wonderful way to utilize campaign money outside the loop.
OT Breaking News from ABCNEWS.com:
A TRAIN CARRYING TWO SOLID ROCKET BOOSTERS FOR THE SPACE SHUTTLE HAS PLUNGED INTO A SWAMPY AREA OF ALABAMA AFTER A BRIDGE COLLAPSED
Phoenix Woman @ 34
If the bill is dead, Bush and the Repubs killed funding for the troops. They will have to deal with that, won’t they.
The six Democrats (so far) who are voting against overriding the veto should ashamed of themselves (if not shamed by the country).
This isn’t a vote for the bill itself anymore. Now it is a vote for the authority of the Congress against the unchecked power of a reckless and recalcitrant president.
6 Dem NAYS so far and one Present?
A caller on CSpan just said his son is deployed from Texas, his son is telling him they are rushing “shit” (yes he said shit on CSpan) to the front lines that is breaking down and unreliable.
PW:
Yep–bill is dead if House can’t override. And Bush killed it. Right now the House is trying to revive it.
Biodun @
46
Why doesn’t Bush support the troops?
tbsa @ 45
Yes. The TX national guard is running out of equipment and its last shipments to Iraq included trucks and other equipment that had previously been “retired” to the yard.
Marilyn In Texas @
28
You mean cynically ignoring the law as opposed to cynically blaming Democrats for being cynical?
twolf1 @ 47
Because they are not a multi-national corporation or a rich crony.
Biodun @ 46
How many votes do we need?
Texas Betsy @
10
Reid has said that the next bill will hit the president’s desk in early July. that’s good strategy. Let the Blue Dogs discover that the politically astute thing to do is to stand up in opposition to the open-ended Iraq occupation.
Biodun @ 46
That is a good thing for the Dems right now, because it highlights that the Repubs and Bush are willing to cut off funding for the troops, Katrina, Veteran’s care, etc.
Is it possible that Hoyer is just a finger in the breeze? It seems inconceivable that Pelosi would allow him to float his “compromise” without her consent.
I’m convinced Madame Speaker is a master politician and doesn’t make a move without some kind of goal in mind. If this is a game of chess, she’s five moves ahead of Boehner, and already knows how to get to checkmate with Bush.
When the Congress sees the furious public outcry against Bush’s supposed compromise, she can turn around and say to Shrub, “See, it’s not the Congress, it’s the American people who expect us to withdraw from Iraq.”
Cozumel @
44
without know who it is voting, those votes are consistent with the original vote patterns.
OT regarding another story of interest:
(Written answers of fired U.S. attorneys to questions posed by Judiciary.)
http://judiciary.house.gov/Pri…..ection=534
Thom Hartmann pointed out today that the Iraq War was won in 2003 and there is no such thing as winning an “occupation” which is what we’re in now. The only endgame for an occupation is negotiating a political solution that’s acceptable by the majority of parties involved. So it’s leave or not leave, there is no win or lose.
7 Dems side with Bush .. and 1 votes present? .. WTF??? What a bunch of cowards.
Yeah I just love the way Chimpy says “micromanage” when actually he wants a blank check.
The Bill is dead. It’s okay. It gives ammo to the Dems.
mui @ 51
292 I believe.
Now seven Democrats, one present. Disgraceful.
Texas Betsy @ 50
Why does he hate America?
John Kerry has his take on the veto.
Go after the weak Senators.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/5/2/9256/89504
Veto override not passed
Edwards is beginning to attract my political attention.
puppethead @ 57
Nonsense! The contractors and the Iranians can win our occupation.
Dover Bitch @ 43
good point.
Is there a word for when someone completely perverts the entire English language? Anytime someone with an R after their name says “compromise” it means “but not me, you” “Bipartisan” means everyone votes Republican. etc.
withdrawal means surrender, etc etc etc. Partisanship means dems are not caving.
Send the same bill. Send the same message.
Just called my critters — among them a weak-spined Democrat (Salazar) who I’ve been hounding with regular phone calls to encourage him to do the right thing.
I’d kinda given up on calling my rep, Marilyn Muskrat, because she is so despicably in Bush’s pocket. But she barely won the last election, and Rove’s powerpoint presentation had her listed as someone who needed the GSA’s help to keep her seat, so I figured I’d go back to giving her an earful. She keeps sending out emails about how bipartisan she is (hahaha) so she knows she’s in trouble. If she ever votes against Bush, we’ll know the tide has truly turned…
Bill is dead…
SO the Progressive caucus voted to override the veto? Or nay?
Screw Chimpy. Just for that veto, Chimpy, we’ll impeach.
do-si-do @ 68
I believe the term you are looking for is “Orwellian”
RealWorld @ 30
More like a sea change.
But the MSM doesn’t want to cover it, because they are one of the primary reasons for the “mad as hell” indignation that finally loosened all those “liberal” tongues.
twolf1 @ 63
same answer
RawStory has another goodie.
Hours after 9/11 attacks, Rumsfeld allegedly said, ‘My interest is to hit Saddam’
TJ @ 32
Bingo!!!!!
Love it, yes, yes, yes.
Edwards is making me proud. He is proving to be a leader on the issues that are important to me. I gave him another $50 today for the ad.
kdh22 @
1
How dare you utter such language on this thread? *g*
Go wash your mouth young lady, er man, er, person … *g*
Dover Bitch @ 43
Like I said yeaterday, any Democrat who refuses to defy the veto should be targeted for replacementin the next election…
FYI: Edwards just sent out email asking for funds to pay to put this ad up all over D.C. Here’s the gist:
dakine01 @ 73
I believe the term you are looking for is “Orwellian”
OK, I knew firedogs had a word for perversion of words. thanks, I needed that.
Orwellian language drives me nuts!
(((((Jane)))))
mc at 54
Hi.
I got so steamed up, trying to contact Hoyer, that I came up with something different that others might want to try.
Since Hoyer has rendered himself virtually unreachable to all but his own small constituency, but Speaker Pelosi has no such firewalls in place, I sent HER an e-mail with a very pointed, pithy letter to Rep. Hoyer appended, and asked her if she would please see that my feelings were transmitted to Hoyer.
I also grumped to her about Hoyer’s lack of accessibility, while holding a position of leadership.
Thereby – killing 2 boids wid 1 stone – Pelosi ALSO gets reinforcement from my message.
A variation on the theme, but hopefully it’ll work. ;->
A list of today’s DINOs? PLEASE!
Texas Betsy @ 39
That would be Eastasia. We have always been at war with Eastasia.
Petrocelli @ 79
Lady I am…young, not so much. Please forgive me! Had a severe lapse in judgment.
*sucking on bar soap while typing*
JEP @ 80
I look forward to seeing the roll call. Seven (eight) Democrats without the spine to assert the co-equal authority of the Congress against a president who has expanded executive authority to a previously unimaginable extent.
Eight representatives who don’t deserve the job.
Adie, WTG! May I ask how you contacted the Speaker? number or email?
Lou Costello @ 84
Good idea.
Adie @ 83
Good on ya. Pelosi needs to get the message loud and clear.
puppethead @ 57
Yep. Calling it a “war” imvho gives it a weight that it never deserved.
Phoenix Woman @ 31
Not much time to read and write today.
But I want to hold hands with everyone and say:
– I wrote to my Congressman, Mike Thompson, asking him to stand up to the president and telling him JUST SEND THE FUNDING/TROOP WITHDRAWAL BILL BACK AGAN. We voted vor DEMS to change the course.
– I made dates to attend the MoveOn.org demonstration tonight at 5 P.M.
– I sent money to John Edwards for his AD and
– to John Kerry for his ACT BLUE effort with
– 10% for FDL
– I asked family and friends to the same.
Now, back to work!
John Casper @ 77
Before I go, just wanted to add my voice to this idea,it is a good one! Two or three vetoes down the road, and Bush will get the well-deserved rap as the real wrench in the works that is keeping funds from our troops.
John Murtha wouldn’t have said what Hoyer said.
Jacqrat, I’m in! thanks for the heads up…)
Hoyer’s office hung up the phone on me.
That is UNACCEPTABLE. Hoyer, you fucking fuckhole, you work for US, not vice versa. Your employees have no right to hang up on a citizen voicing his or her opinion on the people’s business.
If anyone decides to run a primary against Hoyer, they have my unconditional support.
Eureka Springs @ 88
e-mail. (I’m no good on phone, and HATE being put on hold)
Go to her name in the Congressional directory, & her page has separate forms for constituents, vs those contacting her in her capacity as Speaker.
http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW.shtml
btw, when I wrote “appended”, I actually meant Hoyer’s letter was printed separately within the text of the letter to Pelosi. I assume they’d be leery of actual “attachments” & potential for viruses.
Do you s’pose this is why Pelosi wanted Murtha instead of Hoyer?
Hope CREW and the folks at TPM who worked so hard to destroy Murtha’s bid for majority leader all take a long hard look in the mirror.
And hope they spend the next several hours on their knees, retching.
Blood, blood, blood – Iraqi, Afgani, American.
More blood and gore in Iraq – a proud legacy for CREW and those at TPM who were so eager to sink Murtha’s Majority Leader bid.
How many more Americans and Iraqis will die before the cold, dead hand of the DLC is dragged off the political table for a long overdue burial?
How long will the Democratic “leaders” ignore the putrefying flesh, the death, the gore, the bloating corpses, the flies?
How long will Steny Hoyer and the DLC serve as A*P*C’s fifth column, rather than as advocates for the freedom and security of Americans and the American people?
How many more Americans and Iraqis must die while Steny and his DLC cronies use their elected positions to serve A*P*C and a foreign power?
If this is not treason, let us come no closer.
Jacqrat @ 81
Just sent some cash.
No money for occupation. Bush refuses to end the occupation. He is planning to stay there forever.
If the pull-out timeline is eliminated, the Dems will be funding endless occupation and aggression. No compromise.
Here is the list:
Nay:
Barrow (D-GA)
Boren (D-OK)
Davis, Lincoln (D-TN)
Marshall (D-GA)
Matheson (D-UT)
McNulty (D-NY)
Taylor (D-MI)
Present:
Kucinich (D-OH)
Eureka Springs @ 95
Hi, ES! !!
If Edwards forgets to, may I take this opportunity to THANK YOU! and others who help get the message out, either by sending 5 or 10 to this, or calling their reps, or STINKY HOYER or Speaker Pelosi …
Thanks so very much. And thank you Jane and Christy and Pach and Trex and everyone for creating a space where we can all gather and become a powerful force. (save a tip for the FDL jar, is what I mean)
HR 1591.Making emergency supplemental appropriations for fiscal year ending September 30, 2007, and for other purposes
QUESTION: Passage, Objections of the President Not Withstanding
Roll call
Dover Bitch @ 102
What does Kucinich’s vote mean?
Hi Texas Betsy (at #29)
San Antonio
JEP @98 is on target. Despite all the hooflah against Murtha during talk of majority leader appointment, I was surprised some were willing to disregard his strongest asset – contempt for the Iraq War, over flaws that occurred decades ago.
Not to say Murtha didn’t have other skeletons in his closet, but in his case, I like to back Agenda, rather than Virtue.
Texas Betsy @ 105
Kucinich’s vote is an abstention. He probably voted that way because he is opposed to any funding period.
Texas Betsy @ 105
He doesn’t want to fund at all??
http://speaker.gov/blog/
here’s Nancy Pelosi’s “The Gavel” website blog address, can’t do anything right now,maybe it will open up for comments later.
Texas Betsy @ 105
It means that any thought I had of supporting him is gone.
Thanks very much for the list Dover.
Just sent a note to Senators Feinstein and Boxer (and my representative, Brad Sherman(I’m from California)and among other things, I wrote:
I’m writing to urge you to continue to stand up against the POTUS and his administration’s request for a “blank check” to continue their ridiculous waste of time, money and lives in the war in Iraq. Don’t give up. Don’t give in. Don’t give them what they want. I believe that our country has not only lost our moral standing in the eyes of the world, but also taken on an immense (what I call) collateral karma.
John Casper @ 112
Sure thing.
kdh22 @ 109
He thinks Dems should cut off funding for Chimpy’s little adventure. Tie the pursestrings and say nada.
How do ya like this for spin? AGHH!
Operation Falcon: A Trial Run for Political Detention?
In what may be another sign of worse times to come, only weeks before the midterm elections, the Department of Justice (DoJ) announced news of “Operation Falcon,” a massive federal-and-state police operation that swept up thousands of Americans identified as “the country’s most dangerous sex offenders and gang members and gang members from the streets.”
This marked the third time in two years that there has been a major mobilization of state and local police (acting under Federal marching orders) to track down, seize and arrest US citizens.
FALCON I
mui @ 115
I can go along with that.
Joan Baez got denied a chance to perform for vets at Walter Reed…
Mellencamp got her booked for a gig there, but someone “up the line” spotted her name and had a hissy fit.
The neocons are running scared.
mui @ 115
His idea of a “clean bill” is OUT OF IRAQ YESTERDAY. His position is that there is $$ in the pipeline to bring ‘em home now and anything other than that is unacceptable.
Don’t know how I feel about him. Photo negative of Chimp-in-Chief?
Good ad–simple, direct, heartfelt. Kudos to Edwards, and to Feingold for their firm stands on the veto.
Did all USAG’s go along with this?
Operation Falcon: A Trial Run for Political Detention?
In what may be another sign of worse times to come, only weeks before the midterm elections, the Department of Justice (DoJ) announced news of “Operation Falcon,” a massive federal-and-state police operation that swept up thousands of Americans identified as “the country’s most dangerous sex offenders and gang members and gang members from the streets.”
This marked the third time in two years that there has been a major mobilization of state and local police (acting under Federal marching orders) to track down, seize and arrest US citizens.
FALCON I
Hoyer’s been playing us all for fools since day one. The snake.
Have any of you read this?
http://youthinkleft.com/2007/0…..he-ground/
kdh22 @
86
LOL, much needed, the previous post got a little intense.
i was epu’d cuz it took a long time on dial-up to do it…..tried the fax route, didn’t work….sent to rep. charlie wilson to forward to rep. hoyer, and sent a letter to rep. pelosi
Dear Rep. Hoyer;
I live and vote in Athens, Ohio. I read that you are agreeing with Republicans on benchmarks instead of a pull-out date. This worries me…..The American People voted overwhelmingly last November to END THIS WAR.
That is a part of your job, to end the war. And as a leader in Congress, it is even more so.
A bill was sent to the president with funding, he vetoed it, that is his perogative. Providing benchmarks instead of a pull-out date is joining with the Republicans, and I can’t believe it is an option in your mind.
It isn’t in mine.
Sincerely,
http://www.salon.com/opinion/g…..index.html
via C&L
Glen has a wonderful piece up at Salon.
Mae, if you’re still with us please read it, this is how most of us feel.
TJ @ 111
Kucinich does not want to fund the occupation at all. He points out that the funds are already in the pipeline, because of last year’s budget for this year. He truly wants the war to end now by exercising the power of the purse; which is what his job says he should do.
Slightly off topic, but Obama seems to have a good start on pissing off the little people.
From ABC news.
Obama Campaign Takes Control of Candidate’s MySpace Page
Campaign Knocks Out Amateur Page Author in Fight for Online Voters
By JAKE TAPPER
May 2, 2007 —
Monday night, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., lost 160,000 friends.
To be precise, Obama lost 160,000 “friends,” the connections made on the social networking site MySpace.com. The Democratic presidential candidate was not rejected simultaneously by tens of thousands of Internet geeks.
Rather, Obama’s campaign wrested control of its candidate’s MySpace home page from Los Angeles paralegal Joe Anthony, who had been running it for free for more than two years.
As Obama has emerged as a serious contender for the Democratic presidential nomination, his campaign has shifted from grass roots to professional, from a campaign featuring the anarchy of volunteers to one marked by professional calculation.
And Anthony’s story is par for that course. Anthony is now, in his words, “absolutely heartbroken,” and no longer supporting Obama’s presidential run, and Obama is taking heat in the liberal blogosphere for his campaign’s decision. But the campaign now controls what its officials feel they need to control.
Adie @
83
Thanks for the tip: here’s my message to Nancy:
Hoyer can kiss my ass.
More & more, I’m thinking it a good idea for everyone to send a copy of their letters to Speaker Pelosi as well as their local Rep. & Hoyer.
http://www.house.gov/pelosi/contact/contact.html
Make sure she’s aware. Some of the Reps will just toss-em.
Her heart may be in the right place, but she needs a good hard shove also.
Think belt AND suspenders….. ;->
Kucinich is just pointing out the sheer hypocrisy of this entire debacle. While I would like to see the veto overridden, I also agree that this is so far beyond what it should have become, we are putting bandaids (more futile money-spending) on a dead horse (Iraqi democracy).
(How’s that for mixed cliches)
JeffinBerlin @ 127
excellent, excellent column!
dmac @ 126
Hey, me too. What’s up with that? Error message said
The ‘08 race will still be Gore/Thompson.
(and no, I don’t mean Tommy)
That said, I have much admiration for Edwards and would be quite comfortable with him leading the ticket if Gore really doesn’t run.
I’m sending money to support his ad as well.
Biodun @
70
Of course the fucking bill is dead.
I hate this goddam, fucking war!!!
nothing personal, Biodun…
Wow, Bush is outsourcing his job again to Bolten etal. to figure out how to get a bill through. He must have written one of those secret authorization memos for them to do HIS job.
Dover Bitch @ 102
Why did Kucinich vote ‘present’? (Oh, it was to insist on a stronger bill. OK.)
Texas Betsy @ 116
That’s why I call it “the GOP/Media Complex”.
LS @ 128
OK, I stand corrected.
sorry…dmoore @ 134
(continuing…)invalid address and I even double checked on her website. So, I’m going to copy it into a Word Doc and FAX it.
Can any of you computer wizards tell us why are faxes don’t work? Does it have anything to with the volume of emails being sent?
Kucinich is letting perfect be the enemy of good. He had his chance to make his statement on Iraq occupation funding when the bill was originally passed. His veto override vote wasn’t for funding, but for exerting congressional will over a rogue occupant in the presidency. Kucinich made a mistake here, choosing to make an ineffectual statement that helped Bush instead of being an effective legislator.
jackie @ 129
I hope Edwards’ whole staff is reading this, their latest team member, Joe Trippi, can attest to what happens when the netroots’ work gets hijacked by professional hypocrites.
puppethead @ 141
That’s what it sounds like here. (Then again, we are talking about the guy who brought visual aids to a radio debate and used his last presidential campaign as a way to meet women.)
puppethead @ 141
I suspect that if his were the only vote to tip the scales he might have voted differently.
Texas Betsy @
144
Hey Betsy, how’re you feeling today?
going to lie down a few minutes. back later
Leahy!
Subpoena for Rove emails today.
puppethead @ 141
Yep. Nancy has the best grasp on the negotiation of this thing. Up to this point, she hasn’t misstepped yet, not even the decision to back down on the leader position. She’s super smart and (don’t kill me for sounding sexist here) her gender and experience have taught her great lessons. Women have certain assets. Men have others. She’s in the perfect position. In fact, I’ll bet if you ask her, she was born for this current role that she occupies.
Masterful negotiation and intelligent compromise with a heavy, heavy dose of WISDOM…that’s Nancy.
less pain, but i’ve been dizzy all day. not sure why. going to try a nap before (or possibly instead of) my Hebrew school class
Texas Betsy @ 146
Take care, Betsy. Let us know when you’re back up and around the lake.
Texas Betsy @
149
Please call your Doctor about any unusual side effects, they should keep a record of that.
Georgesimian @
13
Yep! Wear him down. He can only hold his breath for so long.
brendon at 130
dandy letter!
here’s mine, fwiw:
far better, tho, if each person uses his/her own words. Message: YES, we are real individual voters out here, and we.are.hurt/disappointed/disgusted/angry!
AND, as activists, we represent many more who feel the same; they may not have the time or oomph to write but we all vote. Oh, and have a nice day….. heh.
(translation: letters are far more effective if you remain respectful, but that doesn’t keep you from holding a sharp stick – ya don’t even have to mention it; they’ll see it. ;->)
One of the reasons I really like Dennis Kucinich is because he has stood up against this war, the Patriot Act etc, right from the very beginning and he has not stood down.
He has detailed a plan to get us out of Iraq, he has detailed plans for health care etc, he is an environmentalist and he wants to create a Dept of Peace etc.
We have seen what pure ‘politics’ has done to this country, it has come very close to destroying it. Now is the time to take a different path….
If the president had followed normal budget and appropriations procedures, he wouldn’t need an emergency supplemental bill. If the president had accepted the bill sent to him, he would have all the money he’d asked for to fund his war.
He did neither, and has only himself to blame for this budgetting failure.
(He also has only himself to blame for the war itself, but that’s a different rant .)
Phoenix Woman @ 143
Kucinich voted against the bill in the first place, so at least Present is a move in the right direction.
On the other hand, these five Reps. voted no and then voted in favor of the override:
It seems clear that at least some of them voted no initially because they are opposed to any funding. But they still voted to support the Democratic Congress.
yellowsnapdragon @
147
What took so long? They’ll be long gone by now.
Boner on CNN – We need a clean bill, we need to fund the troops… common ground… yadda yadda yadda… I’m an ass…
Letter I am working on for Speaker Pelosi.
http://www.speaker.gov/contact
Any suggestions would be appreciated..
Edwards/Feingold is a presidential campaign I could support with enthusiasm.
Texas Betsy @ 144
Perhaps. But I think Kucinich is one of the few with a perfect record of never voting For this War or any funding of same.
I e-mailed Waxman and said that I was fine with keep sending him bills with timelines and letting Shrub veto them, because after a while everyone but the hardcore GOoPers will see that his idea of ’supporting the troops’ is ’sending them to Iraq until they die’.
I also said that I hoped they were rethinking having Hoyer in a position of party authority.
I was polite – I like Big Hank’s work.
pelosi/reid on cnn now…
How do we apply pressure to Hoyer today?
snowbird42 @
12
Second only to Speaker Pelosi (as third in line) in the White House, or reelecting President Gore, John Edwards will have my full support. In a perfect world Bush & Cheney will be perp walked out of office sooner than later and the entire world could join Americans in a planet wide Snoopy Dance. ;~)
Hi. everybody=
What is Hoyer’s problem with the “short leash” proposal?
Yyyyeeaahh!!!! Peace.
Georgesimian @
14
Kenny Vanka and Jerry Seinfeld: A meal for an Armani suit, Vanka orders soup and wants a rain check for the meal.
In the end, the soup is the meal.
Funding is funding; the money’s there but the wrangling needs to be done so Bush and Cheney can score fear points with their demented base.
Listening to Pelosi and Reid’s statements after the meeting with Bush…
Past time for the Democratic leadership to say that Democrats are committed to ending this war.
Time to say that Democrats are united in commitment to end this occupation of Iraq so America can once again focus on the safety and needs of its citizens.
War is currently “forever” because the MIC (military-industrial complex) wants it to be.
Making money off war is easy; almost everything involved is a big ticket item with obscene profit margins.
Just take your average, everyday bombing raid.
First, millions of dollars of munitions are detonated, which must then be replaced. Then millions of dollars of buildings are destroyed, which will then be replaced.
Finding profits in “peace” isn’t as simple.
But, just imagine if we put the same energy and money into alternative energy, better schools, improving the power grid and infrastructure over the last four years how much further along as a country we would be.
What a shame the above paragraph reads like pie in the sky.
yellowsnapdragon @
147
Leahy!
Subpoena for Rove emails today.
from the article:
“Attached please find a subpoena compelling the Department by May 15 to produce any and all emails and attachments to emails to, from, or copied to Karl Rove related to the Committee’s investigation into the preservation of prosecutorial independence and the Department of Justice’s politicization of the hiring and firing and decision-making of United States Attorneys, from any (1) White House account, (2) Republican National Committee account, or (3) other account, in the possession, custody or control of the Department of Justice,” Leahy said in a letter to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales.
(my bold)
what about the gwb43 account?
(and the mcrovemasterrapper@fatpastyrepub.org account)
yellowsnapdragon @ 147
Woot!
kirk murphy @ 99
I agree 100%, Murtha isn’t perfect but he wants the best for the troops.
OT: Pentagon Press Conference Walter Reed
Cspan3
I like pie
Can we insert in a troop funding bill, the provision that no US-contracted company is ever allowed to make a profit from war? That might bring things to a screeching halt.
Eureka Springs @ 174
Mmmmm, Biscuits, UmmmHummmm.
Hey! All you faxers & phoners who couldn’t get through, I wouldn’t give up, even tho this vote is finished.
Let them know your feelings! Be respectful, but don’t hold back. Follow through to make sure they know you’re watching, & will remember.
Tips on getting through to Hoyer & Pelosi are at my 83, 97 & 131.
(apologies. my friends call me Columbo sometimes, because there’s always just one more thing that occurs, sigh)
Keep howling, dawgs!
Make it clear – we won’t go away – we’re watching just as closely as dumWa’s cameras ;->
matt @ 168
In the Federal Government, funding IS NOT funding, and the money ISN’T there unless and until Congress authorizes it. There are 13 different pools of funds and none of those pools shares water with any of the others.
The pools are set up by 13 appropriation bills, and while some departments are lumped together in these bills, Defense has always had its’ own.
The Defense appropriation bill for 2007 was passed in August of 2006. The President did not ask for funds for Iraq in that bill. If I were Congress, I’d just drop the supplemental funding entirely, with the reason that the President wouldn’t have vetoed it if it was really needed…
Bil @ 161
hints of Nader, but with more common sense?
from OH. never thot I’d say that. but he has grown since disasterous stint as CLE mayor, just as dubya has shrunk….
RonD @ 166
oh I dunno – mr. brat has always thought he was a good ole boy rethug pretending to be a democrat.
New Thread
Adie @ 177
You can get through to Hoyer by putting in a zip code (on his site) from his district. If you need a full address google the zip code and use whatever address comes up. It isn’t the most straight forward way of doing it but the message will get through.
FYI, New York City Thread
I am so proud of Nancy Pelosi! The best Speaker we’ve had in 50 years. Now I can see why she would like to have had Murtha as Majority Leader. Hoyer is a snake…a tool of the NeoCons.
Adie@ 179
“hints of Nader, but with more common sense?
from OH. never thot I’d say that. but he has grown since disasterous stint as CLE mayor, just as dubya has shrunk….
Maybe, but common sense doesn’t get you elected I guess. I saw Nader in 2000, looked like an accountant on his way down. Saw Kucinich with Marianne Williamson in Oakland in 2004 right after the election, he was Fantastic, they both were. I’m hoping he gets the job he is perfect for, the First Cabinet Level Secretary of Peace.
What a grand notion BRISINGAMEN @ 178, and so beautifully simple…..
“If Bush really needed the money he wouldn’t have vetoed it!” — not the WH pathetically circular, but elegantly elliptical.
UPDATE: I misrepresented Rep. Taylor — MS, not MI (stupid state codes).
Eureka Springs @ 174
I LOVE pie!
Mary at 182 true enuf…
But, if you send thru Pelosi, you could get a valuable two-fer. No joke. She ought to be made aware, somehow, of the reaction to what Hoyer’s done. It’ll help her be stronger. If only sent to him, it’ll be tossed, and no one’s the wiser for it. eh?
i sent a copy of the Major General Eaton’s letter to rep pelosi
http://speaker.house.gov/contact/
Adie,
Probably best to do it both ways since depending on Pelosi’s office to forward the info is not certain. It is not that they wouldn’t want to but some of the emails may not make it through.
kirk murphy @
99
Amen, brother.
my endless war
a duet Shrub and Pork Chop Boy (Back up by the Goopers)and apologies to Lionel Richie
my war,
Theres only you in my life
The only thing thats bright
My first war,
Youre every breath that I take
Youre every step I make
And i
(i-i-i-i-i)
I want to share
All my love with you
Nothing else will do…
And your bombs
Your bomb, your bombs
They tell me how much distraction
Ooh yes, you will always be
My endless war
Two legacies,
Two legacies that beat as one
Our careers are just winding down
Forever
(ohhhhhh)
Our faux courage and denial
I cant resist your armenents
And war
Oh, war
Ill be a fool
For you,
Im sure
You know I dont mind
Oh, you know I dont mind
cause you,
You mean the world to me
Oh
I know
I know
Ive found in you
My endless war
Oooh-woow
Boom, boom
Boom, boom, boom, boom, booom
Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom
Oooh, and war
Oh, war
Ill be that fool
For you,
Im sure
You know I dont mind
Oh you know-
I dont mind
And, yes
Youll be the only one
cause no one can deny
This love I have inside
And Ill give it all to you
My war
My war, my war
My endless war
John Casper @
91
A war requires combatants and once we took out Saddam and his Baathist regime there was no more need to be there, even considering the stupidity and illegality of going that far. So, after that it was just occupation and setting up the next dictatorship who will give us the oil we want when we want it and at the price we want it … forever. That last part hasn’t happened yet, so we’re still there…occupying (waiting really, and dying).
Since the Republicans always refer to themselves and to Bush when they say “America”, I’m assuming that when they way ‘we lose’ or ‘America loses’ that what they really mean is they the Republicans lose. And that is something they’ll fight tooth and nail, no matter how many innocents have to die and no matter how much money (raised from the middle-class of America) has to be wasted.
I just gave $50 to the Edwards ad fund and sent emails to all my Senators and Representatives (boy do I feel better).
I will be extremely upset if the Democrats give an inch to Bush on this. Bush has got to be stopped in his tracks and that smug looked wiped from his face. It’s time for him to realize who the boss really is and it isn’t him or Cheney. If the Dems don’t go 100% on the offensive over this they will never live it down.
NO COMPROMISE!
Brisingamen @
178
Of course he doesn’t need the money! The fact that there are black portions of the budget that are hidden from everyone and that money is continually thrown at contractors like Blackwater, Titan, CACI, and the Pentagon itself, it’s evident that there is more than enough money to be had.
That said, why aren’t Democrats pointing out that the equipment the armed forces are forced to use is sub-standard and insufficient?
This never was about the money or Bush never would have faced the chance of money actually stopping.
I keep seeing Edwards do things I really respect… but then I think…where has he been? It is going to be time to elect a president again soon… am I being played by Edwards? If not then where has he been these past few YEARS?
My letter to the yellow-chested Barrow bird, native to Georgia:
“First, let me tell you I voted for you in November. I am currently hoping another Democrat runs against you in the 2008 in the primary and I WILL be voting for anyone who opposes you because you are not representing the people of your district.
Today you voted against overriding the president’s veto on the bill that would have supported our troops (I’m an Army Vet) and set a timetable for withdraw, which reflects the majority will of the PEOPLE of the United States. Your cowardice has been noted, and the people of your district and the United States are tired of Congress appeasing the president rather than serving their will.
The act of standing up to a dictator takes courage, which is what our military has done. I ask that you, if you really believe your ’support the troops’ graphic on this page, that you exhibit the same kind of courage politically that we ask our service members to display every day as they wear the uniform. Take a stand against a needless war. Take a stand and tell the president no more blank checks. And stand with your fellow Democrats, because if you vote against the will of the people, you might as well be a Republican.”
Perhaps a little harsh, but I’m pissed.
Kucinich insists there is enough money in the pipeline to bring the troops home. Now. He will not back a bill that posits benchmarks w/o dates certain or consequences. All this dancing around w/ Bush is ridiculous . The dems are in a take it or leave it position. The public supports a date certain but the dem leadership will not stand fast. Kucinich has proposed the removal of all US troops asap to be replaced by a regional force after consultation w/ Iraq and all its’ neighbors. In the end this will be what happens, anyway, whether 6 months or 2 years and 6 months from now. The only difference is the longer it is put off, the more death and destruction.
I too believe that Democrats should keep pounding away at President Bush, to put a stop to this insane occupation of Iraq and bring our troops home.
Therefore, one idea on what Democrats might include in the next Iraqi Occupation spending bill:
Link the withdrawal of our troops from Iraq with the Iraqi legislature passing the Iraqi Oil Law. And as soon as the Oil Law is passed, our forces will have six months in which to leave Iraq.
I believe this will box Bush and Cheney into a corner.
Will they veto a bill that provides funding for our continued occupation of Iraq, and which also prods the Iraqi legislature into passing the Oil Law, the one law in occupied Iraq that is the top priority of the Bush administration and all the Western oil companies intent upon reaping Iraqi oil profits for decades to come?
On the other hand, if they don’t veto this next spending bill, then I bet the Iraqi legislature will convene immediately and pass the much-desired-by Bush and Cheney Oil Law, since passage will be directly linked to the promise that all U.S. forces will be gone from their homeland in six months time, which is what a vast majority of Iraqis desire.
Anyway, I believe Democrats should give this a shot. I know it’s a gamble. But all participants will be gambling, including the Western oil companies (and their Bush administration front) that once our forces are gone from Iraq, the Iraqi Oil Law will still be in effect and honored by whatever Iraqi government is in place. Of course, the Iraqis (once our troops are gone) might decide to scrap the Bush/Cheney-pushed Oil Law and contract elsewhere.
Unless, of course, the Bush/Cheney plan for Iraq’s oil wealth is to get the Oil Law in place and keep our soldiers in Iraq to make sure the Oil Law is honored, for many, many, many years to come.
If this is the case, then I’d like to see Bush and Cheney veto a spending bill with this stipulation in it linking the Oil Law with our departure, and explain what they are really doing and what their real plans are for Iraq.
Thus, this provision would back Bush and Cheney into a corner. Either they’d have to put up or shut up.