Okay, so maybe it's too early to be thinking about a Democratic President, but David Brooks, William F. Buckley, Robert Novak, Glenn Greenwald, Christy, and, well, me are all predicting a bleak future for a Grasping Old Party that can't get out from under its many epic disasters mistakes. The Iraqupation is having roughly the same effect on Rebubblican candidate recruiting as it is on military recruiting (and the opposite effect on al Qaeda recruiting), so unless the war ends before the election, or the Republicans start running on the Harry Reid The-War-Is-lost-And-I-Will-Get-Us-Out platform (don't count on it), I don't think it's too premature to start thinking about what comes next.
That is to say, after five or six years as a purely oppositional entity, the liberal blogosphere could very well find itself on the same side of the ideological fence as the White House. How will we handle it? Will we cover for our leaders even when they're wrong, or will we hold their feet to the fire to try to keep them honest?
Jonathan Chait believes that we desire nothing more than to emulate the conservative message machine (emphasis added):
The notion that political punditry ought to, or even can, be constrained by intellectual honesty is deeply alien to the netroots. They have absorbed essentially the same critique of the intelligentsia that the right has been making for decades. In the conservative imagination, journalists, academics, and technocrats are liberal ideologues masquerading as dispassionate professionals. Those who claim to be detached from the political struggle are unaware of their biases, or hiding them.
(…)
The prevailing sentiment here, however, is not a distrust of pointy heads. Rather, it's a belief that political discourse ought to be judged solely by its real-world effects. The netroots consider the notion of pursuing truth for its own sake nonsensical. Their interest in ideas, and facts, is purely instrumental.
….To [Salon's Joan] Walsh and other journalists, the relevant metric is true versus untrue. To an activist, the relevant metric is politically helpful versus politically unhelpful.
There is a term for this sort of political discourse: propaganda. The word has a bad odor, but it is not necessarily a bad thing. Propaganda is often true, and it can be deployed on behalf of a worthy cause (say, the fight against Nazism in World War II). Still, propaganda should not be confused with intellectual inquiry. Propagandists do not follow their logic wherever it may lead them; they are not interested in originality. Propaganda is an attempt to marshal arguments in order to create a specific real-world result–to win a political war.
I think I may have missed a memo somewhere. Are we rabidly ideological? Absolutely. But propagandists unconcerned about intellectual honesty? Um, no; I think Chait has us confused with someone else – most of the big-name (and smaller-name) liberal bloggers I know of are actually pretty scrupulous, at least as far as my poor biased lefty brain can tell. It's kind of our brand.
I would hope that if when the Democrats retake the White House and consolidate their Congressional majorities, we will be just as intolerant of lawlessness and unaccountability in our own party as in the Republican Party. Indeed, not only could we then tell Chait to go suck eggs, but the occasional friendly kick in the pants may even save the Democrats from the fatal complacency and inertia which loosened their decades-long grip on Congress back in the 1980s. Perhaps if the blogosphere had started thirty years earlier, the "Republican Revolution" would never have happened.
But my biggest worry is that a Democratic President might decide that because BushCo. has screwed the country over so badly, they need to make use of some of those special Unitary Executive Powers that Dubya grabbed for himself, but they promise to give them right back when everything's fixed. While a part of me would get a kick out of that, I really do want the Democrats to be the party that plays by the rules and respects the Constitution and the rule of law.
What will make this keep-'em-honest effort especially tricky is that the Republicans and media will supply a neverending stream of fake Democratic screwups, as we have seen already with the bogus attacks on Pelosi and Reid. So not only will we have to keep the Democrats honest, but we will also have to distinguish between false charges which must be rebutted, and real charges which require words and action on our part. The good news is, we'll have two years of practice under our belts before President ObamaClintonEdwardsGore takes office, and we're much smarter than the wingnuts. Hell, I bet the MyDD guys have it all figured out already.
Related posts:
- Dana Milbank’s 750 Word Quota and the Future of Progressive Activism
- Late Night Presents: Harry vs. Harry in a Lightweight Bout for the Future of the Public Option
- Supreme Court: By Fighting Lost Battle, GOP Sets Stage for Future Wars
- The Limbaugh Party: Racist Through and Through
- Pres. Clinton: Your legacy on gay issues is about the future, not the past





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WHat’s up Eli?
Hiya, TM!
Shot any martinis for me yet?
Hey Eli!
No, sorry – I haven’t been around any. There’s a slight chance I might have an opportunity next month, though.
Can we at least get pledges from the Dems that they won’t go on shows like AI and do little Ole and Lena sketches? Guess this was what he was savin’ from the WH Corres. dinner.
Hiya, ccm!
Evening, Eli!
Had a conversation with a friend of mine today, and I told him that it was as much an insider/outsider thing as it was a liberal/conservative thing. I made the analogy of the (mostly) clueless people who work in corporate headquarters and how they get so myopic and attached to their power.
Think I heard that song in a movie once… can’t quite recall the title.
Hiya, Loo Hoo!
Twisted Martini @ 9
I think that’s true, and I have no doubt that if a Democratic president sells us out to corporate interests (i.e., Net Neutrality maybe), we will not sit still for it.
^ That would be a lot funnier if the video didn’t include clips from the movie.
My timing is off today.
The Democrats, if they’re not careful, will be snookered by the Republicans and left holding the bag. On a variety of issues. Most glaringly, Iraq. And the whole Mideast debacle. My party might actually get to preside over the last world war.
Eli, I hope you forgive me but I have to go a little off topic a little too soon…my sincere apologies but this can’t be buried and has to be examined so the democrats are prepared for the inevitable;
the recourse the boyking already told us he would do if he can’t get what he wants in a funding bill is more frightening then anyone has mentioned and I’m surprised nobody picked up on it
he said;
“I will take funding from other programs”
yes, he said that, yes, that means social security, yes that means the pension insurance funds, veterans benefits
yes, that’s what it means
Pat Buchanon thinks he’s a smart cookie. His job is to keep knocking Dems no matter what and then he thinks it wiol open the door for him to slip in and run in 2008. Isn’t there anything we can shut his mouth with and knock him off the air??
perris @ 14
Well, that’s perfectly in character, really.
Eli says:
Well, let’s see: Adam Clayton Powell was a Dem congressman expelled by a Democratic controlled house before winning his seat back. And Alcee Hastings was impeached by a Dem House and Convicted by a Dem Senate so it’s not like it hasn’t happened before.
eli!
i am very happy today to be able to say “you were right and i was wrong”.
i really thought bush would take the money for his stupid endless war/occupation. i thought he’d be nuts to veto a funding bill with such large loopholes for him to use.
i was wrong! yeah!
dakine01 @ 17
Well, let’s see: Adam Clayton Powell was a Dem congressman expelled by a Democratic controlled house before winning his seat back. And Alcee Hastings was impeached by a Dem House and Convicted by a Dem Senate so it’s not like it hasn’t happened before.
That’s what I’m talkin’ about. “We’re Democrats – we don’t tolerate that sort of activity.”
Liberals are just as susceptible to emotional excess as the right is. And I would expect the corporate media to goad us on in that direction.
But we ought not to count our eggs just yet. Let’s win elections first ok?
selise @ 18
Heh. And now it becomes a game of chicken. The troops need money eventually, so who blinks first?
If there is no external accountability mechanism like the blogosphere, then the Dems can become just as corrupted by their power as the Gambinos. If we help elect more outsiders like Jon Tester, they will be more connected to their roots and less likely to get poisoned.
Eli @ 21
2 months of funding at a time. then it’s up to everyone (especially us) to convince enough republicans to vote to end the war and override a veto.
Of course,Perris, that’s if you think Social Security money is still there.
Eli @ 21
That’s right. A blame game of sorts. The Dems were going to do such and such, so I had to do this. And the reverse.
perris @
14
And the moment he does you can kiss the GOP goodbye for a VERY long time.
Twisted Martini @ 22
Not can, *will*. I have no doubt of it.
Public election financing would help – I think a lot of the corruption is a result of the perpetual scramble for campaign funds.
Oh Honestly! We’re bigger than that!
noen @ 26
And the moment he does you can kiss the GOP goodbye for a VERY long time.
Well, okay, but I’ll have to get my lips bleached afterwards.
noen @ 26
Legally — can he do that? I mean I know the law doesn’t mean anything to these people, but is it within the law?
ccmask @
24
I forget which Republic admin started raiding the fund first but I’m thinking it was Nixon. Which is why it’s just a bunch of pieces of paper/IOUs in a file cabinet in the chimpenfuhrer’s words.
Texas Betsy @ 30
He’ll just declare that it’s legal. He’s the decider ya know.
Eli @ 21
nancy has the upper hand and needs to push the “why are you refusing to give the funding for the troops we are providing?”
“why are you under the impression you are the sole “decider” how this engagement is prosecuted, you are not..you work for the American people, they are not happy at all with your supposed military knowledge and they are sure we need a differant direction”
and;
“the American people elected a new congress to procide the military expertise you have lacked.
it is our sworn obligation to exact that expertise and unlike some who don’t take their oath defending our constitution seriously, we intend to fullfill our oath of office”
stuff like that
noen @ 26
You hit the nail on the head. time for a bong.
Well, Oprah on Larry King, just nominated Obama. She said she has nothing against Hillary and likes her very much, but she is for Obama. How big is Oprah’s following???
ccmask @ 24
he will borrow money from future revenue, just as he has borrowed everything and given it to his pals
the democrats have to SLAM HIM DOWN for making this bizzare claim
Eli @ 16
perris @ 14
So it means that rather than fund this through…Hmmm!…deficit spending (hence passing on the trillion bucks for the war to our progeny to worry about)…he will attempt to funnel it out of programs leaving them bankrupt…for US to deal with.
I hate to say this…but THAT sounds like the more honest deal. There is no more hocus-pocus…smoke-and-mirrors.
Here’s the Democratic Congresses response. “You want the money but don’t want timetables? You are going to ILLEGALLY AND UNCONSTITUTIONALLY threaten already mandated programs approved by Congress? Here’s what we will offer:
1) Every two months you will get a spending authorization. It will be pay-as-you-go. No more hiding this in a deficit.
2) The war costs will be paid for by a special tax charged against…not retirees, not children and mothers that need hospitalization, not veterans, not the poorest and weakest, not the middle class, not students who need educations.
The taxes to pay for this war will come from those that are profitting from it…THE OIL COMPANIES making absurd profits, the war profiteers who manufacture the weapons and machinery of combat, the wealthiest five percent.
They will pay for this war, and we will insure that they will pay until ALL the costs of this war are paid back!”
ccmask @ 35
Endorsed? Her following is HUGE.
Evening folks. If Bush robs other programs to fund his war, he will face a Congress that *can and will* override his veto power.
I totally agree about public funding of elections. Levels the playing field in a way that scares the living shit out of the insiders.
bill @ 39
Thank you. That was the answer I was looking for.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 13
The Iraq war belongs to the republic party. It is the republics who want this war to continue in perpetuity. All the spin to the contrary isn’t going to change that fact.
Back on topic:
I think that if the pendulum swings our way again that, sure, there is a possibility that the blogosphere will be susceptible. But we should also remember that we are not living in the bubble that the DC pundocrats live in. It is their isolation from the realities of everyday folk that is their problem and they don’t even know it.
cinnamonape @ 37
VERY very nice, see, we can work it out for the democrats take forward…for instance I am pretty darned certain reid and pelosi’s aids read here at the lake because some of the stuff they’ve been releasing is very close to our wish list here at the lake
Twisted Martini @ 40
Oh, it would be fucking *huge*. It also sidesteps that whole “money is speech” bullshit.
tbsa @ 42
Yes. If the Republicans run on the George W. Bush I-Will-Keep-You-In-Iraq-Forever platform, they are toast. Period.
I’ve been thinking about the future, too, under a Democratic President and Congress. first I would like a chance to tell our leaders what we want – a turning back of all the absolutely evil changes made to our constitution – repeal of the Patriot Act, reaffirmation of the Geneva Convention – a systematic closing of all the rendition camps as well as Gitmo – a turning away from the “unitary executive” concept. In other words, first clean up the dirt Bush has left.
Then, a steering of this nation toward the environment problem, including alternative fuels, mandates on the auto industry to create autos that are not gas guzzlers.
Then, a serious, dispassionate look at health care under a single payer system.
Then, folding up and putting in storage this No Child Left Behind misnomer.
As to attitude toward the people, don’t treat us as morons who don’t understand what’s going on. Be open with the Congress; stop using executive privilege as to information, etc., when at all possible. Be truthful. Work at regaining the trust of the people and of other nations – it will take a long time.
Many many more initiatives. I didn’t have all my thoughts together when I started this comment. I would like to read what anyone wants to add to this. I will compile the list.
Just watched Countdown and couldn’t avoid listening to Bush announce his veto and call the Democrats names again. I’m tired of this.
I agree that it’s important for us to hold the Dems feet to the fire about renouncing Bush’s power grabs, and passing laws to cover all those “no law against it because it’s so obviously wrong” areas that Bush has exploited. I honestly don’t think that part will be too hard, because I believe all of our candidates are people who will listen to the professionals who say these things aren’t worth the cost, instead of think-tank ideologues who are sure they know better.
But in the longer term I think the harder fights will be public campaign financing and media reform. Those will be the routes by which we can save the national Dems from the danger of corporate-fed complacency, but it won’t be easy.
Twisted Martini @ 40
it’s the only way we can keep corporations from buying our law
let’s take this further;
now that the democrats hold the reigns and will get the majority of the money from big bussiness it seems there might be some republicans that will think public funding is a good idea
now that the money is going to go to the democrats a bill for government funding of campaigns might be easier to accomplish then we realize
You are a clever lad, Eli, and I truly enjoyed your post that slowly raises an eyebrow.
My kind of writing.
I cannot speak for anyone else, but my feeling is government is a mechanism to benefit the majority of people with certain pauses to protect certain minorities.
This is the fuel that powers our system, and any attempt to pervert it with money, (big pharma, big oil, NRA, tobacco, etc) short circuits the system. It does not matter if a
Republican or Democrat is assphukking America.
perris @ 44
Perris–
Cassie wants to know if she can borrow that for her letter to Congress, posted on her website.
Eli @ 45
You know that these weasel shits on both sides would find loopholes, they always do. Can you say 503b?
noen @ 43
Yes. And this kind of feedback is something that I don’t think they had the last time around. The collective netroots are harder to ignore than just a few letter-writing “little people”.
OT…
How come we never hear any Iraqis being interviewed about their country?
perris @ 44
Is this just a fantasy though? Would our real Dem leaders actually do this? I wonder, I really wonder.
Another ANTI-Science bushie flees the crime scene:
“Julie MacDonald’s reign of terror over the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is finally over,”
noen @ 43
Seems to me that the value of the blogosphere is what Al Gore called a marketplace of ideas. So long as access is available to the mass of people, it will function as a check in the fashion of the free press as originally described by the founders of our nation.
Jonathan Chait is, of course a graduate of the Marty Peretz School of Journalism,
otherwise known as The New Republic.
As are Charles Krauthammer, Mickey Kaus, Dana Millbank, Andrew Sullivan and Peter Beinart,
to name but a few of the glittering stars in the journalistic firmament which this fine seat of
civil, intellectual discourse has produced over the years.
Flush twice.
Raven, the devil is always in the details, but it seems to have worked in Arizona and elsewhere.
SanderO @ 54
Cause the press would have to bleep out ever single word before USA.
tbsa @ 42
Last time I checked many Dems voted to invade Iraq. Including my party’s front runner. And should the Iraq war bleed into a possible Democratic Administration beginning in 2009, then who’s war is it?
SanderO @ 54
They don’t control the oil so we can obviously discount anything they may say. After all, they weren’t willing to get rid of Saddam so how good can they be? /snark off
Marilyn, I agree completely, across the board.
OFG, thank you! We must never forget who the government is supposed to belong to.
Texas Betsy @ 51
anything I post here at the lake is for all firedogs to do as they wish…however I was quoting another firedog who was responding to my wish list, credit cinnamonape @ 37
perris @ 14
Then he’ll have to be impeached.
allan_in_upstate @ 58
You’re gonna have to break that one up with the toilet brush…
Twisted Martini @ 59
Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see it. I’m just a real cynic.
Oklahoma kiddo @
13
It’s gonna unravel before 2008.
-GSD
Texas Betsy @ 38
Well, fer sure. But, don’t you think she came off really bad in Moyer’s special about the media’s role in the build-up (and continues) of the War?
Was I the only one who hoped people who Worship her saw through the Fog Of War?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 61
Well, one big difference is that the Republicans continued to back the war to the hilt even *after* it became obvious to everyone that it’s a total clusterfuck…
allan_in_upstate @ 58
Break ‘em up with a plunger first.
-GSD
dmoore @ 69
Oh, that was cringemaking. I just wish it had been on a more widely-viewed network, but of course, that would be impossible – it’s a minor miracle it even showed up on PBS.
ga DAMN it, I want to go to bed but this thread is TOO MUCH INFORMATION AND TOO MUCH FUN!!
now STOP it soz I can doz
Eli @ 45
That’s another Republican “big lie” that we need to find better ways of knocking down. There are some court cases that support the “money=speech” concept, but the record is very mixed, so it’s by no means well-established. Perhaps, every time a wingnut claims “money=speech” as fact, it would help to point out that it’s much less settled legally than the right to abortion.
P.S. Eli,
I got EPU’ed on the last thread Allow me to cut and paste here. And I would like your input, if possible, which may not be if your demands of time are the same as mine:
I finally broke down and put up a post on my own blog that deals somewhat with this subject of the current sate of journalism. My primary reference was the Bill Moyers piece, “Buying the War”.
I know, I’m about a week behind the curve over here.
It’s a pretty good piece, I think, establishing the current pressures on the media. Granted, I did not go nearly far enough, but as is my habit, I tend to undersell and let the readers sort of fill in the blanks.
It is why I really like the blogosphere, at least the left 90%, where folks do not need to be spoonfed.
Anyway, I hope the lakers over here enjoy it, I intended to send it to the ladies of the lake for first crack, but I was so immensly proud of myself for actually getting back to blogging, I hit the publish button.
I hope the learned and involved people of the lake take the time to read it and add to it if it is worthy. Just click my name for the site, it is the top post.
Sorry for the blatant blogwhoring, but my posting is geting so rare, and fdler’s have been so encouraging to me, I just thought I would let folks know it’s out there.
Thanx.
For myself, abuse of power has no ideological boundaries.
If the ‘Left’ in future emulates what the ‘Right’ currently embodies, they will be treated with the same disdain and scorn by me…And perhaps even worse, for it is about the hypocrisy after all.
‘Set the example, or be the example’
perris @ 64
OK. It’s up. http://youthinkleft.com/2007/05/01/dear-congress/
ccmask @ 35
With all due respect for Oprah, she has been known to be wrong, and has had to retract her advocacy for I believe an author of a book? Sorry, I don’t remember which book or author.
Point is even Oprah can make a mistake. At this stage of the game, I personally have no choice. The verdict is still out in my mind.
I doubt most people are putting much stock in Oprah’s recommendations at this point. But what do I know???? Who knows, Oprah may change her mind too.
Checking it out now, OFG. You have the same template as my old blog…
Eli @ 72
Ya know (doncha?) that Moyers was a Baptist Preacha? So…maybe it was a miracle. But, nevertheless…people are still talking about his piece. (The Lord works in mysterious ways…I’ve heard.)
Texas Betsy @ 41
I was trying to clarify it on the earlier thread, Bush can’t arbitrarily divert funds! He can do it within DoD, but, he can not wave his wand over all congressionally approved funding! Let me reiterate, Shrub has authority to divert funds, intradepartmentally!, not, interdepartmentally!!!
Redshift @ 74
one of the most important things we need to do which addresses the “free speech” issue;
we need to rescind “personhood” for corporations
if a conglomerate wants to enjoy the corporate umbrella and “cone of protection” (forgive me maxwell smart) there is a trade
corporations are not people and should not enjoy “constitutional protection”
that’s etched for “the people”
we are a government “for the people and by the people”, we are NOT a government “for corporations and by corporations”, though that is the intention of the neo fascist movenemt, that is not the American concept of government and it is not a part of “the great experiment”
Time for Mr. Chait to write that one great novel he’s always thinking about. He has the fiction part down.
Eli @ 53
Let me tell you a story about bubbles.
Here in Minn I listen to MPR, on the morning interview show several months ago they had a couple of economists from the east coast. Don’t remember their names. But they blathered on and on until this local farmer called in. He complained to them that they were out of touch and he talked about how he had to turn his thermostat down to 56 degrees because he couldn’t afford to heat his house. They kind of just laughed it off and kept talking about how great the economy was doing blah blah blah…
I wanted to call these morons and ask them to look outside their condo windows and see if they saw any farmers growing food with their name on it. But no, these people will not get a clue until they go shopping and find empty shelves. “whaaaaa??? but but… the economy is doing so well.. what happened?”
That is how they will learn.
I blame my party for getting us into this Iraq thing every bit as much as I do the Republicans. And as to Democratic front runner Hillary Clinton, as far as war and the Middle East is concerned, I trust her far less than I am comfortable with.
Eli, nice post, but, it ignores the simplest and ugliest reality. As does this blog, time after time.
As do most blogs.
It ain’t ABOUT the rethugs.
It’s about the A*P*C’s, it’s about Corporate Americanism, it’s about munitions, it’s about the MIC and it’s about the have’s and have nots.
There is NO Dem running other than perhaps Kuch, Gravel, and MAYBE, a VERY couched maybe, Gore (he’s taken money from places I mistrust, so I don’t trust him like I trust Kuch).
And for the most part, the Dem’s are gonna wage war in the middle east, and claim the Islamofacists are gonna rape our wives, daughters and sisters. Just like the Rethuggery’s.
What manner of bullshit is this all? It’s in DIRECT opposition of the kind of blogging WE THE PEOPLE need to have . . . in order to take action on a LARGE scale, be it electoral, be it campaigning, be it life changing cuz you opened a window and shouted you won’t take it anymore.
The planet’s shot.
It’s overcrowed.
I’ts losing is fishery’s.
It’s losing it’s crop lands.
It’s losing it’s species, one by one, OUT of proportion to history’s annuals other than HUGE planet chanes. These are changes the human race have foisted upon itself.
Now, take them bullet points, and change this planet, for THIS COUNTRY!
Shot to hell, thru and thru.
And more woe on the way.
Someone stand up, and DO something.
Shilary is unelectable, and she’s a REthug.
So are most of the rest of them.
Obama wants to wage war, and keep options on the table for Iran. What fuckery is THIS crap?
Until this country’s people, person for person, figger this out, it’s a hopeless Big Brother Victory.
And THIS blog, is NOT singing the praises of the masses . . . it’s as elitist as any of the other corp pac’s.
Harumph. What fuckery, indeed.
Edited with *’s by Mod
ok, must sleep, must earn tomorrow, cannot earn if cannot sleep
g’night firedogs
Oklahoma kiddo @ 61
The war of the pResident who elected to continue it by his veto of a bill to add timetables. Also, the republics in congress who don’t have the balls to stand up against chimpco and override that veto. The dems are doing what they can to bring this clusterfuck to an end. The republics started this war based on steaming pack of lies, and have voted to continue this war time and again not the dems.
Perris and Cinnamonape — Got the attribution straghtened out.
Oilfieldguy @
75
OFG: Great post but may I sugest an update: The folks who were Knight Ridder are now McClatchey (sp?) but seem to be still doing the same level of investigation/b*llsh*t disinfectant.
ccmask @ 35
huge!
Nancy Pelosi asked for signatures expressing outrage that a good bill was vetoed-
http://www.dccc.org/action_cen…..ce_center/
What bullshit! If someone is lying or distorting the facts, I’ll criticize them, regardless of their politics. Of course, on second thought, Chait is no doubt just projecting. Repugs think that that kind of thing is what power is for, and about.
PeterK @ 92
If a spade is a spade, well….
Guiliani might have touble explaining this to the voters: from Raw Story Dirty Air Rudy
And then there is Lieberman. He’s still caucusing with the Dems. And there’s the DLC, huge supporters of attacking Iraq.
lolo @ 90
She would have to kill a kitten live on her show before her fans would waver in their support. Who knows? She is smart and can stick her thumb in the air and tell which way the wind is blowing too.
lolo @ 90
That is an amazing endorsement, well gang, let’s hop on the Obama Express..
Eli @ 79
Thanks Eli. I am a gear and hydraulics man. Today I used my yoyo and twine to drag a seventy thousand pound hunk of iron onto my trailer unaided.
With the benefit of a steering wheel, potholes and chains, and nothing else, my load is stringline staight and the weight is evenly distributed between twenty six tires.
I’m still learning this internet thingy.
CTuttle @ 93
A crooked politician is a crooked politician. If it’s a Dem, I might sigh a bit and ponder where the individual went wrong but other than that, get ‘em out of office and into the cell.
Just a bit of Civics 1A “The Constitution Of The United States: Article. I. Section. 1.
All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.
….Section. 9.
No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.
Section. 7.
All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.
Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States: If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it.If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law.
Every Order, Resolution, or Vote to which the Concurrence of the Senate and House of Representatives may be necessary (except on a question of Adjournment) shall be presented to the President of the United States; and before the Same shall take Effect, shall be approved by him, or being disapproved by him, shall be repassed by two thirds of the Senate and House of Representatives, according to the Rules and Limitations prescribed in the Case of a Bill.
Section. 8.
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
Bush CANNOT CONSTITUTIONALLY DRAW MONEYS FROM OTHER SOURCES. This is one of the powers of Congress. If a President can shift moneys between programs without the consent of Congress then there is no such need for spending bills, appropriations, or, in fact a Congress at all.
We have a DICTATOR, a TYRANT, a DESPOT!
The Constitution specifically states that it is Congress that issues appropriations bills. And contrary to Bush, they are clearly empowered to establish “Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces”.
There is something else in the Constitution about not allowing anyone to be a king! About the right to habeas corpus not being suspended except in time of invasion or insurrection! And about the President being bound to follow and protect the Constitution…not DESTROY IT!
Bush clearly is mad…he’s saying IMPEACH ME…challenging Congress to prevent him from becoming dictator.
huge!
That is an amazing endorsement, well gang, let’s hop on the Obama Express..
Yea, and we can hear all about god and prayer and faith and all that good stuff, can’t wait.
DaKine@99, Shaka Bra!!! Amen!!!
Democrats. Stop the funding. Stop the dying. I want out of Iraq now. Oh… and let me say, I’m no centrist on this issue.
Kathryn in MA @ 92
I signed.
noen @ 96 says:
Not necessarily. I believe she caught quite a ration of sh*t on her web site after she did her show with Bill Orally and allowed him to talk about how wonderful he was in being against child abuse and predators and she didn’t call him on his statements about Shawn Hornbeck (the kid who was held captive for 3-4 years).
Kathryn in MA @ 91
Do you know where these emails go? The site doesn’t seem to say.
raven @ 101
That is an amazing endorsement, well gang, let’s hop on the Obama Express..
Yea, and we can hear all about god and prayer and faith and all that good stuff, can’t wait.
He’ll get over it…but I share your concern. Hell, I’m a Howard Dean fan
Oilfieldguy @ 98
Heh. It wasn’t meant to disparage; just an observation of coincidence. Blogger only has, like, five templates anyway…
CTuttle @ 102
Eh, howzit?
Texas Betsy @ 105
I wrote this:
I have a nephew who just returned from Afghanistan and another who will soon deploy to Iraq. I would really prefer that there was an end to this war very, very soon. Bush has no plan. More and more troops for how long? There will always be one more push. If Bush believes so much in war then he should encourage his daughters to join up. And a few other Republicans with military age kids better shut the heck up if they aren’t asking their kids to consider joining up and serving.
Eli @ 70
They’re stuck between the thirty percenters who are sold on Bush’s “victory” rhetoric. They can’t get majority support without turning against the war, but they can’t get majority Republican support if they do.
It’s the one instance where Bush’s insane stubbornness does some good. If they had a sane leader, he’d have already declared victory and gone home, taking a bit of a hit, but turning around the authoritarian followers in the movement and making the issue at least debatable. But since he can’t admit he’s wrong, the followers can’t give up until another Dear Leader tells them to, so they’re screwed.
(At least I hope that’s right!)
dakine01,
I noticed that myself. Clearly my post is lacking in many respects. Even tho’ Jane and Christy and even Mr. Smith have showered me with praise, I see what you see, all the things that are left out. I do not do updates tho’, this info is in the links.
cinnamonape @ 100
I don’t think he’s mad. I think he want to be impeached because he believes rightly or wrongly that his SCOTUS appointees will bail him out. And he may be right.
Cinnamonape@100, H/T for the lengthy cite, I knew it was delving into the constituitional waters, however, anybody did a true tally of the sheer amounts of cash sloshing around in DoD??? How about the Black funds??? CRS estimates funding into July, lets fund July and August, by Petraeus’s own estimates, we’ll be seeing results from the ’surge’ at that juncture!!!
perris @ 14
Hope I’m not repeating anything already upthread, but Bush cannot do that. The US doesn’t run on Enron accounting principles. He doesn’t have the authority. He probably doesn’t know enough about government to know he doesn’t have the authority. Who would execute that illegal order?
He’ll get over it…but I share your concern. Hell, I’m a Howard Dean fan
amen (:
raven @ 101
That is an amazing endorsement, well gang, let’s hop on the Obama Express..
Yea, and we can hear all about god and prayer and faith and all that good stuff, can’t wait.
Please? Sincere question. If I say The Lord works in mysterious ways, is this percieved as me telling you what to do or think? I really wanta know. Because I understand that communication is sender responsible, and on-line I have no access to non-verbal communication, I can’t tell. But, I really do wanna know.
Anyone else have something to say about the Down-Side of blog communication?
Redshift @ 111
Yep. That’s pretty much the general narrative of the linkfest at the start of the post: The war is killing them with the public at large, but opposition to the war is poison to the Republican base.
Unless Dubya drops the war, at which point they will all stop caring about it.
What’s being played in DC regarding the Iraq war, is politics. The horrible thing is that folks will die because of it. I want all those who voted to subject this nation to the horror in Iraq to take responsibility. Regardless of political party. I want the chips to fall right where they belong. To advocate otherwise would make me a gross hypocrite.
that’s a hilarious comment the tweaker makes about the “netroots” not being able to be honest about their leaders.
one thing that anyone with cognitive powers realizes the “netroots” are independents who are not represented by either party. we are often forced to settle for one due to both being bad, but one not enough. those from the other mental state do not understand anything but obedience to their leader.
now just because these rats are jumping ship, or “crawling ship” perhaps, they must find someone to blame and hate. the “netroots” is not a club, there are no members and it has a bias to total truth.
it will be fun to see who this person will choose to attack when it has no more support. if elections are fair in 2008, what do you think, maybe 350 demo’s and i’s in the house, and 55, maybe 60 senate d or i. remember all the resignations and suicides coming, as that is partially what I base my retarded guesstimate on.
too fucking bad that it will be a decade late for the world to recover from what they have done to it. good luck to all
noen @ 114
He has no idea how to ever change his mind. He only knows how to stay the course.
Oilfieldguy @ 112
Oh, I know the feeling. Even stuff that I fully intended to include gets left out because, well, I just plain forgot it.
I need to start writing outlines or something…
Crap. I just remembered that I forgot to eat today. Talk amongst yourselves. I will be back soon. Eli, thanks for the comment, I will respond.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 104
I hear ya, kiddo, I hear ya.
Say, does anyone know how to contact the moderator offline? I was overwrought earlier and wish to make amends.
I don’t think Bush has a mind to change in the first place.
noen @ 113
But SCOTUS has nothing to do with it, one exception tho, Roberts would preside over the Senate Trial (hearing?)!!!
Eli @ 118
My biggest fear is that GW will finally declare victory and the media will follow in lock step and sing his praises. But that won’t happen until Iraq passes that oil bill. That is what everyone is waiting for.
Eli @
27
And this is why it is so important that the bushie abuses be stopped. There are some good demos, but make no mistake, if given the unlimited powers that Dear Leader has tried to assume, they will abuse them. We have to stop it. now.
Bush reminds me of the kid who takes his ball and goes home if he loses.
do-si-do @ 125
Ask for a MOD to email you and then email them back. Perhaps it will be the mod you are looking for or else it will be one who can forward your apology.
Oilfieldguy @
113
Not a criticism. I applaud your willingness to do the writing. I’m a decent enough editor and able to pick but find the creativity needed to get the basic foundation of an idea extremely difficult (I was gonna say hard work but that phrase is pretty much lost forver now that the chimpenfuhrer complains about how he has to work so hard at hard work). :})
Oprah???! Oh for God’s sake people. I have nothing against the woman……but I have a lot against the cult of celebrity bullsh*t that pervades this country. Exactly what qualifications does Oprah have — other than BEING Oprah — to tell me or anyone else who the Democratic candidate should be??
oldtree @ 120
The Democrats have to take over the government, and then *we* have to take over the Democrats.
solai @ 130
But burns up everyone else’s baseball bats when they are not looking.
Bush doesn’t care about the constitution…even on LAW day.
Remember this direct quote from him as our President.
He was speaking with members of Congress and screamed GD piece of paper to them in a discussion of the patriot act text! Not just yelling at Barney.
noen @
114
Other than the Chief Justice presiding at an impeachment trial, I don’t think his court appointees can do diddly squat for him during an impeachment.
I would like to give Oilfieldguy’s post on his blog a “recommend.” Click on his name above his comment @75.
Eli @ 134
We may have to take over the dems from the bottom up FIRST.
LAPD shot rubber bullet and are filmed slinging clubs at immigration protesters. Ain’t that sweeet? What is wrong with these people!!
Oilfieldguy @ 124
Forgot to eat??? Are we obsessed or what?
Texas Betsy @ 121
Classic ex-alcoholic behavior. If you change course, however slightly, you’ll fall in the abyss. Never mind if it makes sense or not.
cinnamonape @ 37
That is good progressive thought and I am glad to hear it.
The general theme of the comments, sticking to the progressive netroots strategy, is excellent. Keep up the great work!
Off topic, nevertheless,
Delong contra Chait:
Let me say that it is an out-and-out lie for Jonathan “Hyde” Chait to claim that Markos Moulitsas Zuniga’s or Duncan Black’s or Jane Hamsher’s interest in “ideas and facts” is “purely instrumental,” that the “netroots consider the notion of pursuing truth for its own sake nonsensical.”
For we all know that you learn a hell of a lot more about facts and ideas relevant to, say, the Scooter Libby case from Jane Hamsher and her peers at FireDogLake http://firedoglake.com than you can learn from Jonathan Chait and his peers at the New Republic. I can recommend that somebody interested in the Libby case read FireDogLake knowing that Jane Hamsher and her peers are giving it the straightest shot they can. I can’t say that about the New Republic’s opinions of Scooter Libby, can I?
perris @ 64
If you want to write your Congressperson with my policy suggestion and modify it for your own purposes feel free…the whole point is to get us OUT of that quagmire, to put pressure on the Bush minions in every way possible, and to make staying there HURT THEM! Until they suffer financially from their support of the idiot they will continue to support the propagandists, when they stop doing THAT this will soon be finito.
Give Bush the money, but make the war-profiteers pay for it! And give him the money on the installment plan a la Murtha. If he wants to play chicken, well “Bring IT ON!”
dakine01 @ 137
That’s right! He is tried in the senate, yes?
noen @ 127
I have absolutely no fear that this will happen. And even if Dubya *did* break character and give up his precious war, who beyond the thirty-percenters would think anything positive had been achieved, or that Iraq was not disastrously worse than it was before we invaded.
Bush. Made. Saddam. Look. Good.
Off topic (I am powerless to be on topic):
Whatever you think about Oprah, the industrial farming complex tried to silence her when she DARED to speak about BSE and CJD (mad cow and variants).
Knut Wicksell @ 115
well, he doesn’t have the authority to torture, to suspend habeas corpus, to steal our information without warrants, and the list continues
he does what he wants it doesn’t matter there are laws and all, he is boyking and laws are not for him
“when the president does it that means it’s NOT against the law”…didn’t you know this?
GSD @
68
it is hard to imagine them managing to keep it from blowing up big time in the next 6 mos, much less holding it together till the next elections …
This is what she wrote.
http://youthinkleft.com/
CTuttle @ 126
Yes, that’s what I meant. And it is also true that in all these questions of “can he divert funds ” or not – - among others, the SCOTUS will have the final say. What I’m saying is that Bush most likely believes he has the supreme Court in his back pocket. He has been trying to tell the congress to “bring it on” for a long time. He thinks papa Bush has his back covered, and he might.
neon 127m
Yup.
swag @ 143
How is that off-topic? Seems pretty germane to me, and good stuff, to boot.
larue @ 86
Providing a platform for us all is a great resource. FDL has justified its elitism by letting citizen activists join together. FDL is on the front lines, and deserves credit. (What is MIC?);
Re impeachment: be careful what you ask for. If it happens (and he’s convicted), Darth is President. Given the choice, I think we’d be better off getting rid of Darth–he’s behind a lot of Dim Son’s bad ideas.
Texas Betsy @ 146
Roberts will be able to get those really cool “Renquist Stripes” put on his sleeves too.
ELi asks:
An easy question. I tolerate scoundrels for about five minutes. Maybe ten. Regardless of the hat they’re wearing.
Texas Betsy @ 146
Correct. Articles of impeachment start in the House but the trial is in the senate. 67 senators needed for conviction (2/3).
perris @ 149
He “abides” by a higher authority.
Oprah should bring Donahue on her show..for a decent political afternoon lesson for her audience….)
TB@138, That’s what we’re trying to do!!! FDL rocks!!!
And tell me this, how many of my party running for the nomination for president support a fair and just settlement to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? Apart from Kucinich.
PeterK @ 155
not at all, darth will be impeached with him in a joint impeachment process
Kids are laughing at me! THEY knew that. Too much schooling. LOL
“but they promise to give them right back when everything’s fixed.”
That’s what Lenin’s Bolsheviks said they would do, too – give all that power RIGHT back – in the post-Nicolas II ‘we’re fixing it’ period that lasted from 1917 – 1990.
There are plenty of corporatist Democrats for the progressive blogosphere to target, even if we elect a Democratic President in 2008. Hoyer, et al., will require constant monitoring regardless of who sits in the Oval Office. I don’t expect to let up on Truth-Squadding our party on Capitol Hill — it might be even more important if Democrats control both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue with a cloture-majority in the Senate.
We aren’t going away and we aren’t going to give any Democrat in the White House a free pass. If the victor expects that from the progressive blogosphere, he or she is sorely mistaken.
Transformational change takes more than winning the White House. It takes constant, unrelenting pressure. Ask Pachacutec if you don’t believe me!
TROOPS
HOME
NOW
Eureka Springs @ 161
I would watch that!
LS @ 159
“embibes” would be correct
Hi everyone!
noen @ 152
This is far more established precedent than Roe v Wade and pieces. This goes back to the very foundations of the Republic so if Scalia et al tried to say otherwise, it would prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are partisan and at that point, a majority of the Republics in Congress would get the message. Congress critters on both sides of the aisle are VERY conscious of their constitutional prerogatives, even if the Republics let them lapse a bit in hte last six years.
smapdi @ 148
It did silence her, didn’t it?
What is a “high crime” or a “high misdemeanor?”
As far as i know the only law that ever specifically addressed that was the Tenure of Office Act they used to go after Johnson.
This administration is operating on a presumption that has worn itself out. They spent years planning. It isn’t working, it will not get fixed and start working due to time or money. If there is another adminstration in our future, they will not be able to get away with what this one already has. The sooner they are gone, the better.
Eureka Springs @ 136
You left this out.
solai @ 129
Bush is the kind of kid that steals your ball, smashes you in the face with it, beats up your friends and then he and his buddies go off and play with it only to lose it five min later, and then wander off to torture small animals.
That’s Bush.
dmoore @ 117
Yea, and we can hear all about god and prayer and faith and all that good stuff, can’t wait.
Please? Sincere question. If I say The Lord works in mysterious ways, is this percieved as me telling you what to do or think? I really wanta know. Because I understand that communication is sender responsible, and on-line I have no access to non-verbal communication, I can’t tell. But, I really do wanna know.
Anyone else have something to say about the Down-Side of blog communication?
I would true appreciate a response. It’s a big question for me. I’m curious about the overall affect of blogging. Hey, I love it, but I wonder about the whole Preaching to the choir thing. Can I get a response, Christy?, Jane, at least, from a moderator. You have my e-mail, si?
I’ve had a whole slew of comments not responded to,and yes, I’ve continued to be part of this, and, I do enjoy being part of The Lake, ’cause I’m an ole hippie girl who has a new pound puppie and work in my garden and follow the stuff we consider important.
cinnamonape, you are all over it tonight.
As you so clearly laid out, Bush cannot raise monies to fight the war; that is simply not the function of the Executive Office. Unless he can find other willing third parties willing to take over the funding, he’s stuck — and the Coalition of the Willing there isn’t.
But I think going every 2 months is not going to work; at the current rate, we’re talking about the lives of another 200 troops, and then another 200 troops…forget that. Deadlines and benchmarks mean absolutely nothing to the families who receive the folded flag over a coffin. They mean nothing to my kids who continue to watch news about Iraq everyday with horror and ask, “What we can do to stop this, Mom, how do we make it stop?” There are prices that are simply not acceptable no matter the terms.
It is time for us to make the veto-proof vote happen. It is time for us to make war of a kind on our own turf, by taking it to the moderates of the Republican Party, by taking it to the ones whose seats are on the line in 2008, and make them feel the wrath of the American public for failing to stop this madness. They need to be inundated and snowed under with phone calls, faxes, emails, protests outside their office, until they reach the breaking point and vote to override a veto, or vote on newer and better and tighter legislation that will stop this madness even sooner.
It’s also time to draft and submit a Revocation of Authorization to utilize Military Force in Iraq; that is the addition power that Congress has within its purview to check this madness. Congress wrote it and authorized it; they can defund it AND they can revoke it.
Pach, hope you’re out there and reading — I think this is a Roots Project, taking it to the opposition.
RonD @ 170
Howdy Ron!
TeddySanFran @ 166
Absolutely. Although really, there are two threads to this: ideology and methods. I have no doubt that we will be all over them when it comes to ideology, but the challenge will be to cry foul when they use dodgy methods.
If we do not, then the Republicans get to throw it back in our faces that we didn’t have a problem with corruption when it was the Democrats who were guilty of it.
Eli says
Not gonna happen. He thinks he’s a genius and will be vindicated by history, 20, 30, 200 years from now. He says it all the time. Rice just started doing it also.
“The American people need to understand…” He gets it, we don’t in Bush World
Eli,
I’m getting here late, and might be epu’d, but great post, and man am I proud to be a small part of what’s happening with the Netroots.
Seems like everyone is taking half-assed potshots at what’s going on here, but they don’t seem to grasp it, and the critiques fall flat.
I imagine we all feel the same way, but I’m pretty excited, and motivated to keep this change going the right way, and that includes truth for truth’s sake.
Fuck Jonathan Chiat. I don’t remember hearing too much truth pouring from his “column” in recent years.
Texas Betsy @ 165
Good to know the kids are still learning some civics in school. Although Cassie HAS been paying attention when she’s here as well. And asking very pertinent questions when she sees something unfamiliar.
CTuttle @ 115
Well, suddenly whoever is receiving those “black funds” will be darn pissed off. At least we have shown where the waste is in the Pentagon, and cleared out “black programs” that were likely involved in massive waste and embezzlement anyways.
Consider it an antiseptic measure!
And these people will begin to peel away their support of Bush, and they may actually be the worst and most dangerous of his supporters.
Heck, Bush may have to reconsider building that huge Fortress in the Green Zone and even have to dip into the VEEP’s “Office of Special Plans”…hee-hee!
Texas Betsy @ 145
Boo-Hoo, I pointed it out at 126, and to pout on, I iterated the fact that Shrub can’t arbitrarily divert interdepartment funds!! sniffle,sniffle…..
TSF#167, you’re absolutely right. Assuming a Democrat does get elected in ‘08, the work of the progressive blogosphere will be as, if not more, important than it is now. We will have to hold their feet to the fire and demand the highest levels of competence and ethics, else we run the risk of a repeat of ‘80. Now I ask you: how better off would the world be if Reagan had been defeated in ‘80? We cannot afford another loss of that importance anytime soon.
Urban Pirate @ 181
Thanks, Pirate! I really liked his column in defense of Bush hatred, like, 3-4 years ago.
She is 15 and in 9th grade. Blue dragon (my son) is 12 and in 7th grade and he once read (and apparently memorized) the constitution back in 5th grade.
Eureka Springs @ 135
I remember hitler said the same thing about treaties (no link if someone cares to provide would appreciate)
the “patriot” act uncanny in how it mimics “the enabling act” which gave hitler his power
this my friends is bizzare
we need to renew the link to that quote from the boyking as often as possible
the media will possibly get on board with it now if we renew the event
PeterK @ 156
Would it be too much to ask to offer a spew alert the next time you offer up “Dim Son”?
That’s funny!
Texas Betsy @ 139
You do realize, don’t you, that Howard Dean was one of the first steps we took to take over the Dems from the bottom up, inside out?
Yeah. Chalk one up for the netroots; we got rid of the consultantocracy’s grip on the Democratic National Committee chair. I think we too often forget that was the first HUGE netroots win — within our own party.
And Howard is only the icing on the cake; change on the ground has been dramatic. The real problem is incumbents; we’re stuck with them until we can raise a new crop of replacements and get rid of the old ones. Ned Lamont was a perfect example of this in action, and we’ll yet give Liebermonster the boot.
STTP in Ohio @ 189
This is why Kucinich wants to impeach the Dark Lord first.
DaKine, you are on fire tonite!!! Moon in your Sign???
My party, the Democratic party, needs to consider some serious in-house cleaning. I refuse to be an apoligist for my party for the blunders they have made over the last seven years. Particularly in light of the thousands of American GI’s and the almost one million Iraqi’s who have died, essentially for nothing. I give no quarter and expect none.
Happy Beltane, everyone!
CTTuttle:
I spent 5 1/2 years in an USAF accounting shop which is how I know some of the funding tricks. Plus another dozen years working in DoD projects supporting contract administration. Legally, he can re-arrange pretty much anything with DoD to pay the bills (outside of explicit direct apporpriations such as military pay) but he cannot move funds from SS or medicare to pay for his mis-begotten/mis-guided/ill-planned/ill-managed ME adventure.
Somewhat OT..but this piece by Stoller about Edwards is cause for concern
http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/5/1/215738/1064
Rayne @ 189
Now we just need to get rid of it from the DSCC/DCCC…
Grounds for impeachment don’t make any difference as there is no judicial oversight of the process- so grounds are anything the house and the senate says are grounds.
If ya got the votes- the guy is out- but the party bringing the impeachment needs to be willing to take any political heat that comes from it.
raven @ 101
That is an amazing endorsement, well gang, let’s hop on the Obama Express..
Yea, and we can hear all about god and prayer and faith and all that good stuff, can’t wait.
huge meaning Oprah’s influence on her viewers. Obama isn’t my first or second choice or even third choice for president. No one here is going to hop on because of what Oprah says. Sheeple might hop because of Oprah.
That’s right. Shoot the immigration rights protesters with dozens of rubber bullets. Police State!!!! CNN Anderson Cooper 360, Now.
I love you Cinnamon ape at 37.
solai @ 172
I think she raised the profile of the BSE issue greater than anyone else could, or has since.
rwcole @ 197
This is the deep structural flaw with the concept of impeachment. There’s no way something like that should be determined solely by how many congresscritters each party has.
By saying he would draw funds from other programs if he didn’t get the bill he wants, Bush is saying he is Beyond Public Opinion on this matter.
Is he strong enough to hold those 21 Republican Senators up for re-election and keep the Senate Over-ride proof?
I don’t think so. No GOP Senator up for re-election in ‘08 is going to stay hitched to W’s wagon for very long.
Let’s get a Veto Over-ride Vote on the record and make the Goopers sweat.
CTuttle @ 193
Actually no. I’m a gemini w/cancer rising and moon in sag FWIW, which is nothing. But I love politics and am arrogant enough to believe that I know some of the sh*t people are talking about and have a big enough mouth to be willing to spout my views. And a willingness to admit (begrudgingly) when I’m proved wrong.
Eli @ 196
How is that done? It’s pretty hard to convince any politician that what they need to do is to be honest to their base. They follow polls because there is so much unknown about politics. And when you don’t know you fall back on statistics.
dakine01 @ 194
Right on, I served 20yrs in front line units within USA and ARNG!!! I’ve felt the pain directly!!!
LAPD’s got some ’splain’ to do. Who authorized this kind of aggression? Duh..
Why is Glenn Beck being interviewed by Anderson Cooper? WTF?
dakine01 @ 204
Drive On!!! :)
noen @ 205
I wish I knew; I think netroots funding helps, though – if candidates feel beholden to the establishment to help fund their campaigns, they’re going to be more likely to accept a crappy business-as-usual consultant who gets foisted on them.
Eli @ 197
Rahm is no longer the DCCC chair, there’s a netroots candidate instead in Chris Van Hollen. Believe that we need to keep the pressure on DSCC for this next election cycle; keep in mind that the really big prize we absolutely MUST WIN is the veto-proof majority in the Senate, so that no matter who becomes president, we retain the ability to shut down any attempts to continue in the direction we have been headed. DSCC understands this, but they need to play ball or we are going to give directly to the candidates and cut out the f*cking middle men.
Eli @ 204
But that’s what we’re left with after the Clinton debacle. Which was payback for a lot of Republics for Nixon. It’s amazing how many people still believe Nixon did nothing wrong to justify the impeachment.
radiofreewill @ 204
Devious. I like it!
Texas Betsy @ 146
And the Senate establishes the rules of evidence and procedures. The Chief Justice really is little more than a moderator who follows the Roberts Rules of Order.
BTW This is critical as Cheney has NO ROLE in an impeachment. He doesn’t preside, and I don’t even think he can vote if there were a situation where he would be the deciding vote.
But the fact that Bush would suggest drawing funds from budgeted programs at the expense of another autonomously without Congressional approval indicates just one more case where he has indicated he would ignore, rather than protect, the Constitution. All those Presidential Signing Statements to avoid havinfg to veto Bills. It certainly raises issues as to whether he has done this “creative accounting” in the past.
That may suggest that Congress begin tolook into cases of illegal interdepartmental funding transfers.
cinnamonape @ 184
Tuttle…what a bonus! If true, yes, yes, yes!
CNN doing their level best to bestow legitimacy upon Glenn Beck…..
Shameless.
-GSD
The founders saw impeachment as a political process- not a judicial one- but it sounds kinda judicial so we are often confused.
They started the process in the house- because they always expected it to more closely reflect the grass roots sentiment of the country- but ended it in the senate- the body they expected to be wiser and less controlled by short term political expediency.
The process is tough- which is why NO PRESIDENT HAS EVER BEEN REMOVED FROM OFFICE BY ITS MEANS.
Someone said here that Bush would take the money to continue his war from Social Security. I have a better idea. He should adapt his own idea to privatize Social Security to the war–privatize it! Surely his friends in the oil business, Halliburton, and the many hydra heads of the military-industrial complex would be willing to step up to the plate and own a piece of this war they all think is so great.
/s
Hi dmoore #177, You do truly deserve a reponse. If you say the Lord works in mysterious ways, I for one absolutely do not consider you to be telling me what to think. I consider your statement to be a religious/philosophical statement about the grand mystery that is the future. While I’m fairly new here, I can state (based on my own experience)for a fact that your comments WILL be read and valued, but the threads move so fast that sometimes intended responses are late or preempted by new thoughts. If you detect a hint of snark in some of the responses to religious statements, please understand: many of us are tired of the attempts to force fundamentalism down our throats for the last 6 years.Please don’t take it personally. You have found the best progressive site and community on the entire Web, and we’re happy to have you here.
Eli @ 209
Good point. Yeah, I agree. Most politicians are constrained by fear. If they know their base is behind them that is one less thing they have to worry about.
Rayne @ 210
Yes, I am very happy to be rid of Rahm, although I don’t know how much of his apparatus is still in place.
Also worth noting that a veto-proof majority is *also* a filibuster-proof majority.
Oilfieldguy @ 50
Speaking of tobacco, what happened with the tobacco settlement that lost us billions?
Eli @ 203
The Repubs lost seats in the next election cycle after impeaching Clinton so there’s a price to pay for going too far.
Eli @ 202
Eli, au contraire, think about Clinton, if the Senate had had more repugs, he would have been impeached!!!
LS @ 209
Is the Mouth-Breather’s Union having a bake sale?
;>)
neurophius @ 219
Too much of a loss leader. No profit no war. By having gov’t control the war, they get profit without pain. But nice idea.
“Are we rabidly ideological? Absolutely. “
Speak for yourself. Liberalism is not an ideology in any real sense compared to Conservatism, or Libertarianism or Communism. Classical liberalism describes a process by which decisions are made. Modern liberalism is a hodgepodge of stances on individual issues which sewn together are impossible to neatly summarize as motivated by a common idea. An ideology in other words.
Hopefully the common goal of liberal positions would be described as giving the maximum amount of freedom to the maximum nuber of people.
There is only one thing – or, person – who could ruin the dream of getting Repugnicans out of the White House..
I all seriousness, I have yet to hear ONE SCENARIO playing out how Hillary can win. NOT ONE.
The New York Times is her only fan, and they cannot do it alone – Witness their very artful negative article on Obama and his religiosity, which is a “killer issue.”
Hillary cannot carry one major constituency… Not women, not moderates, not Republicans fed up with Bush. Not the left of the Democratic Party. Not one major voting demographic. Not even African Americans. Not one.
Hillary is the only death knell for the Dem’s to take the White House in 2008. She would be suicide for the Dems.
lolo @ 200
Yea, and we can hear all about god and prayer and faith and all that good stuff, can’t wait.
huge meaning Oprah’s influence on her viewers. Obama isn’t my first or second choice or even third choice for president. No one here is going to hop on because of what Oprah says. Sheeple might hop because of Oprah.
Hey it’s all about the numbers, Lolo, if Oprah can deliver a voting bloc then she has political power
neurophius @ 218
But Haliburton does own a piece of this war … it’s just that they outsourced paying for it to you and me. That’s the whole idea — they get funded for doing nothing far far away and the money keeps getting sucked out of our economy
smapdi @
56
Yay! So hope this presages her indictment.
Eli @ 222
By seven votes. Filibuster cloture requires 60 votes. Used to require 67 but changed when the filibuster rules were changed back in the sixties I believe it was.
when even people like Bill Buckley are jumpimg ship, it is very telling.afraid to hope….
Dear beloved mod,
please do email me. I have a question about the tone of one of my posts. thank you very much.
Happy Beltane, Renee!
Go on over and answer CNN’s QotD about Awol’s veto. 68% disagree with the veto at this time.
Bush is playing politics with the troops funding.
Bush is not supporting our troops.
rapier @ 226
nicely put.
I just got off the phone with a close and dear Demo liberal friend of mine from No. Cali. She said I was way too politically radical. Can you believe that? ;0)
CTuttle @ 223
I’m saying that cuts both ways. I don’t think it should be a congressional process at all.
The analogy I use is if you’re tried for murder, and the jury is made up of your friends and enemies instead of strangers (and it doesn’t have to be unanimous).
If the jury is dominated by your friends, you’ll probably get off even if you confessed and were caught on videotape. If the jury is dominated by your enemies, you’ll probably get convicted even if there’s no evidence at all.
noen @ 206
There are two methods. The first is money; as long as our political system isn’t publicly funded, money is a necessity and it is a tool for leverage. I know that you can get the attention of a candidate for between 2K and 5K; for that much you can get right in their face and tell them like it is. Find 200 like-minded people with $10 and invite the candidate — and then let him have it.
The second is the primary. If the candidate isn’t playing ball, run a better candidate and get them elected instead. Or make the first candidate get smart while running against the second candidate. The exception to this rule is Joey “Short Ride” Lieberman, who should not have been able to run again in defiance of the Democratic Party rank and file in his state; frankly, the Dems probably should have helped the real Repug candidate run a better race against “Short Ride”.
We have a lot of strategy to learn, believe me — but we have options. And we have to be present to win, cannot win if we as citizens don’t show up and make things happen.
STTP in Ohio @ 189
Thanks!–but full disclosure: It came from another pup during a Book Salon a few weeks ago. Then Andrew Cockburn compared W’s WH to Versailles–which makes him (caution! spew danger!) the Dim Son King.
RonD @ 218
Thank you, Ron. I’m not alone in this blogosphere. I do understand that the past 6 years of fundamental BS has turned off alot of people to religion/philosophy. I try to not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I do appreciate the progressive attitudes at this site, which is why I’ve stayed.
Warmest thanks, again.
Cozumel @ 222
The Republicans impeached a popular president in the face of popular demand. If the Democrats build demand for impeachment through investigations, then I do not believe there would be an electoral backlash.
But that is a critical if.
Ah- Bush HAS been taking money from social security to finance his war ever since he started it!!
His deficits are in part financed by the current social security surplus.
mostly on-topic, i gather. . .
interestingly, on the RNC e-mail score,
rep. henry waxman’s been one busy bee, putting
pen to parchment, once again, this evening.
the latest nasty-gram [full-text at above link]
was sent tonight to the attention of mike duncan,
the chair of the r.n.c., giving him a head’s-up
about what he’ll be expected to answer for next
tuesday, under the klieg-lights. . .
cool!
What Jonathan Chait has done here is nothing more than reveal his own character.
waxman is teh man and he’s actually learning MORE as he goes, check out this strategy so there is no “I’ll get that for you”, or “I forgot”;
Whoaa, what did I miss? When(why) did Rahm lose? resign? the DCCC chairmanship??? I liked him, didn’t always agree with him, but I thought he was pretty effective!!! More effective than Turd Blossom!!! Snicker, Snicker…
rwcole @ 245
Social security trust fund dollars have been used in the budget calculations since IIRC the Ray-guns years. So the deficit that the Chimpenfuhrer has been running up is over and above the amounts owed to Soc. Sec.
oregondave @ 246
Amen. And they call it journalism. Go figure.
If Senator Clinton is the Democratic nominee, I will vote for the Senator from NY.
Eli @ 242
Yeah, big if.
Can you imagine the howls from the media? They wouldn’t be within miles of “fair”. It would be a nightmare.
dmoore: I enjoy your posts as well, and I agree 100% with what Ron D commented at 218. Things move so fast here, I’m guessing that each post gets read and carefully considered by dozens, if not hundreds, of folks even if nobody replies immediately.
Bush’s idiot foreign policy has left the US pulling our collective puds while North Korea decides when they’ll shut down their nuke program even after we’ve released $25 million in bribe money.
Also it has so weakened the US that Iran just said ‘no thanks’ to meeting with Kinda-cheesy Rice.
Heckuva job, the axis of evil is calling the shots 7 years after the war on terra began.
-GSD
Eli @ 244
True but I’m gun shy ; ) I don’t think the public has the stomach for it (impeachment)
CTuttle @ 249
That’s the type of position that is usually only held for one election cycle. They don’t want one person to get too comfortable or to build up too much of a power base there so it rotates.
Eli @ 238
I’ll concede a tad, however, them fellas back in ‘76 were pretty shrewd!!!
perris @ 246
When does Duncan testify?
Go Waxman!
Cozumel @ 256
the public YEARNS for impeaching this guy, the democrats will GAIN seats not loose them if this man is impeached
Eli @ 222
dakine01 @ 232
You got that straight.
And it’s really not just about keeping the President on the straight and narrow, no matter who is elected, but about reshaping the now-skewed Supreme Court.
We cannot afford another Alito ever again. If you’re religious, please say a prayer frequently that the current SCOTUS remains seated in its current makeup until after January 2009.
I missed that one! Today?
rwcole @ 218
Exactly. The Founders did not intend for it to be a strictly judicial process, they wanted to allow for Executive Officers to be removed for incompetancy and other activities…but to also shield them somewhat from a local vendetta by a prosecutor or judge.
The supermajority requirement in the Senate makes a President (or his agents) susceptible to removal from office, but it would require a slow transformation of the political climate or a major action of error, miscalculation, or malfeasance. In almost all cases one would have to sway members of the opposition party.
And any President at a time where the House was > 50% opposition, and the Senate 66% opposition likely would be incapable of acting anyways. Basically he would be repeatedly blocking the public will and over-ridden if he vetoed acts. The impeachment would likely be over actions that blocked such laws.
The U.S. Constitution actually has one of the most stringent criteria for conviction of impeachment. A vote of no confidence (also a political act) that occurs in Parliamentary systems require far fewer votes to throw out the “Executive” Minister. In addition, the Parliamentary seats are much more volatile in terms of shifts than the Senate.
Coz
The public has absolutely ZERO stomach for another round of one party making an attempt to impeach and remove a president when there isn’t a chance in hell that they will succeed.
It would be seen for the political side show that it would be.
Things could change- but as of today- there is zero chance that this president will be removed from office- ZERO.
I’m pretty sure that when Bush says take money from other programs, he’s referring to Dept of Def programs. I think that’s all he can do legally.
Thanks guys (gender inclusive!) I guess I was just having a Needy Moment. It happens for me, maybe it happens for some of you.
rwcole @ 263
Watch it. The political climate is changing VERY rapidly. We may be there quite soon, IMHO.
Rayne @ 261
Or at least until we get to about this point in ‘08. There’s plenty of precedent for not confirming a new SC nominee from a lame duck pres in his last year.
Love the Leonard Cohen theme
Democracy is coming to the USA
rwcole @ 262
I’m not as insistant on impeachment as I am on jail time. Nothing focuses the mind like sitting your ass in a cold dark cell with lots of time to think. That’s what I want, I doubt I’ll get it though.
dmoore,
You have great posts. Know that you are paid attention to and appreciated.
dmoore,
I don’t know you yet. Pleased to meet you!
dakine01 @ 255
Aah, true, I just didn’t feel my antennae twitch! I usually have caught some mention early on, wasn’t aware the cycle had completed with Rahm!
I just know they are going to give President Kuchinich a hell of a hard time…….
Rayne @ 259
Exactly. I suspect that Stevens desperately wants to retire, but knows what it would mean. He is the reason the Democrats *must* win the White House, or at least attain a “functional” majority in the Senate (i.e., 41 or preferably 51 Democrats who will reliably vote against Alito-style judges).
rwcole @
264
RW,
I couldn’t agree more and I might add that the Dems are on probation with the electorate at this point.
dmoore, LOL, I know how you feel. These people are so smart and type so fast that sometimes they can roll right on by.
CTTuttle,
I think the change from Rahm to Van Hollen was back in January when the new congress was seated and the new committee chairs were set up. Prol’ly got lost in the noise.
rwcole @ 264
I beg to differ, the vast majority of Americans want this president OUT of office
whether or not the impeachment is successfully is not the issue, the charges must be brought public and Americans have to see what has been done by this administration
they MUST be brought to the bar of justice, they MUST be judged and a historical record MUST be etched for posterity
sorry, this HAS to happen if America is to heal, if we are to harden our resolve to NEVER allow this to happen again…and IF our constitution is to survive we must give our heirs a guard
that guard will be established with the impeachment process, whether or not it is successful
we must heal for ourselves, we must heal for our international integrity
we must
dakine01 @ 266
And Bush has always been very respectful of precedent.
I know George McGovern was pissed when he wrote it
but I think he’s still spot on:
“I expect to see Cheney and Bush forced to resign their offices before 2008 is over.”
Who needs impeachment? Out of office is out of office no matter how we get there.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 274
Wouldn’t that be the score so far of this century? I think Kucinich has a quality of connectedness to the earth, no one else has.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 273
Thanks for the smile.
Eli @ 273
All the more reason to work your local party and get people in there who represent you. It all begins and ends locally.
LS @ 201
It was quiet in downtown LA today. They didn’t have that many protesters that I could see – at 4pm it was clear around 5th and Broadway, and cars moving on Broadway, so they’d all gone by. No sirens, no helicopters – and I’d have heard them.
Anderson Cooper isn’t always reliable in his reporting. A friend of mine has a story about his coverage of the Northridge earthquake. He came out to cover it, wanting to show people in a panic about the damage and all, and wasn’t getting that reaction. He went someplace else (farther away) to find the ‘OMG! It was, like, so bad!’ reaction he thought people should have. So I take his coverage of events with more than a little salt.
noen @ 268
Impeachment or jail time would be nice, but I don’t expect either. I just want the Republicans’ misdeeds hung around their necks for the next 20-30 years or so.
Eli @ 274
We should already be identifying, vetting and screening candidates, just in case.
And I’m very sorry, do not mean this to be gender-biased, but I believe strongly that the next seat must go to a woman if at all possible. It is simply too much to bear to be told by a handful of old white men that I am unable to make my own medical decisions because I am a woman.
Lets see one Pres lied about a BJ and one Pres is a blatent war criminal…the similarities end there..
The charges are endless…the crimes are against humanity..the constitution, the rule of law.
Show the public the evidence (in public) once and for all and even the fundies will turn their wimpy little selves against Bush like no lefty ever dreamed of.
Impeachment can and must happen! And then to the HAGUE!
Eli @ 280
Just so long as Harry and Nancy are respectful which they will be. And when they are, they can respectfully tell the Chimp to go p*ss up a rope with his nominee. With all due respect of course.
Iran to Condi Rice: Talk to the hand.
-GSD
STTP in Ohio @ 281
I would rather see the process, I would rather the crimes become public, I would rather we establish a guard against the fascists that would overthrow from within
we really need the impeachment process for these crimes
resignation is fine but I want the trial of impeachment even if these two criminals resign
OT- Have you seen the pictures of LAPD shooting rubber bullets at the protesters and threatening them with their batons? I’m already ready to explode. Looks like a police state. Looks like the 60s. Wasn’t there some weapon that BushCo wanted to try out on Americans? What was that? And where is Arnold?
VERY SCARY PICS
P J Evans @ 283
Anderson Cooper was with the CIA. What he is doing in the press is anyone’s guess.
Eureka Springs @ 287
I would settle for the Hague first.
RonD @ 277
yes, I hear ya too dmoore, and I’ll add this: smart and great as it all is……there’s still quite a bit of celebrity cultism, even here.
Eli#286, what you said is exactly how I feel. Impeachment/jail would be nice, but I’ll settle for 20-30 years of ridicule and rejection for the Republican Party.
Perris
That- unfortunately- is not true. There have been one or two polls on impeachment and the numbers supporting it are very small-
In addition- the whole process is long and draining and would drag the country through a long, drawn out, emotional process where there is no chance of success.
It would be a massive error at this point
solai @ 292
Is there a link to anything? What should we be looking for?
Eureka Springs @ 287
hear hear!
war crimes are not equivalent to a blow job …
solai @ 291
Something microwave-like and painful from blocks away. If I recall.
RonD @ 296
I’ll take it, cash me in ; )
rwcole @ 297
Agreed. Just keep the investigations light shining and Eli’s wish for a marginalized Republic party should come to pass. BTW, I htink most of us have the same wish.
CNN was showing the LAPD mess. No link, TV
perris @
14
he said;
“I will take funding from other programs”
yes, he said that, yes, that means social security, yes that means the pension insurance funds, veterans benefits
yes, that’s what it means
I think it means something else, something less immediately bad but nevertheless bad for Little Boots’s political standing. I’ve long heard that the immensely inflated Pentagon budget has so many hidden wells of simoleons, that Caligula can rather easily squeeze here or there and maintain the occupation force in the style to which it has been forced to adapt to, for quite awhile. And as soon as it becomes obvious that Dear Leader is in fact doing this, then his Second Veto will be seen for exactly what it is: an empty gesture aimed at shoring up the immense edifice of collapsing cards that is his Iraqi adventure.
dakine01 @ 276
Could be, but, IRCC Rahm held the title recently, in fact in today’s retort to the Shrub’s veto, I could clearly see Rahm behind Nancy, right beside Durbin!!!
CTuttle @ 249
Rahm gave up the DCCC position to become Democratic Caucus Chair, which is a part of the House Democratic leadership and I believe is viewed as a higher position. He has not given up all of his influence at the DCCC, however. I often get DCCC e-mails from him signed as Democrtic Caucus Chair.
This, with all due respect:
cinnamonape @ 263
… is a huge, fantastic, quantum leap. Johnson, in 1868 and Clinton were run through the process “politically” and it could not stick…
“High crimes and misdemeanors” are not political afronts because the electorate has “changed their mind.” Impeachment is NOT a political process, nor was it ever intended to be by the so-called “founders” – which there is no such thing, as the “founders” were quite a politically eclectic bunch… Not homogenous.
WAY WAY OT —-
Anyone in here have firefox probs this week on XP. Specifically, can’t find my bookmarks, can’t open a new window. Can’t find my little favorites buttons. Already uninstalled and re-installed. Already killed the cache and a few add-ons.
P J Evans @ 285
So, I guess you are saying it is kind of like those hurricane reporting set-ups that we see. Hair flying, coats flying, etc. You may be right on this one. I do remember when Hurricane Gloria hit NYC (when I lived there) and we all took off work. We spent the day changing channels to see who was blowing away the worst (every channel was competing for the most blown away reporter), because that was more exciting (and justified our free day off).
Oh well, we’ll see. If they were attacking people in the manner they showed on teevee for real, then I still think we have a problem. It’s all an illusion, isn’t it. We are at their mercy sometimes. Thanks for the reality check.
S.O.S. from MA @ 304
I think it means something else, something less immediately bad but nevertheless bad for Little Boots’s political standing. I’ve long heard that the immensely inflated Pentagon budget has so many hidden wells of simoleons, that Caligula can rather easily squeeze here or there and maintain the occupation force in the style to which it has been forced to adapt to, for quite awhile. And as soon as it becomes obvious that Dear Leader is in fact doing this, then his Second Veto will be seen for exactly what it is: an empty gesture aimed at shoring up the immense edifice of collapsing cards that is his Iraqi adventure.
As I’m sure you’r aware, there’s large amounts of funding out there for development/R&D/suppoort contracts that would be moved to fund the troops. And you’re correct in that when that happens, all the connected MIC who have been milking their contracts will be up in arms. An Ins*rrection in the beltway maybe?
dakine01 @ 213
Compared to Shrub, Nixon was brilliant AND ethical.
“a handful of old white men”. ;0)
Warning, don’t feed the troll.
Texas Betsy @ 309
All day, today. What is up with that??????
neurophius @ 304
Uhoh, stand corrected!!! All those Cccs!!!
Texas Betsy @ 309
Last week Firefox trashed almost all of my bookmarks. That seems to be the only problem I had. My partner, who also runs Firefox, had no trouble on his computer at all (this time). From what you’re saying I got off easy…
Ack, Ack.
LS @ 315
Just further reinforcement as to why I luvs my mac.
Marion in Savannah @ 317
I don’t know what any of that means. But are you saying that someone is screwing with your internet access?
LA protest photos
Metroblogging LA
eecue
flickr
Marion in Savannah @ 316
Just started the Trend Micro thing.
Eli @
46
Republicans everywhere need to be challenged on whether they actually support the Bush pledge to remain in Iraq until he leaves office.
Perhaps a resolution of the Senate and House calling for the troops to be pulled out before Bush leaves office.
If they can’t agree to that they’re dooming themselves politically.
We should never release monies without a set of benchmarks to be met and a binding deadline if they’re not met.
If Bush wants to take monies from other accounts, then there’s probably a way to add that to the indictment.
dakine01, 319,
That is EXACTLY what Mr. LS just told me!!!!
No, just the browser seems to have a problem.
SOS at 304 saiud: ” I’ve long heard that the immensely inflated Pentagon budget has so many hidden wells of simoleons, that Caligula can rather easily squeeze here or there and maintain the occupation force in the style to which it has been forced to adapt to, for quite awhile. And as soon as it becomes obvious that Dear Leader is in fact doing this, then his Second Veto will be seen for exactly what it is: an empty gesture aimed at shoring up the immense edifice of collapsing cards that is his Iraqi adventure.
Imagine if the Congress failed to pass a supplementary spending bill and Bush was able to keep the war going? Wouldn’t that suggest that the ORIGINAL request wasn’t all that necessary?
And get this…Congress doesn’t even have to back down. They can stand on principles and show that they won’t be blackmailed and that Bush lied about the troops having to fight without funds.
It would reveal him for the lying fraud he is. If he has other money squirreled away in the DOD then there isn’t much that Congress can do. But I’m sure that they’ll be very interested in where this money is coming from and in draining those secret bank accounts.
Puesto @ 306
Oh so true!!! Party politics was an anathema back then, the idea appalled George, I know he is spinning in his grave with this George!!!!
Texas Betsy @ 309
If you have WindowsXP you might try System Restore to a date prior to when that happened. Zennurse had the same problem about a year ago, IIRC, and that worked for her ; )
Urban Pirate @ 312
Compared to Shrub, Nixon was brilliant AND ethical.
As I said a few weeks back in the context of the upcoming analysis of the WH emails and the past analysis of the WH Watergate tapes: “It would be more than fitting were George W. Bush’s political fate to be like Richard M. Nixon’s. This despite the fact that compared to George W. Bush, Richard M. Nixon (though reviled at the time) was (in retrospect) a statesman, a genius, a scholar and a saint.”
smapdi @
56
Does ABC have her phone number?
I run Firefox, and have found a simple preventive measure for preserving my bookmarks. Simply click on “manage bookmarks” and a new window will open with all your bookmarks in it. Go up to “File” and choose “Export” which will open a file window, asking where you want to place a copy the bookmarks file, and under what name you want to file it. I usually name it “bookmarks – May 1″ (or whatever the date is), and put it right on the desktop.
Do this about every month or so, and should you have to reload Firefox, you can “import” this file and not lose your carefully crafted bookmarks!
Texas Betsy @ 307
I was whining about it last nite!!!
solai @ 320
No, I still have internet access and am using Firefox right now, but I had probably, oh, about 100 bookmarks in various folders. One day I woke up and all but 7 of them were gone. WHOOSH… Vanished. Don’t know why, but maybe a “techie” will be able to clarify what’s obviously a recent Firefox (maybe only with XP? I’ve got XP Professional) issue.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 312
Hey, it’s true; I’ve yet to run into an African-American who’ll proudly claim Clarence Thomas as brethren. Defacto old white man — and a really crappy jurist, to boot.
LS @
323
I’ve had to use windows machines at work (when I’ve had employment) for most of the last dozen years. But my personal machines have all been macs since ‘95. With all the fanfare of this new MS OS, it is not doing anything that the Mac OS has not done since ‘01 and usually not as well as the mac does it.
I’m using the Mac browser safari and have had ONE web site not be accessible. It requires firefox and I may or may not get it but probably not.
Texas Betsy @ 322
???? What’s that? Never heard of it…
solai @ 320
Firefox settings are kept here:
C:–Documents and Settings–CurrentUser–Local
Settings–Application
Data–Mozilla–Firefox–Profiles
It’s a good idea to back up your profile.
Texas Betsy — only problem I have ever had with Firefox was self-inflicted.
:(
It’s been running like a charm for me for quite some time, and certainly no problems recently.
Peterr @ 331
Oh, bless you, bless you, BLESS YOU! I’ll start doing that immediately.
Marion in Savannah @ 339
“Bless you?” Isn’t that my line? *g*
You’re quite welcome.
Marion in Savannah @ 335
http://housecall65.trendmicro.com/
Marion in Savannah @ 336
All you’ll need to know is here:
TweakHound
Noen @ 337, 8:00
Many thanks for your information too. I’m taking notes!
New thread upstairs.
TB: Checkout Lost_bookmarks
very well said, SOS.
nice post, Eli
Thanks, pun!
oddmommy @ 293
oddmommy @ 293
Oh, Oddmommy. Appreciate your sentimensts. Hope all do.
BTW, I quoted you on a post to my son. You called someone (in the admin) a FI. I’ve been known to use those words. Told my boy, See, I’m not the only Odd Mommy.
Gosh (blushing), I feel like Sally Fields. Remember?
tw3k @ 344
That is the least of the issues. I synchronize those with my Google.
Jay @
98
The race for now is mostly between Hillary and Barack. This would swing a large number of people over to Barack.
But, don’t forget, he’s still young and somewhat erratic. If he stumbles at all, then the race is wide open again.
However, one good thing which could come from this is that it likely prevents a calcification of support for Hillary, so the race can go on.
It’s hard for the others to move up until they win debates hands-down and then win a primary. That would change everything AGAIN.
dakine01 @ 319
Too freakin true, dakine01!
One wonders why people value their time so lightly as to save a few razbucknicks on Windoze gear and then p*$$ away those savings (and more!) on trying to make it understandable and functional.
Whereas if they just wized up and luved them some Mac (like us’ns do), they would break even or even make a profit, and be way happier into the bargain.
Ever met a Mac user who DOESN’T say “I loves mah Mac?” Ever met a Windoze owner who says they love their computer? Most of the time when you ask, they look at you as if you’re a Space Alien — as if you’re expected to waste untold time tweaking at it before it gets the hell out of the way and lets you think about what you WANTED to think about before you bought a computer in the FIRST place.
And no, I don’t work for Apple. It’s just that most senior geeks whom I know, who have been in the ‘net biz since the 1970’s when it all started, are Mac users. We have used both and grok them at a deep level, and we know.
Pls pardon OT /soapbox :)
=====
Oh good, while I was writing this rant it was reletated to EPU-land where it sortakinda belongs. And no, I ain’t EPUing it to the next thread! That’s mah story and I’m stickin to it.
Texas Betsy,
Windows XP System Restore
http://www.microsoft.com/techn…..ysrst.mspx
Rayne @
178
I think Congress need not even REVOKE the Authorization…but merely state that the terms in that Authorization DO NOT Authorize Bush to engage in a Civil War . That Authorization was limited to undertaking force to compel Saddam Hussein to fulfill the UN Resolutions regarding inspections, WMD’s and sanctions. NONE of those resolutions are operative anymore.
The Congress should simply state that Bush requires a new AUTHORIZATION for the current activities and make it clear that this must be done within 60 days.
That way they don’t need Bush to sign it. They need to make apparent the wording of the original resolution is being falsely used. This is a “sense of Congress” statement…and cannort be vetoed.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 239
She’s wrong, OKK!
I don’t know about President ObamaClintonEdwardsGore. President Gravel kind of has a nice ring to it.
Puesto @ 308
Where is any definition of what a “high crime and misdemeanor” found? While some hold that it must relate to an Un-Constitutional Act, others held that even lying about a blow-job was all that was necessary.
I agree that the founders were eclectic (in fact many of them didn’t even support the Constitution at all…the Anti-Federalists), this was perhaps why such violations were not spelled out. To do so would require consensus and those who were involved in the Constitutional Convention (if you disapprove of the phrase “Founders”) were incapable of setting out a list of specified crimes.
That heterogeniety was also likely the rationale for having an extremely high standard for conviction (thus allowing a minority to have some “blocking power”). But they also, quite explicitly, seperated the judicial from the impeachment process. Conviction upon an impeachment vote was not tantamount to establishing a CRIMINAL ACT. All it did was remove the convicted party from their position, remove any benefits of office, and ban them from further office. But it was up to the Judiciary to convict them of actual crimes.
Founders knew that there could be a time when for reasons unkown to them, a president would become unable to govern- even for the remainder of a term- so impeachment gave a way out of that potential nightmare. They obviously didn’t want the congress kicking out elected presidents willy nilly- so they made it damned tough.
It is a political act in the sense that a person is removed from office and a new person installed on the basis of a vote from elected representatives- and the founders figured (correctly) that politicians wouldn’t do it unless it reflected the sentiment of the people.
If Bush pulls money from current DOD programs, look for a scream fest from the BIG BOYS, ie General Dynamics, Raytheon ….
I would just love to see the WH trying spin this BS.
BTW first time to comment, really enjoy the blogs and I think that no matter who is in office the blogs will demand accountability.
Steve @
197
Read the comments following the post. You’ll be enlightened whether it makes you an Edwards fan or not.
dmoore @ 348
hell yes. Sally was the quintessential Momma. “Stupid is as stupid does,” etc. You know, she was once a flying nun……
ps: dunno what’s up with these italics and underlines…..Gonzo at work again…?
Rickyflatlander @ 357
Welcome, ricky! I think and hope you’re right. I think it’s important that Democrats and liberals create a dichotomy where we’re the honorable straight shooters, and the GOP and their noise machine are the slimy corrupt liars.
CTuttle @ 327
Hah! Tell that to Jefferson! Burr! The Federalists and the Antiu-Federalists! If anything the political currents and media was MORE politicized then than today. The very reason they instituted a Tripartite government with checks-and-balances was to prevent the Republic from dissolving because of factions. There were Agrarian and Rural factions. Those that wanted alliances with foreign powers and those that eschewed them. Former veterans and those that felt that these individuals represented a noisy, demanding (and sometimes insurrectionary) rabble. There were those who wanted the states to be autonomous and those that wanted a stronger Centralized government.
The divided the Congress because they were quite aware of factions and parties. SOME considered these a problem, and even discussed banning them. That never got anywhere, though.
This is just another myth that the Constitutional Convention had no factions and were all copasetic…but that didn’t mean that they thought that the impeachment process was a criminal process and that were taking over the role of the courts when it came to the Executive branch. Impeachment was viewed very much in the way that parliament could challenge the appointments of Royal officers. It was much more of an act of displeasure than a CRIMINAL PROCESS. There was no punishment except for removal from office and privileges that were accrued from that. No imprisonment, fines, public scourging, or tar-and-feathering was involved.
Rayne @ 212
As much as I’d like to see BushCo impeached and forgotten about in the Hague and after reading all the debates in the last few weeks I believe it all boils down to the goal of a progressive veto-proof majority.
That is why I read FDL and that is why I stay optimistic in the face all the wrongs done by the current administration.
http://www.capitolhillblue.com…..7779.shtml
The Capitol Hill Blue webpage quoted before has some rather amazing quotes.
It’s OT for now, but the one by Justice Scalia amazes me and I think I heard him say it once on a PBS show. How can he say the Court can take away rights? He says he’s only reading the text of the Constitution, but I don’t know where that is in the document.
I demand my right to run real fast with scissors in my hands!
Maybe we can get back to discussing this at some more appropriate time.
Jay @ 98
oprah has endorsed obama since long before he declared himself a candidate. she provided him the platform of her show at least twice since last fall, mostly with the intention of speaking to a presidential candidacy for him.
that, as well as other MSM darling activities has me most suspicious of obama. i’m willing to learn of him as something more than an empty suit, but i haven’t seen that substance yet. only him speaking about the substance he will have…
right now, other candidates will have to demonstrate to me why i should not vote for John Edwards. he strikes me as the candidate who has the most substance at this point in the process.
Leaving aside that Chait’s essay is every bit as rhetorical (or, to use his rhetoric, propagandistic) as every piece of opinion journalism necessarily is — for example, one pundit’s “unconcealed” emotion is another pundit’s admirable transparency — there is a BIG, HUGE, ENORMOUS, GLARINGLY OBVIOUS AND DISTINGUISHING KEY DIFFERENCE between the New Right and the netroots.
“Follow the money” has always been more aphorism than axiom, even among investigative reporters. But given the very readily available data in this case, Chait’s failure to observe it is more than kind of like refusing to acknowledge the doubly figurative elephant in the room.
From Fox News to WND to Swift Boaters, one side of Chait’s equation is overwhelmingly funded by a comparatively small group of super-wealthy corporate titans. The other, from Daily Kos to Tbogg is primarily sustained by a patchwork that includes some superwealthy corporate titans (though comparatively fewer in number, providing comparatively smaller sums, some self-financing, and — in one form or another — people power, either directly, or in advertising revenue that rises and falls on a free-market rather than a Scaife-
or-Murdoch-assisted basis. They are, a priori, definitely not equal when assessed by a universally accepted standard measurement, and unless the inequity is noted and accommodated, not even meaningfully comparable.
If the general subject is how to evaluate the quality and implications of external influence on a political party’s platform, a difference that major with respect to flow of funds is literally the difference between up and down. In one case, following the money is a trip that is more likely to start at the top of a few very high and exclusive peaks, and in the other, it is more likely to be a strenuous hike up multiple, open-to-everyone mountain trails.
Subtract that factor, and all you’ve got is rhetoric (or propaganda). Or, since I get to choose the loaded language here, what I would call rote, unsupported, and intellectually hollow cant.
Also: To what “moderate majority” is Chait referring exactly? I’m willing to believe that there is one, but it would be nice to see the evidence.
Excellent point, closereader. The money connection pretty much guarantees that the conservasphere will *not* be independent, at least not the funded part of it, which is where the rest of it takes its cues from.
Bush deserves to be impeached! But, there may not be enough time to convince the Repubs that it is in their best interest. If that is the case then censure is needed. This Prez must receive some kind of black mark against him from congress. The various scandals that are appearing almost hourly help. However we simply do not have the votes at this time to do the right thing (IMPEACH THE IDIOT).
That said, I wonder why the Democrats can’t force the Repubs to defend against censure while we the people push for impeachment. Is this an insane idea? Or worse a coward’s way out?
Basically I want something in the Congressional records that shows this Prez was considered a failure. If for no other reason than when he is out of office and on the BS tour saying how misunderstood his vision was, there will be something that shows that congress really did have his number.
Oklahoma kiddo @
163
And THIS, is why, I have little hope for the dem’s, and fear them as much as the rest of corporatist america and the MIC.
TeddySanFran @
167
Happy May Day from a former San Matean, now stuck in thegodforsakenvalleythattimeforgot. Sacto.
I’m down with yer up on the issue.
solai @
292
1) Milatary weapon is a laser item that will begin to heat your skin and make you MOVE fast.
2) Arnold has contracted with Blackwater and they are building a HUGE training facility in San Diego. When civil unrest develops, Blackwater Mercs will take to the streets without questin and CLEAR them. Blackwater has been contracted to provide CA based security services, cuz the GUARD is in Iraq (wink wink).
Arnold is second in line to fear when martial law is declared by the ChimpEnMeister. They are BOTH dictators in waiting.
You need to be afraid, if you live in CA, or this nation. Very afraid.
DISCLAIMER: all of the following are generalities; there are exceptions to every generality; generalities are useful to describe a prevailing of predominant condition.
The key to keep in mind is that left versus right is not an ideological juxtaposition, it is a reflection of personality types. Hence, there is no chance of “the left” becoming as craven as the “the right” has been for more than generation. People trending to wingnut cravenness will become wingnuts, not craven lefties. Ascendance of “the left” to the presidency with current control of the legislature (if it happens) will present its own set of problems and result in the splintering of the left. But the rank hypocrisy, deceit, character assassination, military adventurism, and destruction of the constitution and rule of law that have characterized the apex of the cult of republicanism rule are not among the possible outcomes of “left” dominance due to the “personality” type of the left.