
Photo posted by Apostropher
TRex’s Late Nite post reminds us today is the four year anniversary of Mission Accomplished Day, one of several milestones the Administration wanted us to celebrate, along with Iraqi Sovereignty Moment, Elections Day, Strategy For Victory Month, Stay the Course Remembrance Year and Surge Forever. But the only positive thing the neocons’ catastrophic invasion and occupation of Iraq may still accomplish is the complete disgrace and possible downfall of the Bush/Cheney regime, along with the entire cast of neocon zealots who continue to insist that someone else lost the war they couldn’t wait to start and can’t wait to escalate further. Dick Cheney and his neocon minions want all options on the table and “regime change,” and they just might get it in Washington D.C.
The politics are moving very fast in Washington — Republican’s are threatening to turn against the war by September — though that is not nearly fast enough for US troops in Iraq. At least 104 of our soldiers lost their lives there in April, while the toll on Iraqis was much higher. I wonder how the Republicans who continue to back their failed, incompetent President and his dishonest Vice President must feel as they watch the casualty figures; what do they think could happen by September that could possibly justify the hundreds of lives that will be lost by then, when they finally ask their Commander in Chief for accountability?
When even David Broder agrees the war is unwinnable, it’s time to stop risking our troops and get out as gracefully as possible — and ungracefully if not. In a post last evening, Phoenix Woman relayed General Odom’s Saturday radio address urging the President to sign the supplemental Iraq appropriation bill and accept the bill’s benchmarks, withdrawal timetables, and troop readiness conditions. But he won’t, and everyone knows it. And still they wait while more people die.
Last night, an AP story reported that President Bush is now willing to sit down with Democrats to discuss a “compromise” on the next Iraq supplemental appropriations bill — that is, the bill the Congress will presumably send him after he vetoes the one they just passed that fully funds the troops. He didn’t say how he’d compromise, and since he personally ruled out a timetable for withdrawal, which is what General Odom said was essential, we are left to wonder what Bush would give up. On Sunday, Secretary Rice, who’s having a tough time herself, appeared on ABC’s This Week and ruled out “benchmarks.”
WASHINGTON — Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said yesterday that President Bush will reject any attempt by Congress to require the Iraqi government to meet benchmarks as a condition for US troops remaining in Iraq, in a blow to emerging efforts to craft a compromise war-funding bill.
“What we don’t want to do . . . is to tie our own hands so that we cannot act creatively and flexibly to support the very policies in Iraq that we’re trying to enforce,” she said on ABC’s “This Week.” . . .
The president cited the need for clear benchmarks — agreed to in consultation with the Iraqi government — when he announced his troop “surge” plan earlier this year, but Rice made clear yesterday that the White House believes such benchmarks should not be made law.
“The problem is that if you try and make consequences about these benchmarks, you’re tying the hands of General [David] Petraeus and the hands of Ambassador [Ryan C.] Crocker,” Rice said.
Rice has a good reason to rule out binding benchmarks, and it has nothing to do with tieing Petraeus’ hands. She knows the Iraq “government” can’t deliver. That was made even clearer than it was by two stories Monday. In the first, the Washington Post reported that Prime Minister al Maliki’s government is upset by “nationalist” generals taking their jobs too seriously — by coming down too hard on Shiite militia, a move which caused Swopa to wonder if the Iraq government has its own Monica Goodling.
In the second story, the New York Times reported that a Sunni bloc was threatening to leave the government because it was doing too little to bring about reconciliation with Sunnis.
The largest bloc of Sunni Arabs in the Iraqi Parliament threatened to withdraw its ministers from the Shiite-dominated cabinet today in frustration over the Iraq government’s failure to deal with Sunni concerns.
President Bush stepped in to forestall the move, calling one of Iraq’s two vice presidents, Tariq al-Hashimi, a Sunni Arab, and inviting him to Washington, Mr. Hashimi’s office said in a written statement.
The bloc, known as the Iraqi Consensus Front and made up of three Sunni Arab parties, “has lost hope in rectifying the situation despite all of its sincere and serious efforts to do so,” the statement said.
If the Sunni group followed through on its threat, it would further weaken a government already damaged by the pullout two weeks ago of six cabinet ministers aligned with the renegade Shiite cleric Moktada al-Sadr and further erode American efforts to promote reconciliation between Sunnis and Shiites.
Yes, that’s our President — the one who announced over a year ago that full sovereignty had been restored to the Iraqis — calling up members of a sectarian party and personally urging them to remain in the al Maliki government of this sovereign nation.
I suppose that if you are the leader of a Sunni party in Iraq, and the President of the United States personally calls you, you’d at least take the call. But does anyone else in the White House honestly believe that George Bush has any credibility on Iraq at this point? Even Bush’s Saudi friends know that their favorite President can’t keep US troops in Iraq indefinitely, so they’re making other plans.
Meanwhile, the President’s National Security Advisor, who should be looking after things in Iraq, — after all the President and Vice President both said if we “lose” in Iraq it would be catastrophic for US security interests — is apparently too busy worring about other stuff, likely his reputation if Iraq is “lost” on his watch. So we learn in this touching NYT puff piece that the reserved Mr. Hadley is still looking for a “war czar” to do this job — or take the blame for failing. What a swell guy. You know the White House is in deep trouble when Dan Bartlett has to trot out Hadley as the only senior official who is not yet fully discredited.
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Zed
zap
Hey y’all, Nololo!
close… time to read.
Good morning all!
Just a drive-by as I go off to meet more people in the new congregation.
How’s the move going Scarecrow?
If they offered a combo title — War and Sex Czar, maybe they’d have takers.
Happy Mission-Accomplished-You-Know-That’s-Not- What-He-Meant-While-Standing-Under-The-Banner- That’s-Been-Doctored-Out-of-the-Video Day!
You know the White House is in deep trouble when Dan Bartlett has to trot out Hadley as the only senior official who is not yet fully discredited.
What color is the sky on the world where Stephen Hadley is not fully discredited?
. . . wonder what kind of photo op the Veto will provide.
RevDeb @ 5
Scarecrow – Where are you moving to?
Bush’s War: That was then, this is now: When the flag waving ends and reality sets in.
Bush has no mission in Iraq. For some reason, Repugs are just starting to realize that.
Why hasn’t there been more made of the terrorism report? Wasn’t that one of the reasons Bush wanted to invade Iraq? That’s what he said, anyway. What happened to that War on Terror anyway? Haven’t heard much about that one, probably because we’re losing it. You can never “win” a war on terror, but that’s really besides the point, right?
Wait! Hadley’s not fully discredited? When did that happen?
Bush’s compromise would be allowing the spending provisions which he refers to as pork. Remember, he gave two reasons for opposing the bill, so he has room there.
I, personally, would like to see congress fund the war for 3 months and keep the other spending in. He would have to sign it. Then, they could come back in September with timelines and dare the Repugs to oppose it.
Meanwhile, right now, before they send the 3 month bill, they should have a vote in the house to override his veto. That way, they get repugs on record as opposing funding the troops.
In 2004, when Bush was taking a beating on unemployment, he decided to name a ‘Jobs’ Czar(In the previous administration, ‘Jobs’ had been handled by a Czarina), Embarassingly, as always, he picked a notorious Ohio out-sourcer and we have gone Job Czarless ever since, Perhaps that guy would be interested in a couple of years of War Czaring?
Other Pat @ 8
I’m guessing from the Exxon-Mobil Rose Garden in the Haliburton White House.
I wish Bush would reinstate the draft. That would end the occupation in a hurry, believe me.
One veto against stem cell research in the name of protecting life, the other one against funding his troops, in the name of keeping them there and not protecting their life.
EPU’d from previous thread:
Report , just in time for Mission Accomplished Day, that the leader of al-Quaeda in Iraq has been killed.
Must be because they ran out of #3’s at al-Quaeda Central.
TiredFed @ 15
A better chance would be to have Congress force the contractors to use Iraqis to do the reconstruction.
Good morning, Happy Internatiinal Labor Day to all, don’t pay no mind to that ol’ Eisenhour instigation “Law Day”. he was a republican and you know how THEY think of the law, (like Leona Helmsley and her “little people, only good for).
Don’t expect any movement to withdraw US occupying terrorists until the “W”uss occupying the WH gets his hands on the OIL contract from the Iraqi “government”, the one with a lot of m-16s to their heads. Does the creatin think such a contract is enforcable anywhere? What do they teach these MBAs anyhow?
IMPEACH NOW
(does that count as a scream at the top of the lungs?)
Good Morning Scarecrow and Firedogs,
I believe Cheney’s Iran plans were thwarted or at least forestalled by elements within the military maybe even by Gates himself – these murderous thugs were perfectly willing to open another front in conjunction with the chaos and horror that is present day Iraq
Regime Change Begins At Home
Good morning gang. I’ve fixed a bunch of typos, product of functioning on only seven brain cells while I’m still in the process of moving. Any burglers out there? I may use you next time, in lieu of movers.
Perhaps the Preznut can tell us why he wants to stay longer, or would that be insider trading?
ifthethunderdontgetya @
7
Yeah, I thought about that, but I saw an article somewhere that said Barlett keeps wanting to get Hadley in front of the cameras, because they think he comes across well. You gotta wonder.
g’ morning all – coffee’s ready.
lisa — just a mile away from where I was. How stupid is that? I mean, if you’re going to all that trouble, you may as well move to Tajikistan.
This is my favorite story from today:
(originally posted on Juan Cole’s indispensible web site, Informed Comment):
yahoo.com link
The headline reads:
Iraq using Saddam-era law to block corruption probes: audit
The article goes on to detail how Maliki has enacted an old law to block investigations into his ‘government’s’ (LMFAO) corruption.
Yesterday, on C-Span and “The Newshour with Jim Lehrer”, Special Iraqi Inspector General Stuart Bowen (another old Bush crony from Texas, BTW) said that he has been informed by Iraqi ‘authorities’ that an average of $5 billion per year is ‘lost’ to corruption.
Yessireee, folks. Your tax dollars at work!
And this is the same Iraqi ‘government’ that’s about to take a much needed two-month vacation. And the same ‘folks’ who say that ‘time is irrelevant’.
So, Happy Mission Accomplished Day, Your Decidership! I hope you are able to wash the blood off your hands.
Good morning, Scarecrow!
You’ve got mail.
Scarecrow @ 26
No cardiac surgery there, if that matters.
ifthethunderdontgetya @
7
Whenever I see Hadley on the TeeVee, I always mistake him first for Fred Barnes, and wonder why I’m being tortured with having that fucktard working on my taxpaying dime. Then I realize it’s Hadley. I’m relieved…until I wonder why I’m being tortured with having that fucktard working on my taxpaying dime.
I forgot to say good morning to everyone and thanks for the post scarecrow. You know, I keep wondering how the Iraqi’s were able to unite to get out the vote. If there is so much confusion, it is so hard to believe that on Election Day, they all stood in line and the votes were properly tallied.
I don’t believe anything.
may I say Stephen Hadley has always given me the creeps – not the usual anger and disgust but the kind that raises the hair on the back of my neck -
Scarecrow @ 21
An auction. I recommend a complete household auction. Everything goes the day of the sale, nothing to move. Squirrel that away for your next move, just sell it all, schedule the cleaning crew for the day after the auction and you’re on your way.
ccmask @ 31
Argh. I’m no better this morning. Not enough tea yet (no drinkee coffee), I guess. So morning all, and thanks for the thought-provoking post, SC.
Wish the husband hadn’t eaten the last CM Cheese Danish. Now I don’t have breakfast! Oh wait… The son has Cranberry-Blueberry Muffins! I might try one of those…
LJ/Aquaria @ 34
Don’t tease me please. I’, on a diet and trying to get down this cup of dry bran. Sigh.
The coverage on ABC this morning was harsh, harsh. They refered to Iraq as a “disaster,” they mocked the Bush Carrier landing photo-op as naive, and they intercut footage of Bush under the “Mission Accomplished” banner with hellish footage of present chaos in Iraq, which made Bush look incredibly stupid. The most devastating thing, though, was a series of still photos of a boy, trying not to cry, while being given a folded flag by a sympathetic Marine. That photo should be the cover of the binder containing the spending bill. Bush should have to look at that at his veto photo-op.
cbl @ 32
The Bartlett notion that there are still credible people near the top of this Administration is interesting. Does he really believe it? Or is it just more of the charade? How could you be an honest person and still work for these people?
There must be an entire shadow government of dedicated professionals who started with Bush first term and have since resigned in disgust — and account themselves fortunate.
Oh…speaking of miserable failures, you FirePups did see that Ehud Olmert is under pressure to resign, that a cabinet member resigned saying he couldn’t work in an Olmert government?
Perhaps they are coming around and are going to show us how to get shet of neo-conservative leadership in a hurry.
so far bush’s idea of “compromise” is;
do it my way but say I gave in to you
frig that, I’ve posted this before and I hope pelosi reads here at the lake cuz she needs to do something like this;
“you vetoed the funding we gave our troops?
what, are you out of your mind?…how do you expect them to get the resources they need to complete the mission?
if you don’t want to give them the resources that is your prerogative as commander in chief but the American people won’t stand for it.
since you refuse to give the soldiers the resources necessary for their deployment we will send you a bill that will provide the resources necessary to bring them home
you have stretched them too thin, you have squandered the states assets and we need to replenish and renew our national security
we will send you the money for our troops one more time, the next time we will send you the funding to bring them home”
that’s what I want to see the first female president say to the current president
Scarecrow @ 26
Not so stupid. The best thing about moving is that you get rid of a bunch of crap that you haven’t used in the last 15 years.
At the end of August I’m moving out to a tiny town in Washington State called Pacific Beach for ten months or so. I’m going through most of my stuff right now and getting rid of anything that I haven’t touched in two years.
ccmask @ 34
I seriously doubt the diet meant that the bran had to be consumed dry; I think this is one of those things that requires you to think outside the bran box. Moisten the bran with enough warm water, nuke in the microwave for 20-40 seconds, sprinkle with a dusting of cinnamon and Splenda, eat like hot oatmeal.
Cinnamon is good for digestion and blood sugar management, too, next to nothing in calories since it’s only the ground bark of a tropical tree.
lisa — see Rayne’s suggestion of an auction. Makes sense.
cleter — thanks for the report on ABC — I hope all the networks do this all week long. There’s never been a regime that didn’t deserve to have their noses rubbed in it than this crew.
ccmask @ 35
Sorry. Guess I won’t mention what I found in the pantry instead, then…
Not to be too tinfoil-hatty, but sometimes I think Bush is purposely messing up the middle-east to provoke the “second coming”.
Years ago, when I was a kid, people used to talk about some famous medieval prognosticator’s prophesy that the WW-III would begin in the 1st years of the 21st century. These people were absolutely convinced they had no control and it was a done deal. I wouldn’t put it past Bush the moron to think he’s been chosen to fulfill a prophesy.
Does anyone know the status of the state impeachment efforts? Is Vermont’s the only one still active in the states’ legislatures?
I like John Edwards’ suggestion: After Bush vetoes this bill, send him a “compromise bill” with firmer deadlines.
Steve Clemons had a good article on Bush’s bunker mentality last night – very interesting – but the site is down this morning, so no link…
egregious — I’ve a good friend from Tajikistan — she says they’ve been cut off from Russia and are having trouble keeping the lights on more than a few hours a day. She’s dreading having to go back.
Ninbus @27
Bowen may be a crony from Texas, but he’s not been playing ball with the admimistration.
So much so, that they tried to let his term expire, until congress stepped in and put the brakes on that. How sad a state of affairs we’re in that the only thing that embarrasses the prez is competency.
Scarecrow, your friend has legitimate cause for concern. Extra caution is in order.
morning!
anyone know what’s the scoop with today’s senate intelligence committee hearing this afternoon, “Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act Modernization“?
not much info on the committee website. but, it’s scheduled to be on c-span3 at 2:30pm ET today.
TiredFed @ 16
There can be no draft because Bush has made it impossible to dodge by hiding in the National Guard like he did. Where would he park all the Bush kids or would his signing statement exclude them?
I’ve got purple blisters on my fingers!
HeirofPatriots @ 44
Ah, good old Nostradamus, the Mr. Potato Head of prognosticators, as Snopes.com termed him–i.e., if the parts (facts) don’t line up the way you want, rearrange them the way you want. Make it fit!
I have always found this whole czar construct bizarre. You know, the system worked so well for the Ruskies.
If Bush vetoes the funding for his war on Mission Accomplished Day, the irony will not be lost on ABC news, if the story this morning was any indication.
Murtha speaking on MSNBC
OldCoastie @ 55
how’s he doing? – no cable tv here
selise @ 57
He’s doing well – talking about the war spending bill, answering questions about his use of “impeachment”.
nobody feels pain more than mr and mrs bush.
the day begins in tragedy and ends in the marx brothers.
nobody feels pain more than mr and mrs bush
the day begins in tragedy and ends in the marx brothers
why waste his beautiful mind
why waste his beautiful mind
1€ = $1.3661 on 1 May 2007 – almost forgot
January 07 1€ = $1.29
February 07 1€ = $1.31
March 07 1€ = $1.34
April 07 1€ = $1.355
May 07 1€ = $1.37
.08 divided by 1.29 = 6% loss in value since New Years for the dollar against the Euro. It is starting to get significant.
I just want to comment that “Republickin’s are threatening to turn against the war by September” is a scam. And you’ve bought into it because a) it sounds resonable and b) it’s what you want to hear.
When September comes they will need until January and the until .. and then until… Don’t be fooled – the neocons count on you fooling yourselves.
Also, do you think it was even remotely possible that Kyle Sampson didn’t know that Fredo secretly signed power over to him and Goodling when he was in front of the Senate. What he knew was that the senate didn’t know to ask the question so he would never have to lie.
Sampson’s job was to throw the scent and your immediate angst onto Gonzo. Gonzo’s job was/is to slow the process to a crawl and make you focus your ansgt at him for a while. Goodling job is to create a Mount Everest to climb.
You are all being played to the tune that you will respond to.
Plato said that to lead, you must be lied to (The virtuous lie).
Machiavelli said that to acquire power lie to primal prejudges/fears of the governed.
You want revenge and your own power. Sampson gave you a taste but was an intentional liar. Gonzo gave you something to focus your anger on (him) with his (schemed to appear as) incompetence.
Now these unnamed Republickins give you hope (not). Stop being the dupes that Plato, Machiavelli, Cheney, Bush, Rove, and the neocons count on you being.
If you want change – take to the streets (peacefully).
Imagine if Paul Revere had decided that he would stay at home and write snark about the tories instead of making his ride.
How good he feel about himself. How useless. Don’t you feel good about yourself when you express angry about what going on.
Again, stop allowing yourselves to be fed the lies that you want to hear. Wake up and smell the neo-feudalism.
Sorry to take your angst driven feelgood away.
BTW. The most universal primal fear is over rapid change. Everyone wants predictable order to feel safe. Ask Broder about tradition in DC. The neocons own your fear on this one too. “Stay the course”, “time to make it work”, “If not improved by September”, “if we don’t … they will follow us here”, “destroy are way of life”, Strike now before Saadam bombs us”………………
Arnie @ 60
I’m surprised it took this long, we are printing so much paper it should have about as much value as toilet tissue
LJ/Aquaria @ 53
Have a sister heavy into that and xtian cults. Is there any cure for what appears to be terminal belief?
Rayne @ 41
Thanks for that info. I’m so unhappy *g*.
Scarecrow: Will Blackwater leave with the troops when withdrawal begins? If they do, will they be paid by US Corporations?
I note that it’s the AP that uses the word “compromise”; they don’t quote Bush saying it. Strange how they pretend that compromise has anything to do with it, when he’s previously said he won’t give in on anything, and they also report that he is:
In other words, it’s Bush’s usual definition of “compromise” and “bipartisanship”: everyone works together to do what I want.
I have to vehemently disagree with almost everyone here about “Mission Accomplished.”
When Bush landed on that aircraft carrier and gave that speech, it was absolutely, 100% true that the mission had been accomplished.
That is, if you mean “Mission” the same way Steve Martin in The Jerk meant “you can have any prize you see” when he was working the Guess Your Weight attraction at the carnival, and then proceeded to narrow down “any prize” to this shelf, right here, between the stuffed animals and the coffee mugs, that is, everything right in this area right here, but not counting the pencils or the keychains. Leaving, if I recall correctly chewing gum as “any prize you see.”
Of course, the President is correct that we can still win in Iraq–I really believe that–and to do so, we don’t need anything more in the way of policy or strategy than we already have in place.
We don’t need anything.
Except this ashtray.
And that’s it and that’s the only thing we need, is this. We don’t need this or this. Just this ashtray.
And this paddle game, the ashtray and the paddle game and that’s all we need. And this remote control.
The ashtray, the paddle game, and the remote control, and that’s all we need.
And this thermos…
Other Pat @ 6
LOL I’m not sure the timings right, Palfrey’s clients are hiding in caves these days…but then maybe they could find Osama…
Cheney Mission (Phase I) Accomplished.
Middle East destabilized;
oil prices up 500% from 2001;
record military/contractor spending;
record EXXONMOBIL/HALLIBURTON profits;
fear and loathing across the globe.
“Let them hate us as long as they fear us.” – Caligula
Nicollo macPlato @ 60
Nicollo, do you really take us for such fools? I wonder that you spent this much effort on us, then.
And aren’t you indulging in a little concern trolling, the kind that “Republickin” folk are want to do when we believe we are beginning to see some smattering progress?
I really, really hate not closing italics properly. Hate it. I’m using the word “hate” here.
[Mod: Refresh the page. To use italics, highlight the word or phrase before pushing the button, then preview and check to see that the opening [em] is paired with a closing [/em]with the all important ” / ” thanks]
Perris @ 62
The market may be a lagging indicator here. I suspect the trade earnings are being shipped back to *all Street and sustaining that bubble for a bit.
Phoenix Woman @ 45
I like Murtha’s. Fund the war for a month or two and make the Pres ask again.
ccmask @ 63
this will not make you happy. from Jeremy Scahill and Tom Engelhard, “A Democratic Sellout on Bush’s Mercenaries”.
in case ya missed it in yesterday’s threads -
Senator Jim Webb (D – Sane)
h/t pow wow
http://thomas.loc.gov/r110/r110.html
mods forgive me, I am suddenly having trouble with embedding links – am working on it
ooh Selise – thanks so very much for the Scahill link – am still waiting on the book :)
[Mod: in this order:
[a href=”
httpwhateverreallylongthinghere
“]
short name
[/a]
With carats in place of [ and ]
That should do it.]
Good one Atkinson. I’ll take the ashtray and a gallon of gas. Remember when they were thinking of giving us all a $100. bill for our troubles. I guess one morning we’d wake up and it would be on our nightstand and we wouldn’t remember the kiss.
ccmask @
31
The Iraq election is easy to understand, if properly framed (re-framed?).
It was run by Bush & Co. In it’s entirety. That’s the proper framing. That’s the punchline.
That’s really all you need to know. I mean really…a national election organized, executed & counted by Bush & Co?
It was the joke of the Century, but for some strange reason, nobody laughed.
And, as we now know, a $100. bill can’t even buy a massage.
T. Atkinson @ 69
Um, I think many of us here in FDL do believe that the mission was accomplished four years ago. They completely pulled the f*cking wool over the eyes of Congress and a scant majority of the American public, parceled out energy resources in Iraq and here in the U.S., and set about the destruction of government as we’ve known it. Mission Accomplished.
I would hazard a bet that our only quibble here in FDL is exactly what was the mission the Bushistas set out to accomplish; we may agree on Cheney’s mission, but on that day, four years ago, I suspect Bush’s mission was simply to show up on the flight deck in a jumpsuit in keeping with his stature as a fraud and fake.
Mission Accomplished.
Niccollo at 61: You must be new here, because you obviously haven’t read much of what gets written here, and you haven’t a clue about what I think. You caught me at a bad moment, cause normally I’d say, “welcome.” But since you caught me on a bad day, I can’t begin to tell you have much we all appreciate being told we’re a bunch of fools, taken in by scam artists. Who’d a thought?
However, I feel better knowing you’re here to enlighten us.
old gold @
54
The czar biz is booming; Gonzo authorized a czarito and czarita. Personell is coming out of FallGuys’R’Us.
Rayne @ 41 — thanks for the tip! I’m also trying to lose weight with the goal (this time) of excellent health. I’m going low-glycemic heart healthy. I’ve heard stevia is a good sugar substitute, but havent tried it yet. Will break out the cinnamon for sure!
ccmask @ 76
100 bucks buys one hour of a social-only escort with someone not unlike Monica Goodling or Karen Hughes, and a crappy pizza.
For that alone the Republicans should vacate Washington.
Rayne
Yes and yes
Don’t you feel better now.
I hosted 2 years of progressive talk radio. I gave it up when I understood I wasn’t making a difference.
Not an excuse – just an insight. I’m only a tiny bit different then you. If a didn’t have empathy for humanity, I could even be a neocon.
OT, but really not…
Lou Dobbs was positively bloggish this morning on CNN. Talking about the “mainstream media” not using critical thinking, not being skeptical, pushing agendas… it was on the single topic issue that Dobbs is focused on: illegal immigration.
If only the MSM would take heed of his prodding on, oh, say, eye-raq…or AGAG…or Bushie…. critical thinking, healthy skepticism…the mind boggles. Next thing you know, they’ll ask follow-ups.
Dobbs also noted that if there’s such a labor shortage that we have to have illegal immigration, why are wages going down in key sectors where illegal immigrants work?
libertydrone @ 79
The mod should light up a zig czar.
Absolutely YES to benchmarks. No compromise on that. Hell’s bells, the Iraqi “government” is about to start a TWO MONTH RECESS!!! WTF?! They have no room for a single day off and they intend to all take two months off…clearing brush?
At this point, I’d go along with no benchmarks IF it simply meant getting out NOW, ignoring the Iraqi “government’s” competence, progress, etc. There isn’t any. Benchmarks must remain if withdrawal timetable is to remain. Benchmarks can go only if it means pulling the troops ASAP – as fast as can be accomplished in orderly fashion.
THAT’S the compromise to offer Bush.
Nicollo macPlato @
83
Empathy begins right here. Stop insulting people if you want to stick around.
Nicollo macPlato @ 61
The reason we’re willing to believe that some substantial portion of them might actually turn against the war by September is because the country is turning against it, and they’re smart enough politicians to know that if they wait until just before the election to support the people instead of Bush, they’ll look opportunistic and weak. In other words, because it’s in their craven self-interest, not because it’s sane policy that they should rationally support.
Dude, don’t come here and lecture us about what we need to do to bring about change. We’re not just sitting here navel-gazing; we’ve done a hell of a lot to bring about change. There’s a reason presidential candidates come here to chat. Taking to the streets (peacefully) has its place, and many of us do that, too, but it’s been, in your own words, “useless” in stopping this war because we have a government that ignores it if hundreds of thousands take to the streets, and a media that lets them. Change didn’t come about until we made it happen by winning elections and pressuring lawmakers, much of it in this very medium.
Sorry to giant-puppet feelgood away, but you’re not fucking Paul Revere. Fuck off.
Rayne
I should have said yes and no.
Anyway – hope is better then progress
ccmask @ 77
At least the ‘market’ is soaring……or maybe not really! (scroll)
Scarecrow @ 79
SC – have another cuppa coffee. LOVE YOUR POST! Screw the trolls…check that…FUCK THE TROLLS. PEACE to all of us.
P.S. Moving sucks. You have my sympathies.
[Mod: Please think twice before calling someone a troll.]
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 52
Well do you, don’t you want me to ‘free’ you?
Halliburton’s here and we’re coming to bleed you…
Nicollo macPlato @ 83
Sure you are. And I’m the King of Sweden.
I’ll stop feeding the troll now.
Prairie Sunshine @ 84
Good God — if this keeps up, Dobbs might actually start backing the SEIU and unions in general! (At which the US Chamber of Commerce hunts him down like a dog.)
Here is where our problem lies. Google Zeitgeist tracks the most popular searches in the US. It also does it for other countries. Read it & weep, as Christy would say:
From Google:
zeitgeist | Pronunciation: ‘tsIt-”gIst, ‘zIt
Meaning: the general intellectual, moral, and cultural climate of an era.
Gaining Search Queries: Week Ending April 28, 2007
1. earth day
2. blue angels
3. katie price
4. jessica lynch
5. skybus
6. pokemon diamond
7. coachella
8. mike penner
9. new planet
10. mother’s day
Solai @ 72
Let’s have both.
It’s a floor wax! It’s a dessert topping!
Happy MA Day………FLASHBACK ~ History re-written by the WH.
Just in, Chimpy on the newsradio: “I will veto, case closed”.
So much for the question of whether or not he’ll seize the opportunity.
Phoenix Woman @ 94
I’ve always felt Lou could be a very good demogogue; he just needs a better cause. Maybe we should send in suggestions.
My Loving Mods: I hear ya. Got a little crazy for a minute since it’s Mission Accomplished Day and all!
ccmask @ 95
Hey, at least “earth day” is #1.
Badwater @
51
Speaking of “signing statements” – why doesn’t Bush just sign the Iraq funding bill and add a statement saying he won’t abide by benchmarks? It’s worked for him in the past, without any consequences, as far as I can tell.
OT
Hey Jane, here’s some pictures of Sean’s trip to the whorehouse.
In case his name pops up on 20/20 any time soon.
http://colorado-bob.blogspot.c…..trage.html
Would everyone please just take a deep breath?
Nicollo has commented here before, and while he may not have expressed himself in the wisest manner, the content does not rise to troll level.
The name calling is getting out of hand. Stop, ok?
Niccolo,
How strange it is to just decide you’ve made no difference-you send your ideas and passion out there, and motivate and inspire. How can you say that hasn’t happened? It sounds like you pulled the plug on yourself out of impatience and a lack of faith in yourself.
You forgot the most likely option – the path that has been so successful in the past – the “option” that has rewarded them so well.
THEY CAN CONTINUE TO LET THE MSM “CATAPULT THE PROPAGANDA” AND LIE, EFFECTIVELY STALLING AND SHORT-CIRCUITING ANY MEANINGFUL CHALLENGE.
ALL THE WHILE – THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX WILL CONTINUE TO REAP BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN PROFITS – MUCH OF IT UNACCOUNTED FOR IT.
Its easy money if you can get it – its also the motive for ALL wars – something IKE (a republican 5-star general) warned this country about.
COLORADO BOB @ 103
Good lord. They all look like Fred Thompson’s wife.
Not really OT. I got a forwarded email titled America at a Crossroads about people needing to speak up for peace. The line that killed me was “Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don’t speak up.” I, in turn, emailed my relative the link to the Salon review of PBS “America at a Crossroads”.
The wingnuts don’t frustrate me as much as good, intelligent americans who buy into simplistic emails like that one. It talked about fanatics & extremists from the past but no mention of american fanatics & extremists. It lays the quest for peace squarely on Muslims alone. America’s and american’s roles, peace efforts or taking responsibility for this mess aren’t even mentioned. Muslims should speak up for peace but when americans do they are unpatriotic. What a disconnect.
Nicollo macPlato @ 82
Well — now there’s your problem. You were buried alive in an industry that has been completely coopted by the neo-cons, and you think we don’t know it?
Jeebus, why do you think we’re here in the internet instead?
Let me guess that you don’t regularly meet with other progressives face-to-face to work on taking back local government, for starters. I think that was my tipping point, in November of 2004, when I was completely and utterly despondent. I took the advice of a man to whom I looked up to as a role model, and got to work, rolled up my sleeves. I was fortunate to find a few comrades in arms who also did the same at the same time. And now we are becoming a force to reckon with, are beginning to see the fruits of our efforts in local government and in the ranks of state government. We are beginning groundwork to do more to impact national politics. And I know now that what is needed is less complaining and more hands-on work.
I discovered that for most of my adult life, I incorrectly assumed there were adults in charge of politics. Nothing could be further from the truth; there were no rational adults in charge of my local party, let alone most of local government, and it extended outward. But I also discovered that I, and others like me, were the adults that were missing. We failed to do our jobs as citizens in a democracy. And I refuse to fail any longer, because I have little people here watching me who not only require the protections of an active and engaged citizenry, but need to learn not to let their guard down, need to learn that active citizenship is a natural part of our lives as Americans.
If anybody needs a boot in the *ss, it’s not me. If anybody needs a boot here at FireDogLake, it’s not most of the regulars here who give time, money and more to restore the active component to citizenry.
Hannity the Hair Helmet’s little tirade gives evidence that the neo-cons are feeling the bites we inflict. I am ready for more, smell blood in the water. And I refuse to be put off from my next bite by other’s bitterness when I have proof locally and nationally that we are making a difference.
We’d like the next step to be a change in the White House, but after a lifetime of disengagement from our own citizenship, we can hardly expect miracles overnight. Taking back Congress in the course of two years was a pretty nice start — and my own personal objective this next 2 years is help to take back a veto-proof majority in the Senate, so it matters not who is in the White House. Lead, follow, or get out of the way.
Scarecrow @ 99
He’s already made the connection between a higher minimum wage, plus enforcement directed against employers of undocumented workers, as a good way to combat illegal immigration.
For him to go against his Republican ethos and back not only a minimum wage, but an INCREASED minimum wage, was a titanic step. Making the jump from that to backing unions (again, as a way to combat illegal immigration by providing living wages for US residents) might be a touch harder, but this may be a case where his own xenophobia/Hispanophobia can be leveraged to do the deal: “Which do you prefer, Lou: Unionized ‘Murkins’ making a living wage and no illegals, or no unions and tons of illegals?”
All – sorry to have upset the statusquo here. Didn’t know it was a good old boy club. David Broder would be comfortable here.
For all who thought my intent was to insult – I apologize.
I’ll leave now – go back to your echo chamber.
BTW. I am not a troll. I just thought that the Republickin lie de jour might have served to point out the neocon modus operendi.
How about you tell me why 30% of the American public can’t tell the difference betweem shinola and a hole in the ground. Oh, and you have to do it without pointing out that they so stupid that they can be fooled by Bushlies/Rovelies/Neoconlies every time.
Phoenix Woman:
Hey, at least “earth day” is #1.
True story :))
Impeach Cheney for manufacturing and presenting fraudulent Iraq WMD evidence to Congress and the American people.
Top 10 Gaining Queries
September 2001
1. nostradamus
2. cnn
3. world trade center
4. osama bin laden
5. taliban
6. afghanistan
7. nimda
8. american flag
9. bbc
10. fbi
What a difference a day makes…
COLORADO BOB @ 103
But — but he was just there to get a massage! Honest! Watch out, or he’ll be forced to go to Central Americans for his massages!
He didn’t say how he’d compromise
The compromise on his part is agreeing to meet with the Democrats to tell them once again that they’d better give him what he wants. The compromise he wants from them in return is being given what he wants.
CSPAN had Thomas Sullivan esq about Gitmo and habeas. Good man. Doing pro bono for several in detention. History includes defense late in the HUAC era (1968?!).
Most callers were onboard. Only a couple called him a terrorist sympathiser, etc.
What are Harry and Nancy planning to celebrate this historic occasion and anniversary? What do they have up their sleeves? I think they are learning how to play this game and now know exactly how to push the Decider’s buttons.
Pass the popcorn.
Must Not Feed . . .
Great post, scarecrow!!
Phoenix Woman @ 92
!!! Yes!!!
Gunga Djinn @
98
Well, if he wants to slit his own throat, then we must oblige and hand him a razor.
Oh, and for you Daily Show writers, here’s some material: Broken Record (and Policy) Alert: Bush, GOP keep yammering about nonexistent ‘progress’ in Iraq
Hadley was one of the main guys for the Chimperor’s SOTU speech who kept shoveling the Niger bullsh*t back into the drafts when the CIA told ‘em to take it out. He’s fully discredited. He’s a full blown perpetrator.
Morning gang — fresh thread. And please, for my sake, leave behind the finger pointing. Let the moderators worry about what does or does not need moderating. Finger pointing this early in the morning is tedious, at best. Thanks.
Christy’s got a new thread for us.
House Judiciary To Vote On Comey Subpoena Today
Nicollo macPlato @ 110
I would like to recommend two texts to you:
A Brief History of Everything, by Ken Wilber
Spiral Dynamics, by Don Beck and Chris Cowan.
They are tough sledding, mind you, not for lightweights. But they will explain that there is a distribution curve, that humans have a tendency to emerge and regress psychologically at both individual and societal levels in predictable fashion, and that the distribution curve generally means there are always a resistent 30% for reasons outlined in those two texts.
The real trick is this: WE can’t emerge to our next level of development, unless we take that 30% upwards at the same time.
Individuals and societies regress primarily out of fear, the kinds of fears that are well outlined in Mazlow’s hierarchy of needs. Resolve the problems that force the lower 30% to shrink in fear, and you will be able to progress yourself.
It doesn’t happen by being locked in one’s own fear, either, no matter where one is on the distribution curve of emergence.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 120
Tell me tell me TELL ME we’re dandy
And don’t forget to greet us with flowers and candy — look out!
Blank Kludge @ 117
I thought he did a great job explaining the dynamic between the Bush policy, the courts and thelaw Congress passed last year allowing for military tribunals but not habeas corpus. He had real credibility when he said (roughly) “If these people were allowed their day in court, and the government had to present its evidence, they would all be sent home.”
Rayne 109 and others
One more post.
Rayne 109 – Here here.
To all – yes I’m fustrated but I didn’t give up. I don’t post anywhere often, but I do keep up.
I will say that I hope I got you thinking.
Rayne 109 – Here here, Here here, Here here.
Nicollo, I hope you will stay with us and that we can all develop some mutual respect for each other’s hard work.
Nicollo macPlato @ 111
sometimes the posts here are more mainstream than I perhaps agree with. Often they are not.
but my observation is that many many people here are systematically involved in altering the system we don’t care for all that much. Which is a ‘positive.’ A bona-fide positive!
OT – Steve Clemons on a recent gathering of bigshot Repugs with the shrub and his bunker mentality:
off to work, have a good one, pups…
Nicollo — most of us at FireDogLake are here because we are well beyond thinking about it.
We are here because we are doing something about it.
Be watchful for the next projects to emerge from the Roots Project (http://www.staterootsproject.org); be here to discuss our progressive values at Jane’s much-needed FDL Book Salons. Be here to get the truth, live, as it happens, as we did with the Libby Trial. Be here to discuss with incumbents and candidates in Book Salons and Blue America posts the next steps needed to take back our country. This is doing, in progress, not just thinking.
Keep the faith.
Phoenix Woman @
122
If you think that was good, go to Bill Moyer’s journal check out this interview he did with Jon Stewart last Friday. Jon is one of us. I don’t mean he is particularly ideological. I mean he is one of *us*.
David Satterfield, State Dept Iraq Coordinator just said that “southern Iraq is a good place to invest” There is no way the Iraqi government will be able to pull off what he is talking about re” the hydrocarbon law, etc.
Phoenix Woman @ 127
hey You’re on a roll!!! :-)
Nicollo macPlato @ 111
Whoa! It seems that Nicollo macPlato has struck a nerve. Y’all are scaring me. What did Sally Quinn say? “This is our town” and “you’re trashing it” or something like that. Didn’t know the same was true here.
Dearest Firepups,
Out of respest to CHS, I’m posting this here and not above. In as much as it is difficult to Turn The Other Cheek, I’m sharing this bit of astral advice from today’s horoscopes:
However, this morning can bring a powder keg of emotions as Mars parallels Uranus (3:46AM PDT). Whenever these two planets come into a dynamic interchange, psychic thunderstorms become more prevalent throughout humanity. Projecting anger onto others is a no-no. Strive for serenity and be extra sensitive to dear ones on the edge.
Hope this helps some move on with a smile.
s/Republican’s/Republicans/
Compromise with Bush? It is to laugh. He sees this as yet another challenge to his will power, that indomitable force that carries all before it, that sword of the Archangel Michael that slays the evil in front of all of us and leads us into safety.
What he needs is a good dose of Nancy Pelosi’s mother of 5 voice and a few rounds in the ring with Uncle Harry.
Don’t you think that the mood of the country is worsening every day and that a veto will enrage most Americans and maybe even the media? No more ‘He’s standing tough’. Instead it will be “Stubborn, pig-headed, isolated, delusional etc”
dmoore @
138
Thanks, dmoore, interesting in light of the pending Judiciary Committee meeting to consider subpoena of James Comey — that’s the topic upstairs, by the way. Thanks for posting downstairs.
BTW, how long does Mars parallel Uranus? hours, days, longer?
T. Atkinson @
66
In fact, the invasion’s stated mission, “to disarm Saddam of WMD,” had been accomplished years before by Bill Clinton.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 131
sometimes the posts here are more mainstream than I perhaps agree with. Often they are not.
because of course I am in fact a perfect blend of che guevera and the sex pistols just safetypinning my way to revolution
which explains the new pair of beige-tan ‘Dockers.’
Wigwam @ 143
let’s get this right and it helps our cause to talk about this with the correct credits;
this president’s father initiated the programs to eliminate the saddam threat and clinton continued the process
give this preseident’s father the original credit and it’s hard for the neo cons to argue
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 144
Them Dockers are the perfect camouflage to get you into those “friendlies-only” Bushie events, you know. Just wear a white Polo-brand polo shirt with Bass loafers and you’re in the door. Um, but you might want to use some pancake makeup on the tattoo and leave the studs out of your piercings, jus’ sayin’. Oh, and no black hoodies. Been there, done that, have an FBI file I’m sure will prove it.
Solai @ 141
the question is, what will Republican Senators think? Are there enough of them who are sick and tired of Bush saying “it’s my way or the highway?”
I hosted 2 years of progressive talk radio. I gave it up when I understood I wasn’t making a difference.
That’s because most of us “leftists” are pretty good at deciding for ourselves what we think about a given topic. We don’t need Rush Limbaugh to feed us the party line.
That’s why Bartcop is having so much trouble making a go of his radio show – most leftists aren’t wired like conservatives, who need constant reinforcement of the correctness of their viewpoint.
Them Dockers are the perfect camouflage to get you into those “friendlies-only” Bushie events, you know. Just wear a white Polo-brand polo shirt with Bass loafers and you’re in the door.
Rayne
————–
And a button that says ‘Now Watch this Swing!’
Rayne @ 142
Oh, I’m no expert. I just read ‘em.
I check 1) certain horoscopes 2) some editorial cartoons, then 3) FDL.
Here’s the link to the Cosmic Calendar I check out:
http://horoscopes.astrology.co…..copes,ltcc
I check out the Cosmic Calendar and OpEd Cartoons to check my context before I have the nerve to delve into subjects which may cause me distress. Also, to decide whether to go with coffee or herbal tea. Tee Hee.
cleter @
36
Well ABC has the clientlist.
lisadawn82 at 40
love Pac Beach and Moclips, vacation there every fall with my sister.
long time lurker, fdl gives me the adult conversation I crave. Thanks, all.
cleter @ 36
From your lips to Pelosi’s and Reid’s ears!
Solai @ 72
They’re both good ideas. Why not combine them?
I’m surprised by the lack of focus by Dems on the vote to override. I am not sure they are even going to have that vote. Such is a political mistake because it will put the focus where it belongs just as much as on Bush, on congressional Republicans.
I had a daydream today. There was a successful override vote and Bush announces that he isn’t going to withdraw the troops. I think that such would happen. Talk about constitutional crisis! I wonder if that is on the minds of some GOP congress critters. Probably not, but it should be.