Anonymous Liberal caught a doozy of an e-mail in the Friday DoJ docudump:
Yes, that's an instruction to delete documents. And notice the date: February 12, 2007. That's well after Congress began investigating this matter. I don't believe any subpoenas or document requests had yet been issued (someone please correct me if I'm wrong about that), but it was pretty clear by then that document requests were likely.
Let's review the timeline. On January 17, 2007, Senators Feinstein and Leahy grilled Alberto Gonzales on the recent spate of U.S. Attorney firings. On January 25, 2007, Senator Schumer announced that he was going to hold hearings on the firing of U.S. Attorneys. And on February 6, Schumer held the first set of hearings, in which Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty testified that Bud Cummins was not asked to leave for "performance-related" reasons, but rather to make way for Karl Rove protege Tim Griffin. That damaging testimony helped propel this story to the front pages.
And two days later, on February 8, 2007, Senators Durbin, Schumer, Murray, and Reid sent a follow up letter to Alberto Gonzales asking all sorts of questions arising out of McNulty's testimony, including a number of questions about the replacement of Bud Cummins with Tim Griffin.
It is in this context that Monica Goodling, four days later, sends out the above-displayed email, which attaches updated talking points re: Griffin/Cummins and various other U.S. Attorney related issues and instructs the recipients to delete prior versions of the documents.
As a litigator, I can tell you, that's a real no-no. You never instruct people to delete documents that are relevant to a pending investigation. Never. That's true even when the investigating body hasn't yet got around to requesting those documents. It smacks of obstruction. Indeed, the Obstruction of Congress statute, 18 U.S.C § 1505, specifically prohibits any attempts to obstruct "the due and proper exercise of the power of inquiry under which any inquiry or investigation is being had by either House, or any committee of either House or any joint committee of the Congress." The penalty is up to 5 years in prison.
I'm not sure if 18 U.S.C § 1505 has been interpreted to apply to the destruction of documents that have not yet been formally requested–I suspect it hasn't–but it is, at the very least, incredibly dodgy to be instructing people to delete documents that relate to a pending Congressional inquiry. If an employee of a private entity were caught giving such an instruction after an investigation had been initiated, it would incur the everlasting wrath of the government agency or prosecutor's office conducting that investigation. It would be a real mess. (emphasis mine)
Suddenly, all those e-mails in the custody of the RNC take on an even more urgent context — because there may well be a number of documents which have been deleted from the DoJ included in the e-mail stream in and out of the White House political shop which were sent back and forth through the RNC servers.
And, in the context of a potential attempt to obstruct an ongoing Congressional investigation and, now, a very real question of criminal obstruction? Well, that claim of executive privilege just lost a whole lot of lustre, didn't it?
Beyond that, emptywheel has a compendium of information which still has not been provided. (Gee, could it be because it was deliberately deleted? You have to ask yourself that in the context of the Goodling e-mail, don't you?) And a great piece on the FBI Special Agent In Charge and Carol Lam.
And Charlie Savage of the Boston Globe finds evidence that the scheme to replace USAttys through an appointment that end-runs the Senate approval process goes all the way back to 2003. (H/T to Blank Kludge for the link.) Seems to me it is well past time to ask just exactly how that provision got slipped into the Patriot Act — every little detail, no matter how uncomfortable that might be for Sen. Specter and Sen. Hatch, among others. Because the public has a right to know just exactly how and why our Constitutional system of checks and balances was attempted to be subverted by folks loyal to the Bush Administration.
And, while we're at it, isn't it time for the Republicans in both houses of Congress to realize that the Bush Administration held them in such low regard that the Bushies thought they could do pretty much anything — including inserting friendly provisions in bills — that enabled them to end-run the requirement of advice and consent? Honestly, is there anything more embarrassing as a Republican Senator than to know that your leadership was so in question for the Bush White House politicos, that you were considered a neutered, cuckholded legislator who would neither have the power nor the will to do anything about these actions?
That your role in running Congress, the separation of powers and questions of accountability were considered to be non-applicable to the Bush Administration because they knew — they KNEW — that the GOP-controlled Congress would enable them to do whatever they wanted and wouldn't hold them publicly accountable for any overreach? Isn't it time for some sort of institutional honor from someone? Do you have no pride — or did you sell it for a few pieces of K Street silver and a pat on the head from Mssrs. Rove and Norquist?
Honestly, doesn't anyone on that side of the aisle have any pride in their role in government and their fiduciary obligation to uphold the principles on which this nation was founded, including their Constitutional duty of oversight? Now is the time to stand up and be counted, if so — because, if you don't, you are nothing more than a cog in the Republican machine that tried to pervert our justice system to their own political ends. And you ought to be ashamed of your role in this, if nothing else.
Here are my questions, just of the top of my head:
– Was Goodling being an obstructionist moron on her own, or was she directing the destruction of evidence under the control of the Department of Justice under someone else's direction?
– If so, whose?
– Was a similar instruction given at the White House political shop run by Rove?
– Can the White House Counsel's office be exempted from questions either, considering Harriet Miers involvement in this mess?
– How soon will Congress be given discovery of the RNC cache of e-mails? Because, the way I see it, nothing short of full disclosure is appropriate here, both for Congressional oversight and for what should now be a criminal investigation?
– Speaking of criminal investigations, is it time to discuss a special counsel investigation?
– What, exactly, was Goodling trying to hide with the deletion of all those e-mails? For whom was she hiding it?
– Should the House Judiciary Committee go foward with a grant of immunity for Goodling at this point? Can it be sufficiently narrowed to prevent interference with a criminal investigation?
– Isn't it convenient that this particular e-mail was disclosed after the House Judiciary Committee voted for Goodling's immunity? Could it be that this was strategically disclosed in order to construct a potential barrier to her testimony? If so, to whose benefit would this accrue? Who has the most to gain from silencing Goodling publicly?
– On what day and time would Mr. Rove like to testify under oath and publicly about his role in all of this? Ditto for Ms. Miers?
What questions do you have at this point? I know there are a lot more of them swirling through my cynical mind, but I'd like to hear yours.
PS: Howie's guest for Blue America today will be Rep. John Hall at 2:00 pm ET/11:00 am PT. And Bob Geiger has the Saturday cartoons.
Related posts:
- Washington Post: Rove More Involved in US Attorney Firings Than He Claims
- Mike Ross’s Lucrative Deal with Large Pharmacy Chain Raises Cash, Eyebrows
- Some Alleged 9/11 Plotters to be Tried in SDNY, Storehouse of Evidence Untainted by Torture
- The History of the Conspiracy to Link Obama to Triggers
- Who really bombed Pan Am 103?: Evidence The US Bought The Megrahi Conviction





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Hey!
DELBERT!
That someone who was working for the DoJ asked people to delete evidence makes me beyond angry. I needed to say that out loud.
If this doesn’t make Congress get a grip and DO SOMETHING I don’t know what it will take.
Act now, or disband, those are the choices I see.
So what’s with the “rolling disclosures”, anyway? I still can’t figure out what their justification is for not turning over everything at once. “Damn, that e-mail makes us look REALLY bad” is not a legal defense for withholding documents, as far as I know.
As for Monica Goodling, she’s officially over-a-barrel now. She’s a former DOJ lawyer, for Pete’s sake. She’s going to have an awfully hard time saying she didn’t know any better. Her best defense right now seems to be, “Can’t you see I’m blond?!” Good luck with that one. You need a lot more than just “use immunity” right now, Monica. Cut a deal while you still can.
Unbelievable. Can they cancel her immunity deal right now? She deserves no immunity.
Jenny at 6 — The deal only goes into effect if and when they issue a subpoena for her, which they have not yet done. So they can cancel the deal at any time before they issue the subpoena. Conyers is playing this one by the book — and good for him.
She’s definitely got some splaining to do, doesn’t she? And she cain’t hide behind the 5th no more, can she?
If she refuses to answer, she goes to jail until she agrees to answer. Since she wouldn’t have made decisions to delete docs on her own, somebody ordered her to do it.
Now, I wonder who that person could be?
Let’s see . . . Could the last name start with R and end in E with two little ol’ letters in between, such as O and V?
Brutus is an honorable man and Brutus wouldn’t do something like that.
Even more interesting is the fact that they were altering the material.
“These are the new and updated VERSIONS”!!!
Excuse me…wouldn’t the Congressional Investigators want the ORIGINAL VERSIONS? Thus they not only were DELETING DOCUMENTS but also REVISING THEM prior to the coming Conresssional requests.
This is pretty clear evidence of OBSTRUCTION of Justice and intentionally providing false and misleading information to Congress!
Christy, ahh, that’s a relief. Thanks for the info.
cinnamonape—They can’t even obstruct competently. Get these clowns out of there.
Christy Hardin Smith @
3
Christy, you have to remember Goodling got her law degree from Regent U., where they teach “fourth tier” law. Can’t blame the poor girl too much if she wasn’t taught legal ettiquette in the midst of an investigation, can you?
It should be no surprise to anyone the lengths these criminals will go to to get what they want and to protect themselves. Just because something has been deleted doesn’t mean that it has really been deleted. It is probably there somewhere. The right people need to find it or the right person needs to come forward with it.
Jenny from the Blog @
6
True, but it is important that Goodling be compelled to provide as much information as possible as soon as possible.
Mason at 8 — Actually, she can and probably should hide behind the 5th in terms of incriminating herself any further. If I were her attorney, I’d advise her to keep her mouth shut about this conduct. But there is a question as to whether she could testify about other matters that do not relate to potential criminal conduct and whether the committee could tailor the offer of immunity to cover those aspects and not get into the aspects in which she could potentially be criminally implicated. It would be a very complicated negotiation, though. And it raises a lot of questions as to whether they would want to still do this or not.
Which makes me all the more curious about who happened to dump out this particular e-mail at this particular time…
Two very basic questions (IAONAL=o for obvously!):
1. Simply put, what is “use immunity”
2. Is the ability to limit immunity done by using a standard set of levels of immunity, or is it within the purview of the person offering the immunity to limit it with clauses specifically designed for the person to whom the limited immunity is being offered OR is it a combination.
Thanks!!
I was sucked into the world of DOJ documents on the second friday night dump. Sick and bundled up suffering, I spent friday night, Sat & half on Sunday reviewing the docs and the comments over at TPMmuckraker. I knew then that this was going to be the MOTHERLOAD of evidence if finally we can get all the documents.
WHY?
If you know you have committed colossal crimes, subverted the Constitution,War crimes, and crimes against humanity, just how do you get away with it?
1. Destroy the evidence
2. Remake the justice system to your benefit
3. Appoint friendly judges
AND…..always going back to the NSA spying… what do they have on whom that will destroy someone in their life to make sure that person DOES what they ask…
I have two lines from movies coming to mind and I’m not sure which is most pertinent.
1. From Animal House, when Kevin Bacon is being paddled: “Thank You Sir May I Have Another!”
OR
2. From Full Metal Jacket, when the R. Lee Ermey character is raggin’ on Private Joker: “Why I bet you don’t even have the common courtesy to offer him a reach-around!”
Either one should encapsulate the contempt the administration has for Congress, regardless of party.
Permanent. Republican. Majority.
.
{Shiver}……WOW, that was close.
Hot damn! This is getting REAL interesting. Looks like the next few weeks are going to be a lot of fun for us and hell on earth for the Bushies (about frickin’ time!). God alone knows what else is going to come out. they just keep dribbling out these documents and every time there is one or more smoking gun in the heap.
dreamcatcher at 12 — Well, as someone who attended a third tier law school, I can tell you up front that every state requires that you pass an ethics component, and that this sort of thing ought to have been covered in crim law and in ethics class. The level of legal study that she had should make no difference, because this is basic stuff. Period.
And it isn’t the level that your law school was at — consider the law schools that some of the other BushCo folks attended, and how they have put knowledge that they gleaned there to use. It isn’t where you go or how it is rated, it is what you DO with it that counts. And, in this case, Ms. Goodling appears to have put her knowledge to use obstructing an ongoing investigation. What I want to know is who else was involved.
anonymousliberal
I will say that this does look bad…but the documents involved appear to be “talking points” and other spin-related documents…not those (except perhaps for the biographies) that actually relate to the actual firings when they occurred.
What this appears to be is an effort to conceal the development of the post hoc justification for those firings. That is, they didn’t really have justifiable reasons for the firings based upon performance at the time, and these documents were prepared to suggest that there was justification. It will be interesting if any of those “VERSIONS” contain back-dated materials that coincide with the “original versions” that they were supposed to replace.
Thus an email that references a particular CV or other document might appear to take on a different meaning if only the modified version of that is examined.
I would like to sit her little fundementalist self down and go through some of the Scriptures with her, quite slowly, and compare that to the emails and what she was doing at the DOJ. I would really like to see how she twists the words to justify herself. And then try to remind myself that I’m a pacifist. Or used to be?
I’m just sure Horrin Snatch is shocked, shocked by any implications of his involvement in this misunderstanding.
So I’m thinking skip the immunity deal and prosecute Goodling on Obstruction.
Glorfindel at 24 — Yes, I’m sure he’s cooking up a batch of faux outrage to use on some Sunday talking head show as I sit here typing. And you’ll note that I’m not buying it already, sight unseen.
NZ Expat, now in KS @
23
Isn’t part of the return of the Antichrist in the Bible about all the people who get fooled by the ultimate false prophet, the Antichrist. But who is the antichrist, none of these fools are “charismatic” enough to fit the bill completely in my book!
The most incomprehensible part of all this, most of these actions have occured SINCE the elections last November! Waxman et al are slowly delving into actions from ‘01-’06. But Leahy and Conyers only have to target actions since 11/06 to find more than enough evidence of wrong-doing.
What fantasy land were these people living in to believe they could go on with bidness as usual with a new Congress? How incredibly arrogant they must be to beieve this?
To quote Deep Throat from the early ’70s: “They just aren’t that smart.”
It’s as I’ve been saying: The document dump is dead as a delaying tool, because we have more eyeballs than they do — not only can we Hoover through things quicker than they can, we can spot it faster than they can when they screw up!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 32
Egggszaktly.
dreamcatcher @ 12
Per Jon Stewart, I think we should refer to Regent from now on as “Jiffy Law.” It has a more accurate ring to it.
PW at 29 — Not to mention that the more they dump, the better we are at spotting patterns of anomalies and obfuscations. Pattern of behavior toward a criminal conspiracy to obstruct, anyone?
Christy Hardin Smith @ 32
Looks that way to me.
Not deleting documents when trouble is a-brewin’ is pretty basic stuff indeed, even in civil litigation.
Yo Monica…….can you say f-u-c-k-i-n-g i-d-i-o-t…? Good thing you’ll have some memoirs to write, cuz I don’t think you’ll be riding that revolving door into private practice.
Christy Hardin Smith @
32
I guess they didn’t pay attention in school when their English teacher said: “Eschew obfuscations.” :})
[Mod: When you are creating bold using [strong], highlight the desired phrase before hitting the button and please take care to have the closing tag [/strong] with the all important “/” thanks]
WOW
Tipping point.
obfuscations were made.
For the latest news, document dumps, email archives, hearing transcripts and other essential materials in the firings of U.S. attorneys, see:
“The U.S. Attorney Scandal Documents.”
They seem to be trying to hide behind circular reasoning that goes like this: They can’t charge us with obstruction of justice, since because we have obstructed justice, they don’t have the facts to charge us. Ergo: Avoid Obstruction charges by obstructing.
Warming up real good at the lake this Saturday morning. Starting off with Redd and PW highlighting human rights abuses. Not in El Salvador or Cambodia, but in Anchorage and Rosebud and at privatized prison camps for children in Texas! Now, onto the massive job of even attempting to wrap one’s arms around the awful subversion going on at our so-called Department of Justice.
The abuses documented in Amnesty International’s report on violence against Native American women observes that the rate rape among Native American women has remained unchanged over the past 20 years. Children were held behind bars at INS facilities before Bush was president, and probably will be in the future, no matter who wins the WH in 2008.
If the US House hadn’t changed hands in 2006, none of this DOJ dirt would have come out. Had the House remained in GOP hands, the Senate would be a completely different organization than we now have – far lass motivated, far more divided.
Deepening Dem control of the US House and getting progressive liberals elected to both houses of congress is the most important issue we face. It matters far less who wins the corrupt national popularity contest known as the presidential race.
Meanwhile, let’s see what’s hidden under the next rock.
NZ Expat, now in KS @ 23
It boggles my mind that people claim to be “christian” (whatever that means) and then go about doing the most unethical acts. Religion in my family meant having Faith in yourself and others which precluded trashing someones life because it suited your needs. I wonder, as Monica is sitting home feeling sorry for herself if she has given a thought to the US Attorneys, their families and co-workers. I guess they were disposable because she and rest of the DOJ Bush Crew had their plan and that mattered more than simple decency.
Who else thinks Goodling’s use of the term “friendlies” means a whole bunch of Gooper Senators and congresscritters have copies of these docs – old and new? Hatch, at least?
Well, at a certain point a person just isn’t immunity-worthy. All of the high-ranking crooks in the Nixon administration went to prison and Monica Goodling is pretty high up there. I think we tend to think of her as not so important because she’s a young woman recently out of law school. But she’s been working in a position most often held by a more mature (in years and experience) professional.
Just substitute Monica’s fresh young face with a middle-aged, balding male and I doubt anyone would take kindly to immunity for her. Enough is enough. I don’t really want to get at the *truth* by making 100 deals with 100 devils. It’s prudent in some cases, I know, but I’d rather the side of the *good* just go after the facts and not get into too many deals about it. It just doesn’t smell good.
Christy: Everything you post is excellent, but this one is a masterpice:
IMHO, the GOP needs an eight-year sabbatical during which to reacquire their moral coordinates.
Would they go to this extreme extent to create so many CYA documents if they didn’t have something really sinister to cover up?
If they just wanted to replace USA’s because they wanted USA’s whose policies focused more on the president’s agenda, then why didn’t they just do that – have the president replace them according to the “serve at the pleasure of the president” reason and be done with it?
Obviously, Issa and the Cunningham gang had an agenda for pushing the illegal prosecution argument; the most obvious was to remove Lam who was investigating Cunningham etal., however, who else might benefit financially from there being MORE people incarcerated? The Cunningham case revolves around favors for MZM and others.
Remember the $300 million plus contract for Halliburton to construct detention centers for ICE? It has crossed my mind that somebody was making a lot of money from filling prison beds. Just take Hutto Detention Center for instance.
Remember when prison beds counts were being discussed in Congress a few years ago? What was that all about?
Are there any connections to prisons with MZM?
There was a letter at one point that Feinstein wrote in one of the earlier dumps expressing her concern about this stuff and Lam, and then later letters, as well as her position lately has been to support Lam. Could there have been a connection to contracts involving her husbands government contract deals? I have no idea if he was involved with prisons, but I haven’t been able to find out exactly what his business dealings were.
These are a few things I’ve been chewing over. I saw a link on a website about a private or several private Southern California prison(s) having to close because the beds weren’t getting filled in 2003, but when I went to the page, it was no longer there.
Don’t forget to check out the comments on this WaPo story on the Justice Department:
washingtonpost
Christy Hardin Smith @
3
Christy – thanks for the h/t.
I gotta admit, instead of my former practice of devouring the Globe, I now scan for Savage’s byline and the sports section. Anything else of interest is a surprise. She’s now the eastern outpost stepchild of the greyghost NYT.
As for what you ’say out loud’ – I’d question the ‘working for the DoJ’ segment of your statement. It would seem to be quite the opposite.
ymmv.
Cheahs!
Jenny from the Blog @
43
So the Goodling deal gets rescinded, she takes the 5th, and months are lost? Exactly what Karl wants. I think we should offer her Christian charity and a chance to fully repent.
I heard impeachment literally jumped back on to the table.And nobody can get impeachment off now.
Why would Issa co-author a letter with a bunch of people who were under investigation? To associate himself with them at that time has struck me as odd – unless he’s involved, or it was really about something else.
Slightly OT but the New York Times has some interesting articles up for tomorrow’s ediiton. Three in particular:
1. Iraq Construction “successes” falling apart.
2. Saudi Prince Bandar maybe not as connected as previous.
3. Chemo Brain being accepted as a medical condition.
When does the house of cards finally tumble? This slow boil is killing me! This country can’t wait til 1-20-09.
OT: yahoo.com link
Thank you for speaking truth Gen. Odom!
katymine @
17
Spooky, katymine.
may George McGovern’s words come to fruition, SOON.
Can anybody get past the NYTs firewall? Is MoDo’s takedown of Tenet any good?
dakine01 @
28
Folks don’t understand that these all are “End Timers.” They are a Christian Doomsday Cult and they are all prepared to fall on their swords for their God appointed leadership team.
They all believe that Bush and Cheney are their “Bo and Peep,” and it can’t stop until someone (ANYONE) starts a Nukular war in the Middle East and brings fourth the “Second Coming” of someone they murdered a while back and then ordered everyone to worship, or else!
The Bush Administration should be treated like the Doomsday Cult that their believers believe it is, because (IMHO) Bushco clearly believes the hype. It will lash out violently when it’s core delusions are threatened.
These Gopers seek the Eternal Mothership, but it’s really just the Bullship. And as we all know, their Bullship goes on forever.
dreamcatcher @
12
And there are buckets full of these 30-year old RU grads with minutes of experience, running the DoJ
To Mods on my comment #35. Thank you for the heads-up and warning, but I did not put any extra bolding or emphasis on my comment. It was just straight text, no additives. :})
Technological miracles often aren’t.
[Mod: Your text started with [strong] which might have been from accidentally hitting that -b- key above the text box.]
Marcy’s post from yesterday that Christy links to above is required reading.
Drip, drip, drip …
jumping off from Christy’s theme about the lack of Gooper Cong pride in doing their jobs….
I think it will be a potent campaign theme beyond even the corruption. Replace the rubber stampers with folks who will do their job.
The GOP Congs were simply not doing their jobs. That they can continue to argue and support this WH, this war, this level of corruption is just pure ideology and power politics when what is needed is some statesmandhip.
It shows why they need to be replaced
So Monica’s gonna get away with her blow job?
Frank Probst @ 55
http://welcome-to-pottersville…..-ball.html
newtonusr @
42
I thought Fox News.
MoDo’s Takedown of Tenet
What was the original email about. the initials in it have me confused.
Congressional investigators also need to subpoenae the portals like Yahoo! and AOL that the govt officials were using.
They’ll get results a lot faster than from the RNC. I remember seeing on TPM Muckracker that one yahoo email account had been found which was used by a govt official. Another official said, “It’s Yahoo! baby”.
Think about the requirements a big net company has to face due to child pornographers who try to exploit their free services… then think about how fast they can grab your email, deleted or otherwise, if legally required.
Yahoo! or AOL gets a subpoena from Congress for an email account, Congress will get the email chain, along with all the attachments, cc’s etc.
Firedoglake has the BEST comment thread on the internets. Geez, this stuff is fascinating.
Thanks to all the lawyers, sharp-eyed readers, patriots, and malcontents who’ve made my Saturday morning so enjoyable.
IMPEACH!
query about:
SDGA
SDCA
and
FAUSA….usaattorney in Florida???
Does an immunity deal come with an expectation (either implicit or explicit) of a certain amount of info? Is it likely that Monica get immunity and doesn’t squeal?
dakine01 @
58
Sorry if that happened. I know I saw it post without anything though. And I really haven’t had anything to make me hallucinate, honest. I’ll try to be much more careful, however.
The Clusterfuckers are getting close to the point where they can run out the clock on any new criminal investigation. When you see how long it took Fitzy to move from beginning to end- there may not be enough time for a conviction before the end of the administration.
Once Clusterfuck’s out of office- few will care what happens to such a case.
oooh, I like this!
Monica may have passed her sell-by date. Maybe she has a blue dress in the closet thatr could help her out now.
If the documents make the connections between the DoJ and and White House (and I think OMB muscled it’s way in there too) there may not be any need to grant her immunity. She’ll just have to wait her turn and testify truthfully like all the rest. And people being mean, chipping a nail, or having to provide incriminating testimony is just too bad.
She’s small fry, but she might get fried just the same. Fitz managed to make do with Scooter (so far).
Wonder how it feels to be the nexus of an ongoing criminal conspiracy to subvert a department of the federal government in pursuit of political power and personal advantage? And then actually be called to account.
Anybody seen the syllabus or lesson plans for that Regency College? Must be a lot they don’t get around to teaching you at those fancy law schools.
rwcole @ 61
hahahahaha – Thank you!
peterboy @ 68
SDGA-southern district Georgia
SDCA-southern district Caliornia
FAUSA-Florida Asst. USA? is my guess
Zee@67,
Yes, that is very likely. Remember Oliver North.
Just got here and I’m about to be EPU’d but my question is: Did Congress get rid of that clause that bypassed them (I know there was a vote but is it now officially gone)?
And, if so, aren’t Griffins 120 days up?
This reminds me of the hubbub the republics flung when Reid said the Senate work week was going to be extended. It looks to me like they gained free time by giving authority for work to bypass them. “Sure y’all! Do whatever ya want, I’ll be on the golf course!”
1,500 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Hardin Smith and the Firepup Patriots:
Let’s ferget about impeachment, let’s expand the investigations to the point of enabling multiple special prosecutors and as the criminal investigations go forward keep the hearings out front in Congress creating more special prosecutors for more criminal investigations.
Continuing criminal investigations and indictments insure that the perpetrators and bagmen for the fascists will not be back in another incarnation and as the administration is reduced to hide and seek behind its siege defenses the Democrats have complete control of the political battlefield. The only exit for Darth Cheney and the Chimpenfurer will be resignation…and when they are out of office they both will be “fair game” for criminal prosecution.
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE AMMUNITION AND DON’T LET UP, DON’T GIVE ‘EM ANY ROOM TA BREATHE!!
Who if anyone is paying Monica’s lawyer who is negotiating her immunity or is this some Republican Lawyer who is voluntering his services. Given what Monica can testify about any Lawyer “connected ” to the GOP has a conflict of interest with their client (example Scooter Libby who is still waiting for a pardon).
Could someone help answer my question @ 16 above or send me to a reliable (i.e. non-Wikipedia) source.
Many thanks in advance. Trying to keep things straight in my mind.
rwcole @ 71
I care. It hopefully will give pause to all other politicians and their political appointees – GOP, DEMs, Green Party, Drink Warm Beer on Thursday Night Party. I don’t care which political party they belong too. If they behave like criminals they should be prosecuted and sent to jail.
Frank Probst @ 55
Kinda funny. She calls him Slam Dunk and Slam throughout the article. She cuts him no slack for not speaking up when the getting was good.
Zee @ 68
No, it isn’t. The lawyers can weigh in on the specific charge (Contempt of Congress would be my guess), but you can’t blow off a subpoena without a good reason. Invoking your Fifth Amendment rights is a good reason, but use immunity nullifies this option.
Peter boy at 68 — well I think this is correct:
SDGA = Southern DIstrict of Georgia
SDCA = Southern District of California
and
FAUSA — Not sure on the F, but AUSA would be an assistant USAtty. Maybe Florida? Or Federal?
Loo Hoo @ 82
Kind of like MoDo herself.
-GSD
There is no way Bush could have survived this long without corrupting/firewalling the political interface at DoJ.
Rove has been able to ’sit on’ various investigations by deviously discerning which ‘key’ positions needed to be coopted – and then he turned to his partner in crime, Harriet, and had her staff the critical spot with a ‘Monica.’
However, it would have taken more than simply stacking the AUSA’s to ‘control’ outcomes – I want to know if Alice Fisher is a stooge?
We know Monica certainly is doing the bidding of someone in the WH. My money is on Miers being the ‘hub’ of the Ideology-First Fundie penetration into the Executive.
It will be to the everlasting disgrace of the Christian Church in America, imvho, if it turns out the Main Effort to Circumvent Justice came through a Corrupt Corps of Fundamentalists whose Ideology Trumped the Constitution.
That will be the end of ’sacred trust’ and condemnation to simple cult status for an institution that has sadly lacked in principled leadership for a long, long time.
I’m more than willing to let thinly veiled Organized-Hate-Called-Religion be a casualty of fighting for the Freedom of All.
For a lighter side of this incredibly serious issues here’s Jon Stewart
and, if you missed it, the incredible Bill Moyers with Stewart and Josh Marshall on PBS last night. For a snip take a look
I cannot even imagine where we’d be without FDL, Josh Marshall, Stewart, Moyers, and so so many more who have been dogged in their focus on the truth. For this we owe an enormous THANK YOU!
things come undone @ 79
Since she has resigned and is no longer a fed employee, she/they can set-up a legal defense fund for her like was done with da Scoot’. But it is still unknow who was paying the bills for her prior to the resignation.
Her atty is John Dowd, A partner at AkinGump, a high priced inside beltway, connected firm. He’s the guy who brought down Pete Rose (or at least conducted the investigation since Pete actually brought himself down). Not Cheap and Not from Pat Robertson U.
Frank Probst @
83
So I can see offering immunity if you know the person is going to talk, but if you think they might not talk is it worth offering it? I don’t understand the validity of giving immunity if the witness isn’t guaranteed to be forthcoming.
rwcole @ 71
In January, 2009, on the way out the door,
Bush will carpet bomb the Administration with pardons,
making prosecutions impossible.
Hey, is anyone else but me creeped-out about the fact that there is only ONE pciture of Monica Goodling that we have ever seen?
I mean that is just a really odd thing. The only other person of note who we hear about and only see one picture of is Taliban leader Mullah Omar, the one eyed sheikh.
-GSD
Citizen Jane at 80 – There are a lot of factors that have to be ascertained in answer to your question. We discussed a lot of them in this prior thread — it would be a really long answer to do all of it here, but maybe reading through these comments will help.
LS@45–
Article in the NYT yesterday or the day before about massive new prison construction in CA — I thought it was because Ahnold is financed by the prison guards’ union, but maybe it does have something to do with MZM. I saw red because of the utter insanity of spending 10 billion on prisons when the CA schools are in such desperate need. But from now on, I won’t underestimate the interconnectedness of GOP scandals — it’s like the unified field theory of corruption!
So much of this ‘delusional’ behavior makes sense within the light of the theory that these people never intend to relinquish power. Ever.
Competency doesn’t matter. Rule of law, irrelevant. ‘By the people’, a quaint notion.
Nothing but actively malfeasant operators force-feeding their own ‘reality’ into the tremulous dreams of a soporific nation while they pay cynical lip service to its ideals that they seek to destroy.
The termites of democracy.
Citizen Jane @ 80
Does this help? Transctional Immunity
MoDo on Tenet: “Can’t a guy be a lickspittle without being an ideologue?”
MoDo on Feith: “Wolfie’s neoconcubine”
Let’s not forget Stephen Colbert who gave us all strength to see the light at the end of the tunnel when he eviscerated not only George W. Bush right to his face, but also the entire bloated, decadent and corrupt press/media establishment too. His performance at the Press Club was one of the turning points and something I’ll never forget.
-GSD
A few months back I set out on a project to do a “Who to Whom” matrix of all this, but it got so damn complicated it would have had to be a multidimensional thing, and I gave up. Now, I would be happy to have a simple list of all the schedules and subjects of all the committees, and all their “invitees.”
The Clusterfuckers are now lowering expectations for the success of the “surge” and beginning to suggest that the “surge” will last well into next year- making it sound a lot more like an “escalation” than a “surge”– a “surge” that goes on for a year or two ain’t a “surge”.
Meanwhile- the vast majority of america just wants the Clusterfuckers to leave and for america’s long nightmare to be over.
GSD @ 97
It was a beautiful thing. Even better was the look on all of those previously smug faces in the audience.
GSD @ 91
Mullah Omar:Pakistan ISI :: Monica Goodling:Federalist Society :: Andrew Sullivan:The New Republic
(and there will be a quiz in the morning).
Come join Congressman John Hall upstairs for BlueAmerica!
BlueAmerica
Rep. John Hall is here for Blue America today, and Howie has a wonderful post up and ready for the reading. Please take a few minutes to stop by and talk with Rep. Hall. He’s doing amazing work already, and I’m so proud that we helped to get him in Congress where he could make such a wonderful difference. Do drop by the thread and say hello and thanks to Rep. Hall. Thanks, gang!
Here’s a little article wrt American Senators on torture on the front page of the China Post:
A U.S.-based Chinese activist has been released after serving a five-year prison term on charges of spying for rival Taiwan and entering China illegally, his lawyer said Saturday.
Yang was on a U.S. government list of people imprisoned in China for political reasons and was cited regularly in speeches by the American ambassador to Beijing, Clark T. Randt. A group of 40 U.S. senators wrote to China’s legislature in 2004 saying he had been tortured. His family said he suffered a stroke in prison.
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/
Christy Hardin Smith @
21
What if youe Ethics Classes all focused on God’s Law being superior to Man’s law and of course by implication doing anything to keep continued Godfearing GOP political control is higher than obeying a Demon Democratic Congress. Is the Ethics circulum standerdized? What about the Prerequist classes Pat Robertson is after all very fond of putting God before Man. Legal rules are suggestions to these people they will do anything to further their goal of bringing a church state to America.
GSD @ 91
I have seen a second one – her sitting on what looks like a dock. I believe that was from her alumni web page.
rwcole @ 71
We can’t let them forget..no “time to move on”…no “let them off the hook for the good of the country”. Restoration of the Constitution and the Rule of Law must be the #1 priority of the Democratic Government after 01/20/09. The Rule of Law cannot be restored without enforcing the law; and that means charges, trials and prison terms…a lot of trials and prison terms. I don’t think running out the clock or leaving a government job gives immunity. I can’t think of a worse crime than subversion of the Constitution. In our form of government it should be the legal equivalent of High Treason.
Perhaps I’m wrong…this is Bizarro World, after all…but it seems to me that the more the Dems can build a case that a crime occurred (obstruction of justice, deliberately deleting records, what have you) the more hard pressed the courts will be to deny Congressional access to the RNC documents.
Great catch!
sorry to go off topic but this absolutely floored me – it needs to be headlined on every site in the blogosphere:
best.protest.song.ever.written:
youtube
a modern day dylan on the pulpit
things at 105 — Well, the ethics curriculum ought to be fairly standardized, since there are model rules of ethics which have been pretty much adopted across the board — and there would need to be a knowledge of the rules of ethics in effect in the state in which someone practices in order to pass the bar and obtain a law license. My understanding is tha Goodling is licensed in VA, which means she would have had to pass the bar there or be waived in under a praticum arrangement — but either way, she would be required to take CLE classes with a certain amount of ethics hours as a part of those classes to maintain an active bar license. So she’d have to learn the standardized ethics rules and regs in any case. In WV (and our rules are very similar to VA’s, although someone who practices in VA, please feel free to chime in here), we have a mandatory obligation to take a certain number of ethics hours every year to maintain an active law license. And this is fairly standard in most states, as I understand it.
Zee at 88: All use immunity does is keep future prosecutors from using her testimony against her. She can still take the stand, swear to tell the truth, kick off her testimony by dragging her feet (”My name is Monica Good-something. I can’t recall the specifics.”), and try to shield her bosses by not remembering anything. But that’s not going to get her very far. Humiliating yourself on national television is generally not a good career move, and women don’t seem to qualify for wingnut welfare quite as easily as men do. She’s in grave danger of prosecution as it is, and it’s clear that she’s left quite a paper trail. If someone else flips before she does, she could end up in jail for several years. She needs to cut a deal, and fast.
Frank Probst @ 111
Thanks Frank. That is a bit clearer.
Lou Costello @
64
Well, Tenet was no saint, but whose interest does MoDo’s smackdown best serve? Why, VP Cheney, of course! Smacking Tenet down serves to deflate Tenet’s smackdown of Darth, who barely gets a nod in MoDo’s piece.
Cheney needs to be put back into the glare of public scrutiny.
Bob in HI
dakine01 @ 70
Dakine01,
Just remember, Preview is your friend!
Bob in HI
49ers take Patrick Willis, LB, at #11.
dreamcatcher @
12
Christy…you and the other legal minds out there may want to actually examine the Chrsitological focus of Pat Robertson’s “Regent University”.
The law school is heavily involved in a whole series of litigations and supplying amicus briefs regarding every issue from abortion; school vouchers for students wanting to go to Christian schools when a local school fails Bush’s NCLB criteria (and that Christian school, being private, has NO criteria they need to match); doctors and pharmacies refusing to serve or inform patients wanting contraception options (or if they simply don’t want to assist “sinners”); etc.
http://www.clsnet.org/lsmPages…..096980a58c
http://www.clsnet.org/lsmPages/ICLS/index.phpx
I also thought the pictures here were “cute” -liike the one with the Codpiece in Chief and the other with the jet taking off with the verse from Deuterotomy. Wasn’t Deuterotomy the book where God sent the Israelites out to kill every last male of the enemy, including male infants, as well as the females who have lain with man”. Oh, and then divvied up the remaining virgins to serve as slave wives to the conquering Israelites.
http://www.clsnet.org/clsPages/photoAlbum.php
Regent teaches courses on Islam, but mainly ripping apart the Quran and justifying evangelising the “pagans”. A whole “School” and degree program on the world revival of Evangelical action. The have no courses on biology, but a course in their education program on the evils of evolution. But you can get a teaching credential in Science and Math! The have a Journalism School that focusses on how to use MSM and the internet to bring a Christological perspective to news, editorial, and public relations to evangelise and to provide Christian apologetics.
The catalog listing shows just how invasive Regent graduates in law have been in government and politics. They have a long list of agencies and Congressional Offices where their grads serve, and the Executive branch is replete with them.
All of this is very frightening…they clearly want to infiltrate every layer of society with the clear intention of eradicating the secular basis to our Constitution and governmental institutions.
I’ve mentioned on previous threads, we are presented with an oportunity that we have to exploit;
we have to start the dialogue pointing out that the administration are NOT republicans, they are abusing republicans and holding them hostage
they have forsaken every concervative principle and replaced with radical philosophy
if we can get THAT dialogue in the conversation we will be on course for a republican party that will be happy to impeach the people that highjacked their party
katymine @ 17
And their are counting on the PPs: Presidential Pardons and/or a Perpetual Presidency. Ford’s Plenary Pardon of Richard Nixon:
was a very bad precedent!!
perris at 117 — I don’t think so — the Republican party and GOP members of Congress allowed this Administration to grow into the mess that it is today. They bear direct rsponsibility for their behavior as well — and I, for one, am not about to let them off the hook for it. They can be tarred with the same damned corrupt and smarmy brush as far as I am concerned — because enabling the crime is as bad as doing it yourself.
Wigwam @ 118
it wasn’t a working “prophylactic” pardon it wasn’t enforceable but it helped the nation move on which it wanted to do
With respect to Monica Goodling: Surely she’ll have no compunction about lying under oath, assuming there is an immunity proffer? This is a lawyer in the US Department of Justice who knowingly subverted the rule of law.
Unless there’s evidence directly contradicting what she says, I just don’t see how anything she says can be trusted. She’s already violated her oath.
jane_jericho @ 121
it’s not about compunction….it’s about not getting her ass thrown in jail on a perjury charge. There would be no immunity for that…..would kind of defeat the purpose.
Aside from basic obstruction of justice and ethics considerations, I query whether the wholesale deletion of documents violates the Public Records Act. There are situations where drafts can be deleted but I think it’s relatively narrowly circumscribed.
I add that violations of the Public Records Act does have criminal sanctions under certain circumstances.
Bob Schact @ 114 says:
I agree. Just didn’t think it was necessary since I’d only used basic text, I swear!
A cousin of mine obtained her law degree and was an early practitioner of Law as is her husband. Both are died in the wool Republicans. Neither her father, nor our grandfather would have approved of supporting the bankruptcy of ideas that passes as Republican idiology.
It can’t be the lack of a good education as they are liscenced at the Bar. That leaves either: A failure of a good education that so results, Or the abuse of a good education. After all that is transpiring of late, It can only be the later.
I suppose every family has its disgraces and other skeletons. All the best……
LS @
50
Of course Issa is involved! His district contains, by far, the greatest number of Defense Dept. contract recipients in the country! The districts of “Duke” Cunningham, Duncan Hunter, Dana Rohrabacher, and Jerry Lewis don’t even come close. It’s a slop-trough for the military-industrial complex! These guys all form a swathe of interlocking districts that service the Southern California weapons and military service industries. Throw in the Homeland Security folks, too!
Christy Hardin Smith @ 110
Thank you Christy
Used google image search ‘monica goodling department of justice’ and this is one returned:
flickr jpg
Is that her?
oddmommy @ 122
I want to belive this. I really do, because that’s how my non-attorney understanding of the law says it is supposed to work. But these people have mangled the rules to the point that I just don’t trust that they work the same any more.
Blank Kludge @ 128
Ewwwww.
GSD @ 97
Hear, hear! Remembering the camera pans on the lovely Valerie Plame and Ambassador Joseph Wilson during Cobert’s riff was my personal favorite screen shot.My second favorite was the near unbearable discomfort on the faces of the complicit and thoroughly corrupt MSM notables. Stephen Cobert is a national treasure much like the Wilson’s are this generations finest examples of authentic American patriots.
Any updates on the start of the Wilson/Plame civil trial?
Thought that a list of where Regent University graduates have been hired might be of interest. This is from their 2006 Catalog on the net.
School of Law
SAMPLING OF STUDENT AND ALUMNI EMPLOYMENT
*This list describes places where students and alumni have worked or are currently working
STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT
State Attorney General’s Offices (Nationwide)
City Attorney’s Offices (Nationwide)
County Prosecutor’s Offices (Nationwide)
State Court Judges (North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Texas)
Elected City, County, and State Officials (Nationwide)
Offices of the Public Defender (Nationwide)
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
Bureau of Indian Affairs
Central Intelligence Agency
Department of Homeland Security
Department of the Interior
Department of Justice
Department of Veteran Affairs
Drug Enforcement Agency
Federal Bureau of Investigation
Federal Election Commission
Judge Advocate General Corps (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard)
Patent and Trademark Office
United States House of Representatives
United States Senate
JUDICIAL CLERKSHIPS
United States Court of Federal Claims
United States Court of Appeals, Third Circuit
United States Court of Appeals, Fifth Circuit
United States Court of Appeals, Eighth Circuit
United States District Courts (Alabama, California, Kentucky, Michigan, Mississippi, Montana, New Mexico,
Virginia)
United States Bankruptcy Courts
Virginia State Supreme Court
Washington State Supreme Court
Alabama State Supreme Court
Arizona State Supreme Court
Michigan State Supreme Court
Nationwide: State Courts of Appeals, State District Courts, State Circuit Courts, Family Courts, and Juvenile &
Domestic Relations Courts
PRIVATE PRACTICE
Balch & Bingham LLP (Alabama)
Bonne, Bridges, Mueller, O’Keefe & Nichols (California)
Boult, Cummings, Conners & Berry, PLC (Tennessee)
Clark & Ward (Kentucky)
Cooper Levenson, PA (New Jersey)
Cooper & Scully, PC (Texas)
Covington & Burling (Washington, D.C.)
Fowler, Rodriguez & Chalos (Florida)
Greenebaum, Doll & McDonald PLLC (Kentucky)
Hirschler Fleischer (Virginia)
Hunton & Williams (Virginia)
Ice Miller (Indiana)
Jones Day (California)
Kaufman & Canoles (Virginia)
Kemp Smith LLP (Texas)
Keating, Muething & Klekamp (Ohio)
Kirkland & Ellis, LLP (Washington, DC)
Kitch, Drutchas, Wagner, DeNardis & Valitutti (Michigan)
McKenna Long & Aldridge (Washington, DC)
Morgan Lewis (Washington, DC)
Morris York Williams Surles & Barringer (North Carolina)
Nelson Mullins Riley & Scarborough, LLP (South Carolina)
Patton Boggs LLP (Washington, DC)
Pender & Coward (Virginia)
Semmes, Bowen & Semmes, PC (Maryland)
Shughart Thomson & Kilroy, PC (Arizona)
Spector Gadon & Rosen, PC (Pennsylvania)
Stinson Morrison Hecker LLP (Kansas)
Whyte Hirschboeck Dudek SC (Wisconsin)
Williams Mullen (Virginia)
Winstead Sechrest & Minick PC (Texas)
BUSINESS AND INDUSTRY
Allstate Insurance Company
The AYCO Company, LLP
Bank of America
Centex Corporation
Daimler Chrysler Intellectual Capital Corp.
Ditech System Solutions, Inc.
Eastman Chemical Company
Fidelity Investments
Lexis-Nexis Publishing
Lockheed-Martin
MCI
Nomura Securities International, Inc.
Shell Oil Corporation
Speedway Motorsports, Inc.
Smith Consulting Group
Walgreens Corporation
PUBLIC INTEREST
American Center for Law & Justice
American Family Association Center
for Law & Policy
Alliance Defense Fund
Community Defense Counsel
Family Law Assistance Program
Free Congress Foundation Center
for Law & Justice
Home School Legal Defense Association
Jubilee Campaign, USA
Judicial Watch, Inc.
Just Law International, Inc.
National Legal Foundation
Oklahomans for Children & Family
Southern Alleghenies Legal Aid
Samaritan House
[Mod Note; in the future, breaking long lists up into multiple comments may help avoid tripping the spam filters.]
Monica belongs to the *Liars for Jebus* club and they answer to a higher authority. Ethics? Ethics are for the little people!
Seriously, this crew is all about means to an end. They don’t think they’re criminals. They think they’re doing God’s work by any means necessary, so yeah, Monica sure as hell would lie under a man-made oath. We’re dealing with dangerously deluded fundamentalist wackjobs and there’s no earthly *redemption* or *reward* we can offer them in exchange for the truth.
Jenny at 133–
Yes, that’s my fear. The probability of being jailed for the cause is perhaps not the deterrent it’s assumed to be.
Blank Kludge @ 128
don’t think so, goodling has a poodley-mullet hair thing going, but look at the woman in the back far left corner. looks like rachel paulose…
my eyes may be playing tricks on me though, the glare off kinky karl’s forehead is pretty intense.
John Hall is upstairs
Audrey @ 136
but I like this thread
Good afternoon all. This thread still active?
Beautifuly thrown down gauntlet, Christy. It is far past the time where Repub legislators need to stand up and protect the institutions of the government rather than their petty political interests.
I’ll start holding my breath right about…..now.
Texas Betsy @ 138
yes
Texas Betsy @ 138
yep – for all non Blue America topics, this is the place
punaise @ 139
I agree. They take an oath to uphold the constitution —- not to be loyal to prez & party. They need to be reminded of that dem & repub alike.
Well if you watched Waxman’s committee last week all the REP could do is whine about how unfair it was to subpoena Bush’s WH email and not Clinton’s WH email. It has been six years GOP – not everything can be Clinton’s fault!
pwrlght @ 143
It is ALL Clinton’s fault. ALL. Got it?
pwrlght @ 143
To correct myself – it was RNC held accounts by WH staff and DNC emails by WH staff.
pwrlght @ 137
:)
Okeedokee. Just wanted to be sure you knew. Carry on.
Texas Betsy @ 144
At what point will the MSM start saying to the REP and their talking point yakkers – Shut Up already about everything being Clinton’s fault. You sound like a 4 yr. old
makes one wonder – are the rethugs:
a) rotten to the core, venal and corrupt
b) truly convinced that they doing ‘right’ – the ends justify the means
c) careless and oblivious to anything but the perks of power?
OT- Bill Moyers Journal complete vid & transcript now up for last night’s Jon Stewart interview:
Bill Moyers Journal
moi @
135
EDIT: Sorry, read too quick. COuld be right about the background being rachel p.
BUt,
THe hair you have seen is the Regent picnic photo. Now almost ten years old, maybe. White/blonde and the right age. I just can’t be certain.
punaise @ 148
d) all of the above ??
punaise @ 148
Some are all three but most are at least one. I also know REP who are PISSED that their party has become this. Most of my friends who once called themselves REP now just say they are IND.
Texas Betsy @ 144
Shoot. I forgot.
Texas Betsy @ 151
DING!
pwrlght @ 147
When the ones in control of the MSM stop making millions of dollars per year and become REPs themselves. They’re Bush’s base.
pwrlght @ 152
good point. I was focusing on the character of the elected Goopers, but there is a whole other set of descriptors for the voters who enable them. Any Repub voter with a shred of integrity ( there have to be some out there, no?) should have already bailed out by now.
punaise @ 156
They seem to be very, very scared.
New course offering at Regent U next semester…
How to Delete Email so it’s Really Deleated ; )
Cozumel @ 158
Too bad DOJ has a new policy of not letting the political folks choose the new hires.
cinnamonape @
126
The question is, is he under investigation? If not, then the dots between need to be connected (other than the fact that he signed the letter going after Lam). In other words, connect him to the contracts.
punaise, I think most criminals have a very intricate justification system in place – it’s warped but it exists. We can’t even imagine their thought process, but it’s my guess that they think they’re doing the right thing, even if they have to murder to accomplish their greater goal.
Well, that’s my thought. They can justify their greed too, by simply giving it the label of *perk* on their way to heaven.
Rick Perlstein wrote a mind-blowingly brilliant piece in the Village Voice in ‘04 (around the time of the election) laying out the mindset of the true believers, “Bush’s Base”, that is the scariest thing you’ll ever read.
This particular breed of criminals, the ones who enable the administration, are beyond redemption as far as I’m concerned. Goodling would have to undergo a serious re-programming to understand what her crimes are.
Cozumel @ 158
Let’s hope they are as incompetent at this as they have been about everything else.
And even if they don’t believe in God, they believe in Bush.
He’s their God, they’re all batshit crazy.
pwrlght @ 162
It looks like she didn’t ‘delete’ her own email instructing others to delete theirs! LOL
Ack, I’d better go outside now before I get an ulcer. :)
Cozumel @ 164
I would say that is standard operating procedure for a Bush Co. Team member.
They need to find out who received that email from Ms. Gooding and require a lie detector test as to whether they did destroy any documents. In an agency full of lawyers, why didn’t someone bring this impropriety to light? Or perhaps someone did by including it in the dump!
Let’s see the DEMs have had oversight for three months and this much has been coughed up. Think of all the idiotic (and illegal) stuff yet to be found.
I just had a fantasy of being investigated by the FBI. In addition to demanding to see a court warrant, I would demand an affidavit as to the agent’s political affiliation. It was bad enough with Herbert Hoover doing the transvestite thing. This is really getting awful. Do we need to start the republic again from scratch, like the Bhutanese? cf: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04…..hutan.html
mjvpi @ 167
They seem to have ignored things like ethics and the law.
pwrlght @ 168
Enough to bury the republ party deep.
Re; Christy at 21
“It isn’t where you go or how it is rated, it is what you DO with it that counts.”
You nailed it, and that is what matters in every walk of life. This site continues to be one of my inspirations on a daily basis.
Once more, thanks to the various bloggers and those involved who comment provocatively.
Texas Betsy @ 171
I’m not interested in burying the GOP just the yahoo’s who have been in control for the last 6 yrs. I would have never thought there would be a day that I missed GHWB and Reagan but this crew makes me miss the good ole days.
pwrlght @
168
Makes me wish Henry was holding hearings five days a week. It’s got to be the only way we’ll uncover everything before Bush A) blows up the world or B) declares himself Emperor for Life
Yes, yes. The Patriot Act angle MUST be traced from it’s inception ( most likely Rove) to it’s accomplishment. After all, without the insertion of the thoroughly bogus USAtty provision we wouldn’t have our little AG scandal.
Following this story would, I believe, put a whole range of craven acts in the spotlight, while emphasizing the criminality of the people in this government.
Ironically, they seemed to think that they would never relinquish power, thus avoiding any accountability. Instead, they appear to have destroyed their own party (ha ha). The GOP is emerging as an entity worthy of derisive laughter- it should take at least a generation (and probably different conservative party) before the right will be able to regain even a modicum of trust.
At least I hope so.
The whole party needs to come to terms with what’s been done, both by the corporatists and the relig. fanatics. I don’t think that party will be viable for quite some time.
Jenny from the Blog @ 133
Goodling is a means to an end. Empathetically, I see her as a star struck child given a depth of authority way beyond her experience to even comprehend. She was and is a naive tool.
This is not to absolve her, an adult by law, from responsibility for her actions. But to remind us not to focus our scorn to deeply on this tool, but rather on the craftsmen who developed and used it.
I suspect the committee members, when questioning her, will have equipped themselves with evidence to attack any lies and distortions she may attempt. I also suspect that any lies and distortions would be glaringly and painfully evident to anyone watching.
I’m positive about her pending testimony.
I think Herbert Hoover preceded FDR. And the namesake for the Stanford thinktank Hoover Institute.
J.Edgar Hoover was the G-Man/FBI. Who had a way with a wardrobe.
pwrlght @ 168
“We’ve only had subpoena power for the last six weeks and every tree that we’ve barked up so far has had a cat in it,” said a senior Democrat who spoke on condition of anonymity because he is not authorized to speak publicly. “Imagine where we’ll be after six months.”
carpetbaggerreport
PA_Lady @ 174
If Bush declares himself Emperor for Life what does Rove’s title become (think of something witty – can’t do it. Rove just creeps me out and scares the hell out of me.)
Scum in waiting?
pwrlght @ 180
Rove will be known as the Great and Powerful Oz.
**On Edit: Preview is our friend…** [Mod:no extra charge]
OT- Moyers Journal Fri. night part 2 w/Josh Marshall of TPM available as transcript. Not sure if vid is to follow:
Bill Moyers Journal-TPM
time for a quick nap. see y’all this evening.
Texas Betsy @ 181
OOOh this could be fun – Earl of Cesspool.
pwrlght @ 41
They’re very much in a Calvinistic mindset — they’re the Elect, so they go to Heaven no matter what they do.
No surprise why Goodling’s very high-powered DC white collar crime lawyer put the Fifth Amendment and, hence, a grant of immunity for Goodling, right at the top of his talking points. He knew she was in neck deep.
Which reminds me. Who’s paying Akin Gump’s whopping bill to defend a poorly-qualified, middle class, ex-DOJ bureaucrat with a couple of bucks in the bank and a good size condo mortgage? Goodling would have been lucky to get an Akin Gump associate to return her call without help.
Not only does she have a top partner representing her, his team probably includes at least one other partner and a couple associates and couple of assistants, and possibly a PR consultant. The collective hourly rate for that talent probably equates to a third or half her old monthly take home pay.
Any bets that Ken Mehlman, a partner at Akin Gump in DC, has something to do with it? Has anybody seen a Defend Decent Monica website raising funds?
Phoenix Woman @ 186
Well, I hope that doesn’t turn out to be the case. I would hate for Rove to get to Heaven and for me to be left out. In my opinion my dog is more worthy than Rove.
Rove = Regent
sweetgumroot @
177
We are observing the banality of evil with folks like Goodling. For pure evil, we go to Rove and Cheney and their thugs and henchman.
Blank Kludge @ 188
I was going to go with Royal Vizier.
jeffreyw over at Gabbly says: Name that Rove! Contest
Master of the Chamber Pot
Sh*t Sniffer in Charge
Poo Poo Platter Taster
I liked the bit about “friendlies”. Sounds perfectly non-partisan and above board!
Frank Probst @ 191
Yep. Yours is better. I’ve been searching for that term, but the grey matter just don’t cooperate these daze.
scarshapedstar @ 193
Yeah, I liked that as well. Makes it perfectly clear there was no politics being played at all…not.
Texas Betsy @
159
Back to the future in other words.
FYI, New thread by Emptywheel.
Eureka Springs @ 197
but I like this thread
pwrlght @ 198
but I like EW – hmmm – torn – what to do – what to do
pwrlght @ 199
Well, 200 posts…we could always go see what EW’s got for us today
pwrlght @ 199
I like EW and this thread to… maybe we can do two things at the same time?
Here’s a question if anyone is still around.
I remember during the Iran-Contra and Watergate hearings that actual attorneys were hired to do the questioning. Why isn’t that happening with the DOJ cases?
halobeam @ 201
Yes – Two post at once!!
pwright @ 173
What is styling itself as the unitary executive and their party enablers in both the legislative and the judicial branches must be exterminated in exactly the same way as the Nazi party was in post war Germany, for the same reasons, and the same thoroughness. Otherwise, like a bad “B” movie, it’ll be back. Unfortunately, this will effect some population of supporters of the “old school republican”, the party of “Lincoln” mythology existing until the mid-sixties.
While cleaning house, a good part of the democratic party which has acted to enable the republican agenda, require purging as well.
Properly a second look must be undertaken at the two party system and the weaknesses it has, particularly to the ease it succumbs to being bought and owned by monied interests.
It may be found to be safer if a multi party system were established where no one party would ever gain ascendancy in office without first compromising with one or two other parties, severly curtailing the possibility of repeating what is being experienced now.
A thought. Drat EPU’d again
Y’know, I’m going to play the contrarian here and suggest that the ‘delete previous versions’ line is essentially harmless. And no, this isn’t trolling.
Why? Because we already know that these people aren’t exactly smart when it comes to technology, other than having an off-site backchannel. They’re revising documents and not using a versioning system or a central document repository or even providing date-stamps: they just forward them around to each other in email. Which is why you get so much duplication in the doc-dumps.
So while I think Mistress Goodling is far from pure — she’s a Comstockian oppo researcher — and doesn’t deserve immunity, she’s telling people not to send out last week’s talking points by mistake because they have fifteen different versions with the same filename.
Should she have been more conscientious and said ‘file away any previous versions and ensure you’re sending out this particular version’? For sure. Should DOJ business email not look like mass forwards from your wingnut great-aunt? For sure. But I think the best you can get from that particular email is utter shoddiness in official business, not intent to conceal evidence.
On the Patriot Act thing: I noticed that one of the instigators was a wingnut lawyer who’s now a poster at Jeff Godlst**n’s spittle-flecked site.
Woodhall Hollow @ 202
That is the best thing I ever heard. In watching Whitehouse question people – you can really see the value in having experience attorney’s.
pwrlght @ 188
pseudonymous in nc @ 205
It’s not trolling – it is called discussion. I think the give away is the timing – days after Gonzo was questioned. I took CHS point to mean – even the only barely competent attorney would have known that is a NO NO.
pseudonymous in nc @ 205
I see your point. The problem Goodling has is either she purposely told them to delete prior versions, despite the investigation. Or else she is (no surprise) just incompetent in her chosen profession, and didn’t know that you should delete anything during an investigation.
In her case, I’m thinking incompetence beats out obstruction.
Jesus Christ told Pat Robertson who told his Law School that sometimes you just have to turn your other cheek to the……………paper shredder……..
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 210
hahahahahahahaha
If and when this chick testifies get out the the Kleenx. She`s goona crumble.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 210
And of course, in the Sermon on the Mount, Christ said, “Blessed are the liars and partisans, for they shall be high in government.”
Steve E @ 212
Maybe Mrs. Alito can cry behind her too. So those mean Senators and Congressmen / Congresswomen leave her ALONE!
Steve E @ 212
What I want, but doubt we’ll see, is for her to lay out the whole thing – from the Patriot Act provision to the firing of the USAs to stop or slow investigations into Repubs.
pwrlght @ 214
yes, it is gonna be very interesting. She’s a tool of the Bushites and the fundies, indeed……but she is also basically a clueless young kid.
Bet “the fear of God” is taking on a whole new meaning for her now, ayup.
NOrwcole @ 71
I’m not so sure of that. I think this time there will be enough rage to keep the Inquisition post mortem going for at least a year, which will be before the Statute of Limitations on the various crimes run out. The whole business can be handed over to a Special Prosecutor for Crimes against the Constitution, and another for Crimes Against Humanity. Perfectly dooable, and definitely desirable. There will not be a post-watergate reconciliation after this one. The damage is too great and the anger has just begun to rise.
The reason Goodling was HIDING behind the Fifth was because she knew of her e-mail to DELETE. Regent may have taught her how to connive to get the people you want but not how to escape when you get caught. I have commented several times that the provision to bypass Congressional approval of USAs wasn’t just made up by Moschella. He wouldn’t wipe until he requested paper from somebody higher up. It went through Specter’s office and I doubt he didn’t know about it although it is possible. Manners and propriety left the Congress in 1994 and there is no reason the Democrats need to bring it back until they rid it of the snakes and lizards that do devious crap as this.
Okay lawyers, if Monica asked someone to delete emails, that is one thing. She isn’t the boss of any of these folks. But if anyone actually deleted an email, that is conspiracy to obstruct. Considering that so many high officials saw the email, it should be obvious that all of them had a positive duty to speak up immediately if they wished to opt out of the obstruction. “Hey, please don’t do what Monica just suggested, it might be taken the wrong way!”
The combination of her lack of authority over the recipients and (maybe) the lack of positively trying to stop any destruction is a pretty big deal. Also, since the order to destroy has gone out, the lack of older documents is proof all by itself of destruction, obstruction and conspiracy. Either turn over the document, or go to jail. It is hard to spin this one: “she was talking about documents which didn’t exist. Don’t know why she said that, and bolded it. I have no idea why I didn’t speak up…”
perris @
120
I have wondered about this, the widely asserted desire of the nation to move on. Having followed the Watergate hearings on FM radio in the lab to the point of getting little done for weeks at a time, I wanted to see the drama through. Having Ford swoop in like some deus ex machina and get Nixon off the hook, having the entire sordid, wrenching business turned into cheap tragicomedy was deeply disillusioning, and nobody in my circle of acquaintances seemed to feel otherwise. In fact, by pardoning Nixon, we felt — precisely — that the country DID NOT “move on”. We were not tired of Watergate; we wanted to see the last scene of the last act!
Move forward to Iran/Contra: Ollie North was in the hands of a master interrogator in the hearings, a New York attorney, I believe, although I can’t come up with his name; North wanted to brag about how smart he had been, wanted sympathy and praise, and he was going to let all the cats out of the bag. Overnight, the attorney was sent packing: services not needed. And we never found out anything. And we are still paying the price.
On Little Lord Pissypant’s famous “Mission Accomplished” Day…guess who was the ONLY US CONGRESSMAN on the naval ship with him? Darryl Issa. IMO, he’s in up to his eyeballs.
Note the update at Anonymous Liberal:
If Goodling is allowed to plead “i’m a screw-up”, she merely falls in line behind Gonzales.The Republicans will still say “no harm, no foul” and a large percentage of the population is going to accept it as “benefit of the doubt”.
That is precisely what Karl Rove wants.
In view of his position, he cannot hope to beat the investigations from damaging the Presidency or his sorry ass. But he can skate free on “incompetence” byes—and he will.
It seems to me the ante must be upped and crimes seriously charged before any of them feel seriously threatened. I am sure they are saying “it’s just politics..it won’t amount to that much”.
I am one who favors the impeachment route because it puts the maximum political edge on the accusations. But prosecution for a crime in a court of law is better.
How can you become senior legal counsel of the Justice Department at 33 years old? And we’re surprised when this stuff gets handled like amateurs.
It seems that although this may not be the smoking gun, it’s yet another bullet found lodged in a wall just above the head of the person defending the constitution. Maybe she didn’t shoot him but isn’t have a concealed weapon and firing it out of CYA and delusions of poweur(sic) enough to make “senior” Senators re-examine her immunity?
Shouldn’t the Justice Department be held to a higher standard than: It’s probably not illegal what she did, it was just an amateur move. Certainly we have to have a higher standard for the people in charge of upholding our laws, right?
EL in Germany
I’m just not convinced that this e-mail has that much value. Goodling is obviously a poor lawyer and in way over her head–the use of that word “delete” is really very stupid. On the other hand, the e-mail states that the documents are being replaced because the earlier versions are no longer accurate after a certain date.
Goodling is likely to argue, if she is asked, that this is just administrative stuff and (not incorrectly) that emails like this are sent about a million times a day without evil intent.
My guess is she skates on this one. Doesn’t make me happy, but that is this lawyer’s judgment.