Following the New Deal era in America, when business people took for granted, more or less, that they had a moral responsibility to the community, the rise of the right wing (ably documented by Rick Perlstein in Before the Storm) mixed a racist, John Birch Society movement with big business interests to change the way people thought about morality in American business. Milton Friedman, the highly influential economist from the University of Chicago, became a kind of fundamentalist for the notion that the only social responsibility of business was to make money, disregarding as irrelevant the question of how that money is made.
In film, this notion found some expression in the famous words of “Gordon Gecko” that “Greed is good.” And yet, other films show us how we take for granted that Friedman was full of shit. Anyone who watches Schindler’s List understands that a business person making a rational profit from an immoral system deserves moral opprobrium, at the very least.
But what happens when poverty, exploitation, sickness and death are less apparent than are the death camps, in retrospect, active in Hitler’s Germany? More to the point, what happens when a cultural ethos of only “individual responsibility,” absent consideration of the effects of policies and behavior on the wider community, dominates, such that exploitative CEO’s who propel immoral political and business policies are seen as cultural heroes?
That’s the situation in America – still – today. The myth of the rugged individualist, the hardscrapping superhero CEO still exists as a kind of dominant cultural model to which to aspire, and we never really look at how the money gets made, or at whose expense. This cultural myth, post Enron, and, it must be said, post George W. Bush, has been tarnished, but nothing yet has replaced it.
Matt Stoller was on a roll today highlighting institutional corruption of our big business community through its efforts to rig the regulatory environment toward the development of ever more powerful barriers to community prosperity. One example includes the efforts of the telecommunications lobby (with some muddled assistance from the Communications Workers of America) to make the US a third world information economy (Update: see also here ). Another post of Matt’s examines the big institutional forces behind the continuing feudalization of America: the National Manufacturers’ Association, the U. S. Chamber of Commerce, the Business Roundtable, the National Restaurant Association, NFIB (National Federation of Independent Businesses) and NAW (National Association of Wholesalers-Distributors).
Though the defenders of Milton Friedman’s anti-community fundamentalist philosophy often claimed there was no place for a discussion of “morality” in business policy, practice or strategy, they simply replaced one view of what is “moral” with another, transforming what has always been defined as a vice (greed) into a virtue. Neat trick.
This has always been, from its inception, partly a racist movement, not always on the level of individual racial animus (in all cases), but from the perspective of the systemic exclusion and subjugation of those outside the privileged classes, obviously mostly comprised of caucasian males. That’s why I chose the immortal and brilliant artist Leadbelly to headline tonight’s post. The same business forces at work today to bust up unions, legitimize the racist apologetics of Michelle Malkin or sustain Rush Limbaugh’s corporate sponsored “Barack the Magic Negro” parodies will bring us back to, if left unchecked, the kind of brutal, pervasive poverty and exploitation Leadbelly subtly undermined through his art in his time, expressing as he did the blues of working African Americans barely out of historical slavery.
While it’s true that aristocratic corporatism will continue to subjugate light skinned people as well, the effects of our current pro-big business politics and cultural affinities are clearly, at least in part, racist, as American businesses feel free to exploit working people of color all over the globe, from the slave labor factories of Asia to the disempowered, disenfranchised immigrant labor community in this country. These same corporate forces own media paltforms that continually denigrate people of color and give platforms to anti-immigrant screeds laden with racially coded language.
It’s time to propel a new conversation about morality and American business, a conversation for the new century. We’ve had enough of conservatives like the John Birch Society, Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush, conservative aristocrats who justify the exploitation of the powerless and call it morally upright. I know many great businesspeople and CEO’s who do not operate from this mindset.
In fact, the greatest American entrepreneurial vigor comes from people who, rather than build anti-competitive regulatory roadblocks to innovation, must in fact fight against them while shouldering the burden of societal subsidies to corrupt pharmaceutical companies and the insurance lobby through ever rising health care costs. As leaders in smaller organizations who know more of their employees personally, they are far more aware of the value and growth potential inherent in human capital when you invest in people and put them in situations that make best use of any given person’s natural talents. There’s an incredible amount of leverage and profit in finding out what people do best and helping them grow.
It’s morally right to create national free broadband access. It’s also a great national investment. So is universal health care, leaving the insurance lobby essentially out of the conversation: the insurance companies have lost their moral credibility.
Business relationships are a subset of social relationships, the ways we interact with each other to attempt to cooperate economically for mutual benefit, the exchange of goods and services. Business is not some exceptional sui generis thing apart from all other modes of social interaction: it is a subset of human society, something people do, and therefore as subject to moral review as any other human activity. That is not to say it is the role of government to legislate morality, but it is the role of government to incent and create the minimal conditions to promote or sustain the principles of community life expressed in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Regulation of corporations plays a part in this, but right now, the regulations are being written in secret by bad corporate actors because, collectively, we let them.
There are people working to forward this needed, new conversation, like the corporate social responsibility folks, and even some departments of major business schools have ostensibly been created to examine these questions. But academics and people in the corporate social responsibility world are only part of the necessary national ecosystem required to undo decades of abuse and exploitation, and progressives like us can (and in my view) should begin to connect the dots publicly using moral terms.
The business community is answerable to the rest of society, and that’s us. The big business community propels a media infrastructure that in part promotes racism, whether it be Imus or Rush Limbaugh or Smerconish or Glen Beck or Pat Buchanan or Howie Kurtz’s mindless devotion to Our Lady of the Internment Camps (Michelle Malkin). Meanwhile, we’ve been creating our own, alternate media machine and national political narrative, but in my view, we still have a lot of work and talking to do to change America’s understanding of itself so that heroes are once again people who prosper by serving the community, be it through business or through any other human endeavor.
On an unrelated note, as one who has written previously that there is no “war on terror,” I feel duty bound to give major kudos to John Edwards for refusing to endorse this false metaphor when prompted to do so during the debate this week. Today Matt Stoller has brought more attention to the story. Why you people read me when I just seem to link to Stoller anyway, I have no idea.



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woo hoooo! Hi Pach!
IMPEACHMENT SUMMER !
Sweet Jane !!
Tried four times to watch Moyers’ piece on Josh Marshall. Each time, the feed froze the instant that Ben Cardin’s face came on screen. I suppose this comes as no surprise to anyone from Maryland, but I am somewhat annoyed. Does anyone know of a place other than the pbs website to view the clip?
Hi Pach!
Pach!
Very timely post. I actually heard Scott Simon bring up the OSHA story while driving into Flagstaff this morning It wasn’t long but he interviewed the NYT writer who did the story. An excellent comment on the lack safeguards due mainly to foxes guarding the henhouse. Which is the story of thei administration.
Capitalism is inherently flawed… racist and oppressive and explotive of labor… essentially dumps on the people.
Bidnes is what capitalism is about… take a step back and look at the assumption that capitalism can work for everyone… It can’t.
my, my, my Pachacutec – we don’t hear from you very often these days but you more than make up for it in quality posts – thanks !
and is that Leadbelly ? wow, jeebus I love the toobz
This slide into the morally indefensible such as corporate murder, as evidenced by the recent contaminated food recalls and the CEO as ‘God’ is compounded by that fundamental economic activity which ‘dare not speak it’s name’ Military Keynesianism.
The only area where America still owns a commanding lead in manufacturing is….
…making weapons.
I remember the time I heard the best performance of a Leadbelly song ever. It was also the creepiest, most bone chilling thing I’ve ever heard or seen on TV. Of course what I am talking about is the song that Nirvana ended their MTV Unplugged appearance with. Talk about haunting. Almost as haunting as the past 6 years have been.
Evening, Pach.
When those RNC emails show up, gosh do you think they’ll have the part where they rigged the 2004 election?
It pays to be a BusChen Faithful Crusader…
Or not…
Ahhh…the business of drowning Government in the bathtub. I suppose they’ll want to use privately owned water too.
DefJef @
8
Is there any system that can work for everyone?
Maybe the problem is dogma.
Of course, I’m a cat person.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 11
Was that “In The Pines”?
Leadbelly!
Evening all. Great post Pach.
Investigate, convict, incarcerate.
Speaking of Uncle Milty … I don’t think history will end up treating him very kindly. Heck, I never understood the big deal about him while he was alive. I couldn’t say why, but I felt he had very little in the way of a moral compass.
Capitalists… corporatists want inexpensive labor… to do that will create high unemployment or simply move their operations to low wage areas and driving the price of labor down to increase their profits. They want no taxes either… only profits… un earned income or value added from the labor or the workers.
LoudounLib @ 15
Yes. Or also known as, “Where Did You Sleep Last Night?”
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 14
Nice post Pach and good to see you. I agree that the Insurance Industry definitely needs o be taken out of the debate.
Thank you, Pach, for an illuminating and thoughtful post, as usual. The rapacious robber baron corporatists are ruining our social compact. Their goal, I suppose, is global feudalism, with themselves and their forever-heirs atop the pile. They expect to be able to wall themselves off from society’s troubles, without understanding FDR’s sensible idea to bring the disaffected into the commonweal as the only way to save it from complete upheaval.
Oh, and thanks for using “incent” instead of its corporate-speak bastard offspring “incentivize” — much appreciated!
PS I really enjoy reading your comments in Stoller’s threads.
ifthethunderdontgetya @ 14
And how far has catma gotten you?
burnspbesq @ 5
You might check your local PBS station’s website for rerun listings.
I don’t know… but I think private property and and the concept of share owenship will not work. The people must own the means of production and share the wealth created. Some form of communism without the authoritarianism and some ethical values to prevent cronyism.
Capitalism has not and will not work. Too much suffering for too many people. It gave us slavery didn’t it?
Texas Betsy @ 25
Catma rules!
Peterr @ 16
Yes LEadbelly!!
We should put all the Bushies on a chaingang and let bust rocks, pickup trash, and eat white bread and bolonege. Stripped uniforms are the order of the day.
I am signing off… this might develop into a good read tomorrow.
Think deep.
AZ Matt @ 29
Naw. Let ‘em do what Leadbelly did, build levees!
I’m a pro-capitalist. I believe in a system that fundamentally works to unleash human talent. It’s a very humanist ideology.
In America, with few exceptions. we’re all believers in managed, regulated capitalism. The argument is over what the regulations should be and who gets to sit at the table when the decisions are made.
Texas Betsy @ 25
My cat Max died (early 2005) after 21 years of being the best cat ever. I’ll be ready to adopt again when I move to a cat friendly building.
Some of the Bill Moyers/Jon Stewart interview here.
Pachacutec @ 32
And whether those appointed to regulate their former industries have any faith in regulation whatsoever!
TeddySanFran @ 35
Why would they?
OT
Abt the McMadam fallout, I wonder if she received any RNC e-mails from any clients?
Wow, Parachute, are you trying to make us think on a lonely Saturday night? Great stuff..let me read it again and try to get on board.
Pachacutec @ 32
Capitalism has the potential to do this, but there is also ample evidence that it often works to suppress innovation. Further, capitalism has an inherent tendency toward consolidation and monopoly or oligopoly, which stifles innovation. I think a system of decentralized socialism (worker controlled corporations/collectives) without the centralized planning which characterized the old Soviet system could achieve the same degree of innovation.
Heh. . . when my partner asked me over dinner what I was writing about tonight, and I told him, he said, “Shit, you’re going to make them think deep on a Saturday night?”
Sorry.
Well said, Pach.
The concept laid down by Milton Friedman was that the only responsibility of a corporation is to maximize return for shareholders. Corporations are provided a legal benefit – limited liability – and, in return, should be required to act in the public interest. This issue, as well as the fiction of corporate personhood, is discussed at this site.
Suzanne — mailbox please.
As soon as it gets here, TB. Slow tubes tonight on my end unfortunately.
Pachacutec @ 32
Most rightwingers are blissfully unaware of how regulation has made their “unfettered capitalism” flourish.
Government, especially when exercising the role of oversight and regulation, works to provide a level playing field, insure accurate public information, promote public safety and public health, etc.
The best, most concise, and pithiest statement on the benefits of government came from Monty Python in The Life of Brian: “All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?”
Jay @ 38
Just so you know, my screen name has nothing at all to do with jumping out of a plane.
But thanks!
Renee in Ohio @ 34
The whole interview HERE. Plus extras including Josh Marshall (TPM) on Gonza/USAs
Pachacutec @ 45
So what does your screen name mean? Inquiring minds want to know!
Damn. This is one of my all-time favourite posts, Pach….from anyone! Start the music playing, then read the post, and it’s like watching a great scene out of a movie.
This post covers what is the very core problem with modern day America. The Framers of our Constitution understood and anticipated the dynamics we’re living with today, since after all, human behaviour is quite predictable, isn’t it? That’s why they built in so many layers of checks and balances, and that’s why the Constitution-haters, or in other words the Republicans, have been working behind the scenes to dismantle the checks and balances.
Balance. Yin-yang. The world is like a giant teeter-totter that only works when there is give and take. If one side of the totter has too much weight, it doesn’t work and one side is left high and dry. Too much profit-motive control is bad. Too much government control is bad. Finding and maintaining a good balance between the two is what has made, and hopefully will continue to make America great. The Constitution demands this balance and it’s up to each one of us to restore it.
Consider donating to the “Roots Project” on the right side of this post, and support more writing like this! Brilliant.
Texas Betsy @ 47
World turner . . . and then some.
I taught a class in consumer law years ago. The textbook opened with a quote, which I remember as “The sole purpose of production is consumption; therefore the interest of the producer should be attended only to the extent that it benefits the consumer.” I had it in my mind that this was from The Wealth of Nations, but could not find it there.
I believe that the major problem facing us today is the concentraton of wealth in fewer and fewer hands. The richest people in the country have at least two trillion in capital, which is deployed in hedge funds and other financial institutions, all in search of 20-30% returns. This money is deployed all over the economy, distorting capital flows. A large amount of it went into petroleum futures, and drove the price of oil up. Other huge sums went into derivatives based on mortgages, leading to overinvestment in sub-prime loans and liar loans. This in turn is going to lead to the bad outcome of the housing markets.
In the 1980s, Reagan persuaded a democratic controlled congress to raise social security taxes, supposedly to preserve the system. The money was used to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy, many of whom used it to buy treasury bonds, lending the government money they used to pay in taxes. Now we have truly screwed up public finance.
FWIW, it seems to me that what we should do is to tax capital, with a large exemption amount (preferably more than I have) and increase the taxes on the rich.
Pachacutec @ 45
Sorry.. I wasn’t trying to do a Bush cutesy re-name.. I read it fast and read it wrong, my apologies, Pachacutec.
It’s about time someone spoke the unspeakable.
*Leave the insurance companies out of the universal health care*. As far as I’m concerned, they can go piss up a rope!
Pachacutec @ 32
The strenght of capitalism has derived primarily from competition between many suppliers. Unfortunately, the system has an inherent tendency toward concentration and monopoly, which in turn stifles innovation (look at the US auto industry). I think you could achieve the same results with a decentralized socialism (worker controlled corporations/collectives) without the centralized planning which plagued and ultimately destroyed the old Soviet system.
yellowdogD @ 52
Let them stay as non-profits..
Texas Betsy @
36
Napoleon Hill, the grandfather of inspirational speakers, in his book “Think and Grow Rich” talks about morals as the backbone to success. He even discussed the success of Bethlehem Steel and how they cared for their workers. Boy, if he was alive to see how that company ended up …
Ok. WordPress has eaten my last two posts. Any suggestions as to why?
Dr. Dick, there is some word you are using that is tripping the spam filters – I freed both of your posts – if you refresh your page (not just the comments) you should see them. I’ll look to see if I can figure out why they tripped the filter.
masaccio @ 50
We have a copy of Howard Zinn’s People’s History of the US, and in it he often talks about what percentage of the wealth or property was controlled by what percentage of the people. Equality was never a big part of our heritage. Closest we came was the middle class that arose after FDR and after WW II.
DrDick @ 55
F5 and refresh…look again. Are they in Moderation?
Suzanne @ 57
Bet it was the word CAPITALIST.
Jay @
54
Non- profits are just as corrupt as ‘for profits’, they just don’t pay taxes.
Pachacutec @ 32
One more try at this. Capitalism’s strength derives from competition among multiple suppliers which promotes innovation. Unfortunately, capitalism also inherently tends towards concentration and monopoly, which in turn stifles innovation. I think you can achieve the same result with a decentralized socialism (worker controlled corporations/collectives) without the centralized planning which doomed the old Soviet system.
Why were they so smart in 1946? Despotism (1946) Encyclopedia Brittanica Films
Jay @ 50
No worries. Matt Stoller, whom I link almost to a pornographic excess in the main post, used to make the same mistake with great frequency.
I adopted the screen name as a lowly newbie commenter at DailyKos when I was an online “nobody.” It was an historical allusion and tribute to my grandfather, a native of Peru and a formative influence in my life. It took off from there after Jane drafted me for front page duty here.
Texas Betsy @
60
More likely it was Socialist.
My family is home. :) Back soon.
Please play more of the Bluesmen. I am a blues freak and do not get to see them posted much.
Once or twice C & L posted muddy but, that is all
vwcat @ 67
I’ll second that emotion.
FDL so totally effin’ ROCKS!!
I am so pumped, this place really makes my day. Every day. All day.
Thank you Team FDL!!
Lou Costello @ 63
It’s all about the balance. The concept of yin-yang has been around for centuries.
Inside the word soc*al*sm is the name of a brand name drug which is frequently used by spammers and will trip the moderation filters.
Moderators will free those comments as soon as possible.
Thanks.
WTF??? After Katrina, U.S. Did Not Accept Most Offers of Aid *I blame Babs!
RBG @ 71
Ahhh. I see what you are referring to. Glad to know it is not a political filter.;)
burnspbesq @
5
Try clearing your cookies. The reason it always stops there is because that’s where pbs thinks you stopped, for whatever reason.
I hope Waxman rips Chertoff’s butt entirely off! It is like Brownie is still on the job. Oh, I forgot, this is Rove’s responsibiblity. Subpeona Now! Subpeona Now! Subpeona Now! Subpeona Now!
THis is ineptitude to the Nth degree!
Thank you Pachacutec for this post. I very much appreciate your writing and viewpoint. I have been watching the oil business in West Africa, where there is a desperate need for some big business morality. This is even more of a worry since the creation of
Africom. What we don’t need in in any part of Africa is more environmental devastation and proxy wars. As Nicholas Shaxxon writes “At the start of the last oil boom in 1970, one-third of Nigerians lived in poverty; now, four hundred billion dollars in oil and gas earnings later, two-thirds are poor. People often put the problem like this: oil money would be a blessing but politicians steal it, so people don’t see the benefits. But it’s much worse: the oil wealth not only doesn’t reach ordinary people, but it actively makes them poorer. It took me years to really accept this counter-intuitive idea. But after all I’ve seen, I have no doubts.”
And the rise of the mercenaries and private CIAs is also worrisome. The Spy Who Billed Me is particularly informative, such as here and here
Well written, Pachacutec.
…More blues
;>)
Lou Costello @ 63
Thank you for this link. This is something we all need to see. We’re screwed.
darkblack @ 77
Sweet link.
DefJef @
20
So true. I usually call conservatives, “Cheap Labor” conservatives. You can apply it to any issue, just about. They don’t want minorities having equal rights, because then they couldn’t get cheap labor out of them. Same with gays. Women? Oh, they get the double whammy: Pay them so little that they’ll get back in that kitchen and pop out plenty of babies. Make sure to get rid of abortion, so that they’re constantly pregnant, which has the extra benefit of flooding the market with too many people, which drives down wages even more.
Everything they do is for cheap labor. Everything.
OT..But in California, Obama wants to find common ground with other parties. WTF..Why should anyone want to find common ground with a criminal enterprise. This another example of Obama wanting to make nice with the Republicans. The only goal of a Democratic President and Congress should restoration of the rule of law and therefore the destruction of the current Republican Party.
Hello!
Can’t stay long. Just popped in to say hi. Had much fun. See all y’all Sunday.
—Cassie
Steve @ 81
Please don’t get me started. I’ve been on very good behavior during the primaries.
LJ/Aquaria @ 80
Actually, everything they do is to increase profits, which in turn increases their personal wealth. People are expendable to them, but profits are not. The system is inherently immoral.
And how about the morality of the pharmaceutical and health insurance industries? The Medicare D debacle provides those of us in health care with ongoing headaches. Provide patients with drug coverage and then charge them $226 for a co-pay for a cancer drug. Tie doctors, nurses, and social workers up for hours on the phone in an effort to get a prior approval for a needed med. (How is money being saved with this level of bureaucracy?) And then after all the frustration and wasted hours, their sales reps want to buy staff lunch and tell them about their new drugs. But,Big Pharma and their patron, former Congressman/current pharma spokesperson, Billy Tauzin have made out splendidly.
And what about the morality of these very same companies that conduct research in places like Afica? They hold out hope for treatment and cure when in fact, they conduct clinical trials with with unsuspecting people who are given placebos.
Oh I could go on and on. I started working in health care 30 years ago when it was about care and service. Now it is big business and it is very, very disheartening.
LJ/Aquaria @
80
Even the Christian stuff? And the school testing stuff?
SnarKassandra @ 82
Hi & Bye Cassie!
neokneme @ 13
Where’s the whistle blowers when you need them? Come out, where ever you are.
1,500 DAYZ AND THE KILLIN’ GOEZ ON AND ON AND..
Citizen Pachacutec and the Firepup Patriots:
“In America, with few exceptions, we’re all believers in managed, regulated capitalism.”
I don’t know if we aren’t bogged down in terminology that doesn’t fit the post industrial age and, as a result, limits our political vocabulary. I think we are in a post capitalist situation…and if we aren’t willing to attempt to find a new definition of the relationship of economics to democracy, then I don’t think we are gunna survive the lethal problems that loom before us in global warming and the need for sustainable local and regional economies.
Not only do I think that there are many more of us out here who are NOT believers in the old definition of capitalism that you seem to take for granted…I don’t think that THAT capitalism exists anymore (if it ever did) and, in any case, can’t be re-created in a now resource poor planet.
KEEP THE FAITH AND LET’S HAVE THIS DISCUSSION AFTER WE HAVE TAKEN CAPITALISM OUT WITH THE TRASH!!
I’ve been at the hospital w/ a sick aunt for the last 8 hrs (she’s fine). Did I miss anything? Anyone resign, get indicted, raided, decide to spend more time with family?
DrDick @
56
It thought you were a Commie.
AZ Matt @
75
Wanna really get your goat? Remember all those video clips of the Coast Guard Helicopters rescuing people right after? Well, they were Canadian choppers, who got there before the American Choppers could be sent by “Heckuva job Brownie”.
Gunga Djinn @ 91
It was right.
Capitalism without democracy is the same as gangsterism.
Lately, under BushCo, the US has been stripping away its democracy, leaving just the capitalism.
Bishop Spong makes a good point:
Capitalism . . . has within it the seeds of its own destruction if it allows more and more of the available wealth to be confined into the hands of fewer and fewer of the people. This was the capitalism that Karl Marx felt would finally destroy itself. Capitalism, however, as lived out in the western world has been tempered by social legislation that taxes the wealthy to provide benefits for the poor and middle classes. Capitalism courts revolution when it allows the wealthy to get too wealthy and the poor to get too poor.
Unfortunately, I noted, the recent history of the United States has moved in exactly that direction. During the eight years of the Bill Clinton presidency, which was a major portion of the decade of the 90’s, more wealth was produced for Americans than in any other decade in our national history. Indeed, it expanded the wealth of America to twice what had been produced in the entire history of an independent America. It also widened the gap between the rich and the poor to levels never before seen. That gap has widened even more under the presidency of George Bush and today rests at what I regard as dangerous levels. Every economic program of the Bush administration has been designed to enhance the wealth of the wealthy and, in fact, has exacerbated the poverty of the poor. So we have an economic policy that allows CEOs to be paid hundreds of millions of dollars, made up of salary and stock options, while refusing to provide health care for more than 40 million citizens and allowing our public schools to be significantly under funded.
John Shelby Spong, Q&A Newsletter, Feb 21,2007
SnarKassandra @ 86
The Christian stuff is the distraction that allows them to position themselves as the “values” party. The testing is an opportunity to destroy the concept of public education by setting goals and a teach to the test regime that can only fail. Hey presto, we privatize education and Bush cronies and relatives get rich.
crossedcrocodiles @ 94
In point of fact the crack cocaine trade is a perfect window on the reality of true free market capitalism.
Pachacutec @ 82
Please get started. This one issue has made me re-think Hillary. Of all of the candidates, she has the motive and the personality to seek revenge and gut these MF’s. I will count on a
Democratic Congress to push a liberal social agenda if Hillary will restore the Constitution and the Rule of Law. Enforcing the law will put most Republicans in prison. Joel Hefley may have been the last honest Republican and he was purged. May the rest rot in Hell.
Joe Klein’s conscience @
19
You have to understand, his ideal was the Roaring ’20s when ‘life was good’ and with the Great Depression to follow the comparison made it clear that less regulation and small government was perfect. Of course, this is narrow thinking and self-serving for the Rich.
Anyone ever seen a couple split up and the woman immediately called the cops on her man or got a lawyer to sic the court on him? What’s happening is the use of government as a bully-boy.
Anyone read (or heaven forbid) watch ‘Bonfire of the Vanities’? In it a Rich Wall Street broker is caught in a compromising situation and destroyed. He loses everything and is ground up in the legal system down to dust — INNOCENT, but destroyed.
Those are examples of what the Republican rhetoric tells us is wrong with government.
The same is true of the Modern Corporation. Individuals (perhaps sociopaths) can do tremendous damage to our society if they’re not observed, regulated and punished for wrong-doing.
Government and corporations must be controlled, checked, governed.
The problems began immediately and are seen clearly in ‘Mr. Smith Goes to Washington’, where Mr. Potter is sloughed off as irrelevant and pathetic until he almost destroys the town.
In ‘The Wizard of Oz’ we see a tale of tremendous power managed by a blustering buffoon (the Wiz) and how he’s brought down by simply pulling back the curtain.
Later we had the Robber Barons who brought down the country with their stock manipulations and corporate robberies which bankrupted America and much of the world (remember, that was a world-wide depression).
Today we’re just seeing the same trend exacerbated to the point where they’re tossing Americans in the trash in favor of any other labor source that’s cheaper and easier to manage with dictatorial governments and no oversight or constraint.
It IS the worst of all possible worlds, except what is to come next.
Can anyone doubt that this over-reaching has to lead to some kind of economic disaster, perhaps another stock market crash helped along by the sinking dollar, oil prices and one or two unforseen disasters which ripple around the world like so many toppling dominoes?
We do have a problem, but it’s not new. It’s unchecked power.
After painting such a bleak picture the problem is what kinds of policies should be followed to keep the power in check. Our problem today is that far too many people are benefitting from this criminal destruction of America. Who has sufficient power to bring into check all the Rich and Political class who are currently running amok? Bloggers hardly stand a chance and Dennis Kucinich does indeed look like a young lad out of place, yapping at the adults who ignore him.
We need more than one or two good politicians.
Remember how the HillaryCare plan was ignored? Americans wanted some kind of plan and the fact it wasn’t done shows who truly has the power in America. It’s scary.
The solution? I don’t know. Maybe the seeds of our own destruction were planted long ago and can’t be removed. Maybe it’s in our DNA to crash & burn. I think the Republicans want it to happen to give them dictatorial powers. If that large segment of America wants it, then you either have another Civil War or it happens peacefully. Neither is appealing.
How do you have peace when the criminals are the only ones with guns (and money)? I wish the Rich would think a lot more about where things are headed, but I fear it’s their representatives in the Republican party (and a few Dems) who do all the political thinking and see this trend as serving their interests.
Who in the Power Structure is looking out for the future of the entire system?
DrDick @
96
Have you read Freakonomics?
I’ll send this one out to bigots and syndicators everywhere…You know where you are
>:-(
It’s a Wonderful Life.
Steve @ 97
Unfortunately, she is really a moderate Republican (before the species went largely extinct). There is little or no difference between her policy positions and those of Gerald Ford (or Richard Nixon for that matter).
NYT’s editorials for Sunday: LINK
Still Waiting for Answers
Why, after all this time, are Americans still in the dark about many of the Bush administration’s most important decisions?
Strengthening Abortion Rights
Gov. Eliot Spitzer has produced a sound proposal aimed at shoring up women’s reproductive rights in New York State.
Better to Be the Best
As global competition heats up, Americans will have to get used to having more of their companies fall from the top spot.
darkblack @ 100
That is one of my favorite JLH songs ever! Now I’m going back to actually listen to it.
Pachacutec @
83
Not to dispute you, oh wise one, but I think Obama said this to get ahead of the rest and
pander towoo the moderate Republicans, who will wrest control from the neocons later this year. If he wants to win the Presidency, he has to woo them, make them show they’re not like the neocons by voting for him. He’s smart and cunning … will be a close nomination unless Gore enters.Did someone mention school testing? Could there be a link between what has happened to the WaPo and their cash hog Kaplan educational services and the Republican criminal enterprise?
Beautiful. Notice that 12 string.
This slide into the morally indefensible such as corporate murder, as evidenced by the recent contaminated food recalls and the CEO as ‘God’ is compounded by that fundamental economic activity which ‘dare not speak it’s name’ Military Keynesianism.
The only area where America still owns a commanding lead in manufacturing is….
…making weapons.
Dr.Dick@96
You are too right about the crack cocaine trade.
Sunshine @ 88 is what it is all about:
“~} Look Ma! There’s the Matterhorn! We’re almost there!
Steve @ 106
Not sure what you mean, but I’d love to hear more.
I have yet to see real signs of leadership among our Democratic candidates, though I would hasten to add that all of them are better than any GOP alternative.
That said, here’s my current view: Senator Clinton is not a progressive but rather a centrist elitist with center-left tendencies, as was her husband (though he was far more charismatic and politically gifted).
Senator Obama has some progressive instincts but they get overwhelmed by his tendency to want to bridge gaps among all people. I have yet to see him deliver a punch and withstand any assault from the right that forces him to stand up for people who need advocacy without subtly selling them out through his characterological need to sing kumbayah.
Former Senator Edwards has these latent progressive sentiments, perhaps belonging more to his wife than himself, that he is beginning to trust but he is nevertheless cautious. He is the kind of Southern do-gooder (and, believe it or not, I mean that as a compliment), who wants to do the right thing but who also finds himself struggling to remain acceptable to his parents, who represent a fundamentally conservative (pro-authority) point of view.
There is no true, self-confident progressive leader among our leading candidates, but among the ones I see now, Edwards may be more workable than Obama, but I could be wrong. Hillary represents triangulation and pro-corporatism of the Bill Clinton mold reprised.
For all that, my essential focus now is to help people focus on the local grassroots takeover of the Democratic Party so that future pressure on any party standard bearer will push them more and more toward an authentic progressive agenda. In that sense, I am a progressive/liberal, rather than a Democratic, partisan.
The solutions are in the Constitution. If the electorate was more informed about the Constitution and what goes on in their government, the checks and balances would correct abberations like the Shrub Administration.
The American Constitution is one of the greatest documents ever. It needs to be respected and followed in order to work. And, it’s not that old. America is still the “great experiment.”
Now since we’re experimenting, get out yer bunsen burners, put on some safety goggles, and heat up this sucker up and see what happens. It’s up to us!
Loo Hoo @ 107
Indeed. Thanks for pointing that out. He was an unparalleled guitarist.
Interesting post. I had an RSS head’s up that Matt was writing about NN-related topics at MyDD today, so I spent quite a bit of time there myself (which was a nice break from a very boring technical doc, if I may say so 8^)
I have very strong views that parts of the software sector are among the most entreprenurial segments of the US economy. Consequently, the failure to protect NN will drive a stake right into a key segment of the US economy.
The fact that a PUBLIC UTILITY (the phone companies, now morphed into telecoms) argues that after years of tax breaks, regulatory protections, and monopoly pricing they are somehow ‘missing out’ on Google millions is infuriating to me. The fact that the CWA is being a pawn of overpaid CEO’s is just appalling, and those people need to wake up to the deeper implications of their actions.
The whole telecom {bogus} argument that NN will somehow damage the abillity of telecoms to ‘protect their investment’ is classic managerial capitalism.
IMHO, the NN issue really does place the issue on the table: is the US government going to cover the butts of managerial capitalists who derive profit from a monopoly, or are they going to help some of us entreprenuers who are working our butts off to create new products and services?
If the US government decides to cover the butts of the managerial capitalists, then those of us hauling ass to be creative are screwed. Does the US government want innovation? IF it does, then it needs to get some spine and help us entreprenuers out.
By protecting NN, a whole lot of ’social capital’ is created by churches, garden clubs, soccer teams, and all the other groups that coordinate using email and small websites. So there’s an economic rationale, and also a social rationale for NN.
Failure to staunchly support NN is the epitome of how American government, and its citizens, have lost sight of what ENTREPRENURIAL biz can do for society.
(As a side note, I despise Communism; traveled through the Eastern Block back in the day, and from what I could discern, it was a soul-killing system. People grow more in capitalist economies, which REQUIRE that gov’t act as a ‘referee’ or else the whole system becomes a social sewer pit of rampant exploitation.)
Finally, Howie Klein wrote one of my favorite economic (and social) analyses at his Down With Tyranny blog: “Who’s Gonna Save Capitalism This Time?”
It discusses how biz culture has shifted from an entreprenurial, socially responsible endeavor to managerial greed. I highly recommend it, as I saw very much the same behaviors in a rather different dotcom setting.
http://downwithtyranny.blogspo…..-time.html
EXCERPT: “… The dotcom managerial hierarchy was all about grotesque and predatory greed and avarice. The feelings of self-entitlement and unbounded greed knew no boundaries (literally) and the managers, very consciously, set out to screw the suppliers, screw the employees (really badly), screw the owners (shareholders) and screw Society. ”
bonkers @ 113
:) Well said.
Jay @
54
There is no such thing as a non-profit(Yes, it is snark).
From the WH or the movie Running Man (you decide)…
Texas Betsy @ 116
I think people are forgetting what Ben Franklin said way back when. Something about giving the people a Republic, if they can keep it. It seems to me that a lot of people don’t like living in a Republic. :-(
Petrocelli @ 104
Gore is my pick but I don’t think he is going to run. I have followed Hillary for 25 years and I am not sure what her politics are. She was raised in a Republican family but I think she is Liberal in thought. On the other hand she will say anything to get elected. She got that from Bill and folks called it triangulation. The problem is she doesn’t have Bill’s political skills. But she does have the motive to fuck the Republicans and that is what is needed. Again I will rely on a strong, progressive Congress to push a just social agenda.
Peterr @
16
Makes me proud to be an American again.
A scene from my childhood…Although if I could remember it, perhaps I wasn’t really there
;>)
Said by my favorite economist, Thorstein Veblen:
There is more profit in chaos.
Pachacutec @
112
We all know who the best candidate out there is, but he won’t run(and as much as I might like Al Gore 2.0, it’s not him).
darkblack @ 122
Yeah. I used to live in Chicago and loved to go see Buddy play at his club. He was especially great during the two week gig he always did there in midwinter. He was always so happy to home and in front of a home town crowd. Just rocked the house down.
DrDick @ 83
I agree completely. But cheap labor is one of those things that makes people who seem to think that unfettered capitalism is a good thing get back on their heels a little.
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 124
Who are you thinking of?
Pachacutec @
112
WOW, age is wisdom. I kneel before you oh Incan God of Wisdom. The Dems should fire their handlers and hire you.
Al Gore has become a political cipher. Were he to enter the race now, with all the messianic fervor behind him, he could only go down and disappoint.
These are humans, people. It’s up to us to lead. . . and push like fucking hell.
LJ/Aquaria @ 126
True.
crossedcrocodiles @ 94
Hence the need for the military-industrial complex.
Didn’t see the DemocratIC debate the other night, but from the clips at C&L, Mike Gravel was my favorite BY FAR. He called out the frontrunners for what they are, serial panderers, especially with the “all options on the Iran table” crowd.
Looking at his web site, http://www.gravel2008.us , you see as a Senator in D.C., he filibustered FOR 5 MONTHS, to help end the draft during Vietnam, and was responsible for releasing the Pentagon Papers and helping get Nixon out of office.
Don’t really know much about him, but might be worth your support at least to shift the debate more to the left. Hey, Ned Lamont was down over 40%, and within a few months beat LieberME in the Dem primary. Ya never know….
Gunga Djinn @ 131
EW! Never saw those two juxtaposed like that.
Texas Betsy @ 110
I have not researched it but Kaplan Educational Services is a subsidiary of WaPo Inc. and puts > 300 million into the corp. I believe that the WaPo was a big supporter of “No Child left Behind” since Kaplan is a big test-prep business.
Gunga Djinn @ 131
Also for the current rise of the “security” state, which is just an excuse to spy on everyone.
Gunga Djinn @ 90
Careful, there. I’m close to resembling that remark, comrade. ;)
LJ/Aquaria @ 136
I think two makes a quorum. Let the revolution begin! ;)
Monk @ 85
Today I received a notice that my insurance company would no longer carry my pain medication generic Ox*c*nt*n. WTF I have chronic pain syndrome. Have been on it for years. Anyway that was the third problem. Two other drugs won’t be covered Mar*n*l for nausea and Prov*g*l for cognitive disorder. Whats next the drug that shrinks my brain tumor? Oy sorry to much info but these asshol*s don’t know how hard it is to finally have pain, nausea, headaches under control and with a swipe of the pen it’s all gone. Oh and I get to start all over again with no chance of patient assistance programs because I have medicare part D . Oh the shrink I see that keeps me off the ledge as of next month he no longer accepts medicare. No cure for lolo only drugs for comfort but not for long. Pach!
Ps. I wonder who is bogarting the Ox*c*n*n. Can No Longer Find Generic. Will Not Cover Brand. WTF M*th*done for all?
MarkH @
98
So Uncle Milty didn’t learn from history? As far as the rest of what you wrote, I agree. My dearly deaprted grandfather was telling me 20 years ago(when I was just a wee lass) that this country is headed for a reckoning one of these days. How he could see it at the beginning of Ray-gun, I don’t know. I remember his words almost verbatim. He said the rich will try with all their might to squeeze out the middle class. The problem is, the middle class is what makes this country what it is. My grandfather predicted at some point things will get so bad in this country that we’ll have a revolution that will make the Civil War look like childs play. He thought that nothing short of revolution will stop the robber barons and other so called titans of capitalism.
We began as an agricultural society where the difference in wealth was largely the number of slaves and the acreage one owned.
Today the Modern Corporation in America allows a CEO (and some others near the top) to be extraordinarily rich as an incentive to make the corporation and it’s owners more wealthy. This is an exacerbation of the Japanese model or the pre-1980s American model. It promotes a larger wealth differential because there are some people who want “more more more” and “just can’t stop” (as the disco songs of that era said). It was under Reagan/Bush when things began to really go wild.
I’d suggest controlling CEO wages, but who is going to enforce that when it’s the Rich who created that idea and support it entirely by supporting Republicans.
Again, it comes back to the politicians and all the chattering class discussing and convincing themselves and the Rich of some better way for our society to work.
I’ve been told that much of today’s science fiction is on this topic too. It’s well worth considering since little in life survives forever unchanged.
Unfortunately my feeling is that those who have the power won’t give it up or allow any major changes unless some naturally-occuring disaster (like a Great Depression) occurs and forces their hands. Even then they hated FDR and didn’t understand he was saving America from the Socialists. They might’ve thanked him if they could see past their noses and anger.
I have faith in America because there are few great forces in the world which might destroy us in a moment of weakness. But, I fear because we have the power to destroy so much, including ourselves.
You are fabulous! Last night was the best that I could sleep to ever.
solai @ 90
(((((solai)))))))
It was A JOKE, people.
lighten up!
(or should I say comrades?)
:P
DrDick @ 135
How is that military-industrial complex thing working out for is in Iraq?
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 139
Your grandfather obviously remembered pre-Depression America, where similar conditions prevailed. Interestingly, for all that conservatives hate him, FDR was all that saved American from a socialist revolution (well that and Stalin).
lolo @ 138
Texas Betsy @ 127
The junior Senator from Wisconsin. The Honorable Russell Feingold.
Texas Bertsy @ 133
You didn’t think they were there to protect you, did you?
DID YOU?
Joe Klein’s conscience @ 144
The military-industrial complex is not supposed to work for US, it is supposed to work for the investor class, who are doing quite nicely, thank you. And they do not give a damn what happens to the rest of us (listen to Babs Bush sometime).
Steve @ 97
But will she do it?
Pachacutec @
32
I’m not :)
[disciple in Life of Brian ]
When seniors fight to protect Social Security and Medicare, that’s not a vote for managed, regulated capitalism.
The majority of registered voters support single-payer health care: that’s not a vote for for capitalism, either.
The majority of Americans has turned against privatization of our public schools, our public water sources and – where we still have them – our local utilities.
In the West, the majority of Americans’ water relies upon Federal public works.
In the Northwest, the majority of Americans depend upon vast Federal public works for electricity.
And the vast majority oppose privatization of these key economic sectors.
As they oppose privatization of the Federal Higway System. And support massive Federal public subsidies for Amtrak and local mass transit.
And join credit unions by the millions.
Pach, I hope I’m not being difficult, but I don’t think the assessment in your comment is accurate.
I do believe the assessment accurately reflects what people say about themselves.
When they self-identify, the majority of Americans will say they believe in capitalism – while enjoying and seeking expansion of socialist institutions.
As the vast majority of Americans are never presented with conceptual alternatives (we have “business news” – where’s the big US paper with a “labor” section?), much less operational definitions for non-capitalist models, we are Europeans among the Inuit.
The Inuit look across their white world and see frozen water in dozens of forms – and each form has a name.
We Europeans look out on the snow.
And tens of millions of Red state seniors fight for their Medicare and Social Security, while their neighbors fight to preserve Federal farm subsidies to grow their crops…
and the huge Federal river projects required throughout the Mississipi Basin to barge their crops to global markets.
Global sales subsidized by US Export-Import Bank and US foreign aid dollars.
And vote Republican ’cause they hate those godless socialists.
Because America is a capitalist nation.
[Actually, in living memory America had large and powerful Socialist parties - during the extreme economic upheavals that followed our first Gilded Age.]
_______________________________________________
Pach – I don’t for a moment believe this pertains to you
- but when I look at:
1) Americans’ self-identification as “capitalist”.
2) Americans’ political jihad against capitalist educational systems and “old age” pension/health care.
3) The pervasive “socialization” necessary to leave us lacking the concepts and language required to recognize viable alternatives to capitalism.
I keep wondering who could possibly care so much about our capacity to discuss alternative economic systems that they’d pour in all those resources indefinitely. ‘Cause that ceaseless investment is the cost to maintain condition 3).
Then I look at condition 2), and imagine Americans taking the “public” in public schools far, far beyond Medicare and Social Security.
To Big Energy, Big Pharma, Big Insurance, Big War Toys, and Big Finance.
Seems like other people imagined it – and decided paying for 3) was cheaper.
Pachacutec @ 129
Thank you. Get a little tired of the Gore worship sometimes. Wonder how excited people would be about him if he had to answer questions everyday, and take a stand on many different issues. He was a “centrist” through and through during his public life. Active supporter of NAFTA, Telecommunications Act, etc.
Steve: Hillary is inclined to stand up to Repukelickins?!? One of her good friends and major fundraisers is one of the greatest haters of our Constitution….Rupert Murdoch.
Yes! I would vote for Feingold in a minute!
Pachacutec @ 111
I’ve been saying this for years, as a Democratic partisan, who also happened to be a liberal. This is why I did a great big, “Hallelujah! Finally!” when Howard Dean started his 50-state strategy. It gets people involved locally, where everything starts. Tip O’Neill was right: all politics really is local. Fighting for every office down to dogcatcher has a wealth of benefits that no top-down strategy can hope to equal.
DrDick @ 136
Why do I have this sudden urge to sing La Internationale….?
Yup. I’m nodding my head in agreement like one of those toy dogs in the back window of an old Buick Roadmaster.
What they teach in business school about ethics can be pretty dismal. Surprisingly, at a private libertarian-leaning business school, I learned far more than I expected on the topic, because I had a moderately progressive instructor (a local judge) who used not an American textbook but an English textbook on the subject. The Judge taught us that business ethics consists of making the best decision for long-term shareholder value, with reasonable decency and distributive justice.
Wow. What a mouthful.
Reasonableness, in the legal sense, all American business students should understand, since most are required to have a semester or two of business under their belts. Decency, though, isn’t discussed except in a highly abbreviated and abstract fashion. Distributive justice is also rather abstruse, if covered at all in American business schools.
And long-term shareholder value? American business students will hammer out shareholder value in financial management, accounting and econ all ways to Sunday, but they focus on quarter-to-quarter, year-over-year comparisons of value, and not for periods longer than this. Therein is the single largest problem with the teaching of business in America — we raise a breed of people with the expectations and demands that numbers will improve every damned month, quarter, year, without really discussing what comprises real value, or what long-term means and what measuring to that standard instead of short-term does to both business and society.
You see, those of us with investments are a considerable portion of the problem in America. We are the drivers that demand that persistent, consistent improvement in our stock performance; we don’t ask ourselves how is this value made as we cash our dividend checks. We expect the corporations to hire equally demanding business school grads who’ll do anything and everything to ensure that we get our increased shareholder value NOW, not in a year or two years.
There’s nothing reasonable about this perspective, nothing decent; there’s nothing distributive or just about it, either. And yet where do we start to change this social corruption?
Here, at FDL, is one place to start; we should be asking ourselves whether an increase in value to the entire community and society is not just as valuable as an increase in value to any individual, and if we shouldn’t be looking for leaders who encourage that rising tide that lifts all boats.
LJ/Aquaria @ 152
Well, it is almost May Day!
Good, the Repubs supported George, now they can go down with him.
LINK
LJ/Aquaria @ 152
The revolution will not be EPU’d.
I assume y’all covered this earlier today?
More smokin’ old style blues here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjPezeHN9Hc
bonkers @ 150
Gore definitely has some serious baggage. He’s been with the DLC from the beginning, and that’s bad enough. I don’t know if he still holds true to them.
A lot of people still remember Tipper’s war on naughty lyrics. Lot of bad blood there.
Gore has also taken some problematic stands on abortion; I don’t know if this were a Machiavellian stance to win his seat in conservative TN…or if he really believed it. I’m never really sure.
Don’t get me wrong. I like Gore. I appreciate many things about him. But I’m not sure where the progressive ends…and the conservative southerner begins.
bonkers @ 156
But will it be podcasted?
At a little something contemporary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctoL9t50Kxo
Believe it or not, I’m right now listening to the Schoolhouse Rock song about the Constitution.
I’m a geek.
DrDick @ 155
Hey! You’re right.
What’s depressing is how few people know the origin of May Day. Most schools don’t teach about Haymarket at all. Not many (if any) retrospectives on the TeeVee about it, either.
LJ/Aquaria @ 159
I have to agree with this assessment. I really like some of the things he has been saying and doing lately, but given his past, I still do not trust him.
Rebuilt Iraq Projects Found Crumbling
By JAMES GLANZ
Inspectors found that in a sampling of eight projects declared successes by the U.S., seven were no longer operating as designed.
Pachacutec @ 165
Heh. Played that ad nauseum last summer so that my kids could learn the Preamble by heart.
Pachacutec @ 162
I have that on CD! The whole collection. (OK, my son owns them, but ….)
LJ/Aquaria @ 163
Can’t say that I have ever seen one and I lived in Chicago for 12 years.
I’m listening to The Pig, currently playing Maria McKee You’ve Gotta Sin To Get Saved.
This one disgusts me beyond belief!
A little more Buddy smokin’ up the stage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuRhaDrnlWo
LJ/Aquaria @ 151
Right on. Dr. Dean could be the most important person in this movement to restore “We the People.” Just think how different the DNC is in just two short years from the Terry McAuliffe (now Hillary’s manager) nightmare.
DrDick @ 161
Well, if you’re gonna get rough, then…
;>)
Texas Betsy @ 170
Yeah, I saw that earlier. I reapeat my earlier statement: The system is broken beyond repair.
Condi has refused to appear before Henry Waxman, but is flaunting herself all over the Sunday Talks tomorrow. The only show she isn’t on is Meet the Press.
Henry Waxman is not going to be too happy when he sees this.
Texas Betsy @
153
I was heart broken when he announced he wouldn’t run. I was at a speech he gave last September. There were a few minutes of Q & A after. I really didn’t have a question, I just asked him to please run. Does anyone know who is in line to chair the Judiciary after Leahy? Is it Schumer or Feingold?
OT, sorry. I have to poike Tbogg again cuz he did the Case of You thing to me.
here ya go: The Not So Bright Side of the Moon. suck it.
Why do I taunt him here instead of on his own site? 2 fukking guesses!!!11@@@#
darkblack @ 173
Tit for tat then.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqAuuIDU2sw
LJ/Aquaria @ 162
The man learned a LOT from the 2000 race, and his two terms as VP.
First, the DLC screwed him, just as they did Howard Dean.
Second, being conservative like the rest of the DLC did not further the things he believed in and about which he felt most passionately.
Third, consultants f*cked him, too; they encouraged him to be a stuffed shirt rather than being himself. He watched them screw with Dean, too, on the sidelines as pundits who badmouthed a passionate man who wore his heart on his sleeve.
I believe that people are capable of changing, if they truly learn from the past, if they can reorient themselves to follow their passion instead of others expectations. This requires a person to be authentic, truly engaged in life; of the candidates we have, who is authentic? Who is not? It’s the shortage of the authentic that encourages us to seek it in others who have discovered or rediscovered it…
While they duke it out, I’m going to continue to stay focused on the Senate races. We absolutely must win a veto-proof majority in the Senate, no matter who wins the Presidency, and we must win it with people who really understand and believe in the grassroots and the power of the people.
Rayne @ 154
Amen, sister!
Until corporate finance and American society reward for things other than quarterly share prices, we’ll continue to be in a mess.
But to get bamboozeled into gutting NN so that telecom/phone monopolies can ‘repay their investments’ would be funny if it weren’t so pathetic.
jinny @ 175
What happened to her being too busy overseas to possibly take time away???
LJ/Aquaria @ 166
That’s why I decided on my “name”.
I just realized … as a tribute to Leadbelly … Nirvana’s performance is on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM1ZVC2Lkjc
Y’all are the best. My Inca sarcophagus beckons. Thanks for tolerating my rather serious post on a Saturday night, when I would be better advised to offer lighter fare.
Pachacutec @ 163
You’re not a geek. That song runs through my melon head just about any time I think of the Constitution. I don’t think I’ve actually heard it played since I was in jr. high, but I still remember everything about it.
On a side note, found the Schoolhouse Rock, “I’m Just a Bill” video. These little films really explain basic Civics very well, and in a way that sticks in your head.
Of course, my very favorite Schoolhouse rock scene is in the Declaration of Independence video when the guy’s changing a pretty girl as the singer mentions the pursuit of happiness.
Pachacutec @ 184
Night Pach and thanks for the great post. Really thoughtful and an important issue which has generated lots of good discussion.
Loo Hoo @ 121
I had no idea there was any film footage of Leadbelly. Thanks!
It can happen here.
The Guardian
jinny @ 178
Bet you she gets the same letter Waxman’s sent out recently to another hearing-avoidant personality — “You say you are too busy to meet with the Committee, but you have time to appear on television?”
Girls? What are these girls of which you speak?
Ok, I really need to shut up and go to bed.
jinny @ 178
Maybe he could schedule her appearance for a Sunday. Put all the chairs in a circle around a big table, get some mugs with cute logos, y’know, make her think it’s just another talk show, then…spring the trap. (My guess is her first clue will be when there’s no commercial break.)
Rayne @ 182
Man, he sure gets screwed alot.
Texas Betsy @
184
Sunday Breakfast Menu, April 29
http://tinyurl.com/yvvvjr
LJ/Aquaria @
188
If they’re pretty, why would you want to change them?
bonkers @ 195
He has been and he was, way back in the beginning…if I’d had my druthers, I’d have been voting for Gore for POTUS instead of Clinton. All that buzz about Clinton and womanizing didn’t sit well with me in the early 90’s, but that’s how the primaries turned out. And the rest is history.
Rayne @ 156
They’ve decided there are too many views on what is ‘value’ or how long is the ‘long term’ and instead reduced their motto to ‘value’ is ‘more’ and ‘term’ is ‘now’ and let the money holder decide what to do with their wealth. It’s a perfectly rational simplification which eliminates controversy and confusion for CEOs. It’s also amazingly effective and therefore admirable insofar as creating product and wealth are concerned.
What I’m getting at is that the individual desire should be, in my opinion, left free to choose what to do, so long as that does not impinge too much on others. Now, just where the line is between ‘too much’ and ‘too much’ is always debatable. Where we’re at now is a debate between the ‘haves’ and the ‘have mores’, so it’s not a debate you or I are invited to or can win. Therein is the rub.
How can all of America effect the system to keep it in good working order if most of us are simply shut out?
The inmates are running the asylum.
The thieves own the banks.
What incentive do the powerful have for limiting their own powers?
Incidentally, with respect to politicians, I’m not looking for a Liberal or Conservative Dem. I’m not looking for someone to trash the Republicans (only the Bush admin). I’m looking for a leader who can sort out all this mess and set it right. That requires we know what we consider ‘aright’ and who we consider best at the politicking to get it done. Those decisions aren’t easy to make.
Take for example Nancy Pelosi. She’s seen as quite Liberal, but in her Speaker position she’s actually very accomodating to all views and politicks to get a consensus which probably isn’t to her own taste all the time. I don’t know whether she (as an example) would be good as president in terms of heading toward an ideal I’d like. But, as Speaker she seems very well suited to herding the cats in one general direction.
How about a little real early BB King.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBWcSc3nPow
MayDaze @ 185
I love May Day!
The immigration rallies last year were as close to a Labor Rally we’ve seen in years.
The Revolution will be YouTubed
Rayne @ 180
I understand what you’re saying. I agree people can change, if they have a genuine motivation. I’ve been impressed with the Gore I’ve seen since 2000, far more than I was of him before then.
But I still have my reservations. He has got to make some clear remarks about his stand on abortion–no quibbling, no tap-dancing.
I’m well aware of how he got burned with consultants. I wonder how much he’s learned from that. He’s in trouble if he uses them, and if he doesn’t. These consultant weenies wouldn’t think twice about feeding all kinds of damaging information to a pack of rabid hyenas like MoDo, who will regurgitate it as if she were a regular in Caligula’s vomitorium. This is a real problem for Gore.
DrDick @ 178
You know, we may have had this conversation before
;>)
MayDaze @ 41
Economics is not a natural science – rather, it is a bunch of words and mathematical models about how humans allocate stuff.
Dead stuff.
Like all the other humans and critters, I’m alive.
Corporations were never born, but they hide behind a piece of paper that says “limited liability” which allows them to dump poison next to schools and homes.
Milton Friedman was the darling of the upper 0.5% cause he told them greed was the highest possible value – which is what they were already telling one another.
They though he was the Prodigal Son, returned to mammom from academic debauchery.
But economics is all just ideology – fancy word pictures to justify the unspeakable.
Limited liability corporations were never born, and their lobbyists buy their eternal undeath through massive bribes to elected governemnts, candidates, and regulatory bodies.
We living humans and our living world – every day more of us sicken and die in a flesh sacrifice to the undead corporations.
And the undead kill us so they may accumulate abstract zeros in their ghastly reckless reckoning of profit.
Corporate capitalism commits mass murder every quarter.
Patrick 4/4 @ 195
Argh. Typo. It’s supposed to be chasing. Fingers got ahead of me there.
Preview is my friend. Preview is my friend.
Pachacutec @ 165
You might enjoy this too.
http://www.law.umkc.edu/facult…..union.html
I think Gouvenour Morris would be happy with the way our
MonarchPresident has been protecting the aristocracy.Lou Costello @ 201
MayDaze @ 185
LJ/Aquaria @ 166
That’s why I decided on my “name”.
I love May Day!
The immigration rallies last year were as close to a Labor Rally we’ve seen in years.
The Revolution will be YouTubed
——-
Immigration rallies today in Houston.
DrDick @ 200
See, now THAT’S what I’m tawkin’ about.
We saw him at Wolftrap a couple of years ago. Dr. John opened. Great show.
ifthethunderdontgetya @
33
My cat Squeaky died at about the same age in 2002(?), after living with me (and previously, my ex) ever since he was a kitten. He was the best pet I’ve ever had, and one of the best companions. When he died, I used the burial service out of our Book of Common Prayer. I still miss him. Unfortunately, I have an allergy to cat dander, so for my health it would not be good to adopt another cat . I had almost constant bronchitis as long as I had a cat.
Bob in HI
AZ Matt @ 191
You had any doubt?
Rayne @ 156
I’ve always wondered why we even need a stock market. People send money to faceless organizations in hopes of getting more money sent back, kind of like Las Vegas.
Why can’t a business rise and fall based on their revenues and/or loans? If your service or product shows an increasing demand, you can hire more people or buy equipment with your increased revenue.
MayDaze @ 183
Cool threads. :)
DrDick @ 169
I feel this strange urge to make a documentary…
Pachacutec @ 205
I got to see him again a couple of years ago when he actually came here to Missoula with a full on show: Shemekia Copeland (whom I love) Elvin Bishop, and the King. ROCKED OUT totally for four hours in an outdoor gig with the northern Rockies all around.
DrDick @ 210
You have got to stop extolling the virtues of MT. I’ve been wanting to go up there for ages. ;)
Wow, great post! And such an important topic.
You know, I live in a country were we manage to do just fine with regulated capitalism. So, economic growth and social responsability can co-exist, dont let the neocons tell you otherwise. In fact, our economy is doing great because of these regulations, not in spite of them.
DefJef @20:
“Capitalists… corporatists want inexpensive labor… to do that will create high unemployment or simply move their operations to low wage areas and driving the price of labor down to increase their profits. They want no taxes either… only profits… un earned income or value added from the labor or the workers.”
This may be true, but you can make capitalists realize there are money to be made within a well-regulated society. In fact, they can make more money that way. Like Pach said in the post: “There’s an incredible amount of leverage and profit in finding out what people do best and helping them grow.”
Most companies will not see the light on their own however. Like cattle, they have to be led to water in order to drink it. But when you regulate capitalism and force companies to be socially responsible – they will see that the things that are good for society are good for the companies, too.
Happy, healthy employees are more productive, and sharing the costs of a social safety net with other companies is less expensive than doing it all on your own.
MarkH @
199
I’m telling you from the other side of the fence, the ‘have more’ side of the fence, that the motivation to favor reasonable decency and distributive justice comes from two directions.
The ‘have less’ need to insist on it as part of our social contract.
The ‘have mores’ need to realize that reasonable decency and distributive justice are insurance policies; they are investments that pay dividends of their own.
A civil society in which the least able are provided a safety net, in which regulation and enforcement provide stability, assure ‘have mores’ that they will continue to keep what they have. A stable socio-economic environment provides the best opportunities for wealth to grow managebly, avoiding wealth-reducing volatility.
Think about France and what economic instability did to the wealthiest persons in their society when disparity between the lowest rungs of society and the uppermost echelon got too far out of whack; think about other societies over history that have also erupted into chaos for similar reasons. Socialism of and by itself is not an answer, but neither is pure capitalism; it is realistic to think that a mixed economy is best for protecting the entire spectrum of society and economy, providing encouragement to entrepreneurship while protecting those who cannot be entrepreneurial.
kirk murphy @ 204
I was looking for a quote from (IIRC) James Galbraith to the effect that “economics is simply a justification for some people to have a lot more than the rest” and found this:
John Kenneth Galbraith once said: “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.”
bonkers @ 211
Just think of it as a high stakes poker game or Vegas with Real Money.
They say it allows startups to bring in much more capital to get going. Maybe, but the resale of stocks is what really makes the market jump. And that, is largely the Rich slowly shearing the sheeple.
MarkH @ 214
Yep. The world’s largest legalized crap shoot and the house (the rich) always wins.
Pach – thanks for the link to CSRwire which is the company I ran (and mostly built) before my Chicago move … it’s changed a bit with the new owners but remains interesting. A superb source of info is VALUE – http://www.valuenewsnetwork.com/
There are a lot of people shifting in the corporate world – and new leaders coming along:
http://www.netimpact.org/
Since this is the world I spend my non-FDL hours on, it’s nice to see the movement recognized.
Just a reminder folks, but names of games of chance will get your comment caught in the spam filters. Just like the names of prescriptions drugs will :)
Darkblack -
Two can play the AC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfggj6fNz4s
MarkH @ 217
Exactly. There are many ways for startups to start (loans, saving, private investors). Seems like you should have to prove viability before getting too big anyway, you know develop a track record first.
It’s always seemd like glorified Vegas. The Rich shearing the sheeple….that pretty much sums it up!
Petrocelli @
55
When George Bush talks so fervently about “Freedom,” I bet what he has in mind is regulation-free capitalism, where its the capitalists who are free. And maybe regulation-free Republicans, who can play politics within the White House without bothering with nuisances like the Hatch Act.
Bob in HI
Suzanne @ 221
Yes, ma’am. I will try to behave myself, though I have never been real good at that.
bonkers @ 211
I can understand your concern, but buying and selling equity positions in a venture is method for obtaining capital needed for expansion, at rates cheaper than bank loans, while distributing entrepreneurial risks across more than the banking industry.
I think it would be better if there were a broader understanding and participation in the stockmarket, if anything (although I pointedly part from exposing Social Security to the stock market in any way, let’s draw that line there firmly). It was only a couple hundred years ago that people were much more immediately involved in business daily; perhaps it’s with this widening separation between immediacy of ownership and business operations that the investment class could ignore the people that worked for them, ignore the needs of their workers’ families, block out the humanity of real work. Once buying a piece of business could become such an abstraction instead of putting money into another man’s hands directly, business could be dehumanized.
edit: holy toad, is it that late? I’m off to bed, FirePups. Brief me on the Sunday Morning Debacle, uh, talk shows in a few hours.
Rayne @ 223
Those of us with our hearts in the right place don’t ignore such things.
It’s also important for folks to realize that they can help make a better business world through their own financial management – bank at a bank that invests in communities (ShoreBank is a great example but there are several around the country) and if you have any kind of investment (401K, etc) have you made sure it is in a socially responsible investment fund? If you hold stock, do you track the proxy resolutions on your stocks and vote for sustainable business practices?
Check SIF http://www.socialinvest.org/ and SocialFunds – http://www.socialfunds.com.
In particular, download SocialFunds guide – it’s a free PDF, written by good friends of mine and a great start on these issues:
http://www.socialfunds.com/kit-home
Let’s get a little Muddy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qmeIkfcX30
Texas Betsy @ 207
Quite a ‘gang’ of commenters you have there.
Siun @ 225
Thanks for the info.
kirk murphy @ 204
Sounds about right. In the sense that economics is a science it’s that it observes how people behave in commerce and they notice a lot of profit is made. But, they don’t think to call it ‘theft’.
When an industry is doing well the companies in it all benefit from an infusion of capital when their stock increases in value. The problem is that these corporations distribute an amazingly large portion of those new revenues into the hands of a very few individuals who don’t say a word about how the industry is hurt by their personal benefit.
Think how fast the computer software industry might’ve grown had not Bill Gates individually hogged some $50 billion? It’s true in all the industries where the top people make a much larger income than the other employees. Why shouldn’t the entire industry be screaming about how it needs that capital to grow and reinvest?
The theft is quiet and in a growing economy it’s hardly noticed. And in industries where there is some kind of near monopoly it’s hardly noticed at all.
You don’t know why we read you, Pach?
Just re-read the wonderful moral essay above.
You sing like an angel
OT..but here is a link to Mike Gravel’s answers at the “debate”; too bad he is not ten years younger.
http://www.pistolwimp.com/media/61099
I got this link from a single mother, working a low pay job in the South. Maybe there is hope yet.
Another of my favorite JLH songs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOyj4ciJk34
Any time Texas Betsy … there are a lot of good resources and everyone can play!
For example, if you are a teacher, you have a pension fund – ask the fund how your money is invested … and what standards are used to screen those investments.
DrDick @ 219
Now you done it, doggone it
;>)
Time to get out of the lake and dry off for the night. Fun spending time with almost all of you this evening. :)
darkblack @ 236
Oh, yeah. Love that one!
Texas Betsy @ 237
G’night Aunt Betsy, hope you sleep long and well.
Betsy, before you go to bed, you’ve got mail :)
Anybody been watching Cube News1 over at YouTube. Funny stuff. :)
From the My Nuts are Your Nuts edition, a rant against bosses who eat all the stuff from an employees desk:
“Bosses: Just because we work for you doesn’t mean we have to feed you too!”
Now, let’s Diddle around a bit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4QSCLccu08
MarkH @ 231
Or outright stolen other people’s work and claimed it as his own. One of the guys at Digital found not only his code inside MS-DOS, but even his name from signing off on the programming!
And how about the Texas Cannonball?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16AnGcB7MHA
Suzanne @ 238
And now you do. :)
“GORE: It’s nice when someone says that they think that about me and I do appreciate that. But I do not have any plans or intentions or expectations of it. I’ve fallen out of love with politics. (laughs) I’m not hungering to ever be a candidate again and really do not anticipate any circumstances under which I would be. But again, I’m involved in a different kind of campaign. It’s an effort to try to persuade people about why and how, we must rise to the challenge, the most serious challenge our civilization has ever faced. And that’s the focus of my efforts.”
http://tinyurl.com/3yppwm
Obviously, he’s in love with Global Warming and the whole world is his oyster and everyone loves him for doing what he’s doing. Why would he even want to be President, when whoever, takes on the job hasa hell of a mess to sort out.
Pachacutec @ 165
I’m listening now to Skee-Lo’s version of “The Tale of Mr. Morton.” I really like that. “Mr. Morton is the subject of my sentence, and what the predicate
says, he does.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdRyukqXYjA
Thanks, Betsy. Have a good night and sleep well.
Exactly what I’m afraid of! Because of Ford’s pardon, nobody learned anything from Watergate. Had Nixon gone to jail, a lot of the stuff we’re seeing now would have never happened.
Now, however, it’ll take truth-and-reconciliation commissions — ones that have the power to put incalcitrants in jail.
DrDick @ 240
My god, that good music was wasted on screaming teenagers
…Really messes with the kid.
;>)
OK, now I’m really going to bed, but I just re-listened to the Leadbelly song above, and the lyrics are so loaded. . . shit.
darkblack @ 250
Damn! I surrender! What an all star round up.
jinny @
247
Granted, but the Presidency is a bully pulpit like no other.
Well just one more to send Pach off to bed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Unj_uU9tbs
I’ve been lurking my way through this thread. Thanks to Pach for a great post, commenters for lively discussion, and darkblack and DrDick for a fantastic soundtrack.
No matter what, the world keeps turning
Goodnight, Pach.
;>)
Who’s got keys around this place? We need a new thread. Getting so tight in here that we’ll soon need lube to move around.
My dialup contribution to tonights musical score (one day soon I’ll have fast internet speed and ya’ll better watch out)
Keys? (innocent look) I don’t see any keys.
DrDick @ 245
Very nice!
How about a big hand for the little lady? She’s 14-15 in this video. Between her and Jonny Lang, I swear they’re putting something in the water in Fargo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjx-lNmgKNM
Suzanne @ 256
‘Them cows won’t pull my plow’
…And that’s Evil.
;>)
darkblack @ 263
Damn! The Wolf and one of his best.
‘Them cows won’t pull my plow’
…And that’s Evil.
Because I walk the line
Well, I cannot think of a better way to end the evening than with a little Howlin’ Wilf, so I think I will toddle off to bed. Besides, that stack of term papers waiting me in the morning is only a little smaller than it was last night.
Suzanne @ 265
‘Now darlin’, may I have a talk with you?’
;>)
My final contribution to the music will be on topic.
That was a good one, db… one of the best in fact :)
G’nite pups – thanks for bringing your muses tonight….
(goes off to sleep with kitties. purr.)
On topic certainly, Suzanne.
And there’s something we can do about it, too.
;>)
darkblack @ 264
You don’t have to call me darlin, darlin
Pachacutec @
112
She used to be a progressive, back around 1992, when she proposed the initial Clinton Health Insurance proposal, but after getting slapped around for that, she changed to what you describe, which is more valid for today. The trouble is, I see her change as motivated by thirst for power more than interest in principle.
Obama’s sense of who he is is still evolving. I think his politics of hope will get him a lot of votes, but like you, I don’t know where his anchor is.
I have been following what he has been saying and doing for the past 3 years, and I have been impressed. I think he is closer to the Netroots than any of the other candidates– except for Obama, who is mining new territory that I scarcely know how to talk about.
I agree with this assessment.
Hillary represents triangulation and pro-corporatism of the Bill Clinton mold reprised.
For all that, my essential focus now is to help people focus on the local grassroots takeover of the Democratic Party so that future pressure on any party standard bearer will push them more and more toward an authentic progressive agenda. In that sense, I am a progressive/liberal, rather than a Democratic, partisan.
Of the candidates named, I trust Edwards the most. Unfortunately, however, his stance on Israel & Palestine leaves a lot to be desired, IIRC.
Bob in HI
Late to the party as usual, but I have a good excuse – I went to see Greg Palast! I got 2 books – one I gave to a lady who didn’t get one, and the other one I’m giving away as a prize for my Katrina fundraiser.
Pach, fantastic post. Thank you.
Kucinich!
LJ/Aquaria @
162
I disagree that Gore has become a political cipher. Gore, the private citizen, has been unchained and can speak his mind. Go back and look at the speeches he’s given since 2000. He’s given lots of speeches, and there’s a website. He’s been right on the money every time– and not just about global warming. I think one of the reasons that he’s reluctant to run again is that he doesn’t want to have to calibrate his words for their vote-value. And he’s been able to avoid unpleasant controversies. If he becomes a candidate, he won’t be free to speak his mind any more.
Bob in HI
Hi everybody!
hey rond – not sure who is lurking but i’m here
Just got in-got called to play a fill-in gig at the last minute. How is everybody?
Hi RonD, my homie – I’m here for a few minutes anyway.
Where did you play at? Anywhere I might know?
Some little club in Zephyrhills. I’d never even heard of the place-but hey! free money, right?
Something’s wrong with my computer-won’t reload the comments. I hope everyone’s well, and I’ll see you when I can get this thing working again. Take care everyone, and SOON.
Seems to be taking comments fine, RonD. At least on this end.
Have you tried clearing your cache?
Ah-thanks for the suggestion.
Normally do every day or two, just forgot about it.
DefJef @
8
No system can work for everyone if the advantaged don’t take it upon themselves to see to it that it does. nobilesse oblige.
no oblige? then forget it. that’s what happened to France in 1789 and Russia in 1917, and to the Soviet Union in the 1980s. The Neocons are starting to find out now. Capitalism has to have some restraints. The more screwed up the environment gets and the more out of control that the world’s population gets the more restraints are necessary.
Joe Klein’s conscience @
254
You’re correct about it being like no other. There’s a “bully” righteously preaching to the world presently. He’s been exactly what non-Americans dislike about the US and has lost friends and influence for the US all over the world.
“There is no form of government but what may be a blessing if well administered, and I believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic government, being incapable of any other.”
-Benjamin Franklin at the Constitutional Convention, 1787
BTW, fahrender, you’re right. Unregulated capitalisim is feudalism, plain and simple.
Just home from a performance of Verdi’s Requiem in Anchorage. The performance was dedicated to the memory of Slava (Mystaslav Rostropovich). Dynamite soloists, over 200 in the choir and orchestra. Such good playing and singing, I cried.
100 bucks.
I didn’t think of the people in control of this country for two whole hours.
Priceless.
So on and so forth. Good nite, everyone, and thanks for the help, Suzanne. BTW, Alicia, if you;re still there, would you post a link to your music site? I’d love to check it out, now that I have the time. The Powers bless you all-
That is wonderful, ET, and you are right, it is priceless.
lolo @
78
notice how, when the Pledge of Allegiance was read it didn’t include the phrase “under God”. that was written in later.
Well, that is it for me tonight, folks. G’nite all.
‘nite, Suzanne. it’s 10:08AM in Dresden …..
Good nite Suzanne.
Suzanne @ 294
Slava and his wife Galina Vishnevskaya, who is doing fine, have had incredibly rich lives as artists and as artists who protested authoritarian government. In the USSR. They both helped and even hid Solzhenitzyn and Sakharov from sleazy apparatchiks who were the prototypes, save the Soviets’ atheism, for the Regent U functionaries installed here over the past six years.
Vishnevskaya’s autobiograpy, Galina, is one of the best artist autobiographies out there. During WWII, she served on the front lines occasionally, sometimes having to fight off horny commisars as valiently as the Red Army fought the Nazis.
Suzanne @
296
You have mail -
Sweet dreams.
Rayne @ 156
You start by not buying or own shares. You also have to get the notion of welath aggregation and unearned income out your head. Add to that the notion of passing inheritence to future generations who become lay abouts.
People need a decent wage, reasonable compensation for their skills and a pension to see them through when they can or no longer work. Of course housing, education and health care.
Sounds too boring because all the consumerism seems to be impossible without wealth creation… but it is consumerism which has and will continue to spoil the environment.
Sarah @ 215
That is the socially conscious euro model of regulated capitialism… It’s a non starter in the USA… whose corporations are not trannsnational and seek the environemt where they can extract the most profit. These corporations do not accept the notion that they can be more profitable with any regulation.
regulations = less profit
Why does capitalism encourage entrepreneualism?
If you look at the motivation of the most creative people in human history they were the artists and their motivation was creating something which can be used, enjoued and appreciated by others. Now artists/creators want to cash out.. corrupted by capitalism of course…
But you do not nead capitalism and the bait of wealth and the ability to conspicuously consume to foster “development”.
I fact much of development and entrepreneurialsim results in very destructive “developemnts” such as nuclear weapons and most military technology.. even the development of the automobile which consumes oil and is a major polluter and energy drain in it’s mere manufacture.
Most entrepreneurs are creating useless consumer products whose sole purpose is to make them wealthy. Sad this is that it does.
We are addicted to that which is destroying us.
I’m not for nobilesse oblige…
You think that the lay about inherited wealth can possibly not have a sense of entitlement and what would make them give a rat’s ass about those who don’t have it from birth?
Wealth should not be passed along. Everyone has to be on a level playing field… Then you don’t neet Nobilesse Oblige… everyone has to make their own way.
How bout that?
dedefJef @ 302
A non-starter you say… How about starting this idea FOR them? European companies didnt wake up one day and say “Well, today I think well start caring about the people we employ.” Workers started organizing to get bargaining power, and eventually became a political force to be reckoned with. Thats why we have regulated capitalism.
But there are probably other cultural issues that makes the euro model harder to implement in the US. Very interesting topic…, thanks for responding to my comment!
Think Progress has a short note on Iraq having far worse consequences than Vietnam. I agree and think it worth a discussion here. Vietnam was and remains a strategic by-water. Cuba is less of a by-water, and we have had little to do with it for forty years.
Iraq, however, lies at the heart of the world’s most important extraction industry. The global economy is oil-based; oil’s availability and price affect virtually every other commodity and service. Thanks to Mr. Bush, oil prices have skyrocketed and deliveries are subject to much greater risk, just as we have begun to compete with China for more and more of it.
Mr. Bush has also made Iraq the heart of a now ever more violent cultural divide between East and West, developed and developing, “Christian” and non-Christian. China – with whom we will compete most this century – is virtually untouched by our stupidity in Iraq and will ultimately gain much from it, as will Russia and much of the EU.
Mr. Bush’s debacle in Iraq may signal the end of the US dominance that Mr. Bush inherited, and which he dreamed of making permanent. In less than eight years, he has destroyed our credibility, and eroded our ability to be a force for progress, cooperation and non-violent change. Iraq is Mr. Bush’s Suez. His politics of division have done similar damage at home.
George Bush has vastly increased the number and fervor of our enemies and those with whom we simply compete for global resources. He is a calamity of biblical proportions.
Sara,
The USA is a very anti labor environment.
If people simply went out to VOTE and voted their won economic interests we would have no republican in power because their economic constituency is the wealthy.
The repukes have aligned themselves with social “reactionaries” who care more about their “moral” issues.. like prayer in school and abortion to get their votes.
It’s very cynical, yet it keeps big business with it’s boot firmly in the neck of working people.
Union is a dirty work in america.
Of course “regulated” anything can work because the regulations are what makes the system perform for the greater good… even a regulated monarchy… or a so called benovolent dictator.
USA capitalism is anti regulation… has always been and when it is regulated they scream “SOCIALISM”. And that is more or less the Euro model.
USA capitalism is about one thing and one thing only … wealth creation and protection of the capitalist class. Even so called “entrepreneurs” are typically exploited for their innovation… because corporations demand ownership of intellectual property…ie ideas and innovation of their workers.
Those who innovate must do it outside a corporation… form their own wealth creation machine and become just another exploitive operation.
Apple was very innovative and produces offshore in low wage un regulated environments to increase profits.
Shares are hardly used to generate capital for growth of a business. They are traded like stamps and other collectibles and entitle holders to shares of the wealth… value added that the workers create…
As long as their are shareholders extracting wealth from workers… you have an inherently unfair system which won’t serve the needs of the people… except the capitalist class.
defJef @ 303
the bottom line is: humanity will end up destroying the earth or itself. we should make every effort to avoid this fate but it probably will, in the end, happen.
as long as there is a human population there will be a nobility, aristocracy, elite, nomenclatura, what you will …., therefore a sense of oblige is the best hope we can generate. hierarchies are an inevitable aspect of societies. as long as social, political or national populations remain of a certain size they have the possibility of upholding some sort of altruism. the larger they get the more impersonal and ruthless they become. this is not to say that a smaller group is necessarily of a higher moral order but a larger group will probably be less moral/altruistic.
any economic/political/social system requires that the people subjected to it be skeptical and critical.
The Iraq thing was about control of oil and since we are addicted to it… the highe prices is wonderful for shareholders in oil companies. It’s hardly a price driven by supply and demand… we are addicted to it and will pay the price so the Iraqi adventure only ramped up the price to the consumers. No biggie for the oil industry… that is as long as they get the last bits under the ground.
Whether we find other sources of cheap enough energy to drive our economy or any economy is the $64K question. The optimists think there is a solution to be found… but the numbers aren’t there.
We need fossil fuels for aviation, shipping, plastics, fertilizers, pharmaceuticals and so forth. You are not going to fly around on solar power stored in batteries.
Peak oil will see the beginning of the end of the our civilization as we know it… unless science pulls a rabbet out of the hat and that is not very likely. Our nation has cheap oil in its veins and it won’t run un nukes or solar or wind.. only SOME of can.
And don’t forget about the fouling of the earth from all the fossil fuels to be combusted in the next 20 years as we finish the bottom of the glass of oil. We will consume as much in the next 20 yrs as we have in the first 120 of oil.
We are addicted to a wasteful consumerist lifestyle… that is… except for the billions of people who live a life just trying to survive.
The bling age is coming to an end..
I agree with the observation that the EU acknowledges employee interests far more than here. They are simply considered more valid. That they are enshrined in the law and routine management decisions is a by-product of labor’s successes in competing for resources, not its cause.
Here, employers since at least the Gilded Age have waged and won campaigns against labor so resoundingly that the employee’s voice is unheard of in schools, textbooks, and neighborhoods, let alone board rooms.
“Grapes of Wrath” are fruit, a biblical quote, or a book on a summer reading list, not a way of life. “Ludlow” is a town in Vermont, not a place in Colorado where Rockefeller machine-gunned the families of striking miners. “Homestead” is a tax exemption, not one of the most brutal strikes in the history of the Pennsylvania steel industry. “Mother Jones” is a magazine, not an Irish immigrant who spent her life working for her neighbors’ right to organize and earn a decent wage.
In Europe, historians with the perspectives of Howard Zinn are commonplace. Here, they are approached like a toxic spill. That’s an artifact of successful campaigns. It is as if the Roman Catholic Church had beaten back Henry VIII, Luther and the Reformation. From the perspective of employees in America, there are no Protestants; we are all staunch Catholics who think other views are heretical.
Mornin’ all!
Mornin’, Twolfster.
Good morning, twolf, retirin’ in 4.5 :)
Students heckle Gonzales at Harvard
Hope you’re right, Eg.
Hi retirin’ and egregious. Coffee’s on so it won’t be too long until I am awake.
retirin’ in five @ 315
Of course I’m right, it is a good morning!
twolf1 @ 316
And we’ll be able to tell the difference how?
Good morning, pups. It’s Brooks, Kristof and Rich in the NYT today. Brooks says the Grim Old Party (his term) acts like it’s marching quietly to its doom (if only). Kristof tells of a missed chance of peace with Iran, missed because the Current Occupant doesn’t do diplomacy. Rich tears into the White House correspondents’ dinner.
http://mgpaquin.wordpress.com/
Coffee and tea are ready, along with the omelette of your choice. It’s back to work for me, but y’all enjoy your Sunday.
There is little chance captialist will reform or let themselves be regulated by we the people. Never gonna happen despite Bernie Saunders and Thom Hartman.
We will be saved from the evil and greed of capitalists when it consumes itself and the house of cards collapses.. and investors move from one bubble to the next in a desparate attempt to keep their ponzi scheme going and not be the last jerk with money invested which evaoporates into thin air.
The problem is… after the fall we will have a planet with 7 or 8 billion hungry people and lots of them with no heat in the winter.. so they will burn any and everything to stay alive…
Talk about pollution… you ain’t seen nothing yet when we start burning down the world to keep out the cold.
Btw twolf, thanks for all the articles you put up every morning.
I don’t know how you can find so many interesting items for us, but keep up the good work!
*ahem*
This is why there is a problem with the expression; “we’re consenting adults, individuals exercising our rights, we’re not ‘hurting anyone”, is a problem. If ‘rugged individualism’, divorced from community effect is a problem in business, why isn’t it a problem in something vital to human society and culture, like sexuality ?
Just a thought, maybe there are other troubling issues of ‘rugged individualism’ outside the sphere of corporate behavior.
Brilliant post. The clearest thinking, and the clearest writing, I’ve yet seen on a fundamental issue. Kudos to Pachacutec.
Allow me to recommend one of the fundamental writers on the topic, John Ruskin. He was a Victorian art & social critic who tried to reconcile commerve with morality (in his case, specifically Christianity). It ended up (perhaps) driving him crazy, but he wrote some wonderful things on the way.
Morning gang — talking head thread, up and running.
defJef @
320
It appears that other industrialized nations have done a much better job of harnessing individual greed to the collective good. In fact, prior to Reagan, so did the U.S. Reagan ran on a platform that everything would be wonderful if we’d simply “Unleash the Miracle of Free Enterprise,” and the rest is history. The nation made a sharp right turn from which it will take a long time to recover.
If Jack Welch can successfully attack NBC news through influence, key firings, and signing the paychecks, we must go after Jack Welch.
If Jack Welch can manipulate an election by demanding that the election be called for Republicans, we must go after Jack Welch.
Privatization of the news industry is another by-product of this administration.
Privatizing what, in the public interest, should remain public, is the story of this administration. This administration was bought and paid for by the very worst of big business.
We must find a way to stop people from selling a war, Walter Reed, public education, the ability to retire when we need to, the quality of our foods, medical care and the public airwaves.
They had no RIGHT to sell what was ours.
This discussion reminds me about how we too often accept the US constitution as the ultimate constitution and don’t really consider it a flawed plan for society despite it’s many good features. Like regulation to capitialism we apply amendments to the constitution.
Why don’t we consider a new document which fits the conditions of today. Brilliant as it is it was writen more than 2 centuries ago and many things have changed.
Isn’t that the same thing with capitalism? It’s an old paradigm which has worn out its usefullness to all but the very few.
Scrap it and let’s go for something new…
Sara in Stockholm @
215
I don’t know that this is new, but it is practical. We must speak to power, and the USA hasn’t figured out who that has become.
Siun @
228
This is the way to the future.
I think one of the big problems understanding our current reality is a misunderstanding of personal and group motivations.
In the day to day world of the poor and middle class, greed is not an admired trait, open display of greedy behaviour will have a negative impact on a persons social standing (if you have very little money, most of your earning/borrowing/spending will occur “in public” more or less)the farther down the economic scale you go the more likely it is that greedy behavior will result in a person having their asses kicked.
Let’s look at the other end of the spectrum, rich peoples financial behaviour is mostly obscure and will involve almost no real time social scrutiny. When it comes to collective as opposed to individual behavior this problem is magnified.
My point is that the poor and middle class cannot really believe that anyone would try to take “everything” off the table for themselves, since nobody they know would ever try such a thing. Well we are all wrong, there is a class of people who want it all and see no reason to take anyone elses welfare into their calculations, they are now in control of our country and it looks as if they intend to trade collective well being for personal gain until its obviously tragic end. That’s why it’s so hard to fight these guys, their behaviour is unthinkable, so we as a “people” won’t even believe it’s happening until it’s done.
I hope I’m wrong, I hope our democracy is still “self correcting”.
defJef @
301
Sorry, we’ll have to agree to disagree. Millions of people have died over centuries under the system you describe wherein people simply pull themselves up by the bootstraps and take care of themselves. We are no longer an agricultural society, nor even a manufacturing society. I continue to believe that my giving capital in exchange for ownership, to an entrepreneurial enterprise that is more effective than I am at using the money, is an important vehicle for growth.
Investment does not have to be a dirty word; look at what Grameen Bank has done. But Grameen has also relied on the investments of people who had “extra” capital to give, in order to empower microlending.
What is quite toxic and needs urgently to be changed in this country is the concept that corporations have the same or greater rights than people. In a democracy, VOTERS should have the ultimate in rights, not a legal construct that buys greater access and greater representation than the people have as citizens.
The other toxic notion is that money equals speech — this is a perversion that undermines our entire political system. As long as money equates to speech, those with more have more rights than those that have none.
Both of these toxic notions can be changed by the will of the people, if they were to not only add this to legislation, but to amend the Constitution. It was surely never the intention of the founding fathers to permit such power as money buys in this country, to be aggregated in the hands of so few.
Rayne,
As a parent of a son studying finance at a public university, I am deeply concerned about the quality of the curriculum.
The professors partially addressed my concerns by describing the post-Enron environment relating to business ethics.
I want more progressive ideas presented as well. Thanks so much for your input here.
Rayne @ 328
Rayne, thank you for your comments on this issue. I never before considered that publicly traded corporations protected by limited liability could have any useful role.
I’m still not convinced (shortly after 7 on a Sunday AM, I’m still barely thinking….)
But you’ve given me a lot to think about when I wake up.
Rayne,
Corporations which people hold shares in do manufacture, though certainly not all. We may not be an agrarian society but we cannot live with agriculture, but that too has been turned into a corporate approach which does not benefit those who work the land… even it may those who own the shares and it certainly is not putting better food on the table.
Since the idea of ownership of a share for 99.999% of shareholders is profit or ROI it is unlikely that they will want anything which is “good”… but does not benefit their account.
Some of will not own shares of anything and we are just fine. I don’t need to pass anything along… because I don’t have children. I need to take care of myself and if we had a decent pension system etc… I could retire and life in dignity till I croak. But I will work till I croak instead.. with a clean consciience that I am not explioting a soul for my retirement account.
Sure there are some socially conscious corporations but most have no social conscience or interest in anything else but wealth creation. And this leads to abuses on all sorts of levels… the environment and the workers.
Capitalism is about capital not about creating a just and better society. Just look at the name – capitalism… that says it all.
Fantastic post Pachacutec and so many valid comments as well. Discussions as this are so badly needed to arrive at an opinion that can be shared. All too often, conflicting opinions both contain elements of fact but one is not complete without the other, best example is the capitalism/socialism dicotemy which carries such a historical load of baggage that the basic issues are well buried.
I had the great fortune to take a class in economics that the lecturer produced 20 economic definitions developed through Aristotilian method of examination. Best 3 hours ever taken at university. The discussions here are not far off in arriving at economic fact and are surprisingly free of “political baggage” that usually dimminish communicating ideas. Congratulations and kudos for the effort. Great mind candy this. All the best……..
defJef @ 334
Responding first to your comment regarding your comments on capitalism, I hope you were able to determine from my comments that I am a proponent of a mixed economy. There are times when the power of individuals to provide is exponentially increased when aggregated — thus is the nature of government, of, by and for the people. We cannot by our individual selves create police or military, but we can when aggregated. We cannot as individuals create a network of trustworthy entities that facilitate our individual needs to move money, but we can regulate groups that do so as organizations. I believe that government when acting as an aggregation of our individual desires and authority to achieve what we collectively agree is of import can be far more effective than charity or business. But government is not an end-all, be-all; our collective powers have a limit when they impinge on the rights of the individual while failing to yield greater benefit to the common, collective good. This is why socialism will not work on its own.
Capitalism has the benefit of allowing individuals to pursue that which they believe they are best suited to do (they are not forced to choose), rewarding entrepreneurs who take such risk with profit. Shares of stock in such entrepreneurial ventures are a method by which the risk of entrepreneurship is shared, as are any profits; corporate entities allow going concerns to continue beyond the life of the original entrepreneur to the benefit of those who continue the enterprise. But corporations have limits; they are established to provide goods or services at a profit, thus putting themselves in conflict with any need that is not actively benefit the corporation by recouping costs at a minimum or generating profits at a maximum. Corporations may be much faster at responding to public wants because of smaller bureaucracy and greater financial incentives, but they can be wasteful if the public is fickle or if the market does not encourage the right level of competition.
There has to be a balance between these forces; our democracy has so far through checks and balance been friable and resilient enough to maintain this creative tension in place to the benefit of most. But the lack of an on-going dialogue about the concepts that underpin these forces as well as national priorities and national ethics have undermined this mixed system to a point where it has been gamed and abused by a minority without any ethics and only themselves as a priority. This is when we as a collective must check the minority and reset the forces through legislation, increased oversight and societal dialogue. And it’s well past time to discuss our priorities, discuss what it means to be an American.
I will quibble with your perception of corporations as inherently evil — creating nothing of use to humanity. A corporation is only as evil as the management that runs it, and the laws or lack thereof that regulate it. Being a corporation myself, I object stringently to the notion that merely filing paperwork to organize business efforts under a separate entity makes me inherently evil. I provide what my Fortune 50 customer asks — and over the course of the last 3 years, I’ve had the opportunity to tell them what the public thinks about their products and what is wrong with what they are doing. It is what they do with that information that is evil or not evil. It is not that I do it as a corporation that is inherently evil.
Perhaps because you don’t have children your perception is different; I have 3 children, two of my own and a stepchild, for whom I work to amass capital. I want them to be free from worry to the point where they can concentrate on their studies, but not so free from worry that they feel entitled. I want them to learn that every decision has a repercussion, that making a decision means accepting ALL the repercussions that come with it. That means we buy local produce (to save money, get better quality, and support other small businesses); we often shop at thrift stores (to save money and to recycle while supporting a charitable organization); we talk about and choose green technologies, because choosing food, clothes, energy consumption methodologies means accepting everything that comes with it (drying clothes outside, for example, means 25% reduction in power bill along with fresher smelling clothes and less reliance on petroleum). I want them to be eager to learn and do for their own internal motivations, based on their acquired ethics, and not based on desperation. But maybe that’s what has been very wrong with how we accumulate capital in this country at family level; we don’t talk about this necessary balancing act, don’t talk regularly about ethics at personal, community and national level. And maybe that’s why you have a fundamental mistrust of all things corporate — because you personally have not been involved in creating a business, a corporation, one in which family is involved. Most of this country’s business is really small-mom-and-pop business, not McDonald’s or WalMart; I’d hate to see mom-and-pop lumped in with the hyper-corporations when mom-and-pop have historically been the engine of prosperity in this country.
I had the honor of playing that mighty 12 string may years back, courtesy of his daughter, Tina. So may incredible songs came from that man. At the moment I’m thinking of IT’S A BOURGEOIS TOWN (Washington D.C.)
Rayne @
336
Rayne,
If by any chance you come back to read this, I just want to say that I found your comments a huge breath of fresh air and have excerpted the points that resonated most strongly.
I think the national conversation has been winnowed to a sound-bite, he-said/she-said, shrill, spin-the-wheels cacaphony that has been almost impossible to listen to. Like a high-pitched whine, you just can’t really stand to listen to it because it is so wrapped in moralistic, sophomoric flag-drenched (almost pugilistic) unctiousness. It’s like listening to a buzz-saw, and it urgently needs to be a quieter conversation.
As for all the larger corporations that are so enabled by the federal tax codes, I’d sure like to know the percentage of ownership by US citizens. The ownership isn’t motivated to support democracy or participation, particularly
notwhen they’re NOT Americans. To make matters worse, managers are rewarded for short-term profit-taking, for bumping up stock prices and then playing the markets. Anyone who conducts themselves in a socially responsible fashion is up against tough odds IN THE SHORT TERM (3 – 6 years).Your earlier comment, up above, that ownership doesn’t really understand its employees synchs with my observation of poorly run businesses. Show me a single good small business where the owners don’t know their employees and I will eat my hat. Good businesses care about their employees.
Agree that corporations are not inherently evil; they’re a human abstraction designed to encourage certain behaviors that CAN be socially valuable. They can also be used to shield criminal activity, which is why we need regulations and auditors.
But something dreadful happened back in the 1980s, which is when the American public (including my Boomer generation) failed to distinguish been UTILITIES and entreprenurial endeavors.
The Reagan and Bush41 era recategored many public utlities — most of them energy related – from ‘public goods’ that merited regulation, over to ‘private entities’. Reagan and Bush41 laid the groundwork for the Grand Theft we call Managerial Capitalism.
Recategoizing public utlities into ‘private corporations’ basically placed huge monopoly profits into the hands of private interests. Follow that line straight to the excesses of Enron (classic ‘managerial capitalism’) and you see the damage wrought — socially, politically, and personally. Thus, did the word ‘corporation’ become synomous with amoral depravity.
This conversation (about the linkages between economic activity and socially responsible conduct) needs to take root and get a lot more active. It’s my observation that many people have lost all grasp of what was once called a COMMON good. They can no longer distinguish between ‘collective goods’ and private enterprise. Consequently, they’ve let too much be ‘privatized,’ and are now helpless against large environmental, financial, legal, demographic, and economic forces.
I can also say that it’s been my observation that there is a strong link between moral conduct, socially responsible activity, and business success. It’s more complicated than that, but without #1 and #2, you don’t get #3. Business can be a powerful agent for making life better. But it needs certain kinds of government support and constraints to be able to work its magic.
This is a much-needed conversation.
NA; disregard.
readerOfTeaLeaves @ 338
Definitely, agree entirely that our country no longer embraces the concept of the common good, that it is no longer a part of our ethic.