
It's not news that the 2006 elections were huge, in terms of both meaning and impact. Voters declared themselves sick of Republican war and corruption, and swept them out of the majority in dramatic fashion. The Democrats, while not perfect, have used that mandate to begin pushing back on the war, and to revive Congress's long-dormant oversight responsibilities. But beyond that, my hope is that the past six years, and the next two, will lead to a dramatic change in the way Americans approach elections and politics.
In 2000, just barely enough (or almost enough) voters thought that Al Gore was kind of a nerdy stiff, and that Gee Dubya was a cool dude that they'd like to have a beer with (of course, they wouldn't stick around for the stumbling-around-in-his-underpants-trying-to-pick-a-fight festivities afterward). That 49.99 percent bought every Fibber McEarthtones smear about Gore that the Republicans and the corporate media threw at them. 2004 was more of the same, only worse, with truly shameless, vicious smears and the looming specter of Scary Terrorism that only the manly, decisive Drinking-Buddy-In-Chief could protect us from.
And what was the result? Unless you're one of the have-mores, it's been an unmitigated, omnidirectional disaster. The Republicans and the media were able to keep the extent of the fiasco hidden from the casual observer in 2004, but by 2006 it was visibly seeping out from under the carpet. Now that the Democrats have the keys to the oversight committees, they are peeling the carpet back faster than the Bushies can shovel. Not only are they exposing the corruption and outright criminality of the Bush Administration, but they are exposing all of the Congressional Republicans who blocked oversight as accessories after the fact. And, of course, Iraq continues to be an unwinnable deathtrap which the Republicans want to keep us in forever.
Here's where I'm going with this: The American people are finally getting a good look at what happens when you vote based solely on personality or gossip or party loyalty or smearmongering, and they're not liking it. In 2006, the electorate started to rebel against the Rove campaign strategy, as Republicans even went down in red states and red districts. If we are very lucky, this was the beginning of a sea change, where a majority of voters will finally begin to evaluate candidates on issues and qualifications, and to realize that the Republicans and most of the mainstream media are always wrong – everything they've ever said in support of the war in Iraq was wrong, and virtually every smear they've launched against Democrats and insufficiently loyal conservatives has turned out to be a flat-out lie or a willful distortion (I actually can't think of one that didn't, but sometimes stuff slips my mind).
No more voting for someone just because they seem like a nice guy, or because your family has always voted for Republicans (or Democrats, for that matter). Voters should be asking whether the candidates can do the job, what their vision is, what direction they plan to move the country in.
Obviously, it's too early to say for sure – we as a people are far too easily distracted by shiny objects, and the Drudge-ruled Freak Show will continue throwing them at us like Mardi Gras beads. But the 2006 elections give me hope. Dubya's 30-something (at best) approval ratings give me hope. Nancy Pelosi's strong approval ratings in the face of "Planegate" and "Syriagate" give me hope. Tough media-as-war-propagandists criticism making the leap from the blogosphere to PBS gives me hope.
Which brings me to the second part of this post's title (sparked by an e-mail conversation about the liberal blogosphere): What if there were no liberal blogosphere? Would we still have cause for hope? What would our country and the world look like right now? Would the war still be unpopular? Would we have nuked Iran by now? Would Trent Lott and Denny Hastert still be in charge of Congress? Would Scooter Libby be a free man? Would Patrick Fitzgerald still be employed? Would Lieberman be a Democrat? Would the media report on any pro-Democrat or anti-Republican stories at all?
Please, add your thoughts in the comments – I'm hoping you can help fill in the blanks. Or we could just talk about the NFL draft, and whether there'll be any decent corners or linebackers left for the New York teams at 20 and 25…
Related posts:
- Democrats “Win” 2008 So Republican Can Write Health Care Bill
- Glenn “Instapundit” Reynolds Doubles Down on Powerline’s Fact-Free Climate Change Post
- Brave Conservatives Battle to Rescue Your Children from Obama’s Sinister Cult of Learning
- Me write pretty some day
- Mass Transit-Oriented Smart Growth Melds Environmental, Labor Interests





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zed?
Eli!!
OMG, a first, Eli!!
Hee. Hi, guys.
OT – Jon Stewart on Moyers right now (EDT): http://www.pbs.org/moyers/jour…..ofile.html
Isn’t it ironic that KKKarl said the republicans lost because of corruption, not just the war.
Josh Marshall later: http://www.pbs.org/moyers/jour…..file2.html
Gonzo, according to Jon Stewart: a perjurer, or a low-functioning pinhead.
(sorry for the OT Eli, just watching Moyers here!)
I like funny Jon Stewart better.
LoudounLib @ 7
I don’t see why he can’t be both, just like his boss.
I might ask myself this: Are more, less, or the same % of eligible voters voting now? Than say seven years ago. Whether there’s a correlation between this and electorate hipness, I cannot say.
eCAHNomics @ 9
He’s a genius. Funny or serious.
Eli @ 9
Heh!
Lou Costello @
5
Depends on where ya are Lou. I get it next hour here in San Antone. With PBS ya only get an approximate nationwide broadcast.
Eli, not to worry. We’re not smart enough to read your post anyway.
egregious @ 14
No, seriously, I want to hear what people think. What happened only because of the liberal blogosphere, and what would have happened anyway?
Hey Eli,
I read recently that the “I’d like to have a beer with him” was just a media construct, nothing but MSM b.s. I don’t believe many people voted for Bush because he was “likable” (gag) but because he wasn’t Gore.
Second time around, I have no clue. But I’m still upset that the world had to witness our national shame of ‘04 – after the criminal administration had been exposed they still *won*. And yeah, both elections were stolen or not, whatever. They should have both been *unstealable* landslides.
I believe it was Jonathan Kozol who observed (in his case, with respect to public education), that when a long-standing institution appears to you to have a history of failure, you probably don’t understand what its real mission is.
Bush’s real mission is for the have-mores. And in every conceivable metric, he’s been a success.
“What if there were no liberal blogosphere? “
I give tremendous credit to you guys. Yes, I know I can be a square-peg-in-a-round-hole at times, but my observation is that you folks have made a tremendous impact. I only “heard” of the bloggers a couple of years ago, and I’ve only been a participant for right at a year. I decided to take a look at the bloggers…see what’s there.
My discovery is that there exists a wealth of research, information, and knowledge. And my belief is that everything will only grow more powerful…but my time-line is more along a 10-15 YEAR period. I think much of the status quo as existed in 2001 would still exist without the bloggers. The R team machine would still be humming right along.
Ghostman
P.S.- Mr. Eli, no matter who you draft, my Cowboys will still kick your Giants ass.
I wouldn’t have been clued in about Lieberman without this blog and others. Yes, leftblogistan is making a huge difference, Eli.
My view of dynamic is Gore and Noam Chomsky. This is not an attempt at a joke. I mean what I am saying here.
Jenny from the Blog @ 16
Hiya, Jenny! That wouldn’t surprise me a bit, but I think a lot of people thought that because the media *told* them to.
I sure never saw his appeal, he always looked like an overgrown spoiled rich fratboy to me.
(waives to LoudounLib)
I think the blogs (FDL and TPM in particular) have provided a new measure of accountability both to the pollies and the journos (as they’re called downunder). Someone (Marcy?) said that it was likely Rep Waxman or his staff lurked here, and I suspect a fair number of the MSM do as well. They could do far worse. Perhaps we can inspire the MSM to actually start doing their jobs, although those that butter their bread will keep them from it I fear.
I think you’re right just because we now have proof of what happens when you elect an idiot. We’ve all heard people say that it doesn’t really matter who is elected pres. The feeling has always been that he will surround himself w/ the best and the brightest and the nation will go on as it always has. Then Bush happened and that theory got blown out of the water. So now, maybe, Americans will wake up to their responsibility. Just hope it’s not too late.
Lou Costello @ 12
Agreed. And personally, I’d love to see JS interview Mike Gravel..
Professor Foland @ 17
I’m familiar with this theory, but the fact remains that for the average American, it *has* been a disaster. If it was a consciously planned disaster, that makes it even worse.
All that glitters is not gold
Especially in politics, government and leadership.
Eli asks:
And I answer: We would be in some seriously seriously seriously deep sh*t. The corporate owned media has been completely bought off and co-opted. The few members of the COM who are actually doing real reporting are so few, that they are lost in the noise factory with everyone pointing at the new Shiny Object of the day, whatever or whomever it may be.
The liberal blogosphere has been a GOD send to those of us stuck in red states/fly-over country. It allows us to connect on a daily basis with similar feeling individuals, many of whom reside in our own areas. Oh we could read a Mother Jones or Utne Reader and know intellectually that we had fellow travelors out here. But the blogs allow us to know in our hearts, which is allowing us to breath with a tad less anxiety for the future of the Republic.
(Climbing down off my soapbox now).
dakine01 @ 14
*Note the (EDT). Your timezone may vary. Better? *wink
Eli @ 22
I just outright didn’t like him. I vaguely remember reading an article about him as Texas Governer back in the late 90s. The more i saw of him on the campaign? Just made it more clear to my instincts. ‘DO NOT TRUST” stamped across his forehead. I knew nothing of his history and what i learned just didn’t strike me as something good. It just hit all the wrong notes in me. I held to it and haven’t been proven wrong on that. I pay attention to that little bit of myself, it hasn’t been proven wrong yet.
Welcome, Jonney!
dakine01 @ 27
And I answer: We would be in some seriously seriously seriously deep sh*t. The corporate owned media has been completely bought off and co-opted. The few members of the COM who are actually doing real reporting are so few, that they are lost in the noise factory with everyone pointing at the new Shiny Object of the day, whatever or whomever it may be.
This is what scares me the most – that the Republicans and their tame media would have an absolutely free hand to present nothing but right-wing narratives almost completely unopposed.
Stewart is his usual self. He’s making sense.
Rufus T. Firefly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4-OEche3Qk
“These Are The Laws Of My Administration”
I wanted this:
http://www.searchlores.org/contract.html
But that doens’t seem to be posted googleUTube.
Eli @
22
Gore won election fair and square. Bush stole it shamelessly. Simple as that and anyone who doubts it is naive at best and stupid at worse.
newspaperbrat @ 34
Digby had a really chilling post a few weeks ago about how Rove stole a victory for a judicial candidate who was a few hundred votes behind when the election closed. Deja vu.
solai @ 67
ya, we all worry
this is why we fight so hard for net neutrality, without it we are gone
There’s still time to nuke Iran.
[Mod Note; open snark tag closed]
Mr. Gore, please run.
( waves back at petedownunder – happy Friday! )
And so it goes:
The left blogosphere has done a lot to raise the profile of some issues, to investigate, to fact check, to compare current stands with previous ones. In other words, much of what the corporate media was expected to do and hasn’t done.
By and large, it still is not doing its job. Take this article from the NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04…..ref=slogin
entitled “Bush eases tone on Iraq spending bill”
Of course, Bush is still going to veto the supplemental and he warns Democrats about it, but he has “eased” his tone. What does that mean? That the article’s author Michael Luo got his daily dose of Kool-Aid? We have made an impact but the TradMed is still the TradMed and as articles like this one show there is still much work that remains to be done.
you know when you’re a kid playing in the dirt with water and there’s a dam holding back the water from the hose; but then the water works around your dam and flows faster and more freely, washing away the hindrance?
That’s what the liberal blogosphere feels like to me, like now we’re flowing around the corporate dams that held truth back — deliberately and/or by sloth.
The liberal blogosphere is keeping millions informed in a way that the MSM refuses to do.
But more importantly, to me, it has kept me sane. I was like a lunatic for 4 yrs with no outlet for my rage. Very few people wanted to hear me go on and on about BushCo. And most viewed me as a partisan alarmist. Hubby and kids may be interested but not obsessed. Then I discovered sites like this. So, here I am on a Friday night, still stressed but at least I have company.
LooHoo on the button first. Jeopardy is next!
When I first came here 2 years ago, I convinced that all was lost in America and that BushCo had succeeded.
I don’t need to try to list what has happened (positive things) since then. LeftBlogistan is a success, and only warming up.
Sweet! emptywheel’s on TV on “Off The Record” right now, here in Michigan!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 38
That window’s open for three more days!
[Mod Note; open snark tag closed]
perris @ 36
Hence the “almost enough” and the 49.99%, although his *popular* victory is legally irrelevant.
My point was that the Republicans tried to manufacture scandals to discredit her, and failed miserably to make them stick.
I have serious concerns about election integrity – that was the subject of (I think) my second post at FDL. But I think most of the voting machine and voter suppression issues are at the state and local level. Although the DoJ’s Civil Rights division could block some of the voter suppression laws if they weren’t completely corrupt.
Bush was never popular most voters were too comfortable and lazy to pay attention and were led by the Main Stream Media into supporting Bush. Thankfuly Bush has forced Americans to choose sides by being such a failure. Now that Americans are paying attention to politics this helps us a lot. I disagree that Bush is good for rich people I would rather pay taxes and have a growing Clinton economy where the entire market is growing fast than not pay taxes and have to face real risk of losing money in several sectors of the economy. Example the airline industry, american auto industry. housing construction, real estate, subprime lending. Look at some of the industries Stephanie Pomboy in Barron’s recomended to get into to make a profit Payday Loans companies and Pawnshops if those industries are making a profit then our economy is not doing well.
LoudounLib @
40
It’s already Saturday for Pete. :)
At this point in time, if we did not have access to the internet, we would be done for. Dead or oppressed. But…luck, kharma, technology, or fate or whatever (funny how that happens), I am convinced we will prevail; although many of our fellow family of human beings will have suffered fighting for their personal and others suffering from fighting our way out from under their illusion of power.
Eli @
32
This is what scares me the most – that the Republicans and their tame media would have an absolutely free hand to present nothing but right-wing narratives almost completely unopposed.
Because the left would have no way to gather the information to refute them. NOW, with the blogistan world upon us, we share information, we learn from each other and it allows us to be the worst nightmare come to life for the COM and the power elites and puditocracy. Because we don’t have to sit back and blindly accept all the BS but have readily accessible mechanisms to call B*llSh*t on their a**es. And even with this, it is still an up hill battle to get things out through the noise factories.
I was frustrated myself up until last year when i wandered in here. I’ve been part of the blogosphere, but not part of hte political one for years.
Finding FDL has been something of a relief. I love the fact that word is getting out, and things are making a real difference agianst this whole debacle. I’d still be silently frustrated and voting against the admin every chance i got. But now i know i’m not alone in it. That there are others out there working for the same thing.
Snark tag?
LS @ 51
and what do we do if the internet breaks? contingency plans?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 54
Haven’t heard from her yet tonight.
HA HA HA
It’s being reported at thinkprogress that Tobias resigned because he was involved with that escort service (just for massages)
Meanwhile, he was pushing abstinence only to prevent AIDS. (Denying condoms?)
These effing hypocrites are unbelievable
solai @ 57
I’m screamin’ here! MERCY!
solai @ 56
I’m pretty sure it’s okay if he’s married…
Elliott @ 55
Well, we are already equipped with the sharing of knowledge so far. I would imagine we would have to unify by localities and the Paul Revere method !!!
Eli @ 59
He is.
LS @ 60
One, if by land..
I’m really sorry to bust in and go off-topic, but I’m having an argument with someone who insists the Attorney Purge stuff is nothing but a witch hunt (of course). This person keeps droning on and on…”they serve at the pleasure of the president, they serve at the pleasure of the president” and it’s making me crazy. Christy did a post a while back about this very argument and I was hoping to find it and use the excellent points that she made, but I can’t find it. Does anyone remember the one that I’m thinking of?
Again, sorry for the interruption, but I knew that if there was anyone who could help me, I would probably find them here!
oops, sorry mods oops
solai @ 57
As these losers continue to resign, or be indicted, or testify that they can’t remember, what has become of the old BS that they all do it?
Democrats are just as bad. All politicians are corrupt. It doesn’t matter which party is in control.
Another Rethug meme flushed.
LS @
60
Exactly. We now know that there’s a fair number of folks here in various parts of south/central Texas. We’re like little cells of the underground…
Anybody ever worry that there’s a plot to take down all the liberal blogs?
They own all the other info outlets. And we know that controlling the message is their main concern.
Josh Marshall is doing a great interview with Moyers:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/jour…..file2.html
kristineIA @ 63
If this was only about “serving at the pleasure of the president”, Bush would have replaced them with no explanation needed. It is the cover-up and damage control that is exposing them.
kristineIA @ 63
To me, it’s not just the purge. It’s what the purge revealed.
I think the number of voters who are “in play” for the ‘08 election is probably less than 10%. The majority of the Republican base of White middle and lower economic class voters are getting screwed by Bush et al but they will vote Republican in ‘08 and no evidence or logic will change that. The Right has no shame in their appeal to hate, racism, fear, and fundie religion. The genius of Rove is to appeal to the lizard brain and have people vote against their self interest.
If there is a backlash, it will be in the form of American Populism; based on fear, racism, and fundie religion. All problems are due to Liberals, Brown people, Black people and public education.
kristineIA @ 62
Was it this one? You might also want to browse the US Attorney Firings posts category.
Balrog @
45
Love ya, Balrog! I know exactly what you mean. While my brother’s car is plastered in good bumper stickers, he doesn’t really understand the issues in depth. He just knows something is very, very wrong.
I only have one bumper sticker. The first in my life.
Interestingly, if there was no left blogoshere, we would essentially be screwed! In MSM land, the Shrub Bubble, the steady diet of neocon Koolaid would have decimated the free thinking left! All that would have been left was the Anarchy in the UK crowd!!!
Watching Marshall on Moyers – talking about Lam, Iglesias, Wilson, Domenici, Foggo, et al – this, to me, is what is great about left blogistan. I learned about all this right here at FDL, and most of America probably doesn’t have a clue or any interest.
Steve @ 70
I would have believed that until I saw how well the Democrats did in Republican states and districts.
The Republicans need to know they are being used by these people who are not Republican. The Neocon Straussian theory needs to be laid out in layman’s terms for the public.
I think it’s also important to take a look behind the rhetoric of any incumbent or candidate.
Anyone who’s not in favor of an immediate withdrawal from Iraq, and I mean fucking yesterday, should be considered as being made from the same cloth as Dick Cheney. Blue Dog dems should be purged from the party. Two-faced assholes like Barbara Boxer and Joe Lieberman should be smeared and stomped into the dirt.
For the moment, we need Mao-like purity. If you don’t measure up, we’ll hunt you down like a dog and kick your ass out of office.
The democratic party needs a purge. Anybody, ANYBODY, giving the Clusterfuck criminals a SHRED of cover, should be ground into powder, and rinsed from the party.
I’m looking forward to dogging Boxer like a wild hyena in 2010.
solai @ 57
There has to be plenty of Republic hypocracy regarding abortion as well. It must be exposed as well to stop the charade of their moralistic shoutings.
LS @ 77
there is the best strategy if we are to make a push for impeachment successfull
bush is no republican, cheney is no republican, nor are they concervatives
they have highjacked the party, they are extreme not concervative, and they are radicals
allow the republicans to claim the neo fascists are neither republicans nor concervative
this will be easy to do, they have brought ruin to the party and the real republicans will be happy to exact at least their pound of flesh
We also have to remember that the 2000 and 2004 elections were both extremely questionable. The majority of Americans are with us – not the Neocons. I think it is imperative that the difference between the philosophy of your regular Repub and Neocon be analyzed and exposed.
The view here is that the way to go is two pronged. It’s the political AND the criminal actions that the Dems should push. Go after Rove.
perris @ 79
I think some of them are already trying to do this, to salvage the reputation of conservatism and the Republican Party.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 39
OK – from your keyboard to God’s ears.
At the risk of sounding whacko I’ve remained so indignant that the Supreme Court handed the White House to a drunk brute of no discernible intelligence and his sociopathic running mate and denied We the People’s majority vote that I would champion Gore even if I didn’t truly appreciate him – though God knows I did and do. The Honorable Al Gore is a noble patriot who not only has the depth and sterling moral character to be a great president We the People owe him unconditional support in the happy event he knows we will have his back and share his high moral ground.
His reelection in 2008 would be celebrated throughout the world and may well be our hi-jacked Republic’s last and best opportunity to survive morally and literally.
ReElect President Gore in 2008 and accept no substitute.
Please join with countless fellow citizens and let this great man know we have his back, literally and figurately. It really is as simple as that.
Just 2 things we’ve learned
-Dems investigated 8 times more than repubs
-In wisconsin (2)cases that helped elect repubs have now been dismissed
The implication is that the Justice Dept. was being used to drum up false accusations against Democrats while ignoring Republican crimes. All this to install a permanent Repub. majority.
“Neocon Straussian theory needs to be laid out in layman’s terms”?
A wise man named Niccolo Machiavelli once said, “But men are so simple, and governed so absolutely by their present needs, that he who wishes to deceive will never fail in finding willing dupes.”
As Winston Churchill said, “The first casualty of war is the truth.”
Here are the rules:
Play both sides
Control the key players and their opponents
Get one clear goal and never deviate from it (monomaniacal obsession)
Plan for the future, and then plan even farther…
Constant intelligence gathering gives the edge in every deal
Never let them know your real intentions, obfuscate and mislead – always
IF you want to know who wrote this you will have to click here(it might suprise you):
Guess Who
Oklahoma kiddo @ 82
I think we need to start with an impeachment proceeding of abu torture
that will get all the depravity on the table, his novel “interperatation” of the constitution, presidential and “unitary” principles, his bizarre claim that the president can unilaterally re define treaties previous administrations have brokered, and his unbelievable ignorance and interperatation of our constitution
begin the impeachment process there and watch the neo fascists go nutzo
newspaperbrat @ 83
Exactly.
Hillary sould take a leaf out of Moyers’ book. Moyers says Halberstam got it right. We in the Johnson administration did not (about Vietnam). I like Moyers.
solai @
67
What they don’t want is Net Neutrality. As soon as they can control the pipes, all bets are off.
solai @ 85
With luck, the Bush/Rove legacy will be a permanent, or at least long term, Republic minority.
Balrog @ 65
Ah, but Balrog, nothing like this has ever happened in my memory. Not a den of theives trying to steal the Constitution. Your new baby will be reading about this in his/her history books as a criminal enterprise never seen before in America. We almost lost our country.
Badwater @ 91
At least long enough for the Democrats to fix the damage, and to hopefully put something in place to prevent a repeat. (Not sure how, since the Republicans don’t really care about rules…)
Lou Costello @ 5
Thanks Lou–it’s coming on right now. So glad I didn’t miss it :)
When the next Pres is elected (assuming things go as they are supposed to) the SCLM will react in a predictable way. If a rethug is in, the SCLM will continue in its same way – softball questions, not looking too hard at the Administration’s actions, and following the RNC talking points when not making up their own stories. If a Democrat is elected, the SCLM will suddenly grow a spine and question everything that the President does. There will be NO honeymoon period. The SCLM will continue to use the RNC talking points when not making up their own stories. The progressive blogs is our only real place to find the truthful analysis of the world.
Eli, interesting question. I think one of the major things is that left blogistan provides an alternative to people who were already turning away from newspapers and other media. The righties moved to cable news, and the lefties moved to blogistan. It turns out that blogs also move people to act, unlike the weirdness on cable news. This site is a prime example. Many of us, including me, report that 2006 was the first time we ever gave money outside our own states, signed up to work for candidates, poll-watched, called congresmen, and on and on. Watching tv doesn’t get people out of their chairs, or get them to give money to Vic Wulsin (hint). It was the combination of all those small donors, small steps and small responses to dittoheads that made the difference in the last election.
The inspiration of the blogs to action is the crucial difference to me.
Balrog @ 65
That was Nader’s argument. Bush has demonstrated that Nader was spectacularly wrong, as are you.
Wow, just stumbled to this thread after dropping the Tobias latest on the last one. The details are pretty rich:
Eli @ 83
Exactly, the problem is that the person who goes to their job and then home to the kids to relax, thinks that their security lies in the Republican party, and then they don’t realize at all that the cabal in power are not Republican at all. That is the challenge. The Repubs represent to citizens that are not politically involved, and that have been traumatized by fear and propoganda, a security “blanky”. They want it all to go away, so everything can be what they want it to be…American Idol at this time in history…Leave it to Beaver, was an opiate for the people who wouldn’t recognize the problems of Vietnam – now we have American Idol. Same problem. It was when Laugh-In and programs like that came into being (like the Jon Stewart/Colbert programs now) that things began to change. The music was also “instrumental” in activating conscience. Not, of course, to mention the draft, which was what really tipped it all over the edge in the end. It was a combination of things.
Eli @ 83
we can help show them the way eli, they need a hand and some direction
whenever we have venue, whenever a progressive gets an interview or the chance to appear we should be there to say it
somthing like so;
“this president is not a republican he just plays one on tv
he’s not a concervative either, he’s an extremeist and I can’t understand how real republicans put up being highjacked”
or something more eloquent but equally insightfull
if we start the dialogue and show them the way it might begin a movement
masaccio @ 96
I like it.
I sure wouldn’t mind more of a media presence, though…
solai @ 67
Yes, when FDL is down, it freaks. Think I’ll send my next payment via snail mail. Hoping they’ll keep a database. In a normal America I wouldn’t give it a second thought.
Eli @ 16
Eli, it’s hard to say – like the old theory that the scientist, by his presence, changes the very activity he is trying to observe.
I do think that the blogs made a difference in the elections – possibly a deciding difference. Not sure how to prove or quantify it, except with funding numbers and maybe some of the GOTV activity.
prostratedragon @ 99
I take it we are talking about “no sex” in the Clintonian sense?
Hey Eli –
Yes, They Is . . .
And They Is Phlushing the Screw-Up-In-Cheif down the political sewer . . .
The Good Newz is . . .
Commander Codpiece is taking his Par-TAY with him . . .
The Bad Newz is . . .
He is STILL Commander Codpiece . . . .
MEMO TO THE GOP –
Your Party — or your preznit . . .
you decide . . .
Eli: That 49.99 percent bought every Fibber McEarthtones smear about Gore that the Republicans and the corporate media threw at them.
Are you sure it wasn’t the nasty wet kiss he gave Tipper, or the flaccid showing in the debates, or the fact that he’s not really a Democrat, or…
fwiw, I wouldn’t have made a couple hundred phone calls for Moveon last fall without the inspiration of FDL.
perris @ 100
I’m kinda vindictive, so I wouldn’t really mind seeing the Republicans go down in flames. But seeing them adopt some semblance of sanity and integrity would be good, too.
Sunshine Jim @
86
These guys think they understand Machiavelli they think that they are elite ruler types who have to lie sometimes to the dumb masses. However these guys are the dumb ones because they never admit to or learn from their mistakes. I think Nichole should have written a chapter about rulers who learn and rulers who didn’t learn from their mistakes. We could call it it the Bill and Bush chapter.
Sunshine Jim @ 86
Oklahoma kiddo @ 82
Rover on trial, or even Waxman et al revealing the ‘permanent R majority strategy’ and what that would MEAN…and how it has been done TO US. ALL OF US…
Should do the trick.
Eli @ 94
this is a great point you make Eli
power corrupts, absolute power corrupts ever more
the democrats will be no better if their feet are not held to the fire, sad to say, the republican party or some party must remain viable so there is a push pull
news flash for everyone;
republican policy isn’t always wrong and bad for America
democratic policy isn’t always good and right for America
we should never always be swinging to the left or the right, there should always be the pendulum
perris @ 88
Understood. ;0)
I remember the way Kate O’Beirne gloated over the fact that he didn’t even carry his own state of Tennessee. I hate to agree with ol’ Sixty Grit, but I did have to laugh along with her on that one.
-ck- @ 105
Exactly. I really am amazed that they haven’t thrown him overboard to save their own skins yet. I guess it’s not close enough to the 2008 election – they must have some calculation of how long the electorate’s memory is.
Purely speculation prompted by a market analyst, but still, it would be quite an intriguing suggestion:
Fern @ 105
Just a ‘happy ending’
Riesz Fischer @ 106
Gore was not a great candidate in 2000, but he was *still* clearly a better man, and a better potential president than Dubya.
perris/OK Kiddo…habeas, too. OK?
The thought of no liberal blogistan scares the hell out of me Eli. Anyone want to match my $50.00 donation, in honor of Eli?
Badwater @
98
My post was unclear. My point was that all of the resignations, indictments, and subpoenas are aimed at Republicans. There hasn’t been a Dem in trouble since FreezerCash Jefferson.
perris @ 112
Since January, 2001, Republic policy has been completely wrong and bad for America. It remains to be seen what a new generation of Republics might do. Hopefully, we might find out in a few decades.
Blank Kludge @ 119
ya, missed that one
there are so many American principles abu has tortured it’s easy to miss a few.
Trouble is, Bush has come to represent what Republicanism and the GOP has today become.
perris @ 111
One of the things I’m very interesting to see is how the liberal blogosphere keeps a *Democratic* government honest. The conservative blogosphere has shown that they do not care about anything more than winning, but I don’t think we’re going to be giving the Democrats a free pass.
ccmask @ 120
Done.
Badwater @ 122
that’s what absolute power does, it corupts aboslutely
this will happen to the democrats too, mark my words, their feet must always be held to the fire, there must always be a vialble party to push pull
Oklahoma kiddo @ 124
That was the Republic choice, motivated by the scent of plunder.
LoudounLib @ 126
Thanks. See you over there.
LS
my internet connection just disappeared for a minute there – poof!
..OooOooo.o…..
perris @ 126
The problem is, the Republicans will not be honest about it. For every real Democratic screwup, they’ll invent at least ten more. The liberal blogosphere is going to have to keep them straight.
perris @ 127
It will take a period of absolute power to undo the horrendous damage done during this Republic era.
LoudounLib @ 126
I’ll make it $25
Eli @ 131
and we’re seeing the fruits of y/our labor all ready
It occurs to me with the DoJ resignation, the AID resignation and the MassageMadame customer resignation…anyone have a tally on the turnover Admin wide since 11.7.06? Add in DoD generals etc. I’d bet it’s getting veerryy loooonnngggg…
Eli @ 125
exactly Eli…we cannot see ourselves as democrats, we have to see ourselves as keepers of the great experiment
you know, democracy is NOT an unatural form of government it is the NATURAL form of government for most species…we did not “invent” democracy it evolved however “the beast”, the robber barons will always try to regain their power and control over the masses
this is the real battle, the battle to control ourselves or be controlled
Thank you. That needed to be said. Even a semi permanent majority has a chance of being corrupted, and likely will. What needs to be done is tha the message of ‘don’t EVER do this again’ needs to be put out to both parties. So whoever takes office understands that we won’t fritter away what we’ve got.
Even if (likely When) the Dems take the WH next year? I intend to question them and hold their feet to the fire about returning our rights. It’s going to take years to get anythign even resembling an even keel again. Through many admins.
BTW Eli, I call that picture “The Coup d’etat“. Think about it.
solai @ 133
Way to go, Solai! Wooohoooo
I think it’s important that we don’t spin the numbers in such a way as to convince ourselves that there was a landslide Dem vote this last election. There wasn’t.
We scraped our way into control in congress by the slimmest of margins, by not discussing things like gun control, as well as by talking about things like Iraq.
We still live and work on the edge. It behooves us to remember that as we prepare for the next election.
Perris 88,
Right. Visions of hooded prisoners in compromising positions coupled with the people you support, supported this, might be helpful, but then they come back with; your children would be dead and hung up on cast iron hooks to bake in the sun, if we hadn’t been able to extract the information from them….
How about, your children will be dead and hung up on cast iron hooks to bake in the sun, because the people you are considering voting for have tortured so many people that those people want revenge for destroying their countries and families, and the people who developed those policies are not acting in your interest, don’t care about your jobs or life, and are not representative of the Republican ideals that you think you voted for.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 124
What’s the trouble.. let the sleaze be out there for even the most uninformed citizen to see.
For six years, I’ve wondered about this idea that Bush is someone you’d “want to have a beer with.” The man doesn’t drink; at least, that’s what he says. Maybe folks’d like to have a beer with Bush because he wouldn’t drink it and they’d get two beers.
As for your question, Eli𔄤 to try seriously to answer them would take actual historical analysis, but the off-the-cuff answer to every single one of them has to reflect that things would have gone differently. First, imagine the discourse of, say this blog, as a big network of dots representing each of us, and lines connecting us into conversation threads and subthreads. Then imagine those lines pretty much all cut apart, as i bet relatively few of us know each other apart from having met here.
Also, consider the amount of outside information that gets exposed and exchanged here, partly because it’s available on the web, or the speed with which the recent doc dumps have been sliced, diced, and assembled into lovely little sashimi nuggets because they were placed on the web. (It’s fun to imagine the backpedalling after that first one, eh?)
Lou: Why did Cheney take control of NORAD at that time?
Oh. I use the term counter-Revolutionary to describe the rise of this Id Monster out of Forbidden Planet THING. Although I can see ‘radical’ and ‘extremist’ fitting too.
For all intents and purposes, the Constitution does not exist. And that is confirmed by the bignut himself, “It’s just a damned piece of paper.”
Hiya ! No one is kicking me out tonight!
prostratedragon @ 143
The blogosphere is a very impressive open-source, distributed analytical engine.
Welcome Cassie, we’ll try to behave.
Elliott @ 130
You think that’s bad? The other night, I was blogging here and said something slightly radical I suppose — next thing I know, my computer goes off, and a message says that someone else is logged onto my computer!!!! I shut if off, and unplugged it for a couple of hours. I don’t know what that was.
To this day I find it breathtaking that the the rule of law has been eviscerated so smoothly and easily. The destruction of habeas corpus was swallowed by the traditional media with barely a cough.
Were there no netroots I think, in all soberness, we’d be sliding into fascism with very little effective resistance. The internet makes it possible for us to find each other in spite of media complicity. I marvel at how difficult it must have been to build a resistance movement before its advent.
Hey Cassie! Friday night under the lights.
things come undone @ 110
Excuse me, thingscomeundone. This president has hired a position new to the executive. Director of Lessons Learned. How could you even suggest they don’t learn from their mistakes? This would mean that the good Director is not successful, and perhaps should be replaced.
LS @ 141
here is the fact;
there is MORE information that is ACIONABLE using techniques that are NOT torture
that’s a fact, the information gathered from torture almost always worthless, people will say anything to stop torture
couple that with the FACT that torture RECRUITS our enemies and NO amount of information will stem the tide of new incidents caused by that very torture
it feeds more enemies, this we knew before the programs of torture began
we were SUPPOSED to be “winnning the hearts and minds” of a people that actually thought we were there to liberate them
and then they found out we were actually torturing people
we cannot calculate the damage done to our purpose by initiating programs of torture
it is almost as if the administration WANTED to have the people if Iraq hate us
Jay @ 142
I’m hearing what you’re telling us. ;0)
Great post, Eli!
Without the blogosphere, I don’t think Ned Lamont would have beat Joe in the primary – and that, for me, was the beginning of hope.
Eli @ 115
Goes back to the last thread – electorate memory is pretty short-term.
radiofreewill @ 156
except for what happened to him right after
jane_jericho @ 150
It depends on just *how* totalitarian and lawless the government is. In ye olden tymes, the resistance had to talk face-to-face, with little or no digital or paper trail.
A lot of what we do and who we are is basically public record on the internets.
Of course, we’re not doing anything illegal, although perhaps the definition will change…
Eli @ 115
This is the message —
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE need to make GOP Senators to understand —
The Bush Adminstration is DEATH for the GOP –
A DISASTER for America –
and TOXIC for the World –
The American People understand this —
And the damage that will be done to the GOP will be immense.
The longer the GOP waits to throw Bush/Cheney/Rove overboard, the worse the damage will be.
This is the message LHP suggested in her laying the groundwork post.
Convince GOP Senators that the GOP is better off with an accidental SanFran Liberal preznit going into the next election, than the WORST PRESIDENT EVER —
When GOP Senators understand this — we may have a chance to save our Country, and save the World.
Did y’all see this?
hey guys, I’m gonna play a game of yahoo chess and then off to bed
g’night all
Eli, a GREAT post…thanx everyone for the conversation
perris @ 153
Terrorism is very good for Republicans.
SnarKassandra @ 161
One of Conde’s proteges..
Eli @ 163
And they don’t care much about the rest of the people/
Loo Hoo @ 153 says:
Director of Lessons Learned in this administration will lonelier than the M*ytag repairman.
perris @
154
Bingo!
ccmask @ 145
Quick Google search.
Eli @ 163
And very, very good for Halliburton..
Eli @ 102
I too would like to see more action in the traditional media, but I think that those media are gradually losing their power. The losses in the newspaper industry are mounting. Recent efforts to sell major papers falter. TV news hasn’t been a real factor since Walter Cronkite quit. The only people who watch cable news are obsessives like us and our righty counterparts. And there is some evidence that corporate media are responding to bloggers, setting up their own sites, like that miserable mess at Swampland and Mary Ann Akers at the Wa Po, seeing comments to Broder. We just need to keep pushing.
And we need to figure out how to provide a financial base for the blogging community. We cannot ride on Jane and Arianna’s checkbooks forever.
Okay, I’m back to say thank you for the help! The debate went quite a few rounds but ultimately I had to call it in favor of myself. (Because I can.)
Thanks again…I love this place!
masaccio @ 169
And liberal radio like NovaM and Head On Radio.
A number of folks have talked about how critical it was/is to have the blogosphere and the ability to communicate in this manner. Don’t forget that the corporate powers that be are trying to shut it down or at least bias it strongly in their favor by creating 2 separate categories of internet access, one for the rich and for corporations that functions really fast and one for the hoi poloi (commoners, plebes, peons, i.e. the rest of us), that is slow, bug ridden and generally susceptible to outages.
Eli @ 163
It is almost as if the administration WANTED to hate everyone.
SnarKassandra @ 161
We promise to be good, and who is it that brings up subjects like this?
Actually it was talked about up thread IIRC.
Eli @ 163
I think it’s good for Neocons, but not for Republicans. The Republicans have been taken over by the Neocons who want the Republicans to think they are in on the game. They are not. That is the crux of the problem. The Neocons rule by fear, the Republicans think that has something to do with being conservative (safe). It does not. The Republicans have become the worker ants for the Neocons.
LS @ 150
Yikes!
It sounds like D@RP@ to me
What is IIRC ?
If I remember correctly
SnarKassandra @ 177
If I recall correctly
Let’s not get too snarky – “is the electorate learning?” How about bloggers, are they learning?
Does anyone really believe the chimp is the root cause of everything?
Does anyone believe this gang of morons was really capable of propelling an AWOL alcoholic/cocaine addict into the pResidency – proclaiming that Americans wanted to have a drink with an obnoxious cocaine-addict/alcoholic?
Does anyone really believe that these fools were able to hoist an AWOL drunk into being a “war president”?
Does anyone really believe these incompetents are able to play the mainstream media like a mighty wurlitzer? That it is the great “leadership” from the white house that makes them “catapult the propaganda”?
This criminality of this administration does not start with the chimp and it will not end with him either.
Sure – good all good points in this post, but let’s get real here: THE FOLKS BEHIND THIS AGENDA ARE OUR REAL PROBLEM, NOT THE MORONS THEY PUT IN FRONT OF THE CAMERAS AND MICROPHONES.
Eventually, we will have to get past the chimp and talk about the people that created this situation and not the folks that they use.
SnarKassandra @ 177
If I Recall Correctly
I thought you kids invented all these abbreviations when you were texting
Cassie: I have an abbreviation spreadsheet if you want it…
also, IIRC is something that Gonzo has a big problem with!
SnarKassandra @ 177
shorthand for “If I recall correctly”
LS @ 174
The Republicans believe terrorism is a winning issue for them, that Americans think they are the only party that can keep us safe.
The Republicans like terrorism for electoral reasons; the neocons like terrorism for imperial reasons.
SnarKassandra @
178
If I Remember Correctly
LS @ 150
I’m laughing because that would be my reaction. But, it’s amazing how paranoid we’ve become.
SnarKassandra @ 178
If I Recall/Remember Correctly ~ http://www.acronymfinder.com/
jane_jericho @
151
It might be as instructive to consider the other end of it: suppose the netroots had been as well-developed as they are now (or even as they were in 2004, say), back in 2000 or 2001? Not that we should wallow in regret, which is pointless, but as a way of trying to gauge the true power of the medium.
ccmask @ 182
Can I have it? I feel so out of it most of the time.
ccmask @ 182
yes please
http://www.acronymfinder.com/
Eli at 159–
And even nothwithstanding the kind of threat you’re talking about here, just the difficulty of communication alone must have been overwhelming.
The netroots are an engine of hope, and hope is what powers resistance, imo, in the long run.
wow – bill moyers with jon and josh – wow
prostratedragon @ 188
It was sooo close that just about *anything* would have been sufficient to tip the balance. 500 votes in Florida? That’s not much at all.
SnarKassandra at 158
Back then, I was
throwing food on the main threadblogging at the HuffPo. The night Ned prevailed (he basically led from wire to wire,) you would have thought we had won the world series!Once the primary was over, the news faded away and I lost touch with Ned’s campaign against the newly independent Joe.
What happened? Why did Ned lose the re-match?
ccmask,
did you see this?
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ent-655392
It was caught in moderation.
perris @ 162
I hope you’ve drilled down thru their ‘privacy’ notification and ‘opted out’ of their click tracking you everywhere…even when not ‘logged on Yahoo!’.
An oil war, a religious war, perpetuation of a dynasty. Or all three?
petedownunder: Actually, that acronymfinder that Lou just linked is pretty cool. Better than mine.
jane_jericho @ 193
And even nothwithstanding the kind of threat you’re talking about here, just the difficulty of communication alone must have been overwhelming.
The netroots are an engine of hope, and hope is what powers resistance, imo, in the long run.
I agree, but I also fear that some future Karl Rove will figure a way to use the net to organize his Brownshirts
perris @ 155
On that note, I see the director of Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room has just produced a new documentary, Taxi to the Dark Side:
Trailer here.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 200
All of the above plus empire building/perpetuation.
Then we need to invent the next thing!
I can’t believe that Gonzo thought that the USA affair was just a overblown personnel problem? I’m watching Moyers and TPM is up…
radiofreewill @ 195
I’ve seen a lot of complaints about his campaign losing its way after the primary, but I think the biggest problem was that he had to contend with a pool of voters that included Republicans and Independents as well as Democratic Lieberman holdouts.
Loo Hoo @ 103
Loo Hoo – when you write “in a normal America” I assume you mean BBC – Before Bush/Cheney – cause that is what I call a definition of double DING! DING! for conscious Americans young and old.
I remember my late parents glued to the radio when Ike made his prescient farewell speech from the White House to the nation warning of the dangers of the “Industrial Military Complex” that morphed over the years into our current Corporate Military Complex.
The world is waiting with considerable anxiety in hope We the People sack these complicit Republicans including the closet cases like Lieberman, et al hiding in plain view in the halls of the People’s House and Senate.
ReElect President Gore in 2008!
Restore honor, intelligence, sanity and democracy to our body politic.
of the People ranks.
perris @ 136
Eli @ 148
Long Live LeftBlogistan, Keepers of the Great Experiment!
ccmask @ 205
It is not on here.
Jay @ 200
I think they’re already hard at work on that, but they haven’t figured it out yet.
SnarKassandra @ 210
I bet it came on at 8 on your stations, just as it did the other night. It started here iin San Antonio at 9.
Eli @ 211
The brownshirts are easilly distracted by pr0n.
Lucky for us.
thank you, eli, for asking that question.
because i think the very asking of the question proves what i was telling msoc and the freeway blogger the other day (at maryscott’s lovely sherman oaks home)…
blogs have an effect!
maybe not a direct effect, maybe not a dramatic effect…no, it’s more like a diffused evolving…when you drop a drop of blue dye in a tank of water, it doesn’t turn blue. a few more drops, and a light blue tinge begins to appear…eventually, with steady drops, the water turns from robins egg to light powder to turquoise to navy to aquamarine…etc etc etc.
would we have hope w/o blogs? sure, as long as there’s breath, there’s hope, always remember that kids.
but we’d be a lot worse off w/o blogs, and i will fight to the 404 page anyone who dismisses this medium with a “we’re only preaching to the choir.”
maybe so, but the choir gets louder, and then gets heard by the mmm, and then by the politicians.
we are important.
we matter.
Two items stood out for me as reasons (besides vote rigging, vote stealing, Court corruption, and just butt-ignorance) that GWB squeeked by in 00 and 00:
00
Selecting Joe Lieberman as a running mate. I don’t know why anyone would want him on their side, even the hawks. The site of him down in Florida sucking up to the Cuban exiles. Please. What on earth was Gore thinking? I am still agog.
04
Kerry could chatter on as reasonably as he wanted about anything, but could never rise to the height of his previous glory to denounce an on-going war as a crime and a tragedy.
I sort of compare both these losses to the career of Colin Powell. Could have been lauded as the greatest general, secretary of state, and even future President for whatever party he chose if he’d had the courage of what I had naively supposed to be his convictions. Instead, he will have the label of patsy. No tears (or joy) in any of this.
Eli @ 211
I wonder if there is a yet unknown FBI ongoing investigation tracking him that we don’t know about. I can hope, can’t I? I feel that they are on to them all at some level. There are still many dedicated people going after this stuff behind the scenes.
SnarKassandra @
192
It’s in the TLAM…three letter acronym manual
The blogosphere is simply the medium. If it wasn’t here, something else would take its place. Since it is here, those inclined will utilize it.
I could also make the case that if the left owns the blogosphere, then the right (as demonstrated by Chattanooga) owns the ethersphere, the dark space. [but then I’d have to run away quickly] :)
IIRC is “If I remember correctly”
Jay at 202–
It’s almost inevitable, it seems to me. But we’ll still be there to counter whatever happens (assuming we’re smart enough to protect what we’ve got, as John S at 173 points out). The net’s an equalizer, whereas the current regime had been counting on secrecy and silence.
SnarKassandra @ 210
They will post the complete show here tomorrow: http://www.pbs.org/moyers/jour…..index.html *They already have the transcript.
VERY interesting post.
It was Chris Matthews who declared that dubya was a guy that most americans would like ta have a beer with. I’m not sure that that’s the reason that those who voted for him voted for him. For many it was “ideology”- he’s the small govt guy- he’s the cut taxes guy- he’s the outlaw abortion and gay marriage guy-etc. So the “mistake” may have been more an ideological mistake than a “personality” one.
The ERROR was partly in not determining that the guy knew how to manage anything- how to design anything. In fact he has ZERO leadership or management ability- NONE..
So let’s make sure that the next president is COMPETENT first- and fits our ideology second.
I say that without the liberal bloggers out there constantly shining a light on all the S**t that the right wingers have been trying to pull, some if not all of our worst nightmares would have been realized by now. Furthermore we need a counter weight to the %$#&! like O’Reilly, Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity, et. al. The results of the 2006 elections would have been drastically different if not for the reporting by sites such as this one, The Huffington post, The Daily Kos, The Daily Howler, Crooks & Liars, Media Matters, etc. I’m a perfect example because I used to get all my news from CNN USAtoday, Time, and Newsweek. Now I don’t even go near them (unless it’s to read about the NFL draft). Try to imagine what this country would be like today if there were a blogosphere during the sixties….
rwcole @ 220
Ideology is still important, but if more people were looking at competence and qualifications, Dubya wouldn’t have stood a chance in 2000 or 2004.
What is prOn?
I remember back in 2000 responding to the comment about Gore being a stiff or a nerd, I said “don’t you want the smartest guy in the room to be President?”
OT..More Tobias stuff
Tobias’ private cell number was among thousands of numbers listed in the telephone records provided to ABC News by Jeane Palfrey, the woman dubbed the “D.C. Madam,” who is facing the federal charges. In an interview to be broadcast on “20/20″ next Friday, Palfrey says she intends to call Tobias and a number of her other prominent D.C. clients to testify at her trial.
“I’m sure as heck not going to be going to federal prison for one day, let alone, four to eight years, because I’m shy about bringing in the deputy secretary of whatever,” Palfrey told ABC News.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thebl…..icial.html
As someone connected with the public school system, I’m interested in the NCLB tests. Can anyone here enlighten me as to what were the say five or 10 most unfair questions asked on the last tests taken. And when exactly were these tests taken?
Loo Hoo @ 225
Switch the middle two letters around ;-)
John W @ 222
I love the blogosphere!
Twisted Martini @ 224
Exactly. I want a president whose intellect fucking *intimidates* me.
SnarKassandra @ 147
Aloha! I think tonite will be tamer in inuendoos and double intendres, we’re more insightful and incensed than the rough and tumble of last night!!! Sorry that I’m belated in extending my welcome, I was away for about a hour!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 227
We finished our tests a week ago today. We take a zillion in 8th and again in 11th, but 3 in 9th & 10th.
CTuttle @ 231
Does this mean my Rod Majors retrospective is off?
Twisted Martini @ 226
The American Idol proves that charisma is it…rock star…blah, blah, blah…that’s part of the problem. Eye candy. The handlers know that. It is all “image”. Like the Monkees….something like that. Nothing more than a “front”. It is who is behind it that is the question. Who is behind all of this?
The president must be able to pick people- to bring people to government who are among the best, brightest, and most competent.
The president needs to be able to sift through alternative courses of action and pick the one that has the best chances of success.
The president must be able to follow through aggressively and make sure that things are being done- and being done properly.
The president must have the wisdom to know when to push ahead and when to modify the plan.
This president has NONE of those skills- and that’s why the country is fucked up. A fuck up will NEVER produce good results- even if you agree with his “philosophy”- NEVER- it CAN’T happen.
Eli,
You’re too optimistic, I’m afraid. There are too many Joe Sixpacks who are interested mainly in the World Series, the Superbowl, and American Idol, and they’ll only pay attention if something starts to affect them directly, like someone they know in a war they don’t understand, or losing a job, or having a catastrophic illness, or losing their home– basic lunch bucket issues. Otherwise, all they want is bread and circusses, and they don’t care who’s in charge.
Bob in HI
Seriously, the wonderful thing about the net is that it is entirely content neutral.
Fast computers and advanced index and serrch algorithms make it possible for any number of like-minded people to find one another and collaborate.
This is a two-edged sword.
Progressive patriots, grateful deadheads and child predators,can all find each other (and be found) in a relativly transparent manner.
Luckilly there are more of the former than the latter (the middle bunch have a surprisingly large number as well).
The greatest threat is to the former gatekeepers.
Pundits and old-school access journalists are as functionally useless as travel agents and record stores, they just haven’t realized it yet.
Steve @ 227
BRING IT ON…!!
rwcole @ 235
The president needs to say 2 whole sentences that make sense on the same topic. And he needs to know how to think. And he needs to have a heart.
Actually, it’s the unfair (or most difficult) questions part I am more interested in.
Bob Schacht @ 235
There’s always going to be a core of people who are apathetic or true believers, but I think it’s shrinking as more of them are seeing the consequences of electing a complete blithering idiot.
SnarKassandra @ 240
And he needs his ass kicked out of the White House
LoudounLib @
229
We have to con the spam filters and troll-bots or it puts extra work on our hard-working mods. And they’re busy enough dealing with all our zigs. {{{{{{MODS}}}}}}
Randy Tobias was the CEO of Lilly, and a big player here in Indy. He married Marianne McKinney, whose husband was a bank president and was killed in a plane crash. Guy’s got a ginormous house, one of the most ridiculous spreads in Indy.
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF…..46&t=k
A Rhodes scholar, perhaps?
SnarKassandra @ 239
and…The president must live by the following motto:
Know Justice. Know Peace.
No Justice. No Peace.
aliasofwestgate @ 53
same here. (still catching up on comments). I am one of the “distracted middle” that Jon Stewart alludes to. Finding FDL is, indeed a blessing (you lovable hardcore lefties, you).
I no longer feel voting is enough, although for most Americans it is a serious step to reclaim and not take for granted (which I am guilty of). I cannot believe I actually contacted my Senator (DiFi!) twice. I would never have done that if I thought the Constitution was intact.
The culture of lawlessness in this admin is breathtakingly dangerous. I think Bush et al should be tried for treason. He IS the terrorist. What can one think of a man who thinks he can get away with torture? It’s beyond partisanship and I wish Republicans would wake up and reinvent their party, because he ain’t it.
Cassie@147
It wasn’t that anyone kicked you off last night; it was aunt betsy not letting you on. *g*
Moyers ended his show with this…The further you get away from power, the closer you get to the truth.
do-si-do @ 246
Necessary but not sufficient, as the saying goes.
SnarKassandra @ 241
As compared to the present situation, where we have the anti-Scarecrow and anti-Lion in power..
I don’t want to start a firestorm over false information. And, I’ve looked without success for a quote I think I remember but I’ve read so many books, articles,blogs etc. that I’ve had no luck. The quote that I’m not sure about was GWB saying something like ‘my father blew it. If I ever become a war president, I will use that to make the presidency stronger’
Anyone remember anything like that?
If I remember right and GWB said that, it makes things more clear.
Eli, blogging is better than screaming back at your TV — behaviour that tends to send your Siberian Husky into total circle dance, not necessarily relieved by the delivery of a cookie.
Cassie, Amen to that!
Got it. Thanks dakine and loudoun! Kinda thick here.
Jay @ 243
Double ding!
Most successful CEOs are not academic types- nor are they geniuses- they have a bias for action—after proper deliberation. They are more active than passive- more doer than thinker- and they have the skills to pull off monumental organizational change- which requires the ability to “sell”..
I’m not sure which dem candidate has those qualities- maybe Obama- probably Richardson.
Just popped in, don’t really have the time to go through all the comments…also, I didnt get to see the debate in S. Carolina, so if I’m barking up the wrong tree, please let me know…
The idea that we need to avoid choosing the next president based on charisma is something that I’ve been pondering for a while now, particularly in regards to Obama’s candidacy.
I run into many people who are intrigued by Obama, people who would normally be apolitical, and also people who voted for Bush and feel let down by the job he’s done. Obama appeals to them with his message of how we’re all in this together, and…
…and that’s about it. They don’t really know his position on any issues; of course, neither does anybody else. The problem is that they’ve fallen in love with a cipher. I’m worried Obama’s going to hire some consultants that convince him to be as abstract as he can get, and we’re going to end up with a Democratic nominee that we don’t know anything about.
I guess the question is, are we going to find our own Karl Rove, who will do anything to get our most ‘attractive’ candidate elected, or are we going to push our candidates on the issues, draw blood, give the Repubs some ammo, and go into November ‘08 ready for anything.
Is there a thin line between an occupation and genocide?
Sara @ 252
The liberal blogosphere has improved the peace of mind of liberal pets throughout the country.
Eli @ 261
And for that alone we can be proud.. good stuff tonight, Eli, thanks.
solai @ 253
Don’t know if he said it, but it sure sounds like something he would say. He has been fighting two ghosts for his entire administration and those ghosts have “caused” most of his problems. He’s been fighting the ghost of Bill Clinton which has created a large number of his problems. AND he has been fighting the ghost of his father as a one term president. I do recall that he is supposed to have been upset that his father lost in ‘92 after having the high polling after gulf war I in ‘91. So that is in line with the statement you’re looking for.
It’s actually pretty hard to believe that Clusterfuck got elected cause of his personality….THAT personality?
TRex started the Latenight thread. :) :)
Bob Schacht @ 237
Ohhh, you said before I could…
Yes, this concept of “it’s the other guy’s problem. I don’t worry until it’s my problem” is borne out by the fact that now more people “believe” in global warming because of Hurricane Katrina, failed crops, etc. This is the concrete evidence.
We need to find the concrete, “why this matters to you, joe sixpack”, reasons to get up off the couch and pay attention.
sylvainsylvain @ 257
The first draft of this post in my head actually singled out Obama for this kind of consideration, not necessarily because he lacks substance (I’m not a big Obama believer, but that’s neither here not there), but because he is the candidate most conspicuously reliant on charisma out of all of the Big Six.
If he wins the nomination based on his positions, qualifications, intellect, *and* charisma, I’m fine with that. But charisma alone will not be enough to repair the damage that BushCo. has done.
SnarKassandra @ 265
Oh, joy..
Bill Moyers BEST line tonight:
TRex upstairs!
ccmask @ 260
Tough question. Not that I’m in favor of an occupation, but if properly planned for and implemented, it should be a very thick line. As practiced in the current world, genocide almost seems to be a natural by-product.
dakine01 @ 270
Do you have to kill people in an occupation?
dakine01 @ 269
Yeah, it’s a very thick line. Occupation sucks, but it’s not supposed to include depopulation.
Lou Costello @ 267
Ahem.
do-si-do @ 247
Agreed.
And when Moyers asked Stewart tonight why it is so hard to have a conversation (like the one Stewart tried to have with McCain), why it’s so hard to push past the talking points, I believe the reason is because really, what lies beyond it is a steep drop off (from wading to treading neck deep), and it is so breathtakingly abhorrent.
It’s the same reason only 1 guy raised his hand in favor of impeachment at last night’s debate.
It’s as though there are two lines of thought right now:
1) That it really IS that bad or
2) That if we somehow salvage a little bit of the illusion (to ‘play along with’ what we’ve been fed — that it’s just a *little* maladministration), we’ll have a better chance of somehow wiggling free of this mess with minimal damage.
I’m starting to wonder if the latter is even possible….
SnarKassandra @ 272 asks:
By nature of an occupation, there will be deaths as those who fight the occupation (called freedom fighters by the occupied, called terrorists by the occupiers) will continue to resist. We won the war in Iraq very quickly. We’ve lost the occupation. Given the realities over there, it is doubtful we could have won the occupation but the way it has been implemented makes it a given. During WWII, we won the war by destroying the enemies but won the occupation by rebuilding Japan and Germany so it can go both ways. But I think WWII was an aberration and this is the norm.
Lou Costello @ 270
I’d say they’re using them with precision though. Not so willy nilly as the Republics did against Clinton.
Eli @ 273
But when does it become genocide, I wonder? Especially when the facts don’t support the purpose of the occupation. Is it possible the USA could be charged with genocide or is that for third world countries only?
aliasofwestgate @ 275
Scalpel, not bludgeon.
ccmask @ 276
I think we’re still quite a ways away from genocide. Atrocities, maybe. War crimes, definitely.
“genocide” is probably a word that should be reserved for some very special situations- in which one party tries to totally eliminate another subspecies off the face of the earth down to the last man, woman, and child.
The Republicans have been using a veneer of logical arguments and fictional “facts” to coverup their fundamental criminality.
When Jon Stewart says the Bush administration, and their supporting cast of Republicans, are willing to appear to be incompetent pinheads, it’s because they don’t want to talk about their criminality.
They said for a long time the electorate was nearly 50-50 (which it incidentally is if you ignore that a huge percentage of the public simply doesn’t vote) and then they stole elections by a few percentage points while saying it was just a close election. It’s great cover when the truth helps you cover up treason.
They used the same technique when they attacked Joe Wilson and said outing Valerie Plame was just to get Joe. But, the fact is more likely that they went after Joe to provide cover for their real hatchet job of getting rid of the nuclear non-proliferation unit Valerie headed for the CIA.
They said terrorists attacked us on 9/11 and based everything illegitimate they wanted to do on that and didn’t allow the original statement to be challenged. How convenient!
They then morphed “Al Qaeda terrorists” into “We’ve got to fight THEM over there so they won’t come back over here.” so they could attack a completely uninvolved country (Iraq) to plunder it. Later when it became embarassing to hear over and over that there was no Al Qaeda in Iraq there suddenly appeared a new group of insurgents in Iraq named (you guessed it) “Al Qaeda In Iraq”. How convenient!
In an interview with Charlie Rose just yesterday General Petraeus repeatedly said “Al Qaeda” and only a couple of times tossed in “Al Qaeda Iraq” to conflate the two.
They are sophisticated, probably pay off all the mainstream media and they are very very bad for America.
Of course, mainstream corporate America doesn’t seem to care much about America either. Their business is more and more international, so we have to work together to protect ourselves and ensure our government isn’t just a paid subsidiary of America Corp.
rwcole @ 279
Exactly. I don’t *think* that’s the US military’s intent in Iraq, although if the neocons stay in charge, I can see them deciding that that’s the only way to calm things down…
rwcole @ 281
Which is the one thing that scares me about pulling out of Iraq. The Sunnis are the minority and if the Shia start trying to pull a Serbia or Darfur (both attempts at genocide in modern world) against the Sunnis, then Sauadis come in on one side and Iran on the other and we really do have the beginnings of WWIII AND IV.
MarkH @ 280
When the choice is between admitting stupidity or incompetence, vs. admitting dishonesty and criminality, guess which one most people will pick.
Eli @ 283
Okay. Thanks for straightening that out for me. Sorry for the OT.
No problem, thread was winding down anyway.
ccmask @ 260
More like a time line….
Written from California, former home to nearly seventy distinct Native Californian civilizations.
We white people killed them, and the longer we stayed, the more we killed.
Most of the tribal cultures were destroyed or severely damaged.
Genocide – most of seventy cultures destroyed forever.
Even the grasses that dry to cover our storied golden hills are from cruel Iberia.
Like the native peoples, the very native grasses were displaced….
That is so true Kirk. It’s a period in time and Bush is a comma.
rwcole @ 257
That’s IF you buy into the model of government as a business.
imho, that approach, with profits-as-conscience, sucks.
To wit, what we have now.
We need someone who is dedicated to governing.
Someone who is perhaps
one part academic/legal
one part visionary/genius,
a whole lotta facilitator/diplomat, and
a doer based on all of the above.
Obama’s looking green and is emitting a gruff-to-shrill bark to more than make up for it. Richardson hit a note of quick-tempered non-reflective cowboyism that dovetails all to well with the current shenanigans.
I still don’t think we’ve seen the whole field yet, and that’s probably by design.
TribeScribe @ 288
Without any other CEO presidents to compare to, it’s hard to say for sure whether the problem is that Bush is a CEO, or that he’s a *really shitty* CEO.
Eli @ 290
The way *good CEO* is being defined these days, I’d say, yeah, he’s one of those.
What does CEO mean?
Eli @ 291
Disagree. With today’s business world, Bush is far to indicative of the MBA mentality. The fact that HE has been a total incompetent and failed upwards all his life does not mitigate agaisnt other MBA types also being disastrous. Just probably not on the same scale. Think Herbert Hoover and Cal Coolidge as business types who “governed” us into the depression.
SnarKassandra @ 293
chief executive officer. In business, the person who makes the decisions, sometimes company president, sometimes chairman of board.
Kassie: You also see the related term CFO used quite a bit, for Chief Financial Officer…
CD @ 296
Or CIO for Chief Information Officer or CTO for Chief Technology Officer
Eli @ 280
Hope I don’t seem rude by disagreeing.
John the Baptists’ co-religionists still worshipped in intact communities in pre-invasion Iraq.
Their culture has been destroyed and their people massacred, the survivors dispersed.
Other relict communities from ancient cultures – cultures living in Mesopotamia for centuries – have perished in the American occupation of Iraq.
Extirpation of the last remaining human communities within a culture is genocide.
Sadly, in Iraq we seem to have meet the test for this atrocity – along with our many other crimes against human rights and international law.
America under Bush is an international outlaw nation. -
Our nation is a pariah state.
Just six decades after Nuremberg.
(edited by kjm)
kirk murphy @ 297
Exactly.
500,000 dead.
2 million refugees to other countries
2 million displaced internally
Museums destroyed…
Fair enough, kirk. I was thinking about the larger groups, like the Sunnis and Shi’ites and Kurds.
dakine01 @ 293
yep. With the corporate model today, profits dictate conscience. It is the modern day extension of the religious argument that the end justifies the means. Whose end is justified is precisely why these jokers can smirk and feel satisfied that they’ve done a heckuva job.
Good Lord No — you don’t have to kill people in an occupation.
Please get familiar with the Biography of George C. Marshall who was Pershing’s briefing officer during the Versailles Period following World Wor One, and liason with the British and French — all about the occupation of the Rheinland and the Ruhr — the failure of that occupation due to lack of planning and common objectives, the subsequent rise of the militias, the Freikorps in Germany, all of which leads in detail to the rise of Hitler and the Nazi Party. Marshall understood this in 1922. While not at all at the top of the military heap at that time (he was sent to China actually) he pressured Pershing to conduct the historical studies about occupation, and then in the 30’s when he was in a far more influential position, he commissioned the work on “how to do it right.”
General George Marshall planned the 1945 occupation of Germany, and how to execute it so as to achieve political ends, for more than 20 years before he was in a command position.
The only awareness I can find of anyone in the whole Iraq adventure being even half way aware of what kind of prep was required for an occupation is that Jay Garner sat down in the Pentagon Library for two days before he went to Iraq, and read Marshall’s planning papers. But he had two weeks notice he was going to Iraq, and he lasted less than a month. (See: Assassins Gate)
1) Marshall and FDR agreed on the purpose of an occupation of all of Germany. (both had been at Versailles and knew what had gone badly wrong.)
2) Marshall estimated and then trained 6000 officers specifically for Military Government of Germany. None of them were in Combat. His thesis was that a blooded soldier was a bad risk for any sort of occupation duty.
3) The Population of Iraq is roughly the same as the US Zone in Germany. However the US Zone in Germany is the size of Kentucky, and Iraq is the size of California. For occupation duty in 1945 we used 6000 officers, about 3500 NCO’s, and about 120,000 troops trained as MP’s. But we also had in cantonments about 2 million combat troops not used in occupation efforts. (This was gradually reduced as transit home was available). Gradually the German Population was turned toward a future, and a new sort of politics. This was all planned.
4) Wesley Clark assures me they still teach all this stuff at West Point, but the powers that were in DC in 2003 were quite unlikely to consult the wisdom of George Marshall. Rumsfeld had much better ideas and thought past success essentially useless in understanding “how to do it properly.” In otherwords, one doesn’t get stars in the current structure of the officer corps, by knowing much about past success, and how it was accomplished.
aliasofwestgate @
137
It all starts with us.
It’s as simple as that.
We’re in this spot now because too many people became too complacent, or were too busy. Nice of the elites to make sure we have to work so many hours to line their pockets–and keep us too busy to hinder their machinations. But, anyway, a lot of people are learning that a democracy takes work, even if you’re dead dog tired.
I would point to the Immokalee (sp?) farm workers for the example. These are people who had nothing, no education, some of them don’t even speak English. They worked long hours, doing back-breaking jobs…but they still found time to stand up for themselves, against giant corporations. They shouldn’t have stood a chance. But they took on Yum Foods (Taco Bell among many others)–and WON. Then they went after McDonald’s. And WON. Yes, you read that right. They kicked McDonald’s ass.
It’s because they found the time. They found the time because they knew they had to find it, or be exploited forever.
My grandparents were doggedly involved in Democratic politics. My grandfather worked long, hard hours as a jack-of-all-trades construction worker (he could build a house from the ground up, and then make furnishings, too!). My grandmother had 8 children in about 14 years. You know she had ZERO free time. They had elementary school educations and they were dirt poor, even by Depression standards. But they found time to get involved, to work on campaigns, to make a difference. They did it because they felt like they had to, or have their children know the same desperate poverty they did.
I’d wager that the lives of most people here are a lot better than theirs, or that of the Immokaliee workers. They found the time, and the will. We have to do the same. We cannot become complacent again.
This is our government, what happens to it is in our hands, more than we often realize, and we cannot forget it, ever.
Riesz Fischer @ 46
Here it is, watch.
http://wkar.org/offtherecord/p…..um=2007-43
Sara: You know more than Rumsfeld did. Great post. Are you a historian?
kristineIA @
63 (& @ 171)
Kristine, you might also try this, in any future rounds:
The concern and resulting investigations in Congress are focused on the (increasingly likely) possibility that that historical and Constitutional role of the US Attorneys has been turned on its head by the Bush “administration,” in an effort to politicize the actions of their offices in defiance of all legal and ethical precedent in our Department of Justice.
“The President” is the title of an elected public servant who “faithfully executes” the will of Congress on behalf of every American. In fact, however, this President has used his public office to promote the narrow interests of a private political party in every way possible, the American people and “justice for all” be damned.
TribeScribe @ 247 cites a motto which captures well a truism about how and why, without fear or favor, our Department of Justice ought to carry out its duties:
Eli @
242
Yes, they’re seeing that now, and maybe we’ll be able to sustain their interest until after Nov. 2008, but how’re we going to hold their attention after that?
Bob in HI
Bob Schacht @ 306
I guess we’ll just have to keep reminding them. And if the Democrats are smart, they’ll keep reminding them too.
What a difference a day makes……..
Tobias held two titles: director of U.S. foreign assistance and administrator for the U.S. Agency for International Development. His rank was equivalent to deputy secretary of state.
Rice named Tobias to head the two programs in January 2006, and on Wednesday was at the White House, where President Bush praised his efforts coordinating global AIDS relief. Tobias had been the White House’s coordinator for global AIDS relief before taking the USAID post.
2-pager
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics…..id=3092926
Eli @
301
Hope I wasn’t being difficult….
Cultural Survival (and News From Native California) taught me gratitude for the indigenous cultures still living on this planet….
and grief that we continue to destroy them…
with our chain-saws, weapons, and
religious invadersmissionaries…and with our WTO’s, NAFTA’s, border walls, and cruel “economies” -
a strange term for delusions that tell us to squander and waste the living world.
Powwow: Also, you can add that without the Patriot Act, they would have had to be confirmed, right?
No problem, kirk.
This was a really great thread Eli. It all comes down to the main theme: Be careful who you vote for.
good night
and good luck.
ccmask @ 312
Right, ccmask.
No requirement for Senate confirmation of the President’s choices for replacement United States Attorneys (after the Senate-confirmed incumbent office-holders were no longer “pleasing” the President and were removed) was another way to politicize those offices. [Gonzales is pretending that he wanted that PATRIOT Act provision inserted because he didn’t want District Judges (horrors!) selecting interim US Attorneys for vacant seats, when the President didn’t move quickly enough to appoint a successor for Senate confirmation. Those interim US Attorneys are just that - interim - yet to avoid such temporary appointees by the Judicial Branch, all replacement US Attorney Senate confirmations in the Legislative Branch needed to be hastily thrown out in the process? They’re selling, but we’re not buying…]
No time, too much good music in my ears and I got my dobro out and I’m smashing it and mashing it like a TRex on a blog.
Answer to the Posited Q Of Thread;
NO!!!
Without blogs, we’d still be eating gruel and swilling cheap mead and working for the king.
Blogs Rawhk.
I’m getting here late and I’ve not read the thread but just came across this
http://www.nydailynews.com/opi…..007-04-25_put_bushs_puppy_dog_terror_theory_to_sle.html
thatis pertinent to the post’s issues that folks might want to check out.
back to the thread. Peace and hope
Riesz Fischer @
46
Here’s the link.
solai @ 44
Not only company, but for me I am less stressed and no longer enraged to the point of screaming at my poor 88 year old conservative father who despairs for his party and the world while still reading the National Review, cover to cover.
I lurk here, sometimes check out other sites recommended, sometimes comment. I do buzz flash as recommended by my nephew and peek at the MSM less and less. I’m fascinated to see that very often there are small cities
papers breaking news on the ongoing scandals that MSM doesn’t know yet and may never cover.
Fascinated that folks have been impressed with the the McClatchy reporters on Moyers the other night. The local Sacramento Bee (McClatchy home base) wins all kinds of prizes for in depth investigations about a lot of critical issues but they don’t do the kinds of analysis that I find here in the comments or the references cited. They do political analysis columns, supposedly balanced, but the the “liberals” are very centrist and never controversial. The conservatives are not extreme, but have little of value to say, but then neither do the others. The Bee is too traditional, mostly reprints of lead stories from the big MSM papers. And while that makes them flaming liberals for a lot of their readers, I see them as, well, where’s the beef? Where’s the depth?
I praise God that bro turned me on to FDL. I praise God that there is a huge network of folks eager to learn more, do more, hope more, be more passionate, angry, active, thinking and longing for authentic righteousness and justice and ……
Support Kucinich on the impeach Cheney movement. and thanks for the article below on impeachment issues.
peace
I think: If there hadn’t been a computer-internet society, then, perhaps, there wouldn’t have been the computer voting machines, which the Right used to steal MANY elections, not just the Presidential. So. . . perhaps this situation (Busha junta) would not have occured quite so quickly, nor been highlighted by the Left Blogosphere. What I’m trying to say is perhaps they are opposite sides of a coin. Rove used computer tech for evil, but didnt realise the capacity of using it for good. My question is: What if Rove didn’t exist?
ccmask @
260
as a tribal person from here, no.
Fern @
105
And I bet he paid them in “Roses”!
if ‘06 had not happened, the northwest would be in the middle of secession proceedings. we have hayden lake white power types around here, so it was clear there has been an extremist entity alive and well here on good ol’ turtle island for quite a while.
no blogosphere, no problem, we always had the moccasin grapevine. when cheney finds some way to cut off everyone’s internet, we’ll still have the vine.
no one has to convince native people that invasion, genocide, murder, rape and pillaging is not a great way to introduce yourself to your host.
we are here for the long term, though, so we since we can’t ship you back to where you came from, let’s stop being afraid of each other first, everything else good may follow after.
Sara @
303
What’s interesting is that Marshall saw some major screw ups in the Philippines. And contrary to the wingnuts, who totally distort the facts on this point, Pershing was one of the most understanding of Islam and how to work with local Muslim leaders when he served there. But Pershing was also very harsh with those that fought bvack, although he never did what the wingnuts assert with pigskins…apparently they got this from a Gary Cooper movie and think it’s reality! Sort of like Ronald Reagan thinking that he fought in WW2, or how the wingnuts think that Dubya landed a jet on the aircraft carrier on “Combat Operations Are Over! Mission Accomplished Day!” Pershing knew that the Koran did not say that INVOLUNTARY contact with a pig would deny access to paradise…and he would have known that such an act would only have driven the enemy to even greater acts of aggression and bring more recruits in from groups he had already reached agreements with.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.htm
I suspect that Marshall and Pershing wanted to avoid the errors of the Philippines and Versailles, and have a policy in place that was cognicent of the culture and politics of the occupied areas.
ccmask @
310
So does that mean he used a condom? Or was he relying more on a “faith-based” initiative for his “International Development” (or Affaires). I suppose that his involvement with Latin American gals was just his local endeavor at self-initiated foreign aid.
Kairos in Cal @ 321
Hi. wow. you guys still here? I also have an R dad. But he doesn’t despair because he’s a 29 percenter who can’t admit a mistake. So he rails about Gore and global warming and what a fraud it is. Dad, that is like soooo six years ago. Where is your dad, behind the Orange Curtain? we live in california too
I get tired of hearing one of the minor premises of this post–that had Gore won bigger, he would “really” have won. Let’s start essays like this (here in the reality based community) with the truth–the fascis…err…GOP STOLE the presidential election in 2000. The implications for the mentality of our citizens and our press–that this could happen–are dire. But it’s what happened. Gore won the election. Then it was stolen.
Just remember that it only took 6 years after Richard Nixon for Republicans to regain dominance. Same thing will happen now. In a few years, Americans will remember how much they hate homosexual, and how much they love Jesus and war.
FDL is a breath of fresh air. Watching MSM and then reading FDL is like being in two different countries.
I’m probably more conservative than some of the authors and posters here but I love the fact that this blog is telling the truth and exposing the lies and incredible arrogance of the Bush administration. Their able accomplices the media have to own a share of this as well.
They have inflicted so much pain on this country. The worst thing is that they don’t care. As long as they get what they want, the rest of us don’t matter.
I live in Kentucky home of one of the worst, Mitch McConnell. I am definitely going to work as hard as I can to rid our state of him. An uphill battle to be sure but not totally impossible.
Thanks to FDL, I feel a sense of empowerment that was previously missing.
Beel @ 329
Actualy, it was a first for our nation that the Supreme Court got to decide who the next president of the country would be. Does this mean that a precedent has been set? How come our founding fathers were so smart?
Voodoo Chile @ 330
This time it’s going to be different because some Republicans are going to end up at the War Crimes Tribunal at the Hague, many more will end up in Federal prisons and there is even the possibility that one or two may actually be executed for treason. In that case the Republican Party will be so dishonored and tarnished in the mind of the people that in all likelihood they will go the way of the Whig Party.
The answer to your questions at the end is
No.
W/o reading other comments.
Undeniable effects: TPM / FDL on USA scandal
More hidden: the Dem’s taking a harder line on Iraq
W/o going any further: the liberal blogosphere has changed the world directly and tangibly for the better (pat yourselves on the back – OK, that’s enough, get back to work ;-).
Would the world be changing w/o blogs? Yes, but much, much more slowly. Stewart / Colbert would have more effect, but less ammo. The Nation might have larger circulation. There might be another Olberman (business people love money more than ideology). But I suspect 2006 would have been “better” but not a victory.
The trouble is, after we finally wise up, we’re still left with a gutted economy. We may be getting control of our country back, but the pirates that have been in control have stolen every last cent, they’ve sold our productive capacity so we are left to dig ourselves out of this mess with what we can earn working at Wal Mart or McDonalds?
A moment after we throw BushCo out, they’ll be on TV blaming the Democrats for the lousy economy, the same economy that BushCo left in shambles. The lousy economy that’s been papered over with Phony numbers.
Phony Balance of Trade, Unemployment, and Inflation numbers.
The National Debt.
Amount of tax benefits given to the rich by post-dating thefts from Social Security Trust Fund.
Bonus’s paid to CEOs of large corporations to drive their domestic operations into the ground prior to moving the jobs overseas, as opposed to say, the amounts owed to workers pension funds as stipulated in Contracts.
If the corporations were making enough profit to cover extravagant bonuses for management people, what is the explanation for missing payments for contractual obligations? Contractual obligations, the result of agreements that were not secret?
The market value of the oil that the Oil Companies knew lay ‘undiscovered’ beneath the Iraqi desert. The Oil that they considered a corporate asset, (and our nation’s Strategic Petroleum Reserve, by the way.) as opposed to say, the Iraqi people’s natural resources
The amounts paid to the Defense Department to ensure that no possible source of fear goes unassesed. The amounts required to protect us from those boogies.
The amounts paid for professional Intelligence gathering, Intelligence that our Chief Executive ignored.
The amounts paid to assemble Intelligence that is more to their liking.
The $10 Billion they say they lost in the sand.
Amounts paid to Blackwater mercenaries, how many we will never know. (Amounts four or five times the pay received by Our Troops.)
How would you feel if you were carrying a rifle through the streets of Baghdad for $20K a year, while there were guys with black t-shirts everywhere you looked, making $90K a year, and they could just go home if they wanted.
Amount paid to Blackwater employees to protect us from poor black people in New Orleans, who might afterall decide to steal some of the $8 Billion worth of Blue Tarps our fearless leader, and his buddys say they provided for us.
Untold amounts paid to Blackwater bosses, (A tiny handful of people you can bet.) as stipulated by the conditions of no-bid contracts, the details of which, you will never, ever know.
Then there are the amounts that will evaporate into thin air in the next couple of years, the amount of wealth that will disappear over-night when all the lies are finally found insufficient to cover even the interest on the balance due.
When the leaders of our Pirate Nation finally run us onto the rocks and we maybe, suddenly discover that we’ve had enough of them.
When all of this finally dawns on us.
When the proverbial shit hits the fan, the Sheriff will throw you down your own front steps at the behest of your Landlord or your Banker.
When the proverbial shit hits the fan, your current Health Care Provider will pay a very rude woman to scrape the scabs off your knees with a dull knife, so as to amplify your DNA, and file a Patent Claim on your Unique Genetic Identity, just in case there’s any marketable data in there. (Identity theft.)
When the proverbial shit hits the fan, the Credit Union that owns your car will split your last Electronic-Deposit with the Bank just before the Al-Quieda Virus erases all your bank records.
There is only one small glimmer of light in all this gloom. One glimpse of a silver lining.
After the proverbial shit has hit the fan, I will gladly tell Michelle Malkin how happy I am to see her again, and that no, I do not want fries with that cheeseburger.
I’m going to savor that moment,…
… but it won’t change the fact that BushCo is setting us up for kill, we’re likely going to get control our bankrupt country for a couple of years, just long enough for everything to fall completely apart, and for the lie factory to convince the sheep that it is all the liberal chickenshit tax and spend Democrats fault.
I wish I could be more confident that we won’t believe them.
Watt4Bob said “A moment after we throw BushCo out, they’ll be on TV blaming the Democrats for the lousy economy, the same economy that BushCo left in shambles. The lousy economy that’s been papered over with Phony numbers.”
snip
And Bush will be in Paraguay. Thsi story has been updated to include more info–seen here in a diary at dailykos:
Ressurecting the Bush (Huge) Land-Acquisiton-in-Paraguay Story
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/4/28/2544/07385
No, it is NOT just GOP and the Media, it is the whole cult of deception that comes with the Sales Pitch.
Just like the Tobacco Industry is paying for its transgressions of half a century ago, I see the advertising industry at some point paying its dues for the damage it has done to society.
The time is now that we start recognizing it for what it is: exploitation of the human urge.
The elections gave me hope, yet if there truly is a ’sea of change’, then why the hell is Ruttin’ Rudee winning in recent polls??? For America’s sake, sheeple, COME TO YOUR SENSES!
The reason Rudy was in the streets that day is because he put the emergency operations in an area where he shouldn’t have put it. I wonder if any other 911 survivors are running for president?