
(Photo of dinosaur avec hot pink baggage, long blonde wig and matching feather boa via halliew.)
Lieberman mouthpiece Dangerstein, concern troll extraordinaire, claims that Senator Clinton "invite[d] scorn and hypocrisy" by appearing at FireDogLake for a chat about pay equity:
Gerstein said he understands the Clinton camp wanting to reach out to lots of potential voters, especially women. But given that Clinton, "under the microscope to a much higher degree of scrutiny," Gerstein said, "I don't think this was necessarily a good idea for her." He suggested that Clinton's decision was particularly politically dangerous in light of the senator's vocal criticism of Don Imus after the shock jock's racially demeaning comments about the Rutgers women's basketball players. Clinton could have chosen a blogger with "less baggage," Gerstein said.
But, wait. Didn't Danger say just weeks ago that if Imus lost his show, it would be bad for Democrats? Digby reminds us:
I can hardly believe it. McJoan catches Joe Lieberman's advisor, the civility commissar Dan Gerstein, defending Imus out of a grave concern for the ramifications to the Democratic party.
"This is a real bind for Democrats," said Dan Gerstein, an advisor to one of Imus' favorite regulars, Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.). "Talk radio has become primarily the province of the right, and the blogosphere is largely the province of the left. If Imus loses his microphone, there aren't many other venues like it around."
Dangerstein's right, of course! The American airwaves are sadly empty, now that Lieberman can no longer appear on the baggage-free venue that was Imus:
Lieberman worries, on the Senate floor, that the increasing vulgarity of network TV "is lowering the standards of what we accept on television, particularly in what used to be family programing hours." But he's talking out of both sides of his mouth. This week's moments of supposed humor on Imus, broadcast at an hour when children are rising for school, included a reference to Attorney General Janet Reno in crotchless pantyhose, an interview with Screw Magazine's Al Goldstein and a drunken woman saying "s---" over the air. Teehee. Lieberman is alarmed that some child watching an 8 p.m. TV show might hear the word "hooters." Yet he legitimizes, by his regular presence, a radio show that will fill the child's ears with far more vulgarity, sly racist jokes, gay-baiting and all-around bad taste than the child is ever likely to hear on TV.
Evaluating where any candidate should appear, especially in the rough-and-tumble blogosphere, can be a difficult choice. Like you, I was delighted that Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton accepted Jane Hamsher's invitation to come to the Lake to talk about gender pay equity on Equal Pay Day. And I hope our Democratic Presidential candidates won't start listening to Dangerstein about blog-venues and where to appear. Because, when it comes to baggage, Dangerstein's got an American Tourister matched set. UPDATES:
1. Garance Franke-Rute wonders if Dangerstein is a masochist, and she includes advice on how he can avoid scratching his blog war itch, unless it's too late for that.
And the worst part is that every time he goes after them they fire back with such a volley that I can’t imagine the exchanges do anything but make his Google cache more polluted.
2. Glenn Greenwald challenges Akers on both her sourcing and her attribution:
What much of this is about is a rank, transparent effort to make liberal blogs radioactive to candidates. Journalists like Akers are threatened by the fact that candidates can communicate directly with large numbers of voters without having to go through Washington Post reporters. So they manufacture blog "controversies" by seeking out completely unrepresentative aberrations like Dan Gerstein and pretend that their individual comments are representative of large factions. In reality, people like Gerstein are totally irrelevant figures who represent literally nobody (except, in Gerstein's case, non-Democrat Joe Lieberman). Any stories about alleged "blog controversies" that rely upon Dan Gerstein as a key source are inherently unreliable and worthless. Dan Gerstein hates blogs. That is his identity. It is how he attracts attention. Whenever he criticizes blogs, it is not a story. It does not signify anything other than this.
Glenn also accurately characterizes the Clinton thread, at least the thread I saw happen in real-time:
Clinton then participated in the comment section of the post, responding to questions and comments from FDL's bloggers and readers.
3. "Danny" at National Journal cherry-picks comments from FDL's Clinton thread to support his contention that commentary somehow differed from any Guest Appearance or BookSalon thread where on-topic is the rule:
Critical readers seemed most annoyed by the fact that Firedoglake limited the questions asked of Clinton to the equal pay topic she chose to discuss.
(This one's worth a click if only for a peek at the self-appointed evaluator of who should appear on what blogs. Is somebody still bitter about not being invited to Harlem for lunch?)
Although she won't blame Clinton for Hamsher's blackface disgrace, Althouse criticized Clinton's decision to blog at Hamsher's site. "Firedoglake is a hardcore place, and Clinton doesn't belong there," Althouse said. She also scoffed at the suggestion that Clinton guest-blogged. "The blog is publishing a press release."
4. Just in case you thought MaryAnn Akers was an edgy blogger unconnected to the DeeCee journamilzm clique, BigHeadRob reminds us that she's a RollCall alum betrothed to Michael Isikoff.
-- So, to recap: time for yet another Blogger Ethics Panel focused on what blogs are worthy of candidate appearances. Panelists: MaryAnn Akers, "Danny," Altmouse, and that anonymous Clinton backer with the raised eyebrows. Dangerstein can moderate.
LAST UPDATE: You didn't miss TRex's Late Late Nite "Stalker" post, did you?
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Can’t we get rid of this meddlesome consultant?
Zed!
Ha. Zed!
TEDDY SF!!!
Christy, that pic is the very illustration of “Shock and Odd”
Oh hi, LJ. Nice zed you have there.
Hi Teddy, seems like old times, ragging on Dangerstein. He’s such a target.
Teddy at 5 — I just knew you’d love the photo choice. *g*
Wait till you see my Alphas, honey. ;)
Can you tell that the conversation downstairs was starting to devolve into S-E-X?
Ooh, Scandalous! Bad bloggers! Bad! We’re so incivil!
That picture… TRex, was that you when you went undercover to get those shots of Ghouliani in drag? You sly thing!
A pity. She looks kinda cute in the photo at WaPo. Bit girly for me, though….
Who was that crazy Democrat who spoke at the Repug convention in 2004? That old guy who was a Democrat only in name?
TRex @ 4
Hi TRex —- Is that your boa?
Georgesimian @ 11
Zel Miller?
Georgesimian at 11 — You mean Zell Miller, former Senator from Georgia?
Georgesimian @ 11
Ya mean DINO Zell Miller?
I want to know: Must WaPoO “bloggers” adhere to WaPo journamalizm standards, like calling the subject of your article? Or, do blogging rules apply, where the WaPoO poster responds to commenters who pose legitimate questions about the post? Or, do editors review the threaded comments from readers, as they would a Letter to the Editor requesting a correction?
Or do no rules apply?
If only the WaPo had a reader representative or a public editor, these mysteries could be addressed….
Hi TRex and gang,
I thank you all for tolerating such a babe-in-the-woods late adopter of political bloghopping as myself…so my ignorance will be quite glaring. Here’s goes:
I caught your stalker thingie late last night, so late I thought “Dangerstein” was one of those cute FDL nicknames like “Tweety”. Is that really his name? It’s so super-villain sounding. Like Goodling is ironic.
Texas Betsy @
12
Good heavens no. I’m a manly pouf.
Christy Hardin Smith @
14
Former governor, actually. He was a really good governor, but a few years ago he had a series of strokes and now he’s an arch conservative.
Go figure.
TeddySanFran @
16
The only WaPoo blogger obliged to follow any rules is Froomkin as he’s an “opinion columnist” who says nasty things about Republics. Others, not so much.
do-si-do:
Used to be, Dan Gerstein’s name (and that is his name) required brackets like this [], since the New York Times was obliged to update, with two [paragraphs], a story originally sourced to him during the Summer of Lamont. I’ve dropped the brackets, but his name’s so lovely without punctuation I run it all together.
TRex @ 19
He’s both former Senator and former Governor. Governor first.
luv luv luv the photo of TRex, but something is missing:
Where is Ned the Fighting Koi?
I am s crazy for Ned
Mmmmmm, dripping with irony and satire!
I’m very impressed!
Rock on Teddy!
LJ/Aquaria @
8
Figures I’d miss that! What thread?
OfT:
Harry Reid would like your signature on his Emergency Petition to Stop The Veto.
I’m trying to figure out how it’s bad for a comment thread to stay on topic during a discussion with a politician invited to discuss that issue.
Someone help me out here…
Wow, I’ve never been described as “hardcore”, and didn’t even realize I was hanging out in a “hardcore” place.
I guess I should get out of my “pajamas”, change into leather chaps and a dog collar, and grab a whip. I didn’t realize I was commenting in a hardcore, far left wing place where censorship is king!
So glad to finally have made it to the hardcore. This softcore liberalism was killing me.
Oh, and TSF, Dangerstein may have a lot of baggage, but I seriously doubt he actually has a matched set. More like a oddball collection from KMart or wherever it was on sale at the moment.
Twisted Martini @ 24
It was just getting started. Then this thread opened up. I did get to mention that I wouldn’t be having sex in the dark with this guy. Which I wouldn’t. Mm. Love me some Araporn…
TeddySanFran @ 21
Oh god, and I thought I was good at decoding vanity plates. Thanks Teddy!
LJ/Aquaria @ 27
There were other threads going where people could discuss other topics, yes?
do-si-do @ 16
Hi do-si-do,
He’s actually Dan Gerstein, but who can resist? And he is forever doijng stupid things that make him look silly. No, he keeps doing stupid things because he *is* silly. But the Super Bad Secret Agent name “Dangerstein” is partuclarly cute on him. To read is to snicker.
Matching set of garbage bags maybe…
This just in…
Hardcore USA’s gonna pow-wow.
Morris Sheppard @ 28
Nah, he’d be buying the cheap knockoff Louis Vuitton crap from the back of a truck. We had a lot of his types down on the border that used to buy up that stuff down in Mexico.
I did get a great Chanel rip-off down there, though. $10, and it was just like the one that costs $2K at Neiman’s. And I mean, just like it!
Heh. They’re screaming about blogs, and FDL, and Important Mainstream Political Leaders appearing here. And having to fuss and fight and throw fits about it.
Maybe it’s just living at the beach, but I love it when the tide shifts…
Hi Hotflash,
thanks…yeah, bad superagent. did you catch the video of Hasselhoff singing “Secret Agent Man” right here on FDL a few days back? LMAO.
marksb @ 37
Amen.
TeddySanFran @
26
Done and thanks for posting linky.
marksb @ 36
I think they’re jealous because Hillary doesn’t sit down that long with them to discuss anything. They’re supposed to get all the juicy stuff and filter it for our consumption. Why, if we get our info direct from a candidate, rather through the MSM, then—then—then the MSM would become–IRRELEVANT. :::MSM clutches pearls, faints. Then realizes the bloggers kicked the sofa out of the way so that they fall on their smug asses.::::
dakine01 @ 40
Do you think a petition wil have any effect at all?
If you like that, you’ll LOVE China!!
TeddySanFran @ 25
Just wondering, why is he asking us to do this? Maybe I’m just lazy, but I thought we told our reps what we want, which I have done, and they represent us, according to the Constitution and all. Other than getting Harry a huge e-mail list, what is a petition addressed to Pres Bush going to accomplish? Like George will read it? Petitions are not how things are done here, we have a legislature.
To me it seem like the toy steering wheel they put in shopping carts so the little kids can pretend they’re driving while mom pushes. Helping Mommy!
So Tenet is ripping the Bush administration.
“George J. Tenet, the former director of central intelligence, has lashed out against Vice President Dick Cheney and other Bush administration officials in a new book, saying they pushed the country to war in Iraq without ever conducting a “serious debate” about whether Saddam Hussein posed an imminent threat to the United States.”
And where were you when it counted Mr. Tenet? I don’t recall you resigning in protest. You rank up there with Colin Powell in terms of principles. Going to send your medal back? Your’s is one book that will not be appearing in my coffee table. Nor in the bathroom.
From Texas Betsy:
“Do you think a petition wil have any effect at all?”
No!
This is Stupid Answers to Stupid Questions, volume 48902
Texas Betsy @ 42 asks:
Pro’lly not, but it still let’s us AND them know that there are those of us out here who do care and are paying attention.
do-si-do @ 38
THANK you so much for confirming my vague recognition of Hasselhoff. WHen I saw it I kinda recognized him and said to meself, said I: “Hm. Well if that IS him, then indeed this is most funny.” Silly me. I feel so much better now.
OT: Where are other FirePups? - check out this earlier post to see (and join?) an unofficial map. At this writing, there’s 415 pins! :)
dakine01 @ 47
Pro’lly not, but it still let’s us AND them know that there are those of us out here who do care and are paying attention.
Eggs actly!
HotFlash @ 44
One outcome is he can go to Senators like Cornyn and Hutchison and tell’em “See, these are YOUR constituients saying they agree with me. How come you can’t do what YOUR voters want?” They still won’t pay any attention but it puts ‘em on a bit of notice that they’d better come up with some decent rationales and not the same ol’ gibberish
Morris @ 42.
I’m inclined to buy the real thing, if I really want it (and can afford it), rather than buying knockoffs. For instance, I would never, ever, buy knockoff Pradas. Or a knockoff Chanel suit. But my mom had taken me shopping for my birthday down in Mexico. That little purse was one of the few things that caught my eye, so she bought it for me. I didn’t even know the real thing cost so much until I saw it at Neiman’s later.
Oh dear I’ve been trying so hard to eliminate reptilian Lieberman and Dangerstein from my vocabulary and delicate eyes and ears.
OT - am nearly finished my second reading of recent FDL book salon author Jeffrey Feldman’s fine book FRAMING THE DEBATE. It is truly essential and compelling reading.
For central California Monterey Bay firepups I am proud to announce Jeffrey will be a guest of the Friends of the Stowitts Museum in Pacific Grove on Tuesday, May 8th from 5:30 to 7:30. Admission is free and a reception will follow his presentation. Copies will be available for sale or guests are welcome to bring their own for an author’s signing. Seating is limited and reservations suggested by telephone 831-655-4488 or email the Friends at infoATstowittsDOTorg.
HotFlash @ 44
If you have a Republic Rep, you must know that the Party comes before all else always. You would have an easier time getting a North Korean General to criticise Kim Jong-Il.
AP - President Bush warned Congress Friday that he will continue vetoing war spending bills as long as they contain a timetable for the withdrawal of American troops from Iraq.
Texas Betsy @ 31
There were and we did.
I’m hardcore?? What’s that quote from I’m not ready to make nice?
Still giggling.
Texas Betsy @ 32
Those not chatting w/HRC were on the previous thread, me included. I’ve got no desire to ask her anything.
Kind of taking offense @ the “hardcore” description of FDL. If they want really want hardcore, I can start using my extensive scatalogical vocab I normally keep in check here…
[Mod: they should see the stuff we don’t print]
SOS in MA:
“OT: Where are other FirePups? - check out this earlier post to see (and join?) an unofficial map. At this writing, there’s 415 pins! :) “
I’ve posted my pin…thanks for doing this, it’s a pretty interesting map!
LJ/Aquaria
Left a final note in re: tech school life in my day, in EPU land below .
Hillary Clinton shines in Democratic candidates’ debate
Hillary Clinton emerged as the clear winner from the first debate between the Democratic candidates in the 2008 presidential race - ahead of her main rival Barack Obama - according to those present in the audience.
From today’s Guardian.
Darkine @ 49
Do you ever get the feeling, being here in Texas, that you don’t have any representation in the Senate? It seems like we have to live vicariously through other state’s Senators.
LJ/Aquaria @ 61
I feel that way ALL THE TIME!
I have not changed my opinion of Senator Clinton.
OT and EPU’d, but regardless …
From today’s WaPo’s Capitol Briefing blog:
LJ/Aquaria @ 61
There’s enough of Teddy Kennedy to go around…so please enjoy!
From your Commonwealth fellow Fire Dog.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 54
Great. Then let’s make him do just that.
Make the Pugs vote again and again for endless war without timetables, and make Bush huff and Puff and veto.
The Polls arent going to get any better for him, and the Pugs up for election will get pounded in the ass in ‘08.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 60
I only saw the 2nd half of the debate, but that was not my impression.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 63
Oh, we all know you LOVE her. You have an unwholsome crush on her. Admit it. Her triangulation is HOT!
dakine01 @ 47
Pro’lly not, but it still let’s us AND them know that there are those of us out here who do care and are paying attention.
The petition is going to Bush, not Congress.
I fired off notes to my rep and senators today asking them to vote to over-ride the veto.
Urban Pirate @ 66
Wow! This site is HardCore!
Given the level of passion from the readers of FDL WRT to Hillary, I give her lotsa credit for wading into the Lake. She had to have known how it might have turned out. Conversely, I thought the dirty fucking hippies hanging out here were extremely, ahem, civil.
But now I find out that FDL is a hardcore site! I thought my filters were s’posed to take care of that. *g*
(Well, I guess we do talk about, gasp, breasts once in awhile.)
meep! @ 64
Woo hoo - ya think CSpan might cover this or is that too much to hope for?
Mmmmm. Breasts.
LJ/Aquaria @ 61
That’s why when some of the cr*p starts, I get on the phone to senators in other states where I’ve lived and talk to their people. When the first rumblings about subpoenas from judiciary for Sampson, Goodling, and Abu were coming out, I called Cornyn’s office but also called Kennedy, Shumer, Sessions, Durbin, and others. I have lived in all those states and had no problem stating that I had lived there and still had friends and acquaintances there. Implication is, even though I’m no longer a constitutient, I still talk to those who are.
Every little bit helps.
I don’t think this is an appropriate topic for this blog.
meep! @ 64
Fellow pups can help me out here, but HRC was in pretty good company here at the Lake:
Amb Joe Wilson
John Dean
Howie’s Blue America candidates both before and after election
I’m sure there are more I missed or forgot
Pachacutec @ 75
Which topic? Breasts? Texas senators? Something else?
Brisingamen @ 69
The petition is going to Bush, not Congress.
I fired off notes to my rep and senators today asking them to vote to over-ride the veto.
Harry ain’t dumb. Petition may be going to Bush but I’d bet there will be info gathered about zip code distributions and analysis done on it.
HAHAHAHA! I love it!
Texas senator breasts? Ew.
Dick Cavett on “When the Press Broke Down.”
http://cavett.blogs.nytimes.com/
petedownunder @ 77
John Kerry this week or last.
I think Imus’s firing might actually be bad for Democrats. Talk radio is a farce and the more right wing blowhards that spout off at the mouth the more ultra-conservatives resemble the nutbags that they are.
I missed John Kerry. How was that?
Urban Pirate @ 73
Now you’ve done it!
You’ve gone and upset Ms. Althouse again. That’s just wrong.
To dispel the notion that FDL is hardcore, I resolve to use exclamations like “heavens to betsy,” “jeepers,” and when I’m really, really mad, “FUDGE!”
mc @ 87
Please don’t take my name in vain!
Atikar @ 64
Mmm, thanks. I had a most delicious crush on Teddy through my teen years. ;)
mc @ 87
That’s just fucked up.
Badwater @ 52
I have a very Repub congresswoman, Candace Miller, a most loyal Bushie indeed, and two Dem senators. They all know where I stand because I tell ‘em frequently. If pols can’t read polls I don’t see how a petition that is obviously *not* a representative sample would sway them. GWB won’t read it. So, is Harry wasting *my* time (OJ, only a tiny bit) or his (OK, it’s his staff who are doing it)?
I don’t think this can possibly help, except to make a warm-fuzzy feeling. Like joining hands and saying we believe in fairies. No offense to fairies.
[Got that right. The Margin Faerie]
mc @ 87
Gosh!
cleter @ 85
How about thinking of it as John Kerry missed you.
Thomas @ 84
Which in turn drives drives normal people away in droves. Not too many people want to be associated with that kind of crazy.
Dakine: I answered you back downstairs.
Sen. Chris Dodd, also a Presidential candidate, has also had two separate chats here. And Howie’s list of Blue America candidates is extensive. If I may say, Ms. Akers did little to no research on the blog — as for the “on topic” griping, we did that with Dodd as well and with ever other guest we’ve ever had. It was not new — it’s either that or a free-for-al and I, for one, prefer a conversation with a guest to a pie fight where I learn nothing.
Texas Betsy @ 88
Ah, damn, I already fucked up.
Pachacutec @ 75
* snork! *
Where have I heard that before, polite demurs about appropriate topics for FDL?
Gerstein: “Talk radio has become primarily the province of the right, and the blogosphere is largely the province of the left.”
I’ve heard enough of this nonsense about the Left controlling the blogosphere.
Prepare to release the Blogonators!
[LOL]
cleter @ 81
Hey I am the one who has to take your future president bra shopping this weekend!
Morris Sheppard @ 92
I hate to quote myself but I like Pach’s response better.
Akers is a longtime transmitter of GOP Talking Points. One of Greenwald’s commenters caught her on Tucker Carlson’s show spewing garbage against Pelosi.
Texas Betsy @ 61
I get that too, and I have two Dem senators. One actually responds to my letters as if he has read them, the other sends a form letter that is a stock answer that shows the no one in her office actually read what I wrote. But at least she mostly votes Dem.
Christy Hardin Smith @ 95