
Update: Feel free to liveblog the debate thread here–we were working on a liveblog thread, but it didn't happen.
As Christy pointed out this morning, it's amazing what the threat of subpoenas will do for you (with everyone, that is, except our recalcitrant Secretary of State). But I'd like to make a closely related point. It's also amazing what the threat of subpoenas will do. In the last 24 hours, three of the issues Waxman has been focused on have moved significantly forward, and Waxman has made significant progress in negotiations with Fred Fielding about whether and how Andy Card will be interviewed by the Committee. The three areas of progress are:
RNC Emails
Yesterday morning, the RNC provided Waxman a list of 37 (out of 50) of the people with RNC emails. It also admitted that they had 25 million KB of email data for the 37 individuals in question (that's a lot of emails). And finally, they revealed that they had engaged a computer forensics firm to scan Karl Rove's hard drive.
These efforts include retaining a leading, nationally-known computer forensics firm, Stroz Friedberg, LLC, to provide advice and technical support. Over the last several days, Stroz Friedberg imaged several RNC-owned computers and blackberries that are currently being used by White House employees.
Okay–they didn't mention Karl by name. But if you're going to focus on just "several" people's data, you'd think Karl would be at the top of that several, wouldn't you?
Of course, all of this was an attempt to avoid having to turn over the shady emails that Waxman doesn't yet know about–but Waxman didn't buy it. So they still subpoenaed the RNC for basic information on the RNC email use.
As a result, I am asking the Committee to approve this subpoena. It asks the RNC to provide answers to basic questions about the use of RNC e-mail accounts by White House officials, such as a list of which officials uses these accounts and how many e-mails they sent and received. The deadline is two weeks.
It also asks the head of the RNC, Mike Duncan, to appear before the Committee in two
weeks to testify about these matters, Depending on the kind of response the Committee receives
from the RNC in the interim, I will consult with the members about whether the Committee will
need to proceed with this hearing.
I like that last bit–subpoenaing Mike Duncan to appear before the committee. I imagine that'll persuade Mr. Duncan to be a little more forthcoming with information about those emails.
Hatch Act Violations
Meanwhile, in what I assume was a similar attempt to forestall a subpoena (and probably a response to Jeffrey Smith's reporting), the White House admitted it had held "informational briefings about the political landscape" at 20 government agencies. Big surprise–those agencies include several that have been accused of unfairly helping Republicans or hurting Democrats in their duties, such as DHS/FEMA's preferential treatment of Mississippi at the expense of Democratically governed Lousiana after Katrina. You think maybe there's a connection between Rove, asking agency heads to consider how they can help get Republicans elected, and agency policies that help get Republicans elected? Nahhh.
Once again, though, Waxman did not get distracted by shiny objects; after all, he had asked more generally about emails referring to the use of government resources to get Republicans elected. So the RNC got a second subpoena, this time looking for more information on potential Hatch Act violations.
As a result, I am asking the Committee to approve this subpoena. The subpoena asks the
RNC to provide the e-mails described above. It also asks for several previously requested
documents, including policies and procedures regarding the use of the RNC e-mail accounts, and
communications from federal entities regarding the preservation, storage, or destruction of emails.
Honestly, I suspect this subpoena is designed to bunge up the RNC works, because there's no way they'll completely comply with the subpoena (they're not going to admit to all the ways Rove has used the RNC servers to talk about using government resources to establish a one-party state). But this subpoena will be something we can refer back to when we get new revelations of how BushCo used the RNC server to serve Rove's ends.
MZM's Contracts
The most interesting–and least reported–development relates to Waxman's attempt to get the White House to turn over information on MZM's contract with the White House. MZM, you'll recall, was one of Mitchell Wade's companies for which he was bribing Duke Cunningham in exchange for government contracts. It's very first federal contract provided services of some kind to OVP–though those services have been variously referrred to as a furniture contract, service to scan mail for anthrax contamination, or (most recently), a service to scan email for threats (huh. we're talking about email again). The contract is interesting for two reasons (in addition to the confusion about the services rendered). First, it pretty transparently paid for Duke Cunningham's boat, the Dukestir. And second, MZM went on to provide key services tied to spying on Americans.
There were two developments on this front yesterday. First, in response to Waxman's subpoena threat, the White House turned over to Waxman two hundred pages of documentation on the original MZM contract. And perhaps more interesting, the Department of Defense announced it was discontinuing a program associated with MZM's spying contract (hat tip Laura Rozen).
Less than two weeks after being sworn in as undersecretary of defense for intelligence, James R. Clapper Jr. is moving to end the controversial Talon electronic data program, which collected and circulated unverified reports about people and organizations that allegedly threaten Defense Department facilities.
[snip]
Talon — which stands for Threat and Local Observation Notices — is operated under the direction of the Counterintelligence Field Activity, which was established in September 2002 by then-Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul D. Wolfowitz. CIFA was originally charged with coordinating policy and overseeing the domestic counterintelligence activities of Pentagon agencies and the armed forces.
The agency's size and budget are classified, but congressional sources have said that CIFA had spent more than $1 billion through last October. One counterintelligence official at that time estimated that CIFA had 400 full-time employees and 800 to 900 contractors working for it.
Last August, CIFA Director David A. Burtt II and his top deputy, Joseph Hefferon, resigned in the wake of a scandal involving CIFA contracts that went to MZM Inc., a company run by Mitchell J. Wade. Wade pleaded guilty in February 2006 to conspiring to bribe then-Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham (R-Calif). [my emphasis]
You see, in my more speculative moments, I have wondered whether MZM's domestic spying contracts were the most urgent reason for Carol Lam's firing. How curious then, that just as the White House turns over documentation on the original MZM contracting, Defense announces it will end the more egregious domestic spying program?
It's just one of those coinkydinks that subpoena power seems to produce.
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Wax!
Rootz
Marcy!
WAXMAN!
Hey Marcy.
Waiting for your next book.
Might be able to visit late May.
Obama, abortion decisions not made lightly. I trust women to make the decision.
egregious @
5
Ut oh, I’m thinking of CT in late May–when were you thinking?
Marcy – in your first para do you mean “recalcitrant” I don’t think incalcitrant is a word. This guy doesn’t think so either. Now to read the rest of the post
Do we blog debate here or down below?
{{{{{{{{Marcy!}}}}}}}
{{{{{{{Henry!}}}}}}}
{{{{{{{subpoenas!}}}}}}}
Marcy, I want to read this, know it will be great, after the debate. Is it okay here or no?
Marcy, do you do book signings in Michigan?
emptywheel @ 6
I might be in NYC in late May…
Marcy, I am waiting for the rest of the Anatomy trilogy…
Anatomy of Deceit
Anatomy of Delete
Anatomy of Defeat
Even if Waxman only gets ten percent of all the hinky shit these guys have pulled it should be enough to do some of them in.
IMO.
Bustednuckles @ 14
That would take at least five years.
petedownunder @ 8
Yup, and you know what? When I looked up recalcitrant today to make sure I was using it right, I didn’t notice I had written incalcitrant. That’s why this blogging this is so excellent. Thanks.
Waxman is going to need a staff of thousands to keep track of all the scandals. He’ll need a couple of hundred process servers just for the subpoenas. Go Waxman.
dakine01 @ 9
Here’s fine–we were working on a debate thread but it didn’t happen.
emptywheel @ 7
Totally flexible. Go for the CT thingie.
Marcy – sorry to have nit picked, but you do such great work I did not want to distract with a weird word. You really are the best.
A thing we’ve been klicking around is, what happens to Condi? She’s said she won’t show up to testify, and it was suggested that she has exec immunity (don’t think that was verified). So, what if she won’t show?
Also, wrt Ms Monica, I know they can put her in custody if she won’t talk, but what if she lies? And who will decide if she is lying?
Thank you for your wisdom and persistence, you are a goddess.
petedownunder at 18
Waxman is going to need a staff of thousands to keep track of all the scandals.
And what do you call us?
Henry ought to be considered for a FDL interview. Though he tends to avoid self-publicity, maybe he can be convinced by the strength of our hero worship.
But yeah, isn’t it interesting that coinkydink?
As gas just hit an all-time record high in OR today, I wish there was someone subpoenaing oil company and refinery CEOS…
Tell us who are at work without TV about the debate, please! There goes another billable hour down the drain!
Richardson, VTech gun issue: consolidences, 2nd amendment precious. Mental illness is a problem. Background checks should be mandatory and universal.
Thanks Marcy:
To Richardson you are the favorite of NRA did anything amke you rethink you position on guns?
Richardson: Tradgedy: I am a westerner but vast majority of gun owners are law-abiding. People with mental illneses should not get a gun. Must have instant background checks. There should be adequate MH care.
W: Gov R, you’re leading all candidates in NRA rating? How do you feel on this?
R: Background check. Mental health not treated same so need mental health parity so schools
Kevin Hayden @ 24
howdy kevin!! ….waving madly!!
Biden, what we should do about guns: gun show loophole, focus on mental illness, teachers/schools should be able to take sick kids off campus.
Bravo, EW, is it it crossposted to TNH? You and Josh have been talking about MZM. I would love to see if Waxman releases the 200 Doc.’s for our perusal!!!
“Who here has a gun in the house?”….oh for christ’s sake
egregious @ 23
You know that’s true – the blogs provide the same power as SETI uses thousands of home computers to listen for LGMs (Little Green Men). The amazing speed of the review of the various docu dumps demonstrated that. Plus among the readers there is someone who knows almost anything we need to know. A new force in the world.
Edwards: repeal tax cuts for rich to pay for healthcare-not much substance in questions. Go Edwards!
Edwards: get rid of Geo. bush tax cuts for all making over 200k per. Proud to have universla health plan. Have responsibility to american people to tell what ya gonna do. Requires employers to cover all, gives choice to people, no pre-existing conditions banned.
Marcy!
Obama: Black infant mortality is going up
Epu’d:
Biden: Dangerous writing is reason to deny civil rights!
Baraqck: Cover everybody, control costs, black infant mortatlity going up which is unacceptable. reduce permiums.
Whoo Hoo,
Obama calls the tax payers his boss. Why don’t those same taxpayers have the same medical care available?
selise @ 29
Hi Selise! Hope you’re keeping the Northeast quadrant fully medicated so they’ll all vote Dem!
Waxman is doing a fantastic job, all very exciting stuff.
One thing I’m noticing is that my hometown fishwrap, the LA Times, hasn’t written a sentence about Waxman and his mojo, outside of the most basic reports on his activities. Not a feature, not a follow-up, and nothing to suggest that the longtime Los Angeles congressman has finally been unleashed and is leading the takedown of the Bush junta. I guess I blame myself for not yelling and screaming that he deserves more recognition.
And I come back, once again, to the FDL question: do the 200 new oversight investigators/lawyers/workers all work for Waxman? How is possible for SlowJoe to be doing absolutely nothing with the “govt affairs” committee in the shadow of Waxman, along with Leahy? Why can’t Broder be writing about this, instead of moronic statements about Harry Reid? If Reid is doing anything wrong it’s not that he’s standing up to Bush and Cheney, but that he’s not punting Lieberfascist the hell off the Senate’s oversight committee.
Can’t just one of the FDL intellijentsia chat about this and connect a few dots? I’m ready to beg…
PLEASE….a question on presidential power
Richardson – you are the most strident to not raise taxes.
Richardson: I would have a health care plan: no new beuracracy. All share with Bus. state, fed. The first thing we do is deal with Beurocracy and inefficencies 31% of costs go to inefficiencies. Need sharing information. Eliminate HMAs. Focus on prevention.
Hillary: All ideas presented need to get out to public. I do have experience in setting up plans which were initially accepted but then big everything got involved.
Cover everybody but improve quality. Work within current system
Richardson perhaps most strident about not raising taxes to pay for this
R: I deal with this everyday as Gov. Guns too. In my new healtcare plan, no new bureaucracy, focus on prevention, deal with bureaucracy and inefficiencies in current. needs to be fixed. need to re-establish dr patient relationship eliminate hmo and health plans in middle.
I like the pic…..do believe Wax is the cutest bald man since Yul Brynner…..
Warrantless wiretaps? Mil commissions? unit exec theory? signing statements?
I had all but forgotten this, so maybe others have as well. Karl Rove was put in charge of Katrina reconstruction. At the time I don’t think any of us thought it was more than a way for Rove to run political damage control for letting New Orleans drown, and a poor job of that he did.
Now it seems it was likely a cover for the Hatch Act-violating activities inside DHS, FEMA and wherever else. Rove’s job was to steal elections, not do anything for people who needed help. I suppose they figured if Rove was in charge that’d justify why he was sniffing around government offices.
Oversight Committee Asks Agencies for Information on Political Presentations
Following media reports that at least 20 political briefings were given to officials of at least 15 federal agencies, Chairman Waxman writes to government agencies requesting further information and documents about any briefings mentioning elections or candidates provided to agency employees by officials in the White House.
Waxman site and list of Department receiving letters
Obama: confederate flag should be put in a museum
oddmommy @ 46
*sniff* but you haven’t seen MY cute bald head (with luxurious handle bar mustache – think John L Sullivan, not Snidely Whiplash) *g* :})
RonD @ 47
torture, habeas corpus, gitmo, rendition, black sites?
Gravel: I’m senior statesman hear so why am I feeling like a potted plant?
Kevin Hayden @ 24
let me second, and third that!
i think everyone knows that the
busy, busy fella’ (waxman) also sent
several agency heads hatch act
nastygrams today — based on
wa po and nytimes reports of 15/20
violative agency “briefings” — go ahead;
take a look. you know you want to.
and — it goes without saying — i love
every word of this post, marcy — he is
the man! so — “subpoenas are like high-
colonics” [my mama said. . .] they do get
things a-movin’. . .
Question was what is biggest personal political mistake made.
selise @ 52
Nooooo, we get haircuts and hillary-hate
Zhiv, that is such a travesty, a hometown hero leading an epic charge and being dissed! My hometown paper has had numerous glowing accounts of Waxman!
only giving 20 secs per to answer and I ain’t that fast.
Biggest mistake and made you better:
Kusinich: Mayor of Cleveland I fired Polcie chief on 6 oclock news
Clinton: Don’t have enough time for all m mistakes: Health care.
Obama: My wife has a long list. When first in Senate a debate about Schivo; we allowed Congress to intrude where it should not be.
Biden: Overestimating the conpedence of Bush
Edwards: War vote
puppethead @ 48
Excellent point. That would be the crowning height of Rove’s glory–overseeing Hatch Act violations that deprived NOLA of first responder attention.
The Patriot Act sure makes me feel safer.
Almost over….and it positively SUCKED
Hillary’s biggest mistakes, healthcare and trusting Bush to let inspectors through the UN do their work before Iraq war.
Edwards, war vote.
Richardson, too aggressive, wants change too fast.
puppethead @ 48
Could explain why Jozo reneged on subpoenas out of his Homeland Sec Comm wrt Katrina WH docs, etc.
Biggest mistake? believing Bush.
solai @ 62
Going to 7:30 per my tv then post debate analysis til 11 cdt
solai @ 62
Geez. Really?
Something needs to be done about Debate format. I didn’t even watch and I can tell you it doesn’t serve democracy.
oddmommy @ 46
Cuter than Captain Picard?
To Biden: We don’t go for advanced degrees like others, Fix that?
Biden: smaller class size. Play teacher alot
dakine01 @ 66
Maybe it will get better….I’ll keep watching
Brain drain in math and science:
Biden, we need best teachers, BETTER TEACHER PAY.
One of the debaters did not disappoint me. That is to say I got pretty much what I expected.
FYI: Baghdad loses its greatest blog voice.
Think it has 1.2 hour to go
citizen asks dodd if he needs to pee in bottle for job, shouldn’t welfare folks need to do so?
Dodd says: over tested now. not a good thing.
Okay, here’s one…why is gas so high?
solai @ 70
prolly won’t but will watch anyway.
Oil windfall, why prices so high?
Edwards, invest in clean alternative sources of energy. Ask Americans to be patriotic about something other than war.
Edwards: (re: energy) We need to ask Americans be patriotic about something other than war.
solai @ 76
One word: Collusion!
To K: Am middle class but can’t afford healthins. What are you doin”
K: I still live in a little house: premiums and co-pays too much. Universal not-for profit healthcare.
Questions from every-day citizens are much better than brian’s
Kevin Hayden @ 73
Thanks for that Kevin.
Kucinich: problem in health care sys is co-pays and premiums
Now trying to limit answers to one snetence: What is first thing to do first day.
HotFlash @
14
lather, rinse, repeat!
Name first thing first day:
R; get out of Iraq; second energy dependant; third climate change; 4th day take off.
Williams: Good bye to local stations, wll continue on MSNBC
NBC over the ari stations in SC are leaving, staying on msnbc
I should have watched Night of the Living Dead instead.
-GSD
dakine01 @ 51
sorry dude……should’ve said bald heads I’ve SEEN…… : )
Beer o’clock on the left coast.
solai @ 76
Hugh’s iron laws on energy prices:
Rule 2: Gas prices are always manipulated, always.
On first day in Oval office, what is first thing you’d do.
Richardson- out of Iraq. Renewable energy.
ALL OF THIS CARRIED OF MSNBC WEBSITE.
Non-iraq foreign policy
oddmommy @ 89
werks ;})
Hugh @ 91
what’s rule #1?
solai @ 82
No surprise there. Nice to see they’re being included. Is it too much to hope for a debate exclusively devoted to questions from Americans?
do you stnad by remark about no one suffering more than paletinina people?
Barack: give the whole quote, i said that plus from the palestinian leaders.
I want Rove called to answer quesions under oath. Get this guy and we’ll get the rest.
mrsmarks @ 96
Wouldn’t that be a blog?
Obama:don’t take me out of context.
The mention of Rove’s role in Katrina reconstruction, to use the term loosely, ought to be something Waxman could use to get KKKarl in front of him. It would be as embarassing a thing as you could find for making KKarl and Bush look like two clowns.
Williams is really showing bias….or am I so biased I see it where none exists. He asked Obama why hi didn’t mention Israel as important ally in follow up question
Biden: NK a threat.
Need to jettison pre-emption as doctrine regime change and open dialogue with these people.
Kevin Hayden @ 72
I can’t really be sad about that. I kinda want her to stay alive.
selise @ 95
Rule 1: Crude oil prices and gas prices are not directly coupled.
solai @ 102
No, he’s really showing biases.
Not a single question on what to do about the Israeli-Palestinian situation.
Gravel!
Gravel: Iraq has never been a threat Military industrial complex controls the govt!!!
Blank Kludge @ 63
Exactly! That’s some dot-connecting. I guess we forgot about Rove and Katrina because he did such a heckuva job. Seems he spent more time and money getting Lieberman elected–by saying that he would get into Katrina oversight–and Lieberman’s payback has been doing “RepubOversight,” i.e. nothing.
Klassic Karl. Now I get it, but I still want more.
Gavel. Military Industrial complex controls us lock, stock, and barrel. This guy is pissed!
dakine01 @ 106
How about him asking Gavel who’s America’s enemies are “other than Iraq” !!!!
I’m a little worried about Scott Bloch’s investigation. Is there any way that he can embargo documents or offer immunity for testimony that would either interfere with Congressional or criminal investigations into the issues surrounding violations of the Hatch Act (firings of US Atty’s, etc.)?
Will this give the WH a change to stall by saying “those documents are not in our hands, they are with the Special Consul, ask him.” And Bloch says “We’re still studying the documents so you’ll have to wait until we are completed with our report.”
That would mean that this is just another method of stonewalling, no?
Russia has been in news of late. Friend or foe
Edwards: opposition squashed. fair amount of time on these issues overseas ssince last election. How do we maintain our strength. Need to restore moral grounds and lead and show commitment to humanity
cinnamonape @ 113
yes
Edwards “world has to see America as a force for good again”
Bush looked into the soul of Putin: didn’t quite work out what would you do diff?
Richardson: Would decide what’s in it for us.
Brian Williams – busted by Obama trying to pass off a misleading “half quote” about the Palestinian people and attribute it to Obama. Brian Williams, what a scum bag.
For the guy with the best resume, Richardson doesn’t seem ready for primetime and he keeps going over time.
cinnamonape @ 113
IANAL but reading from those who are, it is doubtful. Most he can do is a limited referral. Congress cna trump him and probably ignore, if he has docs, force him to make copies.
Brian Williams has Rush Limbaugh’s hand up his ass.
-GSD
Richardson: What about Darfur?
hey, RG! how you doin?
O gawd, williams just pulled out rudy and called him”good friend” of hillary. I guess he forgets y2k.
richardson: “Why is it that America doesn’t care about Africa (Darfur)”?
he’s doing quite well. followed, I think, by Obama, then Edwards.
just my opinion.
To Clinton Guilini said “dems do not understand scope of terrorist war we’d be safer w/Repugs; how did that notion happen?
Clinton: I’ve been working w/Bush to do the right things: they haven’t; there’s a disconnect between what people think and truth: we have open bordersd. Bush had hyped the fear without making us safer.
Hillary is the best at slipping into her stump speech, regardless of the actual question.
RagingGurrl @ 117
Not watching, but in the wake of Moyers it seems like the candidates wouldn’t let the press/Williams manipulate them.
TeddySanFran @ 119
Richardson hasn’t been doing the sound bite circuit for a while.
Clinton re: Guliani’s statement this week.
I’ve worked since 9/11. disconnect between rhetoric and reality. No delivery of promises from this administration.
I have never sworn in any of my comments…ever.
But, this is ridiculous and so I say:
FUCK YOU BRIAN WILLIAMS
Williams: Sen. Dodd, how is it this label has been attached to the Democrats — that the Republicans can make America safer?
Me: Because guys like you keep repeating it.
Brian Williams, re: Democrats soft on terrorism—that myth has been propagated by a sucky, compliant media and a Whitehouse with a massive propaganda machine.
-GSD
zhiv @ 128
Don’t think they are. They’re answering quesitons but slapping Williams every now and then as well.
TeddySanFran @ 127
Somebody who’s been doing the sound bite circuit too long.
What’s with these stupid show of hands questions?
Kuchinich: We should reject war as an instrument of policy.
Kuchinich- War on terror pretext for aggressive war. The world is waiting for American leader that wants diplomacy.
I know Kos doesn’t like him much — but I am impressed with Dennis Kucinich and I wonder if others will be today as well.
To call that thing on MSNBC a debate is absolutely ridiculous. Laughable.
New lobbying group-debate fans for Jim Lehrer
GWOT – who put up their hands and who didn’t?
(i’m listening via cspan radio stream)
solai @ 131
Huzzah!
-GSD
Kucinich not voting in show of hands that there is a GWOT. Williams: Why? Kucinich, all the other problems like nukes and dealing with all the nations we don’t talk to.
dakine01 @ 120
“I have limited staff”…”I need to vet the documents for relevancy”…
Yet another layer of bureaucracy to gum up the works.
BTW how do 30 people produce 30 Gigabites of emails??? In their “off hours”??? Are the folks in the WH using the RNC computers for generating VI^gR^ spam ads?
Kucinich – doesn’t believe there is a World-wide War on terror. “It’s a pretext”
A Pach reader?
Haven’t paid full attention to this debate– don’t think anyone’s either been blown out or gotten a leg up in this thing. They don’t sound very different from one another. The guy from Alaska’s a breath of fresh air- still like Richardson and Edwards- Obama is smooth a silk and Hillary has a very irritating voice.
selise @ 142
Appears only Kucinich didn’t raise hand
Williams plays the terror card (what if two cities were bombed while we stood here today)
HowTF did the Democrats let Brian Williams moderate, anyway? He’s, like, to the right of Fox News.
selise @ 142
Kucinich didn’t. Neither did I.
On Hillary’s performance thus far: no comment.
Kevin Hayden @ 24
ME TOO. $2.54 yesterday for regular (SF Bay Area). Smells like what happened a few years ago with rolling blackouts, which turned out to be largely engineered by Enron and co. Reasons I’ve seen quoted are (1) refineries are switching to summer mixture (I think this should have happened in about February?), (2) refineries are down for maintenance (all at the same time?), and (3) refinery profits are up. Duh?
to Obama: if we find out that 2 cities were hit and we knew it was alQueda – how would you change stance overseas?
Review how we operate during natural disaster and attack. Need good intelligence. Do we have intelligence on who carried it out. What we can’t do is alienate the world community based on faulty intell.
TeddySanFran @ 123
Aight! Howyoudoin?
Obama, we can’t make the mistakes Bush made. (As if they were mistakes and not intentional.)
cinnamonape @ 145
Wax can say: We’ll send some staff to help our fellow investigators (with semi-evil grin)
TeddySanFran @ 148
And then raped!
Hugh @ 151
that does it. i’ll support either kucinich or hugh for pres. preferably hugh.
Eli @ 158
Trying for a dukakis on death penalty moment.
TeddySanFran @ 136
It makes them look like kids in class. Brian is getting off on it.
Bastardo.
Hey EW,
Your favorite Barbara Comstock. Between her and Victoria I think they have the scumbag client list all sown up!
CREW on Rep. Lewis:
CREW LINK
Eli @ 158
And left for dead by the side of the road by Willie Horton!
Re: GWOT — We have more tools available to us than bombs.
Good answer.
Ach! Hil plays the 9/11 card.
Clinton, I understand the horror. Retaliate swiftly. Doesn’t mean looking for other enemies.
Hil: Afghanistan good, Iraq bad, Bush idiot, Bin Laden still out there.
You can’t have a “debate” with this many people in it. Don’t think anyone’s learning much about anyone.
Clinton: Having been a senator during 9/11 I understand the horror (we don’t??)Move as swiftly as prudent to retaliate. If we are sure who it is; quickly respond. i supported Bush in Afghanistan and when he diverted to Iraq I would not have done it as Pres. We still don;t have binLaden
Another show of hands — who will join Dennis to impeach Cheny?
TeddySanFran @ 163
Then forced into a gay marriage.
-GSD
Anyone else on board to impeach cheney? Nobody raised their hand.
No one voted to join Kucinich on impeach darth
Hillary’s certainly not covering herself in glory. Or even seeming likeable.
And why the question about terrorists attacking two cities at once, Brian? Project fear much?
rwcole @ 167
Naw, it’s just American Idol, the Democratic candidate version.
Kucinich pulls out constitution and uses it to offer a primer.
That’s it. I’m sending Kucinich another twenty.
Kucinich re: impeach Cheney: we were taken into war based upon lies. Ginning up war on Iran. We have to defend the constitution.
Kuchinich, protect this constitution. I want to reconnect America with all the good stuff.
Mr. Williams, I am asking the FDL blogging community for a show of fingers for your performance.
-GSD
dakine01 @ 172
i did.
Was the mail scan on regular mail coming into Democrat’s mailboxes, I wonder? Good way to blackmail.
Dodd asked if difference between gay marriage and civil unions since CT has passed civil union laws
Chris Dodd just outed his pre-pubescent daughters!
-GSD
Loo Hoo @ 178
that was a really good answer.
Dodd, Civil unions are appropriate, no same sex marriage.
loving this…Kucinich talks about Cheney.
Any diff between gay marriage and civil unions?
Dod: Proud that Conn has signed civil unions. don’t support same sex marriage.
spurious @ 153
$3.29 at Chevron here. Last year’s peak was $3.26
And I don’t buy the peak oil talk. This is all about the war, profiteering and cronyism. How can they justify $1.20 increase since February?
rwcole @ 167
Well…not anybody here. But for folks whose primary source of political info is Hard Ball or some such, this is their first real look at most of these candidates.
GSD @ 179
birds are flying all over
Williams plays the terror card (what if two cities were bombed while we stood here today)
And then raped!
And left for dead by the side of the road by Willie Horton!
Then forced into a gay marriage.
With illegal aliens.
spurious @ 153
Crude oil inventories are up. The supply is not flowing through the refineries so gas inventories are going down and gas prices up. It is very much a play using the refineries to create an artificial bottleneck and distortion in the system.
We’re in the twilight zone, boys and girls. Brian Williams is quoting Tom Friedman
selise @ 184
Reminded me of Byrd with his pocket constitution. Nothing wrong with every elected leader carrying one of those around.
Biden talking FAST to get his points in
selise @ 159
LOL, thanks.
GSD @ 179
I’m voting right now. Actually, been voting all night
Richardson answering the bomb 2 cities quesiton in “presidential” manner?
TeddySanFran @ 191
And then raped!
And left for dead by the side of the road by Willie Horton!
Then forced into a gay marriage.
With illegal aliens.
Go, Teddy, Go!!!
Biden, Do what FRIEDMAN has been talking about. Clean air stuff.
Richardson, re: Fidel Castro-Find ways to deal with a democratic Cuba, bring people in, visitation okay. Plan for a post Castro cuba.
I think Richardson just sank badly with this performance and his answers. Too bad, i kinda liked him before tonight
I am very impressed with our field.
I am least impressed with Richardson and Obama’s performance.
I am most impressed with Kucinich.
I am very glad Gravel is there.
I wish Edwards would relax a little.
HotFlash @ 174
Who gets voted off?
the more I think about the “bombing of two cities at once” question, the angrier I get.
TeddySanFran @ 202
Agreed about Richardson
Gravel is rising in my estimaiton quite high.
It’d be great if this debate raises Kucinich’s poll ratings. There’s a lot of the country who’d love to see Cheney tarred, feathered and imprisoned in Abu Ghraib with a guy named ‘Slash’ as his bunkbuddy.
Uh-oh — Gravel wants us all to get offa his lawn. He’s all over the place now.
TeddySanFran @ 202
v. good summary. agreed.
may i add that williams sucks?
Gravel: we’re gonna be as successful with war on Terrorism as we have been with war on drugs.
GSD @ 179
I got one.
Gravel, I denied the Viet Nam draft. On the Iraq war, we are mischaractising war on terror like we are the war on drugs.
bin Laden happy we invaded Iraq.
Q: What have you do in personal life to improve environment?
Eli @ 150
I’m just reading here…and have thought that since the Edwards’ haircut shot. Maybe the Dems SHOULD consider Fox for a debate. ‘Fairer and balanceder’than this wouldn’t be too hard.
I only took one upper level Comm class. The one lesson that still sticks is that it is easier to create a negative first impression on an uminformed target audience. This could be Rove’s intent; dissaffeced R voters (Rudy Mccain? No way! Oh…wait. These idiots are worse…)
And even the ‘rest of us’ Dems and Indy’s, who think B.Williams is fair/balanced.
Will he ask them when they stopped beating their wives? Well, Hillary’s answer is discounted already, soooo…..
Obama, we plant trees, then Brian cued him to remember the lightbulbs.
TeddySanFran @ 207
BWA HA HA – Stop it, I’ve got 7 more minutes of blogging.
TeddySanFran @ 207
Admiral Stockdale…
They’re all answering the questions they wanted to get not what they were asked.
GSD
How do you make a single finger using text?
Zee @ 210
Ditto, the middle one!
Kucinich calling out “all options” — we need to move away from war for oil.
Kuchinich, move away from global warming and warring.
Kucinich calling out Obama on war for oil!
Here’s how I’d have answered Rush-lover William’s two-cities question:
The role of government and how it responds to disasters and threats needs to be based on careful analysis of intelligence and effective preparedness, not some script from dubious TV shows. Do you have any other fantasy scenarios to ask about?
Williams is disgusting. But then again, I don’t think I’d ever want to be president.
And now for something completely different:
Comey to testify on prosecutor purge next week
Hillary hasnt answered any questions yet. She pontificates. I’d like to like her but I dont.
Edwards gives detailed answers and Richardson, while I like what he says is so tense.
Gravel’s great. But he’s older than the oldest Presidents (Reagan, Harrison) and older than McCain.
And saner than all of those old farts.
NO one is staying on time or point.
Nobody wants to be the PEACE candidate but Kucinich and Gravel.
Kucinich has it right. It’s about oil. Obama? Give me a break. Same for Hillary.
TeddySanFran @ 228
HEAR HEAR!!!
Re fingers: iiIii
What’s the point of this “debate” anyway. Election’s too far away for this now.
oh shit. Obama gettin’ all anti-Iran.
Gravel’s a riot!
Gravel, we sanctioned Iraq for 25 years, then suddenly they are enemy. Why expand nuclear weapons. Who are we going to nuke?
Kevin Hayden @ 226
I just remarked to my husband: Gravel is the liberal id!
obama -
iran is getting a nuke? no one doubts that?
biggest sponsor of global terror?
huh? obama is nuts. or i misheard.
Gravel, Good point! Who are we gonna Nuke? Iran?
lovin’ Gravel!
Sorry if I missed it, but is the debate being webcast somewhere? Or is it over? Can’t find anything on the tv.
Spiratual leader:
Edwards, can’t identify one, god, wife, father.
Morality and responsibility.
Zee @ 232
It may give some of the lower tier a voice.
Who do you consider your moral leader
Edwards: no one specific, my lord for prayer everyday, my wife such a great person, my father who gave me my values those gave me views on morality.
Edwards blows it on the moral leader thing.
spurious @ 240
I’m watching msnbc
Ragingurrl, does this work?
m|m
spurious @ 240
cspan radio
Iran is allied with hommous. I falafel about this.
-GSD
Zee @ 232
It’s for the 2012 election, right? Can never start too soon.
I walmart good or bad?
Clinton: mixed blessing: brought good into rural burt as they grew bigger they had bigger questions re: resp of big corp.
Wow, Edwards shook me with that moral leader question.
Then Brian went to Hill about WalMart: Good or bad for USA?
GSD @ 179
I got two fer B.W. right here. Though donating will detract about 20 percent from my otherwise brilliant typing…but worth the sacrifice!
Oklahoma kiddo @ 244
I’ll see him at the CA Dem state convention sunday.
Sen Clinton: Overall is walmart good or bad for america?
Hilliary: was good when small town and starting in arkansas but have grown too big. Part of this admin and big bidness screwing average people.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 244
Hummanah, hummanah.
-GSD
Clinton, Walmart is a mixed blessing. Good at first for opportunities. As they grew, they needed to show leadership and responsibility in how it should work for America.
Admin and corporate elite need to step up and be responsibility.
Probably Obama will be the most likely to gain from the debate. Those who come across as pacifists will NEVER win- even if they are correct.
Hillary blows, I mean sucks, I mean not literally, oh forget it.
I’m eagerly awaiting the day HRC gives a straight answer.
Do I get brownie points for being around the other day when she was here and keeping my mouth shut?
spurious @ 240
MSNBC is supposed to be!
Back to subpoenas; Waxman and Tom Davis were on Lou Dobbs. Davis whining about Dems trying to bankrupt RNC. Legal bills, I assume.
Hillary did a wonderful job irt Walmart. Mixed bag…Bushco not seeing problems of middle class
Biden: You are looking at a bunch of winners on this stage!
What would make a good “moral leader” answer?
Biden, wrong if they think Clinton can’t win.
Tough as nails Biden…..cut the shit.
-GSD
Hugh @ 231
Thanks! I need to know how to do this. I’ll be using it often until 2008 ;-)
rwcole @ 257
i have not been impressed by obama tonight.
THE END; Beer thirty – seriously
Now if they can avoiod having williams spouting his gibberish during the analysis. Bad enough to have tweety sititng with keith but no williams I hope.
Biden better than I expected.
Mr. Gore, please run.
OVER! Kissing and hugging all around. KO back on.
Republicans are tanking so naturally they talk about the “extinction” of the Democratic Party. Fair and balanced, I guess.
notimetowaste @ 258
Too. many. jokes.
jayt @ 259
You and OK Kiddo both.
jayt @ 259
Yes, you do.
all eyes on michelle o
Edwards got the “Do you love Jesus?” question. The ONLY answer- of course- is YES!- but Edwards tried to soften it a bit- probably didn’t please anyone but didn’t hurt himself much either.
Keith should have moderated this thing, not Brian Williams.
(I busted my a** trying to get home to watch this?! kind of a snooze overall IMO)
rwcole @ 257
Why not? Who’s gonna be voting?
Tweety thinks Hill did well, then got SHARP in her voice.
How come K.O. couldn’t have been the moderator?
HotFlash @ 246
Good too. Thank you.
snowbird42 @ 264
I think its too personal for a candidate to answer honestly.
Kevin Hayden @ 188
Last fall gas prices fell till the day before the election; then there was an announcement that prices had ’stabilized’, and we should expect to see some increases. We certainly did. The market is being manipulated, and nobody is watching.
kucinich had a couple of very good answers.
williams had a number of very stupid questions.
Did Obama really say Iran has nukes?
Oklahoma kiddo @ 272
OK, don’t toy with me.
Hugh @ 274
That was rather funny. The Republican Party is in full on Do-Do Bird mode, Bush loses the 2000 election popular vote and the Democrats swept the floor in 2006…yet the Dems are at risk.
Williams head must be stuffed with used copies of the Washington Times.
-GSD
Boring. That’s what it was.
selise @ 287
The debate in a nutshell.
Oklahoma kiddo @ 291
Maybe next time they’ll get ‘em to sing. Or figure skate. Or something. Or make them answer in the form of a question.
Eureka Springs @ 288
i heard him say something like that they were working to get them. and that no one doubts that.
like no one doubted that iraq had WMD. puleeze.
will have to check the transcript later… that was potentially a big blunder.
Now to figure out how to sneak Gravel into the Republics debate….
TeddySanFran @ 282
He’s got such a problem with her voice, doesn’t he? Meanwhile he’s about a decade away from sounding like Elmer Fudd.
Eureka Springs @
288
Working hard on getting them and close, I think I heard him say.
Neither is true, of course.
..l.,
lectric lady @ 298
Even better.
Foreign Policy never makes a good campaign topic-
The two big domestic issues- health care and energy- are too complicated to discuss meaningfully in a forum like this..
The war is a big emotional issue- but it will likely be OVER by election day..
Didn’t learn what I need to know about these.
lectric lady @ 298
lectric lady, long time no see! And what a lovely digit you have there. How’ve you been?
time to go read emptywheel’s post…
rwcole @ 279
Yeah, it was a particularly sucky question. Brian Williams was annoying enough that I’m not sorry I had to work late.
Tweety: Hill was not unlikeable, kept her voice in check (!!)
Obama was “sophisticated” and “complete”
selise @ 237
I will not vote for Obama, no more than I will vote for Hillary or Biden. He presented himself as a hawk, and he’s completely credulous about ChimpCo’s propaganda on Iran. Edwards came across as empty and unreal on his moral leader statement. I’m sorry but Gravel and Kucinich have won my respect and probably my vote. They are the only ones who stood up and really tried to deconstruct this administrations destructive foreign policy and come across as analytical. The rest are just towing the line.
I predict that Obama will be the subject of Tweety’s next man-crush!
Redshift @
306
Ewwww. Tweety creeps me out.
Hugh @
192
That’s my feeling as well. I hope their number comes up for oversight hearings.
Redshift @ 306
In five minutes. Right now, Tweety is having a ‘lil flirt with Biden.
TeddySanFran @ 304
With a floral nose and flinty aftertaste.
HotFlash @ 301
I have been in lurk mode. Got my new eyes, and am busy looking for early bird migrants here in northern Wisconsin. Had a Trumpeter Swan on our lake yesterday.
Thanks for asking!
Eureka Springs @ 288
He’s either lying or a stupid twit. Excuse me, but I always found Obama a little craven, especially since the Lamont campaign. Now I find him an inexcusable excuse for a Democratic nominee.
Nothing changed for me. I still prefer Kucinich but will be glad to vote consevatively for Edwards.
CTuttle @
260
No cable. Oh well.
RonD @ 141
Amen. No half-quotes from him…
I am beginning to really like Kucinich. I don’t know how electable he is, but I’m certainly listening. The dude has stones.
TeddySanFran @ 139
What is up with Kos not liking Kucinich again?
RagingGurrl @ 284
[Mod Note; the Google link was deleted because it was breaking the margins. Sorry.]
there’s a bunch of fun stuff out there.
http://www.network-science.de/ascii/
that one is cool. look around…
selise @ 287
Oh yeah, and what’s with that question about the “end of the Democratic party.” Williams should be more worried about the end of the Republikan party. It’s not the Democrats who are in free fall.
Biden says that the American people will decide, not the press, who won the debate. I think that Moyers proved last night that it’s the press, who will influence who won the debate. Not the people who didn’t watch it.
lectric lady @ 311
HotFlash @ 301
lectric lady @ 298
..l.,
lectric lady, long time no see! And what a lovely digit you have there. How’ve you been?
I have been in lurk mode. Got my new eyes, and am busy looking for early bird migrants here in northern Wisconsin. Had a Trumpeter Swan on our lake yesterday.
Thanks for asking!
Good to hear! I’ve never seen a trumpeter, where are you?
We’ve had a ruby-crowned kinglet in our apple tree and flittering around our back windows for past two days, on his way up to the spruce forests. I wonder if he wasn’t challenging his reflection in the glass. Gorgeous in his spring finery.
Kos “ugh” on Kucinich post
Gas near $3.50 in West LA
carmen @ 319
Hmm. . . MSNBC got a poll? Vote Kucinich.
Kucinich has never impressed me- he’s not a serious candidate- it’s a vanity campaign.
itwasntme @ 323
Same in Orange County
There’s several levels to hard drive forensics. At one level when you delete a file the contents of the file are still on the hard drive (until overwritten by another file) and if you get to the hard drive before much additional thrash (creation and deletion of files) you can recreate earlier files by simply piecing together raw data sectors off the hard drive.
But, and I’m not absolutely sure about this, my understanding is you can overwrite a hard drive’s sectors with zeroes, for example, to remove the content of a file BUT forensics can still see the residue of the prior file under the zeroes. Let’s say that a true zero is 0 and a true one is 1 but on the hard drive a zero may be 0-0.3 and a one is 0.7-1 with the variation signifying the prior value of the data bit (in binary where everything is 0 or 1).
The problem with “…were imaged…” is that you’ll only get the surface data which means in on a heavily used file system (such as Rove’s) old emails won’t be found.
HOWEVER, if you actually removed the hard drive, instead of simply imaging it, you could conceivably dig down and find the contents of files below current files (or zeroed data sectors files).
SO, I raise the question whether the “forensic experts” are truly forensic experts or are whitewashing — doing a superficial (given the severity of the situation) analysis.
All with the caveat that I’m assuming the word ‘imaged’ refers to capturing the data reported by the operating system (with prior data scrubbed) or whether the hard drives were completely pulled out of the box and attached to specialized devices to pull the actual (not binary reduced) electrical/magnetic imprint from the drive, possibly even necessitating disassembling the hard drive to get at the platters themselves (though I’m completely guessing here re what procedure may be required).
rwcole @ 325
I don’t see how he could win, but I love his nerve.
Here is the MSNBC poll “rate the candidates“. I seriously want to swing this poll to the left.
mui @ 324
vote MSNBC
Dang, I hope Waxman has good secret service detail.
Zee @ 328
Noone remember the gentleman from Plains, GA? James Earl Carter? Similar profile at this point of pre-’76 election.
I came to the debate late, but I was impressed with the depth of our side, the ideas and talent and commitment.
I’m so happy that I don’t have to choose between McCain and Guiliano and Brownback (?) and maybe Thompson and who else is running?
rwcole @ 324
Tweety? Is that you?
Eureka Springs @ 321
That does sound bad, especially the antichoice part. Is it true?
HotFlash @ 320
I have been in lurk mode. Got my new eyes, and am busy looking for early bird migrants here in northern Wisconsin. Had a Trumpeter Swan on our lake yesterday.
Thanks for asking!
Good to hear! I’ve never seen a trumpeter, where are you?
We’ve had a ruby-crowned kinglet in our apple tree and flittering around our back windows for past two days, on his way up to the spruce forests. I wonder if he wasn’t challenging his reflection in the glass. Gorgeous in his spring finery.
We live in Douglas County Wisconsin, about 10 miles south of Lake Superior. Where are you? It is a little early for kinglets here.
Kevin Hayden >
Thanks for the mention.
May the powers of the universe protect her & hers.
“Democracy is made of knowledge.” – Carlo Bonini
Observations:
-the questions did not give us enough insight into the candidates (except Gravel)
-making them raise their hands seemed a rovian ploy to make them look like tools
-not one question on presidential power, which is very important right now
-the Dems could have done a better of showing how they differ from repubs
-Brian Williams asks really stupid, hateful questions
-I’m really glad Kucinich and Gravel are here to keep me awake
-All things considered, I like them all
Did anyone else notice that Chris Matthews congratulated Hillary on keeping her voice modulated? Condescending anyone? Patronizing? It’s enough to make me support Hillary. (If she becomes the candidate)
Compared to Repugs its a very good field.
lectric lady @ 335
Good to hear! I’ve never seen a trumpeter, where are you?
We’ve had a ruby-crowned kinglet in our apple tree and flittering around our back windows for past two days, on his way up to the spruce forests. I wonder if he wasn’t challenging his reflection in the glass. Gorgeous in his spring finery.
We live in Douglas County Wisconsin, about 10 miles south of Lake Superior. Where are you? It is a little early for kinglets here.
I’m in Toronto.
New Rule: Anyone who wants to be President should automatically be disqualified from being nominated.
mui @ 334
kucinich used to be among the very few “real” pro-lifers… (against the death penalty, pro-peace)… luckily some of his female friends explained to him that making abortion illegal was about preventing women from being in control of their own lives and their own bodies. not about protecting life (if you even think a fetus is a life).
some people need to have it explained to them. he seems to get it now – and knows he will be watched very carefully for any sign of backtracking.
i’m ok with that. ymmv.
(kos also had some bs complaints… i remember being very angry reading that post)
carmen @ 339
Chris Matthew might want to direct his fatuous little comments to his own party, which I hear he’s hosting.
Dodd just lied. Iran has not publicy declared an intent to develop nuclear weapons. They have declared their right to develop nuclear power.
-GSD
Phule @ 341
That’s always been the problem — anyone who would want to do the job almost certainly can’t be trusted.
Phule @ 342
Great! Gore/Feingold!
carmen @
333
The other Thompson, Gilmore, Duncan Hunter, Tom Tancredo, Huckabee, Gingrich (?)
Yes, ours are giants compared to these.
So who else would Clintons advisor think won?
This is a little OT, but something for EW to look at,and I figure since it’s going to be EPU’ed, maybe it’s OK (heh):
DOJ Stalls Anthrax Investigation
from DailyKos
Hunter/Tancredo 2008…. A relocation center in every town.
-GSD
I don’t see a poll on the msnbc link provided upthread??
interactive poll
GSD @ 345
katymine (an FDL commenter) attended a speech by Scott Ritter recently. He said Iran needs more than 3,000 centrifuges to refine uranium for a bomb (I have also heard 10,000) Iran has 186, or something like that, and they always break down before reaching the point where uranium is enriched.
hoping for a transcript soon…
there are several answers i want to check my hearing on….
msnbc poll here
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18300340
This linky works I hope
GSD @ 345
I didn’t hear that, but for that I rank him alongside Hillary, Obama, Richardson. My choices are narrowed to Kucinich, Gravel and Edwards. Apparently others think differntly: MSNBC poll.
Arrest Condi!
The Senate has the power to do so — says so right here on senate.gov)
http://www.democraticundergrou…..215;764094
Gravel to Tweety: I didn’t get as much time as the others and I was ready to mix it up. (Hee hee)
TeddySanFran @ 354
A friends brother saw Ritter speak too. He said he was furious with the zombified Americans who have internalized the anti-Iran mantras of the they day. He said that we are being set-up again.
-GSD
mui @ 335
I’m interested in what both of you think.
Why should any of us give a shit what Kos thinks about this: he’s shown us he’s a sexist pig.
The very economically comfortable Markos went out of his way to (verbally) attack a woman tech blogger getting death theats.
Privileged and indifferent to violence against women.
Some progressive ya got there, Markos. Tried looking in your mirror lately – or too busy preening?
Why should anyone give a flying jump what Markos thinks about womens’ issues?
dakine01 >
Ouch, I think I broke my fingers…
“Enlighten the people generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day.” – Thomas Jefferson
selise @ 343
Selise, thanks for clarifying. I guess the nation isn’t ready for a president who says “thank the goddess.”
Ha! Tweety asks Gravel why no other candidate is as blunt as he is, and Gravel comes back with (as part 2 of his answer) because you guys in the media are building up the front-runners.
To which Tweety replies: Where have you been since 1972?
Gravel’s answer: Under a rock!!!
mui @ 363
maybe it’s our job to get us there.
here’s hoping.
jayt @ 259
yup, a situation where i found myself relying on thumper’s mom’s sage advice: if you don’t have anything nice to say…
selise @
343
ok, I looked at the kos post…..and I am concerned — and totally surprised — at this anti-abortion, anti-stem-cell-research stuff. I’ve never paid close attention to K until 2 or 3 nights ago when he introduced the impeachment resolutions.
If folks have more info about this, I’m very interested. I can see that the other kos stuff might have been bs (don’t know much about him, either, except him being the god of the liberal blogosphere)….but this is IMPORTANT…..and somehow I can’t quite accept the idea that K just needed a few female friends to talk some sense into ‘im.
Go Gravel! He’s feisty!
No, I’d presume Karl Rove would be at the BOTTOM of the list. That the committee would first get emails from the LEAST powerful people who had RNC accounts.
Then, after more time and wrangling, from the next 3 least powerful. Then more time and wrangling. Rinse and repeat.
I had to run out to the corner store, but tell me what I’ve missed:
Biden went on camera to discuss the debate.
Richardson went on camera to discuss the debate.
Kucinich went on camera.
(I go to store.)
Hil’s rep went on camera.
Gravel went on camera.
almost new thread upstairs!
Gravel reminds me of the Repub who ran against Lamont and Lieberman.
Kirk,
I agree with selise @342 on Kucinich re the abortion reasoning. He is on the correct side.
I also think Kucinich is on the right track in every important issue raised this evening as well as his top ten platform on his web site.
Kucinich puts his actions where his words are.
See Cheneys impeachment this week…)
Someone asked about kos opinion and I posted it for them..
kirk murphy @ 362
Well I always had respect for kos, but I never really got into “the male” blogosphere. I like my yin-yang more balanced as it is here. So I never follow those developments. And I haven’t heard that story. If true, it is bad.
But I mean what is the real reason kos’ set against Kucinich? I am more than curious. Is it the “right to choose swap” and other citations in that post, or is it more “insidey?” Or just a personal freak?
I consider it important because with the lack of choices, I really am swinging for Kucinich but want to consider cricism as well (besides electability. We heard that with Howard Dean.)
selise @ 367
*secret handshake*
oh hell Tucker
Haven’t caught up with the whole thread/comments yet, but in case no one mentioned it yet — let us also hope that the subpoenas require the RNC to provide the following info:
1. Who had permissions to access the server(s).
2. For each person with permissions to access that server, list ALL permissions. Specifically, who could:
2.a. CREATE users and passwords (and restrict or assign users to specific directories or files).
2.b. CREATE directories.
2.c. CREATE server logs.
2.d. CREATE connections to the server(s).
2.e. CREATE files.
3. What types of connections to the servers were authorized? FTP? SFTP? What else? What passwords, registration requirements, or other access obstacles were in place?
4. Who was authorized to access the server(s)?
5. Who was authorized to overwrite directories, files, passwords, or server logs?
6. Who was authorized to create ‘hidden’ files? Was this restricted to specific users? Which users? What ‘hidden’ files were on those servers?
7. Who was authorized to DELETE users, server logs, directories, files, and passwords?
In other words, is it possible that some ‘users’ were created for a period of 20 minutes, then deleted? And then how would such a user’s identity be traced? What methods did the RNC have in place to detect possible server tampering?
Those are my questions, and I’m not even a server admin.
One concern — it’s all well and good to ask about the emails, but things that occurred on those servers (like electoral calculations) were almost certainly NEVER printed out. So who had access to those servers? At what access levels?
Who had server admin privileges? Who could create, overwrite, and delete?
snowbird42 @
264
Bush: “I listen to God as Karl Rove translates it.”
Hilary: “What answer do the polls say is correct?”
Maybe it’s a question Williams is prepping to use against the Catholics and Mormons running for preznit.
Really, there is no good answer. If it was a ‘gotcha’ debate, then that’s clearly a ‘gotcha’ question.
oddmommy @ 368
i’ve been watching kucinich off and on since i lived in cleveland when he was mayor (he was out of politics for about 10 years after that – long story that reflects well on him).,… but don’t claim to be an expert.
while i don’t really know where his head and heart is at with regard to reproductive freedom – i think there is good reason to think he will act appropriately. and that he can be reasoned with.
i’m willing to cut him a bit of slack only because i’ve actually met a couple of people i consider “real” prolifers. i think they are absolutely, completely wrong – but i don’t think they are motivated by a desire to control women’s lives/bodies/sexuality (like the vast majority of the anti-choice crowd). i can see it happening… especially with a someone who hasn’t thought it through from a woman’s pov.
i’ve never seen kucinich say or write anything as sexist as what kos has written (please note i am not calling kos sexist – that is something completely different than claiming he has used sexist language)
as always, would appreciate being corrected if others have more/better info.
still trying to catch up with this, but honestly…..how can folks here not be seriously troubled by Kucinich’s history on abortion? Here’s an old 2003 post from Jeralyn I just found:
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2003/03/02/833/62210
Hi Eureka Springs -
My apologies – I completely agree with you and Selise on this: my displeasure on the matter is with Markos alone.
I fear my comment read as though I’m dismissing or displeased with you and others simply for mentioning this. Again, I do apologize.
Eureka Springs @ 375
is the kos as sexist stuff based on anything other than the recent internet violence against women thing? Not trivializing that….only asking.
fwiw…….I don’t like anyone of any stripe who lets success, er, go to their head.
No worries at all, Kirk. I still want to know much more about Kucinich but what he says (in this pool of candidates) inspires me most these days.
TeddySanFran @ 202
You forgot somebody…
kirk murphy @ 362
Loo Hoo @ 386
Who?!? Chris Dodd? *just kidding*
2 cities destroyed by nukes:
If one of the cities wasn’t Washington a senator or congressman should return there immediately and call for the immediate impeachment and removal of Bush & Cheney, so we could get some civilian leadership who would prevent it from happening again.
If one of the cities was Washington, then we’d have a whole different ballgame.
MarkH @ 389
What is one of the cities was New Orleans?
Did Tweety just say “quit this dicking around” to Obama’s rep???
oddmommy @ 384
oddmommy, my take on Kos as sexist and a poor excuse for a progressive comes out of his choice to use his great prominence to choose to attack a woman blogger getting death threats.
Markos – son of privilege, settling into his expensive new home in Berkeley -
goes out of his way to bash a woman who fear to leave her home from violence.
He could have protected her.
He could have asked the community to help her.
He attacked her.
He mocked her.
What a shit of a human being.
As far as his attacks on Kucinich – at what point does Markos’ self-interest affect his assessments?
On a monetary level:
If Markos will never accept a cent from any political work or campaigns, this isn’t an issue.
If Markos makes any income from political work, when he criticizes potential Dem Prez contenders, is he aligning his views with the candidates/campaigns/consultants he may work with?
on a social level:
The kewl kids in the Democratic party – the same ones who brought us the Iraq invasion – long ago decided Kucinich is unelectable.
Attacking Kucinich fits with the Dem kewl kids’ conventional wisdom.
Does Markos assess candidates and issues soley on the basis of their positions on issues, or does peer acceptance influence his pronouncments and assessments?
If your peers say candidate X is unelectable – and your stock in trade is your credibility with your political peers – what happens to your stock if you ignore the group’s collective opinion?
Would Markos care most about accuracy – or most about his own future?
mui @ 386
i really hesitate to do it… ‘cuz there’s been (rightly) some very passionate posting… and yet, i’m unwilling comdemn markos. we’re all works in progress… i’d rather work to educate and reason with. not continue a flame war among allies.
that said… here is an overview of the most recent event.
mui @ 387
Here’s a link to skippy’s coverage. I’m uncomforable directly linking to Markos on this – yecch.
skippy quotes a whole raft of bloggers there – some do link to the Prince of Orange.
skippy’s summary:
kirk murphy @ 391 –
i don’t think markos is a progressive. he is a democratic partisan. imo.
selise @ 395
selise -
over the last several months I’ve come around to the same conclusion.
and I don’t care for dem partisans using “progressive” as a false flag to manipulate public perceptions.
The contract was for furniture.
Oops. We don’t have any furniture to show investigators. So it was really for scanning mail for anthrax.
Oops. We have a mailroom with several workers who know no such scanning was done by that company. So it was really for scanning emails.
Yeah, that’s the ticket. Emails. Nobody can say we didn’t do invisible stuff in cyberspace.
And that’s just a coincidence that Talon and Talon News sound a lot alike.
HotFlash @ 22
Condi has testified in front of Congress in the past on the War. Didn’t she forfeit her priviledge by appearing before on this subject?
Does Marcie rock or what?
oddmommy @ 317
Kucinich can’t possibly win the nomination or the election. If doesn’t matter what he says, he cannot win, so it is foolish to entertain the idea or waste your vote.
Phule @ 342
what my ex-hsband always said – exept he applied it to all elected offices. He may have had a point.
xargaw @
400
Wow – just what the conventional wisdom said about Carter this far ahead of the ‘76 election.
I was stunned by this paragraph
Consider that the Social Security administration operated hundreds of local offices with thousands of employees last year at the cost of $5.3 billion according to last week’s trustees report.
solid post mt. looking forward to further exposure of the machine underlying the culture of corruption.
spurious @
153
$2.54? What Bay Area is THAT?!?!?!?!?!
I’m in Sacto, it’s $3.29 or so for the cheap stuff!!! And going UP!!!!
BTW, great thread, great participation, and I’m glad some folks are getting a taste of Kuch . . . he and Gore would tear it up, I tell ya.
And Waxman. Well. Send THIS guy some flowers and chocolate or whatever is legal to do. Praise him mighitly, and tell your local talk radio and newspapers to cover him or you’ll boycott their sponsers and advertisers.
Is that a lil stream of sunlight comin thru? Or I’m I havin flashbacks of The Sierra’s at 13,500 again . . . that was 30 years or more ago!!! ;-)
“Talon — which stands for Threat and Local Observation Notices….”
And Jeff Gannon worked for Talon News…. Is that just a coinkydink, too?
solai @ 373
Alan Slesinger, I thought of him, too.
GSD @
179
Well, I know it’s late, and all that, but, I offer my extended middle finger, if that helps. Still, even at THIS hour of the blog. And again, tomorrow, if required. Both hands. WTF, Golden Eagle’s Dos Manos Por Senor Williams.
selise @
237
FDL pups, did Obama come out and go Shilary on us, and on Iran? As described above?
Cuz if he did, then he’s just lumped himself into the pool of Shil’s where they don’t think the progressive vote will matter.
My god, Obama just came out for Corporate War Mongering And Sanctioned Erosioin Of Civil Righths (cuz the two hafta go together)?????
That’s just sheer idiocy to come out on that, and especially this early. Drives progressives to another candidate immediately.
Will progressive vote be enuff to swing someone other than Hil or Obama?
notimetowaste @
258
Swallows. The word is swallows. Most of them do. Politicians, that is.
KUCH!!!!!!!!! :BIGGRIN:
mui @
312
S’HEAH!!!!!!
I was ok with him, but today, it’s all over.
Hawks Like Shilary He Does. Bad Planet Juju.
Harumph.
KUCH!!!!!!!!!!
GORE!!!!!!!!!!
oddmommy @
317
mIm, Kos.
Or:
iiIii Koz.
Or, the preferred FDL crowd fav it seems:
..l.,
Zee @
328
Stop pooping on our parade, take off yer shoes and join us. That’s how he wins. Simple shit.
Eureka Springs @
334
Phreakin hilarious.
Good call ES!!!! :grin:
I thoOklahoma kiddo @ 244
I thought he did fine, actually his best answer to one of the many poor questions (hair, hedge funds).
I was suprised to see Kucinich wife (that is never seen her before, so seeing her for the first time), very tall and with red hair. About 1 foot taller than him. I don’t know why, but maybe since he is short, and with the political giants on the stage compared to his popularity I guess I assumed.
kirk murphy @ 394
kirk murphy, thanks for that link. I was unaware of all that. Like Shakespeare’s sister, and the other “feminazis,” I do take threats very seriously too. I went through a scary period of my life when I was receiving harassing letters from one man, daily, among other things. There’s no way to describe the mix of emotions (rage, fear, humiliation even) when you realize the psycho won’t stop. I feel for Sierra.
emptywheel:
Stroz Friedberg has ties to Leahy.
emptywheel:
Here is that:
http://www.strozllc.com/beryl.html