Former US Attorney David Iglesias, from MSNBC’s Hardball
Karl Rove is becoming everyone’s favorite target again, and it’s not because everyone wants to reach out and touch him. This time he’s the investigative target of one of his own targets. More on that in a minute.
A year ago Rove escaped indictment in the Valerie Plame outing apparently because he had five chances to change his story tell the truth before the Grand Jury. Now he’s become the focus of investigations into violations of the Hatch Act, violations of the laws requiring archiving of Presidential messages and potentially illegal political interference in the affairs of the Department of Justice, and because these are all tied together, they may yet all add up to obstruction of justice.
This week, the Administration left Alberto Gonzales and his shattered reputation on the perimeter of wagons that still encircle and protect Rove and the President. That was the meaning of President Bush’ astonishing statement that Gonzales’ testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee increased his confidence in his now discredited Attorney General. Dan Froomkin ascribed “Bush’s Inexplicable Confidence” to stalling:
But does the White House really think this scandal will pass?
More likely, Bush and his aides are stalling for time, hoping to keep the public in the dark about what really prompted the prosecutor purge for as long as possible, taking some pleasure in befuddling congressional investigators — and letting Gonzales’s limp corpse take fire that might otherwise be aimed at the White House directly.
Everyone else knows that Gonzales’ effectiveness at an Attorney General ended with his appearance, and his dwindling value as a shield instead of just another embarrassment for the White House probably depends on how much effort Democrats continue to expend trying to force Gonzales’ resignation when their real targets — the folks who gave the compliant Gonzales his political instructions — are in the White House. But Gonzales must be wondering why he continues to be the sacrifice when a growing number of people are pointing their fingers at Karl Rove.
Yesterday the media picked up on the LA Times story that revealed an obscure White House entity, the Office of Special Counsel, had initiated a broad investigation of several matters relating to the White House efforts to politicize not just the Justice Department but other parts of the federal government. And this investigation is inside the circle of wagons. Firedoglake’s Eli highlighted that story last night.
The WaPo also carried the story yesterday, which was then picked up by the major television news shows last night. (Here are CBS and ABC and CNN.) According to the LA Times and WaPo stories, the initial focus was the powerpoint presentation Karl Rove’s operatives did for General Services Administation officials early this year to encourge them to manage their offices to benefit Republican candidates, actions that would violate the Hatch Act.
J. Scott Jennings conducted the Jan. 26 videoconference in the political affairs office at the White House. His PowerPoint presentation, to as many as 40 Republican GSA political appointees, contained slides describing Democratic seats that the GOP planned to target in the next election and Republican seats that needed to be protected.
“That’s the smoke,” said an OSC staff member, who added that the OSC is looking at whether similar briefings occurred at other executive branch agencies.
As Eli noted, bloggers have been quick to urge that the head of OSC should not be trusted; emptywheel had this story two years ago (h/t cbl). On Countdown last night, Howard Fineman expressed the Beltway’s (and Democrats’) suspicions about how thorough and honest any internal White House investigation would be. But Administration officials have unboubtedly noticed that the Democrats have hired over 200 investigators to search under every rock in this scandal-plagued Administration. They must realize they need to at least look like they’re doing their jobs.
I also suspect this obscure investigative unit took notice of what happened last month when Henry Waxman’s Committee publically humilitated and upbraided the White House security officials for their failure to investigate who was responsible for exposing Valerie Plame’s identity. With Waxman’s Committee exposing their indifference to lawbreaking, and the White House showing its willingness to let even cabinet members fall on their swords, lower level bureaucrats can figure out that the rules are changing and be “encouraged” to start doing their jobs. If not, Waxman’s Committee will be following up. In the meantime, to emphasize the point that they will no longer tolerate having the entire US Government become branches of the Republican Party, Congressional Democrats are already calling for the resignation of GSA’s head, Lurita don’t leave any fingerprints Doan for enabling the White House’ apparent Hatch Act violations.
Nothing like a little oversight. Everyone in the Bush Administration knows the spotlight is coming.
And all that was written as I watched this:
Former US Attorney David Iglesias called into MSNBC’s Hardball last night to answer questions about his forced resignation, the competence of Alberto Gonzales and the possible complicity of Karl Rove in the continuing politicization of the Justice Department. His comments were frank, revealing, and seemingly sincere; and unlike his former boss, he remembers the answer to every question. Iglesias pretty much validated the Democrats’ argument that the White House still owes the American people answers to some tough questions about their role in politicizing the Justice Department. Here is a sampling:
– Why does he think he was fired? “I believe the reason I was forced to resign was for not getting involved in political activities, in activities that could have assisted a member of Congress.”
– What was the issue? “Well, the election fraud was the initial problem, and then I think what broke the back, so to speak—the straw that broke the camel’s back was the non-rushing of politically sensitive corruption cases against Democrats in New Mexico.”
– Is there evidence that Rove broke the law? “There are some emails—there is some evidence. It is circumstantial now. I believe if OSC digs in, they can get direct evidence establishing that link.”
– Is he (Iglesias) a Republican? Yes.
– If he were investigating this case, where would he look to find out why the eight US Attorneys were forced to resign and whether it was improper? Monica Goodling is the key, he said. She was not only the counsel to Gonzales but also the liaison between the Justice Department and the White House. Everything would have been going through her, so it’s important to get her testimony.
But here’s the bombshell:
MATTHEWS: Mr. Iglesias, was your complaint to the Office of Special Counsel the reason for this investigation of Karl Rove?
DAVID IGLESIAS, FIRED U.S. ATTORNEY: It—it—it could have started the ball rolling, yes. This is something I filed back on April 3 of this year.
MATTHEWS: Well, April 3 is not that long ago. What—what, in terms of the timeline, leads you to believe that your – that your complaint led to this probe?
IGLESIAS: Well, based on Special Counsel having powers to investigate where the evidence goes. I actually filed a Hatch Act complaint against Gonzales, McNulty, Kyle Sampson, and Monica Goodling. And I think OSC is already getting information, getting documents produced from the Justice Department and possibly from the White House already.
[snip]
MATTHEWS: Why did you go to them if you thought they might be feeble? You must have some confidence that going to them would get you some justice here, as you see it.
IGLESIAS: Because their entire mission is to bring enforcement actions against the executive branch of the federal government. Also, their deputy is a military reservist, and I’ve got a lot of faith and confidence in him and in Mr. Bloch.
To borrow a line from Christy, it’s not smart to upset prosecutors, Karl. They don’t go away. And I just have to smile, because you can bet Marcy’s off in the weeds looking for what various parties were saying/doing starting after April 3.
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‘morning!
Bloch up now on CNN. Will he be asked about the dump of all those backlogged whistleblower cases?
Good morning, pups!
Sadly, I just don’t have much hope in this Bloch guy who is a Bush stooge.
Though, perhaps he has some sort of guilt-ridden conscience to actually do his job finally. Or maybe this is just an act to buy until the end of the term before anything on this happens.
Meanwhile, the blogwhore. Maureen Dowd in History — writes about Gandhi
as froomkin says, it’s all about the stall.
though i am of a mind to believe that at least some of the investigations will bear fruit AFTER these thieves are out of government. at the very least, it’ll hamper their job hunts in the corporate community.
i cannot get truly jazzed by the OSC investigation — it is, after all, an investigation handled by the administration. for me, it’s another chance to whitewash. on the other hand, nothing’s better than prosecutors craving credibility. and i’d so like to be pleasantly surprised.
Karl Rove is becoming everyone’s favorite target again, and it’s not because everyone wants to reach out and touch him.
oooo, delicious snark!
Yeah, I think that OSC’s investigation is a classic shell game. “Look Mom, I AM cleaning my room, really!”
I really think Bloch’s mission is to police-up any loose e-mails, texts and powerpoints before Congressional investigators can get their hands on them.
We could use subpoenas from Waxman today for Rove and Miers – that would ‘freeze’ all related documents, including the ‘talking points’ powerpoint lecture to the GSA.
Attaturk @
4
I had my doubts as well, based on Bloch’s Bushie status and track record. But I have to admit I see a glimmer of hope with Iglesias’ mention of a deputy that is a reservist — it’s a message to Bloch that he’s not only being watched from the outside by the Oversight Committee and the public, but on the inside by real law enforcement folks.
Would not be surprised at all to see Bloch step down to spend more time with family in the near future if he can’t do the job to the letter of the law, either.
Good morning, Scarecrow,
I didn’t hold out much hope that this OSC investigation would lead to much, seeing as how there actually a part of the executive… But when you’ve got an (apparently) aggrieved US attorney, well, I suppose that hope springs eternal.
-MS
What’s up with Monica Goodling these days? They need to get her to spill the beans. Can Congress ask for a Special Prosecutor to investigate?
Attaturk @
4
I kind of agree. This is a sideshow. It could amount to something, but I doubt it.
The WH should also be in trouble for NOT investigating Rove for leaking classified info. By law, an investigation should have occured. No investigation did, so laws were broken.
Is Condi’s subpeona coming up today? I know she said yesterday she had better things to do than talking to Congress.
wow! excellent post, here, scarecrow!
i knew it would be a good idea to
stop here, first, this morning — you’ve
nailed down a lot of the details that were
just emerging as i went to bed last night.
so thanks, and kudos!
i do think bloch is going to act, in part
to draw attention away from many of his
prior failings and misdeeds, but i simply
love the idea that iglesias trusts his
deputy. . . there’s nothing quite like
having an “outsider on the inside of an
investigation“. . . of course, this could
all go sideways, again — but right now it
looks pretty darn promising. . .
finally his saying that monica goodling
has “the keys to the kingdom. . .” rings
true to me — she was the communication
port between justice and the white house.
so — it is perfect timing that in an hour
and a half, rep john conyers’ house judiciary
committee will vote on immunity, and a subpoena
with ms. goodling’s name on it. . .
yes. now — off to see how rep. henry waxman’s
subpoena of condi rice is coming along. . .
g’mornin’ all. . .
I also watched the Hardball interview last night. Another little snippet I picked up on: Iglesias stated that if he were the investigator, he would be requesting not only E-mails but also Memorandum’s. Iglesias stated that nothing happens in the DOJ without it being documented. I bet Monica has some pretty interesting Memo’s that are being held on to.
Twisted Martini @ 7
Henry will look in the closet AND under the bed.
Condi is likely to get harpooned by Tenet this weekend in conjunction with the release of his book.
Now is the time to subpoena her, before accusations of ‘partisan political hit jobs’ start flying after 60 Minutes.
Good morning, gang. Lots of other stuff going on today. Iraq’s coming apart. The war funding bill is up for grabs. New investigations starting.
Re OSC, it may be helpful to have OSC perceived as part of the coverup. The image gives further justification for tough Congressional investigations, and it may induce OSC to actually do something besides whitewash/stall. It certaintly can’t help the WH to have its own investigative branch claiming it needs to examine Karl Rove’s entire operations. But for now, there is enough rolling of eyes around the blogs to shift the planet’s rotation.
GeorgeSimian @ 13
yup. 10 a.m. no word on whether it will be televised.
Rayne @ 9
Yeah, that was interesting, wasn’t it? — and it looks like Matthews was primed to ask the question about OSC credibility.
Good early morning from L.A.
Excellent post this a.m., Scarecrow.
Another very interesting writeup on Bloch appears in the latest issue of Mother Jones (h/t to Anna Perenna):
Don’t Whistle While You Work
Washington Monthly
Kevin Drum,
June 28, 2006
“HE TRULY ENJOYS GETTING PEOPLE TO KNUCKLE UNDER”….I’m reading Ron Suskind’s The One Percent Doctrine right now, and it’s been an odd experience. Yes, it has quite a few anecdotes that make George Bush and Dick Cheney look bad, but at the same time it frequently paints a fairly sympathetic portrait of them as men who are reacting as well as anyone could to the furious real-time cascade of genuinely frightening and confusing events in the early days after 9/11.
More on that later, though. For now, here’s one of those anecdotes instead. It’s set at Harvard Business School in 1975, where Bush was captain of his class’s basketball team. His team is playing the Class of ‘76 team:
The game was tight. The other team’s captain, Gary Engle…went up for a shot. Bush slugged him — an elbow to the mouth, knocking him to the parquet. “What the hell are you doing?” Engle remembers saying. “What, you want to get into a fistfight and both of us end up in the fucking emergency room?” Bush just smiled.
Moments later, at the other end of the court, Engle went up high for a rebound and felt someone chop his legs out from under him. Bush again. Engle jumped up and threw the ball in Bush’s face. The two went at it until two teams of future business leaders leapt on their captains, pulling them apart. Engle, angry and vexed by what had happened, began wondering why the hell Bush would have done what he did. He lost his composure, and his team lost its leader.
A few years later, Engle…bumped into Jeb Bush….Engle, a Republican contributor, had thought from time to time about his game against George. Nothing like that had happened to him before or since. This was his chance to get a little insight about it. He told the story. Jeb kind of laughed, Engle recalled. “In Texas, they call guys like George ‘a hard case.’ It wasn’t easy being his brother, either. He truly enjoys getting people to knuckle under.”
IrishJim @ 15
so true. we live and breathe memos here. I’m still waiting to see the delegation of authority memo that gave Gonazalez (or was it Sampson) the authority to fire US Attorneys.
re goodling, man i sure hope conyers’ folks know what they’re doing. i still blanch when i remember how the immunity deals worked to the advantage of the crooks in iran-contra.
as for bloch, i agree that it might merely be a bid — let’s make that probably is a bid — by the white house to gum up congressional subpoenas. “can’t turn those over, we have an investigation of our own, doncha know.”
I love the people who newly discover their ethics.
David Iglisias and many of the repuke USAs were silent and played along with the rovians until they got pilloried as imcompetants in the press… many were willing to just go on to greener pastures and let another repuke USA take over. Look at Minneapolis.
If there’s a republican around… there’s criminal activity going on or being covered up.
ok, I posted this down stairs not expecting to be around when it was aprapos but I believe it’s aprapos here
I have twelve hour work day today and I don’t think I’ll be able to visit today
I know this is off topic and if someone wants to repost it on a thread that’s more on point please feel free;
I had an Epiphany this morning reading the following from think progress;
I believe I came up with a scenario that would work and all we have to do is organize the strategy
look, the new leadership of the republican party are not republicans, they are fascists who have high jacked the party and their constituents
this is a fact not a speculation, there is nothing republican about this leadership…they are “neo cons” but they are not “extra concervative” they are radical in every sense of the word
so to restate
this leadership is neither republican nor Conservative and they have high jacked the party and their constituents
therefore, since the real republicans don’t want to be tossed from power for at least a generation, which is what will happen if they don’t do something about this administration. they can do something that will save their party and possibly save their jobs;
they can ouster the neo cons and their movement from the party
I don’t mean they should start a new party for themselves, I mean they should literally throw these fascists out of their party and reclaim their integrity.
now, I don’t know if they can actually do this legally but they can sure do it rhetorically
I GUARANTEE there are republicans that will get on board a movement like that
they are now hostages and all they have to be is enabled
once they effectively remove these fascists from their party impeachment will be WEEKS away, not months but weeks.
they will simply march into this administrations office and say in no uncertain terms;
“you will be voted out of office in the senate or you will resign, one or the other but you will no longer be president or vice president”
look, I’ve said it before and I need to keep saying it;
we CANNOT afford to keep these people in office and here is a NEW reaspn why
every single step they get closer to loosing power they will do more and more harmful, they will be more and more insistant, they will put more and more of their pals in positions that make it impossible to remove
we MUST deal with the republicans, we MUST get thises criminals OUT of goverment, they are destroying everything we have and creating havens across the globe for what they have stolen from us, the Iraqi’s and the world
WE MUST DEAL
and it’s simple too…these republicans do NOT want to give up their seats in government and we can point out how much easier it will be if they deal
we will allow some of their seats to go uncontested
we will give them some pork, something to take home, we will do whatever it takes to help them reclaim their party and our country
it will be SIMPLE for them to throw the administration under the bus…SIMPLE
all they have to do is like so;
“the evidence we have now seen makes it clear these people have destroyed our constitution, they have tried to turn this country into a fascist state and they are not republicans they are fascists”
time for the democrats to put an end to the damage done by these fasicists and they need the republcian party to do that
the REAL republicans will be HAPPY to reclaim their party by REMOVING the fasicists from their leadership
TiredFed @ 15
And peel up the carpet.
Also interesting on CNN this morning [look for repeat snippets during the day] — Roberts’ conversation with Jessica Lynch. And Barbara Starr reporting on the press release about why not flags for soldiers flying at half staff.
She talked about the rituals observed at Bagram and the questions being asked about why there’s no official honor back at home. Right in the same playbook as the hush-hush return of remains to Dover.
And the Coontz family tragedy–their serviceman hung himself at Walter Reed and wasn’t found for TWO DAYS. [video report at ABC News]
This is the class warfare, folks. Bushie and the Titans’ disdain for our military as people, not just their pawns on the gameboard.
IrishJim @ 15
let’s hope waxman get that message and contact iglesias for more insights which I’m sure he is holding on to for a more effective venue
Great post, as per usual, scarecrow.
TiredFed @
16
And betweeen the mattress and the boxspring.
Lovely post, Scarecrow. Firepupz are keep that heat on ‘em.
TiredFed @ 19
On CSPAN 3 at 10. Not sure if Oversight website will webcast (that one works for me but not CSPAN. go figure).
Here’s my thoughts on Bloch:
So Waxman is holding a business meeting consider subpeonas for 4 individ: toSecretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Andrew Card, Mike Duncan for Republican National Committee documents, and Fred Fielding for contacts between the White House and MZM.
mui @ 32
I would like waxman to excersize all legal physical force he is entitled to enforce these subpeonas
I want anyone that refuses subpeona arrested and held in contempt
good morning, pups – coffee is ready.
and little bit of justice to go with it!
perris @ 26
Perris, you are on to something. let’s hope the talent picks this up and runs with it. There needs to be a Republican groundswell to get to 2/3s in the Senate.
HotFlash @ 30
aww. please dont look there! we’ve seen enough Republican p0rn havent we? (only kidding – look everywhere!)
TiredFed @ 35
I believe I am on to something…this is not their party, they need to be enabled to reclaim it, that enablement will come from a republican “roots project” to remove the fascists from their party.
we can get the ball rolling you know, like you say, the power brokers on the republican side need to be shown a little mappypoo and the democrats can show encourage the map with some dealing
ok, off to work for the day, will probably miss the fun
have a good time all
perris @ 33
It’s been done before. From the Senate’s own website:
On March 26, 1848, the Senate arrested a journalist and imprisoned him in a Capitol committee room.
(snip)
Under questioning, Nugent refused to disclose his sources to Senate investigators, saying only that in this instance they were neither senators nor Senate officers. The frustrated investigating committee thereupon ordered him to be arrested and confined to one of the Senate’s committee rooms. As the Herald retaliated by publishing the names of the Senate’s most cooperative leakers, Nugent spent his captivity in comfort, receiving a doubled salary while issuing his regular columns under the dateline “Custody of the Sergeant at Arms.” Each evening he accompanied the sergeant at arms to that officer’s home for a good meal and a comfortable night’s sleep.
Hit ‘em with the folding chair Henry!
Iglesias is showing other people of principle how it is done.
He’s got “A Few Good Men” behind him.
TiredFed @ 38
Didn’t Tom Delay lock everyone in a room once?
They must realize they need to at least look like they’re doing their jobs.
Bush has never had that realization trouble his beautiful mind.
Rayne @
9
Tom Hamburger’s article in yesterday’s LATimes had me excited, but some of the wiser heads dampened my enthusiasm by pointing out that Bloch is a Bushie and not likely to be helpful. Subsequent googling on Bloch was anything but reassuring.
But, now, all Republican’s have to choose sides. They can side with this lame-duck administration that has made preparations for a coup but has never been able to do anything competently. Or, they can side with the patriots who are trying to re-establish the rule of law. Every Republican has to decide.
Or as you suggest, they can choose to spend more time with their family.
man it is hard to leave the lake once we get started isn’t it?
must post before I go, from think progress, very very nice;
now let’s tie that in with this;
the president has been trying to make believe his surge is succesful, it is counter productive and he knows it
the democrats need to ride on THAT train
Good Morning Scarecrow and Firedogs,
that would be James Renne
and I see nothing in the links so far to validate Mr. Yglesias’ trust in Mr. Renne
these two have been busy with all the usual Loyal Bushie crap – homophobia, sexism, professional clumsiness, running off career professionals and replacing them with Ave Maria Law School grads, and advocating for fundies and fundie ideas even when far outside departmental purview
and both have been dismissive of Henry’s work in the past
and oh yeah Scarecrow, I found that emptywheel link last night and had a satsifying chuckle imagining the Lioness deftly stalking on the veldt :)
There’s an aspect of the Hatch Act that seems to be frequently misunderstood by journalists (Dana Milbank on Countdown last night being the most recent.) They talk about the Hatch Act stopping federal workers from engaging in political activity. While that’s what it does directly, its purpose is to protect workers from being pressed into service by political appointees for fear of their jobs.
The distinction is important, and every federal worker and relative (my dad worked for the government) understands it. Makes me wonder whether it’s just a simple misunderstanding by high-level journalists, or a hint that the government people they socialize with at the Correspondents’ Dinner think of it as being a law for the “little people.”
Perris #26 said: the new leadership of the republican party are not republicans, they are fascists who have high jacked the party and their constituents
perris @ 44
Unless there’s a retired Texas Air National Guard General in the group, the Decider’s not going to pay much attention.
I’m all aglow for Scarecrow’s post. I’m trying to remember the last time I was so pinktickled with news….Wait, oh yeah, the frackin libby trial, and then there was the Gonzo ordeal, and the “Everyone knows Rove’s at bottom” thread, and Goodling, and Plame and……..! I forgot where I was for a moment.
Love ya all!
Tgrdug
Our Military can justifiably cite Political failure in Iraq as the reason we lost the War.
Our troops have done everything, and more, they’ve been asked to do. It’s not their fault that pure political folly proved beyond them to save.
Let’s bring them home.
Assuming Dems win WH and both houses in 2008:
It looks like there is evidence developing for a Congressional finding that Bush has deliberately politicized the civilian workforce in federal agencies in the past (just read at TPM about current Mo. USA who refused to hire non-Republicans).
To my mind, all hires since 2001 are suspect. It justifies passing a law permitting a one-time suspension of federal job protection practices, and letting a new administration fire them all.
Bob in Arkansas, USA @ 47
It’s the end result of selling out to the Bush family.
radiofreewill @ 50
we did NOT loose the war, we lost an occupation, our military completed every military assignment and they won the war
they are not a political arm of the government, they are not an occupying force, they are not painters of schools, they are not diplomats and they are not a free police for the Iraqi’s
it’s the president’s moronic post war agenda that failed, NOT our military
Tired Fed — that story sounds almost civilized. 1848.
congrats S.O.S. and Mrs. S.O.S. !
and everyone hit the tivo – Tonight is Bill Moyers on PBS
cbl @ 45
IMO, that trust seems more like insight into the psychology of Iglesias and partly why he’s still a Republikan. Even though he’s a prosecutor, he’s got a less than cynical view of the leadership. perhaps.
IrishJim @ 15
Wanna bet the paper trail is long gone? Paper much easier to eliminate than erocords.
I have been saying this for quite some time! Perhaps the neo-cons that seized the party should now go out and form their own party!!
cbl — I like that image of the lioness. I meant to give you a h/t — refresh.
And I just have to smile, because you can bet Marcy’s off in the weeds looking for what various parties were saying/doing starting after April 3.
In Costa Rica, most people use a machete to cut weeds, a really, really sharp one!
Bob in Arkansas, USA @ 58
the republicans should FORCE them into forming their own party
that might save their jobs and we can make it easier for them to keep their jobs if they get on that bus
ok, really got to go
by all
eCAHNomics @ 57
Maybe Miss Monica would hold onto something though, for a little insurance perhaps?
Redshift @ 46
that’s certainly my understanding. we cant participate in partisan political activities and cannot be forced to do so by others (including the boss). it’s why that story of the GSA “brownbag” meetings with White House politicos made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. If I had been there, I would have walked out.
Redshift @ 46
Yes, and I should have been clearer that the folks in trouble are the ones who arranged (Rove and Doan) and gave (their minions) the presentations, not necessarily those who had to watch it.
Badwater @ 52
This started long before Bush was in office. It really started to become apparent to many of us when Nixon left office. As much as I dislike the Chicken in Command, this one is not on him or his family.
perris @ 37
I am less optimistic. I agree that Republicans at the level of a “roots project” aren’t in agreement with the fascists, the actions of the rubberstamp Congress mean that most national Republicans are hip deep in this stuff, and have benefited greatly. We’ve been able (to some extent) to show our recalcitrant Democrats the way on the war and progressive policies by getting out in the streets and winning, but if grassroots Republicans help restore real functioning government, a lot of their top people will be out on the street or in jail, which may make them less cooperative even if it would be better for the party.
In short, I think saner people can reclaim the GOP, but I think they’ll have to lose bigger than they did in ‘06 before it happens.
But who knows, maybe if it looks obvious that they are going to lose that big in ‘08, enough of ‘em will decide that if the White House is going to sink, perhaps their own involvement can be passed off as “old news,” and manning the torpedoes from the other side will hurt them less than going down with the ship.
mui @ 56
David Iglesias should be the poster boy for the Republican party. Instead, they get Gonzales! And Rove!
thanks scarecrow! not necessary but thanks
mui – yeah, I suspect Iglesias is something of a babe in the woods – although I had a tin foil adjusting moment where I thought maybe Iglesias did it just to throw some sunlight on Blochworld and it’s nefarious ‘accomplishments’ and how in fact it may be some kind of key to USA scandal
and hey! did everyone see TPM made a connection via AP between Renzi and the USA Scandal ?!?!?
TPM
If there was nothing in the papers or missing emails that the WH and DOJ refuse to hand over, they would hand them over. I think that’s fairly obvious and I know everyone here agrees with that.
perris at 53
Point well taken on the framing difference between losing a War and losing an Occupation!
I wonder how the soldiers on the ground see it?
eCAHNomics @ 57
haha. you should see how many cc’s and bccs plus distribution copies there are for govt. memos. we kill a lot of trees around here! for every memo sent, there are literally thousands of copies. unless it’s one of those insta-declassify memos from Bush/Cheney.
cbl @ 55
Bill Moyers was on democracynow for about 45 minutes this morning. Made me mad all over again. Some of the clips he will show tonight are the W war marketing team, and, like the Jon Stewart clips, really make the point when they are stacked up next to each other.
BTW, Moyers is also doing a regular Fri nite program, starting this Friday. Josh Marshall will be a guest. He singled out Jon Stewart (”the Mark Twain of our time”) & Josh as the new media that are taking over & truth telling while the old media rot. Had a particularly nice desciption of how it works in the lefty blogs, of how all the participants contribute information, which acts like the biggest business news bureau in the world.
Bob in Arkansas, USA @ 58
they were smart enough to steal one that was easy to hoodwink. wonder if Republicans have the cojones to take their party back.
Redshift @ 66
What y’all have failed to consider is that the grass root Republicans have abandoned the party and are now here amongst you and helping to defeat the Neo-Con Republican party that now has control! How do I know this? I am one of them! The Democratic Party today is what the Republican Party used to be!
I spoke with a gay buddy of mine in my antiwar group about Rove shreiking when Sheryl Crow touched him. I questioned how Rove could possibly call himself a real, red-blooded American male. My buddy responded “Yeah, Rove is, ‘one of us,’ he’s a real queen. But yeah, he acted lke a real asshole. No manners or decency at all.”
perris @ 61
Perris – get outta here already. Me, I’m waitin’ for Henry to come on the toobz!
Perris says, “the REAL republicans will be HAPPY to reclaim their party by REMOVING the fasicists from their leadership”
Not only must these fascists be removed but they must be indicted, convicted and sentenced. For those guilty of treason they must be sentenced with the appropriate punishiment. This might get ugly but it’s imperative that those responsible for this authoritarian coup must be held responsible for their crimes. To give them a pass only assures that they will be back at some point in the future, even more threatening and dangerous.
From the Sacramento Bee:
Still doing little
Bob in Arkansas, USA — welcome home.
TiredFed @ 63
I think it’s also significant that the Washington Post has to pay attention to. (Fred Hiatt can’t just push it to A17 for his Republican pals.) While they’re a national newspaper, a large portion of their subscribers are federal workers, who understand this intimately. “Editorial decisions” could be made on other scandals that they were really executive branch matters (intelligence, war, etc.) or that they mostly involved battles between political appointees, or between appointees and Congress, but this one hits close to home.
I dunno about the difference between winning a war and winning an occupation. I think historically, war has been about taking or defending territory. and if you cannot hold the territory you have allegedly won, or keep your guy in control of the government (and they won’t be able o in the long run), how can you be said to have won the war? When you are eventually going to have to leave the country, probably in some disgrace?
TiredFed @
35
I completely agree with this. What is more, I think that many in the Dem leadership is aware of this. I am struck in my watching of the way Leahy and Waxman chair their committees, by the way in which they NEVER insult minority members, regardless of how obnoxious some of them become. Allowing a defeated foe to save some face goes a long way in war, business and politics.
But beyond that, I come from a family of old-fashioned Republicans. I come from a state which used to be populated with them (Vermont, who gave us Senators Aiken, Stafford and Jeffords). These men were genuinely “conservative” — in fact they were so conservative that they were true conservationists (if not always environmentalists, an interesting distinction!). These were the same republicans who were willing to hold Nixon’s feet to the fire (I remember the questioning of Republicans on the Watergate committee very well). And indeed they were successful in creating a firewall between their party and Nixon’s White House. Perhaps too successful–and too scared/desperate in that they subsequently allowed “facist” elements to move into positions of power (ie, the Reagan “revolution”).
Politics is always about making deals. The Dems hold the upper hand. There are obviously some very smart people in power in Congress now, and it is my hope that they are moving forward very carefully and thoughtfully. My guess is that some of the most damning truths will not be fully known until after 2008. Important groundwork is being laid now.
On that note, I was incredibly encouraged to see that Hillary turned up here yesterday, as it is entirely possible that she could be our next president. What that means is that the Dem leadership is paying close attention to the work that is being done by muckraking blogs like FDL, TPM, The Next Hurrah etc, etc. And learning from it!
If Reagan were alive, he would be a Democrat (again)!
[Modnote: please don’t requote more than twice, thank you]
Fern @ 81
Occupations are about insurgencies, and insurgencies are wars.
Good news. Waxman subpoena meeting to be webcast from House Oversight committee website
oversight.house.gov
Badreporter cartoon is super funny today!!
also on deck today, Rahm is going to make a “major speech” at Brookings -
linky
It’s not my intent to turn something so serious into something melodramatic, but Jesus Tapdancing Christ! Is Rove truly that evil?
Having dodged several bullets in the whole Libby/Fitzgerald affair, any normal human would have breathed a sigh of relief and just kept the hell to himself for a while. You know, not do anything to cause any trouble or draw attention to himself.
Not Rove! He plunges headfirst into another scandal.
Just WTF is it with this cretin?
Bob in Arkansas, USA @ 74
Good point! And the shift in party identification certainly bears that out. Not to mention anecdotal evidence — one of my good friends still calls himself a Republican, but votes for Democrats nearly all the time now, and my father was a lifelong Republican until the ‘04 election.
So as a recovering Republican ;-), do you think there’s any chance the party can recover to the point where you’d go back, or are you now a permanent Democrat (assuming they don’t screw up too badly)?
Bob in Arkansas, USA @ 74
Exactly. I might well be a Republican had the Republican Party not taken a hard right back in the late 70’s, pandering to the Christian fundamentalists. There are leaders among Dems, too, who might have been Republicans in a different time. Howard Dean is not much different than a former Republican governor in my home state, William Milliken; in some ways, Dean was more conservative, having balanced a budget for 11 years straight. It was his ability to do so while providing healthcare for all children and seniors in his state that sealed the deal for me, said enormous things about his abilities as a real conservative.
But although much of the dog-and-pony elements we will see in the hearings conducted by the Judiciary Committees and the House Oversight Committee are designed to help provide cover to Republicans who are real conservatives, there are simply not enough uncorrupted Republicans among their ranks. Remember there has been speculation that as many as 60 members of Congress were involved in the Abramoff scandals; how can we expect people whose futures hinge on voting to save their own *sses to vote along with us?
The numbers on the ground also don’t work; my off-the-cuff guesstimate about the composition of the Republican Party is 30% fundie, 25% Wall Street/investor-types, 30% racist-isolationists, with the remainder simply stuck in the now-dead worldview of Goldwater Republicans, and anti-immigration, anti-tax, anti-government sentiments running as common threads through a substantive majority of the Republican Party. How do we provide cover to that? Would we be better off to peel away key segments instead?
Bob, what worked with you?
cbl @ 68
Re the TPM story — it would make sense to me that the DOJ would, for good prosecution reasons, not reveal a document that would expose the fact that Renzi was under investigation. I’m not sure what to make of that one. Maybe I’m misunderstanding the TPM post.
TiredFed said:If Reagan were alive, he would be a Democrat (again)!
I respectfully disagree, while Regan had some really good PR going for him, he was still a Neo-Con (even if the term was not at use then)!
Well, after reading all the comments on Bloch, I too have my doubts on him. He really sounds like more of a hack than a fair prosecutor.
Perhaps Iglesias thinks his ace-in-the-hole is the un-named assistant. Time will tell.
Ghostman
Scarecrow @ 18
the conference report on the iraq war/occupation supplemental (h.r.1591) funding is out. i haven’t read it yet, but it is reported as stripping out language for a binding withdrawal.
my bold.
hopefully bush will veto.
Bob in Arkansas, USA @ 92
that’s ok Bob. It was a bit tongue-in-cheek. Some maroon said yesterday that JFK would be a Republican if he were alive today. Just had to point out that Reagan was a Democrat before he switched. And I certainly agree his advisers were neo-neocons. They scared me back in the day.
Scarecrow,
you are correct about the TPM story and I think they were making the point that nowhere in the voluminous doc dumps was the ‘contact’ mentioned
mui @
56
Think of it another way. Iglesias is mad. So he’s reminding Renne he is relying on him. Don’t give up hope folks.
eCAHNomics @
57
And they remembered to wipe all the hard drives of all the machines they were created or amended upon? Doubt it.
Rayne @ 90
I realized during the Ray-Gun administration and it’s dishonest dealings (Iran-Contra, amongst others) that lack of morals and no fiscal responsibility that the party that I was a life long member of was, so to speak dead and reincarnated as the “New Republican” party. I think that if you look at the members of congress today, that you will not find more than a few that are actually true Republicans. Ok, I’m now going back into lurk mode, have a wonderful day!!
BTW, for all you Iglesius fans, remember that he DID NOT report the inappropriate political contact about his cases. Leopards & spots & all that.
cbl @ 96
Yep, I just can’t see how they could have revealed the contact without prematurely disclosing the investigation.
Slightly OT — I don’t have time to look up the comment and give proper credit, but a commenter last night said that Harry Reid is getting hammered by negative calls on his war stance, so give his office a call of support if you can.
Bob in Arkansas, USA @ 65
I have to agree. What we are seeing in this administration is the very essence of Republicanism. They’ve always been the party of the wealthy, the party of big business, the party that wraps themselves in the bible and the flag. We saw similar disregard (even contempt) for the constitution in Nixon, Reagan, and Bush I.
The mainstream conservatives and Republicans want to “drown the government in the bath tub.” They should therefore be allowed nowhere near the government, except possibly for “supervised visits.”
The people at CREW aren’t too thrilled with the choice of Bloch and the OSC to handle this investigation. There seems to be a good possibility that this is just another piece of WH misdirection and obfuscation.
From the WaPo: Four Republican Senators cross the aisle on Gonzo.
“Get Out Get Out Now” is the Message to Gonzales
“I don’t think the attorney general has served the country or the president particularly well,” Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) told the Washington Post Tuesday. “I think there is a huge credibility issue at the Justice Department,” added Sen. Norm Coleman (R-Minn), “I continue, even after his (Alberto R. Gonzales’) testimony, to have grave doubts.” Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.) added a temporal component to his concerns. “I think the attorney general is on a tightrope and he and the president need to make a decision before very long,” he said. “He’s a distraction,” added presidential hopeful Mike Huckabee, another prominent and well-respected Republican.”
http://blog.washingtonpost.com…..st_27.html
Bob in Arkansas, USA @ 99
Don’t lurk overmuch, come out and comment more frequently. If we are going to win over moderates who are real conservatives, we need guidance from folks like you. Thanks for sharing as you have this morning.
selise @ 94
From the WaPo:
Sounds like lots of benchmarks, a firm deadline to start leaving, and a goal of finishing.
Sounds like a nightmare for Bush: the start of accountability on the war.
He’ll not only veto it, but he’ll do it fast, with a bunch of military uniforms and flags behind him, and a bunch of microphones in front of him.
With luck, he’ll also take questions . . .
selise @ 94
I see where they deleted section 1320 that had all the specific language re: phased redepoyment, reports, benchmarks, etc. dont see the nonbinding language yet.
Redshift @ 102
Thanks for the reminder. Good idea. Anyone have the phone numbers handy??
When you step back and look at it, the Democratic Senate Majority Leader has been on national tv saying that the President of the United States is in denial and that he is too dishonest to be trusted. He’s been the point man and the entire right wing wurlitzer is firing at him — and he hasn’t backed down. I saw his speech yesterday, and he looked like a man very worried about his country, but having the courage to take on the leadership role at a time when most sane folks realize that we have to remove an entire regime from office.
I don’t have to agree with every statement he makes — I can recognize the courage.
Redshift @ 102
good idea!
reid is taking the heat for portraying the funding bill as requiring bush to start bringing the troops home and end the war. while the bill doesn’t really do that (as far as i can tell), i’m glad reid is challenging bush rhetorically, if not legislatively.
selise @ 94
I don’t like it, but the reason I’m willing to cut them a bit of slack is that the binding timetable couldn’t pass the Senate in the first place, so I doubt they’d be able to get it passed in the final bill. (And not passing the final bill would be bad.) Bush will veto it; he’s been saying so for weeks, and he cares more about looking “weak” than about cleverly getting the funding.
I hope they go with the post-veto plan from Murtha (and others) to provide funding for two or three months at a time, so we can have this debate repeatedly and peel off more Republicans each time.
Reid:
(202) 224-3542
Iglesias is mad because Iglesias is right. He’s standing on principle, Rove be damned.
Bob from AR says:
What y’all have failed to consider is that the grass root Republicans have abandoned the party and are now here amongst you and helping to defeat the Neo-Con Republican party that now has control! How do I know this? I am one of them! The Democratic Party today is what the Republican Party used to be!
* * *
To that I say, and the little democrats are going to take our party back too. Welcome along for the ride!!
Great post….
Time, time, time
When will the TRADOC 4 Star General release his report on the Tillman cover-up?
How long will Bloch take for his “mistakes
were made” conclusions?
Grant Monica immunity NOW. Issue subpoenas NOWask questions later.
The Bushies are playing out the clock.
Jack
New thread with special guest Senator John Kerry.
FDL Book Salon: John Kerry And This Moment On Earth
Please stay on-topic and be respectful. People are welcome to stay on this thread to discuss other topics.
Rahm could give a bellweather speech today – one that may dramatically intensify the national dialog.
Waxman time!
Peterr @ 107
Bush has spent his entire life avoiding accountability. With an an innate ability at it, it’s hard to see that changing now. Republics may be held accountable, but not Bush.
Peterr — I agree with your take, that the way the bill is structured presents a real problem for the WH — which means that they will have to mischaracterize it beyond recognition.
There is a huge debate in the blogs about what to say about this. I think we should focus on making sure everyone explains it correct.
I have no illusions that the Congress can force this Admistration to end our military occupation. I’ve said here that the only way this, or any other of the Bush nightmares, can end, requires that the entire regime be removed from office. Given that, I view the bill as a helpful weapon in that fight and don’t judge it on whether it “ends the war.”
Both House and Senate bills have always assumed we leave troops around to fight terrorism. But that is so broadly defined you could park the Bush policy under it. The regime is the problem.
eCAHNomics @ 57
I thought about that as well. i.e. the shredding truck outside of Cheney’s residence. Then they will need to look at the PC’s that generated those memo’s.
Senator Kerry has arrived and is commenting.
Redshift @ 111
i’m pretty much in agreement with your analysis. i’d like to have had a vote in the senate though, so i could know which dems would side with bush.
Bob in Arkansas, USA @ 74
Which “grass-roots Republicans”? The bible-thumping Republicans? The VFW Republicans? The Chamber-of-Commerce Republicans? The William Buckley Republicans? Or the ones that used to throw darts at pictures of Elanor Rosevelt at their campus meetings?
The only thing that tied them all together was that the smug respectability that being a Republican gave them. And that’s what they’re missing now. But they’ll revert to Republicanism just as soon as its respectability returns.
eCAHNomics @
100
That’s why he’s so mad at getting fired. The people who unpick all of this are not going to be seagreen incorruptible Firedoglake readers; they’ll be pissed-off minor loyalists who have either been under the bus, or think it might be coming for them
Waxman hearing started
RE: Iraq supplemental. The language starting on page 75 (section 1904) looks pretty binding to me. Out of Iraq 4/1/08 at the latest. Am I missing something?
Waxman on CSPAN3 & on radio also:
http://www.cspan.org/Radio/web…..p;Code=CSR
I wonder if David Iglesias and Scott Bloch know one another, like maybe they are friends.
WAXMAN LIVE NOW — VIDEO HERE!
only two subpoenas to be considered:
r.n.c. emails and condi rice.
no mzm no andrew card.
egregious @ 120
oops. sorry. trying to review Iraq supplemental and listen to Henry at the same time!
Henry has been asking questions of Rice for over 4 years with no (real) answers. He’s also hot on the RNC emails.
Who in the House is ready to take any action? Senate investigations and discussions are nice, but where is the action? Where are the measures? When is the correction?
comment re Perris at 26
DO NOT give the next presidential election to ANY republican NO MATTER how much he/she promises recovery, or to reclaim the party back to its original, non-Bushwhacked form. They need to sit out a term or two for not coming to the aid of this country SOONER.
Note: staying here so as not to go OT on Sen Kerry’s thread. dang. the phone is ringing!
TiredFed @ 125
i’m not reading yet… listening to waxman now (and watching the kerry discussion). hope you will be around later to discuss.
thanks for leaving page numbers to check….
Scarecrow @ 118
Forgot to include the link to the WaPo article.
And I agree — this bill isn’t going to end the war, but it’s one more piece of forcing some accountability onto the White House. Those who are trying to work against them from the inside need to know that they have allies on the outside, and this bill helps to make that clear.
selise @ 133
will be here.
Waxman is saying that the WH has basically complied on the MZM contracting issue, so that’s off the table for today.
Andrew Card’s subpoena consideration has been put-off until tomorrow.
RNC computers have been used for ‘official’ communitcations – Waxman is asking for a limited number of e-mails, being carefully targeted – but the RNC has not be fully cooperative, including still not disclosing the 50, or so, WH aides with access to the RNC system. Subpoenas are on the table today for this item.
For 4 years Waxman has been trying to get answers from Sec. Rice on Iraq War run-up issues, and yet so far no compliance – “we’ve hit a brick wall with the Sec. of State.” A Subpoena for Sec. Rice is on the table for today – she is giving us “no choice” but to seriously consider the subpoena option.
Opening discussion to members now.
Wigwam @ 122
Wow, you really lumped a diverse group together in you statements, if you check your history, you will find that most (but not all) of the aspects you describe were actually acquired from the Democratic party starting in the mid 50’s. The older Republican (or former) holds very similar thoughts on government as most Democrats. I do sense a bit of animosity on your part toward people who have made the shift, perhaps you could explain why this is a problem for you?
Henry is on fire. Says Chairman has authority to subpoena. Dan Burton did it a thousand times (smack). But today, Henry is asking for a consensus (not sure about a vote) from the entire committee. Of course, Tom Davis is being a concern troll.
Davis is whining at the Waxman hearings. “The subpoenas before us today are overreachng. You are doing it for the cameras.”
OT but Waxman subpoena request hearing: Bulletin: Tom Davis is still an a**!
Davis thinks Condi’s time is too precious to bother with answering silly oversight questions. Grr.
haha. Marcy is gonna have a field day with Tom Davis. wondering why Henry hasnt hired here yet.
TiredFed
Waxman hearings, Kerry chat, the Iraq supplemental, and now the phones?
No wonder you’re tired.
;)
Davis: Rice answered most of the questions in the subpoena. The DOS had “bent over backwards” to respond
Davis: SSCI, Silberman Committee, and the Brits – all reviewed this Niger issue. Move along folks, nothing to see here.
Bob in Arkansas, USA @ 137 says:
Because most of those folks listed jumped to the Republic party as a knee-jerk reaction against integration, women’s rights and the anti-war movement. I.E., they were trying to turn the clock back to the “simpler time” when everyone knew their place and no one dared question the rulings of the patriarch and ruling classes.
The ever parboiled-appearing Davis’ faux concern w/overreach & camera posturing is fun, isn’t it…
Davis: Oh my, he’s a liar. He just said that the questions also ask why the State Dept is against needle exchange programs. Davis “DUH, they are against the law”
Um, not in NY they’re not.
Did I just hear Davis say, in his best Valley Girl voice, “Duh!”?
Bush increasingly isolated, hunkering down in the bunker; his Gonzo re-endorsement backfiring; GOP beyond frustrated:
David Iglatius @ WaPo, via ThinkProgress:
“This is the most incompetent White House I’ve seen since I came to Washington,” said one GOP senator. “The White House legislative liaison team is incompetent, pitiful, embarrassing. My colleagues can’t even tell you who the White House Senate liaison is. There is rank incompetence throughout the government. It’s the weakest Cabinet I’ve seen.” And remember, this is a Republican talking.”
p.s.: OT
“Enron: Smartest Guys in the Room”, making the rounds on PBS. CATCH IT! A scathing look back at how we got started down this path, including the California energy rape & GOP-led gubernatorial recall, Bush family ties, and Enron’s plan to trade weather futures. Pure evil in a can.
Linky to Tom Davis statement:
http://republicans.oversight.h…..NewsID=146
Breaking news from Davis
Condi is busy
Davis says ‘there’s no evidence that any manipulation occured in the run-up to the War.’
Sec. Rice has a busy schedule, says Davis – is this really the best use of her time?
Helen @ 144
Funny, I didn’t realize that answering “most” of the questions was an option. It wasn’t back when I was at DOS.
Of course, that was a long time ago.
Davis: Whine, whine, whine – please don’t investigate us. “slow down, take a longer view” STALL STALL STALL
Waxman – Yeah thanks, Tom. Let’s vote!!
radiofreewill @ 153
haha. that’s what Henry is after – evidence!
dang. lost the feed. keep up the comments folks.
Three Subpoenas being considered, total. Each to be taken up separately.
First,
1 – Committee subpoena RNC for docs on e-mails re: WH officials with RNC accounts plus statistics.
Statements to be read.
dakine01 @ 146
Because most of those folks listed jumped to the Republic party as a knee-jerk reaction against integration, women’s rights and the anti-war movement. I.E., they were trying to turn the clock back to the “simpler time” when everyone knew their place and no one dared question the rulings of the patriarch and ruling classes.
Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but no matter what you say or think, those are the people that will not come back to the Democrats. I’m sorry that you seem to have such a dislike for those of us that have left the Republican party and are fully supporting the movement toward a government that represents “All” the people instead of a select few, but I do not really think I or anyone else could cause you to understand that we are not the enemy, nor are we out to steal your party from you!
Gunga, finally got to see it last night and will tivo it again – unfortunately it confirmed what I had suspected all along – despite their numerous crimes, much of what they did was unethical and not necessarily illegal – thanks congress !
but my personal fave -
“Hypothetical Future Profits”
yee gawd
Waxman – first up = RNC emails. Abramoff, the GSA power point, and the USA firings – there is evidence that the RNC emails were used to hide this. Failure to preserve emails. We have sought basic info – we’ve sent 4 letters. RNC has not responded. We have been stonewalled. New letter this morning sent to Henry with incomplete info. Names 37 account holders in the letter but we know there are at least 50
got video over at CNN.com
Waxman statement re: RNC Subpoena
Use of RNC e-mails to conduct official WH business is a serious issue – including possible violations of the PRA.
RNC has not been responsive: slow-walking and stone-walling. Who are the 50 WH users?
I’m calling for a subpoena today that gives two weeks to provide the e-mails, and schedule testimony for two weeks from today.
Passing the mic.
Henry: Mike Duncan head of RNC has been asked to appear in two weeks in front of the committee.
Davis: We haven’t seen a copy of the subpoena.
There he goes again, boys and girls. Davis said he got nothing in the Plame thing, didn’t get the questions from the Tillmans and now this. I said it yesterday. It’s his excuse for being unprepared.
Henry: oh yes you did so get it.
Doncha just LUV when the Republics start whining about fairness and following the rules?
TiredFed @ 158
might try c-span radio (lower bandwith requirement)
Helen, Radiofreewill, et al –
Thanks! Listened to opening by Hank and Davis(f*ck off, Tom) on CSPAN radio, but now am back at work.
Please hit the highlights for me if you are able.
You guys (gals) are the best! PEACE
Souder(R) Ya didn’t tell us anthing till 10:45 last night. The majority misled us.
dakine01 @ 166
Wah! We didn’t get anything until late last night, wah!!
selise @ 167
I just found the hearing and began recording immediately – about 8 minutes ago. We can combine if you like.
dakine01 @ 166
yeah. how ironic, eh? guess they missed the fact that Henry can do this without comment or vote anyway.
Does anyone else think all this parliamentary whining smacks of desperation?
Jeesh!
Waxman to Souter: F*ck-off a**hole.
wow. lots of whining. go get em Henry.
Souder is a putz – he’s one of the ReThugs who drew a short straw today.
Perris 26, I totally agree.
Mica: whine, whine, whine
Souder: you’re lying to us!!! Re: subpoena for people to testify you don’t have a timefram”
BWA HA HA Republicans like timeframes!! That’s news to me.
Souder: “Withdraw it all.”
BWA HA HA Republicans want withdrawal
Henry: Yes we did so tell you everything you need.
Nola Sue @ 173
desparation, running out the clock, etc. SOP for republicans. dang. another parliamentary inquiry from the Republicans!
Wax to Mica: F*ck-off a**hole.
newtonusr @ 171
excellent! sadly, i have not been recording the audio… and i think the fire works may be of interest to others…
They’re figuring out the damn parlimentary rules. Oh and Code Pink is there
man, they are really desparate. I dont recall this many stall tactics when the Repubs took over!
maybe they are trying to bore us to death by parliamentary inquiries so we will all go away! dont fall for it!
Shorter Henry: Elections have consequences!
Mica: “I’m trying to speed the process up. Can I go first?”
Squealing by the Repubs on parlimentary issues regarding committee rules.
Waxman waves this off as not germaine to the business of the day.
Repubs want to ‘offer an amendment’ to the proposed subpoena action. Waxman says he’s open to considering it later in today’s proceedings.
Repubs are attempting to determine just how ‘unilateral’ Waxman intends to be on the subpoena issue (by the rules, Waxman can issue subpoenas with no discussion at all.)
eCAHNomics WAY back….
Occupation being an extension of war…..
IMO, not actually, though it is reasonable to confuse the issue in Iraq’s case.
The war was over at GW’s moment of “Mission Accomplished”. The aggro we suffer from in Iraq today is the result of our incompetent and useless job at the ensuing occupation, so that we instantly forfeited the goodwill many Iraqis felt at the moment of “Mission Accomplished!” They saw immediately that they were swapping a fierce and dangerous dictatorship for a completely lawless and non-reconstructing mixed gang mixed of swaggering incompetents and serious institutional looters and thieves.
“So you sow, so shall you reap!”
Henry is doing a good job keeping his cool with this crap.
the house judiciary committee
has voted immunity for
monica goodling, and a subpoena
for her testimony. . . LIVE HERE
at the house.gov site — real media file.
YEAH REP. JOHN CONYERS!
GO MICHIGAN! OR GO HOME!
TiredFed @
184
That’s cuz the Dems were adults even when in minority. The Republics are so used to ahving their own way for a dozen years, that they still can’t quite grasp that THEY LOST! So they continue to whine like five-year-olds.
wow. lotsa pink in the audience!
Repubs offering amendment. Now reading the amendment.
Move the committee add a subpoena for Sandy Berger?
Discussion.
nolo @ 191
sweet. cant multitask any further. wish I was 30 years younger!
finally! me and the Chimp have something in common – all I wanna do is rub that little bald head – god bless you Henry!
and ooh nolo, another balding pate I’d like to kiss – Go Conyers Go !
Amendment: Talking about Berger archive thingee. Wants to compare and contrast how Clinton handled presidential records??
nolo @ 191
nolo – as we discussed the other day… Do we know yet whether immunity compels Goodling to testify, as opposed to just withholding jeopardy?
Mica – we do nee dto look at the Prediential records act visa vi Sandy Berger. An egregious example in the handeling in the previous administration.
Mica—But, but Sandy Berger!! And he used my name in vain. Disgraceful.
Mica is unbelievable! He is actually requested they add a subpoena for Sandy Berger! Clinton did it, Clinton did it! Unreal!
They won’t leave that Berger bone alone
nolo @ 191
EXCELLENT!!!!!
Rayne @ 9
It is interesting that Iglesias was so forthcoming on Hardball. His reference to a “reservist” may be the tip of an internal administration mutiny iceberg. People like Iglesias are proud of their GOP history-they can’t be proud of this version of it and may want to demonstrate that there are GOOPers who are capable of doing the right thing before the entire GOP ship sinks under Capt W. This could get very interesting.
Oh my f*ckin’ Gawd! Here we go with Mica on the “Sandy Berger, Sandy Berger, Sandy Berger” “He did it he did it he did it” crap again.
for crying out loud, the Berger affair is over. it went to court already. dang, they are desparate.
dakine01 @ 205
Oh if they could only turn back the hands of time….hahahahaha
Aren’t they stretching? What does Sandy Berger’s past actions have to do with the price of tea in China? And if this was such a huge thing, WHY didn’t they do something about it within the last 6 years?
laurie9 @ 11
Considering torture is supposed to be okay whenever our government is threatened, I say yes, haul her sanctimonious little Regent University behind in there, put the klieg lights on her a make her talk! ;|
newtonusr @ 198
it compels — under the related subpoena.
debit @ 208
It’s called delay, deny, obfuscate, cover-up anything to avoid the light.
omg. 4 cups of coffee and have to listen to Mica!!! I gotta take a break.
Mica: “In fairness we should expand this.”
debit @ 208
get this to Henry’s staff.
nolo @ 210
Lovely! Thanks.
Ok, the GOP is equating Sandy Berger’s mis-handling of classified docs as precedent-setting for the current RNC situation.
It’s a stretch…mainly seems to be a ‘talking point’ rebuttal for the purposes of setting a combative ‘but Clinton did it’ tone on Talk Radio.
Obfuscation and diversion is going on by the Repubs.
This ridiculous amendment should get shot-down post haste.
ARRRRGH!
wait! wait! wait!
vote hasn’t been taken yet on
the goodling subpoena — they are still
taking statements — my bad.
soon, though — listening to
two streams on two laptops now. . .
Waxman: The matter before us is the point of order. We gotta talk about what we’re here to talk about.”
Davis: “Henry does have the right to issue a subpoena on his own.”
Suggestion for Waxman to smack Mica with: If this was so important to you, Davis should have brought it up to this committee over the past 5 years.
Unbelieeeeeevable!
Hey Nolo, Thanks for your links to the committees. They are handy and they work better than my bookmarked stuff.
Not that I have much stomach for some of their drivel this morning – - urgg.
Helen @ 197
Oh, you don’t really want to go there, do you? I don’t recall 5 million missing emails, sealing up a predecessor’s papers, etc. from the Clinton administration.
Okay, for anyone who did not catch O’Reilly’s latest expose on the liberal left’s iron grip on the media, it’s official now that Bill Moyers is another Soros operative.
Moyers:
“Must…criticize…war…proponents…in… soft…genial…tones.
Must…criticize…war…proponents…in…soft…genial…tones.”
McHenry: Because this is all about the Presidential Act the Mica motion is germain. If the chair rules against us he his playing a political game just to get RNC emails. If he does that I will appeal.
Sandy Berger pled guilty 2 years ago.
Helen @ 223
Appeal to whom?
Frankly, re the discussion of who’s a “true republican” and who isn’t: not-for-nothin, but I DON’T CARE. What the Republican Party has done to this country in six short years is grotesque and obscene and will take generations of best efforts to undo. I look forward to the day, and i hope it comes soon, when the labels “Republican” and “conservative” will come to be seen as descriptors (and predictors) of behavior that is criminal, ruthlessly self-dealing, self-aggrandizing, parasitic, anti-democratic, pathologically duplicitous, and inherently untrustworthy–since that is what those terms have come to mean anyway.
To anyone who self-identifies as a Republican at this late date, I would say: I know what you are, and I’ve seen what you do, and while I might work with you to pass legislation that (let’s say) undoes some of the damage you’ve caused, I wouldn’t trust you as far as I could spit, and will work to get you OUT of the government as fast as I can.
Someone upthread used the term “uncorrupted Republicans.” That’s an oxymoron; there ain’t no such animal. If Lurita Doan becomes the poster image of the Republican party in the public mind, that’s as it should be.
I must not be feeling remotely “big-tent” at the moment, because my message to lapsed Republicans who are sticking their noses into the Democratic tent and wanting the party to skew to THEM is, “go Cheney yourself, we’ve got WORK to do–thanks to your votes for George Bush, a LOT of work–so get the **** out of the way.”
Bob in Arkansas, USA @ 137
Prior to the fifties, in the South, these constituencies were probably Dixiecrats. It’s my impression that in the rest of the country they were and still are the grass-roots Republicans.
In my experience, all it takes is a bit of economic difficulty to cause a grass-roots Republican to drop the bullshit about “individual iniative,” “risk taking,” and the rest of their social darwinism. The “make the shift” and become temporary democrats favoring all kinds of government involvement against the unseen hand. But the minute prosperity returns so does the smugness, the Republicanism, and the lectures about the “miracle of free enterprise” and the workings of the unseen hand.
Some people call it “crybaby capitalism.”
oops, typo @ 150
David IgNatius @ WaPo, not David Iglatius @ WaPo
cbl @ 161
I’ve always felt that hijacking the 6th largest economy on Planet Earth could be considered criminal. (I also felt the tremors a few thousand miles away, as the CA rolling blackouts crippled tech industries that directly affect my livelyhood.) Won’t even go into critical safety & life support issues that were disabled as traders laughingly pulled powerplants off-grid.
And then of course, there’s India & Enron’s trans-national gas pipeline failure…the one that occurred just before Rumsfeld began to explain that “There’s no targets in Afghanistan…Iraq has targets”.
I digress
have a good day, all.
catchya later
looks like the Republicans are going to hijack this meeting. It’s not even a hearing.
get to the vote Henry.
Classic stall. Classic.
Henry still being gracious and bending over backwards for the Republicans. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing.
House Parliamentrian rules Mica (Sandy Berger) amendment not germaine.
Henry: Parlimentarian said Mica motion is not germain.
Another amendment (from Issa). Can just imagine what this is about. HAHAHAHHAHA adding DNC!
Motion: Subpoena to DNC regarding their email policies.
Oh Gawd. No wonder nothing ever gets done!!
TiredFed @ 229
Somehow, I don’t think Henry will get hijacked. He’s got the tenacity and patience to wait these folks out. Hell, he waited YEARS to get into that seat again . . . he can wait for another hour or so to get his subpoenas.
And judging by his reactions to Condi’s lack of response to earlier requests, making Henry wait does not make Henry happy.
Repubs saying amendment is germaine. If the PRA is in question as part of this subpoena, then Berger’s actions are germaine.
Repubs seeking an immediate vote on amendment.
Chairman Waxman rules: Amendment proposal is outside the scope of this consideration.
We’re going to vote on this specific Subpoena wrt the RNC.
Repubs are squirming hard and fighting to get the amendment voted on immediately. Waxman easily clarified that the amendment is not germaine, according to the parlimentarian.
Another amendment being read:
Move to amend motion to add subpoena for all DNC e-mails to verify compliance with the PRA.
more stalling…
unbelievable. asking for info between WH and DNC in last admin. wow.
one last statment, from indiana,
then the conyers-goodling votes — in
three minutes. . .
Ladies & gentleman, please recognize Exhibit A that Republican elected leaders at all costs value party over country.
I wish more people could see this crap in action.
Peterr @ 237
agree. should have said “trying to hijack..”
TiredFed @ 232
frustrating, but it does show how nuts the stalling is.
Towns: This is not germain. Than you for your graciousness, Mr. Chariman
Henry looks pissed.
Towns: ISSA wants to make a political point.
ISSA: This is in order. Contrary to the point that this is all about the RNC – it is not – it’s about the Pres Records Act. The question is not about the RNC, but what the president’s office did. If we’re gonna evaluate the activities of this president, we should balance the request.
Did Issa just claim this BS is about “fairness”?!?!
707!!!
‘Scuse me. I had to pick myself up off the floor.
dang. wasnt impeachment enough for them? well, it wont be enough this time, either. this is gonna come back to bite the Republicans time and time again. if you can impeach over a BJ, you can sure impeach over repeated violations of Federal law.
Once again, Dems are saying the scope of this subpoena consideration makes the Repub amendments not germaine.
Issa (R) says it’s not all about the RNC, it’s about the PRA. (This is a TOTALLY different matter, way outside the scope of this consideration.) Issa’s use of the term ‘expanding’ is the giveaway that he’s outside the scope.
dougR @ 226
I have to agree with you. I am SO done with them. Anyone who is a Republican and still supports the President is too delusional to try and reason with anyways.
The only thing I’d like to add is that both the terms “liberal” and “conservative” have been bastardized since the Clinton years. I no longer call these people “conservatives” any more because they are nothing of the kind. I call them the Radical Right.
ISSA; I’m not partisan. We should put the same burden on the DNC
Helen @ 249
Surely the R’s had every chance to do that *at the time*???
Henry is letting them make fools of themselves. Waiting for them to run out of gas. Then come the votes.
Helen @ 249
Rove has a DNC email account? By all means, then, let’s subpoena that one too!
/snark
Sandy Berger = red herring = limp flounder = Germaine Jackson.
(great theater, The GOP Stooges)
must…go…to…work [prying fingers from mouse]
;)
Davis (R) – partially caving, saying Waxman should get the RNC e-mails. However, Issa’s statement supporting the amendment to get DNC e-mails is a ‘fairplay’ issue.
Gunga Djinn @ 253
You, too, are friggin’ mess!! LOL! your comments really crack me up! Thanks for the laugh!
Ms. McCollum going to probable cause. The RNC refused to provide emails. No one ever asked the DNC to provide anything to this committee.
New non-Kerry thread by Christy Hardin Smith.
Dangling By A String
roll call vote at
house judiciary committee:
32 — ayes.
6 — nays.
and issa votes “aye”(!). . .
that is more than two-thirds in favor.
immunity and subpoena to issue.
McCollum (D) shoots down the Repubs on requesting the Dem e-mails because the RNC subpoena is the result of avoiding giving evidence – the Dems haven’t been down that path, therefore Repub amendment is not germaine.
nolo @ 258
wow. that’s pretty lopsided.
radiofreewill @ 259
Yeah, logic is like that, much to the chagrin of the “others.”
The Republicans are desperate. They are being backed into a corner and all they can do is try and muddy the waters. They are a criminal organization that should be indicted under the RICO statutes.
i’ll have a MASH-UP youtube video
of this two-ring circus — waxman’s,
and conyers’ meetings of this morning,
at my site, later this afternoon. . .
it will likely be frenetic, back-and-
forth, between the two hearing windows. . .
any suggestions for a soundtrack?
“shock the monkey“?
do tell.
I’ll keep live-bloggin in the new Christy thread
Goopers threatening to get fiesty on the RNC e-mails.
Norton (D) says committee layed specific groundwork for this RNC subpoena – nothing whatsoever has been shown to equate calling for the DNC e-mails as an equity issue.
(This is a sad attempt by the Repugs to conflate Dem and Repub e-mails as equally suspicious of violations of the PRA – that has yet to be established by this committee.)
It’s really quite stunning to compare how the NSDAP undermined the institutions of government of the Weimar Republic to serve the interests of their Party and how today’s Republican Party has tried to undermine the institutions of the American government. They have taken the lessons of history provided by the Nazis and have tried to apply them to the U.S.. They are traitors and must be dealt with accordingly.
Heading to Christy’s thread, will continue live-blogging there!
nolo @ 263
You crack me up!!! Shock the Monkey is perfect! For some reason Rock Lobster is rolling around in my brain too…(B52s) I don’t know why, probably the beat if you’re going to be cutting back and forth. Totally different feel. Might add levity to the tape. the lyrics aren’t right though.
Christopher Shays, a good Party functionary! Loyal to the bitter end. He like the rest of them will be holed up in Bush’s bunker when they are escorted out to stand trial. Traitors.
Exactly — and I can tell you how to spot when the Dixiecrats entered the GOP — the key phrase is “State’s Rights.” When their speeches began to include that, the corruption of the party was underway.
Basically, this sort of Republican would feel comfortable wearing a white sheet… Lincoln must be spinning like a high-speed lathe.
Republicans can only stall and obfuscate at this point. Hope Waxman doesn’t allow them to get away with it. Everyone knows Republicans are only loyal to their Party and their Leader. They all practice the “cult of the Leader”. They are nothing more than modern day fascists.
Mica looks like Martin Borman. All that’s missing is the uniform.
Henry – documents past cooperation by DNC and Clinton Admin wrt document requests (no matter how frivilous) and testimony. Detailed list.
nolo @ 263
How about Steely Dan’s “Stuck In The Middle With You”?
Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am, stuck in the middle with you.
Hello. I don’t have a song suggestion for today’s hearing, but I wish someone would compile chimpy’s confidence in Abu, his press statement about Reid, oh heck, just about anything w/Bush with Pink Floyd’s “Hello, (hello hello) is there anybody in there?…”
For recovering Republicans “I’m Comin’ Out, so you better get this party started…”
Couldn’t leave without addressing Doug @ 226.
The hard truth for me is I come from a family of such hard-core Republicans. I avoid talking about politics with them as much as I can because a)I feel just like you do inside and b) it wouldn’t do any good at all. Maybe I’m weak but I need to survive the family gatherings of 30 percenters, or I will be “lowbridged” like that MBA in his basketball game with Bush.
I am the family subversive. I do the bobblehead then vote my own way.
Hope you all don’t think less of me. I’m tempermentally and physically allergic to Cult of the Leader and I admit I’m still ill from high exposure to this toxin.
Hats off to you, Doug. Really.
Brisingamen @ 270
Yet, when states choose to permit medical use of marijuana, then “states’ rights” go out the window, in come the DEA, local law enforcement be damned.
when i saw bloch speak about his new found gumption, he cast his eyes down for each and every word that meant business.
he works for karl and the prez as he has for some time.
someone needs to get to that evidence before he does.
iglesias needed to support a fellow prosecutor, that’s all.
Bluetoe @ 262
You can’t say this one enough…. RNC is a CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION.
Porsupah @ 277
…erm, uh, then there’s Florida’s right to recount their ballots in 2000. Guess it depends on what yer definition of a state is. /s