(I realize that the juxtaposition of Bach's Air On A G String and the name Karl Rove seem like an odd combination. But this video was sent to me by a reader who plays with this group, and I thought it was a fantastic combination of a lovely Bach piece and the universe around us. Kind of makes you feel insignificant, doesn't it?)
I sit here this morning watching Rep. Waxman's Government Oversight committee haggle over subpoenas and oversight of the use of backdoor e-mail addresses through the RNC and otherwise by folks in Karl Rove's WH political office. And I'm awaiting news on whether Monica Goodling will or will not be given immunity and subpoenaed to testify with regard to her involvement as a bridge between the DoJ and the WH political operatives. Quite a bit of buzz in the air regarding the OSC investigation of Karl Rove's political shop in the WH – some skeptical, some hopeful, some puzzled. Scarecrow had a fantastic background piece on it this morning, and Eli hit this last night as well, nailing the essential question of whitewash or reality. I've been pulling out all the research that I can find on Scott J. Bloch, and being generous in describing it, it is decidedly mixed and, in some places, troubling.
But I keep coming back to this question in my mind, and it is something that has to have occurred to Karl Rove and his personal political minions as well: at what point does Rove's utility as chief political "strategist" (read: expert on screwing political opponents, close to and over the ethics line, on any given day) get outpaced by his even-higher-profile utility to others in the GOP as the chief target of a corruption probe which would then be held up as an example of the GOP's willingness to police their own?
I don't ask this as a theoretical construct, but as a practical question. The headlines of late have been grim on the Republican corruption and lawbreaking front: Abramoff, DeLay, Ney, Safavian, Libby, Cunningham, Doolittle, Wilkes, Lewis…it just goes on and on. Rove's loyalty has been and continues to be, first and foremost, to pushing forward "his" candidates, whatever the cost to anyone else in the party — because Rove's reputation is built on his candidates being the top dogs. And more than anything, he wants to win — whatever it takes to get there. But you do not do this without having it come at the expense of others, and that adds up to a whole lot of resentment building up over the years as you wield your power for your own good. Rove doesn't just do that with Democratic opponents, he has also built quite a reputation for doing it with Republicans that he saw as weak or disobedient.
Everything that I have been able to ascertain about Mr. Bloch, the head of the OSC, is that he is a Republican party man in terms of philosophy and actions consistent therewith – and that there are any number of questions about prior decisions in pushing investigations forward or not (H/T to Sam Graham-Felsen at alternet), burying information or not (H/T Michael Froomkin), using his position to advance certain issues or not (H/T Daniel Schulman at Mother Jones — don't miss the article illustration.) — all of this points to serving a particular agenda.
But is that Karl's agenda or his own? It seems to me that an ambitious man who reads the GOP tea leaves and realizes that the wind is no longer filling the "loyal Bushies" flaccid sails on the ship of state might begin to question just which way his reputation might better be made: protecting Karl Rove's behind or as the savior of the modern Republican party who made an example of a formerly all-powerful political smarm merchant to return the outward (if not true inward) appearance of integrity.
In other words, the man who returned an issue of electability to the party on the back of Karl Rove, whose strategies are not working out so well at the moment and whose day in the sun appears to be setting rapidly — and whose build-up of resentful chits among the Beltway establishment has grown louder and louder in terms of people being willing to now speak up about the once great and powerful Rove.
Witness this from David Ignatius:
If you want to hear despair in Washington these days, talk to Republicans. The Democrats are exulting in their newfound political power and are eager to profit from Bush's difficulties. But Republicans voice the bitterness and frustration of people chained to the hull of a sinking ship.
I spoke with a half-dozen prominent GOP operatives this past week, most of them high-level officials in the Reagan and Bush I and Bush II administrations, and I heard the same devastating critique: This White House is isolated and ineffective; the country has stopped listening to President Bush, just as it once tuned out the hapless Jimmy Carter; the president's misplaced sense of personal loyalty is hurting his party and the nation.
"This is the most incompetent White House I've seen since I came to Washington," said one GOP senator. "The White House legislative liaison team is incompetent, pitiful, embarrassing. My colleagues can't even tell you who the White House Senate liaison is. There is rank incompetence throughout the government. It's the weakest Cabinet I've seen." And remember, this is a Republican talking.
A prominent conservative complains: "With this White House, there is loyalty not to an idea, but to a person. When Republicans talked about someone in the Reagan administration being 'loyal,' they didn't mean to Ronald Reagan but to the conservative movement." Bush's stubborn defense of Gonzales offends these Republicans, who see the president defiantly clinging to an official who has lost public confidence, just as he did for too long with former defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld….
The current White House chief of staff, Josh Bolten, needs to mount a similar salvage mission, argue several prominent Republicans. They question whether he's politically adept enough. But most of all, they question whether Bolten or anyone else can break through Bush's tight, tough shell and tell him the truth. What's starting to crack isn't the obdurate Bush, but the country.
The reason that Bolten cannot launch the desperately needed rescue scrubbing of the White House is twofold: Karl Rove and Dick Cheney. The party cannot remove Dick Cheney — but Rove? That is another question entirely. I am not certain that they have the nerve to do it — not by a longshot — but I have begun to hear rumbles, and people that I know in Washington have begun to hear them, too. The blame for all of this failure has to rest somewhere.
But then again — the longer you stall investigations by Congress into real wrongdoing, and the more excuse folks in the Administration have to say "I cannot comment due to an ongoing OSC investigation.", the more time you buy to run out the clock until George Bush is out of office. And there may be value in banking on people being so relieved to be rid of him at that point that they don't care to push investigations forward any longer. But it is a huge gamble — the smarmy taint of Bush and Cheney and Rove has rubbed off on the entire Republican party, and how long those outside the inner circle will stand for that is a looming question at the moment.
These people have invested their public reputations in George W. Bush, so while they may distance themselves from him in small ways, there is not the fortitude for a wholesale repudiation just yet in a public way. Dick Cheney still wields a lot of power, publicly and behind the scenes, and he has placed tentacles everywhere in the Beltway to ensure that he gets the information that he needs on everyone when he needs it.
Karl Rove was similarly situated, but the cracks in his political apparatus have begun to show. Kyle Sampson is talking to Congress to save his own behind. Many of the most loyal political minions have started looking beyond their government salaries to more lucrative jobs in the private sector — which are hard to come by with the spectre of a federal investigation looming overhead — and so they have also begun to talk, quietly and in most cases anonymously, but in a White House where keeping your mouth shut was a badge of necessity for keeping your job, it is no longer as much of a threat with less than two years to go and a steadily ticking clock.
Washington in the Bush era has resembled nothing so much as a very tangled web, interwoven with threads of loyalty and personal enrichment and cronyism to a degree that even the most hardened politicos did not think possible. It has been stunning to watch, actually, and even more stunning to think that the "loyal Bushies" have been able to get away with it for this long. But this self-dealing regime rested on the foundation of a complicit, rubber stamping Republican Congress. The 2006 election changed that dynamic, and the fingerpointing game in Washington is a old and very intricate one — and one at which a number of the long-term Washington hands are expert.
I keep asking myself to which camp Bloch will ultimately be loyal: the Rovian loyalty bunch, the George Bush personality cult, the Republican party reputation is bigger than any one person group, or to his own potential reputation as a "giant slayer" and party loyalist who saved them all from the fetid stench of corruption before the next election cycle. The interesting tidbit, as Scarecrow pointed out this morning, is that fired USAtty and Republican David Iglesias may have been the initiator of this Hatch Act investigation by the OSC. (ThinkProgress has some transcripts of this discussion on Hardball.) It will be interesting, indeed, to see how this plays out.
As for Rove, is he tightening his hold on the strings of the complex web he has woven over the last six years, drawing some threads more tightly to him than others to strengthen its bonds overall? Or is he at long last losing that grip on the overall weave, and scrambling to keep its integrity holding at the center while threads snap off at the sides? And, if so, how long will it be in that scenario until he is left dangling by a string?
If we have learned nothing the last few years, it ought to have been to never underestimate Rove's ability to throw someone else under the bus to save his own skin. But, with an inner circle growing ever smaller by the day — how many folks are left?
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Christy!
Sweet Jane!!!!!
Well, darn it — am having trouble with the video.
Christy!!
Nolo’s got the goodies for us regarding immunity and a subpoena for Monica Goodling:
nolo @ 258
Christy Hardin Smith @ 3
are you on the committee website? working fine here.
Thanks for this, Christy. I, too, have been watching Waxman this morning as he jousts with absurd Repub parliamentary whining. Too bad more folks can’t witness the Republicans demonstrate their party-above-country mantra in action.
It’s all the same thing. The Dems are trying a hurry-up offense, and the Rs, under Rove’s pure-evil gamesmanship, are trying to run out the clock.
To abuse the football analogy a little more, we have to act like a good home crowd: make a lot of noise to interfere with their play calling.
It’s been working, and it looks like we’ve got momentum, both in terms of scandals dropping and in public opinion.
And FDL is the best-ever pep squad! Gooooo, team! (With a little end-zone dance of my own for the first!)
btw, mornin’ Redd. will be here for a few more minutes. fascinating stuff, oversight.
To add to the mix, Steven D over at BooMan has a piece up about the shared servers of the RNC & the Ohio State 2004 elections. I’m beginning to think that as busy as Rove has been, maybe all 5 million of those emails were his!
boomantribune
You want a glimpse of Scott Bloch? Check out this link at Mother Jones: motherjones link
Okay gang — I have the video link fixed at the top of the post. If you refresh your whole screen, you’ll be able to see the correct video ready to play.
Christy: ” It seems to me that an ambitious man who reads the GOP tea leaves and realizes that the wind is no longer filling the “loyal Bushies” flaccid sails on the ship of state might begin to question just which way his reputation might better be made: protecting Karl Rove’s behind or as the savior of the modern Republican party who made an example of a formerly all-powerful political smarm merchant to return the outward (if not true inward) appearance of integrity.”
This goes along with Perris’s comments in Scarecrow’s post. You would think the GOP would want to save itself by showing its independence from the neocons. Unfortunately, all the evidence of the past 6 years points to them desperately hoping to avoid a showdown with Rove.
I am of the belief that most (GOP’ers working in our govt) believe it will hit their party harder to actually confront the demons within their party so are hoping they will simply melt away in 2 years and be forgotten. I don’t see a savior in their party with the cojones to do it. They will bluster and obfuscate for 2 more years, get their asses handed to them in 08, then regroup imo.
Davis: In the draft of the subpoena they ask for the total # of emails to or from an official email account, it is already preserved and beyond our perview.
northpith at 10 — Yes, it’s a great article. I already linked it above in the piece — it has a great illustration, too. *g*
“It seems to me that an ambitious man who reads the GOP tea leaves and realizes that the wind is no longer filling the “loyal Bushies” flaccid sails on the ship of state might begin to question just which way his reputation might better be made: protecting Karl Rove’s behind or as the savior of the modern Republican party who made an example of a formerly all-powerful political smarm merchant to return the outward (if not true inward) appearance of integrity.”
ah well, a lad can dream.
Davis is a dope. The records HAVENT BEEN PRESERVED! That’s why Henry wants to subpoena the RNC emails.
Shays – there are so many huge issues we should debate: Iraq for example. I hope that sometime soon we can get back to regular order. We’re getting off track
Getting Rove into court is absolutely imperative.
Shays has the nerve to raise “our troops” like we should be paying attention to the war and not this issue.
Helen @ 17
Shays is a concern troll and nothing more.
Henry: Oh Tom they’re preserved? The reason we’re here is that we don’t know if they are preserved. We do know that 5,000,000 are missing at this point.
Davis: Under the law they are in the system. There is no ebidence that this has been circumvented.
It’s a nice piece, Christy, but isn’t there more at stake here than simple politics? Isn’t Rove really defending himself against having to defend himself in a criminal trial? With that much at stake, and the law having been broken before, Rove has much more political power than you’re saying. Look at Alberto Gonzalez who has exactly as much political power as George Bush chooses to give him. And he’s not going anywhere.
Christy, as you say, there is at least some chance that Bloch and others will see the need to salvage whatever reputation they can. They are going to need jobs in a couple of years, and “toadying syncophant” doesn’t look that good on a resume – unless you’re lining up for wingnut welfare!
jeebus. Davis just doesn’t listen. Henry pointed out that the 5 million emails werent preserved! They arent Presidential records. They arent even govt. records. They belong to the RNC.
…And I was having a bad morning until I read this. I’m reminded of Gall’s Law as I watch this unfold. When a complex system fails, it fails utterly and irreversably. I think this is what we are seeing take place, the more they try to fix it, the more it unravels.
Excellent Rahm Emanual speech at Brookings today. TPM cafe has a copy here.
tpmcafe.com link
WBetween Christy and Rahm, this afternoon may not turn out to be so bad after all.
The big difference in loyalty to BushCo Industries during the next two years probably has to do with rank. Loyal minions at the senior level can look forward to think tank appointments, law firm offers, and so forth. Mid-level minions, OTOH, can look forward to appointments with US attorneys, plea bargain offers, and bail hearings.
The midlevel minions are getting very nervous. I’m willing to bet that they’ve been watching the Waxman, Leahy, and Conyers hearings quite closely, and they can’t be terribly comforted by what they are seeing.
Christy,
Gotta admit the previous video was a bit on point as well. Who but KKKarl could epitomize “White and Nerdy?”
Henry: I’m not sure they’re all preserved.
Davis: PRA
Henry: Point of order please.
Mica: I was ruled against, but I continue to insist on appealing the ruling of the chair.
Waxman doesn’t need this…
Just do it!
The Repugs are flaming arsholes…
Mica droning on and on about Clinton.
ayahtollah of rockandrolla @ 25
huh?
I love you Henry.
Bay State Librul @ 29
No, let ‘em ramble on with their B*llSh*t. It shows them as the idiot a**es they are.
what MayDaze @ 23
what is truly needed is that they are ambitious folk who can see how to use this to their advantage in a postbush/rove g.o.p.
ambitious folk are not generally in short supply in d.c. — which offers us this false hope. and sometimes, a false hope is better than no hope at all..
Quit playing nice…
Time is of the essence…
PLeeeeeze give Monica immunity…
Mica: This is pointed in a political partisan way if the DNC is not also subpoenaed.
henry: If you have evidence of wrong-doing in Congress you should report it to the ethics comm.
Mica: I have no hard evidence; it’s just a guess
Mica: CLINTON did it too
dakine at 27 — I have to say, that “White and Nerdy” video cracks me up. But I was in more of a Bach mood this morning and thought everyone would appreciate a listen — especially given that one of our readers is playing in the group. :)
i always say — “if ain’t baroque
[the lovely bach, above], don’t fix it!”
jaw-slacking images of our place
in the grand[er] scheme, as well. . .
now, back to the micro-cosmic. . .
. . .i’ll have a MASH-UP youtube video
of this two-ring circus — waxman’s,
and conyers’ meetings of this morning,
at my site, later this afternoon. . .
it will likely be frenetic — back-and-
forth — between the two hearing
windows, on my lap-top. . .
now, any suggestions for a soundtrack?
“shock the monkey“?
do tell.
Bay State Librul @ 35
Conyers already did. This is a hearing about subpoenas to get RNC emails and Condi Rice testimony re: Niger docs.
Waxman hearing, cont’d
Goopers using favorite retort against attempts at Justice – “subpoena too broad, a fishing expedition.”
Waxman shoots down Mica’s inference that ‘wrongdoing’ has occured, tells him to bring observations of criminal misconduct up to the Congress (ie – not here, not now.)
Chair rules on point of order (DNC e-mail amendment): Not Germaine (appeal to be voted on after voting on subpoena.)
I guess Rosie is leaving the view due to contract reasons. You know the shitbag wingnuts are gonna say that their actions caused her to leave and there gonna be in major gloat mode. GRRR!
And major ups to Jane and Christy for getting Big John!
Christy (and Jane),
Thanks for prodding Kerry on oversight on the previous thread. I really hope he was serious, because there’s lots to clean up in the politicization of the govt’s scientific community.
Henry: chair will rule on point of order. Parlimentarian says tha the amendment is not germain.
Appeal of the rule.
Davis: This is within the purview. The problem is the notice we got.
Henry: If you want to know what happened at the DNC – between 1997 and 2001 this committe issued a boatload of info requests to the DNC – we got everything
Ahhh, Bach!
rat bastahd @ 12
Allus be somebody wantin’ to be boss man. It’s like tomcats and warlords — young ones challenge the old ones when they start getting weak. Eventually one of the young ones wins, and rules the turf until he starts getting creaky and one of his sons trashes his ass. We’d better be ready with a strong dose of democracy or we will see a repeat or The Bush/Rove Regime, but I would expect more force and less finesse.
Please, please, Nancy and Harry.
1.) Fix the voting, we have three Friedmans to do that or we will be (permanently* screwed,
2.) Keep the Internet free. That “Save the Children from Porn” malarky will take over our tubes.
3.) Stop the War.
So what’s the news, did the timetable come out?
And Henry pulls the SMACK-DOWN on the but but but Clinton and the DNC did it! Y-E-S!
Waxman is spanking the Republicans.
TiredFed @ 39
Thanks, Makes my day. I am elated
I could have done without that so soon after waking up.
Shorter Waxman—Well, you guys asked for every scrap of paper from the DNC back to their kindergarten art papers.
Reads the details of Republican demands for documents. Ugly.
Whoever said Henry was letting them bitch and moan just to make ‘em look silly later totally called it.
I can feel that smack all the way here in MN.
Henry citing all the stuff they got from Clinton. Lots of it bullshit requests. ANd they answered anyway. After all that was received there was no evidence that there was any wrongdoing by the DNC or Clinton WH. So if ya want the info – we have it. feel free to look at it again.
Dan Burton, a Brownshirt from Indiana, wants to say something.
Rove has the ‘goods’ and Bush knows it. And Bush is also very aware that his henchman is ruthless, which makes Bush afraid of the possible results of throwing Karl from the train. I think it’s called tacit, implied, or covert blackmail.
Bluetoe @ 53
Hey, my Congressman! (hanging head in shame)
Burton: Over 100 people took fifth or fled country? WTF is he Talkin’ about? Is he pullin’ this shit straight from his imaginaiton? JEEBUS!
Peterr @ 26
The big difference in loyalty to BushCo Industries during the next two years probably has to do with rank. Loyal minions at the senior level can look forward to think tank appointments, law firm offers, and so forth. Mid-level minions, OTOH, can look forward to appointments with US attorneys, plea bargain offers, and bail hearings.
speaking of which, anybody else think, after his performance in the hearings last week, that gonzales is even of minimal use by the corporations or consulting groups he might otherwise assume will employ him? because he really seemed to me to become the radioactive man.
Communists?! WTF?
Burton: Our subpeonas were necessary – not so much yours.
Helen @ 17
The republic party should have been worrying about Iraq years ago when they were in charge. The absurdity of everything they do and say is really showing how off the hook and unhinged they have become.
I have a nagging suspicion that the OSC investigation is just a preemptive strike against any future calls for tighter investigations on Hatch Act violations, before Congress decides to do their own investigation.
Burton: then-ranking member Waxman was trying to protect “the DemoCRAT party.”
Imbecile.
Waxman detailing RNCs non-compliance with records requests (it’s a lot.)
DNC, otoh, has provided over 600,000 docs – everything that was asked for without objection by the other side. Shorter Waxman: You bozos already have the DNC e-mails!
Burton (R) (former chairman under R majority) claiming he had to unilaterally issue over a 1,000 subpoenas without discussion because people were fleeing the Country to avoid testifying.
This is back-dating CYA by Burton – not germaine to the current issue on the table.
Burton is talking about the Clinton Administration. How pathetic are these a..holes? Traitors all.
[edited by mod]
Burton is SUCH an arrogant asshole!
Twisted Martini @ 44
is that a M*A*S*H reference?
Burton: Marc rich giving money to WH? Drug dealer giving money to Clinton’s brother. WTF??
dmg @ 66
Yes!
Henry: Second matter: Subpoena to RNC re: Power Point presentation and other similar briefings
CHS:
If we have learned nothing the last few years, it ought to have been to never underestimate Rove’s ability to throw someone else under the bus to save his own skin. But, with an inner circle growing ever smaller by the day — how many folks are left?
Hanging by a String Theory:
Every time I see someone thrown under the bus, it reminds me of the Black Hole feeding on the bright Quasar encircling it. One by one, stars fall into a Spinning Black Hole. Recall that Black Holes are collapsed stars….
In an attempt at Unified Theory, Hawking has theorized that Black Holes may eventually evaporate, emitting Hawking Radiation in the process. Calls to mind the law of diminishing returns…
On a metaphysical level, for the time being (until my understanding evolves yet again) I make the following analogy:
Black Hole:Hawking Radiation::Bushies:Snark
Shorter MetaPhysics:
Daily Show, Colbert, FDL; all Educative, all with the transformative power of Humor.
Occam’s Razor:
Laughter is the best medicine.
yers in galactic nerdiness
(((FDL)))
TS
My own post at 63
correction – ‘you already have the DNC e-mails.’
[Fixed by mod. No extra charge.]
waxman — r.n.c. e-mail
subpoena motion finally made.
Waxman – describing the Doan briefing
Bay State Librul @ 29
He’s like a cat toying with a mouse. I say let him have his moment in the sun. He’s earned it!
WRT Iglesias. I believe someone downthread mentioned that he did not turn in the phone calls from Dominici and Wilson right away.
It is not really an excuse, and perhaps he also had a sense that it would do no good to turn them in, but I think it was not until after he was fired that he really came to grips with the idea that his FRIENDS (D and W) were in fact trying to pressure him, that they had turned on him, and his loyalty to them (particularly Pete) was misplaced.
Pete had given him the job, he considered that first. It was later that all the pieces began to fall together for him.
Another aspect of this is that Alan Weh, the head of the NM Republican party, admitted proudly, in print, that he called Rove and/or saw him at a lunch meeting and demanded that Iglesias be fired.
These people feel so fully entitled. I think this is what has really gotton to Iglesias, who by all accounts, is a straight shooter. Maybe an actual Christian.
That is why he is going after it. Because all of the political tampering goes against everything he believes about the justice system.
There are a lot of people in the legal practice to believe in justice. And some of them are also Republicans, or were.
It’s really quite simple. The Republican Party took a page from history on how the NSDAP undermined the governmental institutions of the Weimar Republic to serve their Party and establish a dictatorship. The Republicans have tried the same strategy in the U.S.. They are traitors and deserve to be seen as such.
Waxman: Karl Rove has been giving similar presentation during the entire 6 years
just popping in and out, I don’t know if anyone saw this yet, from think progress
I think Monica Goodling is holding the keys to the kingdom. I think if they get her to testify under oath with a transcript, and have her describe the process between the information flow between the White House counsel, White House and the Justice Department, I believe the picture becomes a lot clearer.
in my humble opinion she’s gonna be up the dirty creak cuz she ain’t gonna talk anyway
man oh man the lake is gonna get me fired for sure, I have a jones and I can’t get enough cowbell at the lake
Oklahoma kiddo @
18
I agree, but there has to be some way to ensure he will tell the truth. I don’t believe just a subpoena will do it. They have no respect for the rule of law.
Pigman does need to plant his butt in court. Under oath. With cameras. But I don’t know how you make him tell the truth. When liars lie constantly – truth loses meaning. Their lies become their truth.
dakine01 @ 68
heh heh. i’ve still got it.
Question about Monica Goodling immunity: Does the Judiciary Committee know what her testimony will be and what they will be getting in exchange for immunity? Thanks!
Waxman moving on to the second issue:
Re: Rove powerpoint presentation to GSA.
Hatch Act violations (inappropriate political influence inside the gov) seem to have been going on for the last six years by J Scott Jennings using RNC e-mails.
WH has offered to compromise by using ’search terms.’ No dice.
This a narrow subpoena, I urge approval.
Discussion.
perris @ 78
Absolutely. She’s seems to be a “purist”, and will firewall to the end.
Issa, another goosestepper.
I imagine Karl is feeling the pressure these days – not just because he is taking my tax $$ to work for the GOP, but because there’s a very real chance he’ll soon be be blamed for the collapse of the modern Republican Party.
Perhaps that’s why he felt threatened by a 120 lb woman at the WH Correspondents dinner…
I really hate to see foul, arrogant hatchet wielders like Monica Goodling escape justice, although I understand the need to get the big fish. I guess we just have to hope for karma to get her. I’m hoping if she turns into a rat fink to save her hide she’s not going to have the lucrative GOP welfare opportunities she was hoping for.
Provacative Piece.
I read the Ignatius op/ed this morning and found it interesting.
We are reaching the point in this administration where interests are rapidly diverging. The most obvious fork in the road is between gooper congressional members and the White House. The President is hoping that history will remember him more kindly than he deserves- that means that he will try to burnish is “Truman” style image of “doin what’s right no matter what the climate” and keep throwin the dice in Ira
Issa Asshole is proposing an amendment on the limiting to language on RNC for ppt presentation to GSA. Trying to limit to only GSA?
…and wow – NPR played a clip of McCain on the Daily Show – when Stewart told him that the audience was on America’s side because they were patriots. Yowza!
peony @ 81
I have to believe that her attorneys have had to offer a “taste” in the old ways of putting it to get her off the hook.
Monica Goodling is a true believer and will protect her Leader and Party. The Christainists, not unlike the Jihadists, feel that lying is perfectly acceptable if it helps their cause.
Goodling just given immunity???????? Is that confirmed? Wow….BIG news item if true.
Ms. Smith….an article on this, perhaps?
Ghostman
Bluetoe @ 64
you know what sucks? going to a family dinner earlier this month and hearing these words from my brother: “9/11 wasn’t Bush’s fault! 9/11 was CLINTON’S fault!”
and what’s worse, his son, now in his early 20’s chime in triumphantly, “and there hasn’t been a terrorist attack in the states SINCE 9/11!”
when i refused to get into a debate about these statements with them, my brother called me “arrogant.”
help me, spock.
I think it goes like this: you “investigate” and get a little something to prosecute on, something for which a slap on the wrist would be appropriatee, and in the process, you are able to carefully cover-up and move effectively disappear all the really dirty and corrupt stuff the investigation would unearth.
Davis: we need a narrow subpoena – this is a fishing expodition.
Waxman: what do you want limited
Davis: “GSA initials;” This is something that a computer can search on and will give all docs with GSA in it. Can’t send that to GSA.
I can see Issa trying to talk himself out of crap his whole life
dmg @ 93
Well, there was an anthrax attack.
Issa wanting to do things on the cheap to save RNC money! Not that they weren’t trying to bankrupt DNC or anything.
Zee @ 79
Per “Bush’s Brain” (Moore & Slater), Rover has a history of getting his facts wrong under oath. It’s prolly that old problem of keeping all your stories straight when you ain’t tellin’ the truth.
It’s hard to fathom the lengths they’d go to to keep him off the oath-bound hotseat.
However — fantasizing here — exactly who would want leading the inquiry when he is in that spot? Waxman, who’s earned it? Whitehouse, cuz he’s so good? Kerry, doing a Fox on him, because karma’s a bitch? Hmmmm….
I want to believe that the OSC investigation will be on the up and up but I’ve got more than a motherlode of suspician that it won’t be. First anyone in this administration, obsure office or not, who has risen to the level high enough to conduct it is more likely than not of being a political hack. Aside from Fitz have we seen anybody in this play with character?
Gooper amendment: limit subpoena to narrower discovery language to avoid overly burdensome requests. Give us 90 days to produce.
Davis (R) – We can’t afford ($$$) to comply with this subpoena. You’re driving us into debt.
Waxman says this point is germane to consider.
Discussion
On the point of Iglesias, he himself said he was going to be the good party man and go quietly into the night until they besmirched him by saying he was fired for incompetence. That’s when he decided to go public. As far as I’m concerned nobody in the GOP has any honor, they all lack an ethical compass. For modern Republicans it’s always party before everything else.
dmg @ 66
“That’s highly significant!”
I’m thinking Issa wants to contain the subpoena to JUST GSA, rather than investigating it in other agencies. Shoot it down Van Hollen, SHOOT IT DOWN!
Guys and Gals: I’ve got a meeting. If it’s still going on when I’m done, I’ll pick up again.
dmg @ 93
Your brother, sad to say, would have been a sucker for the NSDAP in Germany. Let’s face it, in America there are many who when you scratch the surface are what make the rise of fascism possible.
Mutant Poodle @ 97
Well, there was an anthrax attack.
and the administration’s been all over solving that one
dmg @ 66
Ding Ding Ding! Tell ‘em what they’ve won!
Ghostman @ 92
yes — veritas! — ’tis true!
the house counsel must apply to the
u.s. district court to get the immunity
entered, now, but yes, rep. john conyers
just voted that. . . well over two-thirds
in favor!
woot!
Mutant Poodle @ 97
yes, but everyone knows that was just a c.i.a.-sponsored demonstration just to get everyone on board for the expanded definition of what WMD saddam had.
Carol Lam should run against Issa Issa Assa in ‘08.
Oops- wasn’t through!
Any way- Clusterfuck will continue to roll the dice in Iraq hopin that something good turns up- but it’s almost prayerful at this stage cause there is no rationale basis for his hopes..
Rove would like to lead a few more succesful presidential campaigns- that requires that he not only make this bullshit adminstration look a hell of a lot better than it is- but also that he prove to the gooper establishment that he hasn’t lost it. He will mostly do that behind the scenes- but it will require him to make it clear that the major errors of the Clusterfuck years were not his.
Congressional goopers want to get re-elected- and take back both houses. Some can get re-elected without doing much of anything- others will have to do a non mea culpa to get their asses out of the crack Clusterfuck built. Their jumping ship will need to be very visible and should be beginning about now. Not much Clusterfuck can do to stop em- he’ll just have to treat em like a few bad apples.
If goopers want to actually win back congress- then they may need to institutionalize the anti- Clusterfuck message- and that is VERY dangerous to the present White House.
Congressional Goopers, despite appearances, have never liked this White House. They have always known it’s problems and limitations. They have grinned and borne it under insufferable conditions- now it’s time to tell it like it is.
So there’s a very interesting climate here- but I doubt if it’s interesting enough to lead a dyed in the wool clusterfucker to seriously go after Rove…
Dems are spanking the Goopers for a really poorly written amendment.
Dems are arguing the search term approach is not valid because it would have missed some of the e-mails that have turned up, so far.
Goopers are playing for any opportunity to stall the process.
Someone needs to do a Mashup with Snoop’s Nuthin bu a g thang.
AHHHHHHHHHH, BACH!!!
Helen @ 36
((yawn))
Nola Sue @ 99: Waxman, Whitehouse, FEINGOLD…
Gooper amendment: limit subpoena to narrower discovery language to avoid overly burdensome requests. Give us 90 days to produce.
Davis (R) – We can’t afford ($$$) to comply with this subpoena. You’re driving us into debt.
Davis ought to ask Halliburton and KBR for the money. They’ve gotten enough from us to fund investigattions for the next three years.
dmg @ 93
One word..ANTHRAX!
It’s apparent from this hearing that the Republicans have a coordinated strategy to stall and muddy the process. Just what their Party political commissar would expect of functionaries.
So this current discussion over documents has the Republicans pleading poverty as far as RNC is concerned. They don’t want the RNC to have to go further in dept by having to produce further documents unnecessarily. At the same time the WH and government departments have been using taxpayer money on political RNC business.
This needs to get out to the general public.
dmg @ 110
Just like everyone knows the bush administration was complacent in 9-11 because he needed to invent a reason to attack Iraq.
Now if Whitehouse were in charge of the investigation, we’d get the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Your brother, sad to say, would have been a sucker for the NSDAP in Germany. Let’s face it, in America there are many who when you scratch the surface are what make the rise of fascism possible.
there are terrorist attacks on Americans every single day…EVERY SINGLE DAY and they are BECAUSE of the presidents moronic policy
your brother chooses to SELECTIVELY choose to ignore the attacks on Americans overseas becasue that is all he has
in addition, there is no doubt the president was told with PRECISE intel there would be an attack, where, when, who, how and the targets
he ignored that intel even though it was HAND DELIVERED it was so urgent
contrast with clinton, who given an almost identical briefing PUT THE COUNTRY ON HIGH ALERT and the tragedy was avoided
evey single one of bush’s aids said clinton did MORE then requested, everyone also says bush did less
hit your brother in the face with THOSE facts
Issa claiming that subpoena would be using fed dollars to target RNC in order to influence elections? Like that isn’t WHAT the ddamn subpoena is all about!
Now Shays whining that we’re in Russia using gov’t money. Oh. My. God. He says he’s going to vote to sustain Chair’s ruling even though he disagrees.
nolo @ 109
Full or limited immunity?
Lemme apologize in advance for asking a question that’s kind of in the weeds here, but I didn’t get a chance to watch the hearings and maybe someone who did, knows the answer>
Was the immunity that the Committee voted to offer Goodling, Use Immunity or Transactional Immunity?
thanks in advance.
Shut up Shays, you should have thought of that when you all impeached Clinton
Charles Emerson Winchester III @ 115
Actually, think Radar.
Shays doesn’t see the difference from open hearings conducted by Congress and his Party trying to game the system in secret. Pathetic
Poor RNC!
Elliott @ 123
Just having the Senator from RI at the periphery is comforting, though.
dakine01 @ 111
:) That can be interesting.
They want us to just trust them??
Are the repubs really complaining they weren’t included in the process???
Hubris!
Now Davis wants to be friends. Isn’t that sweet?
dakine01 @ 125
Good thought, Shays. Nice attempt, but no such luck today. Hehehehehe
Zee @ 134
Like that isn’t why things are in the mess they are now!
Davis is crying about the RNC having to spend hundreds and thousands of dollars in legal fees. States it is an overreach. I hope someone points out that the fact that the WhiteHouse chose to bypass the proper channells and use the RNC emails.
Bluetoe @ 106
you’re not wrong. i’ve been in denial for years, having avoided discussions with him about anything substantial since, i don’t know 1980? am disheartened more about his son.
these aren’t ignorant folk. they’re well-educated, well-off, jewish and living in massachusetts. i call it “the dershowitz contagion.”
Uh-oh, TPMmuckraker says DOJ gets to object to immunity if they feel it will “interfere” with existing or possible investigations. I smell a loophole for squelching her testimony.
Wax just slapped Shays down on his Russia BS.
They still don’t understand that the administration and all who support their failed policies and disgusting behavior over the last six years …HAS LOST ALL CREDIBILITY!
Don’t play nice with Republicans. People in Germany that tried to play nice with the NSDAP were rudely awakened as to the true nature of the fascists.
Dems are suggesting that Rove’s powerpoint may have involved channeling federal money and resources to aid with Repub election efforts.
(Goopers want to stall any breaking news until after lunch.)
Davis claims the ‘minority’ GOP is being abused by the Dems.
Waxman reiterating the lack of RNC compliance – says subpoena first, then talk about terms and such.
dakine01 @ 142
I love Henry :) :)
tbsa @ 122
well, duh.
[nesting quotes watch - mod]
Zee @ 143
They understand. It’s the acceptance that’s so hard on ‘em. My heart bleeds…NOT!
Until recently, Bush could appear to be a Republican, and the Republicans could fantasize that they were on the same team as Bush. But the Bush rhetoric is “you are either with us (Bush/Bush/Bush), or you are with the enemy.” As push comes to shove, Republicans will realize that Bush has just boxed them into a corner. Maybe they already have, but what to do now? He _is_ still the president, and he intends to push his unitary executive theory up the ass of anyone who crosses his path.
I think the Dems have finally figured it out: it is better to provoke Bush and create a media interest. Then Dems at least get on the news, and Bush Co. gets all off message, needing to attack and defend.
Issa amendment being voted. Nos appear to have it. Burton objecting cuz the Rethugs aren’t there to vote. Burton moved to roll call committee, Wax agrees. Moving on to Condi
Diane Watson now asking the children to stop playing so that they can all get down to business. Looking at her watch, says we all have business to do.
GO Diane Watson.
I love it when mom steps in and says ok, enough, children!
Nola Sue @ 99
Let’em tag-team it. But I want Emptywheel at their elbow.
Wow! We’re going to vote on the Issa amendment.
Waxman calls for ayes and nays – the nays have it.
Third proposal: Subpoena Rice
Statement by Waxman
Condi subpoena on fabricating Niger story. Wax “disappointed in Condi failure to appear voluntarily leading to this point.”
To answer your post’s question (when is Rove’s utility as Brain no longer worth keeping him around): probably never. Rove is as firable as Bush is impeachable.
TomJ @ 149
bingo bingo bingo
each and every time a democrat provokes bush or cheney their approval ratings SOAR
they need to get on that program like rove on gets on little boys and male prostitutes
perris @ 156
actually, rove needs to get OFF the little boys.
Wax covering Condi defense of 16 words after SoU even after information had been discredited prior to soU.
Texas Betsy @ 126
the goodling immunity is “use” immunity.
it is operative ONLY after the
subpoena issues — and the u.s. district
court needs to enter an immunity order.
rep. john conyers has agreed that he will
accept advice from the house of represent-
atives house counsel on how best to
move forward here. but it will happen
in a matter of weeks, not months. . .
it is front-page of the washington post now.
hope this helps.
[nesting quotes watch we must–mod]
When the shit finally hits the fan I think it will be necessary for the American people to consider the possibility of deportation and exile of certain traitors in the Republican Party. If it was done to leftists in the early 20th Century it may be time to do the same for members the radical right. Any suggestions for a fascist government that would be willing to accept America’s bad apples?
OT: Kucinich on the House floor (cspan) raising the issue of cluster bombing civilians, in Lebanon.
Bless this man..and keep him off small planes.
Bluetoe @ 160
Iraq first. After all…
But probably Paraguay.
As I’ve been saying…
It’s all over!
From TPM:
The House Judiciary Committee, by a vote of 32-6, just authorized a subpoena for Monica Goodling’s testimony and an offer of immunity.
As former U.S. Attorney for New Mexico David Iglesias pointed out yesterday, Goodling should prove to be a very valuable witness to investigators. Since Goodling acted as the liaison to the White House at the Justice Department, communications from Karl Rove or other White House officials are likely to have gone through her. As Iglesias put it, she has “the keys to the kingdom.”
But watching the snowball of exposed corruption pick up size and speed heading downhill warms my heart like you wouldn’t believe.
I know Rove has that greased pig quality about him, but between this and the e-mails Harry Houdini couldn’t get him out of this one.
(Or “David Copperfield” for the youngsters in the audience.)
As a cherry on top of what’s turning out to be an excellent day, don’t forget Bill Moyers’ “Buying the War” tonight @9pm on PBS stations. The bill comes due for the media!
dakine01 @ 162
Plenty of brush to clear in Paraguay.
dakine01 @ 162
Didn’t they just discover a new planet yesterday?
Nixon threw Haldeman and Erlichman over. The Bush guys are probably looking at this respective of Rove. Conclusion: what did that get Nixon? A presidential resignation. That’s what. No thanks, says Bush.
Wax just pre-empted Davis saying it has already been investigated. A pre-emptive smack-down if you will.
Eureka Springs @ 161
Second that
Given all we know of Rove and his belief that the tools of government were to be used first and foremost for his political operation it would not be unreasonable to suspect he has one hell of a blackmail file on everyone he saw as a possible weak link and/or threat. So I am inclined to think he will not go down easily and there will be much resistance to it for fear of what he might decide to release if he is going down for the count. Rove strikes me as the type of person that if he knows he is doomed will take down as many with him as possible, especially among those that aided in any way towards his doom reaching him.
Several years ago back in the first term I used to point out that since GOPers believe liberals/lefties are terrorist sympathizers that they would be able to self justify spying/investigating all their political opponents and then using anything they found out from it as private leverage. Given all we have seen come out in the past few months regarding the way the DoJ was perverted for partisan electoral purposes I fear this concern of mine will end up being proven out as having actually happened. Which means whatever else this is going to be extremely ugly.
Bluetoe @ 160
I think the traitors should be subjected to an international tribunal where the “aggrresive interrogation techniques” they claim are important will be embployed on each and everyone of them where they will obviously admit guilt when subjected to that “interrogation”
now if THAT’S not irony and poetic justice tell me what is
Oklahoma kiddo @ 166
Nixon had a brain. The Chimpenfuhrer has Rover.
Waxman has been pleading for Rice to come to the committee, but to no avail.
That Iraq had WMDs was key to supporting the AUMF. Those 16 words were critical.
Rice went on the defense and cast blame on the intelligence community for the flaws in the Niger reporting.
Detailing that Condi must have lied since her claims in June 03 were made based on forgeries when she knew they were forgeries
in April 03.
There has been no investigation into the WH’s role in the intelligence use or misuse – and Condi is key to understanding what happened there.
Davis up.
motherlowman @ 164
The Bush family loves the Saudi Royal family. They should all go there. Plus it has great Brush Ranch possibilities for W.
[nesting quotes watch we must]
Davis: But she’s so BUSY! Why she might have to stay away from Oslo.
Unfortunately I just don’t think Bloch is that smart! These guys are just a bunch of mindless followers.
GWB shorter:
“Its not whether you win or lose…its how you keep score!”
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/25/bush-bombs/
*Note: Newest catch phrase…“Enemy of Moderation.”
[Yea those Mods piss me off too! *wink]
Texas Betsy @ 165
Fire up the rockets!
[nested quotes watch we must–mod]
The Moyers special is important because once the case is made and substantiated for lying us into war, can war crimes be far behind?
I’ll take that one myself…
Uh, no.
Davis concerned a Condi subpoena will interfere with all her diplomatic travel.
I have a suggestion. She can postpone buying more Ferragamos!
Badwater @ 173 says:
I’m thinkin’ the Saudi Royal family no longer returns the love.
somebody please tell Tom Davis to stfu.
he’s making it painful to watch this hearing.
Scotian @ 169
The smears will fly thick and fast. It will be very hard to tell the good guys from the bad guys. We will need our Tubes working and our wikipedia accurate. God save the google!
PS Nice paragraphs, Scotian, and very readable. Yer getting downright telegraphic.
dmoore @ 181
He is making sure that there will be a credible dem challenger to his house seat AND that he will be defeated for Senate if Warner gives up his seat. Let him babble on the bush bus.
Goopers claiming ‘asked and answered’ on Condi.
Davis (R) saying that she’s been too busy to comply in her role as SoS.
Davis now saying the Niger claims belong in the ‘horse beat dead’ category.
It’s obvious the Goopers intend to fight the Condi subpoena, and position Condi to refuse.
dakine01 @ 111
‘cept she’s a Republican…ethical as she is, I want excellent Democrats, not tolerable Republicans.
It’s 2006 and he’s worried about the getting the Palestinian Peace Process started now?
Fresh thread, up and running.
perris @ 170
Indeed, all kidding aside, America has to come to terms with the fact that certain people in this Administration should be brought up on war crimes charges at the Hague. If the U.S. is going to regain any credibility in the court of world opinion those responsible must be held accountable.
Wax to DAvis: You’re an idiot. (not in those words). Condi press conferences and TV appearances are not sufficient to answer questions. We want her answers to questions on record. American people need that.
Davis: But she has 4 other committees looking at her. Whine whine whine whiny whine whine.
Republicans stalling again. Yawn
Mutant Poodle @ 185
yes, but maybe some of the better dems are repubs who have gotten fragged.
see: jim webb.
Mutant Poodle @ 185
But San Diego is hardcore Republic territory. Rather have tolerable Republic thatn continue with Issa. And maybe she could be convinced to switch after fight.
Charles Emerson Winchester III @ 115
No, Major, It Was Me!!!
Goopers challenging jurisdiction of the committee to call Rice.
Davis is standing firm: Bringing Condi in is a waste of time.
Dems say Condi has no problem going on Fox News – why the schedule issue here?
Heading up to new thread to continue Waxman hearing.
What’s with all these Republican’s from N. Carolina. The home of the late great Sam Ervin. How far they have sunk. Another Republican trying to protect the Party before the interests of the American public.
New thread up. Goodling gets immunity.
Henry, she lied.
Bloch will do a heckuva job…
btw, I prefer the composition “Hair On A G-String”
radiofreewill @
194
There are tears in my eyes. I didn’t think I’d ever hear Dems talking like that.
Hotflash:
Thanks, I try, especially since I know I am a rather long winded writer/speaker. The least I can do is make sure the paragraph breaks are reasonably placed to aid in the reading of my tomes, it is if nothing else common courtesy.
Shays is an idiot
GWB’s legacy: I don’t recall.
Scotian @ 201
Well, it’s working. I find that what I was taught about paragraph structure just doesn’t apply to computer writing. The eye boggles without some breaks on the screen. I find that anything with less than 3 para breaks per page looks like a solid wall to me.
So I just put ‘em in where I need a breather, even if it separates my (very wonderful, of course) concluding sentence from its home para. You’re right, it is to aid in conveying the sense. Punctuation evolving as we blog.
I wonder if the part of the tide turning is based on the Gonzales events. BushCo. letting him swing in the wind. I wonder if loyal bushie underlings are beginning to see their own fate if they stay on this bandwagon of doom? Do they want to have their incompetence due to their inadequacies displayed before the world? How will that look on their resumes? Sooner or later self interest has to take over, it just has to.
dakine01 @ 183
oh, alright. point taken. i guess i need some tea.
Monica G must know by now if she is still considered one of Them or not. If she is being protected she’ll stonewall. If she thinks she’s being TUTB she’s got three choices: sing and hope the New Masters will be kind to her, shut up and hope that will redeem her in Their eyes, or shut up and be a Martyr to the Cause. I know early Christians were big into martyrdom, but I’ve not noticed in contemporary ones so much.
Maybe the proper way to frame this to the Goppers is to ask a simple question, ‘Do you want to have a party?’
HotFlash @ 204
Agreed. My paragraphs used to be significantly longer as I was taught to write well before the microcomputer age let alone the internet, but I found the density of that format tended to come across too solid a wall as you put it on most commenting structures like haloscan. So I started measuring for break points more on that basis than on where it most logically would be based on the content. It seems that works for most people, as the only time I get criticism about my verbiage is from that already disagree with my POV, and usually are unable/unwilling to actually address the contents of what I wrote.
Bluetoe @ 188
u & i could not agree more;
the only way for this country to even begin to repair the damage this administration has done to our country is to bring them to the bar of international court and allow unfettered prosecution
that will only beging the process, then we have to reafirm the treaties this administration has unilaterally ignored, like the geneva treaty
Ignatius “But Republicans voice the bitterness and frustration of people chained to the hull of a sinking ship.”
Most of those chained to the ship helped build it and set it sail, they deserve to go down.
When they had subpoena power they did not use it well with the exception of investigating lies about b/j’s. This we know was critical to do for National security reasons.
Now they are drowing in “subpoena envy.” Serves them right!
kathleen @ 211
hehe
sub peonas…I like that alot
I took liberty and added the “s”
Most of these Republicans designed and set the Bush administrations ship a sail. They were part of the ships crew!
Now they want to pretend to wonder how they got on this immoral and corrupt sinking ship in the first place.
What a bunch of hogwash!
oblio @ 205
Walk off the plank, or go down with the sinking ship that you helped set sail. What a choice! Serves them right!
I’m hoping Christy or Jane can answer this. What happens after this administration goes? I doubt seriously the Thuglican will take back the Senate or House or even the Presidency. So what then? Can we investigate serious wrongdoing after they’ve gone? Has it ever been done before? I’ve been researching this, but haven’t been able to come up with any examples. Can we revist things once they are out of power?
Our PBS channel showed the film “ENRON, The Smartest Guys in the Room” last night. I hadn’t seen it before. As I watched it, I kept thinking how the ENRON triad (Kenny Boy, Skilling and Fastow) reminded me so much of the Bush administration: Kenny Boy = Bush; Skilling = Cheney and Fastow = Rove.
It’s frightening. These guys, with I believe the exception of Fastow who seemed to just want money and power, thought they were the masters of the universe. They were changing the world and the truth was whatever they needed it to be. I think there is a case to be made that they succumbed to their own lies. The fantasy world they wove in business, besides making them rich beyond their wildest dreams, became the world they believed in.
They didn’t have to let go till it crashed down over their heads. Fastow turned state’s evidence and may actually tried to redeem himself (who really knows – jailhouse remorse maybe). Skilling, who never really seemed to believe he was guilty of anything, is in prison for 24 years and of course, Kenny Boy died.
The most depressing part was how all their enablers (the traders, the bankers, the corporations), got off scott free (well except for Anderson Accounting).
Anyway, I see Bush Co. in the same light. I think they really are true believers and think anything they do is justified – except for Karl. He knows he’s a bad, bad boy, but he’s just had so much damn fun eh.
They’ve had a lot of enablers: the MSM, the Republican rubber stamp congress and of course, the American people maybe out of our fear or just because we never believed any administration could be so degenerate, have their part.
I think back to all those who told me there was no real difference between Bush and Gore, or the ones who just didn’t warm up to Kerry. I don’t think I fought hard enough. Think Pogo: “We have seen the enemy and he is us.”
I hope people are waking up, paying attention, starting to understand that the fate of the world is at stake here. It’s scary out here.
dmg @ 93
do they read? if so, give them Richard Clarke’s book, Against All Enemies and Paul O’Neill’s book The Price of Loyalty. That ought to shut them up. Then again…
“And there may be value in banking on people being so relieved to be rid of him at that point that they don’t care to push investigations forward any longer.”
They had not bet on this! Americans across the country want to witness those responsible for lying our nation into this ACCOUNTABLE! If this does not happen there is no way this nation can move forward in anywhere close to an honest way. The honest and forceful testimonies of the Tillman family were just a small indication of the righteous anger out there in the American public over this unnecesary war.
The whole world is watching to see if the American people and our elected officials consider lies about WMD’s and the subsequent invasion of a sovereign nation based on these lies as important to investigate and hold those responsible accountable, as investigating the lies under oath about a b.j. If our nation and leaders fail to do this we will all know deep down that this experiment in Democracy is a complete and utter failure.
If those responsible for the creation and dessimination of false pre-war intelligence are not held accountable. We will know once and for all that the hundreds of thousands of lives lost in this “war of choice” were completely dispensable fodder for the warmongers cannons!
I just love this series of metaphors:
saw Bach’s Mass in B Minor performed by the Netherlands Bach Society this weekend in Berkeley. didn’t think of Rove once during the performance.
dmg @ 157
I believe that precisely is Bloch’s agenda. He wants to go after unkle Karl and his penchant for committing what Bloch considers abominations with “the little boys” and other men.
[nested quotes watch we are-mod]
“the smarmy taint of Bush and Cheney and Rove has rubbed off on the entire Republican party, and how long those outside the inner circle will stand for that is a looming question at the moment.”
The majority of Republicans deserve what they are getting, most of their middle names are “smarmy.” Smarmy applies to all the Democrats who voted for the war resolution as well. James Baker is smarmy! Lincoln Chaffee from Rhode Island is not smarmy, that is one honorable Republican along with some others
Hell the partisan vote of the Supreme Court Justices in the 2000 selection was “smarmy”. Sandra Day O’Connor we know you are still out there.
Senator Pat “smarmy” Roberts did everything everything in his power to divert, delay,dilute and destroy the investigation into pre-war intelligence. Handing the investigation of the Office of Special plans and Douglas Feith to the Pentagons Inspector General Gimble (did you watch that Republican ass wiping IG during the Tillman hearing yesterday).
Heavens to Betsy Inspector General Gimble came out and called Feiths creation and dessimination of false pre-war intelligence “inappropriate”. That’s it “inappropriate”? Ouch Mr. Inspector General did you have to go and slap Feith’s hand so hard? Christ ALL Mighty hundreds of thousands of people have died been injured and displaced due to the use of this false pre-war intelligence/LIES. A whole country and all of it’s people are living in hell on earth as Americans have their pedals to the metal and some of us discuss the how and why we invaded Iraq . This is both absurd and criminal!
Although it does like the Democrats are using their subpoena power really well so far. Republicans, Independents and Democrats alike are starving for some justice!
Senator Rockerfeller we are hoping and praying that PHASE II OF THE SENATE SELECTION ON INTELLIGENCE results in justice being served. This is the very least that you folks can do for those who have needlessly lost their lives in this illegal and immoral “war of choice”
Awesome, Christy — and I love that it’s WaPo’s Ignatius, speaking for the trad media, now announcing the death watch on this regime, just as you’ve just done for the blogs.
Let’s turn up the volume.
why does that jump out at me?
FLACCID seems to be the perfect word for these crooked, pale, chickenhawking, corrupt assholes
esp. when rove squeals like a little piggy when touched by sheryl crow!!!!
how FLACCID can you get
Oh, Christy- another masterpiece!
WH under siege by a cult- that’d be a great bumpersticker.
They chained themselves there
Ain’t Karma a bitch?
See, this is why those out there who think that Bush won’t veto any bill with a timetable are very much mistaken.
Bush and his advisors are fifteen-year-old trust-fund babies in the bodies of mature men and women. They never have had to face, on a deep and personal level, the consequences of their actions. Their political philosophy is nothing more than a raised middle finger to everything that is espoused by anyone who might try to make them operate under any sort of restraint.
Since they’ve never before had to trim their sails, much less make a major couse correction, they simply cannot conceive of the possibility that they are in the process of destroying not only themselves, not only the Republican Party, but the entire conservative movement. The main (if not only) thing propping them up right now is their heavy influence/control of the TV and radio outlets from which most Americans get their news — and with the rise of Keith Olbermann, The Daily Show and Colbert Report, and the reality-based portion of the blogosphere, even that influence is weakening.
I believe Bloch will put on a scrupulous investigator act. He will prosecute Rove for some minor thing (like Libby’s crime) and the rest of the gang (i.e. Bush & Cheney) will be shielded. The “press” will pump up Bloch as the man of integrity and, perhaps, Bloch will be anointed as a new “integrity hero” somewhat like McCain to continue carrying out the long term project.
I don’t know what to think about Fitzpatrick. He could be seen in this light but I think that is probably excessively cynical. But I wouldn’t rule it out.
Let’s not forget that all these Federal Attorneys who were fired were Republicans. When Bush appointed them, the vetting procedures were probably every bit as corrupt as they were when they were fired.
One thing that occurred to me while reading this post’s discussion of Rove’s role: when will the other leaders in the Republican party (senators, representatives, governors, etc.) figure out that Karl Rove’s deepest loyalty is to George W. Bush, and not to the Republican Party? When Rove has to decide whether to do something that helps W in the short run or the GOP in the long run, it has become obvious which way he leans. At some point, people like McConnell will have to face what the implications of this bias mean to their own political futures.
MORE BUSES!
The Bach was great. Period instruments are the way to go.
Who’s this Rove guy everybody’s tlaking about?
Let’s remember Ron Suskind’s observation of Rove in action. “I’m going to fuck him. I’m going to fuck him like he’s never been fucked before”…. and on and on, is what Suskind heard sitting outside Rove’s office where he went for an interview. It was assumed Rove was talking about a Party member.
Rove has fucked countless Republicans over the years. It’s rather surprising really that the knives haven’t come out for him yet, after the fall election disaster. His circle of real friends must be pretty small by now. Bush, David Broder and ? (The Broder thing about really liking Rove and the visit to his cabin is beyond all belief. Earth to Dave. He was cultivating you pal. Buttering you up because you could be usefull to him. Broders naivet is stunning. I can imagine Rove riffing on Broder. ‘There’s a sucker born every minute. What a pathetic wuss. Howls of delight after another column about compromise)
Ok, I have some questions for all of you who know way more than I do. I’m not sure how to go about doing the research to find any answers. I am not sure if this falls into the area of ‘conspiracy theories’ or not. I’ve been following all of the so-called “voter fraud” cases in relation to the US Attorney scandals, that were implemented through the Bush administration officials in D.C. Here in Texas, in our current legislative session, we have had one of 2 bills approved relating to voter ID and registration, in order to prevent “voter fraud”. (Does that ring a bell?)
So, my questions are, does Karl Rove’s office or anyone related to the administration have connections to the bills authors – Betty Brown (R-Athens) or Phil King (R-Weatherford) or our top state officials? Are the legislators in Texas getting any pressure to implement “voter fraud” legislation as part of the underlying “voter fraud” cases that Rove has talked about?
The coincidences of the brewing scandals in D.C. and the supposed problems of “voter fraud” that really do not exist and are actually ploys to decrease mostly Democratic voters, is just a little bit odd and makes me wonder if something bigger isn’t going on. After all, Bush, et al. are mostly from Texas and are still friends with many people here. It would not surprise me and if it is the case, it needs to get some publicity that this is going on. Is there a way to find out the answers to these questions? I may be completely off base and not know what I am talking about, but it makes me have lots of questions. Thanks and you all are always great!
Christie, the kind of investigation that is required to nail Rover is incredibly complex. Most loyal Bushies are not noted for their competence, and I don’t see any reason that this dork at the Office of Special Counsel would be an exception to this pattern.
Nor is Bloch likely to have assembled a staff who could carry out this investigation for him. Jobs for attorneys in the Bush administration are for political hacks who are hyperloyal and don’t have good enough legal training to be expected to be able to think for themselves. (Reference to Bloch’s penchant for hiring law grads from a Catholic law school of dubious note.) Can you imagine Monica Goodling and Kyle Sampson conducting a competent investigation of Rover, assuming they wanted to?
And the Office of Special Counsel did not have a great reputation in the Clinton administration, either. My colleagues in the employment law bar who practice in the federal sector did not jump up and down and cheer when the Clinton administration’s Office of Special Counsel accepted a complaint for investigation.
Like many government watchdogs (e.g., the Army Inspector General whose sterling work in the Tillman investigation was on display this week), there is an aura of “figleaf” usually surrounding an OSC investigation — that is, there is an institutional bias toward vindicating the agency, except when extremely bad facts are shown, and often a bias toward vindicating the agency against the whistleblower even in the face of overwhelming facts. That type of institution is not one that attracts or retains the kind of legal talent that is needed to bring Rover to heel!
I would love to be proved wrong, but I think Bloch’s announcement was cooked up by Rover himself, to give administration flacks an excuse not to respond to any question about the obvious corruption that Rover & company have blighted the White House and many agencies with.
To Rat Bastahd 12: The “melt away” scenario has always worked for the Rethugs in the past. It’s astounding that young people think Newt is some “new” guy they haven’t seen around before. Ditto Elliot Abrams, Negroponte etc., etc. A whole cast of vampires from blood sucking reruns of the past. What’s happening? Are new history books (revisions) published every decade or so? Or have American history classes been repealed from curriculums? Really, what’s the solution to keeping from “having to go through all these things twice”? (Dylan)