ZED!

Zed?! Great post, Jane!

This was sooooooo engrossing and right on the mark.

I had to read it first.

The “keeping our powder dry” argument never flew for me. In order for this to be a reasonable strategy, one must define a line beyond which you WILL ignite said powder for good effect. The Dems never did this, and with every new issue that they faced, they folded with the claim they were keeping their powder dry for another day.

Clearly they were talking about another kind of powder, a *sniffing* powder, because I saw no evidence of gunpowder in their possession until after they took control of congress.

Argh, just missed. Good on you, bdu.

Still a great post.

OT, Jane, I just finished “Killer Instinct”. Loved it. Politics must seem easy after Hollywood, eh?

when will you people give up on the democrats? this country need more than a two party rule, and will never change until we do.

Yeah, what if the Repubs and frist had instituted the nuclear option? I think toothless MItch is probably VERY glad today that it wasn’t invoked. Otherwise, he could whine about everything and been ignored. Damn the gang of 14.

The Supremes who thought it was a good idea ought to have to explain the reasoning behind it to every woman who’s going to be denied a medically-necessary third-trimester abortion. Then bill them for all the expenses involved, including the funeral if she should die. Also, they need to rehearse that explanation on their daughters and granddaughters, who probably aren’t that gullible.

And Keenan can go take a flying leap into the Potomac.

I think the NRA “advocacy” model is the right one to follow. (I almost said “shoot for” but decided that was a little much.) The game rules changed a long, long time ago. Our advocacy groups and a lot of democrats are still trying to be “nice” – thinking that we can all still get along. We can’t.

Nice to see you feeling feisty Jane.

Coyoteville @
5

Argh, just missed. Good on you, bdu.

Still a great post.

OT, Jane, I just finished “Killer Instinct”. Loved it. Politics must seem easy after Hollywood, eh?

Bush league.

Keeping my party’s feet to the fire just might have consequences. On this, and other vital and imperative issues.

Rick @ 6

What more than two party rule? We’re just getting a second party back now. Third and subsequent parties are losses.

We probably wouldn’t have Shrub without the people who voted for Nader.

Yesterday, I “round-filed” the latest mailing from NARAL. Earlier, I told them not to call me anymore, and why. From the caller’s response, I wasn’t alone.

I will be giving to my local Planned Parenthood: 1/3 for their abortion services, 1/3 for their political action committee, and 1/3 for services in the (small, rural) county I live in.

He also thought that many Democratic leaders had refused to talk about it because many Democrats had voted for the bill in the first place.

it’s not like this was the only time it’s happened.. (iraq war?) – i think there’s a take home message for our congress critters here:

DON’T VOTE FOR THE STUPID BILL TO BEGIN WITH.

you’ll be glad you did the right thing.

Question – 2009, we get a D President, and both houses of congress – can we rewrite the abortion laws and not worry about a SCOTUS decision? Is anyone keeping a list of all the things we will need to undo in 2009 in our first 100 days of getting our country back?

Jane! Kickin’ ass and takin’ names!

Chuckles, Jane.

I’m going to send “Killer Instinct” to my sister in San Diego. She is a stage actress, and an activist. In the late ’90’s, she was a Republican. No more!

Well, off to my birthday dinner. Thai food.

Rick @
6

when will you people give up on the democrats? this country need more than a two party rule, and will never change until we do.

We’ll give up on the Democrats when we manage to get enough clear space to turn our attention to it. I for one am not willing to leave our government in the hands of the rethugs, by default, while we get the new party set up. See Ralph Nader.

Because while nobody was looking, our powder got soaking wet.

It’s hard to keep your powder dry when you store it at the bottom of that hole in the outhouse.

Happy Birthday Coyoteville

Coyoteville @ 18

Chuckles, Jane.

I’m going to send “Killer Instinct” to my sister in San Diego. She is a stage actress, and an activist. In the late ’90’s, she was a Republican. No more!

Well, off to my birthday dinner. Thai food.

happy birthday. Watch out for “Thai food Mary” (Matalin)

Beyond the SCOTUS decision last week is the very real issue that in certain states, the “right” to an abortion is theoretical and not practical – there’s nowhere nearby for women without means to go. No matter how well people man the barricades to keep this horrendous decision from creeping further under the foundation of Roe, if we don’t address the larger issue – that wingnut threats and boycotts have removed serious family planning from many states – then it doesn’t matter what the Supreme Court does.

And that isn’t a legal battle but a political one. Because, with the exception of a few total fruitcakes like Alan Keyes, everyone believes in their right to choose – they just think anyone else who might make use of it is an irresponsible slut.

I was happy that Kilgore seemed to think that choice was an important issue for candidates to address in ‘08, but he seems to think nobody but pro-choice activists care about this.

Single women between 18 and 35 have the lowest rate of voter turnout of any Democratic constituency. They also take their reproductive rights for granted — how can we educate them, to register and vote for their self interest?

Gnome de Plume @ 16

Question – 2009, we get a D President, and both houses of congress – can we rewrite the abortion laws and not worry about a SCOTUS decision? Is anyone keeping a list of all the things we will need to undo in 2009 in our first 100 days of getting our country back?

Funny, I’ve been thinking about this kind of list, too. Mine’s still on the back of an envelope, though :}

conniptionfit @ 25

Gnome de Plume @ 16

Question – 2009, we get a D President, and both houses of congress – can we rewrite the abortion laws and not worry about a SCOTUS decision? Is anyone keeping a list of all the things we will need to undo in 2009 in our first 100 days of getting our country back?

Funny, I’ve been thinking about this kind of list, too. Mine’s still on the back of an envelope, though :}

You must have bigger envelopes than I do.

Gnome de Plume @ 16

Question – 2009, we get a D President, and both houses of congress – can we rewrite the abortion laws and not worry about a SCOTUS decision? Is anyone keeping a list of all the things we will need to undo in 2009 in our first 100 days of getting our country back?

Well, you can, but a lot of dems won’t put their names on legislation protecting abortion – remember how many voted for this pig of a bill in the first place. Maybe you could modify the legislation to put more stringent protections in for the mother’s health, but at the moment, I think that’s it.

Unless the GOP goes out of business or are all shipped to Guantanamo before 2008. One by one, quite a few are starting to enjoy Martha Stewart living – convict style.

P J Evans @
8

The Supremes who thought it was a good idea ought to have to explain the reasoning behind it to every woman who’s going to be denied a medically-necessary third-trimester abortion. Then bill them for all the expenses involved, including the funeral if she should die. Also, they need to rehearse that explanation on their daughters and granddaughters, who probably aren’t that gullible.

And Keenan can go take a flying leap into the Potomac.

You think the Supremes care? Do you think anyone in their family will ever have that problem? Of course not!! If they had a personal experience, it would change their outlook.

Gnome de Plume @
16

Question – 2009, we get a D President, and both houses of congress – can we rewrite the abortion laws and not worry about a SCOTUS decision? Is anyone keeping a list of all the things we will need to undo in 2009 in our first 100 days of getting our country back?

Well, since this was a congressional passed bill, it seems it would be so.

In fact, we’ve now got the Supreme Court adopting language focused-grouped by fundamentalist purity ball lunatics in South Dakota about women being too emotional to make informed decisions regarding icky procedures like D&E.

Does that mean that men are not competent to make informed decisions about vasectomies?

bdu @
4

The “keeping our powder dry” argument never flew for me. In order for this to be a reasonable strategy, one must define a line beyond which you WILL ignite said powder for good effect. The Dems never did this, and with every new issue that they faced, they folded with the claim they were keeping their powder dry for another day.

Clearly they were talking about another kind of powder, a *sniffing* powder, because I saw no evidence of gunpowder in their possession until after they took control of congress.

I never got it either. Why is it only in the past 2 weeks that Reid has grown some brass ones? And I mean being forceful about it. He hasn’t minced words.

This is the result of five catholic men voting as their church dictates. To do otherwise would subject them to excommunication and eternal damnation.

-ck- @ 24

I was happy that Kilgore seemed to think that choice was an important issue for candidates to address in ‘08, but he seems to think nobody but pro-choice activists care about this.

Single women between 18 and 35 have the lowest rate of voter turnout of any Democratic constituency. They also take their reproductive rights for granted — how can we educate them, to register and vote for their self interest?

I really hope they don’t have to find out the hard way. I had a conversation with my 17 year old about this and she wasn’t aware of the situation. She’ll be voting for the first time in ‘08, hope she was listening.

Peterr @ 29

Does that mean that men are not competent to make informed decisions about vasectomies?

Apparently it’s been SoP for a long time now that young women can’t make proper decisions regarding tubal ligation. My girl had been actively persuing it since 25 (and determined that she’d want it done for much, much longer), but couldn’t find a single doctor who would perform the procedure on her until after she turned 30.

Gotta keep the baby-factories in working order, I guess… can’t have women with control over their own reproductive system.

Sometimes ‘keeping your powder dry’ works. Sometimes it doesn’t. Knowing this is what separates the men from the boys. And the women from the girls.

I think it should be obvious by now, keeping your powder dry is not a viable option with these people.
Using your powder at every opportunity and then stepping on their necks with hobnail boots seems to get their attention.

I wonder if there was a coincidence of timing of the Vatican’s issuing the report that there’s no limbo? Probably unrelated to the SCOTUS decision, but it did strike me as odd, with Opus Dei on SCOTUS and all….

P J Evans @
8

The Supremes who thought it was a good idea ought to have to explain the reasoning behind it to every woman who’s going to be denied a medically-necessary third-trimester abortion. Then bill them for all the expenses involved, including the funeral if she should die. Also, they need to rehearse that explanation on their daughters and granddaughters, who probably aren’t that gullible.

And Keenan can go take a flying leap into the Potomac.

I agree with all of your comments, except that I believe these abortions tend to be medically necessary second-term abortions, not third-term abortions as the pro-life crowd insists.

Stop the funding, Democrats.

George Stockman @
32

This is the result of five catholic men voting as their church dictates. To do otherwise would subject them to excommunication and eternal damnation.

OT – Old joke:

Only two things in life to worry about, if you’re going to be sick or if you’re going to be well. If well, nothing to worry about.

If sick, only two things to worry about, if you’re going to live or if you’re going to die. If you live, nothing to worry about.

If you die only two things to worry about, if you’re going to heaven or if you’re going to hell. If you’re going to heaven, nothing to worry about. And if you’re going to hell, you’ll probably be too busy shaking hands with all your friends to worry!

I may be going to hell, I just hope the stay is as much fun as the trip!

If the male ruling class in both chambers of the US Capitol would reframe the abortion debate as misogynistic and in conflict with our Bill of Rights it would at least elevate the debate and confuse the wingnuts in the bargain.

Speaking of abortion, Alternet has a good reminder re: the 9th amendment.

TeddySanFran @ 37

I wonder if there was a coincidence of timing of the Vatican’s issuing the report that there’s no limbo? Probably unrelated to the SCOTUS decision, but it did strike me as odd, with Opus Dei on SCOTUS and all….

No limbo is related to attempts to convert Africans & is realpolitik in its finest hour. Remember that limbo is where you (used to) go if you died before you were baptized. Limbo, for the uninitiated, is like heaven, but you never get to see God’s face. In Africa there is an extreme shortage of priests, and infant mortality is high, so it’s hard to convert a woman who thinks her unbaptized innocent baby can’t have the full benefits of the afterlife.

Hypocrisy is not unique to religion, it’s just heavily concentrated there.

Joe Klein’s conscience @
31

bdu @
4

The “keeping our powder dry” argument never flew for me. In order for this to be a reasonable strategy, one must define a line beyond which you WILL ignite said powder for good effect. The Dems never did this, and with every new issue that they faced, they folded with the claim they were keeping their powder dry for another day.

Clearly they were talking about another kind of powder, a *sniffing* powder, because I saw no evidence of gunpowder in their possession until after they took control of congress.

I never got it either. Why is it only in the past 2 weeks that Reid has grown some brass ones? And I mean being forceful about it. He hasn’t minced words.

I mentioned his boxing experience a few weeks ago. The guy has great timing instincts. Reid allows his opponent much time to wear out with missed punches and dancing and then, at the right moment, he delivers a precise blow to the chin and the body.

newspaperbrat @ 41

If the male ruling class in both chambers of the US Capitol would reframe the abortion debate as misogynistic and in conflict with our Bill of Rights it would at least elevate the debate and confuse the wingnuts in the bargain.

But that’s a part of the problem; the patriarchy is functionally incapable of seeing their actions as misogynistic and in conflict with the BoR. It often seems that in their eyes, there are humans and then there are women. S2D2.

AP – A historic veto showdown assured, Democratic leaders agreed Monday on legislation that requires the first U.S. combat troops to be withdrawn from Iraq by Oct. 1 with a goal of a complete pullout six months later.

The question I pose for my party is if this doesn’t work, what next?

It is well past time to FORCE the Dems to speak about choice during during the upcoming elections. They must NOT be allowed to sideline the issue.

I was PISSED when the Dems kept working to “keep the powder dry”. You may as well not have any powder if all you wish to do is keep it dry. You must USE it or lose it. It’s that simple, and by keeping their powder dry as an end in itself, the “nuclear option” won out (de facto).

I wanted them to filibuster Alito (I also wanted them to cream Roberts…I KNEW is was crap) no matter what. If the Repukes went all illegal and went nuclear, then so be it. The outcome was the same but it would give the Dems a superweapon when they took over again. They could force through the most liberal of judges and the GOP wouldn’t be able to do jack about it. Tough titty on them.

I am a big believer in forcing the opponents to actually lie (and roll around in) the bed they make. The Dems just kept falling down over a nonexistant and nonsensical idea of “comity”. Comity is DEAD. It died when Gingrich and his thugs rolled into DC way back when.

No more games, no more hiding, no more crap. It is game time and the Dems WILL play or get dumped. WE have to make this so.

As for NARAL, I quit giving to them when they collapsed on Lieberman, Snowe, and Chaffee. They played that bullshit game and lost me forever as a supporter. I have told them repeatedly to quit calling me asking for donations because of their uselessness. I have told them that THEY are responsible for Alito and I will NEVER forgive them. Yet they still send me mailing and call me asking for money. They can go to hell. I will never ever again give them a dime. Since they refuse to take the hint, I will happily keep telling their idiots on the phone that I will never support them again and that they are responsible for Alito AND the latest SCROTUS ruling on abortion.

NARAL is useless and needs to disappear…just like a bunch of Dems that SAY they support choice but when it comes down to the brass tacks, they are nowhere to be seen.

Slothrop @ 43

I mentioned his boxing experience a few weeks ago. The guy has great timing instincts. Reid allows his opponent much time to wear out with missed punches and dancing and then, at the right moment, he delivers a precise blow to the chin and the body.

Unfortunately, the medium to long-term endgame on the Supreme Court was with Alito and Roberts. Reid let those openings close up with not so much as a feign, much less a one-two punch.

I mentioned his boxing experience a few weeks ago. The guy has great timing instincts. Reid allows his opponent much time to wear out with missed punches and dancing and then, at the right moment, he delivers a precise blow to the chin and the body.

Don’t count on Reid for this particular fight. He’s anti-choice, afterall. He isn’t going to light off any powder for women’s reproductive choice. You need to find someone else to bring the Dem’s feet to the fire and force the issue.

I *begged* Salazar to filibuster Alito. You can imagine how much he cared. He needs a session in the duck pit.

OT
The Muck, Abramoff
Rep. Don Young (R-AK) – his former aide Mark Zachares and the criminal information filed against him today.

-ck- at 24 raises the bottom line issue. How to make this a voting issue for the Female 18-35 year old crowd, which has one of the lowest voter participation rates going.

Could we please spend a small amount of money on research so as to get a handle on what messages might move them to pay attention to these matters, Reproductive Rights as well as other things? Today MSNBC was carrying a package on Women’s pay equity. 80% equal the first year out of college, but ten years out, it was at 69% — which is no different from the ratio back in the 1960’s when we first passed the 64 Civil Rights Act leading toward pay equity matters. (In 1962 when we first were looking at how to do pay equity within the frame of the Civil Rights Bill the Urban League produced a study showing black-white pay equity for equal work at 69%.) — I think it now is in the upper 70%’s.

I think Feminists have done a plumb awful job over the past several decades on all of these linked and related issues. It isn’t just Abortion and Reproductive Rights. That will attract some younger women to a Feminist Agenda, but we need more than just this slice of the Younger Female potential electorate. The Non-voting younger women are behind the cash registers at your supermarket, they work in Restaurants, at the big box stores, and many of them are single mom’s trying to support children on that 69%. Question is when do we produce and support a populist style Feminist leader who represents these women, and who gets support to be a public figure? They are hardly likely to be led by someone who is trying to make partner in a law firm, or get tenure at a University. This is a social and economic class thing, and I doubt if we make a dent till we recognize and internalize this.

Praedor Atrebates @ 47

It is well past time to FORCE the Dems to speak about choice during during the upcoming elections. They must NOT be allowed to sideline the issue.

Listen, if Reid can use the L-word wrt war, Ds can use the choice word. It’s call leadership, or moral courage. I’m tired of Ds with low profiles in courage.

Jane – please forgive this digression, which ThinkProgress posted about fifteen minutes ago:
McNulty will testify before Senate committee on Friday

excellent new post at balkinization by Andrew Koppelman, “Don’t do anything you’re going to regret later“

But what is the major premise of this argument? That constitutional liberties can be restricted if it sometimes happens that someone regrets exercising the liberty in a given way? It’s hard to imagine any liberty that no one ever regrets. Some people who criticize actions of the government later wish that they had kept their mouths shut. Some criminal suspects regret that they didn’t confess everything when the police first interrogated them. Some of the slaves freed by the Thirteenth Amendment were old and infirm, and some of them probably regretted leaving the plantation.

It is hard to imagine the boundaries of this principle as Kennedy has stated it. He cannot possibly mean it. One can only hope that, at some point, contemplating what he has written, he regrets it.

Another OT, related to Ambramoff case:

Former Aide to GOP Rep To Plead Guilty
By Paul Kiel – April 23, 2007, 4:09 PM
Yet another shoe drops in the Jack Abramoff investigation. A former aide to Rep. Don Young (R-AK), Mark Zachares, looks set to plead guilty to corruption charges.

The Justice Department filed a criminal information today on Zachares, laying out the facts to which he’ll be pleading guilty. You can read it here. A plea hearing has been scheduled for tomorrow.

…

TPM Link

Emma Anne @ 50

I *begged* Salazar to filibuster Alito. You can imagine how much he cared. He needs a session in the duck pit.

Hey! Another Coloradoan who pesters Salazar! We have to keep badgering him about doing the right thing…

I hope Zachares rolls over on Young. That sleezebag needs to be in the federal pen – not Congress.

sab @ 38

P J Evans @
8

The Supremes who thought it was a good idea ought to have to explain the reasoning behind it to every woman who’s going to be denied a medically-necessary third-trimester abortion. Then bill them for all the expenses involved, including the funeral if she should die. Also, they need to rehearse that explanation on their daughters and granddaughters, who probably aren’t that gullible.

And Keenan can go take a flying leap into the Potomac.

I agree with all of your comments, except that I believe these abortions tend to be medically necessary second-term abortions, not third-term abortions as the pro-life crowd insists.

There were only 11 of these medically necessary procedures done in the U.S. last year.

Suzanne @ 58

I hope Zachares rolls over on Young. That sleezebag needs to be in the federal pen – not Congress.

but who will tend the toobz?

E.J. Dionne says on News Hour that most Democrats won’t vote for a funding cutoff for the Iraq War. I have no doubt about this. And it really, really pisses me off!

Guess I’ll contribute the obvious observation. This would be a great area for Hillary to come out in front of the pack. But she’s so determined to show everyone she has cojones that her lips are sealed on choice. Heck, even Rudy addresses the issue, although he changes his mind on it every other day.

tbsa @ 59

There were only 11 of these medically necessary procedures done in the U.S. last year.

That never stopped the Rs. There was only ONE Terry Schaivo.

partially o/t but

B R E A K I N G!

(1) senate judiciary committee
to vote on issuance of NEW round
of subpoenas for purge-gate on wed. 4/25. . .

(2) paul mcnulty to testify before the
judiciary committee this friday, april 27,
according to sen. chuck schumer. . .

developing. . .

One day, it will be the Republics in a position to choose to filibuster or not. Does anyone actually expect them not to because the Democrats sgreed not to? The Dems were conned and they know it.

tbsa @ 59

Which makes banning it look even worse.

I wonder if anyone has ever given serious thought to framing it as an issue of religious freedom. Yes, a lot of people would be unhappy. And this would be different from now in what way? The religious wingnuts are currently driving the bus, and we can’t tell them that they’re off the road because it will upset them?

(Hi, Praedor! Long time not seen!)

I understand that there is a simple way around the restriction(?) Kill the fetus before drawing it out and suctioning the head – that the restriction as set out can only apply to intact, “alive” extraction…that this can be sidestepped by terminating the fetus before collapsing the skull.

This doesn’t make it OK that the SCROTUS thinks that the government gets to control women’s reproduction (just wait, the other shoe will be more attempts to limit/restrict birthcontrol options as well).

eCAHNomics @ 63

tbsa @ 59

There were only 11 of these medically necessary procedures done in the U.S. last year.

That never stopped the Rs. There was only ONE Terry Schaivo.

Which will be the most likely overseas destinations Republics will use when their own loved ones need this or similar procedures>

If we don’t do something about the looming specter of more war, not much else will matter.

Badwater @ 64

One day, it will be the Republics in a position to choose to filibuster or not. Does anyone actually expect them not to because the Democrats sgreed not to? The Dems were conned and they know it.

One day? I could have sworn that I read they’d already done it once this session!

bdu @ 70

Badwater @ 64

One day, it will be the Republics in a position to choose to filibuster or not. Does anyone actually expect them not to because the Democrats sgreed not to? The Dems were conned and they know it.

One day? I could have sworn that I read they’d already done it once this session!

Yes but I was thinking of judicial nominees.

Badwater @ 68

Which will be the most likely overseas destinations Republics will use when their own loved ones need this or similar procedures>

It depends on whether the R has been indicted by the ICC, and whether the country in question has extradition.

P J Evans @ 66

tbsa @ 59

Which makes banning it look even worse.

I wonder if anyone has ever given serious thought to framing it as an issue of religious freedom. Yes, a lot of people would be unhappy. And this would be different from now in what way? The religious wingnuts are currently driving the bus, and we can’t tell them that they’re off the road because it will upset them?

(Hi, Praedor! Long time not seen!)

I agree completely. What happens when the first woman dies because she wasn’t able to have this procedure? What about all the woman who will be unable to have other children because they were denied this procedure? I personally couldn’t care less about upsetting these bastards they are all criminally insane.

Badwater @
65

One day, it will be the Republics in a position to choose to filibuster or not. Does anyone actually expect them not to because the Democrats sgreed not to? The Dems were conned and they know it.

They are already filibustering a number of bills.

The only way to do anything about Nancy, I am afraid, is for the regional organizations to go down.
Don’t give to your local organization. Tell them why. tell them when NARAL has new leadership, you’ll give again, but not until then.
And it MUST be done to the regionals: they have to suffer. Not because they’re in the wrong, far from it: as carolyn treiss from CT NARAL said (in my post that I’m too lazy to link to), it’s the regional groups that are doing the work on the ground, and that the DC office corrupted by politics.

Once the regionals lose their support, they will be complaining to DC. Once enough regionals complain or close up shop, the Board will be forced to fire her.

I am afraid I can’t think of any better ideas. Does anyone know who sits on NARAL’s board?

Jane, I don’t have anything insightful to add, simply wanted to say thank you.

Thank you for being out in front on this issue. Thank you for your passion.

I’m still incoherent with rage over this.

My medical decisions are MY business. Those decisions need to be made by ME and MY doctor. NOBODY ELSE.

Not some old man in Congress who won’t have to face my future, and not by someone motivated by their god, who isn’t MY god.

Every pro-choice woman I have talked to since this decision is sooooo bummed. One broke out in tears as she tried to discuss this with her teen age daughter…. “So many of us fought for this once”

My own 83 yr old father wanted the FACTS…. so nurse daughter to Biologist father…. explained that the first test to determine birth defects is done at 14-15 weeks…

he said….. “damn… it’s too late then isn’t it? So if a great-granddad can get it….. “

nolo @
64

partially o/t but

B R E A K I N G!
(2) paul mcnulty to testify before the
judiciary committee this friday, april 27,
according to sen. chuck schumer. . .

From your piece-

Meeting to Consider a Resolution
Authorizing the Chairman to Subpoena
Monica Goodling. . .

developing. . .

I’m wondering if immunity compels testimony-
Is Goodling enjoined from just declining immunity?
Once offered immunity, is she subject to contempt cherges if she refuses to testify?

I think she is taking five as a ruse to protect her former superiors.
What’s the law on this?

I hate to say it, but this SCOTUS decision is good for progressives.

Since Roe was decided, we’ve had 5.5 terms’ worth of conservative presidencies (Nixon/Ford, Reagan x2, Bush 41, Bush 43 x1.5). Up til now, they could throw around federal funding bans and language requirements, but they never had the balls to outright ban abortion. For their part, the public at-large got used to the idea of Roe as a safe, settled federal conclusion. Their own personal views (as reflected by their own actions and those of their local and state reps) push towards abortion as a necessary evil, though with some crazies getting into power to enforce craziness in locales. For these masses, it’s been a given that the choice is (and for a whole generation, always has been) yours.

Now with no further elections in their way, this administration and its lackeys on the SCOTUS have no impediments to their narrow and cruel policies. Roberts for Rehnquist was a wash, but O’Connor for Alito was their plan all along. Wait til after ‘04 was in the books, and start the anti-choice engine chugging. The citizens of this country would not, could not, believe that their elected officials would go against their settled law.

There’s no way to stop Roe from being overturned, only ways to try to keep it from impacting you and your friends and family where you and they live. This is a sad but true fact. Once the laws are passed and men and women are both hit with the realities of the new laws, that is what will galvanize the sheepy (and sleepy) middle to the progressive cause. And thus, this is good for progressives.

I haven’t had a chance to read though the comments, but I just read this diary at Kos about the BYU students protesting Cheney. In the diary is a link to a video – must read, must see.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..164221/350

I’m very concerned that some women will not be able to get this procedure done.
Some will travel abroad. Those who can’t afford it will not be able to.

PS: Leinie, amen.

Would have been interesting- as things turned out- if goopers had gone nuclear- they wouldn’t have the fillibuster now. I’m not sure that they would have pulled the trigger on the thing- may have been all bluff- but they have a history of being pretty short sighted- so who knows.

He may be right but it reflects a pervasive attitude on the part of the Democratic party that women’s reproductive rights just don’t matter, and I do think that the net effect is cumulative and encourages women who might otherwise get politically energized to think there’s nothing in the party worth caring about if the party doesn’t care about them.

Thank you, Jane. Not enough say this out loud. But I would extend it to any women’s issue. Take a look at how women are always told to “wait their turn” for addressing any issue important to us, that “other things are more important,” whether it be abortion, or any of the staggering prices we pay as women for misogyny (rape, domestic violence, socioeconomic inequality, etc.). We’re just patted on our heads and told we’ll get what we want if we’re good little girls and give the boys what they care about first. But it seems like they rarely get around to us. We got a lot more out of the system when we were “bad” girls. A substantial portion of the major advances we won were achieved in the early 70s, when we were raising hell. Want to think of it in a scary new way? Most of the major advancements for women’s rights came during Nixon’s admin. In fact, a lot of the rights we got under Nixon have slowly, but surely, been chipped at until they’re only nubs of what was once there. In some respects, we actually had more rights then than we do now.

What has anyone really done for women since? Name the hallmark feminist issue/law Carter or Clinton supported or pushed through Congress. I’ll wait. You know Reagan and the Bushes did jack shit.

When Nixon is the last great feminist President, you know something is wrong.

If Roe/Wade gets reversed- that’s it for goopers for about ten years. They’ll be banished from a leadership position in government.

katymine @ 77

Every pro-choice woman I have talked to since this decision is sooooo bummed. One broke out in tears as she tried to discuss this with her teen age daughter…. “So many of us fought for this once”

My own 83 yr old father wanted the FACTS…. so nurse daughter to Biologist father…. explained that the first test to determine birth defects is done at 14-15 weeks…

he said….. “damn… it’s too late then isn’t it? So if a great-granddad can get it….. “

The AFP (Alpha Feto Protein) test isn’t done until 12-14 weeks. Neural Tube Defects are most devastating as you could be carrying a child who has an encephalocele or anacephale (without a brain), or severe spina bifida. The really sad thing is, these fuckers don’t want to pay for the medical care these severely disabled children will most surely need.

rwcole @ 84

If Roe/Wade gets reversed- that’s it for goopers for about ten years. They’ll be banished from a leadership position in government.

They don’t have to get rid of Roe. They can leave it just the way it is, but tack on twleve thousand “exceptions” and “explanations” to render it neutered.

Aredubya @ 79

I hate to say it, but this SCOTUS decision is good for progressives.

Since Roe was decided, we’ve had 5.5 terms’ worth of conservative presidencies (Nixon/Ford, Reagan x2, Bush 41, Bush 43 x1.5). Up til now, they could throw around federal funding bans and language requirements, but they never had the balls to outright ban abortion. For their part, the public at-large got used to the idea of Roe as a safe, settled federal conclusion. Their own personal views (as reflected by their own actions and those of their local and state reps) push towards abortion as a necessary evil, though with some crazies getting into power to enforce craziness in locales. For these masses, it’s been a given that the choice is (and for a whole generation, always has been) yours.

Now with no further elections in their way, this administration and its lackeys on the SCOTUS have no impediments to their narrow and cruel policies. Roberts for Rehnquist was a wash, but O’Connor for Alito was their plan all along. Wait til after ‘04 was in the books, and start the anti-choice engine chugging. The citizens of this country would not, could not, believe that their elected officials would go against their settled law.

There’s no way to stop Roe from being overturned, only ways to try to keep it from impacting you and your friends and family where you and they live. This is a sad but true fact. Once the laws are passed and men and women are both hit with the realities of the new laws, that is what will galvanize the sheepy (and sleepy) middle to the progressive cause. And thus, this is good for progressives.

Please explain this, in person, to the women who fall under its draconian, misguided, and dangerous implications. As a man, I have no place in this fight, except to say that my family planning is my fucking business. To suggest that anyone should be able to decide for me or any other human is disgraceful. This is a privacy issue. Period.
Electoral implications misses the point completely.

LJ

Well this was the relatively easy one- every step after this will cost em. I’m not sure that goopers really have a taste for that.

I’m not keeping my powder dry, and may yet face the consequences.

You have to decide if you want to make a difference despite the obstacles. Our ancestors fought to the death for our freedoms. What are we doing? Remember: they can’t kill us all.

With that in mind, I give you my latest report about newborn congenital surgery in Russia.

Each time I become a little bolder in calling out the powers that be to take care of their own citizens. A lesson that could well be applied at home.

I decided long ago that I am willing to die if necessary to accomplish my work, to take the necessary risk, which is not zero in the former Soviet Union. I challenge others to speak boldly and act to save innocent lives.

LJ @ 86, you’ve got it.

They don’t need to overturn Roe. They just need to go right to the edge, and make it *legal* but realistically impossible to actually have one.

No doctors left to perform them – too afraid of criminal proceedings and the cost of the insurance.

Don’t forget, either, the big thing they did – their restrictions don’t go into limbo while litigated any longer. So even if something were to ultimately be declared unconstitutional, how many women were impacted during the YEARS it worked its way through the Courts.

This wasn’t a minor blow. This was crippling.

Rick @
6

when will you people give up on the democrats? this country need more than a two party rule, and will never change until we do.

This country needs a civil war. A final end to the culture wars and a final wake-up call for all the folks who don’t understand that everyday in America is about class warfare. It isn’t about black and white or brown and white, it’s about people watching their dreams die while the friggin parasitic class sucks the life out of them and forces them to work two, three, maybe four jobs to keep up with the Bushes.

It’s way past time, people. These little shits from the Federalist Society have insinuated themselves in all the little niches of government and we will be feeling the effects of their subversion of the constitution and democratic government for generations.

We’re already living the nightmare of a generation of Republican rule (and Clinton wasn’t an interregnum, he was GOP-lite); if you think this is bad just wait. I wouldn’t wish the future on anyone but the Bush family.

Death by a thousand paper cuts sounds right. These people take the long view. They know that the other side is so unorganized and off-message that all they have to do is wait. Really. Watch and see how soon a viable GOP candidate emerges after the Democrats have had their hands in the till for awhile.

The comments in the 4th paragraph about Kennedy & Roberts are pretty far off. Kennedy showed his position on the issue in the first Carhart case, well before Roberts was on the court. Last week’s majority opinion expresses the same ideas that were in his dissent the first time around.

Kennedy is willing to accept limitations on abortions, but not an outright overturning of Roe. This willingness isn’t newfound. See the restrictions that were upheld in Casey. I see little evidence that Roberts’ presence has changed Kennedy’s thinking on the matter.

The point you were making on the show seems substantially different from Prof. Siegal’s point. She said that the current court will be willing to uphold restrictions and that one more Court personnel change could lead to the outright overturning of Roe. It’s not accurate to say that this is the same point as your claim — that the Court, in its current incarnation, would overturn Roe.

Margot @ 81

I’m very concerned that some women will not be able to get this procedure done.
Some will travel abroad. Those who can’t afford it will not be able to.

PS: Leinie, amen.

Republics have always cared mostly about those who can afford things.

The issue of going to somewhere to have the procedure….. The issue is that the changes in passport laws, women will need to have a valid passport. Currently the places locally are only taking applications by appointment only. If you have the money for an expedited application, it will cost $157.00.

So you add up the cost of a passport, travel, lodging and medical fees…..this is beyond many women who make up 70% of people living in poverty.

Rick @ 6

when will you people give up on the democrats? this country need more than a two party rule, and will never change until we do.

That’s really the Nader argument. The Bush years have shown him to be spectacularly wrong.

OT – Tremendous low-key fight on Hardball with Dick Durbin .

katymine @ 94

The issue of going to somewhere to have the procedure….. The issue is that the changes in passport laws, women will need to have a valid passport. Currently the places locally are only taking applications by appointment only. If you have the money for an expedited application, it will cost $157.00.

So you add up the cost of a passport, travel, lodging and medical fees…..this is beyond many women who make up 70% of people living in poverty.

If all those people would vote in their own self interest there would never be another Republic elected. However, they either don’t vote or fall for one of the Republic nonsense issues.

rwcole @ 88

LJ

Well this was the relatively easy one- every step after this will cost em. I’m not sure that goopers really have a taste for that.

Let’s see what happens with the next little paper cut. What will be the response from NARAL and the rest? I have a feeling it won’t go our way, and one more right currently covered by Roe will be gone. It’s happened too many times over the years to be optimistic about the matter.

If I were a Democratic president with ovaries, I would issue an executive order setting up a women’s health clinic with abortions available just inside the front gate of every domestic military installation. They would be staffed by military doctors and ordered to provide services to civilian and military women both. Any protestors would be forcibly ejected from the base.

newtonusr @ 78

nolo @
64

partially o/t but

B R E A K I N G!
(2) paul mcnulty to testify before the
judiciary committee this friday, april 27,
according to sen. chuck schumer. . .

From your piece-

Meeting to Consider a Resolution
Authorizing the Chairman to Subpoena
Monica Goodling. . .

developing. . .

I’m wondering if immunity compels testimony-
Is Goodling enjoined from just declining immunity?
Once offered immunity, is she subject to contempt cherges if she refuses to testify?

I think she is taking five as a ruse to protect her former superiors.
What’s the law on this?

good question here, newtonuser.

here’s the thing: it’s a “deal.”
she agrees to testify truthfully;
they don’t charge her with the crimes
to which her testimony admits. . .

she signs the deal, with her
lawyer’s advice, of course. . .

but, if she lies — all deals are off.

she can still be charged with perjury.

so, if she is subpoenaed, after
receiving immunity, she cannot decline,
unless she wants to go to jail for
contempt of congress. . .

hope this helps. . .

Badwater @ 95

Rick @ 6

when will you people give up on the democrats? this country need more than a two party rule, and will never change until we do.

That’s really the Nader argument. The Bush years have shown him to be spectacularly wrong.

Spectacularly wrong is the understatement of the century. It is what it is, we’re going to have to work with what we have and although not perfect by a long shot is better than anyone in the republic party.

ot: author david halberstam killed in car crash.

http://www.laobserved.com/arch…..lled_i.php

katymine @ 94

The issue of going to somewhere to have the procedure….. The issue is that the changes in passport laws, women will need to have a valid passport. Currently the places locally are only taking applications by appointment only. If you have the money for an expedited application, it will cost $157.00.

So you add up the cost of a passport, travel, lodging and medical fees…..this is beyond many women who make up 70% of people living in poverty.

Your local post offices require appointments? I ask because I worked at a station that processed passports. We never required them. Show up between 9 and 3 weekdays, we have someone ready to help.

Soldier says honor troops.

katymine,
I think this is where I’m going to be putting my $5 donations (or more if I can afford). The places that raise funds for women who need the procedures and can’t afford them.
I just found this, and have not looked into how effective it is:
http://www.nnaf.org/

When are you Democratic Apologists going to admit it? Bush wouldn’t be the problem he is now, if the Democrats hadn’t played lap dog?

Who is the biggest supporter of Bush’s war besides John McCain? Leiberman, Al Gore’s pick for VP in 2000. Who says we need to keep the option of a nuclear first strike against Iran on the table? Hilary Clinton.

Anyone who thinks that change will come in this country by voting for the demopublicrats is delusional.

Lindy @ 104

Soldier says honor troops.

Silly soldier. Bush doesn’t care about dead military. He thinks he can score cheap and quick political points by lowering the flag for the students.

Bob @ 106

When are you Democratic Apologists going to admit it? Bush wouldn’t be the problem he is now, if the Democrats hadn’t played lap dog?

Who is the biggest supporter of Bush’s war besides John McCain? Leiberman, Al Gore’s pick for VP in 2000. Who says we need to keep the option of a nuclear first strike against Iran on the table? Hilary Clinton.

Anyone who thinks that change will come in this country by voting for the demopublicrats is delusional.

ZZZZZZzzzzzzz…..

rosalind @ 102

ot: author david halberstam killed in car crash.

http://www.laobserved.com/arch…..lled_i.php

This is a treacherous piece of road, an approach to a bridge that crosses the SF bay. Very sad.

rwcole @
84

If Roe/Wade gets reversed- that’s it for goopers for about ten years. They’ll be banished from a leadership position in government.

Roe v. Wade has been reversed. It’s just a zombie lurching around looking sort of like Roe v. Wade.

We need to figure out what our strategy now is. Legislative, I guess, since the courts are so slow to turn around.

Bob @ 106

When are you Democratic Apologists going to admit it? Bush wouldn’t be the problem he is now, if the Democrats hadn’t played lap dog?

Who is the biggest supporter of Bush’s war besides John McCain? Leiberman, Al Gore’s pick for VP in 2000. Who says we need to keep the option of a nuclear first strike against Iran on the table? Hilary Clinton.

Anyone who thinks that change will come in this country by voting for the demopublicrats is delusional.

Is this a Nader parody?

Bob @ 106

When are you Democratic Apologists going to admit it? Bush wouldn’t be the problem he is now, if the Democrats hadn’t played lap dog?

Who is the biggest supporter of Bush’s war besides John McCain? Leiberman, Al Gore’s pick for VP in 2000. Who says we need to keep the option of a nuclear first strike against Iran on the table? Hilary Clinton.

Anyone who thinks that change will come in this country by voting for the demopublicrats is delusional.

And if you were really caring about the topic at hand, you wouldn’t be spouting your nonsense at this point. But even though I know better than to feed the troll, I will also state that 99.95% of the individuals who comment on this site are far more aware of Lieberman’s sell-out than you could ever be. And what we are attempting to do is re-claim the soul of teh democratic party.

TeddySan Fran is upstairs.

http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..s/#respond

As a former Gooper, I can tell you two heads of the Hydra that are going to keep coming back:

Abortion and Homosexuality

These are the “raison a vote” for the single-issue low-information/low-communication/low-mobility men and women voters on the Right. And, it’s not just them, I can’t tell you how many educated Catholics I know who’ve had this drummed into them as unquestionable ideology.

It’s emotional, reactive, and not well thought out – but part of the Right’s hold on its base is that they make people feel ashamed for even talking or thinking about these two issues.

If we want to make progress on the Right’s ‘platform’ issues – like abortion, homosexuality, gun control, torture, etc – we have to attack the body of the beast – the heart of the ideological attitude that spawns all these ‘heads.’

We have a great chance right now to bring down not just BushCo, but the entire hate-apparatus of the Right.

Impeach Bush and say ‘goodbye’ to the Hydra for the next 50 years!

newtonusr: yeah, i’m born and raised in menlo park, know that intersection well.

what a sad end to a great talent.

rosalind @ 115

newtonusr: yeah, i’m born and raised in menlo park, know that intersection well.

what a sad end to a great talent.

I crossed the Dumbarton westbound on Saturday. Every time I cross it, I wonder about how those sweeping curves were designed…

leinie @
76

Jane, I don’t have anything insightful to add, simply wanted to say thank you.

Thank you for being out in front on this issue. Thank you for your passion.

I’m still incoherent with rage over this.

My medical decisions are MY business. Those decisions need to be made by ME and MY doctor. NOBODY ELSE.

Not some old man in Congress who won’t have to face my future, and not by someone motivated by their god, who isn’t MY god.

can’t be said enough!

newtonusr @ 116

rosalind @ 115

newtonusr: yeah, i’m born and raised in menlo park, know that intersection well.

what a sad end to a great talent.

I crossed the Dumbarton westbound on Saturday. Every time I cross it, I wonder about how those sweeping curves were designed…

Sad news.

I generally choose the Dumbarton over the San Mateo Bridge when crossing the bay to the 650. I love the views of the salt flats and the old train trestles slowly being reclaimed by nature.

Rick @
6

when will you people give up on the democrats? this country need more than a two party rule, and will never change until we do.

So long as it’s majority rule we will have two primary parties who will always win. So, when are you going to give up on your fairy tale and get in the game?

I wonder how Sandra Day O’Conner is feeling these days? It was her vote that put the Moron Bush into office in 2000, because she wanted to retire and didn’t want her replacement to be named by a Democratic president.

Then, she retires, & we get Alito. She’s got blood on her hands, and should be called on it.

newtonusr @
87

Aredubya @ 79

I hate to say it, but this SCOTUS decision is good for progressives.

Since Roe was decided, we’ve had 5.5 terms’ worth of conservative presidencies (Nixon/Ford, Reagan x2, Bush 41, Bush 43 x1.5). Up til now, they could throw around federal funding bans and language requirements, but they never had the balls to outright ban abortion. For their part, the public at-large got used to the idea of Roe as a safe, settled federal conclusion. Their own personal views (as reflected by their own actions and those of their local and state reps) push towards abortion as a necessary evil, though with some crazies getting into power to enforce craziness in locales. For these masses, it’s been a given that the choice is (and for a whole generation, always has been) yours.

Now with no further elections in their way, this administration and its lackeys on the SCOTUS have no impediments to their narrow and cruel policies. Roberts for Rehnquist was a wash, but O’Connor for Alito was their plan all along. Wait til after ‘04 was in the books, and start the anti-choice engine chugging. The citizens of this country would not, could not, believe that their elected officials would go against their settled law.

There’s no way to stop Roe from being overturned, only ways to try to keep it from impacting you and your friends and family where you and they live. This is a sad but true fact. Once the laws are passed and men and women are both hit with the realities of the new laws, that is what will galvanize the sheepy (and sleepy) middle to the progressive cause. And thus, this is good for progressives.

Please explain this, in person, to the women who fall under its draconian, misguided, and dangerous implications. As a man, I have no place in this fight, except to say that my family planning is my fucking business. To suggest that anyone should be able to decide for me or any other human is disgraceful. This is a privacy issue. Period.
Electoral implications misses the point completely.

On the contrary, electoral implications matter. Since the ‘06 storming of the Congressional Bastille, progressives are fond of saying “Elections have consequences”. They do. 2004 had a highly consequential election as well, where GWB flimflammed, bamboozled and slimed his way to enough votes in enough locales to win reelection. Did he cheat, lie, steal? Sure, I expect he did. But because he did so effectively, and waited patiently for ‘06 to come, he and his cohorts now have the perfect atmosphere to do their damage.

Friend, don’t get me wrong. I am disgusted that this is what it has to come to. I truly wish our citizenry was not so easily fooled by fear and hate. They are, and thus, they deserve the consequences. In liberal bastions, choice rights will live on, and in ‘08 and beyond, we have chances to improve things. But don’t be fooled – in ‘04, we (progressives) lost a battle where choice was barely mentioned by the bad guys, because they knew if they unveiled their real plans, they would lose. They’re evil, not stupid.

That idiot Richard Wolffe is on KO again tonight, saying that the “dems can’t win” vs. Bush on Iraq. As usual, I want to throttle him!!!

Bob @ 106

When are you Democratic Apologists going to admit it? Bush wouldn’t be the problem he is now, if the Democrats hadn’t played lap dog?

Who is the biggest supporter of Bush’s war besides John McCain? Leiberman, Al Gore’s pick for VP in 2000. Who says we need to keep the option of a nuclear first strike against Iran on the table? Hilary Clinton.

Anyone who thinks that change will come in this country by voting for the demopublicrats is delusional.

Anyone who thinks you can split up the Left vote into a zillion ‘third’ parties and still win is delusional.

We don’t have to vote for Hillary or her ilk. We just have to get better people into the process and bring ‘em along to higher positions. You can’t do that if your efforts are all divided.

The worse things get in America the more things stay the same. Nothing changes, things only get worse. America has become so ossified and reactionary that it will take something momentous to break the people out of their lethargy and aquiesence.

Well, that is a problem, and it would be nice if there was an advocacy organization like oh, say, NARAL out there just as agressive as the NRA would be about gun rights letting them know they better fall in line over something this outrageous.

Don’t be so sure about these organizations supporting their members’ rights….many years back there was a bill going through the legislature in CA that would put more restrictions on gun owners. The NRA did nothing to stop the bill from passing. My SO knew a guy who at the time was a big wig in the organization. He admitted, off the record of course, that they intended to let California “fall” in order to get the rest of the country’s gun owners into a panic, thereby raising membership and $$$$$. Maybe NARAL has been reading the NRA playbook…….

I’m a longtime gun owner(female) and have never and would never join the NRA. Have been a NARAL supporter in the past but no more.

Some Democrats think women’s reproductive rights are a given, some imagine they can ignore their importance until after they’re elected (then still fail to remember them), while others are just happy they be lost.

Justice Kennedy threw down the gauntlet that only the latter matter. Time for the rest to show that it is Justice Kennedy’s bygone philosophy of weak-willed women, whom the law must protect but not empower with their own will, that must be stricken from our courts.

pervasive attitude on the part of the Democratic party that women’s reproductive rights just don’t matter
Damn straight, Jane, and exactly why Kos can kiss my ass. Everyone has the right to bodily integrity. You can’t force someone to be pregnant, just like you can’t force someone to give up a kidney.

-ck- @ 24

I was happy that Kilgore seemed to think that choice was an important issue for candidates to address in ‘08, but he seems to think nobody but pro-choice activists care about this.

Single women between 18 and 35 have the lowest rate of voter turnout of any Democratic constituency. They also take their reproductive rights for granted — how can we educate them, to register and vote for their self interest?

There is an organization, Women’s Voices. Women Vote. (wvwv.org) dedicated to bringing single women into the voting fold. Unmarried women are the largest growing demographic in our country, and yet 15 million of them still are not registered. When 500 people in Florida decided the 2000 Presidential election, 22 million single women did not vote. WVWV is non-partisan and does not endorse any candidate, but the organization does have great success with direct marketing techniques and PSA’s to raise the issue of voting with this cohort. WVWV’s Action Fund sends candidate comparisons of issues important to single women, after hearing from these women that they are in need of information from trusted sources ie, not campaign literature. A third of these single women move every election cycle. Half of them earn $30,000 or less. Close to a quarter of them rely on the government for any kind of health care. Any ideas on how to reach and engage the 15 million not registered and the 5 million registered, but not voting, would be appreciated!

Thanks, Jane for staying on this terrible decision, which is anti-mother.
It insists that babies get born, and that more mothers die. Its intent is to intimidate physicians, to stop them from providing prenatal care for women. I agree, Nancy needs to go. NARAL has forsaken women.

Jane,

I think you have it right! I have stood at far too many clinic defenses, argued with far too many ‘reich wing Christian loons’ to think that our ‘powder’ has been kept dry. All of the ‘left’s’ judicious compromises have yielded us nothing! I will seriously consider the ‘arguments’ of the the reich wing the moment one of their guys can go to term and deliver a child. Until then, I want to hear NOTHING from the VRWC! Period!

Jane Hamsher:

I thought I’d let you know I got a NARAL solicitation in the mail (that court decision was their dinner bell) and let them know why I wouldn’t be contributing.

To me, the stunning thing about all this is the different treatment that wingnuts and liberals dish out to their respective bases. The wingers do their best to act on the wishes of their base no matter how inhumane or fatuous those wishes may be. Meanwhile liberals ignore the concerns of their female base because … well, I can’t really think of any good strategic reason for it.