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	<title>Comments on: Can&#8217;t Ignore The Elephant In The Room</title>
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		<title>By: pre-amerikkkan</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/23/cant-ignore-the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-645441</link>
		<dc:creator>pre-amerikkkan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 08:27:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;They have experience in Fielding, they will NOT get caught with evidence, they WILL go to the mattresses on the privilege question.  He lost the fight before, he will do everything in his power, provided they pay him enough, to WIN this time.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;No other way to get those fleas out than to keep on brushing that dang dog!  Some day, FAR in the future, we will have a democratic government again.  Stay strong, be patient.  Root them out and keep squeezing Jacky Boy till he screams.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;BTW, what kept Nixon from destroying everything to save himself?  Whatever it was, 43 doesn’t have it.  Paranoia reigns in bushco right now, we can expect ANYTHING.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Even if they are able to “muddy” the waters or “gum” it to death, eventually, the bush legacy will be revealed for what it really is, a kick in the butt to those of us who have not participated, have not been a true “citizen”, because it is our fault that it has gotten this far out of line.  I found I do love my country, that I am willing to fight for it.  At least, it made us witness a corruption so deep that “The People” woke up simply from the stench of it.  We’ve got celebrate that.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They have experience in Fielding, they will NOT get caught with evidence, they WILL go to the mattresses on the privilege question.  He lost the fight before, he will do everything in his power, provided they pay him enough, to WIN this time.</p>
<p>No other way to get those fleas out than to keep on brushing that dang dog!  Some day, FAR in the future, we will have a democratic government again.  Stay strong, be patient.  Root them out and keep squeezing Jacky Boy till he screams.</p>
<p>BTW, what kept Nixon from destroying everything to save himself?  Whatever it was, 43 doesn’t have it.  Paranoia reigns in bushco right now, we can expect ANYTHING.</p>
<p>Even if they are able to “muddy” the waters or “gum” it to death, eventually, the bush legacy will be revealed for what it really is, a kick in the butt to those of us who have not participated, have not been a true “citizen”, because it is our fault that it has gotten this far out of line.  I found I do love my country, that I am willing to fight for it.  At least, it made us witness a corruption so deep that “The People” woke up simply from the stench of it.  We’ve got celebrate that.</p>
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		<title>By: The Oracle</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/23/cant-ignore-the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-644828</link>
		<dc:creator>The Oracle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 02:45:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/23/cant-ignore-the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-644828</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;If the NSA can exploit the telecommunications companies to surveil American citizens, including hooking into the routers to “wire-tap” messages, then I figure the Bush administration is right now busily having their people do everything possible to erase any record of the RNC emails with the help of the compliant telecommunications companies.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You know it’s happening. I know it’s happening.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Once people noted that some record should exist somewhere of the RNC emails, then the Bush administration would immediately have had their hacks at work finding and deleting them…under the cover of “national security” or some such CYRA (Cover Your Republican Ass) nonsense.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the NSA can exploit the telecommunications companies to surveil American citizens, including hooking into the routers to “wire-tap” messages, then I figure the Bush administration is right now busily having their people do everything possible to erase any record of the RNC emails with the help of the compliant telecommunications companies.</p>
<p>You know it’s happening. I know it’s happening.</p>
<p>Once people noted that some record should exist somewhere of the RNC emails, then the Bush administration would immediately have had their hacks at work finding and deleting them…under the cover of “national security” or some such CYRA (Cover Your Republican Ass) nonsense.</p>
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		<title>By: portia.vz</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/23/cant-ignore-the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-643980</link>
		<dc:creator>portia.vz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/23/cant-ignore-the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-643980</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-643427&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;earlofhuntingdon @&lt;br /&gt;
                117              &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
What I didn’t know was that this was the tip of a much bigger berg.  The RNC’s and the Bush family’s IT consultants have not just ginned up an RNC supercomputer.  According to ePluribus Media, those consultants have installed IT networks in the White House, at the Depts of Justice, State, and Energy, and at some of the top committees on the Hill.  They also have key contracts for state election data processing too, &lt;em&gt;such as Ohio&lt;/em&gt;.
 &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;A horrible thought just crossed my mind: the White House and the RNC are capable of computer blackmail.  It wouldn’t take much for them to take down our entire system, delete bank accounts, screw up social security.  They can mess us up good.  If the Capital Hill Police were asked to escort them out of the building after impeachment, we could never be sure that our whole information system is safe.  Who has the frickin’ superuser passwords?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-643427"><em>earlofhuntingdon @<br />
                117              </em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>
What I didn’t know was that this was the tip of a much bigger berg.  The RNC’s and the Bush family’s IT consultants have not just ginned up an RNC supercomputer.  According to ePluribus Media, those consultants have installed IT networks in the White House, at the Depts of Justice, State, and Energy, and at some of the top committees on the Hill.  They also have key contracts for state election data processing too, <em>such as Ohio</em>.
 </p>
</blockquote>
<p>A horrible thought just crossed my mind: the White House and the RNC are capable of computer blackmail.  It wouldn’t take much for them to take down our entire system, delete bank accounts, screw up social security.  They can mess us up good.  If the Capital Hill Police were asked to escort them out of the building after impeachment, we could never be sure that our whole information system is safe.  Who has the frickin’ superuser passwords?</p>
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		<title>By: portia.vz</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/23/cant-ignore-the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-643951</link>
		<dc:creator>portia.vz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/23/cant-ignore-the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-643951</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&gt;&lt;b&gt;In fact, and the employment lawyers in the audience can back me up on this one, where you have no paper trail whatsoever — no indicia of reprimands or other employee warnings with regard to conduct difficulties and the like, no contemporaneous internal memoranda or dialogue with regard to the need to issue some sort of corrective action with regard to the employee, etc. — that raises a whole lot of red flags in the minds of anyone pursuing a case against that employer. A LOT of questions.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Christie, I’d like to think it raises a lot of red flags but corporations can be very clever.  For example, they can request performance goals for employees but conveniently neglect to actually write them.  Or the person who you thought was your supervisor is not actually the person rating you.  It might be someone higher up.  Or the performance goals can be written so vaguely that the employee could fail to meet them even if he/she does good work.  Or they could put a Jack Welch style Rank-and-Yank rating system in place where your managers and peers rate you.  The danger in that is that sucking up is *required* for keeping your job. It starts looking like a game of Survivor where people are making alliances and voting people off the island.  Both badassness and sycophantic loyalty is required.  Can you bust someone’s corporate culture?  Only if someone complains and in those kinds of cutthroat environments, NO ONE complains.  Think Enron.  The Smartest Guys in the Room will give you a primer of today’s corporate culture.&lt;br /&gt;
There are always ways to skirt the policy, usually by omission or obscurity.  I wouldn’t look at the official paper trail route because it’s likely not very revealing.  It’s the gossipy email that’s going to yield the most bang.&lt;br /&gt;
BTW, when there is a bullying environment at work, the absolute last place you should expect assistance is the HR department.  They go straight to the supervisor and tell everything.  That is probably why David Iglesias didn’t report the call from Domenici.  But his antenna should have been twitching like mad.  The bullied employee’s best chance of survival is good record keeping and networking.  But from what is sounds like, the fired USA’s were carefully kept out of the loop and other USA’s were cautioned to not get involved.  The firings were meant to be a sudden, frightening ambush in order to keep the other ones in line.  Maybe a sympathetic current USA will come forward with information but don’t count on it.  They’re all scared s$%^less&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;<b>In fact, and the employment lawyers in the audience can back me up on this one, where you have no paper trail whatsoever — no indicia of reprimands or other employee warnings with regard to conduct difficulties and the like, no contemporaneous internal memoranda or dialogue with regard to the need to issue some sort of corrective action with regard to the employee, etc. — that raises a whole lot of red flags in the minds of anyone pursuing a case against that employer. A LOT of questions.</b></p>
<p>Christie, I’d like to think it raises a lot of red flags but corporations can be very clever.  For example, they can request performance goals for employees but conveniently neglect to actually write them.  Or the person who you thought was your supervisor is not actually the person rating you.  It might be someone higher up.  Or the performance goals can be written so vaguely that the employee could fail to meet them even if he/she does good work.  Or they could put a Jack Welch style Rank-and-Yank rating system in place where your managers and peers rate you.  The danger in that is that sucking up is *required* for keeping your job. It starts looking like a game of Survivor where people are making alliances and voting people off the island.  Both badassness and sycophantic loyalty is required.  Can you bust someone’s corporate culture?  Only if someone complains and in those kinds of cutthroat environments, NO ONE complains.  Think Enron.  The Smartest Guys in the Room will give you a primer of today’s corporate culture.<br />
There are always ways to skirt the policy, usually by omission or obscurity.  I wouldn’t look at the official paper trail route because it’s likely not very revealing.  It’s the gossipy email that’s going to yield the most bang.<br />
BTW, when there is a bullying environment at work, the absolute last place you should expect assistance is the HR department.  They go straight to the supervisor and tell everything.  That is probably why David Iglesias didn’t report the call from Domenici.  But his antenna should have been twitching like mad.  The bullied employee’s best chance of survival is good record keeping and networking.  But from what is sounds like, the fired USA’s were carefully kept out of the loop and other USA’s were cautioned to not get involved.  The firings were meant to be a sudden, frightening ambush in order to keep the other ones in line.  Maybe a sympathetic current USA will come forward with information but don’t count on it.  They’re all scared s$%^less</p>
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		<title>By: Avenging_Angel</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/23/cant-ignore-the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-643873</link>
		<dc:creator>Avenging_Angel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:31:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/23/cant-ignore-the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-643873</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;That evil little prick!  Any ordinary human would have been relieved to have dodged the bullet that Karl did in the whole Fitzgerald/Libby affair.  Any ordinary human would have laid low and done as little as possible to rock the boat or draw attention to himself… for at least a little while. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;NOT FUCKING KARL ROVE!  He cooks up yet another political assassination.  Eight of them. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Why oh why haven’t we put this prick in jail yet?  What the hell will it take?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That evil little prick!  Any ordinary human would have been relieved to have dodged the bullet that Karl did in the whole Fitzgerald/Libby affair.  Any ordinary human would have laid low and done as little as possible to rock the boat or draw attention to himself… for at least a little while. </p>
<p>NOT FUCKING KARL ROVE!  He cooks up yet another political assassination.  Eight of them. </p>
<p>Why oh why haven’t we put this prick in jail yet?  What the hell will it take?</p>
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		<title>By: fbg46</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/23/cant-ignore-the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-643734</link>
		<dc:creator>fbg46</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:14:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/23/cant-ignore-the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-643734</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;CHS:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You are sooo right re: the employment law aspects of a paper trail.  There are a couple of rules which mgt. employment lawyers advise their clients to follow w/o exception:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;1.  When dealing with an employee who may be headed out the door for conduct/performance reasons — No Surprises.  Make sure the employee knows well in advance that s/he has one foot on a banana peel and the other out the door well before the deed is done, and make sure there is a paper trail documenting everything that got done in this regard.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;2.  The corollary to No. 1:  Triers of fact (juries, judges, arbitrators) subscribe to the notion that if an employee’s conduct/performance is serious enough to get him/her fired, it is serious enough to have all been put in writing.  Failure to have the paper trail leads to the not - illogical inference that . . .&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;3. The employer’s alleged reason for termination is a pretext for the real reason, which the trier of fact will assume is unlawful, otherwise, why lie about it?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;4.  All the blathering about the USAs “serving at the pleasure” of Dear Leader is to a certain extent beside the point.  The analogy to employment law is that all employees are “at will”, which in the real world translates out to they can be fired for a good reason — not doing their job — or for no reason, but they can’t be fired for a bad reason, i.e., because they fall into a protected classification or were engaged in “protected activity” (long legal def. there, but the concept may very well cover the sorts of investigations that several of the fired USAs appear to have been in the midst of).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;5. The David Iglesias situation presents the cleanest case of a protected activity.  Whatever fool in the DOJ who stated Iglesias was being fired for being an “absentee landlord” because he was on Naval Reserve duty committed a prima facie violation of the Uniformed Services Employment and Re-Employment Rights Act.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CHS:</p>
<p>You are sooo right re: the employment law aspects of a paper trail.  There are a couple of rules which mgt. employment lawyers advise their clients to follow w/o exception:</p>
<p>1.  When dealing with an employee who may be headed out the door for conduct/performance reasons — No Surprises.  Make sure the employee knows well in advance that s/he has one foot on a banana peel and the other out the door well before the deed is done, and make sure there is a paper trail documenting everything that got done in this regard.</p>
<p>2.  The corollary to No. 1:  Triers of fact (juries, judges, arbitrators) subscribe to the notion that if an employee’s conduct/performance is serious enough to get him/her fired, it is serious enough to have all been put in writing.  Failure to have the paper trail leads to the not &#8211; illogical inference that . . .</p>
<p>3. The employer’s alleged reason for termination is a pretext for the real reason, which the trier of fact will assume is unlawful, otherwise, why lie about it?</p>
<p>4.  All the blathering about the USAs “serving at the pleasure” of Dear Leader is to a certain extent beside the point.  The analogy to employment law is that all employees are “at will”, which in the real world translates out to they can be fired for a good reason — not doing their job — or for no reason, but they can’t be fired for a bad reason, i.e., because they fall into a protected classification or were engaged in “protected activity” (long legal def. there, but the concept may very well cover the sorts of investigations that several of the fired USAs appear to have been in the midst of).</p>
<p>5. The David Iglesias situation presents the cleanest case of a protected activity.  Whatever fool in the DOJ who stated Iglesias was being fired for being an “absentee landlord” because he was on Naval Reserve duty committed a prima facie violation of the Uniformed Services Employment and Re-Employment Rights Act.</p>
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		<title>By: Knut Wicksell</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/23/cant-ignore-the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-643560</link>
		<dc:creator>Knut Wicksell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:54:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/23/cant-ignore-the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-643560</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-643382&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;landofthefree @ 93 &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;CityGirl - my gut instinct is that the Republicans are actually most concerned about Edwards being the Dem nominee. They can get plenty of anti-Hillary support &amp; money, and even anti-Obama (a lot of people in this country will quietly oppose a female or black president, I’m afraid). Edwards is the one that scares them. So, I expect to see a lot of subtle hit pieces in the future, as they will try to smear him. Smears against Hillary write themselves. They already did some work on Obama. There’s a whispering campaign about Richardson. They are trying to drum up something that will stick against Edwards. And, if there is any truth to the rumors that Gore is considering a run, then they have ammo available for him.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I agree, and the other reason is that he is an experienced trial lawyer who can speak directly to people and make it sound real, the way FDR did.  Clinton had this capacity, too, but exploited it only in his own defense (to his defense he probably didn’t have much choice in the matter). Edwards would be lethal to the thugs, and they know it.  He could mobilize what my mom calls ‘working people’ in a way that no one since FDR and perhaps John Kennedy have done.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-643382"><em>landofthefree @ 93 </em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>CityGirl &#8211; my gut instinct is that the Republicans are actually most concerned about Edwards being the Dem nominee. They can get plenty of anti-Hillary support &amp; money, and even anti-Obama (a lot of people in this country will quietly oppose a female or black president, I’m afraid). Edwards is the one that scares them. So, I expect to see a lot of subtle hit pieces in the future, as they will try to smear him. Smears against Hillary write themselves. They already did some work on Obama. There’s a whispering campaign about Richardson. They are trying to drum up something that will stick against Edwards. And, if there is any truth to the rumors that Gore is considering a run, then they have ammo available for him.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I agree, and the other reason is that he is an experienced trial lawyer who can speak directly to people and make it sound real, the way FDR did.  Clinton had this capacity, too, but exploited it only in his own defense (to his defense he probably didn’t have much choice in the matter). Edwards would be lethal to the thugs, and they know it.  He could mobilize what my mom calls ‘working people’ in a way that no one since FDR and perhaps John Kennedy have done.</p>
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		<title>By: Knut Wicksell</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/23/cant-ignore-the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-643551</link>
		<dc:creator>Knut Wicksell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:48:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/23/cant-ignore-the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-643551</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-643347&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Mae @ 60 &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;I’m still waiting for some principaled whistle blower in  DoJ to sing like a canary.  Have all the good guys already left out of disgust or been fired?  Why can’t someone like Fitz do something?  Arghh!&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;They are singing, to Senate and House Judiciary staffers.  What you see on TeeVee is only the tip of the iceberg.  We have experienced prosecutors working this case now, and they won’t let go.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-643347"><em>Mae @ 60 </em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>I’m still waiting for some principaled whistle blower in  DoJ to sing like a canary.  Have all the good guys already left out of disgust or been fired?  Why can’t someone like Fitz do something?  Arghh!</p>
</blockquote>
<p>They are singing, to Senate and House Judiciary staffers.  What you see on TeeVee is only the tip of the iceberg.  We have experienced prosecutors working this case now, and they won’t let go.</p>
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		<title>By: sfbevster</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/23/cant-ignore-the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-643512</link>
		<dc:creator>sfbevster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/23/cant-ignore-the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-643512</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;In the business world, one generally has to jump thru all sorts of hoops to dismiss a low-performing employee. Any manager knows that when you have a problem employee on your hands, the first thing you do is start documenting poor performance.  Memos to file, off-the-record conferences, on-the-record conferences, etc. etc.  So we’re being asked to believe the DOJ doesn’t do this as well?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the business world, one generally has to jump thru all sorts of hoops to dismiss a low-performing employee. Any manager knows that when you have a problem employee on your hands, the first thing you do is start documenting poor performance.  Memos to file, off-the-record conferences, on-the-record conferences, etc. etc.  So we’re being asked to believe the DOJ doesn’t do this as well?</p>
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		<title>By: Gunga Djinn</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/23/cant-ignore-the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-643481</link>
		<dc:creator>Gunga Djinn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/23/cant-ignore-the-elephant-in-the-room/#comment-643481</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;On Edwards, a haircut &amp; comb is ‘prissy boy’.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;On Reagan, it’s stately, star quality, debonair and rugged!&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s great humor tho, watching them try that tack. Like watching them try to convince the public that Paul Wolfowitz has more appeal &amp; magnetism than say George Clooney or Clint Eastwood.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On Edwards, a haircut &amp; comb is ‘prissy boy’.</p>
<p>On Reagan, it’s stately, star quality, debonair and rugged!</p>
<p>It’s great humor tho, watching them try that tack. Like watching them try to convince the public that Paul Wolfowitz has more appeal &amp; magnetism than say George Clooney or Clint Eastwood.</p>
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