A coverup of torture, racism and complicity in war crimes

The evidence of British abuse and killing of Iraqi civilians is part of an iceberg of disgrace which demands a public inquiry

Phil Shiner
Monday April 23, 2007
The Guardian

Hi Siun, Kiddo. This needs to be said. What kind of people, what kind of parents are we? We are turning our children into murderers and monsters.

Very distrubing, Siun. Thanks for bringing this forward.

Hi Hotflash and Kiddo!

There is some good news – MfI’s daughter-in-law, Erdla (who also posts at GorillasGuides) gave birth this weekend to TWINS! She and Du are very excited and MfI is … grinning nonstop.

In the midst of all the sorrows of our world, it’s a real treat to welcome these two new wonders and to cheer for Erdla and Du. The Guides Iraqi team suggested that they skip posting regular news for a day or so and instead celebrate these new lives.

Consider dropping by to say Bravo – click the link under my name.

Oh. Hey, folks, it’s just some collateral damage. Nothing to see here. Move along.

It’s okay if you’re alive, you’re not HUMAN DEBRIS. I just can’t get over that.

There are links to more info at the Jurist site – which is a very valuable resource:
Jurist on Haditha

OT. The Red Sox have just hit back to back to back to back home runs to take a 4-3 lead over the Yankees in the bottom of the 3rd.

And as godawful as what has happened to the Iraqi people in our name is, I truly dread what state the mental health of the veterans of this horrible war will be.

I met a waitress in Kentucky who told me that her friends who served in Iraq came back with videos of gruesome pictures from the war. She said the pictures were bad enough, but what really upset her was that they didn’t see anything unusual in showing them to everyone proudly and repeatedly.

Like the whale said to the vase of flowers, “oh no, not again!”

Hi to you two, too. ;0)

60 Minutes did a piece tonight on how Iraqis cope in Baghdad amid all the violence. Lara Logan reporting. One was a doctor and family who were booted out of the Green Zone because supposedly they couldn’t afford to continue his sanctuary.

Laura Ingraham was nowhere to be seen.

rxbusa @
9

And as godawful as what has happened to the Iraqi people in our name is, I truly dread what state the mental health of the veterans of this horrible war will be.

I met a waitress in Kentucky who told me that her friends who served in Iraq came back with videos of gruesome pictures from the war. She said the pictures were bad enough, but what really upset her was that they didn’t see anything unusual in showing them to everyone proudly and repeatedly.

Like the whale said to the vase of flowers, “oh no, not again!”

Same thing during ‘Nam. Folks who are in the midst of the hellholes get innured to the nastiness such that it becomes just a routine part of the day. It takes a while for them to re-claim their humanity and some of them never do so.

Sopranos just snarked Chee-knee. We takes our grins where we can get ‘em.

I’m really amazed at the lack of attention to these cases and the ACLU docs – I seem to remember My Lai at least getting noticed and denounced … now, silence.

Hopefully the image of the WWII citizen-soldier fighting the good war may finally be laid to rest. Armies are mobs held in check only by the careful maintenance of a command chain. Asking an army to play policeman has always been an iffy proposition with a definite time limit before the chain starts to fail..

dakine01, this sounds like BushCo

Same thing during ‘Nam. Folks who are in the midst of the hellholes get innured to the nastiness such that it becomes just a routine part of the day. It takes a while for them to re-claim their humanity and some of them never do so.

(Pls pardon OT… multiply EPU’d)
Feeling adventuresome? Interested in who else is in the FDL community, and where they are? Maybe get in touch with them via anonymous message?

Check out this earlier FDL post.

Hope to see you on our unofficial FirePup Fan map. Pls don’t forget to pick the right pin for yourself, and to add a fun “shoutout” and maybe a pic. At this writing, there’re 337 of us with pins! :)
(… and now we return you to your normally-scheduled thread, in progress …)

Siun @ 14

I’m really amazed at the lack of attention to these cases and the ACLU docs – I seem to remember My Lai at least getting noticed and denounced … now, silence.

Ever since the Nuremberg trials, the United States has believed it only belongs on one side of the war crimes trial process….

Oh, Siun, the pictures on your site.

Apropos:
http://www.is.wayne.edu/mnissani/cr/moro.htm

There was a TradMed squib about this immunity sometime last week, which startled me. There has been little more about it, that I have seen.

It certainly sounds like the immunity’s a backstop to prevent further inquiry up the ladder of command. Why immunize the commander if his testimony then assists the shooters? Immunized, he has no incentive to talk about what he told his commanders. Unless, of course, the goal is another coverup, from inside the court-martial process.

This is not justice for Iraqis, but what is? Except — troops home now.

Our military, like any other, has the ability and desire to remove all shreds of decency and humanity from its charges. This is similar to some of the acts in Viet Nam, only there were not many photos or films made by individuals, but it was a different time. War is as close to hell as you can get without being there!! This insane and illegal war that bUSH and his fellow Neo-cons are waging must stop!

Siun @
14

I’m really amazed at the lack of attention to these cases and the ACLU docs – I seem to remember My Lai at least getting noticed and denounced … now, silence.

It still took quite a while for My Lai to get noticed and the outrage to kick-in.

OT, at 8 PM this evening the NYT put up this article, where Arlen Specter says Gonzo is bad for the Justice Department:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04…..es.html?hp

Going, going, Gonzo…

Prairie Sunshine @
16

dakine01, this sounds like BushCo

Same thing during ‘Nam. Folks who are in the midst of the hellholes get innured to the nastiness such that it becomes just a routine part of the day. It takes a while for them to re-claim their humanity and some of them never do so.

Even though I managed to avoid service, I had a lot of friends back home and in college who served in ‘Nam. Some of them were just totally wacked out. Others were that way when they first returned and slowly managed to decompress. I was told all the stories of the guys wearing ears they’d removed and shooting heroin before going into combat. The “War on Drugs” was Nixon’s response to the ease with which drugs were available in ‘Nam. And given what they were going through, I woulda been right with ‘em in the use.

It’s hard enough to keep your sanity when you’re forced to kill other people in a war of self-defense. Imagine how difficult it will be for the men and women over there to come back in one piece mentally.

This is the long-term cost that is going to haunt our nation long after we are able to physically extricate ourselves (if we ever do) from the hell-hole BushCo has created.

Look at those beautiful blankets. The love. The most precious packages. The loss. … In our name. I am so ashamed.

dakine … you are right but I really fear the immunity grants are a more sophisticated way of ensuring no one notices.

dakine01 @ 23

Siun @
14

I’m really amazed at the lack of attention to these cases and the ACLU docs – I seem to remember My Lai at least getting noticed and denounced … now, silence.

It still took quite a while for My Lai to get noticed and the outrage to kick-in.

I find the coincidence of the names…Lt. Kallop and Lt. Calley somewhat creepy.

Siun @ 28

dakine … you are right but I really fear the immunity grants are a more sophisticated way of ensuring no one notices.

Lt Calley was about the only person who went down for My Lai. I forget his Captain’s name but the Capt. was acquited. IIRC, F Lee Bailey was his attorney. It stopped there too even though most folks believed it went higher up the chain. S2D2.

Siun @ 14

I’m really amazed at the lack of attention to these cases and the ACLU docs – I seem to remember My Lai at least getting noticed and denounced … now, silence.

And what’s with the “junior Marines” passing around photos? Like trophy pix? Like a video game? Like Abu Ghraib? What are all the layers of the hell we have made for them, theirs, ourselves, and ours?

rxbusa @
29

dakine01 @ 23

Siun @
14

I’m really amazed at the lack of attention to these cases and the ACLU docs – I seem to remember My Lai at least getting noticed and denounced … now, silence.

It still took quite a while for My Lai to get noticed and the outrage to kick-in.

I find the coincidence of the names…Lt. Kallop and Lt. Calley somewhat creepy.

One small difference although it is meaningless. Because Calley did not have a college degree, the military in their infinite wisdom, decreed that henceforth in order to receive a commision, the individual had to have a college degree. I guess they thought the degree conferred some extra credibility or ethics or something. Looks like they punted that one, huh?

Labrador @ 27

Look at those beautiful blankets. The love. …

I cannot see what your issue is. You can buy those there rugs for just a buck apiece — just ask Senator Lindsay Graham (R-SC)!

:( But seriously, these images make me crazy and sad. And ashamed.

Saturday, January 7, 2006
Hugh Thompson Jnr, a former US military helicopter pilot who helped stop one of the most infamous massacres of the Vietnam War has died, aged 62.

Mr Thompson and his crew came upon US troops killing civilians at the village of My Lai on 16 March 1968. He put his helicopter down between the soldiers and villagers, ordering his men to shoot their fellow Americans if they attacked the civilians. “There was no way I could turn my back on them,” he later said of the victims. Mr Thompson, a warrant officer at the time, called in support from other US helicopters, and together they airlifted at least nine Vietnamese civilians – including a wounded boy – to safety. He returned to headquarters, angrily telling his commanders what he had seen. They ordered soldiers in the area to stop shooting.

But Mr Thompson was shunned for years by fellow soldiers, received death threats, and was once told by a congressman that he was the only American who should be punished over My Lai.

Loo Hoo @ 19

Oh, Siun, the pictures on your site.

More people should see this site. I’m sending it to my e-mail list. It will break their hearts, but hopefully even more people will get pissed.

We have a military which follows its leaders. Only RWAs join the military anymore; looking for an authority which will tell them what to do.

Sadly, that ‘authority’ for our nation is truly deserving of his nickname: ‘President Death’.

Have you had enough yet?

Demand the Congress impeach him and Cheney both. Call or write or email every week until they act.

Impeach Now!

What do you get if you google: Kerry Vietnam testimony? I get E-Bay.

http://search.ebay.com/search/…..query=john Kerry Vietnam

testimony&MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=1&ebaytag1=ebayreg&srchdesc=n&
maxRecordsReturned=300&maxRecordsPerPage=50&SortProperty=MetaEndSort

What?

Moderators, I’m sorry the link crashed the margins, but?

Please Mr. Gore, won’t you run.

A.Citizen @
36

We have a military which follows its leaders. Only RWAs join the military anymore; looking for an authority which will tell them what to do.

Sadly, that ‘authority’ for our nation is truly deserving of his nickname: ‘President Death’.

Have you had enough yet?

Demand the Congress impeach him and Cheney both. Call or write or email every week until they act.

Impeach Now!

If I may respectfully disagree with you on “Only RWAs join the military anymore” as there are still many joining the military in aeas of the south and midwest. They are far from being RWAs and are often from families where the father served in ‘Nam, the grandfather in WWII or Korea and so on. In many of the small towns in the south and midwest, the military is still today, even with the craziness in Iraq, a culturally accepted and promoted means of achieving upwards mobility. Please do not denigrate these citizens for the actions of their leaders in putting them into untenable situation.

Loo Hoo – the site I link to – GorillasGuides
is a joint blog hosted by MarkfromIreland where a team of Iraqi, Danish and Irish bloggers provide daily news from the Iraqi perspective. I find it an essential source of information – and while the pictures are hard to view, they represent the reality of what we do in Iraq every day. The way I see it, if we’re willing to pay taxes to fund the war, we should also look closely at what we are buying.

The Xtianist-led USAF still wants “its war,” though, and thus I fear for the Iranians, and for the world.

LS @
37

What do you get if you google: Kerry Vietnam testimony? I get E-Bay.

I got his statement to congress right on top.

Refresh your browsers and the margins should be restored.

Thanks RBG!

TeddySanFran @ 43

The Xtianist-led USAF still wants “its war,” though, and thus I fear for the Iranians, and for the world.

Agree.

My Lai was well on its way to obscurity before a soldier wrote a letter – a year after the atrocity – relaying a secondhand story of the massacre to Utah Senator Mo Udall. A young journalist named Seymour Hersch made his name interviewing Lt. William Calley – charged with murder – and broke the story to the world.

From the wiki:

“Initial investigations of the My Lai incident were undertaken by the 11th Light Infantry Brigade’s Commanding Officer, Colonel Oran Henderson, under orders from Americal Division Assistant Commanding Officer, Brigadier General Young. Henderson interviewed several soldiers involved in the incident, then issued a written report in late April claiming that approximately 22 civilians were inadvertently killed during the military operation in My Lai. The army at this time was still describing the event as a military victory resulting in the deaths of 128 enemies.”

—

The official death toll at My Lai was 347 civilians.

Siun @
14

I’m really amazed at the lack of attention to these cases and the ACLU docs – I seem to remember My Lai at least getting noticed and denounced … now, silence.

It’s the media, Siun, that makes the difference. The photographic expose in LIFE magazine of My Lai is what made me the Democrat I am today; I remember my horror upon reading the article, seeing all those little bodies that looked like my brother and sister, lying like broken dolls on the ground. My parents never knew I read that particular issue; they probably would have hidden it from me. But I was already on my way to being a Dem after the deaths of MLK and RFK the previous summer; the photos of My Lai only clinched it. I can still see the images burnt into my eight-year-old retinas.

But the media we have today is not at all like the media we had then; Seymour Hersh is still cranking out the same high-quality investigative news, but the photos that provide the one-two punch don’t reach the public. The corporate-owned mainstream media is complicit in so many ways, with NBC/MSNBC being the most obvious example. In 1969, GE didn’t own a media outlet although it may have been a key component of the military-industrial complex. In 2007, GE owns media outlets that propel propaganda-cum-marketing to make them look good, to promote their tax agenda, to promote their brand while protecting their interests in the Long War.

And that goes for the rest of the corporate-owned media, to one degree or another, if any of its corporation also makes money from war.

A’57 @
34

Saturday, January 7, 2006
Hugh Thompson Jnr, a former US military helicopter pilot who helped stop one of the most infamous massacres of the Vietnam War has died, aged 62.

Mr Thompson and his crew came upon US troops killing civilians at the village of My Lai on 16 March 1968. He put his helicopter down between the soldiers and villagers, ordering his men to shoot their fellow Americans if they attacked the civilians. “There was no way I could turn my back on them,” he later said of the victims. Mr Thompson, a warrant officer at the time, called in support from other US helicopters, and together they airlifted at least nine Vietnamese civilians – including a wounded boy – to safety. He returned to headquarters, angrily telling his commanders what he had seen. They ordered soldiers in the area to stop shooting.

But Mr Thompson was shunned for years by fellow soldiers, received death threats, and was once told by a congressman that he was the only American who should be punished over My Lai.

Realized a while ago that 40 years ago today I was transferred from traction to a regular ward at Madigan Hospital at Ft. Lewis WA, recovering from injuries in a helicopter crash.

I was out of the military and back in college when My Lai was disclosed. From what I heard while in the army and afterward from friends who served in Vietnam during the period 66-69, there were a lot of My Lais, especially in the Iron Triangle and around Can Tho in the Mekong Delta. If soldiers then had the digital recording devices and so on which troops have now, our history of Vietnam would be entirely different. There probably are a lot of trophy photos out there, though. I remember seeing a Christmas card that Col. George Patton IV (THE Gen. Patton’s son) sent out for Christmas 1968. He was standing next to a pyramid of hundreds of human heads – Vietnamese – smiling. A friend served in Patton’s armored unit while there. They were really big on turning in large “body counts.”

Oh, yeah – I hate this goddam war!

Rayne @
49

Siun @
14

I’m really amazed at the lack of attention to these cases and the ACLU docs – I seem to remember My Lai at least getting noticed and denounced … now, silence.

It’s the media, Siun, that makes the difference. The photographic expose in LIFE magazine of My Lai is what made me the Democrat I am today; I remember my horror upon reading the article, seeing all those little bodies that looked like my brother and sister, lying like broken dolls on the ground. My parents never knew I read that particular issue; they probably would have hidden it from me. But I was already on my way to being a Dem after the deaths of MLK and RFK the previous summer; the photos of My Lai only clinched it. I can still see the images burnt into my eight-year-old retinas.

But the media we have today is not at all like the media we had then; Seymour Hersh is still cranking out the same high-quality investigative news, but the photos that provide the one-two punch don’t reach the public. The corporate-owned mainstream media is complicit in so many ways, with NBC/MSNBC being the most obvious example. In 1969, GE didn’t own a media outlet although it may have been a key component of the military-industrial complex. In 2007, GE owns media outlets that propel propaganda-cum-marketing to make them look good, to promote their tax agenda, to promote their brand while protecting their interests in the Long War.

And that goes for the rest of the corporate-owned media, to one degree or another, if any of its corporation also makes money from war.

At the time of My Lai, NBC was owned by RCA, which was also a DoD contractor, although not to the level of GE today.

Ed*ard Teller @ 50

Oh, yeah – I hate this goddam war!

Yeah, it’s like imposing Armageddon on each individual human being. What, do they think they’re God? Yes, are they? Not. Enough already.

Ed*ard Teller @ 51

Oh, yeah – I hate this goddam war!

Probably because you are one of the sane folks who saw the horror in war and did not buy the “glory to dog” cr*p espoused by so many idiots.

radiofreewill — Mo Udall was from Arizona.

dakine01 @
30

Siun @ 28

dakine … you are right but I really fear the immunity grants are a more sophisticated way of ensuring no one notices.

Lt Calley was about the only person who went down for My Lai. I forget his Captain’s name but the Capt. was acquited. IIRC, F Lee Bailey was his attorney. It stopped there too even though most folks believed it went higher up the chain. S2D2.

An don’t forget Colin Powell’s part in the cover-up. A

lthough Powell’s attempt to cover up the massacre was unsuccessful, he had at least proven his willingness to do what was necessary to please his bosses. For his two tours of duty in Vietnam, Powell, who was never exposed to serious combat, was awarded the Purple Heart for a minor foot wound he received after stepping on a “punji stick.” He was later awarded a Bronze Star for heroism and the Soldiers Medal for pulling two men free from a non-combat related helicopter crash.

minor correction:

Mo Udall represented Arizona

fitting that his name should come up on Earth Day

cbl @ 57

minor correction:

Mo Udall represented Arizona

fitting that his name should come up on Earth Day

yes, he deserves recognition, today especially!

dakine01 @ 52

At the time of My Lai, NBC was owned by RCA, which was also a DoD contractor, although not to the level of GE today.

But LIFE magazine was the vehicle that carried the Hersh article and the Haberle photos.

I don’t know why LIFE bit it within a couple years after the expose; perhaps the end of the war, the rise of television did it.

Or perhaps the military-industrial complex got to it.

[edited by author to save the margins - watch for the zigs!]

dakine01 @ 41

A.Citizen @
36

We have a military which follows its leaders. Only RWAs join the military anymore; looking for an authority which will tell them what to do.

Sadly, that ‘authority’ for our nation is truly deserving of his nickname: ‘President Death’.

Have you had enough yet?

Demand the Congress impeach him and Cheney both. Call or write or email every week until they act.

Impeach Now!

If I may respectfully disagree with you on “Only RWAs join the military anymore” as there are still many joining the military in aeas of the south and midwest. They are far from being RWAs and are often from families where the father served in ‘Nam, the grandfather in WWII or Korea and so on. In many of the small towns in the south and midwest, the military is still today, even with the craziness in Iraq, a culturally accepted and promoted means of achieving upwards mobility. Please do not denigrate these citizens for the actions of their leaders in putting them into untenable situation.

I do think part of the problem we have now is that there is not more of a cross-section of our society serving. During the Vietnam war draft, the rich kids got out of it if they wanted to, but there were people from all walks so that we all paid attention and knew what was going on. Not that I would wish for anyone to be forced to serve, but it has enabled our society to compartmentalize the war away from themselves. (I don’t know a single person who is fighting in either Iraq or Afghanistan, but I can’t help but pay attention.)

Postal rate increases for large-format magazines killed LIFE, LOOK, and the Saturday Evening Post. Not that the M-IComplex couldn’t have jiggered the postal rates to make that happen. Also: color teevee.

I think the two most important issues I want to know about are: number one, what the candidate intends doing about global warming; number two, what the candidate proposes to achieve peace in the Middle East. For all the Middle East.

TeddySanFran @ 61

Postal rate increases for large-format magazines killed LIFE, LOOK, and the Saturday Evening Post. Not that the M-IComplex couldn’t have jiggered the postal rates to make that happen. Also: color teevee.

It was always on our coffee table.

HotFlash @ 56:

In re: Colin Powell. From what I heard and read, I don’t think I would call stepping on a punji stick as a “minor foot wound.” My understanding was that punjis were often covered in feces and other nasty matter such that the wounds often became infected, causing further problems. The fact that his wound may not have infected in no way mitigates the seriousness of it.

If the Republicans win the WH in 2008, they will take this as a mandate. Just eighteen short months to election time.

There are these VietNam War Criminals, too. You may not have heard of them
Tiger Force
No coverage in Life Magazine, Time or Newsweek. This one was covered up by our friends Cheney and Rumsfeld.

TSF at 55 My apologies to Arizona!

“I’m a one-eyed Mormon Democrat from conservative Arizona, and you can’t have a higher handicap than that.”

~ Mo Udall

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mo_Udall

Oklahoma kiddo @ 65

If the Republicans win the WH in 2008, they will take this as a mandate. Just eighteen short months to election time.

We just won’t let that happen!

Good Evening. Anyone watching 60 minutes?

I feel so bad about what’s happening to the Iraqi people. No end in sight. Grrrrrr

Oklahoma kiddo @ 65

If the Republicans win the WH in 2008, they will take this as a mandate. Just eighteen short months to election time.

the machines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rayne – I certainly agree that the media played a different role during Vietnam – we daily saw what was going on and reporters were not limited to Green Zone remote coverage. That’s why it’s so important for us to look for additional sources. I’ve become quite addicted to Al Jazeera English which you can stream live 24/7 over JumpTV for a low monthly fee – Al Jazeera and BBC World Service (also available streaming live) are critical resources for anyone who wants to view the news with a more global lens.

That said, I am disheartened that even our friends in the blogosphere do very little coverage of issues like the ACLU FOI release and reports like Bargewell’s – we are so wrapped up in the minutiae of american politics that we miss the news the rest of the world is seeing daily.

rbxusa @ 60 says:

(I don’t know a single person who is fighting in either Iraq or Afghanistan, but I can’t help but pay attention.)

I’ve had a cousin who spent more than a year in Iraq and is scheduled to return there next spring (he’s commisioned and got promoted to Capt just after he returned). I also know that the sons of some acquaintances have been in Iraq although I don’t think any of them are there right now. I consider Afghanistan a necessary evil (as most all wars are at best). But Iraq has taken the focus so far from Afghanistan that it is being lost back to the Taliban.

Elliot – thank you for linking to the info on Tiger Force. While the Toledo Blade coverage received tons of awards, it also got very little general attention.

Siun @ 71

I’ve become quite addicted to Al Jazeera English which you can stream live 24/7 over JumpTV for a low monthly fee – Al Jazeera and BBC World Service (also available streaming live) are critical resources for anyone who wants to view the news with a more global lens.

You are so right, Siun, this is what Americans need, to see the world through a global lens.

Siun @ 71

Rayne – I certainly agree that the media played a different role during Vietnam – we daily saw what was going on and reporters were not limited to Green Zone remote coverage. That’s why it’s so important for us to look for additional sources. I’ve become quite addicted to Al Jazeera English which you can stream live 24/7 over JumpTV for a low monthly fee – Al Jazeera and BBC World Service (also available streaming live) are critical resources for anyone who wants to view the news with a more global lens.

That said, I am disheartened that even our friends in the blogosphere do very little coverage of issues like the ACLU FOI release and reports like Bargewell’s – we are so wrapped up in the minutiae of american politics that we miss the news the rest of the world is seeing daily.

It makes me so angry when W and BigTime and the LauraBot talk about how hard it is for Americans, turning on the teevee and seeing the bloodshed in Iraq. Are they delusional? (Another rhetorical question!) And why doesn’t TradMed ever challenge this slander of their coverage? It’s almost as if Dear Leader(s) would like Americans to see bloodshed. Why doesn’t TradMed take the dare, just for one day?

Elliott @ 65

There are these VietNam War Criminals, too. You may not have heard of them
Tiger Force
No coverage in Life Magazine, Time or Newsweek. This one was covered up by our friends Cheney and Rumsfeld.

Helllooooo!!!!

Siun @ 73

Elliot – thank you for linking to the info on Tiger Force. While the Toledo Blade coverage received tons of awards, it also got very little general attention.

You’re welcome!

It should have ripped across the headlines.

What hurts me so much is knowing that now there are poor souls blackened by this War, doing things they never ever would have done otherwise — and paying a life time price for it.
dam* you, Geo. W.

And, if Dahr Jamail is right, the cost of doing business keeps getting higher and higher.

Dahr is also a great source – you can get his reports via email and they are some of the best.

montag @ 78

And, if Dahr Jamail is right, the cost of doing business keeps getting higher and higher.

you made me cry.

Oh, this is a vile and vicious war
dam* you, Geo. W.

It seems like the generals knew what was wrong but someone was stopping them from holding some one responsable. Maybe Rummy? Maybe Cheney?

Siun @ 79

Dahr is also a great source – you can get his reports via email and they are some of the best.

thanks, I’ll check into that.
Your heart is soo big, Siun.

dakine01 @ 72

rbxusa @ 60 says:

(I don’t know a single person who is fighting in either Iraq or Afghanistan, but I can’t help but pay attention.)

I’ve had a cousin who spent more than a year in Iraq and is scheduled to return there next spring (he’s commisioned and got promoted to Capt just after he returned). I also know that the sons of some acquaintances have been in Iraq although I don’t think any of them are there right now. I consider Afghanistan a necessary evil (as most all wars are at best). But Iraq has taken the focus so far from Afghanistan that it is being lost back to the Taliban.

My brother is still here only because he is the only adult in my family that can be my legal guardian, but the nat’l guard unit he started out with is over there now. They have been there exactly a year and they were supposed to come home a month ago. They are helicopter and truck mechanics.

Elliott @ 66

This one was covered up by our friends Cheney and Rumsfeld.

How so?

fyi – The Tiger Force atrocities were 2 years before My Lai – Calley’s platoon came out of the same command as Tiger Force – many think had the Army done something other than clamp it down, maybe MyLai could have been prevented

7 granted immunity ??? I understand there are both enlisted and officers charged, but boy that sounds high – makes me think of what they did immediately following Tillman’s death in Afghanistan – take all standard blackout procedures to an extreme

p.s. Toledo Blade was also the paper that broke the Noe/Coingate series ;)

Two things, among others of course, I read everyday. Aljazeera and Haaretz.

Elliott @
68

Oklahoma kiddo @ 65

If the Republicans win the WH in 2008, they will take this as a mandate. Just eighteen short months to election time.

We just won’t let that happen!

AGGGHHHH! Don’t depress us all!

SnarKassandra @ 83

My brother is still here only because he is the only adult in my family that can be my legal guardian, but the nat’l guard unit he started out with is over there now. They have been there exactly a year and they were supposed to come home a month ago. They are helicopter and truck mechanics.

That’s a shame, SnarKassandra.
BushCo. is decimating the Guard. Abusing it, and abusing the concept.

cbl @ 85

p.s. Toledo Blade was also the paper that broke the Noe/Coingate series ;)

thanks for the tidbit!

great paper! we need more reporters with guts.

How wonderful that your situation, SK, as challenging as it may be, has at least kept your brother stateside and safe.

SnarKassandra @ 87

AGGGHHHH! Don’t depress us all!

don’t worry, not gonna happen:
PELOSI For President 2007

rxbusa @
84

Elliott @ 66

This one was covered up by our friends Cheney and Rumsfeld.

How so?

Timing. The investigation per the wiki link above is during the time when Rummy was Ford’s DoD and Cheny his CoS.

This one was covered up by our friends Cheney and Rumsfeld.

How so?

The investigation was apparently killed at the highest levels of government in November 1975 — the same month Donald Rumsfeld began his first term as defense secretary under President Gerald Ford and Dick Cheney began as White House chief of staff

Elliott @ 88

SnarKassandra @ 83

My brother is still here only because he is the only adult in my family that can be my legal guardian, but the nat’l guard unit he started out with is over there now. They have been there exactly a year and they were supposed to come home a month ago. They are helicopter and truck mechanics.

That’s a shame, SnarKassandra.
BushCo. is decimating the Guard. Abusing it, and abusing the concept.

And each time the guard has to send equipment they end up sending older and worse equipment and not better stuff, and stuff which is not as safe.

One of you who researches stuff should write about the difference between pre-armor and up-armor and why the frag kits are still in use and why the humvees are still in use.

TeddySanFran @ 90

How wonderful that your situation, SK, as challenging as it may be, has at least kept your brother stateside and safe.

We all know! We are grateful for it every day.

dakine01 @
64

HotFlash @ 56:

In re: Colin Powell. From what I heard and read, I don’t think I would call stepping on a punji stick as a “minor foot wound.” My understanding was that punjis were often covered in feces and other nasty matter such that the wounds often became infected, causing further problems. The fact that his wound may not have infected in no way mitigates the seriousness of it.

Ummhmm. Water buffalo shit, which, like the shit of most ungulates, contains lots of tetanis spores, was a favourite. I didn’t call it minor, I was quoting from some folks who had been there. I know no details, the only other source that mentioned Powell’s punji stick incident said he was ‘slightly wounded‘. In general, it seems that punji stick woulds, like gunshot wounds, rate purple hearts. But I was really talking about Powell and My Lai.

Elliott @
88

SnarKassandra @ 83

My brother is still here only because he is the only adult in my family that can be my legal guardian, but the nat’l guard unit he started out with is over there now. They have been there exactly a year and they were supposed to come home a month ago. They are helicopter and truck mechanics.

That’s a shame, SnarKassandra.
BushCo. is decimating the Guard. Abusing it, and abusing the concept.

Iraq is part of why Katrina was as difficult to deal with as approx. 50% of the first responders from LA guard was in Iraq when it hit. No one knew their jobs so things got skipped or done half-fast.

I have family in the military. Some have been to Iraq twice. None of these, I hold dear, think we sould be there.

I have my Teevee set to Washingon Journal, then Democracy Now, then Washington Journal. (OT: Our parakeet, “Burt”, loves to sing along to Washington Journal’s music)…I found him sitting on my student’s horse (literally) last year at a horse show in Texas. Someone lost him, but he’s fine and has free rein in the house. I wish his former family knew he was okay.

OT, excuse please.

42 top World Bank officials call on Wolfowitz to leave.

http://thinkprogress.org/

dakine01 @ 30

Siun @ 28

dakine … you are right but I really fear the immunity grants are a more sophisticated way of ensuring no one notices.

Lt Calley was about the only person who went down for My Lai. I forget his Captain’s name but the Capt. was acquited. IIRC, F Lee Bailey was his attorney. It stopped there too even though most folks believed it went higher up the chain. S2D2.

Medina. I think Calley also eventually only served a brief time in jail.

SnarKassandra @ 94

And each time the guard has to send equipment they end up sending older and worse equipment and not better stuff, and stuff which is not as safe.

One of you who researches stuff should write about the difference between pre-armor and up-armor and why the frag kits are still in use and why the humvees are still in use.

It’s NOT 2004, it’s not 2005, it’s not even 2006 anymore: and yet still, the soldiers lack full protection. May your brother stay safe. Thank him for stepping up, too.
DYGW

Won’t it be great of my party, the Democrats, inherit the Iraq war, or worse. And then we take to the streets just like way back with LBJ. I don’t like this scenerio.

Loo Hoo @ 99

OT, excuse please.

42 top World Bank officials call on Wolfowitz to leave.

http://thinkprogress.org/

Is that like everybody in America wanting Gonzo to resign? Good f’ing luck.

Elliott @ 102

SnarKassandra @ 94

And each time the guard has to send equipment they end up sending older and worse equipment and not better stuff, and stuff which is not as safe.

One of you who researches stuff should write about the difference between pre-armor and up-armor and why the frag kits are still in use and why the humvees are still in use.

It’s NOT 2004, it’s not 2005, it’s not even 2006 anymore: and yet still, the soldiers lack full protection. May your brother stay safe. Thank him for stepping up, too.
DYGW

What is DYGW? My brother is serving at a base here in Texas. Also a mechanic, but fixing the stuff that gets used within Texas and teaching new mechanics about the army trucks.

Loo Hoo @
100

OT, excuse please.

42 top World Bank officials call on Wolfowitz to leave.

http://thinkprogress.org/

I read somewhere that Zhang, Wolfie’s deputy, actually demanded he resign in a staff meeting, to his face. Also, the Germans are done with him.

There was an excerpt in the SF Chronicle today of a speech by ex-Sec of Defense William Perry saying in response to a question that he was not in favor of premature withdrawal from Irag: 2 years ago would have been premature, today it is overdue.

This is off topic, but, being a huge Democrat and a huge supporter of ACORN and other equal economic opportunity organizations, why in the world are we Democrats not taking the FairTax and running with it?
I’ve had several fellow party members tell me that it is regressive and preys on the poor. Unfortunately, I believe they are misinformed. In actuality, the FairTax reimburses all U.S. citizens up to the poverty line and it brings more jobs to American soil! What gives?
Are’nt we the party of social justice? Don’t we condemn the other side for protecting the interests of U.S. social elites too often? This is a chance for American’s to finally shed a regressive tax structure. I employ anyone reading to research what I have said, see it for yourself, and then put pressure on our leaders to make a change for the better.
http://www.fairtax.org

DW
dw2777 AT uab DOT edu

SnarKassandra @ 105

What is DYGW? My brother is serving at a base here in Texas. Also a mechanic, but fixing the stuff that gets used within Texas and teaching new mechanics about the army trucks.

oh sorry, shorthand for
Dam* You, George W.
I’ve been using it a lot lately.

42 top World Bank officials call on Wolfowitz to leave.

***

This may be a stupid question, but is it accurate to say that Wolfowitz serves “at the pleasure of the president” like so many other folks in the news these days? Or is there anybody else who could pull the plug on him?

I think we need to rename the “Peter principle” to the ‘Paul (Wolfowicz) principle’.

DYGW. That’s excellent!

CD @ 110

42 top World Bank officials call on Wolfowitz to leave.

***

This may be a stupid question, but is it accurate to say that Wolfowitz serves “at the pleasure of the president” like so many other folks in the news these days? Or is there anybody else who could pull the plug on him?

I’m not positive but I don’t think the pres of the WB fits the “at the pleasure…” scenario. It is a nominally independent organization, although the president of the WB is appointed by POTUS. Not sure what it takes to get rid of a non-functioning pres but I think we are seeing it with the Germans et al and their no confidence.

TeddySanFran @
106

Loo Hoo @
100

OT, excuse please.

42 top World Bank officials call on Wolfowitz to leave.

http://thinkprogress.org/

I read somewhere that Zhang, Wolfie’s deputy, actually demanded he resign in a staff meeting, to his face. Also, the Germans are done with him.

Hey, I didn’t realize I was #100. Are congratulations in order?

DavidW @ 108

This is off topic, but, being a huge Democrat and a huge supporter of ACORN and other equal economic opportunity organizations, why in the world are we Democrats not taking the FairTax and running with it?

Why? Because it’s a scam.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 111

I think we need to rename the “Peter principle” to the ‘Paul (Wolfowicz) principle’.

The Dilbert Principle. After someone has reached the Peter Principle, they are then promoted beyond their level of incompentence to get them out of the way. supposedly.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 111

I think we need to rename the “Peter principle” to the ‘Paul (Wolfowicz) principle’.

In more ways than one.

S.O.S. from MA @ 33

Labrador @ 27

Look at those beautiful blankets. The love. …

I cannot see what your issue is. You can buy those there rugs for just a buck apiece — just ask Senator Lindsay Graham (R-SC)!

:( But seriously, these images make me crazy and sad. And ashamed.

So often in my helplessness, I try to say something glib, or distance myself, rale at the political forces. But these beautiful blankets, with loved ones… or the father holding his dead daughter… or… all done in my name. There are no words tonight.

It is the age old process of taking grief and anger and turning it to love/action. I feel very lost and powerless, while trying to affect change. I think most of us do when faced with these atrocities – by which I mean almost anything this damn administration has touched. The only thing I know is to be as informed as I can, and to try to move with honor in their name.

LoudounLib @ 112

DYGW. That’s excellent!

maybe it should be DYGWB, so there’s no mistake.

Based on yesterday’s thread about financial aid, we now have a story up on our site.

We invaded Iraq for Israel and Oil.

Oil and Israel.

Y’all want to end the killing? Then stick with the fucken program.

Oklahoma kiddo @ 111

I think we need to rename the “Peter principle” to the ‘Paul (Wolfowicz) principle’.

yeah, the definition is self-evident.

SnarKassandra @ 120

Based on yesterday’s thread about financial aid, we now have a story up on our site.

ps that is a sharp website, you really get the word out, and in detail.
Substance and style

Siun @
14

I’m really amazed at the lack of attention to these cases and the ACLU docs – I seem to remember My Lai at least getting noticed and denounced … now, silence.

Remembering back, it seems to me that we had more widely read print media. Look, Life, etc. Not as much news coverage, but enough so that people did watch or hear some news. So we all saw the visual image of the little girl on fire, running, for instance. I know i’ll never forget that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Bank#Presidency

The World Bank President is selected by the US government and approved by a 5 person Board of Directors. Serves 5 years.

DavidW @
108

This is off topic, but, being a huge Democrat and a huge supporter of ACORN and other equal economic opportunity organizations, why in the world are we Democrats not taking the FairTax and running with it?
I’ve had several fellow party members tell me that it is regressive and preys on the poor. Unfortunately, I believe they are misinformed. In actuality, the FairTax reimburses all U.S. citizens up to the poverty line and it brings more jobs to American soil! What gives?
Are’nt we the party of social justice? Don’t we condemn the other side for protecting the interests of U.S. social elites too often? This is a chance for American’s to finally shed a regressive tax structure. I employ anyone reading to research what I have said, see it for yourself, and then put pressure on our leaders to make a change for the better.
http://www.fairtax.org

DW
dw2777 AT uab DOT edu

I’ll look at that when I’m not tired. I’d like to hear a debate on it.

Elliott @ 123

SnarKassandra @ 120

Based on yesterday’s thread about financial aid, we now have a story up on our site.

ps that is a sharp website, you really get the word out, and in detail.
Substance and style

Thanks! I am one of the editors. I just re-vamped the ABOUT page.

The World Bank President is selected by the US government and approved by a 5 person Board of Directors. Serves 5 years.

Britain, France, and Germany are the next largest contributors after US – all three have said they will withhold loan programs funding until he is removed

The WB Presidency is a kabuki dance. Its President is chosen by an international board of donor countries’ representatives, after politely asking the US President whom he might recommend. We’re the WB’s biggest donor country. Never has the WB had a non-US person at the helm. Although — I read that an Afghani’s in the running to succeed Wolfowitz (but would be “recommended” by Bush).

Another international agency, driven into the ditch by American bad actors, US influence shrunken, probably for good. It’s possible the WB may not survive this crisis — other donors could simply withdraw if Paulson continues to back Wolfie, making it no longer the WB but the USB.

Some would argue the end of the WB would not be a bad thing, however. The Chinese, for instance.

I recently found out (probably here) Al Jazeera television News has been denied the rights to broadcast at all on the likes of Direct TV in the USA.

Could we call that 21st century book burning? I thought we had freedom of speech or at least freedom to subscribe…. but noooo.

England, France and Germany are at their Wolfowitz end.

-GSD

OT but a little humor from the LA Times via HuffPost. Smarter than W?

Siun @ 71

Rayne – I certainly agree that the media played a different role during Vietnam – we daily saw what was going on and reporters were not limited to Green Zone remote coverage. That’s why it’s so important for us to look for additional sources. I’ve become quite addicted to Al Jazeera English which you can stream live 24/7 over JumpTV for a low monthly fee – Al Jazeera and BBC World Service (also available streaming live) are critical resources for anyone who wants to view the news with a more global lens.

That said, I am disheartened that even our friends in the blogosphere do very little coverage of issues like the ACLU FOI release and reports like Bargewell’s – we are so wrapped up in the minutiae of american politics that we miss the news the rest of the world is seeing daily.

Agreed, Siun, bloggers don’t cover enough besides American politics — but that’s constrained by several key points:

1) Bloggers write about content that appears in their media — and unfortunately, corporate-owned media filters out virtually everything but a few topics. Much of the media we get is also from now-global entities, so that it also acts to shut down content elsewhere (ex. Rupert Murdoch). (And don’t get me started on the Italian press and that fascist Berlusconi.) Resources like Newseum.org should really be used more broadly.

2) In spite of English becoming a more global lingua franca, much of the real news is not in English — and Americans, thanks to the continued dumbing down of its education system over the last couple of decades and the current assault by No Child Left Behind — do not learn as many foreign languages as they should. Certainly more people speak Spanish (or Spanglish) in America, but can they read it? How many of us read Arabic? Hindi? Pinyin?

3) Until the American body politic undergoes a sea change, the first two points and all other negative matters remain locked firmly in place. There is a need to focus heavily on American politics in order to make it change. For this reason there will be some resistance to looking for more to cover, since it could mean taking one’s eyes off the ball.

It’s going to be rough sledding for while, Siun.

Eureka Springs @ 130

I recently found out (probably here) Al Jazeera television News has been denied the rights to broadcast at all on the likes of Direct TV in the USA.

Could we call that 21st century book burning? I thought we had freedom of speech or at least freedom to subscribe…. but noooo.

Freedom of speech and to subscribe as long as it is approved speech and subscriptions.

Elliott @ 66

There are these VietNam War Criminals, too. You may not have heard of them
Tiger Force
No coverage in Life Magazine, Time or Newsweek. This one was covered up by our friends Cheney and Rumsfeld.

On Feb. 19, 1970 a five-man squad from the 1st Marine Division went on a search-and-destroy mission for Viet Cong in a small village, Son Thang, and ordered 16 women and children from three huts and executed them. Within a day, the Marines began investigating, resulting in convictions of Pvts. Michael Schwarz and Samuel Green. Schwarz was sentenced to life imprisonment and Green to five years. But both sentences later were reduced to one year. One of the Marines wasn’t tried at all and two were acquitted, including Pvt. Randall Herrod, who led the team. Private Herrod got help at trial from then-Lt. Oliver North, who credited the private with saving his life in Vietnam.

SnarKassandra @ 127

Thanks! I am one of the editors. I just re-vamped the ABOUT page.

I like it! easy to use, intuitive — as they say; and attractive, which matters, too.

The World Bank Presidency? For Mr. Wolfowicz, I call that a platinum parachute. Or blackmail.

dakine01 @ 132

OT but a little humor from the LA Times via HuffPost. Smarter than W?

He’s definitely articulate!

cbl @ 128

The World Bank President is selected by the US government and approved by a 5 person Board of Directors. Serves 5 years.

Britain, France, and Germany are the next largest contributors after US – all three have said they will withhold loan programs funding until he is removed

Good, the sooner he’s gone the better. This is just flat out embarrassing.

montag @
115

DavidW @ 108

This is off topic, but, being a huge Democrat and a huge supporter of ACORN and other equal economic opportunity organizations, why in the world are we Democrats not taking the FairTax and running with it?

Why? Because it’s a scam.

We have a regressive tax structure that supposedly has those making more paying more for a very simple reason. It is based on the premise that to those much is given, much is expected. A FairTax type deal does nothing but impose a national sales tax that would have far more impact on the middle class than on the corporate elites and their obscene incomes.

Why did the Dems support NAFTA and CAFTA?

Oklahoma kiddo @ 141

Why did the Dems support NAFTA and CAFTA?

The corporate masters that Clinton bowed down to asked for it. Also Rubin and Reich were the Wall St emissaries to Clinton and convinced him those were good ideas.

Siun,

Interesting article in Xinhua that says the world is NOT flat.

Not so fast Friedman.

“The world is in reality a slop on which information flows downward from developed countries to developing countries and regions,” Liu said.

-GSD

dakine01 @ 140

We have a regressive tax structure that supposedly has those making more paying more for a very simple reason. It is based on the premise that to those much is given, much is expected. A FairTax type deal does nothing but impose a national sales tax that would have far more impact on the middle class than on the corporate elites and their obscene incomes.

“We have a regressive tax structure….”

Umm, don’t you mean “progressive?”

We do have a progressive tax structure, but by less and less as time goes by.

montag @ 144

dakine01 @ 140

We have a regressive tax structure that supposedly has those making more paying more for a very simple reason. It is based on the premise that to those much is given, much is expected. A FairTax type deal does nothing but impose a national sales tax that would have far more impact on the middle class than on the corporate elites and their obscene incomes.

“We have a regressive tax structure….”

Umm, don’t you mean “progressive?”

We do have a progressive tax structure, but by less and less as time goes by.

Thank you for the correction. The FairTax WOULD be the regressive one.

dakine01 @ 145

Thank you for the correction. The FairTax WOULD be the regressive one.

Well, we’ll call that one a Freudian slip. :)

just so it’s written down somewhere before we move on to the next atrocity -

are we gonna find out Wolfowitz was doing more than giving his girlfriend raises and non existent jobs ?!?!? really, how soon before we find out there’s all kinds of money missing, or disbursed along ‘non-traditional’ lines ?!?!?

the only thing that keeps it unlikely is the World Bank is staffed by actual banking professionals . . .but I’m willing to go over to Regent Univ. Alumni page just to see how many are pleased to announced they are doing the Lord’s work over at the World Bank

Well, it’s certainly a LOT more regressive than it was six years ago.

dakine01 @ 142

Oklahoma kiddo @ 141

Why did the Dems support NAFTA and CAFTA?

The corporate masters that Clinton bowed down to asked for it. Also Rubin and Reich were the Wall St emissaries to Clinton and convinced him those were good ideas.

Only three letters I’d add to your astute analysis. DLC. ;0)

Is there gonna be a LATE NIGHT tonight?

omg

It’s not one ghetto in Baghdad, it’s at least ten. And our commanders are calling them “gated communities.”

BAGHDAD — The U.S. military is walling off at least 10 of Baghdad’s most violent neighborhoods and using biometric technology to track some of their residents, creating what officers call “gated communities” in an attempt to carve out oases of safety in this war-ravaged city.

snip

In some sealed-off areas, troops armed with biometric scanning devices will compile a neighborhood census by recording residents’ fingerprints and eye patterns and will perhaps issue them special badges, military officials said.

cbl @ 147

just so it’s written down somewhere before we move on to the next atrocity -

are we gonna find out Wolfowitz was doing more than giving his girlfriend raises and non existent jobs ?!?!? really, how soon before we find out there’s all kinds of money missing, or disbursed along ‘non-traditional’ lines ?!?!?

the only thing that keeps it unlikely is the World Bank is staffed by actual banking professionals . . .but I’m willing to go over to Regent Univ. Alumni page just to see how many are pleased to announced they are doing the Lord’s work over at the World Bank

Also, what about before they went to the World Bank? That was an awful lot of our cash money that evaporated.

Strategic Hamlets Gated Communities

TeddySanFran @ 151

omg

It’s not one ghetto in Baghdad, it’s at least ten. And our commanders are calling them “gated communities.”

BAGHDAD — The U.S. military is walling off at least 10 of Baghdad’s most violent neighborhoods and using biometric technology to track some of their residents, creating what officers call “gated communities” in an attempt to carve out oases of safety in this war-ravaged city.

snip

In some sealed-off areas, troops armed with biometric scanning devices will compile a neighborhood census by recording residents’ fingerprints and eye patterns and will perhaps issue them special badges, military officials said.

Is that the freedom we are bringing them?

TeddySanFran @ 151

omg

It’s not one ghetto in Baghdad, it’s at least ten. And our commanders are calling them “gated communities.”

I posted something about this early morning on last night’s late nite.

One of those is reputed to be Sadr City, according to the Arabic press. That’s a lot of Baghdad….

TeddySanFran @
151

omg

It’s not one ghetto in Baghdad, it’s at least ten. And our commanders are calling them “gated communities.”

BAGHDAD — The U.S. military is walling off at least 10 of Baghdad’s most violent neighborhoods and using biometric technology to track some of their residents, creating what officers call “gated communities” in an attempt to carve out oases of safety in this war-ravaged city.

snip

In some sealed-off areas, troops armed with biometric scanning devices will compile a neighborhood census by recording residents’ fingerprints and eye patterns and will perhaps issue them special badges, military officials said.

Special badges, sounds familiar. Gated ethnic areas sounds familiar too.

Let me think….

-GSD

dakine01 @ 134

Eureka Springs @ 130

I recently found out (probably here) Al Jazeera television News has been denied the rights to broadcast at all on the likes of Direct TV in the USA.

Could we call that 21st century book burning? I thought we had freedom of speech or at least freedom to subscribe…. but noooo.

Freedom of speech and to subscribe as long as it is approved speech and subscriptions.

It’s so that it can be the boogeyman. Kind of like a shiny object. (terrist)

TSF – Abu-Baghdad-Prison no doubt sponsored by Halliburton an un American company.

insanity

SnarKassandra @ 150

Is there gonna be a LATE NIGHT tonight?

I hope so. I live for Late Night.

Special badges, sounds familiar. Gated ethnic areas sounds familiar too.

Let me think….

-GSD

You are thinking about Hitler, right? And the ghettos in Poland? We read about that in school.

SnarKassandra @ 160

Special badges, sounds familiar. Gated ethnic areas sounds familiar too.

Let me think….

-GSD

You are thinking about Hitler, right? And the ghettos in Poland? We read about that in school.

Bingo!

BADGES !! ??

TeddySanFran @ 162

BADGES !! ??

We don’t need no stinkin’ badges…

TeddySanFran @ 162

BADGES !! ??

They don’t need no stinkin’ badges!

LoudounLib @ 163

TeddySanFran @ 162

BADGES !! ??

We don’t need no stinkin’ badges…

Jinx! almost!

The US is reportedly telling Israel to not negotiate with the Syrians.

It would be a “stab in the back” to the Siniora Govt. in Lebanon.

Also, are folks planning for another summer war?

There are elements in the US doing their level best to keep that region agitated and warring.

-GSD

Elliott ;-)

GSD @ 166

The US is reportedly telling Israel to not negotiate with the Syrians.

It would be a “stab in the back” to the Siniora Govt. in Lebanon.

Also, are folks planning for another summer war?

Theeir are elements in the US doing their level best to keep that region agitated and warring.

-GSD

Our government is STUPID STUPID EVIL EVIL!

Elliott @ 165

LoudounLib @ 163

TeddySanFran @ 162

BADGES !! ??

We don’t need no stinkin’ badges…

Jinx! almost!

Yeah, but which one can tell you the FIRST movie the line came from?

And, of course, biometric badges so some U.S. technology corporation will make many millions creating them….

So this week countless hundreds are bombed to oblivion.

Bush declares no more iraqi troop training.

Bushco decides to redisign Baghdad into ten large prison cells.

And, behold, by the sixth paragraph, WaPo drops the inconvenient and perhaps-ironically-interpreted quotation marks:

Soldiers and military officials said that it was too early to evaluate the success of Baghdad’s gated communities and that adjustments would be made according to results and residents’ feedback, some of which has been negative. But they insisted the measure is worth a try in the city’s bloodiest neighborhoods.

“We’ve really taken a hard look and said, ‘This is an area where we need to monitor people coming in and people coming out . . . and it is the only way we could do it,’ ” Campbell said.

(waives to LoundounLib)

I’m with Cassie, Late Night is Late – did Trex sleep in?

SnarKassandra @ 150

Is there gonna be a LATE NIGHT tonight?

Cassie,

I went to check out your blog. I really like it best of luck. Sometimes latenight is a little late. Be patient grasshopper.

lolo

oh jeeze dakine….thinking…thinking…

dakine01 @ 169

Yeah, but which one can tell you the FIRST movie the line came from?

I always thought it was “Treasure of the Sierra Madre.” Could be wrong, though.

g’day petedownunder!

They’re also building these charming walls in Baquba … again, “not for sectarian reasons but for security”

So much of the “strategy” used by US forces in Iraq are a carbon copy of the tactics used by Israel against the occupied territories. We’ve seen how well that works …

LoudounLib @ 175

oh jeeze dakine….thinking…thinking…

There’s a newer movie that sometimes gets the credit by people who are unaware.

Maliki announced during a visit to Egypt that he had ordered a halt to the construction by US troops of the controversial five-kilometre (three-mile) barrier around the Sunni enclave of Adhamiyah in mainly Shiite east Baghdad.

US commanders had said earlier that they planned to build similar walls around other restive neighbourhoods of the capital but a string of Iraqi politicians spoke out against the plans, accusing Washington of further hardening the capital’s already tense sectarian divide.

link

could someone look at this pic and tell me where the materials came from ?

There are two governments I distrust above all others. Mine. And the Israeli government.

montag @ 176

dakine01 @ 169

Yeah, but which one can tell you the FIRST movie the line came from?

I always thought it was “Treasure of the Sierra Madre.” Could be wrong, though.

That’s it. Some folks who’ve never seen Treasure think it came first from Blazing Saddles I’ve won some money on that bet.

Treasure of the Sierra Madre.

I give – I confess, not a big movie buff. That quote just always seems to come up though. And I bet it’s not “Blazing Saddles”, is it?

dakine01 @ 142

Oklahoma kiddo @ 141

Why did the Dems support NAFTA and CAFTA?

The corporate masters that Clinton bowed down to asked for it. Also Rubin and Reich were the Wall St emissaries to Clinton and convinced him those were good ideas.

I think it was a little more complex than that; Rubin and Reich did a lot of great work to turn a tanking economy around after the Reagan-PoppyBush years.

What I believe made NAFTA and CAFTA failures was a naive belief that the world is a level playing field; proponents looked more at the likelihood of bringing more work to the U.S. by reducing barriers, rather than looking at real costs and who pays them around the world, if ever.

But that’s also the same failure with universal healthcare; most folks arguing against it miss the real costs of not providing it, including the economic barrier to manufacturers in this country who are competing against manufacturers in countries where governments and not manufacturers provide it.

Bugs the snot out of me that Americans have a real problem with systemic thinking…

IMPEACH!

GSD – I was reading some Lebanese sites last week and there’s a pretty fatalistic (or quite realistic) assumption that this summer will look like last. Folks should get Robert Fisk’s Pity the Country for an understanding of Lebanon’s history.

SnarKassandra @ 150

Is there gonna be a LATE NIGHT tonight?

Patience, young Jedi.

LoudounLib @
184

I give – I confess, not a big movie buff. That quote just always seems to come up though. And I bet it’s not “Blazing Saddles”, is it?

The folks who think “Blazing Saddles” never seem to realize that Brooks pretty much never originates anything but steals and parodies everything.

Mommybrain @ 183

Treasure of the Sierra Madre.

I held off, thinking there was an earlier movie….

Maliki says no to wall in Sunni neighborhood

“I oppose the building of the wall and its construction will stop,” al-Maliki said during a joint news conference with the secretary-general of the Arab League.

when i publish something on my own personal blog, is someone allowed to copy the WHOLE thing and publish it on a blog called Politics

public archives without the name of my blog being there at all????

dak, if you’re still out there…

My late f-i-l was defense counsel for a Vietnam soldier who killed a cab driver in a blizzard between Fargo and Grand Forks. He “reported” to the GF sheriff and turned in the man’s i.d. Defense was based on post traumatic stress…not guilty.

EvilDrPuma @ 188

SnarKassandra @ 150

Is there gonna be a LATE NIGHT tonight?

Patience, young Jedi.

I am Princess Leia from movie 4. Like her a lot better than the queen. Any other women to choose from?

dakine01 @ 189

LoudounLib @
184

I give – I confess, not a big movie buff. That quote just always seems to come up though. And I bet it’s not “Blazing Saddles”, is it?

The folks who think “Blazing Saddles” never seem to realize that Brooks pretty much never originates anything but steals and parodies everything.

True, that.

.

GSD @ 156

Special badges, sounds familiar. Gated ethnic areas sounds familiar too.

Let me think….

-GSD

Ah, but you don’t live in BushWorld, do you?

You see, to the base, a gated community is a wonderful thing to which one aspires, like the ones in South Florida where the riff-raff cannot enter without having paid 25 to 50K for club membership and $2000/month maintenance fees and the only brown-skinned people are the worker bees cutting the grass and cleaning the pristine pools or bringing your Grey Goose martini to you as you alight from your golf cart after a tough day on the links with your f*cking-wealthy-like-you peeps.

Sure, it’s an ethnic enclave, if you will; you don’t want any of THOSE people on your course, do you, now?

“In the summer of 1940, Heydrich, under the pretext of containing an outbreak of typhus among the Jews in Warsaw, established a special section in the Polish capital, enclosed by a brick wall 10 feet high and 11 miles in circumference. The cost of the wall’s construction was paid by the Judenrat, the 24-member Jewish Council, which was placed in charge of Jewish affairs inside the ghetto. In September 1940, more than 80,000 non-Jewish Poles living in the “infected area” were ordered to leave, and over the next month Gestapo agents removed about 140,000 assimilated Jews from the economic and cultural life of the city and moved them into the ghetto. In all, some 360,000 Jews, one-third of Warsaw’s population, were thus herded into a 3.5-square-mile area. On November 15, the ghetto’s 22 entrances were closed, effectively sealing it off from the rest of the city.”

Prairie Sunshine @ 193

dak, if you’re still out there…

My late f-i-l was defense counsel for a Vietnam soldier who killed a cab driver in a blizzard between Fargo and Grand Forks. He “reported” to the GF sheriff and turned in the man’s i.d. Defense was based on post traumatic stress…not guilty.

Not a surprise. I heard stories while in the service of guys who had PTSD and started firing at shadows while on duty at night. No charges for same reason.

SnarKassandra @ 194

I am Princess Leia from movie 4. Like her a lot better than the queen. Any other women to choose from?

Not really. Lucas ain’t much for strong female characters. (If Padme had just at least died fighting to live long enough to give Luke and Leia a good start…but no, she had to “lose the will to live” because her husband gave in to his perpetual impulse control problem…)

petedownunder, long time no talk. Hope you and TFMrsDU are doing well. How are things in Oz?

The Palestinians know about walls.

Eureka Springs, what do you mean that Bush says no more training of Iraqi soldiers?

cbl @
196

I held off, thinking there was an earlier movie….

It’s a Brando film – Viva Zapata

Treasure was four years earlier than Zapata.

Siun @ 187

Folks should get Robert Fisk’s Pity the Country for an understanding of Lebanon’s history.

Just so people can find it properly, the title is, Pity the Nation.

Cheers.

Snarkassandara,

That was the historical comparison I was making….but it is frankly a time tested tactic of occupying powers.

It is also something that ends up expediting ethnic cleansing.

People will be ID’d and they’ll be in enclaves that are harder to escape from due to being walled off.

-GSD

Siun,

It really appears that this will indeed be a war redux in Israel/Lebanon…..But I have the sneaking suspicion that there will be incidents that expand the war beyond Israel and Lebanon and into Syria…which may be the way of dragging Iran into the conflict due to their mutual support pact. Then guess who jumps in.

Loo Hoo @ 204

Eureka Springs, what do you mean that Bush says no more training of Iraqi soldiers?

I read it on the tubes… let me see if I can find a link.

A’57 – thank you for the details …

dakine01 – I realized that the second I hit submit and I was straight up wrong anyway

SnarKassandra @ 192

when i publish something on my own personal blog, is someone allowed to copy the WHOLE thing and publish it on a blog called Politics

public archives without the name of my blog being there at all????

Did someone do that? I don’t know blog law/etiquette, but sure sounds wrong to me.

LoudounLib @ 202

petedownunder, long time no talk. Hope you and TFMrsDU are doing well. How are things in Oz?

Thanks for asking – things have been really busy. TFMrsDU is well and also working hard. I came back to the US today for two weeks to catch up on stuff here, plus a conference in Palm Springs (tough duty but someone has to) How are things in VA? ( BTW the Aussies were appalled at the VaTech killings – they had a similar incident in 1996 and basically bought back every gun in the place, no repeats after that).

Eureka Springs @ 208

Loo Hoo @ 204

Eureka Springs, what do you mean that Bush says no more training of Iraqi soldiers?

I read it on the tubes… let me see if I can find a link.

Not a surprise there. Even BushCo can’t still try to sell the “We’ll stand down as they stand up” line with a straight face.

Loo Hoo @ 186

IMPEACH!

PELOSI for President 2007!

women and children killed in their beds…

oh jesus fuck. what does one say?

we are hokies?

Montag – thank you! brain slip there …

It’s a stunning book – I read it last summer during the war on Lebanon and it was shocking to see the Israelis repeating precisely the horrific actions they had used before.

cbl @ 210

dakine01 – I realized that the second I hit submit and I was straight up wrong anyway

Now here’s some trivia. What speaking part actor from Treasure is still alive?

Siun @ 209

A’57 – thank you for the details …

I’d say “my pleasure”, but it sure as hell isn’t

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 215

women and children killed in their beds…

oh jesus fuck. what does one say?

we are hokies?

After the dems win in ‘08 we humbly beg the forgiveness of everyone in Iraq.

SnarKassandra @ 192

when i publish something on my own personal blog, is someone allowed to copy the WHOLE thing and publish it on a blog called Politics

public archives without the name of my blog being there at all????

Send us link to what you are talking about. They should credit you if it is original work or from the site they are obtaining it.

Eureka Springs -

McClatchy on abandonment of when they stand up

http://www.realcities.com/mld/…..104704.htm

Loo Hoo @ 211

SnarKassandra @ 192

when i publish something on my own personal blog, is someone allowed to copy the WHOLE thing and publish it on a blog called Politics

public archives without the name of my blog being there at all????

Did someone do that? I don’t know blog law/etiquette, but sure sounds wrong to me.

Yes! It does not have Political teen tidbits or frecklescassie.wordpress.com anywhere. WordPress does 2 sentences and then a link, but this is my whole article including pictures.

Siun @ 215

Montag – thank you! brain slip there …

It’s a stunning book – I read it last summer during the war on Lebanon and it was shocking to see the Israelis repeating precisely the horrific actions they had used before.

The Israeli’s are now being driven by pride too. They were the “invincible ones” prior to last summers’ debacle. After that conflict they failed to meet a single objective stated.

Now the military has to win back their prestige…..Can’t let anyone think they are losers.

Loo Hoo – Quick search provides this article.

Training Iraqi troops no longer driving force in U.S. policy

Mary – the Iraqis will never forgive us nor should they.

Sometimes walls are not visible. Ask someone who lives on an Indian Reservation.

dakine01 @ 216

cbl @ 210

dakine01 – I realized that the second I hit submit and I was straight up wrong anyway

Now here’s some trivia. What speaking part actor from Treasure is still alive?

Robert Blake?

dakine01 @ 217

Now here’s some trivia. What speaking part actor from Treasure is still alive?

That would be the beggar boy who tries to sell Dobbs a lottery ticket, Robert Blake, I think.

petedownunder, things are fine, if subdued, here in VA in the wake of Va Tech. Many funerals and memorial services this weekend. Tomorrow will be one week since the incident. Somehow it seems longer than that.

Welcome back to the States, and I hope Palm Springs isn’t too much of a drag ;-)

SnarKassandra @ 221

Yes! It does not have Political teen tidbits or frecklescassie.wordpress.com anywhere. WordPress does 2 sentences and then a link, but this is my whole article including pictures.

It’s amazing how many people you can find on the Internets who have no idea why plagiarism is WRONG!!!! Unfortunately, I don’t know what kind of recourse you have, unless you want to post about it on your blog and name names.

Cassie, this does link to your site.

Double Standards for Nancy Pelosi
Sunday 08th April, 2007
Also published at http://youthinkleft.com�

The Palestinians will never forgive us. And they should not.

Elliott and montag you’re both correct. Guess it was easier than I thought. Blake shows up in a lot of movies from the forties.

Siun @ 225

Mary – the Iraqis will never forgive us nor should they.

Maybe the question is can we forgive ourselves?

AZ Matt @ 231

Cassie, this does link to your site.

Double Standards for Nancy Pelosi
Sunday 08th April, 2007
Also published at http://youthinkleft.com�

No, that is part of what I put when I cross-post at my personal site and youthinkleft

dakine01 @ 232

Elliott and montag you’re both correct. Guess it was easier than I thought. Blake shows up in a lot of movies from the forties.

Wasn’t Blake also in some of the Our Gang movies?

once again, we’re at the point where reality trumps The Onion.

Everyone and their dog “calls for” Gonzo to resign. Everyone else and their dog “calls for” Wolfo to resign.

And yet the sun riseth, and setteth…..and still they have jobs.

AZ Matt @ 231

Cassie, this does link to your site.

Double Standards for Nancy Pelosi
Sunday 08th April, 2007
Also published at http://youthinkleft.com�

And they did not ask my permission!!!!

Mary McCurnin @ 233

Maybe the question is can we forgive ourselves?

Can we? Sure. But–and I can only speak for myself on this–my forgiveness don’t come cheap.

EvilDrPuma @
229

SnarKassandra @ 221

Yes! It does not have Political teen tidbits or frecklescassie.wordpress.com anywhere. WordPress does 2 sentences and then a link, but this is my whole article including pictures.

It’s amazing how many people you can find on the Internets who have no idea why plagiarism is WRONG!!!! Unfortunately, I don’t know what kind of recourse you have, unless you want to post about it on your blog and name names.

Cassie, I’m seeing a link where it says “posted also at http:\thinkleftyouth” and at the bottom is a posted at frecklescassie citation. I’m using a safari browser.

AZ Matt @ 226

Sometimes walls are not visible. Ask someone who lives on an Indian Reservation.

Nor is the mental illness that is returning to this country by the tens of thousands.

cbl @ 220

Eureka Springs -

McClatchy on abandonment of when they stand up

http://www.realcities.com/mld/…..104704.htm

Whoa, I missed that entirely.

Jet lag has got me – say hi to Trex when he shows up. G’night firepups.

LoudounLib @ 235

dakine01 @ 232

Elliott and montag you’re both correct. Guess it was easier than I thought. Blake shows up in a lot of movies from the forties.

Wasn’t Blake also in some of the Our Gang movies?

I believe so. I was rather surprised when I noticed he is also in the Tyrone Power/Orson Welles movie “The Black Rose” set in the same time frame as “Braveheart.”

g’night pete

Eureka Springs @ 223

Loo Hoo – Quick search provides this article.

Training Iraqi troops no longer driving force in U.S. policy

Thanks, ES.

SnarKassandra @ 237

AZ Matt @ 231

Cassie, this does link to your site.

Double Standards for Nancy Pelosi
Sunday 08th April, 2007
Also published at http://youthinkleft.com�

And they did not ask my permission!!!!

“Also published?” As if you had made some kind of deal with these people? At a minimum, they should credit it as “originally published,” and for God’s sake give you the author a name.

Apparently, somebody thinks they’re the Reader’s Digest of the blogosphere…except that RD actually has to mind some p’s and q’s when it reprints others’ intellectual property.

petedownunder @ 243

Jet lag has got me – say hi to Trex when he shows up. G’night firepups.

Good night.

Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 214

women and children killed in their beds…

oh jesus fuck. what does one say?

we are hokies?

What do you mean by this commnet, “hokies?” My only reference is VA Tech… what are you really saying here?

SnarkKassandra,

Are you talking about the Pelosi article? It does give you credit right under the title.

goodnight, PDU!

This was the original post.

And this is what it says at the bottom, complete with links.

Like most of my posts, this is cross-posted at Political Teen Tidbits and at YouThinkLeft.

SnarKassandra @ 154

Is that the freedom we are bringing them?

It is precisely what would happen if an invader couldn’t be any more bothered than, say, if a monument of an American city drowned & died…

Mary McCurnin @ 233

Siun @ 225

Mary – the Iraqis will never forgive us nor should they.

Maybe the question is can we forgive ourselves?

I don’t think forgiveness is the most useful concept here.

Loo Hoo @ 249

SnarkKassandra,

Are you talking about the Pelosi article? It does give you credit right under the title.

It gives an “also published at,” but that alone is a misrepresentation, implying that Cassie was part of some arrangement to co-publish her work. IMO, she has every reason to be upset. This site is taking others’ work without their permission and representing it as if it were written to be posted there.

I hope the 2002 midterm gains were worth it. Some people..

EvilDrPuma @ 255

Loo Hoo @ 249

SnarkKassandra,

Are you talking about the Pelosi article? It does give you credit right under the title.

It gives an “also published at,” but that alone is a misrepresentation, implying that Cassie was part of some arrangement to co-publish her work. IMO, she has every reason to be upset. This site is taking others’ work without their permission and representing it as if it were written to be posted there.

thank you. we only found it because we are making a wikipedia for the YouThinkLeft site and looked to see who links to us.

Fern @ 253

Mary McCurnin @ 233

Siun @ 225

Mary – the Iraqis will never forgive us nor should they.

Maybe the question is can we forgive ourselves?

I don’t think forgiveness is the most useful concept here.

Sometimes I cannot tell if what I feel is guilt or sorrow.

EvilDrPuma @ 254

Loo Hoo @ 249

SnarkKassandra,

Are you talking about the Pelosi article? It does give you credit right under the title.

It gives an “also published at,” but that alone is a misrepresentation, implying that Cassie was part of some arrangement to co-publish her work. IMO, she has every reason to be upset. This site is taking others’ work without their permission and representing it as if it were written to be posted there.

True.

Mary McCurnin @ 257

Sometimes I cannot tell if what I feel is guilt or sorrow.

For what it’s worth, I feel sorrow and outrage. I don’t feel much guilt personally, because I know damned well I opposed this from the start.

dakine01 @ 232

Elliott and montag you’re both correct. Guess it was easier than I thought. Blake shows up in a lot of movies from the forties.

google *g*

Loo Hoo @ 258

True.

The downside is that Cassie probably has little recourse other than word of mouth.

A belated thanks to Siun for your excellent post.

EvilDrPuma @ 262

Loo Hoo @ 258

True.

The downside is that Cassie probably has little recourse other than word of mouth.

Brendon is writing a copyright sentence for my site and the YTL site.

Josh Marshall tells us to remember the name Bradley J. Schlozman, and to stay tuned!!

TRex is upstairs —>>>>

TRex upstairs,

SnarKassandra @ 263

Brendon is writing a copyright sentence for my site and the YTL site.

Good move. This isn’t like, say, Watertiger posting links and capsule summaries, or TRex posting a link and excerpt as part of a Late Nite post. This is a plain and simple misrepresentation of the relationship (or lack of one) between author and publisher.

EvilDrPuma @ 268

SnarKassandra @ 263

Brendon is writing a copyright sentence for my site and the YTL site.

Good move. This isn’t like, say, Watertiger posting links and capsule summaries, or TRex posting a link and excerpt as part of a Late Nite post. This is a plain and simple misrepresentation of the relationship (or lack of one) between author and publisher.

Brendon says my stuff was probably stolen by a robot and not by a person. Do you think that is true?

LoudounLib – thanks.

I’d like to see us demanding proper treatment for Iraqis – and enforcement of the Geneva Accords – doesn’t seem like too much to ask of the new Majority, eh?

Late Night! new thread

Loo Hoo @ 264

Josh Marshall tells us to remember the name Bradley J. Schlozman, and to stay tuned!!

Oh, Josh finally caught up with Senator Kennedy about this bad puppy Schlozman.

About time.

SnarKassandra @ 256

EvilDrPuma @ 255

Loo Hoo @ 249

SnarkKassandra,

Are you talking about the Pelosi article? It does give you credit right under the title.

It gives an “also published at,” but that alone is a misrepresentation, implying that Cassie was part of some arrangement to co-publish her work. IMO, she has every reason to be upset. This site is taking others’ work without their permission and representing it as if it were written to be posted there.

thank you. we only found it because we are making a wikipedia for the YouThinkLeft site and looked to see who links to us.

Cassie, it might bring you traffic. You could send them an email and tell them to ask next time or to remove it. Maybe you should ask them to write something about your blog in exchange for their transgression. It would be a way for more teens to find out about you site. Kudos to Cassie, somebody is cribbing your work!

Rayne @ 271

Loo Hoo @ 264

Josh Marshall tells us to remember the name Bradley J. Schlozman, and to stay tuned!!

Oh, Josh finally caught up with Senator Kennedy about this bad puppy Schlozman.

About time.

Incredibly, Bradley Schlozman, the inexperienced political appointee who oversaw approval of the Georgia ID law and the retaliation against the career staff, was rewarded with an appointment as interim U.S. Attorney for the Western District of Missouri. He has served in that capacity for a year without Senate confirmation.

from your Slozman link

TeddySanFran @
172

And, behold, by the sixth paragraph, WaPo drops the inconvenient and perhaps-ironically-interpreted quotation marks:

Soldiers and military officials said that it was too early to evaluate the success of Baghdad’s gated communities and that adjustments would be made according to results and residents’ feedback, some of which has been negative. But they insisted the measure is worth a try in the city’s bloodiest neighborhoods.

“We’ve really taken a hard look and said, ‘This is an area where we need to monitor people coming in and people coming out . . . and it is the only way we could do it,’ ” Campbell said.

Democracy Iraq Style …….

Thank you, Siunshine.

signed,

A blade in your fan club…)

dakine01 @
189

LoudounLib @
184

I give – I confess, not a big movie buff. That quote just always seems to come up though. And I bet it’s not “Blazing Saddles”, is it?

The folks who think “Blazing Saddles” never seem to realize that Brooks pretty much never originates anything but steals and parodies everything.

“I do not borrow, I steal” – Picasso

a lot of great artists have done just that ……

dakine01 @
212

Eureka Springs @ 208

Loo Hoo @ 204

Eureka Springs, what do you mean that Bush says no more training of Iraqi soldiers?

I read it on the tubes… let me see if I can find a link.

Not a surprise there. Even BushCo can’t still try to sell the “We’ll stand down as they stand up” line with a straight face.

and he never said “Stay the course.” ……

Siun @
215

Montag – thank you! brain slip there …

It’s a stunning book – I read it last summer during the war on Lebanon and it was shocking to see the Israelis repeating precisely the horrific actions they had used before.

in the first Lebanon war, Jacobo Timmerman, an Argentinian jew who had been forced to immigrate to Israel by the Argentinian government after he had won the Nobel Prize accused the Israeli Government of acting just like the Nazis (thanks to the actions of Ariel Sharon and his colleagues). The world is full of ironies …..

Let me just say right up front, that at close to three hundred comments, I am not reading the whole thread prior to commenting, so here goes anyway:

I have to take exception to the phrase, “with troops commmitting crimes like this…”

Let me be clear: “Troops” don’t commit crimes. A group of mudering criminals committted these crimes. Once they committed those acts, of even foormed the intent to do so, they ceased to be “troops”.

Call them what they are: Fucking criminals.

montag @
146

dakine01 @ 145

Thank you for the correction. The FairTax WOULD be the regressive one.

Well, we’ll call that one a Freudian slip. :)

Two comments:

1) How can we say ‘all men are created equal’ and that this is a land of ‘equal opportunity’ and then tax people at several different tax rates?

2) The regressive nature should be ameliorated by not taxing essentials of life (like healthcare, housing, food, clothing, transportation, utilities) and by ensuring taxation of ALL transactions the Rich use (such as purchasing stocks or bonds).

I’d like to see a study of THAT kind of flat tax system.

If Dems hope to bring in some Libertarian types to win more western states, then we should consider some policies of interest to them. Balancing the budget of a smaller less-intrusive federal government is obviously one of their other primary interests.

Eureka Springs @
207

Loo Hoo @ 204

Eureka Springs, what do you mean that Bush says no more training of Iraqi soldiers?

I read it on the tubes… let me see if I can find a link.

Here are a couple.

Murtha and Obey both asked that the current appropriation include not onlt benchmarks for assessing progress in the surge, and a timelijne for withdrawal, but also that troop readiness be a criteria for deployment TO IRAQ!

http://www.americanprogressact….._veto.html

http://www.cfr.org/publication…..iness.html