(Author Carlo Bonini and his editor, Kelly Burdick (who will be doing some translating and transcribing for Carlo) join us in the comments. Please welcome them both — JH)
I'd like to thank Jane for giving me the opportunity to guest host today's FDL Book Salon. I am pleased to introduce the latest book by Carlo Bonini and Giuseppe D'Avanzo – Collusion: International Espionage and the War on Terror. Bonini and D'Avanzo, who work for the Italian newspaper La Repubblica, are two of the top investigative journalists in Italy and I want to thank them for taking the time to discuss their book and their work with readers.
Here is what Seymour Hersh has to say about their reporting (reproduced from the back flap of the book):
These two reporters are truth seekers who do the kind of hard, honest work that all reporters should do – find the truth and print it. If we've learned anything since George W. Bush began his war on terror, it's that the old adage – that the first casualty of war is the truth – lives on, and on. In their reporting on the fake Niger documents on yellowcake, which is one of the stories you'll find in the book, Carlo Bonini and Giuseppe D'Avanzo have lived up to the highest standards of the profession.
Their Newsweek colleague Michael Isikoff calls them the Woodward and Bernstein of Italian journalism. Let's just say, given what we've learnt in the past six years, they are more like the Bernstein of Italian journalism.
Although Bonini and D'Avanzo became prominent in American blogospheric circles for their investigative reporting on the Nigergate scam, Collusion is not just about the Niger forgeries. It is about broader Italian government malfeasance under former Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, and the collusion of the former Italian Government with the Bush White House in the perpetration of the worst kind of fraud on the American public, the Italian public and the world at large. Their stories – including several key revelations from Bonini and D'Avanzo over the years – expose some of the deplorable actions of their Government in the aftermath of September 11, 2001, mirroring the systematic and pervasive criminal enterprise set up by the Bush White House on this side of the Atlantic. Examples include the role of the Italian intelligence agency SISMI in the creation of the forgeries and dissemination of the fabricated Niger uranium claims, the passive collusion between the Italian government and the Bush administration on the aluminum-tubes-for-centrifuges hoax, and the Italian backstory to the extraordinary rendition of radical cleric Abu Omar.
The book certainly does not disappoint. Since I have more than a passing familiarity with the Nigergate scam, let me make some observations on their coverage of this story. More than anyone else, Bonini and D'Avanzo are responsible for revealing the entrenched role of SISMI in the whole uranium from Africa hoax. It has long been obvious to me that this must have been a very difficult story for them to write about, given how SISMI treated those that SISMI perceived as enemies. It took considerable tenacity and courage to keep going, dig deeper, and expose the corruption and systematic fraud that was at the root of this scandal emanating from Italy. They really deserve a lot of kudos for this. As Bonini remarked in a recent interview with James Marcus (who translated their book into English) at Netscape Blog (yes, I just discovered last night that Netscape has a strange blog):
Bonini: That's what we discovered. September 11 was an extraordinary opportunity for Rocco [Martino] — but also for SISMI and for Silvio Berlusconi…who had just come into power. Berlusconi was desperately seeking a privileged relationship with the White House. At the same time, George W. Bush was trying to prove that Saddam Hussein was a clear and present danger not only to American interests but to the world as a whole. The yellowcake dossier fit the bill perfectly. So SISMI decided to share the contents of those documents with U.S. intelligence–first in September 2001, then on several other occasions. They shared them with the British, too.
…
Marcus: Were you and your partner ever discouraged from following up on the story?Bonini: We were under enormous pressure at times. The right-wing press started attacking us, saying that we had personal motives–or worse, that we were reporting on behalf of some mysterious U.S. intelligence officers. Four years later, I still can't understand what sort of argument they were trying to make. It probably reflected the fact that SISMI was afraid of being blamed for the whole mess by the CIA. So yes, there were moments when we felt alone. "Either we're nuts," we told ourselves, "or we're right." I mean, it was hard to believe that Rocco Martino's phony documents ended up in the White House. But that's what happened!
A key aspect of what Bonini and D'Avanzo discuss in their book is what they refer to as "competitive intelligence". Bonini explains this in the interview:
Bonini: Competitive intelligence is a well known disinformation technique. It's a way to disorient your enemy by giving credence to false information. The yellowcake dossier is a perfect example. You basically steer a piece of rogue intelligence through official channels, until it's incorporated into a white paper. At this point, policy makers read the white paper and ask for further intelligence. Then the vicious circle begins: since the original dossier has already been shared with agencies in other countries, it can be "confirmed" by outside sources. It's like an echo chamber.
This is an excellent observation and is more than apt given what we have lived through for the past several years. In fact, I would go a step further and mention another key ingredient in this kind of fraud, as I wrote earlier this year:
Put another way, the quality of the original forgeries would be largely irrelevant to bad actors who intended to "mainstream" the contents in a manner that preserved "plausibility", while being able to cover their a** by attributing the "intel" to a documentary source that they would never have to reveal… The fact that Rocco Martino may have (inadvertently?) thrown cold water on that game by trying to peddle the original forgeries independently to other agencies is a separate issue that should not be confused with SISMI's intent to "mainstream" the forgeries. Thus, the subsequent creation and dissemination by SISMI of information derived from (and not from) the forgeries – information that was cherry-picked and sometimes altered in order to intentionally create plausible "intel" – is really the key to answering the question of motive.
In a nutshell, the argument that these forgeries were used to support a disinformation campaign (to promote a pro-war policy) is not just based on the fact that they were forgeries or bizarre forgeries. Rather, the argument is primarily based on the fraudulent "intel" that was cooked up using disinformation from the forgeries – disinformation that was cherry-picked and altered to create plausible "intel", with the full knowledge that the ultimate source for the claims (the forged dossier) was transparently false. This was fundamentally no different and in fact worse than what was done by individuals tied to the Iraqi National Congress (INC) who fabricated claims about Iraq's non-existent biological weapons.
No book about post 9/11 fearmongering and WMD fraud is complete without a mention of the media's role in it. It shouldn't come as a surprise to readers that, just like in the US, where the traditional media has been dominated for years by the corrupt, incompetent and willing propagandists of the Republican party (from the editorial pages of the Washington Post and the Wall Street Journal to the gangrenous sewers of talk radio and cable TV) – always eager to please the GOP with their regurgitation of fraudulent "conventional wisdom" emanating from the GOP – Bonini and D'Avanzo faced a similar "conservative" (Berlusconi) friendly media in Italy. Here, for example, is a passage from their book that provides a small example of the media landscape they were dealing with (emphasis mine):
[Then-SISMI chief Nicolo] Pollari's reconstruction of events surrounding the phony dossier had already been proposed in the Italian Press when we spoke with him – by an investigative piece in Libero and in a Panorama column – where it was amply "documented" by anonymous SISMI sources. In this version of events, SISMI knew nothing. Even though, smack in the middle of this intrigue, we find a SISMI colonel, a SISMI informant, and a SISMI collaborator ("until 1999"), all of them hovering like bees around a flower – the Nigerien embassy in Rome – that SISMI had been observing for years. Is it possible, despite all this, that SISMI knew nothing, noticed nothing, saw nothing, heard nothing? [page 25]
I like how Bonini and D'Avanzo politely refer to the "investigative" pieces in Libero. After all, they were the first to reveal, if I remember correctly, how Berlusconi and SISMI, just like Berlusconi's friend George W. Bush, had perfected the art of "buying" conservative "journalists". As I wrote in July 2006:
Close followers of the Nigergate saga may remember this article (link to Free Republic translation of the article, emphasis mine throughout this post):
Italy blames France for Niger uranium claim
Libero | 08/09/2004 | Renato FarinaRenato Farina is a deputy editor at a small right-wing newspaper in Italy called Libero. The article above was one of the several downright misleading pieces put out by some of the right-wing Italian press to deflect attention away from the role of the Italian intelligence agency SISMI in the creation and mainstreaming of the Niger forgeries (here's another one of Farina's articles translated at the Free Repubic).
…
As I mentioned in my post yesterday there have been major developments in Italy this past week revealing SISMI's complicity, with the CIA, in the kidnapping/rendition of radical cleric Abu Omar. These developments prove beyond any doubt that SISMI's long-standing denials on reports of their complicity were completely false (no surprise there). But, as importantly, Laura Rozen points out:I can understand just enough of this to see that Repubblica's Giuseppe d'Avanzo makes a case that Sismi under Pollari has become something like a criminal enterprise…
…
What intrigues me is the evidence d'Avanzo lays out here that Libero's Renato Farina, Sismi code-name Betulla — "birch tree" — was wittingly used as part of a full fledged Sismi disinformation operation, complete with a secret Sismi rented facility at Rome's 230 via Nazionale for that purpose, under the control of Sismi's number two official arrested yesterday, Marco Mancini.
…
Amazing and distracting as those details are, the larger potential implication of this arrangement is important and shouldn't be lost: the official cover story for the Italian government — one put forward by Sismi, the Berlusconi government and seemingly accepted by the Italian parliamentary services oversight committee — that the Niger forgeries middleman, ex Sismi agent Rocco Martino, was under the control and run by the French at the time of the forgeries caper, was first promoted by a "journalist" — Renato Farina — who the Milan magistrates now have wiretap evidence agreed to help Sismi put out disinformation on the Abu Omar case. The extent of Farina's alleged disinformation operations for Sismi is a matter now under investigation.There's more.
If I am reading this right, it looks like Libero deputy editor Renato Farina — Sismi codename Betulla, "birch tree" — did take about $10,000 dollars in Euro payment from Sismi. As Repubblica's Carlo Bonini goes through the bank deposit receipts to Betulla (and don't trust my translation too much), he comments, "the vice director of Libero does not do this work for free." The receipts were seized by Italy's Digos in a search earlier this week of an address at Rome's 230 via Nazionale, the mysterious apartment rented by the Sismi director's press advisor Pio Pompa for disinformation and domestic spying operations.
…
Given some of Farina's other reporting, the extent of his relationship with Sismi is fascinating.
Before I wrap up this introduction, I should also mention the excellent coverage by Bonini and D'Avanzo of the broader Italian Government "war on terror" fear-mongering that also closely matched the doings of the Bush White House in the aftermath of 9/11. A case in point is the story in their book about the false imprisonment in Italy of three Muslim immigrants, under completely trumped-up terrorism charges. This story is astounding and is eerily reminescent of the actions of the Bush administration. Bonini and D'Avanzo write:
On April 30, 2004, the First Court of Assizes absolved el-Gamal, Shalabej, and el-Zahed of the two crimes they had been charged with: international terrorism and possession of weapons and explosives with subversive intent. The court ruled that the Al Qaeda cell in Anzio had never existed ("the facts did not support it"), that the Egyptians had never played any part in it, and that they never intended to form such a group. The court also stated that the trio of fishermen "had not possessed" the Beretta pistol or the TNT – and that somebody, therefore, had snuck these items into the location where they had been found on the morning of October 4, 2002.
The 42-page decision, signed by the presiding judge of the court, Francesco Amato, and by his fellow judge Giancarlo De Cataldo, is a harsh document.
The obvious contrast between the statements of "Doctor Fausto" and those of Lieutenant Perrino on specific aspects of the affair causes us great concern…. It's unthinkable that in a locality as modest in size as Anzio, Perrino didn't know where el-Gamal lived, especially since they had tried to enlist his help on behalf of the intelligence services…. This casts a shadow over the entire reconstruction of the affair…. It seems obvious to add that although "Doctor Fausto" denied any role in the events, the arguments set forth by the accused relegate his testimony to a mere expedient, desperate and false to boot, which is further corroborated by complete testimony by Lieutenant Perrino. [pages 121-122]
I reproduced a small part of their narrative – you have to read their book to get the full story. It is as gripping as it is depressing. These events occurred in Italy but could easily have occurred in the U.S. and might still occur in the U.S. under the current administration. The Italian public lived a nightmare similar to ours over the past several years and those who want to learn more about it – and about how that nightmare became an integral part of our own – ought to read Collusion.
Let me stop here by thanking Bonini and D'Avanzo for their quest for the truth and welcoming them to the FDL Book Salon!
P.S. It is uncommon for journalists to give credit to blogs on major news stories – so I want to thank the authors for using and referring to one of my Nigergate findings in one of their La Repubblica articles on the Nigergate affair.



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Welcome Carlo, welcome Kelly. And thanks for the great introduction, eRiposte. We’re really excited to have you here today.
To commenters — as always, please stay on topic for book salon. If you want to go OT, please feel free to do so in the previous thread.
Great honor to have such distinguished reporters here at FDL.
yellow cake!
And welcome, gentlemen. I am glad we are staying on the broad topic that the Plame leak exposed a corner of–the perfidy of our government, and yours.
Besides the investigating of the Niger fraud, have Bonini and D’Avanzo investigated any of the CIA renditions as part of the “false imprisonment in Italy of three Muslim immigrants, under completely trumped-up terrorism charges.”?
Carlo and Kelly, welcome!
Good to be here. Carlo is online now too, though it is late in Rome.
Hi, I’d like to thank Carlo and Kelly for participating in this discussion concerning his book. What is your opinion for impeachment proceedings being filed against George W. Bush and Dick Cheney?
FYI, a lot of FDLers contributed so that Marcy Wheeler would have time to write her ANATOMY OF DECEIT. FOOTNOTE 15 on page 149 begins: “The most complete description of the Niger caper is in Carlo Bonini and Giuseppie d’Avanzo “Bersculoni Behind Fake Yellow Cake Dossier. […]”
Carlo,
One passage in your book caught my attention in particular. In page 25, you quote Nicolo Pollari saying that Rocco Martino didn’t know where Niger was and had no way of figuring out if the dossier was real or fake. Can you give me your take on this? I have always had a hard time believing that Martino, as crooked as he was, was so enormously stupid that he thought the world’s leading intelligence agencies would actually think his dossier was real. In other words, my tentative inference has been that he probably knew it was not the most convincing stuff but didn’t know for sure that it was completely fake. Your thoughts?
I am curious whether there are questions about the Niger uranium caper that you could not answer, even now.
eRiposte @ 10
eRiposte has also done considerable writing on the Niger forgeries, and it’s really great to have him here today writing about this.
I am honored to be in your company. Those who dig for and speak truth are few and far between.
But, you are in the right place , right now!
dakine01 @ 5
Yes we did.
Besides the Abu Omar rendition, we report in the book the story of three Egyptian fishermen, arrested as “suicide bombers” (allegedly, they wanted to bomb the American WW II cemetery in Nettuno). They were freed two years with no explanation whatsoever.
Rocco was not the spymaster in the game. He was used by Sismi and let down once Sismi realised that the story had gone too far.
I was hoping eRiposte would host this discussion. Thanks for that wonderful opening summary of some of the potent issues in play, here, eR.
This is a very important book and, if its closing bombshell is shown to be accurate, will turn the public debate about our actions with regard to Iraq on its head. [With regard to the circumstantial evidence that the Iraqi National Congress’s “competitive Iraq intelligence” operation was being (knowingly) run by Iran’s intelligence agency, through an Iranian agent working for Chalabi (himself a friend of Iran). That’s what our “boys” like James Woolsey and Paul Wolfowitz and Scooter Libby’s sister’s husband at The Rendon Group are playing at, with our treasury and our volunteer Armed Forces.]
The wholesale American creation of the Iraqi National Congress was apparently George “Poppy” Bush’s alternative to continuing on to Baghdad in the first Gulf War. He authorized funding for it right after the first war ended, and the Rand Corporation received the money from Congress and proceeded to create Chalabi and the INC as a way to “get” Hussein (at least on the surface). We may never have gone into Iraq if that outfit and its agents hadn’t had a ten-year head start on their propaganda and secret Iranian agenda, courtesy of the American taxpayer.
And the French intelligence agency (the DGSE) has obviously been top-notch from the get-go with regard to the yellowcake myths. In return for their valuable assistance to this country and the world, France received nothing but public condemnation and contempt from our warmongering President and his sycophants. Months after Joe Wilson’s February, 2002 trip to Niger, the CIA was still trying to verify the report he debunked; in early summer, 2002 the CIA sent an urgent request to France’s DGSE about the Niger story. DGSE spent the summer completely debunking it yet again, and can attest that at that time (late June, 2002) the CIA had in its possession at least three complete actual documents of the Niger forgeries (because they shared them with the DGSE at that time). The gist of the DGSE report concerning Niger and Africa and Uranium as of August, 2002:
Carlo @ 16
Do you believe then that Rocco probably was not aware of how bogus his own dossier was?
Jane Hamsher @ 13
Couldn’t agree more. Thanks eRiposte.
Carlo (and eRiposte) — what questions do you believe that a Congressional investigation in the US could be helpful in answering?
A question to the Italian journalists:
Did Berlusconi believe this would never come to the public’s attention?
Did Berlusconi attempt voter fraud to stay in power?
Do you find it rather ‘incredible’ that legal action is being taken by the new government in this matter?
Rocco was fully aware that the documents which he set up were bogus. But it was not him who controlled the exchange of informations with other Intelligence agencies. For sure, it was not him, but his handlers at Sismi who shared with American and British intelligence the content of the documents.
1. Have you discovered who forged the Niger documents?
2. Have you confirmed whether the actual purported “Agreement” document ever existed at all? or have you confirmed that, in fact, it never existed?
3. Is there any reason to suspect the documents might have been forged at 230 via Nazionale? Or, on the contrary, is there good reason to rule out that possibility?
There are 2 key aspects of this story which are of even greater interest to me. Alain Chouet has told you categorically that he got 2-3 documents from the CIA in summer 2002 which were identical to some documents in Martino’s dossier. I have not seen any independent confirmation yet on this side of the Atlantic that the CIA had, in fact, a copy of some of the Martino documents in summer 2002. So,
1. Have you been able to verify this specific aspect of Chouet’s story with intelligence officials in the US?
2. Which specific division of the CIA did Alain Chouet deal with? Was it CIA Department of Operations? Was it the CIA Near East and South Asia office? Was it some other division?
I would greatly appreciate your clarification on these two points!
Is there any connection to “Operation Gladio”? If so, what would that be?
During your investigations, did you find any evidence that current or former CIA people or other neocons, such as Michael Ladeen or Larry Franklin might have been involved somehow with the origination of the Niger documents?
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 21
1. I don’t know what Berlusconi thought at the time. What I know is that when we broke out the story he kept trying to cover-up the role played by Sismi in the scam.
2.He accused the center-left coalition of vote fraud, calling for immediate new elections.
3. To say the truth, my perspective is that the new Italian government will not take any legal action
The last sentence of my comment @ 17 should have read: The gist of the [French] DGSE report concerning Niger and Africa and Uranium as of August, 2002: “The American information [supplied to the Americans by the Italian SISME intelligence agency] on the uranium is complete bullshit.”
Hello and welcome.
1. Why were the original forgeries so badly done?
2. Have you figured out Michael Ledeen’s role?
LS @ 25
No it is not.
Gentlemen — congratulations on a great example of investigative journalism. And thanks to eRiposte for a terrific introduction.
I’m interested in how much of the collusion you’ve been able to establish between Bush officials and SISMI in the creation of the phony Niger documents — where does that investigation stand?
Carlo @ 27
My misunderstanding. I thought there had been legal charges filed in this matter. Thank you for the clarification.
eCAHNomics @ 29
eRiposte @ 24
1. I do agree that this is a crucial point. Unfortunately, we didn’t have any confirmation on this specific point. On the contrary, we know that Cia kept saying that what it shared with Dgse were only the content of the documents, not the documents themselves.
2. As far as we know, Chouet shared the Niger information with the Cia station chief in Paris.
My question relates to the original January, 2001 burglary of the Niger Embassy in Rome.
It appears from the book’s opening that the only real account we have about that event comes from the obviously complicit SISME intelligence agency. Thus, I wonder, as I think others have noted here, where we go next to further investigate that. Is the public prosecutor in Rome still pursuing that investigation? And what purpose/role, if any, did that false dossier play before 9/11/01? Do we know of the documents (or their contents) surfacing anywhere outside of Italy before late September, 2001, when SISME cleaned them up a little, and started to selectively distribute them to the Americans and the British, etc.?
Carlo, take us into the small faction within Sismi that set the forgeries in motion including Nucera, via Rocco Martino and La Signora. What was that faction’s original purpose? What was its motive? Was their an original purpose to the forgeries that was unrelated to the anti-Iraq propaganda they later took on?
pow wow @ 17
Thank you
I’d like to echo eCAHNomics question:
2. Have you figured out Michael Ledeen’s role?
I’ve been reading about him in Joe Conason’s book
“It Could Happen Here” and I’m really curious what you know about his involvement.
My pleasure, Mr. Bonini. Thank you and your co-author, Mr. D’Avanzo.
Slightly OT — or maybe not . . .
In his presentation at the Conference on World Affairs, Joe Wilson gave major props to Marcy Wheeler, Jane Hamsher, Firedoglake, and TheLeftCoaster — for your excellent work on the NigerGate and Valerie Plame stories.
I have two copies of the CD (two discs) — one for Marcy, and one for Jane. They can be purchased for $6 each at http://www.tapesagain.com.
Jeff @ 23
1. We don’t know for sure who materially did it. We do know for sure that an important role was played by mrs. Laura Montini, who worked at the Niger embassy as secretary and was a mole of Sismi (in the book we call her “Signora Laura” and you’ll find her story)
2. The agreement never existed
3. As far as I know, via Nazionale 230 “safe house” was set-up by Sismi at least two years after the forged documents were set up.
What is interesting here, is that in Via Nazionale 230 were found several files showing that Sismi monitored closely the Niger story and the journalists covering it.
Carlo–any information (or speculation) on why our FBI never interviewed Rocco Martino, even though he was in this country twice after his role in the distribution of the forgeries was known?
spocko @ 37
Michael Ledeen is an important figure in the world of “competitive intelligence”, but we didn’t find any link to him in the Niger story.
SISMI captive deputy editor = birch tree
Scooter’s letter to Judy Miller = aspens
heh.
Carlo,
Are you able, in any way, to find out the actual text of what SISMI communicated to the CIA in September 2001, October 2001, February 2002 or March 2002? One of the difficulties we are facing here is that without the actual text of the communication, it is becoming hard to decipher some of the claims in the U.S. Senate report and other published reports…
Thanks.
montag @ 41
I don’t know why the Fbi couldn’t interview Rocco when he was in Us.
What buffles me is that the Fbi decided to investigate Rocco’s role in the story asking informations to Sismi, the least agency in the world that could give consistent and not misleading hints on him.
Is there a Vatican role in all this?
Thank you, gentlemen, for spending your late evening with us to tell us about your experiences in reporting on the Collusion of our governments in the run-up to the invasion of Iraq.
It is hard to imagine how you were able to find out and report on so of SISMI’s activities? For instance, we would not expect to see similar revelations about the inner workings of our CIA.
My question for you is: What was the key to pulling the whole story into the light?
eRiposte @ 44
The internal communications between Sismi and Cia are still (and I guess will be for a long time) covered by top secret classification. And I doubt that they will be ever leaked. It is interesting, by the way, that according to the Us senate report the Cia analists never found any inconsistencies in the information sent by the Italians. So we have two possibilities here:
a) The italians “cleaned” the informations knowing how badly forged the documents were.
b) The Us intelligence analists didn’t “see” in those documents what anybody could see with a simple google search.
I really appreciated the opening sentence of the book:
And with regard to Michael Ledeen’s post-9/11 meeting(s) in Rome, the book does a very good job of trying to pierce through the disinformation about the subject and purpose of the meeting(s) which even brought Donald Rumsfeld to Rome contemporaneously. The closing paragraph of the book gets to the bottom line about what went on in Rome:
In page 45 of your book you mention that as far as you could tell, no one in SISMI pointed out to Nicolo Pollari (in 2001) that the information regarding the uranium claims was fraudulent. I found this interesting given this brief passage in James Bamford’s book “A Pretext for War:
Have you heard something similar, namely, that the Italian Foreign Ministry raised objections to this uranium hoax when SISMI was pushing it up their management chain?
Carlo–another question. What’s been the reaction of the Italian public to your stories? Specifically, do they increasingly think that Berlusconi, through SISMI, deceived them, as people in the U.S. are slowly coming to the realization that Bush has done the same?
TeddySanFran @ 43
You know what? Working on Sismi captive deputy editor, the Italian police found out that he had recruited as informant another journalist, giving him the code name “Citron tree”…
pow wow @ 49
Thank you
I’m on line now, just in from northern Lazio. It’s very much a pleasure to see this event up. Above all the English translation of their superb “Il mercato della paura.”
A small quip: The Berlusconi press, il Giornale and il Foglio, wrote about a conspiracy of US left bloggers with Carlo and Giuseppe back in late 2005. It’s nice to see most of us here tonight. Otto Reich would call us unindicted co-conspirators.
Actually, Carlo did have some problems with the Brescia procura last year over the Abu Omar case. His personal PC was seized by authorities along with that of Colonello of la Stampa. The case was thrown out by the Appeals court but it appears the Brescia procura will go ahead.
In Italy we have had two events last week which do not bode well for press freedom. As Mabel Wig Shack may have alluded, there are attempts to block investigations by the center-left government. The case by the State Advocate against the Milan procura over the Abu Omar case has been admitted by the Italian Supreme Court. So the trial risks being postponed until a decision is taken.
And in the House of Deputies a bill of law was passed which gravely infringes on the rights of the press to report on ongoing legal investigations.
There are also another two potentially damaging bills up for vote. One severly limits legal “phone tapping” and in a first reading called for immediate distruction of illegal tapping and dossiers.
Another bill to “reform” the secret services had suspicious clauses that could have criminalized press investigations into secret service operations.
A question. Would the many scoops you have made over the years- most notably the Abu Omar case, the Niger forgeries, the scams of Scaramella or the Telekom Serbia Commission scandal- been possible?
Question for eRiposte: You’ve obviously done some amazing work on the Niger story on the net (and gotten some kind recognition for it). I’m curious about your thoughts on why more American news outlets didn’t cover the story earlier. I have some ideas — Carlo might have some as well. Would appreciate you perspective on this, though.
Carlo @
33
That would be very interesting–since in some reports Tenet appears to have attributed his certainty that the Niger reports were bunk to Naji al-Sabri (looking for the reference). But certainly to a French source.
Anyway, welcome to FDL–and thanks for chatting. I look forward to reading hte book.
montag @ 51
Compared to 4 years ago, when we started reporting, the general wisdom of the Italian audience has changed dramatically. Also beacuse the deception of Italian people by the Berlusconi government, through Sismi, is no more considered an “opinion” but a fact.
Carlo- thanks for the response re: Ledeen. eRiposte has also said he could find no links. Did Ledeen just cover his tracks very well? Also, I wonder if Mel Sembler was involved at some point, or just a collateral.
eRiposte @ 50
It’s true. The African directorate of the Italian foreign ministry discarded the Niger intelligence also if those offices had never had the chance to examine the forged documents.
Gentlemen, welcome and thank you for your investigative journalism. Our mainstream newspapers are compromised, so we appreciate all your work in uncovering the truth.
Would the guest care to comment, in view of the prevarications which led up to the Iraq war, on where, in your opinion, the Middle East is heading today?
Valley Girl @ 58
Mel Sembler was the Us ambassador when (October 2002) the forged documents were given to the Us embassy in Rome by Elisabetta Burba, an excellent italian reporter from “Panorama”. I don’t know if the Cia officers in Rome informed the ambassador. I do know that the meeeting at the embassy was set up by the editor in chief of “Panorama” at the time, Carlo Rossella, who was(no mistery here)a very good friend of Sembler.
Kathryn in MA @ 60
Thank you so much.
Kelly Burdick @ 55
I look forward to what eriposte has to say, but I’ll jump in here too. I think there are several explanations. Obviously, Josh Marshall and Laura Rozen were working this story and almost had it on 60 minutes–and then the Dan Rather thing hit. As to more mainstream journalists, I think the “ongoing investigation” line has worked really well to quell interest in non-Congressional investigation. And once Pat Roberts arranged to bracket the Niger forgery investigation on the SSCI, the questions abotu teh forgeries kind of fell to the wayside. I even look at Condi’s current attempts to avoid testifying under oath (where she’d have to admit she did know she was sustaining a claim that had been debunked), and no one in the media is saying, simply, “Here’s what Cond i has already admitted to.” There’s a narrative out there that has done powerful work to lull the press corps into apathy on this story.
Another thing the French intelligence agency DGSE knew by mid-2002, was the real purpose of the Iraqi contact with Niger in 1999. [This visit by an Iraqi ambassador to Niger is mentioned in the only authentic document that is included as a red herring in the fabricated Niger dossier.]
According to the then-leader of the SRS subunit of the French DGSE intelligence agency, Alain Chouet, from Page 33 of the book (emphasis added):
The fact is, France today still controls (exploits) through ownership of a mining consortium the natural resource (uranium) of its former colony Niger. In short, as Bonini and D’Avanzo put it well: “Niger is not free to sell its own uranium, because the production and distribution are controlled by foreign investors.”
Carlo, I understand that your book went to press in December 2005 in the wake of several amazing scoops in October through December 2005.
I don’t know how much has been updated in the past two years for this English edition.
One thing I am very curious about is the state of the Ionta investigation. It is the only investigation that was really conducted in Italy- and it received criticism on your part. Now by law I think an investigation cannot last more than two years, renewable every six months.
So I suppose it has been archived since December 2005. Can you tell us about the state of that investigation? Have you had access to the “decreto” justifying archiviation?
Kelly Burdick @ 55
Kelly, I can’t say that I know the answer for sure. I do think this whole case – the uranium hoax and the Valerie Plame outing that followed it – got far less airtime and coverage in the US than it deserved. Partly, the media has never been that aggressive about covering the Bush administration and I think the Senate (SSCI) report was so deeply misleading and such a nice cover-up job that many journalists just went with the superficial claims in the report. There were some notable journalists who pursued the story a little beyond that – like Tom Hamburger, Peter Wallsten and Bob Drogin (in addition to those who were also covering the story on their blogs like Josh Marshall and Laura Rozen) but for whatever reason it didn’t seem to capture their imagination. The INC fraudsters got their attention but not SISMI. Maybe the media had more contacts who could talk about the INC nonsense…who knows? Maybe they felt that their access to contacts was limited because of the whitewash FBI investigation on the forgeries…honestly, I don’t know…
That said, it’s good to see this book and the coverage by Knut Royce and Peter Eisner in their book “The Italian Letter” (BTW, Knut sends a hello to Carlo…)
Oklahoma kiddo @ 61
I’ll quote my friend and Pulitzer winner Craig Unger (author of “House of Bush, house of Saud). The Middle East is heading where it was pushed by the “greatest foreign policy catastrophe in American history”.
This web conversation is a perfect example of the global power of the internet to bridge the boundaries of nationhood and corporate media. And welcome to de Gondi from EuroTrib.
and thank you to our Italian Bernstein and Bernsteins. (There’s no longer a woodward there.)
A question to the Italian journalists:
Does the papal state play a role in collaborating with intelligence services regarding this matter? Or do they run on a ’separate track?’
Kelly Burdick @ 15
My grandfather is memorialized in Nettuno.
de Gondi @ 66
Apparently, the investigation is still formally open and Ionta interviewed Chouet in France (where he confirmed what he told us). But, as far as I know, the archiviation will be the conclusion.
The archiviation order is normally secret to the people not directly involved in the invstigation. I hope to figure out soon or later what is about…
Thank you Carlo, and Giuseppe, and Kelly
This is very important info.
I have question – more like a statement – and it’s just a theory – and it’s only based on a feeling, but I have a theory that the “accidental” killing of Nicolo Calipari when he was escorting Juliana Sgrena (your colleague) to the Baghdad airport was not an accident, that it was a hit carried out because of his knowledge of the Yellowcake Forgeries and the fact that he wouldn’t go along with the cover-up, and that if asked he would have told the truth of what he knew. This is just a theory
You can comment if you want, but it’s just my theory
Once again thanks for the book, guys
Carlo @ 68
Your response speaks volumes to truth and justice. Thank you
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 70
As far as I know, it doesn’t. The papal state intelligence normally rely on Italian intelligence and italian law enforcement agencies.
emptywheel, I think the “ongoing investigation” ruse has worked, not necessarily to quell journalistic pursuit, but to justify non-pursuit.
Thankfully, 11/7 changed everything.
–
Thanks to all for this wonderful discussion. For someone who knows this is important and yet is unclear on the minute details, our host, guests, and erudite commenters have made this issue remarkably accessible. Thank you very much. Off to order this book now!
john in sacramento @ 73
I don’t think so
ccmask @ 71
You have to be proud of him. As well as who tried to sell to America three innocents as “sucide bombers” has to be ashamed
What were the most serious obstacles to reporting this story, and has that increased because of the Plame case in the US?
de Gondi @ 66 – There’s an Epilogue which records the Scooter Libby trial verdict, and an update on the fate of actors like Pollari since 2005. And then in an Appendix, a bit of icing on the cake: copies of Defense Exhibits #439, 64, and 71 from the Libby trial [two CIA documents and the State Department’s INR memo].
pow wow:
I am reading Joe Wilson’s book now, where he corroborates this with colorful background based on his Niger experiences.
emptywheel @ 64
I think Marcy is right on this aspect. That’s partly what I was trying to say but perhaps didn’t make it as clear as she did. By pretending that there is an “ongoing investigation”, the Bush admin removed the opportunity for many beltway journalists to get “stories” through Bush admin contacts and made it unlikely they would spend much time on it because they probably don’t have a lot of deep, knowledgeable and no-spin contacts deep in the intelligence community who would be willing to tell them the truth about what really happened. These stories require either deep contacts within the intelligence community or the patience to separate spin from fact in voluminous Government reports (including read tons of footnotes) or both. I’m not sure how many journalists today have the interest or time to do the latter. I can tell you the amount of my (limited) free time that I’ve devoted to trying to understand this story and piece it together without using any intel contacts – it’s considerable.
There is a book by American reporters called The Italian Letter that covers this subject from the American book. Did you and Eisner/Royce share information while writing your respective books?
Carlo, thank you for spending some time at FDL! I was wondering if anyone from Waxman’s staff/committee, approached you for testimony, as to Rice’s role in the infamous ‘16 words’ in the SOU? Also, did the EU approach you for testimony when they were mulling the Rendition/Overflight issues?
A very general question- Carlo- do you have a take on the broad attitude from Italians as to how they view “America” and the Bush regime vs. individual Americans? When I was in Italy 3 years ago, Pace banners were every where. I had feared I would need to wear a T-shirt saying “I loathe Bush”, but people were kind and warm and gracious.
pow wow @ 80
Thanks very much.
Two questions:
1) Do you have any information as to what took place between Pollari and US Deputy National Security Advisor when they met just before the release of the British White Paper in October 2002? This was just on the eve of the Republica’s turning over the Second batch of forgeries to the US Embassy.
2) Why did the forgers use documents from 1998 as templates for the transactions? Could it be that there is some Italian link to a Nigerien Supreme Courts case or other issue that would require these documents to be in the Niger Embassy in Rome? Perhaps an Italian who avoided prosecution in Niger that required Italian Supreme Court records on hand?
I believe that there was an individual named Santini who was involved in some illegal acts in that period. Maybe he, or someone else under a cloud, has ties to SISMI?
This isn’t that document, but there are others that relate to him.
http://droit.francophonie.org/…..ionId=1173
Crazy Horse @ 79
There were many obstacles. To say it in a word, the main one was that for a long time nobody seemed to care about this story. Then, the firestorm around the Plame case. It helped a lot. And I begun seeing the light at the end of the tunnel…
p.lukasiak @ 83
Io do know Eisner and Royce. We met the first time in Rome while they were researching for the book. They are excellent and brave reporters and both became good friends.
Carlo @ 88
I trust Joe and Valerie have taken note of your comment.
It did give me pause to realize the long reach of police power (including through the military) in Italy, in reading about the three Egyptian men and others in the book. And I wondered if that state of Italian control over the populace isn’t the model for much of what the Bush Mob has done since 9/11.
I salute Greg Thielmann (formerly of the State Department’s INR unit under Bolton) for his very helpful insights and on-the record interview(s) with the authors for this book.
Having sadly missed most of the discussion (astonishing traffic problem in Chicago today) I just wanted to say thank you so much to Carlo and Kelly for participating with us here today.
Folks really need to read Collusion – I just finished it on Friday – and the information about the patterns of faked intelligence and arrests of innocent muslims is such an important story and a warning to all of us.
CTuttle @ 84
I had the chance to be in contact with Waxman’s staff since 2004 and I interwied Waxman last year on the Niger affair. But I was never requested to testify.
I testified before the Eu committion on the Abu Omar case last september in Strasbourg.
cinnamonape @ 87
That NSA Deputy was, of course, Steven Hadley – who kept insisting that reference to the British White Paper’s conclusion that they had documentation of Iraqi efforts to obtain “African yellowcake” be allowed into Bush’s speeches…
despite Tenet’s efforts to keep that statement out of the public arena.
Siun @ 92
Thank you
Carlo,
Do you see the likelihood of additional progress or developments on the Nigergate case in Italy? Any chance that some of the confiscated documents from SISMI will come to light in the future?
cinnamonape @ 94
1. Unfortunately I was not there and no one, among the people present, accepted to talk. All the National security council had to say was that “it was a routine talk”.
I can only say that, normally, the director of Sismi doesn’t cross the Ocean bringing to Washington the head of his counterproliferation unit for a “routine talk”.
Siun @
92
It’s been an amazing discussion. We really appreciate the time you’ve taken to be here, Carlo, I know it’s late in Italy. Very much appreciated.
How would the folks in your country treat a visit from Bush?
Mahalo, Carlo, for responding! In your opinion, was Waxman responsive? I have severe reservations as to the EU’s response, but what the heck, I live in the middle of the Pacific! What are your feelings to EU’s handling/response to the sordid affair(rendition)?
eRiposte @ 96
I cannot rule it out. Again, it dipends on how and if the story is going to become an issue in the Us political agenda.
This discussion is quite important.
One reads about the ‘yellowcake forgery’ and then reads about ‘Italian intelligence’ and the story becomes a bit of blur of factual revelations. The facts of the story are like a spy novel and yet point out that ‘they’(the warmongers and their allies) cannot simply do ‘whatever they like’ without consequences.
Information is power!
Good investigating and reporting skills at work here!!!
Jane Hamsher @ 98
Almost 1 in the morning, but the night is warm and pleasent here in Rome and I am happy to be with you.
I was struck in the book by how the manipulation of intelligence mirrors the methods used to manipulate the media – if you plant a false story enough places, you then claim it’s authenticity – see, everyone is saying this!
I wonder if Berlusconi and Cheney are buddies?
Almost 1 in the morning, but the night is warm and pleasent here in Rome and I am happy to be with you.
——————
this is off-topic but you do realize how many imaginations you have stirred with those words?
Carlo- thank you for your many responses on this thread. What stories are you focused on now? If you care to say? Also, do you read blogs from the US on a regular basis? Again, if you care to answer.
Carlo – I hope that you will come back as you uncover more stories and share them with us. We need to build networks across national boundaries to bring these facts to light.
CTuttle @ 100
Waxman was indeed responsive. Actually, I found that he was among the few in the past Congress who never abandoned the story.
On the Eu response, the discussion could take my whole night. What I can tell you is that, above all, the Eu Parliament has to be recognised for its effort not to ignore the dark side of the war on terror. It was not easy, considering that most of the western european governments were fully involved in the rendition practise.
Carlo,
Thanks for taking the time. It has been a pleasure.
I hope I will get an opportunity to correspond with you sometime and perhaps even meet some day. Do let me know if you and Giuseppe are ever in the U.S.!
Thanks!
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 105
p.s. echo that!
pow wow @ 91
Fortunately, it’s not all that bad since sheer greed and incompetence are prime motors in Italian intrigue.
Pollari’s Sismi comes off as one of the worst tenures since the P2’s Musumeci ran the company through a haze of Johnny Walker in the late 70’s. I have the impression the manouvers by the center-left government are to contain scandals that may overshadow the Abu Omar case- such as the Telecom-Sismi scandal.
Arrests were orchestrated to fill the headlines with fear-mongering titles and every petty informant seized the oportunity to fabricate charges. A sensational case was the Milan subway bombing case which was thrown out by investigators just last month. It turned out to be totally fabricated by a Sismi informant to get even with another muslem.
The whole fear market Pollari ran along with Berlusconi’s complacent press was built on malicious and shoddy charges.
Fortunately there is the much deprecated judiciary branch that looks into this garbage and meticulously debunks it. And it’s no small wonder the judiciary branch is systematically insulted by these harbingers of Islamic armeggadon.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 105
Glad if I did. Thank you
What was Berlusconi promised for his White House cooperation?
Siun, Oceans, as well!!!
PLovering @ 113
Beside saying that Sismi had done nothing, Berlusconi never answered to a single question on the Niger story.
Thank you for an insightful discussion everyone.
I’ve had the pleasure of visiting Italy twice since 9/11. The Italians I have spoken with over meals all despised Berlusconi as we do Bush/Cheney.
Someday I want to live in Italy for six months.
Gentlemen
Thank you.
Carlo and Kelly,
I want to thank you for your work. I hope that eventually we’ll get to the bottom as to why these documents were not roundly condemned by those within the Intelligence establish immediately…
and that the repeated assertions of the British that they had independent documentation was also not disputed by SISMI.
I also applaud the work of the European Union, and the International Atomic Energy Commission for not dropping the ball on this one.
Here in Deutschland, it’s also 1AM, and the more than sliver moon is beautiful… though it can’t be as beautiful as in Roma. Thank you so much for paticipating (late nite) in an FDL discussion, and thank you more for your diligent work against the odds.
Valley Girl @ 106
Io do read blogs from Us. About my stories, my personal mantra is: not to talk about them before they’re running in the press
I’m extremely pleased with Waxman! So the old guard impaired the investigation, and, the new guard(former soviet bloc, -Poland), tried real reform and/or oversight on the renditions? Ironic, No?
Just a short one from your resident Italian lurker (who is not as good at staying up late on Sundays) to thank two fellows citizen that make me proud of being born in my country..
Keep up the incredible work and please do not let anyone (neither from the left nor the right) shut you up: we want the truth !
I will read the thread tomorrow.. now I am falling aspleep as I type …
In altre parole grazie di esistere !!!
Siun @ 104
I think is never a matter of individuals. I think is a matter of knowledge. Democracy is made of knowledge. Knwoledge and truth were the first casualties after 9/11. Not only in Us.
Kimba1970 @ 122
Grazie a te. Buonanotte e Buona fortuna(Goodnight and god luck)
And unmade by ignorance.
Thank you so much for coming here today. I will be buying your book soon. eRiposte thank you for hosting.
lolo
“Iraqi Documents on Israel Surface on a Cultural Hunt (Yahoo News)
Wed May 7, 8:59 AM ET
By JUDITH MILLER The New York Times
BAGHDAD, Iraq (news – web sites), May 6 What began today as a hunt for an ancient Jewish text at secret police headquarters here wound up unearthing a trove of Iraqi intelligence documents and maps relating to Israel as well as offers of sales of uranium and other nuclear material to Iraq.”
What about this – did any of MET Alpha ever see these documents, and if so, how did they get there?
Carlo @ 120
I suspected that would be the case! I have so much enjoyed this discussion. It is not often that one gets the opportunity to speak online across the time zones with someone who has done such important work. Thank you for your time. I find that a perspective from outside the US is so important. Personally, I would love it if you would return for a more informal chat sometime, so that all of us who have traveled to your country could compare notes and perspectives as to world views and experience. But, of course, that is up to “the powers that be”.
TeddySanFran @
125
A noble command of the english language. :)
Glad to know that, de Gondi @ 111. Pollari’s SISMI and its sibling police authorities under Berlusconi do sound very similar to the Bush administration’s current Justice Department and DOJ Office of Legal Counsel’s non-prosecutions of supposedly threatening Arabs who we – through our CIA and DoD – have scooped up from all over the world on flimsy-at-best “charges.” Unspecified charges that Alberto Gonzales and Dick Cheney et al know will never pass judicial review in the U.S. The problem here is getting them in front of the judiciary to prove that point.
More power and wisdom to the Italian judiciary branch, and to the new government in Italy. With reporters like Carlo Bonini and Giuseppe D’Avanzo on their side, they’ve got more than a fighting chance to succeed at vanquishing the underlying racism and fearmongering that the world has been subjected to since 9/11.
al Maliki ordering a halt to the building of the wall in Baghdad:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04…..nd.html?hp
I am signing off and I want to thank everybody. Sorry for not being able to answer to all of you.
Next time.
Ciao
goodbye, thank you!
Goodbye, thank you!
Thanks so much!
Bye Carlo!
Ciao Carlo and Kelly. Thanks to you and to eRiposte for a wonderful Book Salon from the whole Firedoglake team!
new thread
Buananotte to you, Carlo. Many, many thanks for your “basic caution” when interviewing and assessing government sources, and in looking past their misleading spin. We are indebted to those such as you who pursue the truth. Be well.
TeddySanFran >
Similar thoughts came to my mind. Probably worth looking into deeper. Might reveal other interesting “connections”.
“There is no such thing as inaccuracy in a photograph. All photographs are accurate. None of them is the truth.” – Richard Avedon
Previous FDL Book Salon author Joe Conason provides his take on the Gonzales Hearing:
I like the idea of a special prosecutor here. However, the mandate needs to be broad, not like the confining hedge they built around Fitzgerald.
Bob in HI
Although I missed this live, I want to thank you all here immensely for this wonderful post, Book Salon, and thread…amazing. Thank you to eRiposte, FDL (Jane,Christy, Pach, TRex, and anyone else I may have left out),and especially Mr. Bonini and Ms. Burdick. Thank you all for your hard work and your sharing it with us all. Can’t wait to buy and read the book!
The Niger documents forgery story is THE story of the decade and yet most in the public don’t know much about it.
I feel fortunate to read firedoglake and to be informed by the discussion here and to hear from these investigators. I fear for their safety as we would have for Ray Lemme and as we should for all the great journalists who reveal the NeoCons and other crooks who try to pull the wool over our eyes so they can steal with impunity.
I still wonder just how much money disappeared down that rathole known as the Iraq war.
Thanks to you all. Now, let’s get out there and dig a little deeper and make ‘em hurt in their wallets.
A bit of a timeline based on Collusion, to help clarify the known status of the Nigergate dossier intelligence fraud, using the information and sourcing cited in the book that appears the most trustworthy:
1. In 1999, the Italian military intelligence agency SISMI intercepted a 2/1/1999 telex from Niger’s Italian Ambassador in Rome to his Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Niamey, which was notifying the Nigeriens that the Iraqi ambassador to the Vatican (Wissam al-Zawahie) would be visiting Niger (on “an official mission to our country on behalf of Saddam Hussein, president of the Iraqi Republic”), and would arrive on February 3, 1999 (this is the visit the French are sure was about toxic waste storage, per comment #65 above). The telex is shared with Britian’s MI6, at a minimum, amid heightened Y2K terrorist concerns. [Between 1999 and 2000 the French were also investigating, and on alert due to, allegations that uranium had been smuggled from closed Niger mines into Libya.]
2. The Niger embassy in Rome is burglarized over New Year’s, 2001, according to a 1/2/2001 police report. Letterhead, cryptographic cipher codebooks and official seals are taken (and some perfume and a watch).
3. By summer, 2001 the CIA has heard a generic rumor (source unknown, but perhaps the 1999 telex has resurfaced, or perhaps the contents of the fraudulent Niger dossier had started to make the rounds) about Iraq seeking uranium in Africa (Niger is not specified), and asks the French intelligence agency DGSE to look into the matter. The French do so, on the ground in Africa (Mauritania and Niger), and in August, 2001 tell the CIA they find no basis for the rumor (”The results were totally negative”).
4. September 11, 2001.
5. On September 21, 2001, the then-director of SISMI (Admiral Battelli) sent a cable to the CIA regarding (presumably) either the intercepted 1999 telex or the fraudulent Nigergate dossier (which includes the 2/99 telex), claiming that the purpose of a 1999 Iraqi visit to Niger was to discuss purchasing uranium. [The quote from the book: a trip “…during which [the Iraqis] had made inquiries about the production of crude uranium in that nation’s two mines, and asked how that material might be exported.”] [Page 31]
6. October 15, 2001, Silvio Berlusconi visits Bush at the White House. The same day some “extremely interesting intelligence” is passed to the CIA by SISMI under its new director, Nicolo Pollari (on his first day on the job). The intelligence SISMI shared included that Iraq had supposedly been trying to purchase uranium in Niger since 1999, and that the sale had been authorized by the State Court of Niger in 2000. Pollari vouched for this intelligence in a memo to the CIA on October 18, 2001, in which he declares that the SISMI source is “credible.” The CIA field officer in Rome is allowed to view (but not copy) the fraudulent Niger/Iraq “draft agreement,” which makes its first confirmed appearance, and the contents are also shared by SISMI with Britian’s MI6. [This timing makes me wonder if the Nigergate dossier was concocted to build upon the 2/99 telex, post-9/11, in order to enable the Bush agenda on Iraq, and simply made use of “supplies” that had been conveniently stolen from the Niger embassy in January (for purposes such as this?).]
7. On October 18, 2001 the CIA writes up and distributes to the 16 intelligence agencies in the government a summary of the report from their field officer in Rome about the “draft agreement” provided by SISMI; included in the distribution is the State Department’s respected INR intelligence unit. Greg Thielmann, Director of the Office of Strategic, Proliferation, and Military Affairs at INR sees it there, and immediately suspects it [”No matter how you looked at it, the story didn’t hold up”]. [Page 57] INR asked the CIA for more information, and preferably the actual documents. For weeks the CIA kept saying that they were trying to obtain more information, without success (but asserted that Italian intelligence was “certain” of this information, as though that was independent confirmation). The CIA tasks its people in Niger to follow-up on the ground.
8. On November 20, 2001, the CIA receives word back from its agents in Niger. In a cable from the American embassy in Niger they state: “The French-led mining consortium excludes any possibility that Niger would be able to divert to Iraq some three thousand tons of uranium produced in its two mines.” [Page 56]
9. Twice more SISMI transmitted contents of the fraudulent Nigergate dossier to the CIA. In February 5, 2002, the Directorate of Operations wrote up a second intelligence report on this matter, this time apparently based on the “verbatim text” (which would have been in French) of the accord, but not yet on the actual documents. A third and final DO CIA report was issued on March 25, 2002, a couple of weeks after Joe Wilson’ s mission to Niger (and presumably its written debriefing report) had been completed.
10. On February 12, 2002 the Defense Intelligence Agency drew up a report on the purported agreement, presumably largely based upon the CIA’s October and February reporting. When briefed on this by his CIA briefer, Dick Cheney asked the CIA for more information. CIA’s WINPAC replied: “The information on the alleged uranium contract between Iraq and Niger comes exclusively from a foreign government service report that lacks crucial details, and we are working to clarify the information and to determine whether it can be corroborated.”
11. On March 1, 2002 the INR’s African desk drafted an unusual memorandum (in lieu of verbal notification), with Thielmann’s approval and signature, that was passed along to Colin Powell. The memo “noted that the information gathered by the CIA was inconsistent. That the story of the uranium sale was false. That a whole bunch of things that had been sent to us were bogus.” [Page 63]
12. Joe Wilson traveled to Niger on February 26, 2002 and reported back to the CIA on March 4, 2002 that no evidence of an agreement or sale of uranium to Iraq existed. The CIA asked the French DGSE in late spring/early summer, 2002 to investigate the same information Wilson investigated in March. Perhaps receipt (per DGSE) of three of the actual documents (from SISMI or ?) triggered the new CIA request to the French? After “exhaustive research on the ground” the French DGSE tells the CIA Station Chief in Paris in August, 2002 that the information is groundless. An anonymous high U.S. official tells the authors that “At the time [8/2002], I recall, Alain Chouet’s report completely contradicted our understanding of that situation.” [Page 37]
13. On September 9, 2002 SISMI Director Pollari and several SISMI division heads, including the head of the WMD non-proliferation unit, met at the White House with NSAdvisor Condoleeza Rice and Deputy NSA Stephen Hadley (who has “no memory” of what transpired). [Is this where a decision was made to use the British as a “cut-out” for the fraudulent SISMI intelligence?]
14. On September 24, 2002 Britian had obtained the actual documents of the dossier, presumably, and issued their report asserting that Baghdad “ha[d] sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa, despite having no active civil nuclear power programme that could require it.” [Page 71] Greg Thielmann blames George Tenet for concealing everything that disproved the story, until finally the British “confirmed” it as a second source with the Italians. And the selling of the war of choice was on…
15. Thanks to Italian journalist Elisabetta Burba (and her contacts with Rocco Martino), a (second) set of the fraudulent Nigergate documents was (probably quite unexpectedly) forwarded to the State Department through the CIA at the Embassy in Rome, on October 15, 2002. Although the IAEA debunked the Nigergate dossier as inauthentic on March 7, 2003, the public did not obtain access to it until July, 2003, when the Italian newspaper La Repubblica obtained and published the documents. Whoever created the original fraudulent Nigergate dossier, and whenever it was created, it was apparently “improved upon” by SISMI before they (and their “helpers”) started slowly and deliberately leaking its contents to the CIA and MI6 in late 2001. [George Tenet testified to the Senate Intelligence Committee in July, 2003: “…until February, 2003, Langley had never seen the fake Niger documents, whose existence we learned about from the Italian secret services in late 2001.” Page 104]
16. And a final point for emphasis from a French government official [Page 37]:
Correction of two errors I made: [Modnote: hope these have been repaired to your satisfaction.]
Comment #17:
Comment #144, Paragraph 7:
Note that events between 3/25/2002 and 9/24/2002 in the Collusion-derived timeline above are completely omitted (not redacted, just not included) from the CIA’s April 3, 2003 32-paragraph background memo to the House Intelligence Committee about the “Purported Iraqi Attempt to get Uranium from Niger.” [Defense Exhibit #64] Thus the very important French DGSE intelligence agency debunking of the information from August, 2002 is not mentioned at all in the report to Congress. And yet a waffling French Ministry of Foreign Affairs response in 11/2002 (”Richier did not provide a direct response”) about Iraq and uranium is cited at length in Paragraph 14 of the CIA memo. This despite the fact that, as Alain Chouet makes clear in his comments for the book, the DGSE (in the French Ministry of Defense) has a sort of operational firewall between itself and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, as the CIA must have known. [Chouet: “Our Foreign Ministry has no idea what DGSE is doing at any given time. That’s the rule. It’s a common practice, for other intelligence agencies as well as ours.”] It certainly sounds as though Richier of MFA hadn’t been in close communication with Chouet of MoD on this matter, based on the nebulous comments Richier made (according to the CIA) at an 11/22/2002 meeting at the INR bureau of the State Department.
The CIA basically admits in its 4/2003 memo that it didn’t proceed to determine whether the SISMI Niger dossier it first received intelligence about on October 15, 2001 was a forgery until directly prodded about the documents by the IAEI on January 6, 2003 and then by the question of forgeries being directly raised to the CIA by the INR in response on 1/12 and 1/13/2003, in spite of all the beating of war drums during 2002. George Tenet, among others, has an awful lot to answer for.
I have read through the post and responses and one question ( I could have missed it( is. WHO IN THE HELL ASKED FOR THE FALSE NIGER DOCUMENTS IN THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION? FEITH? LEDEEN? WHO?
Sounds as if you are explaining the process of how they came to be. But again WHO WHO WHO asked for them to be created?
Micheal Ledeen’f first encounters with SISMI go way to when he was working on his I believe PHD in the Italian Fascist library. I don’t believe for one minute that he was exempt from creating or asking for these false documents.
I was shocked when the U.S. MSM basically ignored Iaea El Baradei in early March of 2003 came out and told the world that the Niger documents were absolutely false. THE MSM BARELY HIS ANNOUNCEMENT!
Sismi was ordered/ asked to come up with these documents…WHO WHO WHO?
Cheney, Wolfowitz, Feith, Ledeen WHO WHO WHO ORDERED THEM?
While those who created and dessiminated the false documents should be held accountable.
THOSE INDIVIDUALS WHO ORDERED THEM ARE THE ONES THAT HAVE EVEN MORE IRAQI BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS. THEY DON’T SEEM TO CARE! WE NEED TO!
Discover the truth! Against lies told by governments, we need independent investigations from journalists and scientists, like Zero – Investigation on 9/11. Check it out!