While I agree with Atrios that media paternalism can be an irritating and patronizing tic, I'm not sure that a decision not to air the video of the Virginia Tech shooter so soon after the killings would have fallen into that category. It's always a judgment call as to what is and isn't appropriate but a line seems to be drawn at the point where the high speed chase stops and the guy blows his head off. Watching the video of the shooter played wall-to-wall on MSNBC so quickly after the incident struck me as awfully close to that, and I can imagine that people in the community trying to process their grief probably weren't helped by it. If it has news value — and as Atrios noted, the news value NBC claims it has seem dubious — it would still have that same value several weeks from now and presented in a more analytical context, though it would not be nearly the ratings bonanza.
And as for this — well, it argues that our friends at the Corner just grow dumber and dumberer. There is in fact no inconsistency between making a movie critical of the media's unhealthy obsession with mass murderers, and then being critical of the media when they actually, you know, do just that. It's been something I've written about for quite some time, I've long referred to the bath that cable news took in 9/11 as wingnut porn, and I think the irresponsible, sensation-driven nature pitched to emotional 10 year-olds at the time did much to whip the country into a bloodlust that George Bush and the neocons found easy to exploit. The irresposibility of the present moment probably won't have such tragic consequences, but there are nonetheless important stories — like the SCOTUS abortion decision or Gonzales's testimony — that won't be covered because CNN put a hundred grief pimps on the ground in Virginia (according to a Guardian UK journalist I spoke with yesterday). We may not as a media culture be capable of better at the moment, but it is something we should aspire to.
I won't even start to discuss the difference between fiction and reality, which actually involves real people and real consequences, because I think the wingnut permanent state of denial on that front is rather impenetrable — living as hey do in a world where an aging flabby white perv like John Derbyshire is fancied a superhero.
Byron York: big hair, little mind.
Update: For all the reasons Roy explains here, this does not mean I agree with the wingnuts about the Cho video. They have another agenda entirely. (h/t Dover Bitch)
Related posts:
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- Sure, we’re losing money but we make up for it in volume
- FreedomWorks Makes Shit Up, Michelle Malkin Uncritically Repeats It, Wingnuts Uncritically Link to Malkin — Then Blame Media
- Elected Republicans Blaming Limbaugh and Beck for GOP’s Woes
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Jane!
Arianna has been as bad as NBC IMO.
I was kind of pleased the CBC decided not to air the video.
if somebody killed my kid I doubt I’d like to turn on the tv and see him turned into a frickin’ rock star
who was the French director who made a film which ‘reversed’ normal reactions to a sniper who gunned down innocents?
he was found innocent. the judge shook his hand.
can’t recall the name of the film or director.
in death, cho found his glory. pathetic as it is.
When I sit down and think about it, the way NBC handled this puts them right up there with their ex-employee, Don Imus. If the shooter had been a white Christian kid, the photos and statement would not have aired. At very least, it would have been handled differently.
IMHO, the concentration on this, to be most helpful, should be on how many young people need help dealing with emotional issues, whether those issues are longstanding or temporary.
I was appalled when NBC kept repeating the video. Once was enough — more than enough.
Since 9/11 I’ve learned to change channels or turn the TV off if I can’t deal with what’s being aired.
I was very depressed after 9/11, I think part of it was watching the planes crash over and over. It took some counseling from the lama at KTC Columbus and learning to meditate to bring me out of it.
Jane the bodies weren’t even cold yet and NBC was playing the killer posturing triumphantly.
What’s involved her is nothing more and nothing less than The Fascism of Images.
“We’ll show it to you,” the come on of all news shows. And what they want to show you is the Geek eating the heads off of live chickens.
(Perfect Double Feature: Sweet Smell of Success and Nightmare Alley)
Things are shown, but never analyzed in any way.
For that would be too “controversial” and require “balance.”
Mass murder, on the other hand, is its own explanation.
One of the things that’s constantly overlooked in the handwringing over “the big uptick in mass murder” (and the corresponding obsession with showing it over and over again) is that there’s been a big uptick in population, both in the US and worldwide.
Another thing that overlooked in The War To Keep Us Afraid And Therefore Malleable is that violent death wasn’t exactly invented in the 1960s, and it’s not confined to urban areas. Go read the books Wisconsin Death Trip and Jailhouse Stories for a gander at just how common alcoholism, suicide and murder have been even in rural areas.
Re: York
This has been another edition of Republicans Are Utterly Incapable of Comprehending Art.
Phoenix Woman @ 10
Wisconsin Death Trip…….ah, the good ol’ days…….
I am not going to watch any of the coverage. I think it is morally wrong for cable news to pimp this for ratings. CNN is reporting that someone has a weapon a the Johnson Space CTR BLDG. Here we go again. HA! and they want everyone to carry guns for protection. That’s why this is happening in the first place. Stupid people with guns
lolo
For more about how all of this reall works Go HERE
Is it too much to ask for a few days to mourn? Microsoft and NBC showed poor judgement. Or, does anyone know what that means anymore?
That exploitation was the whole point of the exercise, you know.
lolo @ 13
And we can watch “LIVE” on CNN Pipeline now!
While it is certainly newsworthy that the shooter mailed the package to NBC in the first place, the images and words in the package are not news. NBC had its scoop and could have reported on the package and their analysis of it without any risk of glorifying a deranged killer. The network had nothing to lose by witholding the images–airing them was, in my opinion, an act of sheer greed.
Hurray for Byron York for taking the bait! I was waiting for that — nice smackdown, Jane, but expecting logical consistency from Teh Haircut(s) is a stretch.
“it argues that our friends at the Corner just grow dumber and dumberer.”
I don’t think its technically possible to “grow” dumber…the corner pods are devolving further.
.
We are one blood-fucking-thirsty country. Have we always been that way? Will we always be that way? Too many questions, not enough leaders to help us sort it all out.
TeddySanFran @ 19
Can’t fool you, Teddy. Was I that obvious?
mc @
21
Ask the former residents, what’s left of them.
-GSD
yowzer @
20
A under-reported aspect of Republican disbelief in evolution is that, unlike progressives and liberals, they see so few examples of evolution around them that they cannot understand the visibility of the mechanism.
What NBC did was take the instuments of a crime, since it is fair to characterize what the killer did in sending his “multimedia” presentation to licensed spectrum was in furtherance of his crime of multiple murders, and then consciously attempt to make multiples of dollars in advertising revemues. NBC is no different than a drug dealer through its express cooperation with the killer in advancing the killer’s plan to promote his acts.
Accordingly NBC should be required to forfeit its ill gotten gains in the form of advertising revenues. The “multimedia” presentation should have been turned over to the FBI, no copies retained, just like a gun used in a murder, not reselling the murderous weapon at auction because it was used in a celebrity killing or aiding and abetting the murderer by broadcasting his “presentation”.
I’ve had it with the teevee,this nonsense tears it for me. I’ll tivo stuff(like Planet Earth,amazing series)and to hell with the rest of it. Most of it is nonsense disguised as news,mean spirit in the name of”reality”tv or”games”,or just plain stupid. I’m sick of having my senses assaulted and my intelligence insulted.
Enough.
There was some (small) news value in the videos. It filled in what he was doing between the first and the second killing sprees. It showed, for once and for all, that he was a very, very sick young man. But the full tapes, the transcripts, these are only of interest to psychiatrists and sick fans. The great bulk of it could have been withheld until the spotlight was off. We never read beyond a paragraph or two of the Arthur Bremer letters, for instance, and why would you care?
But NBC wants bucks. That’s why they do everything. If a psycho brings people to the front page, that’s what’s on the front page. And once one of our media cartels follows a story big-time, everybody else declares it a big story and puts the same story on the front page, even if they have to pay NBC for the pictures and suffer the indignity of the NBC badge on all their coverage.
The CBC, which I used to work for, does not have the profit motive. Therefore, they can use news judgment. Time to put news departments of the networks back behind the wall, too.
wow. that was freaky. where did this thread go:
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..e/#respond
I already know of several young people, teens and pre-teens, acting out what they saw on the video. Also, a 13 year old who blogs with Cassie had Cho with a gun to his head as his buddy icon for MSN messenger. NOT OK. The media should have censored itself on this one.
Remember how many young boys around the world killed themselves “playing” Saddam. I fear that this will be the same.
banal with a gun. banal with a greivance. banal with a video camera. banal with a postage stamp.
Several points about the mail package that NBC received:
First, NBC identified it prior to opening it or tampering with it as suspicious. That should have been when they notifed the FBI. Anthrax memories, anyone? So NBC tampered with the forensics.
Second, the material didn’t meet the twofold test for news: one is whether the info had wide interest – yes, and two whether the info was significant in and of itself to contribute to understanding the story – NO, it wasn’t. It was porn.
Third, the media is not a neutral presence. Its presence in and of itself affects the subjects of the story. It is intrusive, has a deleterious effect on the surviving victims, the victims’ families and the local community. Airing the perpetrator’s material has an unknown ripple effect on those same people – who I contend, are being mercilessly exploited for media ratings share and corporate shareholder profits. And then there are the disturbed people who may be “inspired” to do a copycat, based on the material.
That material should have gone straight, no detours for contamination, tampering, copying and airing, to the FBI.
TiredFed @ 28
maybe one of Jane’s poodles ate it ;)
Roy speaks for me on this issue.
Is notoriety the same thing as newsworthy?
Is there some form of shunning our culture could adapt to deny fame to people who kill our children to become famous?
N=1 @ 31
Agreed
Also, Brian Williams lied on HuffPo when he described the process:
He NEVER mentions making the copies: when, who, how, or why. Making the copies enabled NBC’s pr0n. Reporting the arrival of the package, and turning it over to the authorities, was the responsible thing to do. Making the copies cast the die.
Brian needs to tell us how THAT decision got made. Until then, his pretense of shock, horror, awfulness and transparency is bilge.
as much as I would like to comment on this issue, as my son is an engineering student at VT, I’m just wondering where the other thread went to. no biggie. my 2 cents on the NBC decision to air Cho’s materials: a social catastrophe (term used by forensic psychologist shortly after stuff was aired). lets hope it never happens again.
It was completely and utterly wrong to air Cho’s diatribe at this time. The fact that our local NBC affiliate felt it necessary to drag out our resident psychologist media whore to argue in favor of the coverage suggests to me that they knew how very wrong it was.
I also object to the continual use of the word “manifesto” being applied to the rantings of a psychotic. Manifesto implies some sort of political point, some rationalization. There was nothing rational in those tapes.
For all the handwringing about violence on teevee, I have to say that those videos were more frightening than anything I’ve seen on “The Wire” or “The Sopranos.” My friend’s 10-year-old son, who stumbled on the Cho videos when the news was on, was terrified that night. Couldn’t sleep by himself.
There was no difficult decision-making going on at NBC. What a pile of self-serving crap that line was. Good god. It was gratuitous, it was salacious and it was pornographic. And it was a ratings bonanza.
Now the next nutjob with a death wish knows what to do. Send it to ABC. And this time, videotape the whole massacre. That’ll do Cho one better. That’ll make a name for ‘im.
Kudos, NBC. You’ve given the next psycho something to shoot for, so to speak.
Idiots.
Byron had two motives, I suspect. 1. He wanted you to notice him and get a response. 2. He needed to feed those he knew would have no clue about NBK. It’s kinda sad.
Elliott @ 32
lol
Jane Hamsher @ 22
Isn’t there a Byron/Tucker mindmeld? Will Tucker take on our Jane too?
I don’t think censorship is the answer. I think rational newsreporting that eschews senstaionlism is the answer.
Are there newsworthy aspects to the press-package. Yes. Is it good reporting to have a full page banner at the top of the MSNBC website with the gunman, arms splayed, mean, hollow look flashing at you when you link the site. Nope.
-GSD
This terrible tragedy is providing a great deal of cover for Team Arbusto. Rove told his minions to inform the media that Chimpy is assembling an investigative team. This will make the Chimp into a caring and compassionate war president. Its really working out quite well for them.
The more things change, the more they remain the same…………..
When my husband was murdered in 1987 the media even then was so intrusive. They just came to the door on camera wanting “my reaction” the morning after. What the hell did they think would be my reaction? The local stations called my minister and wanted to be allowed to film INSIDE the church during the funeral. Of course they were not allowed but the fact that they asked is appalling. They were at the cemetery with zoom lens which showed us like they were 3 ft. away.
Since then, where I feel comfortable doing so, I have called a surviving family and reminded them they do NOT have to do interviews. The media make it seem like you OWE it to the deceased to honor them with an interview.
I find that I just turn off the tv after one of these tragedies. I can’t handle much violence even after nearly 20 years.
like the banal shithead who killed john lennon.
does he get a cabal show?
it’s all linked in my tinfoil mind.
keep them on ice. trot em out when you need em.
Jane!
good form.
I’m hearing today (Science Friday) there have been about thirty (four) adolescent males and roughly the same number of adult mass murderers in the US over the last thirty years.
As many as forty percent of Americans will meet the diagnosis for at least one major psychiatric illness over their lifetime.
That’s around one hundred and thirty million Americans.
Most of whom will never be severely mentally ill , and even fewer of whom will ever hurt themselves, much less anyone else.
At best, our nation has largely ignored the very severely mentally ill for thirty years.
For very good and compelling reasons, in the 60’s/70’s America opened the “mental institutions” and sent the
inmatespatients off to “community mental health”.But the community part was far too little even under Kennedy/Johnson/Carter – and has been further starved for the last thirty years.
Reagan started Federal policies that effectively persecute the mentally ill – Clinton and the “end of welfare” imploded the remaining supports.
MSM hardly bothered to look.
Then one young person trapped in psychosis commits hideous crimes, and NBC makes him news director for a day.
kraftysue @ 44
So sorry for your loss, and for the intrusion into your grief. Sounds awful.
Texas Betsy @ 29
You’re in a better position to know this than I am. (You said you teach 6th grade, right?) But I’m not surprised. Minds that young aren’t set up to critically process this kind of input. It would have been forward-thinking of M$NBC to consider the psychology instead of the payoff.
boy spelling ‘cable’ accidentally as ‘cabal’ was telling…..in a ‘reynolds wrap’ sort of way…..
hackworth @ 43
This will make the Chimp into a caring and compassionate war president.
Not. I think they shot that wad already, with Walter Reed. Along with whatever credibility they might have had with the non-wingnuts.
GSD @ 23
Cry out loud.
EvilDrPuma @ 48
During the week I work in a high school, but I teach 5th-7th grades in Hebrew school. And I am the mother of a 7th grader and on good terms with most of his friends, as well as some of Cassie’s 9th grade friends.
keyote @ 34
It is if profiting from sensationalism is more important to you than journalistic credibility or relevance to public discourse.
Sure, but the media have to be a part of it. Clearly, they are not on this bandwagon.
Now when will we be shown body bags and caskets of Americans and Iraqis?
Someone should make a movie or song about Cronkite like they did for Morrow.
It sees to me there are two issues here.
1) The less important issue is taste and sensitivity. Focussing so much attention on the killer so soon after his evil deeds is very unkind to those who were so gravely hurt by him. It can be argued fairly that they need some time to get to the point where they are not replaying their pain again and again, and seeing the killer’s face all over TV just brings back the nightmare.
2) The more important issue to me is that all of this media coverage is making a celebrity of the killer. He is getting his chance to go out, if not in a blaze of glory, at least a blaze of fame (infamy?). This can be quite an inspiration to other crazies who feel put down and left out. Yes, they too can make their mark!!
I believe that these killers should be anonymous in the mass media. Once they have been identified, perhaps their names and pictures should be broadcast a few times, so that people who knew them can come forward to the authorities to provide information. After that, their names, faces and writings should be embargoed by the mainstream media, so that these people have no fame. No one will remember their names; just their cruel deeds.
Those people who have either a legitimate professional interest in mass murderers and those who are simply voyeurs will be able to get the detailed information they want, but the vast public will not be subjected to new, evil celebrities.
This won’t stop this kind of insanity, but it might remove one of the incentives.
Why is this not big?
Cho’s sister works for the State Department:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3050788
And this is being ’scrubbed’ from history as we speak:
http://thumbsnap.com/vf/jofW2c3P.jpg
Jane! I agree with you. TeddySanFran – it was also my thought that the first thing they did was to make copies. Haven’t we all seen enough CSI to know that by opening the envelope they compromised evidence? What if someone else had mailed it, for example? Also, did anyone else note the “you can’t imagine how much we suffered having to make such are hard decision It’s hard work! please. I don’t feel sorry for you. I feel sorry for the families, victims, friends and V Tech community. I don’t feel sorry for the folks at NBC. Remember what the coach of the Rutger’s basketball team said – it’s all about the green
Texas Betsy @ 52
Okay. Definitely in a better position than me. I have two teenage nephews and one nine-year-old on GoodMrsPuma’s side, but the three nephews and a niece are all six or under. Not really old enough for this to register with them–or I hope so, anyway. I don’t remember having much contact with anything in the “adult” media at that age.
Breaking local Houston news has a gunman in building 44 at the Johnson Space Center in Clear Lake. JSC has asked other people to lock themselves in the other buildings for now.
Reports are sketchy at best right now, but part of 44 has been evacuated.
Lou Costello @ 56
what is that second image?
I am — blessedly — TV-free. But at least one of the local rags here in Boston frontpaged with an image of the shooter pointing a pistol directly at the viewer.
Violence porn.
But this is a screwed-up society, where a tasteful photo of a nude human on a front page would be literally unthinkable, and the sort of “coverage” we saw this week is only somewhat controversial.
At the risk of getting flamed, let me stick my toe in this raging pool. Photographers who cover wars, natural disasters, famines, and such are always faced with agonizing decisions-when to shoot and when to help.
Not to defend NBC’s decision, but they decided to shoot, and thought they were helping, also.
As a photographer myself, this shot represents that agonizing choice that we have and it has always haunted me (though not as much as Kevin Carter):
http://www.arab2.com/picture-w…..-child.jpg
My perspective is in the minority in part because of my own attention filters to sensationalism and because I treat a lot of psychosis in my work, but the news, with the videos in particular, was helpful for me to understand what motivated him. He appeared to be psychotic with paranoia and grandiosity. He likely was experiencing the early adulthood onset of schizophrenia.
My concern is that people come away from this tragedy with a profound misunderstanding of what happened to him. There were many victims, but he was a victim to severe mental illness. I do not apologize for him. To the extent that people can learn what can happen to a child from what appears to have been a nurturing family (two kids made it to college with a Princeton grad for a daughter), my hope is that people will attempt to better recognize and promote help for people afflicted with an unwelcome illness.
Considering the vast majority of people experience the videos differently than me and without the benefit of meaningful explanation, I think it’s counterproductive to air the videos and pictures. To his credit, Olbermann had some psychiatrists on his show that spoke clearly, albeit somberly, with an educational perspective. I appreciated that.
Next to NBC, the real story is the utter depravity of people like Derbyshire, Malkin, Styen, who are blaming the victims. Absolutely disgusting.
So yet another school in lock down this week, they’ve locked down Johnson Space center “intermediate school,” alleged gun-man inside second floor “office.” this is the how-many copycat since the VT trajedy this week? Parents told to ’stay away.” Numbing
EvilDrPuma @ 48
we had a related problem around here recently, a young kid shot himself at school. The local news made a huge deal of it, lots of talk about the kid and what drove him to it. Lots of sympathy and publicky.
THEY SHOULD KNOW BETTER, suicide can be contagious, ’specially among young kids. Fortunately, the mental health community quickly intervened and got the story off the air so there were no others.
With all the coverage in the US, why didn’t we hear this?
Not to excuse NBC, but imagine how much worse it would have been if Cho’s package had gone to Fox News.
Yeah, I was pretty disappointed on Wednesday when KO showed nothing but the shooter video on Countdown. There was other news but it barely got any attention. The still photographs are scary. If I were in the classrooms at the time of the shootings, those pictures would give me flashbacks and night terrors.
MSNBC didn’t show everything but what they did show suggests that the rest of it was even worse. In the video, the shooter comes off as rambling, incoherent and angry. He is addressing no one in particular. He is a rebel without a cause. He doesn’t look like a martyr. He just looks disturbed. I don’t think he accomplished what he strived for but neither did MSNBC. The shooter package merited about 5 minutes of time with limited commentary.
It was just a waste of prime news time and in this era of Fox Noise and the propaganda machine, we can’t afford it.
Lou Costello @ 56
Because it’s of absolutely no relevance at all. Unless you have some reason to believe this woman isn’t suffering enough because of her accidental biological relationship to a mass murderer, there’s no reason to drag her through the mud.
Boy, this nation is sure busted to all hell.
-GSD
No one at NBC made a decision to shoot – they made a decision to COPY and then to AIR. The decision wasn’t a news decision — it was a ratings and entertainment decision.
Which, entirely incidentally to NBC, allowed the families of the dead to share their loved ones’ last sight while alive. That’s pr0n. Period.
Gunman on the loose at the Johnson Space Center.
mc @ 62
I get it, and I’m not unsympathetic. It is always a judgment call and from personal experience I can say that you don’t always know how something is going to play until you put it up there. It’s 20/20 hindsight we’re engaging in now, but the decision to run it wall-to-wall the way they did was not, I think, maybe the best. It came off as porn.
I believe it was proper and good that NBC aired the materials sent to them by Cho. Among the greatest needs of those grieving is to know and understand what happened, how it happened, why it happened and to posses as much knowledge as possible. Unknowns continues to inflict pain and frequently prevent the ability to reach acceptance of what has happened. To tell the families that they should be angry and upset with NBC is to add more emotional burden and the risk of unhealthy coping . Our society seems to have become addicted to blaming and persecuting the innocent to the distraction of focusing on what is really important including how to improve things in the future in a way healthy for everyone.
EvilDrPuma @ 70
I can’t imagine what it must be like for her. Heartbreaking, really. She’s not to blame for any of this.
annx @ 64
Yes, the “feminized” and “passive” Americans, who kill each other at a rate higher than any industrialized nation on this planet. A bunch of non reactive wallflowers who never, ever resort to violence.
Logic and reason mean nothing anymore.
-GSD
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 60
It was in Wiki but that and others have been pulled:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi…..Cho101.jpg
Breaking News- MSNBC Gunman at building at Johnson Space Center in Houston barricaded
One of the local high schools in central Texas had a bomb scare this morning.
GSD @ 71
It’s end result of many years of Republic rule. There’s much work to do to fix things.
I have been working hard to get away from the media coverage of the VT shootings, and it has been a difficult thing to do.
Four years ago I went through the same thing as the family, friends and faculty of Virginia Tech are going through today. In Sept. of 2003 a student came to the school where I teach and murdered two other students during lunch hour. The local media was hout of hand. They spent nearly two weeks dedicating 50% of their air time on this tragic event. The news spent too much time going over and over and over the same details, the same clips, the same events. Seeing news trucks parked in front of the school and the anchors televising live from the scene days after the incident was like picking at a all too fresh wound. I just wanted things to go back to normal (what ever that was). As someone having seen thing on the inside, there is no need for the American public to have the details shown to them over and over and over, the media has plenty of other important stories to give equal time to.
portia.vz @ 69
The folks that were in or near those classrooms are going to have issues that go way beyond anything the videos will provoke.
That Sudan photo is amazing! Thank you.
Student Arrested Over Va. Tech Remarks
The Associated Press
Wednesday, April 18, 2007; 6:13 PM
BOULDER, Colo. — A University of Colorado student pleaded not guilty Wednesday to making comments that classmates deemed sympathetic toward the gunman blamed for killing 32 students and himself at Virginia Tech, authorities said.
During a class discussion Tuesday of Monday’s massacre at Virginia Tech, Max Karson “made comments about understanding how someone could kill 32 people,” university police Cmdr. Brad Wiesley said.
Several witnesses told investigators Karson, who turns 22 on Thursday, said he was “angry about all kinds of things from the fluorescent light bulbs to the unpainted walls, and it made him angry enough to kill people,” according to a police report. Witnesses “said they were afraid of him and afraid to come to class with him,” Wiesley said.
Karson, of Denver, was arrested Tuesday on a misdemeanor charge of interfering with staff, faculty or students of an education institution.
His father, Michael Karson, told the Camera newspaper that the comments may have been misinterpreted and questioned whether his son’s free speech rights had been violated.
“I would have hoped that state officials would know their First Amendment better than they seem to,” he said.
University spokesman Bronson Hilliard said privacy laws prevented him from releasing personal information about students.
At Oregon’s Lewis & Clark College, another student was detained by campus police Wednesday shortly before a vigil for the Virginia Tech victims when he was spotted wearing an ammunition belt. Portland police later determined that it was “a fashion accessory” made of spent ammunition, and said the man did not have a weapon. The belt was confiscated.
2007 The Associated Press
This is one of the reasons I rarely watch TV anymore. I can get what I need to stay informed on the net; I can choose what I want to see, hear, and read. Thanks to sites like Firedoglake, I don’t need to rely on MSM. Much appreciated Jane, Christy, and crew.
Can I vent? Why do all of the cable news stations have to carry non-stop live coverage of what is going on at the Johnson Space Center? How does this help anyone. It is absolutely crazy. Thank you for letting me rant.
They were helping – to raise their Neilsens.
The syllogism between the admirable work of field photojournalists is compelling, yet inaccurate.
The inaccurate premise guarantees inaccurate conclusions.
The suits who decided to copy criminal evidence (before turning it over to law enforcement) and then talked to other suits before spamming it for it a day…
are venereal warts on the face of legitimate ethical discourse.
Badwater @ 68
It’s hard to imagine it could have been worse. NBC became Fox.
The news media are not “ehlping” in any way shape or form.
Required viewing: Billy Wilder’s Ace in the Hole.
EvilDrPuma @ 70
The media has interviewed everyone back to the doctor the smacked his bottom at birth in Korea…but pay no attention to his sister down the block. WHY?
yes but what is that image of cho wearing a marine uniform?
just a paintball game with a friend?
what is the context?
Jane Hamsher @ 74
I have not seen any of the footage, but I’ve heard and read enough to know just how pornographic it is.
My cynical view of all this is that NBC knew it would be controversial-but it didn’t matter. We’re all talking about NBC now, aren’t we?
The only thing worse than bad publicity is no publicity.
I dunno. Vestigial decency?
Now this is really revelvant:
Because even the MSM have more taste and decency than do some of their viewers.
My problem is they glorified him with the front page of their website and the TV. They could have made the material available via click-through on the web, or with warnings before airing.
I went to their website and it was unavoidable. It was tragedy porn, and it provided a platform to the killer.
There were two bomb threats at Northern Virginia schools today in Woodbridge. Idiot high schoolers.
That all sounds very nice, but how exactly did repeatedly showing the guy’s fully-armed GBCW video to millions of people help the victims’ loved ones “know and understand” what happened?
JSC ‘gunman’ is reported to be white and blonde.
I don’t suppose that gunman in the NASA office building is George W, demanding a ride on a shuttle out of here?
smapdi @ 99
Oh, why do they have to focus on his race and gender, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah>
Texas Betsy @ 29
TexasBetsy- you raise a complicated matter that is important to distinguish. Children and adolescents often act out their fears and anger. They show us as opposed to telling us. To that extent, it’s expected that kids will mimic the actions without actually executing the actions. It can be a way to attempt to master the terrifying fear. This is not to say promoting this acting out is encouraged, but recognize that it can be an opportunity to talk as an adult about something that is scary and troubling for them.
At any given time, there are many children and adults who are prone to violent actions to begin with that perhaps are more likely to dicharge their some intense feelings when a national event like this occurs. But the imagery itself is not the genesis – the problems are already there and under-recognized. An argument can be made that witholding the imagery doesn’t protect those who are disturbed and might copy it, just like not talking about sex doesn’t mean it’s not going to happen. Again, I think it’s how the information is packaged – sensational playground, or parent educational.
Pat_AlexVA @ 97
there have been bomb threats on three days this week at a FLA high school that I know about.
NBC’s decision to make copies of criminal evidence before turning it over to authorities really gets under my skin. They decided, for purely profit-driven motivation, to essentially tamper with the evidence instead of doing the responsible thing. There was no way to know if Cho had any accomplices at the time NBC chose to go through the whole package. What if they inadvertently destroyed fingerprints or trace evidence? Would they have done the same had the package not been ready-to-air video?
Brian Williams has absolutely no leg to stand on with his claims of being put into a tough spot—NBC’s corporate instincts for profit put them in the position they claim is unfair.
————–
If Tucker was stupid enough to belittle himself on Dancing With The Stars, he’s stupid enough to take on Jane. Will that be the equivalent of an asskickin’ trifecta – Jon Stewart, Dancing with The Stars and Jane? Can’t wait for the coup de grace.
BTW, wasn’t it great yesterday, when Abu got blustery with Specter (AKA Sphincter on FDL) to ’show’ the Dem. Senators his toughness and Specter rammed his boot down Abu’s throat. The look on AGAG’s face was like “… I thought you’d let me win!”.
I wonder what You Tube would do if Cho had posted his video(s) there.
Now that’s funny………you are kidding right? *wink
mc @ 62
I am speechless.
Goodness. On this article, I disagree with good Ms. Hamsher. I think the “manifesto” IS news. On Monday, I learned of the mass killings. Tuesday morning, I learned that the killer was a kid, a student there. I asked myself “who is that guy? What made him do it?” The airing of the manifesto answered my questions. He was a disturbed sick person.
Now, if I were “king” of NBC, I think I would’ve told the school to notify the families that this mess will air in a few hours, and then air it well after supper-time. As to the rest of the manifesto, I’d put it unedited on the website. Generally, I favor absence of censorship…and that’s my basis for opinion.
The films are disturbing. I’ve seen them 3-4 times, and now just change channels or hit the mute button when they come on. But I favor open-ness over censorship.
The fact that Ms. Hamsher, and many here, are upset by these films only tells me that Hamsher, et al are decent caring people. Please DO change channels or put on some tunes until this winds down.
Ghostman
Lou Costello @ 107
I don’t think so.
smapdi @
99
*Well then, I am sure he has a good reason to be angry.
-GSD
*Snark
TSF @ 36
And they made the copies how? With a magic duplicator that copied the whole thing without opening the box? [/sarcasm]
I hope the legal people give them whatfor about that, because it could have been worse: he could have sent a bomb. Why do they think the police say to call them when something like this shows up?
Ghostman @ 109
You know, not every judgment call made about what to air is an act of censorship. Every piece shown (and not show) is based on choices.
Ghostman @
109
Don’t disagree with you, ghostman, and I don’t think censorship is the answer here. NBC should have the right to do what they did, I just don’t know if they should’ve done it in the way that they did.
And putting the manifesto on a website would’ve been a better solution, IMHO, for what news value it had.
Lou Costello @ 91
Maybe there’s actually some limit to how low they’ll stoop? Not the limit I’d set, but your mileage may vary.
GSD @ 111
!DING!
Ghostman @ 109,
Sure the manifesto is news. But see how Xeni Jardin at Boing Boing was able to cover the digital manifesto without actually showing any of the content.
NBC didn’t cover it as news, they turned it into a pornographic spectacle. Playing the video over and over, airing special programs dedicated to it, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised if they had special graphics and theme music made up.
when did Saddam Hussein first make contact with Cho and when did Mohammed Atta deliver his orders?
In Houston they are making a big deal out of the “police are handling this as a shots were fired as if they would do something else if the dude has a gun but didn’t fire it. geeze,what a buncha maroons.
Speaking of irritating and patronizing tics (rhymes with pricks!), the most prominent little piss-stain of a person in the Senate is at it again….
Fern @ 110
ding!
montag @ 120
Before I click, Leiberman!
raven @ 122
DING!
Badwater @
68
And NBC had no way of knowing that they didn’t, or the National Enquirer, or?
Tough call
NRA week continues- another crazy fucker with a gun—YAWN—let’s celebrate the second amendment!
I’d like to know how Cho was able to maintain his GPA at a level high enough to remain a student at VT. Being crazy and threatening doesn’t seem like a way to earn passing grades.
is at it again….
Before I click, Leiberman!
DING!
This is a good article:
man with musket spotted at civil war reanactment site.
news-choppers are on the scene
raven @ 123
my daily affirmation has been getting a bit rusty, so here we go:
my contempt for Joe Lieberman will never subside.
Of course, it’s hard for me to say I think the MSM have ever really had their priorities straight. Consider the uproar over “The Last Temptation of Christ.” A ridiculous hoopla and fabricated controversy over a film whose “sin,” as far as I could ever tell, was to depict Jesus as fully human–which I always thought was right up there with fully divine in mainstream Christian theology, but it shows all I know. By contrast, they practically trampled each other to fellate torture-pornographer Mel Gibson’s little Jesus snuff flick.
Let’s face it: ultraviolence and its glorification has been on the media whores’ agenda for a long, long time.
It’s ok for Tim Russert to embargo/censor news he gets from DC insiders, but when it comes to sensationalizing, exploiting, and hurting so many people by broadcasting the killer’s multi-media manifesto, then “journalistic principles” require MSNBC/NBC to not engage in censorship. “We’re in the NEWS business.” Just Disgusting. No shame.
Badwater @ 126
I understand some folks gave him grades just to be rid of him. (This is unconfirmed).
punaise @ 129
I wonder how Harry’s feeling these days about respecting Holy Joe more than abybody in the Senate chamber.
Come on, Harry, he’s just asking for the punishment he richly deserves.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 128
Exactly. I was hoping to get some good Gonzo is Gonzo coverage this afternoon.
raven @ 132
If you can’t confirm it, shut up. This kind of gossip is just more sensationalistic crapola.
EvilDrPuma @ 135
Oh, you are right . Everything that gets posted here is confirmed.
Yes, I am right, and you are a scurrilous rumormonger. Hope you’re proud.
NRA:
“Course we don’t mean that we should be giving guns to crazy fuckers- only sane people like us–(empties drool cup and reloads).
Turkey has plan. It includes a timetable for entry into Iraq to root out Kurdish rebels. The end of April is the plan.
Kurdish rebels responsible for thousands of deaths. Seems Turkey is saying that terrorists that seek refuge inside of a country can’t consider themselves safe.
Turkey’s right to pre-emption extends to Iraq.
-GSD
Let’s avoid insulting our fellow commenters.
GSD @ 139
Now, why does that sound familiar…?
Ghostman @
109
I agree, no censorship of the media ever. In an open society such as ours it’s not going to be pretty all the time. We have to take the good with the bad. If there is bad news I want to know about too. If not we would all be believing everything is going well in Iraq according to our top two leaders in the White House. Remember when you blame the media for covering this story the way it has that there was no shortage of willing VT students pouring out their stories speculating about the gunmen which helped drive this story.
RBG @ 140
Can we also avoid sensationalistic gossip?
marshen @ 142
I think the networks ought to self-censor.
Mae @ 87
It’s called waGtheDog.
Grades are not a measure of someone’s sanity, and it doesn’t sound like Cho went around constantly threatening everybody. So yeah, he could have done just fine, academically.
EvilDrPuma @ 143
Who draws that line?
Texas Betsy @ 144
They should, but they won’t. The FCC is
supposed to be there to police the broadcast media because they can’t be trusted to police what they put on the public’s airwaves. But we can see how well that is working.
The right to publish/broadcast anything is not the same thing as a duty to publish/broadcast everything. Obviously.
Lou Costello @ 147
The same people who draw the line at insulting commenters. As my six-year-old niece would say, “Duh!”
What would doctor Pangloss have to say about all the avenging gunmen in this best of all possible worlds?
On of the great secondary inventions of the 20th century was the remote control. That way, I don’t even have to get up and get some exercise (however minor it may be) to change the channel; I just have to click a button to do so.
I tend to watch a lot of movies. I tend to NOT watch a lot of violent movies. Maybe I’m just too old. (not really). I will watch the “play” violence of old westerns. And even some of the play violence of the Bruce Willis/Steven Seagal movies. I don’t watch horror/slasher stuff as I don’t like those. Just as I don’t watch violent TV based pr0n like NBC/MSNBC were showing. It still amazes me somewhat that watching explicit sex between a loving couple is considered far more heinous than watching someone get killed graphically and in slo-mo.
Just my $.02
rwcole @ 151
Is Doctor Pangloss an NRA member?
You can’t let the media just say anything now can ya?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMXMo3Z0qms
Bearpaw @ 149
Thank you. Was trying to figure out how to say that.
And Ann Coulter finally drips onto the tragedy exploitation.
A day late and more then a dollar short. But after the NRO’s scumslinging, Coulter’s recycled old standbys come off as pale copies of what the He-men of the Right have already said before.
Shorter Ann Coulter: Look as I shake my sagging man-boobs!
Puma- No- A gardner I believe.
new thread
Okay, everyone. It’s been kind of a rough week. Big breath. Either a nice glass of wine or a cup of licorice spice tea. Sometimes I mix them together:)
I too was offended by the photos on Huffington, so I stayed away from that site. Never saw the NBC videos. Didn’t wanna. Didn’t turn it on. Likewise, it should be easy to pass over a comment one disagrees with. Find the place that make you feel better and go there, do that.
Peace.
EvilDrPuma @ 150
I meant “who” is to say what constitutes “gossip”? Its all gossip until proven.
http://www.eonline.com/gossip/…..8fe92ca139
Pickles on the move…
Phule @ 156
She’s losing her touch.
EvilDrPuma @
143
There are people on this website who said that the Bush Administration was behind the VA Tech shootings to deflect interest in the Gonzales hearing and no one said shit. I have to get pummeled for this. What a fucking joke.
rwcole @ 157
Yeah, I know the play…but it matters, you know? ‘Cause those daffodils, they don’t understand anything but violence.
SORRY OT: Waxman to consider four subpoena
investigations: Andrew Card – Plame
Condosleezy Rice
Contact between MZM
and the White HOuse
RNC and the Hatch ACt
http://www.oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1262
raven @ 162
I didn’t happen to read those comments. I did happen to read yours. Please excuse my lack of omniscience.
lolo @ 164
Waxman, subpoena Condi? Whodathunkit?
Pangloss was a firm believer in small scale agriculture.
EvilDrPuma @ 130
There was an author by the name of Frank Yerby who was very influential to me. He wrote a number of historical novels from many different eras. His protaganists were often men of their times, yet they often managed to rise above their times. One of his books, concerned the life of Jesus and was titled Judas, My Brother. In it, he attempted to paint Jesus as a man, not a god. But the same folks who get upset at Jesus being depicted as a man, also get extreemly upset when he is depicted as anything other than a middle-European looking WM.
Unless Photochopped, Lou Costello’s jpg image questions the ‘He had no friends. A real loner.” operating assumption of THE gunman.
The fact that his sister is being ignored, while I read a ton of neighbors, etc in USA is…noteworthy.
Dorm roommate of the first fallen female has no idea of any connection to this Manchurain male.
I’ve got questions, too, Lou.
Like I was surprised, but only temporarily after it was announced that guns purchase receipts were found in ‘his’ backpack’. I was gonna faceciously wonder “Where’s the diary?”. Lo and behold, diary of a madman in multimedia.
Fern @ 155
Because you can do something does not mean you should do something. Different way to say the same thing.
re: #56 Cho marine camo
Does anyone know where that photo came from? (NBC package? MySpace Page? Anything?)
I don’t even know what that “ThumbSnap” site is. Free photo hosting? What?
Anything? Anyone?
Waiting, but thinking God help us.
We’ve had enough of these crazy fuckers to study over the years that there’s no excuse for not knowin about everything there is ta know about em- which hasn’t helped a bit in stoppin em- cause- ya know- they’re crazy fuckers.
JANE!!
Personally, seeing the video just gave me some insight into how profoundly disturbed this guy was. For me, it was something I needed to see. Just once. I won’t be watching it again.
It also brought home to me just how incredibly, really, criminally lax gun control laws are in VA and quite frankly, I am amazed that this kid was able to acquire such weapons. I needed to know that, to.
I guess I just felt like it was going to end up on the Net at some point anyway and anybody who gets off on that sort of stuff is going to find it.
As for the families, I guess I’m thinking if it were me, I would not be watching any of the coverage anyway, knowing how the media is. What’s more offensive to me, is the way the reporters swarm around them like vultures (or grief pimps, as you aptly put it, Jane).
I agree, it’s not necessary to keep repeating the video, but I’m not surprised by it.
Blank Kludge @ 169
And I have even gotten to this yet:
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.u…..sp?ID=6409
and before you ‘poopoo’ that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTiONdJJRcw
Guess one can go ta the University and study sickfuckology for ten or twenty years.
You know, Jane, I’ve been a fan of high tech military thrillers forever. I call it pacifist porn. It’s my guilty pleasure, and I feel bad about it, but for a guy it’s just so much fun to blow things up. I once shot a can with a .22 single action rifle, one round. Whoopdedoo. I was 15 years old. Didn’t need any more. And yet, I can still see the attraction. I just grew up and got civilized. It’s still a guy thing, though–stemming from the realization that ‘my penis is small and cannot shoot’.
raven @
83
As a sufferer of night terrors, I can tell you that the image of that guy pointing a gun at the camera truly disturbs me. I sleep with the lights on so when images like that get into my head and take on a life of their own, I don’t panic too much when the terror comes. Some minds absorb this kind of thing better than others. In any case, it was unnecessary to play it over and over again.
People — we must check anyone who says “War!” We are not at war, no matter how many fire fights the boys get into, we are Occupying Iraq, just like any other good little colonizer! The WAR was over when the Iraqi army was defeated Saddam had run, the statues down, and the Bremer boys sitting there saying “We’re in charge!”one, Bush, being a complete idiot, has chosen to occupy a country in which there is No One who wants him which means his Occupation will never succeed.
I think, GSD, Turkey might invade Kurdistan, whereas Bush is too greedy and stupid to cosy up to the Turks and offering them the whole shooting match. It would be difficult for Turkey to invade Kurdistan because both the Kurds and the Turks are quite pally with our Other Colony (Economic Division), Israel.
Surely the US has to defend against a foreign incursion into Kurdistan doesn’t it?
dakine01 @ 168
Yerby sounds interesting, and I do enjoy a well-drawn historical novel; maybe I’ll look up his stuff sometime. Apart from that, though, is just the fact that the media were so ga-ga about a film that was nothing more than a big-budget snuff film. My SIL, for pete’s sake, sat her then-seven-year-old son down to watch the thing! (This is one reason why I don’t thing the remote control is the answer to all our problems…idiots have ‘em.)
portia.vz @ 176
I agree, but with the comment police here I better not say anything else.
Mandrake @ 173
It’s hard for the Republicans or the media to surprise me these days…but they seem to have an unending supply of ways to disgust me.
Lou Costello, have you seen this?
http://cryptogon.com/?p=636
Lou Costello @
147
Edited
And I have even gotten to this yet:
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.u…..sp?ID=6409
nothing surprises me except stuff every frickin’ minute.
please note: uh, I’m sure this theory is totally ‘nuts,’ yes that’s it, ‘nuts.’
lee, I mean ‘cho,’ was a lone gunman. get it? a lone gunman.
OK, I answered part of my question, ThumbSnap is a free photo host.
But who uploaded the pic to ThumbSnap?
And who found it on ThumbSnap?
Flooding across the web now, or what?
Fern @ 155
Thanks to both of you.
I’ve never understood how “editing” has become synonyous with “censorship”.
Well – until the MSM told me they are.
MSM “edits” everything tossed at ‘em: they decide what gets air time.
When viewers criticize their loathsome editorial choices, MSM cries “censorship”.
How do people who confuse the words “criticism” and “censorship” get hired as editors, for jeebus’ sake?
No wonder TV sounds like it’s written by a bunch of dullards.
The dullards were promoted to editor.
EvilDrPuma @ 165
it wasn’t a ‘lack of omniscience’ so much as a ‘lack of manners’ imho…
bobtaco @ 182
I have now ~ THX!
it wasn’t a ‘lack of omniscience’ so much as a ‘lack of manners’ imho…
Let’s drop it, obviously I did something that rubbed this person the wrong way. It’s pointless to carry this any further.
Mabel’s Wig Shack @ 187
And in my opinion, the post I responded to was no better than MSNBC’s coverage. If you don’t like that opinion, tough cheese.
Gunga Djinn @ 185
I first saw it here:
http://www.libertyforum.org/sh…..3&t=-1
EvilDrPuma @
179
He died in the early 90s but e-bay has some of his stuff. Turns out he was a black man which I did not know until I had read about half his works. A lot of his work is set in the old south but also ancient greece, middle ages, spanish main, and some conteporary.
I’ve always enjoyed historical novels, especially when it is obvious the author has researched the period and attempted to be historically accurate. Yerby seemed to do that well.
I am posting in a flurry having just come in.
There seems to have been an awful lot of emotional posting here.
Censorship is official and statutory,and i think that is not what as lot of folk are talking about.
Standards of acceptability seem to be what we are talking about, and what we are prepared to watch and to what we are inured have been under attack ever since live, color, unchecked, pictures came to us from Viet Nam. We now happily let seven- to twelve-year-old play the most realistic and horrific video games.
What do we expect? Probably, without re-imposing “standards of acceptability” we are going to go on down until we are back to live executions, and we shall all be off to the Colisseum of a Friday night to watch live snuffing.
Plus or minus 100 Americans die by gun EVERY DAY!!! There were about 150 United States-induced deaths in Baghdad alone the day of V Tech. There were about 300 yesterday.
Some of these posts strike me as just so much breast-beating and joining-in the media frenzy.
Lou Costello @ 187
I’m finding the conspiracy theories a little wearing – and profoundly improbable.
does tinhattery count as p0rn? :)
And in my opinion, the post I responded to was no better than MSNBC’s coverage. If you don’t like that opinion, tough cheese.
You’re a tough hombre on a blog aren’t you.
Jeebus, EDP, you’re one angry pup.
C’ya.
tw3k @
195
I guess that depends on where you wear it.
rwcole @
172
Actually this seems pretty kneejerk to me. Cause each, as you say, crazy fucker, er, disturbed person, *is* a little different.
To wit, this was a guy who did not express himself by “standard” means, yet his parting shot was a multimedia capsule of metaphor after metaphor of impressions, of what it felt like to be him.
It makes me sick that people are meeting blind rage with little else but blind rage — all the while missing key components of what we *can* do to (re)habilitate people like him, making us all safer.
Like, ya know, autistic people. Like autistic immigrant people. Like autistic immigrant people with abuse issues. and if ya really want to go for broke, sensitive males — ooo
Cause it’s Teh Stoopid to keep conceptualizing situations like this as another War.
Another us against them. That, imho, is what’s pathetic.
but hey, I’m just another MH prof whose been in the trenches and thinks the “profilers” who were interviewed to comment on the vids were absolute heterosexist nincompoops when it comes to people with disabilities. Command, control and cookie cutter. Remember that.
twolf1 @ 197
707!!!
hi fern and bearpaw…hope my 186 has snark clearly directed at msm
(and not your most estimable selves..)
Fern @ 194
I’m finding the conspiracy theories a little wearing – and profoundly improbable.
I do too, but if I gave you a recap of the last 6 years in 1999, I bet you would say that it was a “profoundly improbable” scenario also.
twolf1 @ 198
lol, i asked for that one.
kirk murphy @ 200
Understood as intended!
jane — forgive me if
someone else already said
this — but as i said on the
last thread on this — i must
note the irony here, entirely
unintended by n.b.c., of course:
for years — literally years — many
here, and elsewhere, fought for access
to photos of iraq war soldiers, being
brought home in flag-draped coffins,
as a pointant, and silently eloquent,
reminder of the tragic, and growing,
human cost of our misadventure in the
gulf, part ii. . .
n.b.c. did not fight very hard for access,
nor did most MSM sources. . . fox said it
would not air them under any circumstance. . .
[yet fox was wall-to-wall with the rest in
airing this distirbed, sad killer’s awful visage. . .]
of course, as to the coffins from the gulf,
thememoryhole.org broke it all loose. . .
and, i believe we are all in its debt, for
the ongoing impact those public domain images
have had in shaping and informing the debate
on the lunacy of our continued presence in
the gulf. . .
okay — enough irony for today. . .
back to the thread on golden-oldies. . .
I tried to post something here that may have tripped the troll-filters and never appeared, but it was all legitimate and in keeping with the spirit of this site. It was, I believe, a useful point.
Sorry–it has appeared @ 176. Sorry for the alarmism.
VJB @ 207
This will trigger the filter everytime: P0RN (use a zero)
bobtaco @ 201
I do too, but if I gave you a recap of the last 6 years in 1999, I bet you would say that it was a “profoundly improbable” scenario also.
Actually, I have found the developments of the last six years surprisingly … unsurprising. It helps to look in from outside and not buy into the mythologized America.
How about showing some random acts of violence over in Iraq for 24/7? Anyone object to that? Personally, I’d be as releived as could be if the networks devoted a fraction of the time they’ve spent exploiting this tragedy on our shores on the festering, roiling hell that is Iraq, in one day in the life of an Iraqi citizen. Perhaps we’d get some appropriate American hand-wringing for that tragedy for once.
Nah, forgot, it’s just a video game in a fictional land until it happens to us.
I don’t want to be infantilized by the news media any more than I already am, thanks. I found the constant portrayals of grieving family members a lot more disturbing than the pix of the guy or details about him. I want to know about who’s responsible for violence, thanks.
You show someone’s face on TV and that’s glorifying him? It’s a picture. Freaking out about it is adding to the hype and histrionics.
Worse was Krauthammer’s stupid WaPo piece about not using this tragedy for political ends to change gun laws bla blah (which, of course itself exploited this tragedy for political ends so he could pimp anti-gun control for the NRA). Creep.
that last kink crypto?? is worth a look.
Mailed bt first and second events. Desription of first perp not the same as ‘THE gunman’.
Vid mailed bt incidents? Why NBC and not FOX? Fox would raise more ?? than ‘liberal’ NBC.
…and as has been pointed out, why not just upload it to the net – YouTube, etc. Or a just leave it where the gun receipts, etc?
It could very well be the MSM story is true. But, there are holes. And, the 48 hr delay for Gonzo included the Blackberry blackout.
just sayin’….
edit: a ‘person of interest’ was interviewed and that is all we know. not brought in, charged, etc.
It was claimed Cho may have had an e-key accessing campus wide buildings. How? Why?
A ’source’ claimed there was intell input about these details. I suppose that’s to be expected, but….
quick turnaround on forensics placed at least one gun with both events. What about other forensics?
Dept. of Irony: Fear and Violent Horror Were the Subjects of the English Class [Excerpt from NYTimes Article “Student anger on display in his writings”]
“Ross Alameddine sat a few feet from Mr. Cho for months in a class examining contemporary horror films and literature. Both students were required to keep what were known as “fear journals,” where they chronicled both their reaction to the material covered in class and their own fears.
Mr. Alameddine, according to classmates, made an effort to speak to Mr. Cho on several occasions, trying to draw him out of his closed world and his refusal to interact with other students.
On Monday, Mr. Cho shot and killed Mr. Alameddine.
There is no evidence to suggest that Mr. Cho targeted his classmate, but it is the first time one of the victims has been connected to Mr. Cho before the shootings.
The class they took together was new, offered for the first time last fall. The students studied movies like ‘Friday the 13th’ and read Stephen King, H. P. Lovecraft and Patricia Cornwell novels. ‘We had a whole discussion on serial killers,’ said one student, who asked that she not be named because she wanted to avoid a crush of attention from the news media.
Mr. Cho never spoke during the discussion, she said, but he took notes.”
Badwater @
68
Last night, Bravo* (in their excellent timing and ratings-hound widsom) replayed “Bowling for Columbine”. I watched and saw a video excerpt from security cameras showing Eric and Dylan storming into the library – and the audio was 911 calls that mentioned NBC and MSNBC NEWS.
I thought. aha. That’s why they got the scoop.
* Bravo is a division of NBC/Universal
TeddySanFran @
72
When I saw this all I could think was “this decision has Dan Abrams written all over it.”
I don’t know…with all due respect to the families of the victims (and I include Cho’s family here as well)…maybe it wasn’t such a bad thing for people to see that, though he may have been mentally ill, Cho was also a mean little f*cker. Why else would someone go on such a rampage?
This fine spring day seems to bring new friends to the Lake.
Welcome!
And so many strongly support MSNBC’s murder meltdown.
Odd to find so many people strongly defending MSM here…..
Hmm.
I’m sure it’s merely a random fluctuation.
the “nooz” has had a chance to wring blood from a stone for the last several days. have any of the newsies cried about the dirty laundry?
this is the most sickening thing I have seen this week. how many hundreds died in iraq? pretty much all assassinated, but much larger caliber bullets and explosives, beheadings.
but for those bastions of the 5th estate, nothing comes close to the lingering death of a cheerleader here, a professor there, a hero, a tragedy. off the microphone you hear; “tired as hell of hearing anna nicole this and that, now we got something great” this death march will go on for ever if they can figure out how.
joke of the future;
“why is the news so violent?” “because that’s what they pay for”
it used to be the other way around.
Speaking of MSM brilliance. Alex, I’ll take furrin surnames for $1000….
Caught this gaffe when the dorm room name tag was shown (”Joseph and Seung-Hui”) and when they id’d his sis (S. Cho). Nice catch, (finally) MSNBC. Pulaski Co. officials, not so much.
“The gunman’s name was given as Cho Seung-Hui by police earlier this week, with the surname first, as is common among many Korean families, but the Cho family statement rendered his name as Seung-Hui Cho, with the surname last in the American fashion. NBC News and MSNBC.com are adopting that rendering.”
VJB @ 207
FWIW, I believe the reason your comment got stuck in the filters was the last sentence. Better to use * liberally when posting words that spam-filters are on the lookout for, e.g., “P*nis” and “P*rn”.
Tlazolteotl @
216
imho, the verdict is still out on how much of this is “him” and how much of this is him mirroring back what the world looked like to him, or what a “tough guy, that no one would mess with” should look like.
one characteristic of autism (that is extreme in autistics but shows up more like a filtered “monkey see monkey do” in most others) is echolalia — high functioning autistics describe themselves as acting like a “recorder”
when it comes to trying to speak.
If you ever take a gander at the vids again,
do it this time as if you are *him*, looking at the world.
Think of him as a kid, with very little filtering, on playback.
Now are you getting a (more complete) picture?
Natural Born Killers was an antiviolence film. The violence was stylized in strange and interesting ways, but this did not make it alluring. It was set up so that viewers always got to know the victims, even for a few seconds, as ordinary, real people. The net effect was antiviolence. The proof, for me, was in the reaction of the friend I went to see it with. A fan of Rambo-style blow them all away cinematic violence, he left NBK disturbed and upset.
I come from the TV industry. Twenty plus years of it… and I can tell you that there was only one consideration on NBC’s mind once it received those materials from the killer. Ratings! The proof of that lies in the way they waited until the 630pm Nightly Newscast to air them. Doing so gave them a huge opportunity to serve themselves in at least three key financial ways.
First of all they new that with the hype all afternoon, that they would get a huge ratings boost for the NBC Nightly News (outside of their Primetime programs, the next biggest money maker for the network), second by first exposing the materials on their Nighly News they could then pass the videos on to their sister network, MSNBC, and play them to death all night long to give that network a shot in the arm. Thirdly, the network not only competes for ratings which turn into instant cash, it also competes for strong local television station affiliates in every market in the U.S. Holding this material until the evening network news helped every local affiliate gain ratings and a stronger audience lead into their access (7-8pm) local programs The NBC network wins, the MSNBC cable network wins, and NBC’s local affiliates win. None of that would have been true by first airing the killers videos at any other time.
If NBC was truly just interested in delivering important news to the public, it would have delivered it earlier, and would have shared it with the other major networks to do so at the same time. NBC wanted the exclusive, and waited until it would generate the most revenue.
It’s not about journalism, it’s about the ratings race, and the millions they generate.
Gullible, Mind Controlled, Amerigeeks fooled again.
I don’t really care what NBC’s motives were for showing the video of the killer. I doubt they were wholesome. But, I think the net result is good. This killer is “Mr. America” even if he wasn’t a citizen. America should look in the mirror and take full appraisal of what we are becoming–torturers, rage addicts, gun lusting macho men. Listen to the hate-masturbators in the rightwing media. Watch the movies that glorify disconnected violence. Play the video games of remorseless killing. This is what we have become. This is the rightwing manifestation of maleness carried to its logical conclusion by a psychotic young man.
It’s better to look at the truth even if it very painful. Where are the real American men who will stand up for civil society?