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	<title>Comments on: The Ugly Face of Union-Busting</title>
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		<title>By: DaveA</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/19/the-ugly-face-of-union-busting/#comment-637382</link>
		<dc:creator>DaveA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Apr 2007 09:06:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/19/the-ugly-face-of-union-busting/#comment-637382</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It should be easy to take care of union organizer turncoats. Before you hire any organizer make them sign a contract with a non-compete and disclosure clause with heavy financial penalties if they violet the contract. The problem then should them be closed. This is what biz does all the time.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It should be easy to take care of union organizer turncoats. Before you hire any organizer make them sign a contract with a non-compete and disclosure clause with heavy financial penalties if they violet the contract. The problem then should them be closed. This is what biz does all the time.</p>
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		<title>By: HeyLady</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/19/the-ugly-face-of-union-busting/#comment-635895</link>
		<dc:creator>HeyLady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 20:54:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/19/the-ugly-face-of-union-busting/#comment-635895</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;How do you fight the anti-union rhetoric?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;When anti-union people complain about bullshit they have to put up with, that I never do, I tell them, I don’t want to hear your complaints. Really. I don’t put up with that crap, because I have a union. Want rid of that problem, get a union. Otherwise, you want them to do that to you.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Good answer.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How do you fight the anti-union rhetoric?</p>
<p>When anti-union people complain about bullshit they have to put up with, that I never do, I tell them, I don’t want to hear your complaints. Really. I don’t put up with that crap, because I have a union. Want rid of that problem, get a union. Otherwise, you want them to do that to you.</p>
<p>Good answer.</p>
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		<title>By: Maddy</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/19/the-ugly-face-of-union-busting/#comment-635626</link>
		<dc:creator>Maddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 20:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/19/the-ugly-face-of-union-busting/#comment-635626</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I might clean up my above comment-I didn’t mean to imply that all unions are corrupt what I meant was   even if they were I would rather have them than none where you are at the mercy of the owners with no union. Good point &lt;a href=&quot;mailto:LindaR@69&quot;&gt;LindaR@69&lt;/a&gt;, my thought exactly if the wealth is spread everybody benefits.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I might clean up my above comment-I didn’t mean to imply that all unions are corrupt what I meant was   even if they were I would rather have them than none where you are at the mercy of the owners with no union. Good point <a href="mailto:LindaR@69">LindaR@69</a>, my thought exactly if the wealth is spread everybody benefits.</p>
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		<title>By: AnonymousDog</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/19/the-ugly-face-of-union-busting/#comment-635601</link>
		<dc:creator>AnonymousDog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 20:14:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/19/the-ugly-face-of-union-busting/#comment-635601</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-634948&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;punaise @&lt;br /&gt;
                61              &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-634905&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;landofthefree @ 50&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
…we all settled on high-deductible health care insurance coupled with Health Savings Accounts… This made the insurance premiums &lt;em&gt;somewhat&lt;/em&gt; affordable, but it’s a big overhead item.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;While I respect what &lt;b&gt;you&lt;/b&gt; have done in this instance (and fear HSAs are one of the few viable options small businesses have left with regard to health care benefits), HSAs are a serious regression from traditional broad-coverage insurance, and, yes, the underlying imbalances in the insurance and medical industries inextricably underlie the whole problem.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;HSAs are a stop-gap, time-buying measure that perversely fits into the mindset of those who blame the victim; HSAs are, in part, promoted based on the rhetoric that giving the employee “choice” about how to spend medical funds injects competition into the medical services market.  This implicitly blames the average working American for having “expected too much”, “growing soft”, or in some way “overindulging” in unnecessary medical care.  It’s just like the “Welfare Queens” argument that is used to batter welfare programs.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What HSAs &lt;b&gt;really&lt;/b&gt; do is dramatically restrict the employees health care choices by forcing him or her to obtain most services from a relatively small pool of money (the HSA) and leaves him or her totally on his/her own if expenses grow beyond what the HSA holds (until the high deductible insurance kicks in — or the insurance company finds a way not to pay).  It takes a healthy person years to save enough in an HSA to fill the gap between HSA funds and high deductibles — I’m a healthy 30-smthg male, and I’ve never been able to accumulate more than half what I’d need to fill that gap.  What HSAs do is &lt;b&gt;prevent&lt;/b&gt; those not in the ownership class from actually &lt;b&gt;getting&lt;/b&gt; anything but the most rudimentary healthcare.  That kind of “competition” would further focus the medical industry on services for the wealthy (e.g., cosmetic services) and shape the industry &lt;b&gt;that way&lt;/b&gt; which does &lt;b&gt;not&lt;/b&gt; create the overall cost savings promised in HSA rhetoric.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;HSAs mostly serve to keep the need to provide benefits from absolutely bleeding dry our small business infrastructure; they buy the politicians time to continue to ignore the underlying problems of an out-of-control insurance industry, ever widening economic disparity and inequity, and a medical industry focused on profit instead of care.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-634948"><em>punaise @<br />
                61              </em></a></p>
<blockquote><p><a href="#comment-634905"><em>landofthefree @ 50</em></a><br />
…we all settled on high-deductible health care insurance coupled with Health Savings Accounts… This made the insurance premiums <em>somewhat</em> affordable, but it’s a big overhead item.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>While I respect what <b>you</b> have done in this instance (and fear HSAs are one of the few viable options small businesses have left with regard to health care benefits), HSAs are a serious regression from traditional broad-coverage insurance, and, yes, the underlying imbalances in the insurance and medical industries inextricably underlie the whole problem.</p>
<p>HSAs are a stop-gap, time-buying measure that perversely fits into the mindset of those who blame the victim; HSAs are, in part, promoted based on the rhetoric that giving the employee “choice” about how to spend medical funds injects competition into the medical services market.  This implicitly blames the average working American for having “expected too much”, “growing soft”, or in some way “overindulging” in unnecessary medical care.  It’s just like the “Welfare Queens” argument that is used to batter welfare programs.</p>
<p>What HSAs <b>really</b> do is dramatically restrict the employees health care choices by forcing him or her to obtain most services from a relatively small pool of money (the HSA) and leaves him or her totally on his/her own if expenses grow beyond what the HSA holds (until the high deductible insurance kicks in — or the insurance company finds a way not to pay).  It takes a healthy person years to save enough in an HSA to fill the gap between HSA funds and high deductibles — I’m a healthy 30-smthg male, and I’ve never been able to accumulate more than half what I’d need to fill that gap.  What HSAs do is <b>prevent</b> those not in the ownership class from actually <b>getting</b> anything but the most rudimentary healthcare.  That kind of “competition” would further focus the medical industry on services for the wealthy (e.g., cosmetic services) and shape the industry <b>that way</b> which does <b>not</b> create the overall cost savings promised in HSA rhetoric.</p>
<p>HSAs mostly serve to keep the need to provide benefits from absolutely bleeding dry our small business infrastructure; they buy the politicians time to continue to ignore the underlying problems of an out-of-control insurance industry, ever widening economic disparity and inequity, and a medical industry focused on profit instead of care.</p>
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		<title>By: LindaR</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/19/the-ugly-face-of-union-busting/#comment-635104</link>
		<dc:creator>LindaR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 19:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/19/the-ugly-face-of-union-busting/#comment-635104</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I would like a new paradigm to incorporate this idea:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Workers are not an expense item.  Workers are &lt;i&gt;the very fuel&lt;/i&gt; that drives the engine of capitalism.  When workers have money to spend, capitalism thrives.  When the workers are starved of discretionary spending money, recessions happen.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This is why the influence of corporations need to be driven out of government — the people making the laws have been blinded by the “supply-siders” as to how economies truly work.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like a new paradigm to incorporate this idea:</p>
<p>Workers are not an expense item.  Workers are <i>the very fuel</i> that drives the engine of capitalism.  When workers have money to spend, capitalism thrives.  When the workers are starved of discretionary spending money, recessions happen.</p>
<p>This is why the influence of corporations need to be driven out of government — the people making the laws have been blinded by the “supply-siders” as to how economies truly work.</p>
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		<title>By: LindaR</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/19/the-ugly-face-of-union-busting/#comment-635054</link>
		<dc:creator>LindaR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 19:00:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/19/the-ugly-face-of-union-busting/#comment-635054</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Sorry, I was called away.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I actually would rather a lot of “unskilled” workers be paid $80K for whatever than the unregulated capitalism we have now where a relatively few CEOs make hundreds of millions for going to lunch and conspiring to rob the national treasury.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;What I meant about challenging the underlying assumptions is, we have to rethink the notion that it is a good thing for workers to be paid as little as possible.  We workers have even incorporated that underlying assumption to a great extent — that’s how you get statements like “makes $80K for doing nothing” out of the mouths of non-CEOs.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If we think organically, it’s obvious that the more money &lt;em&gt;everybody&lt;/em&gt; makes the better it is for &lt;i&gt;everybody&lt;/i&gt;.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It isn’t a stretch to say that the VTech shootings would likely not have happened if we had a generally better-paid society.  St. Reagan started starving mental health services when he was Gov. of California and shut down the mental hospitals and literally put mentally ill people on the streets.  It was only a part of the starve-the-government philosophy, but when he became president he brought it with him.  How might things have been different if that sick young man had been hospitalized and treated properly when his problems were obvious to so many people?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The idea behind starving the government is the same idea behind starving the people of decent wages — it is a pro-aristocratic, antidemocratic world view.  It’s ugly.  It’s everything the Enlightenment and the American Revolution repudiated.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, I was called away.</p>
<p>I actually would rather a lot of “unskilled” workers be paid $80K for whatever than the unregulated capitalism we have now where a relatively few CEOs make hundreds of millions for going to lunch and conspiring to rob the national treasury.</p>
<p>What I meant about challenging the underlying assumptions is, we have to rethink the notion that it is a good thing for workers to be paid as little as possible.  We workers have even incorporated that underlying assumption to a great extent — that’s how you get statements like “makes $80K for doing nothing” out of the mouths of non-CEOs.</p>
<p>If we think organically, it’s obvious that the more money <em>everybody</em> makes the better it is for <i>everybody</i>.  </p>
<p>It isn’t a stretch to say that the VTech shootings would likely not have happened if we had a generally better-paid society.  St. Reagan started starving mental health services when he was Gov. of California and shut down the mental hospitals and literally put mentally ill people on the streets.  It was only a part of the starve-the-government philosophy, but when he became president he brought it with him.  How might things have been different if that sick young man had been hospitalized and treated properly when his problems were obvious to so many people?</p>
<p>The idea behind starving the government is the same idea behind starving the people of decent wages — it is a pro-aristocratic, antidemocratic world view.  It’s ugly.  It’s everything the Enlightenment and the American Revolution repudiated.</p>
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		<title>By: punaise</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/19/the-ugly-face-of-union-busting/#comment-635030</link>
		<dc:creator>punaise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:56:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/19/the-ugly-face-of-union-busting/#comment-635030</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-635006&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;Bustednuckles @ 66&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Dayum punaise, you need a mechanic?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;*G*&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;don’t a have fleet of office vehicles just yet, but you’ll be the first to know! &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;the biggest challenge? keeping the owner’s time billable (*ahem*)….  :~)&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-635006"><em>Bustednuckles @ 66</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>Dayum punaise, you need a mechanic?</p>
<p>*G*</p>
</blockquote>
<p>don’t a have fleet of office vehicles just yet, but you’ll be the first to know! </p>
<p>the biggest challenge? keeping the owner’s time billable (*ahem*)….  :~)</p>
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		<title>By: Bustednuckles</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/19/the-ugly-face-of-union-busting/#comment-635006</link>
		<dc:creator>Bustednuckles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:51:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/19/the-ugly-face-of-union-busting/#comment-635006</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Dayum punaise, you need a mechanic?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;*G*&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dayum punaise, you need a mechanic?</p>
<p>*G*</p>
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		<title>By: landofthefree</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/19/the-ugly-face-of-union-busting/#comment-634988</link>
		<dc:creator>landofthefree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/19/the-ugly-face-of-union-busting/#comment-634988</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-634948&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;punaise @ 61&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;
I recently recruited two new employees (potential future partners) coming from larger firms with full benefits packages. In addition to the very competitive hourly rates and low-stress work environment (work a little, blog a little?), I want/need to provide something comparable in health care and other benefits: vison, dental, PTO, flex time, 401(k), etc. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Had to jump through a lot of hoops to set up a small group heath care plan, because of a significant pre-existing condition for one of the employees. Not to stray too far off-topic, but we all settled on high-deductible health care insurance coupled with Health Savings Accounts (not ‘use it or lose it” like Flexible Spending Accounts). This made the insurance premiums &lt;em&gt;somewhat&lt;/em&gt; affordable, but it’s a big overhead item.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Wow - that is amazing that you’re able to do all of that for your employees. Fantastic job.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-634948"><em>punaise @ 61</em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>
I recently recruited two new employees (potential future partners) coming from larger firms with full benefits packages. In addition to the very competitive hourly rates and low-stress work environment (work a little, blog a little?), I want/need to provide something comparable in health care and other benefits: vison, dental, PTO, flex time, 401(k), etc. </p>
<p>Had to jump through a lot of hoops to set up a small group heath care plan, because of a significant pre-existing condition for one of the employees. Not to stray too far off-topic, but we all settled on high-deductible health care insurance coupled with Health Savings Accounts (not ‘use it or lose it” like Flexible Spending Accounts). This made the insurance premiums <em>somewhat</em> affordable, but it’s a big overhead item.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Wow &#8211; that is amazing that you’re able to do all of that for your employees. Fantastic job.</p>
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		<title>By: Tula Connell</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2007/04/19/the-ugly-face-of-union-busting/#comment-634983</link>
		<dc:creator>Tula Connell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/04/19/the-ugly-face-of-union-busting/#comment-634983</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-634895&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;newspaperbrat @ 48 &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;((((((((((TULA!))))))))))&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Excellent post! &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The late great Saul Alinsky is spinning in his grave. ;~(&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hey, thanks! I know it’s a busy Gonzo time for everyone, so appreciate you all reading this and taking a minute to comment.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-634895"><em>newspaperbrat @ 48 </em></a></p>
<blockquote><p>((((((((((TULA!))))))))))</p>
<p>Excellent post! </p>
<p>The late great Saul Alinsky is spinning in his grave. ;~(</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Hey, thanks! I know it’s a busy Gonzo time for everyone, so appreciate you all reading this and taking a minute to comment.</p>
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